wow-general

[stuck birch]

i guess ur right

[sour patrol]

Now that that's settled, find the pieces of Jesus

[left crow]

Last time I played a spec I didn't like was outlaw start of Shadowkands because back then assa sucked donkey balls imo

[stuck birch]

yeah im currently right to figure out how to track assination apex talants buff

but i was told u cant

[vital gorge]

[left crow]

You refresh envenom as often as you can, then when it drops the Apex gives you a little consolation energy. Rinse, repeat, don't worry about it.

[scarlet berry]

Looking like any meta shroud skips in M+ this season?

[sour patrol]

I played Mage for Dragonflight after having been Rogue since Wrath.
Went back to Rogue in TWW.

[left crow]

There an awful lot of stealth detection trash in all dungeons, I won't count on it.

[static epoch]

wouldn't they need a horse for that

[scarlet berry]

Why do they do this.. its like our only M+ utility...

[sour patrol]

Also balls

[static epoch]

steel ones at that

[sour patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/steel-bal-run-jojo-jonny-jjba-sbr-gif-27442483

[static epoch]

they don't care
TWW basically showcased this
S1, Shroud only really useful for old BfA/SL dungeons if at all, new dungeons designed for no skips
S2, Shroud only really useful for old BfA/SL dungeons, new dungeons designed for no skips, Floodgate skip wasn't Shroud-based, Motherlode counts raised high enough Shroud skips were highly optional at best
S3, Shroud useless because required count was raised so high, you couldn't skip anything meaningful in HoA, and other dungeons had nothing to skip to begin with, Floodgate skip was obsoleted

they really don't want people to skip packs anymore

[formal aurora]

its so lame

[scarlet berry]

sounds like rogue should be compensated with something better than 3% DR poison..

[formal aurora]

why bring a rogue anyway

[bright otter]

paladin has the same 3%dr

[slow totem]

Wow down and for how long?

[limber mauve]

Which rogue spec statistically is going to be the prog one? New rogue here and I've no idea which spec to play in raid this season 😭

[rotund patrol]

sin rogue because of execute

statistically

[tough swallow]

there is no statistic

a statistic relies on data from the game, we have no data from the raid ^^

[rotund patrol]

I think statistically means "historically" here

[tough swallow]

all 3 could be good, sub got a hefty nerf in cleave and the raid is mostly cleave

[tough swallow]

historically over which period of time?

[limber mauve]

Statistically was meant more for the sake of not personal preference 😛

[tough swallow]

df/tww often had subtlety strong early but the spec was sometimes the worse dps in game after a few weeks

[rotund patrol]

let's say post-legion

[tough swallow]

legion and bfa only had one raid spec

assassiantion

shadowlands was a mix

season 1 was assassiantion

season 2 was "whatever, all 3 are good"

seaosn 3 was "you rather not play rogue"

[limber mauve]

I've heard that assa was mostly going to be the prog spec due to its ease of use

[tough swallow]

All 3 are now easy

sub got simplified heavily

[narrow spear]

you also tend to lose less damage as sin running around doing mechanics

[limber mauve]

Thats true 😄

[tough swallow]

thats true

subtlety offers good burst damage and strong target swap

outlaw has strong sustained damage

[limber mauve]

because generally nothing is a dot right?

[tough swallow]

both outlaw/assassiantion potentially are better in cleave now, tho if thats the case, its very much forced on players

[obsidian sable]

Subtlety had been fun but I miss assassin. It just feels wrong right now though.

[tough swallow]

assassiantion has funnel and execute as a niche on top

tho whats "best" will heavily depend on how fast adds die

and how easy/hard the raid is tuning wise

so, we will see later today

(or tomorrow for fellow eu players)

[limber mauve]

Yes, I've got my eyes on the log section already 👀

Thanks for all your input and info guys ! 🙂

[tough swallow]

just keep one thing in mind

day 1 log data is incomplete

people don't have tier set

play inefficient

[limber mauve]

and splits I guess

[tough swallow]

that too

gear levels in general are low

so it takes a bit to aggregate to something more reaosnable

[narrow spear]

is it really a new expansion if we don't overreact to early numbers?

[limber mauve]

Got it 🙂

[tough swallow]

let the roller coaster of "we are so doomed" followed by "we are soo back" continue

[limber mauve]

hahaha

[long ice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1365042674842992660/9l2o5h-ezgif.com-reverse.gif

stay strapped

[lucid eagle]

According to that wowhead post about the new delve nemesis, the boss has fat white hits , this will be a fun one… I don’t want to break out my DK to get it done

[wicked talon]

Ahahah im new here who's dave?

