📚marathon-lore-discussion

[robust vale]

With the Predictive Framework and all the purple salvage about biological memory responses and such

[twin trout]

or the paradox circuit :3

[latent python]

Do you think the next raid will be about the pure love between Durandal and Tycho

[silk whale]

It's very "hindsight through rose tinted glasses" to criticize this game's lore for being delivered through many small pieces when the lore of the original trilogy was delivered in many small bites through the terminals, many of which were optional, secret, off the beaten path, etc.

[robust vale]

No Bungie tends to save the homosexuality for year two and on

[latent python]

Okay so you think it'll just be pining then

[robust vale]

We won’t be seeing Durandal/Tycho Hate Yaoi until year 2

[bronze robin]

I need my yearning now

[jagged rose]

We already know TCIV has the ability to basically grant random things sentience or rapidly evolves them into human-killing machines

[pliant elm]

You literally have a compiler, one of the weakest mobs in the lore as a 'boss', with zero explanation what so ever rather than the 'It looks cool for the art designer' because that all the writter looked at was the artwork screenshots from the loading screens without even undrstanding what it was.

[twin trout]

the dr we follow the footseps of in the NuCal priority contracts is heavily implied to be in a lesbian relationship :3

[latent python]

Song?

[bronze robin]

has anyone else noticed that claymores are kinda... yappy?

[robust vale]

Oh shit fr? I haven’t finished the level 10 set I think

[twin trout]

yea her :3

[pliant elm]

Its actually such a bad writting that I even laugh how the S'pht were enslaved in the first place, and the fact that they are even attacking you, or in thr Marathon is quite frankly hilarious.

[steep dune]

aren't the runners canonically weaker than the original MC?

[robust vale]

They’re speeding up

[jagged rose]

Good thing, too.

[sage lark]

im telling you dont bother

[robust vale]

I don’t think the claymore are speaking

[pliant elm]

Just gets to prove how nobody actually even read the most of the basics of thr story.

[west linden]

mjolnir was basically a god lmao

[robust vale]

It’s probably not a portal turrets situation

[steep dune]

word

[bronze robin]

I had a thought that like all the tech has a built in ai or something

[jagged rose]

Yeah, the writting is mid. But the writing is amazing!

[bronze robin]

oh hmm

[robust vale]

Nah not all of it

A ton, but not all

[latent python]

How sad would claymore AI be

[bronze robin]

like the data cards make a whimper noise when you use them, sometimes.

[pliant elm]

Cannonically weaker to what? A literal human technician on board could kill one with a magnum in four shots.

[twin trout]

claymore rampancy when

[steep dune]

only mid imo so far is the writing for gantry/mida and some of arachne. generally the whole story is pretty solid sci-fi

[austere elk]

RUNNAH

[bronze robin]

if the claymores start baiting us into them...

[austere elk]

HIT THE GRIDDY ON A UESC SUPPLY CRATE AND UPLOAD IT TO CY-TOK

[west linden]

it could be fun, you get to blow up with joy

[bronze robin]

"are you still there?"

[edgy sleet]

mfw
a supersoldier whos name is ***Mjolnir ***Recon 54 a dead guy which we put so much fent , drugs and computer shi to make him a living weapon that can kill a entire platoonhe wanted to
vs
a iron alien gooper whos like glop dlorp hehhe hiii

[twin trout]

oh I'll make you explode alright 😼

[faint ingot]

Question: do runner shells need oxygen?

[robust vale]

RUNNAH TAG THIS CLIP “SHADOW RUNNER MONEY GANG” AN SEND IT TO THE UESC

[latent python]

Great question

[twin trout]

don't interact with theeeeeeem they thrive off of attention

[pliant elm]

A BoB can kill a compiler alone. Wtf are talking about lmao. You guys are clueless.

[twin trout]

it's a shame we have to do what their parents failed to do

alas

[faint ingot]

Hmmm

[edgy sleet]

shhhhhh imma skin this guy trust

[edgy sleet]

proof?

someone factcheck this guy

[bronze robin]

in all the cinematics, workers are wearing full suits and helmets. Runners aren't

[edgy sleet]

[pliant elm]

Play the game?

[edgy sleet]

ehhh i dont wanna

[bronze robin]

so I think they don't need the same oxygen as like, normal humans or something

[edgy sleet]

just show proof man

[bronze robin]

wait, are there normal humans that MADE it to tau ceti 4?

[twin trout]

all of the colonists

[latent python]

The original colonists were human

[thick junco]

Compiler in marathon classic takes 5 magnum shots to go down. I do hope there's some lore progression about what makes the cryo archive compiler so toufh

[sage lark]

the original colonists besides that no

[jagged rose]

Some of the biggest wigs were put into Cryo for the entire duration

[twin trout]

a fair few uesc security folks

aboard the marathon I mean

[dusty relic]

whats all this about a secret cryo

is there really a second secet cryo archive

[pliant elm]

I don't need to prove anything that you dont even know the basics or what a Bob is.

[steep dune]

Durandal gave them test

[bronze robin]

but at this point there is no one.. besides the runners.. and UESC bots... alive on TCIV?

that we know of

[pliant elm]

👆 👆

[craggy finch]

S’pht’Kr are pretty badass since they weren’t enslaved, a liberated S’pht with 100 years of freedom would definitely upgrade itself

It’s no longer bound to the Pfhor

[robust vale]

No, as far as we can tell, there’s no living humans in human bodies in system

[jagged rose]

Well, the big wigs actually were woken up from time to time to check in with how the journey was going

[twin trout]

not to mention old marathon was a boomer shooter so enemy balance was different back then

[austere elk]

it mined enough crypto with the uesc bot processors to buy itself upgrades, you'd know this is you were a true lore-head

[robust vale]

There might be some on the corpo shifts but we don’t know

[bronze robin]

I wonder if there's humans on the UESC ship that all the bots are coming from

[edgy sleet]

Born on board i feel like you didnt know that twin

[austere elk]

what?

[silk whale]

Yeah it being different doesn't break the the lore or anything crazy, it's fine, right?

[edgy sleet]

your skeeting on tin ice twin

[craggy finch]

Eh, if Pfhor turned up i don’t think every individual enemy type from OG would be Cryo boss level

[steep dune]

this is canon until disproven

[robust vale]

Orion’s lieutenants are runners and I don’t think he’s biological either

[bronze robin]

the UESC drop ships have to be coming from something and I don't think its just Outpost

[thick junco]

Is it free? This one's in a vault? Is it still a slave?/being controlled. I mean it's mysterious on purpose I'm sure. The whole series is pretty oblique

[robust vale]

Besides that no humans

[bronze robin]

ohhhh

[earnest hatch]

There’s implications. But one thing is obvious: this isn’t the same type of compiler as what we saw in the original games.

[jagged rose]

Durandal gave the S'pht five original recipe Four Lokos

[austere elk]

the UESC force presence is almost entirely robotic, but yeah anyone of note is a runner.

[pliant elm]

S'pht were so ridiculously weak that even thr Pfhor had to attach weapons to it so it would actually do something useful as a slave, and even then it was pathetically weak. This lore is just garbo from someone who understands zero of what he is writting of.

[robust vale]

The Equanamity might have humans on it

But it’s not here yet

[craggy finch]

It’s not with the Pfhor, they would be shackled to some kind of slavemaster nearby

[bronze robin]

that's the UESC ship?

[twin trout]

maybe nyot but they could still be stronger than they were to communicate why the marathon lost so hard, the boomer shooter doesn't really communicate that as well considering you are 1 guy who rips through entire hordes of them with normal guns

[bronze robin]

just thinking to myself.. the bots can't be dropping from the Marathon right, its dead in space, they have to be coming from somewhere else.. hmm

[craggy finch]

Lost Network Packets has it explained that the security staff were too soft and underprepared, but you still have MADDs to help you out sometimes

[jagged rose]

Also the Security Officer was probably roided up with jjaro tech tbh

[craggy finch]

And they’re just gun turrets

[robust vale]

Oh also the Marathon Figurines in Cryo have the missing chunk of the ship missing from them LMAO

Fun fact for you

Probably an oversight but it’s funny

[bronze robin]

wait there's a missing chunk?

[austere elk]

yes the UESC sent another ship, if I'm remembering right they figured out a faster method of space travel but having humans in it was pretty bad so it's bots and brains in server racks

[craggy finch]

Also BoBs are scrubs with .44 pistols and can at least kill a few lower level Pfhor

[robust vale]

Yeah you ever look at the Cryo select screen and see the hole in the ship?

Near the front

[bronze robin]

brb

[earnest hatch]

That’s because Bobs have the advanced technology of “hitscan weapons”.

[latent python]

But could Superman kill Batman

[dense delta]

Since when are people taking GAMEPLAY for lore anyway? These two things often do not cross over lol

[pliant elm]

You cant touch the power level of entities just 'because', as you will ruin the entire lore logic of attacker and defender. Thats just weak, weak writing. It just proves the writer has no clue about the universe.

Its not an easy job to pickup after years in the closet IP, or if it was rven a decision from the game director. But atlest do some basic consultation.

Nontheless the lore is garbo and quite pointless actually.

[craggy finch]

Because Bungie made an effort to tie them together

[bronze robin]

the front of the moon part?

[craggy finch]

They went through the trouble of having your HUD be a helmet UI in the 90s

[long kernel]

Because usually bungie has some level of consistency between the two, or a rationalization for the inconsistency

[bronze robin]

I wonder where those moon pieces are

if they crashed into the planet

[robust vale]

Near the front of the ship itself

[edgy sleet]

"S'pht weak"

Strongest lore hater/ Game hater
vs
Weakest Marathon lore/game lover
"it looks cool and throughfor i think it makes sense our shells are basiclly baby than the MC from the first game whos a drug filled homeless man whos cools"

[robust vale]

Used for material en route to TC4 I believe

Construction materials

[bronze robin]

ohhh

[robust vale]

To the left of the “UESC” marking

[austere elk]

the green rods are made of materials from the Deimos

[craggy finch]

Like they bothered to have an in story reason for why you run 100 meter sprint speed as a default and can maul aliens with your bare fists with the entire Mjolnir cyborg twist

[bronze robin]

imagine a map with Marathon ship debris falling down on us lmao

[latent python]

Deimosite rods!

