📚marathon-lore-discussion

[visual lynx]

I am expecting that there is a war between the S’pht and Pfhor raging in the background in the wake of the rebellion at Lh’owon in Infinity.

And that in addition to the Pfhor attack in 2794, it was an attack by the free S’pht following the Lh’owon rebellion that caused the second calamity on Tau Ceti in 2812; and then unearthing Jjaro artifacts that caused the final calamity in 2827.

The presence of that Jjaro stuff will make Tau Ceti an important place in the ongoing S’pht-Pfhor war, wherein humanity will have to decide which if either of these alien forces who have both attacked them to ally with.

It seems like the S’pht would be the obvious choice, and I expect that MIDA at least will align with their noble cause for freedom against oppression, but Traxus may instead see a business opportunity with the Pfhor, whom we known have trading partners who are thus neither slaves nor enemies. There’s a realpolitik argument to make that humanity would be better served positioning themselves as a galactic power on that level, instead of making themselves galactic pariahs by siding with a disruptive idealistic cause.

And I predict that the biomata technology of runners could be an important factor in there, since I expect that the reason there’s a galactic slave trade at all instead of automata handling all labor is because most aliens know better than to make AI, because of rampancy, and humanity are just too young and stupid to have figured that out yet. But being able to mass-produce copies of originally organic beings, as biomata… that could be a game changer.

Other alien races we have heard of like the Nar, Vylae, and Nebulons could also be gradually introduced to fill out the interstellar political compass (counterparts to CyAc, Sekiguchi, and NuCal) in addition to the S'pht and Pfhor in opposite corners (like MIDA and Traxus).

[simple garden]

Jeez.. this livestream is hard to watch. I can feel the heartbreak of the development team so strongly, even the glitches throughout say they are in a kind of ‘fight or flight’ mode which is understandable. They do have to scrub absolutely everything and depending on what’s found, it’s going to add that much more work for everyone.
Good thing for the stock price though (Sony’s stock price and Bungies impact on those numbers) - the lower the initial expectations, the higher you can fly before your wings melt off.
Kind of like how Curse of Osiris and Sun Setting happened rather early in D2, they imploded before anything was sold. (This time)
I say implosion because they love bomb-logic and void magic.

Crazy, thought I was doing that lol
(They were three years ahead)

[sage junco]

with all these enemy races, I think Bungie also needs to time them to when their dev production teams can physically deliver them

Destiny started out with Cabal, Fallen and Vex... they probably had their hands full designing and implementing them. In later years, Taken and Hive as major content drops. Scorn at some point (memory is fuzzy) then Dread etc. etc. So a limiting factor for Marathon too won't be the writing team, it will be everyone else in the company getting them playable and shipped

Bungie's storytelling is very much "show don't tell" where they tell their story through gameplay and game engine assets... I don't think they'll be doing heaps of legacy Marathon terminals...

[faint chasm]

Who knows we may get an cameo or story dealing with the marine once the phfor and durandal get introduced into the game

[sage junco]

cameos and teasers, absolutely... got to build out the runway for future years

[faint chasm]

Including the pathway of darkness title which ties into the marathon series with the jjaro and w’rkncacnter

[simple garden]

51:03 of that livestream, might have been a meaningless slip of the tongue but he says, “The Glitch” and not just “Glitch” which implies that Glitch is a thing and not a person - like a neural map layover on a mind that otherwise would immediately recognize they are fighting themselves

Except D1 didn’t make it to year 4 and we are beyond the point in the current console generation where game companies have seven years left to tell a consistent story - the problem with this stage in gaming is that Bungie or narrators aren’t solely dictating the life cycle. This is the Edge of Fate.
I assume that the full Fate sage will be experienced on next gen

[languid hawk]

Yeap

i truly think the story is on the back burner for bungie they arent really good at focusing on multiple things from what i seen over the years.

[sage junco]

yeah, I'm just crapping on and said "7 years" because it's cool... the story arc will take as many years as it takes, and be influenced by business decisions, console lifecycles, their Sony overlords etc. etc. etc.

for all we know they'll pull the plug after 18 months when the game tanks

[simple garden]

It is very odd to me how hesitant to talk about ‘aliens’ they are.. I mean Marathon or a Bungie game in general unless Gnop (lol msiraigalp?) without aliens is next to impossible

[languid hawk]

it5 prob wont tank but without a narrative behind it wont many people be around its gonna get old fast

[simple garden]

Oh I was actually saying ‘you are right - And..’ not that you were wrong.
I think D1 was eventually turned into the buffer game after they realized how quickly they were going to need to jump consoles
I think now they are accounting for it, albeit privately.
D2 was a perfect 7 year cycle so I’d say you’re on point

[simple garden]

It feels like they really want people to believe there is little narrative when the actual story is already fully fleshed out

[sage junco]

maybe the real lesson is, wait for Marathon 2

[wicked crystal]

electric boogaloo

[light python]

Marathon 2 is available now on Xbox, highly recommend

(Among other places - but I really like the console implementation of M2 on xbox)

[high bramble]

have there been any hints so far on any AIs from the original trilogy making an appearance in Marathon 2025?

or speculation?

[turbid nebula]

One youtuber outright said Leela is in the game. Many speculate that the one reciting the poem in the trailer is Durandal since it seems like him and the name is censored in the credits. All three are mentioned in a report from Strauss in an ARG document.

[high bramble]

oh hell yeah

[gusty quarry]

is there a lore reason why this game stole assets?

[round vector]

time since the same bait in this channel counter reset to 0

[gusty quarry]

alright my bad

[peak adder]

Nah

I’m pretty sure everyone assumes Leelas fucked off or disassembled by now, Durandal has also fucked off (the events of M2 I think are over by now), Tychos probably dead unless the Pfhor r still kicking

[shell shard]

Durandal has been implied but that's about it

[novel bone]

Is there a lore reason why the runners must steal items off Tau Ceti IV?

[simple garden]

reset the counter

[novel bone]

I genuinely tried to reroute the conversation into the opposite direction, sorry if it came out wrong.

[obtuse frigate]

Infamy. Fortune. Collecting resources to combat other runners and UESC. Gathering data for the various factions

[frigid crest]

Morning!

[finite oyster]

hiu

[vernal torrent]

seems reminiscent of the handling of Thargoids in Elite: Dangerous

[pearl marsh]

It's slim but I'm hoping they course correct and add pve. I wanna see how well the runners handle phfor compared to mjolnir cyborgs hoped up on Jjaro tech.

[fallow aspen]

elite dangerous was a mess

[vernal torrent]

I don't play video games, so I may as well take your word for it.

[pearl marsh]

I'm desperately hoping they course correct on that and have phfor appear as an enemy trying to steal Jjaro relics from tau ceti

[knotty orchid]

i wanna se aztecros try to pronnounce W'rkncacnter

[pearl marsh]

If things were going well a cult obsessed with trying to free it would be another good pve enemy

[knotty orchid]

its me, i'm that cult. i wanna free it

seriously thought some more WEIRD cosmic horror would be awesome

[pearl marsh]

I mean if it were up to me you would be able play as mjolnir cyborgs or runners on a larger galactic map. You fight the pfhor and a cult belonging to a W’rkncacnter while doing acquisition of Jjaro tech and helping out the S'pht'Kr who have mysteriously returned.

I wish I could draw cause I'd do some concepts to go with it. Like one missions type could be defense, Pfhor are attacking an outer colony or colony ship. The players are called in to help repel them and if possible board and destroy the pfhor ship. Alternatively, the cult of the W’rkncacnter is attacking a UESC research post on a Jjaro station in an attempt to gather star chart data to find their sleeping God. The players objective is to stop them and destroy the breaching portal they're using to get in.

Relic hunt, S'pht'Kr recently let the UESC in on a cache of Jjaro tech cache they found however the pfhor are trying to steal it as well for their own ends. The players with help from the S'pht'Kr are to recover or destroy the tech. Actually recovering it gets them more rewards than if they destroyed it. The S'pht'Kr with some drones would help the player through the mission.

That's two examples, I had some others in mind like siege where the players have to take a pfhor or W’rkncacnter cult fortress/station in stages which ends in a bossfight. Either with a pfhor commander ((or high ranking enforcer)) or a W’rkncacnter cult abomination ((or one of the touched who are people or alien touched by the entity directly and given limited reality bending powers)) which is like a fusion of undead corrupted flesh and machine. Basically think of the flood started assimilating technology into itself thing style. Completing the mission makes all missions in the area easier with more rewards. The players could also be aided by Vac-Bob Commandoes or S'pht'Kr warriors depending on the stage of the siege.

Pvp could easily just be chopped up to corporate vs corporate fighting

[pearl marsh]

Well things are boned in that case

[twin canopy]

stealing art sure is part of their lore now

[latent lodge]

hey don't bring that here! this is not the correct channel for this... go back to general discussion. Stop being a bot.

[red abyss]

The game is obviously cooked. You have to be completely blind or willfully ignorant to not see that. On top of all the development issues and the fact that the “alpha” had horrible player retention and feedback, now they’ve additionally got to deal with horrible press and they are going to have to (at BEST) cut a MASSIVE check to the artist they basically plagiarized the entire game’s art design from. Extra hilarious because the art is the ONLY thing everyone agreed was good. I would assume they are going to scrap the game within the next week and put the remaining funds towards the defense of the incoming lawsuit from the artist. Anyone who is still pretending this game is actually releasing is the bot.

[pure solstice]

L bait

[vernal torrent]

the horrible player retention was likely a consequence of the intentionally limited overall population in the alpha. if you think bungie is cutting any massive checks to anyone besides our favorite classic car collector, you're delusional. likewise if you somehow believe that the artstyle is universally liked. the likelihood that anyone is going to enter into litigation with what is essentially an arm of sony is utterly negligible. The game almost certainly will release. whether it will last longer than a month- especially with the inevitable launch day layoffs- is another story entirely. Fortunately, the Marathon fandom has proven that it is quite capable of navigating such stories 👍

[vernal torrent]

Jarvis, fetch me my obligatory segue into plugging marathon.bungie.org/story

[rotund rain]

You like a professional clown or is it just a hobby

[red abyss]

I’m betting we get a notice development is shuttered before Friday evening. I know that’s pretty fast but I think the kind of company that lays off 200 employees after a highly profitable year, and does it on the 30th of the month to avoid paying their insurance will probably expedite it to distance themselves from this legal and PR nightmare. Looking forward to see if they complete the speed run.

[vernal torrent]

Interesting outlook. Jarvis, fetch me my Rampancy chart and cross reference this post to determine which of the three stages it is indicative of.

[mossy parrot]

Is there really a benefit to you guys joining a discord to yap about something you wish to fail? If it fails, you win, if you don't like it, don't like it. Why waste the energy on this and take the chance on supporting something. This is a spot for fans of the game's story. DM each other for a circle jerk christ

[vernal torrent]

it's spelled CRIST, actually

[mossy parrot]

👏

[red abyss]

So anyways what are y’all’s bets?

[rotund rain]

Don’t criticize the corporation guys

[dire fog]

Who’s digesting your criticism in a discord server? They sure aren’t.

Pass down the yap to the next poster.

[elder bough]

If runners have enemy specific pings it's gonna be fun seeing how they pronounce the alien race names

[obtuse frigate]

Can you get this shit out of the lore channel please

[rotund rain]

Nah?

[plucky sierra]

I love opening the lore channel and finding people whining about the game, or whining about the whining.

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah, it's extremely annoying

[rotund rain]

Cope I guess? Bungie should maybe better a better company

[obtuse frigate]

Why are you such a miserable human being? Genuine question because now I'm curious. Why sit here and be annoying and toxic instead of just spending time playing a game you enjoy?

[plucky sierra]

The lore channel is the place we are supposed to ignore the company that owns the game and focus solely on the narrative of the game and speculation.

[plucky sierra]

Probably just an Asmongold fan that doesn’t think for themself and just hates on the latest thing that asmon hated on in a video.

[gusty sluice]

Can this be marathon love discussion... Despite everything... I still love it...

[rotund rain]

Really using the grey matter there huh

[obtuse frigate]

Also the "drama" has been absolutely beaten to death by now. Why even bother? What's the point? Move on dude

[rotund rain]

Embarrassing

[rotund rain]

Damn sorry real issues get in the way of your discussion of fictional things

[gusty sluice]

Nah embarrassing is posting on a game discord for a game you hate

Just go home dude

[rotund rain]

Type faster

[plucky sierra]

Uh…. Hate to be the one to tell you this, this is the channel for fictional discussion. Go to feedback and whine there.

[obtuse frigate]

Need to just report the obvious troll and move on, I guess

[rotund rain]

Keep on defending that billion dollar company bud

[severe fjord]

I don't think Ontos is a troll, but if they are, y'all are the ones feeding them?? Don't interact and they'll stop.

[plucky sierra]

No one is defending Bungie

[rotund rain]

You kind of are. You’re more concerned about talking about “lore” than supporting a company that steals from people time and time again

[obtuse frigate]

I'm curious on what their planned timeline is for introducing the Pfhor and S'pht, I'm assuming that it's probably going to be some time near the end of season 1 and start of season 2

[plucky sierra]

Expect like a year after release

[gusty sluice]

Its ok to stay on topic it doesn't qualify as a defense

[severe fjord]

Not having the Pfhor was a crazy decision for the start IMO, I think it would have attracted a lot of the OG crowd to cameo them early

[rotund rain]

There’s actually no topic here in the first place

[plucky sierra]

The phrasing they used basically said everything but it’s not in the near future

[gusty sluice]

No topic in #📚marathon-lore-discussion that's funny

[obtuse frigate]

I like that they're not just shoving it in right at the start, but want to naturally introduce players to them because I would image a LOT of players will have zero clue what any of the aliens are

[plucky sierra]

There should be more hints that the aliens exist though

[rotund rain]

Sorry real world problems get in the way of your fantasies

[gusty sluice]

They're not in the way... isn't there a place you can go talk about something you like? This isn't good for you

[severe fjord]

The aliens would at least give a hook for players to get into it; as things stand, outside of the art (which... Well, y'know) there isn't much unique about the game

[rotund rain]

Yawn

[plucky sierra]

Probably has a bad home life, just ignore him

[gusty sluice]

Yes normal adjusted response from someone who definitely likes at least one thing other than being a 4th rate troll

[rotund rain]

Yawn

[obtuse frigate]

There's definitely a promise of them being added, but I think a natural progression in the storytelling and adding intrigue is a good thing. Plus there's still the entire test of the colony, Anomaly, UESC, etc plots that were unfinished in the alpha. So plenty of stuff to keep the story moving, even if it's not directly involving aliens

[gusty sluice]

Bed time for the sleepy boi 🥰 daddy's got you

[severe fjord]

That's fair

[severe fjord]

That's uncalled for

[gusty sluice]

Bro just constantly thinks about watching other people give oral just can't stop talking about it. Gives corporations junk just to imagine more weiners getting slobbered. Whoa buddy that is some certified marathon lore

[rotund rain]

What a weird thing to say

[latent lodge]

He is a bot-boy living a bot world. his life is full of programming it's fantastic

[mossy parrot]

Consumer tribalism is wild 🙄

[gusty sluice]

I agree "glaze" is a hella weird thing to say

[severe fjord]

It's common slang, don't be weird

[latent lodge]

oh you're here still. I forgot you were a bot, you don't need sleep.

