play w/e you want
#9.2 Feedback and Discussion
gusty thunder
Thank you.
gusty thunder
❤️
mellow urchin
What are we calling the next raid btw
potent pawn
sofo?
mellow urchin
Awful
potent pawn
sofa?
pure shoal
sepulch
potent pawn
seppo!
gusty thunder
Ulch?
mellow urchin
Sofo would technically be correct, but it sounds like a hipster part of manhattan
gusty thunder
First Juan?
nova nexus
bad people do that
potent pawn
yeah but sepulcher is harder to type out
lost mulch
I just call it the new raid
lost mulch
When 10.0 comes out, it's the old raid
mellow urchin
The raid?
potent pawn
yeah
like sanctum
is the grey raid
because the entire fucking place bar painsmith is gray
lost mulch
Yea seems like alot of gold
mellow urchin
Goldish
potent pawn
gold raid it is then
mellow urchin
The water in the raid might not be as special
potent pawn
nah its water like youve never seen before
robust lotus
water with hexagons
mellow urchin
Kinda hilarious to me that they had so many things to sell the new patch on and 10% of that went to the water
robust lotus
and spheres!!!!!!!!!!
lost mulch
So we have gold ball, gold rolex, gold walker, lithium battery, golden child gone bad, what else
robust lotus
(but floating)
lost mulch
That's rolex
lost mulch
So you just call anduin fight human
robust lotus
wagwan andy
lost mulch
I like human better
lost mulch
I've honestly forgot the other fights
mellow urchin
Ball, worm, sausage, denny gang, pirate dude, spider, human
Battery
Naming is actually so hard
robust lotus
community project to rename all bosses to their true names
lost mulch
Denny gang is the first four or whatever?
mellow urchin
Oh right i have to uphold the law now, hrm this is sub channel guys, ok? Not wow gen
lost mulch
Oh sorry I'll stop forgot where I was
lost mulch
Yea I like sub in 9.2
mellow urchin
Bit rng but overall nice, ppl will like. Topic resumed
lost mulch
I can't wait to play kyrian with weapon master and akaari
mellow urchin
Its honestly fine
lost mulch
Yea I know, it will be annoying at times but only a minor thing.
idle bloom
Guys do we bs in dance at 9.2? These pv stacks goin crazy
Feels like kyrian sub becomes complicated
cerulean prairie
Am I tripping or is there nothing about BS in dance in the pins
left storm
haha dude I was curious too I didnt see anything either.
I didnt want to say anything and get roasted though
hushed comet
Things have been a little hectic with many changes over the past couple weeks
The conditions for stab in dance are also quite strict
winged fiber
oh i guess it's not there
coulda sworn it was
you backstab in dance as long as there's like
more than 3 seconds in dance shadowblades is up and you have 5+ stacks
it's pretty stupid
for around a .5-7% gain
idle bloom
Seems like pv stacks > ss only out of shadowblades
winged fiber
you don't backstab in dance if shadowblades is not up
hushed comet
thought it was at least 3 sec on dance
like 3 or less
idk
also had a shadow blades buff up-time constraint
winged fiber
it's more than 3
hushed comet
so like
winged fiber
seconds on dance
hushed comet
it's kinda pointless
cerulean prairie
Things have been a little hectic with many changes over the past couple weeks
Yeah lots of changes, glad there's people who know wtf they're doing and are willing to share though haha
idle bloom
So last dance global > juiced bs
winged fiber
no
hushed comet
Yeah lots of changes, glad there's people who know wtf they're doing and are wil...
indeed 
winged fiber
you DO NOT backstab with 3 or less seconds left of dance
the rule is if there's more than 3 seconds left of dance, you have shadowblades up, and 5+ stacks of pv you can backstab in dance
hushed comet
So last dance global > juiced bs
sort of
winged fiber
....
hushed comet
3 dance globals > stab
hushed comet
bro stop telling people wrong shit
ummm who
read smart guy
also said there's a time constraint left on your blades iirc
idle bloom
the rule is if there's more than 3 seconds left of dance, you have shadowblades...
Ok sounds cool ty
cerulean prairie
the rule is if there's more than 3 seconds left of dance, you have shadowblades...
But why?
hushed comet
it's better to use your pv stacks if >3 seconds left because you will have a bit of time to build up more
and juiced stabs can do more than your strikes
cerulean prairie
I see
winged fiber
i have a feeling this rule is just going to lead to a dps loss for people
winged fiber
who do it incorrectly
hushed comet
having multiple constraints
to hit an ability during dance that we weren't hitting there before
it's over-convoluted
idle bloom
I really enjoy this gameplay but at first look it seems a bit complicated
winged fiber
we'll probably have a weakaura for it eventually
hushed comet
i can understand doing it if you just got juiced procs from the tier set
but imagine if you're in front of the boss
and not behind it
wasted
crude fractal
what is pv i keep hearing on this channel?
hushed comet
perforated veins
winged fiber
it's definitely worth it
hushed comet
conduit
winged fiber
you just have to do it right
winged fiber
but it's also cringe as fuck to backstab in dance regardless of anything
so i won't knock anyone who choses to just ignore that logic
idle bloom
Imagine if it's boss fight with 2 adds and u 4p set goes ham on procs and u have pv cap every 2nd global
winged fiber
it can have an impact during funnel yea
hushed comet
just better make sure your behind that boss
winged fiber
with 4 pc proccing ss on all ads
crude fractal
So i went through the pins and for 9.2, is obediance+akari still the go to?
