my 13k is without anything today
#9.2 Feedback and Discussion
worn prawn
livid ferry
i have a 13.4 with no bugs
tardy oracle
buoyant gyro
Trying to sort things out is impossible though because so many Assassination players get simp'd if you just hide the logs you're basically hiding tons of the top players
mellow urchin
all i am saying is, just because sub is 1k ahead of assa in simc dps it doesnt mean ppl will play sub cus its like 700 dps ahead of assa atm and its still not like sub is running away with the dmg
nova nexus
but yeah unless there’s a reason to bring sub (fight) and assa is remotely close you’re playing assa
arctic field
Crafting legendary as helm instead of neck gives better stats right?
buoyant gyro
This is why they need to fix WCL
quartz idol
removing externals like that is hiding logs from people that have both though
buoyant gyro
Logs analysis right now is impossible
mellow urchin
"oh ur simming 1k more dps" but heres a spec that has like 0 rng and you can control 100% of its output by just playing good
buoyant gyro
WCL has become useless for this kind of thing without filters for externals 😦
tepid prawn
wait the extension doesn't work for me
I can't press the backlash key without modifiers, that doesn't work on ISO keyboard layouts
but I don't see any way to change that 
livid ferry
either way the idea of having assa and sub at equal level just means assa will be better lol
mellow urchin
WCL has become useless for this kind of thing without filters for externals 😦
the nerf to KA saves us (a tiny bit)
nova nexus
necro fury maybe dead now
mellow urchin
they also unironically buffed the kyrian part of it
so linking ur KA to a kyrian spec is prob better
than anything else
since boomies love mastery
mossy carbon
bears are still likely to play kyrian I think, not sure how good mastery is for them
mellow urchin
i dont think the bear gets to decide
whats good for them
in terms of their simping
whoever gains the most
buoyant gyro
the nerf to KA saves us (a tiny bit)
Yeah it's a good change
3% is still a lot but it's gonna at least be a much lower impact
nova nexus
did anything change with 4pc and snapshotting?
mellow urchin
bugfixes werent listed
buoyant gyro
Probably based on the ratios this makes the Mastery about the same tbh lol.. maybe slightly higher but actually much closer than it is now. Non-mastery ones were over double rating-equivalent value
nova nexus
didn’t know if that would be an announced change or not
buoyant gyro
Oh strange
mellow urchin
and it was already higher
than 3%
with 150
so idk
in terms of relative stat gains
3% is like what, 100 haste
buoyant gyro
8% crit was a bit over 300 rating iirc
mellow urchin
yea
delicate osprey
best thing was no dr
hoary zephyr
Also the haste snapshot will also get fixed no? @buoyant gyro
delicate osprey
so we could drip to 61% crit or so
hoary zephyr
I am not sure if it was addressed
mellow urchin
only scari knows that
delicate osprey
yea we need to wait until friday am reset after restart
then we game
cool thing is that outlaw rc+dust will become super oppresive in pvp and will get nerfed kekw
let us say another one bites the dust tho it is possible dust becomes something with the cdr power
mellow urchin
man idk ppl hate on the outlaw set, but that set should be pretty good with downtime and movement, just firing fucking guns
all over the place
delicate osprey
seems real solid ye
nova nexus
range rogue meme to dream
mellow urchin
literally play ranged rogue
nova nexus
to reality
mossy carbon
I want to play outlaw again, hopefully it's not fucked too hard on any fights
hearty veldt
Im not interested in trying outlaw unless they do something to make one of the pistol shot leggos better, no interest in playing celerity again
nova nexus
I want to play combat. 
@mellow urchin the possible realization that outlaw has less variance, more burst and a ranged attack. 
mellow urchin
ye
outlaw could unironically be good for prog reasons 
if the ranged shit is actually somewhat decent
feral schooner
Guys it still has rtb
nova nexus
less rng than sub at this rate
weary goblet
conduits make rtb better
mellow urchin
i would say their biggest rng lies in the sinister strike procs
not getting sinister strike procs on taht spec is miserable
everything becomes giga slow
mossy carbon
Thanks fuu
wind furnace
so ye, 25% -> 18%
wind furnace
Tier set nerf puts it around 17-18% damage value down from 25%.
This means the tier set went down to ~75% in efficiency.
Keep in mind that the sim assumes all bugfixes while we haven't confirmed them yet.
hearty veldt
the previously pinned kyrian sim was still accurate up to this morning yea (13841 dps)? So its about a 530 loss?
livid ferry
should go check out enhance shammy
wind furnace
sry that i didn't sim earlier but i needed to do sth for my gf
will update all pinned sims tomorrow
hearty veldt
should never apologize for that, appreciate what you do and how fast you get this stuff out anyways
livid ferry
any legendary resimmers
autumn jungle
sry that i didn't sim earlier but i needed to do sth for my gf
Weird flex but ok
wind furnace
XD, its not what you think
buoyant gyro
Only a weird flex for an MMO player 🤣
livid ferry
so its a roughly 25% nerf to the set pieces right
nova nexus
his girl keeps getting him into guilds the way i’ve heard it explained. 
wind furnace
this means
subtlety gets a 18% relative damage increase from 4p + best single legendary
assassination a 25% relative damage increase from 4p + best single legendary
unsure how high it is for outlaw
baseline for sub is still a lot higher tho
nova nexus
did anyone run the assa 4pc without the snap shotting?
buoyant gyro
No it would require some fundamental changes to turn that on or off
nova nexus
kk
wind furnace
also will need to double check the apl changes, but i assume they are still fine
buoyant gyro
Sub and Outlaw definitely gain more from it than Assassination
wind furnace
assassination also gets good value from sylvanas
but sub esp. with kyrian gets insane value
thin arrow
Hows the feeling for M+ are we still going to be a high value Spec or other classes becoming way more valuable ?
elder cloak
Was skeptical sub would be nerfed in line with sin, the baselines are just too different
nova nexus
i’m still stuck in snow. can try to get on later
crisp lichen
servers still offline
wind furnace
ah thanks, i will look at things tomorrow. appreciate any input 🙂
dire perch
online now
subtle shale
is the 13.3k sim with akaris?
mellow urchin
yes
buoyant gyro
As far as I know
mellow urchin
so sims are with all bugfixes they talked about?
