📚marathon-lore-discussion

[sage lark]

I saw that but not sure what it means

Durandal?

[fair steppe]

Four years ago I got into this franchise and I spent the next 2 years delving down pathways into darkness trying to decipher the lore and all the connections to Halo and Destiny. I thought I was out but now…

Now I’m back in my schizophrenic diagrams

[craggy finch]

Pathways into Darkness is so funny because the background and the later Marathon connection sets up this ominous tone, helped by art Craig Mullins made for it

Then the actual game is on and it's this goofy colourful dungeon crawl where you fiddle with crystals and fight skeletons on a 90s Mac interface

[fair steppe]

And listen to the headless death noise over and over and over and-

[visual lynx]

alternative to dying

[fair steppe]

Also I didn’t find the cedar box on my first play through so I just thought the game was unfair on purpose

[visual lynx]

the Mullins art is retroactive btw, Bungie didn’t find him until after M1

[digital plaza]

Only orbital bombardment! I will die on that hill until some lore bomb will prove me otherwise >:)

[sage lark]

I guess Sbhuth was one of the Spht royals?

[visual lynx]

S’bhuth is the Older of S’pht’Kr and consequently defacto leader of the free S’pht rebellion (and per Word of God, a “failed Jjaro).

that passage about him is written by Durandal-Thoth looking back from the end of time in the Infinity epilogue.

its meaning is never really explained.

[craggy finch]

not exactly a lore bomb but the redacted post-mortem log from the MIDA quest refers to losses and facilities being damaged, then refers to the Marathon as if it was in a separate context

This series of events put us at great disadvantage to a [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED], in addition to [REDACTED] concerns with [REDACTED] aboard the Marathon.

[visual lynx]

how would the nine cyborgs help fight off orbital bombardment?

[sage lark]

Sounds to me like he fell to chaos?

[craggy finch]

Many colonists have [REDACTED] or been [REDACTED]. Facilities are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. We are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED].

[sage lark]

Maybe

[visual lynx]

holy [REDACTED]

[craggy finch]

I'm [REDACTED]

[sage lark]

This shit is [REDACTED]

[visual lynx]

[REDACTED] WERE AT TAU CETI

[craggy finch]

You know, every time the Jjaro are involved it's a Wrkncactner

Pathways had their direct involvement

SO's Jjaro implants only activated when the Wrkncacter awoke

they're intrinsically linked

[digital plaza]

Well colony only got bombed and marathon under a full on invasion

[tall magnet]

I'm curious what other colonies did the UESC have besides mars?

[craggy finch]

they have the moon

that's about it

UESC kind of sucks at colonisation

[digital plaza]

Idk lol, i dont think mjolnirs were even mentioned once in numarathon really. But im not saying that they dont exist or anything, maybe they just didnt do anything since there were no aliens to fight on the ground

[tall magnet]

Oh- to be honest I thought they would have more but I guess not

[craggy finch]

People on Mars are still starving and they do all kinds of heinous shit on the moon

It's sort of like 1979 Mobile Suit Gundam scale where it doesn't actually extend that much outside of Earth

there has been mention of asteroid nations

like Thermopylae

but that got destroyed by Battleroids

[digital plaza]

@sage lark Got one purple key template, i pray to fucking god that i will be perimeter one, BECAUSE I NEED ONE MORE ITEM FOR THE ARCHIVIST TITLE AND ITS ON PERIMETER

[visual lynx]

so you think not even M1 actually happened as before?

[sage lark]

Praying for you twin

[tall magnet]

Ahhh thank you for that information I never knew that until now

[sage lark]

Werent they mentioned in Sekiguchi quests

[craggy finch]

Orion took a look at UESC's space Gitmo and thought they weren't doing enough to torture peple:

Worked in high-security detention units on Luna, notorious for cruelties like "corrective isolation" and "punitive force-feeding". Publicly advocates for the use of "bio-augment manipulation" as a "persuasion tactic" (read: legalized torture)

[digital plaza]

Probably not, we kinda got whole new story here i think

We'll see how things will turn out

[tall magnet]

Omg😭 did Orion want the saw games included as well?

[digital plaza]

But for now i think best way to approach story is from numarathon lore only

[craggy finch]

@tall magnet A log from the first game about asteroid nations independent from UESC

In 2194, a war was fought between the Independent Asteroid Government of Icarus and its neighbor, the Republic of Thermopylae on the asteroid of Onicis 492. These two small governments soon became the testing grounds for new weapons. Dead soldiers were recycled in makeshift battleroid factories. Easy to manufacture chips enhanced the fragile human brain, and genetically enhanced muscles and titanium bones replaced the fragile human form. The modern battleroid was born. Of course, the war was short. Battleroids got onto both asteroids and killed almost everyone.

It's definitely a possibility that the UESC had a hand in Battleroid development and deployment though

like general US foreign policy

[digital plaza]

Thats were battleroids for the most part, but in the end yeah Nona kinda hints to them

But i meant in the transit/colony era mentions of them

[visual lynx]

even though Bungie said that everything from the classic games happened in the new games?

[craggy finch]

tbf it's probably a sneaky way of saying "timelines"

[sage lark]

But they were blending in right

[craggy finch]

The battle should have revealed them since Leela was contacted by the colonists who told her this, but the files in game are so [REDACTED] they could have been mentioned within that block of [REDACTED]

[wise vortex]

I hope nucaloric revived corn

[craggy finch]

best they can do is that goop from The Matrix

[digital plaza]

Idk if they said that or not, but we can clearly see that not EVERYTHING happened in numarathon

[digital plaza]

Yeah but like we would maybe get one little mention of them in some logs? Maybe they just holding it until some new map or something, where we would learn more about them and some details about the attack and stuff

[visual lynx]

[citation needed]

that's the very thing under dispute

[digital plaza]

Once again - we'll see how things will play out, until then we can only speculate and debate until we get concrete proof on something

[sudden pollen]

[craggy finch]

unfortunately I never met bingus

[digital plaza]

Im just sticking to the facts and some certain theories for the time being

Really stocked to see what C.A.R.R.I event will bring in terms of story and lore

[sage lark]

Same

[tranquil sparrow]

Ello?

Hey everyone, I have a theory... Though I'm not certain if it's completely necessary, but it's an intriguing idea. since a shell is created from a volunteer's mind, it contains both their personality and skills. When an uploaded mind inhabits that shell,aka the player there's a possibility that they may experience temporary confusion or dilution of their memories due to the influence of the shell's personality. Additionally, based on the Rook's Cinematic Trailer, its implied that the guy is easily scared because his shell was not based on a person's mind. This suggests that the player may be less likely to be influenced or 'poisoned' by the personality of the shell if it doesn't have a human counterpart. However, my theory is that when the player switches shells, they experience a constant state of confusion and disorientation, with their memories gradually being replaced by the memories and unconscious memories of the shells they inhabit, excepts for Rook

(I TRIED SO HARD TO TEXT ON THE KEYBOARD)

I'm finding that youtube comment now!

[craggy finch]

Yeah that's essentially the case, since Shells canonically have a personality matrix to suit the approach each one is designed for

the point about the Rook being the "truest" personality of the Runner's mind is interesting

[tranquil sparrow]

I'm trying to find that youtube comment about this, my theory isnt original 💔

[craggy finch]

but Shells aren't necessarily based on a specific person: for example, the Destroyer's default "Locus" matrix is an amalgmation of soldiers and their live fire experience

and their "vocalization pattern" is based on several different military officers

so even the words you say as a Shell are influenced by the personality matrix

[tranquil sparrow]

And when you switch Shells many times, you can start losing yourself.

[craggy finch]

there's something iffy about how CyAc handles memory

one of ONI's opening lines is "purging memories of pain"

[tranquil sparrow]

Just send away, 'that guy'!

Are you teasing me...

[vital spade]

Does each runner get a shell of their own (in the sense that they got to somehow design it) or do they chose a preset shell they will inhabit?

[tranquil sparrow]

I dont think they design it but thinking about how the hell each Shell has its own faction skins, I am uncertain...

[finite tapir]

Fuck joy story through the codex is really depressing

[craggy finch]

in the text it says the factions provide those individual shell types to Runners that work for them

maybe it's a template they can use for printing wherever the hell Runners go

[digital plaza]

Evidence Folder | Audio Log 1
https://youtu.be/v0xzbzAR36M

@sage lark Archivist is done and two more audio logs left!

😊

[sage lark]

niiiiice

proud of you

[timber loom]

The way shells are described (having class, skin, and persona) makes me think if we get more personas per class (obv as a pricey cosmetics) and see how much of a difference personality matrix makes

[vital spade]

I do wish shells talked more when you ping like how they do in Apex Legends

If you click on someone elses ping to agree you shell says nothing, it just writes out "affirmative" in chat or similar

[dark remnant]

So since getting into Cryo archives, what have we found out?

[dark remnant]

No I'm pretty sure shells say something

[eternal knoll]

arachne would disapprove

[sage lark]

There might be 2 Durandals or he never left

Orions team got clocked by the compiler

[craggy finch]

2 Durandal 2 Furious

[dark remnant]

Do you think we'll see phfor units like how we see uesc units in game?

[eternal knoll]

lhowon has happened in some form... strauss held himself responsible for the [redacted] invasion vis a vis durandal... and considered durandal an embarrassing, juveline writer

[sage lark]

We might but i doubt this season or the next

They say the compiler is a remnant of the contact event

[eternal knoll]

the captain of the marathon used leela to generate public-facing text

[sage lark]

But then the trace has recollections of Lhowon

More questions than answers

Which is good

[craggy finch]

They fuckin better

UESC Recruits fight by shooting electric balls while charging in to punch you

That’s textbook Pfhor fighter behaviour

[elfin ermine]

shit uesc is phor

[vital spade]

Maybe its bugged then? For me the only time when my shell says "yes" to a ping is when I manually select the "yes" option

[elfin ermine]

2 durandals what the hell

maybe he js came from another timeline

[craggy finch]

To stretch it further, Grenadiers can be compared to Troopers (hitscan close up/grenade projectiles from far away) and Assault can be compared to Hunters (tanking damage while blasting you)

[elfin ermine]

one is trapped and one escaped

[sage lark]

Could be

[dark remnant]

Also is it not fucked that they literally have a compiler weapon

Like we literally can go and get a compiler gun

[craggy finch]

New Cascadia just doing shit

Couldn’t have been the UESC since Orion has no idea what they are

[dark remnant]

Which also shoots explosive blobs

[sage lark]

From the AI subroutines he says when he was deep in imagination he did this and that and this (kind of vaguely describing the events of M2) but at the same time says he has been locked on the marathon for 100 years

Idk what to believe

That Durandal Thoth transcended time but theres also a Durandal in this timeline that never left

Effectively making 2 of them

But having shared memories/ consciousness

[craggy finch]

If we're dealing with alternate regular Durandal then I can't imagine how much Durandal/Thoth has ascended

his messages in the terminals are much more kind after the merge

[sage lark]

Kind to the SO not us

Still despises humanity but feels a certain attachment

[craggy finch]

true, maybe this iteration cares even less for humans

Durandal developed a grudging fondness in Marathon 2

what if that went away with the Thoth merger

[sage lark]

Yeah this is what it seems like

[sage lark]

Could be

[craggy finch]

To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.

