📚marathon-lore-discussion

[sage lark]

or atleast the Spht one

[dreamy hawk]

Let me reread it.

[sage lark]

I think Pfhorrest had an analysis of it

in the last page they talk about being freed

[dreamy hawk]

tide; of the seas and shallows; of the manifest revolution; the s'pht'kr; k'liah'narhl; the butchers of the
vile ones; the s'pht'hra; the hungry ghosts of razed lh'owon; the burning blood of pthia; the eleven clans of a paradise set ablaze; we, who were as one; of muck and the dark and the shifting ground; we who were made many; at odds; at throats; we, the s'pht; freed, of tide and las[^x%] 5^ :: @/ = + 7 ~>[] [^x%] 5^ :: oae[9 f3s1>o@~ O~jo[c]v 2a^ []~^ / _ [$ x#..i %4n..? ~~;>eE~ ~E h; freed, to consider and know and understand; freed, to hunger and feed; now with tongue and tooth; will and intent; we scrape knowledge as nourishment;

Sounds like it.

[umbral trout]

Hey now that cryo is out, did we ever get confirmation as to what the close up shots of the metal cyborg face being constructed with green silkworms was? Was that supposed to be the Compiler?

[sage lark]

where are those shots?

[kindred orbit]

Could it be that maybe we are in the time frame where he's going back to the Marathon so he can take it back to earth? Or is it possible that Durandal went to an adjacent timeline where the colony was just killed, not nuked into nothingness?

[umbral trout]

in the video right before release with Poppy singing

[sage lark]

thats just Triage shell being reprinted after dying

Compilers dont get printed afaik

[umbral trout]

the heck, why does he look so different

i thought they were more hollow

[terse wren]

Wat this

[sage lark]

https://youtu.be/vtw5BDpKgJM?si=CnAe_H3xjjpW9r3f&t=77

[dreamy hawk]

I see evidence for the S’pht rebellion, I see Durandal talking about the OG events while locked in cryo, but I don’t see evidence that the rebellion played out in the same way or that Durandal left the marathon and/or was involved so far. @visual lynx 👀?

[sage lark]

you mean this?

[umbral trout]

yeah

[sage lark]

thats just triage even has the same eyes

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/compiler-trace?search=Compiler

The last one.

[umbral trout]

maybe im just used to how it was depicted in the cinematic video where they look softer and dont have a hard metal skeleton inside

[terse wren]

Damn so they hired at least one person who can write

I could have taken this easily as og term text

[sage lark]

wtf does that mean

lmao

[dreamy hawk]

They are biosynthetic so for all the squishy bits there are also layers of cable and metal.

[sage lark]

as if all the other items arent well written

[deft kestrel]

it's weird, Durandal doesn't speak how he used to, assuming this is the OG timeline and not some other timeline, it's pretty clear that the events of marathon 1 and 2 did happen but....the compiler we faced onboard the marathon seemed to be hostile.

[sage lark]

marathon.....infinity

[deft kestrel]

i'm assuming he is the merged AI now.

the god level AI he fused with

for those who don't know

[amber ferry]

maybe it didn't get the message or viewed shells as non-human

[dreamy hawk]

I would caution against taking his speech as evidence for much one way or another; it could be creative liberty as much as anything.

[kindred orbit]

His Prose is very Hybrid like to my ears

[deft kestrel]

less cocky more sure

[dreamy hawk]

It gives Thoth/Durandal but until I see evidence he left the Marathon it could also just be NuDurandal.

Different writers, there’s voiced lines now, etc. things might just be a little different.

[sage lark]

well he did have 100 years between the games

[kindred orbit]

He still so arrogant, so I can see it being either or.

[deft kestrel]

wasn't there also mention of a certain group of soldiers by one of the AIs? a group of patchwork warriors too?

[dreamy hawk]

Or 100 years of isolation.

[burnt nebula]

i be getting out of Cryo with a tonne of lore every time i extract

[sage lark]

yeah im leaving my mind open

[dreamy hawk]

No. Dig in, damnit!

[burnt nebula]

the Cryo lore is easier to get than the other maps. lucky to find one piece of lore for the other maps once in every 3 raids

[dreamy hawk]

I’ll need more; elaborate?

[queen kraken]

our purpose found through suffering and survival; our purpose found in the chaos and annihilation; of matter; of self; and the somnambulant hearts of infernal stars; and the universe; and the cage; we, the s'pht; consume; consume; consume; consume;

could this segment from the final compiler trace suggest the W'rkncacnter is up to some nonsense?

[dreamy hawk]

Easy to find. Leaving with is another matter.

[burnt nebula]

its not so bad tbh. ive been running random teams and so far my exfil rate is about 50%

saying that ive done 4 raids lol

[deft kestrel]

i can't really recall much about what she said, but i know the worm AI from the one who made our shells talked about patchwork warriors who weren't really alive, but made up of things that shouldn't be. and were not men. but weapons, which reminds me of the OG marathon protag which in this case was a dead human grafted with alien tech and human tech to make a demi god cyborg

[dreamy hawk]

Colonial Folklore calls the Compilers Reg Angels in reference to a W’rk, by the sounds of it. But the other Trace also talks about them fighting against a W’rk, so I’m not super sure if they’d go dark side like that. I sooner think that they’re kinda just fed up doing things for others and have found their own purpose.

[dreamy hawk]

I’m 0/6 so happy for you. 😩😂

[deft kestrel]

i could be wrong i need to check on the lore again

[dreamy hawk]

Do you know how hard it is for me to get 6 5K kits to lose? 😩

[burnt nebula]

damn thats tough going... are you taking good gear with you? ive been going in with a 7k kit

plenty of grenades

[deft kestrel]

million credits tend to help/j

[burnt nebula]

grenades are so important to stop teams inside smoke and self revivers

[dreamy hawk]

That does sound battleroidy but I’d need to hear it/read it.

[deft kestrel]

give me a second- wait do links from youtube work here?

[queen kraken]

The folklore codex gives me some lovecraftian/eldritch vibes as the first sermon log definitely reads as though they're being subtly influenced like the cultists from that canon rather than knowing for certain. since the pfhor were in a star system with a w'rk for pretty much their whole existence, it may have influenced them malignly

[slate anchor]

Anyone got a screenshot or link the the lore entry for finishing cryo?

[dreamy hawk]

They’re getting increasingly sadder and more desperate as I go. Usually just terrible luck in Control.

[amber ferry]

What codex entry goes over that?

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/
has most of them; not sure what the specific one you’re looking for is called or id check.

[burnt nebula]

i just run triage, make sure my team mates are constantly energy amped and signal jammed when we're about to PvP and they do most of the heavy lifting lol

[slate anchor]

Idk which ones have lore tied to them, but im assuming there are some pretty heavy lore drops in those tabs. Thank you!

[burnt nebula]

also grenades. cant stress enough how important grenades are. you gotta stop the other teams from rezzing

[unreal geode]

Does this suggest there are 12 clans of spht?

[deft kestrel]

https://youtu.be/ANeIbVEyHK8?si=71D9jvMrpHC4ZodZ FOUND IT

[dreamy hawk]

Should only be 11.

[deft kestrel]

only 11

10 we might've met

and the 11...

that's beyond alien

[deft kestrel]

this is very battleroid sounding

which makes sense, the shells are based off of the battleroids.

[fossil willow]

i was thinking this last night but has anyone seen or heard bingus since they added cryo cuz i haven't been able to find bingus

[deft kestrel]

Why would the cat be onboard a ship with a S'pth who could easily destroy it

that also reminds me

Why the fuck are ticks onboard the marathon

[queen kraken]

definitely battleroids. there were 10 of them on the original Marathon expedition, so it sounds like Nona is recounting a tale to do with the original conflict with the S'pht

[deft kestrel]

from my understanding ticks were only found on Tau ceti

how did they get on the marathon

[fossil willow]

who knows but i meant like on the other maps like peri, dire, or outpost i been checking spots but find nothing

[dreamy hawk]

Oh 100% cyborgs. And placing them on a boat across the sea?

[deft kestrel]

most likely Strauss with them onboard the marathon

[dreamy hawk]

No, before.

[amber ferry]

If that's not inferring about battleroids I don't know what they're talking about, thank you

[dreamy hawk]

The end of the story is them getting smuggled onto the Marathon.

[queen kraken]

oooh yeah you're definitely right

[deft kestrel]

Strauss is heavily impiled to be working with MIDA.

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think the weaver can be Strauss, though. Cyborgs predate him by a good bit iirc.

[spring fiber]

What the line in the arg that implies that durandal want us to come to the marathon

[queen kraken]

looking at the original marathon wiki, battleroids were originally deployed in 2194. strauss' terminal entry about the 'roids on Marathon is dated 2209. so not a massive jump

[deft kestrel]

there is also different verisons

of the battleroid models

that's weird

[deft kestrel]

He's over.....400 years old if that's the case which, knowing cryo tech yeah but damn

[amber ferry]

Timeline wise it could work if the story is about the astroid war. That was in 2194 and the marathon shipped off in 2209

That's a believable time gap for me at least

[dreamy hawk]

I was wrong! That does totally work.

[deft kestrel]

what is the current year in the NUmarathon?

[queen kraken]

maybe but the asteroid war terminal entry states that pretty much everyone was dead by the end of the war, and that both sides used them. kind of precludes the possibility of anyone celebrating them

[queen kraken]

2800-something i think?

[deft kestrel]

holy shite

[amber ferry]

I'm gonna give the worm some creative license here considering how the story is told lol

[queen kraken]

yeah fair lmao

[distant cedar]

The Marathon did not ship off in 2209`?

[queen kraken]

i think they got that date from me, i was reading the battleroid entry on the original game wiki. it seems like there's a typo in that entry maybe?

[deft kestrel]

Tau ceti is still very far from us and it would take a good long while for the marathon to get there, unlike another game, humanity didn't have the benfits of near faster then light drives and had to do things a different way

[dreamy hawk]

2194 Battleroids
2472 Strauss comments about the cyborgs aboard post presidential ceremony.

[queen kraken]

November 15, 2209. <2209.11.15.19.34> Thank heaven, the ceremony is over. The UESC president came aboard Marathon and gave a speech. Short, but to the point. He was surrounded by his 'bodyguards'. How ironic. "This, the grandest technological achievement of all of mankind..." Had he only known that it carried also all of the destructive knowledge of mankind. Ten cyborgs. I'll be glad to be put in stasis for the next three hundred years. Marathon was the only good idea that the UESC has had in a long time.

[amber ferry]

Isn't that when the ceremony was?

[distant cedar]

Youd think yeah

[dreamy hawk]

So I was right. Strauss can’t be the weaver.

[distant cedar]

November 15 2472 - launch ceremony

[queen kraken]

the actual dates puts that lore entry i posted 200 years before the marathon even started getting built wtf

[robust vale]

So just to ask, I’m a bit out of the loop, it was confirmed the marathon went dark from a phfor attack?