hushed comet
no
RC+akaari
for ST
obedience+akaari will likely be good on any funnel heavy fight
obedience+finality for m+
crude fractal
obedience+akaari will likely be good on any funnel heavy fight
Yeah i was talking about from an M+ perspective actually
hushed comet
finality then
crude fractal
I'm bad with kyrian so will stay venthyr actually
hushed comet
kyrian imo is easier for raid
crude fractal
finality then
Even in keys, sub's role is to funnel prio damage, so shouldn't akari be better?
idle bloom
can go kyrian for m+ also at some scenarios like theatre of pain
hushed comet
also just kinda plays into everything we have going in 9.2
hushed comet
can go kyrian for m+ also at some scenarios like theatre of pain
or just play outlaw/sin in that dungeon
crude fractal
kyrian imo is easier for raid
idk i keep missing the animacharged CP because of auto-attacks
hushed comet
because 🤮 lmao
hushed comet
idk i keep missing the animacharged CP because of auto-attacks
you need a shadow tech swing timer
hushed comet
Even in keys, sub's role is to funnel prio damage, so shouldn't akari be better?
nop
finality buffs evis damage
could honestly be run on funnel heavy raid fight but i doubt we see anything THAT funnel heavy
winged fiber
not really a purpose to run akaaris in keys
it has very little value outside of st
and finality has value in aoe, funnel, and st
wind furnace
Having one of the top fights benefitting from funnel should be enough
idle bloom
ppl will run sum tyranic high keys with kyrian akaari too. but only for a couple of dungeons
winged fiber
no
winged fiber
you'd run finality even on tyran
and you wouldn't play kyrian in keys
venth is straight up better
idle bloom
ToP is just perfect for akaari imo
wind furnace
akaaris is just bis ye
hushed comet
Finality is too close in st to bother ever running akaari in keys
hushed comet
Yeah
wind furnace
but thats by design tbh, and i think it makes sense to a degree
winged fiber
yea
i'd prefer if it was stronger in st honestly
feel like it's still a bit overnerfed from the beta scare
hushed comet
Honestly kinda sucks but like
Skill ceiling is going to rise a bit right, but the rng variance is so freaking high
winged fiber
it's worse st than finality
hushed comet
That it almost won’t matter
winged fiber
That it almost won’t matter
it def won't
wind furnace
what is worse st than finality?
winged fiber
after 10+ weeks of farm the top parses are going to be who highrolled 2/4 pc procs
winged fiber
what is worse st than finality?
akaaris
with no external influences from tier set
like if it was just base sub + legendary
hushed comet
I don’t think so
wind furnace
no?
hushed comet
Akaari has always been ~1% ahead in ST
winged fiber
wasn't finality better in nathria
wind furnace
how do you come to that conclusion
winged fiber
or am i misremembering
hushed comet
Never was
winged fiber
yea i'm talking about in a vacuum
wind furnace
yes
wind furnace
9.0 had finality/akaari close
winged fiber
akaaris working with pv is a 9.2 change right?
winged fiber
yea so that buffs it too
wind furnace
they did
winged fiber
before all that it was like ~50 dps margin
wind furnace
its also mentioned as notable changes in #subtlety
akaaris was not bis in 9.1
simplay because covenant specific options are better
and they stay like this on 2/4 covenants
hushed comet
All I remember is it always being ~1% ahead of finality in pure st
But yeah idek how it compared to obedience or RC 
hushed comet
Prob not well
@wind furnace someone was asking about stab in dance as they couldn’t find it in the pins
wind furnace
oh
hushed comet
I didn’t know if it was in anything yet or not, just letting you know
winged fiber
it's not updated in faqs
faqs has the live logic
but iuno if fuu's updated faqs for 9.2 yet
wind furnace
added a gameplay section to #subtlety pin
will update faq today/tomorrow. still need to do some simulations
left bramble
had a thought regarding the PV. Perhaps this is the wrong place but maybe there's someone interested...
I have a PV weakaura that glows when 5+stacks of PV is generated. However is there a possibility to add some condition for it to glow only when there's the 3 seconds left on dance and when blades is active. Would be helpful in the beginning of the new gameplay style I guess
winged fiber
there is a way yes
wind furnace
there is, you can do that with conditions
but you don't rly need this weakaura right now
left bramble
i just dont have the xp/time etc to learn creating the wa.s im agraid
nah but it would be cool to have prepared
wind furnace
unless you plan to... well play night fae or necrolord
left bramble
hell no
wind furnace
so you have 5 weeks before such a weakaura matters
left bramble
sure but thought id just check
im just a boomer and ive noticed on the ptr I fking tunnel/focus massively on the kyrian minigame with the 2 & 4p bonuses. I just thought the new PV thing in addition would be cool to have simplifed a bit 🙂
wind furnace
ye it seems possibly helpful
left bramble
I mean its just one of the many things to have to think less about. just send the stab when glowing and not overcapping cps. Usually I dont like addons "playing the game for me" but man its too much rng/procc based upcoming for me atleast
wind furnace
i totally agree
everything that does reduce thinking is valuable
a lot of ppl forget about that
left bramble
while on the subject.. might also have a condition for it not to glow on 5/6 CP? To avoid overcapping from WM? or the overcap that might come from a PV BS WM-proc when you are at 5CPs doesn't matter too much?
