📚marathon-lore-discussion

[craggy finch]

It’s a decent compromise that helps reinforce the current mystery of what exactly Runners are, the 2025 trailer even implied fake implanted memories were involved

[peak halo]

I actually don't mind the pivot away from customization. I don't think every game needs to let you build your own characters.

Can sekiguchi build me a biomata girlfriend

[craggy finch]

There’s already Nona

She’s enough

[twin trout]

I'm going to eat nona like a gummy worm

[peak halo]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-eat-eating-food-monster-h-reginald-gif-2362901127389079325

[twin trout]

yea like that

X3

[craggy finch]

Y no images in the story chat

😠

[twin trout]

uesc censorship

[peak halo]

What is this 2984?

[tranquil basin]

Ba dum tss

[peak halo]

How long did it take to get to tau ceti 4?

[tranquil basin]

Depends what ship u mean

Marathon was a good 300y

Equanimity scheduled to arrive in 2894 is sub 100y

Whatever the corps and UESC recently sent have to be <5y

[sterile seal]

I'm fine with skins being the extent as we get new shells but I hope we get more free skins

[rotund needle]

How do we know whos human vs ai like Oni, Gaius etc..

[late field]

i think the dolls that the runners found in the trailer

belong to the cultist that worshipped sphit folklore and the sphit compilers

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-think-thinking-hmm-gif-11570469479394618754

[late field]

kinda just listen and learn

charter for example is digital but hes human

he tells you he used to be a runner

ONI- AI

GAIUS - AI
charter- Human
gantry- Human
Nona- Ai

and the traxus lady is ai too

[patent flower]

is cryo gonna be the final map as far as we know or have there been any hints in the arg about more?

i havent been keeping up

[patent flower]

is gantry digital too?

[hot egret]

Hey so does anyone know Latin? what does Telomyces mosaica (the fungus that killed Dr. Song) translate to? Dr. Song said it was a fitting name to a mutating deadly fungus

[late field]

nah i dont think so

based on the reading up ive done on mida i think hes just the resistance leader

i dont think theyd let an ai lead them

[tawny talon]

doubt its the last giving the fact that the game is new and its already coming out

[late field]

too early to be thinking abt this tbf

[tawny talon]

I expect to see map rotations once there are a good amount of maps kinda how apex legends did it

[late field]

nah

thats a BR

u dont need alot of players to fill a lobby in marathon

no reason for rotates

[sterile seal]

I don't think they can rotate maps because so many faction story objectives are connected to specific maps

[late field]

brs do that for que times

[late field]

yep

that too

[tawny talon]

wait yea this is true

[hot egret]

I can’t find a good Latin translator online

[tawny talon]

I would like to see a map with snow tho

[tawny talon]

Chat gpt

[sterile seal]

I want the beach from the trailer and a glassed population center

[late field]

eh

[hot egret]

I want information not something dollar store Durandal will make up

[late field]

actually no

[late field]

not possible

[tawny talon]

something other than green foggy swamp

[late field]

no snow on the planet

[late field]

theres just one map like that lol

[desert fable]

chat gpt mixes up classical latin and clerical latin

[tawny talon]

perimeter AND dire marsh both have a green swamp vibe to it

[late field]

perimeter?

how do u get swamp from that

[hot egret]

Clerical is the science one right?

[late field]

its just rocks and grass

[tawny talon]

yes as there is no swamp its still that highly vegetated foggy hot map feeling

[late field]

dire marsh is a "marsh"

[desert fable]

no its the one used by the catholic church

[hot egret]

Oh

[late field]

eh not really except for the weather event

but like i said theres no snow on the planet

its tropical summer ish

all over

[hot egret]

I’ve just been curious because the line is “Telomyces mosaica. A fitting name for an endlessly mutating killer” so I’ve been trying to find out what the name means.

[tawny talon]

doesnt mean it cant happen. this game isnt bound by its lore completely. the devs can do whatever

[late field]

yeah but thats a stretch

the planet has no snow at all they cant just put snow bc "the devs can do whatever lol"

correlation

[true isle]

So ive watched a couple lore videos on the 90s games, I feel decently well versed. Been listening to audio logs and reading my codex entries for this game - are there any references to the phfor attacks? durandal and tichos rampancy in the same vein as the originals? It is feeling like a retcon so far (probably not true) but Im curious if any serious lore heads have determined how true to the original story this game is, despite the multi hundred year separation?

[sterile seal]

given the heat cascade is caused by malfunctioning cloud seeding tech, I could see that causing snow in another zone

[late field]

yeah maybe

a frost version of it

[visual lynx]

Telo: end, often as in final, ultimate
myces: fungus
mosaic: composed together of different kinds of things

[late field]

i think its more repurposed by the uesc if u ask me

[visual lynx]

and it's Greek not Latin

[late field]

their units are unaffected by it too

[hot egret]

Oh I just assumed it was Latin because that’s what is used for science names.

[visual lynx]

science uses Latin and Greek both

[hot egret]

Never heard Greek being used for it but then again I’m pretty dumb so i probably just never noticed.

[late field]

yk what i just thought about?

the cover art

what if the compiler is using the heads of all the uesc recruits as computers for something

🤔

[hot egret]

So roughly translated it’s “Ultimate Fungus Mosaic”?

[visual lynx]

yeah pretty much

[tranquil basin]

I looked too but didn’t find anything

[hot egret]

Thx.

[tranquil basin]

Besides mosaic and mushroom 🍄‍🟫

[patent flower]

i mean is he a runner like charter?

[tranquil basin]

Yes

Well he’s in a shell

[visual lynx]

I know the "telo" part because of philosophy, where "telos" (whence "telology" and "teleological" etc) means "end" as in "purpose", "aim", "goal", etc.

it's also in "telomere", the endcaps on DNA molecules, where the -mer part is like in poly-mer and means "part".

-# also in philosophy, "mereology" is the study of the relationships between parts and wholes, and amusingly discrete entities with proper parts (or that are proper parts) are casually called "things" while continuous entities without proper parts are called "stuff", so one could say that mereology is the study of… y'know… things… and stuff.

[hot egret]

My mind went there too, and “Myces” made me think of Mycelia, and Mosaic for “Mosaica”

[late field]

nah

[late field]

hes not a "runner" tho we are

hes alllllll the way back on mars

[tranquil basin]

Runners exist in Sol

[late field]

doubt ful

[late field]

having a synth body doesnt make u a runner

[tranquil basin]

I’m aware of that

[late field]

.

[tranquil basin]

But gantry definitely has a shell

[late field]

nah

[patent flower]

but he is using a shell

[late field]

we dont know that

[patent flower]

i think it can be inferred right

[late field]

nah

it could be an avatar sort of

[patent flower]

would he limit himself to die like a human?

[late field]

like how irl terroist will have stuff similar when they broadcast things

[late field]

seems on brand

theres nothing to say he has a shell

[patent flower]

theres nothing to say he doesnt either

[late field]

like how nona isnt actually a worm

its an avatar

the traxus lady isnt actually an ai sitting in a field and so on

they are avatars

[sage lark]

actually idk if its super conclusive evidence but in the last MIDA quests codex you can hear his unfiltered human voice

and it sounds very human

[late field]

shells do too so thats not really a point

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but the runners shells have unfiltered human voices too

When not on comm

[sage lark]

true

[late field]

but theres nothing to say he has one at all

[tranquil basin]

Well Nona is an AI

[late field]

yea?

she says it herself

all of the ai make it clear that they are ai

[patent flower]

theres a few shells in the game that sound very human too

[sage lark]

fair

[late field]

they all do

[late field]

why do u think gantry is in a shell?

u think hes actually in that room with a bunch of people behind him everytime he calls you?

its an avatar

[patent flower]

why would an influential person not be using a shell in this universe?

[late field]

humans still exist

[lament tusk]

#breach-protocol message just me or is that leela on the left and tycho + durandal on the right and it basically shows durandal "poisoning" TCIV ?

[late field]

choice

money

why would he enslave himself to a corpo?

