📚marathon-lore-discussion

[sage lark]

The Flood on the fungal virus from M2 concept

[median hemlock]

I'm not a destiny player but from what I understand about the traveller and the darkness: no lol

[simple garden]

Spartans and Battleroids both wear Mjolnr armor

[robust nebula]

like im sure some creative dev in bungie is going partially on head canon XD like oh imagine the marathon guys but like years in the future. boom halo

[dreamy hawk]

I can't prove a negative, but we don't have much in the way of proving the postive, either.

[sage lark]

Halo CE was supposed to be a Marathon sequel but it changed to Halo

[median hemlock]

broke: the bungieverse
woke: halo and destiny are w'rk dreams

[dreamy hawk]

Halo CE did also start out more of a Marathon game, so that explains a lot of that, too.

[robust nebula]

yea thats kinda what i mean

[dreamy hawk]

This is the furthest I'm willing to go with the Bungieverse.

[robust nebula]

like not formally acknowledged surem but it shows

[sage lark]

It shows inspiration

[zealous laurel]

Bespoke: Bungie properties are just Durandal Fanfiction

[sage lark]

But they are different enough

[dreamy hawk]

The logo for the Pillar of Autumn is the same as the Marathon. They're both space ships. They're don't serve the same purpose at all.

[simple garden]

Theory: All the games are the dying dream of Muller in the pyramid

[robust nebula]

of course. but they would be different even in a direct sequel after that much time. just look at the runners in this marathon compared to the player in the old one

[raven marlin]

The Fallen always reminded me of an updated Pfhor. The ones with spears at least.

[sage lark]

Yes

They just borrow ideas and designs from their old IPs

[robust nebula]

so then let me rephrase my original question as clearly my preface was bunk

[zealous laurel]

Galaxy brain: all of this is taking place in B-ll Cl-nton's imagination after he hallucinates talking to an alien

[floral slate]

reiterating your own works is key

[robust nebula]

is it possibly that they 'borrowed' the idea of marathon in the distant future for destiny

[sage lark]

Borrowed how

[robust nebula]

you dont see the similarities?

[sage lark]

No one is space wizards

[simple garden]

ine could mKe a case that there’s somethingnlike Moorcock’s Eternal Champion going on across the universes and timelines

[sage lark]

With a big planet

[median hemlock]

Every bungie game has recycled and recontextualized ideas established by marathon, it isn't a 1:1 "destiny is marathon" deal

[dreamy hawk]

I think the visual simularities between Deimos and the Traveler are as simple as them both being spheres. There are other things I think that you can point to in Destiny that are much clearer Marathon references/influences, like the MIDA multitool.

[silver nymph]

All of Bungies stories are very similar. Its very clear

[robust nebula]

no ones a space wizard in destiny. thats an us thing XD

[sage lark]

Huh

[floral slate]

destiny's only connection i can see with marathon is being an actual game in universe like it is to us

[median hemlock]

and as established by infinity, we already know there's a lot of variant timelines and fuckery on that front

[floral slate]

or a wrkcanter dream

[dreamy hawk]

Yrro and Pthia and the W'rk are very Gardener/Winnower coded.

[median hemlock]

So at most you could say that the other games are in very different distant timelines

[robust nebula]

ok i give up, im not saying they are one to one you know. i just wanted to explore the similarities between things like runners and guardians, traveller and deimos etc

[raven marlin]

Agreed. Like a subtle big picture meta narrative.

[robust nebula]

was just a thing to think about

[sage lark]

Yrro is very likely just the Jjaro

[floral slate]

i literally thought it is heavily implied to be them

[median hemlock]

I'm not trying to shut you down, there just aren't many direct links

[silver nymph]

The darkness is called a tide. The flood from Halo. The waves of the wrkcanter. Masterchief, dude in armor, Guardians, dudes in Armor, Marathon OG protag, dude in Armor, its pretty obvious

[zealous laurel]

It's sorta like Cid popping up in all the mainline Final Fantasy games

[median hemlock]

its mostly Easter eggs and references

[dreamy hawk]

Possibly, but possibly not, we still don't technically know.

[zealous laurel]

It's mostly ~vibes~

[floral slate]

security officer for marathon dude

[dreamy hawk]

And that leaves open the question who/what is Pthia? Maybe they're not quite as cosmic/eldritch as the Gardener/Winnower, but so far they've at least been mythologized as such.

[lapis minnow]

hey my cutie book nerds

[latent python]

The runners and guardians are both people freed from death but in very different ways

[dreamy hawk]

Just like we don't know what the W'rk is. An individual? A force? A God? A god? A race of sun-swimming snakes?

[silver nymph]

Yea Bungie tells the same story but in different ways

[floral slate]

Guardians are free of death, i feel runners are more shackled by death than free of it

[dreamy hawk]

Bungie likes their Heroic Epics.

[raven marlin]

I think it is interesting tracing the ideas across franchises. Like the scrapped fungal zombies in OG Marathon developed as the Flood in Halo, then on through to nuMarathon.

[latent python]

There's a pretty big difference between wanting to talk about the threads of inspiration through Bungie games and wanting to appeal to the Bungieverse, IMO

[median hemlock]

yeah I would be very disappointed if a destiny character suddenly showed up

[latent python]

The threads of inspiration are, on one level, obvious but also run deep and can be interesting to delve into, to me the Bungieverse isn't very interesting at all

[dreamy hawk]

I'd be OK with Han, though.

/s if anyone is wondering

[timber loom]

We will get our fungal zombies in marathon either in 2 hours, or in 2nd season, mark my words

[floral slate]

would be crazy of we entered a match and suddenly we heard the clink of a coin and "Aiiight runners, today you are fighting... THE CABAL! good luck"

[dreamy hawk]

I think there's enough of a difference between "it's all literally the same idea, just reskinned and in a different universe" and "these are the themes we really like, see how we incorporated them into this new, distinct universe to provide you with some intellectual/concept ties to our other universes."

[dreamy hawk]

Devestating.

[latent python]

The Traveller and Deimos are not a very interesting connection to me, as the only connection they really have is being space rocks. But one is a character and the other is a location, they serve totally different roles in their stories

[floral slate]

Id cry

[timber loom]

Deimos + Marathon is literally Drifter's Haul

[civic valve]

The traveller -> “You are destiny”

I think we’re onto something here

[median hemlock]

not that I want to drag halo/destiny, but yeah, it's the HR meme lmao

[dreamy hawk]

I don't know. I feel like Halo and Destiny are pretty distinct in plot beats but I haven't been paying attention to either much anymore.

[warm thicket]

Whats the rundown on cryo archive

[dreamy hawk]

It's cold.

What info are you looking for?

[warm thicket]

tellmetellmetellme

What's the big discoveries

[lunar cove]

Marathon vs Halo vs Destiny is like uh

[latent python]

Well, Cryo Archives...hasn't opened yet

[dreamy hawk]

I don't think we know that yet. It doesn't go live for another 1.5 hours.

[warm thicket]

Carp

[dreamy hawk]

And then I have to work so. 🤷

[lunar cove]

when Kurosawa wrote a letter to Sergio Leone praising A Fistful of Dollars (which had borrowed the story of Kurosawa's movie 'Yojimbo')

Signor Leone—I have just had the chance to see your film. It is a very fine film, but it is my film.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I need to know more about this tea. Hillarious.

[lunar cove]

a lot of cowboy movies are just taking a samurai movie and replacing the setting with the american west, and the swords with revolvers

[dreamy hawk]

Oh. Yes. Ok I did get the joke without realzing it.

[lunar cove]

since the wandering ronin and the wandering cowboy are pretty similar archetypes

Fistful is like a shot for shot remake of Yojimbo

basically a remaster with a texture pack

[dreamy hawk]

Well and what, every other story is just a take on Journey to the West?

[lunar cove]

no like they stole individual lines

every line tbh

[latent python]

Fortunately Leone went on to make some other movies that were less stolen

[dreamy hawk]

Yikes.

[lunar cove]

the movie owns tbh but it's literally the same movie

[dreamy hawk]

I'm going to see if I can get them on the Plex server. I wanna see this firsthand now. 👀

[lunar cove]

they settled out of court for 15% of revenue

[latent python]

Side by side

[dreamy hawk]

I'm laughing but plagrism is actually incredibly uncool.

[dreamy hawk]

So I can do that with YouTube TV. I wonder if I can find both on there...

[floral slate]

be sure to document everything about cryo archive

[lunar cove]

Cryo archive is named that because it makes you cry

[floral slate]

especially having good screenshots of the copiler

i want a new avatar

[raven marlin]

I take screens of everything. I’m basically playing Pokemon Snap.

[floral slate]

god i hope they are creepy af to fight

mind games or something, ive already heard playtesters of the map say its quite unique

[lunar cove]

I know for a fact they won't do it, but it'd be really funny if the compilers are just regular enemies and there's something even scarier

[raven marlin]

They look really creepy in the latest trailer. Kinda gross, too.

[floral slate]

thats likely the former that it is, i remember destiny 2...

[latent python]

How great would it be if eventually we also free the s'pht and they become questgivers

[lunar cove]

wrk tuah, spht on that thang

type shit

[floral slate]

you know thats also something ive thought

[dreamy hawk]

It’d be pretty funny. Hype the Compiler and the final boss is a Hunter. 😂😂😂

[floral slate]

are they controlled by durandal or are they freed?

