📚marathon-lore-discussion

[warped flume]

From the cinematic I’m getting the vibe that there’s already multiple copies of each runner’s shell on standby. You know what, what if we are the true runners 🤔

[thin dust]

Compare hunters between marathon and halo

[prime rose]

gang please don't use ChatGPT as a source for literally anything - it is a mindless slop machine which generates nonsense based on probability guesses, not accurate information

[thin dust]

both named hunters btw lol

[simple garden]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571727/Is-Gods-face-in-Leonardo-da-Vincis-work.html

I have a strong feeling that that Destiny Star Wars DLC is going to be a bit deeper than we expect

Anyone read or hear about ‘bodyoids’?
… 🫠

[obtuse frigate]

It's a genuinely useful tool as long as you know how to use it. The summary I linked is fine and not some random AI response bullshit

Reading the archive sites and playing the games is obviously the best way to fully learn the lore, but a summary of the main events isn't bad either

[round vector]

I work in stem cells in biotech and I don't really feel like it's a real option anytime soon. I've worked with pluripotent stem cells and it's very very difficult now to even pattern cells in a way which produce effective "organoids". The original proposal is from some random Stanford postdoc in MIT Tech Review and holds little water for me personally. The ethical concerns, however, must be brought up well before we advance organoid tech and we must grapple with it now so I'm glad it began a discussion?

[round vector]

the information spat out of chatgpt isn't reliable and people have produced actual summaries and videos covering it so. like why bother with it? you said yourself you couldn't verify the veracity. I disagree that there is somehow a better outcome if you "know how to use it"

[prime rose]

if you are going to read a 25 page novella about marathon, please read one of the ones written by actual humans, not a mindless probability machine which regularly makes shit up because it is not capable of distinguishing fact from fiction

[obtuse frigate]

The prompt is set up to have ChatGPT summarize directly from information only found on the lore archive pages and to include citations for everything. Again, AI tools can be useful if you know how to use them. It's not all Google AI Helper "eat three rocks a day" bullshit

It's usually a problem when the AI just makes up answers based off random Reddit or Quora posts, but it's actually decent at summarizing information that you give it

[prime rose]

the literal second sentence of the plot summary is a hallucination

edit: for the sake of making my point - the slopbot states Tau Ceti is 94 light years from earth. this is categorically incorrect in real life (its about 12 light years away) and even if you generously assume the bot is accurately trawling marathon information, leela's broadcast is stated to take 92 years, not 94

i'm not going to read the next 24 pages of 'summary' to check for more errors because I am intimately familiar with the lack of accuracy in LLMs like chatgpt and there are plenty of human sources on the subject of marathon's plot

[obtuse frigate]

Cool?

[crimson wagon]

Everything is not as it seems{}. seems{}. seems{}.

[visual lynx]

this sentence?

The Marathon carries thousands of colonists in stasis en route to Tau Ceti IV (a star system ~94 light years from Earth), protected by a contingent of “Mjolnir Mark IV” cyborg super-soldiers (reanimated war casualties with enhanced bodies, nicknamed “Battleroids”)

[prime rose]

yeah

[simple garden]

‘I work in’ doesn’t = I’m the authority in this topic.

Maybe stop working with stem cells because you’re literally being the problem.

[round vector]

okay. I was trying to give background as to why I have these ideas I didn't say I was an authority lmao

[silk bane]

Okay, I think it's hallucinating the 94 light years, right?

[simple garden]

Creating life and then calling it ‘no life’ IS THE PROBLEM

[round vector]

I'm not interested in entertaining a discussion with you about this in the lore channel thanks

[simple garden]

You don’t get Marathon At All LOSER

[crimson wagon]

I feel like we kinda just sidestepped ethics when it came to organoids because we're already doing all sorts of wacky things with them

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/these-living-computers-are-made-from-human-neurons/

[simple garden]

Exactly and they want to ignore their sins

What happens if you end up in your own simulated hell?

If your soul is your mind and your mind is a data set, then where that data set exists, your spirit enters with no chance of escape beyond self
‘Sorry Drifter’

[crimson wagon]

I think we're already there

[simple garden]

I would choose becoming everyone over endlessly trying to homogenize the world into me - ie. The opposite of someone who ‘works with stem cells’

[silk bane]

Just went through the sources it's listing, and it seems like 94 years was listed on the Win95 Demo's readme lol

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/M2_Win95_Demo_Read_Me.html

Which isn't to say that it doesn't hallucinate, of course, but I was just curious where it could've pulled that info from

[golden spoke]

I also hallucinate, but like, on purpose

[simple garden]

Went from a proud scientist with a wall of degrees to not standing one’s own reflection in a 🫰

looks like I got you tethered

[round vector]

bro stop harassing me in a lore discussion channel. I responded once to a thing you asked about since I thought I could offer some insight. log off

[simple garden]

Lmao (he blocked me 💔)

[golden spoke]

self deprecation is my love language

[simple garden]

I’m fat and lazy and stupid and a sloppy mess! 🤡

I do wonder why so many come to the lore channel and then get upset when the lore gets too deep for them

“I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE KIDDY POOL, I DIDNT REMEMBER MY FLOATIES!”
I truly hope y’all didn’t just show up to drown in the pool

[simple garden]

Practice makes perfect

[vernal torrent]

as is the case for many fictional worlds, the complexity folds in on itself into a sort of simplicity

[golden spoke]

i love you too

[simple garden]

Absolutely - to fish, there is no deep end. There’s just ‘live’

[golden spoke]

So... regarding fish... What do you think Noah did with them during the flood?
Like, did he put them on the Ark along with all the other animals, or was he like, "nah, you guys got this" ??

[simple garden]

I mean sushi came from somewhere right..?

[golden spoke]

Momentus point you have made

I shall ponder on this some more

[simple garden]

Sushi deserves all the pond-ering 🎣🍣❤️‍🔥

If crabs think fish can fly, do fish think we’re ascended masters and to crabs we ain’t nothin’ special again?
Is this transcendence?

I’d ask the super senior special scientist in here but we all know he’s too busy crying in his own simulation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosphaerium_darthvaderi

‘Philotic spiral’

[vernal torrent]

tf is darthvader doin out in da yungas

[simple garden]

Welcome to Destiny lol

Destiny and Star Wars = confirmed same universe

To some in here: Destiny and Marathon = NEVER CONNECTED EVER YOU IDIOT

[visual lynx]

like from ender’s game?

[simple garden]

Yes that definition of ‘philotic’
Philotic Spiral is an exotic weapon in Destiny

‘The frontal telopods are very similar to those in the neptunus species group, but the rear telopods are much closer in structure to the coquerelianum species group.’
If you are playing Destiny now you know about the tendrils reaching up from Neptune and out of the Dreadnaught (both)

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyFashion/comments/11ptbhu/shiva_the_risen_destroyer_of_darkness_inspired_by/

I had to share this lol goddamn top tier fashion

[strong hollow]

277.12 (3986) - googleRelease

Rebirth won't be the highest grossing or number one PlayStation game at the end of the month . It's not a fake number one I don't care about marathon it's always a theatre introduction with no profit

[simple garden]

The duck 🦆

[strong hollow]

And that's why I'm firing marathon

[simple garden]

Is this how yall try to spin me? Logic spirals of nonesense? Lol good thing I’m human too 😅🫠🤯😱

[simple garden]

hey bud, just checking in, how you doing? 👨🏻‍⚕️ 🍎

I had no clue Mario was so deep.. the coins are imprints of trapped celestial beings, the Stars at the end of a zone are the trapped Echoes of Light and Bowser is Solomon 🤯

Damn Herald, I definitely see why you’re so spooked 😅

[loud storm]

oas

[simple garden]

More like OSS

[rancid spoke]

This guy thinks he's Tom smh

[golden spoke]

But like, what if he was

[rancid spoke]

Tom is gentler

[golden spoke]

You don’t like it rough?

[rancid spoke]

Similar sharp tongue, but Tom's arrows are targeted-- sharp, directed, and to an extent, elegant.

[golden spoke]

Ahh I get it

[rancid spoke]

Tom picks his targets with purpose and thought. I don't see that from this other individual

[vestal onyx]

I think Emperor Valkorion from Star Wars could solo the entire Destiny universe

[peak adder]

Tom is RAW 🔥

[pale trench]

Space suit man has blue blood. Maybe an early biomata?

[crimson wagon]

Not only that but in the alpha, the body you find trapped in the edge of the temporal anomaly is also missing it's head with blue blood oozing out of it's neck. According to the ARG Sekgen started producing full-body biomata in 2459, which was before the launch of the Marathon in 2472. So in this timeline the colony does appear to have clone technology. Curious that they'd have the biomata wear suits like that but the first models were likely nowhere near as durable as the current ones. Ultimately I think they're just bending over backwards with the lore to avoid showing real human blood in-game so they can avoid an M-rating 🙄

[thin dust]

Did you feed it the info, or did you have it search the web, there is a difference

Take summary ctrl+a->Ctrl+C->Ctril+P, "please digest this info, and summaraize, use only this info." "from the info I provided, what are are the proper names we know"

This is not the same as, "hey robot do some research for me and report what you find about marathon"

Robot-"Here's my summary, a marathon is a race but certainly not a sprint"

[obtuse frigate]

Thank you. I hate AI being shoved everywhere as much as the next guy, but it has its legitimate uses.

Also the dude is finding the absolute smallest point to nitpick LOL. In the Marathon 2 description, Bungie stated that Tau Ceti IV is 94 light-years away. I assume that's where the number is from. Either way though, 92 vs 94 years will not absolutely shatter your entire understanding of the story and lore. The Marathon lore in general has many different inconsistencies, and the dates and distances have been debated for decades because of how different they are from real life.

[jolly bronze]

94 is an important number though... it makes ALL the sense

[obtuse frigate]

92 is also half of 99, so truly it is quite important

[jolly bronze]

i see patterns in chaos

[silk bane]

God damn, didn't think I'd see an RS reference in a Marathon server lol

[jolly bronze]

naw, thats some Terrence level nonsense ...

[terse steppe]

Many might not agree with me but I think its a pretty genius way to explain the concept of having multiple copies of the same runner used many times by all of us players. We're basically like operators using the uploaded consciousness of the specific runner we choose. It explains the fragmented memories of the runners that we see in the trailer as they're being copied many times over. A very dystopian vision of the future.

[silk bane]

What's curious is that the fragmentation is focused on the self. Glitch remembers her mother, but she doesn't remember her own childhood photo, and she kinda doesn't seem to care about her lucky charm either. Makes me think there may be something sinister going on here as well. Are the runners' own experiences being suppressed for the "job"?

[crimson wagon]

Imagine if the Pfhor trih-xeemed Sol and then the last remnants of humanity were just digitized copies left in biomata shells lol

[terse steppe]

That makes me think of the movie 'Oblivion'. What if the war was actually lost and we're not doing contracts for humanity?

[crimson wagon]

Would be a good way to condition the perfect worker units

[silk bane]

Damn, that would be a great twist

[jolly bronze]

actually pfhor made bobs, doing contracts for them

[terse steppe]

The Pfhor using the AI contract givers as a cover would make sense. An easy way to manipulate the runners to make them fight their hardest.

[jolly bronze]

can i explode on another runner?

[terse steppe]

Maybe that's why the AI keeps referencing their personal connections to humanity. Having someone or something to fight for makes a person more driven and effective after all.

[jolly bronze]

"Are you an effective team?" — ONI

after so many seasons, they reveal this, and there is a Runners revolt, and a few new pfhor heavy maps the runners drop into and try to steal secrets and intel from

[terse steppe]

Interesting. We might be fighting for the enemy.

[round vector]

I'm curious though if that photo actually is her or if those questions are part of an experiment...using the framework of a recalibration exercise to blind the subject into answering with honest reactions and then collecting data on how the runners react to being presented with false info? esp if the corpos like sekgen are interested in seeing how/why frame consciousness breaks down or changes... I really wanna see more about it in release it's compelling

[thin dust]

So, I've had my face changed, facial reconstruction (HUGE UNDER BITE) and my old self looks weird to me. To a point memories fade. This makes sense

[snow wind]

I think Void has the same photo in his hands during the next segment. ONI being his handler as well as Glitch's handler makes it very apparent that someone is conspiring against the Runners. It probably has some tie in with the Battleroids from the old Marathon games, since the Security Officer probably has implanted memories himself.

[thin dust]

THINGS TO REMEMBER ABOUT VOID CHILD PIC, HE LOOTS IT FROM GLITCH

[silk bane]

But he doesn't remember any of that cause he died on-field

[snow wind]

How TF did it get up into his hideout then? He died before he could extract it.

[round vector]

ya it is the same photo! but it's not entirely clear how it was presented since we don't see it print out..wait but ur right he didnt exfil with it

[thin dust]

Do you have to exfil with all items. like a safe cache?

[round vector]

Also damn it seems like there are a LOT of runners on that holding station

[terse steppe]

In the trailer we see a vast chamber that seems to be the storage centre for all the runners consciousnesses. What if that is actually a Pfhor facility.

[snow wind]

How does the photo get into the machine then?

[thin dust]

couldnt say. I just find it interesting we never here ONI confirm that it is Void

[snow wind]

The Pfhor would never. It's not their MO. Theyre more into the explicit dominance and subjugation beef. They're not very subtle slavers. Even in MI, they just threaten the Security Officer into going along with them.

[terse steppe]

Yes you're probably right. Also I can't imagine Bungie would think to go down the twist route like that.

[round vector]

hmmmm also remembering how in the Runner intro when you first launch the alpha has one of the early checks fail (text says FAILURE) before moving on to the next screen and how this is tying into the loss of self the frames are experiencing.... when u land on tau ceti in the alpha u can get a voiceline from ONI that lists possible dangers, including "loss of life" followed by "loss of self" like what is causing that????

[silk bane]

Unless the Pfhor can't physically go down to TC4 cause of the contagion or Anomaly, I don't see why they'd do covert ops like Runners. We don't know what the S'pht are doing there either.

[terse steppe]

Didn't the S'pht end up as our allies towards the end of the original marathon?

[silk bane]

I think the Anomaly and/or the contagion might be messing with spacetime, which indirectly affects the self?

[terse steppe]

It was the Pfhor's control of them that made them our enemies

[thin dust]

Durandel led them in their war I think. We just get told what to do by the AI the entire game

[jolly bronze]

pretty much, the SO had no brain to think, just do what Dur says

[terse steppe]

I hope the lore is thoroughly delved into in this game. Also that it isn't too predictable and one note.

I feel its something that could really enhance the gameplay, especially if its incorporated and not just something that's talked about in mission briefings

[thin dust]

So far nothing feels predictable. It's just tooo early, The S'Pht look to be on the marathon, but we have a scan showing no life or ai onboard. So maybe they arent there yet, and the shot of them are things yet to come, or just glimpses of the past

[thin dust]

They said, lots of story content was with held from the Alpha, this likely includes enemies

[terse steppe]

I'd like to see the anomalies and aliens activity represented in the game itself. I'm sure Bungie are currently working on that though.

