9.2 Feedback and Discussion

[warm olive]

I was too thanks fuu :)

[clear zephyr]

Thank you ❤️

[warm olive]

i assume you meant 278

[wind furnace]

so if you want to be save

25% for sure is a gain

[warm olive]

what does this mean ?

[wind furnace]

but 1.3% gain for 25% of the fight isn't that big

[warm olive]

like what's the OH on the first one and MH in 2nd ?

285?

[wind furnace]

main hand weapon change, but i need to couble check

probably forgot to reduce itemlevel, as +-0 seems a bit low

[hushed comet]

is that simmed against a 285?

[wind furnace]

yes

[hushed comet]

assuming so

kk

koji was talking about the values last night

[wind furnace]

ah it sims fine

[hushed comet]

against 285/278. if you have a 278 on prog wep swap will be big value

yeah yeah just discussing

[wind furnace]

main hand 272 still has a mythic sylvanas offhand

[hushed comet]

didn't know eon.x2>285@50%HP

had originally thought it was 25% iirc

good to know

[wind furnace]

to make a rough estimate how much dps you gain

[nova nexus]

no 278 main hand?

or am i missing the labels

[hushed comet]

how does one edit the boss HP % on sims

[warm olive]

i was thinking 272 was a typo

[wind furnace]

0.1% from 50% -> 25% hp
~0,35% from 25% -> 0% hp
so overall roughly 0.45% dps

[wind furnace]

yes 272 main hand

means it compares to sylvanas mythic offhand

as thats with 285 in mainhand

[warm olive]

why 272... i'm confused

[hushed comet]

probably 272 is the break point

[warm olive]

aah

[hushed comet]

when new MH is better than 259 eon

[wind furnace]

item jump between difficultlies is 13

mythic = 285
heroic= 272
...

ofc there are other daggers too

[warm olive]

oh that's Sepulcher HC

[wind furnace]

yes

[hushed comet]

ohhh heroic rygelon

[warm olive]

i see

[nova nexus]

vault dagger should be simmed imo

[warm olive]

it's also any valor dagger

[hushed comet]

there's also 256 heroic and 278 mythic but not worth adding tbh

if 272 MH beats eon MH outside of executes

[warm olive]

well when you have that 272 data it's fine

yeah you can compare based on that

[hushed comet]

then it's pretty apparent that 278 is even better

or if it's "almost = to" i should say ig

[wind furnace]

better stats are only worth around .2 to .3% if there is a dagger with better stats

else its only about itemlevel

[tepid prawn]

Sub about to be super degen if you have to change daggers during combat at 50%

[wind furnace]

but mainhand weapondps do matter

[tepid prawn]

[wind furnace]

yes

25% for sure

50% seems more irrelevant

[hushed comet]

the only thing i see wrong with that is having to sharpen 3 freaking daggers constantly

[crisp lichen]

another keybind...

[nova nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/always-have-been-always-will-be-tracy-jordan-30rock-forever-and-ever-now-and-forever-gif-21884305

[wind furnace]

i probably should add a weapon swap macro to the wowhead guide

[hushed comet]

i'm going to have to make myself a WA for the boss %'s lmao

[wind furnace]

my unit fame uses % already

[nova nexus]

ima just play fury. maybe sub rework for 10.0

[hushed comet]

mine does too

[warm olive]

"SWAP WEAPONS U MORON"

[hushed comet]

this

[warm olive]

it's the kind of thing where i'm happy i don't have a second one lol

[nova nexus]

missing poisons and stones

[crisp lichen]

may god have mercy on ur wrists

[warm olive]

though i doubt i'd bother

[hushed comet]

oh fuck

[warm olive]

just pre-stone it

[hushed comet]

we're going to have to apply poisons twice

poison sticks on the dagger in your bags though doesn't it

[warm olive]

rogue casually applying poison mid fight

[nova nexus]

honestly feels like less stress than sub on the digits

[warm olive]

i think it does ? i'm not sure

[hushed comet]

ill check rq

[warm olive]

i'm not sure you need to reapply at all?

[hushed comet]

no idea

[warm olive]

never done that kind of fuckery so ...

[hushed comet]

lemme see

nope

it's just a character buff

poisons aren't applied strictly to your weapons

[warm olive]

yeah thought so

[hushed comet]

yeah i didn't know

[warm olive]

pre stone it and ur good

[hushed comet]

never had to weapon swap

yeah

i've got macros for my stones on the weapon slots

[warm olive]

ngl it's kinda cringe tho

[hushed comet]

idk if you can macro stones to a bagged item lmao

[warm olive]

lmao

just stone it once at start of raid

[hushed comet]

yeah

[warm olive]

and you'll have to do it everytime the off hand expires

[hushed comet]

ye

just depends which bosses we swap

but likely we swap for practically every boss

[warm olive]

you might as well

[hushed comet]

more damage is more damage

[lament ore]

what about swapping weapons once for every add

[warm olive]

yeah

lmao

[hushed comet]

no

we don't do that

[warm olive]

cursed timeline

[hushed comet]

the battery on holundrus is at 50%?? weapons swaps and shadowsteps to battery

[lament ore]

[warm olive]

goddamn

[hushed comet]

lmao

[mellow urchin]

good times

[hushed comet]

you won't do that i don't think

[mellow urchin]

adds skill expression

[hushed comet]

if the batteries die fast

[mellow urchin]

what batteries btw

[nova nexus]

have fun on anduin

[mellow urchin]

they were removed from the fight

[hushed comet]

WHAT

why?