yes
new values on the trinket
38k on 3 min cd, i fucking hope it can crit
nova nexus
that’s a nerf i bet for sub
oh wait nm
shadow still there
thought they were both shadow
nova nexus
yeah
mellow urchin
but its uncapped dmg from what it reads like
so potentially sick for m+ if anything
livid ferry
doesnt seem like akaari 4pc stuff is fixed
mellow urchin
either not fixed or not intended to be fixed
but that means its a bigger "nerf" than whatever fuu posted
and it probably means we dont play akaari
livid ferry
ye
dire perch
Second shadow strike its akaari
rare ether
akaari's is intended to be fixed; qa says it's in this build that went to ptr
so if you're not seeing it there's something up
mellow urchin
it doesnt happen if you just shuriken storm and spam BP on 4 targets, shadowstrikes happen but no akaari dmg
hearty veldt
tested it myself, definitely not fixed, and furthermore im not sure WM is working with the set bonus either atm
mellow urchin
Second shadow strike its akaari
didnt see this
hearty veldt
9 bonus procs on 89 casts of shadow strike between weaponmaster AND tier set?
mellow urchin
rng
hearty veldt
16 bonus procs on another test
nova nexus
rng
livid ferry
It did just storm -> evis
hearty veldt
pre nerf proc test i did other day
livid ferry
With akaari on
hearty veldt
55 bonus procs almost
mellow urchin
akaari's is intended to be fixed; qa says it's in this build that went to ptr
I get akaari procs on 4t now without actually using shadowstrike, so it seems to work. Idk why it didnt at first
nah it works DK
livid ferry
Maybe just ptr fuckery
mellow urchin
idk what ur smoking
livid ferry
Probably ptr fuckery
mellow urchin
livid ferry
Ye
mellow urchin
the 5.3% is akaari
crisp lichen
atleast I never have to enter a casino again
after playing the slot machine that much
livid ferry
get your gamba fix in wow
pale jetty
ive been away, did they just rng nerf
cedar yew
1% on 2p and 5% on 4p
pale jetty
oh was it simmed
manic mesa
ill post the full notes on wowgeneral gloom
pale jetty
eh
not a bad nerf i guess
i expected a bigger nerf since they're going to be implementing a bunch of shit
mellow urchin
for scarizard: i am just curious, did you guys change akaari to be able to independently proc weaponmaster?
to solve the infinite loop?
for some "evidence"
autumn jungle
yo Push how's your spriest doing lol
mellow urchin
main shadowstrikes, 146 casts (19 wm procs)
akaari shadowstrikes 146 casts (10 wm procs)
i am almost certain that before this build, akaari would just simply match whatever WM you got on your main shadowstrike
adding another roll of WM to akaari also makes it more rng, so i guess thats great for the casino fantasy of sub rogue
mellow urchin
yo Push how's your spriest doing lol
i was never rerolling
buoyant gyro
Wouldn't that completely depend on the timing intervals?
Given that WM has an ICD on it
cedar yew
Wait, whats the icd on WM?
cedar yew
I've been wondering something. Sub is clearly simming higher than sin atm, but what if you removed the daggers? Isent daggers like.. much better for sub? Wouldnt it bring sub and sin closer together on st?
I assume you wont use sylv daggers in 9.2
cedar yew
mellow urchin
Wouldn't that completely depend on the timing intervals?
i am not sure wth this is tbh
-5 hits?
regular shadowstrikes
something is really fuckywucky with this akaari change
buoyant gyro
Not totally sure what I’m looking at here
mint sequoia
I mean, the icd probably just makes it so that you can't get a wm hit on both the original strike and the akaari's one, right?
it'd be too soon
mellow urchin
Not totally sure what I’m looking at here
first picture is akaari
2nd is shadowstrike
from the same combatlog
mellow urchin
I mean, the icd probably just makes it so that you can't get a wm hit on both th...
doesnt explain the loss of akaari strikes
buoyant gyro
Would really need logs to confirm what it is that you’re seeing probably. There’s lot of issues with Akaari matching up vs refresh timing or conflicting ICD intervals so it’s hard to say only from the counts alone
mellow urchin
ive never seen
akaari be below casts
before
even outside of logs
and this is from the log
buoyant gyro
I’m not sure what you mean in terms of Akaari vs casts. It’s always been possible to “lose” Akaari procs depending on specific timing cases. We discussed it a while back in this channel and Fuu and I outlined the timing that leads to it in a spreadsheet.
mellow urchin
nah
not like this
ive played with akaari for quite a while
never seen a log where its actually going below the amount of shadowstrike casts
in hits
i know what ur talking about, i understand it
but this is something else
mellow urchin
not sure what i am looking at either
left storm
You think something is bugged?
mellow urchin
no
but they introduced some new tech to akaari
and idk what they changed and trying to find out what it is
unkempt peak
With the bug getting fixed, but the set getting nerfed, I'm guessing it's a overall DPS loss, but not by as much as expected?
Because the bugs getting fixed should increase the set potency right?
left storm
I think fuu posted the dps loss in the pins
he posted some actual sims earlier you can scroll back through and find
unkempt peak
Ahhhh yeah I see them, I'm surprised to see kyrian crushing it by that much, although after playing with the set on PTR as both kyrian and venthyr it will be interesting to see who picks what. As someone who already disliked the kyrian anima charged playstyle it made me hate it even more, constantly having a harder time hitting CPs because of both the 2 and 4pc
left storm
I like kyrian..its a pretty chill play style.
unkempt peak
That overall loss is pretty rough, knew the set was OP, but still sucks to see.
left storm
Just play what you like man
Im sure people will do well with it just like before it was buffed.
unkempt peak
Maybe I need to approach it differently, I found I wasted so much uptime as kyrian, either waiting for a sectec proc or focusing too much on trying to hit one of the annoying AC CP. Rather than just actually playing the game
I don't know if that makes sense, but I felt like I just tunneled those CPs even though I had like 20 seconds left to hit it.
woeful plinth
excuse me is sub dead
livid ferry
is it a damage boost to use kyrian ability during symbols and dance
i guess symbols 100%
find weakness tho?
buoyant gyro
With the bug getting fixed, but the set getting nerfed, I'm guessing it's a over...
