📚marathon-lore-discussion

[sage lark]

Nona says as much

[echo sundial]

and also you extract through a teleporter with bio stuff on you

so clearly it can teleport at least a little bit of biological stuff

[sage lark]

to orbit

[tranquil basin]

But cyac still has a huge amount of hardware in the system

Plus teleporting requires a receiver

Most likely

[echo sundial]

I do think it is possible that an improved propulsion system was made in between the launch and arrival of the marathon, that was sent some time after the marathon left, but way before the events of the game, that made a bunch of factories and stuff in tau ceti

printing runner shells and UESC bots etc

[sage lark]

we have to be in system and so does CyAc because we dont establish FTL communications with earth until the first couple missions

[echo sundial]

Well maybe not CyAc, but at least ONI acting on behalf of CyAc.

[sage lark]

yes ONI

[sage lark]

Marathon took 300 years, Equanimity around 97-98

[timber loom]

Teleports work with organic matter, but the process probably breaks down when the system becomes more complex than just a bunch of cells. You probably can teleport a piece of beef, but not a cow, at least so it stays cow

[sage lark]

its not so far fetched in those 100 years theres been a breakthrough

[tranquil basin]

Yeah there’s really no other way

[sage lark]

especially since smaller ships probably are faster

[echo sundial]

Suffice to say it seems to me that the UESC is basically prevented from sending a shitload of giant warships into orbit around Tau Ceti, and most of the bots are manufactured on site with data from mars factories or whatever.

[tranquil basin]

But when ftl comms and stuff was blocked, the first few missions you could still infil and exfil

[echo sundial]

I assumed this was because of FTL restrictions

[tranquil basin]

Meaning there has to be a hub in tau ceti

For rubber production

[tranquil basin]

Runner

[echo sundial]

Yes, I think that the runner facilities were probably on like, the second wave of stuff shot at Tau Ceti after the marathon.

like the equanimity as simon described

so sublight but got there faster

or at least earlier in the timeline

To be frank its not really explained well in the game and all of it is very unclear

[timber loom]

I mean, everything runs on CyAc. But from the gist of it, only CyAc and prob SekGen are kinda care that you are in the system. Other corps just ready to utilize you, but never awaited you there to begin with, so it gives more weight to private runners arriving to the system thing

[echo sundial]

well according to some codex's I found on perimeter sekgen was def on the marathon upon arrival

like their manufacturing tech and stuff

thats why you can find weaveworm pods

[sage lark]

most of the corpos had a stake in the original mission

[timber loom]

I bet all of them, though CyAc didn't yet came into play

[sage lark]

also the weaveworms they used are different:

WEAVEworm Technological Timeline
2198 EARTHworm; accelerating processing of refuse.
2212 WAXworm; inspection + maintenance of hazardous sites.
2235 SEAworm; inspection + maintenance of deepwater sites.

• SPACEworm; inspection + maintenance of exoatmospheric sites.
  2433 DEEPworm; inspection and maintenance of deepwater sites.
• WARPworm; inspection + maintenance of exoatmospheric sites.
  2687 SILKworm s1; single-path printing of pre-structured
  prosthetics.
  2690 SILKworm s1v2; dual-path printing of pre-structured
  prosthetics.
  2696 SILKworm s1v3; multi-function printing of pre-structured
  prosthetics.
  2708 SILKworm s2; multi-stage printing of full-body prosthetics.
  2797 SILKworm s3; integrated personal biomarker printing of full-
  body prosthetics.
  2801 SILKworm s3v2; plus-factored owner-paired DNA weave linkage.
  2803 SILKworm s3v3; synthetic bone weave replication.
  2805-07 SILKworm s3v4-v9; [rapid SILKworm technology advancement]
  2809 WEAVEworm Phylum; all SILKworm series and subtypes brought
  under newly established WEAVEworm product category.
  2843 WEAVEworm p1; reconstructive surgery on cybernetic bodies.
  2848 WEAVEworm p2; multi-stage printing of biomata [shells].
  2872 WEAVEworm p3; omni-wave printing of biomata [shells].
  2884 WEAVEworm p4; weave repair integration in biomata [shells]

[echo sundial]

Yes, I agree, which I think is a reasonable justification for them having some active assets in the region that they can communicate with

[timber loom]

For a Space Microsoft they seem to be pretty calm

[opaque mural]

when you extract your shell "body" returns back to the ship right

[echo sundial]

we don't know

it could literally just be sending you into a digital pocket dimension lol

[sage lark]

Shells didnt start being a thing until 2848

so they dont really have the same tech on the marathon

[tranquil basin]

There was no other stuff sent to tau ceti besides the equanimity

And the equanimity hasn’t even arrived

[timber loom]

No, ONI mentions that repairing your biomata is preferable to creating a new one

[echo sundial]

I didn't say that it did just giving an example of a system here

[tranquil basin]

And the corps in the arg docs said specifically they only had interest in sending stuff to tau ceti as of 2888

[timber loom]

The consciousness might be extracted from it between runs, but overall there is a ship somewhere

[tranquil basin]

So if the UESC sent nothing, and the corps definitely didn’t send anything to tau ceti until then, and the UESC doesn’t produce shells until sekiguchi gets involved, there’s just no way they don’t have ftl travel because they have to send that infrastructure

[echo sundial]

okay so its not like a digital atomization thing its just legit teleportation

[tranquil basin]

DCON is matter deconstruction, unsure if all the other stuff works the same

It could be though, that’s what pattern buffers were supposed to do

Save and reconstruct matter based on pattern

[echo sundial]

okay so the dcon is the digital atomization thing but the extract is not even though they look the same from the beam

[opaque mural]

having every runner on the same ship does not sound like a good idea lol

[tranquil basin]

They could be

But if it was deatomization, then that would have to be ftl because they’re sending matter

[echo sundial]

I mean FTL does exist in the marathon universe it has since the first game

dont deny that

[tranquil basin]

I know

[timber loom]

Yeah, they like are in a cinematic, but I would guess they are done with that idea, otherwise it is kinda obvious to have some sort of hub or inter-runner interaction

[tranquil basin]

But there’s just 0 other way of explaining the current timeline if they do not currently have ftl travel

[timber loom]

Though we team-up with someone somehow

[echo sundial]

I sort of agree and sort of don't, idk. I think you have strong arguments though.

im willing to agree because I think your position is stronger than mine

[opaque mural]

wait does the UESC have their own ship in the tau ceti system

[echo sundial]

even though I am skeptical lol

[tranquil basin]

Presumably yes

Or many ships

Bc the robots were not on the equanimity manifest

[echo sundial]

I guess? I kinda thought they just repurposed existing factories on Tau Ceti IV to manufacture bots

[tranquil basin]

Or at least this many

[echo sundial]

if they were freshly minted it would explain how damn shiny they are and why there are no human UESC marines

[tranquil basin]

And they have a bunch of dropships and those huge square things that do the lockdown

[opaque mural]

it doesnt seem like there would be infastructure like that already built on tau ceti tho

[timber loom]

With all this ship stuff, why UESC just don't shoot up either runners in Tau Ceti, or prevent them from leaving Sol?

[echo sundial]

hence the use of the word repurpose here

[opaque mural]

if there is a ship for runners why wouldnt they just shoot that ship lol

[echo sundial]

its possible they got some smaller system to build a bigger system and so on

[tranquil basin]

They did have a lot of stuff but probably not enough to manufacture all these bots, definitely not in this number

[timber loom]

If it was a big corpo endeavor I would get why

[echo sundial]

Yeah im pretty sure the digital pocket dimension thing is kind of what happens at extract rn

[tranquil basin]

What do you mean

[echo sundial]

the DCON does that and it has the same look as the exract

I think we basically get our matter uploaded to the internet or whatever and then when we deploy its put back together

[timber loom]

That I doesn't agree with. Like. If we did not extracted, where our new biomata printed then?

It cannot be just constructed out of thin air

[echo sundial]

its not constructed out of thin air the matter is all there in the data

this is not physically possible but neither is ftl or any other sci-fi tomfoolery so it checks out to me

[opaque mural]

ok wait the current UESC bots werent there during the colony days right

[echo sundial]

Nah

they're new

they have a glistening sheen of armor too, unlike a lot of the buildings and structures

[timber loom]

Runners need physical space in some form. Why UESC just doesn't hunt our ship of operation, or never allow it to leave Sol to begin with? I would only bet if there was a big Corpo label on them, probably Traxus+NuCal+CyAc one, but for now I do not think this is the case

[tranquil basin]

It could be illegal to destroy it, because the UESC said tau ceti IV is their jurisdiction, not necessarily their orbit

Also we know from the codex that the UESC has their hands tied when it comes to kicking the corps out

[echo sundial]

I think they would be very angry if they saw you messing around near the marathon, but for the most part I agree

[tranquil basin]

Because corps like Traxus have fat wads of cash they’re handing the UESC

[echo sundial]

I guess I just think the whole vast array of spaceships and shit is kinda dumb but whatever its not the end of the world

[tranquil basin]

Yeah they probably are, but I assume if they shot down a ship with thousands or more runners on it, that’d cause a pretty significant outcry in Sol

[subtle oracle]

Would be really awkward for me if Traxus ends up being antagonistic as the story progresses

[tranquil basin]

So even if they did have legal jurisdiction, might be a pr problem

[tranquil basin]

👀

[echo sundial]

Traxus is fr the fuck you I hate you faction here's 3 pennies and a coke for 60 hours of hard labor

so like maybe I could see it

LMAO

[opaque mural]

ngl I've always thought that the areas the runners go to after being printed from the cinematic was not physically real

[timber loom]

They also kinda blind to what is happening in TCIV. Like "is this an alien bio weapon? Can we sell it?"