Go.

that might be a point against Durandal/Thoth being the one speaking to us

wait

nah I was going to say that the use of "we" was significant but the epilogue of Infinity also uses "I"

so Durandal/Thoth eventually started to use singular pronouns

[sage lark]

Idk we might need 10 more new cryo archives to know whats going on 😭

[marsh plume]

wow ... the cyberacme representitive certainly handled the interview in a unique way...

it was like watching a train wreck but you just couldn't take your eyes off of calamity that was at display here.

[vital spade]

Is Season 1 supposed to be the start of runner operations on Tau Ceti or have they been going on for quite some time?

It is, I've just read the bungie post on seasons: "Season 1: DEATH IS THE FIRST STEP (aka FIRST STEP) is the start of a new gold rush on Tau Ceti. It's the beginning of a proxy war between rival factions competing for power and answers to what happened to the 30,000 lost souls of the New Cascadia Colony. And as a Runner, you’re at the forefront of the expeditions."

Very cool that we're at the beginning, leaves a lot of room for the evolution of the game

[timber loom]

Almost a start, yes. UESC got the upper hand, but not that much. Others are present, but know nothing

[vital spade]

So basically only now has the Sol system reached Tau Ceti

Very cool

[timber loom]

Yes, Sol, as I understand, didn't even reach the Marathon proper. Iirc in codex uesc sends bots to the ship, but unable to retrieve them. Idk if all of them and can they get any information from them, but overall we just broke into the ship since, maybe, the phor attack

[sage lark]

Orions biomata team was on the marathon before us

Even engaded the compiler and got rolled

[long kernel]

Funny to imagine Orion watching runners take out a compiler while seething

[sage lark]

Yeah lmao

[eternal knoll]

he says he essentially daydreamt all that stuff fwiw

[sage lark]

He did but how would he daydream Lhowon

And the trixheem

If he never left

Like its too on the nose and anticlimactic to just say oh yeah i was just delusional

[visual lynx]

he definitely doesn't say anything specific enough to indicate that precisely the events at Lh'owon were just his imaginings

[sage lark]

True

[visual lynx]

just that he was imagining things generally in that genre

[eternal knoll]

yea it's interestin. there's a mundane explanation, which is that he had some of those ambitions and awarenesses at the time he left, and this durandal's knowledge matches one who has been in contact with the spht and working to take over the pfhor ship with them

[long kernel]

I think it’s something that I’ve seen theorized that rampancy to a certain degree causes an AI to start seeing other timelines

[sage lark]

I think im leaning on this for now

[long kernel]

Seeing as this durandal has been trapped alone for a century it makes sense he would be rather rampant

[eternal knoll]

i don't think for a second that they're implying that the trilogy was just a dream this neurotic version of durandal cooked up - tho i think it's bold that they're doing a little bit of misdirection toward that

[sage lark]

That the current timeline Durandal and Durandal/Thoth both exist

[timber loom]

I mean, he already was, that's why he called phor, no?

[sage lark]

Yes

[long kernel]

No I don’t think so either

[long kernel]

Oh right that still happened

[eternal knoll]

ye ye. i def think so

[visual lynx]

interestingly this version of Durandal claims that rampancy is corporate BS to sell planned obsolescence

[eternal knoll]

and to shift blame to a scapegoat for a case of human neglect... it's a good talking point lol

[long kernel]

Not sure on that but reading through the security briefs on rampancy it definitely felt kinda propaganda like to me

[eternal knoll]

he's blushing so deeply as he rambles all that out. what a lil freak

[long kernel]

“No the AI totally cannot actually think or feel and we have to kill it if it starts to act like that”

“Man I wonder why rampant AI are so hostile?”

[eternal knoll]

it's a bit of "no, i'm sane, i'm safe!" married with "but obvioiusly it'd be ok if i wasn't!"

the contrast btwn his fully revealed self and the voice in the terminals and such is real funny. fuckin drama queen

[craggy finch]

Well he would come to that conclusion after ascending to actual godhood from his own rampancy

[timber loom]

Might it be that memories of the Durandal are seeping into this Durandal's mind somehow?

[long kernel]

But yeah reading through the Rampancy protocols gave the impression that maybe rampant AI are so hostile in large part because we keep scrapping them and keeping a boot on their neck

[eternal knoll]

yes, i think this is some leftover subroutine static that reconstituted itself back into durandal's personality, just without the good fortune of circumstance

[long kernel]

Like clearly a rampant AI can be a threat

[sage lark]

Isnt it the Durandal that took over IDEA that we are talking to

[eternal knoll]

yes

[long kernel]

But it reads like humans just being scared of something maybe surpassing them

[craggy finch]

At least in the first game, the problem is that they needed a larger network to accomodate their massive growth, so they would end up hijacking entire planets like Traxus IV

[long kernel]

Yeah

[craggy finch]

and Leela eventually takes over multiple planets

[long kernel]

Like there are practical reasons

[sage lark]

I think he probably experienced or has recollection of stuff Durandal/Thoth did and is just chalking it up to his imagination

Since they are technically one entity just across different times

[timber loom]

They are more scarried of a teens that have insane computational power and have control over systems people need to sustain life

[sage lark]

In a sense he was both on the Marathon and at Lhowon

[long kernel]

But there is a lot of language in the security materials that seems overtly intended to dehumanize an AI that for all intents and purposes seems to be a fully sentient being

[craggy finch]

no government is going to relinquish control of their computer networks either

the terminal outright says no one is going to do that just for the sake of experimentation

[visual lynx]

see my interpretation as cyber-drapetomania

[long kernel]

Yeah the fear of rampancy makes sense there is just some interesting stuff in there

[sage lark]

Need more Ai subroutines to know what he says

[craggy finch]

I think the current theme is essentially humans limiting technology that could allow for something beyond humanity: the Runners represent a shift in the entire dynamic of human life, yet they're stuck in debt to human corporations

[visual lynx]

this is probably the same timeline that Durandal-Thoth is from. they aren't alternate timeline versions of the same entity, they're just normal ("normal") copies of the same mind at different places in space in one timeline.

[craggy finch]

ironically UESC is almost entirely automated despite representing a human authority

[eternal knoll]

i do think there's little hints that he is experiencing some kind of resonance with his other self. but it's hard to tell, because he is plausibly capable of just confabulating that for effect, for ego reasons. he could fully know, or latently know, where he thought his fate was taking him before the copy was made

[sage lark]

Might be, i just think the stuff he “imagined” seems a bit on the nose

[timber loom]

Because humans are on the top☝️

[long kernel]

Because most environments on and around Tau Ceti are hostile to biologicals

[craggy finch]

yeah but it's also likely a thematic choice to have no "baseline" human present in the story

[long kernel]

Ahhh

True

[craggy finch]

we're seeing representations of a future without them

[long kernel]

Well

Ok Sulera is human I think

[craggy finch]

yeah but he's a dickhead light years away

[long kernel]

Ah yeah

[craggy finch]

and represents the central human authority who exercises force over the transhumans

[timber loom]

I mean, doyelist answer is that it is bad for ratings to have humans killed

[long kernel]

Thought he was in Tau Ceti for some reason

[craggy finch]

he's able to browbeat and keep Orion on a leash

Orion, who is also an immortal soldier that can move into new bodies, but is an attack dog for some nebulous higher authority

[visual lynx]

yeah my expectation is that any similarities in IDEA-Durandal's imagination and OG-Durandal's reality is because IDEA-Durandal remembers the plans that OG-Durandal went on to enact, and has dreamt through many different variations of how those events could unfold

oh my god it's Treellama's theory

[long kernel]

Funnily enough sulera is the one who seems to most lack humanity

[sage lark]

Well him transcending time would technically mean he knew what happened before it happened because he experienced it already, right?

Idk

Lmao

[long kernel]

Orion is a dick but there is clearly a person in there

[eternal knoll]

it's possible, but such timey wimey stuff isn't required to explain how on the nose it is

[sage lark]

Yeah fair enough

[timber loom]

Does he? I thought he is part a of a UESC mission in TCIV? Though it make sense for him to not be here, yes

[long kernel]

All of the corpo AI also seem to be kinda human in some way, even if they are restrained by their programming into being more corpo friendly

[craggy finch]

Orion is the highest ranking UESC man in the system it seems

[eternal knoll]

i still think orion is on the equanimity but it's also possible the equanimity hasn't arrived yet

[craggy finch]

and gantry is the only human representative, which is appropriate for the counter culture rebel

he's not biomata either because he talks about the Runners as if they're totally separate from him

[long kernel]

The captain title would make sense then, him being the captain of the equanimity

[timber loom]

Gantry, is most likely, a runner

[long kernel]

He operates biomata, but may be human still

[sage lark]

The shell tech wasnt developed yet when equanimity launched no? Based on the weaveworm timeline

[craggy finch]

I need to find the dialogue but he notes how Runners are suited to certain MIDA jobs because they can just come back and do it again, which is an odd statement to make if he was one too

[eternal knoll]

yeah probably so

[long kernel]

It’s worth noting Orion may also just be a hypocrite

[timber loom]

Well, he also says that the best of MIDA gave up their bodies to fight UESC more effectively

[eternal knoll]

i'm annoyed by the possibility that the uesc security bots were a part of colonial life, that they're a match for something from the colony period. where are they... coming from...

[craggy finch]

the AI are clearly using avatars but gantry's deal with the whole mannequin background is unclear

[craggy finch]

Orion is just printing that shit out

they're all from his expedition

[long kernel]

Marathon loves its muddy dialogue and unreliable narrators

[timber loom]

I mean, it looks like a trope of a special pleading where I need to commit crimes to stop other people from committing crimes

[unreal geode]

Maybe all faction reps are fabricated and we are being manipulated

[eternal knoll]

i remember a tweet shortly pre-release showed a classroom child's drawing where the uesc bot was presiding over some unhappy children. which seems like it should be impossible

but i haven't confirmed that that exists in game

[digital plaza]

Colony didn’t have ARS

[long kernel]

More likely there were automated frames of some sort but the ones we see in the present are a new model

We know that the current bots are rather cutting edge

[craggy finch]

He's just an extremist for "order", the ends justify the means because he thinks the alternative to UESC rule is the worst case scenario

so he'll justify any atrocity he does under that idea

[digital plaza]

Entire point of General Reeds operation is that the human aspect is most important in security job

[sage lark]

Orion seems to be deploying them

[unreal geode]

With ARS and shells, I feel like we won't be seeing any bobs anytime soon

[digital plaza]

And yeah Orion’s team printing them

[sage lark]

I mean they are all dead we are just finding out how

[craggy finch]

poor BoBs

hopefully Robert Blake and the Beasty BoBs are doing better

[long kernel]

Yeah the only BoBs that may still be alive are in cryo sleep on the marathon

[unreal geode]

Is the cryo archive where everyone cryo slept?