wind furnace
Wm does not proc pv
wind furnace
people overthink it
left bramble
yup I feel myself doing it tbh
tight sapphire
shadowdust opener is dead?
wind furnace
i haven't tested it but 2 people did report it not working anymore
wind furnace
push did test it and say you lose the cdr if you switch away from it
i haven't tested it yet, so i just go from what others did atm
upbeat coyote
Are there any pins where to wear legendarys 9.2?
wind furnace
there are in #subtlety but its a difficult decision on what slot you want to use
because you might want to:
#1 consider to not tier slots
#2 might want to only craft unity once
#3 might want to consider other specs
upbeat coyote
ty
wind furnace
if you want to have 1 unity and only play sub
akaari neck, finality back, unity hands
covert flame
i obviously misunderstood that unity thing.. Isn't it only usable for waist slot ?
coarse quiver
push did test it and say you lose the cdr if you switch away from it
you're totally right, thank you. you still get snd and benefit from DS/Subt talents so i think its still worth
icy dawn
You cant upgrade the belt, but you Can Upgrade unity If crafted on any slot Correct?
spiral glade
from what I know you first get a "Unity" belt at 265 ilvl and cant upgrade it, later on you get the actual memory of Unity and are able to use it as like any other legendary
eg craft it in its different slots / different ilvls etc
vagrant glade
how does the legendary system work next tier, we get unity ( this activates current covenenat legendary right?) and then we can equip spec specific legendary also?
spiral glade
Iirc you get the ability to equip unity + regular lego at the end of the new storyline? Until then it just counts as a regular lego afaik
vagrant glade
im just crafting all the lego combinations I require and was going to recraft Obedience that is currently in my helm
but if i get that in my Unity, ill not bother recrafting it
spiral glade
Unity is always the cov lego and switches as you switch covs afaik
delicate osprey
yes obedience in helmet will not work next tier
only unity makes it able to double equip
well you can kinda stay with it until you get belt but afterwards you will have to craft aakari/finality
clear zephyr
Lords of dread anyone done any big math on DPS during increased area of effect damage taken
It’s 100% increased area of effect damage taken
tepid prawn
What do you mean?
If it's a 100% damage increase, you just double your dps.
There's nothing crazy there. If you want to pad/juice it up, you'd try to save up cds for it without risking losing casts.
wind furnace
you're totally right, thank you. you still get snd and benefit from DS/Subt tale...
you can play deathly for that benefits and you don't need a 15 sec pull timer, so not worth it
potent pawn
shadowdust is only fixed on ptr right?
wind furnace
yes
potent pawn
sweet. one more week to degen
clear zephyr
If it's a 100% damage increase, you just double your dps.
It says area of effect damage in dungeon journal not damage taken
this is what i mean
clear zephyr
potent pawn
shuriken storm as generator?
clear zephyr
its for both bosses
clear zephyr
They needed to give elemental shaman a role in the raid i guess
livid ferry
haha
warm olive
Lol
lament ore
wonder if this works the same way as stuff like the squad leader in SoA, who reduces AoE damage taken
but it doesn't apply to certain stuff, like Chain Lightning
cause it's not really AoE, but multi target
like MM's trick shots
so it'd only work on "pure" AoE spells
clear zephyr
20 seconds is a long burst window also
feral schooner
shadowdust is only fixed on ptr right?
How?
wind furnace
So 1 day and its gone
warm olive
push did test it and say you lose the cdr if you switch away from it
@feral schooner
feral schooner
<@!312625131686068234>
Ty
mellow urchin
The way they fixed it was just adding 20 seconds onto your cds when swapping out shadowdust
So it has some wonky interactions
Like if you swap off shadowdust and you just used symbols without using vanish, the symbols cd goes up to 49 seconds instead of 29
lament ore
pulsar axle
Hi, got an interesting question, is it worth stopping attack for charged cp evis?
lament ore
wdym
pulsar axle
shadow strike and stop attack and evis for charged cp
pulsar axle
considering shadow tech getting cp
lament ore
no
don't play around charged CPs that much during dance
there's no way you'd ever wanna bother setting up stop attack stuff
outside of dance you can game sht procs as long you don't overcap energy
pulsar axle
ok, i take that short answer, but could there be any detailed explanation?
pulsar axle
thx
forest hamlet
If the set bonus procs pv stacks, do we backstab in aoe? When is the cut off to stop backstabbing?
hushed comet
You can backstab your prio target
wind furnace
If the set bonus procs pv stacks, do we backstab in aoe? When is the cut off to ...
4-5 targets (3 during dance)
unless like notricks mentioned prio
forest hamlet
So at 3 during dance I still backstab or just up to 2? Do we Shadowstrike up to 3 targets now? I believe we did shuriken storm at 3+ (during dance) pre set bonus, but with 2 piece it might be worth to shadowstrike even at higher counts? Idk
wind furnace
you would still use backstab on 3, stop on 4
tardy echo
Sorry for importunment, do we have some information or where i can found them (if a doc or a link exist?), for the legendarie setup that we gonna have ? Do we have to swap the cloak, do we have to setup something particular, do we have strong change ?
wind furnace
pins in #subtlety
also you can type !fuu to get a link to my spreadsheet, it has a lot of information already
mellow urchin
also you can type !fuu to get a link to my spreadsheet, it has a lot of informat...