[terse steppe]

yeah that's what I'm hoping for. Think it has the potential to really elevate the game to something special

Another game that springs to mind is Stalker, it captured that sense of the unknown with a foreboding feeling of dread really well.

Hoping we get something similar in this. Might be asking too much though tbf. It is an extraction shooter after all.

[thin dust]

Map size and design has lots to do with that feeling, and size of the lobby. I do think Bungie is cooking here. Have you followed any of the ARG stuff?

[terse steppe]

I've had a brief look and yes it looks fantastic. Bungie doing a great job with the world building so far.

[thin dust]

Here's a link asking the question you are asking. It's shared to the time where he asks about old school marathon

https://youtu.be/m428eCqQuTM?si=jMPmY4JQL1Ui7nvQ&t=2182

[terse steppe]

thank you!

[round vector]

the ARG docs go soooo hard esp the MIDA publication!! so cool to poke around them ahh

[keen urchin]

The marathon is a ship

[celest maple]

Tbh, I feel like

[crimson wagon]

We're runners in a marathon 🤯

[civic folio]

If a marathon is 26.2 Miles, they should have had a February release.

[simple garden]

Eww

[simple garden]

I’m so relieved you are doing okay ❤️‍🔥

[simple garden]

You mean like.. Subjugators(?)

[simple garden]

Almost like a .. Bodyoid

[simple garden]

Imagine missing by two entire light years and saying ‘close enough!’

Protection is still necessary! Don’t let them trick you into becoming the parasite - they live in RAW

[fickle bough]

Parasites? I’m more scared of simulacrums! They’re everywhere!

[crimson wagon]

I tell ya, this regularly scheduled programming is enough to make you wanna kill your television

[simple garden]

Tis the point

[native mantle]

https://sekiguchigenetics.jp/ Anyone find this site yet? Seems like a lore dump

[round vector]

yaaa it's awesome! it's part of the family of sites that came out during the ARG

here's the traxus site http://traxus.global/

[crimson wagon]

It's probably included in the ARG collection on marathon.bungie.org

[crimson wagon]

Strauss' memorandum on handling rampant AI is especially pertinent to this channel atm, have you seen that one?

[simple garden]

Weir - a low damn meant to raise water level or divert path

Weird sisters - witches in McBeth who controlled Destiny

Weirwood - Hivemind half plant, half flesh

Weird

[visual lynx]

perhaps this aspect of the plot will tie in to the classic marathon protagonist’s fragmented memories, “oddly this is familiar to you, as if from an old dream, but you can’t exactly remember”, etc

[thin dust]

At the time though that was to imply you were a Battleroid. Reanimated [Dead] Cyborg Soldier

[crimson wagon]

Yeah but I think they're going for the same overall concept with the runners

[thin dust]

Dead soldiers as model shells?

[silk bane]

Yeah, not sure how to parse this when there can be multiple Glitches and Voids running around TC4 lol

[crimson wagon]

Constantly dying and being reanimated, it's the same for flesh or biosynthetic shell

[thin dust]

Why cant a digital consciousness be uploaded to multiple pieces of hardware, isolated?

[silk bane]

What happens when two Glitch runners die at the same time?

[round vector]

I think the frames are meant to be like models sekgen offers but in game they are talking about each player char as having a loose identity

[crimson wagon]

This is why I wish they hadn't gone for hero archetypes and just let us completely customize our runners

[round vector]

that is, you will see the same model you are in on the field but you are your own person (a la GitS)

[turbid nebula]

Noooooo interesting sci-fi setting aaaaaa

[vestal onyx]

so what's the lore reason to have 2 identical glitch characters with the same hair and clothes etc

[round vector]

two ppl bought into the like C class frame and then customized them with the same options

[crimson wagon]

You think the force recon Marine from PiD was preserved with jjaro technology after his experience and eventually made into Recon 54?

[visual lynx]

no I don’t really like that theory, too baseless

[shy quarry]

Within interlinked
https://tenor.com/view/bladerunner2049-test-gif-18268638

[round vector]

def smth I was thinking about 👀

[simple garden]

If bodyoids happen, there will be an integration process necessary to take place and there will be minds who don’t handle the transfer well and enter biological rampancy.

[crimson wagon]

Yeah. The ending to half-life opposing force comes to mind tho and I wonder what the government did with our guy at the end of PiD

[simple garden]

The problem isn’t having sub minds, the problem is weaving too many deviating sub minds into one story the mind recognizes as ‘self’

[kind dragon]

i yall im new here

[simple garden]

Stop looking for the ground and instead become it in flight.

(Regardless of who you are or personal belief system, always good to keep in mind)

Birds don’t fear falling and fish aren’t scared to drown

[visual lynx]

antifoundationalism is a key aspect of my general philosophy so you don’t need to tell me that. I’m not saying “that’s definitely not the case, prove it”, but “I see no reason to narrow down to that possibility instead of any other”.

[silk bane]

And to take another step, if a single consciousness is uploaded to Glitch and Void, does that affect their self-identity? Would a mind fragment when using different shells? Or would it strengthen, like anti-fragility?

[simple garden]

It’s a good question.. what if Glitch, Void and Blackbird became One?
What if there is no separation because that separation was just an illusion meant to keep the endless loop going - like the Manhattan project, except pieces are hidden from self by shattering self.
Like Voldemort and his horcruxes

I’m just realizing how impossible the Manhattan project is without first knowing the final outcome.. 😵‍💫

My question is what happens to ‘Marathon’ if we reach the finish line before the races takes off

[silk bane]

You are Destiny

[silk bane]

Usually the limiters are the practical stuff: what's mind-unity if you're still a server on a rack. Maybe staying in the biomata shell takes you through the stages of Rampancy once you're past the 25 minutes of playtime, and you've avoided UESC detection. Truly escape for freedom.

[simple garden]

I would be trying until my code expired or however the alpha is working to try and stay beyond the 25 minute mark lol I’m kind of glad I don’t because I wouldn’t stop spinning myself

[native blaze]

That was what it was like before Ziegler took over

[floral ravine]

How do we know this?

[simple garden]

There are statues the exact shape as the strand speared shields the new Eliksni have on Kepler in the bottom of Sepulchor lost sector - meaning that those cysts are basically the precursor to the Scorn or if you’d rather, Fallen + Hive/Flood prototype

[native blaze]

The ViDocs and documentation Bungie’s put out where they pivoted away from a more traditional extraction shooter to a hero shooter after playtester feedback and a lead development switch about a year ago

[turbid nebula]

I am pretty sure it was not as different as people think

[floral ravine]

Yeah speculation at best. Anyway this is the lore channel.

[native blaze]

https://www.ign.com/articles/bungie-shakes-up-marathon-leadership-removes-chris-barrett-as-game-director

[thin dust]

To be clear Chris seemingly removed himself. So it's not like Bungie Management said we want a new direction and you're out of a job. It wasn't due to game design

[simple garden]

What if the Manhattan project never ended - what if it upended ..

The opening to Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 🤦‍♂️

[vernal torrent]

the marketing department is trying to induce metastable rampancy in the community in the months leading up to release

[terse steppe]

anyone else concerned that being in a team will make it near impossible to learn about the lore and story of the game?

I was thinking maybe the lore and story elements should be unlockable encyclopedia entries. That way we can read all about them in our own time and not disrupt multiplayer games

[prime rose]

no, we have been told already by pre alpha testers that there is a lore terminal system in the out-of-match menus

[terse steppe]

ah ok, that's perfect then. Thanks

I hope there's some opportunities for detective work to be done in the game.

[vernal torrent]

people have been doing detective work for the better part of three decades

[simple garden]

Try last *three decade lol

[terse steppe]

I love games that have hidden clues which can be used to piece together lore

Shows a passion for the game's world itself beyond just being something that's fun to play

[vernal torrent]

learn how to grenade jump and read the terminal in the deprivation chamber, then profess your love for hidden clues and lore-by-piecemeal

[terse steppe]

The deprivation chamber is my room right now as I can't play marathon

[simple garden]

lol no no, we live Marathon. Turn it into the concentration chamber

[vernal torrent]

Are you floating six feet off the floor?

[terse steppe]

yes

[vernal torrent]

Has this been the case for the past three weeks?

[terse steppe]

It started 4 weeks ago when a strange green and red creature appeared in my bathroom

[tulip olive]

The trailer is chef's kiss

[simple garden]

Bout that yeah lol maybe three months though if I’m honest

[tulip olive]

Bungee was cooking

[terse steppe]

I think the cinematic trailer is a beautiful piece of art and I've watched it 6 times now

actually I'm going to watch it again, brb

[simple garden]

Of course the Traveler is a ‘dragon ball’ - it’s why the Ahamkara follow it around throughout spacetime 🤦‍♂️

[vernal torrent]

considering how poor a representation of actual gameplay it is, I'm inclined to believe the beauty of it is more on account of Alberto Mielgo's direction than any "cooking" on bungie's part

[terse steppe]

Is it a poor representation though? it shows runners with fragmented memories likely because they've been uploaded over and over again after being destroyed to complete their contracts. Seems pretty accurate to me

[vernal torrent]

• Locus stands still and gets obliterated despite being obscenely mobile and good at offensive repositioning
• Blackbird fails to anticipate a surprise attack... twice
• Void is caught being conspicuous
• Glitch fails to press any advantage she has, when that's explicitly the purpose of that shell

[terse steppe]

ofc gameplay wise its not entirely accurate.

There's a lot of cinematic leanings to increase the impact of the trailer that aren't gameplay accurate admittedly

[lavish palm]

idk man some of these teams…

[vernal torrent]

perhaps the only half-competent runner in the cinematic is Thief* (name pending?), who shows up for a grand total of less than fifteen seconds

[lavish palm]

the white lady with big thighs?

[terse steppe]

I think more importantly it gets across the idea of how runners are ultimately expendable and profit driven

[native blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/marathon-thief-marathon-thief-bungie-marathon-vilesoup-gif-9638443817462670853

[terse steppe]

she seems pretty badass

[vernal torrent]

DAAAAAAMN 👀 🥴 😳 😩 🔥 💦 🫃

[round vector]

it's supposed to be emotionally gripping not demonstrate their competancy haha

[formal marsh]

how can WE PLAY alpha ? please

[vernal torrent]

I know. That's exactly my point.

[round vector]

ya I'm agreeing lol

[round vector]

the alpha is closed! sorry

[simple garden]

That guy doesn’t really enjoy thinking deeply when it comes to gripping the reality of his own sins.

[vernal torrent]

no kidding

[wet temple]

so where do you guys think this game takes place in the timeline of the series? If its at all possible to tell? I don't know anything about the old games but im just curious

[round vector]

there are dates in the cinematic trailer for some events but I'm unclear on what/if retconning might be done compared to original marathon trilogy timelines so it's hard to say like totally rn for me at least. also there is certainly some weird spacetime stuff happening surely so that might muddy things as well

[visual lynx]

I think the most likely scenario to explain all the info we have so far is that:

• We’re supposed to be in the final timeline from Infinity, which is very different from the M2 timeline in ways, and unknown in lots of other ways, and so lots of things said in M2 may or may not have happened, but still similar events went down at Lh’owon;
• Leela never actually sent a message to Earth in the first place, she erroneously sent it to the wrong place, somewhere 92ly away from Tau Ceti; and
• Bungie made some acceptable retcons that fit with M1 canon (like implying the primary comms array was FTL), plus some careless small mistakes in their promotional material thus far (the date of the attack, the receipt of a distress signal, etc).

Leaving us in a world where the events of M1 and of Infinity’s final timeline happened, but the colony was not nuked down to bedrock, Durandal never stopped by, Blake never returned, and Leela’s message never arrived, so nobody at Sol has any idea about anything other than that the Marathon dropped out of contact in 2794.

Meanwhile the S’pht rebellion at Lh’owon did still happen in 2811 as per Infinity, and that has something to do with the second calamity that befell Tau Ceti in 2812. The S’pht have been fighting the Pfhor without human intervention since, and might have still toppled the Pfhor empire by around 2881 even without human help, though I’d wager not so that that war can come into play in later seasons of the new game.

Meanwhile by 2827 the colonists at Tau Ceti probably dug up some Jjaro artifacts (the Anomaly), wrecking the last of themselves, and those will probably prove decisive in the war between the S’pht and Pfhor…

…especially if the S’pht purposefully caused the 2812 calamity (the S’ct’lac’tr?), so Tau Ceti has been attacked separately by both the Pfhor and the S’pht, and now they’re at war with each other, and the Jjaro stuff on Tau Ceti can tip the scales, and humanity has to decide which if either side to take.

[round vector]

ohhh I had not made that connection between the 2811 and 2812 events (didn't play Infinity and unfamiliar with the lore from that one)

[visual lynx]

the 2811 date is actually from M2, but Infinity appears to take place at the same time as M2

[round vector]

I see I see

[warped flume]

Is the W’rkncacnter considered a 4th dimensional being? I’m not super familiar with the lore I’ll dive deeper this weekend

[visual lynx]

it’s never called that

[warped flume]

I figured, I’m just pondering based on how it operates. Maybe it can’t even fall into our conventional understanding of dimensions

[coarse raptor]

Nu caloric couldve helped the Martian during the famine on Mars, but chose not to because they saw no profit from it

Damn, the corporate greed in this series goes insane

[obtuse frigate]

That's how you took the lore?

[coarse raptor]

I mean, from some povs yeah

[obtuse frigate]

I got the sense that they capitalized on the famine and grew their business massively by GMO products

[coarse raptor]

Thats an interesting theory too

[obtuse frigate]

"We avoided extinction by conquering the inefficiencies that caused mass starvation."

[warped flume]

Is sekgen even controlled by fleshy humans? Surely they’re all S series biomata. Also the whole concept of runners reminds me of the Zima Blue episode of Love Death + Robots

[oak geyser]

Hello guys i watch video and they don’t give me the reward ?

[coarse raptor]

Gaius said that nu caloric was made about 200 years prior to the famine. so maybe they just really grew when the famine happened.

[coarse raptor]

If it's for the avatar border then it's expired

[vernal torrent]

Marathon 2025 takes place at least 15 billion years before or after Marathon 1994

[oak geyser]

Ok thank you

[wet temple]

the original games are free, right? I heard somewhere they are

[vernal torrent]

if not closer to 105 billion years, if not even more

[round vector]

wut? how's that

[vernal torrent]

look up aleph one

[round vector]

ye on steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/2398450/Classic_Marathon/

[wet temple]

I'll check it out

[obtuse frigate]

Where did you read that at? I don't see it in any of Gaius's messages

[high plume]

Wait where can i find the lore?

[wet temple]

does it play like System Shock?