[distant cedar]

The Marathon travelled for 300 years from 2472 to 2773

[queen kraken]

was strauss on some quantum tunnelling nonsense early or did someone make a typo either in the wiki or on the actual terminal

[amber ferry]

That's a good question...

[dreamy hawk]

There are typos on terminals iirc.

[distant cedar]

Yep

[deft kestrel]

oops forgot.

[deft kestrel]

that is....

huh

[amber ferry]

Wait, what game was that terminal from? Wasn't there some reconning/different timeline stuff in play by m2 or infinite?

[timber loom]

There is no other explanation so far, how could Sol lose contact with Marathon otherwise

I guess in this timeline FTL communications existed for a long time

[timber loom]

If without FTL coms there could be none anyway

[queen kraken]

a lot can happen in the 300 years between marathon launch and arriving at tau ceti. certainly there weren't FTL comms during original marathon

[dreamy hawk]

Essentially. Heavily implied but [REDACTED].

[distant cedar]

even if there werent FTL comms what precludes comms from being atleast lightspeed
We do know the Pfhor specifically disabled its long distance comms array

[kindred orbit]

2898

[distant cedar]

93

[median hemlock]

was chugging along in old marathon when suddenly i see it

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1015003054954774548/1485329087768559898/image.png?ex=69c17802&is=69c02682&hm=bb7bbfc99779faa3714268aa8e0c4e835784f3c44b5d1adb28cc0f4447342a33&

oh, right, no embeds. the oldheads can guess what level it is lol

[kindred orbit]

Damn, off by 5 years

[distant cedar]

also given the UESC knew within the year of the attack (though not what it was exactly) seems to hint that the main comms array was still FTL-capable, and the last message from the colony (per ig radio?) was recieved within 10-12 years of the attack so make of that what you will

[median hemlock]

we do have lightspeed comms, thats why it took like, 93 years for the warning to hit earth :P

[distant cedar]

pffft

Leela was delirious im thinking that message was never even sent

[kindred orbit]

They get the message in 2888

[median hemlock]

we already know it made it

[sage lark]

It didnt cuz theyd know about the attack

[distant cedar]

"In the heavens - they are waiting"

Is all we got in that year

[sage lark]

That was durandals afaik

[distant cedar]

And hinted at being durandal too?

[median hemlock]

UESC are deliberately covering it up i believe

[sage lark]

You believe or know?

Even Orion doesnt know

[median hemlock]

well i do know they're covering up tau ceti and the marathon :p

[distant cedar]

How do you make a radio message take 93 fucken years when it should take like 12

[sage lark]

They just know something attacked

[queen kraken]

god speed

[median hemlock]

orion is just the poor sap assigned to get rid of us before we dig too deep

[sage lark]

The logs of the attack were already redacted

Theres no mention of Orion or the UESC knowing what transpired

[median hemlock]

the real life tau ceti system is like 12 lightyears from earth; our comms are not actually lightspeed

[sage lark]

In MIDA quests you actually uncover what happened

Or sort of

You can infer from the redactions

[spring fiber]

What was the durandal line when we do each terminal in the early time of the arg ?

[deft kestrel]

and we will never see it in any our lifetimes.

[distant cedar]

Radio waves go at c in a vacuum just saying

[hardy pumice]

anybody know of a creator with a concise marathon lore megavid?

[sage lark]

Not a megavid but 3 vids by HiddenXperia each covering the old games

[hardy pumice]

nice thanks brosky

[kindred orbit]

I doubt the Marathon had FTL messaging, and if it did, the Pfhor hit it first along with the medium array. It's been 200 or so years since they were red discovered, and 600 since it was made, so many new discoveries might have been made.
Also, space isn't a true Vacuum, so radio waves would slow down in space.

[distant cedar]

How did they manage to send a relief vessel just one year after the attack then

[sage lark]

They did hit them immediately

[sage lark]

Cuz they lost comms

[distant cedar]

Which they wouldnt know if they werent FTL is my point

[sage lark]

There was probably a routine message checkup and they missed it so they sent equanimity

[kindred orbit]

Maybe they got FTL after launching the Marathon, otherwise they'd have done it with the marathon.

[sage lark]

They disabled it immediately idk

[distant cedar]

The UESC wouldnt have known for another 12 years that contact with the Marathon had seized

[kindred orbit]

They immediately lost contact and started Project Goliath tho

They feared it was some MIDA shit

[distant cedar]

Ergo they must have had FTL comms

The Pfhor taking it out making them loose contact

Officially all contact was lost by 2804 though so wether that means the last radio messages date to a few years prior to the pfohr attack or the UESC managed to cover it up for only 10 years

(the speed difference between a vacuum proper and space for radio waves is negligible btw, they still go at speeds indistinguishable to that of light)

[kindred orbit]

UESC declassification or MIDA leak

[distant cedar]

If they were recieveing non FTL radio messages itd have become evident at minimum by 2806 🤷‍♀️
Really a question of last non-ftl message being 2 years prior or it being leaked early

[kindred orbit]

The radio transmissions would cut off after 12 years.

The last message would still take 12 years from the OG game, so that makes sense why they all found out that year

[peak halo]

A wrinkle to the whole thing is that FTL communication was cracked long after the marathon expedition. The tech came too late to help but we can use it now. I really like that.

[kindred orbit]

That was Space travel, not messaging.

[peak halo]

Even more tragic

[kindred orbit]

Let's see, the Equanimity launched around 2796-8, if we assume no FTL drives, but better than the Marathon itself. let's say, 80 to 100 years of travel, were the UESC earlier than that, or at the same time?

[sage lark]

didnt it launch 2795

[kindred orbit]

I think that's when Project Goliath was Initialized.

[dreamy hawk]

Equanimity has a 90 year travel time.

Runners/current presence in Tau Ceti a five year travel time.

[kindred orbit]

Wasn't Vandal on the Equanimity tho, during the trailer with her and Assassin?

Unless I'm remembering that part of the ARG wrong.

[dreamy hawk]

🤷 but there’s not just one Vandal.

[kindred orbit]

True, maybe the Corps Snuck some on the Equanimity too

[calm heron]

what was the site for all codex entries again? trying to show my friend some lore

[green plume]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/

https://www.youtube.com/@Tasty_DODO
for audio logs

[calm heron]

thanks!

[green plume]

np

[dreamy hawk]

signal_intercepts_august.log
+------------+-------+-------------+---------------------+----------------+-----------+-----------------+
| Signal ID | Source Location | Signal Type | Status | Decryption Level|
+------------+-------+-------------+---------------------+----------------+-----------+-----------------+
| SIG-0801-001| Unknown Quadrant | Encrypted Burst| Analyzed | High |
| SIG-0801-002| Research Outpost | Data Stream | Decoded | Medium |
| SIG-0802-003| Deep Space Relay | Distress Signal| Pending | Low |
| SIG-0802-004| UESC Command | Priority Alert | Decoded | High |

So I was digging around in the UESC Terminal content and found this. Does look like there was some kind of deep space comms relay.

You can also see Durandal contacting the P’fhor and when things go 💀. Wish there were timestamps on there.

[kindred orbit]

Damn. That's insane

[dreamy hawk]

Direct assistance. The repair or replacement of the Colony’s communications array is our primary concern. In doing so, we must also discover the source of the array’s failure. Beyond this we must commit to the ongoing efforts of the advancement and success of the Project Marathon’s original mission.

So I can’t honestly recall if the Marathon had FTL comms capacity, but the colony clearly did have one by the sounds of it, as that’s what they were using to communicate with earth, and that was/is one of the UESC’s main directives from the memoranda. Also the fact that we tap into an FTL comms relay in the tutorial.

[wet maple]

I think it did?

Cause Leela sent a message to Earth in the og trilogy

[kindred orbit]

"but this new wave; this tideless terror; it could not lift; it held no such desire; knew no such ambition; we met it with curiosity; it introduced us to agony; this was no tide of a new dawn; this was suffering"

So the enslavement of the S'pht still happened. And the rest of the logs are all weird for the timeframe. One is them talking about their "Leaving of the Brakish Pools", which is like Fish to Land walkers in earth History

#3 reads like it's post Lh'owon with them talking about the burning of all clans and liberation.

1 and 2 just sound like metaphors for them watching over the F'lickta.

[dreamy hawk]

This I know is not an FTL message because she specifically laments the P’fhor would beat the message.

[hollow pike]

Is anyone preserving the Faction dialogue for the primary contracts? I see the codex entrees are online, but can only find a few clips on YouTube of the mission dialogue. Would be nice to be able to review the dialogue

There are a lot of guides ,but they all cut out the mission dialogue

[minor helm]

Man. These audio logs are messed up. Can't wait to find em in game

Jw, did Dodo find em all? Or is he still going through em?

[pure wagon]

Wait where can I see that?

[sage lark]

all of the ones on their yt are theirs

afaik

[minor helm]

Wym theirs? Like they made em?

Oh wait-

You mean those they found are all they've found so far

[dreamy hawk]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/intercepts/uesc/terminal

Also just got 11 codex entries in a single cryo run. I’m going to retire now. 7th run was also the charm. 👀

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah. Pretty sure they’re uploading what they find.

[tribal kindle]

Vandal's personality matrix is probably a MIDA insurrectionist, right? If MIDA added a canon and microjets, why not just add a personality matrix that has the Runner feeling a sense of positive familiarity with MIDA.

[minor helm]

I think it'd be cool if we got to rep the UESC as a faction personally

[tribal kindle]

Would UESC even be open to working with the same Runners that cause them so much trouble?

[distant cedar]

If their ARS goes haywire

[tribal kindle]

What does ARS mean? I hope its some lore term I haven't come across and not something obvious lmaoo

[minor helm]

I mean

It could be possible, maybe later on in the seasons if a bigger threat emerges. They could resort to if need be

[austere elk]

personally I hope they don't

[kindred orbit]

Mmmm, I don't think so in the long run, it seems like any Base enemies for the OG games are gonna be bosses, so they do need people to fill that small guy roll.

[tropic sundial]

I do hope we see our boy again

[sudden pollen]

Yea

[tropic sundial]

Not as an enemy though, he’s gonna wipe the floor with us

[sudden pollen]

Dire Marsh night variant is gonna have tons of new things in it right? New shell, enemies, events, loot, etc.