[nova nexus]

lol

[mellow urchin]

the pylons

were removed

[hushed comet]

the spider boss right

[mellow urchin]

they kinda reworked the entire fight after testing

yes

[hushed comet]

who marches 10000000 yards

[mellow urchin]

yes

pylons = gone

[hushed comet]

oh damn

[astral dragon]

its quite simple, just have equipment sets then keybind, and since its on gcd during combat u just do it outside of dance while u pooling/waiting for sht

[hushed comet]

i guess i haven't seen it so idk

[mellow urchin]

its interesting, cus its basically another blind boss for the top guilds

even tho they did it

[hushed comet]

i'm not raiding at a high enough level to keep up with everything to the T

[mellow urchin]

they took the shield mechanic from pylons and put it on the motes

[hushed comet]

on the motes?

[tepid prawn]

Yeh it's simple enough, just gotta remember to press it when the boss hits 50%.

I'm already running out if binds anyways

[astral dragon]

all my sets are on numpad

[tepid prawn]

Good thing I'm an assa slavr

[clear zephyr]

EZ weak aura

[mellow urchin]

the boss spawns small orbs that goes to the boss

if they hit the boss

you wipe

pretty much

[astral dragon]

i usually only keybind 3 sets though, its enough

[buoyant gyro]

I mean as I mentioned yesterday though, there's really no reason to do this at all unless you have a higher ilevel MH because it's not even worth it to use lower ilevel weapons at all vs. doubnle Sylv. So this is actually pretty worthless for prog anyway. 😛

[astral dragon]

can just swap them depending if its raid or m+

[pale jetty]

I don't think most people will be assed to swap

[buoyant gyro]

Say like a 265 weapon is never actually worth swapping for example, you just run Sylv daggers all the time anyway

[hushed comet]

not if we're still progressing 5 months in though i think. lol

[buoyant gyro]

For Heroic weapon it's likely mega borderline but you'd have to be really on point about your swap timing and GCD/swing timer for it not to just end up being a loss

Might also reset the BLP on weapon enchant procs so you could lose some marginal benefit there if you don't swap right after a proc too

I'd have to test that more but realistically I don't really see this as overly practical

[hushed comet]

oh really

interesting

[buoyant gyro]

I assume it would totally reset the state

of the RPPM object

Current weapon enchants are 3 RPPM so it's not likely to be a major impact, but when you're talking about gains in the realm of less than a percent, it's easy to lose those

[wind furnace]

if anyone would attempt switching

[hushed comet]

so it may only be useful for 25% compared to most ilvl dags

[wind furnace]

i would suggest to do it on 25%

[hushed comet]

yeah

[astral dragon]

vs a 278 MH it was also fine on 50% tho right

[buoyant gyro]

By a really small amount

It's less than 1% at 25-50%

For 278

[astral dragon]

ok

[buoyant gyro]

Hard to quantify what the loss from RPPM resetting, swing timer reset, and GCD would be though

[wind furnace]

it in the end just boils down to not do it before 25%

[shut valve]

GCD out of CDs is 0 impact

we aren't gcd locked

RPPM resets when swapping weapons?

[warm shale]

I have a question because im confused . According to the sims are 2 259 Eon better than 285 weapons? or we just need 1 259 going in 9.2?

[mellow urchin]

you pretty much onyl need 1 for the patch istelf

but early on its very good to have 2

[warm shale]

if you have 2 259's whats the ilvl youre changing mainhand? 272 or 278?

[feral schooner]

278

Depending on stats aswell

And on fight. Long execute phases eon pulls ahead

[warm shale]

Its so sad having 15 kills on sylvanas and still not double dagger

[feral schooner]

Think of the dagger from slyvanas like getting a passive execute and losing this passive ability needs to be made up by the melee damage and other stuff

[feral schooner]

U got one?

[warm shale]

yes

[feral schooner]

And one hc in offhand I guess right?

[warm shale]

yes

[feral schooner]

Then don't worry early progression one of the first mythic bosses drops a 278 crit versa dagger

[warm shale]

Ye i hope so

or wednesday's vault

idk 😛

[feral schooner]

Yeah doesn't matter we have one so anything else is a bonus

[barren forge]

would you run PV in M+ in 9.2 as venth or stick with PE?

[winged fiber]

you run dd and stiletto with tea

pv is a single target conduit and M+ is vastly aoe so no

[blissful elk]

It's a shame that Venthyr is so low compared to kyrian 😦

[astral dragon]

in ST?

[blissful elk]

Yes just in ST

[astral dragon]

[blissful elk]

I love playing Venthyr, it's so sweet !

And many of the fights on the RPT feature the Kyrian !

@astral dragon

[astral dragon]

what do u mean feature the kyrian

favor?

[blissful elk]

Yes, it favours the kyrian quite a bit :/

[astral dragon]

[plucky storm]

Yeah on the RPT man

[astral dragon]

[blissful elk]

[winged fiber]

there's quite a few fights that favor venth

[astral dragon]

name them

i will write it down

are u a multispeccer or just sub nowadays btw? @winged fiber

[winged fiber]

vigilant guardian, artificer, prototype-pantheon, lihuvem depending on timers, anduin

i play everything

w/e is best for a fight

[astral dragon]

cool

any fights u see sin/outlaw being better?

[winged fiber]

yep

sin possibly on dausenge

i definitely think either outlaw or sin will be better for pantheon

i don't really keep up with outlaw stuff much rn so i'm more on the necro sin train

for that fight

but outlaw could also have a case on dasenge / pantheon if their 2 target is decent

depends on tuning

[astral dragon]

necro sin doomblade

[winged fiber]

this is pre 2 leggo of course for prog

[astral dragon]

yeah

i wonder what the difference between sin and outlaw necro is

[winged fiber]

well sin generally is one of the best 2 target specs in the game

especially with necro

[astral dragon]

are there mobs or just 2t?

like any resets

[winged fiber]

dasenge is boss with 2nd target mob constantly spawning / being killed

so yes reset

pantheon is 2 bosses with 4 mobs in cardinal corners of the room

so yes resets

but not super often

[astral dragon]

[winged fiber]

i haven't done my final look over the bosses to decide what i'm going to play if i'm in for prog but

right now it's something like

sub 1st boss, sin dausenge, sub arti, sin/outlaw pantheon, sub lihuvem, sub skolex, sub halondrus, sub anduin

that may change depending on gear rng

[astral dragon]

u mean wep drops or what could sway it

[winged fiber]

tier / stats on gear

like necro sin starts popping off with tier on cleave

[astral dragon]

2p?