[long ice]

its from a reddit post where someone had their non-wow-playing gf name all the specs based on their icons

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1hnfw22/i_asked_my_non_gamer_wife_to_guess_these_wow_spec/

[wicked talon]

Aaa, yes I recall 😄

[inland gale]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[tough swallow]

dave is ready

[long ice]

dave's so back

[haughty kelp]

we have optics on sub side boys

giant tier dps gain..

also tell ur evoker friends

also anyone can confirm or deny for rogue?

[novel pewter]

Ooof.

[sour patrol]

[deft gulch]

For someone that is I say “above decent” at all specs rogue for someone that does both Raid and M+ who would you say is better sub or outlaw?

[novel pewter]

We'll have a better idea shortly.

[deft gulch]

Awesome I’m really hoping outlaw can be competitive it’s my fav spec but seems like even after the AoE nerfs sub seems to be superior but other people are telling me otherwise so I wanted to check in with yall and get yalls opinion on it

[novel pewter]

It depends. OL good if things stay alive. If they fall over sub is much better.

Ol better from 1-3 targets by a lot.

Really depends on mob tuning and what ever other spec is doing.

[deft gulch]

So by that logic you would want to play outlaw then in higher keys then right? Sub is only good rn cause everything is dying so fast?

[novel pewter]

Likely.

Again probably depends on a bunch of factors.

[deft gulch]

The stat squish probably didn’t do it any favors either I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it goes

[mellow pilot]

Tier is basically starting, we'll have answer really shortly once warcraft loga starts having more data

[alpine bridge]

Since Outlaw was released in the early days, i felt like i wasn’t even playing rogue anymore. And for PvE i felt like Assa had the best gameplay logic (since the old days, keeping Deadly up, Min/Maxing Envenoms etc …).

[deft gulch]

I really dislike assassination if I can help it I want to stay as far away from the spec as possible 🤣🤣

[sleek herald]

is there any reason to do the 6 chapters of "The war of Light and Shadow"?

[sage oyster]

Probably later

[sleek herald]

no benefit rn?

[sage oyster]

If it's main campaign I'd always blitz it just in case

That shit always comes up

As of RN no though

[novel pewter]

Outside of flavor outlaw is honestly pretty similar to Combat.

Rtb a bit different, but like. Really.

[sleek herald]

thanks mate 🙂

[mellow pilot]

Combat was pressing the same 3/4 skills without a thought

[sage oyster]

It really was just white damage, the experience

[novel pewter]

I guess BtE is relatively new and then there's the added one proc for pistol shot. But it's not like exaggeratedly different. Idk.

Maybe I'm out to lunch.

100% feels like the same class to me.

[mellow pilot]

Pistol shot, to me, killed the feeling I had towards the spec

[daring sundial]

Ok so I'm trying to get someone to craft farstriders mercy and I have no idea how the crafting orders work. I have the basic materials but there's a bunch of extra shit I can add to it and idk if I need any of it

[mellow pilot]

You want to probably add the embellishment and the missive

[daring sundial]

Which ones? There are a bunch of options for each

Are the dawncrests important?

[mellow pilot]

Missive - stats that will be placed in the weapon

[mellow pilot]

Dawncrests is the currency you use to upgrade your items

You don't use crests to craft the main base of the item, only if you want to add in the heroic/mythic enchanted crest (increases the maximum item level)

What most people do is ignore the heroic enchanted crest and go straight to mythic enchanted crest

[daring sundial]

Gotcha so I can add those later

[mellow pilot]

Yes with recrafts

[daring sundial]

Huh ok

I didn't see the recommended craft section of the guide. Guess I didn't scroll far enough

This crafting order system is weird

[mellow pilot]

It is weird for those who didn't interact with it so far

[haughty kelp]

sub seems good on these fights noice

[mellow pilot]

I find it straight forward

[daring sundial]

I haven't played retail since cata

[mellow pilot]

It changed in Dragonflight

So basically you can ask other people to craft your purple items

You give them the materials required and a fee and they craft whatever you need!

[daring sundial]

So how do you recraft?

[mellow pilot]

You can also place these 'workorders' in the public section but oh man ... The odds of the crafter making your item max rank is small (crafted items have levels)

[daring sundial]

Get all of the same shit again or is it like reforging your existing item

[mellow pilot]

You have to be social and ask in trade chat for a X item crafter

Exactly as you said

Instead of asking 30 materials + sparks, it asks for 10 items only

I believe you already know what npc it is to make work orders, correct?

