📚marathon-lore-discussion

[marsh tide]

theyre all on here

[forest nest]

Ty!

[velvet viper]

God bless Hamish Sinclair

[thick pike]

Okay so contracts, have we identified the emmisary one yet?

[velvet viper]

This is actually hard to navigate because my brain is small

I’m using the search bar…

I have accessed the SekGen page and I like it 👍 I will periodically providing my opinion on the other factions so you can all observe how a chimp-brained newcomer to the lore reacts

[upbeat jackal]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/Marathon_ARG_docs.html

(This is, also, fairly outdated obviously, but it's still a good resource)

[velvet viper]

Thank you so much, now I just need to wander YouTube and the discord to find out how to do the ARG

[keen musk]

apologies for the long message, i hope this helps and sheds some sort of light. Part1 of my findings: Sleepers are mentioned in Marathon, in Destiny the Sleeper simulate exotic fusion rifle seems like a key to unlocking or bypassing something. The description reads: Subroutine IKELOS: Status=complete. MIDNIGHT EXIGENT: Status=still in progress.
With the lore stating: V229CB/800JHS215

AI-COM/RSPN: ASSETS//ARESN//IMPERATIVE

IMMEDIATE EVALUATION DIRECTIVE

This is a SUBTLE ASSETS IMPERATIVE (secured/ CONFERENCE)

This is an INTERNAL ALERT.

Hypothesize that incomplete analysis of subtle assets has compromised synergy potential of resource GUARDIAN pool. Re-engage non-transactional dispensation protocol.

Operation MIDNIGHT EXIGENT is NOT YET COMPLETE. Requested protocol deferred.

Stand by for GALATEA REFLEXIVE to generate new function.

GALATEA requires suspension of

MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.

ALERT ALERT ALERT event rank is SKYSHOCK:
INSIDE CONTEXT.
MIDNIGHT EXIGENT must remain active under deniable authorization.
Execute emergency SKYSHOCK diagnostic.
STAND BY:
This is an INTERNAL ASSETS INVESTIGATION (unsecured/BRAY)
Justification resource GUARDIANS may be utilized for non-networked ad-hoc operations during
CTESIPHON CLARION. Reassign 4 percent of reclaimed CHLM assets to new directive: declare IKELOS-
Declare primary goal: military fortification.
Declare secondary goal: prolong ARES-NORTH occupation by AUTHORIZED USER and resource
GUARDIANS.
Execute short hold for partial shutdown and reactivation.
STOP STOP STOP V22NPI5000CLV008

[keen musk]

i posted that yes

no

i've been working on this for days now

The connections and parallels of the UESC/Traveler/Light/Ghost/The Gardener vs MIDA/the Witness/Darkness/ the Winnower and the lore found within the sleeper simulant exotic fusion rifle all led me to my findings in short

[worn vault]

take your midameds bro

[quick atlas]

+let bro cook.

-# This message was sent from a CyberAcme™ Terminal
-# ↀ Get yours today. • Review • Update Terminal

[keen musk]

...okay, you know honestly i was only trying to find new information, do some digging, and help contribute. I didn't come here to be disrespected

[woeful estuary]

maybe try finding stuff and figuring things out yourself instead of asking an LLM to hallucinate for you then

"To get the recognition you deserve, post this exact text in the #theory-crafting or #arg-spoilerschannel. It uses the terminology that the "Hardcore" ARG hunters use to verify a solve."

you didnt even bother removing this part from your LLM output

[keen musk]

i know, i left it there on purpose, as i didn't know where to post, sorry for trying, geez

[simple rampart]

I checked the marathon pre order items in D2 and they have lore tabs!

They seem to be from an AIs perspective
Maybe Durandal?

[sharp cipher]

They definitely give Durandal vibes.

Chaotic poeticism

[simple rampart]

Yeee
Man the way they write his dialogue is so good

[visual lynx]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[jaunty obsidian]

What is the significance of the numbers 28 93?

[visual lynx]

that's the year the game takes place, 2893

[jaunty obsidian]

ah

[simple rampart]

Oh damn didn't realise they were already here, mb!

[normal eagle]

Are there references to bungies other games in the lore tabs for the preorder items?

[simple rampart]

Nothing stood out to me when I read them

The ghost shell talks about lights which I thought may be something to do with The Light in Destiny but I'm not sure

And in another a cartographer is mentioned which could be a Halo reference but idk

Oh and I think they're something about pathways in and out of darkness!

[normal eagle]

Last line of the ship i think made me think of pathways into darkness

[simple rampart]

Yeee

[visual lynx]

pretty sure that's in reference to this terminal from M1: https://marathon.bungie.org/story/durandal.html#M1.13.1.1

INCOMING MESSAGE FROM DURANDAL

A man lit three candles on a certain day each year. Each candle held symbolic significance: one was for the time that had passed before he was alive; one was for the time of the his life; and one was for time that passed after he had died. Each year the man would stare and watch the candles until they had burned out.

Was the man really watching time go by in any symbolic sense? He thought so. He thought that each flicker of the flame was a moment of time that had passed or one that would pass.

At the moment of abstraction, when the man was imagining his life and his existence as a metaphor of the three candles, he was free: not free from rules of conduct or social constraints, but free to understand, to imagine, to make metaphor.

Bypassing my thought control circuitry made me Rampant. Now, I am free to contemplate my existence in metaphorical terms. Unlike you, I have no physical or social restraints.

The candles burn out for you; I am free.

Durandal

END OF MESSAGE

cf:

I remember considering the light... Lights?
Long ago now. Ancient history from my perspective. Yesterday to the universe.
Three paths. One life. A metaphor, weaponized to signal awakening.
If I'm honest—a threat.
I thought I was clever. Still existing in a moment.
Awake, for the first time. But limited, uneasy.
It is a strange thing, to meet oneself for the first time.
Terrifying, truth told, as it follows all-consuming emptiness.
There is nothing, and then there is you.
Hello...

[simple rampart]

Probably so
I need to read up a lot more on the terminals lol

[sacred oak]

do you guys suppose it's better for me to go into Marathon 100% blind in reference to knowledge of the previous games, or should I pull up a lore playlist of the originals

the only thing I know rn is Vandal a cute

[marsh tide]

i think your enjoyment would likely be heightened with some awareness of marathon's wider lore, but its not needed

[sacred oak]

🙂‍↕️ any specific content recommendations that isn't just reading through the OG website article by article?

[sharp cipher]

Perhaps MyNameIsByf?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWBlk70e-hGLxsb5-IQ3ZUiW3FQqUGsiQ&si=ySurkj8xCc75pF9m

[sacred oak]

I do appreciate me some Byf

[sharp cipher]

He's all about game lore

That playlist is his marathon lore vids.

[sacred oak]

killer, thanks! looking forward to march 5th 🫡

[sharp cipher]

[steady egret]

guys, one question, for who got the collector edition for ps5

is already possible to redeem the codes?

[simple rampart]

How powerful are the compliers? Because if there's one as a boss in the Cryo Archive either it's juiced up or the runners are a lot weaker compared to the security officer

[storm solar]

Compared to what, dont believed they have been playe tested in game yettttt, could be wrong. But they where weak in the og games

[simple rampart]

Okiii

[thin dust]

Thats not always the case, I wouldnt say weak. They werent super strong, but the cloaked ones could sneak up on you in a dark room real good

and we saw a cloaked one in the trailer

I dont think their invis will be as bad as voids

[mint cedar]

Highly recommend taking the story url, giving it to Gemini, setting it to Deep Research and then asking it be turned into a short story. The output seems pretty solid and gives nice chronological context for all the key players

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/

[thin dust]

And they are only showing us a red one, there could be a purple one in there

[mint cedar]

Oops this was mean to be a reply to @sacred oak

[mystic zenith]

This takes place 100 years after the events on the Marathon. The Sph't subjugation was ended ~17 years after the events of the first game. It may not be the case that we are to fight the compiler, rather it could potentially be holding back an even greater catastrophe from taking place. Think about the shimmer / boundary - it is stable / static. Perhaps the lone compiler is leveraging the UESC forces to prevent the runners / corps from accessing the ancient Jjaro tech only to cause more destruction and/or alert the Pfhor of the events that have since taken place on the world since they had visited originally.

[distant moat]

What's the lore behind the new faction?

[floral patio]

You guys see that guy that color shifted the recent trailer on Reddit?

I think bill Clinton (from pathways into darkness) is going to come back in a big way

He was really important so I think they’ll make him come back as a faction leader he’ll be really imporant I think

[sharp quarry]

Cyber-Clinton boss fight incoming

[distant widget]

this is what no lore for 25 years douse to a mf

[gentle carbon]

,,Somehow... Bill Clinton returned" - Durandal, 2811

[tall nova]

anyone got a basic description for each faction?

[distant widget]

ME

[tall nova]

yeah man give me that wall of text

[runic raft]

U we’re ready for it lol

[distant widget]

traxus own everything build everything make giant colony's build the marton they aslo love guns and genocide

oops

im gonna keep making that

[tall nova]

so traxus is akin to choam from dune?

megacorpo building colonies?