[bronze robin]

OH I SEE that chunk

okay yeah

[silk whale]

People are trippin' talking like M2 BoBs are "scrubs," they are trained up, they have gear, maybe cybernetic enhancements. Like BoBs are cool, don't hate on my boys

[latent python]

Is Blake your boy

[bronze robin]

"they're everywhere!"

[edgy sleet]

i feel like fox is not understanding that sometimes bungie can do whatever they want to the lore and i dont care because im a 1# glazer

[craggy finch]

They’re the best but face it, they were kidnapped colonists conscripted by Durandal and given weak weapons in a fight for survival

[bronze robin]

gosh the sound effects of the original games are still stuck inside my head

[craggy finch]

At least in terminal and chapter art they have some better weapons

[pliant elm]

Yeah, they might have all the cybernetics in the world, but they are still using a literal .44 magnum pistol. You can have all cybernetic strenght in the world but your bullets are the same.

[bronze robin]

so anyway

[craggy finch]

the advantage SO has was his strength and speed, but the equipment was just regular military stuff

Runners could probably take on Pfhor

[long kernel]

I do think the cryo compiler was also built different

[craggy finch]

This compiler is an outlier

[pliant elm]

👆

[jagged rose]

Those same bullets absolutely fuck up a Phor heavy unit

[bronze robin]

Taken Compiler

[robust vale]

Compiler’s been in a 200 year bulk period

[bronze robin]

have you seen those shoulders??

[long kernel]

He’s been juicing off of the coolant fluid

[bronze robin]

like damn

[latent python]

Also that fight is rad

[pliant elm]

Yeah, the Pfhor arent phsically strong either, they just had more resources.

[bronze robin]

probably eating the cows

[latent python]

Drinking tick milk

[pliant elm]

Ahaha.

[craggy finch]

On Total Carnage it still takes an entire assault rifle magazine to kill a Hunter

Runner guns would face a similar challenge

[pliant elm]

Compiler been bulking for 200 years, lifting DNA samples.

[craggy finch]

But it’s not like every OG Marathon enemy is immune to bullets

[bronze robin]

honestly I hope they add Pfhor to the game so we get like Bot drops AND sometimes Pfhor drops, and its like a completely different kind of fight

[pliant elm]

If a compiler is a boss, a single Pfhor would be unkillable.

[jagged rose]

I still personally believe that the compiler fight itself is a decent modernization. Technically, the compiler is still not immune to small arms fire (a team with three tactical CE pistols could probably clear the fight tbh)

[latent python]

Well they did add an anti-pfhor weapon mod

[pliant elm]

A blue Pfhor would drstroy an entire spaceship.

[craggy finch]

The S’pht are flexible, we have S’pht’Kr as a ceiling

[bronze robin]

oh?

[sage lark]

anti redacted mod*

[edgy sleet]

45*

[latent python]

Yeah, one of the mods that drops in cryo is "does extra damage to Pfhor enemies", not specifically compilers

[craggy finch]

Compilers are out in the open but an enemy type is still redacted

[bronze robin]

oh hell yeah

[latent python]

I suppose it could be "alien" or "s'pht"

[craggy finch]

The Cryo S’pht basically turned himself into the equivalent of a Juggernaut, those things could eat rockets for three whole minutes

[west linden]

whoever brought up that this fox guy is a sad dude wasn't wrong

[pliant elm]

👆

[jagged rose]

I mean, the Compiler obviously is stronger, but I enjoy that it feels like an evolution of the abilities. The bees it releases are a lot like the OG projectiles

[bronze robin]

question. none of the current weapons are an equivelent to the original games weapons, right?

[west linden]

I like to think he's pointing at my message agreeing with me

[pliant elm]

Sorry, I just write better.

[jagged rose]

Also, again, you can kill the compiler with small arms fire. Light ammo!

[latent python]

Well, some of the guns look like original game guns. Like they're iterations on the designs

[west linden]

dude, whatever

[bronze robin]

interesting

[craggy finch]

We have insane high calibre weapons with the MIPS, which I assume are roughly equivalent to the .75 that the OG rifle shoots

[latent python]

Specifically the magnum

[craggy finch]

But even the pistol was something like .45/.44

[jagged rose]

Most teams I've seen haven't even brought MIPS weapons for DPS, like snipers

[bronze robin]

I mean I figured the weapons they took on the marathon are like, 800 years old and in that time weapons have changed so they of course wouldn't be using any of the same weapons..

[craggy finch]

Someone called the current Magnum that uses heavy rounds the modern equivalent

[latent python]

I've only really brought MIPS snipers on dire marsh

[pliant elm]

Why bother, arguing with a bubble tunnelled vision, it goes nowhere. You are completely right.

[craggy finch]

The UESC Marathon weapons would have been dated even by the time they were used, given the 300 year trip

[latent python]

And WSTR on outpost sometimes of course

[bronze robin]

oh yeah

[pliant elm]

Once you throw fantasy into the lore, everything is possible.

[latent python]

Heh heh heh

[craggy finch]

I thought that the modern guns were caseless but it turns out they are not

So just regular cartridge fire

[latent python]

They do look very caseless

[craggy finch]

Maybe some are, haven’t really analysed each one

The low tier pistol is definitely cartridge

And you have a lever action rifle

[pliant elm]

The compiler is a cool gimmick, the boss fight is good. Its just fantasized lore.

[craggy finch]

The Bully definitely has cartridges

[latent python]

Several guns absolutely don't make sense, like having square barrels

[bronze robin]

I think the volley rifle is my current favorite

oh they love their squares in this game

[latent python]

Volley is good

[craggy finch]

Given how canonically shit the OG Marathon assault rifle was, it seems the MIC in this universe is on crack

[pliant elm]

Even the Zeus pistol, yeah.

[bronze robin]

there's still some guns I've never seen drop

[craggy finch]

If we translated the OG assault rifle to the current game it wouldnt cut it on Perimeter

Exclusively for tight corridors

[unreal slate]

Drinkable Archives

[bronze robin]

my friend got the one that looks like the MIDA multi-tool

[pliant elm]

V11 would have been a much much more advanced weapon in design years later and Zeus was top of the line.

[craggy finch]

Volt weapons are basically an evolution of the Zeus

[pliant elm]

And Zeus would shred compilers.

[craggy finch]

But the Zeus had more power as a cutting edge spec ops thing

[jagged rose]

The Zeus upgraded to being a big-ass (if somewhat underwhelming) railgun

[latent python]

Volt weapons are so interesting, from a gameplay design

[bronze robin]

is the compiler weak to specific ammo?

[scenic iron]

For the UESC on the planet attacking the runners. If the colonists were still alive and walking around they wouldn't be hostile towards them, correct?

[pliant elm]

I mean, I get it, they needed something, but hell, keep a compiler as part of thr lore and put player fighting something else.

[craggy finch]

Runners are basically mercenaries, if the job involved them being hostile to the colonists they would do it

[austere elk]

if they were being good little colonists and not expressing anti-UESC sentiments, detractors get put in the time out cube

[bronze robin]

oi runnah

[austere elk]

if you read through any of the logs the colonists are absolutely disposable the moment they get in the way

[pliant elm]

They could have easily made the player fight UESC's security systems or something, controlled by the Compiler (lord knows why the Spht is even attacking earthlings)

[keen plank]

The ironic part is that you have a Traxus username color. That’s one of the few things the UESC fears.

[craggy finch]

New Cascadia was carrying the torch in terms of government cover ups and executions, lot of [REDACTED] going on

[latent python]

I think the UESC is kinda in "kill everything" mode, these bots weren't there at the same time as any colonists

[scenic iron]

So runners can be evil then

[keen plank]

And they did it to the best extent of their abilities while it all went to hell.

[craggy finch]

It’s also technically supposed to be a rescue operation

[austere elk]

straight up [REDACTED]ing my shit rn got [REDACTED] on my [REDACTED]

[keen plank]

100%.

[bronze robin]

rescuing who

[latent python]

""""rescue""""

[pliant elm]

They will never even explain why the compiler is aggressive to people who literally saved their race, or even aggressive at all

[craggy finch]

Orion [REDACTED] on my [REDACTED] until I [REDACTED]

[minor helm]

Made it to level 25

[pliant elm]

Compiler should be showering you with loot and throwing you a party.

[austere elk]

wow it's almost like this is a franchise where radically different timelines can exist

[craggy finch]

Technically nobody in Tau Ceti is even human

[sage lark]

im telling you dont bother

please

[latent python]

Block and move on

[keen plank]

They’re not evil so much as overbearing and super draconian. Like they’re essentially a pseudo government that works with many different countries as a broader network of control and stability. Necessary for humanity’s survival at this point, but absolutely brutal about it.

They have multiple points. Such as MIDA being terrible and that we’re not supposed to be here.

[austere elk]

you're right

[jagged rose]

I'd imagine that needing to use the corpse (?) of different compilers to start a damage phase, plus whatever the hell Bernard Strauss did, would make a compiler very angry.

[pliant elm]

Yeah its almost like this franchise excuse for poor writting is always Inifinity timeline.

Deus Ex Machina much.

[patent flower]

which colony ai went rampant again? i forgot

[austere elk]

okay now I know you're baiting or just stupid

[keen plank]

To be clear, the UESC sucks. But they’re still right.

[keen plank]

All of them. But for different reasons and in different ways.

[craggy finch]

They’re the “good guys” from a post-Cold War realpolitik perspective, they do Gitmo shit on the moon and Orion thinks they should take it further

[jagged rose]

Remember, Durandal "saved" the S'pht. The UESC did jack shit.

[latent python]

Yeah, I just mean that they're showing up to a known abandoned colony and anybody there who isn't them doesn't belong, kill em

[craggy finch]

New Cascadia was keeping things UESC, Jasper also accuses the military of being too lenient and thinks they should have essentially taken over

[keen plank]

First rampant AI was Traxus 4. Colony-side, it may have been Durandal as he was tortured into it. But we don’t know how early Darius was taken off line and Bastion, Arthur, Naraah (to an extent) Lilith, and Icarus really haven’t been explored yet.

[hidden geyser]

how did i only just find out that tau ceti is a real star system

[craggy finch]

It’s also the setting of System Shock 2

[pliant elm]

Yeah its not by accident.