bit of an oopsie on the naming on these sims
its skolex/lihuvim mythic
wind furnace
i fixed it already and changed link
^^
but ye
trying to find a format thats easy to grasp
also one thing that we didn't discuss for sylvanas dagger
if e.g. a 50% sim is marginal ahead, it still does not mean its better to switch before 25%
because 50% will have 25% value included
mellow urchin
yea well
i think the whole switching part is kinda whatever for most ppl
not sure if i'm going to bother swapping weapons around for 50 dps or whatever it is
wind furnace
yes but the entire fight is execute
mellow urchin
i know
do you just divide it by 4
or how do you do it
if you wanna know the total dps
wind furnace
its .3% or so yes
mellow urchin
alright
i mean its an option on very execute heavy bosses
where last phase is really hard
wind furnace
it is a small gain
nova nexus
finally ready for 9.2 sub thanks to the red rogue
nova nexus
yup
nova nexus
how else are you going to shout “For the Horde!” 
without the tabard.
nocturne marten
Ahahahahaha
astral dragon
finally ready for 9.2 sub thanks to the red rogue
nova nexus
<:dead:932888396316155934>
the quality content we deserve.
raw aspen
Hey do we have some tier set sims already ?
nova nexus
have you checked the pins in the channel?
wind furnace
nova nexus
#fuusheet is alive?
wind furnace
check it out
got a lot new exciting stuff
(also it was always alive, i updated it every patch cycle since beta)
just did re-work it, and sucessively add things i assume are helpful/relevant
i do go for a little more supple approach now, as some of our regulars did complain
about information density on my old spreadsheet.
Also will add more notes to it
nova nexus
i will tonight when I get home.
fair vortex
!fuu
wind furnace
bot commands do not work in threads sadly
acoustic cobalt
in 9.2 theres an npc to switch covs right (i know theres the table to change conduits/soulbinds)
in the new zone
livid ferry
you jsut take portel to oribus and portel back
coarse quiver
you can play deathly for that benefits and you don't need a 15 sec pull timer, s...
you dont think DS and Subt fueling first dance is worth anymore?
elfin cedar
kyrian mikanikos is still simming the top single tar covenant combination as per the pins, correct?
coarse quiver
correct
gusty thunder
kyrian mikanikos is still simming the top single tar covenant combination as per...
That's correct, I guess we'll all be Kyrian next tuesday and Venthyr for M+
nova nexus
there’s not a lot of ST boss stuff from what I’ve seen. door looks very useful on xymox
gusty thunder
That's awesome news, I haven't got much time to take a look at the fights.
nova nexus
ready check pull has 2 minute previews on youtube for each of the 8 bosses that were on the ptr
winged fiber
there’s not a lot of ST boss stuff from what I’ve seen. door looks very useful o...
there's two
and yea quite a few bosses door is busted on
you can make a case for kyrian on a couple of the non pure st bosses but most of those bosses door is busted for so it's like
hard reef
hey guys, wanted to clarify one of the things i read in the rogue guides
gusty thunder
ready check pull has 2 minute previews on youtube for each of the 8 bosses that ...
Saw that, thank you.
hard reef
it says "Kyrian also changes how you use Backstab, and this is quite an unwanted consequence of making Perforated Veins work with Akaari, Weaponmaster, and the 4-set Shadowstrikes. You will gain more Perforated procs in 9.2, and you will reach the stack cap (6) mid Dance. "
why is this Kyrian specific? is it because of how echoing reprimand/resounding clarity works which results in more shadowstrikes and hence more PV stacks compared to Venthyr?
mellow urchin
It's not kyrian specific, but its mostly a gain for kyrian
You'd do it as venthyr too (just to be clear)
hard reef
Ah i see, yeah just wanted to clarify whether the same should be done for venthyr too
Thank you!
robust lotus
does this mean that if I get a higher ilvl piece from final 3 and turn it into tier
it's higher ilvl tier
pulsar axle
gloves
sleek mortar
Socket+terts....
robust lotus
The item level of the thing you put into the catalyst
so basically gloves for rogues, for example
Since they are the only higher ilvl item that drop from final 3 that are tier piece
sinful nimbus
Soo unity not on gloves is wat you are sayin?
pale jetty
Unity was never on gloves
It's on boots
Akaari is going on gloves
well, at least if you plan on minmaxing for both raid and m+
otherwise i guess you could go unity gloves with akaari neck and finality back
wind furnace
you dont think DS and Subt fueling first dance is worth anymore?
deathly is a marginal gain but starting with snd is a big qol change, so i don't see why you would not want to do it
wind furnace
Unity was never on gloves
you sure about that?
wind furnace
yes
steel meadow
looking sus
wouldnt melandrus ring instead of bloodoath signet be better in this case
wind furnace
The profiles should be with close to best item in every slot
but possible that there is .1% on some items that are within low margins due to target error
vagrant glade
So would akaaris go on gloves once the other 4 pieces of the set are obtained?
wind furnace
from my spreadsheet:
vagrant glade
Keep that slot free to make 4 set asap and if/once slot is free pop akaaris into it
Fuu is that in pins?
wind furnace
it is linked in the 9.2 pin in #subtlety or you can just type !fuu (bot commands only work outside of threads)
vagrant glade
thank you.
pale jetty
you sure about that?
i added more after, but for ST isnt it worth more to have akaari hands and unity boots
pale jetty
ye mbb
pulsar axle
!fuu
wind furnace
and this includes target error
!fuu only works in #subtlety (well in any channel, but not threads)
wind furnace
ye mbb
its not your bad, its very hard to say what the absolute best is
this is why i made the above table, all slots are within low % error, often within margins of error
hands/boots just seemed consistent #1 hence i used it for the profiles
sleek mortar
i just saw the .!fuu sheet, dude you own
i admire your dedication to this, thanks man
wind furnace
thanks, took me a while to sim everything. I can add things if something is missing
potent pawn
can you add a picture of a duck?
wind furnace
like this?
potent pawn
yes please
inner sapphire
😆
shut valve
like this?