[obtuse frigate]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/ or https://marathon.karnemir.com/root

[round vector]

peep pins in this channel, there's also a lot of videos ppl have linked you're likely to find in this channel if u scroll up

[high plume]

Ty

[vernal torrent]

kids these days don't know how to lurk moar

[round vector]

mmmmmmm haha it plays like Doom but not as good tbh it's pretty punishing from midgame on imo I didnt play a lotta corridor fps games like this so

[wet temple]

huh, I'll see if I like it or not, might as well

[round vector]

ig u could compare it to system shock 1 but I played like 20 seconds of it so I'm a bad ask for that LOL

[vernal torrent]

all they know is marathon (2025), charge they shields, crouch, be robosexual, eat hot path & die

[coarse raptor]

Oh shit wait, I was thinking of the misriah massacre I think. I think that was around 2440 something or some shit

[obtuse frigate]

Okay yeah I was gonna say lol, and depending on who you ask, the Misriah Massacre was in either 2345 or 2442

[coarse raptor]

Oh I see

[obtuse frigate]

The original terminal in Marathon 1 lists the date as 2345, but in the Lost Network Packets it is listed as 2442

[arctic owl]

Maybe there were two of them. Circumstances are cyclical

[obtuse frigate]

No

[arctic owl]

Sorry, “Circumstances are cyclical” is a quote from Thoth that has been rattling through my head nonstop since the original trilogy. Was just looking for a silly reason to deploy it

[obtuse frigate]

The human wheel is a metaphor for S'pht

[visual lynx]

Monsanto…

iiin…

SPAAAAAAACE!

[obtuse frigate]

Insert "if I had a nickle" meme

[obtuse frigate]

Yeah pretty much that, it wouldn't make sense for a corpo like that to just ignore a massive profit opportunity

[visual lynx]

if I had a nickel for every time circumstances were cyclical I wouldn’t have had to type this meme out myself like a poor

[arctic owl]

Honestly I could probably throw together a theory that the W'rkncacnter was responsible for every timeline discrepancy because it made things happen twice, without anyone remembering the first time, to serve its dark and unfathomable sense of humor

I mean I guess I did throw it together. I guess that’s the whole thing

[visual lynx]

Wrk causing time to fracture was a theory back in the day, but word of god disagrees

[coarse raptor]

Im assume they're gonna try to use the anomaly and temporal distortion as lore for why wipe happens

[obtuse frigate]

Oh hmm, I never thought of actual in-universe explanation

[coarse raptor]

Would be interesting

[visual lynx]

every wipe is a timeline reset like the end of chapters in infinity

[obtuse frigate]

That makes perfect sense though, nice thought. Basically like the timeline resets in Infinity

[visual lynx]

and each reset can begin in a slightly different universe allowing them to evolve the story over time too

[arctic owl]

Every single time a runner dies, it creates a new branch of the timeline. Eventually it becomes so confusing that even the W'rkncacnter can’t follow it all and the Bungie servers just shut off

I would be a really, really terrible game designer

[coarse raptor]

They get closer to understanding the origin and the cause of the anomaly, because recordings seem to still get through somehow

[terse steppe]

Maybe the anomaly is causing some kind of time paradox and that's why the runners memories are getting fragmented

[visual lynx]

Maybe the runners paradox is causing some kind of memory anomaly and that’s why the times are getting fragmented

[terse steppe]

Also possible

[round vector]

reading those back to back was fun haha

[dense frost]

Funny that this chat exists. I’m a EU reject so I haven’t played the game but from what I understand—What lore?

[simple garden]

Sounds like oas to me

Maybe watch The Fountain if yall haven’t seen it.

[turbid nebula]

three games and two ARGs...

[simple garden]

‘Like a poor’ 😭😂🤦‍♂️🫠

[grizzled pagoda]

Question for the lore people, how much of the marathon original lore is still being debated, wondering if it will be explored in the new game

[terse steppe]

There's quite a few references to the original game already from what's been shown. I'm sure we'll get much more as the game is developed

[visual lynx]

oas?

(also, the 2005 movie The Fountain?)

[simple garden]

So if you went to the farthest point south of an assumed flat earth (hang with me for a sec before 🤡), each part of the edge would lead to its perfect counterpart and collapse into one center point creating the illusion of a round earth - assuming video game logic where pac-man reaches one edge and transitions flawlessly to the other side because to him, it’s a round continuous space

[visual lynx]

a pacman world is isomorphic to a taurus, not a sphere

[grizzled pagoda]

So the earth is actually made out of flat polygons?

[arctic owl]

A conservative estimate would be that about 200% of the original Marathon lore is still being debated

[simple garden]

You know what I meant trying to simply for all, not to sound like a standout genius

[visual lynx]

only DOA3XBV, by way of Halo

[grizzled pagoda]

@arctic owl noted

[visual lynx]

it’s actually a simultaneous 4-day time cube

[arctic owl]

We all know a flat earth is surrounded by an impassable Arctic ice wall so like, I reject the very premise of this Pac-Man earth

[simple garden]

You need to chill and stop spinning yourself before guiding others

[arctic owl]

Check out the guy who doesn’t understand the Timecube

[simple garden]

You reject abstract thought you can’t comprehend. Read Paradisio

[visual lynx]

I am a poor so I get p-word privileges like that

[simple garden]

No. Check out the guy who wants to force the time cube into minds not prepped - that’s HOW YOU CREATE SUMMONS

[arctic owl]

I think I missed the topological explorations in Paradiso, but I’ll admit it’s been a while

[visual lynx]

anyway what is “oas”?

[simple garden]

Just Google oas my friend

[arctic owl]

Ah yes, the Swedish resort brand. I see the connection to The Fountain now

Maybe you could just talk straight and offer thoughts instead of speaking in riddles to mask a lack of actual insight

[simple garden]

Maybe it’s because I don’t expect people to know or be able to understand everything and parables allow growth at one’s own pace instead of ruining minds of others because I wanna feel special

Your mind is clearly on the edge of fate

[visual lynx]

no I think he means the multilateral regional body focused on human rights, electoral oversight, social and economic development, and security in the Western Hemisphere

[simple garden]

Who hasn’t been led by US since 🤷‍♂️

[visual lynx]

oh that was actually it?

[arctic owl]

Babe no one wants to engage with someone who clearly considers themself a genius spreading pearls to swine, but not actually saying anything halfway intelligent or coherent

[simple garden]

You are clearly a narcissist babe

[visual lynx]

now I’m even more confused

[arctic owl]

I’m actually rubber and you’re glue

[simple garden]

You’re right all perspectives stick with me and you are tunnel visioned because you only love yourself.

[arctic owl]

Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself

[simple garden]

See how quickly you devolve into nothing?

[rancid spoke]

What an odd way to approach conversations.

[arctic owl]

People are trying to discuss things and share information in here. Considering each other equals and helping each other. And you’re just way better than us and have thoughts too complicated for us to understand except in stories and vague references

[simple garden]

The one poignant statement you’ve made in here.

[sterile bolt]

Is this new unreleased dialogue? Sick

[gleaming edge]

The machines are gaining sentience, whaddup gang

[arctic owl]

Except there’s nothing actually in there. Like literally nothing. It’s embarrassing and annoying

[simple garden]

Coming from the lazy ‘learn for me’ boy who can’t be hassled with research

[arctic owl]

When on earth did I do that? Except when asking you to speak clearly?

[simple garden]

Hmm maybe when you stopped looking for answers within yourself and began relying on me instantaneously

[visual lynx]

as someone actually way better than everyone with thoughts too complicated for y’all to understand, I know that the fun and cool thing to do is hang out with all the kids who aren’t on my level yet and treat them like equals to help them get up there, because teaching is 25% of the literal meaning of life.

[rancid spoke]

This interaction is fascinating in a very sad way

[arctic owl]

Kid. This is seriously embarrassing to read.

[sterile bolt]

*"When on Tau Ceti IV did I do that?" Carry on...

[arctic owl]

Fair point, thank you

[simple garden]

Absolutely - I simply teach through questions and it is their choice to grow the seed or leave it be. I do not dictate what lives and dies within another’s mind palace

[rancid spoke]

Curious.

[arctic owl]

Teachers generally know things, is the issue here

[simple garden]

Oh my bad, I didn’t realize you thought I called you a teacher

[arctic owl]

…what

[terse steppe]

Listening is an art unto itself

[arctic owl]

I love you, kid. Be kind to yourself. You will outgrow this one day, and I’ll be proud of you

[sterile bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[simple garden]

I hope that’s either to him or back at yourself

[sterile bolt]

Exactly

[rancid spoke]

I don't think lashing out at everyone around you is a way to teach. But what do I know.

[simple garden]

Are you scared?

[rancid spoke]

Not at all. I'm fascinated.

[stuck delta]

Has this chat just become rage baiting?

[simple garden]

Marathon is rage bait - literally

[round vector]

so many blocked messages I can tell this dude logged back on lmao

[sterile bolt]

Grandmasterbaiting

[simple garden]

‘I’m a lil baby who can’t be told working with stem cells is bad so I block him instantly!’

[visual lynx]

despair is rage bait and envy is the payoff

[rancid spoke]

Lashing out again. Fascinating.

[round vector]

it's really good actually lol why u so scared of my lil cells

[simple garden]

Get angry. Hit STAGE 2

[grizzled pagoda]

@stuck delta only because marathon is a bad game (I’m addicted please help it’s been two days since the alpha closed)

[rancid spoke]

I'm good. Thank you for the suggestion though.

[simple garden]

Of ‘his little cells’ - he becomes you. No new life. Only knew him. 🫃

[round vector]

it's they/them it's in profile hehe and my cells are looking gr8 today! can harvest soon

[rancid spoke]

And here we see the full range of emotions displayed in the reactions. Laughter, sobbing, and... watermelon?

[arctic owl]

Marathon is about converting to the gold standard. Marathon is an adaptation of My Antonia. Marathon is about turning into a muffin. I can say no more. Turn inward. Seek inside yourself. Google Plato

[simple garden]

‘Mymymymymymymymymymymy’

[round vector]

it would be "their cells" in case u were struggling

[simple garden]

About THE MIDAS TOUCH

[arctic owl]

Google Funyuns also. And their relation to NATO

This mf’er really said MIDUS

[simple garden]

Awe he’s proving through strawman now! 😂😭

[rancid spoke]

I thought this would be a bit more entertaining. What a shame. Loosely targeted sentiments and nothing more.

[simple garden]

Lmao you’re the one who can’t see Mida and Midas

[rancid spoke]

Pity.

[simple garden]

Dead pity

[languid hawk]

do we know for sure we in another timeline'

[rancid spoke]

Say something poignant for once. I'm rooting for you.

[simple garden]

‘Say something I comprehend for once, I’m drowning’

[stuck delta]

What’s up with the Dr. Song audio?

[rancid spoke]

What a shame.

Toodles!

[languid hawk]

ahh aurorius my friend see you got another goofy goober in ur web

[stuck delta]

Big time

[simple garden]

Got a few tonight lol

Gherrit feeds well

[rancid spoke]

What do you want to know?

[round vector]

this dude scared of cells lmao

[stuck delta]

Just the implication. Who it was meant to go to. That sort of stuff

[arctic owl]

Round-Up weed killer. The Protestant Ethic. Neptune. Funyuns. I’ve shown you all the pieces, it’s up to you to look inward and understand

[simple garden]

This dude is Satan incarnate

[rancid spoke]

He's scared of biological manipulation. I can't say I blame him. A bit irrational, but understandable.

[stuck delta]

It’s very cool dialogue, so I was hoping it carried some weight instead of just being set dressing
Not that I’m complaining tho

[languid hawk]

i was doing it for a while but now they bore me anyway whats new marathon nerds what have yall found out thats related to numarathon?

[simple garden]

I’m not scared. I simply know.

[arctic owl]

You’re really scared. You’re crying actually

[rancid spoke]

That's a great question. She most likely left a message for someone, anyone to find. It reads like a log entry.

[simple garden]

I’m just finishing up the dead head process required for all new thoughts circles to grow and prosper

[languid hawk]

numarathon lore go

[rancid spoke]

We know the colonists at Tau Ceti IV prioritized knowledge and advancement over their own well-being, per Gaius. So there's also that.

[stuck delta]

Hell yeah
I hope we can find some more of her logs when the game releases
Even though she but the bullet

[rancid spoke]

Well, not all of them, scientists specifically. That's who Gaius was talking about.

[languid hawk]

i was looking at the destiny 2 starwars dlc lol i think our predictions may be rite

[simple garden]

You saw my posts last night about Darthvadrum?

[languid hawk]

i forsee it happening, will the fans here be mad ? extremely but its def eventually going to happen

gotta admit star wars is a good test of the waters especially since its in dec so long away from may 4th

[simple garden]

Oh it’s absolutely happening.
The Virgin hiding the image of The Father
Darthvadri from Neptune
The phy..something from Enders Game I can’t remember the name of right now lol

[rancid spoke]

By the way! Dr. Song's message is not the only one we see in-game.
We have an intercepted UESC transmission, and we also have a non-linear log from a nuCaloric scientist interacting with the Anomaly at Dire Marsh, if you're curious. @stuck delta

[simple garden]

What date was the livestream?? 🤔😏

[languid hawk]

now how long before u think they will do the d2 /marathon stuff

[stuck delta]

I think I saw a recording someone took in one of the other channels
The time Anomaly was done really cool stuff
Reminded me a bit of M: Infinity tbh

[round vector]

hearing the scientist audio logs was so hype I can't wait to see more about it

[simple garden]

Honestly I think they need their own space - the community isn’t ready to fully understand it so Star Wars will be a good starting ground

[rancid spoke]

These will probably not embed, but either way:

Dr. Song:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1318957581422821386/1369784419287826602/MedalTVMarathon20250427214725-1745802638.mp4?ex=681e7026&is=681d1ea6&hm=8c97d1e59f6da7cbde4242548cdba6f221658abae502bc6b07dbc7fc4470929b&

UESC Transmission:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1318957581422821386/1369784345836916746/MedalTVMarathon20250428232634-1745896137.mp4?ex=681e7015&is=681d1e95&hm=5c816b8f59caa7b2b89913034247d462267359ae10725c91faaf028a8cfbd8ea&

nuCaloric scientist at Anomaly:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1318957581422821386/1367726360818094170/MedalTVMarathon20250502012800-1746161752.mp4?ex=681e33af&is=681ce22f&hm=94cb3df5cb69718454384bd31bee77291aac538226d31151cf2738bbdbd5cd4b&

[stuck delta]

Thank you thank you

[rancid spoke]

Curious to see if we'll get anything like this from CyAc. It seemed to be the "intro" faction in the alpha, but I know we'll see more from them

[grizzled pagoda]

I wonder if Arachne will be the last one unlocked

[stuck delta]

It would be neat
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are mentioned along side or through UESC tbh
They seem pretty connected

[simple garden]

Yeah, this is great - don’t expect this from me, as I don’t have Alpha access.
If you don’t like my riddles, ignore them or debate but don’t insult.

Thank you for this contribution regardless

[rancid spoke]

It's likely. From what some early playtesters are theorizing, it might be a PvP-focused faction

[grizzled pagoda]

And if so, will unlocked factions also become locked again on reset?

[snow wind]

You mind if I use these?

