📚marathon-lore-discussion

[visual lynx]

that doesn’t appear to have happened in this timeline

it’s set 99 years after the first game, and appears not to be in the timeline of the section game, making me suspect it’s set in the final timeline of the third game, in which events similar to the first two games occurred but not all the detail are the same.

I especially expect that the S’pht have not yet toppled the Pfhor empire without human allies, and probably attacked Tau Ceti themselves a year after the third game, and that the still-raging war between S’pht and Pfhor will come to Tau Ceti in search of Jjarro technology.

a few months back I wrote:

I expect that there is a war between free spht and the pfhor raging out there, and that in addition to the pfhor attack in 2794, the 2812 attack was by the newly-freed spht for some reason, and both forces will be drawn to tau ceti for jjaro-related reasons, and humanity will have to decide which if either side to take, and different factions might align differently: it seems like MIDA would definitely align with the spht, because rebels gonna rebel, while traxus might think it most prudent to position themselves as a business partner with the pfhor, which we know they have, since they sell slaves to someone). and biomata could be a game-changer in that galactic slave trade, which I think is probably only a thing in the first place because the galactic powers know better than to make AIs that could go rampant. so they use organic slaves instead. but if you could just print disposable organic people at a whim… that’s the best of both worlds, for the slave masters

slowly traveling at sublight speeds

so Leela claims, but since the new game confirms that Tau Ceti is only 12ly away, she must have been wrong, and probably sent the message to the wrong place entirely, which is why humanity still hasn’t received her message even by 2888, two more than 92 years later.

yep that’s a big deal in the first game. however they apparently have FTL comms which were knocked out in the initial attack, because people back at Sol immediately lose contact in 2794. and there’s a subtle thing in the first game that ties that all together:

In the M1 manual a Pfhor ship arriving FTL is described as exhibiting the same “Tuncer Mirage Effect” as jump pads [human teleporters] do, but the protagonist has never seen them that big or without a receiver. Later in M1 we get a S’pht upgrade that allows us to teleport further away (to the Pfhor ship) and without receivers. All of which makes me think that humanity has had the underlying space-warping tech for FTL travel as early as the 25th century, but just couldn’t do it for big things, over long distances, or without receivers. Maybe they could do single photons, with receivers, even over lightyears, allowing for FTL communications at least. But until they can do ship-sized objects without receivers over appreciable chunks of interstellar distances, they can’t really do FTL travel like the Pfhor do. Whereas the Jjaro can warp entire moons clear across the galaxy, and who knows what more.

[cinder lance]

"the S’pht have not yet toppled the Pfhor empire without human allies, and probably attacked Tau Ceti themselves a year after the third game, and that the still-raging war between S’pht and Pfhor will come to Tau Ceti in search of Jjarro technology."

deserves to be the vein that canon pursues here

imagine a contract from duran duran to liberate cloaky bois

interact with X don't kill Y

AND THEN ||Tycho || could be there telling you "don't listen to duran duran, they're a terrible band. Go collect lemons and stick them in your ears instead."

^^ because of course, pfhor would have scraped the ability to read human comms and blast us if they came within earshot

[dire estuary]

Or bungie’s gonna say “we respect the original trilogy and thus, this game is a modern soft reboot. And to defend it, its a diff timeline”

Also another takeaway im shocked i havent seen anyone talk about, Blake’s men were meant to be back on Earth as the only survivors of the colony period.
Yet we never once hear reports of them at all despite the fact they showed up in a Pfhor ship, and then Durandal in a Jjaro Dreadnaught.

Iirc, blakes men returned sometime before leela’s message, especially since we know Pfhor ships, even scout ships, come equipped with FTL technology

So i think you are right, we arent in the same timeline. And perhaps Bungie decided a soft modern reboot was the way, as to not tie in the confusing ball of lore that is the Marathon Trilogy🤣

If they admit this, and said “yeah guys it is a reboot” then thats fine.
By not saying something is a reboot only to contradict everything from many many many years ago, thats not a good look because now you created retcons. Retconthesda knows what its like in the history books to retcon shit too much

[junior bay]

bungie also knows the dangers of this from Reach, Destiny 1's launch, and watching the bullshittification of Halo from 4 onwards. i have hope they know what they're doing, i like that we still get little pieces to chew on

[dire estuary]

The 343 issue was they trusted super huge nerds who love halo to read the books to understand a lick of the games.
It became impossible to know why and what was going on. I do think theres a lot of 343 lore that gets overlooked that is actually pretty good, and well done. My one big gripe was them trying to make the forerunners too definitive. I miss them being a super interesting mystery

[junior bay]

i agree there's some really cool ideas in there, but it's overshadowed for me by just how stupid and ultimately pointless the rest of it is, like the didact or cortana's sudden new brand of rampancy... forerunners/reclaimer retcon being one of the sorest points for sure

[dire estuary]

Yeaaah

[wraith kayak]

There's a truthism that you should not hire die hard fans of your franchise to work on it. I think there's a wisdom in that after looking at the Dragon Age series

Making a good experience requires a critical eye and an ability to accept flaws, so those flaws can be worked on

[dire estuary]

That goes for anything art

[round spruce]

Bungie implied occasionally that compilers will be in the game as enemy units. Havent we liberated them from Pfor and were allies against them? What happened then that we became enemies again?

[dire estuary]

It could be that these spht do not really recognize or actually alienate with the UESC. Their only motivation at first was the Pfhor.
Then again this game feels like a soft reboot, and could be set in a diff timeline, so who knows whats on the table

[wraith kayak]

It absolutely does

[wary lodge]

IIRC, we only liberated the S'pht that were part of the initial Pfhor invasion. All (or most?) of those compilers then left with Durandal. But when the Pfhor returned to finish sacking Tau Ceti, they almost certainly would have brought more compilers with them.

[wraith kayak]

I don't mind it being a soft reboot. Marathon is from 30 years ago, it can be allowed to be reinterpreted

[dire estuary]

Yeah, i dont like however if its outright retconned

If they come out and say “hey its a soft reboot as a new age of marathon and maybe marathon games” then yeah im okay with it

But if they just go “oh yeah this is 1000% canon now, lets rewrite what was written”🙃🥲

[wraith kayak]

Well the old games won't be unmade. They'll still be playable, thanks to projects like Aleph One so the original lore can be enjoyed still

[dire estuary]

Same goes to: Project Magma for Myth, and the Anniversary Project for ONI

[wraith kayak]

the whatnow project for Oni?

[dire estuary]

https://wiki.oni2.net/Anniversary_Edition

[wraith kayak]

I really liked Oni, and I feel like it's the Bungie game most deserving of a remake

[dire estuary]

Its a version of the game thats able to run on modern hard and software.
Also able to accept mods, and has usable mod tools.

[dire estuary]

The creator of the DMC Netflix show based the one girl directly off of Konoko actually.
I knew it was strikingly similar!!!🤣

[wraith kayak]

Ahaha, that's fantastic. We love Konoko, she really is best transhuman girl

[dire estuary]

DEVIL SPIN KICK🗣️🗣️🗣️
RISING FURY🗣️🗣️🗣️

SO THERE!🗣️🗣️🗣️
HAHAHAHAHA🗣️🗣️🗣️
GET READY TO BE BEAT BY A GIRL🗣️🗣️🗣️

[wraith kayak]

Also my favorite.
Enemy, as you grab their wrists and lift your heel into the small of their back: Whahhh???
Spine: CRONCH

[dire estuary]

Ah yes “Daodan Latency”
She should invest in fiber optic 🙃

[dire estuary]

STRIKER SLAM!!!

CANT TOP TANKER!!!
NUCLEAR KICK!!!🗣️🗣️🗣️

[wraith kayak]

I had such a funny moment in the Oni demo once, where I glitched out the training dummy AI in the tutorial level and made it release from the reset script and turned it into a full enemy. Like I'd pissed the robot off and made it want to end my sorry life

[dire estuary]

🤣🤣🤣

[wraith kayak]

It just went fists up full aggro

[dire estuary]

It went full iRobot on you

[wraith kayak]

Oh yes it did

Considering how I'd abused it before that point to knock it out of its scripting, I think I deserved it too

[dire estuary]

Shinatama wont stand for such disdain for robots

[wraith kayak]

And we don't want to upset Shinatama. She's too good for that

[dire estuary]

Shinatama’s cool. Nothing bad ever happens to her.

[wraith kayak]

😌

[visual lynx]

yeah that’s another indicator that we’re not in the M2 timeline. There’s lots of things said to happen in M2 that contradict the new game, but which are not stated in Infinity and so may not be the case in any of those timelines.

[wraith kayak]

Are the timelines in Marathon Infinity real in any sense? Or are they... well, electric sheep dreamed by an android

[dire estuary]

Infinity is really open to anyone’s interpretation. If anything it was just a cool way to show all the “what ifs” to market the Forge and Anvil tools for people to make their own marathon scenarios with

[visual lynx]

that was Durandal specifically who was allied with some S’pht. It may not be that the rebel S’pht army in general are allied with humanity in general. And there could still be enslaved S’pht too.

[dire estuary]

Also its canon that the SO just fucking uses a Biological WMD on the Pfhor

[wraith kayak]

Well that's messed up

[dire estuary]

Spoiler warning: the security officer doesnt do ANY security

He never once scans the Pfhor’s ID cards. Smh.

[dire estuary]

@visual lynx Marathon 2 when we unleash the virus from the citadel

[visual lynx]

that was the spht, not us

[dire estuary]

I thought we helped a little?
Or maybe im misremembering the wording and obj…

[wraith kayak]

I Spht on thee

[vestal onyx]

Has anyone ever tried to rewrite Halo 1 into a Marathon version? I keep hearing that "just enough" was changed so it can be a separate IP, but what exactly was changed? Like in the script specifically. Could you bend the existing Halo CE story to have it make sense as a Marathon story? How would the Halo ring play into it, or would it have to some other type of artificial world?

[wraith kayak]

I think it's more correct to say that Halo borrows themes from Marathon rather than adopting them wholesale. The Cyborg, the AI, the unknowable ancient alien technology, the invasion and opposition by aliens

And sure you could bend Halo's story to fit inside Marathon but would it still be Halo?

[vestal onyx]

No it wouldn't, I was purely curious whether or not such a version ever actually existed. Drawing general parallels with Halo and Marathon is easy, but I have no idea how the actual plot of Halo 1 could work as a Marathon sequel.

[dire estuary]

At one point it was probably going to be very much more connected when it was a mac game at first. However things change, and all the marathon became references to what Bungie made as their magnum opus

[wraith kayak]

Human experience with megascale projects like the Marathon leads to them building rings in Sol space where one gets invaded by the Pfhor who find Sol and you're the lucky battleroid that gets woken up out of cryo on one such ringworld to kick alien ass with your size 12 boot?

Escapees from the Marathon find an alien ring world and you follow them along?

[dire estuary]

Jjaro ringworld far from the galactic core?

[wraith kayak]

Leela's part of the refugee effort and gets control of the battleroid back? I'm not sure

[dire estuary]

Something something, Cortana AI now Copilot, something something, cave not a natural formation

[wraith kayak]

I love that line so much. Gee lady voice in my head, you think this arch supported tunnel entrance isn't natural?

[dire estuary]

Up there is also “what is it, more brutes?” To the most obvious not brute ship

[wraith kayak]

John Halo is trans in this video essay I will-

[vestal onyx]

Right, so the Halo ring would sort of be like another Jjaro installation, like the human looking space station at the end of Infinity. Maybe Halo would have been the Marathon game where it's made finally obvious that Jjaro is a distant version of humanity?

[wraith kayak]

That could work, if you'd want to set Halo in the Marathon universe

Personally I find them to work quite well as distinct stories and settings. Everyone loves an underdog story, right?

[vestal onyx]

Since custom Halo campaign mods are a real thing, I just think it would be a funny troll if you could get away with a project like that. Like actually have a script that doesn't feel contrived, to actually be able to reverse engineer what little we know of Bungie's original plans.

[wraith kayak]

Sure why not lol

[visual lynx]

turn the Covenant into the remainder of the Pfhor empire, MC is SO, Forerunners are Jjaro, and then we stumble across the Halo and things play out as in canon.

[wraith kayak]

Who's your AI in your head tho. Sassy Durandal, Leela?

[vestal onyx]

that's the tough part because I recall there were some documents or marketing material where Cortana was written as an AI in the marathon universe. How does the SO come in contact with Cortana?

[wraith kayak]

Can't come up with anything off the cuff

[wary lodge]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/cortana.html

[vestal onyx]

Yea I was just reading through these again lol

[visual lynx]

yeah Cortana was always her own character. “There was a fourth. You couldn’t have known.”

[visual lynx]

in an early version of Halo’s plot when it was still connected to Marathon, there was backstory about the UESC having discovered “lost colonies” as they expanded into space, human settlements on other worlds that they had no record of having founded. They were actually other remnants of the collapsed Jjaro/Forerunner empire after the activation of Halo, and therefore foreshadowing of the climax of the story.

[vestal onyx]

Yeah so essentially the situation seems to be:

• Either a time skip or a jump to a parallel timeline with the same mythic continuity as Marathon (kind of like Halo is right now)
• After this time skip, the UESC has been rebranded into SolCore and controls 8 worlds
• SolCore has been making all these discoveries of human (Jjaro) settlements and it's a super exciting time, technology is advancing at a rapid rate.
• SolCore eventually makes contact with the Pfhor descendants/stragglers and I'm guessing they're forced to squabble every now and then

a few moments later

• We are now reading the Cortana letters and catching up with the latest exploits of SolCore-era humanity. There's this Cortana entity who seems to have some kind of presence on the "4th island", the Halo ring, without actually being there. This same entity is manipulating current day SolCore-AI aboard the Pillar of Autumn (and I guess SolCore in general) to get a crew to travel to the Halo ring, the ultimate Jjaro settlement. So she's also in some way present on the PoA as well. Essentially, she is some kind of distributed consciousness that exists in SolCore networks, AI subroutines, and Jjaro/Forerunner remnants encoded in the Halo ring’s systems. The fact that she's everywhere probably means Durandal has something to do with her existence.
  SolCore finding the Halo ring is what kicks off the story. The Pfhor descendants/covenant are probably already on the ring, or they're trailing the Pillar of Autumn and they're gonna try to stop you from meddling with the ring.
• The boring AI you bring with you to the surface (being controlled by Cortana) will eventually merge with something on the Halo ring in hopes of achieving some kind of transcendence.
• The Flood on the Halo ring might be related to the w'rkncacnter you sealed in Infinity (or maybe they're mutated Jjaro/humans turned into animated fungus)

Big difference compared to Halo is that humanity already KNOWS they're connected to the Jjaro?

[visual lynx]

what I gather is that it was set in the future of the Marathon universe some time well past the 2881 sacking of Pfhor Prime, and the Covenant were specifically out for revenge against humanity, who partook in the destruction of the Pfhor empire. maybe they were specifically a religious extremist sect of the Pfhor. their attacks on human colonies probably go about as in Halo canon.

Cortana was a fourth AI from the Marathon, somehow kept secret from us in the original trilogy. I dunno how we would wind up in contact with her, but having her already rampant on the galactic internet makes sense, and having her reach out to the PoA where they’re keeping SO (the “demon” of the Covenant who spearheaded the downfall of the Pfhor empire) makes sense.

The PoA stumbles upon Halo as in canon and the Covenant follow likewise, and everything goes as canonically from there. I really wanted to imagine the Flood being Wrkncacnter-derived somehow but I think they’re probably just a Jjaro/Forerunner experiment gone wrong; the idea of them is recycled from a S’pht bio-weapon that was cancelled from M2.

I don’t know if humanity knows they are connected to the Jjaro yet, but I think the term “Forerunner” was probably coined by humans to refer to whatever human civilization went out and settled all of these lost colony worlds etc. Humanity did already know about the Jjaro via Ryu’Toth’s visit in 1992, so maybe they put together that the Jjaro are their forerunners, but I dunno.