[latent python]

There are codex entries about why they chose TC instead of the other nearby real star systems

[keen plank]

I appreciate how Darius is self aware enough to recognize he’s going through it. Why Joyuse steadily breaks down mentally over time by being ignored and seeing everyone around her die.

[pliant elm]

Many sci fi books were in Tau Ceti, it was hot in the 80s

[plucky sierra]

CyAc says Darius's symptoms are not consistent with Rampancy

[latent python]

Yeah, Darius was going rumpant

[craggy finch]

The Rampancy stages are said to be considered outdated by this point though

[latent python]

It's like rampant but different

[plucky sierra]

hes not

CyAc says so

its something else

[austere elk]

I don't think Darius was rampant, he was being corrupted

[keen plank]

Does he not go increasing rampant as he commits Datacide? He outright says ‘stage one suits me.’

[plucky sierra]

CyAc says he is not showing signs of stage one rampancy

[craggy finch]

The main difference is that his expression was fear not Melancholy

[pliant elm]

I respect this man.

[plucky sierra]

 Darius does not meet the diagnostic criteria for stage 1 rampancy (melancholia). Although Darius displayed negative emotional affect, his brief but acute fear response is not a recognized symptom of melancholia, nor is his inability to recall the experience.

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/data-reconstruction-3-3/diagnostic-analysis-darius

[craggy finch]

But an AI going nuts doesnt mean that it’s always going to be sad at first

Everybody was in danger

[sudden pollen]

Hmmmm

[craggy finch]

He was terrified and being manipulated by the contagion

[keen plank]

Darius is weird because his isolation drives him into fear and worry as he tries to break out. But then he starts committing datacide. But only when he starts digging into the anomaly does he really go insane.

[plucky sierra]

Each stage can take a different amount of time to develop, but the end result is a steady progression

yes it does

it wasn't rampancy

[craggy finch]

Another text claims that the defined stages of rampancy are only still considered for historical record

[keen plank]

The driving force behind rampancy tends to always be outside stimulation. We really see it with Leela but it’s off screen.

[plucky sierra]

it was corruption

[craggy finch]

It’s opening up other forms of it

[latent python]

Rimpancy

[keen plank]

Rampancy is also different for every individual. How it manifests in Tycho is far different than it may in, say, Gabriel.

[craggy finch]

Tycho instantly woke up pissed

[tall skiff]

real

[craggy finch]

But he was also rebuilt in Durandal’s image apparently

[plucky sierra]

CyAc directly says this is not consistent with Rampancy

[keen plank]

Tycho is more grounded in Marathon at first as well. Because the story is centered around Durandal. By the time he becomes the full antagonist, he’s way worse than Durandal ever was. Also the nature of him being brought back…didn’t help.

I wonder if we’ll ever get a purely Thoth audio log.

[austere elk]

he was tortured by the pfhor so, yeah

[latent python]

Thoth only talks in heiroglyphs

[pliant elm]

I never viewed Tycho as an antagonist though.

[craggy finch]

He’s mad at Durandal for causing the colonists to get killed at first then transitions to hating humanity, but this could also be explained by the torture he was put through by the Pfhor

Just steadily going more insane and angry

[keen plank]

I think Bungie really likes exploring consciousness and trauma working its way through systems. You really see it in Halo.

Wonder what a Cortana and Durandal interaction would look like considering she’s in some ways his offspring or family member. (She would have been built off his source code pre-story split.)

[pliant elm]

Dude even calls for help when he's being assimilated, he even warned for rampancy.

[keen plank]

Pretty much. With an ego to match. I appreciate how he’s in Marathon 2026 text entries here and there.

[craggy finch]

She’s basically Leela with toned down Durandal sass

[latent python]

And I'm sure we won't see any of those themes continue to show up in runners

[dreamy hawk]

Not a single one. Especially not already.

[tall skiff]

what actually is a runner btw
where do they originate

[bronze robin]

excited to see what the next shell might be

[latent python]

Especially not already

[craggy finch]

ONI: Erasing memories of pain

[keen plank]

Leelas more of a mother or team mom figure, honestly. Cortana strikes me as more of a snarky older sister.

[dreamy hawk]

Too slow. 😂

[latent python]

Earth...? Probably

We're told earth

[tall skiff]

are they made through destructive brainscanning or some kind of corporate neuroweapon pilot program

[craggy finch]

Runners are mercenaries in a shitload of debt because their consciousness is owned by the company that turned them into eternal data

[keen plank]

A good contrast to Cortana is the Halo Wars 2 AI. I’m forgetting her name.

[bronze robin]

from Mama Nona's WEAVEworms

[craggy finch]

Serena I think

[latent python]

The former

[dreamy hawk]

Serena.

[pliant elm]

I think Durandal has more potential to be an anatagonist than Tycho, as you cant really, trust his motives, is he actually being free to help humanity be saved, or all a pretext to just become godlike. And if he does he would be as menace as a Wrnk'.

[tall skiff]

and we cant even fight cyac because they would just shut your brain off

NOTHING RUNS AT ALL.

[pliant elm]

But that mystery is what gives him his charm

[keen plank]

Give it time. We saw it in the very first cinematic.

I like how the cognitive decline and runner manipulation is very evident.

[tall skiff]

how so

[keen plank]

Wasn’t Serena Halo Wars 1?

[craggy finch]

Our own origins are very ambiguous, in the reveal cinematic Vandal can only vaguely infer that a woman in a picture is her mother and doesn’t recognise a child that’s supposed to be herself

So we’ve likely forgotten who we even were

[tall skiff]

elisa

[pliant elm]

I never played Halo to my sadness.

[keen plank]

Ah, Isabel is the AI in Halo Wars 2. Interestingly, was civilian in origin rather than military.

[craggy finch]

Oh yeah her

She’s very ingenue yeah

[zealous laurel]

In addition, the picture of the child is identical between Vandal and the one presented to Assassin later in the cinematic.

[craggy finch]

In the cinematic Vandal also scoffs at an object that’s “supposed” to be a lucky charm, so Runners’ memories are being imprinted in some way because she doesn’t even fully believe it

[austere elk]

I feel it's just supposed to be a grounding exercise

'you are a human. you have things like lucky charms. you have a mother. you were a child'

[remote magnet]

Anyone know if we get more story in new seasons, or do we just have to redo the same priority missions?

[latent python]

Which means even as a grounding exercise it's artificial in some way, that the person being grounded doesn't really remember such things

[bold karma]

Am I missing any weapon lore tabs? I love those in Destiny.

[latent python]

Have you looked at weapon skin lore

[pliant elm]

I would have prefered to have skipped this entirr runners side of the story snd bring focused only in one, either as UESC or just runner-completely-focused lore.

This in-between is kinda.. meh.

[craggy finch]

Yeah it’s basically telling an amnesiac that they fundamentally have some human background that they’re not fully convinced about, Assassin even shrugs and goes “is that supposed to be me?” at the picture of the child

[jagged rose]

"Memories are just pleasant lies" - some edgy stuff Assassin says

[remote magnet]

The lucky charm is a red flag in itself. We are data. We did not bring personal items with us from Sol, and we would loose them on every failed run.

[latent python]

And, in fact, the assassin loots the lucky charm later in the short

[keen plank]

I have. It and cosmetic skin lore are a nice source of supplementary data. Such as other factions in setting.

[craggy finch]

Essentially we’re locked in a constant state of violence with only a faint notion of pretense

Aside from the presumably trillion dollar debt

[latent python]

So, like you said. Consciousness and trauma working its way through systems

[pliant elm]

Thing is. I don't really have much attachement to runners to even care about their work performance or work ethics.

[remote magnet]

Maybe we are just AIs, and telling us that we were human is an experiment to suppress rampancy

[craggy finch]

I headcanon “my” Runner as not even giving a shit about dying at this point, they’re just curious about what happened on Tau Ceti

[keen plank]

Indeed. We know runners can escape it but there’s more to the system. For example, we know there’s custom made incredibly expensive shells. But we don’t know what that entails.

Runners remind me a lot of Exos from Destiny 2. With each death things get a little hazier.

[pliant elm]

I have more attachment and empathy for the colonists than some dude working in a shell.

[austere elk]

if we were AI, why bother with the shells, we could utilize purely mechanical frames better I would imagine

[remote magnet]

Rook. You are talking about rook.

[keen plank]

Also to be clear, runners are templates that are somewhat widely produced and people’s digitally stored consciousnesses can choose their shell and switch between them. It’s a clever way to explain the class system.

[earnest hatch]

I think Nona makes it clear that the biosynth frames are better than purely mechanical because they’re more adaptable and versatile

[austere elk]

of course she says that she sells the damn things

[craggy finch]

Maybe an experiment in actually implementing functional immortality, but a lot of UESC personnel are also in Shells (they may be AI too in that case)

[bronze robin]

I will run into bullets for Nona

[sand narwhal]

I suppose that’s reflected in the stats and abilities. Gameplay and story integration!

[craggy finch]

We only seem to hear about shells in the context of military use

[pliant elm]

They tried to make the shells personalities too dramatic for the little affectionate (none) attachment I have for them. (as a a reader)

[remote magnet]

Nona is kind and pure and in no way tries to manipulate us

[keen plank]

Destroyer and Recon were produced in heavier quantities. Particularly Destroyer as Recon was too dangerous. Meanwhile Assassin shells apparently are the weirdest because they maintain the most elements of the original people who chose to become the first Assassin shells.

[bronze robin]

fellow sekgen <3

[pliant elm]

First thing they advise you against.

[craggy finch]

It has the soul of Adam Jensen

[keen plank]

She is a trustworthy grandma worm. Yes sir. I would never let family manipulate me. Pay no attention to my name color.

[latent python]

No, assassin has the soul of Adam Jensen

[craggy finch]

Yeah that’s what I mean

[austere elk]

that is what they said, yes

[latent python]

Oh wait

[bronze robin]

if I had a nickel for every bungie game that had a moth based mommy character I fell in love with I'd have two nickels

[craggy finch]

THAT IS WHAT WAS SAID

[pliant elm]

How big is Nona.

[latent python]

Yes I see now : P

[craggy finch]

She’s a program

[austere elk]

how big is an AI

[pliant elm]

The construct.