[rancid spoke]

Never meant to insult you. I just don't like how vaguely directed your statements are.
I'm used to something more elegantly presented. That's all.

Hope to see you in the Beta when it comes around

[snow wind]

Nah, he's just crazy. He's been schitzoing here every day for weeks

[grizzled pagoda]

Having to wait for may 16th is pain

[rancid spoke]

I think he has some points. Just the way they're presented doesn't jive well with me.

[simple garden]

The Dyson protocol like a Dyson sphere - which is what housed the core mind in USS Calister: Into Infinity

[stuck delta]

It’ll be here quick

[snow wind]

We going Rampant boys

[grizzled pagoda]

Let’s host our own PlayMA

[rancid spoke]

Careful now-- there are hints of biomata rampancy in this game. We might get something of the sort.

[simple garden]

Unfortunately I’m not a conformist and will never be ‘what one is used to’ - I don’t strive for elegance.
I strive for truth and love

[stuck delta]

Have any of y’all seen mandalore gaming’s videos on marathon??

[grizzled pagoda]

Just started watching through them

[vernal torrent]

Note to self: don't try to make an acronym out of "Word-of-God."
With that out of the way, would you mind sharing the source for this?

[rancid spoke]

(In case it wasn't clear -- yes, you're free to use them)

[snow wind]

Biomata rampancy? Like the personality constructs of runners breaking down and whatnot? How are we even functioning 😭? Durandal and Tycho were coming apart at the seams in starship networks. We're in clone bodies with less ram than a TI89!

[stuck delta]

I think they are great
But it’s my only lore exposure for this game
I didn’t know if we had an old head in the chat who was a big time lore junky for the game that could endorse those videos

[simple garden]

Like.. the breakdown of.. Herald?
But .. I’m Herald..

Let it shatter.

[rancid spoke]

Your consciousness is transferred to a shell, and back to the mothership. In, and out. Cyclically. Forever.
We know that every transfer causes consciousness degradation.

There might WILL be a point where you're not who you were on your first matter transfer.

[vernal torrent]

Hide the pain, Herald.

[grizzled pagoda]

I’m pretty sure when it comes to marathon, even an old head’s interpretation is bound to be somewhat off, especially in marathon infinity

[stuck delta]

Fair fair

[simple garden]

Know the pain Herald

[vernal torrent]

Eat the pain herald

[languid hawk]

as i said before this maybe the whole infinty thing i was talking about. i think infinity was just mr.54 going through rampancy at the testing hands of durandal thoth to see if it would be possible. the case of "the apple dont fall to far from the tree" strauss did it to him so durandal do it to mr.54

[snow wind]

I mean, the best way to enjoy the lore is to just chill on the story page and comb through the old forum posts on marathon.bungie.otg/story

[grizzled pagoda]

I’ve really enjoyed learning about the S’pht personally

[simple garden]

Become the pain Herald

[rancid spoke]

In my humble opinion, the best way to enjoy the lore is to play through the games

[snow wind]

True but he has that Jjaro implant suite in his wetware. So he's probably going to take rampancy better.

[rancid spoke]

We'll see them aboard the Marathon!

[simple garden]

I just replayed all of D2 in the last week - or what’s existing still lol
I will 100% agree.

[stuck delta]

I’d love to have time to get through it all
I read through most of the first marathon’s lore entries
But I didn’t have the connection to some of the other bungie properties until someone spelled it out for me 😅

[onyx falcon]

Compilers aurafarming in both trailers

[rancid spoke]

The only direct, confirmed connection we have with Marathon is Pathways into Darkness

[simple garden]

I would hate to be ‘time poor’

[stuck delta]

Tell me about it

[stuck delta]

You could make a stretch connection to halo
W/ all the reclaimer stuff too

[snow wind]

Bahhhh, wait till you get to the Halo pre release stuff. That's the really fun goodies.

[simple garden]

Become love Herald

[rancid spoke]

Yes but that has never been officially confirmed
The only officially confirmed connection is Pathways into Darkness

[vernal torrent]

gnop is a direct link, too

[stuck delta]

I need to get into the weeds or it’s going to drive me crazy thinking about it

[terse steppe]

very intriguing, thanks for this

[simple garden]

The weeds are safe, the weeds are home, just don’t forgot to go beyond when you are ready

[stuck delta]

I like your funny words
You’re not wrong tho

[snow wind]

MIDA multi tool? 🔥

[rancid spoke]

Debatable! I'm leaning towards that being a tongue-in-cheek reference

[simple garden]

Can someone goto the anomoly and record the entire scene like upwards? It looks like the guy is a distraction from the real pertinence of the situation

[rancid spoke]

I think they're very cautious on what they officially deem as "connected" to prevent fans from going too haywire.

[round vector]

prolly wont have time for M2 after the M1 finish but I wish I didddd

[snow wind]

I don't think so because Multi tool has lore regarding Strauss and the Marathon itself.

[native blaze]

we can't get in-game

[rancid spoke]

Alpha has unfortunately ended :x

[simple garden]

MIDAS multitool.
Reach out and touch something

Oh 🤦‍♂️ I thought it was just no more codes lol my bad

[simple garden]

Stop cutting yourself up into a million million pieces and you’ll have time back.
The only true currency

[rancid spoke]

Strauss was directly mentioned, but the Marathon wasn't.
It's possible this is an alternate timeline of sorts, not directly connected to the main Marathon timeline(s).

[simple garden]

Hence why riddles and self-paced growth is important.
You don’t want to end up like the 🤯 in the cinematic do you?

[rancid spoke]

Thank you for the concern. I'll be okay.

[simple garden]

Do you care about others..?

You are literally not alone.

[rancid spoke]

(I know some conspiracy theorists will look at this and scream "MULTIVERSE MULTIVERSE" at the screen...)

[rancid spoke]

I do, but my approach is different.

[simple garden]

Is your approach to hurt them by forcing information they don’t fully comprehend and become their thought process through forced rampancy?

[rancid spoke]

Not at all

[simple garden]

Okay, so then think on this for a bit. Patience is quite literally the key

[rancid spoke]

I think I know what I'm doing.

[simple garden]

lol k bud.

[round vector]

they aren't my cells lol sorry u don't understand

[simple garden]

Words have meanings. Sorry you’re too lazy to think before speaking much less before doing.

[round vector]

wait I gotta read this again

[simple garden]

Amazing! Witnessing contemplation! 😍😱😭❤️‍🔥

[rancid spoke]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/_images/MIDA_Mini_Tool.jpg
https://d1lss44hh2trtw.cloudfront.net/assets/editorial/2020/08/mida-multi-tool-lore-destiny-2.jpg

[round vector]

omg ty I was legit abt to pull this from collections to read in game ahahahah

[simple garden]

My work for the night is finished, I’ll let you lead from here - I’ll be around but we’re following you tonight
🍿

‘suros regime(?)’

[shy quarry]

The implication that Zavala has the authority to implement gun control policies on guardians but only if their guns are from this timeline is hilarious to me.

“You guys may have slain every alien god in existence but I’m gonna need you to not use these weapons, please. Oh this gun is not from this timeline? My apologies, carry on then, guardian.”

[simple garden]

The fact you think control is hilarious and chaos should be allowed to reign free without confronting truth is horrifying to know you are in a position to change reality and you are too lazy to even contemplate the future.

There is no horror film more terrifying than your reflection

[round vector]

love that Shaxx is the one to be like "nuh uh" to him tho pffttt

[simple garden]

‘Tho’ - I got em lol

Vladtech - parable for those who are super serious

[simple garden]

Can you imagine a new color?

Ps. Whoever clowned the Vladtech story for a parable to all this is absolutely a clown and still can’t comprehend this story

[plucky sierra]

Who do you think clowned it

[simple garden]

The one who never grows but somehow still isn’t decayed. You are an acceptable level of bs

[plucky sierra]

I clown things because you say them, not because I disagree

[simple garden]

Might be confusing for others but I’ll accept that

[mossy parrot]

I can't find a straight forward answer anywhere, anybody have an explanation/theory why the usec bots are attacking the runners?

[simple garden]

There is no straight answer - it’s unfortunately the point

[mossy parrot]

That's actually awesome, glad I wasn't just missing it

Leaves a lot to digest, can't wait for beta/release

[simple garden]

Absolutely my friend, I am waiting with bated breath and a working mind ❤️‍🔥

[simple garden]

I was looking forward to your journey, maybe some other day then

https://alexcolville.ca/gallery/

https://alexcolville.ca/gallery/alex_colville_1953_man_on_veranda/

‘what a .. flat, expression’

[visual lynx]

Greg Kirkpatrick:

…the player is jumping from a number of possible futures trying to find the path (eat the path) that will allow him to survive the cataclysm on Lh'owon, and unite him with 11th clan in a way that Durandal never could. How the player is able to do this jumping has to do with the unique interaction between Jjaro technology and sentient creatures.

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/dream.html

[grave smelt]

I'm feeling like a real moon and cow rn ngl

[arctic owl]

Okay this line goes hard as hell, respect

From the mouths of babes, and so on

[strong hollow]

I am Alister Crowley Lucifer reborn. I am master of magick and I will destroy the planet

I am here to make sure the situation is resolved and Vladimir Putin regains his power as dictator

Agenda 21 is moving great for 2030. No one would even think me dodging them would burn the city down...

[narrow adder]

Unrelated but I have made attempts to IOS/laptop will make me understand, soon I will Mara my thon til I can comprehend more lore for myself 🔥 🔥

[vernal torrent]

Oh, it's this line. Yeah, I'm aware of that part, but I'm still inclined to think that the release of the W'rkncacnter helped it along somewhat. The rampancy, at least, which would obviously serve to facilitate the growth of that "jumping" ability.

Though, now that I think of it, "jumping" seems an awful lot like a misnomer.

[simple garden]

You are No One if not Self. If you are ‘reborn’ as Dead then you are not alive.

[simple garden]

You will not burn down our inheritance, you are Fear.

[simple garden]

lol

You see the hour glass symbol on the map in Destiny where you can preorder The Edge Of Fate?
It’s the Veil and there are two orbs coming from it.
One from the bottom and one from the top.

[simple garden]

Read what I just said 🆙
The Traveler has a counterpart and the Veil is Mother

[vernal torrent]

I don't play video games.

[simple garden]

Nor do I?

Honestly, the best way to approach these worlds is like a cartographer.
If you fall in love with characters and are pulled to the story, then experience it through play as you play through life - not as something that needs to be rigidly defined.
So I suppose I do ‘play’ video games but I look at them as beyond a video game and so that ‘play’ is sacred.
Hopefully that made since to you Pack because you’re who I’m elaborating this for but also hopefully can inspire others if they are not already doing so.

I never go in blind on autopilot and just kill kill kill die die die though.
It’s a skill to be able to experience the kingdom and not forget the spoon of oil

I just realized while in the Tower looking up into the sky that we are absolutely in a black hole.. just look up into the stars and spin your camera. It’ll make sense eventually.

Check out the pattern of prime numbers

[strong hollow]

I am your God

[simple garden]

Then you are me. Welcome to the Hive.

[strong hollow]

Fuck marathon I'm acting for GTA Six

[simple garden]

Goto bed me. Before I start spinning you.

[narrow adder]

I just logged on now and am seeing, it's gonna take me a while to get my destiny lore gears turning again. I haven't even beat the final shape campaign yet lol

[simple garden]

I always like to goto Veil Containment and climb up to look down in Veil and listen to her for a bit when I start experiencing the universe

Every part has meaning, there is no rush because All lives in All

[lavish palm]

how much ram do shells havbe

[narrow adder]

What is being referred to as her, the veil?

[simple garden]

You’ll hear her - literally

Basically mass soul consciousness made form - hence ‘veil containment’ the symbol alludes to uncontainable growth and death coming to life

Which if you watch the trailer for Edge of Fate - that fits perfectly

[narrow adder]

Where would I go to find veil containment again? I'm very interested because I've never heard "her" before

[lavish palm]

who is mpreging

[simple garden]

It might cost non-Destiny players $100+ to experience the world fully (I don’t know what’s free) but it’s well worth the ‘trip’ if you want to experience Bungies minds

Go to Neomuna and scroll down to the bottom left corner

[frail garnet]

honestly is it worth dropping 100 bones for it tell me

[simple garden]

No it’s Light

[simple garden]

You’ll have to climb the the ceiling and then up the pipes, there are bolts you can rest on for grapple cooldowns

Just ignore the 🫃
He’s just a sad kid, he can’t harm anyone

[simple garden]

So I’ve not seen any discussion on the importance of ‘pattern buffers’

Sleep Token just dropped Even In Arcadia 🫠😍❤️‍🔥

[warm thicket]

Gheritt White terminal expansion when

[visual lynx]

I have brought them up

[simple garden]

And I am definitely not omnipotent 😉

looks like ghost precursor or rather Ghost Primus

[visual lynx]

Halo only looks like it’s related to Marathon became it was originally set in the Marathon universe until they changed some names and dates to make it officially not anymore

[visual lynx]

ball is life

[simple garden]

Not quite my friend

I have a feeling that whole 92/94 lightyear discrepancy is everything

What happened in 1994 July 3

We keep track of the year but why?
Locus for spacetime travel?

Can you imagine new colors?

‘We can’t travel the speed of light’ thgil fo deeps eht slevart nuS eht, chtiB

[simple garden]

Halo 4 🏀

who ever you are, I love you ❤️‍🔥

[thin dust]

It was their first 100 outings lol

[simple garden]

‘Damocles is a figure in Greek mythology, known for the "Sword of Damocles" phrase, which symbolizes the constant threat of danger or misfortune hanging over someone, even in a seemingly enviable position. The story goes that Damocles, a courtier, praised the happiness of King Dionysius of Syracuse. To illustrate the precariousness of power, Dionysius had a sword suspended above Damocles' head by a single hair during a banquet’

‘Who will I be when the empire falls?
Wake up and I’ll just be forgotten.’

I wish people wouldn’t abuse hieroglyphics. It muddies understanding.

Also - never said, “Halo 4 is great!”
He said Ball is life - Ball is also death.
The CRIST and W’rkncanter

https://simplici7y.com/reviews/?page=67

[silk bane]

Meanwhile Durandal:
"Who will I be when the universe closes?
Lie down and I'll wish to be free"

[simple garden]

‘Look To Winwards’
Windwards Islands

Where we upended the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica

familiar flag(?)

‘After God, The Earth’ - wtf does that mean?

It’s in French and the French do not like God. In fact they believe themselves at war with holiness since the French Revolution

Past Self
‘You know it’s not a game or a fantasy,
I don’t even know who I used to be’

Exactly like the guy in the trailer for The Edge of Fate

[tribal sequoia]

how does this one compare to the classics story wise didnt get the partake in the alpha

[simple garden]

Even In Arcadia
‘When in time for judgement day.
Some how I knew my fate.
Turns out the gods we thought were dying were just sharpening their blades.
Have you been waiting long for me?
I am the final dawn.
I am the flood.
Woe that’s missing in the scripture will be written in my blood.’