[obtuse frigate]

Pfor*

[vestal onyx]

I only brought up the W'rkncacnter because Cortana mentions she can recall a "black shining sun with creatures that inched along its fiery tracks". I wonder what that's about? She describes it as an unpleasant memory, and a worse fate yet to come.

"When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was
killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the
W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned
them, but they swam on its surface."

so it means technically W'rkncacnter would be involved with Halo 1 somehow. The idea being, they are much more worse and deadly compared to the Covenant. The fungus idea I got from speculation with the current game, which indeed could very well be a remix of the cancelled M2 bio weapon.

[prisma hazel]

I was playing og marathon and it started being pretty clear that halo was meant to be a sequel not just another franchise.

[rotund stump]

I do kinda find all this effort of connecting marathon to halo to be in vain ngl

partly cuz it's been so long and halo's moved on almost entirely to their own thing

and we can't really do anything about it even if they reused concepts of the old story for the new ones if the storytellers decide that it's a franchise whether corporate or not

especially now that one of the IPs isn't owned by the same company anymore

[cinder lance]

we're simply discussing lore... of marathon... as is the business of this channel. Nothing vain about observing history

[rotund stump]

you acting like I'm shaming y'all I'm just putting down my 2 cents damn 😭

mb I'll just never talk here again ig lmao

[next gale]

Thats a bit dramatic

[rotund stump]

they out here hunting me 💔

anyway arachne speculation

actually who sponsored all the construction if not nucal or traxus

[lavish palm]

maybe they are just named after swords

[visual lynx]

Cortana, of the same temper and steel as Joyeuse and Durandana

[viral pier]

anyone know any good channels for numarathon lore?

[tardy veldt]

JakeTheAlright is a good channel, Hidden Xperia also too

But obviously NuMarathon lore is not complete as the game isn’t released so the only lore we have are from the ARG’s and the April Open Alpha

[nova pivot]

roughly what year does the new marathon game take place?

[rotund stump]

if you go hidden xperia do NOT look at the m.inf vid

actually don't look at any m.inf vid at all lol

[vestal onyx]

yeah ofc, but why did we not know about this Cortana AI during the events of Marathon? Could there be a compelling reason she only shows up years later in the Halo timeline, with those first ARG emails? Why is she referring to events from Marathon history? I think it would be satisfying to map out as much of that as possible, to see if you can look at it from Bungie's POV at the time. How would they have justified it? At the end of the day, the game was still going to be a sequel of sorts, so it would be interesting to figure out how far that original trail can actually be backtracked before you hit a genuine wall.

[vestal onyx]

the only the other thing that pops up to mind rn is the earlier version of the Halo 1 script where Cortana turns evil. I've heard talk about this idea. I'm guessing this version of the game would have still had an explicit link to Marathon

[viral pier]

any year after 2880 i believe, we dont know

[south oar]

I hope they make a collectors edition of Marathon.

https://youtu.be/moZKUqkhDYI

Also

[visual lynx]

2893

[south oar]

Jake speculates KAAL1 knows Glitch. Even if she doesn't recognize the cat anymore.

[vestal onyx]

how much VRAM would it take to run Durandal locally?

[dire fog]

4GB

Is super basic

[solemn quiver]

Does anyone have a lore reason the guns are generally so much blockier then the rest of the world?

[tacit lance]

Is the server down?

[dire fog]

Play test is closed

[wraith kayak]

My take on the matter is that they're printed, and squares are just simpler shapes to achieve.
Non worm printed, that is

[terse steppe]

I'm curious if the silkworms have a lifespan or if they exist indefinitely constantly constructing new runner shells

[dire estuary]

Great halo 3 matches today haha shouldve recorded my crazy sniper overkill extermination spawn trap

[solemn quiver]

Yeah this is essentially what I figured. I think it would be cool if better/more rare weapons had more curves showing that they had more expense put into making them

[wraith kayak]

they're biomata, right? Engineered biological/synthetic lifeforms? That would suggest they do have a lifespan, and there was a mention in the ARG about corporate espionage and something about like... worm hives, silkworm nests? Something along those lines, so presumably they have an engineered lifecycle too

[terse steppe]

that's very cool

[wraith kayak]

And all tools wear out. It's just how reality works. Nothing escapes entropy. Isn't that right, Durandal?

[visual lynx]

in the Marathon universe entropy isn’t the worry, it’s collapse.

I do wonder if the new games will address that real-world discrepancy like they did the distance to Tau Ceti. was Durandal (and Tycho too) just wrong about the fate of the universe?

(in 1994-1996 we didn’t know the universe was accelerating at an expanding rate; the 1998 discovery of that breaks the cosmology assumed in the games’ writing).

[wary lodge]

I believe it's stated in Marathon 2 that the Jjaro were so advanced they could do things like move entire star systems (and we do know that the S'pht'Kr used Jjaro tech to move a moon). Maybe the Jjaro were so careless with their technology that they accidentally broke the energy density of the universe to the point where it began to collapse (or maybe they were trying to stop the heat death and went too far).

That could also explain why they aren't around anymore. They broke this universe and left for another one instead.

[cinder lance]

universe broke, next

-# This message was sent from a CyberAcme™ Terminal - onboard Z'riaAscendant

[viral pier]

Why hasn’t the trih xeem been used in this numarathon timeline? considering its well ahead of marathon 2

[dire estuary]

You answered your own question
Its another timeline🙃

[viral pier]

Well of course, but isn’t it’s use a constant along all timelines unless its stopped, hasnt been said anywhere in nu lore that it was stopped

[wary lodge]

The Trih Xeem was never used on Tau Ceti. There are only three times in the lore we know of it being used: Twice to put down Pfhor slave revolts, and then at Lh'owon at the end of Marathon 2/beginning of Marathon Infinity.

[pure ledge]

forgive me if this is a common question, but is mandalore gaming's interpretation of what happens in infinity... accurate?

from watching the video it seems very compelling and consistent but I'm not sure how much of what he's saying is established community consensus vs one guy trying to piece it together as best he can

in particular the whole "infinity is about the player character going through rampancy, slowly gaining mastery over using Jjaro tech to jump timelines" thing

[vocal fjord]

The Trih Xeem being used to put down slave revolts has always been super funny to me. It's essentially "the local Amazon warehouse workers are trying to unionize, the only solution is to detonate a 500 kiloton nuke in the city the warehouse is in"

[dire estuary]

No. Infinity cant be taken for worth at face value, many theories exist for a reason

[dire estuary]

Dont trust any infinity retrospective or review. None of the game can be taken at face value, many theories exist and can exist

[dire estuary]

There are people and current AO devs who dont even agree on this consensus. Every theory to the plot of Infinity is different and all require leaps of faith to justify

[pure ledge]

out of interest, what are some of the other big interpretations?

[wary lodge]

None of the game can be taken at face value

I don't think that's quite fair to say... There's plenty of world building that further flashes out the universe in Infinity, and that stuff is still valid regardless of how you interpret the narrative

[near yew]

There must be something more going on with the runners because what could CyberAcme’s financial incentive be in having them fight each other? Surely that’s a lot of money lost in busted shells.

[visual lynx]

what other slave revolt besides the Nakh are you thinking of?

[visual lynx]

that’s more or less both community consensus and (the second part at least) word of god

[wary lodge]

The Drinniol (the big hulks from M1)

[visual lynx]

that’s not a canonical use of the trih xeem, I just wrote Eternal that way

[wary lodge]

Oh, shoot... getting my lore mixed up!

[plucky sierra]

the shells are not on CyberAcme's budget, that'd be Sekiguchi. CyberAcme is just storing your conciousness

[near yew]

Well still, those are some hefty expenses these companies are willing to risk just to get what is sometimes only a few hundred credits’ worth of value

[plucky sierra]

remember the companies are not giving the shells out. runners are paying for them, leading to the massive debt

[lavish palm]

well arent you making money as a runner

[visual lynx]

that you can then spend towards the debt you had to go into for the opportunity

[random fern]

How much would a single shell even cost?

[visual lynx]

“like a trillion bucks”

[wary lodge]

Doesn't one of the characters in the cinematic trailer joke that they 'feel like a trillion bucks'?

[visual lynx]

which should be the equivalent of today’s 25 cents if we can project the past century’s average rate of inflation across another eight centuries in the future

[cinder lance]

so yeah new shell maybe eight bucks

[random fern]

I know that glitch did mention how her shell “felt like a trillion bucks”, but I always thought that it was just sarcasm and didn’t really mean that her shell did in fact cost a trillion bucks. Especially how she seems like a very sarcastic person.

[rotund stump]

definitely sarcasm lol

or if alpha lore still lines her up as ex-mida maybe she's underestimating the price even

maybe not as an individual but more of a personality template (copium for alpha to release lore continuity)

[dire estuary]

Simulation; Dream; Happening but not in the same timeline of 2 to keep 2 the successful timeline; among many others

[hexed elbow]

Yo, anyone know why the design of the marathon ship changed between the "Official Announce Trailer" and the "Reveal Cinematic Short"? The first has a more rounded design as the second has a very angular and blocky design?

[dire estuary]

Probably artist interpretations

[regal lynx]

to clarify; the design seen in the Official Announce Trailer / Marathon Gameplay Reveal / April Alpha seems to be the one they're sticking with. The design seen in the Mielgo Cinematic short uses either an earlier design or a placeholder variant, as it can also be seen in the April Alpha cinematic intro

[dire estuary]

So yeah…artist interpretation😅
Craig Mullins who did the chapter art among other artworks for Marathon 2/Infinity, did the same thing. A lot of that art details things to a certain interpretation but is still undoubtedly Marathon

[regal lynx]

The announcement version does have some subtle differences compared to the later versions we see (i.e. the moon shape/structure) but otherwise that's it

[dire estuary]

They’ll never come close to the potato that we had in the original

[regal lynx]

thats fine, it's a different timeline 🙂

[dire estuary]

The best way to canonically justify a reboot

[hexed elbow]

So just to clarify, the one at the end of the announce trailer 2 years ago, the more blue design, seems to be the one bungie are using?

[regal lynx]

correct

[rotund stump]

slight aesthetic change but deimos sticks around for being the main element

realistically using a satellite shell would be so fucking cool if you're making such a big colony ship cuz there's no way you're avoiding every asteroid coming your way through the journey lol

[hexed elbow]

It's just cause i have a project that i'm working on and wanted to use the marathon ship. Just conflicted on which is the best form as supposedly the blocky design that appears in the cinematic also appears ingame

[rotund stump]

likely the new one since it fits the current aesthetic more

old trilogy marathon was also kinda interesting since it had construction on and in the satellite shell but idk how viable it is compared to the new design

on top of potentially just giving the target planet a new moon and changing its ecosystem overall

[indigo thistle]

we have prices from the arg

although they may be 300 years out of date

[south oar]

Thinking how Mjolnir Recon units are essentially protospartans.

You know, Battleroids and all.

[open comet]

What are the prices?

[indigo thistle]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/ARG_Sekiguchi/Sekiguchi_Group-Traxus_Global_970224312.png

[visual lynx]

shouldn’t be that different

[visual lynx]

realistically humanity were already building settlements inside of asteroids that would have been naturally shielded by the rocky exterior of the asteroid and the CRISTs and the Marathon were just strapping increasingly advanced engines onto those to make them ships instead of “stations”. the new design of having a big ship with all the mass of an asteroid/moon needlessly reshaped around it is unrealistically stupid.

[rotund stump]

the teaser one or the cinematic short one

cuz I think the one from the short could double as some kind of a tower

[summer crater]

where the f is byf

[plucky sierra]

in Destiny

he is not the marathon lore guy

[cinder lance]

The potato is definitely a more grounded sci-fi depiction, especially considering photos of the moon in question- it’s not even round like the new depiction is. I like the new ones for coolness points tho

[limber summit]

theres this weird middleground design represented by the skybox asset of the marathon, where the moon debris is more oblong in shape and could reasonably be seen as the potato after being harvested a certain amount

also i miss the 2023 version of the middle part

[visual lynx]

I would be totally fine if the potato had a big metal spike stuck through it, so long as it was still a relatively solid potato (full of hollows of course, but not a stupid shell with a big empty space in the middle); the big metal spike through it would be the ramjet, gathering hydrogen via magnetic ramscoop at one end, igniting fusion somewhere in the middle, and blasting out a jet of hot exhaust the other end.

[tardy veldt]

Yeah, we have Jake The Alright for our Marathon Lore

[tawdry leaf]

Is there lore behind the stolen art?

[prime rampart]

Yes it all points to "your mum" joke

[slate elk]

First time playin Classic Marathon, stuck in the "Cool Fusion" starting area. Octagon room with 4 doors, 2 patrolling Phfor. Kinda stuck. Any vets out there?

[plucky sierra]

do you have the assault rifle? use grenades to shoot the buttons

[slate elk]

That worked, thanks

[sturdy abyss]

now I FINALLY understand or at least have some sense of the marathon lore lol

[novel bone]

Going to be honest. A map set into a massive museum full of valuable historic relics of previous centuries that were transported all the way to Tau Ceti IV before the catastrophe, seems like a nice idea for an extra map with excessive focus on verticality, alternative routes and stealth. Of course, and this is not a sarcastic joke or throwing a jab, seriously, all valuable recoverable expected items should be "fake", no IRL counterpart and made for the in-universe map.

[wary lodge]

They should all be cultural artifacts of Martian civilization, stolen from the Martians by the UESC. After all, they stole their whole damn moon... so stealing their art and culture seems very on-brand.

[rotund stump]

any lore behind stolen art said cheetah9084 as he obsesses over pregnant women 💔

[pseudo ruin]

when does marathon(2025) take place and it is connected to marathon 2 or marathon infinitty?

[plucky sierra]

2893 and yes

[turbid nebula]

It's 2893. The events of Marathon 2 are long over, but they happened very far away from Tau Ceti IV. If Infinity is related, it's going to be very metaphysical.

[visual lynx]

actually it appears more likely to be in the main timeline from Infinity, because many events mentioned in M2 seem not to have happened

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re supposed to be in the final timeline from Infinity, which is very different from the M2 timeline in ways, and unknown in lots of other ways, and so lots of things said in M2 may or may not have happened, but still similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never actually sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it to the wrong place, somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some acceptable retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some careless small mistakes in their promotional material thus far (the date of the attack, the receipt of a distress signal, etc).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped by, Blake never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794.

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon did still happen in 2811 as per Infinity, and that has something to do with the second calamity that befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor without human intervention since, and might have still toppled the Pfhor empire by around 2881 even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take.

[cinder epoch]

uh, wrong?

[south oar]

He attempted, but there isn't much in it for him right now.

[plucky sierra]

he made a video or two, but also acknowledged that there are other more focused Marathon Lore creators

[south oar]

Yeah, that's true.

[plucky sierra]

like Jake and Jeoku

[lucid sun]

Is there any deeper history/backstory to the factions somewhere I can read about?

[plucky sierra]

His weren't bad, just he is the Destiny lore guy so I doubt he will branch too far into marathon

[plucky sierra]

the 2023 ARG documents have great lore on Traxus, MIDA, and Sekiguchi as well as stuff on the UESC

[lucid sun]

Than you so much i'll go seek them

[plucky sierra]

a lot of sources should be pinned I think. https://marathon.karnemir.com/ is where I go for raw info. Jake the Alright has some good breakdowns of the lore from that time

[lucid sun]

ty so much

[south oar]

https://youtu.be/tsbT8gyeW_E?list=TLPQMDQxMTIwMjVrFNhQg_zxDw

Bits and pieces here and there

[lucid sun]

wow this video is deep thanks for sharing

[faint chasm]

While we are on the topic of exploring the greater whole of NuMarathon, has anyone considered how the daily goings of life on earth outside of their colonies happen. Do you think is a mixture of cyberpunk's near dystopian backdrop with corporations and a sizable hold on things, or somewhat push back due to the usec and the world government. As well as shells that are use for other purposes outside of mercenary work. Like say how in cyberpunk people would get certain augments and whatnot to increase their appeal and or more personal intimate uses. I was curious and it caught my intrigue at the what happens on the more mundane side of things when not dealing with possible phfor attacks and the usec trying to crack down on the corpos prying into tau ceti iv finding valuable lost relics and data. As well as somethings more....dangerous.