[echo sundial]

I was kinda under the interpretation that our vault is basically a hard-drive with all of the atomic data of the matter we found in raid or whatever

[subtle oracle]

Yeah mining and oil companies arent usually "good" guys. being slightly more favorable than a militaristic faction but still not great

[tranquil basin]

That’s sigma male thinking

[echo sundial]

Traxus is very straightforward with their goals and intentions and the common man is not a part of that picture at all

[opaque mural]

especially with the ending shot looking like a row of servers running

[echo sundial]

more power to them man I fucking love an evil megacorp in my sci-fi setting

classic

[echo sundial]

well I mean look at the main menu screen, its like, literally a digital pocket dimension!!!

[south fog]

So is the guy in Cryo archive the soldier from the first game or…. I’m kinda lost somebody fill me in

[echo sundial]

Durandal is definitely going to be in Cryo archive

[feral tapir]

Traxxus - Military industrial complex
NuCaloric - We want to own all the food... That you need to survive.
CyberAcme - Synergy.
Sekiguchi - Mama Nona loves you. Never doubt the worm.

[echo sundial]

maybe some phfor

we don't know yet

[timber loom]

Nah, not that blind. More like blind to the implications of having alien bioweapon on tciv thing. No one seems to care about people there, that is out of question

[echo sundial]

Probably a compiler based on the art from the game

[tranquil basin]

Me too

[opaque mural]

wait the corpos must have a ship in the system

[south fog]

I thought durandal ascended beyond time and space at the end of of infinity

[opaque mural]

because how else are exfils placed on the map

[echo sundial]

its weird we don't know

[south fog]

Wild, also fascinating

[echo sundial]

he's def on the marathon or like watching us from somewhere in Tau Ceti

this is confirmed by the arg

[tranquil basin]

Yeah we know there has to be compiler(s), there are challenges in the codex now for killing one and for getting an item from it

[echo sundial]

he also gives you praise for beating a compiler on cryo archive

so he's definitely here and watching us

idk if we will speak with him directly in raid

but we might

[south fog]

How certain are we that we’re not just coming across echoes of his presence

[tranquil basin]

Some people say that but I disagree. Considering he merged with Thoth who was jjaro, I think he was just able to hop timelines like the SO

[echo sundial]

well that or maybe the merger is just retconned

[tranquil basin]

But once the timelines collapse into timeline 7 then he’s like regular

[echo sundial]

wouldn't be the first thing either

[timber loom]

It is a consciousness liminal thing, no? There is no walking where we are between runs, but I guess like in cinematic we have this pre-run testing and stuff and equip or shit etc

[subtle oracle]

I almost wonder how much pull Vulcan has. Bc it seems Traxus starts as "yeah get us info on the anomaly so we can find something to make money from" to "the UESC denied us a partnership, now theyre hiding something big, get down there and ruin their day and give the good news to us". Like Traxus and NuCal's prioirities seem to shift as the contracts progress

[tranquil basin]

Maybe, though that would destabilize a ton of lore. I hope not

[echo sundial]

like half of the og marathon stuff is already kind of retconned unless you start doing multiverse stuff

which isn't a bad explanation but like Im pretty sure its just retcons

[south fog]

I admittedly have not been very engaged in the arg what has durandal been saying

[tranquil basin]

In theory. I still think there’d be room for runners to live in their shells in orbit at least in some capacity. It would be valuable data for sekiguchi and cyac, and could help with the sanity of the runners

[subtle oracle]

Isnt there a "kill [REDACTED]" in the codex? the same codex that openly says compiler?

[echo sundial]

basically he thinks you're stupid and dumb and that you shouldn't be on tau ceti but you're invited to the marathon because he thinks it will be funny

[tranquil basin]

I think there’s both redacted and compiler

[digital plaza]

@subtle oracle @sage lark @dreamy hawk W'RKNCACNTER ON OUTPOST? (sorry for the first couple of seconds xd)
https://youtu.be/rWB23CFmaYY

[echo sundial]

yeah basically confirmed phfor I think, at least in the form of a compiler

[digital plaza]

Did anyone else heard something like this? I was so scared lol

[tranquil basin]

There is an item that’s a part of a compiler’s nervous system

[subtle oracle]

yeah my point is that theres a new enemy we havent been showj

[tranquil basin]

Oh good point. Maybe, that would be cool

[south fog]

Do we think the alien race(dunno how to spell it) is on marathon or maybe coming to tciv

[sage lark]

😨

[echo sundial]

the pfhor or the jjaro?

the phfor are already here

[sage lark]

the first 10 seconds are hilarious

[south fog]

Pfor

[tranquil basin]

We know compilers (spht) are

[sage lark]

the Spht are

[subtle oracle]

Dude theres sounds on all 3 maps that make zero sense to be anything but the planet

[tranquil basin]

The cybernetic slaves of the pfhor

[echo sundial]

the compilers are not the spht though they're like, phfor toys made out of the spht

[subtle oracle]

The weird deep bellow clicking sound is def something biological and big

[south fog]

Are they still slaves after they were defeated?

[sage lark]

they are called the Spht Compilers

[digital plaza]

Damn

[sage lark]

idk why we are arguing semantics

[digital plaza]

First time hearing this

[tranquil basin]

Though @subtle oracle brought up a great point, the codex has a Kill [REDACTED] thing as well as other things about killing compilers. Might imply there’s more than compilers

[timber loom]

I mean, knowing Bungie there is definitely more than a compiler. Also, at least from what I get, our runs are kinda real and so we cannot, I guess, kill THE Compiler on cryo, because there will be no more compiler to kill and there will be

[echo sundial]

arguing semantics because I think it is vaguely important that there are spht who aren't fuck you kill you machines

though I am sorry I apologize

[subtle oracle]

by planet i mean like w'rk. Oh its my first time hearing it too. Im saying the fact big weird sounds like this happen on all the maps points to it being whatever is making the anomaly

[tranquil basin]

The only spht that aren’t in this compiler form would be the spht kr. I’m pretty sure every other spht is in compiler form now

[echo sundial]

this is correct

[digital plaza]

Yeah definitely

[tranquil basin]

I assume there’s a few compilers at least

[timber loom]

Yeah, bungie like to subvert expectations by teasing one boss and then giving a raid boss that wasn't in the lore 15 minutes ago

[tranquil basin]

But I don’t really know what other enemy it would be

[sage lark]

fungus amongus zombies

[tranquil basin]

Pfhor probably wouldn’t be present without an armada

[subtle oracle]

You know the sound on perimeter im talkinf about where its like big cry click click click

[tranquil basin]

Probably this

[digital plaza]

Oooh yeah yeah, but its much more common than this one

[tranquil basin]

I don’t think there’s any pfhor stragglers from the marathon event considering it’s been 100y

[timber loom]

Mjolnir-fungus merge?

[tranquil basin]

And it’s definitely not a jjaro bc there’s no killing one of them

[subtle oracle]

Oh absolutely I just think theyre linked somehow. something big and weird is under our feet

I wanna know what the huge rings south of Darsh are

[echo sundial]

I think the either the Worcestershire or the Phfor bio-engineered the fungus to go full annihilation/last-of-us mode to kill all the humans

could be some other thing though

[timber loom]

But there is S'pht people hanging around, though, so why it cannot be pfhor also?

[echo sundial]

I'm thinking fungus zombies are gonna be there though cuz you see weird fungal shit in the cryo trailers

[digital plaza]

Maybe its more common because perimeter is sucking geological data or something? Kuzmin logs support this i think

[echo sundial]

I said this earlier and was being annoying about it but the spht compilers are the phfor under a technicality

[tranquil basin]

Well Durandal could have brought them. Also the spht are machine, I figure they would have longer lifespans than purely organic beings. Also, I don’t think these are compilers who were stragglers bc they searched the whole marathon up and down. Like maybe? But I doubt it

Spht compilers are pfhor in the sense of the pfhor being an empire like the covenant

[echo sundial]

^

yes I agree

[subtle oracle]

That would make sense. Outpost is just a base but you can see they actovely terraformed a large area for perimeter

[tranquil basin]

But the main species of the pfhor, the pfhor, are the tall lanky dudes

[subtle oracle]

and the data wall doesnt stop

[tranquil basin]

Ain’t no data wall like a perimeter data wall cuz a perimeter data wall don’t stop

[subtle oracle]

The traditional "Pfhor" are kinda like bug dudes and the "S'pht" Pfhor are the compilers

[echo sundial]

im pretty sure we basically get atomically deconstructed and put into our own little digital world

[digital plaza]

Yeah, we got strange shit in the skyboxes too. If you look around outpost its looks like another planet entirely, so desolate and empty, with some weird pillars far away

[echo sundial]

and this matter is reassembled from the data given by the previous extract or whatever

when you deploy

[sage lark]

hooooly what if Durandal teleported Lhowon to Tau Ceti

or atleast the Spht Kr moon

[dusk siren]

we getting close?

