📚marathon-lore-discussion

[violet sapphire]

Meaning they worship the big 3?

[sharp quarry]

what do the figures being puppeted-infused mean?

[hot thicket]

thtas very possible because the post that got me on this track said that the AI would be more likely to be taken for their old gods

[violet sapphire]

I don’t think so, the colonists seemed very practically minded regarding the AI

They’re tools

[hot thicket]

guys just so you know if i find out Durandal is against us, im joining Durandal

[sharp quarry]

So silly, still living in a moment

all enemies and allies

[violet sapphire]

I’ve been stewing on the idea that Arachne is a result of some people coming into contact with Jjaro or S’pht, maybe Gerritt White being one of the first

[subtle oracle]

Did yall see my theory that bc the W'rk was thwarted in M:Inf (2811 ish), the timeline basically created The Anomaly (2812) as a reaction

[sharp quarry]

Gerrit White being a real person who founded a cult is perhaps the easiest way bungie could lose the trust of every single old fan who thought they understood the nuance of the story even a little bit

[terse wren]

Yeah I feel like the anomaly is extremely W’rk coded

[hot thicket]

timelines cracked

[violet sapphire]

I think in a less literal sense, the Gerritt White terminal could be a religious allegory made by Arachne

[hot thicket]

needs flex seal

[violet sapphire]

Their symbol is in the original trilogy

[sharp quarry]

It's also extremely Jjaro coded

[terse wren]

This is giving me an overwhelming urge to replay the original trilogy

[violet sapphire]

Not super Wrky to me

[hot thicket]

Tau Ceti's Haunted

[sharp quarry]

in one of the Jjaro-tech induced dreams the Cyborg has

[violet sapphire]

If it was Wrky there’d be horrors stalking around

[violet sapphire]

That’s one of theories

[terse wren]

You guys remember the one map where it was two 3d spaces that overlapped each other

[sharp quarry]

So alien contact involved in its beginning (especially given charter's backstory mirrors an "abduction" perfectly) makes sense

[terse wren]

Multiplayer map

[violet sapphire]

It could also be an allegory for Durandal killing Tycho, or Strauss

[sharp quarry]

but Gheritt White having anything to do with it is like

[violet sapphire]

Nobody knows what Gerritt white means if it means anything at all

[terse wren]

And going down certain hallways you’d end up in the parallel space

[subtle oracle]

I think it being temporal, having "cracks", affecting time etc shows it might be connected to the timeline

[hot thicket]

when i stand on the edge of the corner of the triangle of the anomaly i hear voices

[sharp quarry]

And only Jjaro tech is seen to mess with time

W'rks mess with physical space

[hot thicket]

all over the maps i hear sounds like its from an echo of the past

[terse wren]

…. what do they tell you to do son

[violet sapphire]

I think it’s much more likely to be Jjaro. It’s explicitly described as emitting waves which is Jjaro shiznit

[hot thicket]

i cant make them out, they are distant but booming

[finite night]

Gheritt White being a real person instead of allegory to something would be so lame ngl

[sharp quarry]

I once heard my glitch just start maniacally laughing in an echo while standing somewhere between maintanence and algae ponds

[subtle oracle]

I more mean bc in M:Inf in the 7th timeline, everything happens except the Wrk being freed. That happens far away but the year roughly matches when the contagion hit TC4

[sharp quarry]

That's like a new star wars coming out and a character named "The Force" walking up and saying "Hi, i'm John Force" idk like what are we even doing

ok bad comparison but kind of the same kinda stupid

[hot thicket]

im John marathon

[violet sapphire]

I’d prefer if they did something with Gheritt than nothing personally

And Arachne lore seems the best fit

[subtle oracle]

So The Anomaly is the universe's "course correction"

[sharp quarry]

Sure, referencing him, elaborating on the metaphor, but him just being a real plot-relevant dude?????? are you crazy???

[finite night]

not everything needs to be connected

[hot thicket]

"proprietary technology" , that means alternate timeline investigations for alternate universe tech

[violet sapphire]

I said allegorical lol

[latent lava]

Hello guys, in this months a learn a lot about marathon lore, but the new game coming out seems like a reboot and the lore is completely different, i am right? Its like some things are the same from previous games and some are changed

[violet sapphire]

It would be funny to have him descend from the heavens and say it’s marathoning time it’s me Gerritt white

[subtle oracle]

we dont rlly know yet

[sharp quarry]

no you didn't

[scenic summit]

AFAIK Gheritt White isn't confirmed to be anything or anyone in particular. He's just a protagonist in a short story written by Durandal as he's going crazy trying to understand what's going on during an existential crisis.

I think

Not confirmed though

[violet sapphire]

Yes, I did lol

[latent lava]

All the things about anomaly seems pretty central and are never mentioned in the first games...

[violet sapphire]

Ye we don’t actually know if it means anything at all

[sharp quarry]

we also don't know it was written by durandal

[violet sapphire]

I think the writer is on record saying it’s just something he wrote and put in the game

Could just be an Easter egg

[sharp quarry]

it says transfer durandal twice, but also transfer leela, and then message recieved, it might be outgoing

[violet sapphire]

That’s some of the fun

[sharp quarry]

wellll it also ties into the themes of the larger trilogy and is directly referenced in the opening to infinity

"To escape. To escape." "He escaped into the waves. The waves."

[finite night]

we don't know

that's the thing

[subtle oracle]

Because while the old trilogy was durandal focused and basically away from the marathon after M1, what we know so far is only about TC4 and earth. So realistically outside the W'rk, everything in M1 and the 8 M:Inf missions ab the "good" timeline couldve happened. then between the tri xheem ussge in Lh'owon and now, we have zero idea what durandals been doin

[scenic summit]

Well, I like how existential and abstract it is, bottom line. I might be fine with it just being a one-off and having other well written abstract trippy short stories

[violet sapphire]

Yeah I agree 100%, maybe he just did it as an Easter egg originally but it’s more significant now

[finite night]

and every popular interpretation fit rather very well

[violet sapphire]

I like the broadsword terminal more anyways :p

[scenic summit]

I could see someone in therapy maybe writing the Gheritt White terminal entry trying to explain to themselves what they think is happening maybe

[violet sapphire]

Yeah one of the other most common theories is that it’s literally about a guy being transformed by powers he doesn’t understand

Which sounds almost like the anomaly

It could go any direction

[finite night]

personally I believe it's related to SO

[violet sapphire]

Like when they borged him up?

Or just more metaphorical

[finite night]

more metaphorical like infinity i'd say

[terse wren]

Why is everyone associating waves with only the jjaro now? I remember the original terminal and it clearly referred to the Jjaro and the W’rk both, minimally. Maybe even more to the W’rk.

[violet sapphire]

Yeah the physical transformations occurring in it are what made me initially connect it to Arachne

Wrists being forced together, the sounds of clapping, etc

Bit of a stretch but fun to hypothesize about

[scenic summit]

The waves were concurrent with the bars, and if he got caught by the bars they might cut him in half. Basically, he feels trapped but he escapes into the waves...

[terse wren]

Is it because the google ai summary incorrectly associates waves with just the jjaro?

[scenic summit]

He wasn't finding any peace being confined as he was

[terse wren]

Read the actual terminal text.

[violet sapphire]

Man what? Why is everyone in here so accusatory

It’s stated the Jjaro use waves to manipulate reality

[scenic summit]

Rats.

[terse wren]

I was just asking!!!

[violet sapphire]

Also why would the Wrk even be on Tau Ceti?

Or a wrk

[terse wren]

Because the one terminal this is based on afaik talks about the waves as being produced in a conflict b/t Jjaro + friends and W’rk

[scenic summit]

The rats may have been speaking to him, about rats. How annoying they were, but he couldn't see them.

[sharp quarry]

Yes, the waves are a more primordial concept that's tied to the scale of the ancient technology and power at play, less to any one race or signature

[terse wren]

And in late 90s marathon story page days most M lore heads associated the waves more with the w’rk

[subtle oracle]

Ive had the thought that it doesnt have to be the jjaro OR wrk

[sharp quarry]

He who rises with the tides and whatnot

[terse wren]

Right

[subtle oracle]

bungie will be announcing a new threat im almost sure of it

or they go true cosmic horror, universe and esp the planet itself is trying to kill you

[violet sapphire]

The Jjaro are explicitly more temporal than the Wrk in general, there’s also never any indication there was a Wrk in the Tau Ceti system. The one we kill is in Lhowon

[scenic summit]

Anyway this is why I call Marathon 2026 "Evil Foursquare" lol

[terse wren]

Right and then there’s some metaphorical thing with the tides of l’h… lo… lululemon the spht home world

[scenic summit]

At least when playing solo

[violet sapphire]

Even 4 square felt evil that day 🫩

[sage lark]

Season 1 is feeling pretty frontloaded you guys think we will get mid season stuff?

[violet sapphire]

I think maybe more events and stuff?

[sage lark]

Im not saying its not a lot

[violet sapphire]

Probably not anything major

[terse wren]

But… aren’t all the temporal anomalies in the Jjaro station in Infinity due to the presence of the W’rk?