[winged fiber]

or if i get ALL crit vers gear

that's better for sub

this stuff matters more when prog only lasts 1 month obviously

so if you have longer prog and more time for gear acquisition instead of being beholden to rng there's a lot more leeway to play specs to their strengths

[blissful elk]

vigilant guardian > The boss himself is already trashy, the most important part is ST
prototype pantheon > 2 bosses target then 4 and 4 mobs in cardinal corners of the room
lihuvem depending on timers > If you don't fail the dps timers, there is 0 add, It's all about the focus target
anduin : When you go down, setup flag is not so simple and the descent does not last 3 hours and if you talk about the second step, it is the same, it is pure cleave @winged fiber

As for the last 3, I have no idea

But as you say, some spec will be more suitable than others anyway !!

I know it well

[winged fiber]

that's just a general outline of what i'm planning on playing

i haven't finalized my shit yet

[blissful elk]

:p

[winged fiber]

guardian 1st boss really does not matter what u play

and there's no reason to flag downstairs on anduin

the mobs don't have enough hp

[blissful elk]

That's why I say it's not easy

[winged fiber]

it is easy

i tested them on multiple specs / covenants or the other rogue in my guild tested them on another spec / covenant and he's a very good rogue

i for the most part know what's good and what i'm going to play

[astral dragon]

i copied ur strats

[winged fiber]

lmao

[blissful elk]

We don't have the same people in our respective guilds !

[astral dragon]

im a non ptr gamer

[potent pawn]

[winged fiber]

i love testing i just hate the lag

shit's damn near unplayable

[astral dragon]

[blissful elk]

150 ms 100 % uptime !

[winged fiber]

1 frame every 17 seconds lol

[blissful elk]

xD

[winged fiber]

for the most part though

if you look at sims / specs strenghts

funnel, 2 target, 4 target, st etc and have timers for the bosses

it's pretty easy to just surmise what's going to be strong on that boss

[astral dragon]

its still kinda hard to just pick depending on sims right, unless its pure ST fight

[winged fiber]

yea it gives you an outline basically

and then you go test those hypothesis

like pantheon for instance i tested sub multiple times the other rogue played sin

sin gapped sub on that fight every time

granted ptr lag yada yada

[astral dragon]

yeah

[blissful elk]

What is your guild ? @winged fiber

[winged fiber]

and he wasn't even necro for the testing

[astral dragon]

would be easy if there were 3 equally geared and skilled rogues on all 3 specs hehe

[winged fiber]

i'm in xD

[astral dragon]

then again we have covenants too

[winged fiber]

yea it's a whole mess of shit

like don't ask me shit about farm / 2 leggo full /near bis setups

i just have a general outline for early prog lol

[south osprey]

Pantheon was funny with back to back procs

[winged fiber]

oh yea

sub has the potential to highroll the fuck out of that boss

[south osprey]

Also double step for adds

[winged fiber]

i got 8 procs in a row in the last phase one pull

dps shot up like 4-5k

[astral dragon]

[winged fiber]

i'll prob play a mix of night fae sin and sub for farm tbh

[astral dragon]

the chance is lowered now tho right

[winged fiber]

i really like the fae sin playstyle

yea it is

[south osprey]

On mythic you have to blast the add shields with the charges

[winged fiber]

yea you drop a nighthunter on them

and then blow them up

[south osprey]

And good look getting the furthest one assigned because wa stupid

Or wheelchair classes in raid

[winged fiber]

lock gate + shadowstep op

[south osprey]

3 locks to cover all angles

[winged fiber]

i mean if the raid is loosely clustered around where the bosses are

the furthest distance is to the opposite add

don't really need a lock gate for the side ones

but you can have one for the side ones to

only need 2

[south osprey]

Maybe you want to move around the platform

Who knows what stuff blizz put in between tests and live

[winged fiber]

there's been a few changes

a fuck ton to halondrus

[stone knoll]

~~ Looking at pinned sims, we’ll be using double (mythic) EoN until we get 285 mainhand right? ~~ (noticed above)

[astral dragon]

Isnt there supposed to be a 278 wep too, or did i mix up

[hushed comet]

there is

iirc there's 2 mythic daggers from raid

272/266 heroic 285/278 mythic i think

[mellow urchin]

278 MH is basically breaking even, slight dps gain over 2 sylv daggers iirc

i cba looking at the 200 lists of sims for actual numbers

[mint sequoia]

Can we stop complaining about sylvanas daggers please? They're super amazing, have an awesome effect, and i already have gear worth using until the end of 9.2 prog. Changing them would be a huge detriment, and if you're salty that you don't own one by now, perhaps you should have killed the boss more times
that is all

meant to say this in this thread in the first place

[pale jetty]

shit loot system

no point in complaining about them being nerfed or w/e

but the fact of the matter is, it was a stupidly poor decision choice by blizz to make rogues be the only class that wants to farm sylv (with exception of the mount)

EP wasn't bad because so many people wanted to farm it

i think people can be salty over it, as long as they're salty about the way blizz set up the loot rather than the dagger itself

idm people having it, i want it to continue into 9.2 being a strong choice for sub, but i will still express how i think it was a completely dumb decision by blizz

[hushed comet]

Can we stop complaining about sylvanas daggers please? They're super amazing, have an awesome effect, and i already have gear worth using until the end of 9.2 prog. Changing them would be a huge detriment, andif you're salty that you don't own one by now, perhaps you should have killed the boss more times

[pale jetty]

i mean idk if we're copy pasta-ing at this point or not but ye

there's my two cents

[winged fiber]

nerf them in .5

by then nobody will care

bet 20$ that happens

[civic terrace]