[subtle oracle]

In Darsh specifically theres also the weird colorful like waves around the moon/planet behind the Marathon (if its always the same place in the skybox)

[echo sundial]

nah its gonna be a few days

[timber loom]

As I said, it breaks when we die. If we can be just printed like Star Trek replicator, why need worms, and ships and etc

[digital plaza]

Yeah, super strange and intresting

[tranquil basin]

Darsh

[echo sundial]

because it doesn't build it from scratch it just assembles and reassembles

[tranquil basin]

Added to my vocabulary

[dusk siren]

damn, was hoping the exponential curve was starting to pump

[subtle oracle]

For cryo? Maybe???? we have a lead thatll end sooner but its likely to take longer

for the full unlock

[subtle oracle]

Saw dire marsh called that once and it works

[echo sundial]

We'll see what happens with milo's visit to bungie some stuff might happen there

but like lmao

customs

[sage lark]

Guys are we dropping meter or post

[random condor]

an entire planet? :o I‘m sure we‘ll go to Lhowon somehow at some point in the future tho

[sage lark]

in Infinity a whole moon gets teleported to Lhowon

with the Spht kr

[echo sundial]

the UESC (United states government) is fully dysfunctional atm so unfortunately who knows where that's going

[timber loom]

The mem thing is going to help us

[random condor]

holy i gotta finally read up infinity lore

[sage lark]

but there is no evidence for it rn so just speculation based on what DODO and Vulcan are saying

[dusk siren]

yeah sweet, will just keep at the grind, stocking sets n credits for cryo

[echo sundial]

infinitity is the one og marathon game I didn't play and its also the craziest one

in terms of lore implications

[tranquil basin]

We need like 170M more

[sage lark]

I think the match 4 puzzle will complete it

[echo sundial]

Bungie writers had so much sauce back in the day, im glad it looks like they still got it.

reading those old terminals in marathon is crazy man its like

damn these guys had some shit going on in their heads lmao

[timber loom]

Probably not complete, but like skyrocket the numbers. I expect it to be available by weekend

[subtle oracle]

Its worth noting its supposed be like security layer 1. So us having more after makes sense

[analog crystal]

My headcanon is they Marathon'd Phobos and flung a second moon with everyone in it to TCIV. And all the UESC dudes had to just stick their fingers in their ears and pretend there weren't a bunch of corps talking about salvaging the planet the whole way there

[timber loom]

So Bungie gonna pump those online numbers with ranked and cryo and also reviews will come out

[sage lark]

jfc I just wanna play this weekend 😭

[subtle oracle]

Yeah these security breaches being like "youve dealt a large blow to the UESC" checks out

[subtle oracle]

eternally worried they dont wanna conflict with ranked weekend 1

[sage lark]

I will just hop on something else in the mean time, I got my stash built up enough for runs

[echo sundial]

why are yall worried what would seriously be bad about it coming out next weekend

[analog crystal]

Something I really hope for Cryo Archive, and it's a niche request, but I think back to the Leviathan raid and the cool ass 'secret' tunnels connecting the whole map.

God, I hope there's a load of secret accessways we can learn rather than taking main routes.

[echo sundial]

and not this once

[peak halo]

Chat who would win in a fight between 1 million runners and a 6 man fireteam of guardians?

[echo sundial]

I'm certain this is already the case tbh

its going to take days to find all the little secrets on cryo

[analog crystal]

It'd definitely make sense

[peak halo]

I don't think the runners would cause even one team wipe

[analog crystal]

Just a unique thing from Leviathan I think a lot of raids missed and a big ass spaceship would be a great chance to bring it back

[echo sundial]

they have bs space magic

runners have longshot with thermals

[digital plaza]

Guardians 100% :D

[echo sundial]

its honestly a fair game

[analog crystal]

I like the vents on the main maps but they're mostly all just single point connectors

[echo sundial]

erm actually they can just fight in a place where the light doesn't reach and the runner wins cuz they still respawn

[subtle oracle]

pretty sure 1-3 guardians could take all the mjolnirs, the pfhor, etc. Id argue a raid team could battle the jjaro or even the W'rk

[echo sundial]

get wrecked kid

too ez

[digital plaza]

Damn

[peak halo]

A single handheld supernova would fucking nuke Tau Ceti

[timber loom]

I mean, Witness is W'rkncacenter if you ask me

Polarity reversed though

[subtle oracle]

yeah p much. the amount of "cosmic multiversal threats" we've made into guns is too many

[echo sundial]

unrelated to marathon but I remember the nine being a thing in destiny 2 way back when and then they literally never explained anything more about them again after that despite them being the most fascinating thing ever

did they ever get more lore or explanation

[tranquil basin]

I mean a supernova would nuke many surrounding star systems. The stars would be fine but life could easily be eradicated

[peak halo]

The most recent DLCs actually explain what they are: dark matter beings tied to the gravity of the planets in Sol.

[tranquil basin]

Purely from radiation bombardment

[sage lark]

even without the "Light"?

[peak halo]

That was hinted at years ago but they fully explained it now

[echo sundial]

those are words arranged in the order of a sentence, all though I guess it makes sense because it is the nine and there are nine planets

[peak halo]

The Nine are wrkn's in an alternate dimension

[echo sundial]

I still don't know what the fuck a dark matter being is though

[sage lark]

a being of dark matter I assume

[peak halo]

You know how we're made of regular matter

[echo sundial]

WAIT A MINUTE

[tranquil basin]

Nobody knows what dark matter is

[echo sundial]

THERE ARE 8 PLANETS

[peak halo]

9 is the sun

[digital prism]

NUMBER 9 IS THE SUN 🙂

[tranquil basin]

Dark is just the term astronomers pull out of their asses when they don’t know what something is

[sage lark]

celestial bodies would be a better term then

[echo sundial]

That's not a planet but its better than counting pluto out of resentment for astronomers so +3 points

[tranquil basin]

Could be some fundamental particle, could be a bunch of planemos

[subtle oracle]

Its definitely harder but id say at least able to take on the pfhor and maybe mjolnirs.

[digital prism]

its less "planets" and more "celestial bodies"

[peak halo]

The Nine need sentient life to exist in Sol in order to survive

[echo sundial]

the consensus model is Lambda CDM because its basically a systematic error in the math versus the observation and the constant addresses that error exactly so some quantity is causing that effect and we don't fully understand it but it exists.

[tranquil basin]

Well even then, if they just wanted to go with the most gravitationally significant bodies, they’d have one from Ganymede bc that mf is bigger than mars

[peak halo]

The Nine stuff in D2 is awesome

[tranquil basin]

Im aware that it’s something

Wimps or machos

But the nature of it isn’t known

[echo sundial]

yes this is true

sort of

[digital prism]

I think it's because of, like, 8 of the nine simply orbit the sun instead of orbiting another planet or something

[tranquil basin]

It’s most definitely not known

[peak halo]

I do think the runners would beat the battleroids in a fight

[tranquil basin]

Wimps machos or modified Newtonian dynamics

[digital prism]

at this point we are splitting hairs over space magic bs lol

[subtle oracle]

Absolutely not

[digital plaza]

What a fun game Destiny 2 was, nice that they decided to take their time and cook marathon up and ended destiny saga the with a blast of an ending

[echo sundial]

Yes, but we know it's doing pretty exactly.

[digital plaza]

😊

[echo sundial]

Which is acting as additonal mass

[tranquil basin]

Only in terms of galactic gravity

[subtle oracle]

Hate to break it, we are like a plastic 1:100 replica of a real battleroid basically

[peak halo]

When I was a kid I thought dark matter was what made up the blackness of space

Like the reason space was black

[tranquil basin]

The whole reason dark matter is conjectured was because galaxies’ observable mass isn’t enough to hold them together

[echo sundial]

Right but it's more like here's this thing that's definitely real and we don't understand the cause rather than it being some nebulous thing we don't understand at all

like its pretty easy to see what its doing mathematically

[tranquil basin]

Yes and no

On a galactic scale yes but that provides 0 insight into what it actually is

Because the theorized explanations range from fundamental particles to billions of planemos

To doubting Newtonian mechanics

[peak halo]

We just assume dark matter's real because of specific things we can't explain otherwise. A lot of science works like this. Filling in logical gaps.

[tranquil basin]

Yes

Same with dark energy

Don’t know what it is, how it works, but it’s there, and stuff is accelerating

[echo sundial]

Well we assume dark matter is real because its real. We don't fully understand the source of it or the cause.

Using this language is bad because people who do not do physics will read this and assume scientists are making shit up

[peak halo]

"These galaxies move slightly faster than they should. This certainly means there's a whole other type of matter we can't perceive in any way."

