Half Crit over a proc
#classic-discussion
quiet bloom
im at 33% do you have blastershot and quickstrike?
@teal jetty
i also dont have aged corehound gloves yet so i guess that puts me down 1% crit
teal jetty
5/8 T1. 2/8 T2
Age gloves
Don ring
BoA ring
Blastershot
For fun, I got every buff you can for dps had like 55 Crit lol
thick sinew
i've been messing around with hemo swords pvp for a bit but respeccing combat for bwl. trying to decide if daggers or swords would be better based on my gear. i have krol/mirah or gutgore/distracting. also have the +daggers mc gloves.
plucky nymph
Daggers
thick sinew
i'd like to go hemo swords again after we get bwl on farm cause i like pvp more anyways so it's temporary regardless
plucky nymph
Ye.
thick sinew
prob worth playing daggers for now just because the massive +daggers i have between the oh and gloves huh
hushed laurel
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23302789
WSG legs and ele fire xmute dropping today apparently
hushed laurel
Website got updated, xmute removed, still no word on the leggings
plucky nymph
😐
scenic widget
Evening friends..have a general question for those in the KNOW. Today in MC I was able to bid and win the Strikers Mark bow. This put me at 10% hit. Not sure if I should use a Painweaver Band or use DBL Tarnished Elven rings? Rings are the last things I need via MC/Ony..everything else is NS/Bloodfang along with my weapons. Didn't know how much diminishing returns I would get for being 10% hit or 9% and about 1/2 a crit more with Painweaver. Thanks for your time.
versed cedar
9% is yellow hitcap, after that, hit still remains a good stat, so no problem with going above
on my bwl bis gear im getting to 18% hit + 309 weaponskill
so 21% hit 😉
@scenic widget
scenic widget
Thank you for your help. It was a slight adjustment in stats just wanted to make the right call. Be safe my friend.
stable wave
is it worth replacing distracting dagger for gutgore ripper ? - making my dagger skill 305? probably not right=
versed cedar
what build are you playing @stable wave ?
if you play combat rogue you have 305 via talents. you maybe should get muggers belt from the captain in DM north
but remember that gutgore consumes a debuffslot
stable wave
gutgore doesnt work in raids tho? atleast from what i experienced in MC. i might just wait for the aged core leather gloves to drop and then go with it @versed cedar
versed cedar
getting aclg can take forever maybe. But muggers belt is a pretty solid item. Sure distracting is also, but gutgore should be the better dmg option, dmgwise
but those +5 from the belt, or dagger, are not that huge.
since you get "only" 0.3% hit and from 15% to 5% glancing blow penalty
would suggest you use a sim spreadsheet from rogue classic discord
stable wave
hm ok i guess ill look into it more
orchid ingot
with +15 agi to weapon out now, Crusader is still better for combat sword pve, right?
trim furnace
blood of the enemy rank 2 vs the crucible of flame and essence of the focusing iris
wich should i use
fair carbon
signal ember
Nah, try #subtlety
We already get enough of bote vs iris
but flame is the new one 
plucky nymph
o _o #classic-discussion o _o
signal ember
I killed the same mage 5 times last night in a row and he 100% logged in org
10% alliance vs 90% horde ratio btw.
sonic stone
any info on the dps 15 agi vs crusader on OH dagger ? i would bet crusader is better for really short fights with its ~1 PPM but what about longer? Also considering the crit which benefits dagger greatly
wowhead bis guide shows 15 agi but im not sold and shadowpanther doesnt really consider fight length nor usage of AR while crusader is up i think
plucky nymph
agi on OH
prisma river
anyone have any facts on +15 agi over crusader for swords.. whisper plz
plucky nymph
They are even on OH, AGI is better at any time you cannot make use of all of the Crusader proc from your weapons. @prisma river
prisma river
TY
raven snow
is nightslayer shoulders better then bloodfang?
plucky nymph
yes
drowsy phoenix
assuming dags is still +5 on MH
plucky nymph
Not 100% on that, probably close between it and Sader.
gilded pebble
is 1 rogue respeccing to master of deception really required for BWL broodlord
cedar jewel
No
fair adder
Anyone know of a good sub build ? PvP /leveling . Also is it preferred to use daggers with it?
plucky nymph
@gilded pebble To confirm Macko here, you do not need anything (boots from class quest are a nice addition) to work the suppression units as the whelps have extremely poor stealth detection.
@raven snow The set does not deal damage in such a fashion, it does the damage and gives you a heal over time;
So it deals 300dmg on average and heals you for 300 health, 1-3 times a minute.
@fair adder Hemo does not use normalized DMG values so the fattest, slowest thing you can find to hit people with will net better results.
grim dome
Instant poison or crit stones??
plucky nymph
Stones on bosses that are poison/nature immune.
grim dome
poisons are only 3-4% of a rogues dmg, crit stones wont gain you more than 3-4%?
signal ember
But it will increase chance of critting when you can't take advantage of the poison.
Better than going raw at that point.
@fair adder I leveled as sub on horde for a bit, took up remorseful strike, went in imp backstab and went deep in sub. I was basically two shot mobs while leveling with daggers at my level.
graceful tendon
what kind of %hit am i lookin to be at as a combat dagger rogue with age core leather gloves?
plucky nymph
Same as everyone else as +WeaponSkill nets you a percentage of hit
drowsy phoenix
if I've got BF 3-set, what's my ESS/DSS/IPVI situation looking like?
plucky nymph
Doesn't change.
drowsy phoenix
what's the name of that one goblin that gives BSB rep until exalted?
found it from september, it's Jazzrik supposedly
versed cedar
hm... 8pc t2 or 5pc + t1 shoulders+aclg+shadowflame boots
sour silo
What would be a better upgrade: T1 Helm or Mask of the Unforgiven, the only catch is the T1 helm will drop me to 8% hit
versed cedar
@sour silo is the mask your only +hit item?
last plover
1/1 Relentless Strikes and 4/5 Lethality or 5/5 Lethality for combat dagger rogues
versed cedar
first option
untold birch
@sour silo hit% until you find that 1% elsewhere imo
maiden cave
what the fuck
if he's combat specced he only needs 6% hit minimum
due to 305 WS, and 5% of the 6% are provided by talents in combat
untold birch
Wait. So if you had 300 WS, how much hit would you need?
I thought it was 9% hit for enemies 3 levels higher than you regardless
Oh minimum. I could be wrong, but considering most of our damage comes from white hits wouldn’t 9% be top priority?
@maiden cave
maiden cave
just read the faq on the rogue discord ;p
rancid nova
What do u guys consider best 2 swords to use now for Human rogue and any other race?
hushed laurel
Humans use CTS and brut blade iirc, nonhumans use cts and maladeth
worldly patio
Hey guys, I'm still working my way to 60 as combat swords. I'm really thinking about respeccing to combat daggers for dungeon spamming. What kind of BoE weps should I be looking for? I currently have the Shadowfoot Stabber for my mh but I do not know what to pick up for my offhand. Should I be looking for something like scarlet kris or demon blade? And "x of the tiger" or "x of power"? Thanks!
plucky nymph
Something in here;
Most are not BoEs but all are fine starting off-hands. @worldly patio
worldly patio
Thanks dude! Much appreciated! ❤
sonic stone
any info on the dps difference between the 3 Ruthlesness + 3 lethality VS 2 Murder + 4 Lethality? For combat daggers that is
drowsy phoenix
so I just got rep from a BB bruiser even after being honored
is it supposed to stop at 11999/12000 or was I not even supposed to have received honored
raven snow
is there any benefit to having more then 310 weapon skill?
short stone
@raven snow there technically is but it's sooooo tiny it's not worth it. 308 is the sweet spot.
plucky nymph
@raven snow If you've issues reading the table I can clarify it for you.
teal jetty
thinking about going Seal Of Fate for BWL... cant keep on the boss for Adrl rush and BF to stay up...with all the running in and out... all t he extra combo points would be nice.
untold birch
Gonna be streaming some BRD pickpocket farming at 7PM CST. If any rogues wanna hop in and get some help on their gold farming I'm more than happy to help, just shoot me a DM
Not posting link here unless a mod clears it
plucky nymph
We've a streamer channel that should auto-post you going live if you have that stuff setup.
untold birch
Ah forsure. Just wanted to extend the offer to help anyone on their gold farm here
signal ember
Would it be easier to do cold blood hemo build over daggers with imp Sprint?
I can probably imagine it would be and I still got my swords
Actually my MH dagger have higher dmg than my sword I think.
hidden basin
Do you really need energy tickers and weapon swing timer addons?
plucky nymph
Nope.
grim dome
how is krol blade for preraid BIS compared to thrash?
prisma river
Elementals deck maelstrom trinket.. where do u guys think this falls under? bis or non bis?
random glacier
Maelstrom is garbage afaik
PvE Combat daggers. +5 wep dmg, crusader or +15agi enchants?
Some say crusader on both. Some say +5dmg MH and +15agi OH.
maiden cave
@random glacier P3 Dagger Enchants Both PvE and PvP: +5/+15 Agility PvE only: Crusader/+15 Agility (can also go Crusader OH, if you wish) PvP only: +5/+15 Agility (or Weapon Chain over Agility) Vael-only MH Dagger: Crusader unless you really hate RNG, then +5.
cursive snow
what threat addon you all use
hushed laurel
I use details, but I'm going to shop around this week because it was wrong on vael and broodlord
plucky nymph
Some of the other meters either don't play well together or there's some funkiness going on that caused me to have huge frame drops on Brood so I turned that shit off O _O
Other addons shouldn't be more accurate however unless there is something seriously wrong with their math as they all use the same DLL to get the information.