Can we stop complaining about sylvanas daggers please? They're super amazing, have an awesome effect, and i already have gear worth using until the end of 9.2 prog. Changing them would be a huge detriment, andif you're salty that you don't own one by now, perhaps you should have killed the boss more times

[mellow urchin]

Can we stop complaining about sylvanas daggers please? They're super amazing, have an awesome effect, and i already have gear worth using until the end of 9.2 prog. Changing them would be a huge detriment, andif you're salty that you don't own one by now, perhaps you should have killed the boss more times

[quasi socket]

Can we stop complaining about sylvanas daggers please? They're super amazing, have an awesome effect, and i already have gear worth using until the end of 9.2 prog. Changing them would be a huge detriment, andif you're salty that you don't own one by now, perhaps you should have killed the boss more times

[plucky storm]

I'm just gonna remove that thought before anyone gets a dumb idea

[hushed comet]

[plucky storm]

cause that's jebaited people in the past

[mellow urchin]

damage control

[nova nexus]

go back to assa

[thick wren]

You know he can put it in server name :/

[plucky storm]

go back to valhalla

[mellow urchin]

is that a very far fetched death threat

[nova nexus]

on the engulfed raft already

[plucky storm]

idk his name implies he wants it

[plucky storm]

also I have 0 idea what any of this sentence is

[hushed comet]

gonna get the entire server banned and deleted

[nova nexus]

nah just turn all three rogue specs into BFA sub

fate worse than deleting RH

[unkempt peak]

9.2 feedback and discussion needs to be renamed to "Dagger QQ corner"

[winged fiber]

everyone so concerned over daggers they fail to realize rogue is a mid ass class next tier

[nova nexus]

#buffedgeofnight
#makesubevenmorerngbased

#purpleyahtzeeninja

[unkempt peak]

I think they should add a 5% chance on shadow technique to make your character do a flip

[nova nexus]

this place is going to melt down if/when some other class/spec sims come out

[mellow urchin]

Wdym arent they all like ww and outlaw

[hushed comet]

just go Undead Female?

do a flip every time you eviscerate your enemies

[nova nexus]

[winged fiber]

imagine doing less damage then specs that also bring utility like battle shout, rally, windfury totem, etc

MID CLASS LOL

[mellow urchin]

I think these bis sims dont say much. But its fun to see how much we get hurt by the relative gains from sylv daggers

It was our 10% dps edge in 9.1

[winged fiber]

literally propped up on copium and shiny sylvanus sticks

lol

[nova nexus]

sub can only be good in .5 patches

[mellow urchin]

Still use them in 9.2 but we gain 4% instead while other specs get big gains from new weapons

[winged fiber]

and legendaries

[mellow urchin]

Ye

[winged fiber]

don't forget our 2nd leggos suck

[nova nexus]

akaari is amazing

they nerfed PV in pvp

[mellow urchin]

Tbh just make the daggers a 3rd legendary for rogue and let us scale them to 291

[winged fiber]

make them stronger and make it a legendary

i'd take that over akaaris anyday lmao

[nova nexus]

so an extra .5%

[winged fiber]

at least in aoe we get to use

FINALITY

[nova nexus]

they’re just purple legendaries to fit the sub RP

[winged fiber]

[nova nexus]

i did a key on the warrior with one of our officers… wait you know what you’re doing on warrior?!?

[winged fiber]

reroll request incoming

lmaoooo

[nova nexus]

i don’t think i’d be upset by that

all three rogue specs aren’t exactly making me excited

usually something out of the three says ok that looks fun

[winged fiber]

i'm interested in fae sin

dassaboutit

maybe play around with some necro deathspike outlaw in keys if it's not trash

[nova nexus]

i just worry faeass only going to be useful on reclears

[winged fiber]

pretty much

it's more of a farm thing

at least for me it is

[nova nexus]

yeah

[winged fiber]

might be good on prog depending on last 3

[nova nexus]

i had more than my cup of assa on slyv

[winged fiber]

lol

[nova nexus]

need a break

[winged fiber]

yea i've exclusively played sin on sylv

[hushed comet]

same unfortunately

[winged fiber]

it was way more fun on denny tbh

[hushed comet]

it looks like it's going to be much more fun next tier

but meh

[winged fiber]

cuz there was just so much bleed management you could do

to pump out giga dam

[hushed comet]

i tried to reroll warrior

[winged fiber]

kept me engaged

[hushed comet]

and was banned from rerolling when i got my daggies

😢

[nova nexus]

i would have played sub, but i got the heroic dagger week before we killed. wasn’t going to screw up our timings

so i used it as assa offhand which was probably a dps loss.

bitch was getting stabbed with it after 7 months

[hushed comet]

it's not i don't think

[nova nexus]

no real execute value so stats on a 252 for that fight is better

it’s like a hunter legendary for assa. it’s a real legendary for sub & outlaw

[vernal folio]

frost dk new meta

[unkempt peak]

Enh new meta

[hushed comet]

until 50%

[terse saffron]

Anyone know roughly what time the discussion about using PV-.backstab within dance and the BS/ER-macro was? The scrolling is endless (i.e. did not find it)

[neat dagger]

can u get finality easier in 9.2 or u still have to go to denathrius?

[wind furnace]

you can either get it through the "ranodm legendary" tokens form korthia or kill deno

[potent pawn]

tl;dr if youre on 6 stacks and have more than 3 seconds off dance, use backstab

[wind furnace]

ideally when shb is up too

[clear zephyr]

Has anyone had issues getting rupture to proc 4 set?

[delicate osprey]

nope

[plush pebble]

what do you think, which trinket will we use in 9.2?

what should i aim for to farm?