[tranquil basin]

Well it just means there has to be mass

[peak halo]

Good fuck those scientists

[tranquil basin]

But the nature of that mass is unknown

[peak halo]

Every scientist is evil that's one of the themes of marathon the game

[echo sundial]

Case in point

[tranquil basin]

I am one of them

And that’s ok, fuck us bc the conventions for star types

Stupid as hell

Magnitude? Stupid as hell

[echo sundial]

Unfortunately I am a fake scientist engineer although I am pursuing a PhD for a research career because I'd rather be a scientist

lmao

[tranquil basin]

Honorable

[echo sundial]

Look man all I gotta say is that the employment rates between electrical engineers and physicists are

staggering

even though we do a lot of the same stuff

[tranquil basin]

Yeah

It’s crazy

[echo sundial]

I'd be doing pure science if I didn't need to pay rent

but alas such is the world

[tranquil basin]

Such is life

[echo sundial]

I'm guessing you do astrophysics then?

something like that?

Very cool

[tranquil basin]

Yeah, but I think those days are over unfortunately

Had a few published works but illness and stuff, not really in the cards anymore

[sage lark]

looks like Nona wants to change that

might be powerin up over time

[subtle oracle]

oh absolutely. shes a freak

[peak halo]

One of my more strongly held takes on the game is that if I were in the Marathon universe i'd join MIDA for real. They have every reason to be pissed at everything. Like fuck all of this.

They took the moon.

[echo sundial]

Oh man that's a real bummer, I was hoping to use my expertise as a PhD EE to work on radio/xray telescopes

[subtle oracle]

she tells us what we wanna hear but outside ONI, Nona is absolutely the one actually interested in our wellbeing

[tranquil basin]

That’s sick

[peak halo]

At one point Earth's spaceships were broken and they couldn't give Mars anymore food. What the hell man.

[echo sundial]

yeah well nobody at my Uni does anything like that

[sage lark]

I think the last message kinda shows the opposite with like a fucking Neon Genesis Evangelion thank you speech

but corporate

😭

[echo sundial]

all the money is semiconductor stuff and power electronics

Actually there is a guy who does Terahertz imaging research and its awesome he's really cool

[tranquil basin]

Unfortunate. Yeah finding a specialization aligned with your true interests can be hard. Though you can always find your way back to it

[echo sundial]

but thats not space stuff

[subtle oracle]

oh shes very clearly corporate but still as long as we inhabit a shell, she cares ab us in a detached way

[peak halo]

I wish I was science and math smart and not english major smart

[sage lark]

yeah in a roundabout way

she for sure cares about the shell

idk about us specifically

[peak halo]

I think ONI and NONA care

[tranquil basin]

Not space but still very cool conceptually

[subtle oracle]

ONI I cant get a bead on but its very clear we have a bank to loyal patron deal with her

[peak halo]

I don't think they're evil or insincere

Vulcan is an opp

[echo sundial]

Academia is so awesome as a grad student man you get to like, be paid like $15k a year to work under a guy who makes like $200-$300k a year when I could be making literally $70-$90k at entry level roles.

smh

They know the passion gets you

The suffering is temporary the suffering is temporary the suffering is temporary the suffering is temporary the suffering is temporary

lmaooo

[peak halo]

Traxus is the only faction I don't trust. They're gonna try to kill us for real.

[subtle oracle]

Vulcan is... interesting. We got cutoff right as we found out they were funding part of the UESC mission

But they were funding with mo information on what was happening

[sage lark]

yeah they got the UESC in their pocket

[subtle oracle]

I mean they wanna be the richest

makes sense

[sage lark]

they wanted to buy the bioagent so they can sell a cure

[peak halo]

What does traxus actually sell

[sage lark]

everything mostly

Traxus is like Blackrock

[echo sundial]

Yeah man its sick, they've got a lot of those cameras that have a few trillion fps and can record light literally moving through a medium.

[subtle oracle]

the UESC has thrown probably trillions or more at the wall trying to fogure out tau ceti and the marathon. Theyre not exactly making profit rn

[echo sundial]

They won't let me touch their toys though, so sad.

[peak halo]

A government agency isnt supposed to profit

[subtle oracle]

UESC is more of a company than we think

imo

[peak halo]

Sure

[subtle oracle]

Also ppl keep calling them America and like

[echo sundial]

The UESC, like most governments, is probably in like 5000000000 trillion gorillion dollars of debt

[subtle oracle]

as an america

this is a for profit governmental body

[peak halo]

So america

[echo sundial]

its a vanity thing because a failure on tau ceti means mida gets more cred back home

[echo sundial]

one could say that the UESC is an allegory

maybe

[subtle oracle]

richest country in sol bay-beeeeee

[echo sundial]

perhaps

[peak halo]

One thing that's mentioned in lore is that the first attempt at a space colony being a failure almost ensures human extinction

[subtle oracle]

But yeah UESC is rich in resources and power but probably not funds. while traxus has resources and funds but not as much power given theyre not militaristic

and private

[echo sundial]

pretty much the marathon is literally the UESC's hail mary

and it fucking broke real bad

so they're trying super hard to fix it

[subtle oracle]

without letting sol know

[peak halo]

Gaius makes the stakes clear when he mentions Sol's resources being finite

[subtle oracle]

covering up the Marathon Files

[tranquil basin]

That’s insane, I’ll have to look into that more

[subtle oracle]

sorry poor taste

[echo sundial]

yeah but he's also an elon musk tier AI who could be thinking in terms of the next 10 years or like literally the next 200-2000

[peak halo]

Right I figured he meant like within a few centuries

[subtle oracle]

dont give musk that much credit. Any other tech billionaire but not musk

[peak halo]

Also Tau Ceti was the only suitable candidate for colonization

[echo sundial]

im using musk because musk gives the same "multi-planetary or we all die" spiel that gaius does

[subtle oracle]

Thats valid, carry on

Musk would also be the first to buy into human waste burgers and bug shit milk

[echo sundial]

I think musk has irreparably damaged the publics perception of human space exploration and its a real shame

[peak halo]

My understanding just from what i've read is that colonizing mars irl is a childish fantasy

We have one planet

[echo sundial]

It isn't, its hard, but we do hard things all the time. It is a vast engineering challenge though.

[peak halo]

No Planet B as they say

[echo sundial]

Yes, the Earth is very important. More so than mars, I agree.

[subtle oracle]

If all the resources poured into mars colonization were rerouted to recouping Earth's natural resources and protecting our flora, fauna, and landscape, we wouldnt need to go to mars

[echo sundial]

I think we can pursue both things for the sake of it, regardless of billionaire fantasies.

A mars colony is first and foremast an exploratory and scientific pursuit

[peak halo]

It's one thing to send a few crews to gather info and bring them back

[echo sundial]

there are not that many resources poured into mars colonization

[peak halo]

We could do a manned mission to mars in the near future

[echo sundial]

definitely not enough to do all of that

[subtle oracle]

The issue with mars is theyre trying to skip funding the sciences and NASA and instead are trying to one up each others private space companies and takinf shortcuts

[echo sundial]

No if we go to mars we build a permanent base, there is a specific launch window available for return and transfer.

[subtle oracle]

1 billionaire (soon to be trillionaires) reallocating their wealth thats being used on nonsensical private research of their own "best man on earth" ideals towards helping relegate and protect the earth would make a massive difference

[echo sundial]

it will be like an antartic research station on another planet

[echo sundial]

He does not even use that money for space exploration.

SpaceX is funded by the NASA budget

and also his telecomm business

[subtle oracle]

the best time to research going to mars is when we can do it freely snd not need to do it bc we're worried earth wont be inhabitable

[peak halo]

Not to get too political but a mars colony would also be a way to cater to an ever-decreasing elite few at the expense of the many

[echo sundial]

He is not truly interested in space exploration outside of his own ego

[subtle oracle]

as shit stands we have a solid what 30 years before shit really hits the fan climate wise?

[peak halo]

In practice it would be a handful of trillionaires fucking off to space and leaving us here

[digital plaza]

Marathon ship irl when?

[echo sundial]

They would not be capable of living there

only very talented scientists and engineers would be capable of living on mars for many decades

[peak halo]

We already fucked ourselves beyond belief on climate change. We should stop trying to stop it and focus energy and resources into mitigating its effects when they do come.

[subtle oracle]

so the 1% and their team of now very wealthy private scientists they stole off earth to further their personal gains

[echo sundial]

no they're not going there

there is no mars colony for billionaires

I mean like NASA astronauts

[subtle oracle]

Im a firm believer that we underestimate the Earth's ability to renew itself if we just leave it alone

[echo sundial]

doing NASA work

The current plan is to establish a moon base by the earlier 2030's and achieve some form of self-sustainability there

the technology that goes into the development of this process is directly applicable to stuff here at home that addresses climate concerns and sustainability too!

It's an excellent justification for R&D and a two birds and one stone type situation

On top of that we get access to very fancy laboratories on the surfaces of other celestial bodies which allows to have a more complete understanding of our solar system and thus the Earth itself!

[subtle oracle]

You have too much faith theyll alsp use it here

[echo sundial]

They have done so for every previous NASA mission :)

[subtle oracle]

we've been shown for the last 50 years that the average politician or top 1% dont care about sustainability here

[peak halo]

It's not gonna be some perfect storm that wipes out the whole world, it's not a disaster movie. The climate crisis will cause food insecurity, droughts that lead to water shortages, excess deaths from heat related illness, massive refugee crises, etc.