There are also some WA options;
https://wago.io/NLLPDN2pO
https://wago.io/gjnbtQTHc
hushed laurel
one vael kill had the first person to get aggro after the tank death was a rogue who wasnt even listed in the top 10 of aggro. was fucking weird
plucky nymph
Yeah energy generation is weird and might need a library update to "fix".
cursive snow
yeah i was showed under 5 people on vale and on one the drakes and still took aggro
so thats why I was trying to find a new more accurate addon
plucky nymph
Not such thing AFAIK, they all use the same library.
sudden phoenix
Any stat experts here?
Have +10 to daggers, should hit get priority over crit? Even after 9% hit is achieved?
plucky nymph
sudden phoenix
That’s for yellow hits?
hushed laurel
yes
sudden phoenix
Is there a similar table for white hits?
Since with precision and expertise it seems to hit cap pretty quick with 1% added
I guess I’m wondering if it’s even worth having additional hit beyond that, for white damage?
plucky nymph
white hit cap is like 24%
sudden phoenix
Ahh ok
plucky nymph
sudden phoenix
Since majority of our damage is white wondering if hit was still priority
plucky nymph
That's @ 305 weapon skill
sudden phoenix
Nice ty
plucky nymph
Hit is worth about as much as Crit
sudden phoenix
Got it. Is it correct that crit cap goes up with more hit?
plucky nymph
That's the easy way to look at it.
plucky nymph
The hard way is just knowing what your crit cap is and getting more hit when you need to.
sudden phoenix
Ah ok yea I think that’s where I’m at right now
With buffs I’m way over crit cap, with buffs
Crit cap for white damage *
Does this look right?
“29.8% Crit = Crit Cap of Auto Attacks with 0% Hit Rating, from behind the Boss
38.8% Crit = Crit Cap of Auto Attacks with 9% Hit Rating, from behind the Boss
86.4% Crit = Crit Cap of Abilities with 0% Hit Rating, from behind the Boss
95.4% Crit = Crit Cap of Abilities with 9% Hit Rating, from behind the Boss”?
plucky nymph
@ 300 weapon skill, +0% hit against a level 63 target from behind you have a crit cap of 31.9%
+Hit scales linearly, so every 1% you get you get ~1% added to the "crit cap".
sudden phoenix
This is so helpful thank you
plucky nymph
Just think of the cap as 32 + total_hit (eg. gear, weapon_skill (3% hit @ 305), precision (5%)).
bronze ferry
@grim dome I know you asked a couple days ago, not sure if you got an answer, Krol blade is the BiS pre-raid sword for combat, beaten only by the Dal'rend set. Can be paired with the off-hand from the Scholomance quest chain for quick sword + good stat bonus.
The main-hand Dal'rend is pretty damn close to being better than Krol, but if you don't want to farm UBRS and just want to zip into raiding or farm easier, that's your best bet.
grim dome
@bronze ferry ive been told by multiple people that sword of zeal is slightly better than krol blade, and fight club also says sword of zeal is better than krol for warriors so im inclined to believe its the same for rogues given that a bunch of people all say the same thing
bronze ferry
Oh wow! I don't remember actually seeing this sword before, but that proc looks pretty damn good
acoustic dagger
haughty osprey
Any one got data on tier 2 set procrates?
turbid nebula
Sword rogue - Alliance. Ive been unsuccessfully trying to improve my parse every raid and have sort have plateaued around 49... not good. I have been getting better at timing my cooldowns to maximize effect (right after crusader procs, or with ample time before running out) and timing my thistle tea consumption BUT the main issue is always my slice and dice downtime. I have nug energy and the other nug addon that tracks my swings but am still unable to keep my slice and dice up sufficiently. For whatever reason watching the buff timer while managing threat and callouts just isint working well for me.
Is there an addon you guys recommend that would clearly tell me when Im about to run out of my slice and dice buff?
prisma river
To be honest; if ur parsing 49 I doubt ur anywhere close to grabbing threat if the tanks good, drop the swing timer for now and concentrate on slice and dice, roughly 60 percent of ur dmg is white! Baby steps
If anything after u blow cds vanish and 100 percent u shouldn’t grab threat
turbid nebula
Thank you @prisma river, the 49 is sort of an average between boss fights but I totally hear you. Watching threat has been tricky since I dont think my threat meter is always accurate (classic threat meter and details before that). Yes I am focusing on slice and dice not falling off
cedar jewel
Apparently the creator of classic threat meter abandoned the project, use either TinyThreat (from details) or ThreatClassic2 @turbid nebula
turbid nebula
Thank you @cedar jewel
plucky nymph
@haughty osprey No but even assuming 1PPM has the set doing well, of course it could be worse than that and it's probably only Swords that can make use of it.
haughty osprey
wouldn't 1ppm translate into 300 damage per minute, which is like 5 dps?
plucky nymph
Yes but things are not locked into only proccing that much.
keen harbor
Hey everyone, I just got Vis'kag but a bit unsure what to pair it with. It seems Distracting Dagger even on combat spec has ever so slight DPS increase over Mirah's Song. Any advice?
plucky nymph
Mirahs > DD
prisma river
Are u night elf or human?
keen harbor
Orc 😛
hushed laurel
Zugzug!
cursive snow
quick question whats the techincal hit cap for human swords rogues
plucky nymph
Same as everyone else you just get your weapon skill not from talents.
cursive snow
I know you want higher later im just trying to think the hit cap of like 309
of swords kills
didnt know if it would be lower with the higher exper
hushed laurel
by technical do you mean yellow hits? yellow htis is 6%
plucky nymph
The math remains the same.
hushed laurel
partial % doesnt matter, jsut the whole number, so the only break point for actual hit/miss chance is 305 and 315
you never want 315
308 is the "correct" number to reach for, 307 is barely different
cursive snow
yeah I got you
plucky nymph
308 being the breakpoint for glancing penalty and not hit/miss but ye.
cursive snow
was just making sure
teal jetty
Have a question about WF totem... what is ICD
How long do you have to wait to get another Proc
sage mica
What patch is classic on, 1.12?
teal jetty
yes
sage mica
So I know for a fact there was no ICD on the totem spell of WF back then, not sure about the weapon spell though.
hushed laurel
there isnt a hard ICD on it, it jsut cant proc off itself
teal jetty
ok 2 melee in the same grp, 1 shaman ... how is one person getting 30 and other 22?
teal jetty
our shaman was twisting... trying see why the warrior got the buff more then i did
just the buff not proc
plucky nymph
It's just a proc, nothing weird or special.
teal jetty
is that showing the proc or when the totem buff gets on me
dense brook
pve human combat sword spec here - just got brutality blade as my MH - am i better off with dal'rends OH or bonescraper for raiding? crusader on both obv. im assuming bonescraper but just wanna check. 😗
plucky nymph
Bonescrapper, Dal'rends OH is pretty poop but better by like 3dps
Do you not have your Mirah's Song still that's the better choice really >_>'
@dense brook
dense brook
@plucky nymph wouldn't the +.4 dagger speed crusader proc + 30 AP > 9agi/9str?
dense brook
anyway, no, i dont have mirah's. eff me. thanks
dense brook
@plucky nymph sold it ages ago when i was dumb. between the two, which am i better off with? bonescraper? appreciate the insight
cursive dirge
F for all the Mirah's Songs lost along the way
plucky nymph
@dense brook DR OH and Bonescrapper are very close to one another with DR OH being ahead by a tiny amount.
dense brook
ok... just got felstriker... lmao. Brutatlity Blade in MH or should i respec to daggers?
hushed laurel
Classic PTR is testing ZG and AB. No classic+, who woulda thought 
drowsy phoenix
phase 4 coming too quickly I need more time to parse in the P3 time field
hushed laurel
yah, ZG is a 20 man raid, doesnt add much gear wise either
well, for melee
casters live for ZG
cedar jewel
Warblade oh bis for human rogues
raven snow
Any recommendations for dagger pvp spec?
Was cold blood prep and hemo when I was rolling with swords, recently got some daggers and wanted to try something else out. Currently improved sprint build
turbid nebula
NE Sword rogue - I already have 10% hit without Satyr's Bow, should I be equipping Bloodseeker in my ranged slots for the stats? or Satyrs Bow for 11% hit?
deep prawn
@turbid nebula cant give accurate answer without all missing details so using my own rogue as a example. Simmed 0.2dps difference beetween those two. Satyr's Bow was higher and on my rogues case it was 11->12%hit
turbid nebula
@deep prawn thank you!
raven snow
Hi, was wondering about T1 5/8 + T2 head + T1 belt & bracer vs 6/6 R10 set + T1 belt & bracer. Which is better and why? Strictly asking for PVP daggers. Thanks.
strong basin
@raven snow the best you can do is probably 5/8 t1 and 3/8 t2 if you have BF pants and gloves. Otherwise rank 7 gloves
raven snow
Alright thanks a lot, but if you had to choose between the 2 options I stated above. What would you go with for PVP daggers?
strong basin
t1 5/8 for the set piece bonus. its good in pvp
hushed laurel
Well, despite having to yell at people for not bringing holy water or sappers, nef is ded. Time to push MC and BWL into 3 hours and sleep through another raid tier
versed cedar
waiting 4 p5 already
novel cape
Is bwl rogue trinket worth using? Pairs with cds at the start of the fight then vanishing/equipping bb?
cursive snow
Do dagger rogues even try to go for 5 piece t2 or no
teal jetty
For daggers 5/8 T2 with T1 shoulders, age core and shadow flame boots
plucky nymph
@novel cape It's fine for PVP and fine for fights under 1min where you do not have Windfury.
prisma river
Wish I had wind fury
west yew
what does Hemorrhage do?
outer sun
Guys, is it worth it to Eviscerate @ Vael as daggers rogue ?
or just Backstab and Slice and Dice is best dps ?
lime pewter
@deep prawn is there a public simcraft for classic, or a similar tool? If yes, please link. Thanks
hushed laurel
There's a spreadsheet
clear adder
Denzar. You want to backstab and SND. Don't worry about your combo points. Your most efficient damage skill is backstab.