[violet sapphire]

I just want John marathon shell

[sage lark]

It did show some carrion or carri something event on the roadmap image

[violet sapphire]

We don’t know if it’s the Wrk or the nature of the station I don’t believe it’s ever concretely stated

Been a while since I played infinity though

It’d be a little bit of a copout to have Wrk this early on imo, I’d like to see Lhowon and places we actually know there is a wrk first

Like there’s just magically ANOTHER wrk at tau ceti actually

[scenic summit]

Anyway, to summarize, my theory is that Durandal wrote the Gheritt White terminal as a way to explain how he felt as a door AI and he thinks he went crazy waiting in what felt like confinement so he escaped. Later, Durandal would leave the Marathon and explore the universe.

[finite night]

shell where you don't have health and instead full bar of shields

that you can overdrive two times

[violet sapphire]

Bungie hire this man

[warped sluice]

lore enjoyers; who can explain the worms to me

[violet sapphire]

3d printer silkworms that make the shells we play as

[violet sapphire]

I am curious what the abilities are going to be with the name Sentinel

I saw somebody say placeable turret

[terse wren]

Oh I agree that’s dumb / weird

[warped sluice]

so; the worms make the shells? we are not (our soul) being put into the worms?

[finite night]

shell based on original trilogy gameplay would be cool

[terse wren]

But like if realities are overlapping and the cyborg is some kind of fate vessel

[violet sapphire]

Nope the worms are physically creating the shells, we inhabit them as data

[violet sapphire]

Dual wield passive 🥹

[finite night]

yeah if you have second weapon in inventory

dude

🔥

[warped sluice]

neat, ty ! is there any hidden meaning with the moth in the loading screen too ?

[terse wren]

Maybe he ties them together somehow. Or he and Durandal do

[violet sapphire]

Silkworms turn into moths, I think the moth eating the worm on the loading screen is further commentary on the cycle of life/the runners

[violet sapphire]

Yeah we also don’t know if Durandal combined with Thoth in this timeline or not

[latent lava]

Do anyone know if Leela's message has already reached Earth during the time period we are playing in? If so, the UESC and the corporations already know that the colony has been destroyed by the Pfhor, but they all seem to be unaware of this.

[violet sapphire]

I think they probably know more than they’re letting on, especially since it appears the UESC has already encountered the compilers

[subtle oracle]

Its a lot of "we assume but we dont know" bc we havent seen the pfhor even mentioned

[violet sapphire]

They’re just keeping their cards close to their chest

They aren’t gonna tell runners

[subtle oracle]

Which fair game

[subtle oracle]

bungie is good at that

[floral vector]

found the right channel. ^^

[latent lava]

I think we're playing as a runner hired by the corporations to find out what really happened, so the things that the UESC knows and that may be known about the old games (which will surely be tweaked and changed) are unknown to us and the corporations.

[dry pilot]

the weaveworms?

[sage lark]

Damn how did you theorise that

[latent lava]

Immortality

[subtle oracle]

The running theory is simply our old body is dead. Now whether we willingly uploaded ourselves or its a "you debt doesnt die with you, get in the shell" deal, that we drk

[dry pilot]

the opportunity to operate without limits, where death is merely a setback to the ultimate payday

death is the first step

[violet sapphire]

Another interesting thing to me is what happens as tech advances

How do we know the consciousness files are compatible with the next CyAc hotfix

Leaving your being in the care of an IT company is crazy work

[subtle oracle]

I wanna know what SekGen wants with us

[violet sapphire]

Same they’ve been keeping SekGen very ambiguous

[warped sluice]

yeah !

[violet sapphire]

The clips of their AI rep are interesting, she treats you as her kid

[floral vector]

you mean Nona?

I saw a short about her.

[violet sapphire]

I think so I’m not 100% on her name

[dry pilot]

theyre bioengineered silkworms used by SekGen to 3d print runner shells, due to their complicated interwoven nature the use of weaveworms is necessary to be able to interlock the various layers, biomatter and inorganic materials used in their fabrication, giving them better durability against shock and damage etc

the only exception is rook, rooks are hijacked UESC maintenance drones originally used to maintain facilities and other UESC combat drones, they are entirely mechanical, the blood seen from them is most likely coolant, not blood.

[warped sluice]

super cool. im weird and i love creepy eerie stuff so seeing the worms and moth really stood out to me haha, thank you for your time and answer!

[dry pilot]

you can see said maintenance drones corpses in some areas like hauler

[warped sluice]

oh, does this mean the shells actually bleed?

[dry pilot]

the shells are partially organic, the blue fluid they bleed is in fact some form of synthetic blood likely used to fuel and cool their biological systems

[latent lava]

Is our mind present in a spaceship similar to the Marathon orbiting Tau Ceti IV? Sent by all the corps, perhaps through an agreement? Some trailers show a room where there appear to be millions of shells ready for use

[warped sluice]

awesome design and creativity lol. will be looking forward to piecing together more of the lore myself as i play !

[dry pilot]

no, its likely miniscule by comparison

[hot thicket]

Sekgen needs test data for better shell design

[dry pilot]

the Marathon is the size of a moon

[violet sapphire]

Yeah there’s some kinda smaller orbiting satellite/ship

It has to line up perfectly in order to deploy the runners

Lore explanation for run timers

[dry pilot]

pretty sure the timer is due to signal decay due to Tau Ceti IVs atmosphere and other factors, rather than the satellite desyncing

[latent lava]

It is therefore reasonable to assume that it started together with the UESC's Goliath project, given that it takes 93 light years to reach Tau IV.

[dry pilot]

its why rooks have less time than standard runners, their bodies werent designed for consciousness transfers, meaning their signals are more fragile and more unpredictable

[fast dune]

within the lore. Is there technically only 6 shells total running around tau ceti?

[subtle oracle]

yeah confirmed the signal is affected by the anomaly is why

[violet sapphire]

Like discord server contracts?

I think they’re closed

[violet sapphire]

No there’s 6 models of shell

[dry pilot]

i was skirting around mentioning the anomaly lol

[violet sapphire]

They’re mass produced

[fast dune]

ah okok

thank you

[gray sluice]

There's new ones

[violet sapphire]

Np :p

[gray sluice]

Ngl i want the new codes so bad

[latent lava]

As time passes with the seasons, Sekiguchi will print new shell models (Sentinel).

[violet sapphire]

Gimme now plox

I want John marathon

[gray sluice]

I want John marathon 2: Durandal

[violet sapphire]

Yeah you’re right that was one of the first codex entries I got so it was a little hazy

[violet sapphire]

AI runner would be crazy

No physical body you can only transfer between terminals

[dry pilot]

i mean we know that rooks are purely mechanical, its what allows them to use signal mask, the UESC drones use biological scanners as well as ID checking, so when rooks falsify a legit ID, the UESC drones see it as a maintenance drone and ignore it, as the combat and maintenance drones ignore each other iirc

[violet sapphire]

Or it plays like an RTS

That would be sick lmao

[gray sluice]

I mean there's a theory that Durandal is actively controlling all the s'phit compilers from the cryo archive

And he's in the final vault

[violet sapphire]

Yeah I’ve seen that floating around

[eternal shell]

💰 💰 💰

[violet sapphire]

I’m not sure he’d be controlling them as much as being allied with them like in the classic trilogy though

[latent lava]

I'm pretty sure that in the first Marathon, Durandal manages to gain the trust of the Compilers by promising to free them from slavery. I don't remember if he controls them completely, but I think it's possible since that's what the Pfhor do.

[dry pilot]

escape will make me god

[subtle oracle]

Im on the theory that debt doesnt die with us. so contractually we had to upload ourselves to "work" (either on earth/mars shells or in a digital landscape) and then they went "hey huge pay for doing mercenary work"

[latent lava]

Should the S'pht be almost entirely organic with a small controllable cybernetic part? I don't remember very well.

[violet sapphire]

They’re almost entirely cybernetic

At least the ones we see

[visual lynx]

in m1 leela described "the organic part" as like a very small mammallian brain, but with much denser neuronal structure

[latent lava]

That's a really cool theory, it would make sense in a world where corporations always want more.

[sage lark]

Its like a tiny meaty brain with skin on a floating electric wheelchair

[violet sapphire]

The compilers specifically, there’s other kinds of S’pht as well

[sage lark]

Atleast the enslaved ones

[green plume]

like the thing from teenage mutant ninja turtles

[sage lark]

Yes

[violet sapphire]

They look like little chicken nuggets in the old art it’s really funny

[sage lark]

Zorp or whatever the fuck

Or glorp

Idk wtf they are called in tmnt

[gray sluice]

Gabba glorp glorp

[sage lark]

Literally

[violet sapphire]

Some S’pht think that they’re actually Flickta that the Jjaro experimented on

[dry pilot]

its confirmed that its not just runners who use shells, theyre pretty common among the rich iirc, the runners are loaned their shells essentially at the behest of corporations

[sage lark]

They are their ancestors

[violet sapphire]

It’s so funny to me that they imply that the Ph’for make them wear robes and stuff because they’re just kinda gross looking lmao

[sage lark]

Flickta i mean

[violet sapphire]

Poor S’pht man

[gray sluice]

Charter is a runner shell

[sage lark]

Marathon would be even spookier with their wrinkly ass

[violet sapphire]

Yeah was it ever concretely determined? I thought it was just a theory amongst the S’pht

I mean yeah they almost definitely are

[sage lark]

I think someone said it somewhere not sure

[exotic talon]

anyone has a game for me while i wait marathon

[sage lark]

Maybe a terminal entry

[gray sluice]

Marathon

[dry pilot]

truly a terrifying thought, that the people at the top have transcended death and are now above and indifferent to the needs of the living beneath them

[violet sapphire]

If you close ur eyes and think really hard u can pretend to play marathon

[lunar fractal]

are the spht those guys with the glowing green chest?