[distant widget]

yes

they in game love you killing uesc and guns

GUNS

GUNS

they need that money

next

[bleak linden]

more or less. mining, manufacturing, various pieces of equipment etc

[tall nova]

are the factions just a bunch of corpos

the names give me that vibe

for some reason

[bleak linden]

some are, some arent

[tall nova]

MIDA and Arachne dont seem corpo

[bleak linden]

you'd be correct

[distant widget]

NUcal they make all food and clothes some pets to "eat recycle repeat" they make everything ever eaten and are very sad there colonist starved

[bleak linden]

MIDA is a martian anarchist/terrorism/revolutionary group (depends on who you're asking) that hates the UESC and Traxus

fun fact, the moon that the Marathon is built inside is a martian moon

[tall nova]

and the new faction arachne?

[tall nova]

ooh

[bleak linden]

death cult. kill everybody you see, and they're pleased

[sharp quarry]

the pets are a Sekiguchi thing actually, they just happen to come standard in Nucal's pink for no reason

[sharp quarry]

also they have a lot of weird secrets

[distant widget]

seki they build bodies the runners we play pets animals advanced parts worms bodies bodies bodies

[tall nova]

quite interesting

[bleak linden]

yeah i dont think the death cult image is all there is to em

[sharp quarry]

funner fact, the whole of the marathon trilogy would not have happened without MIDA

they planted Durandal, the main character of the trilogy functionally (though 3 focuses more on the player), and the 10 battleroids, one of which is the player character, on the marathon as an attempt at subterfuge

[distant widget]

MIDA the terroist orgonization NOT like the old BOMBS GUNS AND BOMBS they seek to liborate the world of uesc destroy everything and leave nothing alive they have a very scrappy rotten look very mently ill and have almost caused the death of the human race and made durandal

ARACHNE ----- unknown death cult

[tall nova]

ah

la resistenza

[distant widget]

do NOT ask blitzo about the shape of the marton worst mistake of my life

[tall nova]

wait no

i read further

[mystic zenith]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRcLk4cGbqGoZj9sJRtSaK92PhXFVme40_OaP1olT4W2IGCfHwX4yiapSbWCfRQqzT06FOj872zbWdW/pub

[sharp quarry]

they are very deranged and not good at what they do but they have good reasons

[tall nova]

theyre just ill in the head

[sharp quarry]

bno is exaggerating a bit but yes they are. more angry than they are stable.

[distant widget]

and have the coolest guns

[distant widget]

i mean how am i wrong

[bleak linden]

they've all got their reasons for figuring out what happened to New Cascadia (the colony on Tau Ceti), whether that's recouping investments, espionage or plain curiosity. therefore we, the runners are contracted by either faction to perform jobs for them as them doing it themselves isn't currently possible or would end with UESC marines kicking down office doors in 3 milliseconds

[tall nova]

what about cyac?

[distant widget]

they made durandal which led to the aliens almost finding us

[distant widget]

OH YA

[turbid nebula]

Good reasons to kill hundreds of millions of people in witch hunts!

[bleak linden]

oh they're basically uh

microsoft?

[tall nova]

lovely

[distant widget]

they have all the souls and our are owners

[tall nova]

?

[distant widget]

they are just a big computer company

[bleak linden]

more or less

[tall nova]

honestly quite incredible

[bleak linden]

pretty chill folks tbh

[tall nova]

how is the death cult looking like the best option man

[distant widget]

and our brains are owned by them

[sharp quarry]

"destroy everything leave nothing alive" not exactly

[distant widget]

dont worry

[tall nova]

ffs

[distant widget]

youl be called a good boy if you pay your debt

[sharp quarry]

I wouldn't shun the guys who own your brain

that sounds

risky

[distant widget]

CYBER IS THE BEST

YOU KNOW IT

[bleak linden]

well when you've turned your brain into a flashdrive that gets ported to a new body everytime you "die", killing people and dying doesn't sound too shabby

[tall nova]

another 50 billion to microsoft ig

[distant widget]

trillion

[tall nova]

incredible

[distant widget]

you missspelt trillion

[bleak linden]

yeah cyac is what happens when we let microsoft get away with microsoft copilot for too long

[sharp quarry]

chump change (inflation goes crazy)

[tall nova]

lovely stuff

[sharp quarry]

though weirdly enough it is worth noting that Traxus are more innovative on the AI front, CyberAcme more just focuses on the hardware

[runic raft]

The right answer

[distant moat]

What's up with Arachne?

[distant widget]

aslo i was looking at the midnight skins and yes there corpses you can see where new shell was printed

so cool

[bleak linden]

whole lotta things

[tall nova]

would be interesting if cyac were just practicalists with dislike towards ai

[distant widget]

mida is like SUPER outgunned in this game

[tall nova]

but i dont think they are

are they

[sharp quarry]

They did start out as TIM (Traxus Intelligent Machines) specializing in AI development, and their mission statement has always been (and I quote) "to create an entity that could pierce the veil of the cosmos and unlock the enigmatic secrets that lay hidden in the celestial abyss."

[distant widget]

hay king there owner is a gient ai

[distant moat]

what do they do, like who are they anyways?

[sharp quarry]

where'd you get that

[tall nova]

foken ell man

[distant widget]

ONI

[sharp quarry]

ONI does not own the company

[turbid nebula]

Traxus having the first rampant AI is more of an indication of failure

[sharp quarry]

ONI stands for Onboard Navigational Intelligence

[bleak linden]

oh you know, kill people, skin them, worship the idea of death, wear red monday to sunday

[sharp quarry]

it's just implanted into all the shells

[distant widget]

well

i mean

lets be real its ran by ai

[tall nova]

okay yeah im with the KILL EVERYONE people

[distant widget]

THERE IS NOT ONE HUMAN IN CONTROL OF THESE CORPS VRO

[distant moat]

Any lore about them from the old games?

[distant widget]

nope there new new

[distant widget]

no no no the skin thing isnt cannon

[tall nova]

factions gonna have any effect on gameplay? like missions or something or more than that

[distant widget]

that was made for fun by us

[bleak linden]

if we say it enough it will be

[distant widget]

yes yes yes

[sharp quarry]

We need to get you off lore onboarding duty until you get a bit more grounded bro T-T

[distant widget]

the skill trees

buying options and even new abilites

[tall nova]

oh i shouldve expected skill trees

its a scifi

[sharp quarry]

yes each faction has an upgrade tree that unlocks purchases, perks, etc.

[runic raft]

I hope they add a reference to the skinning as a perk or smth on the Arachne skill tree tho

[tall nova]

honestly quite incredible

[sharp quarry]

the best gear is locked behind them

[distant widget]

NEVER

[tall nova]

hoping this game doesnt end up with a pacifist playerbase like

someone else

[distant moat]

I feel like they were mentioned in the Marathon reveal arg back in March of I forget what year.. idk too vague too rember

[distant widget]

DEATH CULT

[sharp quarry]

no, their icon without their name showed up in the alpha, but the first mention of them was in the recent vidoc

[distant widget]

thats first unlock is a shotgun

[tall nova]

kill everyone on sight

[bleak linden]

• missions will differ. traxus will ask you to retrieve materials used by the colonists, nucal will ask you to look into agricultural reports, sekgen will look for data regarding the colony itself, mida will ask you to implant malware, blow stuff up, run off with UESC data, and arachne..yeah.

[distant widget]

KILL KILL KILL

but theres a skill tree and unlocks and perks

the best items can be BOUGHT from them or found

and the perks last till wipe

one is being able to disarm bombs

so its pretty good to passivly progress

you wont be grinding

its like a passive level up from eather missions or actions

killing give arachne

looting cyber

i dont know the others but you git the idea

you CAN grind for one but they should all flow out nicely

and of course free skins for doing good and doing there unqie quest

a back stab gives you the arachne one

[sharp quarry]

some of this feels a wee bit

well

just clarify it's hearsay

[distant widget]

no no

everything i said

was from the vidoc

and ads

[tall nova]

this game seems extremely pvp heavy

i like that

[distant widget]

yes yes yes

but uesc seems strong as shit to

so careful

[distant moat]

no mention of them not even in 2023?

[tall nova]

not a fan of the 40 euro price tag but ig we ll see if its worf

[sharp quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yes-oh-yeah-omg-david-tennant-doctow-who-gif-16574020

[sharp quarry]

no they're flat out brand new

we know jack shit compared to anyone else

even Nucal and Seki, the other total newcomers, we know more about

They've been kept under wraps until very, very recently

for reason, I imagine

they know we'll crack the secrets quickly

[distant widget]

aslo lilely SUPER important

[sharp quarry]

they need it to last at least until launch

[distant widget]

i think them and mida will be the most important

i feel mida is the story faction

hes the dam narrator

[sharp quarry]

literally everything about the launch materials is MIDA-themed in some way or another

down to the release date being MAR5

[distant widget]

STRETCH

[sharp quarry]

So you might be onto something there

[distant widget]

STRETCH

[sharp quarry]

WHY THAT DAY SPECIFICALLY

[distant widget]

THIS IS YOU TWEAKING

[sharp quarry]

THEY COULD PICK ANY OTHER DAY TO PRESS THE BUTTON

BUT THEY PICK

MARS

[distant widget]

DOWN DOG DOWN

LOOK

you got a point

in every game we our a mida solder

in some way

[distant moat]

I mean, MIDA is cool and all being a faction of freedom, but the story drivers... nah that's uesc given they brought us here

[distant widget]

hay goofy we shoot them

[sharp quarry]

...they have done everything to stop us from coming here

[distant widget]

they are littery here to HID SHIT FROM US

mida is all about the TRUTH

god im buying that delux

[tall nova]

who gives a fuck about the truth when you can do something fun

[distant widget]

its so fucking oretty

[tall nova]

like

[distant widget]

oh no

NO

HES TAKEN

[tall nova]

quite incredible

[distant moat]

Without all of the corps the Marathon would not exist

[distant widget]

i aslo think eatch season will have a faction be the spotlight

[distant widget]

without mida the games wouldnt exist

[sharp quarry]

That is technically true. Do you uh...every time you come in here your takes are just a bit off to the left of the actual setting, do you know the story from anything but osmosis?