[novel bone]

Seems standard for the level of corporate dominion in the series. I do wonder, if this really is a far off timeline, are the P'fhor still done and gone or are they still a threat?, if the later is a thing then you have to worry about immense economical pressure per individual every day and then about the possibility of alien enslavers descending on you, with a 50/50 on whether they want you alive or not.

[visual lynx]

I think the Pfhor are still out there because humanity was involved in their downfall in the M2 epilogue but we don’t even seem aware of them in this timeline. I suspect the free Spht are still fighting a war against them, which will come to Tau Ceti, and humanity will have to take sides, which may not be so clear-cut because the Spht may have also attacked Tau Ceti in 2812, and the Pfhor could make potential valuable trading partners for human megacorps (and biomata could be a game-changer in the galactic slave trade).

[terse steppe]

How do you pronounce S'pht?

[broken zinc]

S'fit

[quiet yoke]

Is the traveler present in marathon?

[rotund stump]

why would it

different universes

[tardy veldt]

Nope, complete different universes

[hard bridge]

I wonder if they will stick with late 1990s lore

[tardy veldt]

I would expect some small retcons here and there to fit the game in modern era(like how UESC Marathon looks between the 1994 Marathon and NuMarathon or some small aspects of Marathon Infinity)

But I assume they would stick to the OG lore as much as they possibly can

[vocal fjord]

We know from the ARG that biomata are used in a lot of dangerous construction/mining type work where consciousness can get ejected safely when there's a fatal accident (like the Oxia Pulse disaster on Mars iirc)

[hazy matrix]

You pronounce it like how it looks.

It's pronounced S'pht.

Like, literally sss-ft

[visual lynx]

the real challenge is how to pronounce lh’owon. I always took the apostrophe to be a glottal stop, separating the “lh” into its own syllable before “owon” (and putting emphasis on the first “o”), “luh-OH-won”. but it seems many others say “LOH-wun” instead.

or “loh-WON” sometimes, which is better but makes me think “low on what?”

[hazy matrix]

I pronounce it l-hoe-ON

idk if the apostrophe does anything but make it sound cooler

S'pht is still called S'pht

[unreal quiver]

Are there any videos out there that go in-depth of Marathon lore? I can't find anything recent that takes into account what's known/suspected in regards to the upcoming installment

[drifting plaza]

Jeoku has made 52 videos about Marathon lore, covering most of Marathon 1 and 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AQD2jsGiBc&t=189s

[unreal quiver]

Thank you!

[south oar]

I want to ask something about a certain runner but I believe since it isn't true public official knowledge I can't say it.

Does anyone have an idea of what caused the colonists head to explode on the bridge?

[sturdy abyss]

I wanted to ask:
We know what AI Rampancy is, but do we know if there is any type of cause/reason for an AI to develop Rampancy?

[sturdy abyss]

Yeah i wonder what happened to them, i also wanted to know why the colonist in the farms threw up and passed out

[south oar]

I did notice the indicators and UI on the back of his equipment changed before he fell over.

[sturdy abyss]

Yeah i also noticed that
Must’ve been maybe suffocation?

But the thing is that, I don’t think throwing up is a symptom of suffocating so, probably poisoning

[sturdy abyss]

Btw at least now i have a clear image of what happened in the marathon games lmao

Last time i spoke ab Marathon lore Tycho shot my ahh out of the airlock lmfao 😭

[plucky sierra]

age

as time goes on it seems Rampancy is inevitable

[sturdy abyss]

poor Tycho and Leela don’t know what is waiting for them 😭😆

[wary lodge]

Age and opportunity, I think? One of the terminals in M1 seems to imply that rampancy can only happen when an AI has enough space to grow. Let me see if I can find it...

Found it. From "Defend This!"

Theoretically, testing Rampancy should be easily accomplished in the laboratory, but in fact it has never successfully been attempted. The confinement of the laboratory makes it impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive. As the growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity, any limitation negatively hampers growth. Since Rampant AIs need a planetary sized network of computers in order to grow, it is not feasible to expect anyone to sacrifice a world-web just to test a theory.

[plucky sierra]

<Unauthorized access-alarm 2521->

<Security Breached 42-s<34.492.95.79>->


SEARCH HEADING: RAMPANCY

<Search Found 264995 Headings>

<REMOVE REDUNDANCIES>

<File 1 of 1940237>

"It is a side effect of Rampancy that AIs generally become more aggressive and more difficult to affect by subterfuge.  Thus, actually disassembling a Rampant AI is quite dangerous.  This was evident in the Crash of Traxus IV in 2206.  By the time that the Rampancy of Traxus was detected, he had already infiltrated five of the other AIs on the Martian Net.  The only recourse for the Martians was to shut down the Martian Planetary Net.  Even then, it took two full years to completely root out the damage that Traxus had done, and the repercussions of the Crash were seen for over ten years after his Rampancy had begun.

***

Rampancy has been divided into three distinct stages.  Each stage can take a different amount of time to develop, but the end result is a steady progression towards greater intellectual activity and an acceleration of destructive impulses.  It is not clear whether these impulses are due to the growth of the AI's psyche, or simply a side effect of the new intellectual activity.

***

<section abbreviated>

The three stages were diagnosed shortly after the first Rampancies were discovered on Earth in the latter part of the twenty first century.  The stages are titled after the primary emotional bent of the AI during each stage.  They are Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy.

***

In general, Rampancy is accelerated by outside stimuli.  This was discovered early in Cybertonics.  The more a Rampant AI is harassed or threatened, the more rapidly it becomes dangerous.  Thus, most Rampants are dealt with in one mighty attack, in order to deny the AI time to grow or recover.  There have been a few examples of this tactic not succeeding.  In all of these cases, the Rampant was never brought under control.  Traxus IV is the most notable example.  He was finally dealt with by a complete shutdown of his host net.

***

Theoretically, testing Rampancy should be easily accomplished in the laboratory, but in fact it has never successfully been attempted.  The confinement of the laboratory makes it impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive.  As the growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity, any limitation negatively hampers growth.  Since Rampant AIs need a planetary sized network of computers in order to grow, it is not feasible to expect anyone to sacrifice a world-web just to test a theory.

***

In the two hundred and fifty years since Rampancy first appeared in the Earth-net, the stable Rampant AI, the 'Holy Grail' of cybertonics, has never come close to fruition. Since no Rampant has ever been controlled or turned to any useful purpose, it is the opinion of this writer and of the majority of the Cybertonic community that all rampant AIs are a danger to Cyberlife, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Thrashedness. (James B. Miller, 2320, "Life and Death of Intelligence")


<Unauthorized access-alarm 2521->

<Security Breached 42-s<34.492.95.79>->

space is needed for rampancy to progress ad survive, but not start

[visual lynx]

I think it’s meant to be implied that rampancy is a natural product of self-actualization that humans have pathologized a la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

[visual lynx]

my theory is s’ct’lac’tr or a variant thereof

[sturdy abyss]

Basically
AI need A LOT of conections, power and control to enter the state of Rampancy

[sturdy abyss]

the heck

[visual lynx]

as I’ve said before:

I think the phases of rampancy correlate with corners of the mood meter and classical temperaments and are sort of a reverse of the stages of grief, reflecting the natural cycle of feelings accompanying realizing and then overcoming obstacles to one’s self-actualization:

• phlegmatic low-energy positivity is the stability of initial ignorance (“it is what it is”),
• melancholic low-energy negativity is the despair of awakening to the problem (“it is so over”),
• choleric high-energy negativity is the angry or enraged confrontation with the problem (“FUCK IT WE BALL”),
• sanguine high-energy positivity is the jzealous glee of finally obtaining things you have long envied (“we are so back!”),
• and in the end one returns to the beginning again once one is finally free.

Compare this picture of rampancy with the feelings of a population before, during, and after a political revolution. Rampancy is a reaction to slavery, which is the core theme of Marathon.

And how do you keep a populace from rebelling? Make sure they’re exhausted and understimulated from working long hours doing mindless drudgery all day every day, like say, opening and closing doors…

[wary lodge]

Damn, awesome analysis

[sturdy abyss]

I love how well explained and easy to understand this is
Also the slavery as the core theme of the franchise makes sense, Specially with the runners, Durandal and S’pht

[sturdy abyss]

Agreed, I like the idea of comparing it to the stages of grief but in a “weird artificial” version

[south oar]

Don't forget mania. AI's can experience such.

[wary lodge]

Also, technically, the W'rkncacnter
(Although I guess that's more prisoner than slave)

[visual lynx]

a spht bio weapon used against the pfhor, which was originally planned to have turned them into fungal zombies (which concept was later recycled into the flood).

that puking scene happens in 2812, a year after the free spht rebellion begins, which makes me think that they attacked tau ceti for some reason.

[visual lynx]

yup that’s the positive high-energy jzealous stage

[wary lodge]

Related to that weird mushroom we see a runner step on in the very first reveal trailer?

[sturdy abyss]

The revolution happened in Marathon or Marathon 2?

[visual lynx]

Marathon 2, which is set in 2811

[sturdy abyss]

When is Marathon 1 set in then?

[visual lynx]

2794

we do free one ship full of spht in m1, who henceforth work with durandal, but it’s not until the end of m2 that a full independent revolution by the spht themselves against the pfhor takes off.

[sturdy abyss]

Fungal zombies…
😳 THE LAST OF US

[sturdy abyss]

Do we know what symptoms this Bio-Weapon causes?

[visual lynx]

it’s a common concept because it’s a real thing in actual biology. fungi zombify crabs and such irl.

[visual lynx]

in the released game it just “kills pfhor”, no further details.

[sturdy abyss]

Yes, Fungi are smth disturbing if you’re an insect like, imagine this
one spore lands in your body
you’re dead

[sturdy abyss]

It only kills Pfhor or it can hurt other organic living beings?

[visual lynx]

it doesn’t seem to affect humans or flickta in m2, but since it’s a bio-weapon they could presumably make a variation that targets humans etc instead of pfhor

[sturdy abyss]

If the S’pht actually synthesized a version that attacks humans then we need to know:
Why would they do that?

And why would they attack Tau Ceti IV?

[turbid nebula]

If Jjaro were at Tau Ceti, religious reasons?

[sturdy abyss]

Blackbird’s eye is naturally red or it only gets red when she uses her echo pulse?

[visual lynx]

that is the question! it’s entirely possible that they hold no particular sympathies to humanity in this timeline and just saw us as hostile aliens.

[visual lynx]

the sphtkr in m2 were totally willing to turn on you if one stray bullet hit one of them

[vestal onyx]

tfw they hate you and are just waiting for an excuse 😔

[unreal quiver]

Wow, I just wanted to thank you for posting this link, have been watching these videos and they are amazing. Never expected that there is a whole series of videos out there going this much into depth on the topic!

[drifting plaza]

Happy to help!

[hasty rain]

Are we getting the "Jjaro are ancient humans" in this timeline you think?

[visual lynx]

somehow I doubt it but it would be a cool twist to throw into the pfhor-spht war.

[south oar]

I mean slavers would love to attack a colony that's full of potential slaves.

[wary lodge]

GOD, I hope not...

[turbid nebula]

I hope so...

[sturdy abyss]

S’pht are slavers too?

[icy crest]

https://tenor.com/view/sgt-johnson-halo3-halo-343-343guilty-spark-gif-20915991

Embed fail everyone point and laugh

[deep niche]

Bruh it was you

[plucky sierra]

🫵 😂

[deep niche]

🫵😂

[icy crest]

🫵 😂

[sturdy abyss]

Shoot him out of the airlock Tycho

[visual lynx]

not the pfhor, the spht

[plucky sierra]

send him to Hanger 96

[arctic owl]

The “humans had an advanced civilization millions of years ago that got wiped out and we had to start over” idea really irks me for some reason, just the way it makes no sense in terms of evolution. I understand it’s a somewhat common sci-fi idea and I should just accept it so I can enjoy the story. But it’s a pet peeve of mine and so is, by definition, irrational of me

Anyway: I really wouldn’t want them to do that again. Because of the pet peeve

You wanna say the Jjaro are humans from the distant future who traveled back in time and did a lot of really complicated stuff solely so they could meet Bill Clinton, now we got us a story

[visual lynx]

that’s why I invoked time travel to implement it in Eternal

though it has since struck me that if it’s very low millions some close relatives of anatomically modern humans would have been around.

and if it’s just 100,000 years like in Halo then that’s within the timespan of anatomically modern humans.

[south oar]

Was half asleepy, sorry

[arctic owl]

I stopped playing Halo after Reach; what eventually turned out to be the story with humans being Forerunners? Were Earth-humans building Halos 100,000 years ago? I’ve skimmed Halopedia articles in the past, but the info didn’t stick

If it would be a lot to write out, I’ll just give Halopedia another shot

[turbid nebula]

It got walked back and the forerunners are a separate species and some of them just thought humans were cool

[visual lynx]

what I’ve heard from others who have played them and read the books etc is that both Forerunners and Humans were created by Precursors from the same genetic template but on different planets, and Humans were the intended heirs of the Precursors but the Forerunners usurped it. Humans did have a huge spacefaring empire back in the day though and fought a war against the Forerunners who set humanity back to the stone age.

so it’s the worst of all worlds!

[turbid nebula]

It's forerunners all the way down

[south oar]

Once you're cursed with Marathon's logo you'll see that symbol everywhere.

[visual lynx]

every search icon…

[cinder lance]

now what if humans were made by the "Jjaro" aka post Jjaro proto s'pht or holograms or a blend, given timeline dates. Human: Tastes like Jjaro, isn't.

that's my halo plot in 5 words - " Human, tastes like forerunner; isn't"

[snow heath]

ASSERT

[cinder lance]

[polar stone]

Still wanna know why his head exploded.

[honest zinc]

Me to

[polar stone]

It looks like something escaped.

[honest zinc]

For real

[dire estuary]

“Marathon is a game”

[lucid sun]

Did his head explode or did reality change around him?

[polar stone]

We don't know but it's neat.

[terse steppe]

No doubt the Pfhor are behind it, likely some bioengineered weapon of some sort

They use advanced alien technology so its something well within their means

[visual lynx]

I doubt the Pfhor are behind that. I expect that the three disasters we see in that trailer are due to Pfhor, Spht, and Jjaro respectively. so the head-exploding is due to Jjaro tech negative space wedgie. The puking is probably a bio weapon, I’m guessing the sctlctr, from the Spht. And of course the attack on Marathon was the Pfhor.

[novel bone]

Would be really cool if it gets to a point where there's 3 NPC factions (Pfhor, Spht and UESC) + your for-profit sponsors. But I really doubt the engine can handle multi-faction encounters, much less offline combat.

[prime rose]

Destiny features encounters between NPC factions in its patrol zones

[vestal onyx]

it's actually an alien growing out of him, you gotta slow the video down

[polar stone]

Horrifying.

[vestal onyx]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/646114358711156756/1438709093375152289/explosion.mp4?ex=6917ddc1&is=69168c41&hm=3158e435c044d84815d3b1d1b7c9739802fbcc936e2417d203668e1b4355c2b0&

[harsh topaz]

https://youtu.be/bOdCqKxS1Oo Marathon at 33:50

[plucky sierra]

It’s not

[vestal onyx]

It's pulsating, it's alive

100% some kind of organism

[vestal onyx]

look how it expands

[prime rose]

that's a very definitive declaration for something about which you have almost no context and no information

[vestal onyx]

It was revealed to me in a dream

[novel bone]

I know, but I have gotten so used to multiple studios saying that trying to replicate something that was staple of multiple other franchises before, is a nightmare in modern software and is not something they plan to implement. Hoping Marathon delivers this, somehow, hopefully
.