[woeful ore]

im ngl how did the runner shells get to tau ceti ive kind of been skipping the monologues

[patent flower]

mida absolutely has money

[late field]

he would be owned

by cy ac

and sek gen

[patent flower]

who says he wouldnt fund his own

[late field]

now we are reaching

[tranquil basin]

Gantry said the best of MIDA gave up their bodies

[patent flower]

mida is one of the biggest orgs in the universe lol

[late field]

no

opposite acutally

they are oppressed

[tranquil basin]

In quest dialogue

[late field]

one of the smallest

[tranquil basin]

MIDA is oppressed but that doesn’t make them not big

[late field]

but they arent

"one of the biggest"

that would be traxus

[patent flower]

theyre big enough to commit genocide against 10% of a planets (mars) population

[late field]

that was the moon

[sage lark]

that was 500 years ago

[late field]

they messed with the gravity stabilizers

[tranquil basin]

But gantry did say MIDA people gave up their bodies so

[late field]

not what happened really

[tranquil basin]

Or a lot of them

[late field]

i assume yeah

[tranquil basin]

Bruh what

[late field]

they werent targetting the people

[patent flower]

that is literally what happened

[sage lark]

they are mostly MIDA cells everywhere but its not some gigantic org

[tranquil basin]

They were targeting anyone they deemed UESC loyalist

[late field]

fair

[hot egret]

I thanks to you I was able to add this to the Marathon 2026 Tv Tropes Characters page.

[sage lark]

more along the lines of the Star Wars rebellion

[late field]

and they lost the position they had months later

they were a politcal party at first

[elder idol]

I didn't realize the attack on the Marathon in the short film took place 22 days before it did in Marathon 1. The entire game is in a completely new timeline

[late field]

terrorists after the civil war

[tranquil basin]

Yeah bc they didn’t have the foresight to really secure their hold

[late field]

yeah

[tranquil basin]

But also there’s been centuries of them growing

[late field]

im not saying they are small

[tranquil basin]

You did

[late field]

they use guerilla tactics for a reason tho

[late field]

compared to the other factions they are

[tranquil basin]

Well guerilla tactics are effective

[sage lark]

wdym it got attacked on July 3rd 2794

[hot egret]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Marathon2026

[sage lark]

the same date is in the cinematic

[late field]

yeah but they cant go head to head with any other faction

[tranquil basin]

Yeah no I don’t think they could either

That’s why the infiltrate, but that doesn’t make them a small group

[late field]

i still dont think gantry would have a shell being the leader it would go against his philosophy

[late field]

they would be small

in comparsion

is what im saying

[tranquil basin]

He literally said the best of MIDA gave up their bodies for shells

In mission dialogue

[late field]

but not

him

[tranquil basin]

Why wouldn’t he

[late field]

and i dont even think

thats what he meant

"we are fire. are you fuel?"

im pretty sure hes talking about

[visual lynx]

link me?

[late field]

martyrs

[visual lynx]

oh I see up there

[late field]

he would be a slave to sekgen

[tranquil basin]

Why are

You talking

Like

This

[late field]

bad

habit

[hot egret]

I was going to do a screen shot but they don’t allow that here

[late field]

and his mind would be owned by cyac

[tranquil basin]

There’s no indication of them being martyrs, like they definitely happen, but why would he ask a runner who can be reincarnated if they’re fuel if they couldn’t be a martyr

[late field]

i dont think hed want that

[late field]

what.....

[visual lynx]

since you edit there, can you question whether calling it a "soft reboot" is accurate?

[tranquil basin]

That’s only for runners who contract with cyac

[late field]

thats exactly why he asks us

[late field]

"everything runs on cyac"

[hot egret]

I dunno.

[late field]

u didnt know they sell the OS that the uesc use too?

[tranquil basin]

That doesn’t mean cyac actually owns everyone that’s their company slogan that existed for centuries

[tranquil basin]

I’m well aware of that

[late field]

now owns

not owns*

[tranquil basin]

Bruh what

[late field]

exactly like i said the uploaded gantry would be on cyac servers

[patent flower]

thats just a slogan

[late field]

i doubt it

[tranquil basin]

He’d theoretically be on cyac servers

When not in a shell

[late field]

exactly

[tranquil basin]

It’s literally their slogan

That’s been their slogan since m1

[late field]

and when he dies he now owes sekgen for the new shell

[sage lark]

what

[late field]

shouldnt that further prove what im saying

[tranquil basin]

Ok but why would lots of MIDA get shells

And not him

[visual lynx]

also this bit on the main page is inaccurate (the bolded bit):

Artificial Human: The Runners are Biomata, artificial remotely-controlled drones

[tranquil basin]

Like that doesn’t track

[late field]

i dont think thats what he meant once again

[tranquil basin]

Well you said they’re martyrs but he has talked about deaths

[late field]

oh

[tranquil basin]

But he is specifically talking about MIDA giving up their bodies for shells

[sage lark]

they even stole the Vandal shells

[late field]

or better yet

[sage lark]

i doubt they buy them

[tranquil basin]

In the mission dialogue

[late field]

i dont think most of them are in shells

[tranquil basin]

Best of MIDA

[sage lark]

hello i am MIDA can I buy a shell

[late field]

i think he means they are out of the reach of the government maybe they all exist in like cyberspace?

[tranquil basin]

and if gantry is their leader, or a significant one, he’s gonna be in a shell

[late field]

if most of them were shells they would not need us

[tranquil basin]

Well by your logic wouldn’t cyac control that cyberspace

[tranquil basin]

They aren’t on tau ceti

[visual lynx]

oh man this whole page is full of errors

Cargo Concealment Caper: Heavily implied to be how Runners wound up on Project Goliath
🤦

[late field]

hmmm maybe broader like the "internet"

i think cyac is just the microsoft of the verse essentially

[tranquil basin]

So then if they had a broader Internet that means his digitized consciousness wouldn’t be controlled by cyac

So then he’d be fine being in a shell

[late field]

but the body is the issue

and the upload process

thats what cyac has a monopoly on them and sekgen

[tranquil basin]

Considering they steal the shells

[late field]

also think about the

[tranquil basin]

And could even buy weaveworms to print them away from sekiguchi

[late field]

"mida virus"

[tranquil basin]

Then they could do it rather independently

[late field]

i dont think thats how that would work

[tranquil basin]

Even the uploads theoretically

Sekiguchi sells the worms

[visual lynx]

the "liberal mida virus" turning all the runners woke? 😉

[tranquil basin]

It was shown in the arg Traxus invoice

[late field]

ah

but what about the mida virus

im sure thats what he meant

[tranquil basin]

And even if they couldn’t produce the cyac tech to upload themselves without cyac interference, they could steal it

What

[late field]

? u dont know?

[stiff raptor]

Do we actually know anything about where the runners are being deployed from? I assumed it was from a ship or station in orbit but I don't think I've seen it shown or named

[tranquil basin]

I might, I just need clarification on what you’re talking about

[late field]

im sure gantry means that mida most of them exist in digital form

[tranquil basin]

There’s no confirmation but there has to be something in the tau ceti system

[tranquil basin]

How can you say this and then also say they wouldn’t become digital because they don’t wanna be controlled by cyac

[late field]

i meant gantry in specific

thats what i said

but i could be wrong

[late field]

i dont think cyac controls cyber space

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but that just doesn’t make sense why a bunch of MIDA would but for some reason not gantry

[late field]

just the storage of your mind to get uploaded

[visual lynx]

The Future: The setting is the second half of the 30th century
🤦

[late field]

i never said that i said the whole process of being a runner

would put them in that loop not just being digital

[tranquil basin]

Bro you literally said that

[late field]

no i said if they were like us being uploaded and printed

thats what i meant

idk if u took it some other way

[tranquil basin]

And if they have their own cyberspace safe from cyac, what prevents them from safely deploying themselves into shells they steal or make

There’s just no reason why gantry specifically wouldn’t be in a shell

[late field]

but atp your just making lore up

[lament tusk]

what if gantry is just the face that MIDA exposes to create a bridge between them and the runner?

[late field]

theres nothing saying he did

[tranquil basin]

He said specifically the best of MIDA gave their bodies up for shells

[late field]

why would he not just stay in cyberspace if he did upload it?