Depends on if you are comparing to sims or comparing to PTR logs. Since PTR didn’t yet have a lot of bug fixes that sims already had the actual change was probably fairly small. But since sims were already assuming those things as being fixed it’s down a fair bit compared to previous ones.
wind furnace
and it probably means we dont play akaari
unsure about that
akaari was on ~5.3% dps, and only .3% of it is due to 4p
PV did give akaari a high value, so possible that it still is our strongest choice on pure st
wind furnace
I think fuu posted the dps loss in the pins
i did, but i updated the pins now, so it should reflect the new values
nerf is around 25%
wind furnace
i hit silvermoon raiding training dumy
only use order hall or og dummies, others can be buggy
kyrian pushes ahead due to PV, and this is nothing new
feral schooner
Is the new tech that should fix alle the bugs from the set now in this ptr build or not?
wind furnace
yes, all bugs should be fixed, i will test in some minutes
feral schooner
So this means we can make up the damage we lost through the tset nerf with the bugfixes correct? I read now akaari isn't the legendary we want in st is that correct? And ty fuu
wind furnace
well depends on what you mean with lost
if we compare it on ptr, it means that we now have interactions we previously did not have.
this means we potentially did not lose output
in terms of pure damage gain from tier set in the sim with assumption of bugfixes
it is a around 25% nerf to the set
feral schooner
if we compare it on ptr, it means that we now have interactions we previously di...
For a noob like me how much damage increase (%) wise are these interaction a damage gain?
wind furnace
hard to say exactly
but find weakness proccing from 4p should be a fairly strong interaction
esp. in m+
and m+ is the main content you can do on ptr
feral schooner
Ok
shell dragon
i think im stupid, what is PV?
feral schooner
shell dragon
thank
feral schooner
Np
You want to finish this at 5-6 stacks between dances. It's fine to go into a dance when you bs with 3 combo points. This conduit imo is one of the main things to play around as kyrian next to the Anima charge combo points.
neat dagger
Hey guys , dev said the set is fixxed yesterday ist this confirmed now?
mellow urchin
Yes
Would be nice having like 2 set 1 legendary, 4 set 1 legendary sims
Now that the set is fixed and nerfed
wind furnace
Would be nice having like 2 set 1 legendary, 4 set 1 legendary sims
sure, can do, just want to confirm some bugs to be fixed first
4p 1 legendary
as i did sim that earlier already
mellow urchin
sure, can do, just want to confirm some bugs to be fixed first
They are fixed but the akaari fix is weird
Its not behaving exactly like sim ingame
mellow urchin
It seems to have its own WM instead of procing on regular WMs
wind furnace
shb does extend now, so that bug is fixed
was one i expected to be just "how it works"
mellow urchin
Might just be premed one
Havent touched that talent on ptr but i dont understand how it is meant to give snd
You have to proc a 4p exactly same time as you press dance
Or on aoe ofc
wind furnace
alright, so i can confirm:
- shb extends buffs of shb
- symbols is not consumed by 4p proc
- set does apply fw
premed seems to be not consumed from strike of the 4p
what is iirc like its intended
had a 4p proc when doing storm-evi on the 5 target dummy and it seemed to not consume the premed buff
happened a 2nd time, i am confident it does not interact
coarse quiver
this all seems like stuff that was already in
what was actually aded in this build?
wind furnace
so the 2 things that need testing are:
- akaari behaviour
- if ER interacts correctly with the 4p
@mellow urchin did you test ER already?
mellow urchin
this all seems like stuff that was already in
It wasnt
mellow urchin
<@!153289634909126656> did you test ER already?
I did not specifically test it no
You forgot to add that 4p is now giving 2p
Which is probably the biggest dps bugfix
wind furnace
yes 2p from 4p works too
did update the pin for it.
put "needs further testing" section for akaari/er
mellow urchin
I think the 4p procs can give 5 seconds of blades for each target it hits
So if you are lucky, you can get 20 seconds of blades in a 4 target situation
From 1 proc
But thats very rng
wind furnace
it can proc multiple times
i just got 10 secs of shb from a proc on the 5 dummy in the order hall
feral schooner
Nice
south osprey
Are these two seteffects the ones with the most interactions of any seteffect from any expac ever?
feral schooner
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d4R8kCiGDCVrHVEhhdFJb5>
Whats with 2 legendarys?
stark sierra
Whats with 2 legendarys?
#916284169057878037 message should be this one
Right after the pin for the nerfs
feral schooner
ok ty
woeful plinth
I'm too impatient to wait for updated raidbots. Will we use backstab inside dance or only outside?
visual olive
pretty sure we still stab in dance with pv rn
5+ stacks with 3 or more secs of dance
otherwise we just waste pv stacks
midnight goblet
hey everyone just try new ptr build*
i didn't see any 2P proc at all in a 8min+ ST dummy fight
so am i unlucky like hell or did someone tell already that and i didn't see it while reading all your comments ?
mossy carbon
Need to hit dummies in Orgrimmar or class hall (some other places too). The turnips in Oribos won't work if you were using those
midnight goblet
i was using Zandalar dummy, far away from other dummy avoiding extra SS with 4P
mossy carbon
Zandalar doesn't work also I believe
It definitely works in Orgrimmar when I checked this morning
midnight goblet
Ok i go try orgri
38 4P on 8min is very sad
on a 5min fight i got like almost dble this amount
Annd this was pretty cosistent, i did like 5-10 5min fight so see, so maybe rng but this seems way lower than 15% proc
nova nexus
rng is going to rng
wind furnace
Whats with 2 legendarys?
demi mentioned it, its in the pins
nova nexus
set looks like it can high roll or no roll depending on luck.
midnight goblet
i mean this is painful
wind furnace
was having lunch, i will do some 1 legendary sims with 2p/4p in a minute.
need to check the 4p -> 2p proc again as i am unsure if it always refreshes fully
nova nexus
i mean this is painful
this has been expressed as a concern even before the fixes. so we understand
mossy carbon
i mean this is painful
It's an RNG set, the nerfs made it feel more rng even though the potential variance remains close to the same or less. Venthyr is more RNG than Kyrian
nova nexus
if rng isn’t you’re thing, right now I’d suggest investigating the other two specs
wind furnace
expected, we discussed this in here already quite often
lowering any proc change means you have higher swings
nova nexus
idk if the high will feel high enough to offset lows (rerolling buffs comes to mind, but those I don’t think we’re as much variance. could be wrong on that)
nova nexus
over 80 now?
wind furnace
e.g. i did hit the dummy for a minute now
and got some 4p procs, given that i hit the 5 target dummy it means 5 times the chance to get a shb proc
yet i didn't get 1 shb proc from 2p
wind furnace
i just hit the dummy for 5 minutes with storm->evi
so a finisher every 2nd gcd, if you proc 4p 2 finisher in a row
i got 21 procs during it
so ~160-170 finisher -> 21 procs
i had 2 times a phase of ~40 secs to 1 minute with 0 procs
also had 4 procs back to back
expected value would be 28 procs, so i was unlucky
for the 2p, it seems to be somewhat reliable to expect a proc every 2nd dance instead of every dance
worse case for me was 3 dances, but it was also somewhat biased because a 4p proc would hit 3 targets
(what means higher chance to proc 2p)
steel meadow
there is no good single target dummy right
wind furnace
there is, but i didn't fly to og
nova nexus
portal?
wind furnace
ye, i was just testing the frequency of proc, not a in detail analysis so i guess the dummy was fine
steel meadow
og dummies works as intended?
wind furnace
yes
og dummy or dummies in your order hall are the ones you want to use.