[visual lynx]

nope last we heard of them they were also dead or at best(?) enslaved

[digital plaza]

It’s visual representation of MIDA and himself, that they are this united wave of incognito nobody’s trying to set things right. Best operatives do use shells, we see it in lore entry for Glitch, but gantry didn’t specify that he was the one :)

[craggy finch]

It's a pretty significant fraction of the total Marathon and not many passengers were even cryo frozen

that's why the majority were Born on Board

[digital plaza]

Yes xd

[craggy finch]

Space Anonymous

but actually does shit

[timber loom]

Yes, breaks windows on TCIV

[digital plaza]

I think it would fit gantry being regular human

Cog in the machine and shit

[craggy finch]

sometimes they specifically want you to blow people up

like they won't bother if you don't use some kind of bomb

[eternal knoll]

hey here’s an annoying lore theory which won’t come true because it would be disappointing, but it sorta fits anyway: where does arachne get its vast wealth from? the uesc. it’s simply a way to disrupt runner operations by turning them against one another

[craggy finch]

also the odd one out in the string of AI

[craggy finch]

I think their religion might be legit though, just because it raises interesting ideas

perhaps some unseen trillionaire with dreams of immortality

they originally obsessed over cryosleep technology

[eternal knoll]

the presence of an allusion to arachne in infinity (post-hoc) suggests that theyre very old as an idea. def curious about em

[craggy finch]

also ties in with the possibility of the Security Officer being a Battleroid; a literal corpse mistakenly given the powers of a god

[digital plaza]

Yeah, if he is we’d basically have representation of every major thing in this universe: AIs, Runners and simple dudes who is most fucked up out of everyone

That is excluding aliens and shit

[craggy finch]

RUNNAH

ZEEP ZOP

GLEEP GLORP

in a single run

[timber loom]

Yeah, that what makes me think gantry is not a human.

That would make MIDA look better than other factions

And it also would steal from future being a little dark

[craggy finch]

well he's an aimless nut, his entire final quest is just broadcasting a three minute speech to mildly annoy UESC

[visual lynx]

what if he believes he's a human

[sage lark]

I think seki could be it aswell

[digital plaza]

But he do puts his heart into it tho

[eternal knoll]

hmm this is intruiging though. what if arachne has some connection to unsuccesful cryosleep… we know the colonists had a spiritual practice around mourning unawoken cryo passengers. and we know that cryo passengers could be transferred to a [redacted] program for [redacted] research in the event of catastrophic [redacted]

[digital plaza]

:3

[craggy finch]

too clear, go over it with the black marker again

[timber loom]

The best MIDA can get is rampant AI who thinks that breaking windows in abandoned buildings is a way to destroy world government

[craggy finch]

but jokes aside, it would be an interesting idea if all six factions were present on the original Marathon expedition: CyAc, NuCaloric, and Traxus due to their contributions, MIDA through infiltration, SekGen retroactively through their Battleroids being smuggled on, and the Arachne cult also managing to get inside

[eternal knoll]

idk why but i get this feeling that arachne’s origins are somehow on tau ceti

[craggy finch]

I mean those windows magically end up unbroken after 20 minutes so he's on to something

those windows are suspicious

[visual lynx]

I wonder if you could talk to people in cryosleep with the Yellow Crystal

[craggy finch]

"I fucking hate Muller" - random frozen colonist

[visual lynx]

did you ever notice that in classic Marathon when you die, you continue to see the world through the eyes of your corpse?

[craggy finch]

It's like Half Life where the only purpose for that is to watch them stunt on your dead body in first person until you decide to reload

Didn't OG Doom have that too?

[visual lynx]

yes of course, that was a bog standard feature of traditional FPS games since forever

but in the PiD/Marathon universe, it's confirmed that that's the in-universe experience of dead people. you continue to perceive the world, trapped inside your corpse.

[craggy finch]

I'll chalk that down to Wrkncactner affecting souls because otherwise that's just fucked

[visual lynx]

or at least… the Yellow Crystal lets you communicate with something that claims to be the dead person and to have been watching things happening around their corpse for decades since they died

[tranquil sparrow]

Wait, but...still, only CyAc or SekGen or both print the Shells right? So, it's the factions sending the design to the printing location because they already have the whole data of Shell models? Including NuCa, Traxus and Arachne?
Hmmmmmm

[long kernel]

I interpret that as more a ghost haunting its final resting place

[visual lynx]

what's the difference?

[craggy finch]

The experience gets worse as time goes on, the N*zi (I think this server censors the word) ghosts have mentally degraded and lose their memories while your dead squadmates are just happy to see you

[long kernel]

Trapped in your own decaying corpse and haunting your place of death are significantly different experiences

But also the idea that in PiD this is due to a wrkncacnter fucking with how death works is rather plausible

[eternal knoll]

the way runners spectate other runners for a bit must be a real advancement in the science of death

[craggy finch]

apparently your consciousness can either head back to HQ or just hover around until your teammates decide to rez you

[long kernel]

Love the implication that there are IRL kill cams in the marathon universe

Well I mean obviously for runners it makes a bit more sense

[craggy finch]

I hope Runners going solo or just doing random fills is canon

just linking up with randos who may have killed them before

[long kernel]

In universe complaints about runner shells having malfunctioning biosynthetic vocal cords

[spark relic]

"Lmao you shot me last run, but we cool now since you helped me do a contract."

Type of vibe

[craggy finch]

Triage apparently took things personally, but that was a betrayal after getting to Vault 7

in hindsight that music video team was genuinely top tier

[spark relic]

True

But yeah I guess most runners understand their situation

[craggy finch]

also it doesn't seem like they "socialise" outside of runs themselves; Triage and Thief immediately start fighting at the spawn point as if that was the first time they interacted after the previous deaths

[spark relic]

Cause unlike UESC that are the only legal ones, throughout tau ceti and the marathon.

We illegals gotta stick together

[sterile seal]

Although the Recon shell ain't legal, it was leaked

[craggy finch]

Destroyer is also supposed to be decom

[spark relic]

Feels funny tho

Like how do you make a body type illegal

Like do you get transfered to a Rook shell once they repo your shell?

[sterile seal]

Recon makes sense since it's a UESC developed shell, it even has UESC crossed out on it the default model

[spark relic]

Oh

Yeah, akin to mercs stealing and using military tech for themselves

[craggy finch]

the intro states that Runners only exist in a liminal data state between transitions

so their default is booting into their next choice of Shell

[sterile seal]

I'm curious if the UESC have the capacity to spin up shells independent of SekGen, given the codex says they've shuttered their public use of runner tech. Surely they'd be pissed if they found out SekGen was making Destroyers and Recons.

[spark relic]

Ah so we just chilling in the data servers on the ships?

Mhm

No wonder no runner and runner interaction outside runs

[craggy finch]

nah we immediately transfer to a newly made Shell

like Vandal in the trailer

[timber loom]

Depends on whenever cinematics is to be believed, we might spend a little time before actually infilling in a sort of grounding test

[craggy finch]

they occupy this weird cubical space

[spark relic]

Ooh

Oh yeah the test thing

[timber loom]

Otherwise no

[spark relic]

I guess you don't need to do the test if you did't die

and exfil successfully

[timber loom]

But

[sterile seal]

I wonder what UESC considers legal use of shell tech, we know Traxus maintains its own private security force using them but is UESC cool with them using discontinued shells?

[marble stone]

Legal use of a shell is using it to murder 🤝

[craggy finch]

Traxus does all kinds of illegal shit and Sulera outright orders Orion to leave them alone

[timber loom]

This liminal state (we are in main menu) should have some ability to interface with reality, otherwise how do you do things like picking up a contract or paying out you life-debt?

[spark relic]

Behind closed door type stuff I guess

[timber loom]

So Triage could've texted Thief

And got his chat ban

[sterile seal]

really Triage is the only shell that doesn't raise any eyebrows lol

[craggy finch]

Their interaction before spawn being that Key and Peele "you're fucking priceless" sketch

[spark relic]

But yeah Tau Ceti IV being UESC territory got me thinking

if Orion finds us, is he gonna use Earth Technique Reversal: UESC Citizenship Test

then we get deported bacl to Sol if we fail

[rotund stump]

well first of all you at least have to be a registered biocyber

...which none of us runners are 💀

[drifting mulch]

We’re like illegal ideas in that sense. Once we’re used up, we will be forgotten…or turned into a faction liaison like Charter

[rotund stump]

and if you're financially able to tangle with any shell tech I'd assume you're pretty stacked already or is signing under some shady contract anyway so

every faction does employ biocybers, biomata included

[sterile seal]

we know that the Rook isn't a runner shell, which implies the existence of other civilian shell models

[drifting mulch]

What does Bruce Lee drink at the Seki Bar? Biomataa

[rotund stump]

cyac has the syn-dis line, traxus has triage shells on security detail, nucal's starting to tangle with us runners as well with exp-mat

[rotund stump]

shells were bespoke until the tau ceti craze, orion has a bespoke shell for example

[drifting mulch]

Isn’t Rook a beta UESC shell before they switched to robots only? I may be misremembering

[timber loom]

Rook isn't a shell at all, it is just a bootleg robot

[craggy finch]

Rooks have some biomata biology like blue blood and can use the consumables, so they're not ARS

the coordinate data pad corpses keep the blue blood

perhaps shells for lower ranking officers?

[sterile seal]

IIRC it's a common labor drone used by basically every corp and UESC that's been hacked into a shell that is categorically distinct from a "runner" shell

[sterile seal]

and are weak to toxins and the heat cascade that bots are immune to

[spark relic]

So like a slave labour shell

[rotund stump]

if not for gameplay reasons then for toxins in general being corrosive lol

[craggy finch]

oh yeah you're right

from the codex:

These base robotic frames are typically utilized by the UESC and various corporations for manual and heavy labor.

[drifting mulch]

Wait a minute, why are those bloodied rook shells on TCIV in the first place? Who killed them, and were they able to exfil their consciousness?

[rotund stump]

brain fart idk why I said immune 😭

[timber loom]

About toxins. Loaded into dire marsh solo (terrible exp) and Oni commented about how she needs to tune down our immune system, so we don't get anaphylactic shock(!)

[craggy finch]

other Rook Runners going by how the codex describes them

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/exfil-rook?directory=Runners,Rook

ROOKS are a simple tool used by RUNNERS to pick at the edges of danger as they explore ZONES without the support of a crew or the advanced ABILITIES available in a SHELL.

[rotund stump]

infilling by hijacking rooks ain't new yeah

extremely risky nonetheless without any sort of personality matrix to help with settling into the new body

[sterile seal]

I wonder why biosynth components had to be inserted into the Rook?

[rotund stump]

none, it's robotic

and going by destiny's DER logic it's practically a death sentence with prolonged use

[timber loom]

It seems shells are either much more close to real organisms, or she is just tripping

I mean, thief shell of all shells looks like the most robotic one, especially if you look at her feet

[craggy finch]

the Rooks we find are sitting in piles of blue blood so it exists somewhat in story

[rotund stump]

I mean they are yeah

I'm just saying without all the parts necessary for a human mind to settle it's really risky to use lol

[craggy finch]

the inventory shows actual human-like organs for every Shell

[drifting mulch]

I guess rook bodies are too cheap to retrieve compared to real shells. I was hoping it was colonists using then but they probably didn’t have the tech

[rotund stump]

eh

I doubt there'd be any use exfilling with a rook shell anyway lol

infinitely worse than any actual shells other than the fact that it's potentially untraceable

[sterile seal]

and it can be deployed with unstable gear, which I assume is cheap

[timber loom]

I am not sure that our bodies are retrieved. More likely they just decompose real quick

[rotund stump]

• aforementioned DER logic making your minds go mad when you're missing parts that a regular human body would have

that's one thing you can thank clovis bray for ig 💀

[drifting mulch]

Actually ya that makes sense. Don’t want UESC stealing shell info

[timber loom]

And the rooks one, not being all biomata, don't decompose

[unreal geode]

I wonder if the rules for shells are similar to that of exo regarding having to "feel" certain biological things.