[delicate osprey]

many raid trinkets are still krangled

so now you just close your eyes and pray

[wind furnace]

you can look at:
https://www.wowhead.com/subtlety-rogue-gear-guide

i keep the list up to date, but it might change a lot

[acoustic cobalt]

why is the haste/vers dagger listed as the bis dagger from m+?

excess of crit with higher ilvl "bis" gear?

[wind furnace]

i am limited to m+ gear from daggers

you realistically would always use raid daggers

if you want to have a more "bis" list in general

you can look at the sims in my spreadsheet that i currently update/rework:
http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[acoustic cobalt]

right - just surprised to see that the mists dagger beat the plaguefall dagger

[wind furnace]

i can re-do a sim on them later/tomorrow

to be sure

[acoustic cobalt]

no worries no need

[wind furnace]

haste is usually quite good for venthyr tho

[crimson belfry]

for the 4pc set, if I am doing a ST fight, does the set proc work like 1st SS>possible WM, set SS>possible WM ? so you can rng 4 whole hits from one?

[wind furnace]

possible yes

but

4 hits?

4p will only proc on a finisher

[crimson belfry]

Ohhh thats where I boneheaded ok

lool

[wind furnace]

not on a strike, so max you can get is 2 hits on a strike

[robust lotus]

wait, they put stats on tier set?

[crimson belfry]

ok ty fuu

[wind furnace]

yes, for quite some time now

[robust lotus]

well, the correct stats

I swear I only asked a couple days ago

time flies

[gusty thunder]

That's some awesome information, thank you. Do we know where should we craft our 2 Legos now that there's more information about loot? Thank you.

[shut valve]

the stats on tier are fuckin amazing 😄

akaari gloves, unity belt

[wind furnace]

rly depends

akaari neck and finalty back is probably best if you play sub only

and craft unity on hands

[shut valve]

why?

necks have lower stat budget than belt/gloves

[wind furnace]

feet/gloves would be perfect

but if you craft unity on feet and want to switch to finalty

[shut valve]

boots are tier

[winter zephyr]

boots arent tier

[shut valve]

oh wait

nvm

[winter zephyr]

lol

[shut valve]

i'm so used to dom socket slots

[wind furnace]

you will lose a lot more than with unity on hands

[shut valve]

just make 2x unity

[wind furnace]

you can do that

[winter zephyr]

this man has tons of gold it would appear

[wind furnace]

but i will allow people to decide for themself

[shut valve]

"tons"

[wind furnace]

as i will put information about slots in my spreadsheet

neverless, the 2nd problem is

you probably want to play assassination too

[shut valve]

what slots are 285 from raid?

[robust lotus]

you don't need tons of gold to craft legos

[shut valve]

no thanks

[wind furnace]

and assassination rly wants the tier hands

[steel meadow]

What spreadsheet

[wind furnace]

the one i use since beta

XD

http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[robust lotus]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/sepulcher-of-the-first-ones-raid-loot-item-levels

[wind furnace]

^ also can !fuu in #subtlety

[shut valve]

high crit belt from jailor

[plucky storm]

The new layout is very cool, super clean

I like it

[wind furnace]

thanks

i think the legendary slot will be the most discussed thing

as people hate to craft unity multiple times

[robust lotus]

just craft it

[wind furnace]

tbh the non tier slots are all fairly good

[robust lotus]

all have haste

🤢

looking like a lot of gear gonna be m+ supplement for sub tbh

[wind furnace]

ye

[robust lotus]

ritual commanders ring probably better than the ritual bone band

[steel meadow]

Melandrus ring bad?

Seems like it scales very well

And we will have access to legion tw since 17 march

[wind furnace]

i only added countermeasure so far

[robust lotus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tKkbPfK1Wb23aJjfZfKBtt

[wind furnace]

but i will update/double check my gear list

👍

[robust lotus]

[wind furnace]

i should have all gear pieces on it, but might missed one or two

but for now rly want to finish the profiles before doing that

as that already takes ages

😛

[robust lotus]

yeah trinkets are the only thing

that are in the air

everything else gear-wise looks good to me

[wind furnace]

btw. what profile is that

with 16.3k

[robust lotus]

literally copied ur sim profile

exactly

from the raw input

[wind furnace]

oh

did you use potion of agility?

[robust lotus]

I copied the raw input exactly

[wind furnace]

was just curios bc. i did sim 16.7

[robust lotus]

yeah not sure why it's different

[wind furnace]

will look later/tomorrow

need to check what soulbind to use on night fae for m+ -.-

[robust lotus]

maybe nightly issue hold on

signed out of raidbots

[wind furnace]

all fine, its not a big issue

[robust lotus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/haAA4wFYuUBQfeBx72Sg2R saved

[wind furnace]

ye, i was fairly certain i had all items on my list

but still good call

[robust lotus]

can try vers/vers too

[wind furnace]

i will double check everything once i finished

[robust lotus]

crince it massively inflates crit

[wind furnace]

alright koryan it is

😛

first strike to strong

[robust lotus]

at most it'll only be 0.1% difference

yuh

[wind furnace]

press "sim again"

now its 0%

just kidding, possible that its a upgrade

[robust lotus]

variance on lower iterations I suppose

[wind furnace]

i did only use clear upgrades

so ye possible

but again, i can double check my gear list its possible i don't have the ring on it

[robust lotus]

the rings from raid are kinda stinky no matter what for sub

[wind furnace]

because i missed it

the aa ring from cos is also sth i need to look at

[robust lotus]

hopefully the passive offsets the giga haste

[wind furnace]

also funny thing

idk if you looked at my trinket list on wowhead

but one is not like the others 😛

[jovial sleet]

during shadow blades, do I evi on 4 cp or waste cps and force 6 cp evis?

[wind furnace]

5+

unless you have 4 targets

also @robust lotus i am all for having the best possible item in any slot even if its only .2% dps overall

[jovial sleet]

is there any gear with special effects in new raid?