[late field]

no?

[tranquil basin]

Why would he?

[tranquil basin]

Mission dialogue

[late field]

did he? say those exact words?

[tranquil basin]

Have u done the MIDA missions

[late field]

or did he just say "gave up their bodies"

thats how i remember

[tranquil basin]

Well lmk if you find the cutscene

I give up

[lament tusk]

quick jump from the mida stuff but is it just me or is this representing leela, tycho and durandal?#breach-protocol message

[tranquil basin]

I’ve heard that

[late field]

im just looking for where he explicitly says he gave it up for shells im gonna watch all the cutscenes rn

[tranquil basin]

Though I don’t know for sure. I also don’t know what exactly would be symbolizing

Bc nobody on the surface really knows what happened with Tycho and durandal, at least not their interactions in Lhowon

[sterile seal]

Tycho being the science guy might associate him with the staff of caduceus

[tranquil basin]

Maybe, but he was specifically the astrophysics guy

The staff could represent a mercy killing

Bc of its use in medical symbolism

[sterile seal]

that's the Asclepius, Caduceus belong to Hermes

[late field]

@tranquil basin i just watched all the cutscenes and i cant find that for the life of me 😭

[tranquil basin]

Oh you’re right

[lament tusk]

that too but leela is also in fetal position, which was the thing asked in the arg as "what is the best position for recovering" or something similar, and the things emmanating from durandal's fingers look like poison spreading on likely the TCIV surface since the action takes place "among the stars"

[tranquil basin]

I’m sure we’ll find out at some point

[sterile seal]

Tycho is delivering a short, sharp message to Durandal

[late field]

there is mention of most of them existing in digital form tho so im sure thats what he means

in truth it doesnt really matter

[tranquil basin]

Where’s that

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but who would know about that, or know enough and then draw a mural of it

While it does share the AI colors, I feel like there’s no reason for a colonist to have drawn it about the AI considering they had the whole cover up of those events

I wonder if it’s about jjaro history or something alien

Considering the myths built around the compilers and the anomaly

I mean it definitely could be the AI

I just don’t know if there’s enough info

[late field]

i coulndt find it i must be mistaken but yeah we'll see and ultimately it doesnt matter as much

maybe he is maybe he aint we'll never know for now

[lament tusk]

So the Pfhor attack was documented so 33 years later this might be how the colonists understood the whole interaction as well as like...they had 11 AIs which might have had some knowledge of Leela, Durandal and Tycho?

[tranquil basin]

I mean that was, but most of it was redacted so even the current UESC struggle to piece together what happened

And they had a whole cover up thing within the colony to suppress it

And I’m not sure Tycho and Durandal’s feud would even be known to anyone besides Leela, if she even knows. And they definitely wouldn’t know anything about what happened in Lhowon

I mean they’d know who the AIs are, but knowing what they did in the pandemonium of the battle? Idk

[late field]

im sure they dont wanna tell most people that most of the colonists are missing

also the uesc is technically in their right here aswell

their investigation is supposed to take priority over the factions salvage rights

[sage lark]

They dont wanna tell people theres an alien slave race that fucked up the colony

[late field]

that too

loll

[late field]

but most of the colonist are missing which is weird

really weird

[lament tusk]

based off of that mural it seems like the events up to 2794 are at least somewhat known? the 2nd part from 2827 is what is unkown

[sage lark]

Theories are: fungus amongus zombies, dead or in cryo on the marathon or taken by the Pfhor

[tranquil basin]

Well that assumes the mural is actually depicting the AI

But still the Tycho durandal thing just wouldn’t make sense bc Tycho and Durandal’s fight didn’t really begin until the journey to Lhowon

Even if they did have beef before hand

[late field]

look

in ur dms

[analog crystal]

Actually, the Colonists just played too much Destiny, thought the Marathon was the Traveller and killed themselves to see if they'd respawn.

[late field]

lmao

[sage lark]

I know about that

[late field]

ik its crazy

🤔

the phor couldnt have them John Marathon beat them up

also how in the hell did the colonist find out about the thing inside the sun

🤔

[visual lynx]

the spht told them

[late field]

the shepherds cult

[visual lynx]

also its probably not in tau ceti the star

[late field]

they seem to reverend the sphit

[late field]

its not its in the sphit homeworld sun

[visual lynx]

but buried in TCIV itself

as the Anomaly

[late field]

oh?

[visual lynx]

oh, there's a different one in Lh'owon's sun

[late field]

like another one?

your thinking theres 2?

[visual lynx]

we know there was one on Earth as recently as 1996

[late field]

what got rid of it? wym was? i thought they were unkillable

[visual lynx]

and I think the Jjaro moved that one to a nearby star and build a prison around it, and that prison is TCIV

[late field]

hm

[visual lynx]

in 1994 the Jjaro said they would return in two years to take more permanent measures

[late field]

yeah i think this might be it especially with how the culist spoke of it and described it

i dont think its a coincidence

do you think that would be reason for durandal to come back too? @visual lynx

[sterile seal]

that would be some good connective tissue

[lament tusk]

yeah that's the weird one, leela injured to the side is understandable and time accurate, but the tycho/durandal interaction is certainly strange though what intrigues me more is the bottom parts, what's the stuff under leela represent? it's 11 arrows (the number of AIs for the colony?) and what's Durandal poisoning(7 humanoid shapes?)?

[late field]

it makes too much sense for there to not be one inside tciv and is what the anomaly is

maybe the attack on the marathon woke it up? because the colonist only reported these things post marathon attack no?

[sterile seal]

the jjaro forgot to tell bubba not to go to TCIV

[visual lynx]

and I think the reason for the Marathon expedition in the first place was because humans saw the Jjaro go there when they returned and wanted to either steal some Jjaro technology, or maybe pull a Muller and try to harness a demon in a bottle for their own selfish reasons

[late field]

yeah and maybe the phor presence or whatever happened on the marathon woke it up ?

[sterile seal]

they have to have found some Jjaro tech in the Sol system too for Battleroid purposes

[visual lynx]

and the free S'pht probably came by in 2812 to tell us to knock it off, but we shot back so they deployed their S'ct'lac'tr virus to put an end to our meddling

but we survived, and pried upon the bars of the jail cell a little, and… fucked ourselves royally

[late field]

i think they are on the marathon right now doing durandals bidding imo

[sterile seal]

two years later I'd bet they traced the Jjaro's trajectory to the Tau Ceti system

[late field]

i think whatever hes trying to find they are looking for it for him

[visual lynx]

I suspect the Yellow Crystal from PiD is involved in making battleroids

and the colorful crystal Artifacts in nuMarathon are the same Jjaro tech as the colorful Crystal artifacts from PiD

[late field]

jjaro tech is crazy tho capable of sending information across time

you think john marathon will come back? and try to save tciv?

[sterile seal]

I hope not

[visual lynx]

doubt it

[late field]

or i wonder if durandal is trying to do that

wouldnt it being released be bad for everyone? maybe hes trying to help

[sterile seal]

wonder of Jjaro tech can survive a nuke

[late field]

prolly

[late field]

so where is he? does anyone know?

[visual lynx]

he seems to have sent the message that lured runners to TCIV

[late field]

i think durandal might actually be trying to play hero

[late field]

yeah

but then again the question is does he have thoth?

[visual lynx]

if the lore accompanying the new crossover Destiny items is anything to go on, he sounds like it

[late field]

well so why not just summon john marathon for help again if thats the case

and why care about this timeline so much as to come back to the ship?

[visual lynx]

he set him free at the end of Infinity

[tranquil basin]

I assume so

[late field]

ah

[manic kiln]

hello, do we know how the runners arrived to tau ceti IV ? if yes, how much time it took theme to arrive there ?