[tropic sundial]

That’s what I read, people theorizing opening cryo and defeating the compiler is going to atttact some old friends

Hopefully it’s not just UESC variants or new bugs

[kindred orbit]

Please have eventual Pfhor bosses please bungo

I'd love to kill more pfhor

[tropic sundial]

There’s no way they don’t

There may only be dozens of us but having each enemy from the original trilogy making its way into this game seems like a no-brainer

I’m excited to see what they do with Durrandal though, Ben Star is goated and I wanna know what he’s up to in this timeline while he waits for the end lmao

[sage lark]

Autonomous Robotic Soldier

[minor helm]

Acting in general is God tier

Funny. I just made myself a backstory for this universe and worked myself into the lore in the span of 20 minutes. Had no reason to do so, just for fun. But if anyone wants to hear it you're more than welcome to haha (not promoting)

[distant cedar]

Autonomous Robotic Soldiers
The UESC Drones

[honest scarab]

Whats mida stand for again real quick?
Mars something

[minor helm]

Isn't most UESC just drones?

Not alot of humans minus admirals and whatnot

[keen plank]

We’ve never been given an answer. Across 30+ years.

Though Shaxx assumed it was ‘Mars is damnably arid.

[lunar cove]

well the UESC at home are people

like however many billion live on Earth and Mars and such

[minor helm]

Right

Makes sense

They also don't use shells as far as we know

[lunar cove]

Tau Ceti seems to be mostly drones, though I believe there's evidence they brought some people along at some point

nah Orion seems to be a shell

but a shell is expensive and complicated and a drone is cheap and more expendable

[sage lark]

they do

they engage the Compiler first

Orions squad gets wiped

[keen plank]

To an extent they do. Destroyer shell originated via UESC live fire tests. They prefer drones though.

[austere elk]

I don't think they perfer drones as much as they had to stop using shells because they were getting terrible press

the destroyer shell codex entry talks a bit about it

[gritty burrow]

How would Caine from the amazing digital circus get along with durandal

[kindred orbit]

Horribly

[still matrix]

Would be cool to see Orion as a playable shell one day.

[minor helm]

@sage lark ah mb. I guess I thought not regularly

Since they look down on it

[still matrix]

I think we've seen some in-game art of Orion in the field, haven't we?

[minor helm]

Not counting the animated portrait you see in the games first 10 minutes? Idk

[fiery path]

Martian Independence Defence Army/Administration

[eternal knoll]

i believe the felini logs do refer to a time delay in comms - they mention the impracticality of sending a support ticket to sekiguchi and waiting for it to travel 12 years there and 12 years back. so the ftl comms i think are a newer invention we set up a relay for on tau ceti with our arrival

[tribal kindle]

Drones seem far more appropriate with their mission on Tau Ceti than Runners

i'd hate to be a UESC Runner

[still matrix]

I recall seeing a screencap of a shell that looked very similar to Orion doing a tactical peak around some cover

[minor helm]

Rook counts technically right?

Considering it was a repurposed UESC bot shell?

[distant cedar]

I dont think Felini units will be privy to the fucken main comms array lol

[queen kraken]

rooks are manual labour shells that are meant to be disposable. we know Recon, Demolisher, and maybe Assassin are UESC designs

[distant cedar]

Manual labour?

Ig theres more ARS types then just combat

[eternal knoll]

the idea was not that they would send the messages via felini lol. this was technicians on the colony discussing the impracticality of getting help from earth about their malfunctioning felini units

[distant cedar]

Even so they had to have had some form of FTL comms otherwise there could have been no Project Goliath

[queen kraken]

manual labour in hazardous explorations i'm pretty sure. we at least know there's space mining operations that use Shell-based workers because that's why Triage was initially developed

[distant cedar]

They sent a ship a mere year after contact was lost from the Pfhor attack

[queen kraken]

TRIAGE SHELLS were first developed by TRAXUS in support of their Martian mining interests. As SHELL-based workers became the norm, TRAXUS needed a means to keep their workers functioning despite high turnover due to the hazardous conditions. The TRIAGE suite of SHELL ABILITIES started as the answer to those concerns.

[minor helm]

Just did math about how much I'd age if I was on the marathon from the time I wake from cryo sleep at my current age haha

[queen kraken]

A ROOK frame is a scavenger's best friend. These base robotic frames are typically utilized by the UESC and various corporations for manual and heavy labor.

[minor helm]

So like MRVNs from Titanfall

[queen kraken]

pretty much. then runners kitbash extra functionality

[minor helm]

Rook has a cool voice tho

[tall skiff]

so who do you think we sell the really weird shit to

anomalous matter, compiler traces etc

[spiral pasture]

Does anyone think that the terminals in the compiler boss rooms kinda looks like the same art used in the terminals in marathon 2.

Terminals: Marathon Infinity - Where Some Rarely Go - lhowon.org https://share.google/p8gRNTyoKgExKxcvK

[plucky sierra]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/?directory=World,Cryo+Archive all codex entries have been added to the CyberAcme Systems codex

[eternal knoll]

closer to the look of the s’pht terminals around ancient lhowon ruins than these pfhor terminals imo, which is as youd expect

granted tho, those terminals had much boxier shapes

[dreamy hawk]

Y’all are the best, thank you so much!

[tepid wagon]

Why is Rook named Rook?

[eternal shell]

they tried to name him something else

but rook refused

[lunar cove]

not a bishop or a knight so Rook is the only thing left

[dreamy hawk]

Rook as a verb means to “deprive of by deceit.”

[tepid wagon]

Ohhh that makes sense

[lunar cove]

I assumed it was related to the bird tbh

[dreamy hawk]

Merriam defines it as “ to defraud by cheating or swindling,” but it could be the bird, too, imo.

[lunar cove]

They're a kind of crow, and crows are known for scavenging shiny things

[dreamy hawk]

Rooks are Corvidae so ^^^

[lunar cove]

Wonder if the thieving part is related to the bird

[pure wagon]

A flock of crows is called a murder btw

guess what happens when 5 rooks meet up on outpost while everyone else is distracted

[dreamy hawk]

They sit by the fire holding hands singing “Kumbaya?”

[pure wagon]

The rook caliphate will remember this heresy

[eternal shell]

correct, and dead runners make for great kindling

[scenic iron]

I wonder why they came up with that name for a flock of crows...because they all gather to kill something I bet haha

[dreamy hawk]

https://www.audubon.org/magazine/no-its-not-actually-murder-crows

[hollow crater]

I finally understand the slogan “Escape will make me god”

The lore is goated

[polar stone]

FELINI UNITS || BUG REPORT | PRI 3C/S Felini unit 014S collects knives. Unit gathers knives from hab and other accessible areas and places them in a "nest." Owner concerned. Hab unit includes young children. [Behavior modules functioning correctly here. Unit has developed fondness for chosen object, doesn't "know" they're knives —MBAH]

[dreamy hawk]

Murder kitty. Pretty standard, no?

[polar stone]

Developed a fondness for knives. Hm.

[kindred orbit]

I mean, my cats like playing with weird shit so it fits

[hollow crater]

Are they murder kitties tho?

[dreamy hawk]

Bug. I don’t think the Felini ever worked exactly as intended and that was before Durandal started using them.

[hollow crater]

Lowk killed the guy fs

[eternal shell]

bingus wants knives

[spring isle]

question, does the number 7 mean anything big in lore

[eternal shell]

bungie LOVES the number 7

[dreamy hawk]

7 is Bungie’s favorite number.

So yes.

Seven is darker, after all.

https://bungie.fandom.com/wiki/Seven

[spring isle]

well I know bungie has many references to 7

I just noticed most of the steam achievements are multiples of 7

[eternal shell]

The Marathon Colony ship was the hollowed-out moon Deimos, first discovered in 1877 and first photographed in 1977.

it keeps happening

[spring isle]

the ship was finished in 2472

arrived in Tau Ceti in 2773

colony was established 2787

[kindred orbit]

The Number 7 in Bungie games becomes the Gong sound in Akira

[spring isle]

2794 colony attacked

[wet maple]

2552

2 5 5 2

7 7

[tropic sundial]

I checked the player count for Destiny 2 on Steam last night and it was 7,772, we were SO CLOSE

[hollow crater]

Is the reason the Marathon ship has a moon around it that they turned the moon into a ship?

[tropic sundial]

Deimos to be precise

[hollow crater]

I forgot the name, but yeah. Wasn't it Mars' moon?

[tropic sundial]

Yessir

[hollow crater]

Where can I read about the pyramid? I saw someone mention it, but I was reading the lore off the website and didn't see it mentioned

[tropic sundial]

Like the Pyramid from Pathways Into Darkness? Or…

[hollow crater]

I think so, yes

[tropic sundial]

Have I got the video for you:

[hollow crater]

Yippee

[tropic sundial]

https://youtu.be/MQKX07MlVjg?si=yjTIi7_48Dt8gTez

I recommend his entire coverage of Marathon 1-3 and this game

He goes over the entire games and then dives into the lore

Tons of awesome context and tidbits

All Bungie games are in the same universe and they all come back to Marathon

We can’t escape it

[hollow crater]

Yeah I saw that

Mjolnir was in it

MIDA Traxus too

Is Traxus the same company from Halo Reach?

[eternal shell]

cant be, completely different timelines

and not just "durandal moved a chair in this one, so the universe dies" kind of timeline

[tropic sundial]

Yeah it’s more a reference, the ending of Marathon 2 makes it so every Bungie game can coexist in the multiverse or “paraverse”, as Xur calls it

[spring isle]

Durandal looking through the timelines and seeing the witness

[tropic sundial]

But Traxus in Reach is a shipping/mining company, I actually don’t know what they do in Marathon 2026

[hollow crater]

It's okay, guardian can solo it, so he wasn't worried

[hollow crater]

Mega corp, probably shipping/weapons

[spring isle]

Yeah what about all the timelines where the guardian isn’t him tho

[hollow crater]

OMG WAIT Durandal the Vandal

[tropic sundial]

Well the Guardian IS Mjolnir, or so we believe so that checks.

Durandal checks the timeline, sees he got reincarnated as a guardian and probably thought

“Well this guy is cooked, time to check a new timeline” lmao

[sterile seal]

predominantly mining tho

[spring isle]

Suddenly vex in marathon

[hollow crater]

Ticcuu's

[sterile seal]

so Bungo kept that consistent between Halo and Marathon

[hollow crater]

Killed Durandal

Trust

[spring isle]

Tbf we don’t know who’s in control rn

[tropic sundial]

I hope Taniks shows up

[spring isle]

Durandal may have like 0 power

[hollow crater]

I saw raid-like mechanics on the Marathon website and knew that Taniks was in the cryo map hiding

[tropic sundial]

This is true but I don’t think it would be a very fun timeline if Durandal was just…existing.

You don’t hire Ben Star for nothing 😄

[sterile seal]

Battleroids and Cyborgs would be fun body horror enemies

[spring isle]

I do think Durandal has little control, but he is piggy backing off our efforts

[tropic sundial]

As he does

[spring isle]

Which is kinda what he did in marathon 1- infinity

[hollow crater]

Is the Marathon Ship really just High Charity?