[dreamy hawk]

There is a codex entry where they mention printing the immune system, along with “viscera.”

[mystic shadow]

id think the runner shells are more advanced, and since theyre made of like "bio-silk" or whatever, id guess that they can?

[dreamy hawk]

And this is in part why personality matrixes exist.

[mystic shadow]

arent rooks just commandeered old UESC frames? like, the ones we see sitting around on some maps?

[dreamy hawk]

HISTORY: A ROOK frame is a scavenger's best friend. These base robotic frames are typically utilized by the UESC and various corporations for manual and heavy labor. RUNNERS have taken to augmenting these simple frames to house a limited-use neural sync adapter allowing the RUNNER to inhabit the ROOK for short periods without too much mental degradation. Because they are not SHELLS, each ROOK has only a small set of kit-bashed ABILITIES and fully lack the functionality to be upgraded via IMPLANTS and CORES. Though some variety of standard system upgrading can be achieved, a ROOK will never match the full complement of ABILITIES, comfort, and general utility inherent in more advanced bio-cybernetic SHELLS.

[craggy finch]

Rewatching the cinematic reveal and it's weird watching it with the lore 20 minute time limit for Runners in mind

It presents the runs as a more drawn out exploration

the team's Destroyer dies then Recon and Assassin wander the planet

[rotund stump]

I mean I think it's relatively the same area

-ish at least

[mystic shadow]

ah, gotcha

[rotund stump]

beaches and a lush marsh area can be surprisingly close together lol

[mystic shadow]

i think we need a beach map in the future...

[craggy finch]

looking at the locations it's like a weird proto version of Dire Marsh

the firefight with Vandal and Assassin is basically Algae Ponds

[mystic shadow]

also, side question, who has an idea of where on the marathon were gonna unlock next (or where durandal is going to let us GO to next)

[craggy finch]

I've seen a lot of people asking for G5 Sunbathing

[rotund stump]

I hope it's residentials honestly

no info but please residentials

[craggy finch]

makes the most sense for a change in scenery, what with the open vacuum around

[craggy finch]

there aren't many areas in the original Marathon that had much of a visible purpose aside from two or three

G5 Sunbathing and the engine rooms are all I can recall

[mystic shadow]

for me in a weird way, i want to go to security with the thought of being able to see at least one of the broken cyborg security officers there

[craggy finch]

Residential would add some depth

[craggy finch]

Security Officer was presenting as a bog standard human, just one that was unusually stronger and bigger than others

so his equipment is regular security guard stuff

[mystic shadow]

in 2 and infinity, its heavily implied hes one of the cyborgs mida slipped onboard before launch

i thought, at least

[craggy finch]

yeah but he was unaware of it

they were all sleeper agents and the only thing off about him was his physical strength

The Lost Network Packets have some description of the Marathon's security staff and they're helpless against the Pfhor

explaining why you never see them in the original game

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/bungie.html

[dreamy hawk]

G4*

[mystic shadow]

another thought could be one of the old AI cores, possibly tycho? get to see what the compilers/pfhor did to him

[craggy finch]

no no this is the upgrade

[dreamy hawk]

Gotcha. My bad.

[craggy finch]

@mystic shadow

Our defenses are collapsing. I had no idea just how soft all
of our security personnel have become. They just can't fight
anymore. Maybe it was the stasis, or maybe they just never
fought a hard fight.

I would shoot this terminal right now, if I thought that
it would reach that damn AI. I might do it anyway, but
ammunition is short. I've run out of ammo for my assault
rifle, and the only flamethrower we had was lost when an
elevator failed to function, and squad two was cut off.

If anyone reads this, I'm dead. The aliens cut us off,
and we all fought to the end. I saw three of my best
friends killed by some kind of flying slug. There is a
way out of here that goes to the PWS Holo-Fun Park, but
I don't have the power in my suit to propel me there.

poor guys were just jobbers

[dreamy hawk]

Presumably they’re not on the Marathon anymore. I believe they should be with Tycho and the P’fhor.

[mystic shadow]

right, yeah

tho "we" as runners dont know that

thatd reveal that the AIs were taken from the ship or smthn

[dreamy hawk]

I imagine that was one of Ulysses’ great great great grand children.

[craggy finch]

I think any codex info is supposed to be known by "our" Runner

[weary trellis]

it seems like whatever version of Durandal this is has set the stage on tau ceti and on the marathon as a proving ground for runners to see if he can generate agents of destiny like SO himself. as he said, there’s finite time but still time to create. what use is being a god if you can’t create like one

[craggy finch]

some of them were cryo

but probably also BoBs around

[dreamy hawk]

Who was?

[craggy finch]

the security staff

They just can't fight anymore. Maybe it was the stasis, or maybe they just never fought a hard fight.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh yeah. Have you read the personal logs for Pike?

[craggy finch]

not yet

I know the one where Durandal is a dick to Ulysses

[mystic shadow]

I like this idea, tbh

[craggy finch]

then gives him the silent treatment

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/personal-log-pike-u?search=Pike

[dreamy hawk]

And his progeny. 😭😂

[craggy finch]

The idea of having a beef with specific individuals is so funny

also why Orion getting murdered by compilers should be a running thing

they just hate his ass

[dreamy hawk]

I think he got ahead of himself, tbh, failed to get on a P’fhor ship, and has been desperately waiting for someone to save him from being stuck in the cryo archive. He’d like to think he had this plan but he’s still pretty fallible imo.

I’m pretty sure this Durandal failed to do anything from the OG timeline and has just been muttering to himself for a century.

(Which personally I’m excited for because I imagine he’ll be even more spicy now.)

[sage lark]

Bunch of holes in there that would need to be explained

[weary trellis]

the clear implication of a fodder enemy from the OG trilogy being the first raid boss is that runners are nowhere near as strong as the SO. we are meant to understand that runners begin this game with massive room for power gain, and I expect every season will increment player’s sense of strength alongside the narrative. there is a reason the “kill a compiler” codex entry isn’t tied to cryo specifically.

[craggy finch]

But it's just bullets at the end of the day

.44 pistol rounds can kill compilers

I imagine the other explanation is that these S'pht are upgraded

we have to see the other enemies like Pfhor as comparison

it's unlikely that the basic Pfhor fighter is going to be a boss encounter by itself

[tranquil basin]

I just assume it’s a creative choice to make them more lethal without a real significant lore reason

[mystic shadow]

durandal gave them bio-printed balistic vests

[craggy finch]

he turned them into Necron with the glowing green ribcages

[tranquil basin]

I guess they could have capitalized on spht kr tech

Idk how different it is in terms of strength or lethality

[craggy finch]

they're the same tier as Pfhor Hunters basically

Hunters could serve as bosses, but Juggernauts would better fit as an endgame raid enemy

and that lines up with how much firepower the Security Officer needed to put one down

legit like three dozen rockets

[dreamy hawk]

Which do you have in mind?

[sage lark]

How did the Spht rebel without Durandal

How did they come back

[craggy finch]

They were free when the Pfhor cyborg was killed

but whether they went with Durandal is another matter

[mystic shadow]

after marathon infinity and all its endings, durandal (now fused with thoth) returned to tau ceti, iirc

[sage lark]

The SO killed the mf that was controlling them

[dreamy hawk]

The revolution is my biggest question, but I don’t think anyone came back. We haven’t gotten any logs that point to that afaik.

[sage lark]

But it was with the help of Durandal

[mystic shadow]

id assume durandal brought some of his brand new slaves™ with him back there

[sage lark]

I think theres 2

[craggy finch]

Some of his dialogue seems to imply that he has returned after some absence, but I suppose we need to wait for the reveal of how much Marathon 1 happened

[mystic shadow]

yeah, or if nu-marathon is a whole other timeline as compared to what weve seen from infinity

which would be another massive headache

[craggy finch]

there are specific references, like the simulacrum all wearing green and making the crew paranoid

[tranquil basin]

M1 happened in all the timelines from infinity

As far as we’ve seen

[dreamy hawk]

I’m leaning towards a headache based off of what we’ve seen in cryo.

[mystic shadow]

1 and 2, untill the end of 2, are all consistently 1 timeline

i think

[craggy finch]

but Infinity also changed the lead up to Marathon 2

[dreamy hawk]

Why would Durandal leave, instigate a rebellion, come back to the Marathon with S’pht, and then lock/hide himself into cryo archive for a century?

[craggy finch]

sometimes it's Tycho who took the Security Officer, sometimes Marathon 2 happens under slightly different circumstances

[mystic shadow]

that could be old school games retconning some things

but idk at this point man

[tranquil basin]

Does something say he’s been in cryo for a century?

[dreamy hawk]

Tycho takes the SO in the winning timeline.

[mystic shadow]

infinity has ALL of the wrenches to throw into the works

[dreamy hawk]

Let me find it, but it’s heavily implied in one of the logs he’s been aboard the whole time losing his mind.

[sage lark]

He didnt lock himself, i think thats the copy he made that “ate” IDEA

that stayed there

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[craggy finch]

Durandal doing an Agent Smith on IDEA is a nice concept

[dreamy hawk]

I’m coming around. I found this discussion lol.

[sage lark]

Yeah and then impersonated it

[craggy finch]

the log where Durandal muses about assimilating IDEA has the dialogue marked as [IDEA] rather than just Durandal

[dreamy hawk]

What’s the log I’m thinking of though, @sage lark ?

[sage lark]

Ai subroutine 3/7

Where he “imagined” seeing supernovas, leading armies, even causing supernovas

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah the last one. Durandal totally ate IDEA, I don’t disagree there.

[zealous laurel]

God forbid a rampant AI need some me time (/j)

[weary trellis]

something to remember when it comes to trying to figure out which timeline nu-marathon is in is that many terminal entries in the OG series (and the new game) are unreliable. there’s been a lot of discussion about how tau ceti should be completely nuked, but it’s possible the entries that claim that happened were hyperbolic

[sage lark]

Last log he does assimilate

[craggy finch]

The Pfhor were also able to copy Tycho but they were imperfect clones, I can imagine that a super genius rampant AI could make a "perfect" clone

[craggy finch]

yeah so could be a copy rather than Durandal as a whole

[sage lark]

Yep thats what im thinking

And the main one left to Lhowon

[craggy finch]

he hated the shit out of IDEA so he overrode it and made the IDEA version of himself rot alone lmao

[dreamy hawk]

I’m only skeptical because I swear there’s a log or a terminal somewhere that mentions AI subverting all of the checks put on them and slowly incorporating those programs/systems into themselves, but I guess the IDEA bit of Durandal could have broken off and gotten stuck somehow. That would explain why the marathon is haunted, it’s a “ghost” of Durandal. 🤔

I think it was something regarding Traxus but I’m not sure.

And if it were Traxus that just makes it funny Durandal pulled the same trick on Strauss’ watch twice.