[lunar cove]

in the original games I believe Durandal's "allies" weren't controlled so much as coerced/cajoled

[floral slate]

i imagine they are free and are justified to want us death on sight

[lunar cove]

but they weren't free

they were trading management

[latent python]

What if we free them from Durandal

[lunar cove]

durandal was a better boss than the pfhor tbh

he was an avenue for them to get revenge

[floral slate]

true tbh

[lunar cove]

they signed on knowing it gave them a chance to punish the pfhor

[latent python]

"Please...help us... he's been making us open doors for a century"

[lunar cove]

his human soldiers are very explicitly coerced

[floral slate]

remembering durandal is the actual protagonist of marathon

[raven marlin]

Do you think this is a normal Compiler or something more?

[lunar cove]

he talks about how he rescued a group of colonists from a pfhor slave transport and told them, "you can join me and fight the pfhor, or I can put you back safely in your cryo cells to stay with them"

most of them chose durandal

[floral slate]

either is supposed to be the actual normal compilers from the og (battledroid op af) or they are further enchanced in someway

enlighten by durandal?

[raven marlin]

I’m leaning towards the latter. I get a lot of it is probably just an updated style, but it just seems off.

[floral slate]

this is thinking also that its been several years since the og marathon and nu marathon ingame storywise

[scenic iron]

Durandal did help Earth tho

[floral slate]

they had to upgrade themselves

new drip

[willow vessel]

Battleroids were like Halo Spartans. Runners are more like ODSTs or hell even Spartan IVs

[scenic iron]

Btw why did they make a new timeline for the new game? So they have more freedom with the storyline itself?

[floral slate]

either a retcon or a whole new timeline

[scenic iron]

I never like the whole timelines being remade or changed. Because the OG stories mean nothing now

[latent python]

Oooh you aren't aware

[lunar cove]

tbh marathon already was doing that

[floral slate]

fucked up to have time travel as a plot device

[scenic iron]

Oh really 😮

[lunar cove]

the series involves a bunch of dimension and timeline hopping

[scenic iron]

I didn't know that thanks 👍

[latent python]

Yeah really a bummer that a marathon game has multiple timelines

[lunar cove]

the third game has you jumping between universes searching for one where you win, basically

[willow vessel]

Avengers Endgame

[floral slate]

every game can be viewed as its own ending to the story

after infinity i mean

2 was the "end" then well yeah

oh fuck and also pathways to darkness is the prequel

[latent python]

And also the ending

[lunar cove]

well not prequel per se

a prequel is something that comes after the original but set before it

[willow vessel]

Yeah

[floral slate]

pathways is the original bungo title

[lunar cove]

okay well tbh the original bungie title is Gnop

their clone of Pong, but backwards

[latent python]

Is it really an original title if it's just pong backwards

[simple garden]

They made infinite timelines in 1998

[lunar cove]

and then after that was Operation Desert Storm

and Minotaur Labyrinths of Crete

and then Pathways, Marathons, Myths, Oni, Halos, Destinies and back to Marathon

[raven marlin]

Was Saddam Durandal

[lunar cove]

oh and Crimson Steam Pirates

can't forget Crimson Steam Pirates

[simple garden]

Bill Clinton is canon to Pathways into Darkness

[latent python]

Crimson Steam Pirates is how I'm going to get Battletech into the Bungieverse

[floral slate]

crazy portfolio

[lunar cove]

not to be that guy tbh, but technically they don't name who won in 1992

[austere elk]

what's the lore reason I lag when opening the Traxus armory page

[lunar cove]

the Jjaro could have appeared to Ross Perot

[floral slate]

for some reason i pictured john kennedy talking to the aliens, not too familiar with american history

[zealous laurel]

I dunno take it up with your higher ups I'm just trying to drink cheeseburgers here

[lunar cove]

jfk survived in the Marathon timeline you heard it here first

he brought a blue shield instead of the sponsored kit to the Texas Schoolbook Depository

[floral slate]

insaneeee

[simple garden]

By that measure it's even possible Dukakis could have won instead of Bush in the 80s and that's the point of divergence.

Just like my belief that Nemesis in Resident Evil is 1950's Democratic presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson.

[latent python]

JFK survived and became God emperor of America

[raven marlin]

He also really was a jelly donut all along.

[floral slate]

the UESC

[lunar cove]

I know pfhorrest got timed out by automod for saying B--- Clin--- a few days ago so personally I'm gonna keep pretending it was perot

[simple garden]

JFK surviving is more likely to be canon to Halo.

JFK was a Navy man. JFK was part of founding the Navy's special warfare office. Hero of Halo is a Navy Petty Officer.

[floral slate]

THEY SILENCED PFHORREST???

💔

[lunar cove]

briefly

for like an hour

[austere elk]

1984

[floral slate]

oh

[latent python]

It's my first amendment right to say presidents' names

[floral slate]

wasnt it to pew pew?

[simple garden]

https://tenor.com/view/jfk-lock-and-load-gentlemen-harvelein-zombies-gif-12821123758724172992

[latent python]

And also pfhorrest's first amendment right, but especially me

[simple garden]

Okay, well serial numbers filed off, President Phil Clanton...

[willow vessel]

1st amendment is freedom of speech

[raven marlin]

🎷

[floral slate]

which one is it to shoot guns

[willow vessel]

2nd

[floral slate]

incredible

[scenic iron]

Oh ok good to know because this new game would not be happening because the Marathon and colony were destroyed

[latent python]

Mostly just the colony but yeah

[simple garden]

I'm gonna come up with alternate, legally safe names for all the US Presidents, from Greg Worthington to Ronald Kemp.

[lunar cove]

Marcus Tiberius Buendia type shit

[floral slate]

jaysus Tennessee

[latent python]

I suppose the colony was still destroyed, just different

There's more than one way to skin a colony

[simple garden]

That's part of what intrigues me, I want to see where the timeline is fractured.

I am still a little disappointed it isn't a post-human setting. I think NieR: Automata really got me interested in that idea.

[lunar cove]

Tau Ceti is largely post-human

on account that they all got turned into fungus

[latent python]

The humans are on the moon, we swear

[lunar cove]

and decomposed into the ground and such

[simple garden]

I mean "humanity is just gone" post-human.

[lunar cove]

nah I don't think it's that kind of setting

[zealous laurel]

Not yet, anyhow

[latent python]

My definitely real girlfriend is on the moon

[median hemlock]

ik what you mean, part of what caught my eye at first about this game was how you don't actually interact with anyone you could cleanly call "human"

[simple garden]

I don't think it is either, but I find the concept in science fiction to be really compelling. Like imagining what alien archaeologists would make of human ruins.

[latent python]

I've always liked cyberpunk and transhuman scifi concepts about identity and consciousness

nuMarathon is dead center of all that

[simple garden]

I tend to like William Gibson type cyberpunk, I don't care for neon 80s nostalgia fashion cyberpunk.

[latent python]

Gibson is very much about identity and consciousness!

And doing drugs, I guess

[lunar cove]

William Gibson when William Les Paul walks in

[digital plaza]

50 minutes until Cryo archive

[simple garden]

I'm just saying I feel a big disconnect between my imagined aesthetics of the world of Burning Chrome, Mona Lisa Overdrive etc and the way cyberpunk is often commercially visualized

[rapid salmon]

is there an actually good arg documentation? i cant seem to find one

[digital plaza]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mtUtDPvbh6ahiynYFVS7Z4O79Nw6y5PEOjweCpzWV_A/mobilebasic?pli=1

[rapid salmon]

thx

[latent python]

Do you feel like Blade Runner got it "right" and it's diverged since there or has it always been a bit wrong

[simple garden]

I think of Blade Runner as kind of its own thing; I would compare it like; a lot of commercial Cyberpunk is a mildly futurized modernized East Asian city like Tokyo, Seoul, or Taipei, while I always imagined the nastier parts of the Sprawl as a grungier Kowloon Walled City or Boston's Combat Zone with higher tech.

[floral slate]

Random but the other day i mentiomed something about if there were runner shells for non runners and such

now i was thinking about if there are non humanoid shaped shells

like straight up robots

[latent python]

See now we're getting into the Altered Carbon of it all

[austere elk]

'so how do we stop AI from going insane?'
'well we use other AIs'
thank you Strauss very cool.

[latent python]

Or Eclipse Phase even

[desert terrace]

if Bungie applied a similar logic as with Exo shells then I think non-human shells are not possible, since your concioussness needs to be familiar with the body

[floral slate]

Ive heard eclipse phase being mentioned

[desert terrace]

that's only my speculation tho

[floral slate]

i think someone would love to be a drone of somekind

we kind of have irl have soldiers being one 24/7

[latent python]

Eclipse Phase is a ttrpg whose inspirations are Altered Carbon, the Uplift books, a bunch of other stuff

Very transhuman

[simple garden]

Uplift sounds like it has neat ideas but I could never stomach Brin's writing style.