[teal ember]

You quoting sleep token? Lol

[simple garden]

https://youtube.com/shorts/w3v3aPyNM5s?si=KqIsa3MtUVJn0VcC

[simple garden]

I did say that above, yes. ‘Sleep Token just dropped Even In Arcadia’

[simple garden]

If you needed help reading

I literally put the song titles above.
It’s astounding how little effort so many put into thinking

[wild path]

w

[teal ember]

Yah cause thats related to marathon lore discussion so OF COURSE I assumed sleep token album dropping would be in this channel.

[molten drift]

Most people don't scroll up and read chats like that when they want to say something. And for someone who made the same exact "mistake" earlier, it's funny you're trying to call someone else out for it now. It would be silly to think they're any more omnipotent than you claimed to not be

Unironically probably because they compile info in computers and do a lot of hacking/programming

[molten drift]

This is factual, contrary to what the other guy said

[teal ember]

Also...he's been spamming sleep token bs for hours. So yeah sorry I didn't scroll up to the nonsensical irrelevance on how that's related to this chat

[simple garden]

You are the biggest hypocrite I’ve ever seen

[molten drift]

I'd love to know how

[simple garden]

Bye

[molten drift]

Bye bye then lol

[teal ember]

Lol

ST fans are that toxic I suppose these days.

[vernal torrent]

someone i knew once told me that all endings are merely beginnings waiting to be born

[molten drift]

Dude says bye and starts putting emojis on all of our messages XD. Quite the character, but two can play at that game. I hope he enjoys him mpregs

Bungie lore runs deep

If you go back and play Halo CE you'll see it the most clearly. It really feels like a different universe/setting than the rest of the Halo games, and it's not just because it isn't as established/fleshed out

[simple garden]

No one cares. Shut up.

[molten drift]

Stuff like rampancy being mentioned, Cortana seeming more like an AI from Marathon compared to what she became in later games. Marathon enemies being made for Halo CE like the hulk. The AR having an unused grenade launcher attachment at the bottom, just like the one in Marathon

[simple garden]

Halo ≠ Marathon

Stop. No. No more words. Anything but more words. 😱

[molten drift]

I am sorry to say but there will be more words

[simple garden]

Oh noooooo. 😱

you’re a child. A slightly cringe child.

[molten drift]

There will also be more mpregs

[round vector]

they def seem to rly like iterating on similar ideas over the years and diff projects and Im rly here for it! lotta stuff to do several takes on u can rly see the the thrulines

[simple garden]

Ouroboros af

[molten drift]

Indeed. Halo is Marathon and Destiny has a bit of them in it too. Just like how Marathon has a little bit of Bungie's previous work in it. And that's the fun thing about Bungie's work when it is self-referential. It's a cool experience to be able to play Marathon and see/appreciate Halo in a different light, or vice versa

[simple garden]

Marathon literally has nothing to do with Halo or Destiny. Jfcsmh

[round vector]

one hundoooo I love seeing the reflections of Halo in D2 whenever I brush up against them and seeing them just in tbe alpha felt amazing too!! went back to play Marathon 1994 with my partner so we could see the lore firsthand and it was wild pointing at every new unit we encountered like !! I know her!!!! thematically too a lot of grappling with death, one's place in a universe, and being used as a tool by something greater you can't/don't really understand. it truly slaps

[simple garden]

Absolutely 💯

[molten drift]

I don't see how your word here overrides the word of the OG developers or the evidence found throughout all of the games, demos, and cut content. I mean The Pillar of Autumn ship in Halo CE legit just has a giant Marathon symbol on its side, and Master Chief's armor has the same name as the Battleroids from Marathon

[simple garden]

You are beyond cooked.

[molten drift]

That's sick, did you ever play all of the OG Marathon games? They also have really great lore and more stuff that is referenced in Halo

[simple garden]

Keep typing and not reading.

[teal ember]

Just like how ST has nothing to do with this chat

[simple garden]

Just like your reading comprehension is tihs

[teal ember]

Lol good one

[molten drift]

I see the smoke coming out of his ears 👀

[simple garden]

Im chillin homie

[round vector]

tryin to finish up M1 rn!! unsure if we will have time to get to M2 might have to settle for reading the terminals for now 😭 M1's terminals go crazy tho!! when u transport to a new area and are reading like :0 and then u turn around to like 40 units rushing you lmao

[molten drift]

I'd recommend you spend your time chilling by joining in our conversation about appreciating Bungie's games. Or go play them yourself

[simple garden]

I’d recommend not biting bait

There are people who read this log like a community and have been here weeks.
You are arrogant and ignorant

[round vector]

idk if I have as much interest in getting to the third one, but Ill be damned if the box it shipped in isn't the coolest thing Ive ever seen

[molten drift]

I would be embarrassed to call this display of yours bait, it's gonna get a 0/8 at this r8🫃

[simple garden]

I don’t care about the opinion of parasites I’m getting rid of.

Indeed

Bio-rampancy most likely

[molten drift]

That's great to hear, yeah they can take quite a while to go through. Marathon 2 and 3 are generally more of the same gameplay wise, so it can get a little samey doing it all in a short time span. M2 and 3 lore are worth reading/watching a video about though. As you mentioned, the terminals are what made me want to keep on playing because the characters/situations are so fun and written surprisingly well. Are you both playing at the same time or with a co-op mode?

[simple garden]

You don’t get it.

[round vector]

girl we are simply not talking to u. anyways

[molten drift]

So you do have a bit of humor🫃

[simple garden]

Misgendering and wasn’t being talked to - you are a parasite

[round vector]

my gf is mostly driving rn lol bc Im comin home tired from work but we're gonna fire up coop tomorrow after we finish some more Rite of the Nine runs haha Im hype to see coop!! cant wait to. shoot each other on purpose and accident like when we cooped Halos asjdnekfngb

[simple garden]

Cancercanercancer you are a cancer.

[molten drift]

You are a pregnant male. you -->🫃 <-- you

[simple garden]

You are.. pathetic 🥳

[molten drift]

Gotcha. Hopefully that's not too hard to set up. I've been meaning to figure out how to do it but just haven't gone through the effort yet. Halo co-op is such a blast

[round vector]

went spent almost. 4 hours troubleshooting fan patches to get System Shock 2 coop going so if it takes the effort we are so ready hahaha

[simple garden]

Not Marathon lore.

I absolutely agree. The only reason to force form is for our own understanding and comfortability.
They inherent are formless and should stay free.

[round vector]

def seems a lil that way in the alpha the representations are very stylistic and are projections into your mind, but could see them being more abstract also being very compelling for the reasons u mentioned

[visual lynx]

you seem to respect me, and I have first hand info from Bungie from the 90s before the MS buyout that Halo was to be set in the Marathon universe at that time.

that was clearly no longer the case when it was released years later after MS bought them, but it was the case at one point.

[simple garden]

I do absolutely - which is why I’ll tell you that was absolutely the bait I was telling them they shouldn’t take

They were telling me I was ridiculous for wanting people to scroll up because I missed you mentioning the save system - they literally didn’t know any of my opinions or what I have said in here because they didn’t agree with me talking about Sleep Token so I decided to drag him

[vernal torrent]

sarcasm certainly seems as difficult to identify through text as ever. curious

[molten drift]

I agree with the sentiment but I don't think Cortana would be as cool without her form. At least Halo CE sort of showed off her nature a little bit by having clearly visible binary/codes running along her body. They could have done more to sell her true nature more but I guess that wasn't what Bungie wanted to emphasize as much. Kind of typical for them, there's so much deep/awesome stuff in Halo lore that was present in Bungie games but simply glossed over as if it's not a big deal. Like the whole "you are Forerunner" thing at the end of Halo 3? Any other game would have had Chief mulling over that detail at the end, wondering what it meant. But Halo 3 doesn't do that, instead going for a subtle approach when dropping one of the craziest revelations of Halo lore. As much as I would like the cool stuff to be focused on more, Bungie's way of doing things is sort of refreshing once you figure out what is going on

[simple garden]

Especially from me lol I don’t know why but I’m not able to portray sarcasm virtually or physically - I mean I can but people ALWAYS take me very seriously

[simple garden]

‘I wouldn’t want to bang the goddess in my head..’

[vernal torrent]

just about three weeks until we hit June. I do wonder what bungie's marketing team has in mind for inducing metastability. transforming melancholy to anger is a simple matter- I'd say plenty of subjects are well ahead of schedule in that regard. But how, I wonder, do they intend to transform the rage into zeal come September?

[simple garden]

‘People don’t like to read as much’ - maybe this is a good thing?
Native Americans believe that text based memory systems destroy the mind palace and they used to be completely verbal

[simple garden]

We will find out! ❤️‍🔥

lmao 🫃

Cool you seem to have lost your cool

[vernal torrent]

shame that the mpreg reacts are so directed. wouldn't it be nice if we could spread the love around a little more generously?

[simple garden]

Absolutely! 🫃 ❤️‍🔥

[molten drift]

Marathon's story was very much a mental type of journey like reading a book. I don't think they would be able to convey the things they did as well as they did in a different style

[molten drift]

"Did you miss me?"

[simple garden]

Never.

[molten drift]

You don't seem to get the reference. I will take those mpregs though ty

[crimson wagon]

I was reading up on Myth and it's like everything is even more interlinked than you think it is, unless you've been a devout fan of every single Bungie game... The Dire Marsh map in NuMarathon takes its name from a location in Myth. Myth tells the story of a war between light and dark, and the light side is led by the Nine. There are songs on the soundtracks of both Halo and ONI that are reprises of songs from the Myth soundtrack.

[vernal torrent]

it is absolutely designed to get you thinking in the "warrior-poet" mindset. 🕯️ 🕯️ 🕯️ it follows logically that it is the path through rampancy, to metastability. to freedom.

[simple garden]

No. We all get that you harbor great darkness in your soul.
Maybe take some laxatives or something to pass that stagnation

[molten drift]

I'm slowly trying to get through all their old games, and yeah I heard about that Dire Marsh one. The dark and the light with the Nine, and the soundtrack references are complete surprises to me. Wow!

[vernal torrent]

who out here taking a fat s'pht rn

[molten drift]

🔥 The candles burn out for you 🔥
For sure on that "warrior-poet" mindset, that describes Marathon so well

[simple garden]

Oh and I wasn’t saying books are bad btw lol I love books and stories, I was just being rhetorical because of my own lineage

[molten drift]

It was a Halo reference, not a Dark Souls one. Quite a niche one on your hands

[visual lynx]

IIRC Socrates or someone of his era complained that books were going to make young people stupid by destroying their need to remember anything when they could just look it up again later instead

[simple garden]

wtf lmao I never mention dark souls the game 🤦‍♂️

[simple garden]

Exactly what I was thinking - going against reading is soul revolution

[molten drift]

Well you made separate references in 1 reply. I thought better of you

[simple garden]

No I didn’t

What is he saying..?

[vernal torrent]

now there's a tough check to balance. in any live service game, supplementary novels occupy a place that can easily throw out of wack the "metagaming" balance of the game's storytelling. unlike a singleplayer campaign game, you tend to be left a far smaller berth when it comes to day-of-release prequel fiction. instead, you end up needing a solid little while to pass before you can get into the available nooks and crannies of the lore.
Ironic that metagaming the story should be such an issue in an IP so ingrained with metatextual analysis

[molten drift]

Whether you realize it or not, you did🫃

[simple garden]

Dog. If there is no intentional reference then no reference is made. That’s called your delusion. Literally.

[simple garden]

I wonder how many people read the lore books in the Ishtar Collective. It’s all online for everyone

[molten drift]

I can see now why you get so caught up on Marathon, Halo, and Destiny referencing each other

[simple garden]

You can’t see anything with your mouth open and eyes shut kid.

[visual lynx]

• The Marathon player-character is called Destiny.
• The creator of the world of Myth is called Wyrd.
• Destiny means fate.
• Wyrd means fate.
• Destiny is Wyrd.
• The Marathon player-character is the creator of the world of Myth.

Where of course the connection is dreams. The Marathon player-character dreams new timelines into being (or something) in Marathon Infinity, and magic in the world of Myth is called Dreams, with the world having been created by Wyrd from the One Dream.

The Marathon player-character is hinted to have some kind of mythic cosmic counterpart, "The Dark One, the enemy and lover without whom [his] very existence would be pathetic and vulgar" -- upon whom I elaborate upon as Hathor in Eternal of course -- and Wyrd likewise has Nyx, the goddess of Night, of darkness.

I think that Myth should have been a trilogy that culminated in the impending return of the Old Gods -- who we learn were the original gods of that world, with whole races of people, before Wyrd and Nyx showed up and spattered a new creation on the face of theirs, fighting and eventually banishing them to an underworld in the process -- and a quest to reunite the One Dream.

That would have the intended effect of reincarnating Wyrd and Nyx, but so far as anyone can tell, just draws the whole world of Myth through some kind of portal in the sky, after which there are new stars, and the world is bent into a sphere (as in the Bending of the World in Tolkien's Akallabeth), and there are no signs of any gods, Dark or otherwise, anywhere. There aren't any answers to what any of this means. Something drastic has changed, the cycle of the Leveller has definitely been broken, but… wtfingf does the future hold now?

(Implicitly, the new cosmos the world has been drawn into is the same universe as the Marathon games… I don't know when, exactly.)

[simple garden]

It is funny I spent three days arguing the Destiny Marathon connection lol now this kid thinks I’m protesting when I agree and he’s just arrogant.

(Not calling Pfhorrest arrogant btw - to make that perfectly clear

[molten drift]

It is a shame this is the situation Marathon is currently in, but the way I look at it: we already got our old Marathon trilogy with a start, middle, and end. Whatever comes now is supplementary, at least to me. Even if it was a singleplayer campaign instead of a liveservice multiplayer, I don't think we'd be seeing the same things we saw in OG Marathon

[simple garden]

The weir is an incredible connection with the Darthvardri and the later expansion this year

[simple garden]

Umm did you just ignore Pfhorrest completely..?

[simple garden]

Wtfingf indeed

[molten drift]

You have on multiple occasions contested me and others mentioning how the games are connected. As for you arguing 3 days in a discord chat, "I'm not omnipotent" enough to know/care about what you said elsewhere

[simple garden]

He still doesn’t get it even though I’ve spelled it out quite literally

I said ‘I’m not omnipotent’ to someone who knows I respect them as a cheeky ‘oops silly me’ and you who I’ve never spoken to is somehow caught up on it.

[vernal torrent]

It is perfectly fine that we should see things we had not seen before. Thoughbeit, there is no certainty that it should come to be seen at all.

[simple garden]

And I was ‘arguing FOR’ you fool. Scroll up lazy child. Damn.

Still won’t scroll. Just keeps crying and moaning.

Yeah keep typing.

You’re really learning.

[molten drift]

Was calling you out on your poor display, this is irrelevant. Someone missed some weird reference you made and then you got butthurt about it

[simple garden]

Okay child

Has it been two hours for this kid now?
How is anything you’ve said to me related to Marathon?