If you happen to be Seal Fate spec'd (or spec'd high enough into Assassination to have Cold Blood) then hitting 1x 5 point Eviscerate is probably fine. Ultimately though, you pretty much get to go crazy with backstabs.
plucky nymph
Current Phase 3 Sword Spec
3/3 Improved Backstab is taken as you should be using daggers and Backstabbing for Vael.
Taking either Improved Gouge or Lightning Reflexes is fine.
Change Sword Spec points for Fist Spec points if you use Claw/etc.
cursive snow
can CoR sunder armor FF and like the annihilator debuffs all stack
on reducing armor
hushed laurel
yes, but not expose armor, riven spike and a few others, but those 3 stack
plucky nymph
EA replaces FF and Sunder ye?
hushed laurel
i thought you couldnt cast EA with FF or sunder up, but i dont remember.
plucky nymph
Well without ImpEA I don't think you can.
ashen acorn
Everyone else banking DKP for CTS and I'm getting discount T2 gloves, boots and spaulders 
full T2 the only relevant goal in BWL
hushed laurel
Best looking set fosho
plucky nymph
No we don't use DKP like a buncha fucking cavemen 
hushed laurel
We finally swapped to zero sum DKP. Makes like easy for the officer team
plucky nymph
heckYe
granite kettle
trying to understand the crit cap. is it not ~50% for rogues baseline before adding +1 for every hit?
100%- 25% (dw miss at 305) - 6% (dodge at 305) - 15% (glancing at 305) - 3% (crit suppression not counting the unknown suppression) = 51..?
plucky nymph
There's a calculator;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NWKnSmYseruEUb06wOYbWHS6IxriHNd7E2fkBRBXxLY/copy
granite kettle
oh ya
fluid meteor
Is waiting for a MH swing to use SS a thing? Or just spam SS
plucky nymph
More important if you are Horde with Windfury than for Alliance, but there's a gain to be had either way.
fluid meteor
Horde for me
plucky nymph
Also more important if you are Swords over Daggers and use HoJ and not something else.
raven snow
does attack power affect my backstabs?
signal ember
Yes, attack power affect your overall raw damage
candid parrot
Anyone seeing success with Claw of the Black Drake? 23 weeks and Perd still hasn't dropped. Looking for a temporary to replace lobo
plucky nymph
Just as good as the other options.
stable wave
dragonfang blade is also a good replacement @candid parrot.
lunar cove
hi guys, weapon swing timers are useless for rogues, right?
drowsy phoenix
unless sword spec
lunar cove
how to take advantage of the 5% procc?
stable wave
@lunar cove as a sword rogue you can proc extra hits (also as horde -WF and if you are using HoJ) - which resets your auto attack timer (swing timer). so you would want to use Sinister Strike right after you auto attack - so if you do proc extra attacks on SS you loose the least amount of time between autoattacks - if that makes sense - im bad at explaining
lunar cove
okay makes sense thanks
inner falcon
Is it worth to aim for Claw of the Black Drake and later in AQ Silithid Claw? Fistweapon-Rogue, u know
drowsy phoenix
fist rogue is only really on par at the end with GM fist main hand/naxx fist OH
stable wave
claw is great for pvp if nothing else- but i did see some rogues do some nutty dps with that fist as a MH. just saying
@inner falcon
inner falcon
What is GM?
drowsy phoenix
grand marshal
fair carbon
Hemo Servo 
inner falcon
Definitely not aiming for that
Is crusader better on a MH-Fistweapon or +weapondmg like daggerentchant
hushed laurel
apparently thje guild is a DKP guild with totally open bid
looks like he has a blastershot launcher too
inner falcon
omg
onyx stag
Anyone else's swing timer go reset ham as a sword rogue?
wispy crater
I want to know if JUJU Flurry stack with Flurry (ability) or is better use them in another way?
versed cedar
dont use flurry juju
it speeds up your attack speed, but lowers also your weapon dmg for 3%
not worth it
@wispy crater
thick sinew
how does seal fate daggers hold up in pvp? got dfb and i'm at 31% crit unbuffed so i'm gonna give it a go for bwl but wondering if it'll be decent or at least better than combat in bgs
versed cedar
remember you lose 5% crit after speccing seal fate
also for bwl raiding seal fate is way behind combat dagger or combat sword
thick sinew
i was curious if the dagger spec talent was calculated in the crit % in stat sheet
guess so huh
cedar jewel
Seal fate will never outdps combat if that’s what you’re asking
granite kettle
what a fucking idiot hunter to use dkp on those
hushed laurel
im getting close to using dkp on mageblade and aurastone as a warrior >.>
thick sinew
i know seal fate wont out dps combat but combat is pretty trash in pvp so i was mainly wondering if it would be viable in both
gilded pebble
Bloodfang 8/8. Meme or bis?
unkempt junco
Is thistle tea mandatory for PVE? It is 80 silver per pop on my server.
Maybe I can do without and focus mainly on mongoose
thick sinew
i leveled herb alt just for tea lol
deep prawn
@unkempt junco nothing is mandatory but if u can't afford 80s per boss dunno what to say ><
hushed laurel
plenty of ways to make that gold with our without competition.
plucky nymph
@unkempt junco Check swiftthistle prices, you might just be able to buy some to sell and buy some to use.
Many times the margins are very large O _O
@gilded pebble 8/8 is BiS for non-daggers, you will still need Shadowflame boots for when we break Tier 2 in the future however.
stable wave
won't you just go for deathdealer boots when you break 8/8 tho? @plucky nymph
plucky nymph
You break T2 before you get T2.5 😐 Darkmantle is a thing.
stable wave
so darkmantle will be better for pve aswell? what about for dagger rogues?
plucky nymph
I do not know about daggers sorry.
stable wave
thanks for the info anyways
hushed meteor
Gnome sword rogue who just got claw of the black drake, go fist spec and do MH drake fist OH BB (crusader/15agi enchants)? My current OH is still mirah cause our luck is terrible with weapons
wispy crater
Hi all iam first time noob rogue FahviTV answer me thats JUJU flurry3% haste its non worth in raw dps due 3% drop weapon damage( recognized bugs unfixed) but i want know if proc chance of energy tick, crusaderbuff or venom proc will be affected! And how much this came into equation.
Thx for answer
versed cedar
@wispy crater Text from Hanbi (Mod on Classic Rogue discord):
Hanbi 13.01.2020
yeah flurry is confirmed "not a bug" by blizzard
so just avoid that forever
Juju Flurry is a DPS downgrade not worth it. Don't use it.
you can just try it in sim sheets if you can choose it there as a buff option
that was found out by fight club discord theorycrafting
if crusader procs more often by faster attackspeed? as much as it procs more often with faster weapons. but its still not worth it
wispy crater
ok sigh useless farming thx for aswer
jovial comet
Bloodrazer MH with Thrashblade OH, good or bad idea? Lvl45 leveling Rogue.
onyx stag
fast OH while leveling is much better for poison procs
versed cedar
thrashblade should be slightly better than bloodrazor, especially if your specced into swords
or can the extra proc not proc sword spec extra hit?
onyx stag
isnt thrash blade mad low proc
versed cedar
im justing copying data from shadowpanther
and the proc is not that bad
and afaik thrashblade proc can proc windfury/hoj/sword-spec
wispy crater
Hi mate for us rogue what is the best darkmoon fairies buff? +10% damage or +10% Agility?
thx in advance
stable wave
+dmg imo
raven snow
Should’ve sold the bloodrazor and mh thrash and who cares about the OH for leveling
ruby spruce
Might be a stupid question but is Maladath still BiS as a human or do i want to go for something else?
plucky nymph
You will want ZG OH, BB is better for Humans until then. @ruby spruce
plucky nymph
hahaha, GL.
ruby spruce
😛
plucky nymph
Your more likely OHs as Human.
But that's also a while out and things might change by then, who knows!!
ruby spruce
I see vis kag is rated higher than BB and the ZG wep
Do i still need the zg wep for higher poison and 8-set proc?
plucky nymph
If by 8-piece you mean Tier 2 we will likely remove most of it come Phase 5 for Darkmantle pieces.
ruby spruce
Right
drowsy phoenix
what's the darkmantle combo? right now im looking at feet/hands/waist/wrists
plucky nymph
Lemme see what I have on sixty reeeal fast. @drowsy phoenix
This is what I have atm that has the smallest drop in weighted stats -
I need to look back through the stat weights and see if they make 100% sense though.