Others can be and probably are buggy
steel meadow
ok ty
why the fuck turnip is bugged even 
wind furnace
portal?
i just felt like testing a bit to get a bit of a feel for what to expect
i will need to re-evaluate the apl conditions for it and potentially think of some improvements,
having a rough idea of what to expect proc wise is helpful usually
but lets first look into doing some 2p/4p 1 legendary simulations
nova nexus
oh no doubt. i was just confused by the flying comment.
wind furnace
na, was just me being to lazy to take portal and fly to the dummy in og
mellow urchin
ok ty
why the fuck turnip is bugged even <:notlikethis:867819582256185375>
the dummie in the hunter part of orgrimmar is the best one
wind furnace
i like the one on top of the wall
mellow urchin
you wont be cleaving on nearby dummies and it doesnt lose hp
wind furnace
2p/4p + 1 legendary with only the best 2 legendary powers fine?
or should i include finality too
mellow urchin
include all of them or?
nova nexus
i’d like to see all of them to be honest.
mellow urchin
there might be shifts in power after the nerfs, who knows
nova nexus
no assumptions with data
wind furnace
can do that too, but i don't assume that any of them beat the covenant specific one or akaari
but alright, lets see if i am wrong with that thesis
nova nexus
maybe something shifts and we further investigate.
what else are we going to do?
hehe
mellow urchin
akaari functionality isnt updated
wind furnace
akaari probably works diffrent in reality so hard to say
but i think i stated this earlier in the discussion, a big part of akaaris strengh is in PV, and pv interaction hasn't changed to my knowlage
Single Legendary Power.
Necrolord 4p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uZT2Zofhoqn6KbkhHFWNoQ
Necrolord 2p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6EinDPwB5N7kDsxFu1Txcs
deathspike is spicy:
midnight goblet
in PV ?
nova nexus
perforated veins conduit
midnight goblet
Thanks
wind furnace
akaaris does proc the conduit in 9.2, this makes both the conduit and the legendary a powerful combination
nova nexus
@wind furnace i’d actually be curious to see the dps variance individually between akaari and finally
midnight goblet
i can of sleep on the dummy so there is a 9min fight (no relevant) but i didn't get much more 4P proc with ER. Don't know if i'm unlucky or jsut a garbage
wind furnace
Single Legendary Power.
Night Fae 4p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iQULA4K7E6vq1yN4pP2UsL
Night Fae 2p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/srMf1pz4UUmAjxFMt5RM4M
wind furnace
<@194804407706189824> i’d actually be curious to see the dps variance individual...
for what covenant, so i can open the report and post
midnight goblet
Ad i tried on dummy in hunter part so no sylv proc (mine are 246 anyway)
wind furnace
letme quick do venthyr/kyrian
nova nexus
whatever the top two end up being
wind furnace
akaari does seem to be quite a bit ahead of TO now
even without 4p
was iirc before only with 4p
mellow urchin
i can of sleep on the dummy so there is a 9min fight (no relevant) but i didn't ...
the 4p proc is baked into shadowstrike casts now
you cant look at that and know how many procs you got
what ur seeing as hits is WM
midnight goblet
yes i know :
Or am i reading it wrong ?
oh okay
i'm just seeing WM proc here
Thanks
mellow urchin
the 208 is both main strikes and 4p strikes
mellow urchin
is quite low
steel meadow
4p procs counts as 'casts' now?
mellow urchin
yes
steel meadow
weird
mellow urchin
its hard to tell
which is a proc and not
even in logs
you have to go into events and see shadowstrikes that happened after a finisher
wind furnace
Single Legendary Power.
Venthyr 4p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5KffqnY4oNy47QvJrQ92kx
Venthyr 2p: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pG2XyNF83Z6HTx7fcY1bzn
Single Legendary Power.
Kyrian 4p:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4XLNX4uf3HC4WR9hye1aSS
KYrian 2p:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aqTyWWNmr2CvijpNim7UjP
so, does seem like its as expected between the covenant legendary and akaaris for all of them
mellow urchin
i think we can say that akaari > any other legendary
lunar fractal
At least it won't just be a passive buff from finality
quartz idol
are the akaari changes intentional or just a side effect of something
nova nexus
fuu then the variance for venthy and kyrian with akaari
mellow urchin
well its a side effect of making PV stack with procs
quartz idol
no, I meant the less casts/procs or whatever it was
mellow urchin
and i guess that since akaari can now WM on its own, its also giving double procs sometimes
mellow urchin
no, I meant the less casts/procs or whatever it was
intentional
i mean its the fix they had
for making akaari work on the 4p
quartz idol
what is it exactly
mellow urchin
we dont know
might be an akaari ICD
they definitely changed so it can WM
previously akaari would just proc after a WM shadowstrike
now it doesnt, but instead it can WM itself
which means more rng
i guess
lunar fractal
What's the variance after the nerf compared to before?
quartz idol
hm, doesn't taht make it the same then
mellow urchin
well maybe in sim
but in how you play it
before if you got a WM shadowstrike
you just got another akaari proc
now akaari has to also proc WM to give that benefit
so it has to roll 15% twice
instead of just once
if that makes sense
quartz idol
maybe I am not understanding it correctly, as I understand it its exactly the same
so before you get shadowstrike->WM->akkari proc
now its shadowstrike->akkari->WM akaari
since shadowstrike=akkari casts
its just gonna be delayed right?
mellow urchin
well no
the difference is strike -> WM - Akaari was the old one ye, every time
you'd always get akaari on that WM strike
Now if strike WMs, you dont get the extra akaari proc
instead akaari has its own 15% chance to proc wm
I dont see how its the same
since if the first strike WMd you already got that benefit, you didnt have to get another WM on the akaari
basically, before this change, akaari hits would always match the shadowstrike hits and it doesnt anymore
quartz idol
so before you get strike-akkari, and if that one procs you get strike-wm-akaari-akaari
is that correct?