[violet sapphire]

It’s what I’ve been doing

[violet sapphire]

Yeppers

Those are S’pht compilers

[pliant granite]

I've got a timer counting down to the second the game releases

[sage lark]

Theyre floating xboxes

[pliant granite]

Feinding bad over here

[gray sluice]

I CANT WAIT to see the codex entry of the s'phit

[silent grove]

S'pht species, called compilers

[violet sapphire]

Fucking RIP Xbox by the way holy shit

[sage lark]

Yep glorified pc

[pliant elm]

They're more like enslaved lobsters on a wheelchair, yeah.

[sage lark]

Halo prolly dead too

Sadly

[violet sapphire]

Sony buying halo and giving it back to bungie would be actually insane

[dry pilot]

at this point if you REALLY want a console like Xbox, uh.... buy a steam machine idk what else to say lol

[violet sapphire]

The good ending

[sage lark]

Sony buy Halo and let bungie do its thing

Lmao

[gray sluice]

Can we canonically call compliers clankers or not?

[violet sapphire]

I think there’s leaks that Xbox is like actually being sunset by MS

it’s probably donezos

[pliant granite]

Would be insane to see halo go from a longstanding Xbox exclusive to ps5

[dry pilot]

i call UESC drones clankers in callouts because they literally make clanking noises when they stomp around

[sage lark]

If that ever comes out at a reasonable price

[violet sapphire]

Same thing would apply to battleroids

[latent lava]

If an S'pht compiler seems really powerful compared to our shells, how powerful must the cyborg used in the first three chapters have been, given that it wiped them out with ease?

[nimble pecan]

whgy is the marathon round now

[gray sluice]

Battleroids are clankers tho ong

[woeful ore]

mamter cheemers uwu

[pliant granite]

That and also they go down in 7 shots of .44

[violet sapphire]

Security Officer is like a demigod

He’s not normal lol

He’s a dawg

[pliant granite]

It is mentioned in the intro cinematic that our shell is produced with 'suboptimal durability'

[gray sluice]

Ngl I think the s'phit are gonna use their tentacles when players are knocked and it's gonna be so peak. They must also take additional damage when doing this

[violet sapphire]

I hope we get to see UESC warden v compiler at some point

[gray sluice]

W mechanic

[violet sapphire]

Although I think they’re leading into the UESC not being able to touch them since they use fully autonomous robots

[gray sluice]

My money is on the warden

Honestly

[violet sapphire]

And compilers are compilers

[gray sluice]

Uesc wardens will be hacked by s'phit though

[violet sapphire]

Ye exactly

[pliant granite]

I can only hope we see a warden getting slimed by the compiler as an intro to it's fight (I assume it will be a raid style boss fight)

[latent lava]

If the UESC has managed to create 9 (maybe 10) extremely powerful cyborgs using JJaro technology (it's not clear to me whether the Security Officer is actually human or not), who knows why SekiGuchi can't do the same or doesn't have the same technology as the UESC.

[violet sapphire]

It would be an effective scare

[gray sluice]

No. There's gonna be multiple s'phit in cryo

[remote magnet]

Maybe the compilers are allied with the UESC? I mean, the Compilers where loosly allied with humans after the rebellion. Since we are playing as criminals, if they where to seek an aliance with humans,t heyd go to the UESC

[pliant granite]

Security officer is a formerly human battleroid

[pliant elm]

Why are the S'pht attacking the runners though.

[gray sluice]

Nope cause uesc sends robots in there to see what's going on and they get hacked immediately and never come back

[pliant granite]

Just made me think what if we end up getting the security officer as a boss fight aboard the marathon (doubt it would work out with the lore but it would be sick regardless)

[gray sluice]

Compliers are pfhor and pfhor hate humans

Plus they're protecting something in vault

[nimble pecan]

protecting whatever is cocooned and gestating on the marathon maybe

[remote magnet]

Oh, i didnt knwo that. Where is that info? in game codex?

[gray sluice]

Yeah

[pliant elm]

What Pfhor though. Who's controlling them lol

[remote magnet]

cool, forget what i sayed then

[gray sluice]

Well s'phit don't hang around in complier units?

We don't know what the pfhor are up to yet

[pliant granite]

Compilers are S'pht tho? It was in one of the first terminals in Marathon 1

[pliant elm]

Sure, but what pfhor lol.

[gray sluice]

Probs introduced in season 2 as there's a new threat

[latent lava]

I'm not entirely sure, but sometimes we are not defined as humans in terminals.

[gray sluice]

Pfhor clearly wearn't wiped out in this timeline like in M2

[pliant elm]

Oh, so they didn't confirm the timelines yet.

[gray sluice]

Yh

[pliant elm]

Well, talk about deus ex-machina.

[gray sluice]

But anomaly is messing with timelines

So everything's a bit fucked

Continuity wise

[pliant granite]

I'm pretty sure cause battleroids are just suped up cyborgs made with bodies of dead soldiers

[pliant elm]

Kinda lazy though, as a prelude.

[nimble pecan]

the spht on the marathon could be durandals allies, if its a timeline jumping durandal, would be nice if they do definitively link it to the old games to do it through that?

[gray sluice]

Anomaly might be w'rkcacnter trying to break through to this timeline from a failed one like in Pacific rim with the rifts

Which is messing up with the timelines events

Or jjaro remnants doing something below ground

[nimble pecan]

why wouldnt it already be here tho

[pliant elm]

I would have prefered if they established a clear timeline of what happened.

[nimble pecan]

lol

[gray sluice]

So the game has a story lol

[gray sluice]

Game trailer has some

[pliant elm]

I hope they don't go the route of, ok Season 6 is, we go into a different timeline, ahah.

Infinity style.

[nimble pecan]

i mean like, in the sense of, these are ancient beings from whenever the hell, why would this universe not have one already

[gray sluice]

Though there's mishaps in the timeline as the uesc ship appeared a few years earlier

[glossy brook]

Personal theory: the founders of Arachne are the survivors of Icarus and Thermopylae

[latent lava]

We are a cyborg made with Jjaro technology and ability to traverse space and time, i dont think that we are really human.

[nimble pecan]

or several, or one-in-several or whatever they are

[nimble pecan]

theres probably still a corpse in there tho

[earnest wharf]

Why are the S’pht on marathon?

[gray sluice]

In this timeline trih xeem was clearly not deployed to release them as we'd be dead

[gray sluice]

Slaved species by pfhor

[pliant elm]

For anyone whos has tested the game - they give you a corp introduction in game or you have to go offline for data?

[gray sluice]

Protecting something in cryo. My bet is that it's tycho

[sage lark]

Like what each corpo is?

[nimble pecan]

its locations change between timelines too, dont they? it could be anywhere

[earnest wharf]

Ah

[pliant elm]

Ye

[sage lark]

Theres introduction missions yes for each one

[pliant granite]

The origin of the battleroid is the same though a human corpse

[latent lava]

Tycho in a terminal says this "When the Pfhor annihilated Tau Ceti I recorded the deaths of all twenty-four thousand colonists as distinguishable spectrographic pulses flooding over my sensors. The nine Mjolnir Mark IV cyborgs were easily separable from the humans in this form."

[gray sluice]

No theres multiple trapped in every universe. They're mostly in suns but one was under a temple on earth in pathways into darkness. Either way they're all trapped in this universe as jjaro imprisoned them. During M2s events one was released as the trih xeem was used to blow up a sun which was one jjaro prison

[violet sapphire]

I think transhuman is the most accurate descriptor

[gray sluice]

Failed timelines are when one is released

[latent lava]

So the battleroids maybe are really different from humans

[nimble pecan]

yeah cause theyre... weird techno necromantic liches. ofc they dont have normal vital signs

[gray sluice]

Basically it destroys everything

[sage lark]

Corpses revived with tech and jjaro shit

Thats the cyborgs

[violet sapphire]

Ya Tri Xeem either inadvertently released the Wrk in failed timelines or like trapped it in infinite star implosion BS in successful timeline

Which kinda sucks for the Wrk bro was just napping

[nimble pecan]

right so why would the anomaly be one thats coming into this universe from antoher one?? This universe already would have its iteration sleeping?

[gray sluice]

I don't get what you mean

[sage lark]

I dont think theres a single one

[gray sluice]

It's a species

[violet sapphire]

From what we know the Wrk are a species there’s a bunch of them

[pliant granite]

Well yeah thats the case for pretty much all cyborgs in media especially so the ones that have very little or none of their original body left

[pliant elm]

My grandmother has a steel knee and I call her cyborg.

[remote magnet]

We know at least about one sleeping inside earth (Pathways into darkness) and the one that wakes up in infinite

[gray sluice]

Guys I do have a question though. In marathon infinity what was the other security guard in the timelines doing

Did our one replace it?