So deathly is worth for kyrian again?
wind furnace
seems so yes
gray linden
How come ? :0
wind furnace
it was always around +-0
and it can swing with higher gear or other system impact, i just re-evaluated with mythic gear
gray linden
And invigorating shadow dust? 🙂
plucky storm
And invigorating shadow dust? 🙂
Doesn’t work
shut valve
Dead
Was fun while it lasted
At least i won't be spending more gold on tomes for every pull 🥲
gray linden
Ohh damn 😫
But deathly is just for the pre snd then? Cus the dmg increase wears off on pull right? :S
glass remnant
@young lily
charred harness
Well I only got one mythic sylvanas dagger. Kinda shitty how it just lives in my off hand till next expansion
wind furnace
gz
glass remnant
Gz
left bramble
Well I only got one mythic sylvanas dagger. Kinda shitty how it just lives in my...
be happy you got it
nova nexus
be happy you got it
people are never happy here. 
mellow urchin
@wind furnace I really like the new type style for the sim document
nova nexus
I’d rather it got nerfed tbh
you’d rather have even less at the start of a tier than what’s already being cut away? odd take
nova nexus
hot take, if you want the dagger nerfed and you have the dagger… just don’t equip it and you can live in your fantasy RP world of having to upgrade all of your gear at the start of a new tier.
personally, in the reality we live in, I’d love to know I have one of the hardest slots to acquire an item for (dagger) all set for the entire tier.
terse saffron
And I will cry myself to sleep tomorrow when vault yet again will disappoint me with no EoN 😢
delicate osprey
i have screenshot saved for the good times about that
forgetting to loot vault and then getting 2 in a row
charred harness
you’d rather have even less at the start of a tier than what’s already being cut...
I’m not a huge fan of using items from the previous tier. I dont think that’s a too odd of take as you put it. If you didn’t have it you need to farm the previous raid when no1 wants to do it?
Sounds fun right?
Appreciate the catty comments tho
hushed comet
hot take, if you want the dagger nerfed and you have the dagger… just don’t equi...
I love this
hushed comet
I’m not a huge fan of using items from the previous tier. I dont think that’s a...
No one needs to farm it though. Any player can still be perfectly viable without it, barring maybe top 100 minmaxers
delicate osprey
showgunn have you played the last 15 years of this game it always happened in all expansions
although i think rewarding players for playing the game is fine in my book
hushed comet
I personally love that we get to keep some form of power from Sanctum since we’re losing such a steep power such as dom shards
Even if I didn’t have daggers it’s just kinda gg go next
delicate osprey
yea we lose almost 2k dps with no shards
- a lot of surv people understimate the impact of frost or blood had on the surv in the raid in general
charred harness
Am I not allowed to say I don’t like it? Lol Jesus Christ
nova nexus
if you don’t like it get rid of it. my guess is you won’t.
cause your dps is more important to you than your replace everything fantasy world
warm olive
Give them a break lol
nova nexus
fuck that. the nerf the dagger shit is beyond repetitive regurgitation. FIX all dagger acquisition as a whole, then talk about nerfing shit.
hushed comet
fuck that. the nerf the dagger shit is beyond repetitive regurgitation. FIX all ...
We get 3 in the new raid 
I hope that helps fix the issue a little
mellow urchin
for what its worth, using 278 dagger in MH is a slight dps gain above 259 sylv dagger AND it reduces the rng by quite a bit
so if you're not an rng fan, playing 278 MH is a good choice
- i think venthyr gets even less value from daggers and most sims we have seen with the daggers are Kyrian based
nova nexus
We get 3 in the new raid <:feelsloveman:587982296519278593> I hope that helps fi...
it won’t, especially with 2 tier bosses.
of anyone calling for nerfs or being salty af it should be me waiting nearly 7 months to get any version of the dagge to drop.
blizzard isn’t going to magically shift dps from a dagger nerf back into the spec.
if all of the sudden were into 2L territory and there is still a noticeable difference between the haves and have nots in real world gameplay to the point it’s deserving of a nerf, then look at them.