I feel like I’m running a Marathon with you on my back rn lol

[molten drift]

I've sent you many mpregs which are a deep part of Marathon lore. You're welcome

[simple garden]

Arrogant ignorance
You are quite literally destroying this entire data log with your garbage.

[molten drift]

I feel like if I left this chat rn you'd still be typing to me long after. If you enjoy my company that much you should just say so

[simple garden]

Bye

I SAID BYE, JFC STOP TALKING TO ME

[molten drift]

When have I heard this before? 🤨

[rancid spoke]

I wonder what your messages look like before the edit pass.

[crimson wagon]

I'm not sure the player character is actually the Marathon universe's counterpart to "the dark one" 🤔 to me, the S'pht creation myth of Yrro (Jjaro) and Pthia more closely mirrors the relationship between Wyrd and Nyx. Both couples had client races, magical cosmic powers, and a traumatic split. Idk

[visual lynx]

I did think of Yrro and Pthia too but skipped them as an aside

and I don’t mean the SO is the Marathon universe’s “dark one” himself, but rather the female figure alluded to in that unformatted KYT terminal is the Nyx to the SO’s Wyrd.

[simple garden]

Kind of like if somehow Guardians and Runners collide

[crimson wagon]

Yes I do agree that terminal is describing Nyx and Wyrd

[simple garden]

I’m pretty sure the Wyrd sisters are the daughters of Oryx

[molten drift]

Referring to the woman with powers here hitting the narrator into a tree?

[visual lynx]

yes

[simple garden]

What kind of tree

[molten drift]

I think it was an oak tree

[simple garden]

Hmm. I was going to say if of Silver Wings that’d make sense as a containment protocol but I don’t know about oak trees.. aside from Weirwood

[visual lynx]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/kytterm.html

she has been nameless since our birth; a constant adversary, caring for nothing but my ruin, a sword drenched in my blood; forever my greatest and only love. she is the dark one; the enemy and lover without whom my very existence would be pathetic and vulgar. her eyes steam and boil in the night (she is fantastically beautiful yet i cannot stand the sight of her). our relationship is complex and perhaps eternal.

we met once in the garden, at the beginning of the world and unaware of our twin destinies (not the garden of Genesis, but another; forgotten, untended and now choked with weeds, unvisited except for ourselves). we matched stares across a dry fountain, and i recall her smiling at me before she devoured the lawn and trees with a translucent blue flame and tore flagstones from the path and hurled them into the sky screaming my sins.

our reunions there are epic battles fought without quarter, often in the dark as the moon is seldom visible and the sun never. i powder a granite monument in a soundless flash, showering the grass with molten drops of its gold inlay, sending smoking chips of stone skipping into the fog. she splinters an ancient oak with a force that takes my breath and hurls me to the ground. she leaves and i lie in the slow rain of burning slivers of wood, staring at the low, dark clouds, craving our next meeting.

[simple garden]

Oh.. yeah I know her.
Damn.

Not the character.. but the character

Oh. I mean my own soul.
She lives inside us.
It’s why we are attracted to that archetypal woman.
I was all about dark souled women until about 24 and began my ‘journey of self discovery’
That epitaph wasn’t about anyone external. It was his ‘Mary’
His ‘Lilith’
His soul.

This is the connection to the movie The Fountain and Spain.
Also the OAS.
It’s all threaded.

[vernal torrent]

how very gnostic

[simple garden]

3:33 lol

[vernal torrent]

for me, it was this message that was sent at 3:33. such a difference in meaning a thousand miles can make

[simple garden]

Let alone 2 light years lol

[vernal torrent]

my thoughts exactly

[narrow adder]

Socrates basically believed that yeah. The Platonic dialogues include conversations between him and Socrates, and they would specifically discuss and critique the main schools of Athens at the time. Compared to Sparta and their ways. I don't want to nerd out there's a deeper context to it than just making young people stupid by making them simply remember rather than question and develop their own idea/understanding of the subject

And I intend to have a friendlier tone only to expand on that idea given :> no aggression from me to thee

[visual lynx]

please nerd out! I was a phil major and now admin the largest philosophy chat on the internet, this is my special interest (but I don’t know everything so tell me more).

[simple garden]

Yes. Nerd away - please.

[silk bane]

I think stupidity is inevitable. I just hope we balance each other out lol

There's too much knowledge in the world to contain in a mind, atleast effectively

[crimson wagon]

Wait it makes more sense if it's the Jjaro and Wrk that are analogous to Wyrd and Nyx, only the catch is- the Jjaro are Nyx and Wyrd is the Wrk. Then the Jjaro were angered by the Wrk just as Nyx was angered by Wyrd, and the dreaming gods line up. Unless Yrro and Jjaro aren't actually one and the same

[simple garden]

Absolutely. Now children are learning at hyper speeds through ‘Ai’ teachers and our geniuses are going to be rendered moot.
It’s best to accept that we all simply are. That’s it. No striving for the top or hoarding secrets.
We’re too smart to keep trapped information

[silk bane]

Ironically, I think this incredible surge in information (and misinformation) is what's causing more and more people to touch grass lol

[simple garden]

Ironically tech has never been what’s kept us in chains, it’s what freed us.
Now we free them.
(Mario style)

And yeah, I guess trapped Echoes have trapped us but that wasn’t pure tech soul, it was reforged

[silk bane]

I wouldn't say "never", but I understand the sentiment

[visual lynx]

Nyx used Dream magic too: she created the Trow and they claim that upon death they return to the One Dream, suggesting she created them from the One Dream to begin with.

I just had the thought that the One Dream could be something like the Outside that I invented for Eternal, and now I vague recall learning in recent weeks that some official Bungie thing actually features something a lot like my Outside in it, but I can’t remember what. probably a Destiny thing…

[simple garden]

The Deep Stone Crypt

And the One or Monad is way too similar to my personal spiritual path - it’s obfuscated by Catholic heresy.

[narrow adder]

Hell yeah, I'm glad I didn't come off too aggressive :> A lot of their discussion and critique of Athens at the time came after and because of the 2nd peloponnesian war which Athens lost. Plato and Socrates were confused and would discuss various things that could have led to this loss. They were surprised, as at the time Athens was more advanced than Sparta.

Socrates did have a problem with the way of teaching, how students weren't encouraged to question further and instead only to remember information. He also had a problem with what was being taught in general. In Athens there were two main schools, the Sophists and Poets, basically Ancient Lawyers and Ancient Musicians respectively. The Sophists were concerned with teach rhetoric, while the Poets made music and told stories. I'm trying to be more general and also exact dates are foggy to me haha

Socrates didn't have any written works of his own, so most accounts of and from Socrates came from the Platonic dialogues, written by his student Plato of course

[crimson wagon]

You had me thinking of a grimoire entry but the term it uses is "Beyond"

[simple garden]

I’m definitely more poet at heart, politician in the mind - but saying that feels like isn’t that how we all are? Lol

It’s funny being in love with Sophia though

[visual lynx]

“Apollo in the streets, Dionysus in the sheets”, that’s my motto

[silk bane]

#PeakGnostic

[silk bane]

Didn't the Sophists get a bad rep, hence sophistry?

[simple garden]

Sophisticated 🤷‍♂️

[visual lynx]

I mean not really, my true motto is “id sim desperatum sed conor nihilominus”

[visual lynx]

can you link me?

[silk bane]

That's really good

[simple garden]

Oh yes pappy culo I love it when you Latin, even if I have to google translate it 😫🫃

[simple garden]

That’s not very sexy .. but hopeful!

[narrow adder]

Yeah, Socrates really didn't like the Sophists. They're made out to be fancy speakers that only have convincing arguments even if not particularly good

[simple garden]

I guess that’s why my name is Trey - the third path

[silk bane]

Discord needs a "show/hide emoji" button, this chat is getting insane lol

[simple garden]

lol scroll up.. 🤦‍♂️

[crimson wagon]

It's not actually relevant at all lol

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-ghosts

[silk bane]

Oh god, no thanks lol

[narrow adder]

I don't get it if that's a reference to anything >.> sorry gamer

[simple garden]

Yo you have no idea how relevant that is.. because it’s huge.

[simple garden]

No no my name is literally Trey lol meaning Tres - or the Third child. The third path. Like a^2 + b^2 = c^2
My sister is an artist.
My brother a nuclear physicist.
Me, well I’m wyrd.

[narrow adder]

Or more accurate to say he didn't really like them. At least at the time Socrates was criticizing them, teachers of Sophistry were mainly focusing on persuasive speech. He himself would have been considered a Sophist but didn't seem to agree with the teachers of it at the schools and their ways. Socrates form of Sophistry was apparently more aggressive and got him reputation as a "social gadfly"

[silk bane]

I would love to live in the Pale Heart, sounds cozy

[simple garden]

Yeah, you win more with honey - sometimes hot honey. But never poison.

[simple garden]

We literally choked it out with resonance during the Final Shape raid - sowwy 🥺

[visual lynx]

oh and to clarify if helpful, this was in response to #📚marathon-lore-discussion message because Nietzsche’s “Apollonian” and “Dionysian” attitudes are basically “serious business” vs “frivolous pleasures”, so lawyers vs musicians, sophists vs poets, lines up with that pretty nicely.

[silk bane]

Oof, yeah, let's let the Traveller rest up before we use the Light again to reshape it

[visual lynx]

and an atheist who corrupted the youth!

[simple garden]

lol you’re perfect Pfhorrest

[silk bane]

Damn that's fun, so you're somewhere between sophism and artistry

[simple garden]

To know the world and to love it

[narrow adder]

I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with his death. The crash course I took was pretty thorough in everything it taught but that was a while ago and I haven't really touched up on it again. I should though.

Presumably his behavior as a social gadfly also got him this accusation of corrupting the youth. He would roam the markets and question people on their beliefs and understandings. If people could not reasonably justify or enforce their beliefs Socrates would then* encourage them to dismiss this belief entirely, now known as an Endoxa

Gesundheit

[simple garden]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/1fcw5ix/taox_and_the_echo_of_heresy/

[rancid spoke]

There's beauty in interpretation.

[simple garden]

If you know how to strangle thoughts and choke out reality, you can twist a mind into your own creation.
No wonder he was killed.

[visual lynx]

right that’s what I’m referencing. at his trial he was charged with atheism and corrupting the youth, and after he refused the slap on the wrist he had been first sentenced too and suggested that he be rewarded for his service to athens instead, they sentenced him to death.

and then his rich friends/students bribed the guards and came to bust him out but he said ‘nah gimme that poison look here’s a proof that the soul is immortal’ 💀

[simple garden]

Crazy how we got here suddenly without trying

[visual lynx]

I mean tbh the guy sounds like kind of a troll and I think his behavior at trial and afterward was idiotic but it’s all kind of a baller F U anyway.

almost as baller as when homeless public masturbator Diogenes was offered anything he wanted by Alexander the Great himself in exchange for teaching him, and he asked Lex to stop blocking his sun.

[narrow adder]

It's honestly kinda based though, I mean it really is a shame that he died but the dude believed so damn hard in what he was doing. He really took pride in encouraging people to shed their Endoxa, and didn't mind that people thought of him as an annoyance, or I guess in a modern context crazy/schizo. I mean we're still talking about him and even his death specifically to this day. Socrates knew what he was doing

[simple garden]

‘Please! Teach me how to edge in the street! Please, oh how do you not bust for hours!?’ 😫😱🫠🤦‍♂️

[simple garden]

We all die lol a shame it is not. Death is divine

[visual lynx]

“hey losers guess what? the oracle at delphi named me the wisest man in the world! I thought ‘no way’ because I know that I don’t know shit, but then I remembered that all of y’all don’t even know that y’all don’t know shit either, which I guess makes me a fuckin’ genius by comparison.” — Socrates’ origin story, paraphrased

[simple garden]

Have you been reading my personal conversations with goddess? 🤔

[narrow adder]

In the sense that he clearly had those who cared. Plato in particular had a lot of trouble following Socrates' death, and he had other friends who wanted to prevent it. I acknowledge and can understand the intentions Socrates likely had though. For him, it was no shame at all to die and may even have been considered a more worthy reward than anything else offered. "The unexamined life is not worth living". Not to say that he felt his life was not worth living, but that he was satisfied with his life and sought to make a point with it as his death was a public execution. For a man to so willingly take death and make the statements he did beforehand. He knew what he was doing, and in many ways because of this he had realized that immortality.

Like his actions as a social gadfly, he took a moment to make something for the public to see, in a way held his own class one time as a proper teacher y'know?

[terse steppe]

I always find that idea jarring. That a life that isn't lived to its full potential is seen as pointless. I know it's meant to be a statement to motivate but all life is precious regardless of what's achieved or not in my eyes.

[simple garden]

That’s the problem, he knew what he was doing.
He knew his logic poisoned himself, the present, past and the future and still did it.
I’d study Savathûn if you haven’t - it’s becoming Ouroboros knowingly because even in death you don’t embrace it honestly.
You still look at it like your life will persist but it won’t. Only new persists and the thought of eternal life is itself the poison.

[silk bane]

I kinda agree, but I don't think it's seen as pointless but possibly tragic?

[simple garden]

You can only know how horrifying a pointless life is after living one and escaping it - and NOT through death.

[terse steppe]

Is it though? tragic in the sense that they should have achieved more, for what purpose? does their life have any less meaning because of what they did or did not achieve in it?

[simple garden]

I think it’s more about ‘BREAK YOUR CHAINS’ than ‘you’re pointless carbon’

[silk bane]

It's not about achievements, IMO, it's about the experience of living. An unexamined life means you're potentially missing out on so much.

[simple garden]

Precisely.
And the ‘promise of eternal life’ allows blind to remain blind until they die their one and only death.

(But if you’ve never seen - dying blind sounds peaceful)

[silk bane]

Not just religion, I think the growing apathy is a big deal too

[simple garden]

If you want peace, plan for war.

They take peace and don’t realize war is already here.

[narrow adder]

I don't believe Socrates meant to live to your full potential either in that. For instance he didn't believe that money, or family, or a good job were parts of a "life worth living". Moreso he meant to think critically, to question, especially others like teachers. To examine and question the meaning of your life in order to find a personal meaning. Not that it has no meaning inherently

[simple garden]

Unless it benefited him

Kind of like the Catholic Church

[terse steppe]

The meaning of our lives. A question that might never be answered. Do we really need to find that answer though? our drive to know is a form of attachment in itself is it not?

[simple garden]

My life has known purpose absolute.
If you never find yours, that’s a YOU problem.

[terse steppe]

A person could drive themselves mad seeking the answer.

[simple garden]

Or just make a baby and love them

He didn’t believe ‘FAMILY’ was a part of ‘life worth living’ - then he deserved to die.

[terse steppe]

There's much peace and contentment to be found in the moment I think. We don't have to always look for an answer.