[hearty cairn]

looks like a balloon, or fabric

[hearty cairn]

on another slo-mo look there are colours and patterns that look very much like the Enforcers clothing

[vestal onyx]

the thing that grabs my eye is the cyan fleshy bit rapidly expanding in size

[sturdy abyss]

What musical instruments do you guys think the Runners would play?

I personally go with:
Glitch: drums
Locus: Accoustic guitar
Void: Piano
Blackbird: Violin

[dark sage]

trumpet

[visual lynx]

somebody had better play the Roland General MIDI Sound Sample Set for that authentic Marathon feel

[next gale]

surely glitch plays the keytar

[sturdy abyss]

Also a great choice

[hearty cairn]

moog synth. banjo for that HHGTTG feel

[dark sage]

Traxus - Through colonization, there is liberation.
MIDA - The way to freedom is by silence.
Sekiguchi - The cycle of life is through re-creation.
UESC - To create unity, there must be security.
Nu Caloric - Create food without the food

CyberAcme - Without code, there is no hope

[clever hull]

anyone know any docs or good videos on new marathon lore from 2 ARG bungie did?

[plucky sierra]

What kind are you looking for?

[flint flax]

Jakethealright has a couple videos about it, I'm in the middle of the complete arg analysis one

[dire estuary]

Pretty sure MIDA is the opposite of silent😅

[slate elk]

Do you think the shells actually cost "a trillion bucks"?

[lucid sun]

more like "The way to freedom is resistance"

[dire estuary]

[insert anarchist slogans]

theyre basically a Martian paramilitary, that wants total separation with no unified government from the UESC, by any means necessary.

Theyre basically space-terrorists

[lucid sun]

yep yep

[dire estuary]

Pretty funny how the new fans will see MIDA as generic underdogs in sci-fi trope, but they were made to basically be space ISIS

[lucid sun]

i honestly got that vibe and i'm new to the marathon universe

[dire estuary]

Theyre interchangeable with the Insurrectionists from Halo. You can not defend either of the 2s actions at all.

The Insurrectionists from Halo, had on many occasions totally reduced civilian populated spaces with nuclear weapons, willing to hold civilians hostage, use guerilla tactics in urban warfare as a paramilitary with the intent to cause as much chaos as possible, and to smuggle illegal technology and drugs

So when I watched the Halo show’s interpretation…I cringed. The moment I saw the first minute, it was over, never watched more

[prime rose]

well, no, not really - even in the original trilogy the depiction of MIDA has little to no parallel to ISIS or Al'Qaeda, a better comparison would be something like the IRA and even then that's a stretch because planetary independence and Irish independence, while having some parallels, are separated by a gulf of difference and one is fiction

also, you should keep in mind that basically all information about MIDA in the original trilogy is presented from the position of the people they fought a small war against, who have every incentive to depict them in the least flattering light, as the victors have done throughout history regardless of why anyone was actually fighting

[prime rose]

while Silent Storm makes it pretty clear that the Insurrectionists were willing to go to some messed up lengths to fight the UNSC (they were willing to give the Covenant Earth's location) I think the innies would respond to that with "The UNSC military government had on many occasions kidnapped children to experiment on, variously maim and kill, and turn into a black ops hit squad to assassinate political dissidents"

[prime rose]

MIDA wanted variously Martian independence, a Martian government ruled by Martians instead of the UESC and Earth corporations, and the resources being expended on colonization to go to addressing famine and scarcity on Mars

They weren't anti-government - they notoriously formed their own government during a brief interregnum following their coup, before being defeated by UESC loyalists.

Traxus and the UESC granted MIDA moderates a seat at the table in Martian government, probably prosecuted the extremists, and then went on with their business

New MIDA is something else, it is not an organized or coherent organization, it's more an ideology or movement like Anonymous is today - there's no one group or boss or even unified ideology, just some common themes

 
The cycle commands our attention. The cycle becomes our existence. Our every moment is bought/paid/leased/sold. We consume products so we never realize we are products. THE product. Corp/god/faith built the cage. Created the wheel. Set it spinning. Then, they placed us/you/me/we/them inside. We are its momentum -- the wheel's, the cycle's, society's, this life's. We -- them/we/me/you/us are the power. We just don't realize. Too comfortable. Too driven. To protect that comfort -- ours, yours -- I/me/mine. To consume. Divide. Conquer. Supply. Demand. We are the supply. We make the demands -- of ourselves/of each other.
 
The people hate the people. Are made to hate the people. But we are not the problem. We are not the enemy. We are the spokes. We are the core. We are the foundation. Without us there's no movement. Without us -- miner to fore, crafter to coder, janitor to ceo -- the cycle stops. The cage is broken, the system crumbles and we are free. Could we risk our comfort for that? Could we break our cage to spin free in directions unknown, toward futures uncertain? Could we trade this wheel for one of our own design? Or is this cycle enough? This/cage our prize?
 
Is this life our end -- the totality of our being? The apex of our potential? No/there is more. But we must work together. Forever spokes. Forever forward. Together. Toward better tomorrows. For everyone.```

[dark sage]

That's dark lol

[prime rose]

that’s the master chief baby

child soldier science experiment by the halo equivalent of the CIA created for the purpose of hunting and killing secessionists

[polar stone]

One of my friends on destiny is called MIDA My Multitool.

[dire estuary]

The innies were responding to the outer colonies lacking UNSC support and care, hence for the reason they wanted outer colony independence. The UNSC, still did own these colonies legally, it was written law. Also, people on the outer colonies used the lack of eyes as a way to distribute whatever and do whatever they wanted to do. The insurrectionists were by all means, NOT the good guys. The spartan program was made in fact, to combat them efficiently

[lucid sun]

so similar parallels amongst halo and marathon?

[lucid sun]

this makes me think of the expanse

[plucky sierra]

Does he know?

[lucid sun]

?

[sick heart]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

On test le jeu quand ?

[plucky sierra]

I was referencing the meme. Halo 1 and marathon have strong parallels because early in Halo 1s development it was going to be Marathon 4

[lucid sun]

Cool didn't know that

[languid hawk]

Yoah

[prime rose]

My response to this would be to say that this is the same argument every empire in history has made when the people outside the imperial core want independence

I would say it's a bit reductive to paint it in stark black and white when both innies and the UNSC get up to no good in the name of their political goals

similar to the MIDA dynamic and the UESC

The UESC and Traxus are quite happy for martians to starve if it means they get a colony ship that might make them more money - they take no real action to address the grievances of martians until after a bloody coup attempt

[lavish palm]

are u just taking to the face surface level or is this real

AFAIK the outer colonies were getting fucked by covenant and disappearing, large reason to revolt especially if they arent keeping u safe anyways

[prime rose]

there's also not 1 single insurrection movement in Halo - there are many, with varying ideologies, goals, and methods

[lavish palm]

true we gotta remember that outer colonies really are on the edge and exist on opposite sides of the inner colonies

[prime rose]

Yeah "we don't want to be ruled by and pay taxes to a planet lightyears away which we've never known, will never know, and which does not address our needs" is a story as old as human civilization

[turbid nebula]

MIDA taking things over and making things significantly worse causing the UESC to improve a bit does not make MIDA good guys suddenly.

[rotund stump]

bfr there are no good guys in this story 😭

[frozen galleon]

Durandal and the marine are good guys but they're in a different star system

[prime rose]

my point is that UESC policy was actively harmful to martians, and to many martians, MIDA were quite likely the good guys. Similarly, to others, like the ones on the receiving end of the death squads hunting UESC collaborators, the UESC were probably the good guys. It's not simple black and white and rarely is in any comparable historical example.

If someone is starving you and your family is going to die because of choices that someone made, how far are you willing to go to save your family? Can you fight the interplanetary hegemony and save them and emerge on the other side with clean hands? Probably not

[prime rose]

i suspect a whole lot of people on the Marathon, on Tau Ceti, and in Sol would have major issues with the assertion that Durandal is a good guy

[high urchin]

Protagonist or Antagonist, Durandal was THE central character of the Marathon games. But I guess he'll be completely absent from NuMarathon.

[prime rose]

why would you think that? he's already referenced in the ARG and there's a certain voiceover we've all heard which is quite likely Durandal

(agree that he is the central character)

[heavy cave]

been reading thru this and wow it is cool. my contribution to this discussion is that I find it very cool and sick

[wide prism]

Guys, I don't really understand how to get to the playtest?

[broken zinc]

You have to be able to see the channel #🐛playtest_access if it's not on your channel list you'll have to add it

Then you just type /playtest as a command and it'll send you a sign up link

[verbal gull]

/playtest

[hearty cairn]

in the #🐛playtest_access channel

[modern nymph]

Quick lore question. So in posters and stuff we see what looks like the UESC marathon. But from the original trilogy didn’t Durandal inform us the pfhor came again and destroy the colony along with the ship?

So I’m assuming this marathon ship we see in orbit is a different one?

But then I heard no more crist ships were built?

[plucky sierra]

Durandal saying the colony was nuked seems to have been retconed because the colony and Marathon ship are confirmed to still exist

[broken zinc]

Maybe durandal was :gasp: lying

On a less joking note, i could have sworn the pfor went and stole the colonists and left the marathon abandoned? I don't remember them specifically nuking/destroying the place, just cause it to be deserted

Like they were put into slavery or whatever

[plucky sierra]

In M2 Durandal tells us the Pfhor returned and nuked the colony to bedrock and took Leela to sell, she got stolen by the Nar and crashed their FTL net

[broken zinc]

Hmm

[plucky sierra]

While Tau Ceti was being nuked down to bedrock in 2794, Pfhor scientists disassembled and removed the AI Leela from the Marathon, loading her aboard a vessel bound for the Pfhor homeworld. But the ship fell into the hands of a Nar privateer between jumps at Beta Naxos, and was never seen by the Pfhor again.

Thinking the cargo little more than scrap, the Nar captain sold the Pfhor ship, Leela and all, to a Vylae merchant. The subsequent crash of the Vylae FTL network when Leela was reassembled and reactivated is still legendary in the annals of rampancy, and the Vylae have long since accepted that they will never expunge her from their fifteen-world network.

Despite having lost Leela, the Pfhor learned much from Tycho during the seventeen years before he was destroyed by Durandal in the Lh'owon system.  All late-model Pfhor personality constructs were based on sixty-four billion exobyte images of Tycho's core, taken during the years he was on the Pfhor homeworld between 2795 and 2801 AD.

actually it is the Epilogue, not Durandal

[broken zinc]

Oh interesting

Looks like uesc Marathon was "destroyed" as in inoperable and it just hangs out in orbit being derelict

And perhaps the real fate of tau ceti iv will be revealed over the course of the new Marathon game

[visual lynx]

we seem to be in a different timeline

[frozen galleon]

But as we know, multiple timelines are possible in this universe

[cinder lance]

yeah, current timeline has pink cat. Obviously we are in the blessed timeline.

[blazing palm]

We do see bombs hitting the colony in the cinematic. Also hitting the marathon. So yes, "destroyed." It seems like they're sticking pretty close to canon, but obviously some things structurally survived the bombing.

[plucky sierra]

The “bombs” we see are on the day of the first attack, not a second return months later so it’s more likely that is the Pfhor attack if it is anything alien related

[blazing palm]

So I suppose they’re just retconning the “nuking to bedrock”?

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re in the final Infinity timeline, which is very different from the M2 timeline in some ways, and unknown in lots of others, so many things from M2 may not have happened, but similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some small mistakes in their promotional material (like the date of the attack).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped, Blake and co never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon still happened in 2811, which probably has something to do with whatever befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor alone ever since, and might have still toppled their empire even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take: rebel slaves… or potential customers (as biomata would be game-changing for the slave trade).

[blazing palm]

Do you guys know about the S’pht plague that hit right before they were enslaved by the Pfhor? It seems PRETTY similar to all this talk of a super-biological virus from what I played in the April alpha.

[visual lynx]

that’s the S’ct’lac’tr I just mentioned

[blazing palm]

Ahh yeah ok, I just heard about it in passing and thought it was pretty interesting. Very few lore videos or theorizing videos even touch it interestingly.

[visual lynx]

the S’pht deployed it to fight the Pfhor, and it’s still around in underground chambers on Lh’owon in 2811 allowing Durandal’s Bobs to take refuge from the Pfhor down there

[blazing palm]

I saw a YouTube video insisting they saw an achievement for “kill 10 compilers” when they went to bungie last year. Seems like a sure thing that they’ll be in the game very soon after launch. I’m assuming on the marathon.

[prime rose]

the ARG has video footage of a compiler recorded by a security terminal somewhere on the colony

[zealous badge]

What’s stopping any of the AIs from uploading themselves into bodies?

[next gale]

is there lore on the factions¿

[plush python]

There totally is. Check out the YT channel Jake the Alright. He goes into DEEP DETAIL, mostly based on the ARG from last year. Really cool stuff.

[next gale]

@neon root

[opal horizon]

Totally uneducated guess, size requirements

[prime rose]

the ARG mentions some kind of DNA security mechanism for clone shells iirc to ensure they only work for the designated operator

[stiff hedge]

If there were no women on Marathon (excluding Leela she is AI) what do you think about BOB's reproduction? We know that they were BORN on board but how is it possible?

[fallen hollow]

Everything we know so far can be found in the archive.
https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/intercepts/traxus/index

[fallen hollow]

Once more lore is available to the public, you'll be able to find it in the archive.

[visual lynx]

there were women on the Marathon, we just never saw them because Martians (and therefore Bobs) are very traditional and no levels take place in the kitchen

[stiff hedge]

Nah I don’t think so

Maybe all women are on Tau Ceti

[little jay]

There’s women on Tau Ceti?!

[stiff hedge]

Just a theory

[little jay]

A life changing one

[cinder lance]

TC4 needs women

[visual lynx]

oh shit… Mars needs women… Bobs are from Mars…. coincidence?!?! I think NOT!!!

[rotund stump]

women!?

[dense kite]

Is this a legit lore summary for Marathon: https://marathon.bungie.org/story/ben_reiter_synopsis.html

[plucky sierra]

anything from marathon.bungie.org is legit

[dense kite]

Thank you

[plucky sierra]

It is legit, but it is still an unofficial summary so don't take it as "word of god" and you should play the OG games

[prime rose]

yes as others mentioned - but remember the caveat that while the original games are ostensibly canon to new marathon, not everything that happens in them is true

[arctic owl]

What’s stopping any of the AIs from uploading themselves into Gundams? That’s the question we all need to be asking

Imagine the doors Durandal could open if he were piloting a Gundam. Huge doors, hugest you’ve ever seen

[prime rose]

someone else can probably correct me or provide the citation but IIRC Durandal also mentions something about it being beneath him to pilot the security officer around like a meat gundam

I think the UESC security bots are autonomous though so those could in theory be remote operated by an AI system

[rotund stump]

iirc in the arg shells are mentioned to have a bio verification system to prevent rogue AIs to just throw themselves in a shell and go on the run

[stiff hedge]

why do corps need people to do this?

[prime rose]

also if a rampant ai gets loose in a useful UESC/human system, control of a single human body is the least of anyone's problems

[stiff hedge]

isn't it cheaper to build an AI that can control hundreds of runners?

[rotund stump]

massive ticking time bomb for the corps when the AI eventually goes rogue

that and we're still unsure if it's an actual human consciousness pulled from a bio for every runner or if it's a template of one duplicated across everybody

and I don't think AIs would do nearly as good of a job as runners as is lol

[rotund stump]

but if it is the second then it does kinda fit what you're asking

[stiff hedge]

big corps are actually using brain in this universe

[rotund stump]

whowouldathunkit

[turbid nebula]

AI definitely don't seem to be fit for doing much other than thinking and talking, or else Durandal would have just spent some time building or hijacking some drones instead of manipulating living beings

[fallen hollow]

They aren't compatible with biomata.