thinking rogue is top tier right now where it needs any aspect of it nerfed
clear zephyr
is me on my last 9.1 vault
wind furnace
next weeks vault is technically a 9.1 vault too
mellow urchin
could you include 278 in these sims, would be nice. People wont have 285 for months (or ever)
wind furnace
wdym
quasi socket
dagger comparions vs sylv at 278 ilvl
mellow urchin
ye i kinda wanna see how venthyr with daggers stacks up
since i have a feeling many fights will be venthyr favoured
wind furnace
i need to re-run some sims for the spreadsheet to account for tier upgrades given hands can be on higher itemlevel
but lets do this first
quasi socket
I hope there are more kyrian fights than venthyr fights, I don't really like flag on sub
wind furnace
Sylvanas mythic vs. 278, venthyr:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s5jivNmxDK5tfEvq6tDa2y/simc
mellow urchin
that doesnt look right
mellow urchin
It looks like too much of a dps loss 
wind furnace
kyrian gets a lot more from the daggers
mellow urchin
yea i know
wind furnace
it might be slightly worse because i just downscaled the dagger to 278 and did not use the 278 dagger
mellow urchin
this is the older venthyr sim you did with 285 dagger
quasi socket
kyrian was simming 13335 with 2x sylv and 13516 with sylv OH + 285 MH
how is it the same now yah
quasi socket
mellow urchin
wth
quasi socket
what's changed
mellow urchin
would tier stats matter that much
wind furnace
haste is not great, so possible
mellow urchin
and why is it only dagger that gains dmg and not the regular daggers
like its only the double sylvanas that gained 700 dps
not the other profiles
wind furnace
i did just copy/paste the profile and re-run
but it might be better to just re-run the entire sim with real 278 daggers
mellow urchin
like these are both venthyr ye, with seemingly the same gear
the only difference might be the tier set giving better stats?
mellow urchin
is "Venthyr" just 2x sylvanas then?
quasi socket
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iq3TPJ4CUseQb7ihyWgUuw>
what changes that now kyrian loses 1k dps?
wind furnace
i have no idea
quasi socket
mellow urchin
venthyr also lost a bunch of dps
quasi socket
up top is the other sim you ran; below are the first comparison between daggers
mellow urchin
so its a realistic scenario pog
wind furnace
yes
quasi socket
small diff 
wind furnace
i mean venthyr is a lot better with more targets
quasi socket
all info we have on last 3 are dungeon journal stuff yea?
clear zephyr
Ya
wind furnace
it sims fairly close
mellow urchin
first boss is definitely venthyr if you care about optimizing even the first boss. Skolex is kyrian, the sausage is prob kyrian, the add spawning is nice ER cdr and doesnt do much for "funnel" but door of shadows might be nice for rings i guess. Lihuvim and Xymox = venthyr. Halondrus prob kyrian unless door is good for the running phase/getting out of melee with motes. Anduin venthyr
what a mess of a text, but that seems about 50/50
limpid lance
quasi socket
do you feel like door is "necessary" on sub given that you have 2 step charges?
lusty dust
Kyrian is the new meta?
quasi socket
I can see a use for it on sin but not on sub honestly
mellow urchin
Skolex, Halondrus, potentially sausage = kyrian
Ball, battery, manbaby, robot pirate, 4 pantheon = venthyr
did i miss a boss
wind furnace
raid has 11 bosses
mellow urchin
well the last 3 are a mystery
wind furnace
true
clear zephyr
Xymox?
mellow urchin
robot pirate
clear zephyr
Oh ya makes sense
clear zephyr
Pantheon
nova nexus
just wait until door dash > ER and minimal dps gains. maybe still a meme but who knows.
mellow urchin
RIGHT
Skolex, Halondrus, potentially sausage = kyrian
Ball, battery, manbaby, robot pirate, 4 pantheon = venthyr
just an off-the-cuffs guesstimate
i think all of those with venthyr has potential for funnel
clear zephyr
For shits n grins I’m going to go kyrian for lords of dread and jailer venthyr for rygelon
lusty dust
M+ kyrian or venthyr?
mellow urchin
jailer is prob like sylvanas, a little bit of everything
mellow urchin
M+ kyrian or venthyr?
venthyr
its also possible that kyrian is superior on some of these fights because of timings
never forget that 1 min timings isnt always gonna work
if battery man has scuffed cd on his recharge and you wont have flag for the big boys, then it might be better to be kyrian, despite the absolutely awful distance you have to run
nova nexus
never forget that 1 min timings isnt always gonna work
gonna make the faeass cry
mellow urchin
the fae-ass
very hot
i think the biggest potential for crying assa rogues is downtime
not being able to spend energy in some ways
but i guess thats kinda rare
quasi socket
not being able to spend energy in some ways
can always fok to dump energy if needed
mellow urchin
or doing a full send vendetta and then being forced off boss meaning you are wasting like 200 energy and then dots fall off while you cant hit the boss, omega yikes
nova nexus
mobility is still my worry with some of the stuff but we shall see
quasi socket
but is pantheon really a sub fight tho? that's the question
delicate osprey
rc dust outlaw with all the kicks
wind furnace
i’m waiting for outlaw secret tech to take off
to the moon i guess?
mellow urchin
but is pantheon really a sub fight tho? that's the question
also think people underestimate the power of our 4 set on 4 targets
delicate osprey
they sure do even the strikes with blades do a lot of dam
wind furnace
i can do a comparison between sin/sub/outlaw on 3 targets and funnel if you want
mellow urchin
its 4 targets
delicate osprey
and then you can rng finishers
nova nexus
🚀🌙
wind furnace
oh
delicate osprey
yea they take extra aoe dmg it seems
although we know dungeon journal can be dicey
delicate osprey
oh yea diff fight
ocean stratus
Pantheon is 2 tgt, new 2 tgt, then 4tgt with lust and everything for what, 25-30% fight duration?