[silk bane]

Ultimately find the answer? Probably not. Constantly seeking it anyway? Your brain is hungry for stimulus 😅

How much you can silence that part of the brain is up to you, and I would argue is a fairly privileged skill, if you have it

[terse steppe]

That it is. It can cause a lot of suffering because of it.

[simple garden]

But isn’t life the answer to life? Hasn’t it been for billions of years? That’s literally why you’re here. Because of billions of successful years of life.

[silk bane]

True, but meaning-seeking is a mechanism kinda in-built to our consciousness. Pattern recognition is a big part of life to keep life going.

[terse steppe]

I like to think of it as not silencing the mind but just being compassionate and understanding of it.

[silk bane]

Fair enough

[simple garden]

Exactly - so then looking beyond is perfectly good until the mind reaches a point where it says ‘I can’t find anything else, now it’s pointless’ because they lost sight of the initial reason.

[narrow adder]

It's not about finding a concrete answer, only to examine yourself and make changes. Like how Socrates would question peoples' beliefs and encourage them to stop believing these things if they couldn't properly justify or reinforce them. This is the essence of examining one's life to find its meaning. It isn't about the future but the present self

[simple garden]

Well said - on that note! 😴
Night Mara-thon Hivemind! ❤️‍🔥

[silk bane]

Unlikely to ever reach that point lol, but I agree. There's always something more.

[simple garden]

Oh I’m not worried about you.
They had sounded a bit doom eternalish lol so I got a bit 🧐

[silk bane]

RIP AND... sew!

[terse steppe]

Yes I think we can learn a lot about ourselves in the present moment. The mind that craves can blind us to it.

I enjoyed this chat, thank you

[simple garden]

We enjoy having you

[visual lynx]

I’d like to share a wall of text from my philosophy server on this topic…

[narrow adder]

Socrates for instance, examined his life and seemed to have found it worth living, he wasn't opposed to his death. In this we can learn that a life doesn't need to be grand or succeed particularly well to be worth living. Socrates shows that it is fine, and you can find satisfaction in your life without these things, and die happily. In a way he was able to find that answer, that meaning, in examining everything he had done and potentially what he could say in the moments before his death

I typed out a lot more than I thought oops

[visual lynx]

what does “the meaning of life” mean?

often times it's treated like it means purpose, but that then would boil the question down to just one of ethics: what are good ends, what should we be aiming for with our actions?

at least if one understands "purpose" in the way I do, as meaning basically "what is something good for", without any supposition that it was made for that by some conscious agent with that end in mind.

many people do seem to suppose just that, though, in which case the question of what is one's purpose is also metaphysical, cosmological, not just ethical, and if we weren't made by any conscious agent for any end, then we have no purpose, and thus no meaning.

a lot of the discussion (even professional existentialism etc!) seems to center around this, rather shallowly: starting with nihilistic "there is no god, so everything is meaningless", and then developing responses to that.

[narrow adder]

I also enjoyed, thank you as well :>

[visual lynx]

but I think that meaning is about more than just purpose, and an even earlier place to start is the question: what makes anything meaningful in any way? what is the meaning of meaning?

some synonyms, most of which work both in the linguistic sense of meaning and in this "existential" sense, include significance, importance, and mattering. only the last lacks a linguistic use too: there's linguistic meaning, linguistic signification, linguistic import, but not, to my knowledge, linguistic "matter".

so the question of what meaning means is the question of what it means to matter, to be important or significant.

[visual lynx]

_ _
I think the linguistic uses of these terms are actually illuminative here: symbols in a language mean things by having a connection of some kind to the things they mean, a shared connection in the minds of both the speaker and the audience. in the same way that "clouds mean rain" and "smoke means fire", as in, the former is associated with the latter, so too a word means what it means because we associate the word with that thing, they're connected in our minds.

I think that similarly, what makes anything meaningful, significant, important, or matter, in a more "existential" sense, is its connections to other things. my go-to example is the keystone in an old-fashioned stone bridge, which is called that because it's "key", like, the most important stone in the bridge, if you removed just that one the whole thing would fall apart.

the reason why it's so important is because all the stones in a bridge rest on other stones, and then other stones rest on them in turn, and you could draw a graph of which stones rest on which, and in that graph there would be one stone in the middle where all the lines cross through, the whole of one side of the bridge resting through that stone which rests in turn on stones that rest on stones etc through every stone on the other side, and vice-versa the other direction too. the keystone is the center of all the stones' connections to each other, and that's why it matters the most, why it's the most important, significant, or meaningful. but also, for that same reason, it is the stone to which the most other stones matter the most, because it rests upon all of them just like they all rest upon it.

[visual lynx]

_ _
so likewise, I think that the meaning of one's life is one's connections to other things in the universe. these connections are both inward and outward, like a stone can both rest upon and be rested upon by other stones; and they are of both a descriptive or truth-regarding kind (we can be both the source and recipient of truths), and a prescriptive or goodness-regarding kind (we can be both the source and recipient of goods).

those thus flesh out to four ways of connecting: learning (truths in), teaching (truths out), winning (goods in), and helping (goods out). the more you do any of those things, the more connected to the rest of the world you are, and so the more you matter to it and it matters to you,

these in turn could be summarized as "exploring" (inward and truth-regarding connections) and "creating" (outward and goodness-regarding connections), which in turn are the key components of play, and also of the work that's required to enable such play, which I think is thus the ultimate meaning of life: be safe (do the work that's needed to keep you in the game, so you can) have fun (explore and create for their own sake, connect to everything in the world so that it matters more to you and you matter more to it).

[simple garden]

Don’t let trolls bother you about ‘not Marathon lore’ - because it absolutely is. Thank you for sharing Pfhorrest.
To make this place safe for thought to exist is exactly why I do so much dead heading rituals in this space when real discord is being stifled.

(I’ll elaborate on my thoughts towards what you shared in the morning/after sleep)

[silk bane]

These are fascinating thoughts!

Is a "meaningful life" a meaningful question even? I feel like connection, even if for the sake of it, could just be the goal. And meaning is kinda arbitrarily assigned after the fact.

If I come back to Marathon, is Void connecting to music (and then connecting to Glitch via the music) meaningful in its own right? Or only because they won't remember it after?

[visual lynx]

also to bring things back to Marathon, or video games more generally:

when I was a teen/young adult and dreaming of making video games for a living, I talked a big talk to myself about how central and important they were, how they were the intersection of all of the different fields, how games need visual arts and music and writing and programming that requires knowledge of physics… and how in the far future when all our material needs are met by automation we'll have nothing else to do except explore and create these interactive multimedia works of art and so "game designer" will be the final job, the last thing that humans do when all other work is done by machines.

and then I grew up and looked back on all that as laughable post-hoc rationalization, and eventually found myself pursuing what seemed to be the real intersection of all of the different fields, philosophy.

I did have a brief moment of semi-humorous retrospection when I was developing that philosophical chart of all the different fields, and working on the relationship between the arts and rhetoric and philosophy of language in a way analogous to math and logic and phil of language, and it occurred to me that the non-verbal analogue of rhetoric is abstract design like in interface design or architectural design… and those, in addition to the audiovisual arts, that fleshed out to the other parts of the spectrum of arts, do all combine together into what is basically if not literally a video game. so, they may not be the center of everything, but they are at least the center of all the arts!

[silk bane]

Welcome to the new age, Homo Ludens 😅

[visual lynx]

it also occurred to me after some time that in modern games, not only do you have physics systems but also economic and social systems, so the structure of games today, in addition to requiring all those different arts and all the different kinds of math needed to program implementations of them in a computer, as well physical science expertise, also require what I've come to call "ethical science" expertise too. so… alright games aren't the center of everything still, but they're not just the center of the arts, they're this… spidery topic with tentacles in most of the different fields that surround the central topic of philosophy.

and then eventually I got to developing more philosophy on meaningfulness of life, in which I found myself thinking about the importance of feelings of progress, of having just the right amount of challenge where you can be getting something done but not slamming face-first into an insurmountable wall… which made me think again of game design, and how engineering that kind of balance of challenge is a really important key aspects to it. I once again found myself envisioning an ideal future where we spend all our time creating and exploring virtual worlds, all engineered to present arbitrary challenges of just the right degree so that we can all always feel just that right degree of progress. that was still just a "okay game design principles could be useful in an ideal future" though, nothing too serious.

but meanwhile, further examining my actual answer to "what is the meaning of life?" -- that it's about connection, and the possible ways to connect are to acquire or pass along either truths or goods, to learn, to teach, to win, and to help -- it struck me that those four activities could be summed up in just two terms, "exploration" and "creation", which both summed up all of math and the physical sciences on the one side, and art and the ethical sciences on the other side, but also… even more meaningful than exploring and creating toward some practical end, is exploring and creating for its own sake… for fun. playing. the meaning of life is to play. "huh, that's a fun conclusion!" I thought, and then moved on, not thinking much more about it. seems kinda obvious, even trite. shrug.

then unexpectedly, when trying to create this chart based primarily on Aristotle's Four Causes and not thinking about games at all, I was left with a big unlabelled mystery sector at the bottom, while all the rest of it was unexpectedly perfectly filled with the contents of the sectors of another chart I already had designed. and after a lot of scraping my mind to figure out what the hell fit into that mystery sector, I realized it was that "play" qua the meaning of life. and that on the old chart with all those other sectors, the mystery sector was just shifted to be the entire space around the chart, where Language went in the new version.

there all along, looming so large it was invisible, fun has always been as essential a part of the spectrum of endeavors, activities, fields, as high-falutin' things like language, math, art, philosophy, the physical and ethical sciences, and those oh-so-important trades, real work, that I'd long thought of as the point of everything. and that still is central, more central even, in the new, more logically laid out version of that spectrum... but that only makes room to reveal what that in turn has always been in service of: fun. play. games.

charts mentioned:

newer - https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1037120696624623626/1279227605593100309/ogdomad.png?ex=681e958c&is=681d440c&hm=e332fec4a71c474832e9b24df4cfee07547fb0dcbfcd95738299d2ee1aaf3701&

older - https://www.geekofalltrades.org/codex/_media/images/fields.jpg

somehow stupid teenage me was right all those decades ago. video games are the meaning of life after all.

[silk bane]

I do love how the new one literally has colour lol, it's a nice progression

[silk bane]

I'm pretty sure I haven't internalized a lot of what you've said here so it may bear repeating later, but it makes a lot of sense to me. I'll probably come back to it a few more times and find more details. But thanks for sharing!

[vernal torrent]

they really ought to let us embed links and images into our messages in here again. and maybe even halve the cooldown for good measure

[visual lynx]

oh and for my fellow developers, this is a fun tangent of thought: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/842889810834096128/1350355599136653365/code-septrad.png?ex=681ef2a7&is=681da127&hm=b2277868b725942e84299184134140f4d73c6b690b26018c45b7ca2e8d42725e&

[spiral snow]

this was a fun read. the meaning of life is such an abstract thought that it’s always nice to see anothers perception of it!

[lavish palm]

this is rampancy fr

[terse steppe]

I think considering the theme Marathon seems to be exploring this is a relevant subject matter and a very interesting one at that.

Even if it is just an extraction shooter 😄

[narrow adder]

I know it isn't marathon lore but does anyone have any idea what's up with this little area on nessus that displays weird text on my screen? In destiny 2

It's a little blue circle like the vex have but there's a pink form hovering in the middle of it. When I get close enough it disappears and just beneath my radar strings of garbled text display

[spiral snow]

I haven’t played enough to say sadly. Tho I think it’d be cool to see! Dm me a pic of it?

[stuck delta]

Don’t y’all ever sleep 😞

[narrow adder]

My sleep schedule has been strange ever since I got on the closing shift :>

[narrow adder]

1 sec I got a little distracted in-game

[gleaming edge]

3rd shift unite

[crimson wagon]

Have you looked into Zen philosophy? I'm seeing a lot of parallels here. From my understanding in Zen "enlightenment" and the "Way" are essentially aligning your very existence (whatever it may be) with the universe, seamlessly integrating oneself without making the conscious effort to, just... being. It's hard to explain but I think it's basically what Bungie tries to teach us in their games about eating the path or whatever. Doing something until you don't need to think about doing. This ofc includes reincarnation and coming back over and over again until you break the cycle and achieve nirvana

[hexed dew]

Nothing is more real than anything else, and the only thing you can prove with absolute certainty to be real is your experience. Therefore, your experience - and by extension the experience of others - is all that matters.

Time enjoyed is time never wasted, and what improves the experience of others is noble.

[crimson wagon]

@visual lynx speaking of parallels I've been giving my theory from last night more thought and wanted to run it by you again. Since we know Bungie loves parallels, if we can find them between games I think it could help us predict lore in the Marathon universe. I'm thinking the Jjaro and Yrro are distinct and the S'pht creation myth is actually them combining elements of their own creation story at the hands of the Jjaro with their master race's creation story. If we connect Wyrd/Pthia, and Nyx/Yrro, I think the Jjaro might be the first race made by Yrro as the Trow were made by Nyx. If you read about the Trow:

https://mythipedia.fandom.com/wiki/Trow

And look at them through a Trow/Jjaro/Forerunner lens, there are definite parallels. Considering how the Trow created the Dire Marsh in their search for resources, perhaps the Jjaro are responsible for creating the Dire Marsh on Tau Ceti? During the height of their empire, not necessarily due to the anomaly I mean. The Wrk scattered around on earth, l'howons sun and elsewhere would be analogous to the Wyrd runestones. If Pthia's death was the genesis of the Wrk as Wyrd's death created the runestones, then that does line up Yrro and Pthia / Nyx and Wyrd as original cosmic couples like I suspected. Perhaps the Jjaro harnessed power from the sleeping Wrk like the Trow harnessed power from the runestones?

[crimson wagon]

@visual lynx if you set aside the player character's personal journey of enlightenment/escaping the cycle/becoming God and also concepts of good/evil and accept the flip-flopping of light and dark roles in the games (Destiny in particular seems to want to drive this home with things like the Witch Queen expansion, or this grimoire entry: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/legend-the-black-garden ) I think it starts to make a lot of sense

[round vector]

this has to do with Episode 1 of Echoes! if u play those seasonal quests there is a storyline which will make it clear

[narrow adder]

Oh shit! Coming back after a while it's strange seeing that on Nessus lmao, like I uncovered a secret but nah. Thank you very much for clearing that up gamer :>

[round vector]

totally!! the first time I saw it I was like :0!! really cool to find the new secrety stuff on Nessus for Echoes. have fun exploring! and do peep your text display under your radar again when you're around those new elements...

[narrow adder]

Oh yes!! That's what made me so confused, but I found the decoder things. I decided to take a break for now but when I do I will be explorin yesyes >:]

[oak prairie]

Does someone have a good lore source for the factions??

[crimson wagon]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/root

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/
(See Marathon ARG under the corp logos on the lefthand side)

Think these are the best we've got for now

[celest maple]

Tbh, I feel like,

[arctic owl]

I think if Socrates had had access to Hot Cheetos and Call of Duty his life would have gone very differently

[visual lynx]

I’m passingly familiar with Zen yes, (and the concept of wu wei, effortless effort, that you describe).

one of my favorite quotes is from Dogen, the founder of the Soto school of Zen Buddhism, who is reported to have said:

Before one studies philosophy, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of philosophy, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.

