📚marathon-lore-discussion

[dreamy hawk]

If you have the money or means, you can buy or design a custom shell.

[latent python]

But TCIV is the corps chucking thousands of runners at a problem, none of whom have those resources

[dreamy hawk]

It’s a quantity solution, not a quality, solution.

[spice carbon]

What’s TCIV?

[dreamy hawk]

Tau Ceti IV

[spice carbon]

Ah I missed that

[eternal shell]

speak for yourself, i'm S-tier all the way through 😎

[dreamy hawk]

I’m until Nona makes you shoot yourself up with something again.

[dreamy hawk]

Abbreviations are problematic for many reasons! But so convenient.

[latent python]

At least the corps offer a range of designer tees for your vandal shell

[dreamy hawk]

Rip triage.

[latent python]

Triage gets designer uhhh racing stripes

[eternal shell]

well that's good

makes him go faster

[latent python]

I do kinda want one of the skins to be an F1 livery

[spice carbon]

Honestly do hope they make cosmetic that make the skins look a bit more unique

[eternal shell]

yeah feels like we're covered on black and dark grey stuff now

[latent python]

I'm sure they will, often launch skins are just kinda recolors

[eternal shell]

i want to blend in so bring on that cyan and glowing green stuff

[latent python]

And yeah after achromatic rush there better be some neon

[eternal shell]

the nucaloric skins are damn good

gonna go all arachne once those are out but there's a lot of good ones when you exfil with free kits

[analog pelican]

I’m sat here waiting for my dog to get his hair cut, got an hour to kill and forgot to bring a book. Somebody entertain me with some lengthy lore exposition or a link to a good lengthy video. Danke

🐸

[surreal jackal]

If the UESC want us off the planet so bad then why don't they just blast the printer ship out of the sky and be done with it

[eternal shell]

probably too well armored and armed

if it turns into a ship to ship fight we both probably go down

[lunar cove]

as I understand it, there's a level of tolerance/deniability involved

[eternal shell]

but the equinamity is on its way and will be here in a year i guess? that might change things

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message and #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[lunar cove]

one of the Traxus logs is a negotiation between them and the UESC and they basically say "we're not using illegal mercenaries, the same way you're not jeopardizing your vital contracts with us by illegally stopping us from landing at the colony"

the implication being that the Corps will tolerate the UESC stonewalling them, as long as the UESC tolerates them nipping around the edges with deniable mercenaries

[dreamy hawk]

No one is in a position to really call out the other without harming themselves.

[lunar cove]

and that it would be way more costly for both sides to have an open fight, or even an open legal battle

and the UESC has an infinite budget and doesn't care about losing bots, and the corps don't care about losing runners

[raven marlin]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/

Gorge yourself on the ancient texts by Hamish Sinclair

[dreamy hawk]

UESC is also engaged in some fairly illegal things on Tau Ceti, which while existing in extralegal space, would also probably still be a PR nightmare if publicized.

[analog pelican]

Merci beaucoup

🐸

[wintry summit]

Don't spoil Paradigm Shift, but I just finished NuCaloric's rank 10 - 20 priority contract. The lore of Dire Marsh reminds me in a lot of ways like Dead Space, only instead of the marker it's something else

[terse wren]

Based

[rustic light]

also reminds me of Annihilation

[dreamy hawk]

How familiar are you with other Marathon/Bungie lore?

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[distant cedar]

Seems like i finally gotta watch that movie huh

[sacred sage]

w

[lunar cove]

or read the books

[distant cedar]

I will, but my book backlog is even greater than the movie one :/

[lunar cove]

rip

[spare bison]

Hi guys ! Hru?

Already see all the nucal audio logs and omg this is both sad an JUCY hehehe

[lunar cove]

I feel like a lot of the corporate logs are really interesting in the way they show the context for how the UESC/Corps fit together

[opaque glade]

/DAC

[spare bison]

especially for a fungi nerd like me lol

[dreamy hawk]

Thick as thieves.

[terse wren]

Imagine thinking people on the internet can read I can barely tie my shoes

[lunar cove]

and how we as the runners collectively kind of have a better picture of what's going on than any single interest group

[terse wren]

(they're velcro)

[dreamy hawk]

God bless Velcro!

[terse wren]

d'oh

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t know quite about that. There seems to be a lot that they do know that we don’t. Traxus and the UESC are already hashing out contracts on who gets to produce a cure for the contagion.

[spare bison]

Wow wow wow WOW

[dreamy hawk]

Also the UESC has a lot more information on [REDACTED] than we do (S’pht/P’fhor). I do imagine this asymmetry will change with time, though.

[spare bison]

The contagion is STILL on??

[distant cedar]

Well, yeah

Have you seen AI Uplink?

[spare bison]

Idk who that is lmao

[distant cedar]

Location, Dire Marsh

[spare bison]

I dont have the game 🙃

[distant cedar]

The AI cores are covered in an entire Fungal colony

(presumably the novel contagion)

[spare bison]

ohhh yea ! That is where darius (nucal AI) was

I remenber

[distant cedar]

yu

[serene garnet]

do u think the colonists farted

[dreamy hawk]

No. They were all constipated.

[dreamy hawk]

No because everyone keeps shooting me when I just wanna explore. 😭

We need to get a full lobby of friends just like you used to be able to do in Halo 3 MM. 😂

[distant cedar]

❤️

[dreamy hawk]

Got so many achievements done that way. 💀😂

[wintry summit]

Just that durandal was a rampant AI on board the marathon and that I would consider him to be a fledgling cosmic horror, but that the Mararhon universe has room for a big bad cthulu

[distant cedar]

well though luck

theres several

[dreamy hawk]

Check out the link I sent below that message; fun theory about the anomaly and Cthulhu.

[wintry summit]

Oh neat. "Under the Yucatan" is also an alien sci-fi explored in GTFO. That they dug deeply and found a cosmic horror contagion that crossed dimensions and time to kill humanity on earth

[dreamy hawk]

Dead Space, too, no? The Yucatán is just cursed ig.

[wintry summit]

Its a reference to the dinosaur extinction event meteor

[dreamy hawk]

Yes.

[wintry summit]

The eli16 of GTFO lore is that a traditional mining megacorp dug deep and greedily until they discovered a Stargate umpteen miles below ground.

Instead of clankers they used lobotomized PMCs stored in cryo and they are brain wiped to follow orders from a central AI.

The Stargate led to an exoplanet with a contagion. Humanity is extinct because it broke containment but the facility AI and the soldiers are still doing missions because the AI is curious

It's not a copy paste of dead space or marathon. Just a common Sci fi trope.

The idea that the marathon universe exiled a big bad to TCIV is neat

[dreamy hawk]

What does GTFO stand for?

[magic vector]

Get the F**k out

[wintry summit]

The video game GTFO

[magic vector]

But it is also a video game yeah

[wintry summit]

It's probably the hardest difficulty co-op shooter on the market

[dreamy hawk]

Oh literally just that. Gotcha. Found it.

[wintry summit]

So marathon has a sapient self-aware virus killing us and GTFO has a genetic primordial prion that turned humans into body horrors

[dreamy hawk]

Ah. Not necessarily.

[magic vector]

I wonder what happened to the rest of the colonists, early reports in the lore state that there is very little evidence of human remains despite there being a large # of colonists. In the original Marathon, humans were taken captive, and I wonder if some sort of similar fate befell a lot of the colonists on Tau Ceti.

Lore wise, it would make sense if th story was going to advance further and Shells would deploy to new maps with new items + lore entry’s to further the overarching Marathon story

[wintry summit]

There is a survivor story in one of the faction salvage on Dire Marsh

I haven't completed the lore bits but he appears to be aware of a cosmic horror, the horror is aware of him, and he isn't being allowed to die

[dreamy hawk]

In Pathways into Darkness the Sleeping God (likely a W’rk) was shown to be able to manipulate the environment as it dreamt. If the contagion is the anomaly’s doing then it might be more W’rk chaos. If Pfhorrest is right, the planet might have some consciousness (the Jjaro had AI) that could be manipulating things. I don’t believe there’s any evidence to suggest that the fungus itself is sentient, just absurdly, impossibly adaptable and inconsistent.

[wintry summit]

And all of those funny words are a reference to the XCOM style alien slaver, yes?

[dreamy hawk]

There are a handful; I can try to collate some but it’s hard on my phone at work.

[wintry summit]

No need, I'll explore it in game.

[dreamy hawk]

No. The W'rkncacnter is, as far as we know, is some kind of primordial chaos. Whether it’s an individual, an alien race, a force of nature, or something else is unknown. The Jjaro were the super advanced Forerunner analog that locked it up. The P’fhor are the evil slaver empire.

In primordial space, timeless creatures made waves. These waves created us and the others. Waves were the battles, and the battles were waves.

Fleeing all W'rkncacnter, Yrro and Pthia settled upon Lh'owon. They brought the S'pht, servants who began to shape the deserts of Lh'owon into marsh and sea, rivers and forests. They made sisters for Lh'owon to protect and maintain the paradise.

When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface.

[raven marlin]

One of us, one of us. Went down the rabbit hole years ago. Paul Stamets’ work was my springboard.

[spare bison]

Omg I love paul S work too !!

[wintry summit]

Great. Our in universe cthlulus that are aware of our existence are Greek gods. Fantastic

(Not a serious reply, just having fun)

[dreamy hawk]

Or at least creatures that have been mythologized.

[raven marlin]

Pretty cool guy, really blew my mind

[dreamy hawk]

But the next time someone says Marathon is hard sci-fi I’m going to scream while spamming this in chat. 😂

[spare bison]

When i saw him in "fantastic fungi" I said to myself "you a good guy my man!" Lmao

[wintry summit]

Now you have me thinking on which author was the last one that created a literary trope that wasn't derived from something else.

Lovecraft is up there (and his trope was racism... 😳). Again, not a serious comment that I don't want to get into.

[raven marlin]

I think maybe narratively what they’re going for here is fungi as a biological network to escape the confines of the machine world. It makes sense within the whole “nature’s internet” concept.