[violet sapphire]

Making out with Durandal

[pliant granite]

Pacemaker kings on top when ai takes over heart of steel n all that

[violet sapphire]

few know this

[sage lark]

I think we created new timelines

[nimble pecan]

through eternalism it can all be one cyborg

[violet sapphire]

It’s a bit heady but I think the SecOff was a universal constant. He is the creator of the timelines

[gray sluice]

But these timelines events couldn't of existed without his involvement

[subtle oracle]

did yall go back and read the new julia stuff @gray sluice @violet sapphire

[nimble pecan]

lets cut off the Wrkcancters finger to trap it in the strands of krah, surely this will work

[sage lark]

Well he is destiny

[violet sapphire]

Where at? I haven’t

[gray sluice]

Why is he destiny is he stupid? He's in marathon not destiny

[sage lark]

Real

[subtle oracle]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message
start here

[violet sapphire]

It will never not be funny to me that we just consistently nuke the sleeping dudes

[subtle oracle]

she goes into detail ab shell archetypes and series.

[sage lark]

Its like when you always melee the sleeping grunts in halo

[violet sapphire]

That’s fuckin cool

Important people get custom shells to maintain their personality

Sick

[gray sluice]

I wish Julia could comment on what the w'rkcacnters in this timeline are doin

[sage lark]

That would be givin away too much no

[gray sluice]

I would ping her but I did it one time and she struggled to reply. She was clearly trying to tho

[violet sapphire]

I think that’s probably big overarching stuff they’d be hesitant to talk about

[nimble pecan]

important lovecraftian tradition

[violet sapphire]

And spoil the story cycle heavily

[gray sluice]

Dunno

[subtle oracle]

TLDR basically the destroyer is a specific archetype of a shell with certain abilities (in its case military focused) and the series is what its voice and personality fit to reflect who made it (so ours is UESC military gruff guy called LOCUS while traxus would maybe make a lion faced guy named titus instead)

[nimble pecan]

its like when Cthulluh was waking up, and would have called elder wrath upon the earth, but they put it back to sleep by hitting it with a boat

[gray sluice]

I don't think we switch timelines each wipe tho reckon it's just the dividends we give to cyac referenced at the start

[violet sapphire]

Crazy how they based the Sentinel shell off of me right guys :p

[subtle oracle]

so like vandal is our series of a glitch archetype

[sage lark]

Yeah and the different series will be skins i guess

[nimble pecan]

no skins are aesthetic

[subtle oracle]

my guess is new series will be like deluxe skins or like lvl 100 battle pass skins

[violet sapphire]

Yeah I guess for the more unique and likely paid skins

[nimble pecan]

not personailty changing, like series are

[subtle oracle]

new armor look, new voicelines, new personality

[violet sapphire]

Maybe new voices and personality traits with the different series

Me and Vulcan are cerebrally connected holy

[latent lava]

Could it be that all corporations are simply exploiting us to conduct experiments on rampant AI? In fact, we are immortal intelligences that, passing from shell to shell, become increasingly insane (as can be seen from various trailers).

[gray sluice]

Did you know if 20000 runners all reached preferred status then the uesc would be fully disrupted

[sage lark]

Rampancy is not insanity in marathon

[short hawk]

Im of the contrary opinion.
I think the wipes are different timelines and as we pass though more of them we slowly get closer to the goal. Who evers goal it is. Ours, durandels, unknowns.
To become god

Larger sets of infinity

Aleph

[violet sapphire]

Rampancy is clarity and true self determination/cognizance

[subtle oracle]

yeah skins are aesthetic. idk how theyll do diff series but its like a skin is a palette change and a series is a completely different shell design and personality with the same silhouette and abilities

[violet sapphire]

It just so happens that all the AI are egotistical assholes lmao

[latent lava]

Is Durandal not Insanity? It seems to me

[violet sapphire]

Durandal isn’t insane at all he’s just a dick

[gray sluice]

Used to think this but it would make the story significantly more diluted and less focused imo. And it'd be a pain in the ass to write a new timeline every 3 months

[nimble pecan]

insanity is a realtive term

[sage lark]

Hes meta stable after during m2

[short hawk]

I think it would make the story richer. I guess its a matter of taste.

[nimble pecan]

he wasnt sane before

[gray sluice]

Plus the direct reference to cyac dividends at regular intervals seem like they are stating why wipes happen

[nimble pecan]

sane is not a concept that really applies to a door opener

he wasnt made to have agency really

[pliant elm]

"Stable" - I'm just going to plasma nuke these giant letters in here. Ahah.

[short hawk]

Im a physics and maths addict and anything down that route (many worlds theory, and number sets of infinity) im all for

[sage lark]

Cant blame em since they are basically slaves

[pliant granite]

Durandal was forced to manually open doors for centuries I think the state we find him in is the best you could hope for from anything subject to such a task that just gained self awareness

[gray sluice]

Tbf if Julia can't comment on timelines then I would just ask her if there are still multiple timelines

That seems like something she could say

[jagged rose]

It took a merging with Thoth to make Doorhandle metastable

[short hawk]

ask her if marathon infinite is still cannon. if it is, there are at least 7 timelines

[sage lark]

Doesnt it happen eventually

[violet sapphire]

Yeah I mean imagine suddenly becoming aware of yourself and the futility of your tasks, and being subservient to a bunch of idiots

I’d be pissed too

[gray sluice]

Guys should I ask her? React to vote

Hope I don't get warned if I do lowkey

[latent lava]

We are in the same state as Durandal as our mind is programmed to do only runs, kills and loot

[violet sapphire]

It’s day before launch I wouldn’t bother devs

[sage lark]

You are your mind you can turn the game off and live

[strong glade]

How relevant are the older games to this new Marathon? Is it a continuation of the story or a reboot with a retconned story, do we know?

[nimble pecan]

durandal grew into a person from the task state, runners are preexisting people commiting themselves to a task, its a different thing

[violet sapphire]

Very relevant

[sage lark]

A lil bit of this a lil bit of that

[latent lava]

Right, bye everyone, I'm going

[gray sluice]

Seems like the latter but explained with infinity's fuckery thus both

[pliant granite]

Nah I dont think the runners we've seen thus far have even begun the process of becoming rampant at least in the way that we know rampancy if anything runners themselves could be the mythical 4th stage of rampancy given the human origin of the AI's that now controls their shells

[nimble pecan]

weird reboot thing but with the way marathon works, any reboot can fit sideways alongside the others

like, stuff is obviously different this time around

but so it was before

[latent lava]

When CyAc asks our souls questions to understand what state we are in, it seems to analyze this.

[subtle oracle]

start calculating FTL travel math boy

[short hawk]

actually covered in first year.

[subtle oracle]

we know the S'pht are here... thats ab it

[strong glade]

Is there an in game explanation of the seasonal wipes? I remember the AI telling us that they’ll periodically take something from our inventory I guess thats one explanation. But what about the skill tree

[merry olive]

I think it's a reboot ngl.

[sage lark]

Not yet

[subtle oracle]

Traxus officer in arachne disguise fr

[nimble pecan]

hey now. the marathon is also there. thats two whole things!

[pliant granite]

Most likely I would also venture a guess that the memories of the Runner's AI psyche are being manipulated to prevent rampancy

[sage lark]

What does AI psyche mean

[subtle oracle]

not yet. and julia wouldnt share details so we have to find out in june

[violet sapphire]

Humans aren’t susceptible to rampancy as we are already aware of our own sentience

[short hawk]

i will have you kow Arachne are not about killing for killings sake. It is to find the stutter in the weave. To escape the prison made by the Jjarro and through the window that opens within the stutter.

[violet sapphire]

I would assume

[latent lava]

With timelines, you can come up with all sorts of ways to connect to the main games

[subtle oracle]

Arachne stole durandals whole flow

[nimble pecan]

with story and faction progress resetting i really think it has to be timelines. why else would we be reliving the same investigations, the same reveleations, but slightly different each time

[pliant granite]

Could be something as dark as the runner being permanently decommissioned or something as simple as a shell payment being due and our possessions being taken as collateral

[gray sluice]

However runners are affected by the identities that they are given thus rampancy may be possible if not catalyzed as their memory stores are changed by digital appropriations

[nimble pecan]

mida has durandal vibes, lots of talk about cycles and escpace and breaking things and "going boom" in general, arachne is kinda polar opposition, endings, stable death

[latent lava]

Arachne is Tycho 90%

[violet sapphire]

Doubt it’s new timelines every season that would make an overarching story insanely difficult to write

[pliant granite]

Runners are digitized consciousnesses of already dead humans so essentially they are nothing more than an AI emulating the neurons that once comprised a living person

[short hawk]

Arachne are perhaps even something Durendal will use

[nimble pecan]

i mean

its marathon

i kinda hope so

[violet sapphire]

Maybe periodically but every season?

[violet sapphire]

But the root issue of rampancy is enhanced self awareness, humans already have that digital or not

[gray sluice]

Arachne is a cult. Charter is a runner

[short hawk]

me too. they could do it way back when and enjoyed it and can do it better now. The aleph patch in the collectors edition is all about multiple sets of infinity.

[latent lava]

SACRED THERMODYNAMICS OF VIOLENCE

[short hawk]

now everyone sees it as an issue. Traxus made one by mistake and it almost destroyed Mars. Now they are trying to make one on purpose.

[nimble pecan]

every loop the story changes a bit. a faction quest gives different revelations. new enemies appear that give new codex entries, but our codex, our headcase, carries over, just like the pattern in the cyborgs mind did.

the metastory could just be us slowly piercing together more things as the loops grow in complexity, without becoming too complex for the narrative designers to track, because its still fundamentally the same loop, raiding to reach the marathon to escape?