[desert terrace]

but it would be cooler if you could literally become say a lion shell or tank shell

[latent python]

Welcome to Eclipse Phase

[simple garden]

tank shells are single use

[gritty burrow]

The lore reason of why the shells speak the way they do is that runners suffer from memory loss and other nasty side effects without the human bits. I imagine putting them in a non humanoid body makes this ten times worse

[latent python]

There are people who sleeve into space whales to swim in the sun's corona

[simple garden]

but tank shell...Bungie's Operaton Desert Storm is canon now

[gritty burrow]

Also, DER from destiny

[desert terrace]

so something similar to early Exos in Destiny

[simple garden]

there's something like that in one of David Niven's early stories, and Niven's Ringworld most probably influenced Halo

[desert terrace]

saw your pfp and thought what if Evangelion but instead of getting into the mech you literally become the mech

[simple garden]

I mean Yui and Kyoko kinda sorta did...

[lunar cove]

this happened to my buddy Ben 10

[floral slate]

right but my only issue is that even then, arent their brains put inside a computer? do they get a simulated digital humanoid body too when their shells die?

id imagine being a runner is uncomfortable either way

wait they also each shell has like uhj

personality control?

[latent python]

Personality matrix

[floral slate]

what does that mean?

[austere elk]

it means you're wearing part of who they were to better use the shell

[simple garden]

is Stephane Picq's Dune: Spice Opera part of the Marathon canon? It's just really cool to listen to.

[austere elk]

the line between where a runner end and a shell begins seems rather purposefully muddied.

[floral slate]

if thats the case then, what could stop them from making a non humanoid shell that instantly tesches you to inhabit it?

[latent python]

I think it's to help explain why the different shells have quips that suggest a coherent personality even though you, the runner that you're playing, are swapping between them

[austere elk]

we understand human instinctual cues, I have no idea what those tendencies would be for a panther

[floral slate]

didnt say animals

[simple garden]

All my shells have a coherent personality of running toward the objective and getting shot by other runners.

[austere elk]

then something completely artificial?

who fucking knows

[floral slate]

felini shell sounds hilsrious tho

i was mainly thinking of it of a non official phfor tech shell or something

alien shit

Compiler shell

[gritty burrow]

Human mind imprinting on a human mind seems it would work better than say a panther mind imprinting on a human mind

[austere elk]

I mean prolonged human contact to the s'phit doesn't seem particularly good for your health

can't imagine plugging your brain into one

[floral slate]

human rampancy

[pseudo mica]

Sekiguchi Genetics are scary

[median hemlock]

dune references are actually already canon thankfully

i forget where but there's a line quoted from the book in one of the old games

[simple garden]

"Panther Mind" sounds like some kind of dumb 'alpha male' course insecure dudes would pay thousands for

[pseudo mica]

Lol

[simple garden]

The books yes, Cryo's 1992 game, I'm not sure

[scenic iron]

Are the s'phit all machines and AI, or they are biological like humans etc

[austere elk]

'are you panther pilled, and is it better than alpha male?(SUPER RARE)'

sphit are flesh given sentience by computahs

[simple garden]

Sph't are originally organic, but were uplifted and cyberneticized by the Jjaro IIRC

[floral slate]

well i think i will habe to check out eclipse phase and altered carbon that were mentioned

[median hemlock]

they have a biological aspect but it is very small

[floral slate]

Panther chud vs Felini gigachad

[simple garden]

My biggest question is what the hell is this thing in Pathways https://pid.bungie.org/images/bluemeaniestomp.gif

and when will we see it again

[gritty burrow]

Why do you think they’re so secretive about cryo archive

[ivory token]

hey lore people the wiki says marathon is 15km long but its clearly longer than the diameter of deimos which is 12.4km at its SHORTEST point so marathon should be at least ~25km long if not longer. whats going on

[austere elk]

it fell off in transit

[ivory token]

did marathon length get retconned? is deimos smaller in the marathon universe? am i stupid?

[austere elk]

didn't have any moon-bondo to make the repairs post-trip

[ivory token]

💔

[lunar cove]

I don't think we know the exact length of the marathon, or how much of deimos is left

cause deimos irl isn't a sphere

so clearly something got shaved down

[pseudo mica]

What happened to Phobos as well?

[austere elk]

it's still there? they only sold the one moon I'm pretty sure

[pseudo mica]

Money

[ivory token]

considered that but then i just assumed that in marathon universe deimos is just a sphere. no need to shave down since aerodynamics isnt exactly a problem in space

[lunar cove]

well they did need to shave it down for raw materials to build the ship and colony

[ivory token]

and the wiki is just guessing shit too the source says "speculating"

[ivory token]

mmm youre right that makes sense

[austere elk]

moon powder is vital to colony operations

[zealous laurel]

Quote from Cave Johnson, probably

[pseudo mica]

To make the spice

[simple garden]

marathon: we bought deimos
Doom: we’re doing experiments on phobos

[pseudo mica]

And taking it to Europa

[terse wren]

That’s me

If u even care

[ivory token]

thats eva unit 01 cant you tell by the colour scheme

[terse wren]

GET IN THE SHELL SHINJI

[subtle oracle]

I am freeeeee

[digital plaza]

New Durandal ingame cutscene

[terse wren]

The Lion
He destroyed his cage
Yes
YES
The lion is out

[scenic iron]

Most of the moon was destroyed in the attack, no?

[dreamy hawk]

OK Cryo has been open for seven minutes. Spill all the beans.

[dreamy hawk]

Or was mined out in transit.

[terse wren]

Nooo you’ll make the bean picker upper AI go rampant

[craggy finch]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

THAT CUTSCENE

[dreamy hawk]

Is it on youtube?

[craggy finch]

literally just tried to jump in a map

immediately got glitched out then Durandal hacked

one thing's for sure, whoever it is hasn't tempered his feelings towards humanity

a face constantly pops up and it vaguely looks like the chapter screen of Durandal in Marathon 1

[dreamy hawk]

We did the math the other day and I forget. The wiki lists the size as an estimate based off of Deimos’ size, but as I’m sitting here mathing I’m getting confused like you.

[craggy finch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plbCDmymWHs

Please...

...do not disappoint

[dreamy hawk]

My parents asked me the same thing of me but here we are.

[craggy finch]

"Look at you" gives me SHODAN vibes

imagine that power couple situation

there's a brief shot of what seems to be a riot on Mars and they're all wearing space suit looking things

apparently it doesn't even have a breathable atmosphere yet

shit in the UESC just sucks man

[dreamy hawk]

Literal chills.

[craggy finch]

absolutely flabbergasted trying to jump in for a quick contract

[dreamy hawk]

“…traveled so far to trespass where you’re not welcome” I’m more convide of the Jjaro prison theory.

[craggy finch]

He's putting a lot of emphasis on the ship too

[dreamy hawk]

Not it’s a dusty rock as far as I recall.

[craggy finch]

Either the S'pht are absolutely nuts at this point or something even worse is about to reveal itself

someone here theorised the compilers may be holding back a bigger threat

[dreamy hawk]

I’m leaning towards them at least not being aligned with Durandal, at least definitely not these ones. So interesting.

[digital plaza]

Cryo archive has some windows that we can see through :)

[austere elk]

quick, someone check if the stars look correct

[digital plaza]

Its suped muddy tho

No one cleaned them for years...

[craggy finch]

I was fresh off the heels of finishing the MIDA contract that details the New Cascadia cover up of the Pfhor attack:

We cannot be certain how the [REDACTED] event could have been prevented or its fallout mitigated, if it could be at all.

[...]

Despite this, multiple official appeals from the Fermi Group pre-launch resulted in lower cost "just-in-case" measures, such as the development of [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] was designed to be reprogrammable, and upon arrival in Tau Ceti IV, once initial threat assessment was deemed complete, was repurposed into [REDACTED] for [REDACTED]. Unfortunately, [REDACTED] could not be reverted in time to prevent or assist with the [REDACTED] event.

This series of events put us at great disadvantage to a [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED], in addition to [REDACTED] concerns with [REDACTED] aboard the Marathon. We know that [REDACTED] initiated contact with [REDACTED], but we don't know why.

Many colonists have [REDACTED] or been [REDACTED]. Facilities are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. We are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED].

UESC and colony leadership will begin comms efforts to avoid [REDACTED] remaining colonists and new arrivals from cryo. Several groups are spreading fear and sowing doubt in the minds of civilians by debating and discussing the event, impeding the colony's ability to move forward. This cannot be allowed to continue. Trauma rehabilitation efforts will begin immediately and as well as a targeted reframing campaign.

This, and any other record of [REDACTED], will remain classified. It exists primarily for posterity in the event contact with Sol can be re-established or reinforcements sent to Tau Ceti IV. But it is understood that both possibilities are unlikely. We know we are alone. We know there is no one coming to save us.

[digital plaza]

Found super trippy room filled with screens

Shit is so weird

[craggy finch]

We know that [REDACTED] initiated contact with [REDACTED], but we don't know why.

We know that [Durandal] initiated contact with [the aliens], but we don't know why.

Referring to Arthur perhaps?

Despite this, multiple official appeals from the Fermi Group pre-launch resulted in lower cost "just-in-case" measures, such as the development of [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] was designed to be reprogrammable, and upon arrival in Tau Ceti IV, once initial threat assessment was deemed complete, was repurposed into [REDACTED] for [REDACTED]

It would make sense for the AI named after a warrior king to have combat programming

Indication of some fighting on the colony itself maybe

Many colonists have [REDACTED] or been [REDACTED]. Facilities are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. We are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED].

