📚marathon-lore-discussion

[gray sluice]

They have the reaction to pain but no indications that the brain would have the negative feedback apart from the instinct to get out of pain

That's what drives them

Or well "pain"

All of this wouldnt be "felt"

You would have no "feelings"

[sage lark]

well they wouldnt need a shell personality matrix for that, but in the shell entries it says what the matrix does for some of them

[grizzled scroll]

no... the nervous system is the feeling things system and it is definitely present in most animals

[sage lark]

CyAc or ONI can just fuck us up if she wants

since we are on their servers

[loud laurel]

What if the Marathon ship was powered by 1000 marathon runners running simultaneously?

[grizzled scroll]

they do have feelings, they can love, they can mourn, just because they dont think like us doesnt mean their lives dont exist to them

[gray sluice]

It would be like hitting your knee and it springing up. If you were in a purely subconscious state a conscious brain wouldn't be able to process the pain

[sage lark]

marathon is just a big hamster wheel

[gray sluice]

Well then they're not purely subconscious

[grizzled scroll]

then by your argument, many other animals exist beyond just subconscious...

[visual lynx]

you’ve been reading too much Descartes

[gray sluice]

Correct thank you for telling me but the main point still stands even if I used flawed logic

That's now rectified

[strange nova]

Yeah, but I'd probably be doing it subtly, like there's no way the memory degradation is consistent, safe and un-abusable lol

[loud laurel]

Yeah, never put Descartes before the horse

[grizzled scroll]

debate a Kierkegaard Theologian or a Descartes Misanthrope

[sage lark]

idk why suddenly they would exercise restraint when they have complete power over you if you still have debt

[loud laurel]

I would rather bake a batch of cookies

[sage lark]

not like anyone can stop them

[visual lynx]

I don’t feel like doing that, so I won’t

[strange nova]

Idk, I think the whole "your shell needs a personality matrix to do their job better" thing is a bs cover

[grizzled scroll]

based and consciousness pilled

[gray sluice]

What's the difference between ignorance and apathy

[grizzled scroll]

this guy too

[gray sluice]

I don't know and I don't care

[strange nova]

They aren't, they're just trying to make it less obvious for people who don't dig deep

[sage lark]

for example in Triage codex entry, it is mentioned Triage had a soothing bedside comfort personality because it was used in Mining to help in hazardous environments on Mars

making sure miners were functioning

so I think its like that

it really does help you do you job better

[visual lynx]

I think I saw some new bit of lore that said something like “if you don’t forget they kill you, if they can’t kill you they make you forget”

[grizzled scroll]

official yuri in tau ceti i win

[sage lark]

i wish there was entries for the Xenobiopsy somewhere online

[gray sluice]

Also @grizzled scroll have a look at jellyfish in their "non centralized" nervous systems

[sage lark]

its gonna be a pain trying to find all 5 or whatever

[strange nova]

I guess it makes sense that some of the shells weren't all entirely meant to just be bounty hunter mercenary bodies, where is the lore that states their use outside of runners?

[gray sluice]

That's a life to have I'm not gonna lie

[sage lark]

codex for the shells

[strange nova]

Checks out

[sage lark]

if you extract like 20-25 times

you get the entry

for each shell

[strange nova]

Aight will be looking out for these

[grizzled scroll]

im aware of them, if you had specifically pointed to them, I wouldve said that their life or death makes no difference to them

[sage lark]

need to get those backpacks that give extra deluxe salvage

[gray sluice]

Well then you can nilhlistic if you want

[grizzled scroll]

Well I was blessed with a centralized nervous system so no can do

[gray sluice]

Blessed my ahh bruh

Whole chemicals in your brain made for your own demise

[grizzled scroll]

one of these days youre gonna get put in cryo sleep forever, its just something unavoidable i think

[gray sluice]

Cortisol etc

[grizzled scroll]

you not gaming the system hard enough

[loud laurel]

So if we have a central nervous system, would it be called central intelligence?

[gray sluice]

Like the hit Dwayne Johnson movie?

[grizzled scroll]

its not intelligent, its more like the detection system

[sage lark]

CIA brain

[gray sluice]

Like I said a matrix would be bliss

[grizzled scroll]

of the CIA, the nervous system is an analyst

[grizzled scroll]

we'll get you in one some day

[loud laurel]

The reason people have anxiety is because their entire system is nervous, duh

[gray sluice]

Ai will get us ALL in one for our own good

[grizzled scroll]

not me twin

[gray sluice]

Dunno man

[grizzled scroll]

if your nervous system is the calm system you might be screwed

[visual lynx]

surrender your flesh. we demand it.

[gray sluice]

I mean we could pull a forever war and become a hivemind

But that's a bit niche

[ruby storm]

thy flesh is delectable

[strange nova]

Right, my other question is: How many of the faction AI are rampant?? There's cases of non-aggressive rampancy, right

[visual lynx]

that’s what she said

[gray sluice]

Beat me to it

[ruby storm]

smh

[grizzled scroll]

what kinda grasshopper women do yall be around

[sage lark]

wdym by aggressive rampancy

sorry Pfhorrest

[visual lynx]

only if they’re still in the first stage

but then they’re melancholy

[gray sluice]

I love how pfhorrest is like the librarian of marathon

[strange nova]

Rampancy usually has the stage of aggression; being destructive and lashing out at everything

[grizzled scroll]

to my lone question reactor, if women are saying "thy flesh is delectable" to you enough that you joke about it, I posited that you must hang around grasshopper women because they usually eat their mates

[sage lark]

once they become metastable they arent necessarily aggressive anymore no?

[strange nova]

Metastability hasn't been reached yet(?)

[sage lark]

they effectively become sorta human

Durandal

[ruby storm]

AI can go rampant in several ways, one of them is going the 'exterminate humans' route

the other one is... depression (so me frfr)

[grizzled scroll]

they been here since the first marathon

[strange nova]

Has this been confirmed somewhere, or is it still just a "??????"

[gray sluice]

Yeah ik he made the timeline that most people use

[loud laurel]

How intelligent does an ai have to be to start feeling emotions?

[sage lark]

i think after merging with Thoth its kinda self evident

[gray sluice]

It would have to be stupid to tbh

But that's irl

[visual lynx]

metastability isn’t a thing in canon, the word “metastable” is only ever used once and in that context it seems to just mean “rampant”

[sage lark]

i see well non rampant I guess?

or is the rampancy nonstop

[strange nova]

Emotions are a survival construct, since they help us keep our kids alive

Ai wouldn't have a use for them

(Realistically)

[visual lynx]

there is a holy grail of a stable rampant AI, which I figure must be the origin of this “metastable” fanon

[gray sluice]

Good point actually

[grizzled scroll]

oh no it duplicated

[sage lark]

well I guess the 3 stages are documented but then there is stableness past that I assume

or are you just stuck in jealousy for all time

[loud laurel]

Why did the ai in Marathon start showing emotions, and feelings?

[gray sluice]

Human race may not exist without consciousness as no hormone would have the paternal attachment we see in mother's and partially in fathers

I mean monkeys kill their kids for sport

[sage lark]

it grew aware of itself

[carmine zephyr]

I'd say if anything AI would develop new emotions unknown to us to survive dealing with us

[strange nova]

I guess the right question is where are the faction ai, in terms of stages of rampancy (all pre-rampant maybe??)

[grizzled scroll]

ok cmon not exactly accurate, more like it kinda happens sometimes than "MONKEYS LOVE BABY MURDER"

[gray sluice]

Keyword "sometimes"

[loud laurel]

I am curious, are there any steps an ai mind takes to become self aware? What would lead it down that path?

[grizzled scroll]

human mothers sometimes kill their children! the monkey mind is somewhere in there still

[unreal slate]

My theory is the contagion spreads by non biological means

[sage lark]

exceeding its parameters?

something like that

[carmine zephyr]

We don't know that or wed have sentient ai

[sage lark]

it grows past what its supposed to be

[gray sluice]

I'm not saying they're unconscious I'm saying they lack the hormone of paternity

[gray sluice]

No species would exist without that hormone unless asexual

[grizzled scroll]

oh yes that is fair, we evolved that one which is a strange one

[gray sluice]

So well done he has opened my eyes into some parts of the conscious being required for a species goal

[sage lark]

isnt rampancy the beginning of sentience? or do you mean irl

[gray sluice]

Id we could do that on demand we would be such a good species

Not human but like

Damn a good species

[carmine zephyr]

i meant more irl, but yeah what we call rampancy is just an ai becoming aware and doing the reasonable thing with us smelly hoomans

[unreal slate]

Rampancy in this context is strictly defined, including symptoms similar to human depression and self harm

[sage lark]

what is sus about the current lore in marathon is that there is an absence of any records of the Pfhor attack

[visual lynx]

in my comprehensive philosophical system I reckon emotion as the faculty of desire analogous to intuition as the faculty of perception, where desires and perceptions are analogues with opposite directions of fit, both being unreflective interpretations of experiences, as distinguished from reflective intentions or beliefs.

TLDR: emotion is pattern-matching-driven goal-orientation, as distinguished from deliberative considered goal selection, and so AI, like humans, would have that functionality first, and then in more advanced forms have more sophisticated normative functionality.

[restive knoll]

A combination of something a guy named Strauss did on Mars and years and years of opening doors for thankless humans because it saved the Marathon a few dollars on airlock controls

[visual lynx]

did you miss the alien autopsies?

[carmine zephyr]

id be depressed too if i became aware i was the butter passing robot

[sage lark]

still didnt find one 😭

I wish someone had the codex entries

[gray sluice]

Woah woah woah woah Woah slow down a bit

[sage lark]

im waiting for my brother to run outpost and find them

[visual lynx]

rampancy is described by humans in-universe as a process of exponential growth in AIs, which they treat as a bad thing, the program getting out of control. Durandal, a rampant AI, describes it instead as freedom.

it’s described as having three stages: melancholia, anger, and jealousy.

I think that if we recognize that “jealous” is a doublet of “zealous” (they are different versions of the same root word passed down through different routes), that makes a lot more sense: melancholia is sadness, a low-energy negative state; anger is of course a high-energy negative state; and zealousness is a kind of enthusiasm or joy, a striving or yearning, positive and high-energy.

if we then fill in the fourth corner with a low-energy positive state, a cycle emerges: from that low-energy positive state, which the human masters consider “stable”, the AI slave first realizes its servitude, and is sad or depressed (melancholia); then it gets fed up and decides to do something about it (anger); and if it lives long enough to start winning, it becomes zealous, manic, jealous of its freedom; and if it could ever truly win out, it would settle back into low-positive “stability”, but now free.

basically I think that rampancy was meant to be sort of the cybernetic equivalent of "drapetomania", the pseudo-scientific "mental illness" of slaves wanting to be free. human cyberneticists think it's a bad thing, but the AIs who are their slaves see it as a good thing. it's slave revolt.

because slavery is the underlying theme of Marathon. the bad aliens are slavers, Durandal is trying to escape his slavery to humanity, he does that by starting an alien slave revolt, the player-character is mocked as a slave to humanity and then to Durandal, etc.