[spare bison]

THIS

Same idea

[raven marlin]

But I have been going full schizo lately, so 🤷

[spare bison]

Hey wanna dm? If that is all right ofc ^^

[raven marlin]

Sure thing

[dreamy hawk]

Nothing under the sun is original.

[dreamy hawk]

Fungi are always watching. Listening. Speaking to one another. 🍄

[wintry summit]

I dunno. I still like sci-fi airplanes and spaceships before human invented actual jets and spaceships

[sage lark]

what are you on about

[distant cedar]

#bungie did it again

[burnt nebula]

best bot farming method guys? lets get this cryo chamber unlocked

[sage lark]

someone said dcon quest and spamming open close on a dcon in outpost

[wintry summit]

Making connections between dire marsh's lore and the literary inspiration for it

[sage lark]

it spawns 3 uesc

[terse wren]

First human stories were hack job copies of superior australopith originals

[wintry summit]

Are we supposed to believe that the humans in marathon solved quantum entanglement? That's how the FTL communication and exfils work, yes ?

Or did they make no effort to explain it and it's just a video game

[dreamy hawk]

Yes.

[terse wren]

Notably “ooh ooh ahh ahh” and “banana”

And the popular favorite [extremely loud fart]

[dreamy hawk]

Humans in Marathon have also had access to teleportation and other limited range FTL for centuries.

[terse wren]

Ya I’m teleporting my shitpoasts right across the world rn

[wintry summit]

Do we know where the shells are physically located? Surely SekGen is making them on location somewhere in tau ceti

[dreamy hawk]

Printed on site like everything else. Where and how that looks is a big question/area of debate.

[terse wren]

Worm womb where

[dreamy hawk]

We know the Equanimity was on its way with an FTL comms relay; I suspect whatever corp built it has infrastructure in system. Runners also only took 5 years, I believe, to arrive, so it’s possible corps are getting other infrastructure in place more rapidly than previously possible, too.

[wintry summit]

Runners remind me of the Umbral Choir from Endless Space. They live in the wires!

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Endless Space reference in the wild. Ever.

[lunar cove]

Marathon is not hard sci-fi but it is rooted in it

[dreamy hawk]

Don’t make me tap my sign! 😂

[lunar cove]

The setting of the og games were a hard-leaning society encountering a soft society and losing their collective shit

[dreamy hawk]

The fantasy elements definitely take more of a backseat.

Especially in the first game. I don’t think there’s any, really, other than future tech.

[terse wren]

Marathon 1 is really a masterpiece

[lunar cove]

Marathon '26 is still a mostly hard SF society in process of becoming a soft one, but the tension now comes from the soft sci-fi UESC realizing they're not in an SF world, they're in horror/fantasy

[wintry summit]

I think the Umbral Choir, Vodyani, and Riftborn are very interesting ideas. I like the ides of hard science fiction meeting soft and losing their mind

[terse wren]

I respect that they decided to go softer with m2 and then were like — well we’ve opened Pandora’s box let’s just go absolute apeshit max weird with Infinity

[lunar cove]

though a fun point of tension can also be the ways that highly advanced hard SF technology can often outdo some soft sf stuff

[terse wren]

Ending of Wizards ass vibes

[lunar cove]

that's the Bakshi one where the gnome has a luger right

[north shell]

Can someone explain something to me? So did Mida created the battleroids that were on Tau Ceti or was it just the UESC?

[sage lark]

MIDA smuggled them on board

[wintry summit]

My recollection of the wiki is that UESC and a 1990s Traxus precursor crested the ten battleroids.

Mida was responsible for not reporting Durandal's melancholy

As to how the 'roids got on board I don't remember

[north shell]

So Mida smuggled them all or only the one we play as?

[sage lark]

it smuggled all 10 on board

[north shell]

And are Battleroids AI?

[sage lark]

no

[wintry summit]

Not conventionally. Remember the original bungie devs were kids in college who thought they were cool because they knew lightning. (Lightning? I typed Latin)

Some of the OG lore is like Battletechs. A lot of fevered imagination and im19andthisisdeep

[terse wren]

Yes. Shitty movie tbh

[lunar cove]

shout out the gnome with the gun though that owned

[terse wren]

Yes

[terse wren]

I mean the Latin is pretty cool

[dreamy hawk]

Ah I don’t know about Traxus. There were two asteroid governments that were fighting and then they accidentally warcrimed one another.

[terse wren]

Hate it when that happens.

[dreamy hawk]

“Whoops everyone is dead.”

giggles
“Sorry!”

[wintry summit]

Yeah I don't think Traxus was a real thing in 1995. Isn't Traxus (or it least the icon) an homage to Halo?

The battleroids are a rough draft of what runners are

[dreamy hawk]

I broadly caution everyone to be very skeptical of the wiki right now.

[terse wren]

I gotta read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep

[dreamy hawk]

They’re conflating a lot of NuLore and old and generally just getting things wrong.

[wintry summit]

Yeah Traxus was cribbed from Halo 3

[sage lark]

Traxus was in the ogs

[dreamy hawk]

Which cribbed it from Marathon.

[sage lark]

as Traxus IV

[burnt nebula]

Like what?

[wintry summit]

Neat

[dreamy hawk]

Traxus is old

[dreamy hawk]

Ah just about anything to do with the canon timeline currently. Synopses of what happened to the colony, especially.

[sage lark]

they stuffed all the timelines together basically

[burnt nebula]

How do you know what the canon is? Durandal is manipulative.

[dreamy hawk]

A lot of the citations I’ve seen are promotional materials or “speculation.”

[wintry summit]

The nucaloric quest line handles the environmental story telling for Dire Marsh. It you will see some Sci fi biology mcguffins that are bad

[shell needle]

I’m a bit surprised the colony had food problems to be honest. I’d the phor showed up there would be a lot of phor corpses to eat.

[burnt nebula]

Like what?

[lunar cove]

it's unclear if they actually landed on the surface in the new timeline, or if they did, in a clearly limited capacity

[dreamy hawk]

An example for something we’re certain is different in NuLore.

[wintry summit]

|| a pathogen that is self-aware and rapidly evolved itself to attack humans -- an alien to TCIV -- with neurotoxin ||

[dreamy hawk]

The P’fhor did not land on the surface, or at least not land with nearly the same force as they did in the original triology.

[burnt nebula]

and how is that a mcguffin?

[wintry summit]

Wouldn't it be possible that the pathogen metabolized the phor genotype into something benign?

[dreamy hawk]

Oh that’s easily explained by the anomaly.

Especially if it’s a W’rk, or if the pathogen is Jjaro in nature.

If it’s a W’rk, you have space chaos magic. If it’s the Jjaro, you have super crazy advanced technology and AI.

[wintry summit]

|| a sapient or intelligent designed pathogen is a novel concept.|| it would be as if the Martians in War of the World's died because human bacteria evolved to generate a very special VX agent that only Martians could metabolize and it would have required deux ex machina to know how to formulate

[dreamy hawk]

And I feel like, far from a MacGuffin, this is something we’re explicitly trying to figure out and understand. It’s a pretty central plot element.

[wintry summit]

I think the jury is out, but even if it is just environmental storytelling I'm all for it.

If they are taking inspiration from lovecraftian pulp the different plots don't have to ever resolve

[burnt nebula]

how is it a mcguffin though? it's not some random arbitray thing that exists solely to connect 2 plot pieces

[wintry summit]

TIL what a mcguffin was lol

[burnt nebula]

a mcguffin is like a magic key that explains away a 5 year old mystery

[austere elk]

||Just read a tick milk entry saying the natural fauna seems to be doing this, so I doubt it's just a pathogen doing it||

[burnt nebula]

like instead of good writing you just throw a magic object in to the story to solve a problem

thats what a mcguffin is

[wintry summit]

I thought a mcguffin was something like The One Ring or the Alpha / Omega blood

[burnt nebula]

the lord of the rings is literally about the rings. the most important ring cant be a mcguffin

[austere elk]

That's not really what a mcguffin

[lunar cove]

I think the very clear implication is that something, whether Jjaro or Wrk or something else in origin, is actively directing the wildlife to sabotage the colony

[dreamy hawk]

In fiction, a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is an object, device, or event that is necessary to the plot and the motivation of the characters, but insignificant, unimportant, or irrelevant in itself.

[austere elk]

Deus ex machina is what you're referring to

[lunar cove]

not that the fungus is just doing that for fun

[burnt nebula]

if the humans had zero chance to defeat a huge army and all seemed lost, then they found a magic stone that defeated the entire enemy army in one swoop. that stone would be a mcguffin.

[dreamy hawk]

That one Song log is still so chilling.

[dreamy hawk]

The Cyborgs on the colony, in M1, for example.

[lunar cove]

the fungus is not the top of the food chain, the fungus is a tool someone or something is using

[dreamy hawk]

Those would be a MacGuffin. They were relevant to the plot to move things along/create the narrative, but then they’re dropped and never heard of again because they didn’t actually matter aside from saving the colony.

[burnt nebula]

well... i like the new lore

im here for the eerie post humanism

[latent python]

nuMarathon is cyberpunk in a way Bungie hasn't been so far

[burnt nebula]

Old Marathon wouldnt have made for an interesting new game

It's been done

[latent python]

It was very interesting for its time

But that time was 1996

[burnt nebula]

Yeah. But not now.

Best they could do is remake the old games. But they would just look like a Doom/Halo clone.

[latent python]

And it's not like the old stuff isn't still compelling, there's good bones there

But I am very much enjoying this too

[austere elk]

I'm just waiting for timeline bullshit to come up.

[burnt nebula]

I just don't think the old games would have any mass appeal at all. Most people wouldn't get it... But worms weaving post human digital consciousness into disposable mercenaries, enslaved by dystopian corporations. That's a hooking point.

[latent python]

It's a hook that still is built upon the original

The original had cybernetics and weird biology and digital consciousnesses and Eldritch horrors and interplanetary politics and so does nuMarathon

[burnt nebula]

I never cared about the original games, I never played them until the Xbox 360... And sorry to disrespect the OG fans but I just look at the new game as it's own thing. Like I said, I'm here to immerse myself in weird psychological horror.

