that line looks very sketch
#9.2 Feedback and Discussion
quartz idol
plucky storm
that looks like the old line to symbols into flag for the bug
quartz idol
which also kinda condraticts itself with buff.symbols_of_death.up
plucky storm
I don't see the issue right now maybe I'm misunderstanding
quartz idol
wait, does that want symbols to be on cooldown or not on cooldown
plucky storm
that line casts flag if you're in single target and the cooldown is available and you're not running shadow focus
or it casts flag if the symbols buff is up
both requiring 5+ cp
that second one is the symbols -> flag -> finish for the bug that we did
I don't think the line got changed, because the difference was so small
quartz idol
ye ok, I misunderstood the line, thought it does something else and contradicts itself
why is it delaying flag for so long then, kinda weird
plucky storm
why is it delaying flag for so long then, kinda weird
Cause the venth sub sim was run when obedience was a Paladin legendary
buoyant gyro
Can we just like
Use this spreadsheet to show devs and/or WCL to continue to prove that externals are absurdly degenerate
And so they nerf Kyrian Druid to the ground?
Because it's just fucked
nova nexus
just wait for the fae priest sheet
quartz idol
Cause the venth sub sim was run when obedience was a Paladin legendary
awesome đ
buoyant gyro
Like is there any reasonable argument that Kyrian Druid should bring this much extra DPS?
Like sure Venthyr and NF have been busted for personal DPS
nova nexus
druid bad. need to bring stuff
buoyant gyro
But just rolling up and being "herp de derp here's 14% DPS"
nova nexus
duh
nova nexus
I mean there should be some line of communication to bring it to someoneâs attention, no?
plucky storm
Key word should
Community outcry about externals has been loud
Blizz blue posted a response doubling down
buoyant gyro
Isn't it nice when the "simp" profile does almost as much or more damage than the Rogue profile there and is also contributing 1.5k DPS to the Rogue?
So the Druid is bringing 13.7k DPS?
đ¤Ł
Super balanced
quartz idol
But just rolling up and being "herp de derp here's 14% DPS"
well, blessing of summer also adds like 1.4k + dps to the paladin
and thats just one of the blessings
nova nexus
Key word should
perhaps you should have applied to the community council.
buoyant gyro
Blessing of Summer is at least attributed to the Paladin so it can be balanced more easily
plucky storm
perhaps you should have applied to the community council.
I did
buoyant gyro
Pure ginormous stat buffs like Kyrian Druid are fucked
buoyant gyro
I can't help but think the Kyrian Druid stat buff has like an extra fucking 0 on it or something đ
nova nexus
I havenât even bothered to check banner yet
quartz idol
I feel like nf pala is just as busted, if you give it to the right classes, just less noticeable because it all goes to the pala
(in terms of how much bonus you get from the covenant ability)
buoyant gyro
I feel like nf pala is just as busted, if you give it to the right classes, just...
I mean that's part of what allows it to balanced though right?
If Paladins were soaring at the top of the meters it would be obvious
Balance Druids "hiding" their damage by buffing someone with an absurd 8% stat buff is misleading
Also how are 3 stats "8%" and one is "150 Mastery Rating"
Those two are not even remotely comparable numbers
Kyrian Druid legendary was just feelcraft to the max đ
quartz idol
someone was saying it was because mastery has very different values to different classes and some are double dipping or something like that
but it does look weird yea
buoyant gyro
Sure but why not make all of them rating then?
quartz idol
no idea, plenty of weird interactions đ
nova nexus
just smoke and mirrors to drive theory crafters insane.
I know our RL hates dealing with all the external shit
quartz idol
looking at rogue values 150 mastery would actually be around 10% mastery, so in a way its better to give it on kyrian, but at the same time its not đ
nova nexus
but big daddy bliz knows best
buoyant gyro
looking at rogue values 150 mastery would actually be around 10% mastery, so in ...
150 Crit Rating is only like 4.2% crit
So the Mastery one is about half relative value to the others
Which means either Mastery is way underbudget or the others are way over budget
And I suspect more the latter tbh
quartz idol
I meant more like if it was 8% mastery, it would be worse
buoyant gyro
Well you can't give raw Mastery% you can only give base Mastery% which then gets converted by the class coefficient
So it would be different for everyone
Even if it worked
They just did it because it's confusing on the tooltip
Not because they can't
But the budgets are wildly different is my main point
plucky storm
I know our RL hates dealing with all the external shit
My raid lead throws his hands up every time he tries to make a wft group and says âmake whispyr do itâ
But that also means I always get wft
plucky storm
<@!167090536602140682> make group 5 w/ just you and the enhance
I tried that and the healers complained about their frames
nova nexus
My raid lead throws his hands up every time he tries to make a wft group and say...
our WFT group had a lock and boomie. I kindly suggested swapping them out for the UDK & WW
why I am asking about that instead of the WW and DK idk
plucky storm
So true king
winged fiber
i mean if they tune it based around 1 leggo
raid just becomes piss easy week 5
and overtime tier kicks in again
so it sucks for everyone lol
winged fiber
true
nova nexus
iâd rather not hard grind stupid rep
winged fiber
i'd rather play fun builds for prog
plucky storm
I mean Iâd rather they do this than arbitrarily nerf the raid every other week
nova nexus
doubt
plucky storm
Every rogue spec actually just unplayable trash year of the spear no lego no problem
nova nexus
5 more weeks of MfD whispyr 
winged fiber
is the fae 4p base include the covenant leggo @plucky storm?
plucky storm
is the fae 4p base include the covenant leggo <@!167090536602140682>?