[subtle oracle]

and in the end theyll pull NASA funding if they dont like what theyre doing

[echo sundial]

Consumer electronics were invented by government contracting with NASA.

The first civilian use of a microprocessor was onboard the Saturn V

[subtle oracle]

hmmm I've heard this before. possibly the game we're playing where Tau Ceti 4 is a last ditch effort bc companies and politicians fucked up sol

[peak halo]

I really wanna know what life is like back home in-game

[echo sundial]

I don't really appreciate private space companies and I would prefer if NASA constructed most of their stuff in house

I think that space is first and fore-most a public endeavor

[peak halo]

The next map should be set on o block

[echo sundial]

and that selling it to private industry misses the spirit of the whole thing

[subtle oracle]

Yeah same but thats unlikely to happen in the next ~2 years

[subtle oracle]

Yeah back when the most important thinf to companies was consumers not shareholders

[echo sundial]

it is to some extent, a big problem is that because NASA is a government program it is subject to more litigation and hurdles that increases cost by orders of magnitude in comparison to something like spaceX

which is dominant because their launch costs are literally a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a full fledged NASA rocket.

And the full fledged NASA rockets are also just built by Boeing instead, though NASA engineers are involved with the process.

[subtle oracle]

I mean the influence of musk on the US gov and their policies to favor private companies like spacex over public ones like NASA cant be understated

[echo sundial]

No, but its also the pragmatic choice for a variety of reasons. SpaceX has made the price per kilogram to orbit literally thousands of times cheaper than it was 10 years ago.

I think that SpaceX should be siezed from Elon musk and nationalized under NASA

because he is Elon Musk

but the product is real and useful

[subtle oracle]

kinds how he works. Buys already useful company, lobbies to help it and gain more from it, if it goes down he jumps ship

[echo sundial]

Space X is unqiue in that it is fr his baby

but he is not an engineer himself lmao

he has no formal education

[subtle oracle]

Hes very much like the in game factions

[echo sundial]

He does have a team of the most talented rocket scientists in the world atm though, which is sad, because I wish they did not work for him.

But whatever.

[subtle oracle]

pays someone more capable to do what he wants for simply personal gain

which is most CEOs but hes especially egregious

[echo sundial]

To give you an idea of the difference in cost between a full nasa system and a spacex system, a fully expended falcon heavy (meaning the entire rocket is destroyed upon payload delivery, no booster landings) has a similar payload capacity to orbit as the SLS, it costs about $160M.

The SLS, the Artemis moon rocket, which is going to send astronauts to the moon in early April very soon, tune in its awesome, costs about $3-$4 billion per launch.

so its about 20 times cheaper to conctract spaceX for the same work atm.

hopefully this changes in the future.

[tranquil basin]

Unfortunately this is the nature of government spending and efficiency

[south fog]

It makes sense that durandal sees us runners as inferior, we’re basically maggots stealing what little value is left of the corpse he created

[sage lark]

wdym by corpse he created

[tranquil basin]

I assume tau ceti or the marathon

Bc he invited the pfhor

[sage lark]

idk if he was inviting them specifically

[tranquil basin]

Though I guess the colonists were fucked anyway if the anomaly was there

Yeah I don’t think he knew who would really show up

Just assumed someone would get his Skype call

[sage lark]

so I dont see this as a reason to think of us as inferior because of this

if anything we are ascended from humans

[tranquil basin]

Well he did say we disgust him

In one of the voice lines

Though I don’t know what aspect of us disgusts him

Or maybe that he’s just become desperate enough to need the help of less powerful beings? Idk

[sage lark]

no clue

hope theres new contracts

most of the priority ones end like

"see you next season"

not many climactic endings but I guess they arent supposed to be

its a living narrative

but a little payoff would be nice which is what im hoping for from cryo

[tranquil basin]

Part of me thinks we’ll get at least one cyac contract for cryo

Just bc of the “get introduced to all factions” requirement

But idk

[sage lark]

trueeeeee

thats a good point

or maybe its because each faction will give a quest for the Marathon

talk about being hopeful

[tranquil basin]

I hope so yeah

I mean the lore items and stuff alone will still be a ton of info

But yeah contracts would be nice

[timber loom]

If there are new contracts there should be entries in codex no?

I mean, they might be codexless, but that would be a bummer

[sage lark]

Thats true ☹️

Maybe they will add them when its unlocked

[digital plaza]

There is going to be some kind of limited time contracts for cyac

[drifting mulch]

doesn't the Equanimity ship arrive in 1 year? that's guaranteed 4 seasons of new content

[sage lark]

Really? Did they say so I didnt catch it

Hope its true

[digital plaza]

In codex for one of the new titles you can see this as a requirement

Something along the lines of “complete limited time contracts in one week”

[sage lark]

Oh nice

Wonder if they are narrative ones then

[digital plaza]

Would be nice to have some

[tranquil basin]

In theory

Unless something happened to it

But I do think we will be on the equanimity at some point whether it’s intact or if something destroyed it

[slow tulip]

So how are the shells getting to Tau Ceti? Has another ship(s) left the Sol System with the manufacturer capacities, faction AIs, and us? Are we planet-side somehow?

[sage lark]

faction AIs are all on Sol except ONI

the corpos got wind of the distress signal

in 2888

and in 2893 we are in the system running

so presumably FTL capable ships in low orbit

[slow tulip]

When did humans acquire FTL? I thought it hadn't been developed (or acquired from the Pfhor) yet.

[sage lark]

Marathons journey took 300 years to cross 12LY(11.9)

Equanimitys journey is 97-98 years to cross 12LY

i think the only reasonable thing is that there was a technological leap in those 100~ years since the equanimity launched that we have FTL capable ships

the journey still wouldve taken 5 years

[prime cipher]

OK I need an answer to this so I can sleep

Are we actually?

[sage lark]

wdym

[prime cipher]

Ship Date: 751y 104d 06h 49m 18s
The current marathon Terminal we have a connection to says it is in the year 2777

This is before the colony is even made on Tau ceti

[sage lark]

you can also see this here that the timeline for the silkworm/weaveworm tech rapidly sped up after 2797:
2797 SILKworm s3; integrated personal biomarker printing of full-
body prosthetics.
2801 SILKworm s3v2; plus-factored owner-paired DNA weave linkage.
2803 SILKworm s3v3; synthetic bone weave replication.
2805-07 SILKworm s3v4-v9; [rapid SILKworm technology advancement]
2809 WEAVEworm Phylum; all SILKworm series and subtypes brought
under newly established WEAVEworm product category.
2843 WEAVEworm p1; reconstructive surgery on cybernetic bodies.
2848 WEAVEworm p2; multi-stage printing of biomata [shells].
2872 WEAVEworm p3; omni-wave printing of biomata [shells].
2884 WEAVEworm p4; weave repair integration in biomata [shells]

[sage lark]

idk what the ARG is doing im talking about whats in game

[prime cipher]

Do we have any theories as to why Marathon is in a different time?

That is the current ticking time from the Maraton "live" server

[sage lark]

in game its 2893

that is the year in game

[prime cipher]

The marathon ship it is 2777

[sage lark]

what do you want me to say

a derelict ship has 2777

[prime cipher]

Discuss

[sage lark]

you can only speculate why that is

[prime cipher]

Maybe both are true? did bungie make a mistake

[sage lark]

idk maybe the security protocols (The ARG) are dated for that

[prime cipher]

The ARG is a live feed of Cyro though

[sage lark]

it would make no sense that we are in 2777 because the colony wouldnt even be established

[prime cipher]

It wouldnt

[sage lark]

we dont know why

it says

2777

[prime cipher]

The marathon is attacked in 2794

[slow tulip]

Could it be related to damage to the Marathon?

[prime cipher]

If the time on the ship is 2777 then the compilers would be friendly

[sage lark]

how did you come to that conclusion

[prime cipher]

They aren't made to be slaves until the attack

[sage lark]

what?

they are enslaved since the Pfhor attack their world

[slow tulip]

I thought the Pfhor enslaved them long before the attack.

[sage lark]

yes

[prime cipher]

I thought they helped terraform Tau Ceti first?

[sage lark]

what

Jjaro and Spht terraformed Lhowon

their homeworld

[prime cipher]

Oh wait why are they on the marathon then?

[sage lark]

because of the attack in 2794

maybe remnants

maybe Durandal is back

we dont know yet

[prime cipher]

So I guess we are not looking at a live feed but the past?

Oh damn digging I was right

"shipDate": "2777-07-07T12:00:00.000Z",

The current date on the marathon is 2777-7-7

[sage lark]

idk if the feed is from the past

bungie likes 7s

might be just an easter egg

[prime cipher]

it's pretty out there front centre though

[slow tulip]

I'd love to learn how are the Shells getting onto Tau Ceti and where are they coming from? I'm wondering if the corps sent ships after the Marathon launch, expecting the project to fail.

[cobalt storm]

they have to run a marathon to get to tau ceti 🥹

[sage lark]

I gave you an idea of what it could be

[slow tulip]

Yet another reason for this game to collab with running brands.