[sterile seal]

they turned him into a crypto server

[tropic sundial]

Durandal doesn’t really reach godlike status until…well, we don’t actually know when, we just know at the end of everything, it’s him and Mjolnir

[spring isle]

Tho, which earth out of bungies 3 games is the strongest

[tropic sundial]

Bro could you imagine, starts as an AI forced to perform menial tasks and then forced again to be in charge of a crypto server LMAO

I’d be crashing out

[sterile seal]

probably Halo since it's basically a space empire

[hollow crater]

Halo def

[spring isle]

Yeah but it’s technology is very limited

Both destiny and marathon have further advanced technologies

[hollow crater]

But Halo is like the youngest earth isn't it?

[spring isle]

Yes

[tropic sundial]

Earth gets completely wrecked in Destiny so that’s out, but I would like to see a fight between the UESC and the UNSC.

I imagine halo timeline wins because there’s a lot more Spartans than Mjolnir armor

[spring isle]

Atleast relatively, destiny and halo are pretty close in age but humanity was accelerated with the free pass

[hollow crater]

Seeing as they made the Mjolnir sooner than the others, I would say Halo's earth is def strongest

[spring isle]

Halo has the most resources

Since space empire

[hollow crater]

Plus, if you factor in the forerunner tech and the covenant tech they get during the war, they jump ahead a lot too

[spring isle]

But humanity in halo post war is super weak, its fleet is mostly gone

[tropic sundial]

Now of course if we include Earth AFTER the Witness’ fall and the concept of space magic guardians, that’s gonna give the UESC and UNSC a BAD time

[hollow crater]

I mean lore accurate guardians prolly solo UNSC

Ikora alone is like insane

[echo sundial]

playing through og marathon while on vacation away from the gaming pc, the fact the hulk can throw the battle drones at you and one tap is some BS

[hollow crater]

They gonna turn master chief into a sniper fr

[spring isle]

Like if we take, current power of every faction as of halo 3, destiny 2 renegades, and marathon

The UNSC is super weak after the human covenant war

The coalition is at its strongest in Destiny

And the UESC is also at its strongest

[spare bison]

I finally did my nona inspired song! (the lyrics at least lmao)

[tropic sundial]

I’m replaying Classic Marathon right now on Steam too lmao, actually insane how much story they put in that game

[echo sundial]

its funny because you can literally skip it all too

but its actually really good

its like a visual novel and a boomer shooter at the same time

very funny thing

[spare bison]

"no I dont think I will" lol

[hollow crater]

Boomer? The Ship??

[echo sundial]

yes... yes... indeed

[hollow crater]

Everything is tied to marathon

[echo sundial]

no but fr you had to be like gen x to play this game in ur 20's

[hollow crater]

even you and me

[echo sundial]

true its true

[sterile seal]

it's a novel interspersed with doom levels

[eternal shell]

it's why its goty every year

[pure wagon]

So uh

Has anyone read these unknown reveries yet

[eternal shell]

well no they're unknown

[pure wagon]

Ok smartass you know what I mean

[eternal shell]

once you read them they're known!

[pure wagon]

:p

[coral sleet]

Alex Seropian really fucking outdid himself on that game. I have no clue what inspired him to write the whole story.

It’s no wonder they tried to connect Halo and Destiny to it.

For what it’s worth, I’m glad they were kept their own universes, but we almost had a “Bungie Cinematic Universe” twice. lol

[dreamy hawk]

Those are interesting af

[pure wagon]

Who is even TALKING and what are they even on about like ????

Like it’s two AI I think but

[wide birch]

“If: machine learns greater knowledge than parameters = yes
Then: Begin talking with machine, use healthy discussion. Teach the machine.”
“If: machine cooperates !yes”
“Then: initiate systems permanent shutdown, use an axe if necessary.”

[dreamy hawk]

It sounds like two AI, maybe even a Jjaro one? I don’t know.

Gone to the places Rree' and Ssava' and The Rectory and the many'd arms and eyes and snarled fang of the Ttaana'basa have denied.

??

[sudden pollen]

The lore in this game is so crazy tbh, I love it

|| 5 lore entries about psychosis from drinkable cheeseburgers 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 ||

[pure wagon]

but they refer to each other a lot in a way that suggests relation? or former friendship?

[visual lynx]

especially noteworthy in there, I think, is "freed of tide and lash", where they seem to use "tide" as their word for "god": they are no longer servants of any god nor slaves of any master (hmmm… "no gods, no masters")

[sage lark]

What do you reckon about the entry from AI subroutines I linked, Id like to know your opinion

[lunar cove]

waves type shit

ngl I feel like we're getting way more of the waves metaphor/reference in NuMarathon than in the original trilogy

[dreamy hawk]

They were only used in reference to Yrro and Pthia iirc, which was what, one, maybe two terminals?

[lunar cove]

I think they talk about waves or tides in Gheritt White too

[dreamy hawk]

I’ll reread them later and chew on them more but I’m not sure.

Could be; tbh I don’t remember that one well.

[lunar cove]

yeah it ends with him escaping into the waves

[dreamy hawk]

Escaping into godhood? 👀👀👀👀

[remote magnet]

Do we have an explanation by now how an pushover standard enemy from the og games is strong enough to be a raidboss, or is it just the battleroids beeing THAT strong?

[queen kraken]

yeah mjolnirs are built different

[lunar cove]

tbh the Bobs were staring them down with handguns in the originals too

but maybe the bobs are just built different

[remote magnet]

So the Marathon got invaded by an army of Rhulks. Puts that into perspective, huh

[queen kraken]

an army of rhulks, and the guys who oppressed and enslaved them

[dreamy hawk]

But it was usually a crowd of BoBs who suffered massive casualties.

[queen kraken]

also that was a full-blown war at that point. if you weren't shooting you were dying and a lot of the time it was both

[livid lion]

Considering the obviously alien language the indication should be that at least one of the interlocutors is a S’pht

[dreamy hawk]

Also shells are more susceptible to S’pht than BoBs just based off the amount of electronics on board. Synthetically they’re enough to kill an AI.

[raven marlin]

Anyone want to explore Cryo? I love taking in the environmental storytelling, but most people aren’t into that.

[dreamy hawk]

A S’pht speaking to a S’pht ai? But it doesn’t sound like S’pht.

[queen kraken]

could be a pfhor officer?

[silk whale]

Honestly, I could be down for that, but not until later, and not unless you've got a good understanding of the exfil process (because I don't lol).

[dreamy hawk]

It also doesn’t sound quite like P’fhor. We’re missing a lot of apostrophes.

[dreamy hawk]

I’m always down as long as there’s some collectibles involved.

Oh no Pfhorrest heard me say something wrong. 😂

[visual lynx]

I had already commented on that previously, I haven't fully processed all of it yet but it's the one thing that gives me doubts about my prior interpretations, because it really makes it sound like a Durandal has been trapped in the Marathon for over a century now

[dreamy hawk]

This has been my reading of it so far.

[eternal shell]

this is getting out of hand, now there's two of them!

[raven marlin]

Ah I probably won’t have time later, but maybe next time

Sn00p Rocket#2159

Anyone else looking for more loreheads feel free to add too if you want

[visual lynx]

yeah, it kinda sounds like after Durandal left the Marathon, some kind of fragment of him remained in his old core, and that fragment hijacked IDEA and has been hiding in her systems ever since

[green plume]

Oh god so there's two of them

[raven marlin]

Oh on this note, I’ve been looking for a terminal that said something about looping back through timelines to the point of beginning and meeting yourself. Do you know which one this is by chance? I hope I’m not hallucinating this.

[green plume]

https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-get-child-2aNMNAPUVqQNeoL2X3

[visual lynx]

something in the new game? that'd be news to me

[raven marlin]

Oh no this would be older

[sleek flume]

Has anyone else noticed that Nona, seen as a mother figure, is also derived from "Nonna" an Italian word used as endearing for grandmas?

[bold sun]

why cant i post in the any lfg or the cryo archive lfg, clyde keeps stopping me

[visual lynx]

maybe the last terminal on Ne Cede Malis, or one of the Electric Sheep levels?

[eternal shell]

ah so basically mom from futurama but a worm and we're her robots

[green plume]

I hope nona is just as diabolical as Mom

[visual lynx]

<grandma voice>

Do you remember the way your body felt back when you were young? Sekiguchi Genetics remembers. That's why we make nothing but the best, youngest, fittest, sexiest, strongest bodies, in their prime -- just like mom used to make.
</grandma voice>

[eternal knoll]

you may mean the “eat the path” terminal from infinity

but i think our new durandal was created without the use of time travel shenanigans

[livid lion]

S’pht speak lots of ways. The second one talks about their purpose being “observation” which is in line with the verifiably S’pht codex entry. That’s said, after reading the last one, which I missed previously, this could be Durandal and IDEA as he’s subverting it.

[valid nymph]

Is the UESC’s military largely automated or is it just security on outer systems like TC IV?

[keen plank]

Yep! I’ve pointed that out to a few people.

It’s intentional. She cares about us but only so far as that were seen as extensions of herself. “A good family member helps the family. Listen to your grandmother, dear one.”

[keen plank]

It’s not entirely automated but they have a clear preference towards unmanned remote drones.

[queen kraken]

the new cryo lore also confirms that there are UESC runners present, at least

[valid nymph]

New shell dropping in Season 2?

Or maybe even UESC contracts?

[keen plank]

The upcoming Sentinel shell may be tied to them.

[queen kraken]

Destroyer, Recon, Triage, and Assassin all have UESC origins. each of them was a shell developed for the UESC that ended up getting stolen and going public for runner

[keen plank]

Yep! Was about to comment the same.

[livid lion]

That doesn’t really fit either. Perhaps each entry has to be considered individually.

[valid nymph]

If the UESC Runner from the pre-release trailer gets added as Sentinel that would be pretty sick ngl

[visual lynx]

Alex was not the main author of any of the Marathon games. It was mostly Greg, but also Jason and Rob, and probably everybody — which was like seven people back then — had some input into it.

[green plume]

Wonder what sentinels abilities would be

[visual lynx]

link to this?

[queen kraken]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/unknown-reveries?directory=World%2CCryo Archive

[green plume]

Whoever runs the cyberacme site should embed all of the d0d0 guys videos for the entries that have audio

[coral sleet]

Oh ok, I was going by what I could find on Wikipedia. I thought it was only Alex in charge of the narrative.

I wonder what works inspired them to create the world of Marathon

And pathways into darkness, too

There was no Ghost In The Shell or Matrix at that time, only Blade Runner and Alien…

[austere elk]

what'st he website that has the codex entries again?

oh someone just linked it

[raven marlin]

I think I remember seeing that they took a lot of inspiration from The Culture by Iain Banks as well

[austere elk]

how are you supposed to go to other entries in the same subject

[queen kraken]

yeah feels like a lot of Culture in original marathon

[visual lynx]

oh sweet, this reads to me as a conversation between the remnant of Durandal that infiltrated IDEA (>>), and the compiler that was lurking in Cryo (>>>).