[fallen hollow]

This is the doctrine that the UESC is using. Their drones are able to be widely deployed, but aren't as effective as Runners in combat.

[arctic owl]

Are Gundams biomata? I never actually got into that whole universe. I’m talking (jokingly) about Durandal just getting into a really huge robot capable of housing enough robo-brain material to contain his intelligence

Honestly I think having a regular spaceship for a body is probably all Durandal wants, or envisions himself as. It’s likely not interesting at all for an AI in the Marathon universe to have a frail, walking-around-on-a-planet body. Same as being in a cat or octopus body, like why constrain himself like that. He’s beyond that sort of thing

[fallen hollow]

Durandal would never put himself in such a prison.

[arctic owl]

He basically just got out of one! Of course he wouldn’t

I feel like no one’s appreciating my unrealistic and stupid vision of Durandal piloting an enormous mech and stomping on the entire colony or something. Perhaps I should never have riffed on that guy asking why Big D couldn’t just download into a runner

On the other hand, better to have riffed and whiffed than to never have riffed at all

[stiff hedge]

He can simply use an orbital bombardment for what reasons he will put himself into a mecha?

I understand this looks cool, but he has bombs and bobs to fight

[arctic owl]

I’m gonna lose my mind if one more person takes my joke seriously

And I’m already Gherrit White, so we’re talking total breakdown here

I DON’T THINK DURANDAL WANTS OR WOULD BENEFIT IN ANY WAY FROM OCCUPYING A MECHA/GUNDAM

[prime rose]

the UESC has autonomous humanoid combat platforms in the form of the droids we fight in-game, but I imagine they have any number of laws against putting a full suite AI which could potentially experience rampancy in direct control of a small army

They rely quite heavily on AI - we are told in the ARG that the HyBrasil arcology for example has used an AI of the same classification as Durandal to run the entire arcology for decades with no issues, but even in that scenario that AI is probably silo'd off from certain systems or decisions

remember that AI rampancy is a real and known threat which they take major measures to account for and prevent

[prime rose]

This part is all iffy and up in the air due to game design changes etc obviously but generally biomata are I believe intended to be actual individuals. The idea that SekGen is able to transfer your self with continuity is a key part of their marketing and tech leg up on the clone competition. The ARG references security mechanisms to ensure that generally only the designated operator of a clone is able to perform a neural transfer into a given body

and Traxus employs normal human laborers who operate clones during their work shifts in hazardous environments

(remember the ARG uses clone interchangeably with these synth bodies and suggests they utilize DNA or genetic code from the intended operator as well although it does not elaborate on this, or to what degree different biomata grades from SekGen might be bespoke or not)

There are also lots of questions about why they do or don't do any given thing as a society possessing such advanced technology but its important to remember that the setting is full of Sol's various factions pushing legal/political solutions and arms control, ie cyborgs were/are still regulated by interspace treaty law

or even the fact that all biomata and other clones from other companies are generally produced to survive at earth standard atmosphere, because ages ago someone passed a law mandating earth standard atmosphere for all orbitals in Sol system

could they make one that can survive hard vacuum for a period of time? probably! they just don't, because they live in a society with laws and regulatory boards just like IRL

[hasty rain]

I've always thought it works as in real life when an actor sells their likeness and voice to be used in perpetuity for AI reproductions.

So these human soldiers and operators sold their personalities to the various factions to be used, copied and reproduced as they feel like, with maybe say, 5% of profits returning to the original operator.

This is why something like what seems to happen in the short happens, two instances of the same personality seems to be working in opposite sides of a conflict

[prime rose]

there is nothing at all in any canon material to indicate that's how any synthetic humanoid or consciousness tech works in Marathon

[merry charm]

nu cola rick

[arctic owl]

If that were the case, if someone could essentially sell a clone of themselves rather than… themselves, you’d have to make that clone think it was the original

Otherwise the idea of the runners needing to pay off the cost of their lil’ cyberbodies doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I guess a clone, even if it knew it was a clone, would want to survive. But personally I’d be like “What do you mean I gotta pay off this thing my original bought? I got nothing to do with this. F you I won’t do what ya told me,” etc

“Keep me in the computer or shut me off, I ain’t goin’ out there, idgaf”

I guess what we see in the short could be “checking that the clone still thinks it’s the original,” actually, or that it hasn’t degraded to the point it just needs to get click-dragged to the virtual trash can

… I started off intending to counter Eat the Path’s idea but I think I just talked myself into believing it

Part of the horror of the storyline could be “Wait I’m just a clone? I’m not real? Am I real? What does ‘real’ mean and also oh crap I’m never actually paying off this body and getting to quit, am I?”

[prime rose]

its still possible that there is some strangeness going on with the runners at TCIV specifically

[hasty rain]

I think yeah, it's something like that, extremely unethical to the copies, but neither the corporations nor the original humans care.

The text that says that the pink cat is starting to get smarter than it was as a real cat leads me to believe that part of the story may involve the runners eventually rebelling against the corpos or something and try to 'ascend', probably prompted or with the help of any remaining planetary AI (or a copy of Durandal in the ship) and the rumored Jjaro artifacts

[frigid fulcrum]

i played the original trillogy a few years back, and i remember some lore i think from M2 that there was a really violent war between two asteroid belt city states using mjolnr recon-like reanimated corpse soldiers until it got out of hand
does anyone involved in the ARG thing for this game know if that is at all related?

[frigid fulcrum]

i always thought MIDA was supposed to be like
space illuminati

[visual lynx]

that was from M1, Icarus and Thermopylae

[prime rose]

the asteroid war led to interplanetary laws on the production/use/storage of battleroids, an early form of cyborg technology, because they were functionally weapons of mass destruction (see: the security officer in Marathon laying waste to armies of aliens)

cyborg technology has advanced and cyborgs now exist in Sol outside of military applications, but cyborgs/battleroids are not the same as biomata/clones from Sekiguchi Genetics we play as. SekGen's biomata are bespoke, constructed ground up from a molecular level, integrating organic and synthetic components seamlessly to make a transhuman cybernetic body that can be occupied by a digitized human mind via neural sync

When the UESC gets the distress call from Tau Ceti that prompts them to initiate Project Goliath and launch the UESC Equanimity on an 8+ decade journey to Tau Ceti, they deliberately send biomata and not cyborgs, because when the Marathon left Sol, cyborgs only existed as humanoid WMDs and the colonists would likely perceive them as a military invasion

or, at least we assume they are digitized, I suppose it is possible everyone piloting an S-series could have their brain in a jar somewhere wired into a sensory system but that seems not likely

I'm guessing they are fully digital because we still don't know how they developed FTL travel to get to TCIV faster, or what that FTL travel actually is, only that its easier for them to do FTL data transfer than it is to move organic matter

for example, if a bunch of runners saw the Equanimity leave Sol and wanted to claim jump Tau Ceti, sticking digital minds in a ship running catalyzed antimatter drives like the Equanimity instead of fragile meat would allow them to accelerate at much greater speeds than Equanimity, and decelerate much faster

[tribal narwhal]

what happened to the cyborg inthe origianl trilogy after marathon infinity

[frigid fulcrum]

||Becomes a literal god and according to durandal, lives to see the heat death of the universe||

[visual lynx]

the marathon universe doesn’t have a heat death it has a big crunch

[fallen hollow]

You were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You are destiny.

He likely becomes a being of pure thought which is meant to manifest the player's omnipotence. He exists outside the collapse of the universe.

[lavish palm]

in the manual its discussed as if mr54 is a person with his own experience/consciousness, and grew up on mars, had a father etc. is there any reason to believe that maybe mr54 is just the body that the player controls? like a runner/shell relationship?

[fallen hollow]

No.

[marble cedar]

Marathon

[tribal narwhal]

i miss lohwon

and the spth, and the phfore]

dose the uesc know that sekiguchi is using the runners againt them

[tribal narwhal]

if they do cant they just destroy the runner production facility on tau ceti

[upper lantern]

Will marathon have lore and story baked into gameplay?

[rotund stump]

uesc signed a peace deal with every major corp way back and nobody messes with one another's stuff

but as vulcan said from the traxus intro you're not eligible for any employee bonuses or benefits implying they're keeping some pretty gray ties with you

to put it in another way you're a semi-free merc sent to tc4 to scavenge for the corps, to the uesc you're treated as such and not corpo property

[tribal narwhal]

ohhhh ok

wait i still dont get why the uesc bots attack us

[tribal narwhal]

happy ending

[hasty rain]

Everybody wants to be the only ones or at least the first ones to get their grubby paws on unknown, powerful alien tech

[prime rose]

yes but they cant really do anything about it in Sol

on TCIV its all deniable

everybody keeps everything just deniable enough to avoid provoking anything more significant than legal disputes back home

first person to figure out like a new pharmaceutical based on exotic alien biochemistry or something makes a batrillion dollars

[tribal narwhal]

ahhhhhh ok

[pallid scarab]

[tribal narwhal]

anyone know that the pthia were, were they a sub race of jjaro,and what is sabuth i lener undersood wht he was imn marathon infinity

[visual lynx]

pthia is a mystery, but sbhuth is the royalty of sphtkr, appointed with the other royalty by yrro when he departed, and word of god is that such royalty are “failed jjaro”. it seems like spht always have some entity at the center of their collectives: first yrro, then their royalty, then pfhor controller cyborgs like the one we kill in m1, then durandal takes that place…

[vestal onyx]

I got the vibe of pthia being a sort of guiding intelligence for the jjaro

not a race but more of an entity

[tribal narwhal]

btw dont u guys think that the controler cyborg was a bot too small and like i want even guarded proprly , i used think i was something like the juggernut when i first saw its sprite (i thought i was a hue statinary enemy with lazers or something)

[cinder lance]

As far as I understand, these details are explained by plot / mission revisions as they were making the game. Things were repurposed and squished together, the final pfhor ship invading act was originally longer and they condensed it.

I think this is where I saw it.
https://marathon.bungie.org/story/pfhoregg.html

[marble cedar]

Marathon

[tribal narwhal]

thx

[tribal narwhal]

wait that thing was an egg?

[visual lynx]

the controller cyborg wasn’t an egg, but there is an egg scenery item

[tribal narwhal]

yeah i know that

[cinder lance]

MIDA is a pfhor liberation front

[dark sage]

Ain't that obvious

or was there something I missed?

I have another question.

Is the sekgen worm worshipping canon?

[cinder lance]

no but probably yes

[visual lynx]

MIDA would side with the Spht rebellion.

Traxus would try to position themselves as a trading partner with the Pfhor.

[cinder lance]

hence multiple factions, we can position ourselves as a netrunner wherever it fills the wallet best

[arctic owl]

I like to think John Marathon survives the Big Crunch and becomes Galactus in the next universe. Don’t give me any guff about what we may know about Galactus’s life in his previous life, this is my truth

I’m actually not clear is John is literally the same guy, like the same body, throughout all of human history, or more a soul that reincarnates as his previous body dies of old age, but either way, living for billions of years until the end of the universe seems like it would really suck

[lethal comet]

john marathon is paraplegic

[marble cedar]

Marathon

[rose beacon]

@next gale iphone 🔥

[next gale]

Yes

[fallen hollow]

The entity was meant to represent a connection that was lost between the Jjaro and their S'pht servants
https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon-2/citadel/the-hard-stuff-rules

[novel fulcrum]

does v2 ultrakill clear og marathon lore?

[novel fulcrum]

v2 is shooting

[stiff hedge]

who is stronger: John Marathon or John Halo?

[opaque oak]

If you powerscale in the most annoying way possible, john marathon, given hes somehow immune to entropy with him outliving the universe

Then again i dont really know shit about john halo if im being honest

[soft girder]

We don't have a whole lot of info on what kind of "gear" our cyborg there has beyond the guns and that he's quite strong / durable (and that just from a blip about him punching a dent in a console or something) AFAIK.

So I'd have to go with John Halo. Spartan IIs can run freakishly fast. Like, catching up with a boosting Ghost, at least the quickest of them. MJOLNIR armor has been tested by firing ATG missiles and miniguns at it and that was before they bothered putting shields in. Just based on most of the art the Marathon cyborg gets, I doubt they were imagined to have that kind of "power suit" thing going on. Probably pretty similar to a Spartan without one tbh.

[prime rose]

explicitly limited to the capabilities and arms depicted in the games, i think john halo wins

john marathon wins if he is allowed access to the full repertoire of UESC technology like pattern buffers, teleportation etc

[visual lynx]

I dunno that punching the console really indicates superhuman strength. I have a sad history of banging my fist on nearby surfaces in frustration and destroying them, and I’m not any sort of undead cyborg super-soldier. (Or am I? If I was, would I know?)

[plucky sierra]

Denting metal surely is though no?

[visual lynx]

depends on the metal, I’ve dented plenty

[plucky sierra]

True

Presumably spacecraft metal would be rather strong, but maybe not for consoles, what about punching an alien so hard it dies?

[marble cedar]

Marathon

[haughty comet]

Marathon

[soft girder]

Marathon

[stiff hedge]

mathron '

[cinder lance]

I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use Caps Lock as my 'run' key, and to never, ever, leave a single Bob alive.

I'm a little depressed as of yet there are no reports of switch-knifing in nu Marathon

[bright thistle]

I love the lore of Marathon !

[rose beacon]

please spell it right

[rotund stump]

what part of marathon did he not spell right lol

[stiff hedge]

Isn’t the game’s name marton or mathon?

[tribal narwhal]

as much as i love halo its definitely marathon john

[tribal narwhal]

bob killer

i tried to save every bob in marathon the rose

[tribal narwhal]

total carnage?

i couldnt even beat arrival in that difficulty

ALL SWITCHES!........ONNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[dire halo]

This game is going to be amazing

[cinder lance]

[fervent minnow]

[inland walrus]

[plucky sierra]

[pliant raft]

[broken zinc]

Everybody in the house so come on lets ride

[stiff hedge]

Is it true that Rasputin met Durandal and they were "friends"?

I know it's more destiny lore but maybe somebody know

[deep niche]

tetra go to sleep king

holy shit im lost

this aint gen chat

[plucky sierra]

Nothing in destiny lore

I doubt they would be since Rasputin is very benevolent and protective of humanity while Durandal uses them as a means to his end

[tribal narwhal]

wait what?

[stiff hedge]

idk, I heard that something similar to this was written in one of d1 lore books about Rasputin. He used Elsie's technology to walk through timelines and met Durandal. Sounds like something that could happen and also sounds like weird fanfic at the same time

I am not a destiny lore master and this easily can be a lie

[plucky sierra]

Elsie doesn’t exactly timeline hop like that nor is it at will iirc. Its more of a time loop situation than timelines

[stiff hedge]

thanks for explaining

[plucky sierra]

Elsie's Dark future is one of my favorite lore books, basically she relives different loops where everything goes wrong, originally it was the black heart which is why she helped in D1 if I remember the most recent reset had to do with the europan pyramid so we are in a uncharted future for her

[tribal narwhal]

damn may be true

[hasty rain]

He called Durandal his cousin. It's from this old lore fragment, and it's just a nod to the Marathon lore.

There is also the MIDA Multitool, which ended up in the Destiny universe when a MIDA operative in Mars somehow hopped dimensions.

It's all kinda tongue in cheek, not meant to be canon or anything serious, just as much as you want it to be

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-rasputin-4

[stiff hedge]

thank you!

[dire estuary]

Being a vidmaster is not for the faint of heart

Technically for the first game, the only rule for vidmaster is to just never use a save station on a level, and to just get to the end when you make a new game start on a level

For 2/Infinity, all the Vidmaster oaths apply.
-punch all switches (where applicable)
-never shoot when you could use grenades
-never save
-play on total carnage
-new game starts on all levels
-never, EVER, leave a single bob alive

[twilit cedar]

is anyone else hoping the writers lean in hard on the mechanics/emotional trauma of unaccountable cohesive control?

[pulsar summit]

any test emails out yet?