[cobalt storm]

the new nike marathon arachnes, they skin you if you dont run a marathon a day

[slow tulip]

I appreciate what you pointed out. For me, this one of the biggest questions currently.

[slow tulip]

Don't worry carbon plate running shoes already do that.

I want a cheeseburger flavored gel pack for my next long run. MAKE IT HAPPEN BUNGIE

[twin trout]

unstable cheese gel

[slow tulip]

There's already a real company called Gu Gels that makes race day consumables. The market cross-pollination is there for the taking.

[wind quail]

What does MIDA stand for? Mars Inpendence something?

[tranquil basin]

I don’t think there’s ever been an answer

[tranquil basin]

This would complicate a lot of things

[sage lark]

Mayhem inspires direct action

but you can make multiple meanings out of it

[tranquil basin]

I figured this was just a motto thing they did

[sage lark]

might be

[tranquil basin]

But idk

Welcome back to another episode of me saying something out of my ass and then saying “but idk”

[true zinc]

when i ads and press run my char is still in ads, kinda sux.....

[tranquil basin]

Like sprinting? Or regular movement

[true zinc]

i use toggle aim

[tranquil basin]

Then

Then don’t use toggle aim

[true zinc]

but i mean when i ads iam aiming when i run i should run...like in all other extraction shooters

[tranquil basin]

Well what if someone wants to toggle aim, and then move while aiming

[true zinc]

or i aiming switch to my melee when i switch back to the weapon my char is still in aim....

[tranquil basin]

Then don’t use toggle aim

[true zinc]

then he use wasd dude...u dont understand

[tranquil basin]

Who is he

[true zinc]

u

[tranquil basin]

Oh of course

[twin trout]

mars is damnibly arid, perhaps

(destiny reference)

[tranquil basin]

my itchy dirty ass

[acoustic harbor]

Mars Intergalactic Defiance Alliance

[tranquil basin]

I mean they aren’t really intergalactic

Pretty sure only the jjaro are

[twin trout]

intersolar more like

[tranquil basin]

Yeah

They’re about 25000ly away from intergalactic space

[craggy finch]

intergalactic planetary planetary intergalactic

[tranquil basin]

ippi

[craggy finch]

The most punk thing you can do is make up an acronym nobody actually knows the meaning of

[sage lark]

truee trueee

[sage lark]

we love some beastie boyz

[craggy finch]

another dimension

[visual lynx]

many independent different acronyms

[dreamy hawk]

What is this, a Futurama episode?

[restive knoll]

Real quick question - is there any human presence on the ship/ships that arrived to Tau Ceti as part of Goliath?

[terse wren]

Open Marathon chat in morning

First thing I see

[visual lynx]

why, because people are listening to classical music?

[dreamy hawk]

Yes, Orion has human subordinates.

[tranquil basin]

You’re welcome

[tired temple]

maybe dumb question bc i dont know much

charter says to us that he used to be a runner-how? afaik the faction leaders are just all ai's and runners are former humans in a now disembodied conciousness. are some runners ai? are runner minds capable of being turned into ai's?

[dreamy hawk]

Charter, Gantry, and Orion are a runners. They’re not AI.

ONI, Vulcan, Gaius, and Nona are AI.

[tired temple]

oh shit

i did not know that ty

also

whats up w/ gaius and gantry

[tranquil basin]

It is worth questioning at what point a digitized consciousness is considered an AI, but Vulcan, Gaius, ONI, and Nona are all AIs of their respective corps

[tranquil basin]

Wdym

[tired temple]

why r they kinda the same but not

alot of aimilarities

similarities*

same voice, similar looking

maybe thats just it

[tranquil basin]

The Aussie and the pink guy?

[tired temple]

idk maybe i'm overthinking this and its nothing lol

[tranquil basin]

Or do you mean Orion and gantry

[twin trout]

[tired temple]

gantry and nucal dude

or wait

[twin trout]

they don't really look the same <w<

[tired temple]

i'm confusjng names oops

[dreamy hawk]

I hope it’s explored more but it seems that they’re really nowhere close in capability, at least as-is. But we also don’t really see how we an interact with the digital environment, really.

[tired temple]

nycaloric dude and the guy who near the beginning yells at us and says that the UESC is watching us

[twin trout]

orion! :D

[tired temple]

why cant i remember his name, i thought that was gaius

oh ok

[twin trout]

gaius is the nucal fellow

orion is the stinky uesc guy

[tired temple]

ohh ok ty

i'm bad w/ learning names

[twin trout]

is okie :3

[tired temple]

i'm very new to marathon, didnt even know anythibg abt this game until my friend forced me to play the server slam but game us fun and lore is cool

i love sci fi stuff so i am rly into the little bit of lore that i know

[lament palm]

My suggestion is to look up madalorgaming’s vids. He did a game review series on the original marathon games.

[raven marlin]

Yeah it’s really good sci-fi writing. Reminds me a lot of The Culture by Iain Banks, The Expanse and even some PKD.

[burnt nebula]

how long until we can be shells IRL?

and whos gonna do it?

[dreamy hawk]

If you ever want: #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[open shore]

Briefly looked at Marathon lore. Are the Pfhor still around? Are they potentially going to be an enemy race down the line aside from uesc bots?

[lament palm]

I mean, we do see the s’pht. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the pfhor come around

[dreamy hawk]

Most likely and yeah I would assume.

But things have gone down different from the OG games already, so there’s ambiguity to a lot.

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. We do have that built in wire to hack stuff but that’s about it

[raven marlin]

Till there’s a halfway decent digital simulacrum of a person? Probably this century. Actual transfer of consciousness? Probably never.

[tranquil basin]

Unfortunately we have to define consciousness first

Which hasn’t really been going well so far

[terse wren]

It wouldn’t be transfer anyway it would be duplication.

[raven marlin]

Right, which is why I think a lot of things are overstated as far as AI goes. Especially AGI. You aren’t getting that without a much deeper understanding of consciousness to begin with.

[terse wren]

And it depends on the extent to which a soggy piece of anatomy composed of trillions of proteins and nucleic acids and lipids random ly banging into each other can ever be modeled in silico

Never mind the fact that the spinal cord and peripheral nervous system / environment / proprioxeptive network are part of consciousness

However

[tranquil basin]

Well in marathon it appears to be a transfer

[terse wren]

I kind of think it is possible tbh

Hahaha

Even as a skeptical biologist

[tranquil basin]

It’s sci fi of course

[dreamy hawk]

Are there sources that suggest that? Beyond the marketing I’ve read?

[terse wren]

Yeah that sits ill with me unless there’s some legislation or some moral conviction or something against it

[raven marlin]

It’s why I think if anything it will be a lot more along the lines of synthetic biology vs full machinery. Some things just aren’t going to be translatable to pure silicon imo. But even then you’re just crafting a new “person”

[terse wren]

If you can transfer you can duplicate a

[sage lark]

Cybernetics will come first ofcourse

[dreamy hawk]

Inb4 pure, perfect digital consciousness next year.

[sage lark]

Merging flesh and machine before merging mind with machine

[raven marlin]

What a nightmare to wake up and realize you’re just a living circuitboard.

[dreamy hawk]

Which we’re already off to doing. There’s wild prosthetics already being researched.

[dreamy hawk]

But how is that different from realizing you’re a meaty circuit board?

[raven marlin]

Brain machine interfaces are coming a long way. Look up the N3 program by DARPA.

[dreamy hawk]

Oop loaded in to a match. Brb

[sage lark]

True but stuff like the battleroid where they have stronger muscle tissue and titanium bones etc

[raven marlin]

Well I mean if you realize you’re just a disembodied “spirit” occupying someone’s hard drive with no mobility

[sage lark]

I would think the body would reject that

[raven marlin]

https://www.darpa.mil/research/programs/next-generation-nonsurgical-neurotechnology

This has been in the works for over a decade now and iirc they were looking at using it to control drone swarms.

[elfin ermine]

imagine dead players will get bingus shell to spectate

that would be cool

half the server would die on purpose but its worth it

[raven marlin]

That would be sick, especially if you had limited interaction. Like you could meow at players lol

[zealous laurel]

You can do that now if you have a mic and aren't a coward

[terse wren]

In many many years tiny organic molecules could be completely designed instead of pooped out of bacteria or yeast or whatever. But not for a long time. Our own engineering optimization at nano scale has first to eclipse engineering by natural selection

It’s very likely that the absolutely optimal design for a “life form” doesn’t involve cells made of lipid bilayers etc.

Because that’s an accident of whatever happened on early Earth and those first building blocks are what evolution had to work with ever since.

But they are now SO optimized within their constraints

[timber loom]

McDonalds

[raven marlin]

Does CRISPR put us closer to that or is that strictly gene editing

[terse wren]

Something like proteins will be part of whatever it is. Because they enable chemistry that otherwise wouldn’t work.

[terse wren]

Yeah. “Strictly” gene editing is huge.

CRISPR is an actual miracle tech.

It super works I’ve done it a lot.

[analog pelican]

Does Durandal basically cause the UESC Marathon to get ass blasted by aliens?

🐸

[terse wren]

The transform rate is incredible

It’s not like retroviral infection or classic transgenic methods where you’re sifting for that one of 900 zebrafish or mice or whatever where it took.