Yes
winged fiber
do you know what the sims would be single leggo i'm assuming it'd be with dusk for sin and obedience for sub
nova nexus
iâm sure we will get a new sheet with week 4 sims
isnât kyrian already better for sub or did that change with the set
plucky storm
iâm sure we will get a new sheet with week 4 sims
plucky storm
Homie I put in so much time already simming for the 99% you think Iâll make a copy of my sheet for the 1% who canât cope with a single legendary
winged fiber
lol
plucky storm
I mean youâre probably right
nova nexus
plucky storm
And Iâll hate everyone for it
winged fiber
guess i'll do a bunch of single leggo sims
plucky storm
Cause itâll be like âoh I wonât have 4 piece can you sim without 4 piece?â
âOh but then what if Iâm only 260 and not 260.5â
Fuck off
nova nexus
whatâs going to be more annoying the asking from people or the just doing it and ignoring people
SIMS ARE RUINING THE GAME IâM JUST GOING TO LISTEN TO THE STREAMER WITH THE BLUE HAIR AND CAT EARS
plucky storm
I mean the more annoying part is the world 1xx raiders dmâing me the most nonsense bullshit cause they canât put 3 braincells together and need everything simmed within 2 dps
Same shit with 9.0
Wr 1xx people âuh but acjthcukally kyrian week 2 of progâ
And weâre like okay fine heres mythic week 1 sims
nova nexus
9.0 had all the demon hunters in the sub channel. WAY DIFFERENT
plucky storm
And then âwtfffffff jebaited theorycrafters tell us kyrian and now itâs fae omg so dumbbbbbâ
nova nexus
now weâre back to the dagger rogues trying to kill each other
winged fiber
lol
i mean you do have to sim extra shit if prog is shorter but
iuno about all the extra shit
xD
nova nexus
extra shit = simc profile. just full send the druid sim there and call it a day
plucky storm
Itâs just
Is this a bis profile
Why no mastery
Would X be better than Y for anduin
nova nexus
bis sims are so useless
nova nexus
hate that fucking stack page
plucky storm
They announced tuning 3 minutes ago are the sims updated
Legit got more questions about the numbers and why the numbers and how the numbers
Than i did actually getting asked for numbers in the first place
clear zephyr
Obedience
clear zephyr
Resounding Clarity
nova nexus
dashing
autumn jungle
Hey Whispyr how much does it sim to have a dagger in my ass during Anduin add phase on mythic and with survival still not fixed
autumn jungle
đ
winged fiber
you're so close
dunno why yall gotta be weird about this
obviously the 4 pc is going to affect some things im just talking about sims i'm go do
nova nexus
the answer is Dusk
winged fiber
yea i can obviously figure that one for sin
is why i said it like 30 mins ago
prob obedience for sub
cursive forge
đ
cursive forge
just look at the pins and fire up that brain of yours
I know it's winter in the northern hemis so you gotta use the choke if she's cold
nova nexus
prob obedience for sub
still dusk. sub dead
winged fiber
just look at the pins and fire up that brain of yours
first off who are you 2nd off no need to be a dick to strangers
cursive forge
you must be new here, that's all I am
winged fiber
fucking clowns man
cursive forge
Least I can read AND comprehend context
winged fiber
obviously not
because all i did was talk about how legos won't be out for weeks so i have to do some sims to find single legendary stuff for prog based on 0 tier set 2 pc and 4 pc
and you're talking shit
cursive forge
So why would current be dfifferent than live if you won't have 2x legos or tier sets?
cursive forge
you're a dense meatball
winged fiber
you're a rude clown
nova nexus
autumn jungle
@limpid lance we need an absolute extermination, this is not 9.2 discussion anymore xd
limpid lance
nova nexus
leave it to a yellow to ping you for no reason.
limpid lance
!mute @cursive forge 12h Dont be a prick to strangers on the internet.
autumn jungle
lol
buoyant gyro
@plucky storm can you find a way to sim BiS profiles for me but somehow magically transpose it via osmosis to my jank af gear set of Druid hand-me-downs and ilevel 200 Conduits? I feel like that would really help me get some Rank 1 parses.
I need to know all the permutations of what the BiS covenant is for every gear combination on the way between my current gear and BiS.
plucky storm
autumn jungle
Whispyr I pray your patience with us will pay off sometime in your life and you become mega rich and happy
plucky storm
I need to know all the permutations of what the BiS covenant is for every gear c...
what's the haste breakpoint for venth vs kyrian I feel like I have way too much haste because venthyr flag and kyrian auto haste proc cp dance cdr mastery soulbind
buoyant gyro
nova nexus
so i tried to sim the frost shards and the tier set (2P) and it tell me to play necrolord.
winged fiber
aren't shards disabled as soon as the patch drops
barren forge
disabled in Zerith Mortis i think
but if u go akaari helm, other 4 slots tier. only place u would use a shard would be boots. would you drop tier for shards in open world (outside of ZM) content?
plucky storm
no shot
I can see it for like blood set +2pc maybe for open world
like soloing elites
with the healing
but that seems really niche
barren forge
yeah unless ur going back to the maw or maybe torg to do stuff, seems pointless
or going back to farm Sylvie dagger
livid ferry
is obed fixed on ptr
plucky storm
yes
barren forge
this isnt a rogue question but lego belt on Enlightened vendor is an Epic item, bug im guessing? and does anyone know if 265 is the max ilvl of the belt we get from story or we will have to upgrade it? apologies for the non* rogue question but yall are more knowledgeable then any other disc channel
pliant minnow
rogue does have some pretty shmexy TCs
plucky storm
plucky storm
this isnt a rogue question but lego belt on Enlightened vendor is an Epic item, ...
that is a bug, I assume it goes higher than 265 but no clue how
probably new base items just like the new ranks to the normal legendaries
barren forge
i figured but i wouldnt be surpised if it was an epic from vendor and had to upgrade it to leggo lol
ty for reply
buoyant gyro
I mean at the end of the day the ilevel wonât really matter much. Even if itâs static itâll be BiS but might change what slot it goes in ideally.