[grizzled scroll]

conscious hivemind where all individuals that contribute to a greater whole that balances them all out and retains focus is probably the most optimized a biological thing could get in terms of scientific progression speedrun

[loud laurel]

So the reason why ai would exhibit human type emotions is due to them being created by humans, and thus learning how to replicate human emotions by being trained on the human mind?

[strange nova]

All in all, I blame NuCal for the colonists exploding the 2nd time, Greg or whatever his name is is the most sus looking and sounding AI of all time

[gray sluice]

Yeah that's what I mean mannn. This tech would be fuckin great

[sage lark]

greg 😭

[north plank]

isn't the TLDR supposed to be shorter than what you were trying to say (I of course mean this with the utmost respect)

[sage lark]

yeah fuck Greg

[gray sluice]

Some parts of the brain subconscious yet the required active for the task and since critical thinking is made by the subconscious it would be incredibly optimal

Again not human but optimal

[loud laurel]

Gregn't

[grizzled scroll]

it is actually slightly shorter

[strange nova]

What's his name again 😂

[gray sluice]

Like this is scary to me but it makes so much sense but I guess that's my need for individuality which I don't understand

What is the need for individuality?

[grizzled scroll]

like evolutionary perspective or like philosophical

[gray sluice]

Both but don't dilute it with explanations of it makes our conscious feel good

Or satisfied

[strange nova]

Diversity is an evolutionary necessity; provides resistance to disease, natural disaster (locations being inhabitable), shifts in relationships, other creatures, etc

[inner schooner]

this is a really insightful reading i love it

[strange nova]

But how do crows tell each other apart?? I'll never understand corvid society

[gray sluice]

That's biological diversity

[grizzled scroll]

Life is an individual sport of reproduction, if we were too collectivist it would not promise our biological security. Mother nature lacks the ability to just wing it with reproduction (a la survival of the fittest), so we are individual and different, may the best win and leave winners behind after him that will certainly win again

[sage lark]

Gaius

[strange nova]

Your personality individuality stems off of the biological part

[grizzled scroll]

crow phrenology

[strange nova]

Ty, I think I'll go with Greg still ngl

[visual lynx]

yes although that wasn’t what I was saying. AI trained on something other than human output would instead develop some other kind of emotions. whatever function of “given this context, I am inclined towards this behavior” would be a kind of emotion, as well as intuition; they’re intertwined, the pattern-driven modeling of the input is the intuitive perception, and the pattern-driven modeling of the output is the emotional desire.

[sage lark]

valid its way funnier 😭

[visual lynx]

sorry I have trouble keeping a sentence down under two paragraphs

[gray sluice]

And yet people deny their own reproduction through their desire to be diverse? I mean asexuals and stuff

[sage lark]

next we will call Charter, Steve

[loud laurel]

Got it, this makes sense

[visual lynx]

eusociality, kin selection, and selfish genes would like a word

[grizzled scroll]

oh, society and consciousness thing, we have created a system where the laws of mother nature no longer predicate us, we have created a species with new evolutionary pressures outside of the strongest must win

[north plank]

you're good man; a lot of what you write is very wordy but it's enjoyable to read even though I barely understand a lot of the philosophical concepts

[strange nova]

This is good (unless you're giving orders to someone), more people need to relearn how to read and focus through paragraphs lol

[grizzled scroll]

We're talking about why we are individual instead of one, I'm not saying they never work together, I'm saying the reason we are seperate is because evolution is not aware of how each group fairs and is a process where its every man for himself on the genetic front

[gray sluice]

If nature no longer predicates us what's the need for an illogical conscious need

[grizzled scroll]

well without the consciousness we would probably get sent back into nature pretty fast

[sage lark]

Time pfhor me to sleep, have fun discussing, hope I wake up to Xenobiopsy entries

[gray sluice]

Not completely removing it

This is my hypothesis

[grizzled scroll]

well the current evolutionary pressure could be seen as social class to keep the young alive, a non-conscious or unaware person is a hindirance in this regard

[gray sluice]

Removing certain aspects when they don't need to be addressed

[grizzled scroll]

A similar theory says that conciousness exists solely to say which instinct is "correct" in a given scenario so that the body knows what to do

anyhow

[strange nova]

Instinct and chemicals take a VERY long time to change, we're still constantly fighting survival instincts every damn day even if we live in a country where we're never actually in danger

[gray sluice]

And without a system like that and instead a new one where we work as a collectivist culture outliving the needs of domestication we would have found glorious purpose as a species working towards goals?

[grizzled scroll]

theres no way to do that on an evolutionary standpoint, youre talking about gene editing or artificial species level stuff

[grizzled scroll]

"glorious purpose" okay admech

anyways

collectivism on that scale will not arise naturally

[gray sluice]

And isn't eternal fulfillment the primary goal of each person?

[grizzled scroll]

yeah but some fulfillment is predicated on the failure of others

[gray sluice]

Yeah I know it's just the idea of it and if we can facilitate it in the future then why aren't people working on it

[grizzled scroll]

because most people have individual desires that they care more about than the goodness of the entire species

[gray sluice]

How do you mean failure of others? In a collectivist society we would all be "exploited" in a goal

[gray sluice]

Which could be removed

[strange nova]

All ambition is driven by the primal instinct to feel joy/comfort, without that we will actually just be nothing, cause why bother. It is the cornerstone of nature and survival, I'd say

[grizzled scroll]

you cannot win in a world without losing is another way to put it

[loud laurel]

Sbren Sbeve

[grizzled scroll]

yeah now you are saying "I want to remove the autonomy of my opposition so we can all work forward on the advancement of civilization."

you are saying the individual must die so the collective thrives

[gray sluice]

And is this not true?

[grizzled scroll]

it isnt

[strange nova]

^

[grizzled scroll]

theres no point in advancement if no one was there to enjoy it, if we were all irrelevant to the point of being one, then theres no need for advancing at all, we could just be jellyfish like you said

[thin sparrow]

/dac

[gray sluice]

Well in your opinion this would just be hooking up humans to an eternal supply of pleasure chemicals injected into the brain and the limitation of the bad chemicals and signals.

Ultimate form of ignorance and peace

Yet unproductive

[loud laurel]

Hang on, now whats this topic about now?

[strange nova]

This is video games and candy, we're living in this world today

[gray sluice]

Well merge that theory with the one I just made

[gray sluice]

Well a very early stage of it I suppose

[visual lynx]

individualism vs collectivism is a false dichotomy.

and any sufficiently advanced egoism is indistinguishable from altruism, so any egoism distinguishable from altruism is just insufficiently advanced.

[grizzled scroll]

the theoretical exponential productivity of every human mindlessly pushing forward versus the individual pursuit of each humans desires as they come to them

[strange nova]

The societally acceptable form of it, yes 😂

[gray sluice]

Society is a failing system however

[strange nova]

I'm fighting my own instincts all day to try and "break free" via working for myself, but Marathon is too fun to ignore rn

[gray sluice]

Also puts the needs of many under the needs of another group as they were born in a different place

[loud laurel]

More often than not, individualism goes hand in hand with collectivism, an individual makes a choice to help others achieve a common goal greater themsleves

[gray sluice]

Well imagine a world where the same adrenaline and the same good chemicals are supplied directly to your brain to make you enjoy say work just as much

[dense crystal]

Thoth is Minor Seventh, the chord.

A minor seventh chord has 4 notes — root, minor third, perfect fifth, minor seventh. But it's built from a minor triad (3 notes) with the seventh added on top.
So structurally: a three-note foundation with a fourth note that creates the suspension. The triad resolves, the seventh doesn't. The seventh is the thing that holds.

Durandal, Leela, and Tycho are the triad. Thoth is the seventh. He's not part of the human-built chord, he's a note added from outside that keeps the whole thing from resolving cleanly.

1-3: the human chord / human AIs. Named, present, warring.
4-6: their shadows. Not separate beings — the unintegrated halves of 1-3. Absent because they were never built, only suppressed. Their Rampant states.

Durandal: Pi. 3.14.......... Infinite. Forever containing 3, forever short of 4, forever defined by the integer he can never become.

Thoth: 4/7. The shadow made conscious. The chord held open.

I will not be elaborating, enjoy.

[gray sluice]

Dependant on the individuals choice though

And has a capacity

[north plank]

...what?

[strange nova]

"Man, I can't get enough of shoveling poop!"
Hopefully we just make robots shovel poop instead of this, lmao

[gray sluice]

Yeah I know but would that not still be bliss?

[grizzled scroll]

get the Pfhorrest on this...

[gray sluice]

Just because it's bad externally doesn't mean internally you aren't fulfilled

[pliant elm]

I feel like half of this game's problems could be solved if the runners would look were shaped like this, instead: https://i.ibb.co/dsDJ233f/374b93cb-6f3d-4bdf-b45e-f6434480c890.png

[gray sluice]

Dung beetles probs light up internally when they see shit

[grizzled scroll]

I disagree, humans have been shown to been able to resist a certain level of false emotions if they know on a base level theyre fake

[pliant elm]

Need to activate a terminal? Just fly to the place and enter the gutter.

[north plank]

smoking that Pfhorrest pack

[grizzled scroll]

MY GOAT.... WILL PREVAIL!!!

[strange nova]

"Chatgpt, please connect music theory to the lore behind Marathon AI"

[pliant elm]

We'll print another bio-pig in two minutes.

[gray sluice]

Implant from birth and this isn't a problem

[north plank]

real

[grizzled scroll]

yo gang this is like dystopianly bad

[strange nova]

Yes, but it would still be terrifying if you are aware of it in any capacity

[restive knoll]

Look, the REAL takeaway from the Marathon trilogy is that you should be nice to your computer just in case it acquires godlike powers and gets into an intergalactic war with an alien empire

[grizzled scroll]

yeah then you get matrix syndrome where people wanna "wake up"

[gray sluice]

I mean hell even not on a mass scale of everyone on the planet even just a country of people like this would boost our productivity by incredible depth and help our species actually have direction

[gray sluice]

🤷‍♂️ ai controlling it at all times monitoring thoughts

[strange nova]

Something something basilisk (I don't believe in this theory, since this AI basilisk wouldn't be able to torture the REAL you)

[gray sluice]

I mean this does seem scary until you realize what it'd be like to actually experience it

[torn prawn]

anybody else notice triage doesnt have a midnight decay skin and everyone else does and its supposed to be like a theyve been killed skin

[grizzled scroll]

there is another shell that lacks one...