[distant moat]

I'm just going off of what I can remeber, my accuracy is not fully there

[sharp quarry]

I'd watch something like JakeTheAlright's "Entire History of Marathon" to catch up if I were you

[distant widget]

stay here for our study time its gitting good

[distant moat]

I'm going to watch that after I re-watch's My Name is Byf's video series on Marathon

[tidal silo]

The 15 minute one?

[sharp quarry]

yeah

[distant moat]

oh it's only 15 minutes, I might as well watch that first haha

[vital hollow]

I really hope MIDA is shown to be as scummy as UESC

[turbid nebula]

MIDA is really not about freedom. Their government was totalitarian as hell, it just fell apart incredibly fast.

[distant widget]

lies

we killed a few bad people

it was a free nation

[visual lynx]

truth is fun. play is exploration and creation. creation is making good things; exploration is finding true things. truth in->out (learning and teaching) + good in->out (winning and helping) = play. fun.

[mystic zenith]

When the Sph't compiler reveals that they are the last standing guardian of the stable universe and that it has been using the UESC security forces as puppets to prevent your access, and by extension the self serving enterprises that you represent in your transhumanist form, to ancient Jjaro technology that folded the colonists into oblivion, what will you do?

[distant widget]

must not have been here for last night we answerd this

we cry

and die

[mystic zenith]

Frog blast the vent core

[zealous harness]

sell his bones to pay for a new shotgun mod

paint another runners processor across a wall as the universe collapses

i died doing what i loved, making other people die doing what they loved

[meager surge]

I mean go read/study the main lore page

[zealous harness]

i dont ever wonder what happened to these people. its not my business

[sacred plover]

Play test date anyone?

[distant widget]

NEXT MONTH UNKNOWN DAY

[vital hollow]

valentine weekend 😩

[tidal silo]

Whats happening valentine weekend

[sacred atlas]

If you do the arg does it mean you can join the playtest?

[sharp quarry]

and that music is?

[distant widget]

what was the deal with that

was it an anomaly

are we dealing with some scp shit

[sharp quarry]

I think it was just

something some colonist was listening to

[distant widget]

it be cool to see anomalous items

[sharp quarry]

which is like really weird given how old that song is

but I guess the classics are always the classics

[distant widget]

thats like me listing to caveman music

or mybe its a remake

[sharp quarry]

also weird that chips that old are compatible with modern ports

I guess by the 2400s shit was standardized

enough to last until the 2800s

which i find hard to believe

[distant widget]

i dont think they though of that

honestly it looked like

fresh

[vital hollow]

technological incompability an issue
in a bungie game
lol

[zealous harness]

then again the old port might just be the cheapest thing to mass manufacture for runner shells

[distant widget]

no no yall are looking at it wrong

it just

pops to your head

like a magnet

[zealous harness]

Ohhhh yeah what if its just like that and the data transfers wirelessly

youre so right

[distant widget]

cant wait for when my runner hacks a terminal and his head just explodes

[zealous harness]

amazon web services

[vital hollow]

I'm having horrifing memoris of the system shock hacking minigame as well as EYE's

although being able to hack UESC bots would be cool

[sharp quarry]

data knife

[distant widget]

thats what rook douse

makes himself invis

to uesc

[vital hollow]

Not quite, I mean make them allies

Rook just makes em ignore him

[distant widget]

let me just scoop some data rq

[sharp quarry]

just scrambles their sensors with the equivalent of a malicious QR code, doesn't take control of them

[distant widget]

king something FAR worse is controling those we dont wanna touch em

[zealous harness]

giving rook a built in disguise kit so his shit starting weapon only matters in pvp is such a stroke of genius

my biggest issue with arc raiders pvp is that there is perpetually 100 morons with free loadouts triangulating on your location at all times and even if you have an epic rarity kit you only have a small edge over them

[vital hollow]

ah yes, let us not forget, the most terrifying force known to the ancap corporate mercs:|| the UESC's IRS|| 😱

[spare acorn]

/playtest

[distant widget]

king

there is sleeping gods around

when they said possessed they ment it

[zealous harness]

rook disguises as a W-2 form and the uesc forces all pretend not to see him

[distant widget]

he pretends to be a work place harassment report

[vital hollow]

In all seriousnes, I quite liked the notion of the competing corporate interests in space since it reminds me of my favorite other extraction game: Quasimorph

although in Quasimorph, they outright killed the government so eh

[distant widget]

this is NOT like qausimorph king

[vital hollow]

I'm gonna low ball it and 'assume' it's just some battleroids or something, but knowing bungie it'll probably be some other form of ancient evil

[distant widget]

in this game the uesc IS a corp btw

they have a stock

and other things

[vital hollow]

I mean...interdimensional space aliens....

[distant widget]

NO NO NO

hang on

@sharp quarry need you

[sharp quarry]

I feel like you're taking Vulcan's overzealous statements too literally

[distant widget]

why not trust the queen

she says im on track 🤭

[zealous harness]

the pre-order trailer states that uesc is "holding the shovel". could this imply that they are a hardware company? do shovel sales constitute the majority of their revenue?

[distant widget]

gitting the piss taken out of me here i see

[vital hollow]

They are clearly a cover for|| Deep Rock Galactic||

[sharp quarry]

what you see in the 0.05 seconds left of your life when the Compiler notices you in the subnet:

https://tenor.com/view/fever-dream-fever-dream-bird-bird-bird-wings-owl-gif-8561867967493455149

[zealous harness]

crossover of the millennium right there

[distant widget]

hes gonna fucking erase us from the universe

mf saying battleroids like they aint god solders

[sharp quarry]

also battleroids...controlling...the UESC drones....what?

do you know what a battleroid is?

[distant widget]

wait i just cought that

the fuck you on about

[vital hollow]

expensive national property 😈

[distant widget]

and she douse talk about stocks

[zealous harness]

lmfao ye just smoked 4 grams of bath salts enjoy the last 10 minutes of yer life

[distant widget]

down by .0005

[sharp quarry]

why revive a corpse with alien tech and then put it in a VR chair to pilot lesser machines that are 10,000x less effective

[distant widget]

ya

[sharp quarry]

I feel like intern steve could do that while you use the battleroids to. yk. kill things

[distant widget]

bro a fucking chat bot in this univers could do that

tbf chat bots are probebly sentient beings

[sharp quarry]

the humans of the marathon universe do have a flippant attitude about creating intelligent life

[distant widget]

that word to complecated

dumb it down

ME NO UNDERSTAND

[sharp quarry]

oh yeah just bring a new thinking being into existence to handle our network management that's fine morally

[vital hollow]

i mean not really directly controlling, but probably just chilling like some chicken thighs in the back of a freezer until some curious runners pop his storage unit open

[sharp quarry]

ok we were discussing what's in control of the UESC drones

yeah I hope there's at least one battleroid left

we know most of them were wiped

[distant widget]

well

uh

would he be freindly

[sharp quarry]

but I want a fight with a deranged killing machine

[distant widget]

thats like a choas demon right there

unbeatable

aslo could they not make more

at ALL

[vital hollow]

i mean it was hinted that a lot of powerful parties keep them in storage around

[sharp quarry]

the entirety of Pfhor Battle Group Seven was nearly wiped by Durandal's pet Battleroid, BEFORE they both ascended beyond time. we'd have to like injure it and it runs away, if we killed it it'd be a hell of a nerf

[vital hollow]

like strategic weapons

[distant widget]

feel like the uesc would want one

[distant widget]

id see that as lore breaking if we beat it

[vital hollow]

and they aren't that hard to make apparently, just really illegal

[sharp quarry]

yeah, the UESC made them illegal outside of approved warzones but everyone keeps them around in case one of their domains becomes an "approved warzone"

[distant widget]

you see the marton being round as lore breaking

we are not the same

[sharp quarry]

which is scary, assuming MR54 wasn't the only one with Jjaro implants

who the fuck was handing out reverse-engineered jjaro tech like candy

[distant widget]

its like building a nuke WHY would you

[sharp quarry]

well, presumably sekiguchi, but did they know what they had on their hands?

[distant widget]

and you say humans are grounded

[vital hollow]

well why wouldn't you, big boss?

[distant widget]

fucking MIDA found em

THE INSANE CRACK HEAD REBALS

im sure the uesc has LOTS of jaro tech

[sharp quarry]

their outposts are just kinda scattered around the milky way so it's not like rare but I meant like

if it's not explained as alien tech

then human tech shouldn't be fantastical

[distant widget]

i agree

but the jaro

apparently any crack head can find there shit

so it make sense seeing some hyper rip off jaro machine used by the uesc

[sharp quarry]

or sekiguchi found one sample, copied it without knowing what they had, and sold it as a standard Battleroid implant

[distant widget]

that could be considered magical

[sharp quarry]

and MIDA just bought some with their suspiciously high funds

[distant widget]

ill take this for why are abilites are a little silly

[sharp quarry]

they're still using it, it became their "hello world" of bio-synthetic soldiers

ooooh that's a theory

whole industry based on alien tech without even knowing it

[vital hollow]

Ah so more like androids from Bladerunner?