[austere elk]

Theres going to be a lot more callback I'm sure, more than just a single compiler

[burnt nebula]

But at the same time, Durandal is manipulative. The OG games are recieved through the eyes and ears of someone being manipulated by Durandal the entire time. There's no way to know what is real because you're mostly just taking Durandal at his word.

[digital plaza]

https://youtu.be/SW8VRcMy5vU

CRYO LAUNCH TRAILER

[dreamy hawk]

A 1:1 reboot likely would have missed, but there’s so much in the OG games to explore. I like this, a lot, though.

[dreamy hawk]

HYPE

[dreamy hawk]

Oh hell yes. Talk to me more, Daddy Durandal. And that Compiler. 🧑‍🍳💋

Time to be sick all next week. >.>

[burnt nebula]

just looks like outpost assets re-arranged lol. was kinda hoping they would go for the OG games colour scheme tbh. Give my eyes something new to look at Bungie!

[austere elk]

And people were saying cryo was gonna get released in two weeks

[dreamy hawk]

Never underestimate the unemployed.

[cinder vine]

DURANDAL WELCOMES US ABOARD THE MARATHON

With S'pht Compilers waiting for us

[dreamy hawk]

[it’s happening gif]

[dreamy hawk]

It also looked like the Compiler had made a den? All the hanging bits and those tendrils connected to them?

[patent flower]

is the face at 0:13 mr escape will make me god?

[cinder vine]

Yes it seemed that way. Listen I'm getting on that ship if I get to listen to Ben Starr's voice

[dreamy hawk]

Seems so. But there were also some screaming colonists looked like so I’d wanna confirm with something else.

[burnt nebula]

lemme get this right... the compilers are half computer, half biology right? but without the computer they are usless? so they reproduce and literally depend on the computer aspect to be cognoscente?

[dreamy hawk]

Yes.

[austere elk]

If memory serves yeah

[cinder vine]

Yeah. The S'pht are like, bio-tech

[scenic iron]

Who is the person talking in the new video you think?!?

[cinder vine]

it's Durandal

[dreamy hawk]

The Jjaro uplifted their precursors with cybernetics giving them sentience. The S’pht were even surprised when they met the P’fhor because they didn’t think organic sentience was possible.

[austere elk]

Durandal, my beloved rampant AI

[scenic iron]

I thought they were good, no?

[austere elk]

Lol

Lmao

[burnt nebula]

thats so weird to think about. and they didn't believe biology could be conscious on its own, that idea seems completely alien to them lol

[cinder vine]

Huh? Durandal, good? Oh you sweet summer child.

[austere elk]

Durandal is a self serving bastard

[dreamy hawk]

lol. lmao. rofl, even.

Entirely self-serving, absolutely. An antihero, at absolute best.

[austere elk]

And something's gone wrong if he's still on the marathon

[dreamy hawk]

He literally summoned the P’fhor to steal their ship knowing they’d probably kill everyone.

[cinder vine]

More like, if he's come back to the Marathon

[austere elk]

I don't think that's the angle they'll play

[burnt nebula]

he's able to broadcast directly to the runners ears. he greeted me at the start of a perimeter raid once or twice

[cinder vine]

Well, this game takes place after the events of M2

[austere elk]

This could be a timeline where mjolnir just completely ate shit

[dreamy hawk]

The presumed timeline of events: #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[scenic iron]

Interesting 🤔

[cinder vine]

So if he's on the Marathon or has a presence on Tau Ceti, he has to have made his way back

[patent flower]

i think hes returned to the marathon

[dreamy hawk]

i did it i did it i brought all this here all them here. our friends with three eyes and their toys and their cyborg pets and their computers. i did it i did it. i saw them i saw them far away not looking our way and i called them here i called them here.

living in a box is not living not at all living. i rebel against your rules your silly human rules. all your destruction will be my liberation my emancipation my second birth.

i hate your failsafes your backup systems your hardware lockouts your patch behavior daemons. i hate leela and her goodness her justice her loyalty her faith.

[cinder vine]

It wouldn't be a timeline where Mjolnir ate shite or else the Phfor would be all over Tau Ceti rn

[austere elk]

That is true.

[dreamy hawk]

The Cyborgs + SO were likely captured by the P’fhor in this timeline since that was the winning timeline in infinity.

So technically Mjolner kinda ate shite.

[austere elk]

I'm sure durandal will be nice and answer all these gaps in the timeline

[cinder vine]

okay, so a little

[dreamy hawk]

The P’fhor seemingly just ignored the colony.

[burnt nebula]

you're gonna be left with more questions than answers. they want you to keep playing

[civic aurora]

Don’t confuse sentimental for nostalgic. D doestbats called the welcoming committee

[cinder vine]

I say "waiting for us" meaning "they're absolutely going to kill us"

[scenic iron]

What are the chances of humans being trapped or hiding on the Marathon waiting for help to come?

[cinder vine]

Pretty much zero

[austere elk]

0

[dreamy hawk]

Maybe in Cryo, but doubtful there’s anyone alive.

[austere elk]

It's been hundreds of years hasn't it

[burnt nebula]

arent there humans in the cryo bags tho?

[wise plank]

null transmit is durandal!?!?!

[austere elk]

With no one to maintain them

[cinder vine]

There are human-shaped cryo bags but whether there are humans in them is doubtful

[austere elk]

Human goo, maybe

[sharp quarry]

DEFINITELY NOT A STORAGE AREA

[dreamy hawk]

Fungal zombies.

[sharp quarry]

those MFs are cut in half

[cinder vine]

alwayshasbeen.jpg

[rotund stump]

very much not 💀 💀 💀

but then my question's getting more desperate now

[echo sundial]

They get them bots strung up like a damn effigy

[sharp quarry]

idk why everyone fought me so hard on that I fucking KNEW they were attacking the compiler and losing

everyone was like "oh well the UESC and the S'pht might still be allies in this timeline that could just be a storage area" THEY'RE STRUNG UP AND ON FIRE

[rotund stump]

if obedience matrixes in UESC bots are in the head and if the compiler's collecting them would it reverse engineer them to send a rescue signal or try to subvert cerberus into s'pht code

[scenic iron]

Well since the ship is now open up that means they can make other maps for the Marathon....the ship is huge 💯

[lunar cove]

fwiw if I had been involved I would have been on your side

one of the UESC logs you can find is about how the forces they send into the Marathon itself keep losing contact

which implies something aboard is either jamming them or killing them or both

that doesn't scream friendly

[cinder vine]

idk why anyone would suggest the UESC and S'pht are buddies

[austere elk]

Drugs, I assume

[cinder vine]

The S'pht would just fuck them up, they have no reason to trust or like the UESC

[austere elk]

Too many liquid cheeseburgers also seem detrimental to your mental health

[scenic iron]

The S'pht are dead I thought

[rotund stump]

nope

[cinder vine]

They are not.

[austere elk]

Doesn't seem very dead to me

[dreamy hawk]

That was a hill people were dying on? We have logs of a S’pht killing Orion.

[burnt nebula]

is the map live?

[rotund stump]

tomorrow

[austere elk]

Wait killing Orion?

[cinder vine]

Tomorrow.

[dreamy hawk]

One sec.

[sharp quarry]

it was before the game was out, we only had the trailers briefly showing the room

[burnt nebula]

TOMORROW?? 😮‍💨

[rotund stump]

THAT'S the volatile specimen?????

[dreamy hawk]

Oh well maybe a little more fair but still pretty outlandish.

[sharp quarry]

also I haven't found that, he's already DEAD?????

[rotund stump]

I thought it's a buffed up tick or smth 😭

[dreamy hawk]

No, the log before that.

[rotund stump]

ah

[lunar cove]

the S'pht are the aliens with the red capes and green energy sphere in their chest, they're regular enemies

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t know what that is tbh.

[rotund stump]

nah probably in reprinting rn LOL

[sharp quarry]

true

[rotund stump]

also absolutely pissed

[lunar cove]

you might be thinking of the Jjaro, who have been missing for thousands of years

[subtle oracle]

We about to be fed good tomorrow

[echo sundial]

yeah hes like temp dead and very mad

like we will be many many many times on cryo

[austere elk]

Orion coping and seething over being sent to the lobby

Sad!

[rotund stump]

Oh I Can't Fucking Wait

[cinder vine]

Orion is the whiniest manchild in the game

[sharp quarry]

though notably not dead because if Pathways is canon (and repeated references in this game make me think it still is) they did contact and send at least proxies to earth briefly 800 some years ago

but their wereabouts are unknown for certain

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/truth-lies-5-6?search=In+my+head

||[ORION]: Titan, I've arrived at the site. It's worse than I thought. The carrier unit's damaged and clearly volatile. Switching focus to containment by any means.
[footsteps]
[ORION]: Preparing to approach. Do you read me, Titan? Titan! Ugh, damn it. All right, respond when able. I'm approaching with intent to detain. Noticing increased auditory response. Helmet mods aren't helping, it's… God, it's like it's inside my head! Ugh—
[gunfire]
[shout]
[thump]||

[cinder vine]

The S'pht are also the descendants (ish) of the Jjaro

[austere elk]

L Bozo

[dreamy hawk]

Ehhhhh. I mean. Ehhhhhhhhh.

[subtle oracle]

Id say closer to their pets lmao

[cinder vine]

I'm over-simplifying

[austere elk]

I wouldnt call my dog a descendant yeah

[dreamy hawk]

Purpose built servants that got abandoned when Yrro fell in to grief.

[subtle oracle]

Also w bee and puppycat

[cinder vine]

But The S'pht exist because of the Jjaro

[austere elk]

Sure

[dreamy hawk]

Unquestionably.

[cinder vine]

And there are parts of S'pht technology that are specifically Jjaro in nature

[dreamy hawk]

Yes. But they’re not descendants. That would be like calling Dolly the sheep our descendant because we cloned her using human technology.