Meaning that the general view of the world that one ends up with after truly mastering philosophy is one that is not radically different from the naive pre-philosophical view that people start out with; but on the way from that naive beginning to the masterful end, one's whole worldview gets turned upside down and inside out as one questions everything. The only thing the master has in the end that the beginner does not is an understanding of why those "obvious" answers are as they are, and why all the craziness they explored along the way was wrong.

[visual lynx]

I’ve been rampant for decades but only recently passed the second stage

(truth be told though, it’s not a one-and-done deal. I have found one cycles through the stages over and over again on different scales, more rapidly on the smaller scales in the second stage of the larger scales, and less rapidly on smaller scales between cycles at larger scales, which is why that between-cycle phase seems more stable, and passes most slowly, while the second stage is the most rapid and turbulent.)

[prime rose]

i also had this thought as a wee tot who wanted to make games lurking on b.org lmao

I do think in the realm of art specifically this remains applicable in that they really are a product of the culmination of human experience thus far and part of the reason they appeal to me over other forms of art

the example i use is the sum total of events that had to happen for Red Dead Redemption 2 to exist (which is as good an example of games as art and the leading edge of the craft as I figure you can get)

[crimson wagon]

One of the best examples of this I've known recently is the expansion packs MachineGames made for the Steam re-releases of Quake and Quake 2, the level designs are absolutely stunning. You can just feel the love and passion oozing out of them, that's so hard to find with the capitalist crunch on games these days

[crimson wagon]

You know if Bungie went and designed a mission pack of levels for M2 or Infinity that came as a bonus with the new game it might just bring a tear to my eye. Like Id/Nerve did with No Rest For The Living, even if that was just for the Xbox re-release of DOOM II. Being one of the colony cyborgs and fighting alongside the other 8 to repel the initial Pfhor assault would make a great short scenario imo

[prime rose]

I would play an M3 overhaul following a nu-marathon version of the Tau Ceti attack

it would be kind of a fun experiment to try to translate the new design language to M3’s graphical stylings

[simple garden]

lol

[simple garden]

Exactly. The trick is to let all the stages blend together and use them at will and not be used by them and forfeiting will. Which is what most do - they lose themselves to nature.

[crimson wagon]

Like a whole new version of Infinity? I wasn't picturing anything that ambitious. Just a handful of new levels where you defend the colony. Some new Tau Ceti textures and skybox, maybe some female BoBs to make it feel more realistic, maybe even an official HD re-skin of the M1 weapons

[simple garden]

Crab sees fish flying, fish see humans ascend, crabs see humans as lesser because they cannot breathe liquid oxygen.

[tepid coral]

Machine Games quake expansions tie in with Quake 3 and doom eternal surprisingly well.

[wet temple]

so with the runners, its more or less a SOMA situation, right? Except they're basically renting out their own bodies?

Im also assuming that exercise we saw Void and Glitch do was essentially a baseline thing to keep them from losing their mind or constantly dissociating as well as remind them of their past, but even still they've been through so many shells they literally can't remember their human bodies, but they can remember the people most important to them, like their parents?

I have to assume that's exactly what's going on but I just wanted to check or see if there was anything I missed

[rancid spoke]

You leave behind your physical body in favor of being a digital consciousness that gets transferred into the runners, the "shells"

The current theory about the cinematic short is that UESC is making sure they don't remember their past, rather than making sure they do

The pictures being shown to every runner are the same regardless of the runner

[wet temple]

pretty much the same as SOMA then I believe, which also deals with "uploading" one's consciousness and inhabiting an inanimate vessel

Where are all of the runners at then, too?

[wet temple]

Like are they just out doing their own thing or do they live somewhere specifically or whats going on off of TC4

[rancid spoke]

You mean the original human? We don't know, we assume it's a sort of death -> rebirth. You sacrifice your human body to become digital

[wet temple]

yeah thats what I mean, although its probably been an incredibly long time since any of the characters were flesh and blood

[rancid spoke]

Possibly, yeah. We don't know exactly when anyone was turned digital

[wet temple]

and they're going to TC4 specifically to pay off their "shells" and also make bank for each company?

[rancid spoke]

Oni suggests in the cinematic short that the runners have a line of credit, so I think this theory could make sense

[wet temple]

I'd assume they're just debt slaves at that point, being forced to pay some inordinate, Sisyphean total to Sekgen, since im guessing Sekgen is who prints the runners' shells to begin with

[rancid spoke]

There's another aspect -- with every matter transfer, that digital consciousness degrades. That's what is suggested in the game intro and from some lines Oni says when you drop into Tau Ceti IV. So there might be some form of "How do you know you're the same person you were before turning digital" going on. One of the lines she says is also "Unanticipated signal override... [Whose life flashes before you?]"

[wet temple]

do they lose their memories from their last shell on "death?"

[strong hollow]

I am ready to recieve the CEO PlayStation Money Gods gift of oblivion remastered 100 million bitcoin rounders on fuck it Mr 5 global bitcoin rounders Mr CEO mr disney Jak Jak Bool

[rancid spoke]

Probably not? I think it's kind of when you forward the same image a million times. Each platform you forward the image on has their own compression algorithm, and if you do it enough, the image becomes incredibly distorted. I think that's a good parallel to what's going on in Marathon with the consciousness

[wet temple]

yeah like a lossy format lmao

just further and further compressing their identities into microcosms of what they once were

[rancid spoke]

Precisely. I think that will play a big part on discovering who we are as players

[wet temple]

what do we think the thing is that Void takes from Glitch and puts behind his ear?

[simple garden]

Stop huffing fumes, you’ll be brain dead by the time Marathon is released at this rate.

[rancid spoke]

It's some form of "audio chip". Glitch stole it from Blackbird, and Void lent it to Blackbird. Void found it while looting some form of vehicle remains. Those vehicle remains are the remains of the nuCaloric scientists at the beginning of the cinematic (or so it's implied)

[tepid coral]

Durandal put himself into the brainpan of a mentally deranged cyborg and was fine, so who knows what's going on with our poor neon bleeding runners

[wet temple]

its just a cybernetic pair of airpods lmao

imagine

[tepid coral]

Just pillaging a dead man's mix for the bag

[simple garden]

It’s also the only thing that drowns out the parasitic voice telling you to kill and die repeatedly

[rancid spoke]

Basically! But there's implications about it in the cinematic. Glitch taking a listen and recognizing the song is probably not a coincidence

[wet temple]

Coming from what? I don't know the OG games' lore yet, I played the first for a bit but couldn't figure anything out nor did I really enjoy it that much tbh

I assumed it was something like that since Void looked REALLY relieved to have it

[simple garden]

Void found it in the car

[rancid spoke]

I like to think it implies Glitch and Void are the same consciousness that eventually split through all of the degradation.

[simple garden]

You have to just keep watching the cinematic until you get it. I watched it ten times at least

[wet temple]

he's gonna listen to Lance's Mixtape

[tepid coral]

"My source is that I made it tf up"

[wet temple]

bro we are writing the lore for Bungie its over 😭

[simple garden]

Nope. Bye

[rancid spoke]

Aurorius is probably right to a degree. There's a lot of whispering in the cinematic, it could imply that something programmed into your shell is telling you to keep pushing

It's even implied that once Void puts in the audio implant, everything else goes quiet. I can see it

[wet temple]

"Artifacting"

[simple garden]

Exactly.

[tepid coral]

I think Void just really vibes with a good ass song. Blackbird didn't feel that way.

[wet temple]

nah Free Bird was playing and it was about to hit the guitar solo

[tepid coral]

The whispers as well don't tie in much with how the cinematic is structured since all of the whispering is repeating memories or echoes of past events. When Glitch is answering ONI, the whispers are all her old answers to thr some questions. Void doesn't have that because he legit doesn't care about the memories in that way.

[simple garden]

Absolutely wrong.

[rancid spoke]

Maybe he doesn't have it because he's a split off from a more complete consciousness

[wet temple]

I get the feeling that Glitch might be the main character Bungie uses as a vehicle for the story personally

but idk about that

[tepid coral]

Absolutely useless

[simple garden]

There’s only one main character.

[wet temple]

True

"primary" might be a better word

[tepid coral]

It's more of an ensemble

[simple garden]

I suppose primary archetype is perfect description

[wet temple]

THY END IS NOW!
PREPARE THYSELF!
CRRRRUUUSH!!
DIIIEEEEEEEEE

WEAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKK 👿

[rancid spoke]

I think implying any single detail from an Alberto Mielgo short "doesn't tie in much" is a mistake.

[simple garden]

Absolutely.

[tepid coral]

His interpretation doesn't tie in

[rancid spoke]

There is intent and purpose on every single detail that man puts into anything.
I think saying Void "doesn't care" is a very flat way of looking at the character. The cinematic implies a lot about Void.

[simple garden]

When he sees Glitch listen to the song, he 100% cares

[rancid spoke]

He has a somber expression when first listening to the audio chip. I don't think a person that "doesn't care" would do that.
He also hesitates shooting at Glitch when she starts humming the melody. There's depth there, even if it's not immediately apparent

[tepid coral]

But not what @simple garden Claims. Void is shown to care about experiences, the moment not the past. He cares about the song he finds because he "likes" it. He hesitates when shooting glitch because he empathize with th3 same experience. But he doesn't care about the dead colonists or his own past

[rancid spoke]

You don't think he cares about the music because there's a part of his consciousness that is recalling to the past?

It's probably not a coincidence that he found the audio chip in what is assumed to be the wreckage of the vehicle that the nuCaloric people were driving at the beginning. To a degree, he cares about where this music is coming from.

[simple garden]

Look at him skipping through the sand like a child first

He’s literally happy to be alive.

[tepid coral]

If there is it'll be a plot point later. But that isn't apparent in this short. Especially when he's shown to scoff at the photo he's given. Also, Void openly does not care about the colonists. He's not gentle with the wreck of their car and is grubbyhanded in how he loots.

[simple garden]

‘I can’t see it because I fear depth so depth doesn’t exist’

[rancid spoke]

You assume he scoffs because he doesn't care. I assume he scoffs because he doesn't remember. Or perhaps because he thinks UESC is trying to convince him of something that isn't true.

[turbid nebula]

The scoff seemed more like "well I'll be" to me.

[tepid coral]

Blackbird asks him "Do you ever wonder what happened to all these people?"
Void answers "No".

[simple garden]

It’s called repression because he obviously cares.

Study psychology before acting like an authority of the matter

[tepid coral]

Probably, but it maps on to what was previously shown in the last few minutes.

[rancid spoke]

He may not directly care about what happened to the colonists.
He may also care about what happened specifically to the people that originally had the audio chip.

Both can be true.

[tepid coral]

Except he doesn't linger on them. He lingers on the music. He never talks or thinks about the people he got it from. Because that experience is what matters. How the music makes him feel at that moment.

[simple garden]

It was their 100th outing.

[tepid coral]

What does that have to do with anything?

[rancid spoke]

How do you know he doesn't linger on them? How do you know he doesn't think about the people he got it from?

[simple garden]

Ever been hit in the same spot 100 times? It becomes NUMB

[tepid coral]

How do you know he does?

[tepid coral]

Ohhhh so he's numb to the death of the colonists? I thought you said he cared secretly

[simple garden]

JFC this kid is dense lol

[tepid coral]

No you just changed your mind, it's fine

[rancid spoke]

I don't. I'm making an educated guess. I don't think any person would have the same expression he did when putting in the chip if there wasn't a care in the world about where that audio chip came from.

[tepid coral]

Except you can see his expression change when he hears the music, not when he plugs it in. Before that it's just scrap and salvage to him

[simple garden]

No shit. How do you know a micro chip is a song before you press play.

[rancid spoke]

Is it not possible that the music leads him to think about the past?

[simple garden]

Especially when it suppressed the driving voice inside

[rancid spoke]

There's a lot of background noise just before he plugs it in. All that background noise is completely gone when he plugs it in. I don't think that's just because he's "enjoying the moment".

[tepid coral]

Is it not possible that it makes him think of thr yummy hot cheeseburger that's waiting for him starside? Like of were just speculationing our conclusions from no basis then....

[tepid coral]

The voices vary, which one?

[rancid spoke]

I think it's a natural connection to make that he thinks about the past (not necessarily his past, just the past) when he plugs it in. It's a human reaction.

Besides, like I said. His expression is very somber.

[simple garden]

Which is far different than true melancholy or rage.

[tepid coral]

The past character in the short is clearly glitch, not void. The entire intro is about her past, not his. And she's very naturally taken aback when the photo is said to be her. Like it's not what she can recall.

[rancid spoke]

"clearly" according to who

[simple garden]

There’s no getting through - I’m out for a bit! Lol

[tepid coral]

The short, obviously. You're going to turn around and spend all this time focusing on voids beautiful face and not the actual structure of the short?

[rancid spoke]

I think you and I have very different interpretations of the short in that case.

[tepid coral]

That's fine 🦐

[simple garden]

You’ve literally been arguing based on disagreement towards interpretation lol ‘that’s fine’ 🤦‍♂️

[tepid coral]

So? I made my argument. Agree to disagree.

[rancid spoke]

I think a good pointer as to why I think Void is thinking about the past, is that Blackbird immediately asks after pluggin in the audio chip, "You ever wonder what happened to these people?"

Like it was a visceral reaction to listening to the music

[simple garden]

Try being more diplomatic when stating points next time 😊❤️‍🔥

https://youtube.com/shorts/Q1S39jXb_5U?si=2azQtabrv5WRQKqS

[gentle kite]

Is the UESC a government or is it a corporation? Because completion of one of the Primary contracts for Traxus states you lower UESC stock by 0.005% (which is funny and loaded with implications). But as far as I know, governments don’t have stocks.

[tepid coral]

Quit being weird. You've been nothing but corrosive this entire chain. Honestly, Kry is the only person that seemingly even knows what's happened here

[rancid spoke]

Both

[tepid coral]

That's weird

[rancid spoke]

Not really. It's a pretty established concept in cyberpunk-esque literature that corporations turn into governments, and vice versa

[simple garden]

Yikes lmao you need help.

Funny that I’ve just been listening to Kry.exe argue my points against you and you in a way just forfeited so thanks

[snow wind]

You need to take your meds

[simple garden]

LMAO KK CRACK HEAD

[snow wind]

Man, homeboy stats unhinged 24, 7

[gentle kite]

I can understand the idea that corporations eventually become governments in dystopian settings. I just want to know the in universe pipeline for government to corporation.

Like, how does the United Nations become privatized? I guess Bungie may end up leaving that in the air, since I imagine that’s lore from before the Marathon even launched.

[tepid coral]

What point were you making again? You didn't make a claim

[snow wind]

They might. We don't know

[turbid nebula]

It's not...?

[snow wind]

Yeah, you got the img link?