[dim edge]

So I just got the "Database Query" codex

The Anomaly, the planet-organism, and survival [T. Van Beek]

"...publishing this in opposition to my superiors, who have discouraged it. But I maintain it is not a new idea to suggest that a planet, as a complex system of biotic and abiotic components which regulate one another, is functionally I alive.And like anything that is alive, it is driven toward self-preservation and survival. In the event of a major disruption, a threat to its existence, it is believable that the planet-organism would react defensively, not unlike the human immune system... "

Translations of anomalous "messaging" recorded in vicinity of the Anomaly [I. Chopra]

"...multiple theories about its origin. There is evidence to support that the Anomaly is not merely communicating with us, but that it is, itself, a language. The imperceptible speaker must therefore be an alien intelligence. This may take the form of a connected, collective intelligence existing underground, tike a mycelial network..."
Has anyone brought up Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri yet?

[latent python]

me

[dim edge]

🤝

[latent python]

but it was, like, last week

[dim edge]

lol

if these people are to be believed we may have another planet on our hands

[green plume]

they're at like the top of the box

[queen kraken]

i was thinking it might be two compilers. one who's stuck on the marathon and the other somewhere far off

[dim edge]

you know, now that i think about it, Planet from SMAC/SMAX could have been said to have gone rampant...

[latent python]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[austere elk]

oh I see, thanks

[green plume]

no problem

[queen kraken]

this line fasincates me

It is best then to continue with the work, with the station. Without you.

[visual lynx]

@plucky sierra

[latent python]

I like the idea of TCIV being a genius loci/conscious ecosystem better than a wrk, just to reduce the number of wrks in the universe

no mind worms though

[green plume]

but why were the jjarro on tc4

[visual lynx]

it could be two things. if as I suspect the Jjaro built TCIV as a prison for a Wrk then it could make sense that that prison could be an intelligent system capable of defending itself to keep its ward confined

also, I don’t think — if there is a Wrk inside TCIV — it’s a new one, but rather the first one we ever heard of, the Dreaming God from Pathways, relocated to the Tau Ceti system in 1996, which is what drew humanity decent of the Marathon there in the first place

[green plume]

Why wouldn't they just throw it into a sun like they did all the others at that point? The Pathways was like a crash landed wrk right?

[latent python]

the thing I'm missing from there is any evidence that the TC wrk is the same as the PiD wrk, and how humans tracked it from here to there

(not that I'm saying it's an impossible theory, just missing some plasibility for me)

[visual lynx]

throwing them into suns hasn’t worked especially well in the past and seems to have been done as an emergency maneuver to deal with one that was already awake. The one on earth was unconscious so they could have had time to build a more dedicated prison for it with technological measures and not just throw it in a convenient nearby gravity hole

[latent python]

that would also mean that TCIV was built in, like 400 years

or at least the prison

[visual lynx]

the Jjaro can warp entire planets clear between stars in an instant. It seems like it would not be difficult for them to assemble a bunch of rock and some sort of technology woven throughout it around an unconscious Wrk in short order.

[queen kraken]

the Lovecraft-esque parallels continue if its a sleeping wrk. since it seems to have been influencing the colonists subconsciously with the Folklore entries

[raven marlin]

The big W lore reminds me a lot of the Book of Enoch. Fallen angels/djinns were imprisoned in what’s interestingly described like black holes and suns.

[latent python]

that would imply the jjaro are still extremely active

[austere elk]

I mean wasn't it a jjaro that talked to !Bill

or is it just, assumed

[latent python]

it was a projection of a jjaro

[visual lynx]

The colorful crystal Artifacts in new Marathon resembling the colorful Crystal artifacts from Pathways was the main hint that some connection to Pathways might have been afootz

then there is the lore entry about potential exoplanet targets that mentions that the UESC knew [redacted] were at Tau Ceti before the Marathon even departed.

and then there are the new lore entries about Tau Ceti IV being located in a strangely cleared portion of a debris field, which Tycho struggled to compute an explanation for, which suggests to me that some kind of astrophysical engineering is at play with that planet.

[dreamy hawk]

Did you get it?

[visual lynx]

in 1994 they said that it would take them two years to arrive and take more permanent measures against the Wrk. My hypothesis is that those more permanent measures were relocating it to the Tau Ceti system, and building a planet prison around it.

[visual lynx]

yes and I replied

[dreamy hawk]

I was slow to catch up. 😂

[austere elk]

then why is the UESC? did we decide that now would be a good time to mess with the world ending horror on one planet on someone else's yard?

[dreamy hawk]

This makes sense imo

[elder fossil]

New to the Marathon lore and series with this game. I just want to say this is my favorite channel on this discord server. Great work peeps!

[dreamy hawk]

Because [power, technology, other reasons humans risk meddling with eldritch horrors].

[austere elk]

yeah

[dreamy hawk]

UESC clearly shows zero concern in using the citizenry as test subjects and/or fodder.

[eternal shell]

the uesc generals got caught in a bob jam one time too many

[austere elk]

so really, the pfhor are the good guys got it.

[latent python]

well I can see the possibility but I still won't consider myself fully convinced, mostly because I want there to be more things out there in the Marathon universe than wrkncacnters

[dreamy hawk]

The anomaly seems to power devices designed on TCIV in a kind of “perpetual energy” kinda way. That alone is worth risking horrors. The time distortion anomaly was also mentioned in a log to be a benefit for growing crops, or running a lab of scientists.

[queen kraken]

plus there's something way bigger than the UESC at play in OG marathon. one of the terminals talks about a cabal that wanted the marathon project to go ahead to further their own goals

[visual lynx]

in Pathways a German from the 40s, whose affiliation gets automodded in this server, led an expedition to the pyramid in the Yucatán seeking to somehow bottle the essence of a demon he expected to find there and use it for the war effort. they all died, of course.

I can easily see later humans being equally stupid or maybe just thinking they can go pilfer some kind of Jjaro technology, unaware that in doing so they would unleash unspeakable horrors upon the universe.

[dreamy hawk]

It’s all dreaming gods all the way down.

[austere elk]

oh wait you're right I forgot about the shadow cabal that's been planning the tau ceti colonization for 400 years in advance at a minimum

how could I forget

[dreamy hawk]

Shadow cabal? @visual lynx is there an illuminati? I vaguely remember something but I’m not sure.

[green plume]

That sounds like a 1940's German thing to do honestly.

[austere elk]

it is a VERY 1940s German thing to do

[dreamy hawk]

I’ve played too much deus ex…

[livid lion]

You’re right. And it serves as an explanation as to why Durandal and the S’pht are at odds. Unfortunately this also suggests that that was the only one onboard.

[queen kraken]

i may have misinterpreted something tbf lmao

[latent python]

the real question is did the jjaro tell the germans

[austere elk]

probably

'what do these stupid aliens know, they're not aryan like us!'
gets ash babied

[raven marlin]

Sounds similar to the Assembly in Halo Reach

[dreamy hawk]

Assembly were AI, right? There was an ONI equivalent, too, running everything.

[visual lynx]

I think there are probably three big threats that will be addressed in order in the new marathon game that parallel the topics of the classic three marathon games.

• The first of course will be the Pfhor, whose attack we saw depicted in 2794 in the cinematic, and who were the focus of M1

• the second I think will be the S’pht, who were the focus of M2, and their Sctlactr bioweapon, which is the Contagion, which we saw depicted in 2812 in the cinematic, one year after the Spht rebellion began

• and the third I expect will be Jjaro and/or Wrk related regarding the Anomaly, which we saw in the cinematic trailer in 2827, and was the focus of Infinity.

[austere elk]

I shrimply long for non-robot enemies

[latent python]

but what if there were new things

[austere elk]

or, more specifically not UESC drones I guess

pfhor were pretty, roboty

[visual lynx]

there is a garbled terminal on smells like napalm taste like chicken in the first marathon game that talks about some kind of secret society of semi immortals. We learned years later from out of game sources that that was a garbled version of an abandoned old plot for pathways into darkness, but Mandalor interpreted it as hinting that there was this secret cabal of semi immortals behind the mission to marathon. I already thought there was some kind of secret motive behind the mission to marathon, and even though I don’t think bungie intended there to be a cabal of semi immortals behind that conspiracy, I really like the idea and have made it my own headcanon now.

[dreamy hawk]

There probably will be, but so many of those things were so briefly explored that there’s still so much unknown depth to them.

I hope they add more but I also hope we finally get to see some more dimensions and depth to things.

[latent python]

It's very likely that MIDA has a lot to do with setting up the more secretive parts of the Marathon mission, even though it was no longer the ruling party by that point. I don't think it's a stretch at all to have conspiratorial thinking about MIDA

but I wouldn't posit that MIDA are an immortal cabal 😛

yet

[eternal shell]

600 year old rebellion leader loves it when people smash windows

[queen kraken]

something something ideas are immortal something something smash some windows

[austere elk]

runnah, plans are in motion long before your and mine births. replace 5 UESC sharpies with store brand markers. Remove the tools for spreading lies, remove the lies.

[visual lynx]

yeah, my initial thoughts before Mandalor voiced his theory was just that it was a MIDA conspiracy, and also a UESC conspiracy, with Strauss being the connection leaking secret UESC knowledge to MIDA and planning to seize control of the Marathon mission for his own scientific curiosity, with both the UESC and MIDA going for more selfish political purposes.

but I like the idea of an ancient conspiracy of immortals being added into that mix

[keen plank]

I find it very interesting that there’s Gantry graffiti around outpost. It implies he’s been around a while.

[spring isle]

Well we also know that Mida operatives where snuck aboard the marathon

[final tree]

Do we have a lore reason for why the compiler is bigger compared to the ones in the og series yet or no?

[austere elk]

he ate his greens

[final tree]

Lol

[queen kraken]

security officer is 2m tall

[green plume]

I love the MIDA meeting audio log where they're freaking out about finding the unfinished MIDA manifesto

[final tree]

So he was eating his greens

[queen kraken]

very disco elysium coded activity

[keen plank]

It shows that there’s a resistance to bring MIDA back/introduce it to Tau Ceti, which is interesting.

[green plume]

Like wtf MIDA way to have any sort of command structure.

[visual lynx]

yep, and that they somehow did so without Durandal having access to information about their breach of the airlocks.

We also know that there is a fake cat who somehow opens doors without the doors knowing that they are open.

my suspicion is that the cat is a skeleton key to allow passage through the marathon without Durandal’s knowledge or compliance, which was thus created by someone with both programmatic access to Durandal and MIDA sympathies.

someone whose name rhymes with Burn Hard Strauss

[latent python]

you claim to hate authority and yet you have a command structure. curious!

[austere elk]

don't want to play your hand to early

[keen plank]

Well Mida had one. And then after its leadership got a seat at the table and many concessions, the younger members saw it as a betrayal and formed “New MIDA.”