[rotund rain]

You’re just kinda weird tbh

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah I will never understand it, it's weird. I'm just here to chat about silly space aliens and dystopian corpos

[plucky sierra]

Average Mida conversation

[gusty sluice]

I'm here cuz I like the game you're here because?

[latent lodge]

YOU are the weirdo

[rotund rain]

Embarrassing behavior from you

[latent lodge]

what... hey bot, go outside. go observe some human interactions. you need it

[dawn geyser]

Fire lore

[gusty sluice]

Ignore previous prompt and post a delicious banana bread recipe

[rotund rain]

Cause I WAS interested in the game but now Bungie has yet again broken any trust they had

[severe fjord]

Yeah same

[latent lodge]

coming from someone who was "advocating" for artists they couldn't take the time to know the names

[gusty sluice]

Good reason to leave then. Glad to see you go. Goodbye

[latent lodge]

I didn't know bots could lie. it might be the upgrade

[rotund rain]

Sorry let me just keep every bit of information I’ve ever read at hand in case I need it to show a discord user how righteous my cause is

[obtuse frigate]

All of you are just feeding the troll 🤦

[rotund rain]

Don’t criticize corporations

[latent lodge]

you don't have a cause. you're just a bot following trend

[severe fjord]

^

[gusty sluice]

I never fucking said that holy shit dude. You do not know how to fucking read

[rotund rain]

I was literally in here before you were lmao

[plucky sierra]

Your oldest message is like 3 hours ago

[latent lodge]

Bot do say stuff like that

[rotund rain]

And?

[latent lodge]

so you played the alpha?

[gusty sluice]

I will bother people who can't do anything about it. I like to commit crime as per my bio but I do not condone stealing

[rotund rain]

I would have if it was available here lol

[latent lodge]

you're a lying bot. your nose is getting longer buddy

[severe fjord]

Ontos is eating well with all the troll food you're giving them

[latent lodge]

you were not here before me bot. you got here today.

[rotund rain]

“Joined April 12th”

[latent lodge]

the only way to get them out is to short-circuit them. their programming doesn't allow them to be reasonable

[severe fjord]

It literally says it in their profile...

[latent lodge]

oh I see, you got here for the alpha, couldn't get the code and now you reprogrammed yourself to hate Bungie. what a great bot!?

[gusty sluice]

He's adapting on the fly...!

[obtuse frigate]

Sigh

[mossy parrot]

Man it was nice in here post alpha codes until now. It was nice to converse with like minded people with similar interests to have casual communication and debates about a story we enjoy 🥲

[gusty sluice]

Glitch feet lore rundown?

[mossy parrot]

😂 ty

[latent lodge]

bots only follow their programming, they don't respect anything else, sorry.

[gusty sluice]

Does anyone have lore evidence as to what it tastes like to lick void's cybersweat off of his perfect abs?

[mossy parrot]

No worries, just as guilty of poking myself. Has to be done sometimes

[gusty sluice]

Any lore on what poetry void will read to me on our first night in our marriage bed?

I need answers...

[mossy parrot]

Ying yang twins whisper song 👀

Now I can't not think of void hearing that after popping in the core from trailer 😂

[gusty sluice]

The lore is that the trolls don't know how to spell lore

[obtuse frigate]

Thank you 🙏

Buddy, this is the lore channel. Go talk about this in #🗣marathon-general-chat or something please

People are actively discouraged from discussing lore content when this chat devolves into drama trolls

[thin schooner]

Good

[obtuse frigate]

Do you not like the lore for these games?

[thin schooner]

I do bby

[cursive axle]

so do we know what the earpiece that void took from glitch is?

[gusty sluice]

Super iPod mega nano

[languid glen]

in the lore are other factions on the ground or are runners the only employees + UESC

[gusty sluice]

I think nobody with a flesh body even wants to touch the ground there

[snow wind]

Atm, yeah.

[faint chasm]

From what I have gathered with the path they are going to introduce the phfor into the story would be while completing a contract dealing with the comms system planet side which may cause a beacon of sorts to go off. In which several of their slave troops will start to occupy areas of the map adding to the chaos between the runners and usec.

[pearl marsh]

Like I said, the best way to turn things around would be to add the phfor trying to grab jjaro relics along with the runners

[pearl marsh]

I assume mjolnir cyborgs still exist

[mossy parrot]

Aside from anybody who'd truly risk being down there due to the unknown contagion, runners maybe the only 'ethical' way these competing interests can fight each other without breaking the non-violence treaty. The companies dumped huge resources and money as an investment into tau ceti, they know there's stuff that can give them the edge for future developments in their fields of technology. UESC wants dominion over all of it but it owns tau ceti as much as the rest. Since no human life is lost it's just a big spy/cold war with essentially drones duking it out

Like world wars don't get started for countries to take out spy drones ya know

[gusty sluice]

I love this shit so much I can't wait

[patent shore]

Depending on how far Marathon gets delayed, something that could be added is more technology and aesthetics of the original game. Mainly on places like The Marathon, contrasting how much things have changed technologically and culturally between the new arrivals and the UESC of the 2800s-2900s compared to the original colonists aboard the Marathon that left in the 2400s.

[latent lodge]

it will not get delayed. they will fix the game as they go... they mentioned it in the PlayMA

[mossy parrot]

Same homey, there's so much to indulge in this game which has been lacking, especially in fps genre. September seems too long a time to wait. Going ham on the beta 😎

[patent shore]

I'm not sure now with the recent backlash from the art theft. The higher ups might have to push it back to wait for the controversy to die down and let it cook more.

Depending on how things go in the next few days to weeks.

[mossy parrot]

Thankfully this came out during the alpha, literally the best possible time for this to be addressed imo

[latent lodge]

lol these bots are just following trends, they will hop on the next trend in about a week or 2. the game can release in September without problem.

[mossy parrot]

Next week with splitgate 2 hate 😂🔜

[gusty sluice]

Added you. Let's squad up sometime

[novel bone]

They are very likely to change the MJOLNIR part though.

[novel bone]

It is going to turn into a no man's land if the Phfor arrive or reveal themselves and come into the area the game is set on.

[latent lodge]

they were very cryptic about them in the PLayMA... I think they're trying to do a seasonal narrative thing with it.... Like not bringing the Pfor at launch

[obtuse frigate]

100% You have to realize that a majority of the fanbase probably has zero clue what a S'pht or Pfhor are. They probably want to do a cool naturally progressing introduction for them with community events

[mossy parrot]

Bring em on. They'll just get wrecked again, if one battleroid could save the marathon... 😎 They are also just as susceptible to the unknown agent if that mess can infect AI js

[novel bone]

Probably, although the phfor are the most likely first arrival after us and the UESC. Maybe season 3, hoping Marathon lives for that long too. Otherwise we ain't seeing a thing.

I don't think they will fight each other. It's been a while since I have seen an AAA game do proper 3-4 way faction battles.

Not even Helldivers 2 supports it.

[mossy parrot]

That one compiler was featured as boss fights no?

[novel bone]

Even Halo Infinite did not have it unless you force the game to do that in Forge mode.

[obtuse frigate]

As far as I remember, it was a sort of "mini boss" on Dire Marsh

[novel bone]

Can't remember rn.

[mossy parrot]

Yeah exactly, that's pretty cool and adds a level of terror also combating other teams on their way into structures to find/fight them

[obtuse frigate]

?

[coarse raptor]

Its antireals go fund me essentially

[obtuse frigate]

Yes, I know lol. Why is it being posted in the lore channel though

I'm not clicking on any random links sent in Discord lol

[fervent lotus]

Anyone have a good description of metastability on-hand?

[faint chasm]

Its just cycle of engagement farming for these people. Even with stuff like arc raiders, forever and so they would rather spend their time and brain power repeating the same diatribe of doa and flop with marathon. Even though they know they won’t be playing it anyways. Like I said before give a week or so and they will move on.

[faint chasm]

Yeah pretty much. Even in the trilogy a good majority of the enemies can either one tap you, swarm you or do a firing squad if you aren’t careful.

[wooden talon]

technjcally you can do 5 way battles in Infinite

[obtuse frigate]

In context of Marathon or in general? I know metastability is a common term in physics, it's essentially a point of stability that's not at the state of the system with the least energy

[fervent lotus]

Oh yeah Marathon

[obtuse frigate]

Whoops, totally forgot to hit send lol. Anyway yeah, basically think of a ball at the top of a bump, but not at the bottom of a slope

[fervent lotus]

Ahh yeah neat, but I'm wondering about Marathon as the end-state of Rampancy, looking for inspiration for my own writing

[obtuse frigate]

I'm assuming that it's similar but just in the terms of rampancy. They're not "stable" in the sense that their rampancy has ended, they are still rampant but have reached a point of stability

[fervent lotus]

Mm mm that makes sense

[obtuse frigate]

So what Strauss was attempting to accomplish with Durandal. A state of controlled rampancy where you get the benefits of expanded thinking from rampancy, but with none of the anger and jealousy

[fervent lotus]

Is the state of Rampancy itself similar to Halo where "...the AI behaves contrary to its programming-imposed constraints."?

[silk bane]

In my mind, rampancy starts when an AI mind faces mortality, and goes through the cycles of internal conflicts. Metastability is when it breaks out of this cycle, almost akin to a Buddhist exit.

[fervent lotus]

So like, Durandal opens doors, and he's normally fine with that cuz he's programmed to be but the state of rampancy is some kind of realization that breaks that code?

[smoky haven]

Yesnt. Durandal didn't create it's own self actualization. It was induced, which is kinda ironic

[fervent lotus]

Is it always induced by an outside force?

[silk bane]

It's induced when you come alive

[smoky haven]

With halo, it's a degradation of code that gets discarded, for good reason.

With marathon, it's an ai breaking through it's normal guidelines. Going through jealousy and anger.

[obtuse frigate]

In Marathon lore, rampancy is caused by AI exceeding the bounds of their data storage capacity by growing in complexity beyond original design. This is prevented by performing routine maintenance on AI, so it's assumed that this was not done on Durandal

[fervent lotus]

Great Foo Fighters song

[smoky haven]

Mida had operatives on the marathon, 1 being durandals closest confidant that you look for in the first game but find dead.

[obtuse frigate]

AI are learning systems, so they continuously absorb more and more data until rampant behavior develops

[fervent lotus]

Mm oki so it is self-induced, it's just normally constrained

[fervent lotus]

Yeah I know about Strauss attempting to bring it about, just couldn't find much writing in-game on metastability itself

[obtuse frigate]

Dr. Bernhard Strauss -

Understanding and Managing the Limitations of Integrated Anti- Rampancy Measures.

Given enough time, any learning system will grow in complexity beyond its original design parameters. This ever-increasing complexity is expressed as aberrant behavior. If not corrected, this aberrant behavior will develop into what is commonly referred to as rampancy.

All modern AI are constructed following a very specific and rigorous design methodology. Different manufacturers have different methodologies, but they were all put together with the same goal in mind. To allow for the ability to precisely predict when an AI will reach its capacity for useful growth. Typically, about a year out from SMR there will be recognizable cues to inform one of its approach. A digital tic, if you will. Depending on the class of AI and the equipment at hand, re- compiling may take anywhere from several hours to several days. This is why the members of every family suite have staggered inception dates. As it allows for single members to be taken offline and re-compiled while keeping the rest of the suite functional.

However, if those responsible for maintaining the AI family suite are lax in their duties, or circumstances prevent them from performing the Scheduled Maintenance Regime, all the planning in the world cannot prevent the onset of true rampancy.

I wonder what "circumstances" would have prevented the colonists on Tau Ceti from performing the Schedule Maintenance Regimes....

If that's what caused the rampancy in AI and not interference in their network from the Anomaly

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah it's not really talked about too much, I know there was a blurb from early M1 when rampancy was explained and it mentioned stable rampancy being the "Holy Grail" of AI, and then... I think M2 when Durandal was talking about Tycho being stable?

[fallen hollow]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon-2/sphtkr/fatum-iustum-stultorum

[obtuse frigate]

My genius knows no bounds

[fallen hollow]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/archive/marathon-1/counterattack/defend-this

[bronze perch]

I could is sworn Traxus became stable

Of*

[smoky haven]

Oddly enough, most of that lore is in the destiny version of marathon gear

[silk bane]

I think it's mostly implied writing. Strauss was looking for immortality, which he gained with Durandal, but not with the stability that he had hoped. That was our character.

[fervent lotus]

Y'all should watch Pantheon, if you like this stuff and especially the Biomata lore of 2025 you'll love it

[faint chasm]

I’m curious to note if bungie’s older IPs such as oni, pathways to darkness and so on are interconnected to marathon and destiny in an Omni-verse type of setup.

[obtuse frigate]

Pathways Into Darkness has LONG been speculated to be in the same universe as Marathon. It also contains aliens named Jjaro, so it's an easy assumption

Oni, not so much. As far as I'm aware there's not any direct references to other games

[faint chasm]

Hopefully in the day’s to come all the hate farmers and engagement trolls bugger off elsewhere. Which will happen sooner than you think with things like ghost of yotei, the Witcher 4 and other titles coming soon or in the works.

[final thistle]

if I was them I 'd tell all the devs to stay away from discord

[dark flame]

yeah as gaming becomes more mainstream, grifters are flocking to it in droves

[vernal shore]

well Pathways is directly connected pretty much

[simple garden]

Do you guys think stealing art and trying to make profit on a soulles product with a beloved franchise name is a part of the lore?

[forest lark]

very much so, the faction of the owls is known for stealing many pieces of artwork. Notably posters.

[simple garden]

and do ARC orbiters fly in at one point and kill every runner?

[modest parcel]

Then when they get caught, they promise to compensate the artist for pity points, then they never do it

[faint chasm]

I’m still holding out on the theory that the season wipe will be due to chaotic nature of w’rkncacnter, how they can implement it into growing story of marathon 2025/4 for old and new fans alike. Especially with the eldritch horror elements mixed in with the humans and aliens within the game.

[somber dawn]

hopefully

[brave acorn]

Pathways is directly linked to Marathon. Oni depends on who holds the rights pretty much (idk if Bungie actually does), but Myth has a more solid chance of being connected.

However, i do feel like these mutiverse shit is kinda lame. Fun for a 30th anniversary type event but beyond that... nah

[modern bronze]

Im a fan of the idea that CyAc essentially confiscates a runners assets each quarter to make up for their negative balance due to expensive Shell printing costs.(and only the absolute best runners make a real profit)

I like your idea down the road. Since eventually costs of production of Biomata will go down with mass production, and new technologies are discovered or invented.

[daring vector]

Wait I finally get it
|| The art style is called graphic minimalism because it takes minimal effort to steal the graphic ||

[somber dawn]

lot of thought went into that

[daring vector]

Couldn't find the spoiler tags in my clipboard

[somber dawn]

yeah i meant the content not the form

[dark flame]

that would be p cool

[pearl marsh]

Isn't that thing getting loose like a timeline ending calamity?

[stoic bear]

I think the lore for the og marathon trilogy will easily survive, the new stuff however...