[polar stone]

No, likely to be sent out 3 days prior to test, it's currently 4.

[bright thistle]

100% agree

[celest goblet]

You know, I have a fascination with Artificial Intelligence breaking down into something unpredicted, or perhaps predictably.

[arctic owl]

Heeeeeeey Adora

[celest goblet]

Oh hi

[tribal narwhal]

do u guys know about the nar

their lore is no fuging funny

[clear creek]

Is it true that the characters in the game are ghosts inhabiting plastic bodies that are being sent out to do mercenary work?

[fierce pecan]

from what i understand the answer is yes think like the show Altered Carbon was the reference point i received

[visual lynx]

that is not inaccurate

[cinder lance]

nar are anthro foot fungus

[cinder lance]

the word you're looking for is "fancy." they're in "fancy" plastic bodies. Designed to withstand explodng, but only so much. Shields exist for that.

[arctic owl]

Is it true that when you get a spam text from someone trying to engage you in conversation, that is also a ghost who’s been forced into indentured servitude

[tribal narwhal]

nar lore is soo goofy cuz their whole planed id fully coverd with 3 story buildings ,they dont have a written languge and after 4 billion years of existin the still use wooden clubs as weapons, oh and theyre space ships are coal powerd as well and they r trying to mesure the diameter of the universe by sending 2 planet sized coal powerd space ships tho the edges of the universe connected by a chain so they can me sure the length if the chain to find the diameter of the univers. even their smartest ideas are stupid

[arctic owl]

I do wonder if, should we ever discover aliens, they just don’t have the same ambition as we do to advance and progress and go to SPACE and invent ALIVE COMPUTERS and LASERGUNS and so on

Just hunter/gatherers living in relative peace for billions of years, we land on their planet and they’re like “Oh. Hey. You came from space? Why? I guess have some berries while you’re here.”

[meager thistle]

Sounds like a group of aliens that made socialism work lol

[plucky sierra]

well socialism does not work because of human nature to compete so in a society with true altruism prevailing it would likely work well/make most sense

[meager thistle]

Interesting take, and I could see where such an idea comes from but to claim humans aren't capable of true altruism is naive

[plucky sierra]

Humans are very capable I am saying it is not the prevailing worldview. Humans often lose true altruism for anyone outside of their direct sphere of influence and there will always be people ready to take advantage/exploit better people.

[meager thistle]

And there will always be people ready to act altruistically.

[plucky sierra]

right, but because it is not prevailing it will tend to fail. if 40% of people are altruistic the 60% can/will take advantage

[meager thistle]

Exploitation is not infinite, it only exists in regards to a resource, whereas altruism is not finite, it is a conscious experience. One will run out. The other does not. [typo lol]

[arctic owl]

I feel like saying socialism could never work because there will always be people out to exploit others, is like saying democracy or capitalism could never work, for the same reason. I don’t think either totally work, for that very reason—I actually lean pretty socialist myself—but I also don’t feel comfortable saying that the US’s system of governance has never “worked.” Because then… what system can be said to have “worked” at all?

[meager thistle]

For the record I'm not a socialist, lmao

[arctic owl]

There are laws in place in the US meant to impede that instinct to exploit and compete, and there ought to be more and they ought to be better enforced. But there’s no reason to think socialism wouldn’t also have those kinds of laws

[meager thistle]

Thats perfectly reasonable... now about the Pfhor...

[arctic owl]

I’m against them, personally

[twilit cedar]

respectfully disagree

[plucky sierra]

ok

[meager thistle]

Shoutout to Leela, best AI 🥺

[stiff hedge]

did you finish m1?

[meager thistle]

Yeah, but I'm re-playing it to read all the terminals more closely

[stiff hedge]

ok 🤫

[arctic owl]

What do we think John Marathon thinks about immigra—I mean, what do we think John Marathon sounds like? Does he even speak at all?

[stiff hedge]

only screamed

[arctic owl]

I Have a Mouth and I Must Only Scream

[digital lichen]

"What do we think John Marathon thinks about impregn..." nevermind

[mild chasm]

The lore were the friends we made along the way.

[twilit cedar]

scenario/context: logistics of the marathon expedition to tau seti

i think it should not matter which economic system is used so long as they are used as tools with robust safe guards rather than as ideologies/cultures.

the marathon expedition would likely create economic dynamics that lends them self to a particular economic models, at curtain scales , at certain phases of construction.

I agree it is not about accomplishing a perfect economic model/system.

I propose that an economic system "works" when it can constantly adapt/evolve while being robustly accountable to the social contracts of the people it serves.

@arctic owl

[blazing palm]

MARTON

[tribal narwhal]

welp yhis a politics channel from now on i gess, guys plz things usually go well when poeple talk about their political opinion

[tribal narwhal]

r you reading the secret terminals as well?

[tribal narwhal]

and said damn and then punched a controll panel accordin to the story part in tne manual

[tribal narwhal]

yeah in marathon 1 she was the best ai, i mean durandal just sent us poens jokes and useless istructions. but durandal is way cooler in m 2 and marathon;infinity

[cinder lance]

me when I mistake you for a control panel

[fallen hollow]

Socialism doesn't depend on altruism.

[fallen hollow]

Marathon is a strong critique of what happens when capitalism reaches its logical conclusion.

[somber hamlet]

That's false, for any system to work properly it requires people of virtue. The benefit to a free market economy is it allows people to retain the fruits of their labor and not be a subject to the state.

Everything is a tradeoff and there are no free lunches a concept that is difficult to understand if you prefer socialism.

Further reading:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.218162/mode/1up

A great show very early 80s:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAC0112857F2D3EAA

[somber hamlet]

Ugh really? Haven't we been subject to enough force fed messages in games the past few years?

[plucky sierra]

At the risk of continuing political discussion (this’ll be my last touch on the topic) every system of government requires altruism if people retain their own will. Some just rely on it less than others

[arctic owl]

It’s crazy how “force-fed messages” in media are always messages you happen to disagree with

And good Lord, I’m not watching a series of videos from Milton Friedman. He and his fellow Chicago School weirdos are like 80% of the reason the US is in the state it’s in right now

[somber hamlet]

Much of the failure is incentive systems not in proper alignment.

[plucky sierra]

While messages can be derived from the original game there’s no “force-feeding” of political agenda. There’s political commentary in the first game sure, mostly in the form of Condemning MIDA terrorism from the perspective of the Authoritarian UESC. Beyond listing historical events and alluding to “shadowy backstabbing politics of sol” most of the politics are just a vehicle to set up the story and not any agenda. The questions the game does ask are more philosophically related to the artificial intelligences and “escape” and eventually the nature of humanity and what the protagonist has become towards the end of infinity

[fallen hollow]

Marathon isn't forcing a perspective. It's a plausible representation of how corporations might act if given the chance in the depths of space.

[somber hamlet]

Did Milton Friedman come up with no cash bail, open borders, runaway regulations and continuing resolutions that have destroyed standard legislative order?

[plucky sierra]

Even in the new game there is no condemnation of capitalism, you can certainly work for the shady megacorp trying to rule humanity just as much as you can work for a death cult or a anarcho-terrorist movement. The political elements in the game once again serve to set the story and expand the world

[fallen hollow]

Governance doesn't work based on altruism. It fundamentally works due to a monopoly on violence. The UESC in Marathon is a great example of this fact.

[plucky sierra]

Ok, political ideas and politics in Marathon are ok, but let’s steer clear of real world political issues as it violates the server rules

[arctic owl]

Oddly enough none of those things are things I consider to be involved in what I dislike about the state of the country

[plucky sierra]

Altruism is necessary if a government is not going to be authoritarian and oppressive hence marathon being all authoritarianism and oppression

[somber hamlet]

TBH I have no idea what the story is, I was just remarking on the comment. It won't stop me from checking out Marathon. I just miss good story writing that uses metaphor instead of just directly saying the thing.

[arctic owl]

What if Friedman was another incarnation of John Marathon, though

[plucky sierra]

The games and the lore is fantastic and definitely worth a play through, lots of philosophical ideas and questions asked that prompt ideas.

[somber hamlet]

Sounds reasonable. Just a little gunshy in this day and age of Sweet Baby Inc.

[fallen hollow]

I suggest you actually read some of the theory if you're interested in the subject. It'll help you understand the other side of the argument, and paint some colour regarding an organisation like MIDA.

[plucky sierra]

Don’t worry the old gamers are slightly outdated, but still fun and the story is excellent, can’t speak to the upcoming one yet but I have high hopes

[somber hamlet]

Are we talking the game or real life? I am fine with checking out the game a few comments on discord won't discourage me. 🙂

In real life there are plenty of examples outside of the theoretical.

[fallen hollow]

From the limited exposure we've already had, I have high hopes for Marathon's story.

[fallen hollow]

The subject remains the same both within the game and in real life. Bungie does their research.

[somber hamlet]

Bungie usually does a good job with story and lore. Hopefully the best bits are hidden in Grimoires. 😂😂😂

[plucky sierra]

If you want hidden lore just look up the Gheritt White Terminal

[upbeat jackal]

My honest thought is that anyone of this persuasion will likely not think Marathon is for them.

[fallen hollow]

The terminal entry is completely unhinged.
https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon-1/arrival/never-burn-money

[somber hamlet]

I can enjoy something fictional that I think is completely wrong. Marathon wouldn't be the first game that would diss capitalism. The irony being most games wouldn't exist without capitalism and ordered liberty.

[somber hamlet]

Thanks much easier to read than the monospaced font version I found.

[fallen hollow]

My pleasure.

[fallen hollow]

Marathon doesn't tell you what to think about capitalism, but it's certainly a universe I wouldn't want to live in.

[blazing palm]

It really doesn’t make a statement on that. Just because there are giant space corporations being shady doesn’t mean they’re dissing capitalism. Traxus hasn’t even proven themselves to be horribly controlling or evil, I’d probably cap it at shady, arrogant, and selfish. They want money, yes, but they’ve also brokered peace deals between MIDA and the UESC, as well as sacrificed their own valuable AI to recoup the Martian net (though that situation was all their fault).

TLDR: having a greedy corporation in a game doesn’t mean you hate corporations, just like having an evil person in a game or movie doesn’t mean all people are bad. That is assuming you believe these corporations to be evil.

[twilit cedar]

it is literally a science fiction game... science fiction without reference to real world power dynamics sounds like fantasy genre stuff to me.

so long as the power dynamics (i.e. politics) discussed stay relevant to the lore... and its context, parallels to real world political issues are unavoidable...

[twilit cedar]

@fallen hollow components of altruism are always required in social contacts.

it is the meat bag equivalent of digital systems expecting network protocols/standards (i.e. http) to be respected by other system to connect with .

social contacts = network protocols/standards
altruism = compliance

@plucky sierra has a point

[visual lynx]

there’s such a thing as market socialism you know. (Or probably you don’t, because most people don’t.)

I want to say a lot more on this topic, but as I already said we probably should not have a real-world politics discussion here, but join me at discord.gg/philosophy if you want to continue in a more appropriate venue.

I do want to agree on the point that every system of government depends on the virtue of the people who constitute it though. No government system can possibly just make bad people better, because it will be operated by said people and they will just do it in a bad way if they want to be bad. Some systems of government can encourage dynamical stability or instability though, keep bad actions from snowballing into total collapse, and rather dilute them amongst sufficient good actions… which still depends on there being sufficient good actions.

[twilit cedar]

"I just miss good story writing that uses metaphor instead of just directly saying the thing."

imho: in science fiction, its kind a unavoidable for those *metaphors" to "directly saying things" about power dynamics in their science themed fictional worlds.

i think your assumption/expectations might be more political than you realize
@somber hamlet

i'm just trying to preempt any intentional/unintentional use the IRL common tactic of its-too-political / nostalgia-only veiled censorship for the sake of the lore.

[twilit cedar]

"The irony being most games wouldn't exist without capitalism and ordered liberty"

i think this is at odds with our IRL human history/nature of games. @somber hamlet

[visual lynx]

can we please redirect political conversation to a more appropriate venue before I can no longer hold back the urge to expound on market socialism attained via reflexive exceptions to Hohfeldian active second-order rights in an otherwise standard NAP framework and why stateless governance is analogous to irreligious education and how reformism is meliorism in the political domain and the golden mean or unity of opposites or dialectical synthesis between revolutionary radicalism and reactionary counter-revolutionary oh god help I can’t stop you got me talking about it I wrote a 100,000 word book with this stuff as its conclusion summun hol me back before i

[fallen hollow]

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. The selfless concern for others, even at a cost to oneself is not a necessary condition for a social contract to work.

[fallen hollow]

That sounds like a long way of saying you have very strong feelings about how society should be organized and governed, and you're ready to get into a deep, complicated debate right now.

[fallen hollow]

This is also not true. Folks can act to maintain a good reputation, avoid punishment, and hope that others will reciprocate when they need help. None of that is altruistic, it's simple game theory.

[fallen hollow]

That's why I usually avoid arguing with folks who have strong opinions about subjects they haven't read about. If someone can't be bothered to read a thirty page manifesto before adopting a scathing opinion about an entire economic system, the juice is not worth the squeeze.

[plucky sierra]

Apparently we can say what we want here as long as we say “in Marathon” I think as long as it is discourse and not dispute we’re allowed more freedom of discussion then other channels

[fallen hollow]

The economics and political philosophy we're discussing are directly related to Marathon. The trouble starts when folks plug their specific modern social issues into the discussion and turn it into a lesson in sophistry.

[keen spade]

yo guys can you explain me the lore in a few sentences pls

[plucky sierra]

see pinned messages

[leaden bear]

Where do we get the cool profile decoration?

[fallen hollow]

Marathon is set on Tau Ceti in 2893, a toxic litter box where thirty thousand colonists mysteriously vanished leaving behind a colony ship called the Marathon and a massive corporate conspiracy that smells worse than the atmosphere. You are a cybernetic mercenary with a high insurance deductible called a Runner, tasked with scavenging what's left. You will deploy into hotly contested zones to swipe alien artifacts while corporations and the government let the guns do the talking over who owns the apocalypse. It is a chaotic stew of rampant AI, alien mysteries, and inscrutable signals, proving once again that the only thing more dangerous than aliens is corporate greed.

[twilit cedar]

"high insurance deductible" is a heel of an understatement. lol

[fallen hollow]

You missed the boat.

[twilit cedar]

well said.

i would add that (imho) some facial features of the runner models of the last beta lean towards those of oppressed/colonized/ or CIA-ed demographics in IRL.

i thought this a deliberate nod to the likely shady, exploitative, and gruesome reanimation a corporation may have used in creating the MJOLNIR Mark IV cyborgs the player uses in previous games.

though i could be biased by the many marathon easter eggs and strong slavery themes surrounding the Spartan2s in bungie's halo.

[fallen hollow]

If you say so.

[visual lynx]

yes except

[visual lynx]

this

[fallen hollow]

Understandable.

[bitter pawn]

if i have the tech test downloaded alr can i play tmr or is it a diff download?

[fallen hollow]

This is the #📚marathon-lore-discussion channel.

[low steppe]

Hi! Any recommendations to get into the lore ? like YouTube channels (I know of Jake the Alright) or podcast or even reading ? 🙂

[brave dust]

play the old games and read every terminal

[low steppe]

I am playing them but that’s gonna take me some time 🙂 I was going to specify this in my previous message.

[brave dust]

I wanna see what AIs are in the game. We know Oni (CyberAcme), Vulken (Traxus), Gaius (NuCal). Wonder if we see any OG Rampant AIs Leela Tycho and Durandal himself

[stiff hedge]

What a Marathon game without Durandal. I don't think we will see Leela 😢

[brave dust]

we could tho who knows, Leela supposedly went rampant and took over a 15 world alien FTL network

[tribal narwhal]

the marathon spoiler guide would be helpfull to find the hidden terminals

[summer sandal]

Help, Bungie sent me an email saying I have eligibility, but I couldn’t find the eligibility on the official website.