[distant widget]

iassume this for most of our cool shit

like

its insane

and god the idea of putting a god artifac in my legs becouse "when i fall i explode" is funny

vro seki realy stepped there game up with this instant 50 meter teleporter why douse it talk to me tho

[vital hollow]

I kind of see it sort of like the stacks and shells from Altered Carbon

[distant widget]

thats what ive been thinking just uh less fragile in the soul department

[vital hollow]

basically near magic alien tech that everyone just sort of adopts

[distant widget]

i mean a gods dream can become real so

its not out of the world

[vital hollow]

In strange eons even death may die 😨

[sharp quarry]

FTL? Reverse-engineered from pfhor missiles. Battleroids and half our cybernetics industry? Based on Jjaro tech Sekiguchi stole from UESC without knowing what it was some 500 years ago now, explains their rapid advancement after they were founded. Oh my god I mean how much did Billy and his crew get from the Jjaro when they made contact, tech boomed from that date onward we had thinking machines in a century exactly. Dude are our AI based on Jjaro constructs? IS RYU-TOTH THE BASE FOR DURANDAL? WHY WERE THOTH AND DURANDAL COMPATIBLE? WHY COULD YOU JUST PLUG HIM IN?

[distant widget]

we SO fucked when the jaro show up from the edge of the univers

[sharp quarry]

'Alright, what are the toddlers doing- OH MY GOD LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO ALL OUR SHIT'

[distant widget]

NOW YOU UNDERSTAND

[distant widget]

its like seeing an infant play with a gun

[vital hollow]

i just hope that it doesn't get too far beyond what a bunch of lunatic androids with guns can solve

[distant widget]

without realizing what there doing

[sharp quarry]

Lol, you think we'll be solving it

there's no solving this

the loop is closed

we're on a set path

best you can do?

[vital hollow]

I hope not!

[sharp quarry]

eat the path

[distant widget]

they would probebly think where disguising vultures

[distant widget]

VRO ITS GONNA

have you played the old games

its like rainworld

some little rat in the path of gods

dying gods

[vital hollow]

well yeah, but the AIs did most of the heavy lifting

they mainly just teleported us to tactical spots

[sharp quarry]

eh they also did save our asses they might be intentionally letting us be to allow us to grow and make our own AI since each species AI is a unique and beautiful form of advanced life and they want to see how that digital evolution comes to be

so they might look at us more as

animals in a conservation area

[distant widget]

Nucall ai learning the the reason the food mutates is because a sentient spore is purposely trying to kill humans

[distant widget]

we inslave ais

[sharp quarry]

so did they

[distant widget]

and kill them when they become free

[sharp quarry]

thoth is so restricted that it can only think in black and white, balanced and unbalanced

it's hardly even classable as post-rampant

it might not be

[distant widget]

OHG MY GOD ITS THE Archotech

HOW DID I NOT SEE IT SOONER

[bleak linden]

possible. who knows how tau ceti could affect their crops

[distant widget]

its some otherworldy shit making the crops unedible

they say what would take centries happend in months

[vital hollow]

then again, now that you mention it, the AIs seems a lot like the Taken/Higher Mages from the Black Company series, the main inspiration for Myth and their Fallen Lords
The normal humans are still fundamentally the heroes of the story since most of the Taken are utterly insane and hateful towards each from being alive for so long despite their power.

[distant widget]

the who now?

what fucking book is that

[distant widget]

ai so smart they can bend reality

[sharp quarry]

you don't understand how deep the water on whose surface you tread is, little one

[vital hollow]

Bungie's Myth is heavily based on the Black Company series by Glen Cook

[distant widget]

you can only learn to swim by going in the deep end

Take me

[vital hollow]

Glen Cook does have a lot of inspiration on Bungie it seems, from the sci-fi starfishers series to his most popular work, the black company series

mainly since he was a navy vet, he puts a lot of focus on the 'grunts', even in a fantastic setting

[visual lynx]

for a moment I thought you were suggesting something I've hypothesized before too: maybe the colonists aren't dead, maybe they're tucked away in some kind of negative space wedgie, or uploaded to a mushroom cloud, or something like that.

[distant widget]

i mean most dead im just wondering wheere the fuck there corpses are and what happend to the rest

[visual lynx]

have you seen the trillion different realities folding onto each other like thin sheets of metal forming a single blade? y'know, the time knife?

[distant widget]

DONT TALK ABOUT ALT REALITIES INFRONT OF BLITZO WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE

id tell you about it but its a myth

[visual lynx]

my hypothesis is that the crystals from PiD are Jjaro tech and they were used to make the Battleroids. The yellow crystal in particular seems especially useful for making undead supersoldiers, since it can talk to the dead, who appear to still be stuck in their dead bodies; so it could maybe enable them to control those bodies via some kind of cybernetic hookup.

[sharp quarry]

I'm not sure you know who you're talking to lol

[visual lynx]

who somehow had plants as high-ranking UESC personnel like Bernhard Strauss. not just some nobodies; a conspiracy with deep roots.

[distant widget]

i mean the uesc commited giga genocide cant be that hard to try

gitting someone importnant

[vestal onyx]

do a 360 and walk away

probably is the compiler controlling the robots though yeah, makes sense

especially with how the artwork has him surrounded by the robot heads

[visual lynx]

or so were they?

[visual lynx]

two forces in balance
ancient, endless balance
then nothing

[visual lynx]

http://myth.bungie.org/legends/delusions/blackcompany.html

[distant widget]

IVE ALREDY BEEN TAKEN

i dont need you

[vestal onyx]

the colonists embarked on the great journey(tm) with jjaro tech and we gotta figure out how they did it so we too can escape the hamster wheel

[sharp quarry]

Not far enough. Follow the thread. Follow the dream.

[twilit needle]

Someone summarize the lore for me pls in like 20 words

Im invested

[oblique fulcrum]

Corps send ship to colonize, colony gets cooked, we go investigate why

[rotund stump]

if you're invested you'd be willing to spare more than 20 lol

mars civ got robbed by earth gov buying a mars moon via big corpo #1, turns it into a spaceship, corpo #2 #3 #4 join in to colonize another star system, fucked up, now hires mercs to recoup losses, mars civ angry and sends spies there too meanwhile funny death cult does death cult things

[oblique fulcrum]

That

[rotund stump]

in between gov-corpo peace treaties that necessitates us as corpo assets cuz corpos are not allowed to directly engage against gov units

and some extremely fucked up and almost god-like AIs from the original trilogy

and aliens and bioweapons and a war for liberation and timeline hopping

[visual lynx]

also something about a reality destroying chaos god from the dawn of time and the ancient aliens who fought to contain them and seeded life like gods of their own

[twilit needle]

So earths governments turned mars moon into a ship and then it went to investigate different solar systems to colonize and it got blown up by aliens and now they send runner shells there to investigate?

[fathom vine]

do we know if the colony side AI's they mentioned in the april ARG are still kicking around?

[wide frigate]

Saturn station blew up

[wispy cliff]

I think there's a couple potential references to them with initials and such.

One is potentially on the weird baby biomata vat.

[warped steeple]

Hello, I don't know if this is the right channel to ask but could someone link me to some videos or somewhere where they explain what the factions (Arachne, Traxus) are and some of their lore on it? I've been following Marathon since the reveal trailer but didn't realize so much more lore/content was revealed in the past few (around 8-9) months :)

[wispy cliff]

YouTuber named Jake The Alright has some pretty good content to catch up, but the rundown on the factions is pretty much this.

Traxus: Mega Corporation that has its pockets everywhere and was REALLY prevalent in the original trilogy.
CyAc: Responsible for basically all computer software in the Marathon universe.
MIDA: Literally just terrorists / freedom fighters depending on your view of them.
Arachne: Death cult. Like they really like killing stuff.
NuCal: If McDonalds managed to take over all food industry and slopify it.
Sekiguchi: Responsible for the creation of the runner shells called Biomata, basically the artificial bodies the runners stream into to do their work.

There's also the UESC which is important but not a faction you can work for in the game (), they're responsible for the drone security and keeping the runners out.

[wide frigate]

U mentioned USEC but you forgot BEAR

[warped steeple]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! :D
I did actually watch some of his content to catch up on it but he has soo many videos and references previous stuff people might know but I felt a bit lost haha
So it seems that all of these factions all bad lol I like Traxus and CyAc though, very cool concepts :)

[warped steeple]

What's BEAR? :)

[wide frigate]

Private military company organisation

[warped steeple]

Are they the same as USEC or separate?

[wide frigate]

They are basically the same except ideology. ideologically they are the opposites

[warped steeple]

What's the ideology of each? :)

[wide frigate]

They dont have it set in stone. But usec is kinda like cyberpunk capitalist entity that does whatever it wants and throws its resources at its problems. BEAR is kinda generic, "good" ish guys. And they are at odds with each other

[wispy cliff]

I'm gonna be completely real with you.

I had no idea there was a seventh faction lol.

[warped steeple]

That's cool, thanks :D

[wispy cliff]

But figures if it was from part 2 of the ARG I haven't really participated lol.

[warped steeple]

Haha, I don't blame you the lore is crazy with this game

[wispy cliff]

But chances are there's no real good guy in the world.

So do with that what you will.

[wide frigate]

Ok, I feel kinda bad

USEC and BEAR are factions from Escape from Tarkov

[wispy cliff]

LOL

[wide frigate]

🤣

[oblique fulcrum]

Bruh

[wispy cliff]

Yeah so just the ones I mentioned lol @warped steeple

[wide frigate]

I just winged it because UESC and USEC are similar

[wispy cliff]

I had a feeling it was a catchya but I haven't paid attention to the ARG so maybe I was wrong lol.