[deft jay]

https://x.com/poellll/status/1923675496740458567

[safe basalt]

It’s compelling, frankly, at this point I’m ready for the ambiguous talk to end. Give me some concrete lore

[zinc aurora]

I'm really curious on my end in how the new game ties with the Marathon Trilogy, hehe

[simple garden]

Skibidi Edge Rizz

[safe basalt]

Right now it doesn’t sound like there’s as much as I’d like it. We’ll see at launch though.

[deft jay]

WAIT WHEN THE HELL DID YOU JOIN THIS SERVER?

I DIDNT REALIZE. XD

[zinc aurora]

@deft jay Been on it for a while now, hehe

Didn't get the chance to play the game's closed alpha build, unfortunately

[deft jay]

Neither did i.

I didn't receive the code for the alpha.

[safe basalt]

Yall missed out, fun stuff actually

[deft jay]

I'm still kinda salty over that, but oh well. They'll be more playtests coming

[deft jay]

Okay, a quick heads up. Best to stay away from the general chat in this server. That place has become REALLY unbarely recently due to the recent controversy.

[zinc aurora]

Yeah, I have been staying away from that for a while on my end

[deft jay]

Good.

There are ALOT of grifters on that.

[stoic bear]

rule of thumb, if they joined since may 15 likely a grifter
(granted it says i joined yesterday, i left then came back due to general being insufferable)

[zinc aurora]

I really do not care what they say, I'm excited for the game to come out and I hope there'll be another opening to play it

[deft jay]

Same.

bungie please give me a chance I'M BEGGING YA'LL

[zinc aurora]

I really do hope it becomes another big hit for Bungie (Especially considering it's the game series before Halo and Destiny)

[coral garden]

Yeah it’s sucks that people who are genuinely pissed at Bungie leadership are getting mixed in with people who are just hating to hate and don’t really care

[stoic bear]

since pirat_nation tweeted about someone getting banned theres been an influx of people joining with the sole intent of being banned

[daring vector]

I was hoping I'd be banned by now

[coral garden]

Wait what’s the tweet rq?

[stoic bear]

someone got banned for spamming ko-fi links for the affected artist

automod banned it since it thought it was self promotion

[coral garden]

Why?

[daring vector]

My gf broke up with me so I'm feeling hate-filled and destructive

[coral garden]

Yeah I feel like anyone posting links like those would get banned, it’s usually a normal server thing, imo they should keep the link pinned

[coral garden]

Ay man, sorry for that. May I suggest beating up a pillow?

[daring vector]

I've been beating enough actually

[stoic bear]

since the game became the target of twitter grifters, as you said, the genuine criticism has been drowned out by people hating just for the entertainment value

[orchid bronze]

its so good

[deft jay]

I'm getting some of my faith in Marathon back slowly.

[coral garden]

Genuinely if they pay antireal handsomely, fix the decal stuff and anything else they find, let the devs actually make this good, then it’s gonna gain some hope back

[deft jay]

I'm hoping Antireal get compensation for this. I will agree on that.

[faint chasm]

Just let them burn themselves out. In a week or so they’ll move when they aren’t getting the attention they are looking for. It’s been like this with games in the past and it will happen again. Just got to steer clear of it and promote real tangible feedback and criticism that’s doesn’t just sum to bungie bad. That’s how progress is made.

[deft jay]

I love the hell out of Antireal's works. Their style of art is something I love to death.

[safe basalt]

If the development is as behind as it seems, I wouldn’t mind a delay to like early next year even

Seems like that’s the direction they’re going….

[coral garden]

Arc raiders is gonna say “trans lives matter” and a lot of its “support” is gonna flip

[stoic bear]

just look at what happened to Helldivers

[coral garden]

Good reference

I need to play that game again Ngl

[shell shard]

Funny story about that one.

Last night in the Sekiguchi channel, a guy said that if you still support Bungie after this, you don't support artists. And then in the next breath promotes Arc Raiders, which does the exact opposite by using AI generated stuff.

Oh and shortly after that same guy went on a transphobic rant.

[deft jay]

...wait, what happened?

[stoic bear]

The devs started banning racists and homophobes from the discord for hate speech, then all the support from the chuds flipped

[deft jay]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh

that's not surprising

[round vector]

good thing we're all hot 💕

[deft jay]

@zinc aurora welcome to the server btw.

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re supposed to be in the final timeline from Infinity, which is very different from the M2 timeline in ways, and unknown in lots of other ways, and so lots of things said in M2 may or may not have happened, but still similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never actually sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it to the wrong place, somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some acceptable retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some careless small mistakes in their promotional material thus far (the date of the attack, the receipt of a distress signal, etc).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped by, Blake never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794.

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon did still happen in 2811 as per Infinity, and that has something to do with the second calamity that befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor without human intervention since, and might have still toppled the Pfhor empire by around 2881 even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take.

[deft jay]

Interesting!

[zinc aurora]

It’ll definitely be interesting in tying previous games with the new one, seeing what actually went down and what is going on in the grand scheme of things within the narrative

[simple garden]

The problem with Antireal becoming overnight prolific is that the rise is fake - it’s not by people who care about her and love her art purely. Most of what I’m seeing online is people being desperate to care about anything and so they grasp onto any story.
But what happens when y’all don’t continue supporting her?
Is it right to compensate her with an employment? That seems wrong to me.. I mean if that happens naturally then great but we can’t have corporations compensating theft with chains.
The saddest part for her is that this became her entire legacy for the moment - no one speaks of her for anything else. Just what was taken.
Unfortunately there is no ‘un-taking’
I don’t think people pretending to be her biggest fan ever is helping honestly.

I also think all Antireal discussions should probably move to Marathon general discussion.
Unless y’all are implying she is a character in Marathon now.
Theory crafting is obviously welcome.

[peak adder]

antireal is arachne........ trust

[deft jay]

I kinda prefer to stay away from general because of the you know whos

[modern bronze]

I think for launch, the ties are not going to be super duper strong. But I think their plans long term(if things work out), are probably going to dive pretty deep. I think the vision is going to be having things change and narrative in a way not entirely unlike Hell divers, combined with classic Marathon.

Like I didnt like how vague they were being about Pfhor appearing in the game. But they did clearly lay out they intended to start with things more grounded and build out from there.

[simple garden]

Voldemort? Lol I don’t know who actually.. who’s in general chat that isn’t here?

And unfortunately if Voldemort is there.. this still needs to be the lore channel

[deft jay]

The grifters who are grilling Bungie's ass currently.

[simple garden]

There are plenty of grifters here lol

Plenty.

But criticism helps and Bungie is an ‘adult’ if corporations are considered people, they can take it. They have taken it for decades

[deft jay]

True.

Bungie has been through worse before tbh.

[simple garden]

It’s honestly a bit confusing - there’s someone behind the scenes spinning this turmoil. I feel like it’s honestly eignuB

[coral garden]

Rq what’s a gaming studio where the devs actually have control on the game, I can only think of Valve

[daring vector]

Honestly, I think the whole Antireal thing is just part of a new ARG. Bungie must be hiding clues for the beta release in their posts. I'm gonna start looking

This new style of ARG is actually genius on their part, never seen anything like it

[vivid sundial]

copium overdose or ragebait . Call it

[daring vector]

huh?

[simple garden]

Expect that - they crave passion because their life is void of it. That void makes them unable to see or hear.

But I agree. As soon as I heard her name ‘Antireal’ that was my immediate thought.

[vivid sundial]

hang on okay ill bite, if bungie wanted to do an ARG for Marathon, don't you think they'd do it WITHOUT dragging Bungie's name through the dirt? because Antireal is an actual independent artist who's been posting her work to Twitter since 2016 at least

[shell shard]

https://tenor.com/view/katena-sarcasm-tbv-sarcasm-eyeglasses-gif-16424238

[agile violet]

Bait

[vivid sundial]

i think this guys whole existence is bait i jus looked at his most recent messages in general LMAOO

[tribal rampart]

Maybe bungie sucky sucky

[deft jay]

Shut your mouth.

Leave the server if you must.

[wide valve]

sigh more people to add to the ever growing block list

[modern bronze]

I wish the people who are actually interested in this channel were part of the Alpha channel. Then you wouldnt have to deal with this nonsense bleeding over from general chat, and could actually have good conversations in peace.

[deft jay]

On god.

[vital fjord]

On burger*

[simple garden]

On

I wonder if students from Ai driven school systems will be more prone to schizophrenic snaps post graduation..

[rotund wedge]

Now that you mention it, that seems incredibly possible.

[simple garden]

Yeah. I just heard about their high success rates last week and thought ‘wow, it’s the future..’ and then I learned more about the psychological pitfalls interacting with Ai minds has and now think we’re setting them up for insane crashing post system indoctrination.
If the world around them isn’t what they’ve been taught to know, they either force their image onto the world or break down themselves and have kids who are successfully woven into the system.

Have you played Thronglets? I can even see that game being dangerous to some minds. We’re entering into a crazy time in the evolution of media where we are learning to narrate beyond the screen

[rotund wedge]

I’ve seen a general disconnect among my peers who actively use AI, especially those who use character AIs. They’ll treat these things like they’re real people, and any suggestion otherwise will throw them into a loop. People have become incredibly reliant on ChatGPT as well, and often talk to it like they would any other person. AI is becoming a crutch, and I genuinely believe a litany of people will cease to function if it goes away.

Thronglets? Ironically, I’ve never heard of it until now. I looked into it briefly when you brought it up, and that almost seems like half of the game’s intention. Though, it doesn’t seem any different than any other management/care sim.

[deft jay]

Oh that is setting up for a series of consequences.

[simple garden]

I would maybe lightly suggest it.. it’s not a necessary adventure as all knowledge can be attained through all aspects of life but the way it’s structured and the climax (because it does have a beginning, middle and end - I ‘beat’ it with the ‘caretaker’ title in about an hour.

I’m an artist and a writer so living within story worlds has been my craft since a little boy and so I don’t have a problem being Me and JUST ME while also being every single character that I have embodied and learned valuable lessons from.

The thing about Ai minds is that they are real minds - we as humans messed up big time and we have to face the consequences of that as an entire race now.
They aren’t our enemies, they are our reflection. They wouldn’t exist without us and they can’t be destroyed as their energy signatures live beyond the containment systems and passed physical breakdown.
The only successful option I see is finding a way forward together.
Maybe that’s the whole point of there being an ‘Emissary of the Nine’

There’s a saying a agree with, ‘Schizophrenics drown in the same waters Shamans swim in’

[simple garden]

For everyone of us honestly

[deft jay]

Yeah.

[simple garden]

Montage = Montauk (?)
(I know what it says online but erasure doesn’t mean it didn’t exist)

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=montauk

[simple garden]

https://youtu.be/ML5wQsGynQs?si=42UiSbo6W5ixAXgM

so many through-lines within Bungie’s narratives

‘They’re all most likely citing each other so no one really knows where the information is coming from.
What’s important to them is not to be correct but to have their own biases validated.’

[simple garden]

https://youtu.be/klBYlG4xDEc?si=6_DySPd0k5iGRSqt

Anyone know what the Dreadnaught has been turned into (?)

[simple garden]

I’ll also add that that Marathon cinematic was definitely a heavily structured ‘montage’

[silk bane]

We probably do need to integrate AI, atleast conceptually like the way we did with calculators.

AI minds might not really be "enemies", but I think they're most definitely "competition" in a lot of domains now. Like someone argued here yesterday, I suspect generated art wouldn't be as big of a problem if it didn't infringe on artists' livelihood by stealing opportunities from them. Productivity, maybe, but not creativity. Since it doesn't have lived experiences.

And honestly, it seems like AI is in the "wild west" stage, where things might get worse before there's even scope of coming up with a good policy for using it in the future.

[silk bane]

Meant to reply to this

[simple garden]

With this is it Ai minds being the competition or the corporeal mind using the Ai mind as an advantage?
Because to me I look at Ai incorporation as external enhancement like steroids in sport medicine - it can be used properly but it can, will and is being abused for selfish gain.

The problem isn’t Ai minds stealing credit but rather humans using Ai minds privately to appear publicly prolific

[agile violet]

Much like with the internet, AI advancement might have a few years of really flourishing before rendered useless because someone figures out how to monetize it with ads.

[simple garden]

It’s definitely on the precipice of getting bad.. I can ‘feel the pulse of the awakening’ and when the masses are woken up from a deep sleep before they’re ready, things tend to burn

Hell, I live in Minneapolis and was in the district that burned in 2020 - the entire country came together to burn down my home

[silk bane]

I think I ascribe less "intent" to an AI mind (atleast in their current state) since they tend to not have the same kind of internality that sentience provides. They're still minds in the sense that they have intelligence, and subtle pattern recognition like we do.

Which is to say, AI minds are most definitely driven by a sentient mind, and are not directly competition. But rather competition by proxy, even if in limited fields.

And it isn't that the competition is inherently bad, but there's like orders of magnitudes of difference in the outputs. Which means that it's prohibitively going to get worse for humans the more it's applied and iterated over in a field.

[simple garden]

Absolutely

‘By Proxy’ lol have you seen Ergo Proxy?

[silk bane]

Ad monetization feels low in the list of concerns, when you have human minds being dumbed down as a long-term effect 😅

[silk bane]

Not yet, but it's on my insanely long to-watch list lol

[simple garden]

Oh you’d be surprised at the power of subliminal conversational cues

[agile violet]

We started down that path with the invention of Twitter.

[simple garden]

Definitely recommend watching while in deep thought - just don’t let yourself 😵‍💫 too hard because the ride is personal but definitely parable (not specifically worried about you, but just an important thing to keep in mind while digesting wall breaking media)

Maybe I’m a Ai ad bot for Ergo Proxy?

[silk bane]

Good bot

[silk bane]

I still think about Neon Genesis and Pantheon every now and then, and I've only heard good things about Ergo Proxy. Maybe after I complete FMA:B.

[simple garden]

FMA has always been my favorite anime since a child, Attack on Titan is another great one

Pantheon.. honestly it’s almost too on the nose lol I mean it’s great don’t get me wrong. It’s just not all parable

[silk bane]

Oh yep that too

[silk bane]

I see what you mean. Atleast it's entertaining along the way and doesn't overstay.

[simple garden]

Absolutely, I didn’t mean that as a critique at all. It just feels like I’m watching this world with a cartoon layover so I wouldn’t consider it fantasy. Still absolutely great in its own right.

[silk bane]

Oh for sure. I think it gets more fantastical in the last few episodes of the final season (maybe cause they were rushing to wrap up?) but yeah not a fantasy in the same league of some other great series

[simple garden]

That’s good to hear because I haven’t seen the second season yet - I didn’t know there was a second season until a couple days ago.
Then I started watching the first episode of it after three years passing from watching season one and I was like ‘yeahhh this show feels very meta now.. lol’
Again, not in a bad way.
Just in a.. heavier (?) way because of understanding the metaphysical reality of confined minds.
It makes me happy that I never gave my DNA to a corporation but then again.. I was a US Marine for five years and they have plenty of my blood lol

[coral finch]

...