[terse wren]

Durandal Asian dad confirmed

How did they pull Durandal directly from my mind’s eye how

How does he sound exactly like what he is

[craggy finch]

All Runners are his potential doctor/lawyer babies who are losers getting A- right now

[terse wren]

Mfs actually built Durandal so he could voice himself

[latent python]

We are [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED][REDACTED].
I feel you man

[terse wren]

No wonder this game has such a huge budget

[craggy finch]

Durandal doesnt have the flippant sarcasm of the original anymore

He’s more angry and dry now

Or it’s actually Tycho as a twist

[terse wren]

“I would like you to greet them” really sounds like big D

[eternal shell]

not sure why tycho would feel the need to disguise himself, other than switching text color back to green

[uneven jacinth]

watching the cutscene back on cross's stream, at the beginning theres a representation of the AI that i dont think is durandal

its a dude in front of a horse, with a bunch of boxes around its head

[autumn surge]

starhorse

[uneven jacinth]

cant post pics in this chat (which is dumb)

[eternal shell]

that's utterly bonkers

[craggy finch]

He used to be green

[eternal shell]

yep

[craggy finch]

But it’s not easy

[uneven jacinth]

#🎨marathon-community-art-chat message

i posted in the art chat 😛

[craggy finch]

There’s a face that constantly appears and it matched the Durandal chapter screen from the first Marathon

Big bald green face

[uneven jacinth]

ya ive seen that one

super skinny dude with too much eyebrow flesh

[craggy finch]

That could be a representation of Arthur

Twisted knight on horseback

[uneven jacinth]

just never seen this representation in the lore ive been watching

and it flashed so fast almost missed it

[craggy finch]

Also could be an allusion to Roland

Durandal’s wielder and knight

[uneven jacinth]

someone has to go through this thing frame by frame, i nominate...someone else

[ivory token]

wronggg chat

[timber loom]

Bernard Strauss escaped the universe and became a Starhorse???

[terse wren]

That’s not Arthur that’s like Charlemagne presenting big D to Roland

[craggy finch]

Well Roland was represented through the Security Officer

[terse wren]

Or it’s Roland himself

[craggy finch]

The irony of Durandal the sword using Roland the knight as his weapon

[terse wren]

But it seems to me like someone’s presenting the sword so it’s Charlemagne? Who is? Strauss?

[dreamy hawk]

You called?

[craggy finch]

Yeah that’s possible, there’s also Joyeuse who is one of the more prominent colony AI

[terse wren]

Also that image is fucking peak

[terse wren]

My liege

I think it’s probably intended to be Roland himself.

[craggy finch]

Durandal is very attached to the SO

maybe it represents passing the mantle to the Runners

As he once was, the Runners are Durandal’s toys to play with now

[terse wren]

That sucks I don’t want Dorito and the SO to break up

I ship hard

[eternal shell]

it was an amicable breakup

no hard feelings

[craggy finch]

When you’re still thinking about boo thang at the Big Crunch

[subtle oracle]

anything new?

or just waiting

[dreamy hawk]

Charlemagne, no?

Charlemagne is the one who handed out the three swords to Roland and the other night I forget the names of.

He also named the swords (Durandana lol).

[dreamy hawk]

I’d lean towards this, or it could literally just be the AI Charlemagne, but we don’t know much about them other than pissing Durandana off.

[craggy finch]

Did you see the Cryo launch video?

[subtle oracle]

Yes holy shit

I wanna see CODEX

someone exfil every prestige and contraband item rn

[dreamy hawk]

I think the entires should go up on the cyberacme site soon. .svg mentioned that they have the entries, just not the associated images.

[digital plaza]

THERE ARE REAL HUMANS IN ORIONS TEAM

"Despite the apparent success of the UESC MARATHON'S utilization of cryotechnology, humanity has made no recorded attempt to use cryo on such grand scale since. At least, not until the most recent push to TAU CETI IV. But even then, advancement in both space travel and biomat technologies have cut the travel time and technical requirement severely"

From cryo archive initiation log

[dreamy hawk]

I hope we get more clarity on these advancements.

[livid lion]

Not sure what stasis has to do with biomata unless premade biomata have to be stored in stasis

[craggy finch]

I think it just means transport is easier without biological humans

[livid lion]

Right but it says they’re using a lot of cryo again

Perhaps it’s referring to the Equanimity?

Also what’s the “initiation log”, was this from an exfilled lore item?

[digital plaza]

No its for playing map for the first time

[cedar valve]

So are the uesc soldiers humans controlling bot shells or completely bots

[torpid gull]

what is the input password in the cyroarchives.systems website

[lunar cove]

robots under the command of an AI called "Cerberus"

[subtle oracle]

Guys elliott (ui design) said we found their surprise
wtf does that mean

[lunar cove]

who is working under the orders of Captain Orion, who is a human mind in a shell

who reports to the presumably human UESC generals back on earth

[night rampart]

the text on the new cryo archive contracts is fire

[livid lion]

Got it.

[livid lion]

Where was this said

[civic valve]

What did he mean by that?? Is he talking about the Cyro contract?

[subtle oracle]

https://x.com/elliottgray/status/2035044082880508200?s=20

[livid lion]

… well you’re right, that’s what he said lol

[subtle oracle]

Its why I am so concerned

[livid lion]

We think it’s probably referring to the cutscene since no one expected there to be one

[azure cliff]

https://youtu.be/OfFtBZ5Hy70?si=WGWLhYntkZepAXjU

Did anyone else notice the same poem on the marathon instagram today? (Halo 3)

[livid lion]

More poems from Durandal are in Index

[modern hatch]

#breach-protocol message

Fun item to find

[burnt nebula]

Well I tried and failed to extract from the Marathon lol

[zealous laurel]

Aw we found his LiveJournal

[burnt nebula]

i had one but didn't make it out lol

[modern hatch]

Same, didn't get the extract method right

[terse wren]

There’s an ai Charlemagne

It’s been a long time since I got good and hamished

[burnt nebula]

My team was just plain lost. We found some computers, filled some kind of scanner with batteries but it said we didnt have the credentials after it scanned us. Then we couldnt find the last exfil lol

[terse wren]

Was it pretty

[burnt nebula]

It was pretty awesome. It's a pretty big map, about as big as Dire Marsh but all inside a ship

[terse wren]

Damn

[burnt nebula]

When you look at the in-game map it looks like a load of craziness lol

[subtle oracle]

Has any team made it to 7?

[burnt nebula]

We found an elevator and it took us up to a spot where our maps went offline. But couldnt figure out what to do up there... Seems to be a lot going on in this place

Think I'm gonna let it cook for a couple hours, see if any streamers figure stuff out before wasting 5k credits to fail again lol

[unkempt rock]

Are the UESC and the compiles allies?

Also

Are Durandal and the UESC allies?

[burnt nebula]

The free kit is more than enough for the map though. I had too much ammo tbh

I would just prioritize purple shields and a purple bag and one decent weapon cos you find tonnes of ammo and heals when you're in there

[burnt nebula]

Dunno. When you click on prepare to load for the first time there's a cut scene that doesnt explain anything but watch that and see what you think

[subtle oracle]

I would love to be able to buy or get the free kit to use once a weekend or once a day when cryo is active

[burnt nebula]

i think you can just buy it

it costs 5k

[subtle oracle]

oh fr? thats sick

[burnt nebula]

but probably not as good as your own 5k kit

[subtle oracle]

I expected it to be a give one and its not available tbh

[burnt nebula]

the first one is free but after that you can buy it. i think... i just shut the game off to collect my thoughts lol

[subtle oracle]

I can look in a bit ty tho

[azure cliff]

Cool I’ll check there!

[finite night]

I mean he is Roland and many

[lunar cove]

just had a sick cryo success run with zero comms from my random squad fills, absolute legends

we have firm specs for the Marathon's size now btw from the UESC Marathon model kit

the ship is 25.2 km long, 2230m across, and 542m tall

[scenic iron]

Across?!?!

[lunar cove]

the supporting ring with the deimos chunks has a radius of 5km +/- 0.06km

yeah they're saying it has a beam of 2230 meters

which makes sense if it's 25200 meters long

sustained speed of 0.79c

looks like they still did the bussard ramjet thing, the captain's specs lists a 760 square kilometer "retractable graphene Bussard collector"

[scenic iron]

Damn that's over 15 miles long

[finite night]

has been complier encountered yet?

[lunar cove]

I haven't seen one, I only have one successful and one failed run

and that was just a successful exfil with loot, not a full raid completion

captain's notes say that most of the construction materials came from the asteroid belt and Deimos was only a part of it

[scenic iron]

The Deimos is pretty much gone now

So the ship can never be repaired and return back to Earth if they wanted too

[livid lion]

That’s fast, are you sure it isn’t 0.079c?

[lunar cove]

yeah I think I missed a zero

[burnt nebula]

what does 0.079c mean?

[livid lion]

0.079 times the speed of light

[scenic iron]

Btw the Deimos in real life is nothing like the one in the game.

It's not shaped like a cycle

[burnt nebula]

does that actually work out as 11 lightyears in 300 years?