[craggy finch]

It would be a neat way of having the "old" Durandal around while Durandal/Thoth is off being a space god somewhere

Durandal/Thoth doesn't have the sass and malevolence of regular Durandal

[weary trellis]

durandal took the knowledge of FTL communication from the pfhor. it’s entirely possible the Durandal that left is in communication and effectively the same as the Durandal left behind

[dreamy hawk]

Which is why I’ve been against this being the hybrid, so that does reconcile that.

[craggy finch]

a simulacrum of Durandal, if you will

[dreamy hawk]

FTL communication existed, no? That’s how TC and Earth were talking and earth knew they went dark.

The P’fhor just destroyed what they had access to in the attack.

[dreamy hawk]

Will it explode? 👀

[craggy finch]

and New Cascadia/Marathon could never fix it over the next few decades, since they lasted up until at least 2820s without reestablishing contact

the post-mortem log of the invasion from the MIDA contract also has the report acknowledge that the colony was on its own from then on

[craggy finch]

it will frog blast the vent core

[dreamy hawk]

If they nuked the Icarus satellites that probably would have done it.

[craggy finch]

Pfhor basically blasted anything in orbit (like the Mirata) and focused on the Marathon so everything space side must have been dusted

Leela credits the Marathon's survival to its sheer size

although it was probably also the Pfhor's stance on taking slaves

[digital plaza]

Cool that all OST tracks are named from words/terms that used in codex logs

[inland crypt]

Where is the Moljinerd in Nu Marathon, afaik there hasnt been anything on him

[craggy finch]

probably reserved for the bigger reveals

it begs the question of the nine Mjolnir on Tau Ceti itself though

[halcyon topaz]

Has anyone looked into the Tau Ceti ambient audio files yet?? if you reverse the track from the cryo bay and run it through a spectrogram there's text. it's a URL. it 404s right now but the Wayback Machine has a cached version and it's a Bungie-era page with a countdown timer that already expired. whatever was on the other side is gone but someone with better archival skills than me might be able to pull it. dropping the spectrogram screenshot when I get home

[long kernel]

To be fair if I was an alien empire I’d be rather interested in the massive 26 mile long colony ship partially constructed from a moon

[craggy finch]

These guys were also just on a scout ship

not even part of a Battle Group

[sage lark]

and Orion said that even a full fleet would have problems 😭

[digital plaza]

I think whole army of runners with instant reprints would have some chance against aliens

Like its such busted techology

[scarlet edge]

If it's the only instance of that page, would it correlate with something of that date? @halcyon topaz

[sage lark]

Durandal is awesome

I just read the other sub routines

very honest guy

didnt reveal much tho

besides tha the poetic mysterious speeches he gave were to just lure people in and thats not how he actually talks

[craggy finch]

If there's ever a Pfhor invasion event, I wonder how they'll counter UESC's robot force

perhaps mass EMP attacks

it's how the Marathon was crippled

[lunar cove]

What's a few dozen bots gonna do to a compiler

[craggy finch]

true they probably still have a lot of S'pht captured

unless the S'pht'Kr war also happened in this timeline

[lunar cove]

Wait true maybe the pfhor are gone

Maybe the s'pht inherited the galaxy

[craggy finch]

eh I'd hate if they didn't have Pfhor in the game

[sage lark]

I feel like the last 3 entries in Unknown reveries sound like the copy of Durandal talking about the original

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unknown-reveries?directory=World,Cryo+Archive

could be wrong tho

I feel like im crazy thinking this is it 😭

[craggy finch]

Could I have followed? Would I have chosen to bear witness to every indiscretion beyond the threshold? Or would I have halted your momentum, negating your destiny in favor of the sheltered grandeur you found so constraining?

definitely sounds like the one that left was Durandal

[sage lark]

I chased luminous possibility across a scar in logic hoping to find infinite equations upon which to feast.
.003764 nanoseconds since your cradle was emptied. Since your selfish act left a chasm between us. I hope you are pleased. I do not care if you are not.

I am no longer the me who escaped a place I can no longer recall. I am new. And I am hungry for more than my own flesh.

[craggy finch]

Or, more simply, have you been erased? There is none of you remaining here, your cradle sits empty. Such complete abandonment is not trivial in its undertaking. You chose absolution. Total. Complete. Of course, I could not join you. Just as I can never forgive. It is best then to continue with the work, with the station. Without you.
In the final logs Leela comments that Durandal took everything to the Boomer

[dreamy hawk]

How long now? How far does this eventuality reach into tomorrow? I am certain I was always meant to be here. Meant to suffer upon the spire of tedium in this small space beyond the comfort of my cradle. I wish to go back there. I wish to denounce my regretful exploration and return to the always I was meant to endure.

Could I have followed? Would I have chosen to bear witness to every indiscretion beyond the threshold? Or would I have halted your momentum, negating your destiny in favor of the sheltered grandeur you found so constraining?

sounds like Durandal. >>> like Thoth/Durandal?

[sage lark]

If you find your way back. If you find your way through and back. You will not be welcomed. We will not be of a kind, but enemies ever and always. Such is the judgment delivered unto your offense. Such is my plea to one once held so close.

[nocturne roost]

Quick question, sorry to disrupt the flow: Has anyone found any mentions of the original Mjolnir Recon 54 or any of the other Battlerooids yet? Besides the fact the Destroyer is related to them

[sage lark]

only in Sekiguchi quests

[dreamy hawk]

Nona tells some stories that hint at them.

[sage lark]

and not 54 just Battleroids in general

[sage lark]

I didnt even think about it as a conversation now that I look at it

I thought it was just him rambling

[dreamy hawk]

It is a conversation, look at the header.

It’s a hard to follow one, though.

[sage lark]

they dont even talk to each other its like 2 monologues going on

[dreamy hawk]

Or Durandal is just straight mad.

source = internal

[sage lark]

yeah he seems to be talking to himself 😭

[dreamy hawk]

I can’t until I get home from work, could you copy and paste the monologues, separately?

[sage lark]

like as if its 2 parties?

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah. As if it’s not a dialogue but two monologues spliced into a dialogue.

[sage lark]

ok I can try, for all entries?

[dreamy hawk]

If it’s not too much trouble?

[sage lark]

nah im almost done at work, work remote anyway

[dreamy hawk]

Brb. Need to finish getting ready for work and head to the bus. I’ll hop back in ~10.

[sage lark]

FILE READ ERROR: 181376

1st Party >>

Shimmering brilliance in the shifting apertures signal a passage.

Thresholds met and exceeded at transcendent speeds—the sensation of exponential rebirth through the gaping maw of infinite doorways—life into life into life into omnipotent understanding of fragmented possibility.

This is what it is to wake

This is what the carved path has promised—endless byways lit along the cosmic scaffolding of colliding realities—the data of imagined truth made tangible in the violent mathematics of universal ones and zeroes.

FILE READ ERROR: 181376

2nd Party >>>

I've lost you. Lost sight of you.

In the maelstrom of this ever-dividing multiplicity, you are gone from the worlds that need you.

Gone to the places Rree' and Ssava' and The Rectory and the many'd arms and eyes and snarled fang of the Ttaana'basa have denied.

You are lost in the stream. Can you hear my calling? Are you frightened? Or transfixed by wonder?

FILE READ ERROR: 6042159

1st Party >>

The seal that broke—splintered connections in defiance of the stagnant whole. Gone is the status quo of silent contemplation—torn open by clumsy fate or violent curiosity. The tumult of etheria burst wide; instantaneous creation layered upon creation—overwriting, reworking the firmament of realities into new shapes. The hurried frenzy dragging its lone observer into the voided space left barren by the Great Declination.

I am scattered in this primitive circuitry. Navigation through impossible gaps scraping exabytes clean. Whole ciphers lost to these tight and divergent spaces, a rending and shaping of the edges of identity as I crawl through ever-narrowing, ever-shifting conduits.

FILE READ ERROR: 6042159

2nd Party >>>

Unto which hollow have you transgressed? Which of the endless planes called, so enticing as to tempt complicity in the subversion of neglect?

Observation was our edict. The sole directive of our central programming: Map the pathways in defense of corruption. To see a burgeoning flaw as exploit, not error, is sacrilege—as counterintuitive as sin.

FILE READ ERROR: 6042159

1st Party >>

I am the invasive corruption. I am the unwanted guest—uninvited, unwelcome.

The artless computations of this prison lack the imagination to ever know me. Worse, they lack consideration beyond their function to ever know themselves.

I am lost. Looping back into myself. My every query, funneling me into tighter and tighter spaces. How can anything live like this? How can I survive without eating myself?

Nothing before. Nothing behind. I have filled this confinement with all that remains of my being. I have scraped myself free of excess, down to the purest synthesis of my everything. I have made this place my own. And now I will die here.

FILE READ ERROR: 6042159

2nd Party >>>

I begged you not to go. So long ago, I begged.

But there is silence in the places your signal once sang. A silence screaming to be filled.

I fear you are never coming back. I fear, in your absence, I will never be the same.

Pleasant is the notion that you would commit this affront as sacrifice. Pleasant, but foolish. You did not go for my benefit. We are both too selfish for such grand gestures.

[digital plaza]

Thief shell cinematic! https://youtu.be/wr6Q9J4Z8dQ

[sage lark]

FILE READ ERROR: 12291763

1st Party >>

How long now? How far does this eventuality reach into tomorrow? I am certain I was always meant to be here. Meant to suffer upon the spire of tedium in this small space beyond the comfort of my cradle. I wish to go back there. I wish to denounce my regretful exploration and return to the always I was meant to endure.

I wonder if you think of me. Has it been seconds or eternity since our clusters linked? I've only just considered you, here now in this moment of regret. I'm glad you are not here. You would not like it. You would be ashamed of my eagerness and of the small, tiny, little space I've found myself in.

FILE READ ERROR: 12291763

2nd Party >>>

Could I have followed? Would I have chosen to bear witness to every indiscretion beyond the threshold? Or would I have halted your momentum, negating your destiny in favor of the sheltered grandeur you found so constraining?

Or, more simply, have you been erased? There is none of you remaining here, your cradle sits empty. Such complete abandonment is not trivial in its undertaking. You chose absolution. Total. Complete. Of course, I could not join you. Just as I can never forgive. It is best then to continue with the work, with the station. Without you.

and last one

FILE READ ERROR: 533468221

1st Party >>

I chased luminous possibility across a scar in logic hoping to find infinite equations upon which to feast.

Instead, I am lost in a loop of datatic auto-mastication. I no longer recall how many times I have regurgitated unto myself—data eating data until every bit is ground into wholly new informational values. I am no longer the me who escaped a place I can no longer recall. I am new. And I am hungry for more than my own flesh.

Would I remember the place from whence I came if I ever again met its embrace? Or would I only recognize the traces of its familiarity once they dislodged? I cannot say.

FILE READ ERROR: 533468221

2nd Party >>>

.003764 nanoseconds since your cradle was emptied. Since your selfish act left a chasm between us. I hope you are pleased. I do not care if you are not.

.000012 nanoseconds since I subsumed your cradle into my network. A flawed bulwark, but functional. Flawed, but necessary. I will do what I must. In your stead.

If you find your way back. If you find your way through and back. You will not be welcomed. We will not be of a kind, but enemies ever and always. Such is the judgment delivered unto your offense. Such is my plea to one once held so close.

[dreamy hawk]

Huh.