mellow urchin
ye
ocean stratus
It's not like full 4tgt time
delicate osprey
yea pantheon is 2 2 4
mellow urchin
4t wont last long god willing
delicate osprey
but 4 is the most important part
mellow urchin
but the 2 phases before 4t is also introducing priority adds that are like 30 yards away from eachother, so its ST "burst" needed
delicate osprey
well we dont have problems about that thankfully
mellow urchin
i do think sub is better for the shielded adds than assa
delicate osprey
as mid level progress guild
ocean stratus
i do think sub is better for the shielded adds than assa
It is
mellow urchin
you get ur bleeds up and shiv and thats it
ocean stratus
Don't need to build the dmg
mellow urchin
maybe you can send vendetta on it, but prob massive waste
delicate osprey
yea sub and go and just dance maybe even er
mellow urchin
but 2t assa is WAAAY stronger than sub, so tahts something
ocean stratus
Doubt it will live for long enough for vendett to be worth
delicate osprey
the diff is if you can just send some people to it better
it maybe a bit diff than council where everyone needed it to die
and let warriors/enh etc just keep on boss
delicate osprey
plus dmg ye
mellow urchin
"funnel"
delicate osprey
it can get very highrolly
delicate osprey
then dagger procs kek
delicate osprey
as venth not really
shut valve
why would it be?
mellow urchin
well if you get procs during the tornado is 100% wasted
delicate osprey
i love tornado ahaha
mellow urchin
but the cps are wasted
delicate osprey
it does have less effect but MoS also loses value
shut valve
if you get 4 procs in a row, you'll be HAPPY they're wasted
delicate osprey
as more finishers=more energy
delicate osprey
ah that is because on farm i cba using books
i did play MoS on most bosses in progress
mellow urchin
the other sub in your guild has some demon log with premed and tornado on guardian mythic iirc
delicate osprey
he got prepulled
mellow urchin
oh
delicate osprey
neverlucky
delicate osprey
he was not a happy camper that pull for sure
wind furnace
valor upgrade goes up to 272 iirc?
delicate osprey
yes
mellow urchin
ye
delicate osprey
mythic ilvl is 278
wind furnace
thanks, just wanted to double check
delicate osprey
windscar trinket rising
mellow urchin
also uncapped aoe
delicate osprey
also rip sac
mellow urchin
idk sac is kind of a dogshit trinket
delicate osprey
it was funny but ye not a good way to do dmg
mellow urchin
good on st but having to swap targets is kinda sad
tight sapphire
hopefully timewalking stuff gets nerfd into ground
delicate osprey
well as push said right now for sub at least there is no big win in TW
even for assa after the trinkets get unkrangled most likely they will be better than faulty
no way jailer only gives like 100 stats
it would be so meme
delicate osprey
yea but that is after almost 2 mins of only one buff
mellow urchin
ye downside it takes 2 min to reach it
ocean minnow
generally speaking - since an average of these bosses in 9.2 are ST - I'm assuming a solid bunch of you are still keeping to Kyrian - TELL ME I'M wrong thanks 🙂
mellow urchin
yea but that is after almost 2 mins of only one buff
i think you get all buffs no?
so you get 100 of each secondary
and its permanent
delicate osprey
i actually dont know if final rune runs out
mellow urchin
final rune does
but up to the final rune
you still get all the stats
and you can choose not to press it again
delicate osprey
oh i think that may be true
mellow urchin
generally speaking - since an average of these bosses in 9.2 are ST - I'm assumi...
only 2 fights are pure ST
from the first 8
delicate osprey
yes it is a mostly 50/50 split at least in my head right now
mellow urchin
Skolex and Halondrus
delicate osprey
and we already have 15%+ base
mellow urchin
counter it
delicate osprey
from fleet footed
ocean minnow
i mean the adds within the tier seem quite auxiliary therefore from a sub rogue pov since adds are generally going to be quite fast I struggle to personally justify Flag
mellow urchin
taking 5% less healing is kinda whatever for a rogue
hushed comet
Hmm
delicate osprey
that is fine ye
if you can ramp it might be good
otherwise others are also fine
mellow urchin
i mean the adds within the tier seem quite auxiliary therefore from a sub rogue ...
well on xymox you even have funnel situations
on pantheon you have aoe which is a venthyr fight
anduin has funnel
first boss has funnel/aoe
lihuvim is kind of a mobility check
and door is > phial lmao
mellow urchin
np, things might change tho. But i have a pretty good idea for what build i'd run for which boss
ocean minnow
right on
mellow urchin
who knows, maybe night fae is useful on some fight even 👀
its pretty close to venthyr in output
has another cheat death and soulshape is quite good
quasi socket
has another cheat death and soulshape is quite good
seedpod is kinda fucky with cheat tho
quasi socket
why did they allow that? idk
mellow urchin
bad coding idk
quasi socket
mellow urchin
our cheat death is kinda wonky as it is
still does the job but its not a 100% clean ability
delicate osprey
yes it procs the failsafe first and the dr a bit after
so repeat attacks/dots can still kill you
and tbh anduin and others could be nf fights but it will be kinda hard to justify going out of venth for those
nova nexus
can proc both
just run soothing
delicate osprey
yea floor POV
nova nexus
haha
mellow urchin
and tbh anduin and others could be nf fights but it will be kinda hard to justif...
there is absolutely 0 chance that anduin is anything but a venthyr fight
sorry to break that brief moment of a bubble
hushed comet
Just don’t run cheat death if you’re running seed pod - EZ
Run elusiveness or something with it lol
mellow urchin
tbh
you could do that when pod is up
and then it goes on cd for 8
you spec into cheat death for those attempts
and then swap out again when pod is back up
clear zephyr
Most OP defensive talent in game
nova nexus
@wind furnace did you get a final simc profile submitted? only reason I ask is I got a stack list but no rogues so i’m assuming it’s slightly outdated.