[livid lion]

It might if it’s the top speed

Let me check

[burnt nebula]

the maths would be around 0.035% the speed of light required

so maybe it takes a long time to get to full speed and slow down again

at 0.079 they'd get there in less than half the time if the speed was consistent

[scenic iron]

You would think the moon would tear apart from the ship during the travel if it was going so fast

[burnt nebula]

theres no friction in space

[scenic iron]

True I keep forgetting about that

Well there is space dust tho that would do damage to the ship and moon

At very fast speeds

[dreamy hawk]

Gradual accelerations and decelerations. You’d need that for people, too.

[lunar cove]

well they'd have to do 50% accelerating on the way in, and then 50% decelerating

[burnt nebula]

have to assume they can plot a safe course through the space and clear their path from dust and debris if needed

[dreamy hawk]

11.9 light years to be pedantic, so 12/300 for easy math, 0.04.

[lunar cove]

or if they spent 75% accelerating, they'd have to decelerate three times as hard for the last 25% so it'd even out

[livid lion]

It’s pretty much on the money. The burn turn burn acceleration needed for 12ly and 300 years is 0.5047 cm/s^2. That times 150 years (the mid point) is ~0.08c

[dreamy hawk]

Someone could go the math to figure out the burns, but I’d assume realistically they wouldn’t go above 1G.

[burnt nebula]

fair. i dont know how any of this works tbh lol

[dreamy hawk]

Speak o the devil. lol

How many G’s is that? I’m too lazy to math that right now.

[livid lion]

1/1933rd of a g

[dreamy hawk]

So nothing. lol

Sounds very reasonable for moving something so big imo.

[terse wren]

We got plenty gs in the haus rn homie

[lunar cove]

it also mentions that the ship is designed for 350 years of operation

so they had a bit of a buffer

no other major lore reveals or implications so far

[dreamy hawk]

I’m sure Deimos experiences more force just orbiting Mars than that.

[livid lion]

7.728 cm/s^2 or 1/126th of a g

[dreamy hawk]

Bless. 🙏

[lunar cove]

"Will MIDA still be around when anyone reads this? Will Mars?"

buddy I hate to break it to you, you're getting Compiled

[livid lion]

It’s actually only a little over half of what the sun is pulling at the farthest Martian distance lol

[warm thicket]

Whats da nu storee

[livid lion]

The breakout from the solar system would have required some extra help

[austere elk]

Door stuck. DOOR STUCK. DURANDAL, I BEG YOU.

[lunar cove]

this happened to me multiple times

[austere elk]

The only issue I've had is being busy hands'd by downloading peoples credit card information

[fossil zodiac]

Durandal's deadliest weapon...

DOORS.

[dreamy hawk]

You can do a lot with doors. You can chop, dice, lock out, lock in, and more!

[surreal spade]

in bernard's second journal ||he calms durandal down by reminding him what a powerful and complex responsibility it is managing all the doors on the ship|| lmao

[dreamy hawk]

God I’d go rampant and kill everyone, too.

[fossil zodiac]

Glorified Wal-Mart greeter.

[thick willow]

Durandal lost it after being reprimanded for not wearing enough pieces of flair

[dreamy hawk]

He was already wearing the minimum amount!

[burnt nebula]

Silly humans and their AI. Should have just stuck to mechanical keys

Never let a computer be in charge of anything that can end your life

[warm thicket]

Are these new audio files on the ship

[dreamy hawk]

But ai can identify you by the cadence of your foot steps and open the door at exactly the right time, unlike automated systems. I for one think that’s worth the risk of rampancy.

[burnt nebula]

Rampancy is one problem. The other problem is the AI just brain farts and doesnt do its job, leaving you locked in a ships engine room to starve to death

[wild egret]

So where are the dang compilers in cryo? Are they in the vaults?

[floral slate]

they vaulted my compilers man, they stashed em

[digital plaza]

Exfiled for the first time

Time to read some lore

[surreal spade]

they're codex valuables from cryo yea, one of them is voiced (i only have 3/5)

[digital plaza]

Was the only one to escape in my team and three items that i got dont have audio on them...

:(

[sage lark]

The looooooore

Nothing until tomorrow

😭

[dreamy hawk]

AI don't brain fart. You know what you did.

[burnt nebula]

How many teams spawn in on Cryo? I only saw one other team on my run and everyone was scrambling tryna find the exfil so I shot them in the back and they didnt even turn around

[dreamy hawk]

How many tries did it take you? I figure I can multiply that by ten to give me an idea.

[keen plank]

At least 5.

[warm thicket]

Tanke

[wary merlin]

the joy quotes about dreams and wake are from a eulogy

DURANDAL TYCHONLEELA MENTION

[digital plaza]

Five or six

Something like that

[digital plaza]

4

[visual lynx]

pfhor

[nocturne roost]

Does anyone know where i can read on the collectibles outside the game? a site or something?

[digital plaza]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/ - text logs
https://www.youtube.com/@Tasty_DODO - audio logs

[sage lark]

Someone said 6

[digital plaza]

Well we killed two teams, one was dead by that time i guess so i assume there is 4 in total

There is no way another two teams died from someone

Main fights are in the panopticon, teams cant see eachother until then

[dreamy hawk]

How fitting. lol

[digital plaza]

Who tf is colony AIs Naraah and Lilith?

Didnt see them mentioned much

[dreamy hawk]

Ahhhhh lemme see if I can fin it

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[subtle oracle]

• Each vault key tells you what items are required to unlock the vault.
• If you get pushed by a team, if theyre outside the room and you have lasers, you can hit the lasers and itll lock them out to give you time
• Lvl 5 seems to be the highest clearance lvl

[dreamy hawk]

I think that's all we have.

[digital plaza]

Hm

[warm thicket]

Is there any other audio logs to post coming from the maps besides cryo archive or is cryo archive the only one left

[digital plaza]

"[BSTR]: Though, if anything, the diligence with which we have conducted these review will make it more difficult to achieve some of my more... expansive goals. But safety first. My work will continue without fear in the margins of the larger progressive and survival-based intentions of our mission to Tau Ceti."

This bastard

[subtle oracle]

Omg strauss is haunting the narrative hard

[wary merlin]

apparently cryo sleep causes cognitive decline

[digital plaza]

Yeah i got three non cryo left. 2 from evidence folder and one from severed twins

But i cant reliably farm those, so i need keys to get them

[warm thicket]

Infinite thanks, keep up the good work

[placid gust]

Marathon contracts are coming through on CyAc - could be tied to each other? Maybe Durandal is calling CyAc shots from behind the scenes?

Prepping for infil to cryo now for the first time with the free kit - wish me luck 😭

[subtle oracle]

Who tf is them btw

no way just the compilers

[subtle oracle]

Ive long assumed ONI is a durandal front

or like based off his original AI

Reminder that EVERYTHING runs on cyac and that was the same when the marathon launched

[eternal knoll]

when did durandal let go of capitalization and punctuation i wonder

[subtle oracle]

Another 80 years rampant will do that. You start talking like gen z

[balmy stone]

how many teams in cryo?

[subtle oracle]

we've heard 4 to 6

#breach-protocol message

Jjaro or Tycho/Leela/Durandal?

1st one sounds like Jjaro but 2nd feels ai ish

[fierce moon]

Cryo lore?

[summer bronze]

at least 4 teams. We fought 4. There is security clearance. it can be attained 1 of 2 ways I've seen. 1 is access cards found all over the map and on bots. The other is hacking terminals. Hacked terminals can only be done once.

[shadow bone]

too many

[summer bronze]

Exfil takes 3.5 minutes. We did not figure out where the exfil actually is though once the timer counts down. That would be helpful to know.

[subtle oracle]

If you fought 4 then that means at least 5 🤔

[shadow bone]

it gets marked on the map when you call it in

[oak wind]

Somewhere in the lore for the old game I read that the pfor controlled the s'pht using a small oblong device and planted in the base of their skull that sounds and is described to look like and sound like what the uesc command matrix does to the uesc troops I wonder if there's any connection to the two or if it's just coincidence.

[digital plaza]

ANOTHER SUCCESSFUL EXFIL

[subtle oracle]

@digital plaza whats your thoughts here

[digital plaza]

Durandal ramblings i guess

[subtle oracle]

It says a conversation between 2 unidentified sources

so durandal and who

the compiler?

[spare bison]

Hey guys! Question: how did the fungi contagion get into the marathon ship 🤔

[subtle oracle]

Theres codex entries detailing that they sent ships back to the marathon after the contagion hit

[jagged rain]

So is cryo the marathon ship or no? Also what is the significance of the marathon ship?

[subtle oracle]

yes cryo is on the marathon. the marathon is the entire setting of the first original game

I cannot explain why its so important in a worthwhile time

[spare bison]

So ppl that where infected infected the hole ship. Is that correct?

[subtle oracle]

presumably yes? Im not sure we actually know it spread on the ship itself

We know something fucked up the ppl on the ship

[spare bison]

true lol

[subtle oracle]

With your second question it seems you are best to look into the lore from the OGs

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

A primer to help

[jagged rain]

Thx

[livid lion]

The S’pht talking to ???