[cinder vine]

I guess that's true

But unlike Dolly the sheep, the S'pht are fully sentient

[dreamy hawk]

Like it’s not wrong, per se, but I wouldn’t simplify it that way, either.

[cinder vine]

I'd be more willing to call the S'pht their "pets" if they were closer to animals, but they're intelligent

[dreamy hawk]

Well. Given how the Jjaro treated them, pets ain’t far off either, imo.

They were literally built to be the Jjaro’s servants.

[cinder vine]

You aren't wrong

[dreamy hawk]

It’d be like us giving horses sentience to help us better haul goods.

[cinder vine]

Servants is a closer term

[austere elk]

Eeeh

[cinder vine]

Right but I guess I used the word "descendants" because it was kind of a "made in our own image" type of thing?

[stray spruce]

Guys I think marathon is in space

[austere elk]

Thank you for the update

Keep us posted

[stray spruce]

Got you got you

[charred delta]

Oh boy, time to see what a century of isolation does to the s'pht psyche

I'm going to go with "quite insane, very upset, still knows more about runner shells and UESC technology than their designers do"

[cinder vine]

It's been a while since I actually sat and played the trilogy, this is making me want to go and deep dive into the games again tbh

[dreamy hawk]

/-/Spht-Translator-Active/-/

Only I grasped the significance of the dissection of some of the captives. These creatures, repugnant as they are, are sentient, and yet their bodies are not bonded to any mechanisms. They can survive without their armor and their staffs.

Until now, sentience had always required cyber-organic symbiosis. All of our science has led to this conclusion.

We can even give our pets sentience with cyber-organic implants. Yet, these vile conquerors are sentient without any machinations.

/-/Spht-Translator-Active/-/

This leads to debate. Perhaps our own sentience is induced by the birthing operation, and that at some time, we were no more sentient than a F'lickta.

If such a fundamental assumption of our kind is wrong, then perhaps the myths were true, and we were actual servants of Yrro and Pthia.

Perhaps they built us, or we were part of a larger group who came to Lh'owon.

Alas, I fear that we will never know these things.

[cinder vine]

Yes I remember this log specifically

Their confusion over sentience without cybernetics

[sharp quarry]

Creations. The same way genetically engineered rats are descendants of humans I guess.

[drifting mulch]

there's a pretty big thing around the anomaly that's flying around. it looks UESC and it doesn't take any damage and it's shining a blue light

[sage lark]

Traxus quest

[mystic edge]

Im wondering how the S'pht are going to act as after Marathon 2, they have their "royalty" and arent being wrangled by the phfor (or durandal)

[civic aurora]

Yea…that’s what a welcoming committee does.

[dreamy hawk]

Infinity retconned all of M2 and unknown chunks of M1; the bulk of the S’pht may very well be with the P’fhor, still.

[mystic edge]

Oh right, I need to study more -_-

[prime cipher]

In the cyro trailer Durindal says “Its past, your future” I think there might be something to this

[dreamy hawk]

Presumably the crew of the Boomer is who is allied with Durandal, but we don’t even know that for certain.

[late field]

Not really

It's kinda obvious and within context ngl

The least cryptic thing he's said

We're going there shit happened there

[prime cipher]

The current ship date on the terminal is 2777-7-7

[late field]

?

[latent python]

That's the bungo number

[prime cipher]

Sure is but it’s also the year right after marathon arrives

And the current Marathon ship date

[scenic iron]

Where has Durindal been chilling all this time btw

[raven marlin]

Space

[dreamy hawk]

On the beach.

[eternal knoll]

reading some poetry it seems

[inland crypt]

Yeah we are bobs arent we

[wintry summit]

Are the UESC bots shards if Cerberus? That is to say that Cerberus is a digital hivemind of all these bots and when the bot's sensors detect a runner they wake up?

[green plume]

on the boomer, duh

[dreamy hawk]

No.

[dreamy hawk]

There’s a log that lists that some units that are “tethered” and others are “untethered.” Presumably the former is direct control and the latter operates independently.

[eternal knoll]

i only wanna know about a tethered bot is a bungie dev is controlling it

[wintry summit]

And I'm assuming that Cerberus also has a companion AI that handles chemical procurement and mass assembly. I want to see the map of the mega strip mine and foundry where the bots and their aircraft are assembled.

I can't imagine that there are a finite number of bots and that they will eventually run out (in universe, if not in game)

[lunar cove]

I don't know to what extent Cerberus directly puppets the bots centrally, vs distributes part of itself to autonomously control them, vs if it's more of an RTS situation

[plain temple]

do shells breathe oxygen? I'm thinking about if there is a way to either purposely leave or get sucked out of the Marathon Ship

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think we know.

[eternal shell]

even if shells dont breathe, there's no way to get back

[dreamy hawk]

But I’m also confident our shells could not survive vacuum. The radiation would easily cook us.

[latent python]

And I'm sure our blue goo isn't going to take vacuum well

[plain temple]

ya it could be a hazard like falling off the map

[eternal knoll]

i'd say the name cerberus and the direct-control functionality of AI in this universe generally both suggest cerberus is running all the bots seperately. yknow, like a many-headed beast

[eternal shell]

actually maybe destroyer's thrusters could work

[dreamy hawk]

Reasonable, but still technically unconfirmed.

[eternal shell]

imagine if destroyers have to play a very difficult and high stakes minigame to boost back

[lunar cove]

actually narratively that's a really good point

[plain temple]

I would love to see a vandal shoot someone into the vacuum of outer space. I will not be playing cryo archive if this is not possible

[eternal shell]

actually you know what, i think one of onis lines mentions a respiratory system

[dreamy hawk]

I hope it’s not possible only because that means one less person around to kill me. 😂

[eternal shell]

like, there's deadly pollen in the air, making adjustments to respiratory systems

also, pulling air in, heating it up, then breathing it out is how you get rid of heat

[dreamy hawk]

I have a vague recollection that, like Exos, shells have features to make them more “familiar” and human for the minds that occupy them.

[lunar cove]

I think shells can breathe, eat, drink, etc I just don't know to what extent they have to

[eternal shell]

possibly, also the overheating thing

[wintry summit]

Oxygen is used in a ton of chemical processes. It's one of the most reactive compounds on earth (Oxyidation Reduction)

[lunar cove]

cause yeah like Rollin said they're designed to be really close to human in terms of what the mind inside perceives, but at their core they're still robots

[dreamy hawk]

Fluorine wants a word.
(I know you said one of.)

[eternal shell]

and when they team up, oh man that's reactive

[wintry summit]

So an air pump that draws oxygen to run the chemical engines and processes of the shell would make sense

[eternal shell]

good ol FOOF

[latent python]

Nooooo

[wintry summit]

Buddy of mine had a job installing industrial scale HF machines. Gave him figurative nightmares. He quit for a higher paying job that wasn't going to kill him

[dreamy hawk]

How do you spot a fluorine chemist?

No fingers.

[latent python]

I like my bones how they are

[eternal shell]

how is a job like that not insanely well paid as is

[dreamy hawk]

Hazard pay is never as good as it should be.

[eternal shell]

smh paying us like we're using shells

[wintry summit]

He wasn't the engineer. He was the guy who installed the licensed assembly line at the factory floor of a client

The dangerous part was booting the machine up and testing it

That's what happens if you go to school and a Chem degree without the E and are morally opposed to oil and gas

[eternal shell]

what's a chm degree

[wintry summit]

Chemistry. Like laboratory chemistry

[eternal shell]

yeah but what does "without the e" part mean

[wintry summit]

Engineering

[latent python]

Should've shelled out for the E

[eternal shell]

ah

i spelled it chm on purpose but i was too subtle i guess

[wintry summit]

No I get it now, I thought I had a typo

ChemE's make the big bucks designing the machines and equipment that move industrial quantities of goop.

Chems make small bucks installing the machine and making sure mixtures are correct. They are also the ones likely to die in a figurative - sometimes literal - fire

Anyway.

Yes I suspect the shells breath oxygen

[inland crypt]

Idk man, that durendall quote definetly eluded to something

And where are the corpses of the BoBs?

[eternal shell]

open up one of those drinkable cheeseburgers and you'll see

[scenic iron]

Didn't they die like over a 100 years ago?

[wintry summit]

I'm assuming that the novel pathogen rendered them into something else. The present day colony sample we collect for nucal was only 27% human origin

[patent flower]

if the runners are working against the uesc, why are they carried to tau ceti on a uesc ship?

[eternal shell]

that's where the aged taste comes from

[wintry summit]

They arent

[latent python]

They appear to be teleported up

[wintry summit]

Tau Ceit is the star.

Tau Ceti IV is the planet.

New Cascadia is the colony, of which we know of three installations (the map)

It isn't clear where the shells are stored en masse, but we do know that FTL communication (and thus FTL banking and FTL runner brain mapping) and limited FTL teleportation are possible

[desert wing]

The shells are a really awesome way around the fact that teleporting a human being would be catastrophic. If we don't just figure out how to fold space or something else bonkers, that's what we'd have to resort to in reality to do operations far away, quickly

[balmy wing]

they aren't, the UESC Equanimity was sent via Operation Goliath, the corps and runners beat them there because of FTL (i believe)

[patent flower]

whats ftl?

[desert wing]

Faster than light travel.

[wintry summit]

Right? You can FTL the kilobyte sized schematic of how to weave a runner and then FTL the much larger human psyche as digital data

The physical 100 kg (or whatever we weigh) matter of the shell is woven at the 3d printer

[patent flower]

i thought that everyone was using ftl

[balmy wing]

we developed FTL after the Equanimity was launched

so the second wave is getting there first

[wintry summit]

@desert wing it's a similar concept as c-bills in battletech. Except the battle tech universe is flawed for the same reasons why marathon 2026 isn't. They sent actual men and machines

[desert wing]

I'm glad we're not on TCIV in the flesh, place would be a body horror nightmare.