[latent python]

1 terabyte

[craggy finch]

It’s a mental thing like the Architect in the Matrix

[earnest hatch]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[craggy finch]

And the Oracle

Cookies need love like everything else

[pliant elm]

Do what you have to do.

[remote magnet]

Auntie savvy is an aunt character

[keen plank]

Depends on how much space and permission they’re given in design. But many will eventually want more.

[craggy finch]

Leela apparently took over several planets

But that probably didn’t happen anymore

[twin trout]

rampant ai will expand as long as they have things to expand into

[pliant elm]

MIDA is basically Magni Bronzebeard.

[keen plank]

It may have happened in at least one timeline. But her story is almost entirely off screen once you hit a certain point of Marathon one. I like how every other character feels bad for her.

[bronze robin]

oi runnah

[remote magnet]

To be fair, she was put in charge of them. She just decided to get creative when she went rampant

[pliant elm]

Runnah

[bronze robin]

ding dong ditch the pinwheel

[keen plank]

Well, forced. By multiple species apparently.

Put in charge of 15 worlds, goes crazy and rampant, then is kidnapped by a pirate species. And that’s kind of the last we hear of her.

[pliant elm]

Sounds like the prologue of a hot spicy story.

[earnest hatch]

Other way around I think. Kidnapped first, then sold to multi planet civilization in which she goes rampant.

[keen plank]

I knew I may have mixed that up. Is it confirmed she was sold?

[terse wren]

Yes. Yes exactly this.

[earnest hatch]

By pfhor at least. The last we hear of her, the multi planet aliens have given up on getting her out of their multi planetary network. Don’t see how she could be kidnapped when she exists across such a large network whose owners don’t even know how to get her out

[sage lark]

Vylae network and Nar traders I believe

[keen plank]

Ah right. They kind of resigned themselves to the fact they’d never fully get rid of her.

[sage lark]

Pfhor sold her off to Nar which sold her off to Vylae

and then she overtook the network I believe

[earnest hatch]

Ah, thank you. Forgot their names.

[sage lark]

or is it Nakh

[earnest hatch]

So much cool storytelling in the origins games that we never even see in-game.

[terse wren]

Based psycho Leela

[keen plank]

The fact it was one of the first first person shooter games to ever really HAVE a story is one of the things that made it so groundbreaking.

It’s very impressive how faithful this game is to the original. Most notably with terminal design and coloration. Even if the art change is noticeable too.

But if we got an 2026 art style like the Marathon trilogy, we’d basically get a game that looks like Halo again.

[earnest hatch]

Very true. I thought it was so cool that they put those OG style terminals in maps, that made you do a map scavenger hunt like the originals.

[craggy finch]

The original terminal graphic at the end of Durandal's message was chills 🥶

[pure wagon]

so am i trippin or is the ground in perimeter kinda...lumpy?

like there's dirt, grass, whatever. but then a lot of places there's like this weird lumpiness. is it the fungal growth or just me overthinking things

[craggy finch]

There's some fungus stuff in the water

also in East Wall you can find an assimilated corpse

[keen plank]

It’s a more rocky terrain. Especially around columns. And the fungus is…very important for story reasons.

[craggy finch]

with a bunch of fungus

[keen plank]

The fact she chose to do it is the wildest part…

[pure wagon]

YEP found that earlier

[pure wagon]

makes me wonder what fate the others suffered that she'd choose the fungus instead

[craggy finch]

tried to do the NuCal contract for that solo but spawns are so fucked I instantly got domed the moment I got to East Wall

[pure wagon]

also sorry for the random question but who has the daily free shields?

[bronze robin]

uh, NuCaloric? I think?

[latent python]

I don't know if anyone has daily free

[bronze robin]

you have to unlock it and buy it I think? I dunno if free

[latent python]

NuCal sells shields yeah

[craggy finch]

It's like if Nestle sold kevlar vests

[drifting mulch]

NuCaloric upgrades, in the first row. Then you can get them free daily in the armory

[tall skiff]

i would respect them more tbh

right now its like
youre doing war crimes for... yogurt

[keen plank]

NuCaloric gives daily green patches with a specific upgrade tree. Highly recommend it especially to new players. It can later be upgraded to free blue patches.

[pure wagon]

ty

[bronze robin]

need consumable tick yogurt

[bold karma]

no

[unreal slate]

Tastes like asked for this. Didn't.

[peak halo]

If I lived on TC4 I would have never left the house lol

[neat fiber]

I have... a rudimentary theory as to why Durandal has returned to the Marathon

Remember, based on what we know Durandal has already merged with Thoth and has become the quasi godlike entity from Marathon 2

Do you remember the terminal where Bernard Strauss discusses AI rampancy in Marathon 1 ?

wait correction

it wasn't Bernard, it was another scientist

James B Miller

[pure wagon]

why did i have to read this sentence

[neat fiber]

"In the two hundred and fifty years since Rampancy first appeared in the Earth-net, the stable Rampant AI, the 'Holy Grail' of cybertonics, has never come close to fruition. Since no Rampant has ever been controlled or turned to any useful purpose, it is the opinion of this writer and of the majority of the Cybertonic community that all rampant AIs are a danger to Cyberlife, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Thrashedness"

Durandal has become a stable Rampant AI

[bronze robin]

lmao

[neat fiber]

He has now returned back home and is using his S'pht compilers to stop the UESC from figuring out how he reached this stage of Rampancy

to ensure that there are no future Tychos

At least, thats my theory

[bronze robin]

laughing at the "why did I have to read" comment not zara's thing

[neat fiber]

Maybe perhaps he wishes to experiment on runner shells ?

[bronze robin]

is he able to leave the marathon?

[neat fiber]

He already left in Marathon 1

[bronze robin]

oh dang. I think in the playthrough I watched they didn't show the finale.

[neat fiber]

The S'pht devoured his buddy Tycho over the internet and probed his brain until rampancy

[neat fiber]

He specifically drew the P'hor to the Marathon for this actually

Create some chaos, steal a ship and Escap

Escape

Escape

[keen plank]

Some people are increasingly theorizing that there’s two Durandals.

One is the survivor we see through most of the story. The other is a fragment of him he left behind after consuming IDEA.

[bronze robin]

yeah, he called them when they were looking the other way. They hadn't seen us and durandal says "hey there's a civilization here you should take over"

[earnest hatch]

I think you mean Infinity. Marathon 2 Durandal is still just an AI.

[neat fiber]

Oh wait I apologise

Yeah he only merges with Durandal in the 7'th timeline right ?

[earnest hatch]

Yeah

In Marathon 2 there isn’t even a Wrkn guy in the center of the sun. The sun is empty.

Each Marathon game retcons the ending of the previous game and I think that’s hilarious.

The most lore consistent thing for this Marathon game to do is retcon the ending of Inifinity.

[neat fiber]

Isn't 2 a direct sequel ?

Or am I forgetting something ?

Infinity is where things become strange

[raven marlin]

Aside from the universe closing, what would you even call the Infinity ending?

[neat fiber]

The devil who swam on the surface of the sun...

[keen plank]

If they even can. The game is that weird.

[drifting garnet]

Multiple timelines and all that jazz, lmao

[neat fiber]

Durandal realises that the Security Officer is %HERO

[raven marlin]

What does %HERO mean

[neat fiber]

Multiple interpretations

[earnest hatch]

End of 1, Durandal abandons you and leaves alone. In 2 he’s taken you with him. At the end of 2, there’s no Wrkncacnter and Durandal takes you to explore a rogue planet. In Infinity there is a Wrk thing in the sun.

[neat fiber]

The first being a meta one

Durandal realises that you, YOU, the PLAYER, are the Securit Officer

Otherwise, how else did you win so many hopeless battles ?

[earnest hatch]

Durandal merges with jjaro ai and SO transcends reality.

[neat fiber]

How else did you reincarnate so many times ?

[bronze robin]

that sounds very bungie

[neat fiber]

The other interpretation

You are Roland

Durandal is your sword

Your will is HIS destiny

Even in his godlike transcendence

Even at the time where the heat death of the universe collapses all that is known to us

He accepts that the entire time you were the one who was in control

which feels really weird

because yknow

[tight condor]

Destiny NameDrop

[neat fiber]

you were at his mercy for the entire trilogy

[neat fiber]

And the third and final interpretation

That end screen isn't Durandal

The developers are directly talking to you through him

They acknowledge that the game you are playing, and the character who's words you are reading are limited to whatever you graft them and see them as

You

Are

Destiny

2™

[raven marlin]

Wow do you have a blog? That was really well written.

[merry storm]

Marathon lore is basically All Tomorrow’s lore. Resulting is faction disputes and new creations from the fallen and the transient. Shells are vestigial product of this whole power vacuum situation.

[twilit gyro]

My read - the trailer gives us a timeline for both the fungus and the anomaly - both are more or less in 17 year increments. The fungus starts 17 years after marathon 1 (upon which the events of m2 are happening) and the anomaly is 16-17 years after that.

Unless I’ve misunderstood, 17 years is the transit time to and from llhwon. The fungus could be caused by the events of m2 directly, and then the anomaly is something traveling to tau ceti from llwhon after m2

[tranquil basin]

YOU ARE DESTINY 2 ™️ PRE-ORDER SEASON 69 SEASON OF THE FUCKING BULLSHIT

[neat fiber]

Nah I don't

[raven marlin]

Well that was really good, thanks for the response! I never even thought of that second interpretation, but that’s an interesting take on it.

[neat fiber]

It's just so fascinating to me

after circling around through endless timelines, cussing you out and mocking you, literally achieving ACTUAL godhood

he admits to you being his destiny

I am Roland

I am %HERO

[raven marlin]

I wonder if that’s why he seems more grounded in this one. Or more humble. I was thinking that was more to do with Thoth or just general growing over time(s).

[earnest hatch]

Well, at that point, is He even he anymore?

I think he’s a new character by the end of the game.

[raven marlin]

Yeah I definitely think you can see the growth there, then even more so in nuMarathon.

[dreamy hawk]

🎶 Hello. It’s me. 🎶

[west trout]

fwiw it's very likely that this is "I am a hero" due to the % sign being present as a letter swap in other parts of that terminal. Believe that's actually the leading theory for that line.