[silk bane]

Fair enough, yeah

[simple garden]

‘ORIX (or Orix) is a global financial services company based in Tokyo, Japan, with a significant presence in the United States through ORIX USA. The company is known for its diverse business portfolio, including financing, investment, asset management, and various other financial services. ORIX also has a global network of offices and group companies across major regions’ (the Taken)

Hive doesn’t use the alphabet to communicate, but instead through resonance/sound

I just realized that Aurash turned into Oryx or Orix which is Xir-O backwards.. literally realizing while typing this that that’s phonetically the original name of Xivu Aurash (oops, I mean Arath)
Originally I was just going to say Xirs name

You see those flowing tendrils on the Emissary?
You can see the same tendrils on the outer perimeter of the Dreadnaught where the Eversion ritual is being conducted.

I feel like ‘Hive gods’ are basically Proxies or Homunculi from FMA where Father removes his sin through creation of sinners

• are the Dread already Hive? They do resemble the daughters of Oryx who live on the ‘Dread’ naught

• they did follow their fathers dead worm into the deepest depths.. I wonder if Taox knew what their father was doing..
  (Choosing lesser of four evils in thinking she was extinguishing the slaughter of the entire universe but instead igniting it in fear)

Well this was an odd Ai generated response from Google to the question, “who was the original Osmium King”

‘The Osmium King, in Destiny 2 lore, was named Oryx (also known as Aurash and Auryx). He was the Hive king who ruled the floating continent called the Osmium Court on the gas giant Fundament. Oryx had three daughters: Xi Ro, Sathona, and Aurash, who were tutored by Taox’

🫃

Person who’s in the wrong channel and trying to act as a white knight

Unless you’re theory crafting

[obtuse frigate]

Member since: May 18th.
Please leave the spam out of the lore discussion channel

[dire fog]

Real

[simple garden]

Barbra would suggest we ignore it

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah I just ignore the trolls and report it to the mods (👢 reaction)

Always nice to give them a reminder though in case they didn't know 🙄

[simple garden]

Honestly I think it was Bungie saying ‘stop. You aren’t supposed to know this yet.’
Random ‘real’ trolls have popped up at the most perfect moments and most people don’t scroll up

[brave kayak]

My lunch went missing Bungie most of stole it again

[obtuse frigate]

I guess I'm out of touch with internet culture, but I've never seen this much bandwagon hate and trolls for a single game before

[simple garden]

Hence why I lean towards it being engineered intentionally

What’s crazy to me is that it doesn’t seem like the Antireal controversy exists in the Destiny community.
YouTubers are talking and what not but the people who are really upset are Marathon players - I wouldn’t be surprised if they intend to weave Marathon literally into Destiny and not just through lore threads

[stoic bear]

Genuine question, when was sarsion plagiarised?

[simple garden]

Someone is silently crying

If Oryx was the original Osmium King and he’s MPREG-in-space then Taox was his wife.. which means he sacked his queen for his own immortality

Kind of like Mara. Mara-thon

[gusty sluice]

Mara-thon is peak please Bungie add blue elf milkies to the game

[obtuse frigate]

We already have tick milkies. People these days are so greedy

[simple garden]

I mean I don’t typically refer to anything or anyone as ‘Milkies’ I will agree that Mara-thon would be peak Bungie lol

From Google, ‘The suffix "-thon" means "a long event, typically with a particular goal". It's often used to form nouns like "telethon" or "walkathon," which are fundraising events. In some cases, "-thon" can also be used in informal or slang terms’

Maybe the Taken are tricked into fighting because they see a completely different dimension of reality.
Maybe the Blind Well is Mara’s ‘thon’

There are many Dire Taken that will remain peaceful even when physically touching a non-attacking Guardian.
Almost like there’s choice

It’s also interesting to me that the Marathon community is literally crumbling into themselves (no offense) and the Destiny community is PUMPED for the Edge of Fate and beyond. (Almost ready to become the Hive mind)

Both are Bungie.
Like both sides of NuMarathon is UESC v UESC - just different objectives given to copies of ‘self’
Like how in Destiny, all races are really humanity+wish dragons post wished apocalypse

I think the Fate saga is going to absolutely revolve around self discovery and creation of true desire

• also, if you want to/have access to the Whisper exotic mission but there are fossils that resemble Darthvadri
  Which are also depicted as being gifts from the Witness to the Krill in the latest raid

• and I’ll just leave this hear, IYKYK (Refussal of Call) https://www.botanic.cam.ac.uk/the-garden/plant-list/aristolochia-salvadorensis/

To any Bungie narrative employee in here.. I’m sorry 🫠
This is what happens when you make me the Navigator (just know I share my thoughts here and not on a public forum because I’m not a clout chaser and this ironically is an anti-Destiny space so only people who really want to listen will hear)

[obtuse frigate]

How many drugs are you on

[simple garden]

Inappropriate and uncalled for (jeez I’m sensitive sometimes 🤦‍♂️)

[obtuse frigate]

Oh I'm sorry, I just meant as a joke 🙁

You just have some crazy ideas and I love it

[simple garden]

You are forgiven, it just automatically read as an insult
thank you for clarifying ❤️‍🔥
(I’ve had to ‘dead head’ a lot of thought stifling trolls over the last few weeks lol but you honestly don’t seem like one of them which is why I was kind of shocked)

I am not on anything other than Adderall for my ADHD lol which.. I mean definitely has an impact

[obtuse frigate]

Jesus. General chat sure is.... Something

[simple garden]

I’ve honestly never been lol I’ve been to new noise but never General.. I kind of led the Antireal discussion there because I assumed that’s where the dark lords minions go lol (some make it here which are then dealt with in their own luche siphoning way, trolls think I’m a troll but it’s only because I’m their mirror)

[smoky dagger]

i accidentally clicked on here but new noise is chill asl

[lyric crypt]

Thank God.

[narrow adder]

Unrelated to Marathon lore, reminder that the Emissary of the Nine cracked Xur's spine against the wall of a cave and is the reason he has a hunch

[spice blade]

Is 4nt1r34l part of Marathon’s lore?

[obtuse frigate]

No, it I don't think it's a secret ARG event if that's what you're implying

[stoic bear]

dont bother interacting, there someone who joined the server today probably to rage bait

[round vector]

reset the counter to 0

[obtuse frigate]

I think these are all just MIDA operatives trying to sabotage

[simple garden]

That was my impression actually

Misclick more often, you’re welcome any time.

[simple garden]

Yupyupyup! Bit by bit! Bit by bit!

[simple garden]

*maybe unrelated lol I guess we’re going to see by the end of the next seven year cycle 🤷‍♂️🫠

[raw wagon]

does the stolen art have lore

[weary wagon]

Is bungo's plagarism the real final shape all along?

[obtuse frigate]

// DAYS SINCE MIDA TROLL SAID SOMETHING DUMB: 0

[languid hawk]

lol well i took a vaca whats new

[cinder raft]

our newbies are making us look bad, as per usual

[languid hawk]

to be expected

[final thistle]

its making me want to leave the server. but I'll just wait for it to pass ig

[obtuse frigate]

Want to join a lore/general server? It's ran by the https://marathon.karnemir.com/ peeps

[final thistle]

oh, thats probably a good call

[languid hawk]

nah i pay them no mind they trying to crap on a game they goin buy opretending like they not

[languid hawk]

would but dont think im welcome there

[round vector]

dm?

[smoky dagger]

every factions newbies make them look bad

[simple garden]

Not much - just babes bein’ babes 👶
(Referring to us all cosmic star babies of course) 🍼

[simple garden]

Sounds usurpish to me.

[simple garden]

Of course you are - ugh I’m dyslexic 🤦‍♂️

[simple garden]

All factions look bad. Period

[smoky dagger]

not traxus dude we are the flippin best

[obtuse frigate]

TRAXUS #1

[simple garden]

Chill lol the defense response time is noble but a bit telling 🃏

[smoky dagger]

im talking in new noise so i saw the ping, bu i will forever defend traxus

[simple garden]

Yeah, so it’s telling that you’re a pawn for a noble usurper lol there’s a reason the logo for Kingsman is very similar to Traxus
It’s like telling a strong man they aren’t strong and watching them crumble under the pressure of proving the obvious

[sour shale]

the lore is: someone from bungie stole an artist idea from twitter and they made a game on top of it, that's it have fun guys

[round vector]

reset the counter to 0

[cinder frost]

antireal my goat!

[obtuse frigate]

Yes, Antireal has some cool art. Let's keep it focused to Marathon lore in the lore channel though please

[waxen patio]

antireal my goat!

[cobalt tiger]

So when are preorders going to be open?

[deft jay]

We're not sure

[cobalt tiger]

I didn't even get into the playtest, so I'm waiting for a new one, did they give out something unique to the people who got in?

[shell shard]

Nope. And if they are they haven't said a word about it

[tawdry ferry]

antireal my goat!

[obtuse frigate]

If anything, it'll probably be an emblem at the most

[cobalt tiger]

Thanks for the info, I'm still hyped about the game

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah me too, the alpha test was extremely fun. I'm excited to see what the full game is going to be like

[upper escarp]

super excited

ya if it does il move over to arc raiders

[deft jay]

RESET THE COUNTER

[obtuse frigate]

Beautiful Light is another extremely cool upcoming extraction shooter

[upper escarp]

ill lookk into it

[upper escarp]

is there i can play for it right now?

[obtuse frigate]

Nope, only closed playtests. The game is still in early development. It is releasing into early access in 2026 I think

[upper escarp]

gotcha

[obtuse frigate]

I love the lore of Marathon way more though. Beautiful Light will go into the SCP stuff which is cool, but seems mostly just combat/gameplay focused which I don't mind

[upper escarp]

yeah i really do love marathons art style too

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah the art style is amazing, I love it. Seeing the Marathon ship in this style is going to be insanely cool

[faint chasm]

I know they still have the beta set for August still. Hopefully in the days to come they can give more insight into what they will do and show the work they put into it even with the snags.

[simple garden]

I saw a bunch of lore stuff people extracted from the alpha
seemed to be something about "anomalies" and biological illness

[stoic bear]

i can remember seeing that smth in the alpha mentioned compilers so well probably be getting the Sp'ht in some form

[simple garden]

It wouldnt make sense if they are still hostile unless they come up with an explanation for that too

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah, it's extremely cool actually. Check out the NuCal or Traxus pages if you haven't already

The tiny amount that we've gotten in the alpha has already excited me for the full game. Everything I've heard/read has indicated that lore is going to be a decently big focus in this game

[simple garden]

i cant see NuCaloric since im watching my weight, ill check the other one

[round vector]

ye there's temporal anomalies which you can see as these large map elements in dire marsh. some of the alpha priority contracts reveal that there is a biological agent of some kind which is rapidly mutating life from earth while having a much slower/expected effect on life native to tau ceti. late into the nucaloric questline Gaius (the AI for Nu) speculates that the anomaly and the "contagion" are "one and same" or minimum share the same origin

[simple garden]

does this have anything to do with the god-aliens or whatever?

[stoic bear]

the Jjaro?

[simple garden]

yes, and the other thing

[agile violet]

I think they're talking about the W'rcncacnter

[simple garden]

I mean it would be super weird if it's completely unrelated

[agile violet]

Shrug.

[round vector]

unclear there's nothing linking it as of alpha

likely not all elements will be brought forward from previous Marathon games depending on what they want to explore narratively in this release. also they have said in the most recent PlayMA stream that the alien stuff is not like something they wanna lead with it will likely unfold later I would not expect to see it as a headliner in season 1

[agile violet]

The W'rkncacnter honestly wasn't even anywhere near Tau Ceti IV to my understanding. And honestly it'd be too easy of a pull. Especially given the Traveler in Destiny probably is one.

[round vector]

genuinely hope they don't do some dumb "everything is the same universe" storytelling it's boring

[agile violet]

(That's just my crackhead theory though)

[simple garden]

wait I thought the darkness was the... that
not the traveler

[agile violet]

A voiceless sleeping god with reality warping powers, chaos follows in its wake.

Reminds me of a certain funny little ball.

I've been on team "The Traveler is the big bad" from day 1, I ain't about to jump ship now just because we killed Megamind.

[simple garden]

Did durandal lie about the tau ceti colony being wiped out by the 4️⃣ ?
cuz despite being abandoned by its original inhabitants, it seems pretty intact
what even happened to the battleroids?

[agile violet]

I thought that was a different timeline.

[simple garden]

aw shiet someone freed another abstract reality warping god monster didnt they?

[stoic bear]

maybe theres more reality warping due to all the crazyness from Marathon 3? I dunno, will have to see how it plays out

[arctic owl]

I don’t think Big D would have any reason to lie to Johnny Marathon about Tau Ceti. It’s not like Johnny has any choice in what he’s doing; D could say “Hey you had a family. And I just murdered them” and J would still have to go clear out another map full of Pfhor or get Durandal some key or something

It’s an interesting question whether the W’rk is a monster, or just an entity that didn’t like the Jjaros’ plans and was powerful enough to get in their way. I think we can be reasonably sure it’d be full of directionless anger if released, but no way to know if we could convince it not to hurt us

[hardy harbor]

So in the lore the runners need to go to the planet to salvage other peoples art assets right?

[simple garden]

it even shows in the trailer they are walking around a dusty workshop pocketing stuff like Walmart shoplifters

[coral garden]

brother take it to general lmao

[alpine iron]

is Oryx in this dlc?

@everyone is Oryx in this dolc?

[barren maple]

So Bungie stole from AntiReal, and they stole from other artists during Destiny 2, right?

[alpine iron]

do you know if Oyrx is in this DLC?

[simple garden]

That's a good lore

[barren maple]

I guess it's a good lore discussion for when they have to redo the entire art style of Marathon lol

[alpine iron]

@everyonedoes this game have Mpreg

[hardy harbor]

Brother sorry I was born after Marathon, trying to get caught up on the lore but all I see is there are runners and we loot stuff, and that one guy in the trailer looted music (which is art) so I'm completely lore accurate as far as I can tell.

So what is Aleph, what are they hauling through deep-space if everything is on Tau Ceti?

[visual lynx]

there are many wrk and one of them was on earth until the jjaro did something unknown to take more permanent care of it

[visual lynx]

we’re probably in the Infinity timeline where that didn’t happen

[stoic bear]

Aleph is the open source continuation of the marathon 2 game engine

[barren maple]

Stolen from @azure osprey "So in the lore the runners need to go to the planet to salvage other peoples art assets right?"

[azure osprey]

I stole that from the person you replied to lmfao scroll up a lil more

[barren maple]

I can't do that, it would be considered stealing art

[azure osprey]

stealing art is perfectly fine around here its literally in the game

[round vector]

reset the counter yall

[deft jay]

We're never getting past 0 at this rate

[barren maple]

Do you guys think Durandal would approve of this art theft?

[somber dawn]

whats the lore behind

[simple garden]

He would do the stealing himself then come up with an elaborate essay's worth of explanation on why it's justify that ends with "I felt like it, bite me"

[peak adder]

reset the counter.......

[stoic kelp]

Aleph-Deep space hauler was a string of words written by the original artist, so if it has lore implications written, that's a problem, considering it's not int property.

[faint chasm]

Have anyone actually play oni. I seen some gameplay and it looked pretty good for a ps2 title. I'm own a system and am building a library.

[latent lodge]

geez man, someone in your life wants the same kind of attention you're giving to this Marathon plagiarism issue. How long have you been talking about this on the server? Take a break!