quartz idol
and now its strike-akaari-(possibly wm akaari) and strike-wm-akaari-(possible wm akaari)
mellow urchin
wm doesnt do anything to akaari anymore
thats all there is to it
cus akaari wms itself
and idk if it always did
but somethings changed at least
i do remember that akaari used to WM during beta
but it was basically just another shadowstrike back then
quartz idol
ok so its just more rng now at the end it 'should' be the same casts on average
mellow urchin
in a sim it should ye
i also think some hits are being devoured
like koji has talked about
if you get too many procs from the 4p and regular strikes
you lose akaari hits
cus there seems to be some icd on the hit
that i dont understand
one example is from a dummy session last night
i had more akaari casts than hits
which is weird as shit
wind furnace
i think we can say that akaari > any other legendary
it wouldn't be this much ahead if the pv interaction was removed
quartz idol
yea, I guess it counts the cast whenever it happens and then if its off the icd then it counts a hit as well
wind furnace
are the akaari changes intentional or just a side effect of something
it was a side effect of changing the spell data
mellow urchin
it wouldn't be this much ahead if the pv interaction was removed
yea well kyrian wouldnt be this far ahead if RC was removed
wind furnace
tbh because we can
lets just replace sylvanas dagegrs and see how close they are with 1 lego 4p
quartz idol
it was a side effect of changing the spell data
ok, so is it considered a bug then or no?
wind furnace
hard to say, akaaris did work without this interactions for one xpac and 2/3 of shadowlands
mellow urchin
either way could be a bug
wind furnace
its up to everyone to decide if a change in behavior should be ladled as bug or not
mellow urchin
could have been a bug that it didnt work like this
wind furnace
i am happy with it working as it adds some gamplay elements with pv stacks
mellow urchin
yea i dont see a point
in calling it a bug
when its perfectly reasonable that PV works on WM
and other procs
wind furnace
i also would refer to intended/expected or unintended instead of bug
quartz idol
its up to everyone to decide if a change in behavior should be ladled as bug or ...
thats the thing since the change in behaviour is not documented as such its hard to tell if its intentional or not
wind furnace
a bug can be kept as intended behavior if its liked.
mellow urchin
all they really did was add "can proc from procs" to PV and voila, it works on akaari cus its technically a shadowstrike
it was a side effect of fixing PV interaction with the 4p and it also fixed PV interaction with WM procs
nova nexus
thats the thing since the change in behaviour is not documented as such its hard...
not everything is documented and scari seems to like players exploring items and abilities
wind furnace
i can see arguments for both intentional or unintentional
i think its a blurred line, you can't reliably say one or the other
mellow urchin
in the end, we take our new PV interaction and dont make a fuss about it, easy as that
quartz idol
not everything is documented and scari seems to like players exploring items and...
yea, I know its just that there is no way of distinguishing between bug and intentional when its not documented
nova nexus
it is what it is
wind furnace
i think shari did also mention this yesterday, that some interactions might not be consistent but make sense
mellow urchin
the notes would be super long if they had to put down every single change in it, we probably dont see half of it
nova nexus
could be fdk that had killing machine bugged for seemingly ever with DW
quartz idol
cuz one part seems intentional and one doesn't, like akaari proccing wm looks intentional, but wm not proccing it seems like a bug
mellow urchin
its to avoid the infinite loop
that they talked about
and akaari is already devouring its own procs, so i doubt it would make a big difference if it did work on WM
quartz idol
well, they can fix that infinite loop in different ways, its not necessary to have infinite loop that way
its possible to distinguish between akaari wm and shadowstrike wm
nova nexus
and that’s for them to decide on which route they went
midnight goblet
does anyone have a WA to track PV ?
quartz idol
they can do whatever yea, its just a confirmation would help
mellow urchin
does anyone have a WA to track PV ?
makeshift one
midnight goblet
having to play with Pv and backstab during dance will be so weird
mellow urchin
if the PV gameplay stays i am sure there will be better ones out there
wind furnace
withour sylvanas dagger, 4p + single legendary:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uhdcUYqsmDSA4YPiq78YHs
withour sylvanas dagger, 2p + single legendary:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xhprBcBN1XWc4x4a9KRcu4
oh, i didn't specify the itemlevel of the dagger so it went to 233, so a bit lower baseline
2p only, with 252 daggers:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/itEYn3knMPpkp7ySc8id9P
4p, with 252 daggers:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Y28s8dMtWPyqN96XnonAF
kyrian with 2x 252 daggers: 11.4k dps
kyrian with 2x sylvanas: 12,5k dps
diffrence between the two 1,1k dps
wind furnace
1% diffrence isn't that big
shut valve
1.6 and 1.4
wind furnace
it is still in a area that seems fine
shut valve
And i believe kyrian gains more from 2nd leggo
mellow urchin
ill eat a sock if we play 252 daggers on 9.2 release, even if daggers are nerfed
wind furnace
point wanted to just have a about equal stat dager
shut valve
I think the sim is targeting ppl who don't have mythic sylv dagger
mellow urchin
and i guess they dont have normal or heroic either then
wind furnace
i need to double check apl improvements too, to see if they still hold
*true
but looking at sim numbers i am fairly confident that they do
wind furnace
ill eat a sock if we play 252 daggers on 9.2 release, even if daggers are nerfed
i don't think we would drop the daggers unless the effect gets dissabled
nova nexus
and i guess they dont have normal or heroic either then
hi
mellow urchin
scath you should actually just play assa
sub seemingly dogwater trash without daggers
nova nexus
i am on slyv
wind furnace
252 is the itemlevel from normal of the new raid, so it more or less just compares to that
wind furnace
i mean assassination also benefits from daggers
nova nexus
not nearly as much
mellow urchin
assa probably swapping out a dagger in heroic week of new raid
they will ramp harder with new gear cus of these daggers
nova nexus
i should run heroic again this week. i really don’t want to
nova nexus
what ilvl daggers
nova nexus
i see
crisp lichen
idk u guys still talking sin vs sub
the true overlord is here since yday
outlaw stonks guys
coarse kettle
pls no
nova nexus
let sv have the melee
coarse kettle
possibly less rng, maybe more burst as pirate.
ok im down with less rng
nova nexus
or everyone just defaults back to assa for uptime memes
wind furnace
@mellow urchin heroic is suefficient to replace it, but i assume offhand might take till mythic
mellow urchin
dagger is gonna get nerfed anyway, too many bozos asking for it
nova nexus
and you still need a dagger for outlaw.
don’t nerf it just up the drop rate or let me buy it already. lol
feral schooner
dagger is gonna get nerfed anyway, too many bozos asking for it
But then our dps is bad
mellow urchin
you were crying about dagger nerfs just 1-2 weeks ago
mapko
dont start this shit
wind furnace
dagger is gonna get nerfed anyway, too many bozos asking for it
not rly our decision, but it is a question that gets asked a lot
coarse kettle
its about lore guys
crisp lichen
you were crying about dagger nerfs just 1-2 weeks ago
pls nerf dagger I wanna use next tiers dagger
lost mulch
^
mellow urchin
"me want 285 dagger, me dont have eon 259 dagger after 9 months of raid, but me will definitely have 285 dagger, for sure this time"
crisp lichen
"me want 285 dagger, me dont have eon 259 dagger after 9 months of raid, but me ...