We will just have to wait and see.
hoary zephyr
now i'm basically forced into venth sub
No Kyrian?
winged fiber
i wouldn't play kyrian if I was in for prog
unless the diff was substantial enough to warrant
but i worded my shit poorly earlier should've said more about combinations of covenant / soulbind / with 1 leggo and 0 tier 2 pc and 4 pc than just leggos
hoary zephyr
Well, Kyrian is definitely better
phial is good
and Kyrian is already outperforming Venthyr
winged fiber
by like 200-300 dps
hoary zephyr
Kyrian also doesnt need cds to manage
winged fiber
i'll sack that for not having to stare at my cp 24/7 lol
hoary zephyr
right but in prog, everything matters yeah?
like damage wise
since you are pushing
and also phial is pretty good
hoary zephyr
True true
winged fiber
and there's multiple bosses with cleave
hoary zephyr
ya then just play Sin
winged fiber
if it's good for the boss i'll play that too
hoary zephyr
also dont forget, you wont have your 4 set until first week of mythic
or acquire it*
winged fiber
if you're lucky
hoary zephyr
no, I mean mathematically
3/5 pieces comes from first 9 (anduin)
the rest come from last 3
winged fiber
oh yea it's not possible 1st week
hoary zephyr
and no, you cannot get it from vault.
I made
40 rogues
with 3/3 PvP and M+ slots
0 tier
well M+ slot didnt matter
winged fiber
if i'm in i'll be playing w/e is best at each point
winged fiber
with 0 tier 2 pc and 4 pc
hoary zephyr
ye
ripe halo
if i'm in i'll be playing w/e is best at each point
Best (not rogue)
winged fiber
rogue actually seems pretty decent
more tuning to come but hopefully we stay viable
negative utility go brrrrr
barren forge
and no, you cannot get it from vault.
It might not be on the loot table for vault yet
ripe halo
big chad class
So true bestie
hoary zephyr
It might not be on the loot table for vault yet
strange that pvp one is up
but ya
could be
wind furnace
+1 this
civic terrace
mellow urchin
anyone willing to create a new warcraftlogs?
civic terrace
mellow urchin
kihra has hubris and wont help the community
god emperor of logs
while he plays a weeb game
mellow urchin
well nothing
wind furnace
haha^^
worn prawn
Death to all externals
wind furnace
I don't mind externals, the externals just have a huge impact on performance
civic terrace
The concept is fine imo, its the way people are using them that grinds my gears
worn prawn
in a progression sense its kinda cool that you can enable certain classes to do some insane shit, but outside of that its just shit imo
wind furnace
i don't think it makes a lot of sense to complain about farm parses with external stacking tho
we have 8month or longer content cycles, so ofc people will do stuff that is fun to them
worn prawn
i think it kinda depends on what you like doing right
civic terrace
Why would it not make sense? Farm is when people perfect their craft
wind furnace
and wcl parsing is for many a valuable objective after progression
civic terrace
Exactly
wind furnace
externals are part of parsing
similar to other factors that would contribute to parses
civic terrace
So then when you throw a bunch of externals into the mix its skews the grid as not everyone will have access to the same level of degeneracy
wind furnace
parsing is never a equal enviroment
kill timers, strategies, etc... all impact your output
buoyant gyro
Issue for me is that while parsing has always has a guild element.. strategy, execution, whatever
civic terrace
Its a lot more equal without externals than with them, and I think thats as far as you have to look to come to the conclusion that maybe they shouldnt be there
buoyant gyro
It's still largely a "personal goal"
worn prawn
i never really had an issue with stuff like PI, but when you start throwing in KA and blessings, it quite literally becomes impossible to compete against it if you dont have the same access
buoyant gyro
When it becomes "who can get the most externals from raid members and parse despite playing like garbo"
it kinda loses the point
worn prawn
^
buoyant gyro
When you see top-10 parses that would barely be blue parses without externals it's really just sad
civic terrace
I want to reiterate.. i dont want externals gone. Externals are fine.
But they shouldnt get you a ranking log
wind furnace
I agree on that
but also external parsing is more a later tier game of playing the system
so there is a certain time frame in between you can go for personal goals
it just means that you have a time limit before external parses will take over
this is why i mentioned the content lenght
buoyant gyro
Like I have only ever had a minor problem parsing on tiers that require either a lot of external RNG (manapearl socket farming funzies)
And never gotten any tailored strats or anything over the years
Just prep and go into raid
Hope for decent execution, put up good numbers
And I've had many pink all-star tiers
I've never felt like I had to beg my raid members to help me out
That totally defeats the purpose to me
civic terrace
As it stands blessings and kindreds will be a thing quite early into the next tier
People have figured out the way to pandoras box and if the locks arent changed shits gonna be a mess
worn prawn
i did the exact same in CN, we didn't tailor strats for parsing, we just went in played well and hopefully ended up with good numbers
wind furnace
This tier was also rly extreme because of double rng in aquisition of domination and sylvanas daggers tho
a lower impact from externals or a separation in parses would solve a lot of issues i think
buoyant gyro
Like I was rank 74 in CN despite being Necrolord and with no externals, but Assassination wasn't getting many externals in a general sense. But this tier just has me totally not caring about parsing at all. It's just not worth toiling over when you see only 2 of the top 100 parses on Assassination being unbuffed
worn prawn
rather than nerfing them
wind furnace
but you would still run into similar issues like current tier if we have systems like domination/perls/sylvanas dagger
when there is just so much swing in output depending on when you get a powerful item
buoyant gyro
I mean shards were big but fairly deterministic in the long-term
Dagger is obviously annoying
But without externals this tier would have been fine in general
But you can't just compete with the fact that even 1 Kindred for Assassination is almost 12% DPS
Like that's just not something you can overcome
wind furnace
i would have argued that subtlety was a better spec for parsing
but subtlety has the sac bug now too
buoyant gyro
Sub had been moving towards heavier externals over the last month or so
plucky storm
Like that's just not something you can overcome
Consider playing better?