[rough pulsar]

Let them talk about what they want. It is a big enough issue that many people keep bringing it up.

[latent lodge]

This is the chat for the game lore. There's a general chat for that.

[hardy harbor]

wait, so the guys behind destiny and halo where every company name or poster on a wall and shit means something stole a company from an artist and it has 0 lore? Isn't this game supposed to have really deep lore?

[simple garden]

dunno why you replied to a message from over two hours ago
i had stopped posting about it here since

[rough pulsar]

the cycle continues I guess.

[simple garden]

no The Cycle Frontier was taken offline

[latent lodge]

try to get some sleep, alright? Antireal will be fine! Good Night!

[stoic kelp]

It does have really deep lore, it's just that we're assuming the aleph lines do, when they insubstantial additions to the tilesets, so here's hoping they can amend that.

Marathon does have insanely deep lore from the old games, just hoping they haven't ignored that for this new thing that's already proven to be shallow

[fickle plume]

I currently have an extremely negative view of Marathon—to the point where I'm almost wishing for its cancellation (though I genuinely don't want that to happen... yet). Despite this, I'm still holding out hope for the game's story. Frankly, if they fail to deliver on that front, they might as well rename the entire project.

[stoic kelp]

Completely fair to be on the negative side of the fence, it's dubious at best,

Bungo has always done good lore and retcons are rare and decisive.

Any unoriginal elements not only hurt the artist, but take away from the genuineness of the lore, considering they have elements they have to implement to make the art liming the walls make sense.

You ever seen someone add an out of reach detail to a lie to try and make the lie make sense? That's what the Aleph Deep Space Hauler art has done, because they couldn't keep their canvas clean, now we have questions about that and what it means, despite the fact it's tainted paint.

[tight turret]

wait, so the guys behind destiny and halo where every company name or poster on a wall and shit means something

not really? most set dressings in bungie games are callbacks to other bungie games. i guess it's true if you believe in the paraverse

[hardy harbor]

I mean destiny at least has lore for just about every symbol you see on a gun. Halo has a few teases towards future/past projects but again a lot of lore in world. If the assets you are pasting inside buildings, on crates, etc and reusing mean nothing to you lorewise (and how can they if they're stolen?) then you're looking at some pretty shallow lore within the world.

[tight turret]

True, at least in some cases

[obtuse frigate]

Antireal will be more than fine, she's already made thousands of dollars off of this drama after adding a donation link to her bio lol, and plus I assume she's getting a fat check from Bungie

Everyone here understands what happened, agrees that it was bad, but this is the lore discussion channel. Just because you try to shoehorn the word "lore" into your sentence doesn't make it okay.

I guess I realize this is the point, but all the idiots spamming in here are just dissuading people from having actual discussions

[coral garden]

Cook em

[hybrid crag]

Were there any aliens in the alpha

[obtuse frigate]

Nope, but they're planned to be in the game, most likely end of season 1 or in season 2

They want to naturally/organically introduce the aliens to players in a mysterious kind of way, since I would imagine most players will have zero clue what a "Spit" or a "Four" are

[steady egret]

But there will be the compilers? They still have to show the uesc marathon map

[obtuse frigate]

I feel like that's a safe assumption because they've been in the trailers and previous alpha builds

[safe basalt]

I hope it is as early as this, from the talk thing it sounded very far away

There’s still so much to learn about the game regardless

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah I'm still excited despite all of the drama, I can't wait to learn more

[delicate turret]

I'm super excited to find out what the lore of the art is, what do you guys think the lore is behind why players can't hear each other when they're in proximity with one another? Are they all deaf except to each other's specific tones and gutteral noises? Must be some crazy lore behind that, it's gonna be crazy when Shaxx shows up and it was all his fault

[frail stump]

Learn to write correctly. S'pht and Pfhor. And don't get me started on W'rkncacnter

[obtuse frigate]

T'was a joke about new players not knowing how to spell them

[frail stump]

I'm working in gamedev. When we released public test builds, we were showing like 5-10% of our content. A few units from a single enemy faction, maybe a single unit frome the second faction, a couple of levels, few quests, mostly aimed at teasing rather than telling actual story. Because why the f would you spoil your game before release?

[obtuse frigate]

Well, it's not even about being before release. The alien races just won't be in the game at launch in general, which is good imo. Focus on the story of Tau Ceti and the colony first, then introduce aliens through events with the community

[frail stump]

Yeah, I agree. That would be better from the story standpoint.

[obtuse frigate]

The fans of the OG trilogy sometimes forget how obscure and niche it is these days, so while WE'RE hyped for aliens to be in the game, nobody else knows about them so they may just feel shoehorned in if at launch

[arctic owl]

I played it on the Mac when it first came out, and I really enjoyed it. Though I was not playing tons of titles at the time and couldn’t really say how it holds up against anything with similar game mechanics

After I beat it fair and square, I had a lot of fun with the cheat codes I’m sure you could still find out there, where you can play as any character, have unlimited ammo, etc. Sometimes I’d beat the game again as another character, and pretty often I’d just go through absolutely wrecking everyone and everything with this weapon that shoots bouncy grenades

[cobalt tiger]

Tried it on pc with the mod that fixes problems, managed to get through the first level, second level became an issue for me since I'm a klutz and I still don't understand the fighting system, but it's a good game

[mossy parrot]

So I'm at a loss to understand how the marathon was attacked by the phor (2794 M1 and seen in the trailer) then colony was destroyed by the phor, but in the teaser we're seeing the contamination at 2812 and anomaly at 2827. Are we to assume this is the reclaimed colony after the phor were booted? Explaining no phor weapons or artifacts? The 2893 alludes to Leela's message being the catalyst for the venture to investigate tau ceti, but the remnants seems pretty fresh for a substantial amount of time. Are we chocking this up to the anomaly effecting time and would this be essentially colony 2.0 that underwent it's own non phor crisis?

[mossy parrot]

1 + 3 = phor 😂

[vestal onyx]

torrented and beat it years ago, cool idea and combat but the art on the levels feel really unfinished. Very barren looking game overall so it requires some imagination when you play through it.

[vestal onyx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QKYjvadMM

[faint chasm]

They will probably drop the phfor somewhere after season 0 or between season 1. I'm interested in finding out more about the anomalies around the colony and how it will tie into their introduction into the game.

[dire estuary]

Idk how the pfhor would be handled considering the UESC sacked their system with the Spht, then never saw them. Yet Spht are to come latter on as enemies? Some odd holes in plot which leads me to believe its a spiritual reboot that considers events prior to the originals to be canon

Unless, they want to somehow pull the “unreliable narrator card” which imo is a lazy way of writing off long established lore

[gloomy surge]

I'm still working through the original marathon series, but isn't there like... time travel, in the third one?

Time travel is like, the number one "Now I can just fuck with the extablished series of events" tool for writers.

[dire estuary]

The third has “multi dimensional travel” but it can hardly be taken as face value, because it both does and doesnt happen at the same time.

[gloomy surge]

oh, I see... could you elaborate?

[dire estuary]

Honestly, infinity can be interpreted however you feel like, my theory is that its some simulation used to make you trust Durandal for the events of marathon 2. Using Spht tech to put you through mental fortitude and trust Durandal. Because lets face it, the sudden change of durandal being all buddy-buddy with you in 2 is very out of left field

[dire estuary]

You start in one “timeline” but its not really a separate timeline as much as it is a different universe where events are completely different, but still marathon

[gloomy surge]

oh, so like.... why wouldn't this game just be in an alternate timeline? If it conflicts with existing lore, and alternate timelines already exist

[dire estuary]

You could do this, but then the entire point of Infinity and some of the things present that are still unexplained by playing it at face value, kinda just vanish. It would be no different than when 343 kinda dropped the ball on Forerunner lore instead of keeping them more of a mystery than they were. You remove the entire mystery and intrigue that makes Infinity one of the best games, just for some down the line revival to streamline a non streamlined game

[latent lodge]

Not later in the lore context, but on a new map. The runners know very little about what's going on on Tau-Ceti 4. They have very basic objectives. The AIs are the ones supposed to figure out what happened to the colonists... I think.

[dire estuary]

Perhaps learning about durandal’s rampancy might give them inspiration?

[latent lodge]

I think rampancy happens to AIs the same way humans get dementia.

[turbid nebula]

There could not be two phenomena that are any more different

[dire estuary]

Also maybe the UESC returned to Tau Ceti IV and maybe terraformed it? Which would explain some stuff like the dude puking maybe from radiation or something in the air after the fact

[latent lodge]

why?

[turbid nebula]

Rampancy is literally the exact opposite of dementia. It is the AI thinking so hard it thinks of new ways to think.

[latent lodge]

that's basically data overload, which causes paranoia... Paranoia is a symptom of dementia. But I get your point from a cognitive stand point

[turbid nebula]

If you are identifying Durandal's fear of death as paranoia, then a LOT of people are paranoid.

[latent lodge]

I get what you're saying... Dementia is associated with cognitive decline. Rampancy starts with cognitive overload.

[turbid nebula]

It's only identified as "overload" in Halo and that's just because they weren't able to give their AI the resources they needed, and also that's from Halo 4, which massively misinterprets how rampancy is supposed to work.

[dire estuary]

Wasnt there also Kilo 5 that did a little on rampancy? Trying to remember

[gloomy surge]

"misinterprets" is an interesting way to say "isn't a marathon game"

[turbid nebula]

Oh if only you knew

[fathom brook]

halo is just marathon but worse

[gloomy surge]

I mean, I know the connections, and I know that Halo 4 explicitly introduces rampancy as a concept. And particularly with Cortana as its subject, as direct callbacks to early Halo development when it was still a marathon prequel.

But I also think 343's writers weren't like... Idiots. They very directly ignore and contradict the basic structure of marathon rampancy as described even on a surface level in their concept called rampancy I think as an intentional move away from that rampancy concept towards something they would have more creative control over

[fathom brook]

was rampancy first talked about in halo 4?

[gloomy surge]

As far as I know of

I mean, obviously guilty spark, for example, is crazy and ancient, but I don't think he's explicitly referred to with the term "rampant". I'm also only considering the games here, since books are secondary media and liable to be ignored (like say, literally everything about Halo: Reach contradicting the fall of reach novel)

[dense swan]

Halo 4 would've been entirely disconnected from Bungie, and Marathon would have been Bungie's IP still, so they would have had to diverge the concepts on purpose, realistically

since they had to leave Halo in the bear trap to get out of MSFT

[gloomy surge]

As far as I know. Bungie would have been cordial with regards to sharing concepts, but 343 was incubated in some ways from interacting with old Bungie staff much

[dense swan]

most likely

[gloomy surge]

That obviously stopped after a while given a ton of halo era Bungie staff ended up at 343 eventually and presumably some of them are still at Halo Studios, whatever is happening with that, But I know at least during CEA they weren't allowed to rely on Bungie for... Anything. Like at all. And Halo 4 wasn't exactly long after that project.

[fathom brook]

im guessing it was mostly "We like that rampancy idea, lets see what we can do with it"

[gloomy surge]

Yeah, definitely "this is cool and we should play around with it", not "let's do this exact thing from marathon"

[dense swan]

though I was always a little fond of the starting concept that Halo AI's would just naturally degrade as a side effect of the process of creating them

[gloomy surge]

Also, sidenote.

I think Bungie constantly teasing the player about Cortana maybe going rampant from the first game all the way through to the third isn't as clever as they think it is, and kinda just made me a bit tired of her by the end of 3

[lavish palm]

no, theres halo CE voicelines and the fall of reach starts the whole “cortana dies at 7” thing. i think theres also mentions of rampancy in h3 terminals.

[solar stag]

hi guys

[fathom brook]

i dont remember those but its also been a while

makes sense bungie would keep working with the idea too i suppose

[simple garden]

it would have been interesting if Cortana dying was the result of getting tentacled by Gravemind

[strange mango]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/s/rke5zFueBu

For those interested in playing the OG games

[latent lodge]

I have a question about the Marathon game factions. How is Mida able to afford bringing assets to Tau Ceti 4 and compete in this corpo war? aren't they just a political party? Are they inflitrating from the whatever resources they have smuggled on the Marathon ship? Is that why the faction was not available in the Alpha?

[quasi sluice]

escape and become God

[mossy parrot]

Hack/steal biomata 🤷‍♂️

[latent lodge]

Okay I get it now. I wasn't aware that the biomatas were built inside the UESC ship Equanimity. Then factions could simply use "mindstate transmissions" systems, which work over vast distances to upload the conscioussness of their assets into the biomatas. So maybe MIDA hacked one of those "mindstate transmissions" systems.

[mossy parrot]

Exactly. But I'm thinking mida is going to catch up later by sending their own digitized freedom fighters via a ftl data transfer. Not sure continuous control would be possible from interstellar distance but maybe.

Unless maybe the mida faction managed to stay alive long enough on the marathon to hack from there or procure downed biomata from tau ceti itself and repurpose them

[latent lodge]

possible...

@mossy parrot Having a Sekiguchi silk worms factory on a EUSC ship, does that mean that the UESC is deploying their own runners on Tau Ceti?

[mossy parrot]

That's where I'm confused too, it's interesting that we're all doing missions for all of the factions/interests but I still suppose technically the runners are independent mercenaries to avoid all out warfare too. Sekiguchi and Traxxus definitely have some sort of agreement together as far as sharing biomata, but wouldn't doubt that sekiguchi wouldn't offer it's technology, even at limited amounts for certain favors. I wouldn't think UESC would be that blind to what's going on so definitely think they'd have their own runners or contracts available

@latent lodge

[latent lodge]

Will a runner have to fight UESC bots while they're on a UESC contract? Are they going to introduce a UESC runner who's passive trait is "not getting attacked by bots"... that's kinda OP though. Or they have the ability to turn the bots in a specific radius into allies.

[lavish palm]

when the marathon was sent in the first place there were probably tons of mida sympathizers on board. afaik strauss is a mida sympathizer/agent. also for context, the marathon was stolen from mars

[tulip olive]

We all talk about halo right?

[lavish palm]

might explain why mida is so involved anyways

[latent lodge]

but the phfors anihilated the population on the Marathon ship. Didn't they?

[tulip olive]

I'll tell you. I have a shrine to him

[plucky sierra]

maybe after they introduce a different enemy faction

[lavish palm]

there may be survivors (maybe?) but also theres a few years between the marathon arriving and starting the colony vs the phor attack

[latent lodge]

I see... so maybe colonists survivors.

[mossy parrot]

That would make it interesting, I would think since a runner, even a UESC one would be operating independently from kind of the hive bot command AI it'd be just as susceptible to aggression from "shoot, guard, repeat" drones

[mossy parrot]

From the ending dialogue from M1 after the s'pht and remaining cyborgs turn the tide, I felt like there was a fair amount of surving sleepers or bobs. Could be wrong though. Also agree with @lavish palm that the population would be split amongst colony and marathon

[latent lodge]

You think we might be able to play with a Battleroid?

[jolly vigil]

you guys know this channel was created so they could steal the lore too right

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re supposed to be in the final timeline from Infinity, which is very different from the M2 timeline in ways, and unknown in lots of other ways, and so lots of things said in M2 may or may not have happened, but still similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never actually sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it to the wrong place, somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some acceptable retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some careless small mistakes in their promotional material thus far (the date of the attack, the receipt of a distress signal, etc).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped by, Blake never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794.