[daring sundial]

Yep

I've been selling alchemy orders

But crafting gear seems different

And idk what I'm doing with alchemy orders tbh

[mellow pilot]

@noble kestrel is a professional crafter, if you ask him nicely he'll surely help you understand the system a bit better

https://x.com/i/status/2033967057352495170

Yes "Remi" Chef (@Remiireee)

Found the Housing weekly

X · Mar 17, 2026, 6:01 PM

https://x.com/i/status/2033992042678731225

Icy Veins (@icyveins)

Midnight's first Delve Nemesis just went live — 30 free Hero Dawncrests on your first kill, a cosmetic helm, a mount for soloers, and a Fabled title for the fastest 4,000. Here's everything you need to know. 🔥 https://t.co/vILy7pVQTp #warcraft #midnight

X · Mar 17, 2026, 7:41 PM

Free resources for everyone doing ez content

[tough swallow]

not sure how easy it is

[mellow pilot]

If it is anything like TWW is a fair fight, so I'll assume they did a good job again

(please prove me wrong if necessary)

[twilit sequoia]

which one for sub?

[daring sundial]

Do weapon oils stack with poisons in retail? I come from classic so this may be a stupid question

[sinful ruin]

ive just been put on rogue last minute and i cant see if theres alr a spec spreadsheet for the raids somewhere?

[rare solar]

Poisons dont go on weapons so yeah

[spare vine]

why do i always get duplicate rewards for hunts

2 hunts, same 2 items 3 weeks in a row

[mellow pilot]

Unlucky

[spare vine]

thats crazy

[novel pewter]

I got the same dagger 4 times from hard. 😂

[novel pewter]

Heroic looks kinda hard, tbh.

[twilit sequoia]

been doin m0s with the supposed S+ classes and they dont even get close to my dps

rogues are doin just fiineeee

[mellow pilot]

Yes because m0 is a fantastic metric

[neon glen]

I've been killing normal mobs in eversong and rogues are blasting S+ classes

[waxen canyon]

is delve level capped or can you reach delve journey 3 today?

[stone mural]

awwye

[sour patrol]

It's like I never left

[rare solar]

we had a guy in EU last expansion that asked if it was okay to play boomkin like every day

I'd do my weekly delves and he'd be there talking about how he's from a rural town and insecure about playing boomkin

[sour patrol]

It's been the same shit on Mal'ganis for years

We don't mature

[rare solar]

Delve chat is fun tho, better than raid chat tbh

[sour patrol]

I had to work today, only got to do LFR and a MO before raid night

[rare solar]

I dont even have the new content yet

I did get the world boss kill that they now disabled for the next 4 hours until reset

[sour patrol]

Why

[steel raptor]

probably because it wasn't intended to spawn 6 hours earlier

[sour patrol]

Oh, on EU?

[rare solar]

Yeah im EU

[steel raptor]

yeah, got the trinket like 1h ago

[sour patrol]

[steel raptor]

curious if I can do it again tomorrow

[sour patrol]

(jk)

[rare solar]

Same, its not even an upgrade for me lmao

Even with mastery

[steel raptor]

it was for me because I've been lazy but I wouldn't be surprised if a blue trinket is better

had 220 ilvl trinkets

[rare solar]

I got 2 m0 ones, double dmg proc on 240 is better than stats or the void lust one

Not by much but still

[ornate nest]

ugh, are m0 same difficulty as before ?

[mellow pilot]

probably a bit harder

[ornate nest]

Interesting I cant see any post regarding it

[mellow pilot]

pre season awards veteran

season awards champion

[ornate nest]

Just watched some streamer cherrypicking 240ilvl people so figured maybe theres a difficultu bump

ye i guess

[willow wing]

Is Raidbots bugged atm? Its saying like 38k for ST 226 ilvl but the ingame damage meter is saying thats basically impossible.

[mellow pilot]

are you simming with consumables / raid buffs?

[willow wing]

Agh no I just realized its Blizzards Damage Tracker thats the issue

Back to details

[sour patrol]

After 3 bosses

No one wanted helm
Only one that can use agi daggers
Won tier shoulder roll
Rolled OS for fist because no one wanted for MS

If I get another slow weapon it may be a sign to learn Outlaw

[spark eagle]

Most important patch note of all time

[sour patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/vnc-vanitas-vanitas-no-carte-case-study-vanitas-anime-gif-9712849541894986820

[outer pilot]

what do you guys think about another system in crafting where maybe lets say, once a week? You can take a weapon and change it by recrafting. Say a dagger into a fist weapon, axe, sword, mace and vice versa. Maybe even turn two one handed weapons into a two hander and again vice versa. Weapon does not keep any enchants.