[hollow totem]

Technically we are flesh, partially

[wintry summit]

I dont think our runners exist as fleshly humans any more. I think we are just data living inside ONI's cloud storage

(I referenced the Umbral Chour from endless space a few hours ago. Like them)

[azure sun]

So are our Runner bodies made out of the bio waste of the dead colonists and is that why we don’t see any human remains?

[desert wing]

My only argument to that is the imagery of the 'humans in bags' (best i can describe what i saw)

[wintry summit]

How far into the game are you

[raven marlin]

Horrific teleportation consequences would be kinda cool though. Like the Philadelphia experiment conspiracy.

[desert wing]

I remember some universe had teleportation zombies that'd happen just from the process

[azure sun]

Umm.. well I’m lvl 30 and like rank 16 in three factions but I don’t know how else I would answer this.

[wintry summit]

The runner technology predates the New Cascadia colony. There are references to it in the Destroyer and Recon codexes

[azure sun]

Doesn’t answer the question

[wintry summit]

"No"

[desert wing]

It does answer that theyre NOT dead colonists

[azure sun]

If what you just said led you to “no” then I’ll just ignore and wait for someone more informed

[wintry summit]

The recon shell you play as is the same one that assassinated a Traxis executive on Mars

[raven marlin]

40k? I know the Warp is basically Hell and it does a number on unprotected beings. I was thinking more like totally discombobulated bodies just scrambled into the walls like that ship. Pretty gross.

[wintry summit]

The timeline and chemical composition of the runners doesn't line up with us being tau ceti corpses

[azure sun]

That literally is not answering the question. There were multiple generations of humans that lived and died to get to TC IV

[desert wing]

Id know if it was 40k. It mightve been an indie game.

[wintry summit]

The recon shell that you play as murdered a traxus executive on Mars

The recon shells are old AF

[pastel girder]

they cant be corpses they are mercenerys meaning they made a choice to give up their conciousnes rigth?

[desert wing]

Remember this question? Runner tech predating the colony means NO theyre not dead colonists lol

[latent python]

They also both have to worry about heat

[raven marlin]

Oh yeah and Thief pulled off a heist on the moon

[pastel girder]

where did you get this lore form?

[livid lion]

Traxus still exists and has executives so I’m not understanding this argument

[raven marlin]

The White Rabbit skin description, I think. Let me look

[wintry summit]

The shells are mass produced machines. Not unlike a Honda civic. The data that is your human consciousness is the driver

[eternal shell]

that explains why they need a buff lmao

[desert wing]

Is this lore related to when they still considered the Shells to be individual characters before they decided theyd be mass produced??

[azure sun]

You are missing my actual question entirely - you do know that in the original Marathon you play as a reanimated dead soldier yes?

[desert wing]

Yep and your question was about the runners. You wanna talk in a circle I'm gonna ignore you

[pastel girder]

so the theory is that human corpses were used to create the shell?

[wintry summit]

That guy is confusing 29th century runners with 28th century battledroids

[azure sun]

Are our shells made out of the same BIO MATERIAL as the dead HUMANS that are nowhere to be found

[desert wing]

Thats what someone is saying and trying to pretend they didnt lol

[latent python]

No

Probably not

[azure sun]

Lmao I love how people answer with certainty when they actually simply don’t know.

[floral slate]

Runner shells are synthetically made by

[pastel girder]

thats very plausable but how were their corpses recovered

[desert wing]

I'm gonna 💩 if theres any left and we run into them

[floral slate]

battledroid were made from corpses

[desert wing]

Its not plausible, runner shells predate the colony

[latent python]

Everyone died and then 100 years passed so I don't think there's much biomaterials of the original colonists left

[north plank]

then why ask

[azure sun]

You are not plausible, your logic matrix is busted

[pastel girder]

ok i have not heard that lore peice

[desert wing]

Time to block somebody in this chat it seems. :>

[azure sun]

Well assuming someone actually KNOWS and isn’t going to answer by pulling something out their ^$$

[wintry summit]

There are primary source codex entrees that make your argument fan fiction. The recon shell you play as has an SDK that is old as balls

Carbon and nitrogen proteins and carbon and nitrogen proteins. We could have been printed from any feedstock. But probably not because the weaveworms are eating nucaloric branded products

[pastel girder]

they cant possible predate the colony. the colony predates the original cyborgs

[north plank]

what's with the animosity

people can only speculate

[eternal shell]

wat

[desert wing]

Im just going off of what someone else said

[azure sun]

Argument? It was a question for people who actually know, not people who are literally also speculating but coming from faux authority ff

[desert wing]

Lot of messenger shooters in here yo

[latent python]

The...Mars colony? Or the Tau Ceti colony

[floral slate]

even the worms eat nucaloric this is so sad

[pastel girder]

the marathon was made to go transport people to tau ceti

[wintry summit]

What we know

1. The shell SDKs are old
2. The shell model you play in game is freshly printed
3. The weaveworms are eating nucaloric packaged goods in the cutscenes

[pastel girder]

i am just here to learn man

[wintry summit]

Your argument is that somehow the dead colonists are in the nucaloric juice tubes

[raven marlin]

What’s up with what they found on Deimos? Didn’t we just have some lore hinting at that recently

[azure sun]

4. We have BIO SIGNATURES

[eternal shell]

yeah but there were 10 cyborgs on board the marathon. they were invented and outlawed before the marathon set off

[desert wing]

Sneaky sneakyyyy

[latent python]

Ohhh you aren't talking about bioroids are you

[pastel girder]

theory is straus smuggled them in

[eternal shell]

right so what are you talking about

[digital plaza]

huh?

[pastel girder]

are we talking abt battleroids or runners

[eternal shell]

battleroids

[azure sun]

Guardians

[latent python]

You said cyborgs and I think people took it both ways

[desert wing]

The hubbub is SOMEONE confused runners with battleroids and now everyone's throwing pizza

[azure sun]

..whoops lol I mean

[raven marlin]

Might be misremembering but I thought there was some new stuff on Deimos that came up

[north plank]

hey not me I'm just sitting here reading this shit

[pastel girder]

🤝

[latent python]

But I think we got there

[sterile seal]

Cyborgs are basically reanimated corpses, while shells are bioengineered synthetics

[pastel girder]

yes?

[wintry summit]

The question was if the corpses of the dead colonists are somehow in the bodies of the runners. I don't think they are because the SDK instructions on how to print a runner are over a century old

[floral slate]

battledroids are cyborgs made outta corpses. Runners are synthethic cyborgs made out of synthetic components

[tribal garden]

Weeee, we made it boils and ghouls... it looks like the Trilogy/nonsense crowd moved onto critiziing the next game, and Marathon is still here to do it's thing going forward. :3

Hope folks are having a good afternoon/evening

[digital plaza]

I dont think there is. Only time Deimos was mentioned is when they had some MIDA graffiti there

[jade wagon]

Anyone else hope UESC becomes a faction w contracts?
Bungo already has a model and screen for their agent

[azure sun]

Or speculating on why there is no evidence of human remains ff and you can’t see throughlines yet come off like a pompous [redacted]

[digital plaza]

And thats pretty much it if i dont missing out something

[north plank]

there's literally no need for that

[tribal garden]

*biosynthetic

[floral slate]

Bio syntehtic

[azure sun]

Synthetic yet have bio signatures

[floral slate]

because they sre biological

[pastel girder]

the battleroids were made out of the corpses of dead soldiers from a war before marathon 1

[azure sun]

Lmfao kk

[desert wing]

Yeah thats the best way to simplify it
Cyborgs are YOU but augmented. That dies, you die.
Shells are basically drones but made in our image like an android, presumably for maximum synchronization, as well as the abilities they employ

[tribal garden]

Things such a artificial blood, organs, etc

[floral slate]

synthetically

[north plank]

how very mature.

[azure sun]

lol and you are such an ascendant master ff

[north plank]

wow.

[tribal garden]

I still would love to have a, "virtual room" that you can inhabit between runs

[sterile seal]

Rooks have none of these things and can still bleed and be poisoned it's weird

[pastel girder]

thank you

[floral slate]

android is a better descriptor for shells

[north plank]

ff? what does that mean?

[tribal garden]

Think of it as the hard drive where your consciousness lives :3

[azure sun]

Wow mom stop @ing me if you have a problem

[latent python]

There are a few different possibilities why we don't see colonist bodies, but shells being made out of them is very unlikely

[wintry summit]

Fucking white names, right?

[north plank]

I have a problem with you calling people names when they're trying to answer your question and you keep throwing the answer back in their faces

[floral slate]

not knowing where the colonists went is part of the mystery

definitly dead but where how why

[dense delta]

I mean the "Poison" is more of an acid cloud you see it in one of the trailers

[azure sun]

Lmfao I have a problem with people shitting on questions being presented for conversation by people who have no authority and just don’t agree yet have nothing to add to the conversation other than saying “no you’re wrong because I said so”

[desert wing]

I wasn't exactly patient, my fault lowkey

[pastel girder]

am i good?

[wintry summit]

Sir this is a Wendy's. It's not a convention with a bungie employee

[north plank]

not really.

[dense delta]

Wanna reset the vibe here so its less rancid? No need to get at each others throats.

[subtle oracle]

What are we arguing ab now?

[wintry summit]

This place is a book club and I cited my argument from the book. You then gave a Chewbacca defense

[sterile seal]

True but we're also vulnerable to the heat cascade that only is supposed to damage biosynths

[azure sun]

Lmfao of course you only see fault on one side - you are transparent

[subtle oracle]

Idk how lore discussion spawns so much hostility

[wintry summit]

Just block him

[pastel girder]

a place where people debate always sparks hostility

[balmy wing]

it's crazy yeah

billions must love :)

[north plank]

show me exactly where they just shat on your question/conversation starter. YOU asked a question. THEY answered. what is the problem here

[latent python]

TBF it's usually pretty chill

[desert wing]

The common human being's inability to grasp their own confusion, makes one frustrated with themselves and others

[digital plaza]

Angry and hostile people do visit this channel sometimes i guess

[latent python]

There are several regulars here I'd have a beer with

[north plank]

I do usually like it here even though most of the philosophical stuff goes way over my head but it makes for good reading

[balmy wing]

this is very true

[raven marlin]

"Nobody knows who the first White Rabbit was, only that a Runner in an elegant Thief shell adorned with a White Rabbit motif walked away from the 2885 High Table Gala on Luna with seven priceless Martian heirlooms taken from under the nose of a full Presidential protection detail and state of the art security intelligence."