buoyant gyro
Back in Nov Sub was pretty light on externals then people starting going Venthyr for Kindred
buoyant gyro
Kyrian Sub players are still pretty light on externals
plucky storm
Kyrian Sub players are still pretty light on externals
Thatâs cause they all swap venth for the KA
buoyant gyro
yeah
buoyant gyro
Sub is at least closer to being fair than Assassination. Assassination is ridiculous
wind furnace
theo is a chad tho
plucky storm
He does nothing but give me terrible tea
buoyant gyro
But Sub has still really gotten swamped by heavy external parses over the holidays
wind furnace
if the impact of kindred stays similar, i could see it being a popular target
delicate osprey
tbh sub will be funny if kyrian hunters and nf palas come around even nf priest
so many externals ayayaya
wind furnace
But Sub has still really gotten swamped by heavy external parses over the holida...
but i think that is the effect i mentioned earlier. That after a certain period of time you will unavoidably have people play the system due to how long the tier is.
delicate osprey
kindred seems like a mage thing rn but assa seems good on nf too from what i've heard same as lock
and yea strap up for a 11+ month tier
buoyant gyro
Then again WCL hasn't even tried to do something like reverse the damage multipliers on Soulrender like they did with Psychus and Huntsman so I honestly am not even sure they seem to care about people finding parses to be compelling this tier
Their lack of activity this tier has been disappointing for sure
Usually this would be the time I would really be kicking up my effort level to parse before the end of the tier but with the current setup I really cba
mellow urchin
But Sub has still really gotten swamped by heavy external parses over the holida...
way earlier than that
sub was getting heavily simped earlier
i guess you just didnt look at it
the venthyr KA frost set build was months ago
worn prawn
i did it first reset in 9.1.5
buoyant gyro
I don't think the parse ratio was nearly as bad before the holidays, e.g. late Nov or whatever
worn prawn
yeah i do remember them
wind furnace
The amount of players doing it just successively gets higher with time
So while some start earlier, i would assume that the trend just gets worse over time in terms of externals
buoyant gyro
honestly don't think kihra cares at this point
I mean Kihra's stance is basically "I think externals will be gone in 10.0 so I don't really care"
Which is unfortunate tbh
wind furnace
having some few external parses will still not devalue your personal achievement/goals
robust lotus
I mean Kihra's stance is basically "I think externals will be gone in 10.0 so I ...
I expect only PI to remain next xpac
wind furnace
Its just when there are too many external parses that it feels bad
robust lotus
it's that there are too many externals
wind furnace
wft could also be seen as a external given how rare enh is
mellow urchin
unless kihra get some insight into externals i think its a very weird stance to have since blizzard doesnt seem to care
buoyant gyro
I mean personally I don't quite get it. Like on one hand Khira and Vel and some of the others on WCL keep saying stuff like "nobody cares, there's not a demand for an unbuffed leaderboard" then when people complain they say, "btw i am kind of exhausted talking about this tbh because i go through this over and over and newp eople show up in the discord and i don't really like going through it again and again"
So like... either there's lots of people who care or there aren't? Why they don't just make a distinct leaderboard is beyond me. They kinda imply it's due to cost/processing issues, but I can't help but feel it's just kinda a stubborn "I don't think we should fix Blizzard's problem" stance to a great degree.
It's not like an unbuffed ranking would be that hard. We already have rankings for boss damage or DPS class HPS rankings that nobody cares about that take up CPU time for the last forever years đ
Because everyone really needs to know that I currently have Rank 27 Rogue HPS on Eye of the Jailer right? đ¤Ł
wind furnace
don't devalue my 100%tile heal parses
buoyant gyro
When DPS specs have all-star points for Healing then we get told it's "impossible" to have an unbuffed leaderboard due to processing time, I kinda start being like "yeah, I don't think that's it"
robust lotus
When wowhead makes a post about external abuse you know it's a problem
Especially in said post they mention how degenerative it is to the actual raid experience
when the normies think it's an issue
then it's actually an issue
buoyant gyro
Pretty sure most of the Rogues out there would agree to sacrifice our HPS all-star points for an unbuffed leaderboard instead if we had a choice đ
buoyant gyro
They also pull out this BS stuff all the time too "also keep in mind people would start external buffing you to troll you and ruin your parse"
Which is like
The most strawman of strawmen
buoyant gyro
Hey uhh.. can you guys "troll" me by giving me 3 PIs and Kindred plz
robust lotus
It's going to be outrageous next tier
since kyrian is the
#1 covenant for boomkin
wind furnace
They also pull out this BS stuff all the time too "also keep in mind people woul...
ye damn, i feel so bad if i get externals
feels so bad to get kindred and then parse on the external leaderboard instead
when you still can easy cross compare
buoyant gyro
Also there's nobody in my raid group to cast externals on me anyway
Other than like 1 Disc Priest
Chances of being trolled are pretty low đ
And that dude can troll me out of parses whenever he wants to by gripping me to my death or just not healing me đ¤Ł
buoyant gyro
I also love how it's framed that managing how to view externals is a "social community problem"
wind furnace
just put down a music box next to your rogue close to pull
buoyant gyro
But someone in your own raid group trolling your parse
wind furnace
he def. will love it not starting in stealth
plucky storm
When DPS specs have all-star points for Healing then we get told it's "impossibl...
My damage done to bosses parse
That I compete with my holy priest on
Cause thatâs important apparently
buoyant gyro
Dude I just realized
I was Rank 3 all-star for HPS as Assassination in CN
I'm a god
wind furnace
plucky storm
Without the processing power I'd never know I had a Rank 1 HPS parse on SLG!