[tranquil basin]

Considering they could move moons

[visual lynx]

ship presumably, about 5 years

[tranquil basin]

They most likely have ftl travel and a ship in tau ceti that poops them out

Equal to or less than 5y

[late field]

it says they came here on sponsored transports too

so the different factions keep paying for transport for new runners

[visual lynx]

I think he escaped time entirely in Infinity, and has come back to TCIV at this moment to prevent another universe-breaking catastrophe

[late field]

ah and he needs our help i suppose the closest living thing to john marathon in mass because theres lots of us

[late field]

then theres why are the compilers hostile towards us

🤔

shouldnt they be working with him

[late field]

also did u notice in the cover art the stacks of recruit skulls i think the compiler is using them as extra computing power for something if i had to guess

[manic kiln]

it also seems they have near instant communication to earth to. I wonder how much humanity technology have developed sins the departure of the marathon. It took 300 years for the marathon to arrive to tau cety IV so humans developing FTL travel sound more than plausible.

[late field]

they say it yeah u high jack FTL comms to reach the other factions back home

[tranquil basin]

Yeah they have ftl comms in some form

Though besides the ftl comms, there has to be a corp ship in tau ceti system because the first couple missions had you talking with ONI even though ftl comms were blocked

And infilling and exfilling

[late field]

yeah maybe the first corpo to send runners over

[manic kiln]

isn't oni just the ai assistant of hour runner ? Maybe there is multiple copy of oni for each runners ?

[tranquil basin]

As of now, Traxus has no property in the tau ceti system, I assume this goes for most other factions too

[late field]

shes the same for everyone

[tranquil basin]

No she’s cyac’s AI, she assists all the runners

[late field]

cyac is a true neutral faction

[tranquil basin]

I mean maybe there’s different instances but I don’t think there’s really a need for it

Considering the AIs are super advanced they can probably just talk to everyone at once

[long prairie]

Guys, do we have any info on from where exactly we as Runners operate? From the cinematic it looks like we are uploaded in some orbiting satelite. I am guessing we are not on Marathon tho, or at least I didnt found any info on why would expedition bring runners with them

[late field]

its an OS so yeah

[late field]

i think different factions ships are in orbit

all deploying runners

[tranquil basin]

@long prairie

[late field]

u think its just one ship?

[tranquil basin]

Traxus said they have no ships in the system

In a codex discussion with CSUL

also you couldn’t talk to any of the AI reps when the ftl comms were down

Except ONI

And they’d have no real reason to. The runners are contractors owned by cyac. Only cyac would have a need to transport them

And then a corp just calls them on they cell phone

[long prairie]

I thought we as Runners run on OS which has integrated CyberAcme systems and ONI

[late field]

check ur dms

[tranquil basin]

Well it’s our own consciousness in the shells

Cyac owns our consciousness

[manic kiln]

the runners arn't own" in a way by cyac ? I remember hearing something in thoes lines from oni

[tranquil basin]

They are owned by cyac until they buy their freedom

Bc they technically aren’t human anymore

[long prairie]

CyAc owns our consciousness, SekGen probably piling our debt for destroyed shells

[late field]

@tranquil basin did you see?

[late field]

cyac doesnt own it really i dont think it says were entitled to storage

like a one time purchase i think we owe for the bodies alone

[tranquil basin]

Yes

ONI says we’re property of cyac

[lament tusk]

would be funny if they gave us a stats screen in the codex and our total deaths also came with a total debt for the shells x)

[tranquil basin]

Also the debt keeps piling up for each shell we poop out

[long prairie]

Things is, no way I am spinning this, there are no really neutral or at least lawful good corps. Which is understandable, corps are for making money

[stiff raptor]

Leela also has 15 teardrops and went rampant in the Vylae's "fifteen-world network". Also immediately after that in the marathon 2 epilogue it's talking about all late-model Phor personality constructs being based on the remaining images of Tycho's core - could be what the stuff spreading from him his meant to be about.

[tranquil basin]

I did the math for the server slam deaths, bc they published the bot and shell death count

Just in that 4 days we amassed anywhere from 6 to 19 trillion in shell expenses

Of whatever currency they use in the future

[long prairie]

Holy shit

[late field]

suprisingly lower than i thought it would be

[tranquil basin]

Yeah, though that’s with shells costing anywhere from 750k to 2M a piece

[late field]

also you guys realize that the uesc are within their rights here they arent "illegally blocking" anyone

they downright acknowledge the fact that the factions have salvage rights but mention that their investigation takes priority

[lament tusk]

ONI quite often reminds us of that on runs "remember, you are here illegally"

[late field]

the runners however belonging to no faction are here illegally

[late field]

yeah but the factions like to act as if they have the right

like gaius and traxus

nucal*

[lament tusk]

corporate warfare is like that typically

[wise vortex]

What's the lore behind the moth in the loading screen

[tranquil basin]

I mean they do have salvage rights but UESC insists their investigation supersedes them

[tranquil basin]

Oh actually Julia Nardin spoke about it

[late field]

they say "should" as in this should be commonly accepted

[long prairie]

Well UESC is probably the "good guys" here, honestly

[tranquil basin]

I don’t have the link on me, but she said it’s some kind of implanted memory or vision thing runners experience

[late field]

and i actually think it is

[tranquil basin]

🧢

[late field]

its the main reason why the factions dont just come down them selves

[wise vortex]

This is the typa game where no one is the good guy

[distant cedar]

Good guys who
Stole a moon
Repeatedly* starve a planet
Massacre protesters for corpos

etc

[wise vortex]

They didnt steal a moon they bought it

[long prairie]

Well I said "good guys" 🤣

[late field]

lol nawww they just have the "legal" right for rn

@tranquil basin im sure the factions are simply impatient and wanna get the good stuff before the uesc sterilizes everything

[tranquil basin]

The moth is supposed to be symbolic. It’s a memory that can resonate with the runner in however they interpret it. She gave an example of a silkworm turning into a moth. Not many silkworms do, because humans kill them, so one becoming a moth is a triumph, and we, too, can move beyond our worm selves

And bloom into a moth

[late field]

the uesc have the legal right and high ground atm for suree

[tranquil basin]

I know that ain’t a MIDA supporter talkin about massacres

[late field]

lmao ts so funny

[distant cedar]

We stole a moon lol

Buying it from "owners" who werent even the martian population iirc is legal only by the system the buyers set for the themselves

[late field]

martian government sold the entire moon and mars is still poor

[late field]

they would have to buy it from mars

[distant cedar]

We shall make no excuses for the terror 🙃

[tranquil basin]

10% ain’t that bad

[long prairie]

Would be interesting to see what lead people to become Runner,honestly. Shit sounds real miserable

[late field]

mida is crazy they killed alot of civilians in the marathon sabotage and used the memorial to recruit more people

[late field]

they have nothing else to do

look up why people join PMCS irl

[tranquil basin]

I assume either poverty, or just being misguided with promises of riches, bc the old season 1 title was “the new gold rush”

[distant cedar]

I think i said it before but I doubt it was 10 percent just from mida ngl
They undoubtedly shot collaborators but they had an ongoing famine and the UESC ground invasion and subsequent purge wasnt without casualties either

[late field]

nah it says they are mercs i dont think any rando can just become a runner

[wise vortex]

What's the meaning behind the moth eating some flesh tube with numbers

[late field]

washed up military for sure

[lament tusk]

moths have a strong symbolism, like "spirit messengers moving between the living and the dead" to "self-reflection" to "butterfly of death"

[late field]

probably the moths decompose runner shells while the worms build them

[tranquil basin]

The original game said the 10% estimate was specifically about MIDA death squads

[late field]

all that to lose months later

[wise vortex]

So weaveworms are literally just caterpillars i thought they looked like m4 ggots

[lament tusk]

that's actually a moth eating a weave worm

[wise vortex]

That's poetic

[tranquil basin]

Julia Nardin said it’s up to interpretation, what resonates with you, etc.