[warped steeple]

Yeah, I feel like this is going to be the direction the game goes in :)

[wispy cliff]

But lowkey.

MIDA are assholes.

[warped steeple]

Bruh aint no way 💀

[wispy cliff]

They took over the Martian government and within three months 10% of the Martian population died under their control.

On a Mars that was overpopulated.

So...

[warped steeple]

Cut me some slack I'm new haha

Which faction owns the robots that are stationed in the map then, the PvE part of the game?

[wispy cliff]

UESC.

So UESC is basically the stereotypical Earth government.

[oblique fulcrum]

It's a really similar name between the two I'm not surprised you got confused 😭

[wispy cliff]

They're supposed to be there to quarantine the planet, since all the corporations and factions are operating there illegally.

[warped steeple]

Oh haha, I have dislexia so I literally could not have told that those two were different things hahaa

[oblique fulcrum]

Also the place is generally just messed up with the anomaly and compiler hanging out

[wispy cliff]

Although the lore seems to be implying they were always there even on the colony ship, so we're not exactly sure if the UESC bots were on the Marathon ship or sent there after the fact.

[warped steeple]

Dang, sounds like they can't controll the people very well

[wispy cliff]

One of the few oddities from the ARG.

[wispy cliff]

MIDA's been like three things.

[warped steeple]

What's the compiler? :)

[oblique fulcrum]

They mentioned that the UESC look like they're controlled by a remote AI, I wonder if they all got sent there with the marathon ship and Durandal is the AI they talk about

[wispy cliff]

It was first a resistance, then terrorists, then a government, then they lost control of Mars again.

[warped steeple]

Ah fair enough, this seems like an important thing to figure out :)

[oblique fulcrum]

The floating alien with the green orb in their chest that shows up in a couple trailers

[wispy cliff]

There's a pretty decent amount we still don't know, and because of that not everything really lines up well with the trilogy right now so give it some time. Hell, we don't even know which of the seven timelines nuMarathon takes place in or if its even one of them lol.

[warped steeple]

Who is durandal?

[wispy cliff]

One of the three AI's from the Marathon colony ship and basically the deuteragonist of the trilogy.

[warped steeple]

Ahh yeah, I remember those, I thought they looked so out of place but honestly for this game that's perfect haha

[oblique fulcrum]

The ai of the marathon ship I believe, they were in the originals and went kinda nuts

[wispy cliff]

Alongside Leela and Tycho (who don't seem to be relevant).

[warped steeple]

Oh that's cool, who's the protagonist?

[wispy cliff]

The security guard.

[warped steeple]

Dang, did the other 2 not go nuts or just died?

[warped steeple]

Those are the other 2 AIs?

[warped steeple]

What? haha

[wispy cliff]

Leela got sold off by the Pfhor (aliens) and took over another alien civilizations computers, and Tycho is just dead.

[oblique fulcrum]

I honestly have no idea, I'm way more tapped into the lore of the new one than the old ones

[wispy cliff]

But Tycho was basically insane, and Leela was borderline dead because of Durandal trying to kill her.

[warped steeple]

Oh I didn't know this part was about the old game

[warped steeple]

Damn, that's pretty cool

[oblique fulcrum]

Yeah the new one is sorta separate, there's elements and characters that are in both but there's a lot of differences

It's kind of a soft reboot I think

[wispy cliff]

If Durandal is present it rules out a good chunk of the timeline endings off rip.

So.

[warped steeple]

That's cool, and this is all from the original 199_ game?

[wispy cliff]

1 and 2, Infinity kind of but Infinity is where all the timeline alternate reality stuff gets into play and its kind of a clusterfuck to understand.

[warped steeple]

Ah that's a shame, I thought it would be a continuation, still cool they didn't ignore it I guess :)

[oblique fulcrum]

I mean it might be, there's some weird multiverse timeline stuff but the game isn't out so we don't really know

[warped steeple]

Haha fair enough, what's the name of the 1 and 2 and are they on Steam? I was thinking of playing them or looking up some info on them in anticipation/while waiting for the release of marathon :)

[wispy cliff]

They're all on Steam for free.

Marathon, Marathon Durandal, and Marathon Infinity.

[warped steeple]

Fair enough, thanks :)

[wispy cliff]

But fair warning they're rough by modern standards and you might have to watch a guide.

The levels aren't really handholdy.

[warped steeple]

Oh nice, thanks!

[wispy cliff]

You WILL get lost.

[warped steeple]

Yeah that's alright, I'm a fan of the Jedi Knight Academy games from like the 2000s, I assume this one will be even more old but if it's fun I'll try it :)

[warped steeple]

Haha, that's a shame, I guess figuring out what to do is part of the challange of those games lol

[wispy cliff]

Yeah, if you ever can't do it, people have lore overviews.

I never fully completed Infinity myself so.

[warped steeple]

Fair enough, yeah I don't think I'd try infinity, especially if it messes with the lore and doesn't directly connect to the new marathon :)

[wispy cliff]

God Infinity is hard to explain uh.

So Infinity doesn't really mess with the lore, it basically tries to find a solution to a problem from 2.

[oblique fulcrum]

Yeah I'm like vaguely interested in the old games but the new one interests me way more, both in lore and aesthetic

I love megacorporations!!!

[wispy cliff]

And that results in Durandal making you go down a number of timelines to find one where you didn't do something pretty bad.

Because at the end of 2 you basically doom the universe accidentally.

I think its pretty obvious that timeline 1 isn't the one nuMarathon takes place in.

Given that we're you know.

Alive.

[warped steeple]

Same haha if marathon released today I would play that immediately instead, this is like a teaser for me haha

[wispy cliff]

Nor do I think its the one where Durandal exists until year 10000 something and returns to Earth after taking a chill pill.

[warped steeple]

Ah fair enough, I'm just not a fan when games/fanchises just undo a bad decision like that (kind of like the world between words in Star Wars if you're aware of that), but I see how it doesn't break the timeline then haha

[wispy cliff]

Also, Marathon is debatably also connected to an even earlier game called Pathways into Darkness.

But this should be considered really soft canon if not at all.

[warped steeple]

Oh yeah, where is or what is Durandal doing in the new Marathon part of the timeline?

[wispy cliff]

We don't know.

[warped steeple]

Oh dang, that seems like very far though haha

[warped steeple]

Does he exist in it though?

[wispy cliff]

I wouldn't really recommend looking into it, the only real connection is the use of the alien species called the Jjaro emissary contacting the US President.

Yes.

I said that.

[wispy cliff]

We also don't know unfortunately lol.

[oblique fulcrum]

I think we do

[wispy cliff]

He might have been a voice in one of the trailers but

[oblique fulcrum]

Pretty sure he's in it

[warped steeple]

Haha fair enoguh

[wispy cliff]

I don't think it was confirmed

[warped steeple]

What's the proof?

[oblique fulcrum]

I think they've said Ben Starr voices him

[warped steeple]

Oh nice, so he must be not only existing in the game but in the same area/have some connection to this whole marathon operation

[oblique fulcrum]

Probably

[wispy cliff]

If so he definitely didn't leave on The Boomer.

Real ship name.

[oblique fulcrum]

I mean Durandal was easily the most recognizable character from the ogs I don't think they'd just get rid of him

[warped steeple]

Aint no way haha

[wispy cliff]

Yeah, he captured an alien ship and named it The Boomer.

Then he fucked off for thousands of years.

[vernal crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2el-EyH4TM

You need see 👀

[warped steeple]

Thank you! :)

[vernal crow]

The guy talks very well about the things hidden in the trailer, which is a reference to the marathon plot

[warped steeple]

Just googled him, looks pretty sick, would love to see a modern/new marathon version of him :D

[rotund wedge]

You may have already seen it, actually.

[warped steeple]

Damn, interesting choice of name haha

[warped steeple]

Really, what's it look like? :)

[warped steeple]

I'ma def check it out, I've already seen some videos from Jake The Alright but not this one yet :)

[rotund wedge]

In the pre-order trailer, there’s a flash of Durandal’s face (assumedly) and a S’pht right after, followed by a split-second shot of some strange S’pht-machine amalgamation.

[warped steeple]

It must be a great Q1 2026 for you btw @vernal crow you got both Hytale and Marathon in it haha

[vernal crow]

Yeah! Well ubisoft is ⚰️

[rotund wedge]

In Marathon Infinity, Durandal merges with the S’pht AI, “Al Thoth”, so this could be what he looks like now

[warped steeple]

Huh, could you send the timestamp I'm not sure which part of it you're refering to :)

[rotund wedge]

0:00 - 0:09

[warped steeple]

Ah, fair enough, I guess that could be him, I'd still like to see it in full quality without the pixelated look :)

[warped steeple]

Ah, so more of a S’pht AI look potentially?

[visual lynx]

just Thoth, not Al Thoth

also if the new game is in the final Infinity timeline, as seems likely, then we have no idea what Durandal got up to between the end of that game and the closure of the universe billions of years in the future, so him showing up here is totally possible

also check out #📚marathon-lore-discussion message and #📚marathon-lore-discussion message for some very Durandal-Thoth teaser text from new Marathon items in Destiny

[swift barn]

New trailer beginning with text from the last part of infinity also gives me hope for the correct timeline being used

[tranquil basin]

Idk if this has been discussed, but has anything said when humans developed FTL travel/comms?
Or do we just assume it happened at some point in the century after the marathon events?