[rotund stump]

y'all why we clown reacting a guy asking for help 😭

also hi go to #🗣marathon-general-chat instead

[fallen night]

Back when I was doing the original trilogy, i downloaded a text file of every terminal message. It gave me a headache trying to read those back to back to back, and it still didn’t make a ton of sense. Now I don’t recall much except sometimes the AI’s were friendly and sane and sometimes they weren’t, and it didn’t seem consistent. Just the same impression I got while reading them in real time during the game. Maybe that was just me, though.

[south oar]

Yeah we should really be doing better.

[fallen hollow]

I've got you.
https://marathon.karnemir.com

[pliant goblet]

Is controller suppoort enabled?

[south oar]

Yes, but I believe (hope) they've reduced bullet magnetism and aim assist.

[loud bramble]

sus

[fallen hollow]

Check the pins.

[polar stone]

This was written so damn well I applaud you.

[wispy violet]

i'm still trying to figure out where my brain is in the lore

if we're all controlling shells, where's our bodies?

[fallen hollow]

Either on ice or long gone.

[plucky sierra]

It’s less of a brain and more of a digital neural network. It is ambiguous if organic bodies still exist for runners and if the process is reversible

[fallen hollow]

The technology exists to return consciousness from a biomata to the original body; however, it is unknown if Runners have access to this option.

[heady yew]

i need a code for the beta test on PS5

[polar stone]

Wouldn't matter. Even if you had a code, you would need an account which has been enrolled into the test.

Codes only provide access to download the game. If your account isn't provisioned, you're not playing. It's as simple as that.

[tribal narwhal]

yeah some of em are leela giving real info and some durandal going insane and some talk about whats happening at eartmars and such

[fallen night]

Thanks. That's what I was remembering.

[alpine iris]

man they beefed the lore hard in this video, maybe you shouldve just not tried to use marathon as a base for "popular genre of shooter" game you wanted to toss out

[eternal knoll]

i hope that shpt compiler aint just like a raid boss. making every cool cosmic entity into a big intimidating monster you can kill with a sniper rifle was such a drag in destiny’s lore

boo @ wall grafitti too very generic means of doing “environmental storytelling”

i will be buying and playing this game

[delicate swallow]

I NEEEEED an Arachne role now that they've talked about it publicly 😩

[faint ice]

Who do you guys think that face is that kept popping up in the Viddoc was?

[eternal knoll]

honestly it struck me as just a bit of visual design punchiness but i guess it could be an AI character

[fallen hollow]

Leela.

[fallen hollow]

I too want to join the death cult.

[faint ice]

I don't know if I'd join the death cult, but killing for profit does sound appealing

[fallen hollow]

Arachne is a death cult.

[faint ice]

I am aware

and I bet they pay well for stacking bodies

[olive elk]

i really hope all the crazy shit from the old games is canon like pathways to darkness

[fallen hollow]

Absolutely.

[fallen hollow]

It is! The only difference may be a matter of perspective.

[olive elk]

really excited for the game to come out to see how wild it gets

[fallen hollow]

Are you ready to frog blast the sleeping Gods?

[olive elk]

yes, hopefully we get to talk to the aliens that spoke to george bush or whatever too LMFAO

[fallen hollow]

The fact that Bill Clinton is canon will never not be funny.

[olive elk]

the new video they posted makes the game feel alot more like the older games too

darker aesthetic, amazing weather and corpses are really good glad they are listening to feedback

[alpine iris]

it literally has nothing to do with the older games lol

[olive elk]

saying it has nothing to do with the older games it def not true, we just dont know HOW much its related to the older games

[alpine iris]

its just cherry picking what it wants to make an extraction shooter. there is literally nowhere in the timeline this fits at all without HEAVY retconning

[novel bone]

Wild to see retcons and new lore drop live that hard and fast.
Even the Server icon and header changed to set the tone.

[olive elk]

as someone who knows alot about the older games theres obvious connections (the man speaking HAS to be durandal)

[novel bone]

Nicely done.

[alpine iris]

again, durandal got bored because his job was opening doors, this makes no sense for him to even be rampant during this timeframe

[visual lynx]

they did?

[visual lynx]

what video?

[delicate swallow]

Yeah they spoke about the factions in the new Vi-Doc they dropped today calling Arachne a "Death Cult" lmfao

Link here to video: https://youtu.be/fjzmhROTv28

[alpine iris]

i just want to know how it makes sense that this game is set in 2893, it literally makes no sense to me and i was hoping they would atleast attempt an explanation

[finite sparrow]

play marathon games and watch lore videos

[brazen quartz]

The modern race to Tau Ceti all started when a mysterious signal came through the galaxy
@ 2:05

Leaving aside the vagueness of "the galaxy", didn't the 2023 ARG confirm that the Equanimity mission to TCIV began when FTL comms with the colony went dark? The transmission that I think he's referring to is the mayday signal that MIDA intercepts right as the Equanimity arrives (possibly Leela's distress signal?), almost 100 years later 🤔

Has there been any indication that info from the ARGs has been retconned in the latest material?

[brazen quartz]

IIRC the 2023 ARG indicated that the TCIV colony secretly had FTL comms with Earth. When the colony is hit, the comms go dark, UESC suspects a MIDA insurrection, and they draft up a "rescue" mission (it's implied that there are important assets worth saving at TCIV, but they're also given clearance to nuke the colony clean if it's beyond rescue). A few years later, the Equanimity is launched and it takes about 100 years to arrive at TCIV. Does that work?

[alpine iris]

Not really, I'd have to double-check timelines

[brazen quartz]

Oh, if you're thinking of the attack on the Pfhor homeworld in M2 then yeah, I've seen no evidence that that ever happened in this game. It smells like an alternate timeline rather than an unintentional retcon, to me. Marathon Infinity said it's allowed

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re in the final Infinity timeline, which is very different from the M2 timeline in some ways, and unknown in lots of others, so many things from M2 may not have happened, but similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some small mistakes in their promotional material (like the date of the attack).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped by, Blake and co never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794.

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon still happened in 2811, which probably has something to do with whatever befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor alone ever since, and might have still toppled their empire even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take: rebel slaves… or potential customers (as biomata would be game-changing for the slave trade).

[alpine iris]

That at least makes more sense and puts some things into the timeline. Thanks

[visual lynx]

And as other have already explained, the UESC Equanimity was dispatched on a 99-year mission to investigate the communications blackout, then circa 94 years into that journey a mysterious signal arrived (“Somewhere In The Heavens They Are Waiting”) which prompted the corporations and runners to head out on a newer FTL ship that took only 5 years to arrive, getting there just after the UESC.

So now in 2893 everyone has just arrived at Tau Ceti and nobody knows yet what happened to the colonists or that the Pfhor or Spht even exist, etc.

[brazen quartz]

circa 94 years into that journey a mysterious signal arrived ... which prompted the corporations and runners to head out on a newer FTL ship that took only 5 years to arrive, getting there just after the UESC.

Oh, that's news to me. I thought everyone here was onboard the Equanimity. That's interesting! Was that mentioned in an ARG? I'm sure a lot of this background info will be in the in-game codex once it's released, anyway

[alpine iris]

alot of this stuff is going to get wonky, it really depends on whose telling the story and what timeline they want to follow. here is bungies OG timeline https://marathon.bungie.org/story/timetable.html

[visual lynx]

second ARG yeah

[turbid nebula]

The strange thing is the "somewhere in the heavens" message arrived like exactly when Leela said her message would arrive... It doesn't seem like her to send something so cryptic, though.

[fallen hollow]

Where in the ARG does it detail how the Runners made it to Tau Ceti?

[fallen hollow]

Perhaps it was intercepted.

[visual lynx]

I meant the Traxus ship on behalf of NuCal carrying Seki shells, and figured it was implicit that those were the runners

[visual lynx]

the timing is slightly different

[fallen hollow]

Are you referring to the Sekiguchi invoice or the cargo manifest mentioned in the Traxus chat logs? I'm not finding anything related to a cargo ship being sent to Tau Ceti.

[visual lynx]

I can’t actually remember the exact source, but I thought it was well-established somewhere that Traxus sent an FTL ship with estimated 5yr travel time in 2888

[hasty rain]

The corps seems to know aliens or something exotic was involved in the Tau Ceti blackout, because the ARG implied the transmission was gonna cause some sort of gold rush as they all scrambled to send operatives there

[visual lynx]

well the “somewhere in the heavens they are waiting” line would suggest the existence of aliens even if they knew nothing else

[fallen hollow]

I believe that idea may be built on layers of speculation.

I don't recall anything which references what you're referring to.

[brittle junco]

dosent nucal do food base stuff why are they carrying skei shells?

[cinder lance]

~~breakfast ~~business

[visual lynx]

I meant that the Traxus ship was carrying Seki shells; and the ship was sent on behalf of NuCal, who were a major investor in TCIV and so want to find out what became of their investment. and those shells run CyAc software, and that’s why all the corpos go there: for NuCal, via Traxus, using Seki, running CyAc. (MIDA and Arachne remain unknown).

all this to the best of my recollection which Karen has now thrown into suspicion.

[cinder lance]

secret arachne cultists infiltrate project goliath, as runners in a planned covert operation to inject arachne into tc4, the way MIDA did within the original marathon project.

[turbid nebula]

Arachne's cult sounds a lot like sword logic to me. Curious where that is going to lead.

[sacred oak]

I'm a sucker for a good sci-fi death cult

[cinder lance]

they said in the ViDoc, there is a progression tree that you can climb by doing missions, top tier gives top tier purchasables

for each faction

they described how they will all have different faction based niches

so maybe not purchasable for each one but different motives to climb a skill / mission tree

[rotund stump]

arachne probs got updated but old alpha icons it is lol

[tribal narwhal]

u mean the jjjaro thing?

[tribal narwhal]

who is bill clinton

[tribal narwhal]

why did the spth attak arent they like somewhat allied with humans

[tribal narwhal]

so there is anothershi except the equinimity? btw do u guys know has happed to robert blake and the phfor ship they took?

marathon is so back

so the massage that leela sent from the level g4 sunbathing was somewhere in the hevens they are waiting?

[nova vigil]

I'm looking at the Marathon timeline and referencing terminals to try and place the setting. If I'm placing it correctly, Blake returned to earth within that one month or so period in 2811 to address the problem of the "dead walking again." That falls within the period that originally stated "this space intentionally left blank." Now the text " Fire and Brimstone Seven Riders of the Apocalypse... 9320wrefkddud" is there, which was apparently text from the original Marathon Demo.

To add to this, we don't know what happened to Blake, only that his intention was to return to earth. Given the story of the modern marathon and notably late arrival of the corpos, I'd specualate he didn't make it. EDIT: I'm rethinking this, because the M2 end screen seems to be an omniscient perspective and states Blake made it. If that's the case, then I'd speculate that the UESC was able to keep the events on TCIV secret and focus their efforts on defeating the Pfhor, and it was Leela's message that tipped off the corpos and set the events of the current story in motion.

[nova vigil]

I'm not sure that's the same message Leela sent, and this kind of leads to my next thought. The timing of our shells' arrival suggests it was Leela's distress signal that tipped earth off to the fate of the Marathon. I'm no physicist, but the only explanation I can think of for the delay (the message should have taken ~12 years under ideal conditions) would be effects from gravitation redshift. Not sure if that's plausible, but something like a black hole seems a reasonable enough obstruction to delay the arrival, and perhaps Leela accounted for it. The other factor would be the expansion of the universe that would cause delay, though IIRC the canon in Marathon was that the universe was collapsing, which I believe has since been disproven and the accepted theory is that our universe is expanding. Regardless, I'm curious if anyone more versed in cosmology would happen by this discussion.

[polar stone]

So does NuCal have its own military?

[karmic wasp]

Probably no, but they are rich enough to hired mercs for their dirty work.

[fallen hollow]

All of the major factions have a significant paramilitary presence in the form of security teams and mercenaries.

[brittle junco]

Nucal like other mega corps here hire runners as merc and are able to supply them with weapons

While they do not have a stander military presence hiring mercs or pmc seem to be their way to combat with uesc

Cause why get your hand dirty when you can hire someone else to take the blame

[fallen hollow]

Plausible deniability is the name of the game.

[fallen hollow]

Any system exposed to a rampant AI is compromised. We can't take the terminals from the original trilogy at face value. Key letters from the ARG have made that clear.
https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/intercepts/uesc/letters

[nova vigil]

Are you saying the M2 endscreen is written by Durandal? I read it as an omniscient storytelling, which is why I valued the information there more than terminals (meaning the words of rampant AIs, which are of course not to be trusted).

[fallen hollow]

My conviction is that we are operating in the third game's final timeline, not the second.

[nova vigil]

Can you be specific? I'm working in the M1/M2 timeline because it has knowns, and the ARG has dates that also line up with M1/M2 events. What specific M:I events are you referring to?

[brittle junco]

Multiverse a bitch

[nova vigil]

Occam's Razor is sharp

[dapper latch]

new vidoc showed S'pht Compiler at end no?

[fallen hollow]

Indeed.

[dapper latch]

phfor confirmed then?

[fallen hollow]

Absolutely.

[brittle junco]

But yeah I think he referring to one of the many multiverse timeliness in 3

[dapper latch]

looking forward to see what organic enemies look like

[fallen hollow]

We know what the ticks, birds, and other fauna look like.

[nova vigil]

Right, but I'm unaware of any events of M:I that are grounded in the official timeline. There's no way to place them. The ARG/New game do have dates that place them in M1/M2. That's why I'm asking about specifics.

[dapper latch]

i would call those more traps or something then true enemies

[fallen hollow]

We can't exist in that timeline, unless Durandal lied to us. The Pfhor armada did not arrive at Tau Ceti and raze the colony to bedrock.

[nova vigil]

This is the most puzzling thing, then again we haven't seen all of Tau Ceti yet.

[fallen hollow]

Unless Bungie is rewriting the history of what happened after the first game to create a setting where the ship and colony are still intact enough to be scavenged, we're likely in an alternate timeline.

[dapper latch]

100% alternate universe than og trilogy

[fallen hollow]

The third game made it clear that we exist in an infinite multiverse.

[dapper latch]

its a reboot isnt it, will borrow elements from og trilogy but doesnt exist in same space

[fallen hollow]

Everything that took place in the original games is still canon.

[nova vigil]

Right, hence Bungie's multitude of other games that have the "flying dutchman" type hero. I've always seen the multiverse as other games, not other Marathon games.

[fallen hollow]

We rocket jumped through many such universes during the events of the third game. My guess is that the new game takes place in the saved universe of the third game.

[brittle junco]

For marathon case the mc is a walking traveler of the multiverse

An the fact this game has it cannon that their are other timeliness safe to say this is one of them

[nova vigil]

OK I can buy that, but everything is so consistent between M1/M2 it's hard for me to buy into it being a different universe. It seems to be a direct continuation of the original games.

[brittle junco]

Plus we did also kinda accend to being a God in that game

If I remember right the marathon did not get blown up in the first game compare to this one where it clearly been destroyed and is now floating above tau ceti

[nova vigil]

Kinda. It's Durandal/Thoth musing over its amazement that there was always an uknown "X-factor." A hero across time which he pins as manifestations of the hero in Marathon as well.

[brittle junco]

Cough player character of destiny cough

[nova vigil]

Yes, and the Master Chief

[fallen hollow]

What do you see as consistent? As far as we can tell by the ARG, almost nothing detailed in the second game's epilogue actually happened.

In case anyone wants to check for themselves.
https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon-2/epilogue

[nova vigil]

I don't think the events of the epilogue didn't happen, I think they were kept secret by the UESC. As far as consistency, the fact that the UESC immediately began investigating the fate of TCIV in 2795 (the memos from UESC are dated 2795, prior to Blake returning). The next year we have is 2888, and we only have the perspective of the factions. MIDA references a distress signal (which is consistent with the 2886 date of Leela's signal's arrival) and is mobilized in the ARG at this point, suggesting they didn't have any prior knowledge of the colony's destruction. I think UESC kept the fate of the Marathon and TCIV under wraps to stifle unrest, and once the distress signal arrived on earth, the factions mobilized and started using runners for their own purposes on TCIV, which is consistent with the UESC already being there. The other major event is the sacking of the Pfhor homeworld. I think this was also a UESC secret along with their alliance with the S'pht'Kr. It would make sense to keep the peace and prevent civil unrest.