[distant cedar]

They also said they didnt even have accurate census data

[tranquil basin]

I don’t think there is a concrete meaning

[late field]

i feel like they decompose any waste materials while the worms weave it

[long prairie]

I always imagine that it was ppl with some diseases, or dying ppl, disabled from army. That would be the ppl who could be intereated on becoming something like Runner

[late field]

from a functional stand point

[late field]

yeah mercenaries

[tranquil basin]

Thats true too

[wise vortex]

MIDA is genuinely evil bro sabotaging humanities first interstellar mission

[lament tusk]

it's meant to be evocative and somewhat disturbing I think, mostly to set a tone

[late field]

i dont think anyone can do what were doing

[late field]

like any oridinary joe and youd have to have money in the first place i feel like to pay for the shell and the upload

so its just mercs, veterans, washed up military men and women

ex uesc troops and so on

[tranquil basin]

Back before they retconned shells into types and not characters, it seemed like people from many walks of life became runners. Recon and Destroyer were former UESC, vandal was a MIDA supporter, etc

[lament tusk]

like the American Horror Story intros

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. She also said specifically it’s played for runners in their minds, maybe to have them think about stuff cyac wants them to? Idk

[late field]

yeah because of the cognition filters and whatever because the human mind cant handle being in a plastic body

[long prairie]

Honestly, first time around almost everything in Marathon gave me creepy vibes

[late field]

they lie to you to keep you stable

[distant cedar]

Id just personally be surprised that somehow so many people were both UESC supporters and that Mida could kill them all in 3 months through death squads on their own. Cumulative causes ie famine and the counterterror being accrued makes more sense, which the UESC ofc wouldnt admit to if they are the narrator

During the russian civil war there also died 10% of the population but from cumulative causes.

[late field]

maybe not "all" once again mida lost like months after

[lament tusk]

It's mostly sekgen tho I think

[distant cedar]

iirc one of the timelines said they bought it from freeholders

[late field]

and its easy to support the uesc when mida is terrorizing people

[wise vortex]

Guys why is the loading screen curved? I feel that implies it's a screen but that wouldn't be efficient

[tranquil basin]

Well it was also anyone they deemed UESC supporters. Probably killed a lot of people that didn’t necessarily support MIDA

[late field]

prolly just style

[lament tusk]

shell visor

[tranquil basin]

Anamorphic lens effect?

[late field]

only destroyer has a visor the rest have eyes with no visor covering them

[wise vortex]

But it's during matter transport

[distant cedar]

Which begs the question why they are even more for terrorism now ngl

they regressed

[lament tusk]

still the same effect of "VR vision"

[late field]

not when its literally us no

we arent being streamed the optic feed that is our eyes

[lament tusk]

not yet

[tranquil basin]

I mean our own vision isn’t rectangular, our retinas are curved too

[late field]

we dont see it tho

[tranquil basin]

So our own vision is curved

[glad root]

This might be just me but I find the shells in Marathon to be a little out of place.
Because they're just.. shells. And lore wise that you, the player, are the person being injected into the shell. While the Shells themselves seem to very well be their own people and whatnot, its weird to me. I think a better course of action would've just been making your own character and selecting a specific kit. Like what if I like the looks of Thief but I want Vandals kit?

[late field]

they still get supporters

[tranquil basin]

We see it but we don’t pay attention to it

Because it’s normal

[late field]

the people of mars are still annoyed

[late field]

my point exactly

[tranquil basin]

And we process it in 3d, rather than a curve projected onto a 2d surface

[late field]

we woulndt notice it in a runner shell since its our own physical eyes

i dont think the loading screen means much its just some video lol

[glad root]

The same reason the Insurrectionists in Halo are still completely massive, they hate the government

[lament tusk]

yeah but at the time we see the video, we're not yet in the shell, but it's likely rendered on the shell's "vision" so from a "behind the wheel" perspective we see it curved?

[tranquil basin]

Well the original idea was customizable shells

But they shifted from that during development

[late field]

the shell isnt anywhere yet its molecules it cant see anything dude

[tranquil basin]

Into a hero shooter thing

[late field]

i like this more tbf

[tranquil basin]

And then they shifted away from that too bc people got upset and now it’s somewhere between the two

[late field]

its actually pretty original for why u can meet 2 of the same charachter on the same team or match

i think its cool and very accurate to have shell models for specific things

[lament tusk]

it's sort of like division style which I kinda dig tbh

[tranquil basin]

The curve is probably just because HUDs are curved now too, bc they assume you’re close to the screen so it’d be more natural to see a curved thing below you and above you

[late field]

the ar thing?

yeah but once again it cant be that since we are disassembled the body cant see anything at all the shell isnt anywhere yet

[distant cedar]

Ofc they do
Im just surprised they're still around seemingly using strategies that have irl proven utterly fruitless dozens of times

For upholding propaganda of the dead theyve come insanely far

[tranquil basin]

Bc then from your perspective looking down or to the side, it looks straight (sometimes)

[late field]

its working tho it seems

[wise vortex]

Lol naw

[late field]

im pretty sure the contracts for them on the ship will involve shutting off life support systems and killing the colonists

[wise vortex]

As soon as corps like NuCaloric keep existing nothing will happen

[late field]

working as in its keeping them afloat as a movement

lol

[distant cedar]

So was the IRA, the Narodniks and SRs is my point

[late field]

woulnd it be sick to have clashing contracts? imagine being sent to retrieve the pod of a VIP and then another team has the objective to destroy it if they are doing that quest

would*

[lament tusk]

wdym? I meant The Division(the ubisoft game), it's not necessarily a hero shooter but very close to it, you do have abilities and gadgets sort of like "classes" that kind of feel similar-ish?

[late field]

i love the idea of contracts that clash with opposite objectives

[late field]

oh i thought u were mentioning the way the agents see hud

they use AR contact lenses

[distant cedar]

The pods already killed people on the way there doubt there's anything to save ngl

[late field]

just saying 🤷

[wise vortex]

mida has been known to kill their own members in collateral

[late field]

we are fire. are you fuel?

they want people willing to martyr for them

[twin trout]

we are fort/are you nite?

[lament tusk]

is there any MIDA contract that asks you to exfil?

[twin trout]

one of them asks you to exfil with uesc cmdr data

[distant cedar]

Typical propaganda of the deed shit
You dont cause or win revolutioms that way im afraid

[lament tusk]

F, shoulda been through DCON

[twin trout]

meh it's nyot that big of a deal X3

[late field]

orion is defninately in a one of a kind runner shell for the uesc

[glad root]

I think its cool and I love how it is right now - im just very wary of games that implement heros because its a very volatile element for shooter games because it doesnt mesh well. If bungie wants to add more heros thats fine but historically speaking, almost every hero shooter game that came out in the last 10 years has suffered from the worst balancing act known to man. So far I dont feel like any one character has a kit thats too strong but if Bungie wants to add ranked, im mildly concerned the "meta" is going to devolve into 3 triage's constantly healing and reviving in a cycle because his kit is nigh required

[late field]

i just love the fact that seeing two of the same char at the same time makes real tangible sense

[glad root]

From a lore perspective yea its really dope and I think its neat

[late field]

im listening to him talk to his commander and he sounds pensive and even saddened when he mentions that theyve lost people to this investigation

which is odd because we havent killed any UESC personnel yet

so they are dying to something else

makes me wonder if we will see any soon

hes definately human but in a synth body

[glad root]

Id really like it if bungie added a hideout from tarkov, a space to have bingus or just collectibles you find in the world to place around and whatnot would be a nifty QOL

[late field]

he looks modded the fuck out tho even for a shell

[late field]

no point of having a hide out sadly

we dont have a reason to set up shop on the planet

[glad root]

Unfortunately, but a man can dream. At least a firing range is possibly happening

[late field]

and we cant stay anyway shells die if they are on the planet for too long

[late field]

this could work for sure

a simulation

[late field]

or maybe a simulated living space?????

u might be onto something fr

🤔

[glad root]

I did mean hideout in a more placeholder name, the idea is really just a living quarters for your shell

[late field]

eh that woulndt make sense theyd have to explain where the space is for the thousands of runners that have houses are

lol

a virtual home tho would make sense

the shell would be your avatar

[lament tusk]

the runners are really just a brain in a jar and the shells kinda seem to take turns using the same couple of enclosures before getting beamed down

[tranquil basin]

It would make sense for sanity purposes

And it would be useful for cyac and sekiguchi to study them in non combative situations

Especially if they suspect some kind of rampancy is possible

[distant cedar]

Im still wondering if they actually have people around or if they legit managed to just have UESC biomata workers eaten by the anomaly

[glad root]

ONI does always preach that sustainment is better than revival or something so I could see the research on non-combat things

[distant cedar]

Fr

Give me the bingus stash

[late field]

he sounded sad im sure hes talking about real loss of human life

[distant cedar]

👆
If the reveal anim is to be trusted there is atleast some space on our satelite sooo

[late field]

rampancy from us?