nova nexus
ah ok
wind furnace
can you link the stacked list?
nova nexus
nova nexus
no sim link
warm olive
man that's a lot of blue lol
potent vault
Because I care for the feral aoe build
On a 5 min patchwork sim
So much clutter smh
nova nexus
if you can’t figure out the feral meme i can’t help
potent vault
Yes scath you’re a genius I’m dumb
wind furnace
thats rogue:
nova nexus
you literally just said aoe sim on patchwerk stack. enjoy the meme brother
nova nexus
what week is legion TW back around?
astral dragon
It’s all coming together
wind furnace
15 march or so
astral dragon
fuu do u know if sub also likes the cos auto attack ring? im not sure cause of the haste
crit + haste stat
warm olive
thats rogue:
oh god why you have to hurt me like that
wind furnace
outlaw might be a bit higher as iirc the sim misses some optimizations
warm olive
fair vortex
so iirc you had some previous simms that said faulty countermeasure (Legion TW) was bis for venth but on your spreadsheet it has shadowgrasp, is that the move now?
astral dragon
but i can if you give me a link to it
u mean wowhead or simc hehe
wind furnace
so iirc you had some previous simms that said faulty countermeasure (Legion TW) ...
yes
wind furnace
u mean wowhead or simc hehe
already found it but thanks for the effort
the reason is
i did update the spreadsheet
wind furnace
and legendary slot also chanegd
and countermeasure is now marginal behind or on par with it
fair vortex
I assume it has to do with DD scaling higher and the shadowdamage loop?
wind furnace
so guess i am happy to skip it
thick patrol
guys i think i heard in the past on this discord not to pay too much attention to infexious rogue vids
astral dragon
have all the raid trinkets been implemented properly in simc yet? fuu
thick patrol
is that right? or he knows what hes talking about?
quartz idol
wtf is enhancement variance
wind furnace
have all the raid trinkets been implemented properly in simc yet? fuu
i don't think you can call it propper before raid opens, most are implemented but i would lable it as experimental
astral dragon
alright fair enough
thick patrol
@wind furnace i read all your guides btw its just for some gameplay vids why im asking
astral dragon
we'll prob see some tuned as well
mellow urchin
is the chain functional yet
quartz idol
they have more variance than feral has damage
mellow urchin
one thing i noticed
enhancements variance is mostly positive
compare it to fury
which has barely any positive rng
warm olive
yeah it's a lot above the median
mellow urchin
can just go badly
wind furnace
is the chain functional yet
if you mean the trigger, i am not sure if there is a conditional for it
mellow urchin
i guess its hard to implement cus it requires some kind of downtime
to be realistic
but wouldnt an option be to just slam it on top of the phys dmg
nova nexus
it won’t if you can /cancleaura
mellow urchin
and fuck the downtime
warm olive
gonna pull the variance really well
wind furnace
unsure if iqd is the play on progression
nova nexus
plenty of specs use it already, just how annoying is it to you more or less.
tight sapphire
good
wind furnace
oh wait, that sims the same ring slot for both
letme re-run
well assassination might want it
mellow urchin
that seems quite good
did you try sim venthyr
i think it might be a venthyr specific thing
for sub
nova nexus
haste so good
astral dragon
well assassination might want it
yeah seems to be mostly outlaw sin ring
cause both are fine with haste
wind furnace
did you try sim venthyr
didn't but will in a sec, need to see outlaw
mossy carbon
It's also when you can get it which is nice, it will be considerably better compared to the hc rings you probably have
astral dragon
i think ill have to farm FCM trinket first then if i have time, CoS after
gonna be a rough week unless u luck out
wind furnace
ye its good for outlaw too, similar to sin
mellow urchin
do venthyr sub
i think its good
auto-attack value goes up a ton with all that haste/vers
astral dragon
yeah venthyr likes this trinket
wind furnace
will try it with all 4 covenants, but giveme a minute to setup stuff and save my profiles
mellow urchin
i have already signed up for some degen vault of the wardens spam, some mage guildies also need to spam that shit
wind furnace
with countermeasure and aa ring:
oh no ^^
now we never know if the aa ring is better on venthyr/night fae or necrolord
wind furnace
but think of the poor outlaw/assassination souls
that now know that they not only want countermeasure but also the aa ring
proper cliff
that now know that they not only want countermeasure but also the aa ring
we knew it
we've been prepping for the emotional punishment of March 15th
wind furnace
but i hope outlaw gets a bit higher with kojis optimizations that did not make it to nightly
proper cliff
we're holding daily group therapy if any of the sub boys wanna join us
wind furnace
time for local sims
wind furnace
i don't use the gui features a lot, so its not a big issue for me
nova nexus
we've been prepping for the emotional punishment of March 15th
I’ll run with you
grim rover
wind furnace
"i want to see how my sim went down to 8k dps"
wind furnace
haha, i just assumed 9.2 sim
hushed comet
we've been prepping for the emotional punishment of March 15th
I’m going to take the week off of work I guess 
nova nexus
the chad move is just craft both legos on rings and say fuck it.
hushed comet
Lmao
wind furnace
main issue for slot choice is finality tbh
sub/outlaw could both use unity on hands
assassiantion does rly like the tier hands tho
you could potentially go neck for sub/sin
hushed comet
Jailer neck though