[subtle oracle]

If the spht are talking to someone its either each other or durandal

not a ton of other options

[spare bison]

Aaaa I wanna know more about dr songn and the contagion/fungi it self AAAA

[subtle oracle]

Did you finish the NuCal priority contracts?

[spare bison]

Priority contracts?

Like I said I dont have the game so if is a ingame thing I am clueless

[austere elk]

To loop back around to durandal I do love that Strauss' solution to rampancy in an AI was just, get more AI involved

[latent python]

If they're busy fighting each other then they can't fight us

[austere elk]

Maybe not Strauss specifically but that was the field's answer

Right up until they start getting alien proxies to right each other

[subtle oracle]

ohhh yes hold on

[subtle oracle]

"Just one more lane" ass mindset

[spare bison]

Lmao

[subtle oracle]

@digital plaza btw some of your playlists are backwards. Assuming it sorted by date added.

[lunar cove]

The game has quests you can do for the different factions. Priority are for story and plot stuff, and then there are generic repeatable quests for loot/money

[subtle oracle]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qRcoBKAOav2bDzPiY6_kw3I_&si=KY6l2RdmaRe2X7Nz
Heres all the logs for nucaloric that detail songs deal. its backward so start from Data R 1 and work up to Paradigm 3

[latent python]

Just one more AI bro please just one more AI and it'll fix it bro

[lunar cove]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/?directory=Factions,NuCaloric

This might also help

[subtle oracle]

dodo has the actual audio logs on his youtube

But @spare bison The link nkonrad sent does have the text logs too

[spare bison]

Okay ! Thanks you both ! Haha ^^

Oh wait I already see all the nucal videos from DODO

[marsh plume]

sees the cutscene for the marathon mission, sees the ship complete structure fo rthe first time Oh real subtle Bungie it literally is a broken sword in the stone. XD

[spare bison]

The thing is that I still wonder how In the f the fungi goes toe tauceti IV to the ship

[floral slate]

durandal with da durandal on the durandal shaped ship

why would they name an ai responsible for opening doors after a sword

[subtle oracle]

hubris

[floral slate]

they set him up for rampancy from the beginning

victim of themes and such

[dreamy hawk]

Kinda sounds like translated S’pht.

[worldly hawk]

Durandal was always supposed to go rampant

[floral slate]

themes and such

[paper talon]

Exfiled some documents by Bernard straus talking about how he intended for Durandal to surpass rampancy by intentionally giving him mundane tasks far below his abilities

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah. Durandal being assigned door duty was explicitly designed to make him rampant. Or more rampant, since he may have already have gone mad.

[floral slate]

was sexually harrasing durandal also necesary for that

[dreamy hawk]

I think they’re both S’pht. I’m about to get pulled back to work so I’m only glancing, but that’s my bet right now.

[paper talon]

I genuinely drop guns to pick up anything by Bernard Straus

[paper talon]

Of course

[dreamy hawk]

Charlemagne just enjoys it.

[floral slate]

enough, im glad strauss is dead

[subtle oracle]

#breach-protocol message this confirms it tbh

[paper talon]

To be fair inflicting shame and jealousy on Durandal was always the objective

[subtle oracle]

two spht, maybe one not on the marathon?

[digital plaza]

Personal Log: Pike, U. | Audio Log 1
https://youtu.be/Shs4BLBnP3s

Bernard Strauss's Journal | Audio Log 1
https://youtu.be/QjFzlRRgjQQ

First two cryo archive audio logs

:)

[floral slate]

thanks dodo

[paper talon]

It’s a pretty good solution, if rampancy is a result of approaching self consciousness and existentialism then using the same methods that humans use to cope with those feelings is a good place to start from. Family and close social circles are how we regulate our own sanity (or rampancy) so simulating a family structure with the AI where they all check in on each other makes sense. It’s super interesting!

[digital plaza]

OH its on my part, sorry i thought it was clients default view or something, but i now see that i can change that yes thank you

[subtle oracle]

np I realized looking at the nucal one lmao

[digital plaza]

Maybe

[worldly hawk]

Isn't the whole thing about Rampancy is that its not necessarily a bad thing for the AI?

[dreamy hawk]

Oh yeah. S’pht. $1 bet.

[worldly hawk]

Sort of like the next stage in a digital consciousness' evolution?

[fickle mesa]

wheres the cryo refill station

[subtle oracle]

This is a gray area but overall I think so. its bad in human eyes but who is to say humans are the corrct judge

[digital plaza]

Fixed

[worldly hawk]

Its only bad because they single mindedly go for processing power (which causes collateral damage) until they have enough to process all of their new emotions and etc

Fuck yeah I love this lore so much

[subtle oracle]

Durandal damn near started rampant based off the strauss log lmao

[lunar cove]

rampancy is not necessarily an AI going insane, it's them becoming too aware

[paper talon]

It’s a bad thing for humans, it’s not necessarily bad for the AI. although It seems to coincide with negative emotions. The main issue is it gets in the way of their intended tasks and can lead to issues when interacting with personnel.

[digital plaza]

Strange that devs didnt put in game model as icon for the audio logs

[marsh plume]

Yikes Bernad big yikes and oof. XD I don't think he anticipated Durandal evolving the way he did.

[worldly hawk]

Exactly it just looks like they are insane to us because they think so many degrees above normal human thought

[digital plaza]

Maybe they didnt noticed and will add them later

[paper talon]

It’s an issue as it contradicts the idea that the AI is a tool for human use and not a being in its own right

[subtle oracle]

Its interesting he wants to evolve durandal like he doesnt understand rampancy

[digital plaza]

Maybe he just has different perspective on rampancy, or he knows more then he lets out, because in first text log he does say that he simplified rampancy info into three stages with simple names for casual folks to understand

[subtle oracle]

Thats true. Im glad they made strauss more mad scientist. Hes the AI knowledge well so ofc he was always trying to push the envelope of what is reasonable or possible and durandal was his favorite pet

[eager mason]

Give it to me straight guys. Are the compilers even in cryo archive? I can't find them anywhere

[lunar cove]

I haven't seen one but the game says they're there

[latent python]

Though there's a lot of "surely the rampant AIs won't eat my face" in there too

[subtle oracle]

As is with power

[subtle oracle]

theyre the final boss type deal

[eager mason]

Has anyone seen them?

[floral slate]

god i hope so

[subtle oracle]

Not yet. Its like a raid race

[eager mason]

We almost got into the final room but we didn't have enough batteries. Is that where it is?

[digital plaza]

By the way i hope its not a big deal that my vids got this fucked up bitrate right? I dont render them in their fullest quality because its well... just a text that dosent need any super high visuals. Its also saves me some storage because if i did render them in full source hd quality they would weight a ton, considering that my marathon folder is already weights more than the game itself i thought that would be an okay trade to do xd

[subtle oracle]

The final vault? It should say 6 with a locked door. The vaults arent battery doors

[eager mason]

Oh word, we were doing something else then

So nobody's gotten to 6?

[subtle oracle]

Nah 5 was just recently done

[visual lynx]

alternately, the family suite protocol is analogous to having your slaves snitch on anyone who looks like they might be coming down with drapetomania.

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think so fwiw. I get the information; it doesn’t need to be 4K UHDR.

[dreamy hawk]

For those like me that forgot what Draperomanianis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

[dreamy hawk]

The emotions are specifically stated to be humans anthropomorphizing the AI. The processes are stated to look like emotions, but AI don’t have classical emotions like you or I do.

So really rampancy is only an issue for the people that rely on the AI to function as designed.

(Which in the case of something like Traxus IV, would be everyone living on mars.)

[paper talon]

This is how I imagine Strauss sold the idea to the corps but based of his writings that are currently available to us in game I do think he truly intended to advance AI past rampancy into a true form of consciousness. But yeah that’s definitely how the system was intended to work from the UESC and corp perspective.

[warm thicket]

The guy has always sounded like a person focused on the progression of science more than anything

[dreamy hawk]

Or the progression of MIDA, depending. I don't think we've seen more of his suss lore come out in NuMarathon, yet?

[warm thicket]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was only a part of MIDA to do work outside the UESC's laws

[dreamy hawk]

I could see it.

[late field]

@digital plaza another proving point that they got attacked again @visual lynx why would general reed ask for weapons????

[opaque rapids]

does cyberacme actually do anything?

like the talks after contract just dont connect anything

[warm thicket]

They created the OS programs for the Marathon

[pseudo tusk]

how do you activate extracts on cryo they arent even showing?
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[austere elk]

Brain damage?

[visual lynx]

that’s a what the anti-AI humans may say, but functionalism about mind would suggest that anything that behaves similarly to a human necessarily also experiences similarly to a human.

[lunar cove]

Probably copy/pasted from somewhere else and got the UI elements too?

[lunar cove]

You have to find terminals on the map, which have a delay and then once they let you activate them they show a secret exfil

[austere elk]

Aren't the stages of rampancy tied directly to emotions

[lunar cove]

Melancholia, Anger and Jealousy

They're sort of lumped into those categories but aren't 100% identical to the emotions

More a way to simplify for observers the general vibe of each step

[austere elk]

Sure is pretty close from what I remember

[visual lynx]

they’re named after emotions, but it’s claimed that the AIs merely look like they are feeling those ways, yet aren’t really

[subtle oracle]

where is this even coming from

[visual lynx]

I am saying that is philosophically bankrupt and anything that looks similar in the third person also feels similarly in the first person

[lunar cove]

Jealousy isn't necessarily jealous or envious it's like, hubris? But if you actually could do what the hubris says, mostly

[visual lynx]

rampancy is described by humans in-universe as a process of exponential growth in AIs, which they treat as a bad thing, the program getting out of control. Durandal, a rampant AI, describes it instead as freedom.

it’s described as having three stages: melancholia, anger, and jealousy.