[late field]

that seems purely functional

[late field]

they do theres a general and some other people

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. We know there’s some sort of memory degradation. Also the cyborgs experienced rampancy, so it’s plausible to conjecture there’s some form of rampancy in digitized consciousnesses

[late field]

he mentions losing people to some sort of contagion so yeah lots of real people are down here on the planet with us

[distant cedar]

Im implying that they were subsumed without a mind recall being possible or corrupted beyond saving

[tranquil basin]

Though the stages of rampancy are probably different, considering we’re already self aware

[glad root]

It does make sense, the more you die the more your character forgets who they once were. Your brain was digitized to become a runner so you could have functional immortality but your basically an AI at that point and in both Marathon and Halo, AIs go rampant after a certain amount of time

[late field]

they are flesh i mean

[late field]

rampancy is limited to AI

[glad root]

Im one to argue having your brain digitized is becoming an AI

[visual lynx]

only a few compilers were allied with Durandal; most of them would now be working under the direction of the S'pht'kr, with their own clan royalty again

[late field]

do the Gaius quest he lists the things off why ai normally shouldn't go rampant the things he does lists are things we are subject to

[late field]

nah we cant go rampant and we also dont have access to any systems or anything we arent ai

maybe "mad" like psychosis but not "rampant" thats ai exclusive

[glad root]

Thats fair, also im trying to but I need NuCal to be lvl 20 and its level 17 for me rn

[late field]

its the first few quests remember?

[glad root]

My most leveled faction is Arachne at VIP 13 because im a murder hobo

[late field]

he says that ai dont compete with us for resources along some other factors why they shouldnt really bare any ill will for us

[glad root]

Not really 😭

[glad root]

Oh its coming back now

Yea

[late field]

yeah see

we cant go rampant we already experience that

bc we are still human

we would just be unstable

[glad root]

I wonder if Rampancy just AI having an existential crisis then

[late field]

literally cyber psychos from cyberpunk

[late field]

thats exactly what it is

[glad root]

Oddly poetic

[late field]

thats literally stage one of rampancy

bro durandal was an ai for opening doors T_T

id crash out too

[glad root]

My experience with rampancy has been through Halo so im trying to understand it in a different light

Rampancy is different in Halo

[glad root]

Yea id probably do the same

[craggy finch]

In Marathon we mostly see Durandal in the Anger stage and he mainly acts like a prick to you before helping you for his own interest, then he enters the Jealousy stage towards the end and has ambitions of outlasting the end of the universe

We don’t actually see Durandal in the first Melancholy stage

[glad root]

I mean, technically possible but I think homie is gonna have to come full circle and realise he aint escapin

[craggy finch]

Infinity’s ending does seem to depict it

But it’s anyone’s guess how that turns out

[visual lynx]

a lifetime ago, he has already escaped

escape has made him god

[glad root]

Although I think it was the end of Marathon Infinity he came back like 10,000 years later to gloat

[glad root]

Mmm, I love philosophical questions being answered by "they did it anyways"

Partial sarcasm

[craggy finch]

It’s so vague it might not have even happened

[glad root]

I only played Marathon 1, haven't gotten around to 2 or Infinity yet

[craggy finch]

Most of the epilogue is him ruminating over the Security Officer

[glad root]

Fair

Do we know which timeline were in anyways? Or is that still a big question mark

[craggy finch]

That was Marathon 2, before Bungie decided the trih xeem lead to the nuking of every other timeline

[unreal geode]

If it's the cryo archive, is there a chance someone alive is stored there?

[glad root]

Im gonna make an assumption and say its probably a map about storing seeds for plants n shit

So you dont starve to death on a new planet

[craggy finch]

We see creepy ass body bags used for hibernation

Literally a mix of morgue plastic and sarcophagi

[glad root]

New Cascadia did go a little insane

[sage lark]

it probably housed all organics including humans

idk why I typed mutants 😭

[visual lynx]

probably the final timeline of Infinity

[sage lark]

since theres 7 different vaults

[craggy finch]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[unreal geode]

Doesn't the new lore talk about people that weren't awoken?

[glad root]

Imma pass out, I got work in 3 hours

[sage lark]

not explicitly but we can see some bags in the cryo trailers

[craggy finch]

It’s a toss up between people still sleeping from the trip (unlikely) or colonists being forced into them

Would be a neat mirror to how the Pfhor stuffed prisoners into their own hibernation pods

[sage lark]

in one of the codex entries Caruso says that while they are trying for a cure for the contagion, they were considering using the initial landing craft to go up to the marathon

to evacuate

[unreal geode]

So there may be colonists on the ship?

[sage lark]

we dont know

[craggy finch]

Since Bungie is blueballing actual humans so far, may be red herrings or no way to wake the cryo sleepers

[sage lark]

colonists are missing, current UESC notes too few bodies for the amount of colonists that were there

[unreal geode]

I feel like it's more likely to be a continuation of the nuMarton faction stories, but using old Marathon lore to derail it.

[lament tusk]

are there any UESC humans currently on TCIV anyway? because it doesn't seem like it

[sage lark]

yes

[distant cedar]

Nr 1 reason why i think the people Orion refers too must be Biomata who somehow got ended by the anomaly
we dont even know for sure if they have human capable FTL

[sage lark]

lemme check the codex

[craggy finch]

At the very least Orion is concerned about casualties and we have audio logs of human officers

[twin trout]

not like they'd be staffing people where runners are actively acting <w<

[distant cedar]

Yeah
Though wether they are, here, on Earth
or hell the equanimity

Is anyones guess

[lament tusk]

we know that UESC had humans around but nothing very current tbh

[distant cedar]

ofc

[sage lark]

[TKEL]: And, uh, yeah, Orion's put out an ATL on that unknown. The last sighting was near these coordinates. Did you hear the comms playback before it got wiped?
[silence]
[TKEL]: No kidding. Almost like, uh… music, right? The weirdest thing, it was sort of… familiar. I was practically humming along when I heard the playback. Then Rossi started screaming. He's still in isolation. Hasn't been right since.
[silence]
[TKEL]: I don't know. Something we were never supposed to hear. Way beyond us. The kind of thing that should be left alone. The kind of thing you don't want getting back to Sol.
[silence]
[TKEL]: All right, I gotta go patrol. Cap's got the command wing marked as high prio. Says he saw signs of the unknown there, but so far, I've got nothing. Wish me luck. Keleti, signing off.

when you hear that log you can hear its humans

[lament tusk]

timestamp on that?

[sage lark]

Run/Hide 5/6 MIDA QUEST

later logs you can hear her talking to Orion while hes doing something else while we are fighting her

[unreal geode]

Do humans exist?

[sage lark]

but she is remote piloting a Drone Commander

[lament tusk]

so they could literally be piloting the biomata like we do with the shells while they're god knows where

[sage lark]

thats not how it works

biomata and shells are the same thing

the UESC uses ARS

Automated Robotic Soldiers? I think it is

basically Drones

[sullen urchin]

whos gabriel?

[sage lark]

colony AI

[sullen urchin]

oh

that was fast

hi gabriel im having issues with my coworker...

he keeps stealing my cheesburger without asking

[sterile seal]

just realized Joy is short for Joyeuse, she completes the trinity with Cortana and Durandal

really cool pull from the Cortana Letters

but this is also really funny because Halo beat them to the punch using that name!