Thank kihra for this important information
plucky storm
âAccidentallyâ okay professional parse whore koji âlogmasterâ yama
No one gets rank 3 all star for hps as a dps on accident
Very very competitive leaderboard that one is
Along with the torghast speedrun leaderboards that Warcraftlogs said they would do
buoyant gyro
Hey I mean, I do find it moderately...amusing? lol
plucky storm
Did they do that
buoyant gyro
But yeah it just makes me lol at the processing power arguments for sure
This is the first time I've looked at my HPS All-Stars in like 5 years
buoyant gyro
đŽ
tawdry tree
plucky storm
Damn what a competitive leaderboard
robust lotus
thing is
sips is actually a really good druid player
why he's logging torghast I don't know
robust lotus
it really is just the cop out response
when the actuality is just laziness
I can understand it though, I wouldn't wanna do it either
main problem with all this borrowed power bollocks is that it may be gone in 8 months
buoyant gyro
when the actuality is just laziness
I mean I'm a little more likely to think it's stubbornness in a way đ
buoyant gyro
I honestly think a big part of this is "we shouldn't have to fix Blizzard's problem, Blizzard's response is BS"
Which I kinda get
But it still sucks for us players to be in the middle of it đ
robust lotus
warcraftlogs holds a ludicrous amount of weight when it comes to community perception
just as much as RWF streams/raiders
does just seem to be
not "well we shouldn't fix a problem blizzard don't care about", but "I main FFXIV now so there is less value to me in fixing it"
buoyant gyro
Maybe, although it was mentioned FFLogs traffic is way below WoW
mellow urchin
I honestly think a big part of this is "we shouldn't have to fix Blizzard's prob...
so the game should change its entire game design direction cus warcraftlogs "cant handle the process power"
buoyant gyro
So I presume WoW is still their "primary" product in that regard
buoyant gyro
so the game should change its entire game design direction cus warcraftlogs "can...
Well, they should change their game design direction because it's cringe but yeah I get your point đ
mellow urchin
kihra needs a reality check
robust lotus
It's not like Kihra is doing it for free either
robust lotus
Like
robust lotus
it's not like the ENTIRETY of tc for wow discords
mellow urchin
or something
robust lotus
where everyone is a volunteer
buoyant gyro
Can confirm, do not get paid đ
wind furnace
buoyant gyro
Unless you do guide writing there's no money in the TC side of things
I don't care at all, it's just a hobby for me but yeah
robust lotus
the cop out that he shouldn't be the one to fix blizzards mess
when it's literally his job to format blizzards mess
gleaming elbow
i mean fuck externals,just fix the cringe bugs and ppl will be happy blizz
buoyant gyro
Yeah I mean I don't really know to what extent the WCL staff realize it's basically undermining their "product"
mellow urchin
he should listen to a kendrick lamar song
"humble" its called
or something similar
buoyant gyro
It's not really isolated how many people are like "fuck parsing this tier"
and next tier ain't gonna be any better
robust lotus
next tier is going to be worse
delicate osprey
we did some speed kills for fun instead of trying to parse
delicate osprey
worldoflogs died for our sins
buoyant gyro
AIM was shut down wasn't it? đ
wind furnace
it was yes
mellow urchin
ye
buoyant gyro
Sad times
wind furnace
but also almost all messaging services got replaced by new ones
delicate osprey
that is why we riot and go nf next tier brutosaur form
wind furnace
and ironically the new ones are not that diffrent, just are often not related to the "for old people" feeling
mellow urchin
but kihra has been told its damaging his product in the end, but i dont think that touches him
"so what"
who will replace wcl
and its not like guilds can just not log stuff anymore
buoyant gyro
AskMrLogs
robust lotus
just go through kihra twitter
and see how much he posts about fixes to ff logs
and changes
then compare it to how much he talks about wcl
robust lotus
it's pretty clear where his focus lies, even if traffic is minor
wind furnace
AskMrLogs
XD
tbh wow is atm in a content draught, so it makes sense to focus on fflogs while its hyper active
delicate osprey
time to make our own ravenlogs with hookers and blackjack
buoyant gyro
time to make our own ravenlogs with hookers and blackjack
I mean tbh
Daily scraping of the rankings with the API, ignoring the ones with a buff count, and recalculating it wouldnât actually be very difficult đ
delicate osprey
lazy to do ui/ux
mellow urchin
do you think it has something to do with the chinese traffic
is he scared of losing
them
buoyant gyro
This is also another part of the BS on the processing power argument
Most intensive part is sorting in this type of operation
And the sorting of the two lists is identical
One is just a subset
Itâs definitely easier than a new independent metric
robust lotus
he's already got a box
that shows number of externals
filter to logs that don't fill that box
is it really that much processing power
mellow urchin
well the processing power argument is about creating a completely new ranking list
robust lotus
are wcl servers ran on w95 with 2mb of RAM
has the data from the damage list
can just make a second checkbox
under damage to bosses
that filters like I said above
am I just being the big dumb or is it that simplistic in idea
delicate osprey
not really hard to do just there is no will so there is no way
civic terrace
Imagine running a place like wlogs which is pretty much entirely player driven content and then not siding with the players when they ask for something
Looks like wowprogress attitude just in earlier stages tbh
mellow urchin
as i said, i think it might be cus of the chinese traffic
they love their externals
civic terrace
That'd be some take..