But this is also AQ40 gear and not T2+T.5
drowsy phoenix
BF boots are 25 agi 6 str so there might be shuffling
plucky nymph
T2+T.5
T2 bracers are a substantial upgrade over other poopoo bracers while boots are yeah, kinda butt.
runic lance
May I ask why agility over crusader on the swords? Big ole noob here btw.
plucky nymph
It's really meant to be Crusader on the MH it just defaulted to AGI.
AGI = Crusader on the OH however, and is completely consistent.
runic lance
hmm, might have to try that when I finally get a damn sword, they never drop for us, been raiding since Oct, haven't missed a lockout, and still using dal-rends
plucky nymph
Ya get what you can man, we've seen 2 Bruts, 1 Deathbringers and 2 Viskag total.
runic lance
ouch
plucky nymph
and that's with having done 2 splits every normal reset week since week 2.
runic lance
we did see a maladath week on of bwl, but i lost the dkp bid by 1
plucky nymph
Better luck next time!
runic lance
yeah, just waiting for the drop, cuz I have top dkp, fingers crossed it's soon!
even gonna go for claw of black drake if it drops, cuz just tired of the rends
plucky nymph
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/683834480619814933/unknown.png
Im wigglin mine at you for luck!!
Claw of the Black Drake is good 👌
runic lance
i saw on shadowpanther where they rate it higher than viskag
plucky nymph
IIRC bonuses aren't 100% done so do take it with a grain of salt.
runic lance
true, but anything at this point is welcome in my hands, lol
plucky nymph
ye GL!!
runic lance
ty ty GL on gettin a cts upgrade for you as well
plucky nymph
We've 2 non daggers so the first one is going to the other dood unless he gets a Mala as well
runic lance
we have 5 sword rogues in mine, once i get one, gonna be a while til i get another, lol
granite kettle
guys im so happy, I got a binding tn
plucky nymph
Start saving
granite kettle
also a funny thing on viskag.. split raids for months and still have not seen one - 3 dbs
deep prawn
1 viskag 0 axes split for months since release 2brutality blades.
starting to be meme soon
hushed laurel
Yah, no axes, perds or spinals for us.
gritty goblet
i just realised claw is an easy option for pvp, the sword rogues won't be mad on me for yoinking it
unkempt junco
We only got one Viskaq from beginning of Ony
And the rogue quit the game afterwards
4 brutality blades
2 Deathbringers
No BRE
2 Sulfuron but no BRE
One binder
Anyway, I now got 10 hit points instead of 11. Is that OK or should I go one more down to 9?
I got 5 from gear and 5 from the tallent pts.
stable wave
@unkempt junco anything over the hit cap is still a dps increase. So no need imo
deep prawn
@unkempt junco on my gear 1%hit is around worth 17ap so its not useless
prisma river
darkmoon fair.. 10% dmg or 10% agi
deep prawn
10% dmg is way better
unkempt junco
Thanks a lot guys
bronze geyser
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VSxFOc6eFYyoF6X19SQEKd12CJriIdXl/view this is the one I've seen going around, might only work in excel @open solar
open solar
thanks a lot
whole canyon
Hello!
[Skullforge Reaver] vs [Thrash Blade]
onyx stag
Any sword rogues here clearing BWL? for vaelastrasz do you go swap to a dagger and BS?
dense brook
Definitely dagger MH for vael. Just no lobotomizer
versed cedar
- remember to spec into imp. backstab for dagger to be viable on vael
like in mizeroks pinned post
tall roost
So I am a human rogue currently specced swords with brutality blade and mirah’s song. I got the claw from BWL and it’s currently simulating higher as claw main hand/brutality blade offhand and respecing for the bonus crit with fist weapons. (Until I can get a better second sword). Is there anything else different I should do to try to squeak out some extra dps?
unkempt junco
@plucky nymph Is there a Thunderfury in your guild?
plucky nymph
@unkempt junco 1 on tank yes.
runic lance
@tall roost If I win the claw, what I plan on doing is respecing and putting only 2 points into fist weaps and the other 3 into sword. I'm doing this cuz the 2 points into fist will put me at 30% crit for mh, and then since I'm still using the sword oh I figured why not get a chance at the extra hits. I may be wrong in doing this, but I think it may work out for me. What you do would depend on your other gear though I would think. Then again I could be completely wrong, I'm sure a smarter person will correct me @plucky nymph
plucky nymph
5/5 Fists: 1192 dps
2/5 Fists - 3/5 Swords: 1191.08
Doesn't matter really, just looks stupid.
Probably just pick one or the other, IMO.
@runic lance
plucky nymph
NP, they're to be taken with a grain of salt but they're good enough most of the time.
tall roost
Thank you! Literally no one wanted it other than to vendor so it went to me. I am working on leveling my 1h now and will give it a try. It just has such a high dps that it sims quite well
timid lotus
I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I am genuinely interested to hear the thoughts on Dragonfang Blade vs Core Hound Tooth as an Off Hand Weapon. Different sites, spreadsheets, and other discussions I have read have never really ironed out which is better. Let me know your thoughts! Thanks!
bronze geyser
Dragonfang is very good in either hand, just not BIS: MH - Perdition sims only 2.66 dps higher / OH - Core Hound Tooth only sims 2.28 dps higher.
Statwise in Off Hand, Core Hound Tooth gives 0.44% more crit and 4 more AP
dense brook
another felstriker OH q: i've got brut blade MH and just got up to roughly +19% bonus hit with 310 swords / 305 daggers. should i be using mugger's belt over bloodfang belt, which gets rid of my tier 2 3-set bonus? is the 310 dagger skill going to have a noticeable impact to my felstriker proc? still not sure how exactly weapon skill over 305 affects OH hit
bronze geyser
305 is the main jump for weapon skill, replacing bloodfang belt with mugger's belt for 310/310 instead of 310/305 sims -11.12 dps (didn't see 3pc note).
305 to 310 makes DW miss chance barely go down (0.4%?), so don't think it'd make it proc much more, if at all, to be worth it, not sure on that part exactly
dense brook
oo that's a lot less than i expected. i'll stick with BF. thanks!
hushed laurel
the glancing blow penalty is the important thing, ideally you have 308 weapon skill with your weapon, as thats a lot of glancing blow reduction
grave vault
Hey everyone new rogue to the discord =). Just wondering if I could get some advice regarding weapons – I’m an Orc rogue using Dal’Rend’s. Last week I was lucky enough to get vis’kag, initially i thought to run Vis MH and Mirah's OH as my new best combination, but post raid im wondering whether this was the right move after losing all that AP from the Dal'Rend's set
plucky nymph
@grave vault Vis+Mirah > DRs
raven snow
is there no dps simumlation app for classic yet?
stable wave
theres an excell spreadsheet that i know of. @raven snow
slim briar
Ey guys! Sorry if this been asked before. When is the right time to go seal fate in PVE. When you reach certain amount of crit? Or when you get death sting(cause you gain weapon skill back cause loosing it from combat tree.)? Or both? I tried to google it but only found stuff like 30% crit unbuffed. Sorry if this been discussed. And I have the +dagger gloves from mc(ofc:D)
stable wave
P5 with deathdealer's set is probably a good option imo, although i've already seen some people go SF now.
also as far as i know you don't loose precision with SF talents? @slim briar
slim briar
I’m was referring to loosing the expertise talent! And the dagger death sting gives you weapon skill to make up for the loosing of expertise talent
I understand combat will always be better while you still raiding MC cause of all the cleave trash/bosses. I will probably try it out myself next reset in bwl tho. Since I always come full world buff etc. It Will probably feel weird if I die and jump down to 27% crit. Will get 30ish with moongose etc but still🤪
bronze geyser
Simming Spreadsheet (Excel for Macros): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VSxFOc6eFYyoF6X19SQEKd12CJriIdXl/view
@raven snow
should maybe get a mod to pin it to resources for now
versed cedar
seal fate build does way less dmg than combat dagger, with p3 bis gear. about 150dps less on my sims. with t2.5 it starts getting viable, but the strongest time for seal fate is with 8pc t3
slim briar
@versed cedar thanks alot!!
last coyote
[8:46] DM N Tribute run (Duo Rogue/Druid any%) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQvCqGSBRk
Also curious if anyone else runs DM N with a druid would love to see any other tricks i might be missing
earnest pulsar
Hit% question...
The 9%, that's counting the 5% from talents, so you'd only need 4% from gear, correct?
or assuming you weren't combat spec'd then you'd get the 9% from gear... but it is still 9% regardless of source?
shadow tapir
Yes talents count but its actually 6% with 305 weapon skill
earnest pulsar
Thanks for the confirmation. I've been poking around google/shadowpanther/searching channels here/sticky's and I couldn't find a solid yes/no on the subject.
shadow tapir
Whoa idk why I typed 8%, its 6
With talent and 305 skill you only need 1% from gear, hit still has value past that though
@earnest pulsar
earnest pulsar
/nod
timid lotus
@slim briar I went Seal Fate last night and was pulling comparable numbers to what I was with what I was doing as combat. Some fights it truly felt easier, especially movement fights like firemaw and chromaggus. Not to mention Vael was so insane. I’ll snag a link to the logs and link it below. It’s definitely viable imo, just takes a lot of awareness and smart decisions on what you spend combo points on.
slim briar
@timid lotus hey man! Appreciate your answer! Let me see those logs! Your comment alone makes me wanna try it out!👌🏻 I mean We have everything on farm so it won’t hurt to just try it🍺
timid lotus
These were also incredible references on Seal Fate from back in the day. Most of it still holds up!