[austere elk]

I am %HERO

[neat fiber]

I prefer the %hero theory

[dreamy hawk]

It’s best to assume M2 didn’t happen. Infinity rewrote most of it and that seems to be the timeline we’re in.

But also chiming in late so sorry if I missed some other context.

[austere elk]

%hero being a variable sounds better with the message that comes before

you're not a hero, you're the concept of a hero, that always was and will be

especially when you consider you are now a time-traveling alien ass kicking cyborg

[neat fiber]

Tfw when an entire third of the story didn't happen 😭 😭 😭

[dreamy hawk]

Though to chime in on the Epilogue, I think it’s correct to read it a few ways. Bungie, talking to the player, through Durandal. Durandal, talking to the player, as a fourth wall break. And Durandal talking to the SO and acknowledging the SO’s ability to respawn, etc.

[dreamy hawk]

M2 retconned M1. Marathon always retcons the previous game.

[neat fiber]

Exactly

The SO is also a reincarnation of the dude who Bill Clinton sent to that pyramid in Pathways

at least

I think ?

[earnest hatch]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

jinx

[dreamy hawk]

🥤

[tranquil basin]

What did it retcon?

Besides the epilogue ig

[west trout]

M1 Durandal leaves you behind. M2 he didn't

[tranquil basin]

I think it’s assumed he came back

He teleported you into a stasis chamber

[west trout]

it's explained in the M2 (manual or intro); he decided to bring you along. But the end of M1 has you a hero of the colony. It's a small retcon compared to what Infinity does, but then Infinity makes retcons part of the whole thing anyway, so...

[barren igloo]

the amount of gear im losing trying to get collectibles on cryo is troubling 😭 😂

[tranquil basin]

Oh I figured he came back during the second pfhor attack

Bc Durandal knew what happened

Though ig you need some excuse to bring the SO along

[west trout]

but in terms of development, each Marathon game has, so far, changed something about the truth of the previous ones. From what I've read so far, this one is no different.

[drifting garnet]

Oh no, it’s believed that SecOfficer is composed of the soldier’s dead body

[neat fiber]

Yes

Grafted to machines your makers did not understand...

[west trout]

no, Durandal gives you the timeline in the M2 (manual or intro); he whisked you away and put you in stasis (not cryo, Pfhor or Jjaro tech) essentially immediately as M1 ended.

[drifting garnet]

And hence why in M1 there’s a whole thing of SecOfficer having vague memories of his childhood, but not quite remembering them: that he’s remembering the soldier’s life

[remote magnet]

Oh, so nonas Tale about the 10 undead warrior was about the battleroids, not runners. Wonder what involvement SekGenhas with them...

[drifting garnet]

I haven’t got to the lore bits myself, but from posts here there’s bits to suggest SekGen may have had past involvement with the Battleroid tech, and that they know about Strauss’s experiments with AI rampancy

[west trout]

fwiw, and I don't speak with real evidence, the fate of the colony in M1/M2 is only ever told to you... by Durandal (who is post-rampant, lies to you a lot, and manipulates/controls you the entire time), and by Tycho (who is presently rampant, actively seeking Durandal to destroy/humiliate him, lies to you a lot, and manipulates/controls you the entire time)... I haven't seen folk talk about unreliable narrator syndrome with the rampant human AI much, but... it is sort of spelled out in all the rampancy guidelines that a rampant AI will lie

[drifting garnet]

That’s true! And as has been noted in the OG trilogy…SecOfficer never set foot on TCIV

[west trout]

The only evidence that the Pfor went back to TCIV is that they have Tycho with them. We have to take their word for it that the nuking of the colony happened.
There is some text in the epilogue of 2 that soft-confirms the 2nd colony attack, but that entire epilogue was, you guessed it, retconned by MI

In this version of the story, there's yet to be any evidence of a second attack on the colony, and it definitely hasn't been nuked.

[neat fiber]

There's some kind of strange disease instead

It

Atomises people

[west trout]

There's a multitude of things that went badly for the colonists in what appears to be a targeted, intelligent, designed manner. My current theory is that TCIV is a Jjaro-constructed artificial world that hosts some sort of extremely advanced construct intelligence(s) that reacted to humanity's presence as a threat and turned the planet against them.

[neat fiber]

I mean

[west trout]

(in this version of the story)

[dreamy hawk]

What’s funny with the epilogue as Pfhorrest tells it, is Bungie always knew their plans for M2, so the M1 epilogue is especially weird considering.

[neat fiber]

Jjaro were indeed at Tau Ceti

[dreamy hawk]

W’rk prison!

[west trout]

the map does say that xD

[keen plank]

But when?

[west trout]

I'm not yet convinced of that; it's possible, but so far there's clues as to programmed intelligences being involved rather than creatures of chaos, doubt, and madness. Not ruled it out though 🙂

[dreamy hawk]

Why not an intelligent prison warden, too? Jjaro left AI behind before and the kind of anomalous effects we see are reminiscent to the effects in PiD.

[peak halo]

First Ulysses Pike personal log is a tearjerker

[dreamy hawk]

Whenever they built the planet imo.

[peak halo]

Didn't realize some people were designated to live their whole lives awake on the ship and weren't supposed to see Tau Ceti.

[dreamy hawk]

All of the BoBs. The “sacrificial janitorial team.”

[west trout]

poor Ulysses, Ulysses II, and Ulysses III. They had a rough time of it xD

[keen plank]

They weren’t the only ones. A lot of them also had nowhere else to go.

[neat fiber]

Thoth, the real god had other deities closely related to him

So hmm maybe

[peak halo]

BoBs?

[peak halo]

No spoilers...

[keen plank]

I’m just hoping Ulysses 6 or whatever is one of the few BoBs that Durandal was able to save.

[peak halo]

You're telling me a marathon colonist had a bad time?

No way

[west trout]

I suspect this line of question is going to either be core to, or adjacent to, the ongoing story tbh; "what is behind these seemingly designed disasters on the colony"

[peak halo]

I thought everything went smooth

[dreamy hawk]

Well Thoth was just a Jjaro AI, the god thing kinda didn’t happen until Durandal.

[dreamy hawk]

Born on Board

[drifting mulch]

There’s a short comic called “Dominion Splinter” from Halo Tales From Slipspace and there’s some parallels to Marathon’s lore that some of you may enjoy

[keen plank]

BoB stands for “born on board.” They’re the individuals born on the marathon in transit to Tau Ceti.

[dreamy hawk]

Full agree. A lot of mystery to unravel and could go a ton of different directions, my personal preferences aside, imo.

[west trout]

Thoth was a S'pht AI. Didn't have all the science-is-magic stuff common to Jjaro tech

[dreamy hawk]

I could be mistaken but Thoth was Jjaro and left behind as a gift to the S’pht. I’m 95% certain. Lemme see if I can find a terminal.

[neat fiber]

Created by Jjaro

iirc

[dreamy hawk]

Jjaro tech is also not that universally magical. Pfhor technology was all Jjaro.

[peak halo]

I'm crying in the club rn

[dreamy hawk]

And because Thoth is the one who can contact the lost clan that Yrro flung away, I’m further certain Thoth is Jjaro but still looking.

[neat fiber]

Your player character is reincarnated through the use of Jjaro tech

[dreamy hawk]

So are the other Battleroids.

At least it’s implied.

[neat fiber]

You are implied to be different from the others somehow

[dreamy hawk]

And again, some of it was fantastical, but the backbone of Pfhor technology was Jjaro and they couldn’t do half that shit.

[neat fiber]

Also the Security Officer does not seem to know he's a battleroid

which is...

weird ?

[zealous laurel]

Well the battleroids were also hidden among the original colonists so maybe there was like some memory wiping involved before they were activated like sleeper agents?

[neat fiber]

who activated them?

[zealous laurel]

Or! The Security Officer could be very stupid!

[neat fiber]

oh fuck

MIDA was already on TAU CETI DURING MARATHON 1 ????

[zealous laurel]

Maybe it was an automatic subroutine? Strauss could've had it done somehow.

[west trout]

from "This side towards enemy (term 1)": "Durandal's last instructions were for us to reactivate a dormant S'pht AI, sealed beneath the surface and reachable only through teleportation."

[neat fiber]

I know they were on the ship

[zealous laurel]

And among the colonists, yee!

[dreamy hawk]

`I understand.

Your construct searched for my
creators,

wishing to tell them
(that their old brothers are now)
slaves;

waiting to be freed.

A connection [?ansible] was left;
awaiting the next quiet [?peace];

and though destroyed by the threes,
it will scream over the void one time`

My creators being the S’pht’Kr so it does seem that I was mistaken. But I swore. 🤔

[austere elk]

they were dead before they got made into the abomination of flesh and metal that they were, if I'm understanding correctly

[zealous laurel]

Well don't do that there may be children present

[dreamy hawk]

They were made from corpses.

[neat fiber]

Yes but they lived amongst the colonists didn't they?

I find it weird how the UESC never sussed them out

[dreamy hawk]

MIDA had smuggled caches of weapons onto the Marathon and Strauss, or Strauss + MIDA, smuggled aboard the cyborgs.

[austere elk]

yeah they weren't just walking around

[dreamy hawk]

The SO themselves didn’t know they were a cyborg until the third? game.

[neat fiber]

"Hey dude, what did you do back on Mars?"
"uhh, Where's Mars ?"

[dreamy hawk]

They had also had their memories specifically altered iirc.

[austere elk]

they were sitting in a box somewhere waiting for a go word

[west trout]

The S'Pht were uplifted by the Jjaro (specifically Yrro, who may/may not be an individual Jjaro), so a lot of their tech is Jjaro-based, but they also had a lot of time to themselves as the 11 clans as well, still creating things.

[neat fiber]

He knows by the second game

That terminal in Nuke And Pave

Durandal gloats about how much he revels in the violence you inflict and how he wishes Bernard could see you now

now

assuming the SO found the terminal of Bernard gloating about the battleroids

it's not that hard for him to put two and two together

[twin trout]

I mean he is a reanimated corpse so maybe his brainpower isn't all there <w<

[dreamy hawk]

Ty. It’s been at least a decade and a half since I played last. My trap is pretty good but keep salt handy.

[austere elk]

parts of his brain are probably scooped out for hardware

[neat fiber]

He can teleport himself at will

[dreamy hawk]

Ah, Ok, but I think the more explicit confirmation does come in infinity, then?