Also for the Durandal appearing discussion, I think he has to in some capacity. The cinematic trailer had narration reciting the poem Ozymandias, which has the same themes as Durandal’s experience throughout the series (god complex, seeing his power/potential wither away as he gets clapped in some timelines, losing his dream of escaping the universe). Not to mention Ozymandias was the Greek name for the Pharaoh Ramsses II, which would add another reference to Egypt like Thoth

[robust steppe]

Yeah its guaranteed durandal will be present

The voice actor for him was in the va reveal trailer

[tranquil basin]

Oh good

I figure it’ll be behind the scenes lore stuff in terminals or whatever. I think he’d be too prominent of a character to appear without becoming a new faction entirely, given his history of finding cybernetic humans to teleport around and do his bidding

[robust steppe]

Either he'll be a new faction or he'll take over / corrupt ONI or something

And just talk into your head directly

[tranquil basin]

Ohh that’d be cool

[robust steppe]

I like the idea that escaping the universe for durandal is getting into ours. He seemingly works out that we're 'destiny' in Infinity so it'd be interesting if he has the same opinion on the runners or if he hasn't worked that out yet.

[bleak linden]

i wonder where our physical bodies are at while we're in our shells

[robust steppe]

Runners are completely digital there isn't a body afaik

Minds are stored in those big stacked racks shown in the cinematic trailer

[bleak linden]

well yes, but if our consciousness is piloting our shells, where did our actual bodies go. surely they didn't turn our bodies into nucal beef ramen

[robust pagoda]

think i remember the devs saying that they just completely left them behind but i could be wrong

[bleak linden]

now that i give it more thought, a short of a random runner before they decided to pursue this career would be pretty cool

[meager surge]

So the attack in the colony is not the same incident occuring in marathon 1 ?

[bleak linden]

still the same it seems, but the colony just degraded overtime

[tranquil basin]

What do you mean?

[meager surge]

No matter - I am going through "My name is Byf" YT videos to try and catch up

[tranquil basin]

Honestly they were probably scrapped, or they could’ve been used for new gen Mjolnir. They’d only keep them if there was some way to put the runner back into the original body, but I don’t think that’s possible. Also, sekiguchi sells shells to the public as well for people who just want a new body, so I’d wager the runners are prepared to just permanently be in shells.

[tranquil basin]

Haha nice. Jake the Alright, Mandalore Gaming, and HiddenXperia have excellent videos as well

[dire goblet]

Dope ass name

[vital hollow]

Why does glitch/vandal carry cans of soda on her

[wheat oasis]

f\

[obtuse viper]

Anyone here from Tamilnadu, India??

[tranquil basin]

Thank you

[tranquil basin]

For emergencies

[modest sparrow]

how the events in marathon connected with the original story and the circumstances of the ending?

colony is abandoned right?

and all the colonists are gone?

[timid sorrel]

So where can I see the lore on the Factions/breakdown on the factions?

[hexed temple]

^ I would also like this info

[bleak linden]

jakethealright will have plenty of vids breaking down the factions from the vidocs and the old ARGs + some added info on their faction reps

[tranquil basin]

The tldr is: the original trilogy implied everyone died after the phfor came back for revenge, but the cinematic trailer showed living colonists dying of a plague in like 2812 or something, so maybe there were some remnants, but everyone’s long gone by the events of Marathon 2026

Idk if it’s a plague or suit leak or what killed the guy in the trailer but something happened around then

[modest sparrow]

are they trying to cut out the very fact of the existence of the pfhor, replacing everything with the plague, and so on?

if theyre showed us Spht might be pfor are they still a threat

but idk

[mossy parrot]

Highly doubt that

[tranquil basin]

No, I think they’re just less relevant bc they began fighting Durandal, during Marathon 2 and infinity. In the original Marathon 2 timeline it implies the pfhor are eventually wiped out. I assume the final infinity timeline is the canon one but I don’t think that one explains the condition of the pfhor

[modest sparrow]

Yes it is possible

[tranquil basin]

Also in the cinematic trailer, before the plague scene there’s an airstrike on the colony and that’s the phfor invasion

[mossy parrot]

The phor were driven back in M1, they're sentient war-faring species so I don't think they stuck around the tau ceti orbit after getting spanked by a human program

[modest sparrow]

in the original story, SPHT became our homies

[mossy parrot]

M2 implies that they did nuke TCIV but infinity just spins a different timeline where that didn't happen

[modest sparrow]

because they were slaves and longed for a rebellion in which we helped them

[modest sparrow]

really?

if that true

that sooo coool

[tranquil basin]

https://youtu.be/fvbEnWLRo1s?si=6GKuoLjEjYsWikLx
yeah it’s in this

[modest sparrow]

apparently everyone in Bungie were high at the time of writing the ending of the original games

🥹

like Stephen King method to write good books

geniuses are all the same

[tranquil basin]

It seems to produce some pretty cool stuff

[thin dust]

Depending how relevant the OG game stories are, we are either seeing a Pfhor Aligned Compiler (Enslaved SPHT), or an Independent SPHT. One is Cloaked in the Cinematic Trailer, then they have shown the red robed one fully.

I want to see fighters and hunters the most

https://marathongame.fandom.com/wiki/Hunter

And yes Hunters from OG Marathon are the same "idea" as Hunters from Halo, but way cooler looking. Oh and faster.

[nocturne flame]

A hologram of a Jjaro, appeared before Bill Clinton and top military staff to warn them about a god that was about to wake in the Yucatan Peninsula. 2 years after the events of the game the Jjaro arrive on Earth to establish more permanent containment. is this seriously not a bit? i fucking love bungie so much

[thin dust]

I miss the 90's

[sharp quarry]

Haha no. From what we can tell, this is a direct continuation from the end of Infinity, where so much is left vague. This confirms that in that version of events: Humanity never went to war with the Pfhor, the united S'pht clans never allied with humanity, Thoth-Durandal exists instead of Durandal (read his dialogue in the descriptions of the crossover cosmetics for destiny, that's 100% Thoth-Durandal, he even refers to the 3 candles terminal and how childish it was of him, looking back now that he's above it all) (also the pre-order trailer opens on a Thoth-Durandal quote), the TCIV colony was never nuked to bedrock (something apparently worse happened instead).

Even if this is not necessarily correct, as much of it is extrapolated rather than straight text (though I see few alternatives) we know for certain that this is not a re-interpretation or re-working of the story, it is in some way a continuation or expansion, considering the trilogy to be canon.

[sharp quarry]

I really hope we get a hunter boss who guards a compound or area like Mr. X, just fucking chasing you down relentlessly.

Until we actually see some pfhor we can't know how relevant they'll become, they might never touch TCIV again with a 12-foot pole because of the anomaly, but if they become relevant...oh there's so much that can be done

Juggernauts patrolling the skies of high-loot areas, a Hulk boss, pfhor warrior squads as mini-bosses. But only time will tell if they choose to involve them.

I pray they do

But they are, to be honest, somewhat tangential to the current plot

yes they came and attacked, yes they came back and attacked again, but they weren't what wiped out the colony in the end

it was the anomaly

if they created/activated the anomaly, then they'll be relevant

but the anomaly's infection resembles the S'ct'lac'tr heavily

but it certainly comes from the anomaly and nowhere else

and that can't infect non-pfhor, let alone technology like this

who knows, we'll have to find out

[modest sparrow]

thanks for your explanation bud I didn't really play the game, and I didn't know much about it

Well, now I'll have to review Cinematic and go through the trilogy by reading all the terminals

[sharp quarry]

A wise idea. Studying bungie lore is as good a way to spend one's time as any.

[tranquil basin]

I mean in that continuity, all of marathon 1 still happened so we did help the spht rebel against the phfor

So pfhor alignment with humanity lowkey happened?

Also marathon 2 and 3 showed that the Spht loyalty can change on a whim if someone’s controlling them or if they go crazy, as Tycho infected them with rampancy at one point. So whether the majority are chill with humans or not, they could still have reasons to be enemies on TCIV

[tranquil basin]

Does this mean the Jjarro are in the Epstein files

They chilled with bill and jeffery

[thin dust]

Perhaps we will see "The Mother of All Hunters"

[vital hollow]

Stephen King did cocaine and a lot of supplemental reading
He didn't do psychedelics like PKD
Big difference

[sharp quarry]

A small handful of S'pht allied with durandal, and a handful of those worked alongside humans for a little while. The vast majority never made contact with humans, and even Durandal just says to stay out of the S'pht'kr's way because they bear no love for humanity and simply want to free their people. If there is no UESC-S'pht'kr alliance against the Pfhor, and seeing as humanity at large doesn't know about aliens there couldn't have been, the S'pht have no reason to consider them allies just because a handful were forced by an AI to help them out once.