So I basically followed this and prioritized Eviscerate over SnD in most cases. If SnD was going to fall off for 3-5s that’s fine to get the eviscerate in. I normally was using SnD around 2-4 combo points and eviscerating above 4+ every time, saving cold blood for a 5 combo point eviscerate to see a big number. Another thing to look out for is when we get the Backstab book in p5, and the Eviscerate book in p6 I believe. I’m going to keep testing it over the next few weeks and will keep you guys in the loop of how it continues to hold up.
slim briar
Thanks for info!! Good job
plucky nymph
Mmmmm, parses please otherwise it's just hearsay.
timid lotus
Also keep in mind that it helps to have world buffs for this spec. The extra crit is amazing. I’m trying to convince my guild to put with the our Fetal Druid haha.
@plucky nymph check the log. I didn’t do anything crazy but I did show that the spec is super viable and can only get better with understanding of the play style.
plucky nymph
Parses, not one log, you're going to need many. No one isn't saying that it's not "viable" however, simply not as good a other options especially given the requirements to make it function.
timid lotus
Ah I get you! I will be doing it for the next few weeks I’ll keep you all in the loop! I really enjoyed the spec a lot.
slim briar
@plucky nymph 100%. I was originally wondering when it became equal/better. I got my answer above 🙂 if I remember I can share logs from when I try it(if I try) next week.
plucky nymph
It could be near the other options come AQ40, before that there's no chance outside of short duration fights beating the randomness of crit.
On top of that it might not actually be better once we've enough AP to stop using Eviscerate entirely, nullifying the point of generating Combo Points.
Soooo, somewhere in between there.
GL.
slim briar
@plucky nymph thanks a lot! Lots of good info!
Might be better off getting a viskag just to switch it up sometimes to not get burnt out
indigo parrot
yo is there a classic rogue discord that is sperate or should i ask in here?
plucky nymph
Here is fine, there's another server called Rogue Classic that a google search should be able to find
tough dew
does anyone know if nature resistance affects poisons? proc chance?
outer swift
So im kind of wondering wether CHT is better than OH Dal'rend for a combat sword rogue in raids.
stable wave
it is i believe
plucky nymph
@outer swift It's better ye.
bronze geyser
I'm I supposed to be doing something different on Vael as combat swords? always get a lower parse than other fights
raven snow
Should be equipping a dagger and spamming backstab
bronze geyser
ty ❤️
real scroll
ive never played classic before and im just curious if race matters, im gonna play alliance
hushed laurel
Race matters. Each race has unique racials which can have a big impact on certain classes
raven snow
hello guys! i wanted ask you: seal of fate build is viable for raid? from mc to naxx and aq
stable wave
viable? i guess - comparable to combat in dps at the moment? not so much. it gets better in AQ40 and beyond though.
slim briar
Scroll up a bit. Its been discussed👌🏻 @raven snow
raven snow
thanks 🙂
stable wave
i mean there isn't a big difference in combat and SF for pve if you ask me
rotation wise
raven snow
backstab and coldblood instead of adrenaline rush and sinister strike...... yes, there are no big differences ... but what I don't like about combat is that 90% of rogues use it .... I go against the trend in many things to look for new builds that can be performing
stable wave
there is a dagger combat spec?
raven snow
no no i mean the classic combat spec without daggers
timid lotus
I’ve put in one clear of BWL and one clear of MC. Seal Fate benefits a ton from getting world buffs, but once you start to understand the prioritization of how to spend your combo points is where you will actually be able to put up the best numbers. I plan on putting together my thoughts and opinions on the spec in a few weeks using logs to compare from my time spent as combat in comparison to Seal Fate. I’ll keep you guys in the loop with how it goes and post my final thoughts. My initial thoughts on the spec though (sorry this is getting long) is that it’s super fun and incredibly viable but you can’t slack and have to be prepared to make the right decision on your combo points.
I’ll be discussing the rotation, gear choices, trash, boss encounters, and everything else in between in my write up.
raven snow
i'm interested!
coarse spire
Any1 got any numbers on how good/bad maesltrom card is? for bwl and up. For mc obviously useless cause immune. iirc its bis until Hoj+DFT no? so HoJ+Card..can be wrong
stable wave
for me it sims slightly worse than blackhand's breadth (with my current gear). so i assume its not bad but HoJ/blackhand's breadth is probably better
coarse spire
ok cheers, what sim u using?
stable wave
the excell spreadsheet thats been posted many times here. you put in your gear and buffs you want and get an estimate of dps
if you scroll up it was actually posted last thursday
coarse spire
yeah ok thats the same then 🙂 ty
indigo parrot
guys is shadowcraft worth it for daggers/
signal ember
Yeah if you're planning on playing daggers, it's great.
frozen isle
+15 agility or crusader for on OH for Combat Dagger?
stable wave
for me the +15 agi and crus is 0.1% dps difference. so it might not be that relevant. @frozen isle
bronze geyser
I look at it as +15 agility is more dps average barely, crusader has higher potential for burst
that being said, I like +15 agi more, but guildee prefers crusader, it's nice to have equal options
raven snow
is hit above 9% really that much important?
id rather go crit items then hit
i got 16% hit
i feel its too much
bronze geyser
no, but it's a nice dps increase
I think someone broke down 1% crit and 1% hit to AP equivalent before, can't find the video but it was something like: 1% hit = 18 AP, 1% crit = 20 AP
also, your crit cap is determined by your hit chance
bronze geyser
yes, that's the idea, it's a rough estimate
bronze geyser
@raven snow can't find the video, but fiddling with stats on the sim spreadsheet tell me 1% hit = 18 AP (above 9% hit cap), and 1% crit = 20 AP (below crit cap) roughly in equivalent dps
raven snow
tysm
slim briar
If you full worldbuff. You need hit to utilize max potential from the crit you gain. Hit counts towards you’re critcap. Rogues need hit. We are not warriors ❤️ hence why every guild should prio items like DFT to rogues. (Well toss in that fury/prot MT) I assume you have 305 weapon skill and attacking from behind-;; 100%-24.8%-6%-40%+4.8%+hit%(16% for you) = 50. You capped at 50%crit (white attacks)
granite kettle
anyone know a good add on to track the guild bank via spreadsheets?
north light
hello im new to classic and i just hit level 28 and i want to learn my instant poison II but mmy trainer dosent have it does anyone now why
stable wave
@north light i think you have to complete a quest in order to learn and create poisons.
wowhead has a detailed guide for the rogue quest chain
granite kettle
anyone got a macro or easier way of marking lab packs and just trash in general for bwl? or do you do it all manually?
hushed laurel
We just mark a skull and let the hunters tag what they wanna kite themselves. Don't bother with goblins, can easily just mark which warlock dies first
indigo parrot
hey guys just wondering if this build is viable for raiding, its kinda a pve/pvp build for seal of fate, with prep and imp ambush so you can double vanish and clood blood during raids, ive heard its pretty decent, im not sure if improve backstab is a must for raiding though even as seal of fate. Here's a link: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/30532310502105--0502330303101
plucky nymph
no
indigo parrot
its not viable?
plucky nymph
Too many useless points for PVE.
But hey if it's good enough for you then so be it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plucky nymph
Worse than any Combat spec.
indigo parrot
yeah i know that but how much worse u think
plucky nymph
I cannot possibly know that.
plucky nymph
I thought this was daggers?
indigo parrot
it is what u mean seal of fate is daggers
plucky nymph
Seal Fate tends to be daggers.
indigo parrot
yeah
drowsy phoenix
we're not paladins, "seal fate" never had an "of" somewhere I dont get why so many people do that
hushed laurel
paladins became rogues in cata prepatch/cata, prolly happened then
plucky nymph
I just assume it's a language thing :3
brisk jay
Can someone link me the hunter discord
drowsy phoenix
@plucky nymph I have witnessed people with an otherwise clean record in regard to english diction utter "seal of fate"
plucky nymph
@drowsy phoenix 😐
river sand
Anyone have different info other than WoWheads combat dagger pre-raid BiS options? Easier to obtain options?
plucky nymph
I assume their options are basically Shadowcraft?
plucky nymph
Oh for weapons specifically.
river sand
Yeah, sorry. Daggers specifically.
plucky nymph
Heartseeker + Scarlet Kris seems fine, and both are BoE.
Other than that, the PVP daggers are all fine for MH.
river sand
Gotcha. Thanks @plucky nymph
dreamy marsh
Is shadowcraft the way to go for a set bonus? I remember reading that it was better than t1? But I am not sure how right that is. Trying to decide what to target. I am currently a bit of pre-bis and nightslayer.
oblique thorn
Atm no, u sacrifice abit too much imo
The 6-set bonus is rly nice tho
But 6 pieces is a bit too much
plucky nymph
For Horde Combat Swords
8pT0 = 1245
2pT2 (Helm+Pants) + 6pT0 = 1285
2pT2 (Helm+Pants) + 6pT1 = 1281
8pT1 = 1277
8pT2 = 1323
Tier 2 Clownsuit (All T2, T1 Shoulders+Gloves, SF Boots) = 1330
Values are relative and should not be taken literally but as a reference for potential changes in average DPS
raven snow
is there a crit cap based on how much hit i got?
raven snow
for 16% hit whats the cap?
raven snow
ty so much!
bronze geyser
@plucky nymph where did you find that info and do you have it for human swords?
rustic adder
I made this guide for my guildies on how I prep for raids to do as much as possible. Still got more to learn, but I think the info is pretty good!
plucky nymph
@bronze geyser Those are simply personal numbers from old sims done using Bloodmoons' spreadsheet.
bronze geyser
do you have that sheet?
plucky nymph
Yeah there are some options over on the other Discord;
Just remember to take every result with a huge fucking grain of salt because every different SIM will give you different numbers because math seems literally impossible for people stuck in 2006.
plucky nymph
It's more-so an issue that they wanna try and do the SIM with different variables and not something consistent that makes sense in a practical application.