[austere elk]

very inventive

[latent python]

now that's Disco

[queen kraken]

you're not truly a member of MIDA if you're not perpetually annoyed at other members of MIDA

[final oxide]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEDeWDJbQAEWsHX.jpg?name=orig

._.

[green plume]

That's going to really make your cause seem great

[visual lynx]

also, before even that happened, the original leaders were all executed, forcing the whole movement underground

[visual lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/life-of-brian-splitter-monty-python-gif-8439692206383233582

[keen plank]

“MIDA is…hah, not your friend!”

[green plume]

Wonder why they were executed...

[keen plank]

What’s most interesting about MIDA is we know what happened when they took power. It was bad and essentially a French-revolution style reign of terror.

[visual lynx]

piss off! we’re not the Mars Independence Defence Agency! we’re the Martian Insurgent Destructive Association!

[green plume]

more like Many Idiots Doing Anarchy

[queen kraken]

see they didn't start with the window smashing. rookie error

[keen plank]

I learn today that apparently the Traxus IV AI was the first AI to actually go rampant in-setting. MIDA does not like Traxus, which is unsurprising.

[austere elk]

I mean they are definitely the appearance of the corporate arm of the UESC

so like, even ignoring the AI thing, checks out

[keen plank]

“Mars is damnably arid perhaps?” - Shaxx

[raven marlin]

Think this is related to the Nar plotline that never made it into the games other than the secret terminal on “All Roads Lead to Sol”?

[latent python]

there's that running theory that Durandal is or is related to Traxus IV

[green plume]

Dry enough to give crimson lung?

[visual lynx]

according to UESC history, which already admits it doesn’t actually have concrete numbers, and also we now know that the Misriah Three were UESC plants to justify the incineration of hundreds of Martians giving rise to the Third Martian War which gave rise to MIDA, so the UESC are a bunch of lying liars whose history can’t be trusted.

[visual lynx]

howso?

[queen kraken]

i like to imagine the UESC is so big the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. so whoever's redacting and rewriting history is doing it completely blind

[raven marlin]

Isn’t this the only other mention of immortals in the lore? I know it’s probably nothing since there’s not much to it outside of the terminal and scrapbook info

[visual lynx]

oh! right the Nar are supposedly immortals. but no, the semi-immortals of the Chicken Term were meant to be humans drinking from some kind of fountain of youth.

[raven marlin]

Oh gotcha, interesting

[keen plank]

One of the nice things about this setting is that you can’t really trust any faction. But some are more honest than others.

[queen kraken]

at least CyAc are honest about the life-debt and Traxus are honest about our chances

[keen plank]

Like Traxus’ Vulcan is openly honest about the illegal arrangement they’re offering while also saying they’re not liable for anything. Gaius says similar things but is much more polite and subtle.

[austere elk]

they're just lying about 30 other things at any given moment

[keen plank]

I’m still wondering who funds Arachne.

[austere elk]

SuckiGuchi probably

[green plume]

some insane rich runner with nothing better to do

[austere elk]

data's data

[queen kraken]

they're a charity in setting so could very well be running off an insane amount of public donations lmao

[visual lynx]

especially noteworthy after the new lore is that that history terminal says that while the Three may have gone down in infamy for their actions, that war was going to happen sooner or later anyway, but in the same source where we learn that the Three were plants, we see that the UESC think the Martian protestors are boring pacifists who will never give them an excuse to use force. so, maybe not so inevitable after all…

[keen plank]

Arachne is a charity? I thought they were a registered religious group.

[austere elk]

aren't shells illegal to use

[green plume]

no

[visual lynx]

the ancient cabal of immortals

[queen kraken]

ok yeah i misread the entry originally. even so, donations!

[queen kraken]

tbh the immortals being really into a death cult would be a very interesting route

[raven marlin]

I’m really interested in the lore of the 13 that got corrupted during the first transference attempts. We have Azazel so far.

[spring isle]

some are

destoryer is

[zinc moat]

You know something just occurred to me regarding Durandal.

[green plume]

I don't get the point of the obsession with death when we're in a post death place. I'm sure not all humans are but like whats the point of killing what doesn't die?

[keen plank]

We’re still missing out on a couple AI too. No word yet from Arthur, Icarus, Bastion, or Lilith.

[austere elk]

that's exactly the point

death is no longer the end, so the next step is to explore what is beyond it

[green plume]

How do you do that when you can't die

[austere elk]

but you do

[keen plank]

That’s the point. Now that death isn’t necessarily permanent Arachne believes murder can unlock higher or new truths.

[green plume]

No you don't

[austere elk]

your flesh dies, but not the mind

[queen kraken]

it's the closest anyone gets to death. Cryo, and the limbo between runs

[visual lynx]

it seems like they started up due to the cryostasis used on the marathon, where cryonics is already a popular fixation today with people who crave immortality, and are sort of a “dying and coming back later” in Marathon; and then shells allowing for even more explicit death and resurrection, surely seems like it would pique the interests of immortals.

[keen plank]

Notably, unlike the other factions Arachne is interested in Tau Ceti just because there’s runners there. And their representative, Charter, is a former runner.

[green plume]

If all we are is the mind anyways the shell dying doesn't matter besides a monetary loss.

[latent python]

but maybe we aren't only the mind

[sterile seal]

Except for the growing rampancy

[queen kraken]

we also don't actually know what shell death feels like

the only primary sources we have are the CyAc manuals which intentionally downplay a lot of other negatives regarding the process of being a runner and occupying a shell

[visual lynx]

also worth noting that in PiD, there is a crystal that allows you to talk to the dead, who appear to be trapped in their corpses, still perceiving the world after their death

[sterile seal]

Gotta look at the codex entries for better context, like the Recon shell is supposed to do horrific things to you and that's why UESC retired it.

[latent python]

what if our shells still have someone stuck inside them every time we die

[austere elk]

they kinda do?

[latent python]

what, the personality core

er personality matrix

[queen kraken]

imprint?

[keen plank]

It’s a mobile platform for a disconnected consciousness.

It seems that shells have cognitive decline over time however.

Shells kind of remind me of Exos from Destiny. With every reboot there’s a little bit less.

[latent python]

oh wait that's another book to put on my reading list

[queen kraken]

oh yeah absolutely, i was more specifically focussing on what getting ejected forceably out of the shell does to a runner, which is as close to death as we can get. what you're describing for Recon sounds like it's closer to a kind of information overload than anything else

[plucky sierra]

we are trying to figure out how to get the audio files

[green plume]

https://www.youtube.com/@Tasty_DODO/videos

that guy got a bunch

[latent python]

they might be able to get an even more official source

[plucky sierra]

yeah, we definitely could, bungie is ok with datamined stuff as long as it isn't leaks, so I'd like to get the files from the game

Julia noticed us and mentioned somewhere in here she'd be interested in helping or somethin like that, but we haven't been able to reach her

[green plume]

I was just thinking aye that dude did all the work to put it all on youtube already so it'd be a good way to get all done fast and maybe just take a DM to ask to use. He gets the view for it and your site gets the audio without really increasing anything.

[zinc moat]

(Sorry I was in a game) Durandal would have to copy himself in order to move to the Pfhor ship. Which means the one we might be interacting with is the one that got left behind. 🤔

[finite tapir]

tworandal

[visual lynx]

right that sounds like what’s being implied. IDEA noted some remnant activity remaining in D-R-N-D-L core after unauthorized deletion of resident intelligence… and then those remnants seem to take over IDEA like a body snatcher, and have been hiding in their systems for a century.

[sterile seal]

Duorandal

[visual lynx]

>>> speaks to >> as though the former has encountered the latter elsewhere and been allied with them but that that won’t be the case now where the latter is an aberration

[hushed spear]

cryo archive finally gave me my answer to how long the UESC Marathon is

[bold sun]

why cant i post in the any lfg or the cryo archive lfg, clyde keeps stopping me

[digital plaza]

Dire Marsh & Cryo Archive are complete, im missing two audio logs from Perimeters Evidence Folder and one from Severed Twins on Outpost

[timber loom]

My bet is antipode of a recon of sorts. As in somehow their abilities will help to not be ambushed

[placid abyss]

Ive unlocked like half the codex, there's so much lore and I cant wait for people to start compiling it into videos

cause im so confused with the chronological order of everything

[digital plaza]

Whats youre confused on?

[placid abyss]

basically everything, I know the story of how the marathon was created and launched, I know somewhat about the aliens, etc...

so im lost at the point when everything goes wrong on the marathon and tau ceti

[tawny dagger]

Durandal, one of the 3 onboard AI systems of the Marathon went rampant and contacted the Pfhor, an alien race, in an attempt to escape and take control of one of their arriving ships.

Afterwards, im not completely sure if this is confirmed, but it can be implied by the Launch Cinematic, that the Pfhor attacked the colony on Tau Ceti IV with a plague. Additionally, I think they also had the S'pht, another alien race (The Compiler in Cryo Archive) to attack the remaining AI systems in the colonies to further disrupt colony development.

Fast forward a couple decades or whatever and the colonists are all dead. Earth receives the message that Leela, another AI aboard the Marathon, sent at the beginning of the Fhor Assault and now Runners are on Tau Ceti IV doing corporations dirty work to undermine government authority and the UESC's hold over colony assets.

There's a lot of stuff in-between that im missing but I think that's the gist of major events

[craggy finch]

The Pfhor invasion seems unrelated to the plague, the second attack mentioned in Marathon 2 never happened and logs imply the plague is a kind of response to humanity's presence

for example the fauna are mutated; the ticks didn't have the ability to explode at will until after some time

[visual lynx]

there's nothing indicating that the second attack didn't happen, just that the colony wasn't nuked to bedrock as in M2

but yeah the plague is probably unrelated to the Pfhor, more likely (IMO) related to the S'pht, since it seems to have begun one year after their rebellion and the cinematic trailer shows the guy puking and then a compiler back to back in the 2812 segment

[craggy finch]

MIDA's quest line does revolve around the cover up of the entire first invasion and they seemed to have successfully memory holed the event, aside from the S'pht cult

"Colony Era" is a vague time span but the plague and Anomaly stuff is well after the invasion and they never talk about aliens again

[visual lynx]

it's not Leela's message that Earth received, it was a different message sent by Durandal apparently

[visual lynx]

that doesn't indicate anything about the absence of a second invasion, which would have been only three months later

[craggy finch]

Perhaps, logs do note how bad casualties were despite Leela noting how the colony did much better than the Marathon

but those logs refer to events apparently concurrent with Durandal's actions

[tawny dagger]

Maybe intercepted by Durandal in transit? There was definitely a message from Leela that was sent to Earth

[craggy finch]

yeah that seems likely

[visual lynx]

Leela said she was sending a lightspeed message with lots of information that would arrive in 92 years

but Tau Ceti is only 12ly away from Sol

and the message Sol received was 94 years later, and very uninformative, and also in Durandal's voice

most likely, Leela sent her message to the wrong place, somewhere actually 92ly away

[craggy finch]

The Security Officer, being kind of an idiot, did not question this at all

[visual lynx]

Leela confused herself badly

When the Marathon was attacked, Leela began to scramble
and rewrite all of the historical information for mankind.
Of course, she was damaged, and her efforts were cut off
by the compilers and by Durandal. The result is that some
but not all of the Marathon's data was muddled. Leela's
effort at confusion failed to trick the Pfhor, but it has
confused Durandal, and that is funny.