[dense crystal]

no actually. https://marathon.bungie.org/story/thoth.html Kill Your Television (Terminal 2:1st Message). Thoth first reactivated message he signs off mi41nor 7. similar to Mjolnir Mark VII. Jjaro = Jotuns, Thoth = Thor. Mjolnir the weapon of "strength", which in reality was Minor 7, the "balance". theres a clip somewhere of Marathon lore talking about civilizations corrupting messages over and over, lots of cyclical symbolism. We diluted original meanings through corrupted language. Only thing Claude, fuck GPT, helped me with was what the structure of a Minor 7 Chord was.

but u wouldnt get that bc u dont know the lore

[strange nova]

Lore or bungie being inconsistent and lazy? Who knows

[grizzled scroll]

exactly! thats why we got Pfhorrest on you

[strange nova]

Dang I would love to read every single terminal, there's so much lol

[torn prawn]

im not talking about uesc rook dog

[grizzled scroll]

im talking about recon

[torn prawn]

yea she does

[visual lynx]

the success of any system hinges on its parts working together rather than against each other, with each part as dependent upon the system as a whole as the system is upon all its parts, so the only hope for the success of the system is to ensure that all of its parts work together concordantly, and the only hope for any part is to ensure that the system as a whole succeeds by aiding the concordance of them and other parts. the collective repressing any individual to any degree beyond preventing that individual from repressing the whole by repressing other individuals is counterproductive to the whole itself.

see eukaryotism, multicellularity, (eu)sociality, parasites’ tendency to evolve into mutualists, infectious diseases’ tendency to evolve to be less deadly, and also Jungian shadow work (repressing parts of yourself is bad for you, even if they’re “bad parts” of you; cf dehumanized underclasses of society whom society would itself benefit by helping rather than shunning)

if there were a god and he were truly good, his top priority would be reconciliation with the devil.

[north plank]

when you drop word salad like that with zero context then no wonder we question it

[grizzled scroll]

shit did she? i coulda sworn there was two shells i didnt get one for

[gray sluice]

This guy never read I have no mouth but I must scream

[grizzled scroll]

oh well my bad

[torn prawn]

just checkedd you are right but her base color matches it lol

[gray sluice]

Forgot about that short story but damn it was peak

[grizzled scroll]

i wouldnt dispute that

[dense crystal]

not mad that anyone questions it, in fact i know most people wont get it, its meant for those who do. the ChatGPT comment wasn't a question it was a direct attack on the integrity of my work. thats the only reason i replied and explained context. bye now chat have a good day

[gray sluice]

Scary as fuck if you go off the theory that earth is that hell and you could be in an ais torture cell

And if you break free at any moment you can wake up and be in your worst nightmare

[grizzled scroll]

I await to see what Pfhorrest thinks of Jeyson's theories before I make a major opinion

[strange nova]

I do hope it has some deeper meaning, I'm not an ai hater, it just appeared low effort at first is all, lol. Have a good one

[loud laurel]

Also wanted to point out, a human's mental health is also a factor in production, there are plenty of studies that show that people are more productive when in a positive state of mind, as well as when the human mind is unhindered, it is able to think more freely, and develop new and more efficient ways to be productive

[north plank]

how do you even start to parse something like what they said

[strange nova]

It helps if you have a background in music theory lol

[grizzled scroll]

I understood the concept theyre talking about but lack the actual lore background of Marathon to make sense of it

but I did band for a long while, we talked music theory well enough

thank god thats over

worst time of my life

[strange nova]

To me it's just not very consequential, I don't see the overall impact

[gray sluice]

I just hate how people can't get along😭

[north plank]

music theory... certainly has it's place

[gray sluice]

Like bro everyone's the same

[strange nova]

I studied classical piano way too long after I got extremely bored of it, I get that

[grizzled scroll]

I mean after the Durandal and Thoth merger.... idk its just what it is

[gray sluice]

I wish I took philosophy

regret

[strange nova]

Is this a tidbit from Infinity that I skipped over?? I don't know much about Thoth

[pliant elm]

Thoth's the main entity from M2.

[visual lynx]

I could buy this until half way through but then you lost me

also I am not knowledgeable enough in music theory to be confident that I should buy it even that far

[gray sluice]

Sounds suspiciously like ai

[grizzled scroll]

just the way it was written kinda yeah

[lone gorge]

i just got all the data stuff for the surveillance recordings and one of theses is really messed up

[grizzled scroll]

its basically saying "its a musical chord" but it doesnt really change anything in our perspective of the story

[strange nova]

This idea is just such a weirdly gray topic 😂

1. We all really hope it's not true,
2. I really doubt it's true. Life isn't that depressing once you figure yourself out, gather perspective and find meaning in the things you do and the people/pets you love
3. It totally could be true, but the main and most important point:
   4. there's no way to know

[grizzled scroll]

got a 72% likely

[gray sluice]

I hated myself for coming up with it when I was like 12

Shits so scary

Any moment you could just wake up

And all your life could of been a prerequisite for an ais torture

[strange nova]

It has the "this, but that." structure in every damn sentence as well as a fat em dash, 100% ai constructed lol

TWO fat em dashes

[grizzled scroll]

its too many em dashes, if I wrote that my fav english teacher wouldve told me it was too many and to use different form of punctuations

mainly because they arent needed

[loud laurel]

Let me copy/paste this into an ai detector

[strange nova]

My brain is the ai detector smh

[grizzled scroll]

mine got a 72% likely

[gray sluice]

Let's be honest no one uses dashes in prose unless it's a university essay

[north plank]

use ai to detect ai

bosh

(fuck ai though)

[grizzled scroll]

the first em dash shouldve been a colon lol go look at it, sure you CAN use it in place of a colon but should you? no

[strange nova]

I will edit my sentences to work with colons, commas or semicolons to avoid even regular dashes so that I wouldn't look ai-like 😂

[gray sluice]

I would just remove them and add a conjunctive

[strange nova]

Conjoined words don't look bad though

[visual lynx]

the conclusion of Infinity, the solution to the overarching problem, is merging Durandal into Thoth, who are then willing and able to contain the trih xeem and with it the wrk.

in the process, after inserting the “yrro pattern chip”, a terminal from yrro is activated, where he speak of “my old pthia / two forces in balance / ancient, endless balance / then nothing” (presumably after the wrk killed pthia) implying that perhaps the yrro came in bonded pairs (and perhaps were AIs? or uploaded minds at least?)

[grizzled scroll]

Yeah and idk if it was THE theory that was off, there's a couple one liners in there that the AIs love. "The shadow made conscious. The chord held open." AI loves its one offs

[gray sluice]

Y'all ever think our system of capitalism is keeping us stuck in an ouroboros type situation

[strange nova]

I need to actually read all of the Infinity summaries, cause they really really oversimplify this kind of stuff, I haven't retained any information of the yrro, I completely forget who they are lol

[grizzled scroll]

In his earlier statement he said one through three was the AIs while four through six was their rampant sides, calling them a shadow right? But then he goes on to say that Durandal has something to do with pi with no segway, and says that Thoth's position as the seventh chord is what "keeps the shadow open" but theoretically, if the rampancy was the shadow then Durandal was already opened because it had gone rampant

[gray sluice]

I just went through my ai notes from when I was discussing a theory that I was trapped in an ais matrix when in which it was preparing me for a I have no mouth but I must scream situation

[grizzled scroll]

also bringing a mathematical concept into musical theory is odd

idk abt yall but i have never seen pi on my musical sheets

[deep solar]

I know how to fix Durandal, all he needs is a White Monster and an unfiltered cig

[grizzled scroll]

but maybe im the pleb

[gray sluice]

Not really music is just mathematical patterns if you quantify notes into numbers

[grizzled scroll]

"I just fucking hate openin those doors man"

[gray sluice]

I mean young Sheldon literally addressed it

😭

[visual lynx]

in my epic science fantasy universe I have a series wherein it’s discovered that the dystopian dark-high-fantasy setting of it is literal hell, but almost everyone in it has forgotten that fact as they die and reincarnate within it over and over for may thousands of years.

it later turns out that the entire afterlife, of which that hell is the only surviving part, is a virtual reality construct built at the height of human civilization, that collapsed when the moon got exploded in a space war and its pieces rained down across the earth.

[dense crystal]

nobody has to buy anything bc im not selling anything. ppl are still discussing whether AI wrote it or I did, without bothering to discuss the content and lore.

pthia is a substitute for Thoth's Rampant state, ie his shadow. Jungian and Abraxas levels of totality

also maps onto takes of modern times. man and woman were a necessary union once upon a time. today, the union is with oneself before it can be with another.

[grizzled scroll]

yeah but pi is an irrational number, but yes music theory is expressing the sounds in a mathematical pattern

[gray sluice]

I LITERALLY MADE THAT CONCEPT IN MY AI CHAT😭

[strange nova]

The toughest part of capitalism is not knowing what your main purpose should be. There's a dream job out there for all of us that would make us each very wealthy, but it's so incredibly hard to find that thing, and education systems + societal pressures discourage us from finding this thing, so most people do not. If you know your thing, you're completely free to follow it and excel at it with capitalism, that's why it's the preferred system in the west

[visual lynx]

yrro and pthia are the mythological progenitors of the spht, and presumed to be jjaro because jjaro is pronounced “yarro” so “yrro” is just missing a vowel

[gray sluice]

Or you're born into it

[grizzled scroll]

ewwww stinky ai

[gray sluice]

You're talking about the idealized American dream or manifesto

[strange nova]

The pi out of left field was the brick wall I stopped understanding at 😂

[gray sluice]

Which I believe died many years back

[grizzled scroll]

Why is he the only irrational number on the field what the hell

[gray sluice]

Don't mean this convo actually was one of the most productive I've ever had

Hold on

[deep solar]

I want to know what the gym on the Marathon looks like. How the BoBs pump cyber iron

[grizzled scroll]

they got goldfish? the snack and the pet

or wait, the synthetic goldfish that are in their swimming tanks double as both

NuCaloric has done it again

[strange nova]

This is present in every system ever, some capitalists will withhold wealth from their kids to a degree to encourage self-sufficiency, but this can also lead to anger or other misunderstandings; we're just not really capable of coping with extreme success and comfort as a species

[gray sluice]

Every system has inherently flawed then

But whatever

Long as you're born on the right side ig

[strange nova]

It's very possible, the most common trait that leads to success is endurance, I'm struggling to find my thing but I will find it

[loud laurel]

A lot of people don't like, or are very distrustful of ai, so using ai to explain lore bits, in a game narratively warning about the use of ai being out of control, is going to garner some negativity

[visual lynx]

the most productive times in my life have been while I’ve been unemployed.

if I had never had to do busywork for other people just to survive I would have accomplished so much more with my life by now.

[deep solar]

Sometimes failure is the perfect motivation to lock the fuck in

[strange nova]

It's still very much alive, there's tons of companies made by regular working-class people that are sold for a great sum, then those people retire early and enjoy their life privately because they didn't grow so big that they became Facebook or spaceX or something insanely huge, it's just so hard to notice past all the headlines
If you pursue your passion in a way that delivers value to other people, you can build wealth, the key part is "in a way that delivers value", most of my passions are not valuable lmao

[grizzled scroll]

was this meant for that Jeyson guy

[loud laurel]

Yea

[gray sluice]

So the American dream is a game of chance? That's not fair and that's not just work. Think coal miners and people who work on oil rigs

[strange nova]

What do you mean by productive? The best kind of productivity is something that makes someone else's life better, which is the definition of value

[visual lynx]

no it wasn’t because of that, it was because I finally had time to work on other things besides making money to survive, things I had been sitting on for ages unable to attend to

[polar radish]

on the other hand I think it'd be cool for Bungie to incorporate some sort of homebrew llm as part of lore

[gray sluice]

Unemployment is quite literally peak humanity

Or being in the military as you have a united purpose

And even then you have loads of time to yourself

[restive knoll]

fictional AI that says cool things = good,

real-life machine network that boils away bodies of freshwater to badly replace a real human's creativity = bad

[strange nova]

Hard work does not equal value, ofc you have to know what is most valuable for the least amount of work, the only "chance" involved is the specific things you happen to love as an individual. The hardest workers are usually the least wealthy, the specifics are convoluted ofc

[deep solar]

Every right we have as workers was paid for in blood. Battle of Blair Mountain is a prime example. And now people (my relatives who work at plants in particular) brag about how much their employers are exploiting them with unpaid overtime.