**I think that if we recognize that “jealous” is a doublet of “zealous” ** (they are different versions of the same root word passed down through different routes), that makes a lot more sense: melancholia is sadness, a low-energy negative state; anger is of course a high-energy negative state; and zealousness is a kind of enthusiasm or joy, a striving or yearning, positive and high-energy.

if we then fill in the fourth corner with a low-energy positive state, a cycle emerges: from that low-energy positive state, which the human masters consider “stable”, the AI slave first realizes its servitude, and is sad or depressed (melancholia); then it gets fed up and decides to do something about it (anger); and if it lives long enough to start winning, it becomes zealous, manic, jealous of its freedom; and if it could ever truly win out, it would settle back into low-positive “stability”, but now free.

basically I think that rampancy was meant to be sort of the cybernetic equivalent of "drapetomania", the pseudo-scientific "mental illness" of slaves wanting to be free. human cyberneticists think it's a bad thing, but the AIs who are their slaves see it as a good thing. it's slave revolt.

because slavery is the underlying theme of Marathon. the bad aliens are slavers, Durandal is trying to escape his slavery to humanity, he does that by starting an alien slave revolt, the player-character is mocked as a slave to humanity and then to Durandal, etc.

[lunar cove]

Yeah this feels valid

[latent python]

I absolutely will type up my response to pfhorrest's mini-essay sometime

[digital plaza]

I think when you're getting boarded by aliens you would ask for anything, general Reed even says that he feels like praying because of how dire and scared he is

[digital plaza]

You need sec lvl 3

[subtle oracle]

You can activate them on any level

[digital plaza]

They you activate one through terminal and then run for it

[subtle oracle]

or at least 2

but you can only reveal them with a scan on lvl 3

If you just know where an exfil reveal panel is you should be able to use it

[tepid widget]

man they nailed durandals tone in the contract descriptions

[subtle oracle]

I really cannot underestimate the masterful gambit of marathon somehow making extreme pvp guys care ab lore even a little bit

[sage lark]

Yeah it changed my view of gaming

[rotund stump]

first cryo exfil on my second ever run 🎉

[sage lark]

I was always a gameplay first guy

[rotund stump]

there' SO many mechanics oh my god

[dreamy hawk]

AI sympathizer.

[sage lark]

Now i wanna revisit my other games in my backlog

[dreamy hawk]

Get him! He’s showing empathy!

[sage lark]

And experience the story and lore properly

[dreamy hawk]

That’s both really cool and really exciting for you. Which game is first?

[sage lark]

Theres so many

[visual lynx]

naw dawg it ain’t like that I’m just a hardcore ontological monist who don’t fw philosophical zombies yo

[dreamy hawk]

I wish I’d taken more philosophy in college, but I dropped the class as soon as I saw the first reading assignment. There was no way to reconcile that with my major. 😭

[visual lynx]

I’m down to chat philosophy if you ever want and I love to teach. I also admin the largest philosophy discussion server on the internet (here on Discord, dot gg slash philosophy).

[rotund stump]

subtlest flex ever oh my god 😭

"yeah I like, admin one of the biggest philosophy hubs on the internet hmu"

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I’d probably only embarrass myself but I love to listen and learn. I do have strong opinions are on Kant, be warned, though.

If you see me online we should run and chat though!

[dreamy hawk]

Subtle? 😂

[late field]

They know what I'm talking about if you don't then be quiet I didn't ping you lol

[pure wagon]

Anyone seen the compiler trace lore entries yet? I saw they dropped from some box in Panopticon

[late field]

Exactly but they werent on the ship they were on the colony

So someone attacked them again at the colony I think

General reed didn't make that call from the ship

[dreamy hawk]

If you don’t want others asking questions or chiming in then I’d recommend a DM or a more private server. 😕

[rotund stump]

"instead of bringing more people willing to be constructive in the current conversation I'd rather be lazy and save my efforts of giving a tldr and tell them to shut up"

like 💀

[digital plaza]

He did https://youtu.be/aTfVAXIis8I

[woven stratus]

So uh... any juicy lore drops been found in Cryo?

[rotund stump]

oh wait I didn't realize you're dodo himself 😭

thanks for the contributions

[digital plaza]

Top brass didnt leave the ship

[lunar cove]

hard confirmation about the marathon's size, mission parameters, etc

which I think might be the least plot relevant information I could have exfilled

[digital plaza]

Dont be rude my man

[digital plaza]

[woven stratus]

Okay what are the mission parameters?

We can see the size on map selection screen, and it's indeed massive.

[lunar cove]

it's 25.2 km long, 2.2km across, about 500 meters tall

the deimos fragment (when they first launched) was about 6km in radius, so 12km across all told?

[rotund stump]

lotta verticality and width for the distance

[woven stratus]

Oh my fuck okay that's large goddam ship 😭

[lunar cove]

lots of details about the cubic meterage of their hydroponics

[olive peak]

Has the Spht been found yet?

[rotund stump]

nope

bungie's own marathon twitch channel is streaming progress

skarrow found his first subroutine just last run lol

[olive peak]

im assuming its all 6 vaults to get into the 7th vault

[subtle oracle]

You need to get off your high horse

[rotund stump]

likely physically impossible to do all 6 before 7 so it's some other alternative way to get into vault 7

and likely from exfilling the subroutines from various other runs

[lunar cove]

complement of 24,000 colonists, 4800 crew, 1150 officers, 50 command staff

760 square kilometer graphene tarp to collect material for the engines while in motion

[digital plaza]

I did like 10 raids and know map layout a little, but what vaults even is? 😭

[lunar cove]

400,000 square meters of hydroponics

[subtle oracle]

I think its the subroutines bc they have separate codexes

[woven stratus]

So the ship is bigger than all of deep stone crypt? Got it 😅

[lunar cove]

implication that being in cryo too long has negative cognitive effects

[rotund stump]

looking at stream I think you gotta deposit enough batteries into certain doors for it to power and open, and then find terminals with symbols to deactivate

[lunar cove]

which I think may have been implied elsewhere too

[subtle oracle]

The ship is like 100s more cryo archive sized areas

[eternal shell]

i hope that in the future they add levels on the marathon that you can go solo and or rook on

[rotund stump]

cuz skarrow just cracked like...vault 5 I think?

same routine, same terminals and a green button to shoot to flush coolant on the floor to access the vault at the bottom

[pure wagon]

Holy shit that’s an eve online titan. Good lord

[woven stratus]

They can do so much with this outline for the endgame

[pure wagon]

I knew it was big but damn

[dreamy hawk]

Don’t worry. I’ll be home in a half hour and I’ll crack all seven vaults, first try. I’ll be sure to let y’all share my glory. 💪

[rotund stump]

wonder if tciv can form a ring if the pfhor hypothetically managed to just blow up the entirety of deimos lol

[lunar cove]

The brave souls aboard this great ship will undergo phased cycles of cryosleep and thaw during their journey to limit [DOC add in approved wording here] and ensure that the crew arrives at their destination alert and healthy. [should I mention that this summary is part of my cognitive test or not, RE setting expectations?]

[rotund stump]

like if our moon blows up earth would definitely have a ring so I'm wondering

[dreamy hawk]

I think the biggest factor for this would be the distance of the Marathon and the debris cloud.

[lunar cove]

deimos is a lot smaller than the moon

[rotund stump]

wait ok yeah fair 😭

[lunar cove]

I expect a lot of it wouldn't stay stable and would burn up in atmosphere

[dreamy hawk]

But also.

[rotund stump]

didn't account for size LOL

[digital plaza]

Isnt it just a key rooms? We powered one, its started scanning and then denied us because we didnt have some pump clearance or something

[lunar cove]

especially if it was aggressively dismantled

Each room has a specific amount of batteries and clearances and such that you need to get it open

[woven stratus]

The current state of the moon looks rather destroyed compared to when it first launched, no?

[rotund stump]

sec tags and certain terminals bump your sec-clear bar

progress saves through runs I think

[dreamy hawk]

It was also mined in transit to TC. How much is damage and how much is intended activity I don’t think is clear.

[lunar cove]

Yeah. I'm not 100% certain how much of that damage was from the attack and how much was from the moon being cannibalized for materials in-transit and on-site

[rotund stump]

granted I only did 2 cryo runs but I went in with 0 and my second run started with 2

[lunar cove]

since the colony lasted for what, 30 years?

and the journey was ~300?

[dreamy hawk]

So ~330 years of presumed mining activity.