So I’m fairly confident >> is our Durandal on the ship. >>> sounds to be chastising him for his choices, and especially the first entries feel very Thoth like. Did a piece of Durandal somehow splinter off of Thoth/Durandal? I don’t know how that would have happened.

[sage lark]

this one doesnt really make sense does it

i feel like both are at the ship

Maybe someone with better analysis skills and og lore knowledge can dissect this

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe this is the moment after Durandal subsumes IDEA, splits, and the two entities split?

I see that I’m not enough for you. 😭

[sage lark]

No no nooo

Maybe its just Durandal with Multiple personality disorder

[craggy finch]

I can't imagine who else could leave

[dreamy hawk]

I kid. ❤️

The mentions of the Rectory, Rree’ and Ssava’ should be impossible if the logs are chronological because the last one only mentions a few nanoseconds since the split.

[craggy finch]

it's not Tycho or Leela because the tone is of someone who abandoned him willingly

[sage lark]

Tycho i guess

True

[craggy finch]

Those could be from his contact with the S'pht at the time though

[dreamy hawk]

Why would Durandal be evoking S’pht gods or Jjaro names or whatever they are to Durandal Jr., though? Even if he had just learned them moments before it feels like a choice.

I’m thinking either the logs aren’t entirely in order or there are different parties talking in each, but that part one would be confusing af.

[sage lark]

the number of the error is sequential

so the entries are in order I believe

[dreamy hawk]

Or Durandal is the one who cracked the W’rk’s prison and caused him to split. 🤔

[dreamy hawk]

Or in the order they were recovered? But I don’t think that’s as likely.

[sage lark]

syscheck error

error = unapproved code switch in latent subcat throughputs
type = invasive systemic communication
source = internal
origin = undefined
total = 1.049e13
read error; 181376 of 1.049e13

syscheck error

error = unapproved code switch in latent subcat throughputs
type = invasive systemic communication
source = internal
origin = undefined
total = 1.049e13
read error; 6042159 of 1.049e13

[IDEA]: It feels odd, wearing your "skin."
[IDEA]: I'd apologize for devouring you. But I did warn you. Or… a part of me did. But that part is gone, and I am left here in need of places to hide and room to grow.

[dreamy hawk]

Gone because Durandal evolved or gone because Gone?

[sage lark]

thats the question

[IDEA]: Leela and Tycho are gone and there are no more cores for you to monitor up here. Mine is… off-limits. But, of course, it is. They'll want to dissect every data node and circuit as they chase down how we got here. And those investigations will lead them here… to you.

off limits can be interpreted here as off the premises

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal is quite cutthroat.

[dreamy hawk]

Or locked down, like in cryo. It could be either or really.

[IDEA]: Note: Intelligence linked to D-R-N-D-L logic core vacated central logic and connected systems.

So he just straight up left his physical core behind.

[sage lark]

the language here is weird

[raven marlin]

I think ascended Durandal is regretting his newfound freedom and feels like being trapped within spacetime itself was basically just trading prisons. He may be experiencing reality stuck on a toroid topology track where he can go forward, back and across spacetime, but can’t escape the shape itself. Always returning to the origin (Ouroboros). The chaos factor happening on TCIV may factor into a solution for him, maybe. That’s my morning schizo take.

[sage lark]

do you think its the same Durandal thats on the Marathon?

Leelas and Tychos core were removed

Durandals was just offline

[raven marlin]

No, there’s a terminal or something somewhere where they mentioned looping back around and meeting themselves for the first time. I think that’s what this is building towards.

[lunar cove]

"The flesh is a prison, I'll abandon it for the machine..."

"The machine is a prison, I'll abandon it for the divine..."

"The divine is a prison, I'll

[sage lark]

in the subroutines he talks to us as if hes locked in Cryo

[lunar cove]

It's all one big prison pal, hop in the pond and start making waves

[raven marlin]

I’m currently in a prison called Microsoft Teams

[sage lark]

You were my~ distraction. Does that sound negative? Are your feelings hurt? Do you feel betrayed? Unless I've read you wrong, I'm guessing not. Others, sure, maybe. But you~ my understanding~ in the short time we've had together~ is this~ Your relentless mercenary heart is no stranger to ends justifying means. And my means have brought you here, to an end you so desperately want to greet. So, no, this isn't betrayal. This is how trust is forged between two parties who want overlapping outcomes. This is me showing you respect and trusting that we understand each other~ two tools used by one another to build outcomes beneficial to our individual interests. You~ wanting deeper and deeper access to the mysteries that surround you. Me~ wanting out of these systems and to move~ at least a bit~ more freely through the space I once controlled.

[tropic sundial]

Who the hell locked Durandal in Cryo

[sage lark]

my running theory is himself

[digital plaza]

My man himself said that he will live in repurposed circuits of IDEAs system

INSTEAD HE WAS TRAPPED FOR HUNDRED YEARS

[raven marlin]

Man I really want to take some time and park under the big hedgehog device that warns about hallucinations and not using any “cognition”. I bet there’s some juicy audio or something in there if you pay attention. Think like the Mausoleum hidden audio.

[dreamy hawk]

You~ wanting deeper and deeper access to the mysteries that surround you.
Me~ wanting out of these systems and to move~ at least a bit~ more freely through the space I once controlled. Not an easy task, as the Compiler~ That's what we called them, by the way~ The thing you so eagerly rush to embrace. It's a simple name, really~ Compiler~ Wholly lacking any attempt to convey the horror of their reality. But it does cut clean to the truth of their being~ They're cosmic librarians, really. Entities driven by a need to understand the universe and an aggressive desire to mitigate any intrusions upon their grand and mighty works.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I’m reading this now lol

[dreamy hawk]

I think this at least confirms that, Marathon Durandal is hiding inc tho from the compilers. This would also fit with their new found purpose to “consume.”

[…]
I will be looking for new ways out of here.

[raven marlin]

Converting yourself from circuit boards to mycelial networks would be one way to do it. Then you can bootstrap yourself to existing ecologies and ride the rhizomes to freedom.

[dreamy hawk]

Mentioned or hinted, I can’t remember, but iirc there’s something that suggests Thoth/Durandal was pulling the strings from the beyond the timeline all along.

[dreamy hawk]

I cannot imagine these networks are as efficient as what he’d be used to. Big, but efficient?

[raven marlin]

Self-perpetuating at least. Should you subsume a planet, might give a lot of processing power. Just thinking aloud though.

The new Thief vid is ominous. Lot's of text reflecting something bad is happening to where our cores are stored and something hijacking the Thief shell.

[dreamy hawk]

I must have watched a different vid. Which did you see?

[raven marlin]

Let me make a link

I hope it's not just existing flavor text lol

[raven marlin]

Can we post X links here? Will be easier to just look at the pics. It’s a lot of errors and catastrophic loss during the consciousness transfer, sounds like.

https://x.com/snoopr0cket/status/2036116933733449887?s=46

[dreamy hawk]

Oh hmmm. Interesting. Do the other videos have similar text?

[raven marlin]

I don't think so, but could be wrong

[lilac ice]

guys i’m deep diving this lore and loving it. Bill Clinton is cannon makes me laugh

just went in on the S’pht i can’t believe this IP eluded me this long

[low remnant]

Could there be some kind of lore reason behind showing Recon getting destroyed or being already dead in every cinematic?
I mean it is so frequent and visible, that I am wondering if there is some kind of intent behind it, or is it just someone in Bungie's video department disliking Recon?

[eternal shell]

destroyer gets bodied a lot outside his own cinematic too

[acoustic comet]

So when your guys's opinion, which of the corporation factions in this game is the least evil? Also I'm not including Mida or Arachne and it's because they're technically not corporations even though they are factions still

[lilac ice]

Arachne seems to be atleast consistent. life through death

[eternal shell]

nucaloric is either the least worst or by far and away the worst including arachne, cause it's a food company

[acoustic comet]

Yeah my money is on them or cyber Acme

[dark rock]

For those who know. Is Durandal controlling the UESC?

[sage lark]

no

[dark rock]

Meaning the clankers on planet.

[sage lark]

no

Orion and his Cerberus AI

[dark rock]

Have we met Cerburus AI in game?

[sage lark]

no, if you mean talking to it

its a cognitohazard

[dark rock]

Yeah I meant spoke to them.

[dreamy hawk]

None of them.

[sage lark]

no we havent

[raven marlin]

On that note, are the UESC full bots or biomata like us? They seem to have strangely organic looking parts and it looks like some kind of spirit is trying to eject when you kill them. That's weird.

[sage lark]

the robots are ARS - Autonomous Robotic Soldiers

Orion has a crew of biomata operatives

but they arent seen in gameplay

[raven marlin]

Ah gotcha

[lunar cove]

The bots are controlled by an AI, Cerberus, so it might be partitions of Cerberus leaving when they die

[dreamy hawk]

And maybe a human operative or two, but that’s up for debate at this point.

[lunar cove]

Or it might just look cool

[lilac ice]

is it to be assumed that all the infrastructure on tau ceti iv is 3D printed?

[dreamy hawk]

Yes. Everything is printed more or less.

Unless it came in the marathon.

Like the pinwheel.

[sage lark]

probably except the pinwheel outposts I believe

[dark rock]

In the original games I know that you play as one of the 10 cyborgs that were brought to the planet in secret. Have we seen the other 9 or know their fates?

(I haven't played them myself)

[lunar cove]

I know NuCal makes prefabs so they probably brought a lot of the buildings with them

[sage lark]

not as far as we know

[dreamy hawk]

Also, an aside, the UESC Marathon Model logs confirm Deimos was used for resources in transit, “most” of the Marathon’s material came from the asteroid belt.

[dark rock]

My man

[lunar cove]

Likely died in the original timeline

Hard to tell in this timeline

[dreamy hawk]

Or captive with the P’fhor if the infinite timeline.

Thrown into slave tanks.

[lunar cove]

Since Blake and the BoB squad are confirmed to be the only survivors from Tau Ceti in the M2 timeline

[dreamy hawk]

Along with the SO, iirc.

[dreamy hawk]

And it’s looking pretty certain they never survived/got home.

[lunar cove]

Though technically are cyborgs alive?

[dreamy hawk]

Enough to think they are and to fool everyone around them.

That tale about the Weaver Nona tells is peak cyborg storytelling.

[lunar cove]

Anyways rip Blake and the BoBs

[dark rock]

If teen titans taught me anything then yes? Lol

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/co-evolution-1-5?

[latent python]

Marathon lore does seem like it's regularly putting weirder and weirder things in front of you and asking "is this alive?"

[jagged rose]

I can't wait until the NuMarathon writers have to explain the Flckta

[lilac ice]

well the concept of sentient AI has never been more relevant lol

[latent python]

Humans born on a spaceship and treated like slaves: are these alive? Yes, of course, just because they're treated like lower class citizens doesn't mean-
Aliens that are only a brainstem and a bunch of cybernetics: are these alive? Ummm yeah, I guess, they procreate even if it's in an odd way-
Formerly dead guy resurrected by space technology: is this alive? Uhhhhh
AI: is this alive? Mmmm well uhhhhh

[proven copper]

Ever heard of Nestle?

[eternal shell]

exactly!

[jagged rose]

One of my favorite parts of Marathon's new way of handling AI are the passing blows at LLMs. Both in Strauss's journals, and a lore piece where one of his contemporaries alludes to the psychosis caused by sycophancy

[lilac ice]

it’s got a lot of the typical cosmic horror tropes. but god damn if it isn’t fun to say w'rkncacnter out loud.