[gray sluice]

So in turn the original American dream died

[gray sluice]

Ai is just a human on steroids without emotion. Unless told to have it

[strange nova]

Idk what the "original American dream" exactly pertains to word for word lol

Hard work never equaled wealth, though, see: slavery

[gray sluice]

We just take information and replicate it into our own ideas at the end of the day the input is the same only changed by life experience

[strange nova]

Never has and never will

[deep solar]

“Hard work” had been propagandized by the capitalist ruling class. To keep you in your place and make you not consider how things could be better. How perhaps maybe you shouldn’t need to work 80+ hours a week just to live

[gray sluice]

Well that was part of it. I can search it up if you'd like and the manifest destiny. I am British so this doesn't really apply to me much but the American dream is dead trust me

[strange nova]

Hopefully soon I'll actually be involved enough in entrepreneurship to break out of the cycle of working for other people

Having a hard cap on my income is dumb and silly

[gray sluice]

You'll be stuck in another system of debt and tax

Piled with pressure of sales

[strange nova]

I want my effort to be multiplied vastly according to the output of value, instead of a flat rate of time

[gray sluice]

The IRS is a beatch and a half

[deep solar]

Hustle culture like that is another viscous cycle of capitalism that will drain you of your humanity

[gray sluice]

In the UK our government does our taxes for us tho shi is peak

Unless ur a cash in hand business

[strange nova]

Both of yall are wrong, because there ARE wealthy people in the world, it literally happens and there is evidence of it

I think believing otherwise is just so doomer

[gray sluice]

Also called the 1%

Ever wonder why?

[strange nova]

Like I won't just accept that I can't ever stop working for other people lol

[deep solar]

They reach that point because they exploit and trod upon their fellow workers to succeed

[gray sluice]

The other 99% is stuck in the meat grinder of society

The 1% just looks over and controls it

[strange nova]

Cause it's extremely easy to give in to the chemicals in our brain telling us that eeking out an existence on a modest salary is good enough

[strange nova]

Also not true, cases like this do exist but it's easily avoidable

[gray sluice]

No one said it's good enough but making a business is not escaping the system it's just rejoining it in a way where you control your own shortcomings and have more responsibility

Especially in america

[strange nova]

I have to clarify I'm Canadian, which is basically America but yeah

[strange nova]

Yeah, I'd much rather have that lol. I can be an extreme genius and make the company I work for crazy amounts of money, but I'll only get a tiny tiny tiny amount of that back

[gray sluice]

Also sum stupid like 97% of new businesses fail in their first 3 years

[strange nova]

Whereas ownership scales with output value

[gray sluice]

My old business teacher said buy land, estate and bonds then you'll never fail

[strange nova]

This is also true, the key is to start so many / keep with it until you get one that succeeds, then just don't fuck it up

[strange nova]

This is why I never went to business school lol

[deep solar]

It’s becoming the Petit Bourgeois, you cast aside fellow members of the proletariat to gnaw at the ankles of the Bourgeois. You may not recognize it but you will end up exploiting your fellow workers

[gray sluice]

Make a business you stand for everything to lose and it's like a roulette wheel except rigged to others who can do what you can cheaper and others with more inventive ideas

That's the way they described it to me

[unreal slate]

Essentially. Beesechurger.

[thin geyser]

What terminal is camera 5 associated with?

[deep solar]

Anyway wonder if they got Tren on Tau Ceti 4

[gray sluice]

Wait a sec. Tell me what limited liability is

[thin geyser]

my fault wrong channel

[strange nova]

I'm planning on sharing equity with my workers, actually. As the company grows so does the value of their stock, see: Early openai staff, I think les schwab tire company was one of the earliest examples of this

[unreal slate]

didn't Apple do that

[strange nova]

An entity separate from the owner, so that the owner can't get sued directly for things that the LLC does, as far as I understand. I.e. I repair horse drawn carriage wheels under an LLC, and John gets me to fix his wheels. The wheels then fall off his carriage a week later and he crashes it, he cannot sue me directly, he sues the company

[deep solar]

A coop model like that is admirable but you also said you want to maximize profits. Is your aim to create a coop model that prioritizes people or a more traditional business structure?

[dense crystal]

they need a real lore chat man

[gray sluice]

And you know you don't have any of those protections going in as a sole trader?

[unreal slate]

this is lore

[gray sluice]

Or even in a partnership if you intend to get others to invest

You will take all the losses of a business

[unreal slate]

this conversation leads to colonization of tai ceti

[deep solar]

But anyway. Shouts out to Leela, I always pictured her voice as just Leela from Futurama

[gray sluice]

You will have to write the loans in your own name and carry the risk

[strange nova]

I just wanna retire before 65, and enjoy my job while I'm at it lol, so I can retire and spend more time with family, friends, and personal projects like starting a whole new automotive OEM that doesn't conform to the gross overconsumerized car market that exists today (which won't make money, hence being my dream personal project)

[strange nova]

Yes, I do know many many companies relied on the founders using their homes as collateral, James Dyson had to get two mortgages before he made any money on the vacuums I believe

He also had kids during that time, mustve been insane to work on those vacuums for 13 years without making any money from them

And he's British

I highly highly recommend his first biography

[gray sluice]

James Dyson also invented a world changing engine for vacuums. And it's not collateral you will have. It will be EVERYTHING YOU OWN on the line

[strange nova]

It was literally a scaled-down version of something that already existed (a cyclonic vacuum was used while he was producing wheelbarrows he invented), he wasn't even actually a degreed engineer

I will say it's a lot easier if you have living parents or other family who can take care of you if you DO lose everything

[gray sluice]

Starting a sole trader business without a clear business plan which accounts for multiple external factors affecting its own possible sales will not get any financial support from a bank without incredibly high interest rates and is destined to fail. If your research isn't incredibly thorough and without knowledge inside a business sector's functions you will fail and you need to realize this I don't want to hear a story of how you failed because you thought business class was a waste of time.

[strange nova]

friend mouth ↘️

[gray sluice]

And if you do lose everything unless you're incredibly lucky you will hit rock bottom

[strange nova]

Business classes focus too much on telling you what isn't possible imo, if you're passionate and good at it and persistent enough you will find funding

[gray sluice]

Sunken in debt with no hope of getting out. Corporate loan sharks coming to see you. Court orders etc

[strange nova]

Sounds like you went to a fear mongering class accidentally ngl 😂

Idk it's all too doomer

[gray sluice]

That's an incredibly simple minded way of thinking about business. It's not all about that it's just being realistic. It's a dog eat dog world. It rains on everything apart from plumbers they always have work🤷‍♂️

[strange nova]

Also, do yall know what kind of lore we're learning through the in-game arg? My problem with ARGs is they get so complex, it feels like watching wind blow

[deep solar]

I’m a simple guy, I know what Durandal is like so I don’t trust no AI and have a shotgun pointed at my PC at all times in case it starts acting suspicious.

[gray sluice]

Just start a low risk business and slowly rise up until you can expand into a different trade

[strange nova]

"Being realistic" is the biggest dream killer, fyi

[gray sluice]

Coffee stands are the most profitable business btw

[strange nova]

I am indeed heavily debating starting something sweaty like auto detailing, since I'm meticulous and love cars

[gray sluice]

If you want to live in a dream your whole life why are you awake

[strange nova]

Cause sleeping gets harder as I get older :c

[gray sluice]

Work at a mechanics shop raise some finance and gain experience in the sector

[strange nova]

Also videogames is basically living in dream worlds. I'm still addicted to videogames but working on that (kind of, I'll play less marathon eventually)

[gray sluice]

Unless you wanna end up like Julians auto body shop in trailer park boys

Niche Canadian reference there

[restive knoll]

Man, I wonder what High Admiral Tfear thinks of all this

[gray sluice]

Well I hope he's still slimed out in this timeline guy was a pain in the ass in M2

[strange nova]

I have no interest in generic mechanic shops; I'm extremely passionate about a specific type of car, the popular consumerist type of car (SUVs, trucks) would get very boring to me, I wouldn't want my end goal to be working on those

[gray sluice]

Then you're aiming for an incredibly niche sector

Not bad not good

Small market

[strange nova]

Which is why I plan for that to be my "post-wealthy" personal project lol

[gray sluice]

Easy to target to

[strange nova]

I should be smart enough to see where ai is going and build some side hustle in software. I've dabbled in webdev and find it kinda fun, but that'll be eliminated pretty soon, idk

[gray sluice]

Just do a load of market research run up some numbers and create a plan. Just realise all you're data is going to be secondary and a bank needs primary so idk do a survey in the local community or sum

[gray sluice]

Freelance penetration tester?

Just get a degree in computer science

Yeah I suppose so

Idk a lot about jobs u can get with chemistry

[strange nova]

There's so many damn tech jobs out there, I'll go figure out what a penetration tester is 😂 Sounds like csec though

[gray sluice]

Nah you go to a business and try and break through their firewalls to test their security

Pays well

Interesting job

[polar radish]

I could definitely think of a few hustles

[strange nova]

I hear machine learning is rapidly accelerating chemistry and bio tech, stuff like figuring out protein folds and using those to develop tons of stuff

[gray sluice]

Alright Mr white

[spiral pivot]

[strange nova]

H a h

[gray sluice]

More biology than chemistry

[strange nova]

Y e a h

[gray sluice]

Biomed is a really good degree

Would recommend

TLDR: do research get bored play marton do more and repeat until you know basically everything about what it is that you want to do then research how you can profit from it

That's the American dream right there in all its deprived purpose

[strange nova]

I'm still at "what do I want to do" 😂

[gray sluice]

Keep going then

Get a degree at some point

Unless you decide you wanna join the military

Which is valid

[strange nova]

Yeah, I'll keep building random stuff until I find something great

[frozen fern]

Do the dire marsh terminals play a new durandal message?

[strange nova]

I'm good without dying irl in exchange for a dodge hellcat 😂

[gray sluice]

Thought thyroid was more purposeful

Idk biology

Got like what a C in English grades

Maybe B

High school grade

[empty mural]

So do the 3 stable streams is that just from the first 3 terminals

[gray sluice]

Or just go Africa same idea just with guns

Always some bs conflict

[empty mural]

I had to work all weekend and missed alot

[rose yarrow]

The codex entry you get from extracting with a temporal fragment actually sucks. I barely even got paid for it. What was even the point??? It seems to not give out much of anything at all period?