FO SHO BRO
wind furnace
you were crying about dagger nerfs just 1-2 weeks ago
i don't mind the dagger being this powerful, it makes sense lore wise
mellow urchin
fuck hunters
wind furnace
i don't rly ask for a nerf, just objectively state how powerful the item is when people ask if it will get nerfed
mellow urchin
i know you dont fuu, but there are plenty of ppl that want the daggers nerfed
clear zephyr
Extended patches lower brain cells
mellow urchin
cus they REALLY rEALLY want to use 278 dagger cus ITS COOL and has a nice ilvl number and name and ye just cool man
nova nexus
I would like to request a redistribution of power from EoN to the rogue itself.
mellow urchin
anything else you want while ur in dreamland
wind furnace
btw. i did sim it shortly
feral schooner
you were crying about dagger nerfs just 1-2 weeks ago
True so Nerf it
nova nexus
a burrito. i’m fucking starving.
wind furnace
you won't replace a mythic eon till mythic in offhand even on assassination
wind furnace
ye, its a issue of the power level of the slot tbh
mellow urchin
I got now 259 though so no nerf now pls 😆
actual clown
mellow urchin
just play another class
cus you will play another class if the daggers gets nerfed hard
cus the spec will suck ass
wind furnace
Single Legenadary sims for 2p/4p:
Kyrian: #916284169057878037 message
Venthyr: #916284169057878037 message
Night Fae: #916284169057878037 message
Necrolord: #916284169057878037 message
feral schooner
cus the spec will suck ass
Nah I'll play sin then
wind furnace
i am unsure how high other classes sim atm
mellow urchin
also just stop replying, i am not getting into this conversation again
wind furnace
us beeing at 13k seems quite good (with double legendary)
mellow urchin
yea its good if you can sustain perfectly average rng on both ur set pieces
wind furnace
somewhat funny tbh
wind furnace
kyrian 9.1.5 -> 12.7k
kyrian 9.2 -> 13.3k
so the damage gain from 2 legendary + 4p is not significant higher than form domination
its still 600 dps
wind furnace
2nd legendary + tier set would be only at around 13k if the akaari interaction wasn't introduced
nova nexus
3L in 9.2.5
nova nexus
the stronger you end an expansion, the worse it feels in the new one
pliant minnow
hitting 118 or w/e it was in BFA was ROUGH
wind furnace
the stronger you end an expansion, the worse it feels in the new one
i don't mind that the numbers go down, if the gameplay gets better
mellow urchin
i don't mind that the numbers go down, if the gameplay gets better
hint: it isnt
wind furnace
one thing with 9.2 that def. will make a lot of people angry is the simple fact that damage numbers will go down
wind furnace
and its not a big deal, but i can see a potential conflict if players suddenly see a 20% worse output
wind furnace
hint: it isnt
maybe we can inpact decisions
mellow urchin
wdym
nova nexus
think we'd need a mob hit at this point to impact that decision
wind furnace
blizz is a lot more communicative
mellow urchin
we certainly can not
wind furnace
so maybe they look at suggestions for 10.0
mellow urchin
we have told our set dev multiple times that the RNG isnt what sub is about
wind furnace
"what would players of X spec/class like to see change"
mellow urchin
but we are clearly not the target demographic for these sets
there are some hidden sub casuals that really love rng
nova nexus
the jpc stream followers
mellow urchin
the outlaw gamers
wind furnace
i think there was just a conflict in interest and thats unavoidable
because the initial bluepost stated that they like the tier set
mellow urchin
they thought they could escape the rng when they went to play sub in m+, little did they know
wind furnace
so there was a inherent bias from how the bonus was seen, and discord is only a small minority
mellow urchin
i mean i think the set is probably more fun for aoe than it is for st
wind furnace
e.g. if you watched the 9.2 video with limit max
mellow urchin
and since sub has been the minigame spec since 9.1
maybe we will continue to be the minigame spec
wind furnace
he did put the tier set into the category labeling it:
"fun and exciting gameplay wise"
"powerful in impact"
nova nexus
outlaw in ST, sub in M+ 
i think jpc just likes his zoomer random proc to play around stuff no matter where it is
wind furnace
i am just saying, there is already a conflict within the community as the tier list in terms of design did put subtlety at the very top
wind furnace
yes
mellow urchin
its not the community
livid ferry
The gameplay is not good
mellow urchin
a guy who doesnt even play sub regularly
he only plays it for m+ and yes its not terrible for m+
wind furnace
but there is a bigger reach from the limit video than from discord
mellow urchin
well ofc
wind furnace
so if the consent in here is that the tier set is not well designed, it just is another one of the demographic
nova nexus
our community in an online presence in pve is 1 guy, maybe 2 and they are both more m+ focused. one is also off the rails with feels
livid ferry
Current set is actually just so unenjoyable to play it hurts
mellow urchin
but the guy literally designing the set is in this discord and has seen the complaints about rng
wind furnace
but only contributes a small part to every imput blizz gets
crisp lichen
who actually likes this set
mellow urchin
jpc
crisp lichen
gambling addicts do not count
livid ferry
Probably m+ rats
nova nexus
IT"S FUN & POWERFUL
crisp lichen
jpc also likes outlaw so there u go
mellow urchin
yea
nova nexus
so turn sub into outlaw. kekw
livid ferry
Idk its legitimately just not fun, even when you high roll its just not fun
mellow urchin
the set has this corrupting feeling to it
mellow urchin
the more i play it, the less i like it, kinda deal
nova nexus
can't wait for another rework of sub in 10.0
livid ferry
No its assa’s turn in 10.0
wind furnace
i know people have a blanket idea of 'all rng bad' (i worked on league, lol) but there are kits even in WoW where it's very useful as both a balancing lever and a skill testing tool
there is also this statement
mellow urchin
yea i know
and no not all rng is bad
but having an entire tier set be just rng
is bad
wind furnace
tbh i expected more outrage about the tier set changes
nova nexus
no one cares about rogues lol
wind furnace
because it is now more noticable rng dependent
nova nexus
majority of influencers have moved on
mellow urchin
at this point being a bit more rng doesnt matter
wind furnace
i did some testing earlier on dummy, and i know dummy does not rly matter a lot
but esp. the 2p seemed a lot less reliable
nova nexus
skill is how quickly you can react to 5 different things happening.