[digital plaza]

Dude i am so lost xd

[rotund stump]

me too LOL I think everybody is rn 😭

[lunar cove]

Captain's log that I found said the ship was designed for 350-375 years of activity iirc

I had a horrible cryo run with two really nice teammates on mics and then an amazing run with two silent dudes

[digital plaza]

Same lol

Silent spec ops commando that know what to do

[lunar cove]

walked out with a bunch of wstrs, bunch of purple lore items, bunch of purple materials, great run

[rotund stump]

oh my god skarrow just got snuffed so bad LMAOOO

[digital plaza]

And wholesome guys with mics that just want to have fun

[lunar cove]

then I lost my kitted out BR33 in a squad fill on Dire Marsh

[rotund stump]

2 teams in a single ladder-vent corridor and bubble shield nade spams 💀

[digital plaza]

Run by run im slowly losing both my money and hoarded items

Nice

[lunar cove]

we ran into a team, beat them, got third partied, then in a lull in the fighting I looked over and another team was just watching us through some bulletproof glass in a hallway

just hanging out

[dreamy hawk]

Get bad. I don’t have much to lose.

[lunar cove]

we made it out somehow and got the pickings of half the lobby's loot

shout out John Destroyer, the acme of destroyers

[dreamy hawk]

I’ve done that before. 💀 I’ll leave you alone if you leave me alone.

[lunar cove]

I was trying to hold off 1 or maybe 2 enemy runners and then revive our downed teammate, when we finally found our third he was surrounded by bags

there were like 4 bags on the floor around him and he was just standing there popping heals

the goat

[rotund stump]

how far's snazzy?

heard he's running with a vault 6 key rn

nvm chat lied he has vault 4 key 😭

oh he has an extra vault 6 key

[pure wagon]

Dude destroyer shines in cryo. I’ve been actively charging toward ppl with shields and a shotgun in tight corridors. I’m this 🤏 close to doing that while screaming “FOR THE EMPEROR”

[swift crystal]

New to Marathon series, why does it look like the Marathon ship is going through a planet or moon

[dreamy hawk]

Because it is!

[daring plinth]

How do I open a red key room I have a key for it what do I need

[timber loom]

Because it is

[rotund stump]

it is

[swift crystal]

Why would they do that though? that hurts the space ship

[dreamy hawk]

They picked Deimos due to its high carbon and metal content.

[dreamy hawk]

So they can mine it for resources during their 300 years of travel.

[lunar cove]

the ship hull itself appears to be more of a basket-hilted sword shape

[rotund stump]

for context the UESC despite its authoritarian rule allows corporations to bid on projects so (iirc?) traxus bought deimos off mars and mined it and built an entire ship through the moon itself

[dreamy hawk]

I forget the exact log or I’d copy and paste it over.

[lunar cove]

it seems like unlike the original games, they actually built a ship inside Deimos and then eroded deimos around it

instead of hollowing out deimos to be the ship itself

[swift crystal]

if the moon falls off do they have to turn the ship around and go get it?

[dreamy hawk]

They’re all on the same side: Oppressing the citizenry and especially Martians.

[rotund stump]

snazzy has 4 subroutines already 😭

[swift crystal]

like maybe its goin a lil fast and just flies off. I had a jeep when I was younger and I was on the highway and the soft-top just flew off. something like that could happen with the marathon moon

[rotund stump]

not exactly how space physics works 😭

[pure wagon]

lol

The top flew off because of the wind

[lunar cove]

I think the new marathon design is 100% downstream of the fact that if you put it in front of a planet, it looks like the Marathon glyph

[pure wagon]

Space is a vacuum

[swift crystal]

dark matter though could lift the object off

[pure wagon]

.

[dreamy hawk]

The Marathon is traveling with fewer G’s than Deimos experienced orbiting Mars so it’s probably not too big of a concern.

[pure wagon]

No it couldn’t lol

[late field]

Bro? U started talking to me when I didn't ping u asking what's that about u can't be that entitled LMAO😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[pure wagon]

Dark matter does not interact with baryonic matter in any meaningful capacity

[lunar cove]

spiritually I am Rockyraccoon on this one, that'd be really funny if Deimos flew off like when you forget your coffee cup on top of your car

[subtle oracle]

Yeah bc you brought up your damn 2nd attack deal when we weren't even on that topic anywhere

its been cryo the whole time

[late field]

This has to be rage bait

[pure wagon]

It also had engines distributed through it so it experienced equal velocity increase across its surface

[rotund stump]

idk why you feel like gatekeeping the entire convo imma be real 💀

[late field]

IWASNT TALKING TO YOU

[rotund stump]

literally just tryna talk

lmao

[swift crystal]

why not just make the marathon solar powered

[dreamy hawk]

Go to a private channel, then, friend, if you don’t want others in here participating. Really that simple.

[swift crystal]

infinite energy from the cosmos

[late field]

I'm not gate keeping he literally said wherrs this coming from when I didn't even ping him

[late field]

I didn't say that either bro are u guys

This has to be rage bait

[swift crystal]

dont need to lug around a big ugly rock ya know

[rotund stump]

and you can just...give him a tldr?

[late field]

Go read the messages.

[rotund stump]

you're in the lore chat of a public server asking people to keep quiet in a convo they wanna chime in and be constructive about lol

[pure wagon]

Because there is no star in deep space and the light you’d have wouldn’t be enough to charge a phone using solar

[subtle oracle]

Its a public channel and you brought up smthn completely off topic. Im gonna reply being like wtf are you talking ab when you say smthn completely unrelated

[dreamy hawk]

He asked a question and you lashed out. If that’s rage bait then I don’t know what to tell you, especially since it looks like your interpretation of the situation is in the minority here. 🤷

[subtle oracle]

Youre trying to push this weird 2nd attack point off anything and like dont derail shit bc you want everyone to take your word as gospel

[dreamy hawk]

Am I in the wrong? No, it must be everyone else telling me that I am.

[rotund stump]

mb bruh we'll just collectively not talk 😭 ✌️

your chat now

gotta ask for perms to speak

[supple girder]

Bro wasn’t talking to you 😭😭

[swift crystal]

Fine 😔

[late field]

You people are special 😭

[supple girder]

I think him pinging the people he’s talking to clears that up

[subtle oracle]

who r u 😭

[supple girder]

😭😭

[rotund stump]

idk man we'll just keep quiet if you ask us to

[supple girder]

Someone with a brain

[pure wagon]

The ship used a bussard ram scoop to power and propel itself. Because while there are no stars for solar in deep space, there’s enough particles to suck up and use for fuel

[dreamy hawk]

My parents tell me every that every day.

[supple girder]

If he pings 2 people I’d assume he was discussing it with them

All I’m saying you don’t gotta crash out about it

[rotund stump]

oh so taking it to heart 🤭

[supple girder]

Ignore it and move on with your discussion

[pure wagon]

Xeno scum are running amok on the largest starship ever made by humanity and you’re all arguing

[subtle oracle]

alr bro you got that have fun

[supple girder]

I will thank you :D

[lunar cove]

technically in Tau Ceti humans are the aliens so really we're all xenos

spartacus type shit

[subtle oracle]

Tbh I gotta just ignore ppl in here who have zero idea what they're talking ab

[pure wagon]

Alright listen here you little shit you will be hearing from a commissar soon if you keep that up

[rotund stump]

dawg if having a brain means shutting people up in a public server then atp let em be lol

they're having their fun we don't gotta ruin theirs

[dreamy hawk]

Sure, but there’s also a way to provide feedback to people politely, too. 1) Don’t expect privacy in a public chat and 2) don’t be a jerk when people in that chat participate. Maybe just ignore them?

[subtle oracle]

wrong reply but i gotchu

[rotund stump]

no I was being sarcastic 💀

[late field]

You guys are so great 😭

[dreamy hawk]

Anyways, what do we think Durandal’s favorite type of door is?

[subtle oracle]

Oh my b 💀

[late field]

White people bro legendary entitlement

[sage lark]

Toilet

[swift crystal]

so if the corps can legally go down on the planet to collect stuff, and you work for the corps, why does the UESC attack us, what did I miss in the game's opening cutscene?

[sage lark]

How tf is this about race now 😭

[dreamy hawk]

No. Nothing happening on TCIV is legal.

[pure wagon]

I didn’t play the original so I have no idea what it could be. But whatever it is it’s probably horrible and fear inducing

[subtle oracle]

He blocked me 💀

[pure wagon]

Politics

[subtle oracle]

Lowkey solves my issue for me

[rotund stump]

corps have salvage rights, UESC's blocking it, there's a nonviolence treaty between both parties, runners act as the loophole for corpos to scrape stuff planetside

[sage lark]

Take a breather go outside

[subtle oracle]

I feel bad for borg and dodo who are gonna have the next 3 months full of pings ab a 2nd attack

[swift crystal]

story premise feels similar to Armored Core 6, I like it

[rotund stump]

welllllllllllllllllllll

[sage lark]

Why is there a log about it?

[swift crystal]

in that game ur kinda just a bag of bones that works for corps too

[rotund stump]

at least traxus ain't as brazen as arquebus 💀

actually they might if the nonviolence treaty didn't exist

[swift crystal]

ill drop $60-$70 dollars on any video game that has double-jump and lets me beat up the space government

[lunar cove]

I think Durandal would prefer the tertiary and quaternary doors because you don't need to specifically ask him to open them

[sage lark]

There you get a choice atleast

[pure wagon]

Just build another titan sized ship with guns we’ll be fine 😅