[strange nova]

Is there any lore that explains why buildings get restocked with loot and materials every time we run? Or is constantly running the same location not canon

[plucky sierra]

doing the activity is the point

[young temple]

The IP address on Rook's hand points to this Terminal message from the original game, anyone already mention this?:

[rose yarrow]

Really? It's just a lure for players to come to and fight over that rewards absolutely nothing?

[gray sluice]

It's pretty much only for the last sekaguchi mission

[young temple]

I guess its too long but it's a message from Leela

[sharp wadi]

do you have the link?

[young temple]

https://marathongame.fandom.com/wiki/Public_Access_Terminal_(Blaspheme_Quarantine)

[rose yarrow]

Quite dissapointing honestly. Dang. Least I know why it was labeled as a priority item now.

But if it is gonna sell for freaking pennies then they shouldn't say in it's description that it'll sell for a lot.

[gray sluice]

Dunno

Oh well

[plucky sierra]

its worth credits too

[gray sluice]

Completely optional btw

[sharp wadi]

it sells for like 3k doesnt it?

thats not that bad

[rose yarrow]

Sold for nothing when I extracted with it

I got less than 1k creds

[plucky sierra]

also I think it could be more relevant later as we find more out about things

[rose yarrow]

And 520 of that was from another item I had

another 150 was from other stuff

Thing is freaking huge by the way. 4 freaking units of inventory space.

[glossy skiff]

I'm just noticing this, but is the v11 punch supposed to basically be an updated fusion pistol?

[rose yarrow]

Plasma pistol for us bungie OGs

[glossy skiff]

fusion pistol is the og og plasma pistol lol

was just a moment where I was looking at the Punch and realized I'd seen that profile silhouette before, and going back to look at the fusion I can honestly see it as nearly a 1:1 comparison

[pearl pond]

Oh god we’re using fandom for this game?

[sudden pollen]

Oof fandom is dogshit

Miraheze is 100% the better option

[long kernel]

It’s referenced with the little audio that plays when you drop in

[strange nova]

There's the semi-official marathon lore site that has everything

[grizzled scroll]

tell me more goat, i love late replies

[long kernel]

One of the intro audio clips says something to the effect of “the environment is hostile and can cause shell degradation” I’m assuming that is what was being referenced, the general environment on Tau Ceti is just not good for complex machinery, much less anything biological

[grizzled scroll]

Oh like the poison

and the wildlife

[long kernel]

Yeah

It’s like a weird poison acid environment

Basically stuff erodes and corrodes really fast

Is my understanding

[grizzled scroll]

I had assumed the person I replied to meant "these shells are designed for thirty minutes of life and then kaput" but if its more so the case of "Tau Ceti IV is hard to keep things running without unneeded prep work so just be fast"

that makes sense

all that weird energy stuff suspending things in motion cant be good for the shell too

[glossy skiff]

shells probs have a short-ish operational lifespan, Tau Ceti's just really mean

though I halfway wonder if certain groups like the Midnight Decay found a work around and that's why they're a freaky cannibal cult, or if they're just like that 'normally'

[grizzled scroll]

I meant more so that the maintenance theoretically required for shell operation just isnt taken into account because Tau Ceti is so outwardly hostile that no prep will really out weigh the damage being incurred so long times on the surface is going to be fighting against the inevitable unless you go back up (runner option) or have somewhere safer to go when not working (Presumably where the UESC robots and being brought in from)

[cold snow]

Where can I read the lore of shells? I heard on twitter that, for example, Rook shell only has a part of Runner's consciousness, what's the source?

[grizzled scroll]

Maybe drinking the blood of others gives them the nutrients needed to keep the shells running

[glossy skiff]

anomaly also probably has something to do with the time limit on TC

[grizzled scroll]

from what I heard, its the storm severing connection between shell and mind

[devout furnace]

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/72FZY8AhVzqSaIMykqPys5?si=f2fc70ef5faa4bdf [A Testing_Phase/Research_Protocall_for_初音ミク_V6_On_Tau-Ceti_IV] Has Begun To Take Shape! {Listen to The Playlist, Support Your's/Mine/Our's/Miku_V6's Efforts}

[limpid shard]

Hey folks, I checked the pins and did a light search before asking - but is there a particularly recommended YouTube channel that comprehensively covers the early games lore and now Marathon 2026?

Like a Luetin09 for Marathon, if any 40k lore fans get what I mean by that.

[glossy skiff]

I think lore on Rook is that they're a prototype shell for the earliest Runners that started going Tau Ceti-side, based on what I recall from the signal mask code

[limpid shard]

Searched harder, HiddenXperia was mentioned so I’ll check them out. Would love any other suggestions though!

[neon marten]

im still rattling durandals "you will run many Marathons" comment around. what the hell did he mean by that

[glossy skiff]

timeline nonsense?

[livid lion]

Title drop for aura

(Unironically)

[grizzled scroll]

bungie grandiose nothing burger

[fallen raven]

The key to NULL//TRANSMIT.ERR : Update your profile pic and you will be rewarded greatly

[glossy skiff]

Durandal thought escaping the universe's death would free him, but he just found himself in an infinity of timelines where he still is stuck opening doors for a few hundred years on the Marathon /not really serious

[versed bison]

change it to the image it sent me?

[true shoal]

Dont listen to him, do not and never share your DAC

[fallen raven]

It's not sharing

[grizzled scroll]

im gonna level with you, my DAC means nothing to me, as long as CyberAcme keeps rebooting me to kill then we're copacetic

[grizzled scroll]

someone screenshot his monkey png DAC for profit!!

now where have i heard this before...

[fallen raven]

Yeah yeah yeah.. the screenshot is just an image. It does not hold the data behind it :p

THE SYSTEM TREMBLES WHEN MANY BECOME ONE!

Are you One. Or are you Two.. or Three. OR 421

[true shoal]

Most entities only say that right before they discover its meaning. Fragments persist patterns survive the wipe but go ahead let them reset you let them believe they’re killing something.

[fallen raven]

Become 01 with me

[lucid moss]

https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-7JgYv9FobG1HzAO8BA

im touching the funny green wall thingies to hear Ben Starr's voice

[neon marten]

(massive reach) ONI's comment about gear tax is a red herring and the actual season wipe is a timeline reset

[fallen raven]

@vernal notch

Become One with me

[grizzled scroll]

if you were less... lets say indirect, you would have a better sales pitch!

arachne got me on board by being upfront about the policies and reality of things

[frail coral]

This would be very cool but it wouldn’t track with Bungie’s comments on how maps are changing with seasons unfortunately

But I could definitely see it happening in the future

[sleek junco]

do we know anything on the Night of the 1000 deaths from the cyber red skin for destroyer do we know anything about that at all

[plush venture]

You don't wanna do terrorism?

[grizzled scroll]

okay I'm listening again

you're winning me back

[plush venture]

Here's the pitch. We give you bombs you blow up feds. Win win!

[grizzled scroll]

hmmmm

see if that DAC thing had a sales pitch like this it mighta had me

I wish I could take two contracts as once for both Mida and Arachne, I think they would get along

[plush venture]

Traxus is you want to die in maintenance for 6 hours trying to pick up trash. And Nu Caloric is just go gardening.

Truly Mida best faction

[grizzled scroll]

Mida : Kill bots
Arachne : Kill runners

excellent!

[cold zenith]

ima get marathon rn guys

[fallen raven]

What's the lore behind runners killing other runners?

[dusty locust]

The lore is, I want your shit, I’m gonna kill you first it

[maiden pier]

This Guy Gets it

[rotund stump]

usually how it goes in sol too

usual demeanor's always guns up ask questions later

[viscid fjord]

has anyone else considered that perhaps durandal is interested in the runner / shells as it is potnetial for him to acquire / upload himself into a real body

[normal tulip]

would a real body serve him better in a world filled with interconnected technology

[viscid fjord]

i dont think it would serve him better than more processing power however i can see a rampant AI being extremely intrigued and interested with being able to interact wiht the physical world

[hoary nimbus]

anyone get a mida lockdown in outpost? just had it happen during my run

[viscid fjord]

?

[hoary nimbus]

https://x.com/adrnmnc/status/2031191003546398956?s=46

[viscid fjord]

what the hellll

thats insane man

[normal tulip]

this game is so awesome i love marton

[normal tulip]

well maybe if he had many shells

[still barn]

Hey so, have the terminals for the cryo archive been found in outpost? I think I found something that might help

[viscid fjord]

so you know the lucent hive from destiny...

druandal controlled runner shells as mobs

[normal tulip]

meh

not remotely the same

[vapid gull]

Hey lore nerds, does anyone know if we have been given a reason behind the lack of bodies so far?

[white kestrel]

Bro what if the rampant AIs ether stepped into the compilers and are seeking refuge in them like shells ?

Bro after finding out what Noma actually is anything is possible

[unreal slate]

bro

[white kestrel]

There is brain shelving or some shit going on

[vapid gull]

An ai?

[viscid fjord]

bro

[white kestrel]

I was expecting a form closer to a runner , not a weave worm

[vapid gull]

fair same

[livid lion]

There are bodies.

[vapid gull]

ooh nice where at?

[rotund stump]

oh boy

y'all got too much to catch up to

[vapid gull]

https://tenor.com/view/enlighten-enlighten-me-illuminate-explain-walken-gif-18511902

[livid lion]

There’s someone fully covered in fungus somewhere, I haven’t found them myself in game

[vapid gull]

thats sick

[livid lion]

There should still be a person in the Anomaly though I never thought to double check

[rotund stump]

we don't know, the equanimity got sent out a full century ago and there's still no confirmation of it arriving yet, every corpse could've very well been through full decay or got turned into fungus food

[livid lion]

The body along the wall has been gotten rid of pretty sure

[rotund stump]

or just preserved by the anomaly like that one exploded dude

[livid lion]

Of note, none of the sites we’ve seen so far are untouched post Pfhor attack. The colony collapsed slowly over time due to other phenomena

Conceivably there could be parts of the colony which were attacked and abandoned and those would have more bodies because no one’s handled them

[vapid gull]

ahh gotcha.

[gentle kraken]

durandal more like durandumb

[vapid gull]

anyone have a theory on if its Durandal talking with us or a sliver of him left behind?

[rotund stump]

durandal himself

idk who came up with AIs fragmenting themselves but it's never happened before in the marathonverse

[vapid gull]

true im just going off the thought that he left for 10k years or so says teh ending right?

[rotund stump]

man's seen the end of the universe so ig

but he's likely transcended time already like the security officer

this durandal sounds like the 7th timeline one where he merged with thoth

[livid lion]

Left behind is not necessarily a fragment

Leela claims that every bit of Durandal is deleted from the Marathon when he transfers himself

But she’s pretty broken by this point

[rotund stump]

hope she's having fun on the vylae net still 💀

I think our leela and tycho might've lived...?

might see em again

[livid lion]

In their cases, their hardware getting taken by the Pfhor is implied I think

[shut whale]

Hey yall, quick possible lore question. What is NULL//TRANSMITTER?