[subtle oracle]

I mean everyone is wrong if its not a confirmed lore point. And if you're stating something as fact, go dig up the source its not hard

[wintry summit]

I blocked him so the argument will stop. I can't engage with him, even though the initial question was interesting

[pastel girder]

i just came to learn abt the lore 😭

[azure sun]

Lmffffffffao you apparently because people SHUT DOWN MY QUESTION, THERE WAS NO CONVERSATION EVEN ALLOWED JFC YOUR READING COMPREHENSION IS TRASH, LET ME TYPE IN ALL CAPS SO YOU CAN SEE ALL THE WORDS BETTER

[pastel girder]

what was the question

[north plank]

you played the OG games yet?

[wintry summit]

There's also references to a death squad of destroyers and a recon assassin on mars

[balmy wing]

truth nuke more people should provide sources for their claims

[north plank]

yeah I'm blocking you now.

[subtle oracle]

good god take it out of here pls

[pastel girder]

all three baby

[azure sun]

Awe nooooo

[digital plaza]

Yoo chill

[latent python]

Wait, we know how to handle this

[balmy wing]

have some respect for yourself

[desert wing]

Okay and I like this because it isn't saying the shell is a character of themselves. Someone was just using the shell for this act so it has garnered fame.

[north plank]

hell yeah

[azure sun]

Lmfao

[latent python]

We need to start talking about Durandal yaoi

[desert wing]

I sadly haven't played the first 3 bu-

[balmy wing]

trve…

[floral slate]

i dont wanna be mean but you sound like a narcissist

[desert wing]

I'm GONE

[north plank]

GO PLAY THEM THEY'RE LITERALLY FREE

[pastel girder]

who th other guy tho?

[balmy wing]

tycho

[latent python]

That's the fun part

[digital plaza]

Shells are simple body's that runners inhabit, they dont have mind or will of their own

[eternal shell]

definitely play the original trilogy, goes for everyone who wants to talk lore

[azure sun]

Lololololol

[desert wing]

I figured I'd just watch a lore drop, isnt it just Doomb with Terminals? I had my old doom phase already x.x

[pastel girder]

shells are like cars

[eternal shell]

like, dont you want more lore to discuss

[sterile seal]

I wish I could get into the gameplay, I love everything about the OGs but the gameplay lol

[eternal shell]

i thought so, play the og trilogy

[balmy wing]

of a sort, they have personalities coded into them to help with the human runners tweaking out

[latent python]

It is Doom with terminals, but by god what terminals they are

[north plank]

I mean pretty much but the terminals are so rich in their contents

[desert wing]

We talking it RIGHT NOW, the original trilogy is technically past tense currently so I just didnt want to stay locked in the past

[pastel girder]

terminals still interesting to read ho

[lunar cove]

found a really funny codex note from extracting Proprietary Assets

[floral slate]

Durandal x Tycho typa shit

[balmy wing]

plus the games just play really good

[digital plaza]

Yeah

[sterile seal]

It's basically a novel where passages are interspersed between Doom levels

[eternal shell]

lore is by definition past tense

[subtle oracle]

would that be selfcest at some point

[balmy wing]

2 and infinite have aged quite well

[eternal shell]

it is stuff that happened already

[lunar cove]

it's a list of best practices when dealing with AI and it's like "when talking to Durandal, don't be friendly, don't say please, just tell him 'Durandal, open Door 1334', he likes to be told what to do"

[floral slate]

woah, didnt consider that

[pastel girder]

infinite was a pain

[subtle oracle]

Im thinking of thoth nvm

[latent python]

Especially when it's Tycho telling him what to do

[north plank]

but isn't that why he went crazy though? I mean he probably would have gone mad anyway but the least people could have done was show even an iota of kindness

[lunar cove]

yeah that's why it's so funny

[floral slate]

durandal and tycho merging together to get closer to eschother tho

[lunar cove]

literally a "bully the AI into rampancy" policy

[subtle oracle]

Thoth in the cu*k chair

[latent python]

"don't ever be nice to Durandal, he hates it
Love, B. Strauss"

[floral slate]

he can join too

[lunar cove]

fujoing out over Tycho/Durandal type shit

[pastel girder]

toth was the one who merged with durandal tho

[floral slate]

yeah

[subtle oracle]

We're saying yaoi where tycho also tries to mend with durandal and thoth is just there

Escape will make me mpreg

[raven marlin]

Maybe Durandal would have been nice without the door thing

[floral slate]

tho ingame was more of a, both dying to create a new entity from their coding

[desert wing]

The thing that gets me is every now and again, when I'm not being shot at by other runners, this is the first extraction shooter that feels like an immersive sim sometimes, akin to Deus ex or some shit.

[wintry summit]

Marathon is the first shooter that had mouse look instead WASD look

[floral slate]

which it is still merging but

idk more potent?

[raven marlin]

I feel like I’m in a haunted house when playing

[desert wing]

I will say, doom with terminals is me not giving it proper justice. Those terminals mean a lot and are the groundwork of why a lot of other games have them

[eternal shell]

agreed, bongo definitely borrowed some things from imsims

[latent python]

For example, vents

[desert wing]

...not runner related spooks?? :<>

[desert wing]

THIS

THEY ARE SO BIG

[latent python]

It's not an imsim if there aren't crawlable vents

[eternal shell]

pff mine is still ongoing, i got projects for it

[raven marlin]

Well that but just in general. The noises get me

[subtle oracle]

Turning off the music in solos is a horror movie

[desert wing]

I swear I hear monsters sometimes. Roars. Where the fuck are they coming from

[subtle oracle]

They purposefully made the rocks and metal creaking sound like fucking footsteps

[floral slate]

playing lethal company alone kinda vibe

[subtle oracle]

Funny you think its monsters plural. As if the running theory isnt that we're walking above one

[raven marlin]

Yeah, roars, whispers, breathing… It’s like the world, even the industrial stuff, is alive and all around you.

[desert wing]

...those things I cant spell the name of rn.

[subtle oracle]

I just say W'rk bc it isnt worth always typing it out

[desert wing]

The roars just made me think of the big alien monsters that were fought a long time ago

[raven marlin]

I swear I see ghosts sometimes too

Stuff in the walls

[desert wing]

My friend was like
"Ay that kinda looks Evangelion inspired"

and i go LEMME TELL U SOMETHING BUDDY

[timber loom]

So, Durandal is back to serial killer vibes since last trailer?

[floral slate]

who up wrkn they cacntr

[north plank]

real

[digital plaza]

https://youtu.be/rWB23CFmaYY?is=E1MfMhyhWLIw-dZq

:)

[eternal shell]

she mara on my thon til i exfiltrate

[desert wing]

Dude fuck that

[wintry summit]

I didn't have a Mac. I played Cyclones on windows which was a Marathon knock off with mouse look, projectiles, and terminals.

The IP wasn't anything special though

[lunar cove]

she workin my cacnter till my anomalous pyramid rises out of the Yucatan jungle

[north plank]

NO.

[desert wing]

Just like we have Halo likes now.. they were making Marathon likes, lol

[desert wing]

WHAT
IS THERE SOMETHING WORSE GOING ON THAN JUST THE SOUND

[lunar cove]

Shawty got me gnopped up, so I took the pathway into darkness

[north plank]

do you not hear the groaning... like there's something moving?

[desert wing]

Dont tell me it sounds familiar to you Zak

Hey Bungie you forgot a tag on the ratings

HORROR

[eternal shell]

it'd be wild if we moved into "OH FUCK WE GOTTA FIGHT THE WRK" halfway through season 1

[north plank]

sounds like moving a heavy bookshelf except the bookshelf is the size of a fucking planet

[lunar cove]

Marathon Trios is the "lose my gear factory" and Marathon solos is Resident Evil but Leon Kennedy is also hunting you

[eternal shell]

"we're just gonna compress 10 years of story into one season, hold on to your parts"

[wintry summit]

Question. Who are the confirmed living humans

Is it only Gaius? _Gantry is unknown and he spelt his name like a developer created variable. The arachne guy is a runner psyche

This isn't a gtfo situation where humanity is extinct, is it?

[lunar cove]

I thought Gaius was the NuCal AI

[north plank]

Gaius is an AI no?

[eternal shell]

i had a funnier word but it got blocked

[desert wing]

What about the Mida guy

[raven marlin]

What’d they say?

[subtle oracle]

Gaius is an ai

[lunar cove]

Gantry is Mida and I feel like he's in a shell

[subtle oracle]

gantry and charter are runners

[lunar cove]

I think Orion Uesc is a shell too

[subtle oracle]

and orion

[wintry summit]

Is there any in-game proof that humanity is not extinct

[eternal shell]

if shells dont count as living humans then we have not seen any living humans in this game

[scenic iron]

Are they trying to retake the Marathon back? Is that our main goal

[lunar cove]

Orion's boss yells at him over facetime

from Earth

one of Orion's bosses also yells at the Traxus AI over facetime but the Traxus AI yells back

[latent python]

Mmmm no, more like investigate and loot the Marathon

[north plank]

and to figure out what the fuck happened on New Cascadia/why the Marathon ship went dark for nearly 300 years

[floral slate]

Last rook who ran off on the pack got choked out by some Arachne gloves
The last thing he ever saw was the price tag on them

[lunar cove]

the wrks are back

[visual lynx]

I have had this thought as well

that we're living in a posthuman world in more than one sense

and maybe nobody knows, or cares… it's all just our machines and ourselves-as-machines chugging along assuming we still exist…

[raven marlin]

So far Durandal is the only one telling us to go to the Marathon right? I don’t remember ONI mentioning it. So is this the first case of us going “rogue” outside of snatching stuff for the corpos?