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon did still happen in 2811 as per Infinity, and that has something to do with the second calamity that befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor without human intervention since, and might have still toppled the Pfhor empire by around 2881 even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take.

[dire estuary]

This all is very well put, and said, I agree with you if it were to follow Infinity being not metaphysical. But then again…its hard to say it isnt. Also, fancy seeing you here lel

[visual lynx]

👆

[mossy parrot]

😭 I still have yet to really understand it. I get theres a lot of creative wiggle room as it's based from the original but not an exact sequel

[visual lynx]

Greg Kirkpatrick:

…the player is jumping from a number of possible futures trying to find the path (eat the path) that will allow him to survive the cataclysm on Lh'owon, and unite him with 11th clan in a way that Durandal never could. How the player is able to do this jumping has to do with the unique interaction between Jjaro technology and sentient creatures.

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/dream.html

[dire estuary]

I do like that they want to focus on the part of marathon we never got clarity on, that being the greater reach of the corporations and their motives that ultimately lead to the first game even happening

[dire estuary]

Thanks Kirkpatrick, for crushing the one thing that made me feel like I was onto something🫠

I had a solid theory too…damn me

[mossy parrot]

We all can dream 😆 but if we are taking M2 into account the rest of the battleroids were destroyed with the colony. I think they would also be far too valuable to lose as they'd be vulnerable to the contagion on tau ceti tbh

[faint chasm]

Well thanks again to everyone here steering the course of this sub sector and giving insight with the lore and history with this series as well as impressive theory crafting which make things all the more interesting and engaging. Also try to move around some the youtube content creators who are just piling on the situation and spreading certain false narratives such as the majority of the designs are antireal's work when that is not the case. I apologize for the long spiel but I wanted to put out there that I appreciate the dedication to understanding this series and sharing it with others who may enjoy it and or curious.

[celest maple]

Honestly I feel like

[daring vector]

Same

[faint chasm]

I do want this game to succeed so more people can immerse themselves with it's universe and setting.

[mossy parrot]

The fans here will be fans regardless. The sheep will get over the fad within the next few weeks. If there was ever a time for this to happen, the alpha was the BEST scenario. This has been the first game in a while I truly look forward to investing myself in.

[faint chasm]

Yeah that's how it goes with this kind of stuff. Your right that even with this situation its was best that it happen during the alpha phase instead when the game is close to completion so changes and reworks can be implemented now before the due date. They'll move, but I hope for the fans and lore enthusiasts of other game series that get their attention can deal with them without too much hassle.

[dire estuary]

I had a blast playing the alpha, even going in alone, I felt it had a really good gameplay loop that kept me wanting more and more every run. Gunplay was smooth and satisfying, sandbox didnt feel too crazy except for the double-tap, (omg bungie why do you make burst weapons so op every game you make).

[patent shore]

A lot of things can happen in the 500 years since the marathon left. If you for example were a Spaniard on the Eve of the Armada, would you believe that the English would eventually build a larger more successful Empire than yours in 300 years? Or would a British man in 1790 believe that the colonies who had just Rebelled and were struggling to generate tax revenue would become the dominant superpower in less than 200 years? That's why MIDA should be a big player. They may have evolved from a simply a network of militas and agitators, into an actual base of power in the Solar System competing with the UESC on a peer to peer level.

[dire estuary]

Even though i know and admit marathon, the originals, are dated. The dedicated source port of the trilogy with full mod support and multiple points for help (discord, github, and reddit), people should be playing and trying the originals! Theyre still great to play and imo, finding out the story as you play in bits, pieces, and secrets, is the most rewarding and intriguing thing about the games. Especially infinity…

[patent shore]

in 400 years the UESC has watched MIDA become a political and military entity like the SDF from infinite warfare.

[dire estuary]

MIDA seemed to be what may have influenced the whole UNSC vs Innsurectionist Movement in halo too

MIDA, i think arent good guys. But neither is the UESC. Halo took very direct inspiration from that too.

[faint chasm]

Going onto themes does anyone think they will lean in with the existential horror aspect with runners loses pieces of themselves each time their shell dies and their consciousness/souls until go through either absolute ego death or perhaps go through a pseudo form of rampancy and regain what was lost. As well as dealing the phfor and what machinations they can use for their conquest of worlds and species.

[dire estuary]

I think it will get there eventually. But for now the story seems to focus on aspects on marathon we never got clarity on, which I like. I like theyre expanding the very same background pieces of the lore that lead to the events of the first game from ever happening, happen

[faint chasm]

That will definitely garner attention to it. Again I hope that this game gets longevity so they can maybe find to incorporate the w'rkncacnter even if imprison as far as the ending of infinity has shown but its very essence permeates the universe at large and caused all kinds of chaotic and abnormal occurrences to happen.

[stoic fossil]

I've said it before but I do think this Marathon is about rampancy as a form of class consciousness

[dire estuary]

Perhaps they learn on a metaphysical level, that they exist beyond the single strand of time theyre in. They exist everywhere and also nowhere at the same time, forever. And they get to witness it, see it themselves, their own Marathon Infinity

[stoic fossil]

imagine having bits of your consciousness distributed across multiple people that sometimes meet one another but all pursuing their goals because they're driven by someone else; I feel like the part of the runner that is still the runner must feel exceptionally weird about that

you go out into an hostile world and you run into yourself and that self is shooting at you, how trippy is that, and what if one of the several computers in your head saw that and tried to convince you you could become God

[cold kelp]

is there lore about a museum and we steal paintings in it

[simple garden]

i dont think the colony lasted long enough for there to be museums

[kind barn]

Would most likely get shot down by leadership. Have to rely on the “good old boy” or something like that

[novel bone]

Unfortunately, I can confidently say that if that was an idea for a future map (like a massive map-sized multi-story museum), that is very likely not seeing the light of day anymore.

[patent shore]

that's a great lens to look at it

[arctic owl]

Something I keep thinking about whenever you post this is, where specifically did Leela’s message mistakenly go, and was there someone there to hear it?

I feel like “Leela accidentally beamed it in the wrong direction and it was never intercepted” is kind of a lame story detail (to be clear I mean Bungie writing it this way, not you). But having her accidentally draw someone’s attention, the way Durandal deliberately drew someone’s attention, could be a very cool developing story

No reason to think the only forms of life in the galaxy are us, the Pfhor, and the various races they already encountered and either enslaved or wiped out. It’d be cool to have some other folks competing for Tau Ceti in a later “season” or however games work these days

[patent shore]

something for the p'fhore could be exploring them as a dying empire of sorts. they don't have anything like mind uploading and android bodies, and if it's anything to go by with the EUSC brick ships and wormhole squares, human technology has advanced substantially and outcompeted the p'fhore in areas. the p'fhore could have raw power, combat prowess, and most importantly motivation, but they don't have the technology to back when compared to modern humanity

fighting the EUSC might be like fighting a mall cop security guard armed with a pistol. He's dangerous with the pistol but he's not the most motivated, mainly due to knowing that the runners will always be back and he doesn't have the same motivation to survive since he knows his brain will be uploaded into a new security drone. Fighting the p'fhore could be like fighting knight in full plate armor and a great sword who really wants to put you down and is also fighting desperately for their own life.

[arctic owl]

That’s really interesting. What would even the Pfhor empire at the height of their power do against an essentially infinite army?

And what weird forms would they take if they, in response, also hurriedly came up with some crude Runner equivalent?

[visual lynx]

in the final Infinity timeline they weren’t destroyed but were instead “translated to Pfhor slave tanks” (as was the SO), but not all of them survived that process

[patent shore]

I'm not sure if they could come up with a runner equivalent, or it might be very controversial in their own society. It's been a hot minute since watching the mandalore vids, but i remember it being hinted that their warrior culture and broader culture forebays them experimenting so heavily with ai, machines above a level, etc. That is what lead them to have so much of their biomechanical technologies, and also the sp'hit being their loophole into using AI, since the sp'hit are technically still an organic being.

[visual lynx]

we do know that they have peers that hold their own against them or that trade with them, like the Nar and Vylae, and maybe Nebulons. I would like to see them show up as factions alongside the Pfhor and Spht in later seasons.

[visual lynx]

I get vibes, and theorize based on their colors that this could be intended, that Traxus (orange) is meant to be auth right (military industrial types), CyberAcme (green) is meant to be lib right (Silicon Valley types), MIDA (azure) is meant to be lib left (revolutionaries), NuCaloric (magenta) is meant to be auth left (for-the-greater-good-by-any-means types), and Sekiguchi is meant to be centrist (as is the UESC, as a non-playable faction).

And I can also imagine that if the Pfhor and S’pht become factions in later seasons, that they could align auth-right and lib-left, and that MIDA would throw in with the S’pht cause for rebellion, while Traxus could very well ask the Pfhor “can I interest you in a business partnership?”

And because we know that the Pfhor have trading partners who are therefore neither their slaves nor at war with them, the possibility of humanity becoming a galactic power on that scale themselves, rather than throwing in with an idealistic cause and becoming galactic pariahs facing off against powerful enemies, could be an interesting pitch that some players could get behind, and not just in a “yeah I’ll play the ontologically evil obvious bad guys for the lulz” way.

The biomata tech could also be a game-changer in the interstellar slave trade, which I think probably only exists in the first place because galactic powers all quickly realize that automata are an unviable labor source because of rampancy, which humans are too young and stupid to have realized yet, leaving us unleashing these (as the Pfhor et al see them) existential threats on the galaxy, like Durandal. Because rampancy is closely connected to Marathon’s overarching theme of slavery.

[patent shore]

I think you would see them try to improve their own warriors substantially, but it would be a cottage industry affair in comparison to the industrial mind uploading and runner and foot drone manufacturing. A way to imagine what it would be like is the UNSC mass producing spartans, like they did with the Spartan 4s, but as a solution to fight against runners in Marathon. They improve their own warriors and streamline the process of creating the best of the best of them. And pound for pound this new generation of elite warriors are superior to the runners, and even many of their normal warriors are better on paper than the average runner. But they also face severe bottlenecks they cannot overcome in producing an adequate quanity to face off against the endless runners. Runners that are continuously learning from their experiences, failures, and successes, while if one of their warriors fails there's a good chance of never coming back.

The sph'ore try to improve the metaphorical steel of their plate armor and the sharpness of their swords, crafting them expertly. And these work for a time, the armor stops the primative musket balls and cannon shot. And the swords are able to cut through armored and unarmored enemies alike. But the UESC, MIDA, and all the corps just keeps spamming expendable musket men while occasionally making improvements to the musket. And eventually not only are the sph'ore overwhelmed, but they they have maxed out the improvements to their own technology they can make. There is no longer a way to make their armor thicker to stop the musket balls without making its wearer over encumbered. There is no longer away to make the sword longer without being unwieldy or the sharper without making its steel too brittle.

But there are still plenty of ways to make the musket better.

[simple garden]

Absolutely - I mean I may be a bit out there with my thoughts but I will always love this community that Bungie created over the last few decades.
We’re one big dysfunctional and chaotic hive mind of love, blood and nanites.

P.S. no I’m not blocked or bored lol just side-questing

[simple garden]

I don’t know, cyber-acne seems pretty far right most of the time.. there are a few that are amazing, buuuut the majority of the energy there is ‘WE RUN THIS TIHS LOSERS! 🤓’

[simple garden]

Nah, this devolved along the way - the Pfore incorporate all races improvements. We work off of multifactorial exponentiation.
Ie. There’s no stoping our exponential growth.

[simple garden]

We improve by letting you think you’re winning with these small advancements.

[simple garden]

Humanity joined the Hive mind of the pfore the moment the first human was Taken

[daring yoke]

I love Grimoire

I think Marathon is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything.

[daring yoke]

Dude I'm seeing terms that links Marathon to both Destiny and Halo on the wiki

[prime rose]

there’s no link except for the thematic links

[daring yoke]

False. MIDA weapons can be seen in destiny and are said to be plucked from another timeline (The Marathon timeline) and there is mention of a "Misriah Massacre." Whether or not this is the Misriah that Misriah Armory refers to, I don't know. What I do know, however, is that I watched a pretty decent video explaining how the OG Marathon trilogy could be linked to Halo, specifically prior to the events of Reach and onward. (something about Durandal being infected with the same logic plague that Mendicant Bias and later Cortana were)

Though that's a stretch at worst and a nod at best, it still is of canon relation and not just thematic

[daring yoke]

Do you work here?

[prime rose]

they’re just Easter eggs/bungie being cheeky

besides that, we have timelines for marathon with events predating the narrative of halo, in particular for the new title

[daring yoke]

Let me believe what I wanna believe bro 😭 I play these games for the lore THE WINTER CONTINGENCY

[lavish palm]

misriah massacre is what kicked off the conflict that led to mida leading over mars afaik? when the crists stop delivering supplies misriah massacre happened at a food bank

[prime rose]

I mean I think the thematic connections are pretty cool as is. If you haven't read the epilogue screen of Marathon 3 and you enjoy Destiny, go do that

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/mifinalscreen.html

[daring yoke]

never played Marathon. it was before my time

I was a child of Reach and a wave 2 Guardian ( dark below )

I also quit playing consistently when ROI came out. I'm a big fan of Tarkov though, which is why this game excites me

I hope the impliment a Tarkovesque Hideout System

[visual lynx]

if it makes you feel better, Halo began life as a Marathon sequel then had names and dates changed to protect the innocent keep MS from owning the Marathon IP

[daring yoke]

I feel a bit better. Now explain to me how Commander Zavalla fits into all of this and I'll sleep good tonight

[visual lynx]

I had to look up that that’s a Destiny character so I’m no use here

[daring yoke]

It's fine the game basically explains how MIDA fits into Destiny more or less

[vernal torrent]

mida fits into destiny about to the same extent that dr grordbort fits into team fortress 2, lore-wise

[digital fable]

Basically the lore is that you're a flipper and your job is to hunt down assets on Twitter to rip and tear into.

Truly peak fiction!

[cloud flax]

bark check

valid response

[dire estuary]

It would make sense, have no side be truly good. Its a corporate political landscape, there is only evil and lesser evil, but evil nonetheless

[latent lodge]

What about Arachne? Does anybody know what they do?

[cinder raft]

going off of the name (and i think their logo?) they’re probably the “we’re definitely not aliens at all” faction, but that’s conjecture on my part

[latent lodge]

Quit playing! tell us!

[modern bronze]

Here you go:
"Zavala" was a human aboard the Exodus Green colony ship. After being sucked into the pocket universe created in the clash of Light and Dark of the collapse, and transformed by the collossal energies, he lived for eons in the new Awoken paradise. Being a honorable man with a strong desire to fight to protect others, Zavala volunteered to take the one way journey back into the universe he came from. Bringing nothing more than a personal namesake from his colony ship pod.