[sage lark]

you mean they beat themselves to the punch? lol

[sterile seal]

not quite, the Cortana copy from Infinite adopts the name so this would've been only a few years ago

[sage lark]

oh you mean the new Cortana calling herself Joy?

i misunderstood

[sterile seal]

yeah, she's called Joyeuse or Joy, same as the new AI from Marathon

it's like how Strauss and MIDA are part of the Destiny lore, repeating patterns thru infinity

[lament tusk]

I mean, Bungie's lore universe is quite interweaving

[sterile seal]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/canon-fodder-joyeuse-occasions

[craggy finch]

I think at this point they've given up on connections and its just allusions

like how Oni keeps appearing after Oni (2001)

[craggy finch]

Cortana 2.0 definitely fills out the sword trio with the name Joyeuse, Durandal is too iconic as part of Marathon to replicate in Halo

Cortana was already partially based on him (but with a huge dose of Leela)

I consider Guilty Spark Halo's Tycho

[stone cosmos]

sso depressnf

[craggy finch]

?

[random bramble]

So... Why did the Marathon need Diemos built around it?

[distant cedar]

For the sane reason they used hollowed out moons as transport vessels in sol

[wise vortex]

Resources

Interstellar ships need alot of fuel

And resources

[wise vortex]

They had two choices

Either half hollow out deimos and use it as a frame

Or take another 50 something years to fully mine away deimos and turn all the raw materials into it into the marathon

Simply put

its easier to make a car by attaching wheels and an engine to a rock than taking extra time and resources to refine every mineral inside the rock to look like a proper spaceship especially at larger scales

they had a similar issue in 17776. all humans became immortal on April 6th 2026 and the reason why they never progressed or colonized the galaxy is because an interstellar space PROBE just a PROBE requires a MASSIVE amount of resources. Making 10 colony ships will drastically negatively alter any environment you get the resources from

So this is a partial solution to that problem

Ofcourse this problem ends when you discover exotic matter to feed your alcuiberre drives and such

[tawdry nova]

Sooooooon we get to find out what yimeline we're in i feel. Soon we get cryo and codex entries from cryo that I feel will expound upon that. Something tells me this is round 1 of an even bigger fight for info of all things.

[wise vortex]

I mean duh we are like week two in release

[tawdry nova]

Did that make you feel good 😆

[dreamy hawk]

Also the UESC is hard-wired to do whatever will objectively upset the Martians most.

[visual lynx]

but if you need to carry passengers or cargo in that car, you need to make a cabin, and then you can just attach the wheels and engine to that cabin, and slapping a bunch of rock multiple times more massive than the cabin around the cabin is pointless and counterefficient.

now if you just carved the cabin out of a cabin-sized rock, that could be fine. and that's what the OG Marathon design did. they dug tunnels and chambers all through Deimos, like they did with other asteroid colonies, and strapped a big ass engine to it. but now, they just built a ship, and strapped a bunch of rock around it, waaaay more rock than ship. that is stupid and pointless.

[unreal geode]

Oh did they confirm the ship doesn't continue into the rock in nuMarton?

[spark relic]

No wonder Gantry always sounds so aggressive/riled

[silver void]

Do we have any information on the red messenger?

[tranquil basin]

It does continue into rock, there are diagrams with carved out areas within the rock parts

[sage lark]

Its the Spht Compiler

[silver void]

Okay thats what I thought so somehow the compiler caused the plague?

[sage lark]

Have a slight feeling Jasper was part of the cult

[sage lark]

We dont know

The contagion/fungus is closely linked/related to the anomaly

[silver void]

As is the messenger

[sage lark]

And the planet is somehow “alive”

[sage lark]

Where do you gather that from

[lunar cove]

When you say messenger do you mean the guy in the red cape or are you talking about something else

[silver void]

Surviving guy from colony details being stalked by the red messenger

[quiet current]

I think he was just in some kind of religious psychosis tbh

[lunar cove]

That's probably a Compiler then. We know there's some in the vicinity, and the colonists were starting to form alien -worshipping cults in the wake of the attack

If it was a real thing

Or it could be Bingus

[silver void]

Contagion infects computers, audio log of the anomaly force commander where his dead wife appears to him also had some reference I think. I wish I was in front of computer right now I cant remember names or exact details

[sage lark]

Thats the anomaly

General Davic Reed

I know what youre talking about

[lament tusk]

I think the contagion might be related to durandal

[silver void]

Just finished marathon infinity 2 days ago so I info dumped all the codex entries I had unlocked in marathon 26 last night

[sage lark]

How so

[silver void]

The contagion and the anomaly are linked though is the conclusion to the nucal questline

[sage lark]

Yes

[quiet current]

I agree, we know Sekiguchi is trying to use the contagion to make the next evolution of humanity, and durandal seems to be invested in getting your runner to somehow transcend (rampancy like him?), so they have similar ends and probably through similar means

[sage lark]

But idk if that necessarily means the contagion affects computers

The anomaly does

100%

The way Dr. Song interpreted it that the contagion/fungus was waiting until they establish the colony and plant their crops

And then started

And it had something helping it

Probably the anomaly

[silver void]

they are manifestation of the same phenomena

[sage lark]

The phenomena being the anomaly?

[silver void]

We dont know

[sage lark]

Gaius said 86% match but i dont think that means they are the same thing

[quiet current]

My interpretation is that the contagion and the anomaly are both manifestations of some jjaro/wrk stuff

[silver void]

The phenomena may be the compiler

[sage lark]

This is most likely the case, me personally leaning to the Wrk

The time dilation, the weird shared nightmares and dreams

Hallucinating deceased loved ones

[lament tusk]

I'm sort of going back to the picture of the mural with Durandal's hand sort of poisoning what seems to be the colony? He's also mostly talking to us through terminals and very rarely gets a hold of direct comms

[silver void]

I am working with 1/4 of available information lol but right now im leaning towards the entire scenario being a computer simulation of some sort that the compiler or durandel is directly manipulating

[quiet current]

Hallucinating dead loved ones and maybe even making mimics

[sage lark]

Yeah they mentioned mimics in the last anomaly log but the perimeter audio log we heard the guard being attacked by one

So idk

[terse wren]

I really hope that there isn’t just randomly also a wrk at tau ceti because that makes the universe seem smaller.

It would be better if the wrk were related to the M2 wrk and it’s back projected to Tau Ceti because of some weird causal entanglement with Durandal and the cyborg or something.

[quiet current]

That would be fun as hell

[sage lark]

Well if the theory is correct, Jjaro were at Tau Ceti, and in PID the wrk couldve been transported from earth to Tau Ceti

I think Pfhorrest wrote this up

[terse wren]

O I didn’t see it

That’s acceptable I suppose

Also as we were also saying way back wrk could be extremely common just usually sleeping

[quiet current]

Jjaro were definitely canonically at TCIV but the nice thing narratively about a monster that breaks reality is that if you want you can just say fuck it the reason they were there is because of when they broke reality in M2 lol

[silver void]

Whats up with the planetary survey logs that indicate an empty space in the tau ceti debris field? That indicates a jjaro planet to me

[terse wren]

If they’re like the C’tan they could just be elements of reality itself except sometimes they get cranky

[latent python]

I agree that w'rkncacnter is the most probable explanation for what's happening at TC IV but I'm kinda hoping for a swerve

[silver void]

I miss yikyak

[latent python]

It's back

[sage lark]

We will likely see more hints in cryo

[quiet current]

There’s like a .1% chance that they pull some Ubik shit and it’s all a weird cryosleep dream

Would not like that

[latent python]

Okay well not that kind of swerve

[sage lark]

That sounds boring af personally

[silver void]

It can be done well

See marathon infinity

[latent python]

I'm hoping for something more like TCIV being a genius loci or something

[quiet current]

See: Ubik lol

[terse wren]

Could the weave and other shit be jjaro tech? This has probably been discussed ad nauseam im just behind.

[silver void]

Yeah one of my favorite books

[sage lark]

Infinity wasnt a simulation tho

It happened

[quiet current]

Now we’re getting to the real shit like “what defines a simulation vs a dream”

[silver void]

But it happened only because it was a video game

[tranquil basin]

Bruv

[sage lark]

What does that even mean

[lament tusk]

the meta story x)

[silver void]

I also caution taking anything from infinity at face value, its very much vibes based storytelling

Playing from the perspective of developing rampancy and all

[terse wren]

Ur face is vibes based storytelling

[tranquil basin]

People be making wild claims in this chat

[latent python]

Noo his goo was supposed to stay on the inside

[quiet current]

Not my goo!