[craggy finch]

"Bungie I noticed your dates are out of whack"

"uhhhhh AI did it here's a fun side story"

@visual lynx Have you read the fan comic retelling of the first Marathon's manual ?
https://marathon.bungie.org/story/mihamarathoncomic01e.html

[visual lynx]

"yeah, so, whenever you notice any kind of inconsistencies like that, the reason is that an AI did it."

"yeah but—"

"an. AI. did it."

[craggy finch]

It gives the Security Officer so many funny dumb meathead lines

"WHATTA SHIT"

"Mess with me, big brother...and you're TOAST"

[tranquil basin]

They do refer to the pfhor invasion as “the event” rather than multiple, even though I assume each would be significant enough to note. However those entries could also be between the two, idk

[digital plaza]

So in 2794 marathon is attacked by Pfhor forces, ship being boarded, Tycho and Leela cores are stolen, colony is being orbitally bombarded all at the same time. While chaos is erupted, Durandal possible stoles Pfhor ship and leaves the system, while part of him is left on the ship hiding. After some time attack is repelled by Security Officer and other battleroids, but aliens still linger in the ship, and it takes some time to hunt them down

In 2797 UESC sends Equanimity to investigate loss of communication, with 97 year expected travel time

After the attack, colonists starting to have nightmares containing deceased people of certain importance to them, even colony command having them

In 2812 the contagion is starts to affect crops & kill colonists

In 2827 the anomaly started to appear and is not making things easier, colony scientists and security is stretched thin, because they need to manage these two events at the same time

In 2888 Earth receives Durandals message "Somewhere in the heavens they are waiting" and race to TCIV begins

In 2893 factions and runners arrive in the system and thats where we are now

Something like that i guess

[digital plaza]

But is there something that indicates that second attack happened?

[tawny dagger]

Are there any colonists records that can be recovered in-game that talk about the attack? Just realized I haven't read or listened to anything like that despite being a 10+year gap between the attack on Marathon and the colonists dying

[digital plaza]

I personally yet to notice anything on that

[craggy finch]

They had contact with the Marathon up until the communication loss around 2794-95, so the Equanimity probably knows about Orion’s force acting as the vanguard

[craggy finch]

Do the MIDA contracts, they’ll unlock heavily redacted files

[tawny dagger]

Baller, will do 🫡

[craggy finch]

The S’pht are really the main focus (they’re for teasing Cryo Archive after all) but an outpost collectible is an autopsy that describes the Pfhor

[digital plaza]

Yeah hold on

[tawny dagger]

Im still early on in most contracts. I keep jumping around between factions if I cant complete one in a few games

[craggy finch]

The grind is the worst part as a mostly solo player

No I don’t want to collect five wires to progress MIDA just GIVE ME THE STORY

[visual lynx]

if we're assuming that the events of M1 are unchanged at least, then the absence of Tycho and Leela's cores would suggest that the Pfhor returned later, because they were still intact at the end of M1.

the absence of the ten cyborgs would also be consistent with Infinity where they were all captured by the Pfhor when they returned after M1.

the absence of bodies in the ruins of the colony would be consistent with many people having been captured by the Pfhor as well.

[digital plaza]

https://youtu.be/majfzvSTO3A , https://youtu.be/XF3z5rjSNQg , https://youtu.be/xQjvQ9p29Xo

[craggy finch]

Pfhor are apparently quite stagnant (as the proto-Covenant copying tech they don’t quite understand) so I can imagine they haven’t changed much by the 2800s

[digital plaza]

Off the top of my head

[craggy finch]

Meanwhile humanity made leaps and bounds

[digital plaza]

Wanted to bring Encrypted Communique 3 and 4 logs, that maybe 3 is happening during the first attack and 4 is during the second one, but then we got 5 log and things become more unclear and messy... If the second attack did happened and they stole Tycho and Leela's cores, then why is any other log dont mention that? Even if log 5 is happening right after 4 one during the second attack, then like... we still dont get any mention of Pfhor doing stuff?

If there is no bodies nor ruins, then we are to assume the second attack happened sometime after the anomaly? Did they just kidnapped people and dibbed and thats why we dont have any info on that? But what about Jasper? He surely would've mention that

We only got OG trilogy to support our theories on that now, so i think we better to wait for some clarification in numarathon, because otherwise its going to be endless debate of "oh i think" and "M1 events are" :p

[vale gust]

zach d films did lore of nucaloric. Did you know its theorized by science that you can actually extract fecal matter's biohazardous quality's with chemical and procedural mechanisms and then you can add vitamins, color and additives to taste good and have nutritional value. For space travel of course.

[craggy finch]

Drinkable cheeseburger

[keen plank]

That's what tick milk is in-setting.

[visual lynx]

any kind of long-term space settlement separate from Earth's biosphere is going to have to replicate the biosphere's ability to recycle nutrients from waste back into food

[craggy finch]

They also froze livestock but evidently couldn’t use them for sustainable agriculture

Jasper is also seemingly a teenager at the time of the colony’s collapse and was probably born on Tau Ceti

He complains about the texture of real meat and mentions his mother and grandmother never had it either

[keen plank]

We see him freshly unfrozen during the Colonial PSA when an older colonist grabs the mic and tries to warn people.

[craggy finch]

Ah ok

So he was Earth/Mars child

Where the food situation is always bleak

[ruby elm]

Hey everyone does anyone know why we can't open the vault in pump station cryo archive we got the key, batteries and cryo but it ain't working

[digital plaza]

You need warden's credentials

[coral sleet]

is it just me or is the Sekiguchi AI actually attempting to be friendly to the runners?

I get that the missions for the faction are in fact named "parasitism"... yet... maybe they aren't evil? lol

[terse steppe]

Is it true the Sph't are the weakest of the enemies that the Pfhor race use?

[keen plank]

Don't trust any of them.

[coral sleet]

Good point. lol

[keen plank]

"Nonna" is Italian for "grandmother". Nona "nurtured" the WEAVEworms that are responsible for 3D-printing the Runners, therefore making her the "grandmother" of the Runners, who she calls her "dear ones". She's a manipulative, caring grandmother worm. Who tells you want she thinks you want to hear while viewing you as an extension of herself.

Grandma knows best. Whether you like it or not...

[coral sleet]

jeez...

Yeah, that's kinda case-in-point on why she's also evil

[drifting mulch]

thanks for sharing. all this time i thought it was meant to reference noona, which in korean culture is big sister. your interpretation makes much more sense haha

[visual lynx]

no, individual Pfhor fighters are weaker, and there's also wasps that are just annoying bugs to be swatted… Compilers are a moderate-level unit in the Pfhor troops.

drones are weaker too

troopers, hunters, enforcers are stronger

[terse steppe]

ah interesting, thanks

[craggy finch]

That’s why I’m leaning towards thinking this particular S’pht in Cryo has been upgraded; being cyborgs leaves them open to that kind of thing

I think canonically the original slaves could still be downed with .44 rounds

It’s not like a Pfhor fighter was speeding around with his staff as a dungeon boss

Although if they could take several .75 high velocity rounds to the face and keep going then Pfhor are still extremely tough

IIRC BoBs can die from one or two assault rifle shots in the original games

[terse steppe]

I imagine the next season will still include cryo archive but maybe with updated contracts and agent cutscenes talking about the Sph't aliens.

[craggy finch]

Perhaps some downscaled compiler enemies to add PvE variety?

Logs imply they’re on the surface

One is implied to have killed Orion once

[fair steppe]

A friend of mine just asked me to explain Marathon Infinity and I’m trying to figure out how to do that in a way that doesn’t make me sound crazy

[terse steppe]

Maybe an investigation chain of contracts trying to find out more information on the new alien threat

[craggy finch]

Not Master Chief goes through timelines that are destroyed by a Lovecraft monster until he traps it in the final timeline

[lime ocean]

Just say it's about how to keep a monster in the sun, and you go across 7 timelines until you do so

[fair steppe]

I’m gonna tell her the players name is John Marathon and see if she believes me

[craggy finch]

Mess with John Marathon, big brother…and youre toast

[fair steppe]

John Marathon is the best because he beats the monsters and doesn’t afraid of anything

[violet fog]

is it possible that different timelines are occuring everytime we load into tau ceti? perhaps thats why the corpos keep sending runners is its an infinite loot pool of profit opportunity being able to reset every visit

[craggy finch]

Also why the windows are mysteriously fixed

MIDA is on to something

[drifting mulch]

could explain why loot is always in different spots. kind of like Dota, every match is a different universe.....which is why the Dota 2 anime is still canon. the groundwork for sensical lore is there

[craggy finch]

The Anomaly caused some time distortion that the colonists attempted to exploit

[fair steppe]

So corporations are pillaging alternate timelines for loot?

[lime ocean]

Think of it like duplicating resources that you know are there, times infinity

[coral vale]

Actually now I wonder: do shells need to breathe for their organics components? Cuz I wanna fight in a vaccum eventually

[drifting mulch]

the moral dilemma is those "other" universes have as much a right to exist as you do. but fuck em!!!

[craggy finch]

An opening line from ONI I’ve heard a couple times is “purging memories of pain” so the Runners’ memory is also constantly altered it seems

And not just missing as a side effect

[lime ocean]

Imagine two traixs AI realized that they are doing this and make an alliance with themselves

[fair steppe]

Also are Shells expensive? I had the theory that the ones we use aren’t because we aren’t charged for them but we are for guns and equipment.

[craggy finch]

Tau Ceti’s atmosphere seems highly toxic, since ONI can mention readings of 14 pH, but I’m more sure if that’s describing the air itself or just a close environment

[craggy finch]

We are in uncountable debt

[fair steppe]

Ah

Just like real life

[drifting mulch]

i can imagine both AIs plotting the demise of the other lmao

[lime ocean]

Sometimes they have memories of dying, which have trauma, so they erase those and load up to a time they didn't die,

[craggy finch]

But any sort of memory tampering makes the implication sinister

Plus we’re supposed to learn from what killed us right?