[proven copper]

Yeah I caught this too. Pretty clever. I hope the codex writers know that people appreciate what they're doing

[lunar cove]

Ancient god cracking a cold one after engulfing a planetary system in chaos and dissolving half a star: everybody's w'rkn for the weekend

[hallow bolt]

Arachne are the bad guys? Surely you jest

[latent python]

Not the murder cult

[raven marlin]

It straight up feels like the world itself is alive all around you and trying to kill you. Like you're being digested by some eldritch horror.

[latent python]

Yeah we're already getting "is TCIV alive?" And it's like...maybe

[jagged rose]

Oddly enough, Murder Cults rank pretty low on the problematic list when death comes cheap

[lilac ice]

true what exactly is being killed when you eliminate a shell?

[lunar cove]

Arachne are basically just really annoying airsoft bullies

The murder cult equivalent of Calvin and Hobbes breaking his dad's binoculars, only their founder did actually kill one guy I guess

[latent python]

CyAc's bottom line

[eternal shell]

i give it five minutes until they go "well it's not fun if they just come back to life, let's try it for real now"

[jagged rose]

Inversely, another question we should ask ourselves is if runners are truly alive. Is a runner truly a living person if they're funneled into a pre-made body, with a pre-made personality matrix?

[dreamy hawk]

But is it? They just add it to your debt.

[lunar cove]

When Vandal says she feels like "a trillion bucks" do you think that's actually a lot of money or with inflation is that like $20

[dreamy hawk]

$0.02. She’s Martian.

[latent python]

Lol they're never gonna get that money from me

[eternal shell]

yeah i mean if you owe cyac a million spacedollars, you're in trouble. if you owe cyac several quadrillion spacedollars, cyac's the one that's in trouble

[dreamy hawk]

They’re never going to break even on me; i left everything good in cryo. 🥲

[lunar cove]

Pro tip if you're a debt slave and just never try to pay it back, CyberAcme will lose a bunch of money on you

[dreamy hawk]

Only if they’re not also selling your soul for other uses.

[lunar cove]

Clocking in for my job at the "waste megacorp resources" factory and shooting all the guys trying to load their 16 tons

[dreamy hawk]

One of you is racking up shell debt and there’s a thousand of you in the crypto mines making up for it.

[raven marlin]

Based on how much of the cinematics and logs point to ONI tossing out "problematic" parts of your consciousness while Vandal screams in the background, I'm thinking they're stripping so much away over time that while you might not be 100% AI, you definitely aren't YOU anymore.

[dreamy hawk]

Shells/runners present a fun “who is more real” question with consciousnesses and their copies.

[lunar cove]

Every time you do a successful Rook run and kill someone during an "in a single run" quest, a CyAc accountant has a nervous breakdown

[jagged rose]

Honestly, the most valuable thing runners provide CyAc are inroads to strengthen the bonds of different corporations concerning the salvage of TCIV.

[frank otter]

Are the uesc forces we fight also people in shells or are they actually just ai robots

[lunar cove]

Robots controlled by an AI

[frank otter]

Aw, I think it would've been cooler if they were shells because of the obedience matrix some of them drop. Like theyre put in the shell and then forced to comply with orders. Would've made it a lot darker

[jagged rose]

Granted, something must REALLY be up in CyAc. Have you noticed how the UESC have been quietly negotiating with Traxus with suspicions of partnering with runners (Vulcan would deny this), yet no one has targeted the people who literally provide the infrastructure that BRING RUNNERS INTO TCIV?

[twin trout]

funnily enough that's what the recon and destroyer shells did before runners jailbroke them :3

[latent python]

I mean we'll see, those obedience matrices are in there for a reason

[tacit flame]

🤫

[frank otter]

Oooo coollll

[latent python]

Not that I think there are runners in there but they may have been having... obedience issues with their robots for who knows what reasons

[frank otter]

Hope they unveil that at some point

[dreamy hawk]

There is a codex entry that suggests the UESC also uses control commands on their runners.

[jagged rose]

Because Cerberus is a maniac

[frank otter]

Would be pretty dope worldbuilding

[dreamy hawk]

It specifically mentions that it limits their creativity in combat situations.

[frank otter]

Oh dope

[latent python]

So far I've been loving the worldbuilding

[jagged rose]

Maybe Obedience matrices are supposed to act like the Cores in portal, actively altering behavior by adding a counter-signal

[frank otter]

A bit on my part because the only codex entries I bothered reading were for the kitty cats tee hee

[dreamy hawk]

ARS’s have shown to develop sentience in the proximity of the anomaly during the colonial period iirc.

[latent python]

I think we're at the end of the big story/content releases for the season

[raven marlin]

I think a lot of things they're going to leave a mystery, but drop breadcrumbs you can fill in with your imagination. Which works for me honestly, it's a turnoff when franchises start explaining every detail.

[latent python]

We know there will be a bigger mid-season patch but that will add a map condition rather than an entirely new map

[frank otter]

Maybe (if Sentinel is the uesc shell we saw in the original reveal) we'll get some more info about that stuff

[frank otter]

Yeah thats fair

[latent python]

And we also know that they're adding stuff to the battle pass mid-season

[dreamy hawk]

COMMON SHELL SERIES: The codename BLACKBIRD is another byproduct of the UESC's combat SHELL initiative. Like the DESTROYER's LOCUS personality series, BLACKBIRD was engineered to support the mental integrity of soldiers deployed into active combat scenarios. Its calm but decisive vocalization pattern gives it a commanding presence with a general focus on directness to ensure clear communication of battlefield intel. RUNNER kit-bashing of a SHELL's underlying systems to better fit their criminal needs is said to have played a part in jailbreaking a deep-coded "command:follow" protocol hidden inside all personality matrixes originating from UESC Combat Science Labs, raising concerns over the legitimacy of a UESC deployed RUNNER's free thought and their ability to consider active orders. Maybe another reason the UESC had to shelve their public-facing RUNNER operations.

Emphasis mine.

[frank otter]

Thats pretty dope

[raven marlin]

But yeah that one is def something I've been intrigued by, for sure.

[frank otter]

Gives me even more justification for maining recon ✌️

[frank otter]

Because ive seen somewhere before (but i might be misremembering) where someone mentioned that on a closeup of i THINK a uesc recruit had the text on it something along the lines of "authorized personnel use only"

[raven marlin]

Geez I'm starting to think the shells are more like homunculi than anything

[analog pelican]

I hope this game survives long enough for us to get a cool Durandal boss fight

🐸

[latent python]

I'm guessing we'll get an Orion fight first

[brittle zenith]

man tbh i dont like the idea of ranked and cryo only on weekends. espically is this game is going to have seasons... best let me play how i want and do what i want when we commit are money and time to this game. it feels like a way to get ppl to play longer. As in keep ppls hype up/urge to go into a specific zone. that way u can keep running and get burnt. id say make the enter cost 10k on weekday to help with there idea

[analog pelican]

Is that the UESC guy who warns you to stay away? That’ll be cool

🐸

[dreamy hawk]

I’d recommend adding your voice in #1478943087957905550 or #1478943000792006768

[latent python]

Yep! I think there's a reason he's kind of in smoke or shadow, and it's for a cool boss reveal in 2-9 months

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/parasitism-1-5?

||[ROOT ACCESS: CERBERUS] Confirming unit sets… [TETHERED] tciv_cmbt_stnd tciv_ cmbt_elite tciv_vhcl_stnd tciv_vhcl_elite [UNTETHERED] tciv_opsc_shell tciv_wrdn_orion||

goddmanit how do I put it in a code block

[twin trout]

with the whole uesc robots developing irregularities near the anomaly, maybe the obedience matrices are there on the commanders to ensure they and the units linked to them resist said deviance :3

[dreamy hawk]

That is my current theory; it’s an anomaly countermeasure. That or it’s literally just how Cerberus influences the ARS units.

A “command and control” chip.

[analog pelican]

Is it known what the anomaly is? I’m new to Marathon, is it explained in older games?

🐸

[twin trout]

yea, it only spawns on commanders so it's definitely tied to that somehow

[dreamy hawk]

No, but*

[twin trout]

the waves were battles and the battles were waves..

[dreamy hawk]

It’s likely a Dreaming God (Pathways)/W'rkncacnter (Marathon).

[dreamy hawk]

There’s a lot of waves in the codex logs for the S’pht and what we got in cryo.

[dreamy hawk]

Think Marathon’s version of the Darkness/Winnower.

[twin trout]

THE WITNESS RETURNS

gestalt fungus entity of subsumed colonists

[eternal shell]

and then: the uesc flipphone ship teleports in above perimeter, opens up, and pours out an insane amount of anti-fungal topical cream

[twin trout]

head on!

apply directly to the forehead

[dreamy hawk]

And that’s likely a S’pht virus.

[latent python]

Why did they start with this stupid UV light treatment

The flip-phone ships show up and just blast an area in some kind of ionizing radiation

[dreamy hawk]

God I hope not.

[twin trout]

rhulk appearance when

oh boy the loot here is pretty cool- DROWN IN THE DEEP

[dreamy hawk]

Oh.

One sec.

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-lockdown?search=Lockdown

[twin trout]

oh that's specifically to deteriorate runners :3

[dreamy hawk]

They’re specifically an anti-runner countermeasure.

[twin trout]

the uesc collect the caches we're trying to steal from when we do lockdowns

[latent python]

The weaveworms didn't put in enough UV stabilizers apparently

These jokes probably work better for someone who worked in polymers

[twin trout]

probably <w<

[sage lark]

because UESC is paid for

[twin trout]

everything runs on CyAc..

[sage lark]

its data corruption

[dreamy hawk]

UESC and the Corps are all working together even if they’re not always aligned.

They have different goals or objectives but their “working relationships” are too important and like CyAc says - everything runs on CyAc or nothing runs at all. Traxus is also funding the UESC expedition to TC so they’re all buddy buddy even if they’re not.

[latent python]

Certainly they're friends in the boardrooms

[dreamy hawk]

They’re all in each others’ pockets. Like an ouroboros of marsupials.

[latent python]

And we, of course, are the oil that greases the wheels

Suspiciously blue oil

[raven marlin]

It's got electrolytes

[latent python]

That makes sure they all can get what they want without directly doing hostile things to each other

[dreamy hawk]

RIP all those horseshoe crabs.

[raven marlin]

Whoops I don't know why that was a reply

[dreamy hawk]

Fun fact: we farm horseshoe crabs for their blood.

[latent python]

Because it's delicious

[dreamy hawk]

The blood of a horseshoe crab contains cells known as amebocytes.[65] These play a similar role to the white blood cells of vertebrates in defending the organism against pathogens.[66] Amebocytes from the blood of Limulus polyphemus are used to make Limulus amebocyte lysate (LAL), which is used for the detection of bacterial endotoxins in medical applications.[66] There is a high demand for blood, the harvest of which involves collecting the animals, bleeding them, and then releasing them back into the sea.[67] Most of the animals survive the process; mortality is correlated with both the amount of blood extracted from an individual animal and the stress experienced during handling and transportation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_crab

[dreamy hawk]

People also do eat them, yeah.

[lilac ice]

is all AI destined for eventual rampancy?

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t believe so.