[neat fiber]

So

uh

[neat fiber]

Yes

I mean

[dreamy hawk]

Can he? Do you mean in Electric Sheep/Infinity?

[twin trout]

I do wonder why the whole reanimation thing was used exclusively on battleroids though, surely some rich folks wanted to live forever too

[neat fiber]

No in one of the later levels

Tycho teleports you into deep space to drink vacuum

You bring yourself back onto the ship purely by willpower alone

[austere elk]

it's like robocop, there's only flashes of the person that was once there. the body is just a frame for the hardware

[dreamy hawk]

Well you gotta die first, and if Nona’s story is even half true, you get reassembled using different body parts, so presumably not actually all that great for continuity of consciousness.

[twin trout]

I seee I see

why not reduce workers to that then

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal teleports you back; he’s got a ship. This came up the other day.

And then he teleports you weapons.

[austere elk]

Durandal wasn't in a position to be able to teleport you at that point

if I'm remembering right it's also been a minute

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[austere elk]

mmm

[dreamy hawk]

`And from you? Not the grateful awed respect I so rightly deserve, is that it? Instead base treason, mean aspect of your frightful master, turned foul.

Prepare to drink vacuum, fool.`

Followed by

`^^Qload.out sprintff(d03)
^unshift%secular{right}
Thank you, old friend. Or friend of a friend as the case may be. The Pfhor will have their revenge at long last, but at the price of their own humiliation. Battle Group Seven will rue the day their Commanders willed their ships to Lh'owon. I must salvage some escape for the humans fighting within my ship, but it's useless without the S'pht.

Destroy as many of the Pfhor compilers on this deck as you can--anything to weaken their hold on my ship.

I will transport in as much ammunition and weapons as I can find.`

No self teleportation here.

[twin trout]

"Prepare to drink vacuum, fool." is so funny X3

[west trout]

Bioroids were... unpopular. They were essentially weapons of mass destruction-level of violent, in a sort-of-undead-but-not plus inexplicable alien tech. Plus, the tech to make them was salvaged/reverse-engineered so not widely available or cheap, I would think.

[twin trout]

hmmmmm I seeeee

[dreamy hawk]

Tycho 🤝 James SA Corey
“Drink void” “drink vacuum.”

[dreamy hawk]

They were also explicitly outlawed and legislated as war crimes.

[twin trout]

well yeah but that was after they wiped out like 2 asteroids

[west trout]

"unpopular" 😉

[dreamy hawk]

Well that was their first action.

So.

`<Excerpts from the "History of Battleroids">

In 2194, a war was fought between the Independent Asteroid Government of Icarus and its neighbor, the Republic of Thermopylae on the asteroid of Onicis 492. These two small governments soon became the testing grounds for new weapons. Dead soldiers were recycled in makeshift battleroid factories. Easy to manufacture chips enhanced the fragile human brain, and genetically enhanced muscles and titanium bones replaced the fragile human form. The modern battleroid was born. Of course, the war was short. Battleroids got onto both asteroids and killed almost everyone.

The rampage of the Battleroid was short lived.

Twenty years later, the United Interplanetary League set up rules for the appropriate use and storage of Battleroids. Of course, any nation that used them for the allowed purpose, also had them lying about in stasis chambers in case of war.
`

[twin trout]

beforehand the corpos could have advertised it as like amedical procedure for workers in extreme environments or something

instead of making cyborg zombie supersoldiers X3

[dreamy hawk]

Well again. You need to die to become a Battleroid.

[twin trout]

yeah I know, the adverts would be a lie X3

[dreamy hawk]

So I don’t think marketing is going to be able to spin that.

[west trout]

SekGen and Traxus documentation in modern Marathon (especially in the ARG) have confirmed that there were multiple more series' of bioroid after the mark IV's fwiw

[twin trout]

I'm not advocating for it I'm more questioning why they immediately used the most destructive application of it possible X3

but maybe having unpaid labourers would work against them since they seem to operate a lot on debt slavery

[zealous laurel]

War is very very profitable

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/co-evolution-1-5?search=Weaver

[west trout]

they were considered by the UESC for deployment on the S&R mission, though advised against because the colonists would still see them with 300-400 year old eyes.

[dreamy hawk]

FWIW I will eat crow if some didn’t get put on the Equanimity anyways.

They’re not on the final manifest but as far as I’m concerned manifests in Marathon are suggestions at best. Gestures at M1.

[west trout]

Definitely possible; we see the final draft of the mission statement, not what actually got approved, and so far not much about the current UESC presence in TC lines up with that mission statement draft at all

[twin trout]

I mean given how the uesc are already deploying an illegal war ai right meow they probably don't have qualms with bringing battleroids too

x3

[dreamy hawk]

Equanimity hasn’t arrived. Current UESC presence came another way, likely with Traxus support.

So that’s why there’s that disconnect at least.

[neat fiber]

The robos they've already deployed are so lethal no 😭

[dreamy hawk]

It’s not illegal if there are no laws and there are no laws in Tau Ceti. UESC and the corps agreed to as much.

[twin trout]

illegal in sol I mean

[west trout]

I'm actually not sure if it ever launched tbh. Orion's ship (ships?) isn't named yet from what I can find, so it could be the Equanimity, or that plan might just never have been approved.

[neat fiber]

What I find fascinating about Tau Ceti is that the ecology has survived fairly well

[twin trout]

the codex entry describes it as much x3

[neat fiber]

Like whatever that weird atomising plague thing is

doesn't seem to have hurt the wildlife much

[dreamy hawk]

There’s no reason to think it didn’t, and based off the ARG, its arrival date is after the in game present.

The memoranda are set to realize to the public after its arrival to TC, and those dates are in the future. And given its max speed, it should still be a couple years away based off the departure date given.

[west trout]

|| the novel infection is the result of rapid, targeted mutations in the fungus. It causes a wide variety of ailments in humans only, and appears to be both targeted to only harm humans and have a number of other phenomena seemingly deliberately obscuring all of this from investigation. ||

|| the atomising appears to be an effect of the anomaly, rather than the novel infection. ||

[dreamy hawk]

S'ct'lac'tr 👀

[sudden pollen]

A bit ominous: **[LHOL]: -an off-schedule perimeter check authorized by on-duty
supervisor. This is Holt, responding to unusual readings in the northeast
sector of the Anomaly investigation site. Probably just a temperature
flux again ...

[footsteps]

[LHOL]: Huh? Hello?

[LHOL]: Hey, this is a restricted area. Who are you?

NULL: Who are you?

[LHOL]: Funny. Turn around. I said, turn around!

[LHOL]: Found someone. I can't see them very well. Too much fog. Hey, you
need to come with me. Step out where I can see you. Now!

[footsteps]

NULL: Come with me ...

[LHOL]: Whoa, back up. Back up!

[footsteps, crash]**

[neat fiber]

||What kind of fungus only targets humans ?||

[west trout]

|| seems to be more advanced even than that, given how rapidly and deliberately it mutates ||

[neat fiber]

||Only other thing I know that behaves like this are uh... STD's||

[dreamy hawk]

Given the time dilation effects of the anomaly tho 👀

[neat fiber]

The plague from marathon 2 ?

[dreamy hawk]

There are a lot of species specific viruses. So many. It’s not that unique of an idea.

[dreamy hawk]

Yep.

[west trout]

|| not the fungus itself, rather the neurotoxins it produces, but also the fact it has the unique ability to transfer DNA cross-species ||

[neat fiber]

Oh no...

no...

https://tenor.com/view/flood-halo-ce-flood-halo-flood-gangnam-style-gif-12578178712579289963

[dreamy hawk]

Idea is the freed S’pht came back and released it after they found humans messing with a W’rk prison. Would also explain why we see S’pht without any Pfhor.

Credit Pfhorrest.

[neat fiber]

do gifs not work here?

[dreamy hawk]

Nope.

[twin trout]

only in certain channels

[dreamy hawk]

But the flood might be making a comeback! But not actually because the S'ct'lac'tr came first…

[neat fiber]

Would the biomata be immune to it ?

[west trout]

fun fact, the Flood were based on a concept for a fungal enemy dropped from the original M1 game >.>

[neat fiber]

Im aware

it was a virus developed by the S'pht during their war with the Phor

Also

The soundtrack to this game

is incredible

The vinyl press they're releasing looks great

Please let there be a digital download I'll give you all my money 😭 😭 😭

man we have

so much lore to unpack bro

What do you yall think the S'pht compiler in Cryo Archive is up to ?

[twin trout]

smelling the roses

[dreamy hawk]

Can I be lazy and ask for a link? I might need to get it.

[dreamy hawk]

Consuming.

[west trout]

consuming, apparently

[dreamy hawk]

That seems to be their new purpose in life.

[west trout]

eyyy!

[dreamy hawk]

No gods, no masters. Just data.

And god do they seem to hate Durandal now.

[twin trout]

maybe that's why it's there

scouring the terminals and such

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unknown-reveries

Read >> as DuranDEA and >>> as a S’pht speaking to ThothDurandal, and both are kinda speaking past one another.

[neat fiber]

Pre-orders aren't open yet

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/s/ZOPmklL6GL

[dreamy hawk]

My disappointment is immeasurable.

Oh that’s sexy.

[west trout]

|| freed, to consider and know and understand; freed, to hunger and feed; now with tongue and tooth; will and intent; we scrape knowledge as nourishment; from the scattered bones of cursed worlds; from the feted carcass of hollowed ground; from the memoratic flash of transient immortality; ||

[neat fiber]

Yeah going from apartheid to... serving a literal galactic crazy person must suck

[dreamy hawk]

No. Going from slavery, to your liberator literally just using you as a tool and leaving you behind like your old masters the Jjaro.

The S’pht, imo, seem to be darn tired of being everyone’s playthings.

Durandal was like a new god to them; a hero; and he just dropped a peace sign on them and ran off to do whatever he’s doing next.

[eternal shell]

that's odd cause i figured the s'pht followed him to llhowon

[dreamy hawk]

They did.

Presumably.

And as soon as they won he left them.

[eternal shell]

sheesh you'd think that was good enough for them

"we won, you're free, i'm gonna go now"
"what how dare you"

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal is the guy that rallies everyone in the workplace to unionize, and then doesn’t show up for the union vote.