[wind furnace]

i think there is a 1h weapon

[jovial sleet]

thats worth considering

[wind furnace]

for subtlety

trinkets i would say

btw. i am split on chains trinket

[robust lotus]

trinkets are a guess rn so

[wind furnace]

because:

[robust lotus]

uncapped

[wind furnace]

idk how reliable you can proc it

[mellow urchin]

8 yards is nothing

[wind furnace]

it sims highest but by such a small margin

might be worth using a diffrent one

[mellow urchin]

i dont think the sim is even using the 2nd part

or am i just blind

[wind furnace]

is it not

huh

if not, then its def. rly good

need to check implementation at some point

[robust lotus]

if it's not proccing the chain it's losing essentially 40% of it's proc damage in sim

[mellow urchin]

I am not seeing the 2nd part, if someone else can take a look

to see if they find it

[robust lotus]

it's not

chains of domination has 180s interval

[wind furnace]

its possible that its not using it

[robust lotus]

so that's the on use

[steel meadow]

Is it 12k per hit or 12k overall. If 2nd, its unbeievably shit

[wind furnace]

seems ignorable

[mellow urchin]

12k overall

[steel meadow]

...

[mellow urchin]

how is that bad tho

that part is uncapped aoe

and it can probably crit too

[steel meadow]

Still bad for 285 ilvl trink with 3 min cd

[wind furnace]

its only one part of it

[mellow urchin]

ye it does 35k dmg instantly

and then another chunk of dmg

[wind furnace]

but i agree, isaying its ignorable was a overstatement

my bad

[steel meadow]

I mean 33 + 12 once per every 3 min
That doesnt seem like good raid trinket

[mellow urchin]

if its already simming well without the 2nd part, its prob quite good when that works

well its also high agi

[wind furnace]

it is bis without 2nd part, so even if you ignore it it is rly strong

also, i just found out i need to re-sim something for dungeon slice

[lost mulch]

Is it moving 8 yards away from target does the second part?

[wind furnace]

yes

[lost mulch]

Ok that's easy to do

[nova nexus]

i bet you can cancel aura it

[lost mulch]

Oh, that's a good idea

[wind furnace]

not sure, would need to test

[mellow urchin]

would have been nice to test the trinkets

[lament ore]

oh Push is green

neat

[nova nexus]

also are we including the versa covenant use trinket pre pull shenanigans?

[mellow urchin]

doubt thats going to last very long if it works

[lost mulch]

More shenanigans? Noo

[nova nexus]

the trinket is on the ptr

can test it.

[mellow urchin]

1200 vers or whatever it is, equals to like 20% vers

kinda strong

idk if its more or less

cus of DR

but its big

[mellow urchin]

is it?

[nova nexus]

yes

trinket vendor with the pvp ones

262 ilvl i think

[lost mulch]

What are these shenanigans? Can someone point me to some info?

[nova nexus]

sub faq has them

#subtlety-faq

unless fuu blew it up

[lost mulch]

Ty I'll look

[steel meadow]

buff is gone when u switch trink

so no prepull stuff ig

[mellow urchin]

yep, doesnt work

[wind furnace]

thats good

sub rogue already has a lot of shananigans

😛

[steel meadow]

well dust prepull also gone

[wind furnace]

huh?

worked still fine last time i checked

[mellow urchin]

gonna test that too

[steel meadow]

u are fully losing ur cdr for symbols after switch so at pull u have like 7-8 seconds of it and 29 sec cd

[winged fiber]

Pog

Dust dead 🦀

[wind furnace]

did they hotfix it 👀

[steel meadow]

also cdr for dance works at strange way

[wind furnace]

time to go back to deathly pre pull

[mellow urchin]

deathly prepull not even worth for kyrian right

[winged fiber]

I’m cool with deathly prepull for prog

[delicate osprey]

btw in bosses where we do dust pre pull and play tornado

[winged fiber]

Doesn’t cost tomes

[delicate osprey]

you can use tornado before pull too

[wind furnace]

i haven't checked it for 9.2

but as mentioned earlier in #subtlety will do tomorrow or so

[steel meadow]

dno, but it works like this for last two or three weeks (at ptr) so prob

[robust lotus]

just do regular opener

[steel meadow]

maybe another bug

[delicate osprey]

but yea the chain trinket can also be kinda gamed

with obedience

with that huge base dmg even some vers is kinda waowaowao

[steel meadow]

'huge'

[delicate osprey]

12k aoe hit is huge for a trinket

[wind furnace]

but my jucy .5% dps

[delicate osprey]

nothing will come close as a damage for instant service on a pack

and anything that makes mists 1st boss easier is A OK in my book

[steel meadow]

i dunno, its 3 min cd and its st damage seems bad

its like current fusion amplifier level but its 252 and 1.5 min cd

Lol

[robust lotus]

it has agi

[mellow urchin]

agility

[delicate osprey]

i mean even grim codex is better than amplifier for uncapped dungeons

[steel meadow]

well there is many other trinkets in raid

[mellow urchin]

there are CN trinkets that did 30k dmg as well, on 1.5 min cd

[delicate osprey]

agi and ilvl are king

[lost mulch]

Do love me some big trink dam

[delicate osprey]

will not make sub burst high but still it is something kek

[mellow urchin]

and ye also just tested the prepull shit

and it doesnt work

[lost mulch]

Secretly happy

[pseudo crown]

Jailer chain trinket seems kinda nutty for m+

[quartz idol]

what is the fix?

[mellow urchin]

man the macros barely work

[wind furnace]

did they fix deathly completely

*dust

or just the extended

dethly still works?

[steel meadow]

deathly yes

[wind furnace]

i can else try on ptr tomorrow

[mellow urchin]

so ive procd the fucking 4p twice on the snd prepull

[nova nexus]

haha

[wind furnace]

outside of stealth?