[raven marlin]

Whoa that’s so cool! What have you done with it? I only read a bit about it when it came out and the work done on the COVID vaccines.

[terse wren]

CRISPR and related tech are nowhere near full realization as far as their capabilities.

[terse wren]

It’s just basic research on how body parts develop. So it’s in fish and frogs which are admittedly easy cases because you just inject their huge eggs

[lament palm]

Uhhh not sure. I’ll go look it up

I thought it was tycho that did that

But rn I can’t remember

[raven marlin]

That’s really cool though

[terse wren]

You can cut out and replace pieces of genes and regulatory elements to see what perturbations do.

You can also insert like inferred ancestral sequences.

Or real ancestral sequences from ancient dna

[tranquil basin]

Well Julia Nardin specifically described it as you giving up your body. Gantry also says you ripped your soul from your body

[terse wren]

But biology is enormously complex because of the random inefficient way the history of life has proceeded. So every “function” or structure will have like hundreds or thousands of redundant genes in complicated networks that affect it.

[tranquil basin]

If they could just copy souls then they’d just take the best ones and copy them over and over, no need for volunteers

[terse wren]

And the timing and amount of location of deployment of those genes are each controlled by god knows how many regulatory sequences.

Which evolve much faster than genes usually.

[raven marlin]

Have there been cases where what we thought was vestigial actually has a function we just didn’t detect? I’ve always wondered about that. And the whole viral RNA thing has always fascinated me. Viruses in general, really.

[terse wren]

An evolutionary shift or a like artificially engineered shift probably in general involves tweaking hundreds of regulatory elements.

[terse wren]

Yeah like it’s more the norm than the exception lmao

[raven marlin]

Oh 😂

[terse wren]

“Junk” dna is filled with regulatory information and codes for important small rnas

Lots of bodily structures at larger scale definitely do stuff. Like the q isn’t whether it’s designed for a purpose it’s whether it happens to be useful at some point in an organism’s life in a way that would affect fitness.

Many things just happen to be useful

Sometimes

Enough to confer a tiny advantage or whatever

Or a disadvantage if you don’t have them.

[raven marlin]

Good thing I’ve kept everything so far then I guess

Do you know any good lit on viruses in the sense of them being looked at as another branch of life? That concept has intrigued me given how they’re structured, how they operate and how their transfer helped shape other life.

[snow pumice]

Guys, I've updated my series of articles about the Marathon story for a new players with additional 2 chapters providing insights on who owns shells, who are the runners and how they are being controller/calibrated.

Marathon — The People Who Cannot Die [4/5] https://medium.com/@warhogy/marathon-the-people-who-cannot-die-4-5-643b2fcdf253?postPublishedType=repub,
Marathon — Runners Calibrated, Deployed, Owned [5/5] https://medium.com/@warhogy/marathon-runners-calibrated-deployed-owned-5-5-56fd669388b3,

If you haven't read it before, start from here "Marathon — The Ship That Was Never Meant to Save Us [1/5]" https://medium.com/@warhogy/marathon-the-ship-that-was-never-meant-to-save-us-1-3-aff1f5c25fca

[long kernel]

Yeah I agree, most likely explanation is a destructive scan, meaning the process of digitizing a human mind kinda destroys the original biological one

[analog pelican]

Anybody played Metal Eden? Playing it on PS Plus, a lot of similarity to Marathon lore. DOOM like gameplay. Just recommending for those who it may tick boxes for!

🐸

[late field]

It's the most okay game I've ever played

If u have ps plus play it but don't buy ts

[analog pelican]

Yeah it’s a solid 7/10 at best for sure

🐸

[late field]

Less

The only good thing about it is the aesthetics and voice acting

[analog pelican]

Reminds me of games from the 360/PS3 era. Wish we had more basic, fairly linear FPS campaigns like that tbh

🐸

[late field]

Ik like killzone and vanquish

But metal Eden is bunz yo

[analog pelican]

Both bangers. Killzone 2 is such a slept on campaign too

🐸

[analog pelican]

Eh I’m having fun, but yeah I know it’s not great

🐸

[latent python]

I respect enjoying things that are not great

[terse wren]

Yeah sure but once digitized it can be copied any number of times

[long kernel]

True

Idk then

[zealous laurel]

Some of my favorite games are Just Fine! Not everything can be a once in a generation sorta deal. And that's good, actually!

[long kernel]

Maybe it’s some no cloning theorem silliness where a consciousness is so complex that trying to replicate it won’t work? Idk I’m stealing bobiverse lore now

[terse wren]

Ah yeah but I’m not on work computer rn. This is something I’ve also wondered about a lot and there’s no strict answer. I lean toward the traditional concept that viruses are degraded fragments of cellular life

[terse wren]

One thing that is pretty clear is that genealogically we are bacteria the same way birds are dinosaurs and therefore reptiles. And we are also archaea. Well we’re composites of archaea and non archaea bacteria (our mitochondria).

[small prairie]

I mean they are definitely a different kind of life not being prokaryotic or eukaryotic

[terse wren]

And also god knows what else because retroviruses and similar pathogens have dropped random stretches of dna into us

[small prairie]

I’m a bio major btw so if you’re interested in this stuff I’m here lmao

[small prairie]

Oh yeah definately

[terse wren]

That’s not strictly true. If they’re degraded versions of cellular life then some would be prokaryotes or eukaryotes or whatever

We use genealogy these days not essential features

So for instance there is a transmissible cancer that affects dogs (and another that does Tasmanian devils).

These cancers are unicell based infections like uh well they act kind of like fungal infections

They have their own unique genetics — they don’t recruit host cells

They just grow in you and then can be transmitted

But the cells themselves are dog cells. They descend from dog cells and they still retain much of the genome.

So what this cancer is — it’s a unicellular pathogenic dog.

And if we knew the original breed for instance we could say it’s a unicellular pathogenic golden retriever or whatever.

Even though it looks nothing like a dog. And does nothing dog like.

So this pathogen then is also a canid and a carnivoran and a mammal and an amniote and a tetrapod and a gnathostome and a vertebrate etc etc

[hushed dawn]

"unicellular pathogenic dog" is going to echo in my head for a week

that is not a dismissal thank you for explaining this

[tulip panther]

I'm still not gonna call him dad.

Not even if there's a fire.

[terse wren]

Rip man he’s doing the best he can

Receipts. My favorite poorly cited paper (not written by me)

Frank, U., 2007. The evolution of a malignant dog. Evolution & Development, 9(6).

[vital zephyr]

anyone have all xenobiopsy codex entries? im missing the last 3

[terse wren]

Fantastic story with which to teach evolution and the nature of the tree of life.

[dreamy hawk]

This isn’t really true, though. It’s still an area of avid debate and discussion as is the working definition of “life.”

[terse wren]

Yeah origin of life work is hard bc of lack of direct evidence. The most primitive identified life forms already have a million components. It’s possible that there are “living fossil” microbes somewhere, maybe in plain sight, that fill in the gaps. Or that all the precursor lineages have died. It’s been a long time.

[dreamy hawk]

It’s archaea all the way down.

😂

[terse wren]

It’s even possible that life originated more than once on earth and that the descendants of the second origin are still with us as a shadow biosphere. That they’re small and we don’t detect them because we use as probes sequences designed against known genomes.

[dreamy hawk]

We should all revert back to unicellular organisms. Life was easier. Better.

Do I think? No. Chemotaxis. 🧘

[terse wren]

Unfortunately we often do.

That’s cancer.

[dreamy hawk]

Not that way!

[terse wren]

Literally not even joking. That’s what cancer is.

[dreamy hawk]

No I know.

I’m just morbid and enjoyed the correction.

[terse wren]

I know hahaha

I know marathon isn’t hard sci fi but that little flavor of it vs space fantasy is so nice.

[dreamy hawk]

It’s a little more grounded in appearance than say, Destiny, for sure.

[terse wren]

I hate Destiny lore lmao it’s like a terrible pastiche of really tired space fantasy tropes

[rotund stump]

I mean I can't blame them when they're running the same universe for 11 years straight

[long kernel]

I love destiny lore but yeah I kinda get ya there

[frank river]

Its a derivative of Firefly honestly. They even got the actors to do voice acting.

[rotund stump]

for what it is it's aged pretty well imo

[long kernel]

Marathon is actually pretty hard sci fi, relatively

At least the stuff earlier in the timeline

[rotund stump]

part hard scifi part horror 💀

[frank river]

Not saying much since the term "retrocausal" basically means you can do whatever youw ant.

[long kernel]

After the first game it goes off the rails a bit

[frank river]

Destiny was never intended to be hard sci fi though its a space opera but retrocausal stuff is basically the force.