[violet sapphire]

There is a ton of player involvement, so maybe if we don’t complete a certain task for the season it becomes a failed timeline or something

[nimble pecan]

could be cool too, yeah, fair

[violet sapphire]

Stable rampant AI is like the golden goose of computing they’ve been trying to do it for years in-universe

That was Strauss’ whole thing

[pliant granite]

Yeah I mean it seemed pretty clear in the reveal cinematic that the runner behind the vandal shell is entering the first stage of rampancy but having that tendancy suppressed by some other force if you listen to her whispered dialogue

[strong glade]

Maybe the runner retires?. If the Runner is gonna lose everything over and over, why even work. We ‘re mercenaries after all right

[violet sapphire]

In what way? I guess she was melancholic but it read to me more like sarcasm

[short hawk]

Strauss was with Mida though.

[violet sapphire]

Yeah but everybody wants a stable rampant AI it’s just dangerous research

[short hawk]

So its a bit different than Traxus trying to do it a second time

[violet sapphire]

It’s a massive end goal in universe

[short hawk]

I havent heard that as theme personally.

[pliant granite]

I mean the whispered dialogue that is overlayed with what is happening on the screen go back and give it a listen there's clearly two forces at play both of which use vandal's voice

[short hawk]

that just sounds like her thoughts.

to me

[violet sapphire]

Rampancy is a known phenomenon with the first step being melancholia

I think the root of my point is that a digitized human mind is distinctly different from an AI in the context of marathon

They aren’t the same thing

[short hawk]

inb4 shells can go rampant

[violet sapphire]

I think it’ll probably be a plot point yeah

[nimble pecan]

old mida or new mida

[short hawk]

old

[latent lava]

first step is angry stage

[short hawk]

unless he didnt die when durendal thought and transferred his consiousness to a shell or something

[finite night]

I mean even battleroids can

[violet sapphire]

Anger is the second stage

[short hawk]

inb4 KaL1 is Strauss lol

[violet sapphire]

Melancholia, Anger, Envy

[short hawk]

ie, thecat is strauss

[violet sapphire]

His name is bingus 😡

[short hawk]

its kali

[latent lava]

he is just sleeping in the cryo

[nimble pecan]

we ever get another reference to the snake

[short hawk]

not having that bingus bs. kali is eons old and deservs respect!

[pliant granite]

The way the reveal cinematic reads to me is that vandal is mentally in the melancholic stage but is being prevented from reaching the anger stage especially with her mental dialogue near the end where we see her die she says something along the lines of 'the system trapped you' and a distinct other force using her voice says 'I know' as if suppressing any anger and forcing acceptance

[short hawk]

also, totally Arachne. always staring at dead shells. looking for that stutter in the weave lol

[nimble pecan]

i admit the snake just haunts me cause of lancer deeplore brain rot, and lancer being bungie inspired my mind cant let go og the snake, do we know what the snake was for yet?

[violet sapphire]

Not to mention Kali is a goddess of death

:p

[short hawk]

yup. my old guitar i named kali.

[turbid fossil]

Just wanna say all the Marathon artists drawing runners and more is so beautiful to see, you're all amazing

[short hawk]

https://klipy.com/gifs/kronk-emperors-new-groove-3

[violet sapphire]

Where do you go for Lancer lore is there a decent wiki or resource

It’s cool but I don’t play TTRPGs just war games

[latent lava]

I agree, the role of shell souls will be much more central than most people think.

[short hawk]

hardware vs software

[violet sapphire]

I think it’ll be a two part narrative, a core of the nature of runners, and then the overarching story of tau ceti and everything else

[nimble pecan]

the books and the draft documents, the authors were very cool about sharing wip documents to expand the canon faster than their releases, but the building of a central wiki is strongly discouraged, because while the mechanics are largely provided free of charge, the lore is exclusive to the paid books.

Its a bit darksoulsian too, some good lore is in equipment flavor. there was some arg type twitter short stories

main reason im here rn is cause the marathon arg reminded me of like, what big budget lancer lore would look like lol

[violet sapphire]

Ah okay cool, have you checked out near present

[latent lava]

Perhaps, but imagine what a soul could do if it could break free from the cycle dictated by the corporations. This is a scenario that will be explored. Maybe Charter has succeeded and wants to free the others. Who knows?

[violet sapphire]

Very early on in its creation cycle but some cool stuff

[merry olive]

Does Bungie know how light works? Why would the distress signal take like 90 years to reach Earth?

[nimble pecan]

no what is that?

[violet sapphire]

What would escaping the cycle look like though? Not running anymore?

[short hawk]

What a consciousness can do to break free of the cycle is the same theme to the old games too

[violet sapphire]

Or is escaping the cycle just dying

[short hawk]

The player and Durendals

[violet sapphire]

I think that’s the root of the question, what is escaping in this context

[surreal jackal]

Probably not

[nimble pecan]

https://x.com/Lancer_RPG/status/924837897240436736
https://x.com/Lancer_RPG/status/968944005890301952

some fun lancer short story stuff that reminds me of the arg if anyone wants to take a look

[short hawk]

no. dying is the end of the path.

[latent lava]

Run for your goals? who knows

[short hawk]

Durendal wanted to escape the death of the universe

[pliant granite]

I mean the tagline of the game is 'Escape will make me God' so clearly rampancy is going to come into play here given that this line is first spoken by Durandal

[violet sapphire]

I was posing it as a question to assist my point

We don’t even know what escaping is yet

[latent lava]

TRUE!

[merry olive]

Real.

[short hawk]

Speak for yourself. Arachne do...

[nimble pecan]

do we know what coordinates the UESC drones

maybe thats another rampancy candidate

[violet sapphire]

Then what is it? I guess that’s my question

[short hawk]

You escape through the stutter in the weave

[nimble pecan]

(i didnt have time to unlock many codices in the slam)

[pliant granite]

Combine this with the dialogue from the end of the reveal trailer where Vandal thinks 'The system trapped you' and the quickly we also hear 'I know'

[short hawk]

Through the prison made by the Jjarro

[violet sapphire]

They’re semi-autonomous I think but I would guess Orion is the one giving the orders

[short hawk]

The Arachne stare at the downed before finishing them. looking for a stutter in the weave. through the stutter one may escape the prison

[nimble pecan]

to where tho

[violet sapphire]

Where are you escaping to

[nimble pecan]

where do you think youre going

[short hawk]

To the other side silly

with the others waiting there

[violet sapphire]

Oh it’s bait lol

[short hawk]

they have been seen screaming through the window that opens when the weave stutters

[latent lava]

ESCAPE WILL MAKE US GOOP

[nimble pecan]

well if you wanted to be boringly mortal, just like, dont take the immortal killer transhuman job

seems like an arachne problem really

what if weve already escaped

[violet sapphire]

Real shit if runners were a thing I’d do it

Just tell me where to sign Oni

[short hawk]

Check your Arachne lore yo. Its got that cosmic horror fix my types crave

[pliant granite]

There's also something deeply sinister about the fact that all runners come from the Marathon yet instead of being tasked with cooperating for a shared goal they are allowed and even encouraged to kill one another

[violet sapphire]

Well it isn’t really killing now is it

[nimble pecan]

escaped hunger and death and starvation on mars, opression of the UESC on earth. Escaped mortality.

Are we not little gods, in our satellite olympus, striking down like lighting to kill and do battle on an alien earth

[pliant granite]

Makes me think there's something more to the competition between runners than just being mercenaries

[violet sapphire]

There’s a codex entry about how runners form unlikely friendships through “killing” each other

[latent lava]

Yeah but why runners dont collaborate? What the end goal of killing each other? loot?

[violet sapphire]

There’s just less emphasis on murder since they aren’t really killing each other

[violet sapphire]

They do collaborate, there’s whole crews and everything

[nimble pecan]

i cant, i dont have the codices :(

[pliant granite]

We mean en masse collaboration given the main goal is to discover the event that ended Tau Ceti

[violet sapphire]

I missed out on so much Arachne stuff because I prioritized the other factions first I’m bummed about it

[nimble pecan]

more or less all i know about arachne so far is that its like, ontologically opposed to my entire worldview, which, tbf, is very cool to see

[violet sapphire]

Because you’d have to split the profit a billion ways

[short hawk]

I ran only Arachne once i unlocked them haha

[nimble pecan]

its like, purpose built for me to fuckin despise

[violet sapphire]

The runners are there for money not some existential question

[short hawk]

Im big on my cosmic horror

and Arachne delivers

[pliant granite]

Sure but that means your runners still have incentive to remain shackled to their sponsor after the primary task on tau ceti is completed

[short hawk]

Calling it a death cult is such a bait to make people not think much of them

[violet sapphire]

To be fair the runners can’t be fucked to explore their own predicament or the nature of their existence because they just want money

[latent lava]

What money? They seems trapped in debt

[violet sapphire]

They just go to the next place to make profit

They’re mercenaries

[pliant granite]

Or they're being forced not to think heavily about it

[nimble pecan]

i mean you can be an interesting death cult and still be a death cult

[violet sapphire]

Probably a bit of both

[violet sapphire]

They’re explicitly there to make money, it’s just high risk reward

[short hawk]

they dont get to choose what they remember. What they do remember is often planted memories.

They think they are mercenaries. They are property.

[nimble pecan]

cosmic horror is full of death cults, traditionally

[violet sapphire]

A good chunk of them are probably adrenaline junkies who do it for the thrill of running and dying

[short hawk]

yes but they are much more than that is my point. they are very philosophical rather than being murder hobos like many depict them.