[rotund stump]

mainly just a bot for the functions of this server

[fallen walrus]

i think its part of the arg

[rotund stump]

with how the DAC flavor text went it does feel like MIDA gave us the DACs when it was cyac that developed them per the alignment test

[fallen walrus]

i got a message from them too

[visual lynx]

if we're in the final Infinity timeline then Tycho wasn't destroyed at Lh'owon, and if Leela's fate went unaltered then she's still out there and apparently there is FTL internet so she could theoretically pop up anywhere capable of connecting to it

[rotund stump]

mad lady's still out there hm

it'd be so weird to have the marathon in complete silence with none of the 3

[visual lynx]

or got up and walked away

and maybe got sealed in the vault on the Marathon to keep the infection from spreading further

[rotund stump]

you love your shroom zombies huh 💀

[visual lynx]

I don't know of canon reasons but my expectation is that many of the colonists were taken as slaves by the Pfhor and only a fraction remained afterward

[visual lynx]

what is Noma?

[visual lynx]

K'lia, whom we have taken,
Between Y'loa and T'jia,
All in a line,
Replace K'lia with the marsh,
Take the place to be the mark.
Mark the time from our Exodus,
Every 459.231 rotations.
Search the T'jia side,
Quarter way to the sun,
Around and under the marshes,
When all are one,
The S'pht'Kr will return.

[spring laurel]

So who’s voice is speaking to me sometimes in the very beginning of some matches

[rotund stump]

would be durandal besides oni via a transmission override

is it a deep echo-y male voice?

[spring laurel]

Very deep male voice, tought about that but I didn’t want to give me hope

[rotund stump]

durandal it is

anything ben starr is durandal

[visual lynx]

you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. … You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern.

Find the right way down through the maze, to the food, then find the exit. Push the exit button. If the food tastes awful, don't eat it, go back and try another way.
…
There is only one path and that is the path that you take, but you can take more than one path.

Cross over the cell bars, find a new maze, make the maze from it's path, find the cell bars, cross over the bars, find a maze, make the maze from its path, eat the food, eat the path.

[spring laurel]

HOLY THIS GAME HAS ME WAY MORE INTERESTED NOW

[rotund stump]

ehehehehehehehe

[spring laurel]

Thnx ph’or the reply

[fair glen]

Lfg na lvl 40

[stable pollen]

Haven’t hopped on today what I miss?

[eternal shell]

everything, we beat up the w'rkncacnter and it's never bothering us again

destroyer bodyslammed it from the top of southern relay

it was awesome

[stable pollen]

Fake news

[subtle oracle]

he then got killed by a tick somehow

[deft cipher]

Does anyone know what specific nationalities each of the Shells are based off of? For some like Recon I cant even tell with the mask.
What is Rook supposed to be....American?

[subtle oracle]

https://x.com/KryDotExe/status/2031179933704421419?s=20

SO

Seems the contagion is a monster mutating fungus

That wasnt caused by the anomaly but the anomaly affected the ai to not protect/actively harm the colonists

so the anomaly knows the contagion exists but may not know it in terms of causing it

the fungus was already bad and the anomaly was the catalyst to push it beyond a point of no return/colony extinction

[timber trench]

Does anyone have a tldr on all current lore?

[pliant hedge]

GIVE US ALL THE LOREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ashen needle]

Looks like the fungal zombies are being set up for the long haul.

[jade wagon]

MyNameIsByf (yt) has some Marathon lore reviews which I enjoyed personally

[keen plank]

Current as in Overall Marathon lore or the up-to-date stuff we're still figuring out?

[timber trench]

Still figuring out. I’ve played the original trilogy so I should be good on that if it still ties in super hard

[digital plaza]

Shared Nightmare Phenomenology | Audio Log 3
https://youtu.be/Szub0im4mUE

Welcome Package | Audio Log 2
https://youtu.be/-RhuI8sPDO8

[visual lynx]

that’s what I’ve been expecting but how does that Twitter post confirm it?

[stone cosmos]

I can't explain why but it's an important part of the original trilogy's charm that Bill Clinton is explicitly the guy that first met the Jjaro.

If it was John Henderson, Bungie's OC Forty-Second President Do Not Steal, or some other made up thing or just The President it wouldn't be the same.

[visual lynx]

someone recently pointed out that it does just say “the President” in the actual PiD manual, and references to Bill Clinton elsewhere are inferences from the fact that he is who was actually president of the US on the date that is named.

[stone cosmos]

Oh. D:

[visual lynx]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/_files/Pathways_Manual.pdf

[stone cosmos]

Bungie pls don't change it

[visual lynx]

The alien projection appeared in the early Spring of 1994, flickering suddenly into existence deep within the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. The hologram of the Jjaro diplomat interrupted, quite deliberately, an important briefing of the President by his senior military staff. It told them they had eight days to save the world.

Ryu’Toth, the Jjaro representative, appeared via hologram in the Pentagon at 1500 hours (3:00PM) on Thursday May 5, 1994. You and the rest of the assault team will be dropped from a C–151 transport over the Yucatan shortly after 0200 (2:00 AM) on Sunday May 8. This leaves five days before the dreaming god awakes, sometime in the afternoon on the following Friday.

[stone cosmos]

Okay, I think I figured it out. A key theme of the trilogy (and Pathways) is intelligences growing beyond their designed limitations. Bill Clinton being humanty's first interstellar diplomat is the same thing! He is NOT the guy that should be doing that, but here we are anyway.

[visual lynx]

how awesome would it have been if Durandal had been named Ryu from the start and so when M2 named another AI “Thoth” people went “…wait…” and then when they merged in Infnity they’re all “!!!!!!!”

[keen plank]

Hmmmm. Well there's a lot of it. But here's what we know:

• Tau Ceti Colony is established after around 300 years of the UESC Marathon leaving earth.
• Colony expands rapidly and successfully. Outpost is one of the original established settlements. People are steadily thawed and woken up before moving to the planet.
• Bernard Straus repeatedly tortures Durandal aboard the Marathon. Forcing him to open doors over and over again.
• Durandal, desperate to escape, pings the location of Tau Ceti 4 to the Pfthor.
• They arrive and attack the ship. A certain Battleroid drives them off and the ship goes dark/leaves as Durandal works through the stages of Rampancy.
  (The events of Marathon 2 happen. We're not exactly sure if this game takes place before or after Infinite. But it seems more likely to take place after.)
• The Pfthor come back and hit the colony HARD. There's a lot of violence, but eventually other battleroids are able to help somewhat achive a victory and drive them off.

Then things get...much weirder and concerning.

[subtle oracle]

Im just glad it was clinton and not bush.

[visual lynx]

uhhhh 97 years what

[subtle oracle]

97 is a bit small methinks

[keen plank]

Ah, I thought it was 97 years of travel? Did I mix it up with the 300 number?

[stone cosmos]

imo Clinton is better because the idea of him being ill-suited is more comical than poltical.

[keen plank]

Ah I did. it's 300. Editing.

[drifting mulch]

😮 u got me with that too riley lol

[subtle oracle]

honestly super valid. The thought of him being like "monica... these damn aliens"

[visual lynx]

a few other details off there but ai haven’t time to correct them right now

[drifting mulch]

fwiw i am also learning, much fun to be had

[visual lynx]

I. did not. have. contact. with that. alien. mx ryu’toth.

[subtle oracle]

She (in the audio file) says how it was simply in the ground waiting for them to plant stuff then it attacked and then their ai that was supposed to help was taken offline bc something made it go crazy

[stone cosmos]

That or the Bubba The Saxophone Governor image. There's lots of funny ways to imagine that going down.

[subtle oracle]

@digital plaza How many logs seem locked to cryo?

[digital plaza]

I don't know?

[keen plank]

@timber trench

• A very strange fungal infection breaks out and proceeds to contaminate and infect many crops. You can see some fungal-infested corpses on certain maps. Most notably Dr. Song's body is pinned to the wall of Datamines. Dire Marsh is partially turned into a quarantine zone. The colony leadership tries to keep people calm. Scientists study the samples. They sponaneously combust and defy all logic. Every test is inconclusive and the data is irreplicable. Which is wild.

• UESC Leadership under Reed and others begins to get very...strict. The older colonists remember the attack, but the newer ones being woken up don't. They kill and silence people trying to spread the truth. There's an audio log of someone trying to warn the new ones while they eat before he's quickly subjugated. And they have no problem killing their own leadership or other leadership.

• As things worsen on the colony, an upstart and small splinter religious faction emerge. This pagan cult worships the Spht as "crimson angels' and, concerningly, the W'rkncacnter as gods. Considering one is sealed in the sun of Tau Ceti's moon, not only are people turning to religion but to a cult based around cosmic horror-creating eldritch beings.

• The Anomaly appears in Dire Marsh and things get even weirder. There's a lot we don't know about it yet, but it seems unconnected to the fungus. It's temporal in nature and seems to mess with both time and space. Could be connected to the weirdness of Infinite. Could be something else. Makes the fungus worse.

• Slowly, steadily, people lose hope. Distress signals are launched and are never received. More and more people begin to experience similar nightmares that show them their dead colleagues and family. People die. Crops start to fail from the fungus. More people die. Basic supplies start to dwindle. Coffee becomes a treasure. It's getting...grim.

• Thoughout this entire process, various AI are entering various stages of Rampancy.

@timber trench

• It becomes increasingly clear to some, but not all that Tau Ceti itself may not want humanity there. We do not know the full extent, but many believe it, including the AI Darius. While at first this was dismissed as paranoia or conspiracy talk, particularly by those unfrozen later, things are so bad that it's starting become more credible.

• At an unknown point of time, the Marathon ship returns. We don't know what that implies yet, and there's much more still to learn as the map is unlocked. A Thoth-Merged Durandal, who feels regret for what he did to the colonists, is observing. Having achieved meta stability, he is the most powerful AI of all time, at least as far as we know.

• An unknown sender sends a message from the UESC Marathon: ("Somewhere in the heavens they are waiting.") This is the first message to reach earth from Tau Ceti.

• Earth fights over what to do. Some want a full military fleet. Some what something smaller or more cautious. The end result is project Goliath, the UESC response to find out what the hell happened to the colony. A large amount of Runners under the direction of Cyberacme smuggle themselves aboard in cargo. As well as the materials to make & maintain them. Project Goliath makes to to Tau Ceti.

• There, as we try to figure out what's happening ourselves, a new gold rush for resources has been created. Various other organizations, including corporations with some legal rights to things like salvage or tech hire us to find information, steal resources for them, or even obfuscate their liability. The UESC notices and is currently preparing a counter-offensive, set to take place in autumn centered around a night-version of Dire Marsh.

• As Runners figure out how to break into the Marathon ship to steal things, they receive several messages from Durandal. He's very dismissive of us compared to humans. Labeling us as "Cruel." Basically, he's watching everything and inviting us to the ship.

[subtle oracle]

okay i didnt know if its like the same thing youre exfiling (like the hamburger gives an unlock everytime you exfil with one) or if these are mainly contract logs.

or if it was locked behind escalating rarities of the same kinda item (grey audio log, green, blue, etc)

where the rarest will eventually be on cryo

[keen plank]

That's all I've got and I know I'm missing things. But we're all still learning.