[sour patrol]

I'm pretty much only Assassination though, so only dagger

DAGGER IS DAGGER

[shell sinew]

anyone know a crafting discord for requests, or someone here able to do leather wrists?

[quasi venture]

real rog use daggie 😌

[shell sinew]

i have it already

[quasi venture]

:>

id make u wrist but i put all my points in belt 🙁

wrist next week maybe

i have to see if ppl still want it

if they dont idk maybe start down the igenuity thingy

[shell sinew]

according to wowhead, its dagger/wrist for crafted, so id assume they should want

[quasi venture]

ya hopefully demand is still there!

i was able concless+embellish a belt earlier so that felt p good

does anyone know how many crafting knowledges u get from the little treasures if ur caught up?? is it just one

like the ones inside the leaf wrapped packages etc

nvm wowprofs says 2 per week!

[sour patrol]

[hollow cape]

can you cloak this off, or cloak to not get the absorb?

[sour patrol]

Raid keeps failing on dragon fear

[hollow cape]

yeah ours kept getting it to the face

[tribal ember]

Is there a lockout for loot LFR?

[hybrid elm]

Im torn between outlaw and sub. which will be better for both raid and M+. i dont want to have trouble finding groups

[quiet apex]

there's still 3 more weeks of tuning, but it's looking more and more like the raid is going to favor daggers

[hybrid elm]

M+?

[stuck birch]

sorry for the noob question but does the gold arcanoweave lining have a higher proc stat? or does it just change the difficulty of the recipe?

[quiet apex]

anything can happen on tuesday though

since M+ isn't out yet, no one can really answer that

honestly it's pretty safe to just play whatever you enjoy more, but I wouldn't count on a rogue spec suddenly becoming top 5 DPS soon

[hybrid elm]

hm i just dont know where to spend my resources

[quiet apex]

the unfortunate reality is that as of this week all 3 specs are nearly equally mediocre

but again still 3 more weeks of tuning

[hybrid elm]

yes that seems clear

[quiet apex]

but with dagger, you are safer with 2 specs if you like sub/sin

[hybrid elm]

I was thinking of getting a crafted dagger cuz it can even offhand for outlaw

and i think it sims 1% higher even

[quiet apex]

yea you can still use as an offhand, not as strong as a diff second craft, but it's not a watse

[hybrid elm]

hmmm. Outlaw is fun but also taxing haha

[rocky island]

Is it just me or is there nobody doing the world boss anymore?

[cosmic prism]

most beneficial crest to pick from the endeavor quest?

[long ice]

I just took hero bc you get a million of the others

[cosmic prism]

yeah true

[trail stream]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[waxen canyon]

bro are nightmare hunts just impossible

i keep getting a dot that kills me from full

[pure lion]

You have to kill something within 15 seconds when you get the mark

[waxen canyon]

not that

something else

i made the mistake of picking silvermoon

lag is unplayable

[heady escarp]

its either the mark or the thing that chases u and u gotta interrupt it

then it goes away

[waxen canyon]

i think it was theshadow circle under me

but the lag was so bad that it was invisible

from world boss

gg

DO NOT PICK SILVERMOON FOR NIGHTMARE HUNT ! XD

[oak tartan]

Why?

[waxen canyon]

world boss lag will kill you

and dying resets your progress to 0

[ruby linden]

Good catch ty

[shut spade]

nvm ^^

[ember nest]

also check for abundance on the zone too

[timid magnet]

Anyone else encountered this problem?
Did LFR won a tier piece from boss 3 rolled a 97 for it only person left was a DK who d/c, normally u get it sent to mail after some time if they dont roll / lose the roll.
Been like 20mins still not got it. am i going crazy or what

[inland gale]

Did you try relogging

[timid magnet]

yh

i knew there was problems with certain specs and rolling tier set it would roll them as off spec. but i rolled a 97 not on an off spec so idk

[mellow pilot]

May take up to 30 mins / 1 hour for mail to arrive

Happens a lot when people don't roll and leave raid

[timid magnet]

been over an hr now still not got it

[mellow pilot]

Logout and login I guess, it sometimes happens, it happened to me during df and tww

If you're positive you win the role and no one else could, then just wait

Or ticket blizzard

[timid magnet]

will give it abit of time but might have to do a ticket, never experienced an issue like it

tried the usuall relog etc

[ruby linden]

It’ll be a good while but you will get it don’t worry

Upper limit 2 hours

[obtuse cedar]

Hi guys, is there a fork of SUF for midnight ? I can't find it

[glad harness]

The first hit on google will tell you its not supported for midnight

[obtuse cedar]

That's why i'm asking if someone have forked it to make it compatible with Midnight, but thanks !