[long kernel]

Because psychic ancient aliens

[craggy finch]

Marathon 2 deals more with the alien stuff so I suppose it's meant to serve as a contrast to how grounded humanity was in the first game

[long kernel]

I think you mean paracausality but yeah, it’s just space magic

It doesn’t really hide that

[craggy finch]

The Traveller is essentially the Force

[frank river]

Marathon 2 sort of loosely adapts the original concepts and puts it more in a modern cyberpunk concept

[craggy finch]

eventually Destiny just straight up had a Star Wars crossover

[long kernel]

“Paracausality” is just the scientific in universe term they use for space magic

[long kernel]

I’ll still insist that it was less a proper crosse over and more a very very obvious homage

[terse wren]

Ye

[long kernel]

Specifically it is the physical conduit for the physical manifestation of the force

[frank river]

destiny is like star wars with more of a feeling of serenity

[long kernel]

With the veil being the physical conduit for the psychological manifestation of the force

[terse wren]

Serenity/firefly doesn’t have a million superheroes running around tho

[long kernel]

I love destiny but I feel like the game lost what made the original game and lore feel truly special

[terse wren]

At least in Marton we’re either just schlubs or we’re one sort of fucked up supersoldier depending on game

[long kernel]

Which is that sort of Wild West post apocalypse vibe

[terse wren]

Ya I remember when D1 was happening that was the feel

Supposed to be

[long kernel]

I feel like a lot of the lore still captures that

[terse wren]

It was compelling. It was supposed to be about a devastated planet.

[long kernel]

Just not the main storyline or game

[terse wren]

And the recovery. Like End of Evangelion happened and now we’re picking over the wreckage

[long kernel]

Yeah

Well

Ok the recovery was the dark age

From the start the games were about building to a new golden age

But I do feel like a good bit of that got lost and devolved into “punch the new eldritch horror of the week”

Which is fun and all but feels like it lost something

I would love a dark age destiny game though

[silk bane]

It got pretty good near the end, imo. The biggest villian we've faced is a group of people that were at the heights of their golden age, and fell to despair by themselves trying to conquer it all. Pretty compelling.

[long kernel]

Oh yeah

Final shape was good

[analog pelican]

Destiny is Star Wars, Marathon is Dune (yes, I know Star Wars was heavily influenced by Dune)

🐸

[dreamy hawk]

Reminder that the Gardner and Winnower have parallels to concepts originally from Marathon. Marathon is relatively a little more sci but it’s still full of fi. The anomaly is most likely a literal chaos god.

Marathon is more to Halo than Destiny, but every Bungie IP is full of fantasy elements.

[spice carbon]

Kinda off topic ask: why exactly do they use asteroid and moons to make the crysts?

[dreamy hawk]

They’re big; hollow them out and you’ve already got a usable shell for a ship and all the resources you just mined on site can be processed and used as material on site.

Why build a big ship when digging out a rock will do just as well?

[spice carbon]

Fair enough, just didn’t think the asteroids had enough metal for producing the ship

Granted it is said after construction they take years to conduct maintenance on if damaged

[frank river]

Way cheaper to build on something that’s in orbit it is a real feasible strategy

[dreamy hawk]

Depends on the rock. Some are pure metal.

[latent python]

Though it turns out that the CRISTs didn't work that well anyway

So

[dreamy hawk]

And more importantly this ^

[frank river]

Metal doesn’t matter

[spice carbon]

Maybe that’s why there are so few

[frank river]

you could put all the metal you want

[dreamy hawk]

My impression was always that because they are so big, they kinda exceeded what humanity could realistically muster.

[spice carbon]

Yeah but it was not like earth had an infinite iron glitch at the time. Probably why they only had about five before the marathon

[dreamy hawk]

A “we can do it” vs “should we do it” moment.

[dreamy hawk]

Where?

[spice carbon]

In the original games

[frank river]

you can just put the metal onto the moon …..

[dreamy hawk]

Where are there so few in the OG games?

[frank river]

Also the moon is made of metal

Iron magnesium aluminum and titanium

rock is just a high amount

[latent python]

The design of the CRIST was innovative and useful, but it was not low-maintenance. Of the five CRISTs that were built, four lasted around one hundred years, and the other one only seventy three before they needed to be brought back to Earth and refitted. Each refitting took about fifteen years, and completely occupied the Earth-Space Shipbuilding Facility for that time. The result was that no more than five CRISTs could be kept in service at any time. No CRIST was ever built after 2310.

[spice carbon]

Through the dialogue in the terminal. Think in the OG lore for the game, they had a few of these ships which were originally designed for interstellar cargo shipping from earth to mars

[frank river]

You just need to have a refinery and you could just make the marathon ship from the moon itself

[spice carbon]

I mean probably what they did the mars moon

[frank river]

What

we could do this now

we just can’t get there because we need more resources to put people there etc

[long kernel]

Makes sense, wasn’t their first game a fantasy strategy game?

[lunar cove]

Nah it was gnop

[latent python]

Deep Lore in gnop

[lunar cove]

They did Myth after Marathon

[long kernel]

Asteroids are typically rather rich in metals, as that’s what is densest and thus most likely to form a solid structure in orbit

[dreamy hawk]

OH; I get what you mean. Gotcha.

[frank river]

No it was a top down shooter for the Apple Macintosh 2

[spice carbon]

Actually another question regarding the shells for runners. Are the standard the only ones Available, even with their cosmetic alternatives designs, or have is it possible for custom shells to be designed

[dreamy hawk]

No that was GNOP! But Myth was second, yeah.

[lunar cove]

Gnop, Desert Storm, Minotaur, Pathways, The Marathons, the Myths, Oni, the Halos, the Destinys, and back to Marathon

[long kernel]

Ah I had it mixed up then

[dreamy hawk]

Oh yeah ONI came before Myth.

[small prairie]

didnt they release 2 fantasy rts games too?

[frank river]

No also it would break the game

[lunar cove]

Myth and Myth 2

[dreamy hawk]

They did? I’m scrambled then.

[frank river]

It was operation desert storm. Oni was for G3 power Mac’s and OG marathon was for Mac 68ks

[lunar cove]

Oh and Crimson Steam Pirates

[spice carbon]

In game, yeah I understand the imbalance it would bring, but I mean lore wise? Granted most of the runner we play as are in dept to seikaguchi and probably wouldn’t have the money to do such a thing

[lunar cove]

But Gnop was first

[spice carbon]

(Have no idea what it cost to print a shell)

[latent python]

Yes personalized shells exist in-universe, just not for player runners

[dreamy hawk]

GNOP > Operation Desert Storm > Minotaur > Marathon > Myth > ONI > Halo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie

I have now reoriented myself.

[frank river]

lore wise it would make less sense since the shells are like Warframe where they have a purpose that is designed

[dreamy hawk]

There are custom shells in lore. I just doubt we’ll see them.

Or, get to use them, specifically.

[eternal shell]

yeah it'd be pretty weird if there was just six shells

[latent python]

Yeah I'm sure we'll fight one

[eternal shell]

they're probably used for all kinds of purposes

[dreamy hawk]

Orion I’m sure has a custom shell, for example.

[eternal shell]

not just this scavenger hunt with guns kind of thing we're doing

[latent python]

We actually know that shells have been used for all kinds of operations

[craggy finch]

gantry says that a lot of MIDA members have altered themselves, but also interestingly drives a distinction between cyborgs and biomata

[frank river]

really where is that in one of the recordings?

[craggy finch]

implying he isn't one either

[frank river]

would be interesting as a sort of a prismatic option from destiny but probably would only make sense as one shell like how rook makes sense as one shell but balance would be a big issue IHMO

what i would love is having shells from the contractors that are themed

bungie can steal this idea from me i won't feel bad

[civic valve]

So is this game a direct continuation of the original trilogy? If not is it one of the..branching timeline from infinite, and yes i already finished the whole trilogy before i step into this newest one.

[frank river]

reimagining

[timid sorrel]

So for Nona and her questline. What exactly is she trying to do? Is she being duplicitous as ONI says she is?

[latent python]

Likely mostly a timeline following Marathon 1, the events of Marathon 2 are completely up in the air

[civic valve]

Oh..

I genuinely thought this is one of the branching timeline that infinity implies

[latent python]

Well it sure could be

There are enough inconsistencies that it seems it would be

But also M2 was almost entirely not set in Tau Ceti

So we're in a place and time that wasn't explored very thoroughly by the original trilogy anyway

[civic valve]

Damm i think i hope too much about it being a continuation i legit finish the whole trilogy after i pre-order the game so i can atleast keep up with the lore.

[latent python]

It will become more certain as we find out the ultimate fates of Durandal, Tycho, Leela

The SO

if we find those things out

[spice carbon]

I mean, it’s seems like durandal is up and running, so maybe something happened to the other two in this timeline (if this is a reimagined universe of sorts)

[latent python]

Yeah it sure seems like we'll find out what's going on with Durandal

And that will help us orient ourselves in a timeline

[spice carbon]

Not to mention we got other Ai that are in game now.

[eternal shell]

leela is partying in the vylae network and i will not accept any canon to the contrary

[latent python]

I'm okay with that

[civic valve]

I heard that the destroyer shell is based on mjolnir recon unit was that confirmed?

[eternal shell]

and the SO is currently in every 3rd party scenario made for marathon, doing his thing

[sage lark]

the looks sure, beyond that idk

[eternal shell]

oh that reminds me i need to replay rubicon

rubicon is so good

[dreamy hawk]

I can’t look right now, but Vandal was initially a custom shell and Thief was custom built by SekGen for a single use until the runner didn’t return it.