If you look at the logs the overwhelming majority is western audiences. To then not do something that is actively being asked for because of a silent minority.. 
mellow urchin
it was an argument dropped in there
kihra has like 90% simps
in his discord
that comes out of their caves whenever you talk about the external abuse
civic terrace
Typical
nova nexus
but kihra has been told its damaging his product in the end, but i dont think th...
so basically blizzardâs approach to borrowed powers/wow development
why invest time and resources without competition
mellow urchin
sure but i dont think the scale of separating simp logs is equal to complex game design ideas
nova nexus
same scale no, just zero reason to do it. where else they going to go
which sucks
iâm waiting for it to be a âpremiumâ feature or some shit
crimson dawn
I feel like that even if you would come up with a new, shiny and snappy solution it would be hard to get people to move. A buttload of guild still use TeamSpeak and most recruitment is still done using wowprogress while discord and Raider.io are around. (At least that is my experience with mostly german guilds).
civic terrace
Guilds use teamspeak because its better when its rural, not because they are holding on to it for old times sake
crimson dawn
I'm also hearing arguments like "the UI is better, Discord is clunky Electron Browser shit"
(which I don;t agree with)
civic terrace
It doesnt matter what people tell themselves their reason is, everyone is using discord and of those that don't most of them will have a good reason for doing so. The 1 in 10.000 that goes full 
is to be disregarded
Im sure theres guilds out there still using ventrilo as well even though thats pretty much objectively worse in every way
civic terrace
If someone else were to build a logs system, or heck maybe even just something that separates external logs from non external logs and would do it well, im quite sure it would gain some traction.
But you don't build a new car because the speedometer isnt working either. Wlogs is a good site, its speedometer is just broken.
robust lotus
you get a text/image/video sharing platform with voice
crimson dawn
Does someone remember when Wlogs first started out?
nova nexus
iâd be curious what the chinese traffic is on wcl vs eu/na and how much revenue itâs bringing in
civic terrace
Does someone remember when Wlogs first started out?
civic terrace
Im not sure how the hell it even monetizes at all tbh
crimson dawn
Huh its newer than I anticipated
mellow urchin
it came about when worldoflogs stopped
robust lotus
civic terrace
Ah I guess I just don't get ads because block
mellow urchin
robust lotus
mellow urchin
you can use this to take premiums
for ads
there is a lot of traffic to the website
civic terrace
Thats wild
nova nexus
adverts every refresh iâm assuming adds up
nova nexus
robust lotus
hope ur a physician
nova nexus
it was best buy last time. lol
civic terrace
Looks like its supposed to look like this tbh
nova nexus
mine is a mobile screen grab
elder cloak
Literally every time I click something I get a new fullscreen ad
nova nexus
their desktop app also runs ads non stop
quartz idol
adverts every refresh iâm assuming adds up
I don't think refreshing the site does anything for the adds, they are 'most of the time' for X amount of clicks (so somebody pays to have their add be shown to people until X amount of clicks happen on the add), so unless you are clicking on them it doesn't matter
nova nexus
Iâve been out of website marketing way too long already. idk if theyâre selling it based off traffic, clicks or whatnot. at least in NA they seem to have some major companies buying add space
robust lotus
oops
quartz idol
I know it was clicks mostly, but maybe it changed since competitors would hire people just to go and clicks on adds, basically eating up their clicks without actually buying anything on their websites
nova nexus
iâm assuming traffic is still a gatekeeper in what you can charge for revenue
but I also really donât care. theyâre clearly building net worth in some capacity
quartz idol
oh yea they can definitely use traffic as braganing
autumn jungle
Tbh, I've never once clicked on an ad and honestly don't know anyone who does, either their targeting mechanism is not doing its job or I am just that person every ad company hates
Although, I had AdBlock for years now and only seen ads on mobile/public computers so idk
civic terrace
I don't really buy many things without serious consideration first. When I walk into a store I don't really want to be approached by a salesrep either, because the odds are that I've already done my own extensive research and I know exactly what I want
autumn jungle
I don't really buy many things without serious consideration first. When I walk ...
This is the way
Especially in a consumeristic world
robust lotus
that's cap
robust lotus
cap = false
feral schooner
I played mythic plus with ven and akaa
robust lotus
there is absolutely zero chance that it's less damage
civic terrace
PTR is really hard to play for me too
Just make the best of it
Its kind of appalling we have no EU PTR in 2022 tbh, that said, the counterpart of it is that you can very easily play with NA players on the PTR.
That part is p cool
robust lotus
even chinese players have to play on NA servers
civic terrace
That must be garbo
robust lotus
qingxin still dong 180K DPS
autumn jungle
Well that's qingxin, he can do that even on a potato calculator
robust lotus
he could type his rotation and still do it
civic terrace
I don't know the guy nor the context but im sure its good
nova nexus
basically the player is typing out their casts on a potato carved to look like a calculator
robust lotus
5318008
nova nexus
exactly
feral schooner
Its kind of appalling we have no EU PTR in 2022 tbh, that said, the counterpart ...
yeah I guess its because of ping idk. Even building sometimes flag stacks was wo wired
nova nexus
our isp is having issues right now during prime time so my 16ms goes to 200-500ms for 2 hours of raid time. hard no playing sub then.
robust lotus
my internet hub is
delicate osprey
you can enjoy the exciting gameplay of assasination
grueling choices
every 5 seconds
robust lotus
0.4 miles away
nova nexus
Hooray for living within 20km of an internet hub
their box is in my back yard. CO is 10 miles away. itâs actually state wide. so until itâs fixed it is what it is
civic terrace
I meant AMS-IX, handles almost 11k TB/s
nova nexus
yeah idk what the actual problem is and it looks like they donât either. haha 
parts are also awful to get for any repairs right now
civic terrace
nova nexus
clearly red wire causing issues
nova nexus
saturday morning keys on NA end of tier⌠this is what alliance must feel like all the time.
barren forge
want to ruin someones day. send it to some extremely OCD
feral schooner
Idk kinda stupid to test with this ping for longer periods of time. Small indy company cant make EU und APAC servers
autumn jungle
"Soon" it's gonna be part of a big OS company so should see improvement
onyx glade
Guys, where i can find 2nd legs for sub and muti rogue for ptr?
civic terrace
Class set guy
honest prawn
Anyone not having the sub 2p not proccing on PTR? out of a 5 mins fight i got 0 uptime on shadowblades. Can't believe I am that unlucky
wind furnace
make sure to be on the correct target dummy, best is to use the one in og or your order hall
the effect does not work on old dummies
steel meadow
feral schooner
works in the raid
shell dragon
yo, are there sims for legendary combinations? ive been looking everywhere and cant find anything >.>
plucky storm
yo, are there sims for legendary combinations? ive been looking everywhere and c...