[ruby linden]

You could search for suf within the server, there’s a couple of people using other addons that sort of look like suf (I didn’t mention any because I don’t want to rec something I don’t use lol)

[zealous halo]

https://github.com/NoSelph/ShadowedUnitFrames/releases

[ruby linden]

Holy updated 7 hours ago

[weak cape]

do we open coffer chests on 8 delvs?

havent played TWW

[bright otter]

this sus

[plush dune]

@tough swallow save us

[tough swallow]

!ban @tribal furnace potential scam

[ruby linden]

sus

[bright otter]

ty fuu

[grave wedge]

Wich one is the best Rogue on raid then?

[magic valve]

Anyone that’s done the raids yet, what are your thoughts on how all 3 rogue specs perform and feel? Any standouts? Does Assa feel (and output) shit?

[mellow pilot]

Just check warcraft logs for now

[magic valve]

Looks like Sub is the go to at the minute

[tough swallow]

it seems like all 3 are not too far appart

[storm cloud]

Was there a resource for the damage increase for 2 and 4 set tier for all 3 specs?

[shut spade]

Guys how do i summon delve nemesis?

[mellow pilot]

You need a special item that usually drops from the end reward of delves themselves

Once you have it, you go back in and use it near one of those checkpoints, in case it didn't change

[shut spade]

Thank you

[storm cloud]

Simmed my own 2 piece upgrade and its just around 8% increase for sub does this seem around the ballpark?

[versed sand]

hey guys for the delve map, should i just use it and go into any delve? also does it matter if i go into bountiful or not?

[mellow pilot]

Idk if it changed but used to be 8 or above delves to use the map

For the hero item reward

[ornate nest]

I read that would be the case still

[mellow pilot]

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but during tww, using the map in a delve 11 was more profitable than below because it awarded more mythic crests

[tough swallow]

!sheet

[ionic forum]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[storm cloud]

Tyvm

[ruby linden]

Double check delvers bounty to check if it’s even unlocked

[mellow pilot]

Do you need to have the delvers journey leveled to use the map for the hero item?

[ruby linden]

The additional mythic rewards appear to be gated

I could be wrong, maybe I’m thinking of gilded rewards

[mellow pilot]

I have no clue, I'm not playing the game this expansion

[ruby linden]

Maybe when I get off work I can confirm or deny

[sour patrol]

[mellow pilot]

I'm real

[sour patrol]

I'm real
Real sick of your shit

[mellow pilot]

Hehehehe

[mellow pilot]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/grim-batol/Royalflux

[steep dock]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[steep dock]

M+ myth starts at 9,the crests shit

[sour patrol]

This MFer got a 715 ilvl.

[trail stream]

so that table is wrong?

[steep dock]

Ingame it says the crests start at 9

[pseudo stump]

yo should I craft a hero weapon now if i intend to do high keys next week?

got 250 and 243 equipped

[hollow shale]

Has anyone had a problem with Beacon of Hope? I’m at the Restoration Stone and I can’t summon the boss.

[sour patrol]

Was crafting the 259 dagger last week a dumb decision? Should I have waited

[ruby linden]

No you’re fine. Recraft good
Just don’t recraft hero, directly go for myth

[sour patrol]

So just wait until next week

[ruby linden]

Ya

I have crafted 259 and champ dagger offhand for now

[mellow pilot]

No

Waste of crests imo

Go directly to mythic

[pseudo stump]

so i shouldnt craft anything this week u reckon?

just upgrade the gear i have

[mellow pilot]

You can craft a normal piece with embellishment at Champion level

[pseudo stump]

figured

embellishment works while its in offhand righjt?

if so i guess ill do it

[mellow pilot]

But using heroic crests when most of us will eventually once the season starts get myth crests asap... Is a waste of hero crests

[mellow pilot]

Yeah

Slot doesn't matter, as long as you only have 2

[pseudo stump]

ok tysm

[late forge]

does anyone know if there's a grace period for the ?? delve HOF?

[hollow shale]

Has anyone had a problem with Beacon of Hope? I’m at the Restoration Stone and I can’t summon the boss.

[inland gale]

From what I’ve read this morning the answer is no

[trail stream]

is there a weekly cap for how many coffer keys we can earn?

[blazing prism]

600 shards, so 6. Plus there’s an npc near Valeera in silver moon that will give you 2 more, but apparently that’s once-per-account, not character.

So 8 on one char 6 on others.