down some redbulls and go
wind furnace
a change from "happens about once per dance"
to "happens about once evry 2nd dance"
mellow urchin
i mean the spec is locked to 1 sec gcd
wind furnace
is a noticable one
mellow urchin
there is only so much reaction you can do
livid ferry
Skill is how many times you can proc a 15% chance 
wind furnace
and 4p... i am unsure
livid ferry
But yea i mean
wind furnace
i did 5 minute testing with strorm-evi spam on dummy
wind furnace
and i had 2 times a long phase of 40 secs to a minute that had no procs
just to emphasize this, this is a finisher every 2nd gcd
round orbit
could it be that theres some tech that lowers the chance to proc 4p if you use aoe finisher, etc
nova nexus
boss goes immune and rng hi rolls
wind furnace
so a lot more chances to proc the set bonus that in pure st
if you can have 1 minute with no proc in mass aoe
it means you can have esp. in raids a very low amount of procs overall
nova nexus
damnit I didnt want to chose depression today
wind furnace
short fights like in farm will depend a lot on your procs in terms of parsing
wind furnace
i think it won't be as problematic early on
because you #1 don't have the 4p straight up
livid ferry
i tested on dummy for a while and got lots of SB procs but the resets were scarce
wind furnace
and #2 fight leghs are long enough to make it aggregate better
nova nexus
This set is just terrible
This set is just terrible fun and powerful 🧠
wind furnace
tbh, the 2p did not proc on 4p a lot
livid ferry
At least I can play around that
wind furnace
but thats also because the 2p proc chance is 15%
clear zephyr
Did we figure out push’s questions about akaari casts with tier set?
wind furnace
needs more testing
nova nexus
@livid ferry just go DH it'll be ok
livid ferry
Nah ill just go another video game or something
Funniest thing is that even with how awful this set is we still are probably on the radar for more nerfs cause high sim number 💀
nova nexus
it's still an outlier in value
wind furnace
alright, time to double check tier set conditions
nova nexus
@mellow urchin when should I try to dump my Korthite Crystals. I require your financial expertise as top guild
mellow urchin
i have no clue
livid ferry
Heres a good tier set condition
Tier.equipped=delete.character
as someone whos never played sub before it doesn't feel terrible
but prolly cause the base spec is just fun
Well if you are transitioning out of assa then chewing styrofoam will seem fun
i come from feral into assa into sub
xd
Yea
Makes sense
nova nexus
its new and shiny and has buttons
wind furnace
👍 no change
nova nexus
what did you do?
wind furnace
look at our 3 target cleave
livid ferry
Who cares
wind furnace
it seems the condition still holds
what is great
lets see for other tier conditions
alright, everything seems to still hold true 
livid ferry
wind furnace
gain from more agressive shadow dancing on kyrian is lower now, but still a slight gain
unsure if ppl will adopt that gameplay change
barren forge
So the 4 set makes are low target cleave not magikarp lvl?
wind furnace
3 target cleave is quite a bit better due to the tier set
nova nexus
we lost our souls for 3T cleave got it
livid ferry
Aka sub cleave
proper cliff
Its still a piece of shit
what if you put gold plated corn in it
barren forge
Eat at a Mexican restaurant instead of Taco Bell?
livid ferry
Our 3t is fucking garbage
proper cliff
but you can rupture all 3 
livid ferry
Rather rupture myself with this tier
barren forge
Kinda Glass half empty arentcha
nova nexus
@proper cliff we'd like to file a lawsuit against blizzard for this unwanted and unwarranted abuse towards subtlety rogue players that have been playing the spec for longer than 1 tier.
proper cliff
Rather rupture myself with this tier
god I've never related so much to a sentence in my life
barren forge
🤣
livid ferry
How can i be glass half full when the tier set is just not good
wind furnace
3 target cleave does not look terrible
proper cliff
<@!192059095279337473> we'd like to file a lawsuit against blizzard for this unw...
Ion was a DC lawyer bro, you might wanna shoot your shot at a better lawyer than me
nova nexus
we can get Rudy when we can afford him
barren forge
How can i be glass half full when the tier set is just not good
Yeah I get that
livid ferry
I was optimistic maybe a month and half ago
proper cliff
we can get Rudy when we can afford him
only if we have the press conference at the four seasons landscaping
livid ferry
Maybe 4 pc gets reworked maybeee
wind furnace
but thats because we can stick with using strike on 3 targets and the shb uptime and fw procs on secondary targets will make it overall more competitive
livid ferry
nova nexus
Glass is only half full when the water randomly appears, or the glass randomly appears
proper cliff
you know what would be a cool feature in 9.2?
if premeditation wasn't a piece of shit talent that worked half the time
nova nexus
DFA?
barren forge
As long as we aren’t dog in other aspects I’m happy.
livid ferry
wind furnace
premed is only buggy in outdoor content iirc
nova nexus
you know what would be a cool feature in 9.2?
a non degenerate tier set?
proper cliff
premed is only buggy in outdoor content iirc
dungeons too for me at least
barren forge
Make sec tech apply a shadow dot?
wind furnace
weird
wind furnace
i mean, it would be somewhat questionable if people use it in high end m+
if it was buggy
proper cliff
afaik most people switched to WM in high m+
livid ferry
Make sec tech apply a shadow dot?