Which, makes no sense.
hushed laurel
just roll a warrior. Fight Club has shit down to a fucking science
plucky nymph
But so do I? :3 I just really hate camping world buffs =\
Plus, I hear enough idiocy and nonsense from our warriors about that community 😐
plucky nymph
lol
hushed laurel
but, with some of the shit people ask them, i cant balme them sometimes
plucky nymph
We weren't even that bad when I moderated for EJ =\
Standing inside a shitstorm isn't something everyone is capable of weathering though so I can kinda get it.
hushed laurel
"Hey, im my guilds furyprot MT, but i get one shot by bosses because my gear is solid leather. anyway, should i use fiery or icey on my thunderfury?"
plucky nymph
Icy, too many things immune to or resistant to Fiery. Dumb question.
hushed laurel
it does work on raidbosses 
plucky nymph
How does Nefarian like Fiery 
hushed laurel
just put fiery on Tfury and icy on the Deathbringer you stole from your fury warriors
plucky nymph
ooo, good point.
Also, make sure to enchant your second Thunderfury with +55 Healing.
bronze geyser
Ty Miz!
plucky nymph
np GL in raid.
slim briar
I chatted a bit with some hostile person over a classic rogue discord. Got a bit confused over there. They seem to trust sims 100% has something changed ? 🙋♂️
@plucky nymph
plucky nymph
Yeah they're idiots.
Each SIM will give you the same number it previously gave you, so they're consistent, but they are not consistent between each other.
vapid hemlock
Is it really worth getting +8 agi atm given ZG is so close and the leg/shoulder rep is friendly and the requirements quite low?
plucky nymph
Nope.
runic lance
Finally got it
runic lance
yeah, it's the best simming weap i have atm unfortunately
drowsy phoenix
can you file a restraining order with "hotbar" as a valid reason
runic lance
i work within the mess well, i would clean it up, but then i'd have to relearn it and i'm lazy
plucky nymph
I mean do you REALLY use normal Runecloth Bandages? or are those the AV bandages or something?
runic lance
I actually do, if I don't I die a lot in raid, our healers like to heal pets instead of melee dps
cuz I don't wanna waste a big one all the time
hushed laurel
i heavy runecloth our tanks a lot. makes me feel like im doing my part 👍
raven snow
Hello guys! combat sword is the best spec for all phases of classic?
i mean for horde player
plucky nymph
No.
raven snow
seal of fate?
plucky nymph
No.
raven snow
what would it be then?
plucky nymph
Such a thing does not exist.
raven snow
I know that the best spec is the best used, but I was saying "theoretical" which one should be the best?
or are you just trolling xD
plucky nymph
There is no such thing as a spec that is the best for the entire duration of the game.
raven snow
is not like retail where you do not know what can happen,this is classic wow ..... everything is already preset
shadow tapir
You asked if there was a spec that was best in each phase, there isnt
cedar elk
There isn’t a best spec for all phases dude lmfao
shadow tapir
If you're asking what the best spec in each phase is then thats probably more doable
cedar elk
Also question: as Horde, so I have WF, does an Elemental Sharpening Stone in my OH effect my ability crit chance?
I have gold and I’m running SF even tho Combats better rn so that 2% would be sick if it did
Would definitely spend money on that over instant poison if it did
novel grove
Yes, offhand ESS will add to your overall crit chance.
cedar elk
Thank you! Definitely going to be spending some money on those for when I have world buffs too. Gotta go all out 💪🏽💪🏽
plucky nymph
Will be very easy to hit crit cap doing as such.
sand marlin
Hey I was wondering if being over hit for a rogue is better or worse?
I have a rogue with about 30.97 percent crit unbuffed and am trying to figure out if I should do my 12 percent hit build
plucky nymph
For Horde Sword, Hit is worth ~80% of Crit.
stable wave
also hit increases your crit cap doesn't it
plucky nymph
Yeah but that's only a consideration once you are hitting it.
Once you are hitting your crit cap the values for crit and hit change depending on whether you are or not at said cap.
carmine fulcrum
how important are the aged core leather cloves for dagger rogues, when playing dagger rogue (NOT SEAL OF FATE)? since we are getting 5 weapon skill from talent tree and going with more than 5 WS is not a big upgrade.
carmine fulcrum
wasnt sure about it, because i come from a warrior and any +WS above 5 is basically useless.
thats why i´m asking^^-.
sand marlin
Is there a sim for classic rogues atm
bronze geyser
Simming Spreadsheet (Excel for Macros): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VSxFOc6eFYyoF6X19SQEKd12CJriIdXl/view
wary drift
hey i was wondering what the preferred spec is for a level 29 twink
hushed laurel
not much m+ in classic
dusk dagger
oh wc haha
amber granite
How do I edit the sim spreadsheet? Trying to figure out the diff between Combat dagger with perd / CHT and combat swords CTS / BBlade
runic lance
save a copy to your pc in excel, at least that is what I did and can edit the whole thing
sour nymph
Is the spreadsheet updated for P4 yet?
bronze geyser
it has all the phases already in it I think, just have to check them in the Gear tab
silk halo
Any rogues that go for FR setup on geddon?
plucky nymph
no
runic lance
Better than the gutgore ripper at least til one day another raid weap drops. but knowing my guilds luck, that'll be another 4 months
raven snow
Hello All - Curious about fist spec and wanted to get some pointers. Picked up a claw of the black last night. Have a brutality blade for my OH.
Was the spec I was thinking but wanted to hear any and all input.
plucky nymph
I. NEED. A. DAGGER.
drowsy phoenix
I need a guild and WCB to get that much pink
drowsy phoenix
I dont think I've ever had a stellar nef parse because any time I get to him with WBs I get fear SF cleaved during call
hushed laurel
we had a warrior pull on vael this week and lost our buffs, made us sad
runic lance
I haven't lived through nef yet. I LIP, Evasion, everything, fucker kills me every rogue class call
drowsy phoenix
think the only things that are gonna save you for when that fear hits are a GSPP and a flask of the titans
sand marlin
Can anyone help me with the rogue Sim? Having trouble figuring it out.
At the moment I have
Bloodfang hood +8 Agi
Onyxia Tooth
Night slayer Shoulders
Night slayer Chestpiece + 3 Stats
Cape of the Black Baron +3 Agi
Bloodfang Bracers +9 Str
Gutgore Ripper +5 Superior Striking
Alcors Sunrazor +15 Agility
Aged Core Leather Gloves +7 Agi
Bloodfang Belt
Bloodfang Pants +8 Agi
Mongoose Boots +7 Agi
Master Dragon Slayers Ring
Band of Accuria
Black hands Breath
Hand of Justice
I'm just looking to see what would be better for parsing
oblique thorn
Is it worth being over yellow hit cap?
stable wave
its a dps increase if thats what you are asking @oblique thorn
granite kettle
my loot council is saying I dont need DFT because I have maldrath and 13 hit, I want to replace my HOJ, usually not crit capped- what do you guys think? They have been giving them to feral tank or war dps
cedar jewel
Any reason why they chose a fury warrior @granite kettle ?
Feral tank makes sense, maybe even warrior MT, but after that it should go to rogues
Fury don’t benefit as much, hunters only get 8attack power every other fight
granite kettle
Fury because they don't get as much loot, I've gotten all rogue loot basically u can get minus the vael dagger and the boots from nef, so I think the main reason it is ok with me but Im still a bit sad is that at least the wars get something
cedar jewel
Well you cannot base it on the number of gear you get
That’s not how optimal gearing works
Rogues replace their gear every tier while fury stick with some items for several phases
granite kettle
when u deal with 40 people i guesss u cant do optimizing
if u can lucky u i guess
keeping 40 people happy is actually super annoying
cedar jewel
But diamond flask / blackhands > dft for fury
plucky nymph
The way we've handled Loot Council for the entirety of Classic is to be extremely open about how choices and why we made them. If people don't like the choices they can leave or not get through the interview process.
@runic lance If you guild isn't turning NEF around for Rogue Class Call propose that. Even if there's only 2 Rogues in the raid the game is too much to lose.
hushed laurel
yah, and turning nef isnt hard or honestly a big change. no one should be standing behind him, and you obviously dont turn during a sflame. your tank just runs through him and blammo
plucky nymph
Yeah and I don't think that flame can line up with the class call, and even if it did he just runs past the side where no one is and there's never any risk.
hushed laurel
i think our rogues do stopattack on rogue class call so they dont get parryhasted cleaved to death, but, meh, usually fine
runic lance
They are turning, just not before a few of us die, and has been me every week except one, went back and checked and I have lived through it once, lol
woven crescent
hey is there any docs.google for classic rogue?
regal axle
hey guys quick question for Rogue trinket, when fully buffed with ony/rend/dm/song/darkmoon, do you keep blackhands bredth or do you put the 2% hit trinket? also has anyone got any stats on the darkmoon fair trinket maelstorm?
plucky nymph
Maelstrom is bad, if you are at crit cap (34% + hit) use DM trinket, otherwise use Blackhands.
plucky nymph
If that's the hit you have, sure.