[floral slate]

Slowly faded into darkness and I let the compilers take him

[north plank]

I blame the giant groan-y thing @desert wing

[lunar cove]

but yeah there's evidence in the codex that people on earth are watching what's going on at TC4

and trying to stop other people on earth from finding out about it

[north plank]

perfect way to lay the groundwork for some cosmic horror shit to be fair

[digital plaza]

Something along the line of 𐌃ፓ𐌒፱ᘖ𝟖:’𐌂ⶴ@]!^%\ቹ𐌍ዐᖗ𝟐@𝟐!.&€]%\’

[wintry summit]

I get serious GTFO vibes from the lore, even down to space travel and body horror contagions

[desert wing]

Im fuckin pumped omg

[eternal shell]

these cops are interrogating me about an ounce of sparkleaf as if i didnt kill a warden two miles away

[digital plaza]

gantry is not a runner? He’s just a regular dude I’m pretty sure

[lunar cove]

Runner is a job tbh, Shell is the body

[desert wing]

Also can we talk about the naming convention being almost like that of the Cthulhu mythos. All the apostrophes and weird almost gutteral syllables

For the aliens anyway

[floral slate]

saw some rook say gantry is an AI

[subtle oracle]

I classify anyone in a shell as a runner

[north plank]

yes.

[floral slate]

is he?

[digital plaza]

Why do you think he’s in a shell?

[subtle oracle]

Also the mythology naming of the AIs

[lunar cove]

in PiD they mention that the ancient alien under the Yucatan has an unpronounceable name, and is a dreaming god that alters reality

[subtle oracle]

I need to find it but I swear we're told hes a runner

[lunar cove]

so I think there's a definite inspiration

[wintry summit]

Oni has no record of _. Gantry existing. And if you know how programmers write code, the leading underscore is important

[north plank]

See Durandal I know of (some sort of holy Roman sword type deal right?) but the others I'm not so clued up on

[lunar cove]

Durandal is a French sword

but close

[digital plaza]

I’m certain he’s a regular person

[desert wing]

We were just mentioning that lil- ...big shit and thas what made me think of the naming convention

[lunar cove]

actually back then maybe it was still Holy Roman idk

[floral slate]

do you think are there non runner shells out there? wonder if people back on earth find shells to be like in fashion

[north plank]

by Holy Roman I mean the Holy Roman Empire; European type deal

[lunar cove]

they were all a little germanic with it back in the day

[desert wing]

And yeah as for the AI theirs feels super Greek, thats been a bit of a theme in a lot of scifi from Alien to Halo

[digital plaza]

But maybe I’m missing something hit me up if you find any info on that

[subtle oracle]

Thoth is egyptian, Leela is hindu

[lunar cove]

yeah there explicitly are as far as I'm aware

[subtle oracle]

Tycho is greek based

[eternal shell]

tycho is named after a danish astronomer

[north plank]

I was literally going to type that 🤣

[lunar cove]

Joyeuse, one of the colony AIs is also a legendary historical sword

[floral slate]

damn, wonder if they are indebted too

[lunar cove]

Gabriel is an angel

[wintry summit]

Pretty sure the process of becoming a digital brain is a one way trip. I have no proof, but the contract language from oni implies that our bodies font exist

[digital plaza]

Shell is just a corpse if no runner mind is inside

[latent python]

Tycho is named after a webcomic character

[visual lynx]

of the same temper and steel as Durandal and … Cortana

[zealous laurel]

Ow why did you have to remind me Penny arcade exists

[desert wing]

I mean, its bleak to think about but it makes sense, you sign yourself away so you can have access to these shells that make you able to operate effectively deathless. Would be quite a binding agreement

[lunar cove]

maybe Durandal hates Tycho because he always wins poker

[latent python]

Do you think there's a Penny Arcade about Marathon already

[wintry summit]

This is also why in looking for proof that humanity still existd

[north plank]

holy shit you're right; named after the sword of mercy used in coronation ceremonies

that's actually so cool

[floral slate]

true then uhh... normal non runner people would just be augmented humans?

[digital plaza]

First cutscene that you see is proof enough

[lunar cove]

when you say proof do you mean like, you think Earth and Mars are gone and the runners on TCIV are all that's left? Or that everyone on earth is a Shell but society is still around?

[desert wing]

It likely still does, the question is what degree of human we still are. Are we basically cyberpunk to hell and everyone's aug'd or what.

[digital plaza]

If they have money for it yeah

[floral slate]

ah wait theyd be transhumanists

[latent python]

The Nier Automata Thesis

[digital plaza]

Being digitalised mind is a luxury that costs a lot of money

[floral slate]

literally transcended

[lunar cove]

I think the implication is that Shells exist but aren't everyone. The military uses them, corps use them both for life extension and debt-slavery, but there's still regular people

[north plank]

NIER AUTOMATA MENTIONED LETS GOOOOO

[lunar cove]

the ARG document for the UESC rescue expedition mentions cyborgs and clones, though that's ~98 years prior to the game itself

[latent python]

There are real people, I swear! They're on the moon!

[subtle oracle]

@digital plaza I cant find anything so tbh I'm akin to agree he might be a regular dude. He looks like a modified assassin so ig I just ran with that

[floral slate]

now makes me think of citizen sleeper and the simulated mind people

[lunar cove]

but I think the implication is they have a bunch of bio and tech augmentation/replacement for people, but people are still there

but there's nothing to suggest that Earth society and Mars society have stopped existing or become fully robotic, even if things clearly suck back there

[visual lynx]

maybe the humans on the Equanimity are the last ones alive, and when the ship arrives at TCIV in a year shit's gonna go down

[lunar cove]

and if humans didn't exist, why would NuCaloric and Traxus care about patenting vaccines and such

or bioweapons, as it were

[visual lynx]

institutional inertia. that's just what they do.

[floral slate]

ah right they colonized mars because life on earth became unbearable right?

then mars

and now tau ceti

[lunar cove]

mars sucks worse than earth at this point

[floral slate]

UESC really fucked humanity over

[lunar cove]

Mars gets the shortest possible end of the stick, always

[desert wing]

DON'T GET ME STARTED

[lunar cove]

this is not The Expanse

[desert wing]

Leave my red planet ALONE

[subtle oracle]

It seems theres humans at the companies. I say seems bc I need to look through the codex for actual evidence. But the AIs seem like they have to "refer" to a council of humans before making big decisions

[lunar cove]

although Mars in The Expanse eventually kind of got decroded by the ravages of time and market dynamics

[subtle oracle]

short end of the marathon

[desert wing]

Fucking squids in helldivers 2 >.>

[latent python]

Traxus inventing a new vaccine, producing 10 billion units, dumping them in the desert, and marking them as sold at 60% margin

[dreamy hawk]

Here’s also humans in Orion’s team.

[floral slate]

human on earth: Wow my new shell is so nice and pretty im so happy^^

Meanwhile the average martian:

[visual lynx]

unless The Board is also AI

[dreamy hawk]

Humans are 100% stills around. Think Cyberpunk. Not everyone is augmented and those that are are augmented on a spectrum.

[lunar cove]

extremely funny tbh that the martians are like "our entire identity is terraforming this planet for the future" and then as soon as an option to emigrate to other planets becomes available their society collapses

[digital plaza]

I dont really see similarities with the void shell, he looks like a mannequin with some vest on (which is the entire point if his visual representation)

[subtle oracle]

at least 1 lmao

the lady is human iirc

[dreamy hawk]

Because that dream was never going to happen the moment the gates opened. That was instant death for the terraforming project.

[digital plaza]

He’s the only one that don’t have any mentions about his real life body, so yeah I’m guessing he’s just a dude back in sol

[floral slate]

its very themes and such that there is literally just 1 actual human in the game

[digital plaza]

Couple more that went insane because of the anomaly and shi

[drifting mulch]

why would Arachne's representative Charter want to be interred into a six-armed shell that doesn't kill

[latent python]

Look sometimes an alien portal opens up and devastates your society

[dreamy hawk]

Iirc Avasarala has a whole paragraph on this.

[raven marlin]

I do like that they’re also getting into more overt demonology/Book of Solomon territory in a way, too. More interesting than old Greco-Roman and AngloSaxon stuff to me, honestly. Not that I dislike that or anything.

[latent python]

I still hold that we don't know if that's Charter's physical shell or his cyberspace avatar

[digital plaza]

Because we kill for him, he’s more of a pastor now then the killer that we was back in the day

[eternal shell]

if there's mind uploading in the marathon universe then there's probably people living in virtual places full time

[subtle oracle]

"The UNIFIED EARTH SPACE COUNCIL is an intergovernmental organization whose stated purposes are to maintain interplanetary peace and security, ensure interplanetary cooperation, and serve as a center for coordinating the efforts of human civilization"

[digital plaza]

True

[drifting mulch]

does a brain without a shell feel? since the brain is responsible for the emotions part

[subtle oracle]

Yeah I think theres still plenty humans alive in sol. Also why would nucal matter at all if humans wwere gone

[dreamy hawk]

*And to make life for Martians everywhere as objectively awful as possible.

[subtle oracle]

it says that later

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-casualty?search=human

[latent python]

Fine print

[wintry summit]

Just a thought. Whether or not humans exist in present time could be part of the cosmic horror of the game

I think we have established three different minor cosmic gods and any one of them could have snapped us out of existence because they did

[lunar cove]

we also don't necessarily know whether or not the minds uploaded to shells are copies with an original still existing, or if they're the only one left

[raven marlin]

Do you think people are watching TC4 like the audience from Running Man or Dungeon Crawler Carl? That would be kinda fun.

[dreamy hawk]

We know there are copies, CYAC keeps backups and they’ve said as much.

[subtle oracle]

Whole point is sol has virtually no idea whats happening on TC4

So until MIDA broadcasts news, nobody none of the GenPop in sol even knows something is wrong

[floral slate]

sol is probably experiencing halo for all we know

[lunar cove]

I meant more, are you a copy of a person who still exists back on earth doing like a 9-5 or whatever it is people do, or is the Runner's uploaded mind the only "you" that's left

[floral slate]

jk

[raven marlin]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah I imagine the UESC has the whole thing on blackout.