Check the pins in this very thread
left bramble
@wind furnace Im trying to find your dagger sims you did a couple of days ago - would it be possible to get them pinned?
And perhaps also a sim with HC EoN just to compare with the new daggers?
left bramble
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pdm2Z97SMyy1uwueEYZEBf>
cheers!
wind furnace
but i might do a bit better breakdown on it
but tl;dr: atm is that sylvanas in offhand will be bis and even a normal/heroic versions are sufficient to get used during the next tier in offhand
left bramble
Yepp, it would be intersting how a HC EoN would stand against the 278 OH
mellow urchin
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pdm2Z97SMyy1uwueEYZEBf>
remember we wont have 285 weapon
mellow urchin
nah those sims are with actual 285
wind furnace
remember we wont have 285 weapon
yes, makes the statement even more correct.
i think i did a lower itemlevel in in #subtlety too 2 days ago or so
but would be interesting to explore breakpoints more
feral schooner
yes, makes the statement even more correct.
Would you be so kind to do the sims with the hc version?
wind furnace
of sylvanas dagger?
feral schooner
Yes that we be awesome
I guess the HC version is even in offhand BiS obvs mythic slyvanas dagger would be better but would be nice to know
wind furnace
even normal is about on par
feral schooner
and what about the mainhand? Is a mainhand 246 EoN better then a mythic 278?
mellow urchin
not even 259 is
feral schooner
So mainhand we want the higher itemlevel right?
delicate osprey
yes
wind furnace
this was with a normal itemlevel sylvanas:
wind furnace
it just means that sylvanas dagger is rly strong
in offhand
because offhand slot is rather low in impact
left bramble
i know but just the feeling if you even got your hands on a HC one you are still stuck with it
wind furnace
only in offhand
but as shown in the sim
sylvanas in offhand on normal
would still be about on par with a mythic weapon of the new tier
wind furnace
^ the reason is that the damage of offhand gets the offhand penalty
mellow urchin
anyone remember the BFA daggers in OH early SL cus they could use OP weapon enchants
wind furnace
and barely any abilities on subtlety do consider offhand dps
this means offhand is mainly a stat slot
nova nexus
yahtzee ninjas rolling edge of night form up
wind furnace
also effects on weapons like the sylvanas one do not get a penalty
this means sylvanas dagger can due to that stay relevant next tier
in offhand
mellow urchin
just 1 dagger isnt that rng
nova nexus
on the plus side, if you have one itâs one less weapon to worry about farming.
mellow urchin
3.9 is only 0.3 more than current tier
nova nexus
did you run the EoN comparisons in dslice @wind furnace ?
wind furnace
i didn't but eon does lose value on multiple targets
robust lotus
delicate osprey
i still trust in the dagger with special effects may it save us
robust lotus
This is my values with just OH 246
I just copy pasted from the sims above and changed OH, which would be my gear exactly
nova nexus
just making sure iâve got the labels right, 265 gain using heroic eon over 272 offhand
wind furnace
you can just change the itemlevel of the eon in the input of the sim above
with ,ilevel=XXX at the end of the lines
nova nexus
This is my values with just OH 246
says 259 in report
robust lotus
yes, I have a 259/246
it makes sense that I'd use that 259 as OH with higher ilvl weapons
nova nexus
here I thought you were using the 246 OH for everything. for comparison sake.
robust lotus
Na I'd use what I'd actually use
neat dagger
can u sim eon on dungeon slice in comparison to 285?
robust lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uQQtnQbUQTZdFtc3DyxmMB 259/246 belf dslice
hmm that's velf tho with fuu profile, mine is belf
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cJNMtei7sv6mcTXTq8PzAz 259/246 vs 272 belf dslice
lemme do another one so they all belf
neat dagger
ok, at least on m+ u dont take eon
robust lotus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bBtJTmAWsS2MWY1pVzwpjx 259/259 belf dslice
rapid ledge
so we should expect nerf to this nice fine dagger lol
robust lotus
Hopefully
But not right away
Nerf to the dmg enough to make it worse but still valuable for prog til new weapon
wind furnace
so we should expect nerf to this nice fine dagger lol
hard to say, but there is a lot of power in the item
unkempt peak
So those two class rings that got datamined, do we think priest and DK are the only classes that are getting a ring? Or would it be safe to say all classes might see one?
left bramble
That was lore-based rings đ doubt it will be for all classes
wind furnace
278 vs sylvanas dagger: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hiRgL4BAqT8kqmteUGDNnz
285 vs sylvanas dagger https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wpr2RowiHR6M6jQifr6b1D
probably should add a 2x 285 and 2x 278 to it
the 278/285 mainhand is with probably weak stats for 9.2
so possibly .3% higher or so when i put in the raid dagger
moment, ill try to get the ptr daggers in the sim
nova nexus
was going to say whatâs the baseline of double 278
wind furnace
the baseline is 2x sylvanas dagger in this case
nova nexus
right but should baseline be no previous tier?
wind furnace
probably ye
thats why i mentioned it, its probably interessting to see how much gain there is
nova nexus
yeah and for people either swapping to rogue or that donât have it we can see how đ it is
wind furnace
its a hard discussion to have
because people did spend a lot of time optaining the dagger
and its from a important lore figure
nova nexus
itâs just numbers. ultimately if I play better it shouldnât matter that much
wind furnace
does that mean it should be kept as the strongest weapon for the next tier, i am unsure
nova nexus
i just donât like the cheese with em, but ultimately it is what it is
thin arrow
Darn just did a +15 on Ptr with all the free gear and stuff was getting owned my my frost mage friend :/ realy hope this is not the final tunning tbh
wind furnace
comparing it to this weapon:
nova nexus
1.5% diff for heroic to 278. kinda amusing. 32ilvl
livid ferry
Darn just did a +15 on Ptr with all the free gear and stuff was getting owned my...