[jade panther]

Guys i'm the only one having issues to use the "beacon of hope" item to summon the nemesis ?

it says that i need to be close to a stone, i'm at the stone

it does not work

[blazing prism]

Had some issues using it yesterday at grudge pit but I assumed it was because the whole thing is in one room. After completing the first 2-3 objectives the beacon became usable.

[proud raft]

does anyone know if we can get the 30 myth crests from nemesis ?? if we accidentally run out without looting? blizz says they cant give out currencies, just tested ? variant and got no loot at all, where i guess i should at least get the hero crests? also are those within the season cap?

[upbeat mauve]

Has anyone tried to solo ?? yet? What spec? Success?

[mellow pilot]

Sub

Lots of rogues

Yes

[upbeat mauve]

Surprised! What ilvl did you do it with Royal?

[mellow pilot]

I didn't, I'm not playing

[upbeat mauve]

Oh

[noble kestrel]

People are doing it around 240 - 250

Just game

[upbeat mauve]

I've only seen tanks and I think hunters so far

[mellow pilot]

Yesterday during NA reset, people were sending tricks on valeera and she would face tank the boss while you did like 3/4 mechanics

Today it seems to be harder

But still possible

[upbeat mauve]

Oh, that's a interesting strat! I tried it a few times as sin around 245 and got around 50%? Think that's second transition, but glad to hear it's doable for us

[mellow pilot]

A few more Numbers on your ilevel and it will get easier

Hof is already closed anyway

[upbeat mauve]

Already! Damn

[mellow pilot]

For both regions

[cinder sail]

so use the Beacon of Hope map in a t8 delve more or less?

[mellow pilot]

8+

[upbeat mauve]

Jeez, I figured everyone would be busy raiding for a day or two

[cinder sail]

does it matter if you use it in an 8 vs 11?

[mellow pilot]

Depends

[upbeat mauve]

8-11 should be the same

[mellow pilot]

If it is anything like tww yee

It matters

If not, then no

[upbeat mauve]

I used mine on 11 with the map and got a hero piece, but I heard I could have done it on 8. If you can do 11 prob safest

[mellow pilot]

The issue isn't the hero piece

[upbeat mauve]

( think it was dratnos latest video that said 8 was fine for however much you trust him for tips )

[mellow pilot]

8 or above gives hero with map

[soft cipher]

what is the item called now for more gems in neck and rings

[mellow pilot]

The thing is that in tww if I remember correctly if you used a map on a t11 you'd get more mythic crests

I might be wrong

But afaik the t11 mythic crests caches are locked behind delvers journey level

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, rank 4? I think

Rank 6? I forget

[upbeat mauve]

Ahh, I thought he was asking if 8 was ok to use it to get the map from killing the beacon summon

[mellow pilot]

It is, for the hero piece

[ruby linden]

gilded related stuff show up on 2 and 4, I would imagine its 4

[jade hazel]

!macro

!macros

sick

[ruby linden]

polo

[balmy lark]

Rogue Assa > All

[long ice]

dk bm in shambles

[zinc raven]

im somewhat new to rogue, is there any agreement which spec is best for soloing? like harder delves and stuff?

[balmy lark]

Sub

Valeera healer

And here we go

[zinc raven]

ty!

and why is sub the best?

i actually never tried it before until recently and im really enjoying it so that works out nicely

[balmy lark]

No need setup for deal dmg

U have a big instant burst

U insta explode everything

[cinder sail]

so you have to use the beacon thing? spawn the nemisis, get the map and use it, then you'll get the heroic track? cause after nemisis boss i just got champ track

[mellow pilot]

Yeah it's for the next delve after using the map item

[cinder sail]

ok i thought the beacon boss gave heroic, but makes sense

[mellow pilot]

You still have the buff correct?

[cinder sail]

was worried i messed up

i didn't use the map yet, just the beacon

should i just use the map now before i finish this delve? can't hurt right?

[mellow pilot]

Map = your next delve will have an extra cache with champion gear if used on 7 or below or heroic if 8 or above

Yeah you can, not sure if the cache will appear now or in the next run

But you can

Good luck getting a good item

[tall jungle]

You can use map right before final boss

Do it in a 8 or higher tho

[mellow pilot]

I was wondering about that, thanks for clearing that out

[cinder sail]

yeah just did, it works

gave a weapon, meh guess that's not terrible

[mellow pilot]

It's actually good

Hero weapon without wasting resources

[open lodge]

as a completely new rogue player and interested for pvp and pve, wich spec do you recommend ?

[noble kestrel]

Sub rogue

[open lodge]

thank you for answering this fast ! i'm going to check skill trees, any details why ?

[mellow pilot]

Because it's purple

(it's an honest answer!)