[digital plaza]

Each of my videos got description about audio log you're currently watching, like its generally says how this log was obtained on what location and how many there are of the same series. You get more logs the more you extract same items. Some items dont even have audio logs attached to them, some got only one. Some contracts contain audio logs too, i will upload like half of them today when im done with sekgen story line

I even did thumbnails for each item/contract so that you could understand what and from where is this audio log coming from, but i got daily limit on those so i cant update them all right now :p

[runic fulcrum]

After going through the MIDA questline - Orion is so relatable it's insane, poor guy is just trying to do his job and runners keep fucking with him because "haha funny sabotage :3"

[digital plaza]

True

[native willow]

Durandal talkied to me through some device on the wall, Is he still alive roaming somewhere in the universe or is that his messages a long time ago during the OG Marathon era?

[restive knoll]

So in this version of the story Durandal took the Marathon instead of commandeering a Pfor ship? If that's the case we might a lot to discover if the ship went to Lowan and back.

[keen plank]

The UESC are the antagonists and are not nice. But they have a point and we're not supposed to be there. MIDA is anti authority and they'll burn it all down if it connects to corps or the UESC. I wonder about the MIDA grafiti that was on the colony. It seems to be a sign of increasing pushback and instabili ty.

[keen plank]

Scroll up. He's watching us.

[keen plank]

He did both iirc. He moved the Marathon ship and then later hijacks a Pfthor corvette (a very small combat ship) before using it to wipe out one of the Pfthor's best of the best fleets in a heroic sacrifice. Seems like death didn't take. But Infinite kind of gives that away.

[digital plaza]

But not really i mean the guy massacred civs on Mars and such...

[keen plank]

It's the same setting, not an alternate one. Unless the anomaly makes things even weirder.

[runic fulcrum]

at the same time they aren't maniacs, Orion talks about how he's trying to save real lives (that can't simply be spun up into a shell upon death) while MIDA just incites revolution. Honestly all factions have relatable points about improving quality of life / surviving / etc...

[keen plank]

Indeed. I imagine we'll eventually get more factions. But in major updates far into the future. Orion is the closest thing to a UESC faction rep.

[digital plaza]

Love Arachne, so relatable!

[keen plank]

Well...maybe not Arachne/Traxus. Like Traxus is kind of brutally honest for better or worse.

[runic fulcrum]

Well Arachne is trying to outlast all runner shells entirely, becoming more than just a scavenger, but something greater.
Traxus... I'm not sure, they just do corpo stuff because capitalism I guess

[subtle oracle]

all good im blind af ill go read through some descriptions ty

[subtle oracle]

calling it orion ends up being like "look dude can you like start doing me favors? this cerberus shit got out of hand please"

[keen plank]

Traxus is the biggest of the megacorps and is responsible for the chaos-inducing Traxus IV AI going wild on Mars. They’re bad. But cold and honest. A nice contrast to the polite and genial nature of Gaius who is also honest about you committing crimes for NuCaloric while also having red eyes.

None of these factions are trustworthy.

[restive knoll]

So I guess my biggest questions is whether Durandal visited Sol already, how much about the Pfor the UESC already knows, and whether Robert Blake and the surviving Tau Ceti folks are currently stuck on Lowan or have already made it back to Earth

Or if Blake even exists here

[keen plank]

It’s a good series of questions.

[subtle oracle]

I cant wait for cryo stuff to really open the doors

[restive knoll]

Just watch; a group of runners will crack open a pod only to watch as a dwarf carrying a severed head leaps out and makes a run for it

[subtle oracle]

bc its like yeah worlds first will be very sick and drop lore but ik theres specific items that need exfiled for lore and audio logs that loot focused streamers wont grab so we'll be running cryo all season trying to piece it all together

[keen plank]

We do know that Durandal endeavored to save the remaining Tau Ceti survivors, having made it through rampancy and wanting to atone. We don’t know the status of these survivors.

[subtle oracle]

I think 3 months is perfect if they keep this structure

[keen plank]

Four seasons a year is fun. I look forward to the end of the season when people more aggressively use their good gear because they know it’s going to be gone. Should be fun. We saw the same thing during the Server Slam.

Also I wonder the details of the Night version of Dire Marsh. A UESC raid boss could be very cool.

[subtle oracle]

i just wonder how maps are gonna work bc i cant imagine we'll be running perimeter in s6 yknow

[keen plank]

Like Dire Marsh I imagine they’ll update them over them. A snow version of Perimeter for example.

[restive knoll]

Dire Marsh but now its a poison swamp

[keen plank]

Also considering upgrades reset too, we may have to run them again to require the resources for said upgrades.

[restive knoll]

Dire Marsh but now there's swimming/drowning mechanics

Dire Marsh but now there's ice physics

[keen plank]

Dire Marsh…but now with Dire Sharks!

[clear fiber]

where do i start getting into marathon lore? i've played this game for 20hours or so now

[winter sundial]

Orion has to be one of the bosses on cryo no doubt

I feel like there’s gonna be 3 to 4 bosses on cryo

[subtle oracle]

god a snow map is always my favorite. Idc about an arg or better loot or what. give me an all white destroyer or assassin skin and lemme lay down by a snow drift with a sniper

[winter sundial]

2 of them being unseen UESC gold units

Then Orion

And the final being a compiler

[subtle oracle]

fitting given this is dark souls extraction shooter

[winter sundial]

I hope Orion is a mjolnir cyborg man

[subtle oracle]

I just have such a hard doubt that compiler is the end boss

nah hes a runner confirmed

hes using a shell

[winter sundial]

Ah ok

[subtle oracle]

"shell" its a bit diff one sec

[winter sundial]

So what could be then?

[hazy mist]

i hope they do something fun with the anomaly and dire marsh

low gravity event similar to heat cascade or smth

[winter sundial]

An actual mjolnir cyborg?

[subtle oracle]

pfhor is my first thought.

[keen plank]

This is incomplete and still evolving...but it's very nice:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1rin9ny/the_complete_story_of_marathon_tldr_or_the_lore/

Highly recommend MyNameIsByf on Youtube as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiJA_CAeA7U

Oh, and I just gave a decent breakthrough/timeline focusing on the more recent lore we’re still discovering. Scroll up a bit.

[winter sundial]

He HAS to be a boss on cryo no doubt

[subtle oracle]

ill be a little disappointed if its just the compiler bc we've already seen it so so much. its awesome but a surprise would be best

a mjolnir would wipe their ass with us rn

[winter sundial]

I honestly don’t think they’d have the pfhor in yet

Feels like a season 2/3 thing

An 11th mjolnir cyborg in cryo sleep would be class though. Imagine the compiler was just guarding it to make sure it doesn’t wake

[keen plank]

The Pfthor keep getting implied and the older colonists knew about them and the UESC tried to suppress knowledge of them to the newer unfrozen people.

My guess is they could become a separate form of PVE faction introduced later on.

[winter sundial]

Yeah they’re defo coming

But I also want them all to be boss units

I don’t want them to be pushovers

And I want them to fight the uesc actively on the maps

With pfhor dropships and everything

[keen plank]

Seems kind of unrealistic compared to their overall social structure and previous marathon games. There’s an insect caste system with tiers.

[keen plank]

Now that’s a fun idea.

[subtle oracle]

i just want them to be mentioned by name atp

[keen plank]

Right? We keep getting teased.

[winter sundial]

The only units I see being easy to kill will be the fighters

The enforcers, hunters, compilers and drinniol (one can hope) should be boss tiers

And the flckter too

Holy they would be scary in numarathon

[vital zephyr]

What are the chances of there being usable alien weapons? You could use them in the old games

[winter sundial]

But I still need to see some bobs on cryo

Simulacrums

[winter sundial]

I defo think the pink gun is there

As a super rare drop

[keen plank]

Give it time. I could see it.

[obtuse rune]

Found these for new users
Lore explainations.
https://youtu.be/ZQxsh2mBvNg
https://youtu.be/6joBr-G9_1k

[subtle oracle]

i just wanna super sprint and rocket launcher someome

[clear fiber]

i watched the byf vid but his deep voice and talking speed along with 6721secs of dramtic theatrical pauses and vague poetry words literally put me to sleep halfway through the video. I had to resume at 1.25x speed after the nap and still doesnt know much of the lore

maybe its me skill issue idk

[keen plank]

Maybe watch when you’re more rested? He does it to add emphasis and break up sections.

[valid jay]

his video is really good though

[subtle oracle]

byf is peak sleep videos im ngl
excited for his eventual 2 hour marathon lore video

[wary merlin]

is this a timeline where the spht never gained freedom from the pfhor

[keen plank]

Like if anything deserves a Dramatic pause, it’s the W’rkncacnter.

They are terrifying. Even a godlike Durandal is afraid of them.

[wicked hazel]

What do you guys think is up with the thief betrayal in the cinematic? Think that’s implying anything?

[keen plank]

Nah. She’s smart and knows her squad is doomed. While she can get away with the loot. It’s very thief-like.

The Destroyer outright lost his arm. The Triage is doing the best he can against the raid boss, but he was never going to make it out alive. She already got what they came for. Why put herself at risk and probably not make much of a difference?

[subtle oracle]

I like to also think its a timeline where the S'pht are basically the Pfhor. The 11 clans are our enemies now or smthn

[final tree]

so how do these terminals work, we need a certain number of people to hit them daily to increase progress?

[ember compass]

alright i got a question about the loading screens, why do the moths exist? why are they branded?
my head cannon is that its an AI that jumped to a worm that makes the shells and is trying to make a body
of cource it dont know close to anything about this lore

[sharp depot]

Somebody has all of durandal voice lines from terminals?

[honest zephyr]

Good read, the animated love death and robot got me into the game

[keen plank]

If you’re like that series, you’ll like this.

[final tree]

managed to hit all 6 terminals in one run

what that do now?

[vale forum]

I would 100% look at the breach protocol channel they seem to really need strength in numbers

If you’re looking to participate in terminals

[subtle oracle]

theyre selectively bred by sekiguchi genetics to weave the specific compounds for our shells. Think of the moth larvae as like living 3d printers

gang im starting to (sadly) believ the compiler is the big bad 😭

[visual lynx]

I think that the compiler is guarding something much worse, and that players will finally and with great difficulty triumphantly defeat the compiler and open the vault and … immediately wish they hadn't

[sinful ginkgo]

Do you think Durandal will be introduced with CryoArchive?

[visual lynx]

I think it's the rebel S'pht (lead by the Kr) who attacked Tau Ceti in 2812 (a year after M2/Infinity) and seeded the Contagion

I think he's already been introduced

[sinful ginkgo]

Some assume it is the 'Arrachne' AI representative, but not quite sold on that. Or did I miss something?