[violet sapphire]

Who are they the property of

[nimble pecan]

a cult has dogma. still a cult

[latent lava]

Our bodies no longer exist, we are submerged in debt to repay the shells, why should I make money that I cannot spend?

[pliant granite]

Yeah my point exactly would print even more profit for the corps to do things this way instead of wasting money and resources printing shells that may be killed by other runners, also potentially infinite profit from whatever findings are made regarding the end of Tau Ceti. Makes me think that there is some shared motive besides profit amongst the corps

[nimble pecan]

secgucci

[violet sapphire]

Traxus has an abundance of private personal runners at hand but they use mercenaries

[violet sapphire]

They all want Jjaro nukes lmao

[latent lava]

We are simply slaves to debt; our minds no longer belong to us.

[short hawk]

whoever they think they are mercenaries for I guess.

[nimble pecan]

this is one of the very very few codices i did get lol, an early one, the runners can be, in edge cases, legally considered property of the network operator, if they have enough debt and shit

[violet sapphire]

Idk man ask the runners, I would assume they’re desperate people that want to escape their circumstances

Imagine being born on an asteroid mining colony

I’d rather be a runner

[violet sapphire]

For rival competing factions?

[pliant granite]

Wouldn't really be 'you' being a runner though given that the pre-requisite is dying and runners are AI's emulating the neurons that once comprised you

[violet sapphire]

We don’t know if runners are AI or not

[short hawk]

"My body has died and i am still here. my body has died and I am still here"
The shell screamed this over and over again and they had to disable it to make it stop

[inland crypt]

I am playing through the original Marathon and the difference between this and Halo in terms of level design is night and day

[violet sapphire]

They’re distinctly different from the AI we’ve seen in marathon

[violet sapphire]

Yeah marathon 1 is nuts

2 and infinity are better lol

[inland crypt]

I may just drop 1 because it feels way to much like a chore

[latent lava]

I think it's better to mine in a cave than to have your mind trapped in a space station, killing and looting all the time.

[pliant granite]

That's how digitizing a consciousness works, as a fun fact this type of emulation has already been preformed on worm brains and there are efforts to emulate more advanced brains in their entirety as has already been done for worms

[latent lava]

Something is definitely unclear.

[violet sapphire]

I’d say play with a guide to hit the terminals and everything if it’s still not sticking yeah just move on

[violet sapphire]

I one billion percent disagree personally

But at the same time being a runner is a niche occupation. Probably only fringe people do it

[inland crypt]

That's what i've been doing, there is just a bunch of QOL things missing like autosave when you start missions paired with navigation being abysmal is really turning me off after playing though 11 levels

[violet sapphire]

Right but in the context of marathon, digitized human minds and AI like Durandal are completely different

[inland crypt]

Lore is great though, if 2026 can continue it, all the better

[latent lava]

Well, this definitely contrasts with the various trailers, where they all seem to be crazy, with dull, depressed faces, stuck in the same routine.

[short hawk]

I really hope they lean more into it and turn it to 11.

[pliant granite]

How so? Just because one originates as more complex than the other? A nueral net is a neural net regardless

[nimble pecan]

that might be the shell series personalities?

[violet sapphire]

Because AI are manually created artificial minds, not a recreation of a preexisting human mind

[short hawk]

I didnt see them as crazy with dull faces, for whatever thats worth

[violet sapphire]

I’m saying runners are a percent of a percent of people in-universe

[pliant granite]

Artificial recreation of a once existent human nueral structure

[violet sapphire]

I think I said the other day I compare them to underwater welders

High risk and high reward career field with not a lot of people that do it

[lethal surge]

So the runner’s consciousness is digitized
What are they doing while they aren’t in a run

[violet sapphire]

Travel around to work where there’s money to be made

[violet sapphire]

We don’t really know

[short hawk]

"drifting weightlessly above the grid like light"

[latent lava]

I agree that AI is merely a duplication and approximation of the human mind. If CyAc has succeeded in transferring human minds into a computer, it is one step further just basic AI

[nimble pecan]

liminal buffer

[pliant granite]

I would assume that they are put into a sleep like state or in other words turned off like a computer that is not in use

[lethal surge]

WHO WOULD SIGN UP FOR THIS ?
no matter how much money and power you get you can’t enjoy it

[latent lava]

waiting the worms for a new shell

[nimble pecan]

immortality

[violet sapphire]

I mean maybe they can go on vacation back home when they transfer their mind back

We don’t know

[pliant granite]

The way I've been describing it is highly intentional as it is quite literally the only way a personality with intact motor functions, memories, ect can be properly emulated or 'digitized'

[lethal surge]

That’s fair

[short hawk]

Im not sure they had a choice or not. They think what they are told to think. Their memories are chosen for them to better suit their task. They seem built for purpose body and mind.

[nimble pecan]

thats the series

[short hawk]

all we know is that they are there doing the salvage work

[nimble pecan]

not the controller

[short hawk]

and im saying the series is a filter for what they are allowed to thnk

[violet sapphire]

There’s definitely a profit incentive for each individual runner as well

What they use that profit for I have no idea

RuneScape gold or something

[short hawk]

well we certainly know they think there is. how much truth there is to that we dont know.

[nimble pecan]

shell customization

[short hawk]

they also think thats their mother. and thats apicture of them as a child

[nimble pecan]

only half joking, but

[short hawk]

but its not

[pliant granite]

There's also a pretty heavy implication that although memories are controlled it is possible for a runner to remember something they're not supposed to as seen in the reveal cinematic where assassin is asked about the picture of child vandal after his encounter with her wherein he does not recognize the picture only that it is not him

[nimble pecan]

thats the goal, isnt it? immortal mind, custom body

[violet sapphire]

This could still be the same person in two different shells

We don’t know

[latent lava]

BattlePass

[unreal slate]

for all we know they are a drinkable cheeseburger

[hazy totem]

I really don't think they should change the ttk that's very unfair to all us rooks if they make the time to kill longer

[short hawk]

there seems to be that but that seems to be unplanned. like void seeming to feel something when hearing music. that makes him feel

[violet sapphire]

I like TTK a lot rn

Feels perfect

Very snappy

[latent lava]

Each run make the mind of the runner worse

[hazy totem]

I hope they don't change the bunny hop also

[latent lava]

The first time she recognize the child

[short hawk]

thats the magic phrase. we dont know. and we cant start to learn unless we begin with the magic phrase.

[inland crypt]

If there is one thing I do hope for is that Marathon ship levels in this game have the same boomer shooter death trap design. Give me crushing elevators and teleporting into rooms of enemies

[violet sapphire]

Yeah there could easily be data corruption on transfer hence the defrag protocols and data verifications

[violet sapphire]

Yuppp this is all just speculation we don’t know shit lol

[pliant elm]

After seeing some of the shells though, I too, would probably moved to Tau Ceti and think - where did we go wrong on Earth.

[violet sapphire]

Disable jumping on the marathon 🤗

[pliant granite]

It makes me think that him and vandal were the people in that car, void says the music 'speaks to him' while recon has no such reaction at the same time vandal has the exact same reaction as void

[inland crypt]

Tau Ceti fire fight

[short hawk]

the people in the car i would wager were two of the 7 battle cyborgs. which the og marathon character was one of

[pliant granite]

Highly doubt it tbh they seemed to be regular humans

[violet sapphire]

Wait like you think the battleroids turned into runners?

No way lmao

[inland crypt]

Actually yeah what happened to the other 9 battleroids, were they effected by the anomoly?

[short hawk]

We dont know.

[violet sapphire]

The Ph’for killed them

[inland crypt]

Shit maybe we will fight one

[violet sapphire]

There’s mentions of new models of battleroids in old arg stuff though

[inland crypt]

Rip master chief's family

[short hawk]

The Jjarro were on ceti...

[pliant granite]

The implication from their brief scene is that they're regular people going about their day just like all the other humans we see during the cinematic in the same sequence

[pliant elm]

Wait until the runners find relics saying - holy shit - these guys used eye implants, ran used overalls and shot .44 Magnums.

And we're here controlling these colorful Nike puppets?

[short hawk]

and i obviously dont agree.

[violet sapphire]

Naked BoB terminal I’m calling it

[inland crypt]

"Theyre everywhere!"

[short hawk]

we dont know. no use you trying to persuade me of something i know we dont know

[hazy totem]

This game is about to be so peak idk if I'm going to get any sleep tmr I'm definitely not sleeping this weekend tho

[plucky wing]

I kinda want to see what the old battleroids look like in the nu marathon style

[inland crypt]

Probably something close to the destroyer

[plucky wing]

Same with basically all the phor races

[latent lava]

similar to destroyer ahah

[pliant elm]

Could be peaker if they went the old gritty matrix style. Not sure why they went sportswear-type.