Honestly all 3 are good and igestalt is biased towards sub

Assa is the easiest one

Or used to be before all this pruning

[open lodge]

i was interested in ass or sub, but if both are good i'm gonna test both

[mellow pilot]

Yeah you'll have really good players use either or both

So don't feel discouraged/forced to play just one

[open lodge]

i'll keep it in mind ! i was fed up playing sham elem so i decided to switch

both are smooth for leveling ?

[mellow pilot]

Leveling overall isn't a good experience for rogues

[steep dock]

sub easier than ass now tbh

[mellow pilot]

We aren't zugzug

[mellow pilot]

Most likely true honestly

[open lodge]

oh i heard back in the days that sub was way more difficult

but if it has changed at least it s a good way to start for me

[haughty kelp]

sub is a star in pvp

[open lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-and-morty-morty-you-son-of-a-bitch-im-in-animated-series-gif-17733141

[novel pewter]

Sub used to be one of if not the hardest specs in the game. No where close to that now.

[left crow]

Is there any reason to go LfR other than fishing for tier ?

[mellow pilot]

Nop

Unless you have too much free time

[frigid isle]

When it comes to delves whats the optimal way to use our koffer keys and treasure maps?

Is there any point on doing 8+ delves currently?

[rare solar]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[mellow pilot]

Keys on 8 or above bountiful

Same with map

[novel pewter]

I mean fishing for tier list is a pretty good reason.

[snow torrent]

?????? What lol

[mellow pilot]

What?

[snow torrent]

How is leveling a rogue not a good experience

[mellow pilot]

Just compare it to any other class in the game

And that's your answer

[snow torrent]

lol

So you don’t have a real answer. Just wanted to confirm.

[mellow pilot]

Holy Jesus someone's salty

As a fury warrior per example you can literally AoE down huge packs of mobs since level 10 by pressing whirlwind

[novel pewter]

Rogue generally is just harder to level then other stuff.

[proven ridge]

rogue open world is just bad in general

you have a 20% heal on a 30 second cooldown

they removed soothing darkness so you have no out of combat heal outside of recuperate xd

[mellow pilot]

As a rogue, whatever the spec, you can barely AoE stuff without going out of energy for 3 days

[novel pewter]

Try any tank spec you can literally aggro the entire zone and killing the entire zone takes same time as killing 1 mob.

[mellow pilot]

I'm mainly talking about 1 - 60s kinda

Once you start getting more talents that smooth the spec it gets better

But better still isn't good

[haughty kelp]

true af dude when i leveled my mage and druid

it was worlds difference

[mellow pilot]

You only really know how bad rogue leveling is when you actually level other stuff

[novel pewter]

Also any class that has a tank/healer spec can very very easily afk in dungeons the entire time. 😂 Lfg pops when you press go.

[mellow pilot]

are you returning with another answer about rogue leveling or?

[snow torrent]

Yeah I’m not really ever trying to pull a whole zone or aoe huge groups, you don’t need to do either for questing. If you’re just trying to speed through everything then you probably don’t enjoy leveling period. Leveling through dgs has never been a poor experience either

[mellow pilot]

You can enjoy it, because i love it too, but we can't say it is good, we just can't

[nova zephyr]

sources of Vet Gear now?

[mellow pilot]

LFR / world content weeklies

[inland gale]

hard prey

[nova zephyr]

so if ive doen all of that. +10 delves

[mellow pilot]

m0 awards champion this week

[nova zephyr]

and prey for the slot and armor i need

[mellow pilot]

on a daily lockout

[nova zephyr]

yes, but

i need vet gear for the 5/6-6/6 upgrade

[mellow pilot]

oooo

[nova zephyr]

and im missing vet boots and gloves 😄

i REALLY dont wanna be wasteful 😄

[mellow pilot]

i might be mistaken but you could check pvp gear

[nova zephyr]

oooooooooooooooooooo

ill check ty royal!

[mellow pilot]

♥

[daring sundial]

Man unholy DKs are such crybabies

Imagine complaining about a 20% nerf when rogues have apparently been dogshit for years

[novel pewter]

I mean. UHDKs probably did get over nerfed. 😂 The Nerf plus bug fixes kinda a double tap.

But also it's one of those things where a lot of them were fotm chasers and bad at the class. Many of the legit DK players went frost.

So you have a bunch of players that only playing UHDK because it was broken that aren't overly good at it - and now it's not particularly strong. And they're also the group of fotm players most likely to whine about their spec being weak.

[upper barn]

What to do now for better gear except raiding?