New CharacterClassicStats even does the math for you.
sand marlin
So if I have 12% hit then my crit cap is 42%?
raven snow
Which horde rogue races do you think look the most asthetically pleasing with tier sets?
I'm thinking male orc
I'm having a hard time deciding which race to choose
cedar jewel
@sand marlin he explained perfectly it’s 34% + your hit%
So if you have 12% hit, your crit cap would be 46%
fair cedar
anyone with full t2 with WC logs here? Im curious how often the 8p bonus procs..wowhead and shadowpanther.net have different BiS guides D:
fair cedar
thank you!
frozen isle
1,16% proc chance doesn't seem like a lot on the 8/8 t2 bonus
fair cedar
its 2-3% of his total dmg, he did wear 8p after Firemaw
drowsy phoenix
what's the equip slot for MH if I want to make a macro?
plucky nymph
/equipslot 16
prisma river
so brutailty blade and corehound tooth off hand?
plucky nymph
If that's what you have sure.
drowsy phoenix
ty
steady shadow
Any good simming bots or sites? For classic?
delicate badger
Are there any other bis list for rogues except the wowhead / icy veins ones?
west scarab
@delicate badger Shadowpanthered.net is rly good. The only BiS that changes with tomorrow's patch is the Off-hand sword is better than BB for Sword Rogues, and better than Maladath for Humans
Btw wanted to post a vid of a lot of tricks most rogues, don't know ❤️
delicate badger
@west scarab but acording to that website it still says CTS and maladath
thats a bit confusign
How come its better than maladath for humans
because of the AP?
bronze geyser
the main benefit of maladath is bumping weapon skill up from 305, but humans are already at 310 swords with combat
because of that, maladath for humans is a DPS stick with no stats, and the 40 AP from Warblade of Hakkari (OH) makes it better than maladath for humans
delicate badger
Okey
I guess that makes sense
Hmm yea I just simmed it
And its actually a pretty bunch of an improvent
im surprised its not really listed on any other bis lists
vocal hornet
@plucky nymph so have you guys cleared AQ already?
and hows it going in classic land.
plucky nymph
That would be impressive considering that's like 3mon out at least.
vocal hornet
did you need a full 40 for BWL? or is it joke content these days
i remember that stuff being so hard. probably cause we took friends and bads and had horrible pcs with 12 fps.
plucky nymph
Firemaw was the only thing people should have had issues on, and we did it with like 30 people or something the first time.
We're down to like 50min and still only 5th on the server 😐 need more R14 DPS I guess.
hushed verge
silk halo
Anybody knows if ZG trinket shares cd with tea?
plucky nymph
It's a trinket 😐
turbid nebula
Blastershot or Gurubashi Dwarf Destroyer? 1% crit or +30AP?
raven snow
Hello guys I’m human so should I keep maladath in OH and Chromatic Blade in MH ? Or Brutality in OH ?
bronze crystal
and here I stand with 4 months of full cleaning of Ony & MC & BWL with my dal'rends.
(obvisouly BWL since P3 but still)
silk halo
@raven snow they sim very similar in dps so if you get either on as a oh, but yeah brutality might be easier to get tbh
@turbid nebula you would want strikers but 2nd best would be the 30ap gun
turbid nebula
@silk halo thank you
raven snow
@raven snow they sim very similar in dps so if you get either on as a oh, but yeah brutality might be easier to get tbh
@silk halo Actually i've goy MH = Brutality OH = Maladath. I'm the next in the liste to loot the Chromatic
granite kettle
anyone know why acuria is so good for rogue compared to don julios? Am I losing a lot of dmg by not having it? My guild is giving them to tanks and feral, I see dragonslayer ring + acuria on top rogues- I am swords cts/ mal/ no dft
bronze geyser
If you convert hit, AP, and crit to equivalent AGI values (MAEP), it's easier to compare them, as on shadowpanther.net - shadowpanther has MAEP values of: Accuria 36 - Don Julio's 32
Accuria sims about 2 DPS higher than Don Julio's for me, I think the big difference is that Accuria has 16 agi while Don Julio's just has 16 AP
pliant sluice
Hey guys
do you know an addon that could display the number of remaining components needed for certain spells on the spell bar
like, pretty much vanish for instance
bronze geyser
Here's a Weak Aura that does that https://wago.io/4XUkWXX4N
cursive snow
whats the best food now since the dumpling came out still squid?
plucky nymph
@cursive snow They are effectively tied.
cursive snow
between squid and dumpling?
plucky nymph
ye
pliant sluice
@bronze geyser not quite what i was looking for :/
bronze geyser
Can't say I know of any then
pliant sluice
i saw some guys who would have the game display the number of required items remaining directly on the spell bar
thanks for helping tho
i appreciate
bronze geyser
oh wait in that case I might
forgot about this addon, missed that you wanted it on action / spell bars
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/reagentcount
@pliant sluice
sudden phoenix
Anyone know at what point 1% crit is better than x amount of AP?
Eg 1% crit is better than 15 AP but 16 AP is better than 1% crit
bronze geyser
@sudden phoenix It's hard to give 1 value for that, as it changes based on current spec, gear and buffs, but see below: should be between 20-23 AP for daggers, and 26-27 AP for swords.
Here's what I got from using the current simming spreadsheet:
P3 BIS (world buffs, consumes, etc):
Swords: 1% Crit = 10.21 DPS / 27 AP = 10.44 DPS
Daggers: 1% Crit = 8.55 DPS / 23 AP = 8.77 DPS
Pre-raid BIS (only raid buffs):
Swords: 1% Crit = 7.32 DPS / 26 AP = 7.50 DPS
Daggers: 1% Crit = 5.33 DPS / 20 AP = 5.39 DPS
sudden phoenix
Sweet ty
drowsy phoenix
do we know the damage formula for hemorrhage?
drowsy phoenix
is it even dependent on weapon damage?
dense brook
So what's the verdict on HoJ viability with spell batching? I know this isn't a new topic but tried searching here and couldn't find much in regards to DFT. Shadowpanther is listing Hand of Justice lower than Blackhand's Breadth now (although only by 1 MAEP). Is HoJ + DFT still bis? Or should I be running DFT + BB?
plucky nymph
BhB for daggers until crit cap, HoJ for swords until Earthstrike or JB.
dense brook
I'm running Claw of the Black Drake, is there any difference there?
plucky nymph
Nope.
dense brook
Thanks mate
runic lance
So I just won perds tonight cuz it's off-spec now and I'm swords, I have CTS and Blackguard. From the excel spreadsheet they're similar, but since I already have agi on blackguard, should I just put the +5dmg on perds and bag it only to be used on vael, or agi/crusader and oh it for now til I get a BB, warblade or maladath?
light surge
Im new to rogue and im playing every monday 5 hours straight with two friends. Im rogue(undead), they are warrior(orc) and priest(undead). We are planning on going dungeon 80% of our leveling. Right now im lvl 30 combat sword spec. But im not sure if thats the most dmg effecient build if we dungeon all the way. Would you recommend going combat sword? Or would daggers backstab be better?
bronze geyser
@runic lance the difference is so small (+4 dps w/ Blackguard over Perd's OH) that I'd just use blackguard offhand normally, and perd's main hand for vael / dagger spec with +5dmg
@light surge In general in Classic, combat swords just beats combat daggers, especially when leveling - easier to get better swords (SM/Maraudon, etc.), usually more damage, and easier to use. Daggers can still be pretty fun to level as if you're really set on it though.
runic lance
@bronze geyser ty good sir/ma'am
light surge
@bronze geyser Thanks. I think I will give combat daggers a try, just to see the difference in playstyle.
frigid sierra
Hi, first time posting in here! I've scrolled back quite a way and havent found any info pertaining to this. Is seal fate dagger spec viable over combat daggers? Or is the gear not there yet.
main fog
Depends a lot on rng and you also tend to rely a lot on world buffs, so, if you die and lose those buffs, your viability decreases substantially.
I am experimenting with an early seal fate daggers build as of current and I am having a blast with it
If you have good rng and land crits, you’ll top DPS. If bad rng, you’ll be on the lower end. It’s the rng that keeps it fun for me but overall yes I say it’s viable if you can manage 30% crit chance unbuffed while also maintaining yiur hit%
You also have access to cold blood so it can almost be viewed as a semi pvp/pve build.
I’m at about 68% crit chance (30% imp backstab) + ony + mongoose buff + raid buffs
@frigid sierra
frigid sierra
thank you for the response @main fog ! ive been really itching to try it, but i didnt know if it was worth it yet. Im currently combat daggers, and if I respec my crit would be at 29% with my current gear. Maybe i should wait to get a couple more pieces of gear before i try switching.
frigid sierra
This guide is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much
vocal hornet
Have they said how the Classic expac process will go? will they just roll it into TBC in a year ?
signal ember
Nothing yet
I'm hoping for another fresh start but wouldn't mind taking my current rogue to 70
delicate badger
What is the second best MH for sword rogues after CTS?
raven snow
Did you think that the Dagharn Eye in ZG is better than our T2 ?
sleek shadow
cant seem to find any support regarding the elemental sharpning stones..
ive been using them because instant poison is kinda trash and deal close to no dmg
but im now being told it the crit % only works on the offhand(when applied to offhand) and doesnt affect mh or my abilities
but when reading wowhead it states that they stack and for them to stack they require to work on more than just the weap its active on?
do anyone have some info supporting any of these claims some facts somewhere?
if it werent stacking i would imagine u should be able to see ur crit chance for both weaps not a combined crit on ur char for example
bronze crystal
Did you think that the Dagharn Eye in ZG is better than our T2 ?