[delicate osprey]

ayayaya

[mellow urchin]

yea

[wind furnace]

i did use it in stealth and it didn't work

[delicate osprey]

one way trip to the grave

[robust lotus]

well it has max range

[wind furnace]

so probably has a condition for "stealth" and "out of combat" to not work

[robust lotus]

so as long as you're outside that it's fine

[delicate osprey]

you can modify the macro to not have 4p before using snd

so you get even more inted if they prepull

[wind furnace]

or..

use snd during stealth

then unstealth + macro

[nova nexus]

too much work

[mellow urchin]

ye so the shadowdust cdr is removed

when you swap it out

as korvin pointed out

[steel meadow]

not fully, for some reason u have like half of it for dance

[mellow urchin]

just wanted to double check

[steel meadow]

but for symbols its gone at all

[nova nexus]

oh no stonks 📉

[wind furnace]

so...

you can still do mfd snd?

[mellow urchin]

related to dark shadow perhaps

[steel meadow]

yes you can do mfd snd

[wind furnace]

well that would be equal to deathly

no need to do dust for that

[delicate osprey]

dust died rip

[robust lotus]

would be slightly better than deathly cos you don't burn vanish

even tho vanish stinks

[delicate osprey]

now only op for pvp

[mellow urchin]

you burn vanish

for both

[wind furnace]

you need to burn vanish

[delicate osprey]

my man kieron forgot

[wind furnace]

because you need mfd to be off cooldown

[delicate osprey]

XD

[wind furnace]

to switch talents

[nova nexus]

you burn vanish for both

[mellow urchin]

regardless, happy its gone, sort of

[delicate osprey]

someone else say it burns vanish fast

[robust lotus]

Can tell I don't do it

[steel meadow]

didnt u hear guys, but u burn vanish for both

[mellow urchin]

kinda annoying to do

[robust lotus]

Guys it doesn't burn vanish!

[delicate osprey]

pog

[wind furnace]

need to change my wowhead guide for that tomorrow too -.-

[robust lotus]

ethical gaming only

[delicate osprey]

now we can min max dagger damage changing daggers after getting to 285

[mellow urchin]

i never put it in the method guide

ez

[delicate osprey]

in like the 3rth month of the patch

guys got rigelon dagger POG

sweet 1% dam

[mellow urchin]

felt like you shouldnt learn the spec by doing degen stuff

[delicate osprey]

and then you change it at 50% or 25 anyway

[wind furnace]

did put it under a drop down

[lost mulch]

I'm going to have to tell my RL to stop /pull 12 aren't I

[wind furnace]

but ye

[delicate osprey]

dont worry locks etc still need their shit

same as dk if any of those exist still in your raid

[steel meadow]

what is dk

[lost mulch]

And tell my boomies stop early pull

[nova nexus]

oh shit… new outlaw sims

[wind furnace]

?

[wind furnace]

saw that

[nova nexus]

glad guy is working hard on that apl

finally paying off

[winged fiber]

[nova nexus]

[delicate osprey]

should have said sub pvp spec

cheapshot more

[warm olive]

sub sux xd

[left storm]

They still using placeholder stats on the PTR?

[mellow urchin]

nope

[left storm]

ok sick

guessing the usualy suspects for akaari's crit/vers?

[mellow urchin]

crit/vers is likely our best stats in 9.2 as well ye

[steel meadow]

dust can be rough these days

[mellow urchin]

Wait what

So swapping out dust just adds 30 sec cd

That’s the fix?

[steel meadow]

its just funny moment i realize, they just adding 20 extra seconds if symbols are on cd

so u can have 50 seconds symbols

[mellow urchin]

Nice

[steel meadow]

nothing critical but kind of meme

[mellow urchin]

I mean it is an easy fix

For the degen

So I can understand it

[steel meadow]

also fuu really need to double check his profiles, venthyr has 47% crit
it wont equialize with kyrian but for sure will catch up a bit

[mellow urchin]

It’s cus of fcm

I guess you can swap some rings

[steel meadow]

not exclusively, there is 1330 crit, so yea, need to check rings and neck

and prob swap something

[mellow urchin]

Well the difference between the 2 is the trinket right

Otherwise same gear

[steel meadow]

no

also ring

venthyr has crit haste ring for some reason

(not melandrus)

even if u will need a bit of haste to have ~9-10%, im p sure something with vers-haste would be better

[mellow urchin]

He didn’t sim melandrus yet

Vers heavy ring prob better

Ye

[potent pawn]

wait so dust is actually fixed 😮

[robust lotus]

fuu said he will cover more items tomorrow

[mellow urchin]

yea

[potent pawn]

thank fuck

[robust lotus]

to find the best for the simc collation

[potent pawn]

what about deathly?

[steel meadow]

they fixed dust exactly when i wasted all my bought tomes

[mellow urchin]

deathly was fixed long ago

[steel meadow]

only 3 left

perfection

[potent pawn]

sadge, i kinda liked deathly for QoL

but i'll take no degen stuff

as a net win

[mellow urchin]

the snd only deathly is kinda weak

[steel meadow]

u can use it for QoL

[robust lotus]

just SS > SnD again

[potent pawn]

yeah something something 0 dps gain

[steel meadow]

for venthyr its around 70 dps, for kyrian its nothing

but u can

[potent pawn]

but not casting snd is comfy

why is it a 0 gain for kyrian?

[astral dragon]

yeah i like deathly just for smooth opener

no dps gain w/e

[potent pawn]

surely it has to be like

5 dps or something

[mellow urchin]

cus it has no burst

[potent pawn]

oh true

[mellow urchin]

and you dont need to get going

skipping that 1 gcd doesnt matter as much

[nova nexus]

the burst spec with no burst.

[mellow urchin]

whatever you think about it

[potent pawn]

is sub even a burst spec anymore?