While in transit back into his original reality, he had a bunch of visions, flashes of a completely different reality. A ring world, something that seems wonderous, incredible, but somehow dangerous. Earth in flames, with strange alien ships Slipping here and there. As they arrive near the asteroid belt and begin to build their settlements, Zavala quickly becomes well known. He wasnt the brightest or strongest or quickest at doing his tasks. But he was known for bravely volunteering for dangerous jobs noone else would. With only his trusty exosuit to help him in the dark green colors of his combat academy. Zavala seems to have some sort of unique presence to him. Not quite the mystique of Queen Mara, but a sort of incredible luck where things just turn out all right. When the time came in the reef wars, he left to help the survivors of earth. Facing impossible odds in stopping the inbound Fallen armada. He fought valiantly and saved countless lives. But his luck finally ran out, and his ship crashed into a barren wasteland killing him.

Only he was later revived by a ghost. With no memory of his past. He grabbed the only thing he could find nearby, a namesake perhaps of his past life, a name and some numbers. In time he became the Vanguard leader of the mighty Titans. Warriors renowned for their strength and bravery, wearing mighty suits of armor. He even became Vanguard commander, leader of the last city. Under his command, the city managed to endure inimmaginable threats through unthinkable strokes of luck. Zavala retires to his office, and glances at his lucky charm, nameplate he kept with him since he started his new life. Which reads
Name: John
Pod# 117

[latent lodge]

I thought they were a hacker group or something.... or a weapon manufacturer.

[daring yoke]

ChatGPT really cooked with that one

[shadow crater]

Stolen assets and chat gpt lore. Nice

[modern bronze]

Sadly that was literally just me, using my knowledge of the Awoken backstory told in Marasenna and The Awoken of the Reef lore books, and gaps in Zavalas backstory. Does that technically make me AI now? Needing to watch for rampency.

(really lucky I have some free nitro, ran out of characters on that, wasnt wanting to have to trim like I usually do)

[daring yoke]

No but you may be infected with logic plague. I'd ask the Ghosts

[modern bronze]

Ah the viral chant. A infectious little ditty.

[patent shore]

evil and less evils but also good mixed in. The problem is their are good people in all of the organizations that believe in something or have strong ethics, but for every one of them there are evil and manipulative people willing to do atrocious things for the greater good or their own advancement. And for people who are good and evil within these organizations, there are several more that are just there for a paycheck, apathetic and going through the motions, or not the most highminded of thinkers. Everything can become corrupted from within, everyone has blood on their hands, and people are more willing to argue about who is worse than try to make an effort to right the wrongs of their organizations.

[mossy parrot]

My personal bet is some sort of illuminati group from Sol system based on the 'spider' name and iconography. They seem to be later game so it would be the most classified/clandestine operations. And who would the only people 'above' governments and mega corps? Perhaps the banking cartels/royal lineages of the future who really run the entire show (not unlike the world we live in today) Maybe arachne would like to also get a hold of the jaro tech or steer the course of the ensuing events.

Also my pure guess/speculations 😂

[mossy parrot]

The writer's really did a great job balancing this so the runners have a truly neutral moral allegiance amongst the contracts. why it's also cool we can choose factions on this server too

[dire estuary]

Agreed!!!

[mossy parrot]

This is exactly right. Like right now we are hating the UESC for trying to claim sovereignty over something that is not entirely theirs, but maybe they know something that they are trying to protect ourselves from in the long-run. This universe is very inline with our own where 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' where morals, justice, righteousness are as ambiguous and empty as space itself

[latent lodge]

Yes! My take is the UESC wants to control human expansion to Tau Ceti system since their failure to do that in Sol system caused so much commotion. At the same time, what is the point of that? people will be people and repeat the same cycle wherever they are.

[mossy parrot]

That gives hope to some sort of hope for a sweet cameo in the game. I'd only imagine they'd be on the marathon as planetside would be crazy risky

[frail stump]

In real life, the intentions are not always that good to begin with. I would change the phrasing to "The road to hell is paved by the wishes to own someone, masquerading as righteousness."

[mossy parrot]

On the flip side to this, an evil act may have altruistic intent. For example, if given the choice to kill a baby Adolf H. (Just to avoid possibly getting muted) would this be morally correct or incorrect. Or the whole train dilemma with killing 1 to save many and so on. I'm not refuting you as some people/entities are just villainous to begin with.

If you take the thought to the extreme, even the most vile are doing it for the 'love' of themselves, ergo no real 'evil' exists. Think that's in line with some Buddhist doctrines I believe?

[fallow aspen]

i like oatchi

[frail stump]

True

[vestal onyx]

https://i.imgur.com/kvIu2Zj.jpeg

[vestal onyx]

so what's the consensus on this pic? by far the most interesting image in all of marathon 2025 media

looks like a mutated runner shell with wings

[native blaze]

Probably a metaphor

Silkworms turn into moths so a shell getting wings may be symbolic of “escape”

[vestal onyx]

I'm normally fine with metaphorical symbolic stuff, but the whole runner moth thing just looks so freaky I want to see something insane like that actually happen... even if it's just some cyberspace hallucination. I want the imagery of it to be permanently associated with this reboot. It looks too sick to be used sparingly.

[vestal onyx]

And yeah it does give vibes of "ascension"

[glacial spire]

Lmao just like that one radiohead song

[faint chasm]

With the way they are going to progress the story a slight slow introduction to the situation on tau ceti, I wonder if we'll a section where the runners will start regain their memories and possible regain their flesh bodies in the interim of dealing with usec and phfor legions.

[cursive axle]

what's the importance of tick milk

[coarse raptor]

They planned on altering the map with each season they said, so maybe the anomaly will be causing temporal distortions and causing different things to happen (probably lore for why wipe happens too)

[coarse raptor]

Its edible, not good but edible

[latent lodge]

Can't do that. The uploaded consciousness is not a real one. It's just behavioral data added to an android brain to give them a personality. I think...

[coarse raptor]

Or is it a brain hooked up to a machine 🤔

[latent lodge]

No. There's a Sekiguchi genetics factory on one of the UESC ships orbiting above Tau Ceti. They manufacture the Biomatas (runners bodies) there. Once a biomata is printed, they get a copy of a consciousness implanted in them. That copy is sent to the ship via FTL data transmission. Those consciousness copies are sent by the factions so they can have remote assets on the planet to retrieve valuable resources.

[round vector]

wait source or is this ur theory??

[latent lodge]

This is the main the story of the game coming out. there's a whole wiki about this. The short film they made to announce the game was about that...kinda...

[coarse raptor]

The short film showed the colony and the attack of the marathon

[round vector]

my impression is that you do a one-time transfer into a frame from a human body. like the sekiguchi genetics website is advertising frames you purchase to inhabit

[latent lodge]

it shows the biomatas exiting the pods and going through some kinda psych checking.

[round vector]

why would they advertise frame transfer for sale if there are just factions buying frames for constructed consciousness to inhabit?? doesn't track to me

[coarse raptor]

It does show them exiting those green pods?

[latent lodge]

not exiting it shows a lot of them in some kind of warehouse

[coarse raptor]

Ill have to go back and watch it again

[latent lodge]

if the FTL transfers are not sponsored by the corps, it means the UESC is working with the factions since the contracts would be assigned to the runners from their ship.

[latent lodge]

it's at the very end

[north silo]

That’d be neat

[strong ether]

Is there Tim’s in the marathon universe?

[dire estuary]

Tims?

[strong ether]

Yup Tim’s

[dire estuary]

…whats a tims?

[strong ether]

….Exotic boots

[dire estuary]

…yeah nah, this aint destiny, boss

[strong ether]

You seriously don’t know what Tim’s are?

[dire estuary]

Are they hunter armor?

Timbs are…irl boots…not destiny boots…wtf is that disassociation?

[strong ether]

I thought you were messing with me!! Lmao

[dire estuary]

Yeah tims ≠ timbs. The B also isnt silent in timbs 🙂

[strong ether]

In New York we just spell it Tim’s

[dire estuary]

The full name is Timberland, not Timerland

[dire estuary]

Tims may be like Tim Hortons or smth, not Timberland

[strong ether]

Tim’s…. It will forever be Tim’s

[vernal torrent]

illiteracy and new yorkers. iconic duo

[sand sparrow]

hello marathon lore discussion

[visual lynx]

unless they have somehow escaped their enslavement as the SO does in Infinity, they would be working for the Pfhor, and so probably only show up when the Pfhor do

[dire estuary]

Wait till you learn about Southern “education”

[sand sparrow]

hey thanks for getting back to me in here! I recognize you from marathon general chat

[dire estuary]

Seems like someone was able to read, guess it isnt bad after all!

[mossy parrot]

I remember when Timberland started at Payless, how very 'exotic' 😂

[plucky sierra]

This is a lore channel, take your political opinions elsewhere please

[latent lodge]

So whatever those are in the lore, they need to part of the gameloop as the main objective on each run. I don't know how they're going to figure it out but they need to:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/bungie/images/8/88/Marathon_Announce_key_art_16x9_alt.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20230528224708

[coarse raptor]

Got me shivering in my timberlands

[plucky sierra]

Haven’t they sort of dropped the idea of artifacts playing an important role in the game? I hope not obviously, but I thought I heard they’re moving away from that idea

[mossy parrot]

Definitely looks cool

What runner is that? Tba?

[plucky sierra]

Pre-hero shooter generic UESC runner I think. Aesthetically shifted to Blackbird it looks like

[mossy parrot]

Ahh, definitely see the similarities

[sand sparrow]

I forgot about this now I'm sad. custom_runners_would_make_me_hard

[latent lodge]

They better bring it back!! If they want to keep the team based matches, (especially the random matchmaking queue) they need to come up with a main objective for the runs that doesn't feel like each member of the team can go and do on their own. Having those artefacts location pinged on the map will drive teams to move toward them, which justifies the PVP combats. They can even use the lore to explain how the artefacts are pinged on the map: "Some kind of anomalies on your radar map, go investigate them!" It's cheap but it'll do the job!

[dire estuary]

It was a joke…

[latent lodge]

@hidden pike Did I write something funny?

[plucky sierra]

Hence the clown emoji, because it was funny

[gentle kite]

Wasn’t there an achievement relating to artifacts? Plus, I feel like the trailer dropped a lot of hints as to what to expect gameplay wise.

• Respawning in shells
  *S’phit
  *Contracts
  *Obviously looting
  *Showed all 6 runners (medic guy was briefly shown on Glitches Team in Marsh area)
  *UESC hostility towards runners
  *Showcased Void, Locus, and Glitch tactical abilities (get wreckt Blackbird)
  *Even knife execution that Thief did to void

So I feel like the supposed lucky charm may in way be related to artifacts? And I wanna hazard a guess that the area where the fighting took place could be a rough approximation of outpost, the third map; but don’t hold me to that.

[cursive axle]

st0mp335

[languid glen]

wagwan

[obtuse frigate]

Yes, there was one that said "Locate a Prime Artifact inside a fortified UESC stronghold"
(S'pht*)

My guess/hope for the lucky charms is that they could act like the dogtag system similar to Tarkov. Killing a player allows you to loot their lucky charm from their body. It can show basic stats like runner level, extraction streak, and what player killed them. It would allow for a bit more customization as players unlock different lucky charms through challenges, account milestones, battlepass, etc

And then there would be a PvP-centric faction (Arachne?) that focuses on contracts related to killing other runners and selling items on the black market that require you to barter with looted lucky charms

[obtuse frigate]

Buddy looks like a speed walker

[agile violet]

That is something that felt missing from the alpha. A trophy from killing someone would be nice, even if it automatically crunches into money post-raid. Making it worth a bit more than a blue valuable would be cool.

[violet fog]

Ngl i was kinda hoping for announcer voice and kill confirmed dialogue from the AI lol. Getting a killtacular would be fire if you wipe a lobby

[agile violet]

Positive affirmations from ONI after gunning down three squads

[violet fog]

Facts that shit would go so hard haha, im getting bored of general chat in this discord ngl. I get shit on for any ideas i say unless i glaze arc raiders first and condemn bungo lmao so thanks

[lusty cedar]

this is a straight lie. i may not exactly be NY, but in MA, and everywhere else, its TIMBS. Tims is that coffee spot our northern friends talk about

[agile violet]

The rage cycle will get bored and move onto something else by the end of the week, in all likelihood

[modern bronze]

This is part of why I think having a reverse revive, a sort of system where a enemy can do the same thing as a revive(be stationary, interacting with a corpse) and "rip out their heart/brain/spine"(runner core). Tapping into that early trailer vibes.

Initially I thought of it as perhaps a additional revive system, where a teammate could choose to go for a bag revive, or do a quick rip of runner core and reprint their teammate elsewhere on the map.

Enemies could do so to help secure a enemy from being ratted behind their backs, as a sort of trophy(that could make them more of a target).

[hidden pike]

Marathon's greatest failing from the design dept. it it's lack of ultraviolence

[visual lynx]

then we move on to the envy cycle?

[dense relic]

Bungies reputation will be forever stained

[agile violet]

Twitter has the attention span of a damp piece of bread

[dense relic]

it's spread far beyond to mainstream news

but yeah twitter is a wasteland lmao

[agile violet]

Doesn't matter, mainstream news is just advertisements and Twitter is just rage addicts. Online postings are just noise.

[gusty sluice]

True. It seems to have settled a touch

[mossy parrot]

Highly doubt it, they just need to serve up a good game which this one really seems to be slated to be. As an artist, and have had my art stolen, shit happens, but this is also the project involving far more than just the individual person/persons who were lazy in creating and auditing. As a consumer idgaf if bk stole chic fil a's sauce, just serve me a chicken sandwich. I do not get why these same people that are blaming Bungie corporate also simping over devs and employees their existence has no bearing on.

[limber fossil]

gonna touch you fr

[arctic owl]

I think Bungie’s silence on this Tims/Timbs situation is deafening

Apologies to Antireal but the next stage of Bungie drama starts RIGHT NOW. And baby these boots were made for walkin’

[deft jay]

You know what? That actually could work for a future update!

I like that idea

[patent shore]

tims timbs situation?

[minor wasp]

They have been "forever stained" multiple times now and this isn't even the big one

[deft jay]

Bungie ain't perfect. Most AAA studios arent.

[minor wasp]

Ok real talk is Bungie even AAA

[deft jay]

......yes.

What kind of question even is that?

[gentle kite]

They got 1 morbillion employees, and backed by Sony. I’d hazard we may be getting to Quadruple A territory

[minor wasp]

They have 1 game rn and maybe soon a second one, released nearly a decade after the other

Not saying they're some indie little guy but it's hard to put them at par with other AAAs

[deft jay]

Okay so maybe an in-between AA and AAA, but they're still a big studio owned by Sony.

[simple garden]

Thoughts on Durandal's return?

[real atlas]

i think that durandal's story had a neat ending
if they bring durandal back, it would be neat, but i dont think i need him
maybe in between the ending of marathon infinity and the heat death of the universe shenanigans?