@raven snow no
What is the second best MH for sword rogues after CTS?
@delicate badger Vis'kag but some say this item does not exist since we never see it drop
raven snow
Haha Vis Kag... I saw this weapon 2 time... When I was with my reroll 😢
delicate badger
@bronze crystal Haha okay fair enough 😄
oblique thorn
Are daggers better than swords from aq40+naxx?
raven snow
Fun to play is better... actually I don’t like daggers gameplay so even it’s better than sword, I would don’t respe
bronze crystal
if by "better" you mean "will i have more chances to loot some and will these improved daggers be better than the swords i have now", then yes. If not, no.
the extra swing is just too sweet
and if you are horde, swords are even better with WF
plucky nymph
You also don't fight with literally everyone for swords as Horde.
raven snow
is there a classic sim website yet?
oblique thorn
I am alli, and I sadly have alot of competition for swords XD
tame wren
bronze geyser
@sleek shadow based on sims and memory, elemental sharpening stone just increases all crit by 2% and should stack fine, but windfury/instant or instant/instant are both more dps (and cheaper), instant does more than you'd think overall - even seal fate sims lower with ele sharp stones
Source for someone testing overall crit: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/dlngo2/elemental_sharpening_stones_adding_to_overall/
timid lotus
@main fog hey I made that haha!
main fog
Yep!
raven snow
Jin’s set is Better than precisia+quick strike ring 😳
plucky nymph
Precisia?
raven snow
Accuria sorry (precisia in French)
plucky nymph
ahhh
timid lotus
But Accuria and Nef head Ring are better than Jin Set I believe. It’s all very close though.
plucky nymph
Dons+MDR is much better >_>
drowsy phoenix
lmao I've lost accuria so many times I'm getting jin set first most likely
runic lance
I've seen like 4 accurias and all the tanks have it now, so next one I may be able to slurp but got the dons+mdr myself for now
raven snow
If I’m right Jin set give 0,5%crit + 16 AP than accuria+quick strike. Only lost 1%hit.
final quail
Is dal set significantly better than sword of zeal/mirah?
plucky nymph
@final quail Very close.
plucky nymph
GL and a lot of people share that stance considering the state of doing UBRS randomly.
drowsy phoenix
I miss when people wanted to do dungeons
signal ember
I miss when we had alliance on my server
Pretty sure I'm the only ally that world PvP on a 99% population of horde.
raven snow
@plucky nymph great ! Where did you find this ?
raven snow
What are the best roque abilities for low level?
I'm level 17 and use these https://gyazo.com/e3c476c95b903ce78af3c7b837572126
gritty goblet
mizerok still exists O_o
vocal seal
you should be using the best swords you can afford (white vendor or low level greens/deadmines weps) .. you should already have slice and dice
sand marlin
So I wanted to know im a geared dagger rogue besides bloodrenched pads (if you dont have boots of the shadowflame) is anything else in zg bis for dagger rogues
plucky nymph
@gritty goblet
raven snow
Mize doesn't exist
daring coyote
just got claw of the black drake and want to go hemo for pvp. any tips tricks guides etc? never played hemo spec before
plucky nymph
Get used to the new cost of abilities.
daring coyote
currently ive been hitting servant of grol for the past 30 mins trying to do that and get weap skill up
the first decision i had to make was if i wanted to use 5 ns pieces for 110 eng or not
i went with yes
main fog
@daring coyote so I found out that if you press the Hemo button during an enemy encounter, you’ll do damage
Pretty crazy huh
barren junco
question, how many "HIT" rating I need for dagger rogue on gear?
main fog
At least 9
barren junco
got it, anything over 9 will that benifit the dps? or i just get more crit after I reach 9
plucky nymph
62% of my damage done here is Melee, Hit holds ~80% of the value as Crit as SWORDS. Daggers is less but still good.
Not THAT much less though it seems >_>
Even on Vael Melee can be 30% of your damage as DAGGERS.
Broodlord as DAGGERS.
So it's less of your DMG overall, meaning HIT past cap will account for less value than Crit.
plucky nymph
You're probably gonna have to have more than that if you have WB as Daggers since ZG is out.
plucky nymph
If you are at or over yeah, just use Seal or Rune of the Guard Captain.
median isle
Hey guys, does anyone have experience with the meleetrinket From the Heart of Hakkar? For example in short flights like Vael? maybe its pretty strong there. greets
median isle
i got the trinket myself and will test it on sunday. i report you the outcome.
bronze crystal
seems very bad compared to blackhand +2% crit
I won the heart of hakkar yesterday, then offered it to a cloth caster because except if the fight lasts 30 secondes it just seems very bad (you might gain 400-500 total damage input with it)
molten forge
@west scarab Self promotion is frowned upon 🙂
deep lagoon
I've been watching this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLD12oUwJoE&feature=youtu.be) to learn about my crit cap. According to this, the formula for crit cap is: CRIT_CAP = 29.4% + HIT. I've read through other recent posts and some mention 30%, 34% etc... Which is correct?
Assumptions: Dual wield, white hit, level 63 boss, hitting from behind, 305 wep skill
cedar jewel
100 - Glance% - Dodge% - Block% - Parry% - Miss% + CritSup + Precision + GearHit%
median isle
@bronze crystal but when you got raidbuffed 40+% crit, it might me useful. Only when you play Combat dagger!
oblique thorn
I've heard someone mention that hemo-spec becomes better in naxx? Can someone confirm that and maybe post a link with talent points? 🙂
raven snow
How am I supposed to backstab an enemy when im alone
granite kettle
anyone know if there is a way to target all the lab packs with mark them with a macro? i did /target <monster name> tm 8 but it didnt select the monster
plucky nymph
@deep lagoon This is base, all math works off this;
@oblique thorn I am not sure that we can tell that at this point considering it's as far behind as it is atm. On top of that many claims from pServers are working on different combat math, and memories of that time tend to be skewed without being able to know for certain all of the variables required to make a final assessment.
@raven snow Gouge ~> Backstab work but requires basically all of your energy. You will be Sinister Striking when you cannot Backstab.
raven snow
Heart of hakkar is for caster only (lock)
silk halo
can i get claw of the black drake into the simming sheet somehow, cause by standard it isn't there
oblique thorn
I am dagger rogue guys, I am hit capped, with +4 on gear and + 5 from talents. But I won t2 shoulders and if I equip them I get 3set bonus
Should I keep tier 1 shoulders or t2 ?
oblique thorn
Nvm just got the t2 chest aswell XD
tall lantern
Guys is there a dps simulation tool for rogues? Warrior player here, sorry if it's a common question
quasi path
Hi 🙂 Is the equipment the same when I'm spé Daggers? Or are there some small differences? (ex: critical strikes) And for weapons, do you agree with: Perdition / Core Hound Tooth? Thanks for illuminat my Path.. shadow colleagues! ^^
drowsy flare
The spreadsheet values Baron cape over Firemaw cape, is that generally accepted as correct?
plucky nymph
Zandalar WB is very powerful.
silk halo
warchiefs doesn't stack with any other stam buff right?
cause the sheet counts is at pure "stamina" and not just health so kings+zg+dm tribute gives extra effect on the buff
but that has to be wrong
indigo parrot
would anyone be able to tell me if a 21/8/22 or 30/0/21 build is better for pve im daggers btw
i cant get the spreadsheet to work so im hoping someone might know
bronze geyser
was kind of curious so I plugged in talents in the sim sheet to see how it sims for max dps (max world buffs, consumes, BIS gear, etc.):
Combat daggers (15/31/5): 1231.03 dps
PvE Seal Fate (30/16/5): 1085.31 dps (-145.71)
(21/8/22): 1005.66 dps (-225.36)
(30/0/21): 981.54 dps (-249.48)
indigo parrot
thanks
so my spec right now will do more dps on average than 30/0/21 then
interesting
ripe cradle
Any classic rogue number crunchers online?
ripe cradle
i tried to do a thing and well...
i made two things... im not sure if either is worth anything
both are sword based, with a dagger in the bag for macro swapping so i can ambush
ripe cradle
Anyone?
plucky nymph
@mild hornet Whaddaya want?
raven snow
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 249 days 20 hours 15 minutes 25 seconds
plucky nymph
feelsbadman
mild hornet
plucky nymph
THE LONE WEEB!! GETTEM!!!
hidden basin
You guys grinding for the trinket from the quest chain you get with Cenarion Hold Exalted - Earthstrike?
Or maybe I should avoid the very grindy adventure for now and get exalted when AQ 40 releases.
plucky nymph
Minor upgrade, uninterested until the rep. gain buff later on.
drowsy flare
where do people stand on +5 wep dmg vs crusader for MH daggers?
spreadsheet/etc comes down on the side of crusader
alpine badger
How big is the difference between Sword / Daggers? Got both AV Daggers now but crappy swords, so tend to go Daggers, also both Daggers go Crusader? Or Offhand with Aggy?
alpine badger
Does Spellhit increase pickpocket chance? Like to not resist?
hidden basin
280ap for 20 seconds is only a minor upgrade?