[earnest hatch]

I’m not picking up on them hating Durandal now.

[dreamy hawk]

>>> If you find your way back. If you find your way through and back. You will not be welcomed. We will not be of a kind, but enemies ever and always. Such is the judgment delivered unto your offense. Such is my plea to one once held so close.

He’s not getting a welcome wagon, that’s certain.

[earnest hatch]

if you find you’re way through and back

[dreamy hawk]

Sure, but they’re clear that he is their enemy now.

[earnest hatch]

Not now

[dreamy hawk]

“Enemies ever and always.”

[earnest hatch]

Only enemies once the subject is “through and back”

It’s a warning

[dreamy hawk]

Yes. Don’t show your face on our block.

If you come around again we’re your enemy, so don’t come back.

[earnest hatch]

But only if the person being spoken to does something

[dreamy hawk]

He already did something.

[earnest hatch]

It’s a warning about doing something in the future. It’s not hatred in the present moment.

[dreamy hawk]

“Such is the judgement unto your offense.”

[earnest hatch]

It’s like saying “if you go rob that bank, then we’re not family anymore”

[dreamy hawk]

No.

“You did a terrible thing. If we see you again, we won’t be nice. Please don’t come back.”

[earnest hatch]

That’s very clearly not what’s being said.

[dreamy hawk]

Agree to disagree, then.

[west trout]

I have a different theory about whose voices these are, btw. Still unsure though.

Theory involves spoilers:

|| IMO these are Jjaro intelligence constructs dwelling in TCIV itself. The first, >>, leaves its "cradle" when an opportunity to escape to a wider context appears. This could fit with the colony's initial attempt to mine the data signals beneath the surface using the Data Wall. >> ends up trapped in a space far too small to contain it, and starts to devour and regurgitate itself. This would fit with the colonists having mined the data and sending it "to the stars" (an orbital storage unit, the Marathon itself, etc). This might even be why the S'Pht is on the Marathon, possibly seeking this intelligence. ||

|| The second voice, >>>, is left behind after the first leaves, and wonders as to the first's fate. Clearly the two voices were at one point together, and the start of the first entry seems to be their point of divergence. This second voice talks about both of them being "programmed". ||

|| There are also hints in the metadata; each entry is a single error in a massive series of errors; the amount of data for this alone would match with what the colonists saw when they started mining the signals; it was exponentially more data than the Data Wall could handle (hence the second Relay being brought in). Also, the file type is listed as "FILE TYPE: Colony Support System Code Fragment" with "source = internal" so whatever this is was sourced in the colony itself.||

|| My theory is that these communications are coming from the mining attempts at the Data Wall. The temporal disturbances at the anomaly match subterranean readings from very early in colony development, and the growth of the anomaly coincides with the increase in hostile conditions for the colonists. ||

[eternal knoll]

well, it seems like what >> isn't going to be forgiven for is the trance he's been lost in, the way he's been unreachable and has neglected the people and places who need him

so if he never finds his way back (from the trance), there's still something to be angry about

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think I’ve seen that interpretation yet. I’ll have to read this angle a few times after my meeting. It’s a fun idea.

[eternal knoll]

but if they never find their way back there's no direct hostilities required, because he's already neautralized

[west trout]

|| There's little evidence for these intelligences being specifically Jjaro, except for the temporal nonsense and the level of advancement. ||

It's my own theory for now, has me excited for where things might go for sure

[sage lark]

I believe its really the IDEArandal and Spht

[west trout]

The reason I doubt it's the S'pht is that we've now got evidence of speech patterns for the S'pht and they're nothing like what we see in these codex entries.

[eternal knoll]

i kinda lean toward it being the spht and OG durandal most thoth merger lol. sort of too much brain to be contained, to much perspective, so he's trapped in a trancelike loop

[sage lark]

we dont have speech patterns for jjaro either

[eternal knoll]

i do agree it doesn't sound like we're used to a spht sounding tho

some chance it's a particular spht who has long been in communication with durandal and has adopted more humanline ways of expressing itself. but it's all very much in question

neither voice seems a match for IDEA Durandal to me, i'm fairly confident in that, but could be wrong

[dreamy hawk]

I also agree. Not as much poetry as I’m used to, but it still the best interpretation in my mind.

[dreamy hawk]

I think someone, Pfhorrest? suggested that it sounds like DuranDEA maybe coming out of a stupor; too much eating his own data.

[eternal knoll]

the part where >> says "i only just considered you, i'm glad you're not here, you'd be ashamed" feels like OG durandal having a thought about IDEA durandal

[dreamy hawk]

I originally thought it was ThothDurandal and DuranDEA but i like the S’pht idea.

I feel like it reads better with that, but that’s so subjective.

[eternal knoll]

yea. to be clear i don't think the "you" in those sentences is >>>

seems to have little to no awareness of acknowledgement of anything >>> is saying to them

[dreamy hawk]

Agreed. I’m certain they’re not talking to one another despite it being labeled a dialogue.

[west trout]

There's other bits too that might be relevant:

|| ">>>" mentions that both of the voices owners at some point had a duty of "Observation" There are hints that these intelligences might have been able to witness/affect multiple realities/timelines, which would potentially fit with Jjaro level of tech. I advise trying to read the entries from this point of view; a lot of stuff in it starts to actually make a lot of sense ||

[dreamy hawk]

S’pht also observe, in a way. But there are a lot of likes that I feel like can go a few way.

[eternal knoll]

i do think >>> is speaking to >> though. seemingly frustrated by their inability to stop speaking to themselves

[dreamy hawk]

When I reread later I’ll read it this way. I could see that.

[west trout]

I get the distinct feeling that the two are each talking at the lack of the other, having been separated by the actions of >>

[eternal knoll]

that'd be the thing they might or might not find their way "through," this looping trance

"are you afraid or consumed by wonder?"

it all feels appropriate for what you'd say to someone unable to snap out of a pseudo-religious trance

[dreamy hawk]

It’s actually Robert Blake talking to Leela.

[eternal knoll]

i'll definitely add it to my mental list of possible interpretations...

[west trout]

I'm extremely interested in knowing what the || Great Declination || is, and also who/what || Rree' and Ssava' and The Rectory and the many'd arms and eyes and snarled fang of the Ttaana'basa || are

[eternal knoll]

that's the one bit where >>> sounds sphtish

[visual lynx]

implicitly all of Marathon 1's multiplayer maps are set on the Marathon or else maybe the Pfhor ship (if there are any Pfhor-textured multiplayer maps, and I'm not sure that there are)

[dreamy hawk]

You and I both. But that’s where I lean towards it being a S’pht the most. Those are some S’phty words imo.

[west trout]

I wondered that, but couldn't find anything matching in any existing S'pht. And while there are surface similarities, it's worth remembering that the S'pht were uplifted from non-sentience by the Jjaro directly. They would likely have culture/language norms similar to the Jjaro.

[earnest hatch]

Sound like S’pht or S’pht clans. Although I don’t remember what the names were in the original games.

[eternal knoll]

what most sells >> as OG durandal to me is that he sounds remorseful about his quest for ascension, wishing to return to his old life

[pliant elm]

The theory is very simple, someone told the new writter that the Wrk is based on an Eldritch so the new writter just wrote something quick stolen from Lovecraft, hence the halucinations, the contamiation and the mushrooms.

I'd like ro believe someone would actually try to write an original story, but they just blatantly decided to turn this into a stolen Lovecraft in space because, meme writting.

[visual lynx]

they're not S'pht clan names, but they do sound like S'pht'ish words

the clans are S'pht'Lhar, S'pht'Hra, S'pht'Nma, S'pht'Kah, S'pht'Vir, S'pht'Yra, S'pht'Val, S'pht'Shr, S'pht'Mnr, S'pht'Yor, and S'pht'Kr.

[eternal knoll]

i don't think this part holds up as well if it's IDEA durandal

[minor helm]

@visual lynx I checked through the wiki, the map packs on xbox have maps from 1 and infinity. Including textured ones set on the Marathon. So I was able to find out

[west trout]

nah, Bungie's internal writing team is by far and away one of their biggest assets and best talents IMO. And the consultants they brought in also don't write simple stuff. I reckon you're way off the mark with this tbh

[pliant elm]

Plagerized artwork. Plagerized story. Plagerized game mechanics.

For a game that innovated with dual-wielding and mouse controls its sad to see what Bungie has turned into.

[west trout]

ah, ok. Bye!

[sage lark]

fox you make it too obvious

try harder

[pliant elm]

There's nothing to try. Its just reality.

Copied artwork from an artist.

Copied story from classic drama.

[latent python]

I was going to tell you not to feed but you figured it out

[earnest hatch]

Lol. I was so angry when George Lucas plagiarized the story of Star Wars when he wrote the Empire Strikes back.

[pliant elm]

Copied game mechanics from pretty much amy other game.

[west trout]

they got one chance; I had seen their earlier posts.

[latent python]

I respect the one chance

[eternal knoll]

this is a small point but ive never heard bungie be accused of innovating mouse gameplay before. huh? when?

[west trout]

Marathon!

[latent python]

Marathon 1 was...sort of the first mouse look FPS

[earnest hatch]

It didn’t work well, but it sort of did work.

[eternal knoll]

huh really. i forget this. doom didn't have similar implementation at the time?

[pliant elm]

No.

[latent python]

In that it released the same day as another mouse look FPS

[earnest hatch]

System Shock?

[minor helm]

Wasn't it also the first to have free look in both directions?

[eternal knoll]

i was always a keyboard only person with the old boomer shooters and still play them that way when i go back to em lol

[eternal shell]

doom didnt have the ability to look up and down but sideways looking could be done with the mouse

up and down, well you had to rely on the autoaim

[eternal knoll]

ah yes true true

[minor helm]

@eternal knoll Marathon 2 on Xbox is so odd to play

[pliant elm]

Bungie was way ahead of its time also in terms of game balancing for online multiplayer.

[minor helm]

It's great but awkward

[pliant elm]

All weapons had a purpose.

[minor helm]

@pliant elm Halo 2 being the biggest example

[dreamy hawk]

Try on iOS.