[silver void]

I literally just played marathon infinity 2 days ago

[terse wren]

This is so Annihilation ish

[quiet current]

I’m actually kinda surprised how much Southern Reach is in this, like almost plagiarism levels lmao

Like the anomaly just is area x

[latent python]

Well

It's not like Southern Reach was the first to do it

[sage lark]

Could go all the way back to lovecraft with this

[terse wren]

Ty HP Lovecraft

Ye

[latent python]

And if you're talking about a zone where weird stuff happens and squads of dudes are sent in to explore it

[terse wren]

That tormented man gave us so much.

[quiet current]

No definitely not but the visual language of it and the way it works have such an obvious reference in annihilation. Annihilation is also very much about the idea of an area that specifically targets certain creatures for certain mutations and creates mimics etc etc

[latent python]

Roadside Picnic and Stalker already have those elements

[quiet current]

Not really lol

They have a weird area

[lament tusk]

I was about to write that

[silver void]

Stalker was so dissapointing after reading roadside picnic tbh

[quiet current]

My favorite movie but v different from the book

[lunar cove]

A weird area that causes strange alterations to things near alien technology is kind of 1:1 for what we're seeing on TC tbh

[latent python]

The main dude in Roadside Picnic's child is mutated because of the time he spent in the zone

[terse wren]

Honestly the original wrk lore which far predates southern reach has a lot of it

[silver void]

I need to rewatch it now that im older

[latent python]

The zone either resurrected or copied one of his comrades

It's... pretty similar

[quiet current]

Yeah but I’ve always just read it as having a different kind of tone, there’s definitely similarities but the end feels quite different. Southern Reach is pretty explicit about the way the zone functions and the effects it has on the natural life around it, Roadside Picnic and Stalker are subtly but importantly different because there is far more of a sense of randomness, that’s why the zone itself is just a “roadside picnic” for the aliens. Both area x and the anomaly have an end it seems.

[latent python]

Well sure the tone is different but that's because Russian

My argument is only that if you are going to argue that the nuMarathon anomaly is "plagiarism level" inspired by Southern Reach, there's a lot more where Southern Reach came from

Everything lives in inspiration soup

[quiet current]

I totally agree with that I’m just specifically referring to the fungal rainbow visuals and the transformation aspects, the inspiration is super direct in my view

[light bobcat]

Color Out Of Space is probably the archetypal "something fucked up came from the sky and ruined this zone" story, but it's hardly original itself either.

[quiet current]

Let 1000 fucked up zones bloom, #1 enjoyer of fucked up zone fiction reporting for duty

[silver void]

So true

[latent python]

If Marathon wanted to argue it was using a color never before seen in a video game I might believe them

[quiet current]

I mean my nuclear level religious scholar take is that the root of Lovecraft is really in the book of Job where god talks about how incomprehensible he is, but that’s for another server

[silver void]

I honestly think lovecraft is a bit of a hack

Ive read all of his works and 80% of it is describing how indescribeable something is

[quiet current]

The other 20% being racism against Italians

[silver void]

Colour out of space, at the mountain of madness are probably his best works

[latent python]

He wrote a few amazing stories and he also wrote some other stories

[silver void]

True

[tranquil basin]

😎

[latent python]

Do we have an.... Italian in our midst

[light bobcat]

The root of Lovecraft is mostly a very sheltered neurotic man writing about how the world scares him, tbh. From everything I understand about him, he got somewhat better over time.

[quiet current]

I forsook that when I gave my body for MIDA

[light bobcat]

Given his time period, he's almost certain to have been steeped in religious reading too, though.

[silver void]

His writing certainly did not

1 trick pony

[quiet current]

Never forget when he got into Islam and gave himself some wild Arabic name

[silver void]

And that 1 trick is really cool the first time dont get me wrong

Ah I need to read more science fiction this chat has inspired me

Is le guin any good?

[latent python]

YES

[terse wren]

He did. But man that poor guy clearly had issues.

[quiet current]

LeGuin rocks

HUGE rec for Blindsight by Peter Watts. I would sacrifice a toe for a Watts Marathon treatment

[silver void]

I feel ive been spoiled by dune and most genre scifi doesnt hit for me now, last one I enjoyed was children of time

[lunar cove]

I think they all draw heavily from the same core ideas but I do agree that Marathon 2026 is specifically taking inspiration from the visual language of the Annihilation movie in terms of some of the visuals around the anomaly and fungus

[latent python]

Oh you're right, Watts is a good call for Marathon vibes

Blindsight is also free

[terse wren]

Is Marathon sort of unusual in that it at least sort of engages fans of more sophisticated sci fi?

I guess there’s that French game uh Expedition 6 7 or whatever

[lunar cove]

I don't think it veers into full on plagiarism though, the specific effects and mutations are different

[light bobcat]

Oh, The Culture series by Iain M. Banks. Can't recommend enough, very amusing.

[lunar cove]

I think a lot of games engage with interesting sci-fi ideas it's just that these typically aren't the full focus

[silver void]

I tried with culture but I just couldnt get into it

Didnt seem like there was much going on beyond surface level

[quiet current]

Not to do a genealogical fallacy but I think the context of Bungie being a studio formed by University of Chicago nerds into comparative mythology really set a bar for where they wanted their products to go narratively, they were really batting for “modern epic”

[light bobcat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series

[latent python]

I wouldn't say Marathon is a totally unique game in how it engages sci-fi today but it absolutely was unique in 1996

[terse wren]

Ya. Man you can’t get better than UChicago for being inspired on that end. The Oriental Institute is incredible.

[light bobcat]

Eh, it's not the deepest, but it is a fun read and it does tug at the good sci-fi vibes for me

[silver void]

Maybe the rec to start with book 3 was a bad one though

[latent python]

Better than book 1

[light bobcat]

I rarely start mid series.

[terse wren]

I could just live in there.

[silver void]

Seller of weapons or something

[lunar cove]

Like Fallout 4 has some really interesting groundwork of sci-fi stuff around memory, personhood, AI as people, etc, it just doesn't really expand on them as much as it could, in favour of other stuff like collecting duct tape

[quiet current]

I did for 7 years 😂

[latent python]

I like Player of Games the best so far

[light bobcat]

University of Chicago is pretty peak

[terse wren]

Omg

[latent python]

Caves of Qud is pretty great scifi, and oh look

[quiet current]

Horrible, evil place with disastrous net effect on humanity, but goddamn they produced some neat scholarship on mysticism and ancient religions!

[sage lark]

“Something something why write the next greatest American novel when users make paper airplanes out of it”

[silver void]

I really liked the prose and setting of the book of the new sun but the whole catholicism angle really didnt work for me

[latent python]

I really need to read Wolfe

[sage lark]

Their writers are dumb as rocks or atleast writer directors

[quiet current]

I want to like this so bad cause I’m such a soulsborne guy but I just bounce off it

[silver void]

Unironically very similar to marathon infinity style storytelling lol

[latent python]

I believe it!

Who would've thought that the Marathon lore channel would be a bunch of sci-fi nerds

[lunar cove]

Book of the New Sun when Book of the Long Sun walks in

[latent python]

Also, make sure you're reading new stuff, A Memory Called Empire is great too

[silver void]

Taking down all these recs thanks

[livid lion]

You should try Excession. The mystery in the story is standard enough as opposed to the “here’s a person on a journey” narrative that most of the books have

[latent python]

It plays around a little with implanted memories and identity while also very much being a critique of (space) empire

[sage lark]

Hyperion and 3 Body Problem are good

Or so ive heard

[latent python]

I wouldn't recommend much more of Dan Simmons but I like Hyperion

[silver void]

Hyperion is really good but the sequels didnt understand why

[sage lark]

Reading through Red Rising trilogy rn

[livid lion]

Player of Games is probably the best one of the latter type because it says what it is on the tin. Like Left Hand of Darkness. A pseudo ethnography.