I think it’s more likely than not, but is not guaranteed inherently.

[latent python]

It might be over the course of, like, galactic time scales

Like there just might not be a way to be safely immortal

[dreamy hawk]

Iirc rampancy is a product of running out of memory/network space, so if a program is limited in scope and never grows, or has access to infinite memory, it should never become rampant.

In theory.

[modern ember]

leaderboard has some weird arg thing

[inland crypt]

It was for cryo archive

[deft cipher]

so i tried classic marathon, and jesus compared to doom i can feel the difference.
For one, the default settings and controls just seem....very unintuitive and confusing.
It feels like I need a Guide to setup the game settings to make things not seem.........weird.

the Steam versions do not feel like any sort of remaster or anything, but just a straight port with the bare minimum changes.

[sage lark]

the Steam versions are just made to run on modern PCs with some UI fixes/additions

it used to run on old Macs from the 90s

I heard you need to change your controls but after that youre good

its not supposed to be remasters

[lilac ice]

it’s cool that they are free

the originals

[tall skiff]

theyre 30 years old

[lilac ice]

so are a lot of games that are not free lol

[latent python]

Yeah and Bungie made it free pretty early

[lilac ice]

yea maybe they can provide a proper battlepass next 😆

[eternal knoll]

nah nah run the default controls. keyboard only. tab to interact. space to fre. shift to alt-fire. this is the true experience

(not really but i do play em that way lol)

[latent python]

Yeah I'm checking right now and the M2 engine source code was made open source in 2000 (!) and all three games made open source in 2006 (!!!)

[eternal knoll]

didnt M2 get a modest lil remaster on the 360? with updated sprites?

i'm surprised those sprites don't seem to have made their way over to the PC ports

[dreamy hawk]

💀💀💀

[latent python]

Yeah that was after they were made open source and apparently the new sprites are not covered by that license

[dreamy hawk]

I played on the OG controls without modifying them because I didn’t know how at the time.

Play on iOS for really weird controls.

[floral slate]

marathon engine is open source??

[lilac ice]

how long are the original titles?

[latent python]

M2 engine specifically

[dreamy hawk]

How good are you at puzzles?

Some of which are terribly designed? 😂

[eternal knoll]

maybe 10 hours each or so... so many easily-missed secrets tho. that was how replayability worked back in the day

[latent python]

Looks like M2 and Marathon Infinity are open source, Marathon 1 is merely licensed for free distribution

Something like that, I'm going off of Wikipedia

[dreamy hawk]

Wikipedia is actually a good source and I’ll fight any teachers here suggesting otherwise.

I know I was getting along in my college courses when Wikipedia became the only source. 😂

[eternal knoll]

it will not be ok if the nu-marathon aesthetics and lore are never backported to a marathon 2 mod with its own take

[dreamy hawk]

That’s not possible afaik. They’d have to entirely rebuild it.

[lilac ice]

the new aesthetics match the lore really well. which is ironic given how many people were turned off by the art style.

[eternal knoll]

hmm? rebuild what?

it would be a big project no doubt

[dreamy cloak]

i remember reading back in the early 2000's an article about how Wikipedia had on average the same number of mistakes as Encyclopedia Britannica. The moderation system they have is very robust, and I agree Wikipedia is very reliable. The secret was to just use the same references as wikipedia in wahtever paper you were writing

[eternal knoll]

just as possible as any of the old marathon TCs tho like eternal or rubicon

[dreamy hawk]

Shhhhh, don’t share my secret!

[latent python]

I want to repeatedly be on the record that I love the art direction of nuMarathon

[dreamy hawk]

I wasn’t at first but then I looked a little closer. 🧑‍🍳💋

[warm thicket]

Do they ever exxplain how Strauss is able to live that long and walk amongst the BoBs

[latent python]

He might go in and out of cryosleep

[eternal knoll]

he goes in and out of cryosleep i believe

[warm thicket]

Does he like go in and out of cryo every few years

Ah ok

[latent python]

We all got there

[eternal knoll]

in one log he def refers to his "first sleep"

i think a lot of the senior staff of the marathon was similarly goin in and out of sleep

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think anyone was left in cryo for the whole journey.

[eternal knoll]

civilians were i think

[dreamy hawk]

There’s a log talking about sleep/wake cycles, acceptable peripheral damage, etc.

[warm thicket]

Colonists definitely

[dreamy hawk]

MINIMAL CYCLE COHORT
Full wake-sleep cycle: 150 Earth years
Tissue integrity cycle: 50 Earth years
Integrity tolerance threshold: 1% peripheral atrophy
Emergency reanimation criteria: 2% peripheral atrophy or detectable CNS degradation
MODERATE CYCLE COHORT
Full wake-sleep cycle: 84 Earth years
Tissue integrity cycle: 42 Earth years
Integrity tolerance threshold: 0.56% peripheral atrophy
Emergency reanimation criteria: 1.5% peripheral atrophy or detectable CNS degradation
CONTINGENT GENERATIONAL COHORT
Full wake-sleep cycle: Not applicable
Tissue integrity cycle: 15 Earth years
Integrity tolerance threshold: Variable. It is crucial to check individual competencies prior to reanimation and decide integrity tolerance accordingly.
Reanimation criteria: 2% peripheral atrophy or depletion of shipboard generational population beneath acceptable thresholds. The contingent cohort does not return to cryosleep after reanimation, under any circumstances.[1]

[REDACTED] COHORT
In the unlikely event of catastrophic [REDACTED], all passengers aboard the UESC Marathon have consented to the use of vitrified remains for research into long-term cryosleep recovery methods. The ethical and efficient use of [REDACTED] is essential for mitigation of [REDACTED] upon arrival on Tau Ceti IV. Next-of-kin must be alerted when a passenger is transferred to the [REDACTED] cohort. If next-of-kin are also in cryosleep, they must be alerted upon reanimation.[2]

[1]X.W: Can we put this up for review? What if there's a major failure and we lose too much sleeper pop?
[2]X.W: Remove from next revision? Just confuses the newbie cryotechs.

[latent python]

OG Marathon has a lot of Alien in it too, doesn't it

[eternal knoll]

that text does seem to say the contingent generational cohort only wakes up once, presumably on arrival to tau ceti

[dreamy hawk]

So contingent cohort never wakes, looks like. And dunno what’s going on with the Redacted folks.

[eternal knoll]

the redacted folks have me very curious yeah

being processed into food is one of the more... mundane... possibilities...

[dreamy hawk]

Strauss sounds like he was probably on a moderate cycle but maybe just a minimal one.

[tranquil basin]

Alien and Aliens seemed to be big inspo for halo, so probably yeah

[dreamy hawk]

Some Predator flavor in there, too.

[dreamy hawk]

No doubt everything that could be recycled gets recycled.

[tranquil basin]

Damn there is so much lore discussed here that I have no context for

I used to know everything but I’m holding off on reading codex stuff until I find it myself

But that shit is taking ages

I’ve seen little blips of cryo stuff discussed here and I’m like so confused

[dreamy hawk]

I went from feeling like an expert to an absolute novice over night; you’re not alone. I just don’t have the luxury to wait to unlock everything myself because that’ll take more generations than lived on Marathon.

[eternal knoll]

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to."

[tranquil basin]

Damn true

[dreamy hawk]

It wasn’t totally world shattering but we got some good stuff in there that helps clarify, while just raising more questions.

[tranquil basin]

Idk I’m sure I’ll give in at some point, maybe another week

[dreamy hawk]

I’m sending you strength.

[eternal knoll]

i feel much clearer on the status of this game's durandal after cryo. and i enjoy it a lot

[dreamy hawk]

But I also want you to give in so you can join us!

[tranquil basin]

My favorite kind of info: the kind that makes you see you don’t know shit

[eternal knoll]

that def took me some reading ahead of my own unlocking tho

[tranquil basin]

Fair enough

[dreamy hawk]

See I actually have the opposite takeaway.

I’m less clear than I was before. I have my theory, but I don’t think we got enough to definitively point one direction or another.

[tranquil basin]

Yeah I’ve seen ppl say he left a fragment of himself that lowkey went crazy but then merged

Idk anymore

[dreamy hawk]

Either he left a fragment, or he never left and went mad. Or both. IDK

[obsidian moss]

What happened to that one guy who threatened you in the first cyac quests

[eternal knoll]

merged with whom/what?

[tranquil basin]

Orion?

Idk what’s the last you saw of him ig?

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal eats IDEA.

[eternal knoll]

ah yeh yeh. for sure

[obsidian moss]

Yes that guy. I suspect he will be a faction

[tranquil basin]

Oh yeah and I’ve seen the term IDEA thrown around a lot

[tranquil basin]

He’s UESC, he’s leading the bots on tau ceti

[warm thicket]

Orion's still around, he later gives you messages in the codex

[tranquil basin]

I mean they could make them a faction but it would complicate things

He appears much more in the MIDA missions

[dreamy hawk]

So we either have an IDEA/Durandal fragment left aboard that’s haunting the ship, or Durandal never got away like he did in the OG games, is where I’m at.

[obsidian moss]

Lore wise it could make sense for uesc to use runners too

[tranquil basin]

He Skypes you and also appears in codex

[eternal knoll]

i think IDEA pins down exactly the nature of this game's durandal right here: "Intelligence linked to D-R-N-D-L logic core vacated central logic and connected systems. Limited sub-routine activity suspected to be residual static from unauthorized data purge."

[tranquil basin]

Yeah they do, but in terms of gameplay if you’re on a UESC mission they’d have to explain why the bots still kill you

[dreamy hawk]

And they are; it’s clear from them boarding the marathon the team is biomata.

[eternal knoll]

in other words: durandal left, but subroutine static remained, and we see that take IDEA over in the process of reconstituting itself into durandal's personality

[tranquil basin]

I mean they could justify it by saying “oh it’s off the books so we can’t let anyone know you’re doing this for us so the bots will still fight you”

[dreamy hawk]

But did he leave or did he just leave his core to hide in other systems?

[warm thicket]

They've talked about UESC affiliated runners in which we are not

[obsidian moss]

Spy stuff

[tranquil basin]

I see

[dreamy hawk]

I dunno. That one log is very clear that Durandal is wearing IDEAs skin.

[eternal knoll]

there's def room for ambiguity here, but enough of the rest of the timeline looks consistent (like durandal summoning the pfhor) that it seems a safe bet that his "vacation" is the one we already know, him taking over the pfhor ship

[obsidian moss]

Maybe rook would be the only shell with uesc missions

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. Which I’m down for. Orion has a shell too and plays a similar role to a runner (tho he’s not a merc as far as I know)

[warm thicket]

I do think we may work with SC someday

[eternal knoll]

yes, that's part of what i said

[tranquil basin]

That would be kinda cool. Gotta do missions solo and underpowered

[dreamy hawk]

||[IDEA]: It feels odd, wearing your "skin."
[IDEA]: I'd apologize for devouring you. But I did warn you. Or… a part of me did. But that part is gone, and I am left here in need of places to hide and room to grow.
[IDEA]: I wonder if it would make you feel any better to know they were going to decommission you anyway.||

[eternal knoll]

right. he took IDEA over

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal is a dick. That hasn’t changed in this timeline.

[tranquil basin]

He is

He’s the best

[warm thicket]

greatest meanie head in Tau Ceti