Its not
Were gonna get nerfed
Rogues donât compete in the aoe department lol
thin arrow
Aye but still we are worst on Aoe then on 9.1.5 imo
nova nexus
based on what?
livid ferry
Hes probably comparing it relative to overall dps in dungeons in 9.1 to 9.2 ptr lol
Where he is probably getting gapped by mage more on ptr
Than on live
feral schooner
Can we even loot 285 dagger?
feral schooner
278 vs sylvanas dagger: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hiRgL4BAqT8kqmte...
Ty for the sims
wind furnace
i think the last one is more informatl
*informal
this one
as it basically shows that we will use 2x sylvanas for mythic with current standing
ofc only in raid, in m+ it probably will be diffrent gvieme a sec to re-run it for slice
nova nexus
my purgatory
wind furnace
ofc potentially a bit missleading given its on kyrian
but sylvanas offhand just seems to be sticking in oh
nova nexus
iâm glad you ran dslice. not surprised itâs better at mythic
wind furnace
i can run it with venthyr in a sec to compare
would potentially make sense for both
to see how much kyrian contributes
feral schooner
fuu ty so much for these sims â¤ď¸
wind furnace
no problem, those are not big effort. Most effort is usually in optimizing the apl
mellow urchin
@wind furnace can you give me a sim with just 1 legendary
just RC for kyrian, just obedience for venthyr
wind furnace
for what circumstance? dagger?
wind furnace
oh ye sure
mellow urchin
well we wont have double legendary
nova nexus
do those change with akaari?
or the covenant ones still ahead
akaari instead of covenant is what I mean.
wind furnace
the sims in the pins are with akaris
iirc
dagger comparison for venthyr:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cfpBkGGxdnKsiqaUaziCYr
wind furnace
oh
not sure if akaari beats the covenant specific but def. interessting question, lets see
kyrian rc: 13.14k
kyrian akaari: 13k -140 dps
nova nexus
not too far off with tier
wind furnace
venthyr obedience: 12.9k
venthyr akaari 12.75k - 150 dps
~150 dps for both
hmm
maybe even lower
giveme a sec
robust lotus
dslice kyrian bigger number 
wind furnace
kyrian is dps wise for a while ahead in dslice
but venthyr is a lot higher in prio damage
robust lotus
makes sense
wind furnace
but give me 2 mins to check something
mellow urchin
PV change?
wind furnace
ye i just check that
still around 100 dps for kyrian, seems similar on venthyr so need to double check
its within error range
interesstingly enough seems dps neutral on it when i re-run it
giveme a sec to change with shb condition
okay that seems better
wind furnace
moment
mossy carbon
Feel like akaari's would have to be a decent bit better to be worth using on all but pure ST, presumably as soon as you introduce any scenario where you would storm in dance it loses some value
But if you're rerolling rogue it might be worth crafting akaari's if you want to save gold and get the lego belt for free as a second lego
mossy carbon
And mikanikos cdr
mellow urchin
50 dps diff?
wind furnace
ill compare akaari/obedience in a sec to make it more obviouse
mellow urchin
no
pale jetty
Why the fuck not
mellow urchin
idk
pale jetty
Dude I don't get this spec
pale jetty
They spam the word "shadow" in tooltips that are physical
mellow urchin
and got changed to phys
nova nexus
probably for pvp reasons
pale jetty
PvP reasons?
mellow urchin
doubts
nova nexus
bypassing physical is kinda strong
mellow urchin
they just had a hard time finding a balance for the legendary with shadow
cus of DD
but i feel like it mgiht have been done when DD was still like 30% increased shadow dmg on r1
pale jetty
I think akaari was just overturned and they went a bit hard with the nerfs on it
mellow urchin
dont remember completely
nova nexus
or they just threw darts at the wall because nothing was done to rogue during beta
pale jetty
It was literally a stronger shadowstrike
I never realized it's physical now though
On the topic of that though
Still waiting for sectech to be given the fw bonus DMG treatment
nova nexus
pale jetty
So far sectech literally spawns shadow clones but does no shadow damage
wind furnace
i think that is a lot easier to understand
to show the diffrence on venthyr extra as its probably easier with diffrence reference
akaari is actually fairly close in value
.6 to .9% dps
neat dagger
I hope sub will be Meta in m+
Im pugging 80% and if not i wont get inv anymore đđ
neat dagger
Letâs hope so đ
mellow urchin
ye but we're dropping a dagger
robust lotus
there's been a minor outcry that weapons are an issue
so hopefully blizzard have picked it up
wind furnace
tier set stats still seem somewhat placeholder for example
you mean weapon aquisition
mellow urchin
Is there no new dagger
not gonna be one
wind furnace
or do you talk about power level of the sylvanas dagger
pale jetty
Why tf isn't there gonna be one
pale jetty
Yeah but they done fucked up this tier
pale jetty
9.1
mellow urchin
why
pale jetty
People will have to get a dagger
pale jetty
Is it not that big anymore or smth?
I forgot where that sim was with daggers compared to no daggers
mellow urchin
well its 2.5%
ur not gonna have to get it
it will help
but its not mandatory
and if ur planning to reroll rogue
and havent started clearing the raid for dagger already
pale jetty
Divers folly flashbacks
mellow urchin
ur probably not that serious about the game
wind furnace
2.5% is quite big in terms of dps
mellow urchin
9.1 stuff
wind furnace
with old conduit levels