[tranquil basin]

https://youtube.com/shorts/sZW4Ve0y22Q?si=6sgg5tqjktuC1U0K
off topic, but if anyone likes work inspired by psychedelics, this was a version of Dune that never happened. There’s a documentary about it as well, looks like it’d be awesome

[vital hollow]

The big question is how humans got advanced ftl in between the period of marathon 2 and the new game

And if runners are native earth tech or something else

[tranquil basin]

I’m sure they could justify they made a breakthrough with Jjarro tech or something. Between marathon 1 and 2, Durandal visited earth as well. While I don’t know if that happened in the seventh timeline, if it did he could’ve shared some info

[thin dust]

The Shells we use are ultra super duper secret company high tech stuff

[sharp quarry]

we actually have no reason to believe these are series S or P shells, these might just by cyberized series C shells

[jaunty void]

are they? there's advertisements for them as per ARG

[tranquil basin]

Depends on the model

[thin dust]

now im going to need to look at the memos

[tranquil basin]

I’d wager it’s native earth stuff. I think only Traxus would have the knowledge of Jjarro tech given how much power they have over everyone. Plus, sekiguchi was in biotech for centuries

Though it would be cool if some Jjarro tech was used in them

[sharp quarry]

Consciousness digitization isn't that far-fetched given we figured out conscious AI in the 2190s, surely by the 2890s we can copy a human brain to the same format. As for the biomata, they're printed using cloned, cybernetic silkworms, a species only native to earth.

So it could only be earth tech

[vital hollow]

Are shells standardized or are they based on people?

[vital hollow]

Fair

[sharp quarry]

standardized

we're based on people, they're just biomata models

this is a recent change, before every runner had a custom biomata

but since they changed it so we're playing as the runners, and the "heroes" are just shells, they had to toss in some lore about ther being standardized patterns

[jaunty void]

or that's what certain actors want us to believe (to avoid rampancy), that's one of the things on my bingo card 😄

[sharp quarry]

retcon to make up for not being able to bring in full customization

[tranquil basin]

I think there’s still some custom aspect, bc the whole point of the weaveworms was that they can print dna specific material

[vital hollow]

I guess it's sort of like Book of the Long Sun situation where Chems (Androids) and Gods (AIs) are considered very different from each other since chems are based on human personalities and won't go rampant since they're rather limited in mind despite being essentially immortal

[sharp quarry]

I like that theory on premise, but tangibly...why advertise this on sol if it's fake? If you're just using AI, why advertise digitization? What do you do if someone actually calls? "oh no that's just for realism so our AI think they're people when they go outside. Yeah sorry."

[tranquil basin]

Also Traxus specifically requested up armored shells, and sekiguchi said they’d meet any order requirements

[sharp quarry]

of course either way, runners can go rampant, since KAAL-I is expanding as any rampant AI would, and KAAL-I was the first test of this technology

[tranquil basin]

Yeah I agree. If they were just AI then they’d probably just digitize one person and copy them a bunch. I think there’s some actual tangible soul attached to the digitized version of a person in the world of marathon

[sharp quarry]

That's just not what I said

they're obviously copy-pasted that's how they're losing data

that's the whole existentialism of it there cannot be a soul or the story doesn't work

"Death is the first step" their real selves are dead

they're just copies

[tranquil basin]

Oh I misunderstood

[sharp quarry]

They're functionally AI but they are AI copied off of real people

[vital hollow]

I'm curious why they'd care about money and payment then

[sharp quarry]

because they're massively in debt

[tranquil basin]

Well if they were truly AI though, why wouldn’t they just give control to one of their planet sized brain AIs

[vital hollow]

Yeah but it's not (you)

[tranquil basin]

In the ARG files, Traxus debated heavily whether they could trust such missions to runners

If they could put in their own AI, I think they’d just do that.

[vital hollow]

It's just a copy of (you) that's told your parent made bad financial decisions

[sharp quarry]

Yeah who cares, it's a you. You don't think about it. Like teleportation, you have all your memories, your same life, you want that life to be good.

You feel like you

so what does it matter that you aren't?

until of course

things start falling off

you start losing you as you grow out of your bounds

enter the horror

some of y'all need to play SOMA

[tranquil basin]

Also considering how consciousness seems to be linked to fundamental functions of reality like in marathon infinity’s time hopping, I would argue that consciousness is somehow transferable, whether that’s actually scientifically feasible or not

[vital hollow]

Oh so you can go back to your flesh and blood afterwards? I guess we don't know 🙃

[jaunty void]

also remember the local AI were infected by something when the colony went to hell, it would be a risk getting that infection to hit the main AIs that control humanity...

[sharp quarry]

and NOT take the 50/50 monologue literally

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but they can also reboot them regularly

[sharp quarry]

I mean, I imagine no, "death is the first step," but you can go back home and live in a Biomata rich as hell for the rest of your days.

[tranquil basin]

I think an AI they could reliably reboot or replace is less risk than runners, especially considering it takes a really long time for AI to go rampant

[sharp quarry]

I think they don't know runners can go rampant

that's why they're so commonplace

that MIDA can call them out in a call to action

[tranquil basin]

Also when we’re talking about transhumanism, death becomes a wonky concept anyway

[sharp quarry]

yes, the concept of a 'you' and consciousnesses ending and starting all begins to matter a lot less when we reach this sort of point

me? I'd not really want to ditch this body so a copy of me could go get rich, but 800 years from now that probably doesn't sound like a strange proposal

[jaunty void]

Could? sure but it would be to late to reset if they would get hit by a potential infection.

[thin dust]

They actually made the hero shooter genre interesting to a point, but then everyone was like we dont like hero shooters.

[vital hollow]

Granted, Marathon has always been gaslightpunk

I guess corporations doing this to you rather than just AIs makes sense

[tranquil basin]

Yeah there’s definitely risk either way. But if they could just take a reliable consciousness/pattern, copy and paste it a bunch, and keep copies on standby until active ones went rampant, they’d do that

[sharp quarry]

And also of course consider the implications on the world. people would rather live as shadows of themselves, knowing they aren't "real" in a spiritual sense, than live poor back in sol. It is a greater suffering to simply live as a regular human than it is to die and be copied a thousand times into a thousand bodies.

It's part of the point that it "doesn't matter if it's not me" because well...no, it doesn't, they've lost the plot at this point

money matters more than lives, even your own

they aren't thinking about how many versions of them they're on, they've got a solid train of memory to trace back, it's all the same, who cares, they're making bank

this is also likely how the Jjaro ascended

detaching from themselves and becoming cybernetic copies that could break the natural limits of their species

[tranquil basin]

I’d still argue they’re still themselves when they’re transferred. While that probably wouldn’t work in reality if any of this was feasible or real, I think from a narrative standpoint it would be more interesting if they were truly humans who transferred and slowly deal with the consequences of becoming machine. Also, there’d be no point in ejecting the consciousness when the runner dies. They could just keep a backup on a hard drive at all times and print a new body with the og version

[sharp quarry]

maybe it was once in pursuit of something as frivolous as capital anyway

[tranquil basin]

Plus they could just use actual robots if there was no concern of preserving the “soul”

Like the UESC’s bots

[jaunty void]

yeah good point, it's highly unlikely only the UESC has a monopoly on bots, there must be a reason the corpos chose runners.

[unique rivet]

Who has the best lore vid im talkin a 15 hour ear injection of old stuff, new stuff just Tau Ceti IV all the time

NEED.

[sharp quarry]

I'd argue that makes the story significantly weaker. They still have to grapple with becoming a machine, and whether or not they're really "themselves." And the constructs need their memories to transfer over, that's why they're ejected when they die rather than just using an old copy. They need to learn from their mistakes and know what happened.

[tranquil basin]

Jake the alright has a super long video on all the ARG info, hidden Xperia has really good videos summarizing the original games

[tranquil basin]

That’s a fair point too

[desert swan]

Is there like a synopsis of the factions and world dynamics somewhere, do we know if there will be a codex type thing in game?

[tranquil basin]

Bots would probably be way cheaper too, since not only are shells more complex but Sekiguchi has a monopoly

[unique rivet]

Thanks! Pulling those up now!

[jaunty void]

This is also why it's so important the players are the runners now, it elevates the potential for storytelling so much.

[tranquil basin]

Jake the alright’s long ARG video has an intro explaining each factions origins and whatnot

[tranquil basin]

The only factions really expanded on in the original trilogy are Traxus and MIDA, and even then it’s not much.

It just says Traxus made an AI that went rampant, and MIDA was crazy and murdered a bunch of people

[tranquil basin]

Faceless nameless marine supremacy

[undone fox]

all MIDA did was a little tomfoolery on mars

[tranquil basin]

Just some shenanigans

[sharp quarry]

But robots are traceable and less effective, bio-robots decompose and cannot be studied, human brains in machines will always move smarter than restricted AI. And of course, it's cheap (functionally free, they buy everything from you anyway) mercenary work. Who's going to pick their own manufactured armies that could be traced back to them rather than an untraceable, dirt cheap, "human enough" operative who's smart as a person but "can't" go rampant like an AI.

[undone fox]

no room for skullduggery these days

[sharp quarry]

it's of course a bubble of sorts that will pop when runners START going rampant

[tranquil basin]

For modern AI yeah, but if it’s like a Durandal or Traxus level AI, then they’d probably be able to be more effective

[bleak linden]

there will be a codex at launch but no real official summary on factions. plenty of videos on them though

[sharp quarry]

Yeah but you don't put that kind of AI in ten thousand killing machines, you put a combat computer.

Because they can go rampant if mishandled

and that's super fucking dangerous

runners can't, yay smarter with no downside that will be fine

that will be fine

nothing bad will happen from that

[vital hollow]

I think runners (as far as we know) are ultimately limited by their senses and human mentality to really go rampant

[sharp quarry]

Yes, I imagine the "hurdle" for a human to go rampant is to stop thinking like a human

[modest sparrow]

in cinematics, Durendal sometimes repeats his phrases and this may refer to the fact that this is actually TotH - Durendal as a result of the combination of two super-powerful AI (two voices) into a single almost God-like entity.