[nova nexus]

no

[mellow urchin]

venthyr flag has some burst

its not big

but its more than kyrian

[nova nexus]

yea

[potent pawn]

oh true

[nova nexus]

sub is just short cds with a lot of versatility without changing talents

[potent vault]

@mellow urchin

how did they fix dust

[mellow urchin]

when you swap out the dust legendary

you b asically just gain +20 seconds on your cds

idk the exact number

but 20-30

[potent pawn]

^

[steel meadow]

20

[mellow urchin]

is it actually 20

cus that seems weird

or well

[steel meadow]

29 cd symbols became 49

[mellow urchin]

it doesnt really

ye ok

[steel meadow]

it is what it is

[ruby siren]

so for 9.2 we want Akaari's on Neck with Crit/Vers, and Unity on belt also Crit/Vers?

ST obv

[winter zephyr]

@ruby siren ^

[ruby siren]

Thanks

[winter zephyr]

Yep

heads up if you play assa as well you will probs just want to craft 2 unity's to full optimize OR put it in a diff slot

like boots or something

[ruby siren]

Unity on hands, wow

Nah I am gonna stick with Sub

[winter zephyr]

then yeah just do what fuu said

[mellow urchin]

so the issue is that tier gloves have dogtamer stats for sub

[ruby siren]

I just want to buy any relevant mats before Tuesday before people start marking up like crazy

[winter zephyr]

yeh i did that a few days ago

[mellow urchin]

and there are no good gloves from m+ either

so having a legendary in that slot is just very good

[ruby siren]

sorry Push, what does dogtamer mean?

[winter zephyr]

bad

[mellow urchin]

bad

[ruby siren]

I know you're saying bad stats but

like what does that TERM mean lol

[mellow urchin]

idk its just twitch words

[ruby siren]

I've never heard that before lol

god I'm old

[mellow urchin]

i am old as well, i just watch quin69

and he adds dog-insert word to anything

[ruby siren]

Okay, thanks for the good advice, I'll prep for Unity on Hands and buy a 262 neckpiece now

[mellow urchin]

isnt 262 necks super expensive

[winter zephyr]

dont buy 262 neck brother!

[ruby siren]

No?

[mellow urchin]

• you have to consider that you cant upgrade an already made 262 legendary to 291

you would need the 291 vessel

[winter zephyr]

^

[shut valve]

@mellow urchin gz on the CF role brother ❤️

[winter zephyr]

291 legos unlock pretty quick too

[ruby siren]

Oh, true

[mellow urchin]

thanks

[shut valve]

long overdue

[mellow urchin]

i have kinda been against

having it

for quite a while

[shut valve]

idk, i feel like the useful ppl in here should take it

[ruby siren]

Is Unity legendary also gonna require a vessel or is it forged a different way?

[mellow urchin]

same way

[shut valve]

i'll always trust a green over a light blue 😄

[mellow urchin]

unity is just a memory you unlock

[mellow urchin]

ye i guess

you will however.. have the unity belt

but thats 265

and doesnt have a socket

iirc

[ruby siren]

Sorry for all the questions

Is Unity gonna be directly craftable to 291? Can I craft Unity and Akaari both to 291 at the same time, or will I have to wait to farm an item and upgrade them one at a time?

[winter zephyr]

one at a time

its same as it is rn just with new currency

[ruby siren]

basically should I buy a vessel for hands now in anticipation of 291/265

Okay

[mellow urchin]

but i see a lot of people talking about what slot they should buy legendaries in rn. And you kinda have to consider the fact that you will buy a 262 legendary for maybe 50-100k now and then when you want a 291 legendary like 2 weeks into 9.2 which requires you to buy a 291 item for maybe 100k+. So in the end you're just adding 50k-100k cost when you could have kept ur current shit and just bought the 291 directly.

[ruby siren]

The game gives you Unity on the belt in week 3 of 9.2 right?

And after that you get to choose what slot to craft it in?

[mellow urchin]

week 5

iirc

[potent pawn]

thought its w5 you get double leggo

[mellow urchin]

week 3 of mythic

[ruby siren]

Oh right, thank you, that's what I was thinking of

[winter zephyr]

gotta be revered to choose which spot to craft in

[hushed comet]

only leggo you really NEED rn is RC

iirc

[mellow urchin]

RC will be the play for 5 weeks of the patch

or obedience

just like now

[hushed comet]

pointless to craft akaaris and finality

[winter zephyr]

yeh im just staying venth tbh

[ruby siren]

I plan to grind that asap

[winter zephyr]

and then ill swap

[ruby siren]

I want to play Venth but Kyrian is just so strong comparitively ST

so I'm actually grinding the renown for it now

[mellow urchin]

i think its a good choice to have both leveled

even if you prefer 1 or the other

[ruby siren]

Exactly

I'll play whatever keeps me relevant

I don't want a repeat of 9.0 where I get benched to UH and WW

[mellow urchin]

also NF is a joker

i have all but necro at 80

[ruby siren]

Nice

I just completed the campaign, did the callings, doing Torghast now then anima/korthia weekly to finish

Okay so I'm trying to make a timeline of how my legendaries are gonna work, I think this is correct

Start with Obedience

get Unity 265 belt week 5

craft Akaari on Neck

re-craft Unity on gloves

[steel meadow]

necrosub is secretly op

[mellow urchin]

would just play any of the other 2 specs than necro sub

[mellow urchin]

if you have tier gloves

and no replacement

you want the 4p

[ruby siren]

Yeah hard to make plans when you're dependant on tier dropping in the right slots lol

I guess I'm overthinking this by trying to prepare

[mellow urchin]

its hard to prepare when its rng

[ruby siren]

In the end the gold doesn't mean much to me anyway

[mellow urchin]

well then its fine right

[ruby siren]

Yeah 🙂

Thanks again boys

[gusty thunder]

I really don't want to play assassination, but I haven't seen any of the fights tbh.

[robust lotus]

then don't play it

[gusty thunder]

You're right, but I do want to play whatever is best for that fight. I'm currently playing both specs in SoC

[winged fiber]

the only fight so far where i've seen a noticeable difference between sin and sub is pantheon