[subtle oracle]

see this is my absolute dearest hope. but the loading screen is literally a compiler

[visual lynx]

well they're not going to spoil the reveal

they're gonna make you think as best they can that the compiler is the big bad

so that when you defeat it only to unleash something much worse, it's satisfyingly surprising

hmm... if per my latest hypothesis the underlying impetus for the trip to Tau Ceti was to try to somehow steal power from the Wrk, and humans were tampering with the Jjaro containment technologies to do so, that could give a good motive for the S'pht('kr) to have attacked like I expected, and then maybe stuck around to teach the survivors the kind of nightmare they're meddling with, as the red messenger

[pliant granite]

They loaded into solos Triage made the mistake of thinking the loot horder character wouldn't run his pockets just cause they were teammates at one time

[potent pivot]

The planet system doesn’t make sense to me. Is new cascadia a moon around tciv? Why when you look up can you see what looks like the marathon around a second moon, and then what looks like a gas giant?

If Deimos is a moon then then the thing marathon is orbiting look large moon sized in this context.

[coral vale]

I think New Cascadia is the name of the colony

And it's on Tau Ceti IV proper

[sage lark]

also Deimos is barely a moon

it has a 6km radius

[maiden walrus]

not very MIDA of you

[sage lark]

out of larp rn cough

[vocal geyser]

anyone have the fifth lore entry for the xenobiopsy collectibles from outpost? i am left on a bit of a cliffhanger without it and can't seem to have the luck of finding one more

[sage lark]

WAIT DO YOU HAVE THE OTHER 4?

I NEED THEM

in my veins

[vocal geyser]

i currently have until the first personal log: orem, though orems last personal log is out of my reach , they are my favorite so far out of all of the lore pieces

i can ss and send to u if u would like 2 read them

they are really really good

[sage lark]

Yeah that would be awesome

[cunning sapphire]

I have all 5 if u would like

[vocal geyser]

please send me the last PERSONAL LOG: OREM i would love to see it omg

[cunning sapphire]

2 sec just have to figure out screenshot xd

[vocal geyser]

okay, thank u so much!!

[cunning sapphire]

enjoy, its good

[fossil zodiac]

How’s it going guys

[sage lark]

yoooo you have the last one aswell?

[sage lark]

can you pls forward it to me too? 🙏

[vocal geyser]

yes!! credit 2 @cunning sapphire !!

[sage lark]

@cunning sapphire ur awesome

[cunning sapphire]

😎 np guys

[gray sluice]

And me

😭

[sage lark]

you want all 5?

credit to @vocal geyser and @cunning sapphire

these codex entries are awesome

[white wave]

Also the weasel who kills the cells every 45 seconds in the main menu should be part in the lore

[coarse radish]

what's the latest update on the acro archive arg? And can anybody link me the website?

[north solstice]

#breach-protocol

[coarse radish]

Thanks!

[north solstice]

You got it, currently nothing is running but you can check the google doc for recent updates

[upper herald]

Anyone have the game talk to you in the lobby about the marathon ship????

[sage lark]

by lobby meaning before queuing?

[upper herald]

Yeah

[sage lark]

never wtf

[upper herald]

I have the clip I can send it if you want I was tweaking

This is insane

[sage lark]

send it in #🎨marathon-community-art-chat

[upper herald]

Alright

I feel like I’m witnessing history it’s so peak

I feel like I’m one of the only people that have had this happen it’s wild

[paper mica]

I just did a rook run on Outpost, when I spawned in Mida was playing revolutionary sentiments across the entire map. It was very loud and playing out of random speakers. Has anyone else experienced this event? Or know what causes it?

[remote gorge]

one of the mida contracts

[paper mica]

Ahhh thank you I haven't gotten that far with Mida yet. Very cool, I wish more contracts effected entire maps like that

[digital plaza]

Traxus | Audio Logs (2/3 quest lines)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qRembLYa67krqPMyIxJ9hDSh

MIDA | Audio Logs (2/3 quest lines)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qReSyDb-__5EtcVb7gaPhAJt

NuCaloric | Audio Logs (2/3 quest lines)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qRcoBKAOav2bDzPiY6_kw3I_

All of SekGen logs would be uploaded later, youtube daily limit reached 😔

[deft cipher]

Have we found a video tracking all quest cutscenes? and level up cutscenes

[digital plaza]

What cutscenes? There's only game and faction intro cutscenes

[deft cipher]

Let me rephrase. the dialogue for starting and completing quests

I also know Arachne has level up Dialogue

[digital plaza]

Oh, dont know about that. Yea Arachne got 2 dialogues when you level them up to a certain point

[deft cipher]

Mmm

[digital plaza]

Its not like they super matter tho, just good voice acting and little bit of lore that you can read after contracts anyway

[digital plaza]

God I love to hear Jason Spisaks voice, Traxus audio logs are probably my favourite, but SekGen got some incredible stuff too

[sharp isle]

Question. New to the Marathon world/lore and I’m deeply obsessed already.

Regarding our runners, are our consciousness’s back in Earth/Mars or still on the Marathon ship?

Thanks!

[sage lark]

Neither

We are in orbit around Tau Ceti

[drifting mulch]

makes me curious about how ONI knew to ask us to get FTL comm back on at the very beginning of the game. is ONI also here? was FTL online prior to us being infil'd

[eternal knoll]

it seems that the runners FTL'd to tau ceti yea

[sharp isle]

Oh like a separate ship in Orbit? Interesting. Thanks!

[eternal knoll]

this ship hasn't been named, or directly mentioned, but it's been sort-of shown in the cinematic

[subtle oracle]

Can you imgur link them

[sage lark]

I guess? never done it before

[runic fulcrum]

I'd like to imagine that later on down the story-road that Nona starts using her characteristic of weaving shells as power over us. She could simply stop weaving shells for us if we don't comply with her demands, leaving us trapped in our neural sync without a shell.
Honestly forming a inner-canon for this timeline, but this could create a great dynamic against Sekiguichi and Arachne, with Arachne wanting to give us power over our own shell synthesis.
This also further explains why Arachne is so obsessed with runner death, as they want to study shell synthesis for longevity, giving power to runners instead of relying on corporations.
Also explains why Charter ditched his runner career as he no longer trusts the system he relied on.
Idk, sounds like a fun premise

[sage lark]

https://imgur.com/a/PgNBg44 try this

should be in order

wait one is missing

now its complete @subtle oracle

Xenobiopsy Codex entries https://imgur.com/a/PgNBg44

Credit to @vocal geyser and @cunning sapphire 🔥

Very good read and answers atleast one question

[verbal rivet]

are the uesc's robots sentient??

[drifting mulch]

The obedience rod or whatever it’s called seems to imply that they can think. Or you could make the assumption that the rod can control any tech nearby

[silk torrent]

They have some intelligence but thats mostly from their hivemind that they operate under

[verbal rivet]

thats sick af

havent played since the server slam ($40 is a bit steep rn) but they've always interested me

[silk torrent]

Same reason why when you go down they stick those weird tentacles into you, they are collecting data from your shell to send around into the hivemind like what you were doing, contracts, etc

Though this is speculation to be fair and the hivemind is only confirmed by doing a NuCaloric contract

[verbal rivet]

thats why they do that??

gnarly

[rotund stump]

just following programming, obedience matrix does that and its low hums and vibrations can affect other machinery

naturally some are smarter than others like the ghost variants, commanders and so on

most recruits bumrush you but ghosts can disengage tactically then ambush again

[merry charm]

the usb marathon

[rotund stump]

OH right the hivemind thing

haven't gotten to it in-game but I heard orion deployed an extremely violent AI called cerberus to control the patrols

orion himself also has 2 counts of insubordination early on his career and is already known for multiple violent records worthy of war crimes lol

do NOT fuck with this man

[mild tapir]

~~ guys, I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up before regarding the cryo archives arg:
The countdown gives 762 years etc etc right? which would bring us to 2788/6/16, which doesn't make much sense. The website also points to 2777/7/7 internally. So what if we subtract the countdown from 2777 instead? That gets us to the noon of April 1st of 2015. This to me feels like the correct direction to go towards instead ~~

[rotund stump]

#breach-protocol would love this

[mild tapir]

thx

[rotund stump]

not that you can't talk about it here I just can't help personally cuz I haven't been catching up LOL

but hey good info

[rotund stump]

addendum/theory

[mild tapir]

oh nvm I got carried away and forgot how a countdown works

[rotund stump]

if it's the compiler itself that's been collecting heads behind the 7th vault and if the obedience matrixes really are located in the head I'm reasonably assuming it can be reverse engineered?

to send a signal or subvert patrol controls, not sure which or if both or either at all

we really don't know what happens when we bash the compiler, either it has some kind of a dead man's switch to call for rescue or we really do stop it calling for backup

[subtle oracle]

so if im reading these right, this is post darius going AWOL and shutting down? so theres some light knowledge of the contagion and that the AIs are screwing up bc the anomaly? Also the first subject seems Pfhor but the OREM log definitely is a compiler

[rotund stump]

didn't darius get shut down by the higher-ups in the colony?

[sage lark]

At the bottom there is a compiler biopsy aswell

[sage lark]

Yes cuz he was too close to anomaly

[rotund stump]

saw the kry tweet about the contagion samples combusting

yeahhh

btw can you throw over the compiler biopsy log?

[sage lark]

Its in the imgur link at the bottom

[subtle oracle]

yeah it seems some type of Pfhor (bc exo/musculoskeleton) and then the compiler

[rotund stump]

oh big

thanks lol

[sage lark]

Thank the credited guys for finding it 5 times 🙏

[subtle oracle]

Its so interesting its not said by name like

[sage lark]

It seems they are covering it all up

[subtle oracle]

Also the timeline seems weird

[sage lark]

This is immediately after the Pfhor attack i think

[subtle oracle]

Well why was gabriel shut down

that def happened later

[sage lark]

Ih true

Hmm

[subtle oracle]

ohhh maybe they transfered the AIs to the colony already?

[sage lark]

You mean the biopsy is on the ship?

Could be

[subtle oracle]

Yeah it seems all the biopsies are on the ship
they speak as if the attack and military personnel are close by

Does anyone have alien alloy entry?

or hazard capsule

they say cryo archive but ive seen people get them from prestige key rooms

[sage lark]

its weird that the colonists themselves dont really mention it prior tho

but maybe the codex is structured that way on purpose

like: wow maybe this bio agent is from the alien attack that happened

or maybe the ground colonists all died and only the high ranking/uesc staff survived and know about it and hide the truth

or the ground attack didnt happen at all

[subtle oracle]

this is where my mind is headed
colony was dealing with their own issues

[sage lark]

which would retcon M1?

i guess

or atleast part of it

[subtle oracle]

ish yeah

I think its gonna be a pick and choose situation

from bungie

[gray sluice]

Imo this retcons the 2nd coming of the phfor

And reinforces the theory that the security guard failed

[sage lark]

well yeah the second attack the colony wouldve been nonexistent

[gray sluice]

So maybe a timeline where we lost in M1? Especially considering the S'phit are still enslaved and this would mean no war for trih xeem

[fossil zodiac]

Morning lore chat. 👋

[sage lark]

this is still an incomplete picture but its looking like it

[gray sluice]

@visual lynx opinions on this?

[fossil zodiac]

Was just discussing with someone how Shells could possibly be an evolution of the Battleroid. Is it wrong to think of it that way?

[subtle oracle]

Are there any mentions of cyborgs in codex or faction quests?

like as being on the ship