Nah we should just have a shadow dmg garrote thats only usable in dance as baselline
Except much shorter duration
So its a burst dot
And make shadow dance uptime lower lol
wind furnace
afaik most people switched to WM in high m+
if they haven't they will in 9.2
barren forge
Wouldn’t the easier thing be replace rupture with the bfa spell nightbane or whatever it was and make black powder spread it?
livid ferry
Idk sounds like it would just result in the same brain damaged aoe gameplay that exists now
barren forge
You would only need to spread it once. Then funnel party
livid ferry
Idk i’d like if shadow dance drastically altered what you do, not just insert shadowstrike in where backstab is
barren forge
Fantasy wise, shadow strike should be shadow dmg
livid ferry
Ye
wind furnace
the design of black powder is why high target aoe becomes somewhat boring
livid ferry
Ye spells trash
wind furnace
you basically would need to remove BP and introduce a diffrent spell to get rid of it
livid ferry
Yes
barren forge
DFA!
wind furnace
i also don't think it is all bad, i think the freedom of movement during aoe spam is a nice thing
livid ferry
Sub doesn’t need an aoe spam button its just bad gameplay
wind furnace
the change i still can't rly say was nice is still the shadow dance duration/stack change
wind furnace
it makes the spec more punishing and eliminates the balance between es/dark
livid ferry
Also made MoS a lot less impactful
wind furnace
it solves one single issue
livid ferry
Bad change
wind furnace
and this is to not press shadow dane 2 times during dance
(well you still do that tho)
Tbh, i think i am too critical with changes like this, it just seemed to me like a not logical change and this opinion hasn't changed since beta
its fair to consider other opinions, and people who come to the spec do not mind it or like the long dance
nova nexus
they figured the spec isn’t played better change it. the spec wasn’t played because it was under-tuned and needed some minor talent adjustments.
proper cliff
Sub doesn’t need an aoe spam button its just bad gameplay
they should've just buffed sectech
wind furnace
what i critique is change that move away from a functional iteration that is precived well
nova nexus
instead we got the shit we have now
wind furnace
and people can say i think to much about the past, but signature abilities like dfa did bring people joy and the short cooldown cycle gameplay seemed nice
nova nexus
as well as some guide writers liking the extended dance approach … while also playing NF
how or what gets communicated who knows.
first time we’ve seen a dev talk to us
in how long?
livid ferry
they should've just buffed sectech
Just give sub touch of the magi its all you need to do
Funnel into totm target, big aoe explosion
Woooo im having so much fun
wind furnace
as well as some guide writers liking the extended dance approach … while also pl...
wdym?
nova nexus
mystler enjoyed the long dance. wasn’t critical of it. no idea how much info actually goes back to devs off those publishings
wind furnace
tbh i think giving Secret a FW interaction would already fix it somewhat
i mean its opinion, as i stated above
i dislike it for certain reasons, i am not hesitant to state when asked
mossy carbon
and people can say i think to much about the past, but signature abilities like ...
I loved DFA but it was frustrating to have so much tied up in that, you did nothing outside your super short dances
wind furnace
only think i remember was that mystler was less critical about the dance change than me
but that does not mean he likes/dislikes it
livid ferry
But it doesn’t matter how much rogue complains
nova nexus
would like to see it more competitive was typically it. he also rand the double ring setup in legion
wind furnace
i think dark/es is hard to balance tho
wind furnace
so even without the change, its possible that we would see a one or enother split
livid ferry
You would
wind furnace
my initial thought for 9.2 would be akaaris + pv would heavily favour ES over Dark
nova nexus
people only gave a shit about sub when lol broken as fuck with akaari
wind furnace
thats not true
the perception that subtlety was overpowered did stay on release for a while
nova nexus
this place was overrun when that was a thing
wind furnace
you saw most players play subtlety for the first weeks
and then shift to outlaw, as it did sim higher due to us fixing the cto interactions
nova nexus
and oh look spec is shit without it as others get buffed.
livid ferry
But ye scath mystler could have typed a manifesto and it wouldn’t have mattered
wind furnace
and once assassination was buffed to beat both sub/outlaw, people went assassination
empty pulsar
Im new to sub and relatively new to rogue in general. Is there an index for acronyms? Or can someone just lmk what PV is
wind furnace
it is well documented on wcl, if you did follow the amount of parses
livid ferry
We bitch about the tier set in here daily and the person who made them reads it and still sticks to his guns
Nothing we can do
nova nexus
But ye scath mystler could have typed a manifesto and it wouldn’t have mattered
I agree. Not blaming at all.
we have no one publicly vocal about the shit gameplay
wind furnace
Im new to sub and relatively new to rogue in general. Is there an index for acro...
i linked it in #subtlety, it probably misses xpac specific stuff like conduits
empty pulsar
Appreciate it, tyvm
mossy carbon
I mean he knows about the feedback from this discord, it is a tiny portion of the overall playerbase, the average player who doesn't know anything about the patch until it launches will see that tier gear and think "oh cool that looks fun", probably more than "symbols increases your damage by a further 5%" or whatever
Don't think the sky is falling that hard
wind furnace
for bfa to line out some important SL ones:
DD = deeper dagger (conduit)
PV = perforated vains (conduit)
SS = stiletto (conduit)
MA = Master assassin
RC = kyrian legendary
TO = night fae legendary
livid ferry
A world content do-er won’t care what tier set you give him
vestal geyser
I mean, I’m not super excited about the tier set, but there were definitely a lot of other ones that needed major reworking to even be playable. Ours is boring but not that bad compared to some others
livid ferry
Sugar coating awful gameplay with “well other people may like it” is crazy to me lmao
mossy carbon
I don't think other people will like it
nova nexus
maybe game design for classes / specs in 2022 is just make it OP and it’s great
livid ferry
Unless you are a dopamine fiend that gets off on pressing evis 6x in a row idk
crisp lichen
MY DOPAMINE ON XYMOX
mossy carbon
But whining that the devs don't listen and don't do anything and sub is the new outlaw is kind of pointless - not every tier set is going to be a hit with every part of the playerbase
livid ferry
What
mossy carbon
It's probably much better for m+ players for example
barren forge
Lol the sounds coming from the WA when the 4 set procs are gonna be hilarious
livid ferry
Bro the 4 pc could be changed to a deterministic effect and it would instantly be like 10x better
mossy carbon
Yeah I 100% agree
livid ferry
Accepting bad shit and just copeing is just weird
Defeatist mentality
Its not even gonna be fun in m+
Jpc loves to obsess about exact button usage every pack
Imagine 1 time you get nuts proc on some boss/pack
Then next time you do the key
You get dick
And you wipe
Sounds fun to me
livid ferry
“Sorry guys slot machine broke, run it back”
nova nexus
Gunslinger Tisu gonna show guy how to play outlaw
mossy carbon
I'm not accepting, I've said before in this channel that I don't like it and wish it was deterministic or that there was only 1 RNG bonus.
I like the base gameplay of kyrian sub a lot and I hope the tier set doesn't fuck with it too much. At least from hitting a dummy a bit it interferes a lot with the usual flow and it will take me a while to get used to it, but it's something different to play with and react to. The RNG sucks a lot, I agree, I don't play sub for that.