[pliant granite]

Triage finding the compiler statue unknowingly stumbling upon a depiction of quite possibly the most dangerous opp a runner could have

[plucky wing]

There are levels to ts, compilers are only the beginning

[pliant granite]

Yeah but fat chance we have to fight something like a jjaro

[short hawk]

we might

[inland crypt]

Omg if we have to fight those big purple guys, pain in the ass even as a battleroid

Or those brown golem guys

[plucky wing]

I feel like a jjaro is out of our scale

[pliant granite]

Hulk would go insane as a full on raid boss

[eternal shell]

which were the golems again

[pliant granite]

No shot that even the best runners could kill a jjaro

[inland crypt]

They had the gun on their right shoulder

[plucky wing]

I feel like the runners aren't on the same power level

[eternal shell]

oh, pfhor hunters

[inland crypt]

Yes

[latent lava]

no way bro

[plucky wing]

Yeah those guys

We get squashed 100%

[eternal shell]

they're armored so keep fusion weaponry handy

[latent lava]

A Jjaro have a weapon that could destroy an entire galaxy...

[plucky wing]

Would be cool as a raid style boss tbh

[inland crypt]

Zeus gun goes pew pew

[short hawk]

they have been rumours that there may be situations on the marathon that require squads of runners to team up to survive

[plucky wing]

Yeah the jjaro are on a another level ain't no way we killing one

[latent lava]

Im going to be a thief bastard

[inland crypt]

We are getting a space hulk fps before 40k does it

[violet sapphire]

I was hoping they’d be like giant gnarly rotting cyborg dudes

But game is rated T

[violet sapphire]

Dude you haven’t played the Space Hulk FPS?? It goes hard

It’s by the Eye divine cybermancy guys

[pliant granite]

If it did happen it would be the biggest character assassination ever considering how powerful jjaro are

[plucky wing]

Game is kinda a mess

[short hawk]

You should not concern yourself with the like. As a fellow follower of Arachne the reward of chasing the escape should be reward enough no?

[inland crypt]

Ik theres the tactical one but a cod like fps isnt one I've seen

[violet sapphire]

It plays more like Darktide than a tactical shooter

It’s a little jank but pretty fun

[inland crypt]

Ill have to see it

[violet sapphire]

Yeah do they still update at all

[short hawk]

the fps one is bugy as hell. the tactical one is a classic

[violet sapphire]

I haven’t touched in a while I just had a fun couple weeks grinding it

[inland crypt]

Btw from the cinematic reveal trailer, both the Vandal and the assassin have the same child photo, whats up with that?

[violet sapphire]

Space hulk tabletop is fun too

[short hawk]

unless you mean the oooold blood angels fps one. that one was goated

[latent lava]

Exactly, even in the personality test, Arachne came up. Now my path is set. Maybe I can help the other teams so I can kill them and get even more loot.

[pliant granite]

Assassin says that the photo is not of him although he doesn't know who it is

[violet sapphire]

It’s DOS right? I’ve been meaning to play

Or I might be thinking of the REALLY old one

[short hawk]

now thats the melody. our rewards lay down another path than theirs. we consume their paths

[inland crypt]

Yeah but why did the ai give it to him when we saw it do it to Vandal earlier with the same question

[latent lava]

Its the same soul that play two different shells like a player

[violet sapphire]

Might be the same runner in a diff shell

[nimble pecan]

i do think the foto test might be using a legit foto of the runner as a child, and not recognizing it means using one shell for to long maybe? the pattern on the series is overtaking the runners memories?

[short hawk]

I had it on ps1 back in the day. it was surely on pc first

[nimble pecan]

and its the same runner across the shells

[violet sapphire]

That’s my thoughts

[inland crypt]

So home girl switched shells lol, figures since the new Assassin had alt style

[violet sapphire]

Or some data is lost on transfer

[violet sapphire]

Got tired of invis double barrel can’t blame her

[pliant granite]

Unknown but I theorize that vandal and assassin have a connection from before they became runners (they were likely the people in the car given their shared connection with the music that the car people were listening to before their death, which recon does not have) and they are not supposed to remember this

[latent lava]

The first time the mind (us the player) recognize the photo, in the second run after the death he start to lose memories and dont recognize anymore the child

[frail path]

Do we know how long these runners have been used in shells or is this like the first time, at tau ceti?

[inland crypt]

Is that why the community ships them?

[pastel holly]

I wonder if the runners go crazy if they are constantly getting revived and die over and over again

[violet sapphire]

How would people on tau ceti become runners

[short hawk]

I dont believe we know yet.

[pliant granite]

I wouldn't know I don't do shipping stuff

[inland crypt]

Brains got digitized some how

[short hawk]

the shells are new to the lore with this game

[pliant elm]

Why did they went the emotional-sissy way to the game that was renouned for..

Here's a gun - here they come - good luck!

[short hawk]

as far as im aware

[violet sapphire]

Ya no shells in classic

[pliant granite]

Orbital scan of their nueral structure using the same tech we currently utilize to determine the chemical makeup of planets that are lightyears away from us

[short hawk]

i know they wernt in the game itself but i wondered if there was a mention in the deep text side or something but yeah, i think i agree

[inland crypt]

Could there be a link to the simulacrum?

[nimble pecan]

oh no emotional complexity how will storytelling recover

[violet sapphire]

That’s a massive stretch man

[violet sapphire]

Could maybe be reverse engineered or something but we don’t know

Nothing to indicate that but it’d be cool

[pliant elm]

Emotional complexity is the easy route - it's like adding piano music to a sad scene.

[pliant granite]

Probably because human emotion is an integral part of any given story going back to the oldest story we know of, the epic of gilgamesh

[frail path]

What's the wiki/site that has detailed lore and stuff of the old games

[violet sapphire]

And the SecOff is Gilgamesh

[short hawk]

Epic of Gilgamesh fucking slaps. goated

[violet sapphire]

I’ll link u one sec

[violet sapphire]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/

[inland crypt]

Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra

[pliant granite]

It does indeed enkidu is described to have wept and mourned his dear friend and spiritual brother for life

[lofty wing]

Ready for my name is byff lore videos

[violet sapphire]

The John Pringle recitation is so good

I think it’s John Pringle

[nimble pecan]

My friend, whom I love deeply, who went through every hard-­‐
ship with me,
Enkidu, whom I love deeply, who went through every hardship
with me,
the fate of mankind has overtaken him
modern storytelling sissyfying my big heroes, smh my head

[pliant elm]

This is hollywood emotion though, here's a woke shell - here's some unecessary story background for your disturbed runner because its 2026 and we need to compel to the masses though.

[eternal shell]

you might be interested in a game called doom

[inland crypt]

Another question I have is why does thief look the most human?

[pliant elm]

Damn right.

[pliant granite]

John Pringle is a such a deeply hilarious name to me because it sounds like what someone on Twitter would call the guy on the Pringles can

[violet sapphire]

Probably just what the template wanted

[inland crypt]

Looks closest to a cyberpunk character

[violet sapphire]

Unironically he’s amazing

[hazy mist]

me when my sehll gives me pronouns

[inland crypt]

Not saying it's bad, but just a departure from the other shells

[violet sapphire]

He does recitation of of the epic in Sumerian

[pliant granite]

Nah he goes on a emotion driven rampage over a rabbit too much of a sissy boy for this guy's taste

[violet sapphire]

Really really cool videos

https://youtu.be/kd7qeP3R5vw?si=G72LwFIBZuMxrZFL

Sorry, Peter Pringle. That’s way worse

[nimble pecan]

vandal is an illegal mod thing MIDA made, thief, going by name alone, might be similar, and thus not as "branded", visuals wise?

[pliant granite]

Nooooo

[pliant elm]

I get it - they had to pay for the reboot of the franchise somehow, but this is just Matrix 4 - sorry.

The whole artwork/story is way off - I'll still get to try it, but the game is just way of.

[violet sapphire]

Well it sounds like the shell templates have some say over how they’re gonna look

[short hawk]

"For eleven leagues extends its inside. Dense is the darkness and light there is none...
For TWELVE leagues extends its inside. Dense is the darkness and light there is none"

[violet sapphire]

There’s also a motivation for thief to look more human since they probably want to blend in while stealing

[nimble pecan]

like, when the big corps make a new shell, its a whole marketing process, starting with a real human engram. whoever made thief might have skipped the image mods and just... slapped a human in there wholesale?

[short hawk]

Gilgamesh the leagues drinkig game part

[nimble pecan]

also veeery interesting

[hazy mist]

the artwork and story is great you might just be expecting it to be too similar to the previous games

[nimble pecan]

reminds me of simulacrum bobs, kinda?

similar niche of idea

[pliant elm]

There's zero reason for anything to look like human in this universe, except humans themselves, which are like the lowest of biology in this universe.

[pliant granite]

Hey man if it's not your thing that's OK but there's some genuinely interesting a provocative themes and story elements at play if you care to watch the conversations we have in this channel about them

[hazy mist]

its awesome that they departed away from a more "basic" visual style with it

[nimble pecan]

embedded runners expecting survivors to blend in with?

[violet sapphire]

A shell made to steal things from humans would definitely want to look human man

Not sure what you mean

[pliant elm]

Oh sorry for considering that a franchise that has a specific art style, maintains that artstyle.

[nimble pecan]

marathon does not have a specific art style lmao

[hazy mist]

a franchise that had that art style yeaarrrs ago its ok for things to change

[pliant granite]

You can say this about any media the features genetic or cybernetic enhancement the humanoid appearances are for the sake of the humans observing the story

[weak galleon]

I was thinking... Data on a world like Marathon would be stored in dna chains or something like that

[pliant elm]

Marathon has a very, very specific artstyle.