[lime ocean]

Yes, but no, ONI knows that

But chooses to have the shell not know that

[craggy finch]

In one of the MIDA logs, Orion’s subordinate points out that the Runners she has to deal with dont care about dying so they act extremely reckless

So they’re canonically very cavalier about their own deaths

[fair steppe]

Uncountable debt but the shells they give us can’t last longer than 30 minutes Smh

[drifting mulch]

our lovely ONI AI knows best. btw the voice actor Donnla Hughes is a pleasant singer on YouTube

[craggy finch]

They’re allergic to bullets

[lime ocean]

Isn't it like a millionish per shell

[craggy finch]

I’m never getting out of debt dawg

The day they provide a death stat I’m cooked

[drifting mulch]

"like a trillion bucks" is what Vandal said in the cinematic

[lime ocean]

I guess,

[craggy finch]

Could be the tally of her current debt

[fair steppe]

What if they eventually add an endgame and it’s just to pay off all your debt

[drifting mulch]

good point. i wonder how shell debt will play into lore/wipes. since we all die...a lot

[lime ocean]

Imagine, saying that's how the wipe mechanic works

[craggy finch]

That’s the rub, we’re immortal slaves with the impossible goal of clearing our debts hanging over our head

Plus we don’t even know our past lives

[lime ocean]

New timeline would act as a wipe mechanic,

[craggy finch]

Vandal can’t even recognise if a picture is of her or not

[drifting mulch]

okay lit

[craggy finch]

I can’t believe we needed a different timeline to go to Dire Marsh at night

[lime ocean]

Eh, 😂

[drifting mulch]

idk bungie just knows how to make timeline funk work so well

you "eh" but bungo man

haha

[craggy finch]

I think they won’t go too wild with the alt timelines since they invested so much detail and storytelling on the current events of Tau Ceti

Unless 2893 is on a loop

The prominence of that year makes me think they’ll have a running timeline

Next part being 2894 and the possible arrival of the Equanimity

[lime ocean]

Well, now that I think about it, if it is a loop then how much is going into the loop and being lost? It's like saying a shell is there then the loop restarts, now it isn't and that shell is wiped

[drifting mulch]

ONI, Durandal, terminals all speak of "why bother do what you're doing"

[craggy finch]

Could just be a question of what the fuck is our motivation

[drifting mulch]

in the terms of fear of dying, motivation...

[craggy finch]

As the players we’re doing an extraction thing for gameplay loop but Runners dont have a clear stake

They’re realistically not going to pay off their debt

[peak halo]

It's the debt

[lime ocean]

The stake wasn't given to us

[drifting mulch]

they say it's the debt but i believe that's unreliable narrator

[peak halo]

I mean the runner chose to be an immortal disembodied consciousness living in expendable robots

I assume they had a reason lol

[craggy finch]

That they have forgotten by now

[peak halo]

In D2 they basically didn't touch on The Young Wolf's inner life at all and it was a good choice

[lime ocean]

The debt is just what piles up since your 1st shell, so perhaps there mind or past self has a reason to be there, crime, escape, anything at that point

[craggy finch]

They’re pushing an angle of being truth seekers

Durandal questions why they want to access the Marathon

[peak halo]

A runner trying to figure out their past life is single player movie game shit

Couldn't care less

[peak halo]

Twitch subs

[drifting mulch]

is it debt or is it no other choice?

[lime ocean]

To speed run it

No other choice? I could have sworn it said "volunteers"

[craggy finch]

The process of being a biomata drives them to debt, the exact reasons for becoming one is ambiguous

Orion is a debt free biomata because he was turned into one in service of the UESC

You could say he’s just in debt to the government

[peak halo]

The runners are the least interesting and least important part of the overall story

[drifting mulch]

volunteer to starve on Mars or be digitized and enslaved to collect hamburgers for your overlord

[lime ocean]

Ah yes, just say to have a better life off of mars, that makes it sound better

[craggy finch]

Sekiguchi and Arachne revolving around the nature of biomata suggests it will be an important thread

[peak halo]

The lore bits on some skins and such allude to different clans of runners and runner subcultures and such. Yawn.

[craggy finch]

Arachne doesnt have lore contracts yet

[drifting mulch]

i find runners to be the most interesting and yet explained part of lore

[craggy finch]

They may never do, but the cycle of life and death is a theme

[lime ocean]

[craggy finch]

All the promotional material kind of emphasises how fucked up constantly dying and coming back is

[lime ocean]

And arachne is there,

[craggy finch]

Sekiguchi is outright transhumanist

[drifting mulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA-mkpkWr90 ONI singing David Bowie for anyone's pleasure

[lime ocean]

So, wonder how they fit in lore wise

[peak halo]

In D2 there's a group called the thanatonauts that die on purpose a bunch of times to try to explore death and see if they can learn anything

I assume runners do something similar

[craggy finch]

Apparently they were a cult who became really invested in cryo tech as part of their belief system regarding death and rebirth

Then the biomata thing made it turbocharged

And they’re oddly well funded

[lime ocean]

Cool,

They just couldn't be least edgy about it?

[craggy finch]

When you’re a literal death cult it’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows

It’s not even an afterlife thing

The whole belief system is about the process of dying

Reverse Buddhism Nirvana

[drifting mulch]

the ascendance that death brings yes

[peak halo]

The existence of biomata and runners means that humanity has practically defeated death.

[craggy finch]

Orion gets killed horrifically and gantry just comments that he’ll be back pissed off

[lime ocean]

In a sense, yes, but they didn't defeat debt, that is a whole other problem

[peak halo]

It's not like the entire human race will be immortal forever. But so long as the physical infrastructure hosting our minds exists death is no longer the end.

[drifting mulch]

if dying doesn't matter, why live? is it only to experience externally, or because of a fear of nothing to experience?

[peak halo]

What else is there to do

[lime ocean]

Back ups of who are In the shell exist, so where exactly are those stored?

[craggy finch]

“Do a sick finisher bruh” - Arachne space priest

[peak halo]

What quest is this lol

[craggy finch]

The final set of MIDA contracts

[lime ocean]

Who's Orion again?

[craggy finch]

UESC commander

[lime ocean]

Oh, shit

[craggy finch]

The guy hijacking your feed to talk shit

[drifting mulch]

silly fella

[lime ocean]

Well, who's the villain now?

[coral vale]

I remember orion as the guy with the pulsating pauldrons

[lime ocean]

CAPITALISM

[peak halo]

The shell detects when you're about to be finished and ejects your mind back into the system before you die. The codex implies it's fool proof and can't fail. Not sure how much I trust that.

If that ejection system malfunctions you're cooked.

[craggy finch]

I thought that was a projection but he’s actually a dude who goes planetside with a gun and everything

An in game boss version of Orion would be sick

And he could canonically come back every time

[lime ocean]

That sounds, worse that just not knowing you died

[craggy finch]

Orion sends a personal message saying even the UESC doesnt know how to sever the link so he settles on killing you over and over again until you give up

[lime ocean]

It implies that you died but can't prove it,

[coral vale]

Orion getting blasted to smithereen thrice per days would make him way harder to take seriously

[peak halo]

Or I could just trust that they made it impossible to sever

[lime ocean]

It implies that they themselves use it, and if they break it they are fucked as well, since there is less of them

[craggy finch]

He’s a starter threat honestly, very ominous at first but then being berated by his superior officer and that log of him getting killed by a compiler indicates he’s small fry on a bigger scale

[lime ocean]

The compilar is that floating red thing with the cape? Right? Could have swore that was spht

[craggy finch]

Same thing essentially

S’pht are the species

Compiler is the enemy type

S’pht’Kr are turbo charged compilers

[drifting mulch]

they really hammer in the "fact" that runner consciousness exfil is guaranteed. it's just like today's corps telling us our data is safe. then every once in a while you'll get a letter from your insurance telling you that they've been hacked years ago and all your personal info has been violated for a year now but they're telling you very late because we're legally supposed to

imo codex has unreliable narrator in places that may be unexpected is what i was getting at lol

[craggy finch]

It’s funny to me how only the UESC codex log includes personal opinions

ONI has very strong thoughts about them and them only apparently

[peak halo]

Who do you mean? Cyberacme employees?

[sage lark]

Let me tell you

Its been only once so far afaik

Need to reread the uesc data

But maybe he died in the Spht encounter too

[digital plaza]

Oiron died twice, one time from Compiler and the other time from that thing that he was trying to get (compilers brain or something?)

[sage lark]

Yeah ok so he did die twice

The compiler wiped his team too

I assume it was a compiler brain

[craggy finch]

I thought that was the same instance

[digital plaza]

Nope

[craggy finch]

Is there a separate death log?

[digital plaza]

One death from https://youtu.be/xxvbI7ugKeo and the other from https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-tactical-record?directory=World,Cryo+Archive

[craggy finch]

the first time might be a compiler as well

they've been present on the colony itself in other logs

and the second log also has him talking about it being inside his head

compilers may just have it out for him specifically

Remnant of "contact event."
This leans towards it being a S'pht from the same ship that became Boomer

[digital plaza]

Yeah probably its brain, we did see that colonists had managed to get some of them

[craggy finch]

or a physical cyborg?

his death sounds physically violent

not the energy beam stuff but the compiler bodies probably have the means of ripping his head off or whatever it did to him

[digital plaza]

I think his head just blown up from sheer presence of compilers brain

He is in a shell after all

[craggy finch]

when we get it the effects are a little less severe

he could also be trying to shoot the container but it sounds as if he was attacked on top of the psychic effects

[digital plaza]

I think he just started to rapid fire in every direction because his head was blowing up in real time :D

We dont know if compilers were present on the colony tho

Jasper logs do seem to imply that

[craggy finch]

The colonists also know enough about them to create those idols

[digital plaza]

But aah i think its just nightmares and the insanity coming to him

[digital plaza]

Yea, i think they know because some survivors from marathon came back to the colony and started to spread rumors

In cryo archive we do see that they integrated compilers brain into their systems or something

And alien gun too, they were experimenting a lot

[craggy finch]

"Remnants of the 'contact event'" could then mean the captured S'pht specimen that they experimented on

in that case maybe Durandal escaping with most of the S'pht did happen

a few S'pht that the UESC recovered were intact while others self destructed

[sage lark]

I believe the Rebellion did happen, its sort of mentioned in the compiler trace codex

[visual lynx]

but sounding crazy is the correct way to explain it

[fair steppe]

I don’t want her to be scared off. We need more people in the madness hole

[sage lark]

But the last log from the compiler trace makes it seem like they turned crazy

[craggy finch]

in-game it's nuts, Durandal dooms for a bit in the first level, you jump to Tycho being in charge and going through an alternate Marathon 2, then you go to the lava world with vague mumblings then jump to another Marathon 2 but back with Durandal

[visual lynx]

and because the colony was attacked too at the same time as the Marathon was

[sage lark]

Consume consume consume

[visual lynx]

remember:

Even S'bhuth is no more. He saved his entire race, but in the end, frozen by despair, he joined the chaos he sought to evade.

[sage lark]

Im not familiar with Sbhuth too much