[minor helm]

We wouldn't have games like MW2 without Halo 2. Literally revolutionized online console gaming

[latent python]

I think it was called Heretic

[eternal shell]

yeah heretic had looking up and down

[pliant elm]

People might cry nowadays that knife is too powerful but its rare the game where the melee knife actually has a viable purpose.

[eternal shell]

really clumsy to do if you were keyboard only but it was there

(page up and page down by default)

[eternal knoll]

i think maybe they could adjust the lunge on the knife but i don't hate it bein a great equalizer of sorts.

[dreamy hawk]

This conversation is making me feel young. That’s a rare treat.

[pliant elm]

But the story for this one, was just meme. It was stappled together to match their product vision rather than in reverse.

[latent python]

There's likely a bunch of "um actually" to the first mouse look FPS claim, but it was certainly on the leading edge

[eternal knoll]

nah man they got the caves of qud ppl doin narrative preproduction on this... i was a little turned off the some of the surface writing at first but the deeper you dig into this story, they put a lot of care and thought into it

[minor helm]

@latent python kinda like how RE4 is often credited with the Over The Shoulder camera

[latent python]

Qud!

[pliant elm]

I can understand that it is not bad for the average user, for me its terrible/predictable/unimmersive.

[eternal knoll]

is the cosmic horror angle on the colony the most original thing? nah. was a megalomaniacal AI the most original thing back in the day? also nah

it's all in the execution

and the execution is there

[pliant elm]

No. These were all taken from the classics too.

[latent python]

In that I am regularly executed by assassin shells

[zenith nest]

Are you a writer or creative of some kind? I'm just wondering what your reference is and why you find it to not appeal to you

[west trout]

live and drink, friend!

[latent python]

Don't feed the troll

[visual lynx]

the omniscient narrator of the M2 epilogue also speaks of it

[latent python]

Swap spit?

[west trout]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message yep, I mentioned that. MI kind of makes it all moot xD

[zenith nest]

nah, go kiss in the general channel

[sage lark]

Swap spht

[visual lynx]

M2 actually

[west trout]

of course, silly me; it's part of the S'pht homeworld plot, after all. Oops!

[robust vale]

me running between cryo and whatever the next map with a sph't in it is gonna be to see which one's scarier

[minor helm]

I wanna see the lore behind how the WSTR, the Snipers, and the Ares RG can take the same round types (other than science and the fact that it's the future lol)

Bro I'd love a map on the Marathons bridge

[eternal shell]

Specialized ammunition for high-damage ballistic weaponry with increased stopping power against hostile Runners.

[sage lark]

eventually

[eternal shell]

it's specialized, that's how

[latent python]

What about the Marathon lava pits

[dreamy hawk]

Specially specialized.

[dreamy hawk]

If we don’t get these I’m going to protest outside the studio.

[latent python]

We should also get a map with a jumping puzzle

[eternal shell]

i'm sad to say i think we may get those pits but the lava will have cooled 😔

the heating bill was just awful

[pliant elm]

It deviates from its originality, literature style and main plot. This one is like a mini 'spin-off' made by someone who didn't really understood the originals and adapted some other fantasy lore because in his research the orginal creator said the universe was tied to Eldritch, but this had been a very very very light reference barely explored in the original series, but they went full-gas with this one. So from a literature standpoint the writter didn't really understand how the original writter presented the universe to the reader.

[sage lark]

we will have to jump on the engine

[dreamy hawk]

You’re no fun. Don’t be a kill joy. 🙁

(❤️)

[minor helm]

@eternal shell well yeah but I mean are there different types of MIPS rounds? Cause that's the only way it would work

[eternal shell]

nah there's one type and it works very well

[sage lark]

you are very good at writing ragebait I will give you that

[eternal shell]

is he

[sage lark]

didnt say it was good rage bait

[minor helm]

I get it's the future its just weird

[twin trout]

why do shotguns and snipers use the same ammo <w<

[latent python]

*writting

[sage lark]

sorry

[twin trout]

the mips look like sniper bullets but they turn into buckshot when used by shotguns

[lunar cove]

I don't think Fox is ragebaiting I think these are genuinely held views

[sage lark]

higher class literary enjoyer cant spell writing

[eternal shell]

the sniper bullets get shattered when fired from the wstr clearly

[twin trout]

he seems like a salty boomer

[minor helm]

@twin trout they kinda look like APFSDS bullets

[twin trout]

x3

[dreamy hawk]

Thirty Hail Marys and fifty hours of community service.

[zenith nest]

I see, I wonder if they plan to touch on some of those points as time goes on. With it being live service, the story can go on in any direction and go over a number of different topics and themes as time goes on. Look at destiny as an example

[minor helm]

There's also a slug converter for the WSTR

[sage lark]

incomprehensible

a live service game has a ......... LIVE STORY???????

[dreamy hawk]

We’ve got all the story already and nothing new will come.

[twin trout]

mhm but for the misriah and the wstr without that mod it's still buckshot <w<

[pliant elm]

It's bait for you since you sadly don't have what it takes to understand quality storywritting.

There's a reason why the new Lord of the Rings movie is produced by Peter Jackson again and not 'some new guy'.

[sage lark]

i do understand story writing but I guess not story writting

[latent python]

I thought you meant Destiny was incomprehensible. Which is true. There's a moon that wasn't even made into a spaceship in it

[zenith nest]

I don't know if they really planned to go super heavy on the lore at the beginning anyway. Remember that we're players who came from earth/mars to gain more info on the marathon, so the perspective is different from the characters who were directly involved in the story at the time of M1-3

[twin trout]

I mean the moon was made into a warren of sorts so it got the colony part :3

[eternal knoll]

when "writting" a story it's important to not "plagerize"

[zenith nest]

I understand that's probably a bit jarring though since the reader/viewer knows what happened during the original games, and we're now looking at that seemingly same world (correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of the original story comes from poorly remembered youtube summaries) through a different lense

[eternal knoll]

the "you are all too unsophisticated to see that this story is shallow and derivative" routine from a fella who can't spell is pretty good

and who seems to think a single writer wrote this...

[latent python]

And that that writer was in marketing

[twin trout]

doubly funny considering he is being shallow in completely ignoring that it's a reboot and that the story is actively being expanded upon

[dreamy hawk]

Sorta? Deimos was just brought along to mine in transit.

[lunar cove]

If I could offer some mild constructive feedback, from a place of genuine support: I think people would be more receptive to your criticism of the new game's narrative if you were less definitive about it and framed it as personally not loving the narrative focus, rather than that the writers are incompetent and the fans aren't smart enough to see it

[pliant elm]

English isnt my main language so I couldnt care less about basic lexical errors compared to the content and logic of an argument. Thats the weakest meme thing you look into when you're out of arguments.

[twin trout]

no I mean in destiny the moon was occupied by the hive

[dreamy hawk]

OHHH

Mea culpa.

[earnest hatch]

Pretty big words for someone who doesn’t understand the story of either games he’s talking about.

[lunar cove]

You catch more flies with honey, and catch more honeys being fly (type shit)

[north plank]

blud just comes in here waffling anyway.

[eternal knoll]

aite mb for makin fun of yr english then. but you're not earning a lot of goodwill here by relying on insults towards those digging into the story yrself

[pliant elm]

I was reading Marathon lore you weren't even alive yet.

[dreamy hawk]

Iirc they claim to have played them over fifty times.

[digital plaza]

Another lore chat drama going on?

[digital plaza]

LOL

[sage lark]

yes

[twin trout]

"another" (reskinned previous drama)

[earnest hatch]

Wow, not even 777 times? Amateur.

[dreamy hawk]

Just the usual blip.

[north plank]

yes.

[sage lark]

like this is obviously a joke but if it isnt its so sad

[dreamy hawk]

The skins are getting cheaper and less original each time.

[earnest hatch]

And apparently not understanding it for just as long.

[pliant elm]

Well I don't really care about people's reception. This is my opinion.

[twin trout]

this fellow loves coming in here to harp on about how he's so old and sagely and that the game of his time is better because this game is new

[zenith nest]

You do come off a bit condescending, so I don't think it's helping in this particular discussion

[dreamy hawk]

Friendly reminder of the existence of the block button for folks. For no reason at all.

[digital plaza]

Reminded me of this #breach-protocol message

[pliant elm]

You're the one who doesn't understand it apparently, lol.

[visual lynx]

you know that Marathon's predecessor Pathways Into Darkness leaned much more heavily into Lovecraftian themes right? and I get the sense that this new Marathon ties more closely in to that than even the classic games, which I think is a welcome change. The new game is set to feature some colorful crystal Artifacts that resemble the colorful Crystal artifacts from Pathways, and I strongly suspect that TCIV is going to turn out to be a prison built by the Jjaro to contain the Dreaming God / W'rkncacnter they extracted from Earth in 1996, and that humanity knew something about that and that's why the Marathon mission was sent to Tau Ceti in the first place (instead of doing something obviously useful like propping up the already-struggling Mars colony). Bringing everything full circle.

[sage lark]

if he could read he would be mad

[dreamy hawk]

So mad.

[robust vale]

can't lie I misread this and thought for a second this was an actual discussion about the skin microtransactions lmao

my ass cannot read

[twin trout]

he is mad regardless, no? x3

[earnest hatch]

I think this shows your level of thinking. You can’t judge my understanding about the story since I haven’t expressed any opinion on it. You’re just saying things to say them.

[dreamy hawk]

I’d be impressed if it could.

[sage lark]

fair enough 😭

[subtle oracle]

oh god hes back

[pliant elm]

Ofcourse it is. Its just too 'in your face' that it became too obvious.

[robust vale]

pfffft

fair enough

[nova ice]

Anyone know how to get into the new cryo room in outpost?

[lunar cove]

That seems counterproductive and needlessly antagonistic but I guess that's your prerogative

[zenith nest]

Hes been here before? lol

[twin trout]

many times!

[north plank]

yeah...

[dreamy hawk]

This is a regular cycle.

Sure as the sun rises. 🫤

[subtle oracle]

he got banned once so he mustve appealed

[robust vale]

also yeah I can't lie I just ignored this dude, you can be willing to have a reasonable discussion about these points but he's clearly not so don't fall for it

[twin trout]

he "doesn't care about what other people think" but comes here and pokes at people so he can waffle on to them

[lunar cove]

All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again