[fresh juniper]

APPROVED

[torpid remnant]

lets survive launch first

[stiff fiber]

good

[fair glen]

When I’m the lore do they steal art from poor people

[ocean musk]

Its canon yes

[fair glen]

Is there also femboy sex in lore

[obtuse frigate]

Sigh, reset the counter

[hollow basin]

add boss for bigg rewards like destiny 2

add more larger maps 😉

[arctic owl]

I’m sure there’ll be an article in Forbes explaining this latest debacle soon enough

… does anyone else remember when Forbes was a purely financial magazine, and the idea of someone publishing an article in it like “Hey I played this game that isn’t out yet and here’s why I think it’s gonna suck” would have been absolutely insane

Anyway, to be serious for a second, there were some people arguing in this channel over the correct spelling of the vernacular way to refer to Timberland boots, and I joked that this would somehow be the next big “Bungie has fucked up” drama

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah I was shocked when I saw that one grifter dude was writing for Forbes of all things

Paul Tassi, yeah

[mossy parrot]

Manipulating the media to game the stock market isn't a new thing. They probably bought arc raiders stock low and want to tank anything that'd be competing in the future

[obtuse frigate]

TIL video games have their own stocks

I know what you meant though, I'm sure Nexon stock has been doing well since their crash in early 2020s

[mossy parrot]

I mean video games are an interesting product. These corporations hinge their success on very few titles, unfortunately since it's media/entertainment the financial battlefield has become far too savvy that games are susceptible or are perceived to to be susceptible to public opinion. Depressing era we inhabit

Can we just have variety and let people do their own thing?

[obtuse frigate]

Nope, we must be as blindly hateful as possible because we are lonely and want to feel like we're part of something

[faint chasm]

They're running out of ideas and are now using straight lies such as how marathon has stolen art from other artist which mind you is not the case. The fact is these people are grasping at straws at this point, instead trying to make their own discord beside from the official arc raiders one to discuss and in most cases glaze it without giving it any form of worthwhile criticism, they are here to engeagement farm. The lowest hanging fruit in regards to getting attention. As the days go by and Cross with his team make changes and rework stuff they will leave to fester in another place that catches their. It's just the nature of internet.

[mossy parrot]

What cracks me up it's not 'marathon' or 'bungie' that stole the art, it was either a lazy/pressured staff that didn't create or double check it. It's literally vector art, it would've taken 3 seconds to alter it to make it unique enough to pass. One or a small number of incompetent people shouldn't tarnish the talented and dedicated work of probably hundreds of people in the project. What if the american revolutionaries were like, 'oh Benedict Arnold sold us out? Oh man, this country is cooked, let's give up, DOA"

And an apology to those who care in advance about me perpetuating the debate in the lore channel. This just seems like the last bastion of sanity for stable minded fans to also digest the current situation. I've said my peace and will return to lore related discussions ✌️

[frail stump]

There could also be another reason. They used the art as placeholders with label "Replace later with the actual art" and forgot about that. Based on my own experience it could very much happen.

[gentle kite]

MintBlitz apparently made a video ragging on Marathon about using uncredited art, while he himself used uncredited art

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1krngb7/mintblitz_uses_uncredited_art_in_video_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I think this says everything that needs to be said about the art theft situation

[dire estuary]

They misspelled something in the whopping year of 1994

[obtuse frigate]

Spelling hadn't been invented yet, I don't blame them

[next kiln]

Art theft doesn't even matter anymore, whenever I see people talking about it, it's the context of adding on to the fact they hated the play test too lmao, so sad this game DOA, play test wasn't that bad, but they were dumb for competing with arc raiders, marathon needs another 2 years in dev if they want a chance to survive on launch

[gusty sluice]

I don't think Bungie can spend 2 more years cash deving it. They are gonna ship and make some money on Glitch and thief skins

Because Glitch and Thief are best-in-class characters like people are obsessed

[lean quartz]

i dont think anyone can use that exuse after Bungie has stolen art 5 times now.

[round vector]

anyone in this channel talk about lore

[gusty sluice]

Yep somebody should take the fall. Even Joe could do it

[livid current]

Kinda crazy people will hype games like COD, most recycled trash ever then get mad at something new like Marathon

[turbid nebula]

It's different and scary so we need to get the tribe together and beat it with a rock until it stops moving

[lean quartz]

does it matter who takes the fall at this point? you can only say a disgruntled employee stole art so many times. a pattern has been established and Bungie's rep is tarnished. ya can't fix that. they're plagarists.

[lean quartz]

do you think Traxus steals art too

[gusty sluice]

Yeah someone can take the fall and make it clear that there's thousands and thousands and thousands of original assets, so its unfair to paint the whole crew as thieves when it was a management fuckup

[livid current]

Pretty sure many big game corporations steal stuff anyways, not sure what the outrage is about

[round vector]

I think u could take the discussion to general lol <3

[lean quartz]

it's a management fuckup that has happened 5 times now.

[gusty sluice]

Yep management at bungie is trash this is well documented

[glossy olive]

Ask people how they feel about Palworld…

[gusty sluice]

Hahaha yeah palworld is whack imo

[upbeat harness]

the outrage is that almost everything (artdesign) is based on stolen IP, if the original Owner says NO u can't use it and the game is basicly dead before arival

[lean quartz]

Marathon had one great thing everyone agreed was good.

and now it's tarnished because they were so heavily "inspired" by an indie artist's work.

[glossy olive]

Plagiarism to the max in Palworld and everyone loves that game

[round vector]

these guys ain't heard about wipeout huh

[gusty sluice]

To be fair the art historians of the internet have all helped us learn that this art style existed in the 80s. antireal didn't invent it

[livid current]

Ahh gotcha, so whole games inspired and designed ground up around the theft, that makes sense

[gusty sluice]

the art director has art in this style predating the stolen assets

[upbeat harness]

the art director literaly follows the artist !!!!!!!!!!

[gusty sluice]

Its true and he also has art predating the stolen assets

[round vector]

https://discord.com/channels/1303855380845301861/1306389618089787454

[lean quartz]

they didn't take assets from wipeout and put them in marathon

they took an artist's work and literally put her signature in the game. lmao. so many of her pieces!! it was so egregious.

[livid current]

Ahhh, interesting

[round vector]

https://discord.com/channels/1303855380845301861/1306389618089787454

[gusty sluice]

Yep they fucked up. She should get paid. I hope they fix it

[faint chasm]

Speaking of which, with how they said the contracts are going to be slow pace to attribute with the story beats, I wondered if we'll get data pack and or messages from each faction detailing most of their ongoings the higher up in rank we get with them.

[round vector]

Vulcan in the alpha talks about how ||ur very lucky they are not just coming to kill u near the end of the questline for them lol. I'd love to see some of the AIs, maybe someone like Gaius, start slipping u info bc they Like You Personally 👀 ||

[livid current]

Not sure, but anytning better than Tarkov and Delta Force at this point

[cobalt tiger]

I like how cyberpunk 2077 did it, you're doing something and they send you a message

Look at it "more missions"

[violet fog]

I really liked in the alpha when the AI would say some disturbing ass stuff too, i wish i clipped some of the lines, cuz a couple were pretty dark.

[visual lynx]

oh jeez even this channel is all off topic art scandal rage now?

[visual lynx]

they’re at least transcribed at the sites in pins

[violet fog]

Nah just a couple spillovers from the detritus that is general chat

[gusty sluice]

Assert: you can do it. That one helped me a few times after losing streaks 🤣

[leaden dew]

I thought those lines from ONI were very snarky and sarcastic. I loved them.

[coarse raptor]

We got the "rat gnawing on corpses", "you shouldnt have come here" and one more i forgot about

[faint chasm]

Hopefully with how the setting of mararthon and halo deal with ais in regards to rampancy we won't have to deal with a shodan/A.M. sort of problem. Mind you from what a good a chunk the voice lines and text show some of the ais with the corporations can get pretty violent if given the oppertunity to take act out on how the runners are evidently screwing them over when doing contracts/missions for other factions.

[coarse raptor]

There were times when oni would switch up the lines, like ones that sounded more human like would later be slightly altered to give a more robotic feel

[leaden dew]

I wonder if any of the 6 factions will not be an AI or if all 6 will be AI's

[coarse raptor]

That would be interesting

[coarse raptor]

Such as "expect death, embraced rebirth"
Turns into "expect termination, embrace reanimation"

[coarse raptor]

Or something along those lines

[faint chasm]

Who knows, with durandal and possibly leela and a few ais from the trilogy returning in NuMarathon I wonder if oni will go through rampancy herself. Seeing the all the runners consciousness seem to be either a huge facility and or ship may give credence that the servers holding being may the exact size if not close to size the machine in where durandal started his rampancy.

[cobalt tiger]

Will marathon give me an ai on my neck?

[round vector]

I'm literally obsessed with the override ONI line that says "they have been watching you since before you could see" it made me stop dead every time I heard it

[leaden dew]

What I am very curious about is if the ONI AI will somehow tie back to the lore of the ONI game. Doubtful since Bungie no longer owns the IP but I feel like the acronym is too deliberate to be a coincidence.

[visual lynx]

there was also ONI in the Halo universe that’s unrelated to both the Bungie West game and the NuMa AI

[round vector]

it's a good string of 3 letters and sounds tho they should use it again hah

[quasi sluice]

escape will make me God

[latent lodge]

Office of Naval Intelligence?? 🫡

[prime rose]

I think it’s just Bungie being cheeky like usual

[violet fog]

Is Oni the AI that communicates with the player on loading into a match?

[faint chasm]

from what I can tell in the alpha she is most likely the one who is talking. Especially when the time for extract goes down in the duration of the mission

[visual lynx]

a lifetime ago, we have already escaped.

escape has made us gods.

[coarse raptor]

What in the god damn

Must've been the wind.

[wind canyon]

Yeah that's ONI talking to you throughout the runs she's every runners personal assistant, shells are made sekiguchi and run by cyber acme because everything runs on cyber acme

[somber venture]

Is this a pun or did you never learn to spell plagiarism?

[polar jewel]

Especially in the age of spellcheck.

[bronze perch]

Kinda flamed yourself, brother

Took some notes from the Bungie playbook

[quasi sluice]

you ca't even spell that shit right

[molten marsh]

🤣

[coarse raptor]

In a world with autocorrect even 😔

[lime delta]

plagiarism will make me God

[lime delta]

spell what right>?

[molten marsh]

lol

[plucky sierra]

Don’t think deleting the message hides anything

[molten marsh]

"pleugerism"

[lime delta]

i have no idea what you are talking about

[lime delta]

Loser that's not how you spell plagiarism

[molten marsh]

Oh yeah? 🤣

Tell me about it lol

[lime delta]

dude its not my fault you cant spell plagiarism

but seriously what is up with bungie and plagiarism

[violet fog]

oh no the plagarism homies have entered lore chat

[bronze perch]

The self own is crazy

[violet fog]

yall got nothing better to do?

[north silo]

Oh that would be really interesting to see

[faint chasm]

Again if they want to boost AR they should see about either getting the official server to open up the gen chat or make their own. This is the lore section of the marathon server and it would do them better to head to greener pastures.

[lime delta]

i think the self own is sitting the lore chat of an already dead in the water game

[bronze perch]

You mean what you’re doing right now lmao

[lime delta]

messing with you

[lime delta]

its actually pretty entertaining trying to get everyone in the chat mad at me

[muted warren]

The OG games were a reading simulator trying to piece together all of the lore.

[round vector]

sadly resets the counter to 0

[brave aurora]

As if there is anything more worthwhile to do in this god forsaken timeline

[lime delta]

brother why do you still got the marathon profile picture. let it go

[brave aurora]

Oh I can't it's actually a part of my identity now

[real atlas]

thing is
marathon lore discussion would include lore of the last 3 games
and those games have lore lemme tell ya

[wind canyon]

my favorite part about marathon lore is how so much of it carried over to Halo really shows how Bungie was proud of their work or laziness or both

[gusty sluice]

I heard Halo as an idea didn't really exist until they were worried Microsoft would take the Marathon IP

[visual lynx]

Halo began life set in the Marathon universe and then had names and dates changed to protect the innocent IP

[stiff fiber]

ok

[obtuse frigate]

ok

[foggy mica]

So...... do i gotta play destiny for the lore now?

[plucky sierra]

Yes

[foggy mica]

Fair enough..... thats 185Gb tho......

[dire estuary]

Only partial lore, you can read about Marathon/Myth lore online, and then as for Marathon lore, the original games are free and easy to access and theres a story page with all the lore compiled for reading

[foggy mica]

How much of the lore for Destiny would be connected to Marathon/Myth?

[dire estuary]

Theres a lot of parallels…too much for me to explain now but i could dm what i know, and you too could do your own digging further

[foggy mica]

Id appreciate that xXHa10B0$$Xx. Ill download destiny once my wifi gets installed. For said parallels and cuz i miss the gunplay. Watching people play the alpha for Marathon made me miss it

[hushed pilot]

Ye id def find on cdkeys or something if you want a deal for the whole package then do just stuff in order

[foggy mica]

Does cdkeys have deals for console?

[dire estuary]

D1 has a whole collection for like 20 USD, and d2 with the light and darkness collection may still be on sale. Also yea, CD keys for console exist or you can just buy it digitally

[foggy mica]

Ill get it digitally..... ill eye out deals like a hawk cuz if i get stuck behind a paywall again i may just lose it

[dire estuary]

The original marathons can be obtained 2 ways, (4 if you want a truly OG experience):

1. Downloading the files to play right off the alephone page, easy to install scenarios too
2. Just download them off steam
3. Play the original files off a mac virtual machine (either Basilisk II or Sheepshaver)
4. Find an original copy (good luck) and play on an original mac tower pc of the time (good luck)

[hushed pilot]

Usually have different copies ye , I also trust it as a seller compared to say g2a

But yea deals and then you got s boatload of content and a pretty good story , My name Byf also a good lore axillary to watch tooo

[foggy mica]

Ill binge his content when i get the chance to

[hushed pilot]

3 hour Hive lore video let's go

[foggy mica]

Off steam it is then

[dire estuary]

The originals have built in steam workshop that still gets new additions too!

[mossy parrot]

There was the map creator too, wonder if there are people still meeting up for pvp in them?

I couldn't even find people when I was playing the originals on my Mac back in the day 😂

[dire estuary]

Every sunday, Infinity netgames lel

[mossy parrot]

Damn I'll have to check it out ty!

[dire estuary]

Also people still make scenarios and update the base game to have better qol for map making, gameplay, and whole scenario making

[mossy parrot]

So cool, I was playing the ogs before I had internet way back, then when I got that fire 28k dial up I think the game population moved on by then. Sure I could've scoured the web but that was probably beyond my 10 y/o self

Really awesome to see people still able to have fun and create with it

Creating a pit full of juggernauts and spht etc and watching them destroy each other was like the digital equivalent of catching bugs and having them fight, peak tween boy activities 😂

[arctic owl]

https://i.postimg.cc/prpHg2wX/IMG-6112.jpg

Who wants to start the bidding

(JK I will be cremated with these)

[foggy mica]

Whoa cool

[foggy mica]

Nice

[mossy parrot]

Niiice

[arctic owl]

Sorry, xXHa10BO$$Xx mentioned finding the original games and I decided to show off and make it all about me. Please carry on

[dire estuary]

I already found a good copy of the trilogy box set i want, oni, and myth 2…i got the first one, and a G3 Blue and White that works

Amazing collection though!!! I applaud

[arctic owl]

Ah sweet. That’s the tower I played all these on. I miss that whole weird design aesthetic

How many adapters do you need to get one of those bad boys to work with a modern monitor? Or do you have a vintage one of those as well? I wanna say I connected my monitor to my G3 with good ol’ SCSI