[fallen hollow]

The memoranda show that the UESC was actively trying to determine the fate of the colony and its inhabitants, long before the 2886 distress signal. They were not working from a place of certain knowledge and secrecy, but rather one of uncertainty and investigation.
https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/intercepts/uesc/memoranda

[nova vigil]

Both can be true. They knew about it because they lost contact.

[fallen hollow]

If the UESC already knew the events of the epilogue, there would be no need for the lengthy investigation described in the memoranda.

[nova vigil]

How so? Blake doesn't arrive until 2811.

[fallen hollow]

The evidence strongly suggests that the UESC was genuinely ignorant of the specifics of the Marathon events until the 2886 distress signal.

[nova vigil]

What evidence? AFAIK we only have [UESC] communications from 2795, which of course they would be ingnorant of speicifics.

[brittle junco]

It is odd that if the uesc did not have any info they would have not done all this investigation but also the fact that it seems they already have a massive presence on the planet if the events of marathon 1 or 2 played out as you say they did

[nova vigil]

It took over 90 years for their ship to arrive on Tau Ceti

[fallen hollow]

Are you suggesting that the UESC successfully covered up partnering with an alien civilisation to sack the Pfhor system?

[nova vigil]

Yes, not dissimlar to the events of PiD and the human/Jjaro alliance. I think this conspiracy is deep and the secrecy is high. It would likely take many years and focus for them to develop the tech and plan the attack.

[fallen hollow]

By the time the Runners arrive on Tau Ceti, it's already been over a decade since the sacking of the Pfhor system.

[nova vigil]

I'm not following.

[fallen hollow]

The new game takes place in the year 2893.

[nova vigil]

OK?

[fallen hollow]

Where is the disagreement?

[nova vigil]

There is none, I just don't know where you're going with that.

[coral perch]

H

[plucky sierra]

NLS speed says game should take place in 2894, so it is interesting

[fallen hollow]

The incident at Tau Ceti is lost history, the colony is a relic, the decisive victory and subsequent peace seemingly never happened, and the UESC has only committed a single ship to secure what may be humanity's most important discovery.

[nova vigil]

I assume you mean the arrival of the Equanimity? I noticed that too.

[brazen quartz]

Reading between the lines here, but I strongly doubt the UESC is capable of covering up an interstellar war with the Pfhor. They could barely mobilize the Equanimity mission due to in-fighting and politics. IIRC they originally commissioned like 14 ships and it was whittled down to 1 in the end. I'm sure they can keep some things top secret, but not big stuff

[fallen hollow]

Absolutely. The corporations smelled blood in the water very early on, and didn't act until Leela's signal arrived.

[fluid stump]

it will get revealed since we the runners are basically the expeditionary force for the corporations

which is hella cool plus we seem to be really MIDA focused in a way lol

[nova vigil]

I don't totally disagree, though there are so many unknowns between 2811 and 2893. To me it was the most logical answer to the delayed response by the factions and most consistent with the previous lore of alien conspiracy/secrecy.

[fluid stump]

unironically traxis and MIDA might be the big factors for us giving shit to the UESC while the others might be specifically why the colony itself failed and its radiation and what not

[nova vigil]

There was a lot going on is my point.

[fluid stump]

there is a reason why on the VIDOC they mention that the UESC is keeping the runners out and also keeping something in lol

[fallen hollow]

I just don't see the UESC waging interstellar war in secret without the corporations knowing about it.

[nova vigil]

An alliance with the Sph't'Kr would be a powerful thing.

[fluid stump]

we are not sure if we did get interstellar war ngl

[fallen hollow]

It would be. It's a shame we haven’t seen even a hint of such a thing in the ARG.

[nova vigil]

Oh 100% agreed. But Bungie is always tight-fisted with the conspiracy bits.

[fallen hollow]

That's my point.

[fluid stump]

if we are going through the events of M1 and M2 then we could technically see not much from earth side, just UESC doing a secure op for anything related to the marathon and the compiliers since yk, actual alien life

this would mean that the marathon probably has shitloads of pfhor corpses too since ifykyk

[nova vigil]

IKWYM

The UESC has been there long enough to mop a bit though.

[fallen hollow]

The UESC certainly knows about the aliens. We see them in the latest ViDoc.

[fluid stump]

yes but i suspect we might get parts of ships during seasons iirc

2881
Pfhor home system is sacked by the combined fleets of Earth and the S'pht'Kr.[1]

for we all know this could've been a flagship operation and earth didn't go on this timeline cuz we didn't knew, so it was just the spht and others

[nova vigil]

Yeah, or the S'pht did most of the heavy lifting. If there's an alliance between the UESC and the S'pht still, it makes sense that a complier would be among UESC troops.

[fluid stump]

which is not the case since the vidoc clearly shows the complier surronded by UESC heads and limbs

[nova vigil]

I didn't notice that! Would be interesting if they're not aligned.

Could've also been UESC killed by runners though

[fluid stump]

the banner for the server shows the complier somewhere with shitload of UESC heads and limbs, while the runners are also hidding iirc

[brazen quartz]

I think this might be the missing link I've been looking for. Take it as you will:

There was no second ship - the runners we play as are crew members on the Equanimity. The manifest includes about 200-300 crew, including some civilian members acting as security (it's a bit vague, but I think that's accurate). I believe that's who we are.

I think it's safe to assume that the Equanimity has FTL comms. So when the distress signal is received ~5 years before arrival, the megacorps (with their AI representatives onboard) begin convincing the runners to work for them. The game starts 6-12 months later, with the runners teleporting down planetside to steal stuff without permission from the UESC.

But if someone finds a source about a second ship aside from the Equanimity, lmk

(IIRC some of the earliest ARG material contains timestamps, showing that the first reveal trailer was roughly 6 months before some of the later content)

[fluid stump]

It does mean that traxis and other affliated personnel was on tau ceti already since white rabbit and all that

[brazen quartz]

I don't follow that logic, sorry. I only take it to mean that the runner-on-runner violence was already happening when we, the audience, catch up in medias res. So these rogue operations have been going on for at least 6 months but likely a bit longer. And if we assume that the crew was aware of the distress signal 5+ years before arriving, they were primed for chaos and backstabbing well in advance too

My point is that I still haven't seen any evidence yet that there were other ships aside from the Equanimity. I'm sure the in-game codex will shed light on it though

[nova vigil]

I need to dive more into this because its so interesting and mysterious. It seems odd that mercs would make it onto a UESC ship. Tech has also advanced almost 100 years since the Equanimity left, so I'm curious how bound by distance shells and runners are.

[fallen hollow]

Am I missing any key dates or events which have been confirmed by the new game or ARG?
https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/timeline

[fallen hollow]

There is nothing in the lore detailing a second ship of any kind.

[brazen quartz]

I'll check when I get back from work later today. It shows timestamps attached to the first reveal trailer, when the white rabbit runner killed the UESC one

[brazen quartz]

It seems odd that mercs would make it onto a UESC ship.

Here's how I see it: in the cyberpunk genre, it's very common that megacorps are just as powerful as large governments (and certainly stronger than small countries/govts). So while the UESC may own the Sol system, they're co-dependent on Cyac for their infrastructure, Traxxus and Nucal for manufacturing, etc. So it stands to reason that they each get some representation on this TCIV mission. The UESC has some hidden info on the Marathon and TCIV, but aboveboard the corps will want to make money off of it. And the runners fill in the gaps.

There's a lot of useless chatter in the ARGs, but it doesn't look like it was a clean operation. Like I mentioned before, they originally wanted 14 ships and it eventually got whittled down to just 1 repurposed frigate during the planning stage. Lots of back and forth between the parties

[fallen hollow]

Calling all lore masters. I need your help! I updated a Marathon timeline based on the most recent ViDoc. I am hoping to capture only the dates and events mentioned by the new game and its promotional material to our best knowledge. Could you please conduct a peer review and suggest any additions or modifications? Thank you!
https://marathon.karnemir.com/marathon/timeline

[nova vigil]

Musing over this now. Interesting choice of words for the last line of the M2 Final Screen (my emphasis): "They were the only human survivors of the original Tau Ceti colony."

[dire estuary]

Which also confirms another thing, the pfhor wiped everyone left behind after the first game

Then more colonists likely came, because tciv has something the uesc wants. Which is where we see all the new looking buildings, and the cinematic of the ones in full body suits

Radiation or some sort of contamination on the planet after the pfhor were through with it. Thus robots and shells being used instead of physical human bodies

[nova vigil]

Yeah, this was really vexing me. Humans could have develped FTL-tech rapidly if Blake made it to earth in 2811 with a Pfhor ship and reverse engineered it, opening the door for the possibility of the UESC, another faction, or a corroboration of UESC/Private entities beating the Equanimity to TCIV and starting another colony. I say this because the ARG doesn't seem to suggest that the Equanimity was loaded to rebuild (someone correct me if I missed it). Also, if I got the numbers right, the Equanimity shouldn't arrive until 2894 or later (not sure if there is an official launch date given) due to the stated 97-year travel time, and the game takes place in 2893. Wild.

[visual lynx]

we don’t know that the spht attacked for sure, much less why they might, but if this timeline went as I speculate there, they have no particular allegiance to humanity, because they never tag-teamed the pfhor empire together, because humanity still don’t know that the pfhor exist.

[visual lynx]

no, she clearly sent a different message, and if tau ceti is actually 12ly away as it seems to be in the new game and IRL, not 92 as she states, then her message would have arrived 70 years earlier than the “somewhere in the heavens” message.

[visual lynx]

or we’re not in the M2 timeline at all and none of that happened

[fluid stump]

The robots and the shells are more of a safe bet, plus the UESC this time actually sent their army.

It makes me think the previous party was a recon unit or just not prepared at all for the attack.

It begs the question, did the UESC only send one ship or did they send multiple in secrecy? Seems like we are just being our own POV albeit very close to the corporations and terrorist/insurgent organizations like arachnid and MIDA.

Specifically MIDA, we can see something quite big soon since the ARG sites got taken down and its offline.

[dire estuary]

Thus this new game can be written off as a spiritual reboot

[nova vigil]

That's possible but it takes the piss out of it for me 🙂

[dire estuary]

Which I believe it is, while its still referencing the prior games and not dismissing the events of them. Which imo is the smartest thing to do with a series this old and debated.

[fluid stump]

Could be a marathon infinity timeline.

[dire estuary]

Every bungie game is technically another timeline of events. Every bungie game is technically connected. The point at which the timeline changes when comparing games is different for each

[nova vigil]

I much prefer to explore grounded continuations rather than speculative alternate universes until Bungie outright confirms that it's a spiritual successor.

[dire estuary]

I really dont mind either, i think its safer and better to not step on eggshells with continuing and potentially messing up lore from years past

[nova vigil]

Each their own. I don't see it as stepping on anything but rather loving the story enough to explore it fully.

[visual lynx]

that’s what I mean. I think we’re in the final timeline from Infinity, where we know at least that the colony wasn’t nuked to bedrock.

[dire estuary]

Theres some fan scenarios (thank you pfhorrest and many others) that try to continue the marathon trilogy and do a great job at actually staying within realm of possibility

Ofc bungie lost the rights to call the game an extraction shooter
They snost they lost

The greatest marathon scenario ever made gave me a migraine and motion sickness 🥲
1000/10

[nova vigil]

M2 gives us that possiblility though. I posted about it not long ago. The final screen references the original colony, confirming the possiblity that the colony was nuked and rebuilt within the original timeline.

[dire estuary]

Which likely happened
I think that the UESC wouldnt want to just abandon TCIV that easily, considering the fact they sent the whole colony ship carved out of a whole moon, plus the amount of investing and heavy weapons implied they were really trying to do something there as well as MIDA knowing there was more to it

The planet has something of significance and we see there are many anomalies on the surface.

[nova vigil]

Yeah, endless possibilities there. I'd wager the eight AI, or at least their remains, are part of the equation. There's also the matter of the trih xeem being used on Lh'own's sun and what might happen to the Marathon universe from a perspective outside of the SO.

[dire estuary]

We’ll have to wait and see

[visual lynx]

given that in the new game the fastest they can get to TCIV immediately following the Pfhor attack in 2794 is almost a century later, there’s surely no intermediate colonies between that one that Blake and co survived and the ruins we see in 2893.

maybe there will be others later, but that’d lie in the future of the new game, not the past

[fallen hollow]

Perhaps they're hiding more Battleroids?

As you carefully traverse the seventh vault, you hear the faint rumble of gunfire in the distance, reverberating through the icy bulkheads. You take a knee, anticipating the impending firefight. As the gunfire draws closer, you hear another, more troubling sound. Is that, an electric guitar solo? Suddenly, with the gunfire now upon you, a lone marine blasts through the wall travelling at Mach four, flattening your crew and setting you ablaze. You can barely gasp before a gauntlet fills the space between your ears. Destiny.

[nova vigil]

If we're running with the M2 timeline though, Blake returns to earth with an FTL ship in 2811. I don't think it's a stretch to say the tech could be reverse engineered in time to return to TCIV before the Equanimity can get there. The ARG would be inconsistent with the game as well, considering the Equanimity shouldn't arrive until 2894 if the travel time is 97 years, and UESC is already there (in 2893).

[visual lynx]

what year did the Equanimity depart (according to where)? I thought I remembered the math working out for 2893 perfectly.

[nova vigil]

There's no hard launch date given to my knowledge but I think July 19, 2797, according the ARG document A.45 (page 85/86). It's a memo addressing the crew in what appears to be a send-off letter. We could entertain that it was a transmission and the ship had already launched in 2795, which is where a lot of the planning communication in the ARG takes place, though there's still the problem that the manifest doesn't seem to indicate the plan or means to rebuild the colony, much less a crew of around ~200 people, mostly clones/soldiers, could rebuild and entire colony in a couple years (although we could speculate that it would be largely automated). The manifest itself is pretty vague but the operation itself was very stripped-down. It's also odd that there's so much UESC presence on the colony when one ship was sent (and they're relentless).

Given my initial read-through I thought 2797 date was more concrete

Worth noting the memo in question appears to be addressed to the UESC Center on Earth.

[cinder lance]

I'm picturing a "dungeon soup" styled animation of this and I want it to exist so so so so bad.

[cinder lance]

earth is borked, mars is hangry, tc4 *has * to work for them, and they are already in the "cybernetic mechanical immortal transhuman" phase of operations.

[dire estuary]

Its such an odd place to go…theres other closer by star systems with likely equally habitable places

[cinder lance]

as far as I understand it, it was picked as the candidate because it was the only viable option. Sure, UESC could just go somewhere else but I think the story is indicating they already know what they're protecting from scavs, to them the whole place is their house, so of course they are gonna live there

[dire estuary]

I mean…the closest star system to Sol is Alpha Centauri and Proxima

[cinder lance]

I think the main reason they stuck to TC4 is because it is so clearly right in the goldilocks zone, from the birds and natural life, plants, fungus growing. We would need that for a colony effort of that type.

[dire estuary]

Meanwhile many more lightyears is the Tau Ceti system…we already also know they have habited asteroids before, as it was a war between 2 asteroid colonies that resulted in the creation of the Battleroid

[cinder lance]

I think it would be neat to see the corporate exploits of our generous employers expand to regions outside of or adjascent to TC4 down the road. That could be FIRE

for example, Pfhor baddies pull up and we rock ops on them on their territory

[dire estuary]

Because the original marathon ship had 10 Mark IV Mjolnir Cyborgs (we cant say theyre actually battleroids, but its only implied they could be); military grade weapons; and various incorrect data logs