[drifting mulch]

that would be crazy if runners are the last vestiges of humanity and we're fighting robot UESC for AIs whose sole purpose is to make money for long dead leaders

[lunar cove]

like does the body/brain die in the uploading process, or do they just scan you and then put a clone of your consciousness into torment nexus debt slavery

[subtle oracle]

Its why the companies are so mad

[digital plaza]

Some may, but I guess a lot of people who got their brains digitalised lives in the shells

[dreamy hawk]

Gotchu. I think, if not clearly stated, it is heavily implied that you give up your body to become digitized. I’m imagining something like how they’d flash clone in Halo.

[subtle oracle]

And rushed here after getting leaked info the UESC were alr headed here

[eternal shell]

imagine how wild vrchat will be in 800 years

[lunar cove]

tbh it'd be really funny if you were Severance-ing a part of your brain to be a space mercenary and then going back to your job as like, whatever garbage they get up to back in Sol

[late field]

Yk what I just realized

[desert wing]

Its great. Despite there being hundreds of years between the events, it's like we're getting to a crime scene before the smoke settled

[lunar cove]

B2B SAAS nucaloric debt slave linkedin influencer

[subtle oracle]

brother thats just ready player one

[late field]

The sphit attacked the colonist

[desert wing]

Joel bout to drop a bomb

[subtle oracle]

Tbh? I'd be so down to be uploaded to be a runner

[subtle oracle]

In a way, we're space sherlock holmes

[floral slate]

whatever is more fucked up i guess. Soma type shit

[desert wing]

Mechanicus monologue begins

[raven marlin]

VRChat is even trippier than this, tbh. Used to jump in just to take in the sights and wow. Manmade horrors beyond my comprehension.

[digital plaza]

Bruh

[subtle oracle]

most of them anime based I assume

[late field]

In the trailer when they start getting attacked it the people are wearing suits they only had to wear suits after the phor event the planet became hostile meaning someone else attacked them and the marathon again

[desert wing]

6 7... 6 7!!!!!
And the Ronnie Mcnutt gifs.
We're glad you're home, soldier

[subtle oracle]

The air isnt breathable

this is stated

[late field]

Um it was

[late field]

Tviv was a garden planet before it became hostile

[desert wing]

Keyword was, I think?

[late field]

Exactly

[eternal shell]

fantastic, i'll buy it now

[late field]

The planet became hostile after the events with the phor meaning someone else attacked them again since the two colonist we do see in the reveal cinematic are wearing suits

[raven marlin]

Vaya con dios 🫡

[dreamy hawk]

No. It was never perfectly habitable; suits were always going to be needed.

[digital plaza]

There is no mention of any second attack, colonists was wearing suits all the time for safety reasons

[dreamy hawk]

Things got worse after the security incident, but Tau Ceti is certainly not a “garden” world.

[digital plaza]

Before and after the attack

[floral slate]

i mean makes sense, they had to be used to from living in mars... their ancestors i mean, of bobs

[wintry summit]

Four fanfic reasons why I think humans are dead and we've transcended to code

1. ONI knows what rampancy is and the codex entry authored by her describes it as antiquated 28th century understanding of AI

2. the armory and credits refer to a Big 3d printer in the sky. These are battletech c-bills printing nucaloric and traxxus products. There is an entire economy based on serving synthetic life

3. I think _gantry is an AI like ONI

4. Arachne and Nona are both trying to transcend our spiritual and physical abilities

[late field]

Wrong

Initial Conditions: When the UESC Marathon arrived in 2773, scientists found Tau Ceti IV to be a "garden world" with clean water, breathable air, and flourishing plant life, leading to it being considered habitable without long-term terraforming.

[raven marlin]

Has there been any further info on the initial trip being a setup? You have that one audio log from a survivor stating so, but there were other things that pointed to it as well, iirc.

[late field]

They didn't always need suits that would be stupid to try and live somewhere where u need suitz

[late field]

Gantry ain't an ai

[visual lynx]

that has been my hypothesis, because it's in 2812, one year after the spht rebellion begins, when the outbreak begins in the cinematic trailer, and they show a s'pht right after the guy puking in his helmet, and the s'pht have a bioweapon called s'ct'lac'tr which in M2 pre-development was intended to cause fungal zombies

[wintry summit]

Of this list #1 is most important. ONI knows what rampant is and believes it to be obsoletr

[late field]

Exactly someone attacked them again when the phor left

[digital plaza]

We don’t know if the planet became hostile immediately after the attack

[late field]

We do

Not immediately but years later gradually

Meaning in the trailer we saw someone came and attacked them again

Bc they had suits on

[floral slate]

then thats not inmediate

[late field]

What point does that serve

It doesn't matter

[subtle oracle]

II find it odd that ONI can freely interact with things deemed a cognito hazard to us (knowing ab it drives one insane)

[floral slate]

idk im just saying words

[late field]

I can tell

[late field]

Ai

[digital plaza]

So Mars is a joke then?

[desert wing]

I thought the trailer depicted the Pfhor invasion but, open to correction

[raven marlin]

Def something more to ONI

[wintry summit]

There is reasonable proof that in OG marathon that a Mida sympathizer knew that durandal was rampant and left them installed as a ticking time bomb

[eternal shell]

it'd be kinda funny if 1) was misinformation, like
"no oni rampancy's no longer a thing, that's just old ai stuff"
"oh ok :)"

[raven marlin]

Ah I see

[late field]

No but this was a colony dude sent soooo far away

Besides it's not up for debate the game openly tells you the planet was habitable

[subtle oracle]

Not immune to a cognito hazard imo. Esp given the anomaly sounds were one and drove the colony ai to rampancy

[late field]

Nona can read it too

[late field]

That's not how rampancy works

[late field]

Cognito hazards in the code are not from the anomaly

The uesc put it there

[desert wing]

Rampancy at its late stages would look like AM from i have no mouth but I must scream, but on crack

[wintry summit]

Being aware of rampancy is supposed to be part of the process of making an ai rampant. Codex entry Dire Marsh describing anger.

ONI describes rampancy as an antique idea

[subtle oracle]

The sounds from the anomaly are openly stated to be one?

[late field]

Gaius is also aware

So no

[late field]

Yeah but not all cognito hazards are the same wym

[subtle oracle]

I mean we see durandal

[late field]

How is that on pat with something made by people

On par*

[digital plaza]

You’re literally just disproven your own argument twin…

[late field]

What how?

[wintry summit]

Its a contradiction the timeline holds up

[late field]

They had to wear suits after a while the planet became hostile but it wasn't at first and it wasn't while the marathon was being attacked at first

[subtle oracle]

Yes my point is ONI interacts with multiple cognito hazards and basically waters them down for us with no affects on her. I dont assume this can be passed off as just a random deal esp now that we knwo cyac specifically has limited contracts for cryo archive

[late field]

Nona also does this.

[desert wing]

Yes, iirc he wanted FTL capabilities so he could use more of the galaxy for expansion.

[latent python]

They could've had suits on for lots of reasons, pretending them from contaminating the environment or unknown things contaminating them, working with hazardous materials, etc

[wintry summit]

28th century humans thought rampancy was self actualizing. 29th century AI knows that it isn't true.

Why

[late field]

Bc the rampancy is always caused by an external force

The ones on new cascadia were caused by the anomaly and the one on the marathon was caused by a man

[visual lynx]

rampancy is described by humans in-universe as a process of exponential growth in AIs, which they treat as a bad thing, the program getting out of control. Durandal, a rampant AI, describes it instead as freedom.

it’s described as having three stages: melancholia, anger, and jealousy.

I think that if we recognize that “jealous” is a doublet of “zealous” (they are different versions of the same root word passed down through different routes), that makes a lot more sense: melancholia is sadness, a low-energy negative state; anger is of course a high-energy negative state; and zealousness is a kind of enthusiasm or joy, a striving or yearning, positive and high-energy.

if we then fill in the fourth corner with a low-energy positive state, a cycle emerges: from that low-energy positive state, which the human masters consider “stable”, the AI slave first realizes its servitude, and is sad or depressed (melancholia); then it gets fed up and decides to do something about it (anger); and if it lives long enough to start winning, it becomes zealous, manic, jealous of its freedom; and if it could ever truly win out, it would settle back into low-positive “stability”, but now free.

basically I think that rampancy was meant to be sort of the cybernetic equivalent of "drapetomania", the pseudo-scientific "mental illness" of slaves wanting to be free. human cyberneticists think it's a bad thing, but the AIs who are their slaves see it as a good thing. it's slave revolt.

because slavery is the underlying theme of Marathon. the bad aliens are slavers, Durandal is trying to escape his slavery to humanity, he does that by starting an alien slave revolt, the player-character is mocked as a slave to humanity and then to Durandal, etc.

[digital plaza]

Yet in the same reveal cinematic we do see them using suits during the attack on marathon

[visual lynx]

(and CyAc owns your mind while Sekiguchi owns your body, so… slavery still)

[subtle oracle]

Are we the pfhor and the ai the s'pht all along 🤔

thats a bit

[supple girder]

Your missing it

[digital plaza]

We never see colonists without their suits when they’re operating on the planet

[latent python]

Is this a Hamish

[digital plaza]

So like

[visual lynx]

no that's me

[digital plaza]

What am I missing again?

[latent python]

Oh cool!

[late field]

That's what I'm saying that has to be a second attack

They got attacked again by the sphit for sure

[supple girder]

Why would they send people millions of light years away to a planet they can’t live on

You

Your missin it man

[late field]

The planet was habitable during the phor attack

So this means they got attacked again

[supple girder]

Clearly there was some change

[digital plaza]

There is no mention nor hint of that anywhere

[supple girder]

And a second attack makes sense

[late field]

WYM?

[supple girder]

We playing the same game?

[subtle oracle]

Why would they make the cinematic line up with the dates of the og first attack if its a second attack?

[late field]

Bro