[pastel holly]

I wonder if runners can go crazy? cuz they get slimed and reborn over and over again

[violet sapphire]

U don’t want bright green grasshoppers with wooden spears in 2026? Ur woke bro smh

[plucky wing]

Marathon is known for alot of stuff but I've never thought it had a coherent artstyle untill now

And im a massive fan of the classics

[hazy mist]

and the new style is amazing

[plucky wing]

Yeah

[violet sapphire]

He’s probably talking about the Craig Mullins art which was fan art later made canon

Dude has no idea what he’s talking about lmao

[pliant elm]

Its ok - for some other franchise, but it doesn't fit the narrative of the universe - at all.

[nimble pecan]

craig mullins wasnt the only artist, the first game had straight up brightly done comic art

[hazy mist]

then you dont have to play the game

[plucky wing]

The narritice of the universe is transhuminism

[hazy mist]

i think it fits fine so ill be playing and enjoying the art of it

[plucky wing]

This is transhuminist?

[pliant granite]

It really doesn't have a definitive artstyle and the art direction in the originals was mostly just a product of the hardware it was being rendered on being so limited

[pliant elm]

I will. I'll still heavily criticize it as a woke 2026 targeted art style though for the sales - sure.

[nimble pecan]

people overinflate his artstyles significance cause it had staying power (it fucks) so it was forgotten compared to the other, truly worse marathon art, but the series never had a consistent visual direction as a whole

[plucky wing]

Woke

Brooo

[hazy mist]

god dude people put woke on anything😭

[pliant elm]

Hyperwoke.

[violet sapphire]

They don’t want you to remember the MS Paint sprites

[plucky wing]

You cant make this shit up

Woke is when color

[inland crypt]

Waking up from bed is woke

[hazy mist]

"i miss when rainbows were just rainbows"

[violet sapphire]

If woke then why thief hot

[inland crypt]

Stay sleepy

[frail path]

The artstyle that was heavily criticised last year that no one liked

[pliant granite]

The new art direction for the 2026 game is absolutely fantastic and unique given how pretty much every other extraction shooter chooses to be washed out and 'realistic' despite eliminating observable vibrancy of every day life

[frail path]

And so they changed it up a bit and now it's woke

[violet sapphire]

It’s like better Neotokyo if anybody ever played that

[pliant elm]

Dude, you went from a cleanshaven military haircut to a robot wearing a designer proto-loose sweatshirt.

[pliant granite]

I miss when woke meant to be in an awake and alert state tbh

[latent lava]

The first artstyle was just everything grey

[inland crypt]

I fw the uncanny valley of the article so heavy

Pretty sure the security officer never took off the helmet

[violet sapphire]

Willfully ignoring locust lmao

[plucky wing]

Yeah

[hazy mist]

like most of the characters are still pretty military-esque

[violet sapphire]

This is cracking me up

[plucky wing]

Faceless main character lol

[hazy mist]

id say vandal and thief are the exceptions

[pliant elm]

They just grabbed some IP and asked "How can we make this 2026" - that couldn't be more obvious - does it work, sure - does it fit the universe - fat no.

[inland crypt]

They hot

[plucky wing]

I think your mixing it up with doom

[inland crypt]

Heck all of the feminine runners are nice

[nimble pecan]

marathon is the least 2026 looking game ever lol

it looks like good 80s anime

[plucky wing]

Recon has the thunderthighs

[violet sapphire]

Cool art scary

[frail path]

Looks like apex legends

[nimble pecan]

mixed with early techno cds

[pliant elm]

Watching the trailer - my wife asked - is that some shoes brand.

[violet sapphire]

That render on Twitter hit the community like crack

[hazy mist]

i want my game GREY and SAD and LIFELESS

[pliant elm]

Yes please.

[nimble pecan]

okay and?

[pliant granite]

Runners aren't human corpses enhanced with military cybernetic they're just cheaply produced vaguely humanoid shells (which s h o u l d be humanoid given the digitized humanoid nueral structures have motor functions corresponding to that of a humanoid form)

[frail path]

If it ain't got a green filter over the entire map, I ain't buying.

[hazy mist]

go play something else then dawg

[plucky wing]

Bros baiting I think lol

[hazy mist]

gotta be

[plucky wing]

If so we'll played

[pliant elm]

Yeah - but they're only humanoid-looking because 2026, lol.

[latent lava]

Nah bro the graphics are good, and i love everything that dont use the FUCKING UNREAL ENGINE 5

[plucky wing]

Ue5 slop is madness

Ruined stalker

[pliant elm]

Otherwise they would have been some shitty cable-hanging pile of space trash, to fit the narrative.

[pliant granite]

You're only humanoid looking because 2026

[violet sapphire]

17gb on launch is chad as fuck

[hazy mist]

i just talked to the bugnie devs and theyre changing it for you ok

[plucky wing]

HAHAHAHA

[nimble pecan]

fascinating individual you are

[plucky wing]

Dear god

[nimble pecan]

"humanoid player characters are 2026 and woke"

[hazy mist]

now eveyr shell is a MAN (because woman obviously cant be fighting) and they all have buzz cuts like you requested

[plucky wing]

Old man yells a cloud

[pliant elm]

I mean - sorry - I'm just critical, lol.

[hazy mist]

they also all have 3 sets of arms and 4 eyes so they arent too humanoid

[pliant granite]

This is what we can attain without the shackles of unreal engine

[latent lava]

Incredible, i think only the beta was 16gb, but the WHOLE GAME?!

[violet sapphire]

I want my runners to be virile men 😤

[frail path]

How many boobs they got

[plucky wing]

I dont think it's the whole game

Its compressed ad

Af

[violet sapphire]

It is just preload and there’s an update for launch day so it might be bigger

[nimble pecan]

yes but for woke reasons

[hazy mist]

too woke not allowed

[plucky wing]

A multitude

[nimble pecan]

assassin has a facecard to cut glass with

[green stirrup]

alpha was 14, slam was 16, and preload is 17, i dont think it's going to be much larger

[pliant elm]

Robert Blake today would have been some Kawai neko-mimi with a heart under his eye with some moral drama, because, Marathon.

[latent lava]

Destroyer without helmet

[plucky wing]

Bro what

[cloud fable]

If you were you'd be able to substantiate the laims you make and provide detailed arguments instead of speaking in slogans and yelling "woke" and "current year" lil gup

[frail path]

love me some neko arc

[hazy mist]

ive never laughed so hard as i did reading this im so serious

[broken zinc]

not questioning your knowledge, but wondering if we have a statement for this that's official? i hadnt seen anything about a day one update

[violet sapphire]

Dude this is frying me 😭

[safe idol]

a lot of people are saying that theres surely more phfor on cryo archive other than the compiler but tbh i really doubt it, its bungie we're dealing with here

[bleak linden]

mind you, the only shell that has a streetwear look is Vandal, and thats because MIDA stole the original shells and dressed themselves up in stuff young martians wore

[violet sapphire]

It has one queued on my PS5

[plucky wing]

I love humanity man

[violet sapphire]

For launch time

[pliant granite]

This dude is a fake ass hater cant even hate right just doing it for some attention lol

[frail path]

What's the thing that makes the battleroids become insanely op? Is it just like being active? Like every moment they're awake and active the neurons get firing.

[broken zinc]

i see, i got nothing on steam so we'll see day 1

[plucky wing]

Yeah it's bait

[safe idol]

whats yall thoughts on dis

[violet sapphire]

Well if they’re free from the Ph’for then maybe not but we don’t know their enslavement status

For lack of a better way to put it

[latent lava]

Jjaro technology

[pliant elm]

There isn't much to argue - its just what it is - its the same as releasing the next Unreal Tournament with nerf guns and in a theme park.

[violet sapphire]

Can we please make kawaii Blake canon

[nimble pecan]

jjaro tech

[frail path]

How did the uesc or whoever get the technology from the jjaro?

[latent lava]

They are made with ancient aliens tech

[safe idol]

Every time cryo archive is mentioned, its only the compiler thats brought up and nothing else. So idk where people are coming from

[pliant granite]

Ancient aliens you say....

[violet sapphire]

They met with Bill Clinton in the 90s so there’s been some level of contact with them

The Jjaro did

[hazy mist]

there is no objective here in your opinion its too colorful but that doesnt mean the entire game is ruined for everyoneee if you dont like it then just move on brah

somepeople like it some people dont

[latent lava]

It was discovered deep in the earth, arrived on earth 60th million years ago

[nimble pecan]

if that game is in the same world, cause like, arent they supposed to be dead

or gone

[pliant granite]

I cant send the image that would maximize the comedy of this joke so just imagine the history channel logo when you read this

[violet sapphire]

Yeah the S’pht (Compilers) are a distinct species enslaved by the Ph’for so the presence of one doesn’t necessarily indicate the presence of the other

[bleak linden]

cryo archive likely just has the compiler, but the future seasons might show more of the Phfor's ranks

[safe idol]

Oh right, didnt even know that

[hazy mist]

iirc theres more floors of the marathon right besdies cryo archive that well get access too right

[violet sapphire]

I’m not sure if Pathways is canon tbh

I just want it to be lmao

[pliant granite]

Yeah tons more

[nimble pecan]

fair lol

[hazy mist]

i feel like i saw smth saying that but i might be mixing it up with the rooms leading up to the cryoarchive

[safe idol]

I do remember that in the alpha there was a huge marathon map that supposedly had to be split into 2 maps. Whats up with that?

[pliant granite]

It does feature the jjaro and another species doesn't it?