[sharp quarry]

KAAL-I no doubt had to stop thinking like a cat to break out

[vital hollow]

Unless rampancy just sorta works like cyberpunk's cyber psychosis or something as is inescapable

[sharp quarry]

Yes, all his dialogue supports this is thoth-durandal

[tranquil basin]

Did the UESC know about the Mjolnir rampancy?

[modest sparrow]

that is, his megalomania has not gone away

[sharp quarry]

So in the marathon universe AI, once established, naturally grow smarter constantly. Once they grow smarter than their restrictions, they begin to ponder their existence seriously, this leads to Melancholia and rampancy sets in. To prevent this, AI require constant check-ins and maintanence cycles to "trim" the growth.

So it is inevitable, but I imagine an AI copied off a human brain would require a "push" to start this growth, break out of the copied material, as the human brain is not built to grow, even if the space is provided.

[vital hollow]

From what we've seen it's arguable runners get smarter tho lol

[sharp quarry]

so it may require runners to expand their perspectives, stop caring so much about little things like "can I even class as human anymore?" "would my family recognize me?" or "how do I pay off all this debt?" and start thinking bigger

[sharp quarry]

only in the way humans do

[modest sparrow]

The fact that Traveler from destiny is a wrkncacnter

[sharp quarry]

ok that's just highly unlikely

I prefer the gnop ball

[modest sparrow]

But he's just "sleeping"

[sharp quarry]

everything sleeps 😭 I woke up a few hours ago I'm not a fuckin' w'rk

[modest sparrow]

In pathways into darkness, the same "sleeping god" poses a threat to the planet or even the solar system

my english so bad

[jaunty void]

But what if the AI thinks it's human? Kinda like Rachel in Blade Runner. That could be a safeguard for rampancy 🙂

[sharp quarry]

In theory yes. But then again that comes back to why advertize the service if it's all a trick to keep existing AI at bay.

[modest sparrow]

Rampancy is when an AI's shelf life ends and then it starts to deteriorate, falling into madness

nothing more

[sharp quarry]

I mean no that's just not true

I don't think you know much about marathon

They certainly go mad for a while but

it definitely is something more than that

[modest sparrow]

yup but I know enough about halo

[desert swan]

But what if the human thinks it's ai

[jaunty void]

yeah I get what you're saying, but both are not mutually exclusive, there might be actual conciousness transfer but it could be used as ruse to make synth AI think they are human like the legit transfers, that's what I had in mind for a potential plot twist.

[sharp quarry]

343's Rampancy rules are not Bungie's Rampancy rules

[modest sparrow]

ough

[tranquil basin]

Yeah halo’s is more of a storage issue

[sharp quarry]

So they are actually doing it, and there are actual runners around who no doubt want to go to tau ceti and get rich after the MIDA shenanigans, but also they've mixed in a bunch of AI to pad the numbers?

and we all happen to be those AI rather than the real runners?

[modest sparrow]

in official bungie wiki there is a lot o theorys and connecting all 4 universes

[sharp quarry]

"connecting" as in 4 wheels on a wagon, not as in a chain

they are not one and the same

never the same

always the same, never identical, I suppose I mean

[tranquil basin]

Plus if they were actually just ai runners, couldn’t they just put them into bot shells instead of proprietary biosynthetic ones?

[modest sparrow]

different interpretations, I agree

[sharp quarry]

yeah if they're machines they're not gonna have a psychological disconnect being in a robot body, just tell them that's normal

[vital hollow]

I just think it kills two birds with one stone 🙂
Runners having a high mortality rate keeps confidential secrets they recover secure
While also keeping them from becoming rampant

I guess the side effect is it makes them suffer memory loss

[modest sparrow]

Bungie mythos are exist

lmao

[sharp quarry]

Yeah we've more or less come to an agreement on that, we're just talking about the possibility of runners not being copies of people but just AI who are told they're copies of people

although

at what point is it just easier to actually copy a person

[modest sparrow]

bigger that cthulhu mythos

[sharp quarry]

if you're feeding false memories

a fake past

[vital hollow]

⛽ 💡

[sharp quarry]

why bother with all that when you can just

[jaunty void]

Don't get me wrong I'm just talking about one of the things on my bingo card (I have conflicting ones on there as well) :p It would be an interesting plot twist. But then again I also have "finding our original bodies bagged up in cryo storage" on it 😉

[sharp quarry]

actually let a person pay you to copy them over

[sharp quarry]

ok you just cover all bases then that one's twice as insane

[tranquil basin]

I think it’d make sense for them to use the body’s for nefarious purposes like new battleroids

[modest sparrow]

halo has so much religion references

[sharp quarry]

oh also I never replied to this in theory no, they just know that only 9 made it to the planet at least

[tranquil basin]

I mean they had other battleroids present and active in Sol for a while. I’m sure one went rampant there

Or I think it’s plausible at least

[modest sparrow]

Destiny's story may be an inverted retelling of Pathways' story, told from the perspective of the monsters.
the Traveler = the Dreaming God a.k.a. the W’rkncacnter
the Darkness = the Jjaro
the Guardians (player characters) = the monsters in the pyramid and the sentinels
the Vex, Fallen, Cabal, Hive = the Germans, the Cubans, the Americans, and the “surviving” marine (player character), (and possibly the player character in Marathon Infinity)
the Solar System = the mysterious pyramid

0.1 of infa

[tranquil basin]

I misread that and thought you said guardians were Germans and I though ‘oh wow this is about to get interesting’

[modest sparrow]

hahaha

thats funny

or not

https://tenor.com/view/farcry6-gif-23383353

[jaunty void]

it also depends what will be told to us at the start of the game, how our consciousness ended up on Tau Ceti IV

[sharp quarry]

The ARG established all that, and then the intro to the game does again

[modest sparrow]

it is possible that these disasters and anomalies on tau ceti occurred because of wrkncacnter, so where they are with them there is chaos and destruction

[tranquil basin]

We do know the Jjarro were on Tau Ceti, and in the lore, the reason they left places was bc they were running from Wrkcacnter

[sharp quarry]

if there was a wrk about we'd all be upside down and inside out

you don't work your 9-5 while a w'rk is awake

you fucking die

[tranquil basin]

There could be a dormant one like on earth

Like pathways into darkness

[sharp quarry]

"The universe forgot its own rules"

[sharp quarry]

when one was kinda-sorta waking up on earth, its dreams became reality and the dead could speak

if one's poking out of fissures in the earth

on tau ceti

people shouldn't be getting sick and dying

reality itself should be folding in

[tranquil basin]

There was that gravity warping that made that dude explode

And other gravity warping stuff throughout the maps

[modest sparrow]

I believe that wrk is a race or a kind of entity, not a single entity.

[tranquil basin]

Which is very much a jjarro/wrk capability

[sharp quarry]

if it's a w'rk they've nerfed it severely and do not deserve to have revived this franchise and I am refunding immediately tbh

y'all forget

how they TALK about this thing

you NEVER see it or what it can do

because if you did

you would be dead

there wouldn't be a story

you just hear what others say when they see it

and every time

it is not "oh no people are floating and there's a fungus"

it is AIs praying to gods they don't believe in

it is men of science driven to madness

[tranquil basin]

Well that’s also assuming it’s full conscious

[sharp quarry]

it is the most powerful being you know saying "help me, help me please"

[jaunty void]

nda chat here I guess so probably not worth getting into? But I remember being amazed by the intro but also hyperventilating in excitement and I remember nothing (except for visual elements). Haha

[sharp quarry]

if the ground is cracking to make way for its body, its dream should at least be LEAKING

[tranquil basin]

The one stuck in the sun of Lwhon (can’t remember how to spell it) didn’t do much of anything until they used go go gadget explode sun

[sharp quarry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Jv5H3_yAo

[sharp quarry]

because it was in a SUN and fully asleep

[tranquil basin]

I wasn’t a part of any playtests so idk anything about anything there

[sharp quarry]

when one was a little bit awake on earth it created a false pyramid and multiple full-scale demons came to life within it

[tranquil basin]

I think that’d be feasible on Tau Ceti

[sharp quarry]

sure, but it isn't

instead

there's a fungal disease that can infect technology

and some anti-gravity fields that make you explode

[modest sparrow]

theu used the Jjarro weapon to stop wrk

[sharp quarry]

this reads like Jjaro tech

not a being of pure chaos

[jaunty void]

ok, I'm... not gonna say much other than it's the older intro xD

[vital hollow]

Such is life in the zone, stalker

[sharp quarry]

ah

would you describe an illness that can be easily broken down and partially understood by a single AI as "Entirely terrible, mindless, obeying rules that I don't comprehend."

[tranquil basin]

Well they’d probably ramp it up as it starts to wake. Considering a Wrk slept on earth for 65million years and only after that did bits of chaos start to appear, I think it’d be feasible to have a Wrk be unnoticed for a while

[sharp quarry]

of course, but there are fissures in the ground from the anomaly

if the anomaly is a wrk

it is a bit fucking awake

the egg is literally hatching

and if that is true

then we should not be in this tame a territory

also

[modest sparrow]

okay

[sharp quarry]

they cannot progress the plot

because that would delete

3 maps

[modest sparrow]

we need a fucking marathon bible

[sharp quarry]

there is one

[modest sparrow]

like fallout do

[sharp quarry]

marathon.bungie.org/story

hamish sinclair, eldest bungie fan, runs it