[timid terrace]

Bountiful delves, delve map, mythic dungeons, nightmare prey

[upper barn]

Are m0 giving better gear now?

[timid terrace]

246

[upper barn]

Nice

[nova zephyr]

bloody token is 4/6

[mellow pilot]

GG?

[raw hill]

when is mythic raids coming?

[tiny sleet]

aanybody have a guide on what gear to buy with honor for pvp sub?

[mellow pilot]

#pvp

[astral path]

would it be a safe assumption that no blacksmith can 5 star a weapon this early?

[mellow pilot]

Ask Notrickz when he's around

[mellow pilot]

259?

[astral path]

yeah

[mellow pilot]

yes

[astral path]

i sent it to someone yday and he said he was still a few points off of 4 starring, might've not been spec'd into daggers though

[timid terrace]

if they are speced into it they can

there is enough knowledge to reach 5 star with inspiration

[astral path]

the hunt to find someone specing daggers

[timid terrace]

this is my split alt don't actually make heroic items rn on a real character

[mellow pilot]

beautiful

but yeah dont waste on HC crafts

[astral path]

yeah just going 259 > 291 next week

or w/e myth lvl is

[timid terrace]

someone in our guild maxed out bladecrafting which gets a lot of stuff to 5 star

agi/str/int weps can all be blades

including daggers

[mellow pilot]

i usually have a warrior alt with BS just so i can focus daggers and do stuff myself

saves a lot of headaches

[timid terrace]

yeah that or leatherworking is reallly nice to have on an alt

or both

[mellow pilot]

LW is usually on main character

so i really just need someone to craft me rings/neck lol

[obsidian ibex]

Brand new to rogue - I was hoping Logs from yesterday would give a clearer picture.

Is there a single spec that is pretty good all around right now? It looks like the best spec for each fight varies wildly.

[mellow pilot]

as it should

since all 3 specs do different things :3

[astral path]

sub is famously shit at exactly 2 target cleave xd

[timid terrace]

course all 3 rogue specs are pretty bad at 2 target cleave rn

[mellow pilot]

and also famous for its really high burst dmg profile

[timid terrace]

compared to real classes

[astral path]

outlaw famously sim bait

[raw hill]

guys whos pikaboo btw? i heard his group completed last boss of voidspire raid

[mellow pilot]

a pvp streamer

rogue player mostly

really funny guy

[mellow pilot]

try explaining that to people

[raw hill]

lmao my normal raid is on the last boss rn and they mentioned "if he can do it then we can"

[mellow pilot]

yeah he's 99.9% a pvp guy

[obsidian ibex]

Is outlaws damage just too smooth? I haven't tried it yet, only dabbled in Ass and Sub.

[astral path]

it's a very flat profile, no big burst windows

[mellow pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/@Pikabooirl

[astral path]

fights tend to have intermissions and/or damage amps

[raw hill]

ty sarge

[timid terrace]

anyone that disagrees with that probably just has a difference of opinion on what it means to be simbait

[raw hill]

has anyone gotten the aotc achiveement yet?

[novel pewter]

It's the smoothest DPS curve in the game.

But also uptime reduces their cool down duration - so they get double tapped on down time.

[astral path]

intermissions favor burst windows outside of them, damage amps favor burst windows inside

[timid terrace]

it's definitely a fact that outlaw is worse on paper than it ever is on sims thanks to having almost exclusively downsides

and 0 upsides that can present themselves in raid

[fringe umbra]

The last boss aint released for another 2 weeks

[astral path]

so if your damagr profile looks the same all fight you suffer more during intermissions and benefit less during amps, vs other specs than have spikes

[raw hill]

ohhh

[fringe umbra]

As its split up into multiple raids

[timid terrace]

no fight can present our strengths, and many fightstyles can present our weaknesses

[mellow pilot]

unfortunately true

and a shame it remains like that

[astral path]

outlaw is theoretically at its best on a council fight with 0 downtime

[raw hill]

these ones i assume?

[timid terrace]

not anymore

[astral path]

but even then assa might be better lol

[timid terrace]

or low target cleave isn'

isn't good anymore

[astral path]

oh rip

[timid terrace]

even though subs is somehow worse

[raw hill]

so meaning chimaerus is locked?

[astral path]

i haven't played the game since df ngl

did blade flurry get sent or wha?

[timid terrace]

BF is at the lowest damage transmission % that it has been in years, BF must be activated every 10-13 seconds effectively wasting a global

and precise cuts is gone so no more increased BF damage for each missing target

[obsidian ibex]

Follow up question then:

If I wanted to play all 3 specs, what is the simplest weapon loadout I would have.

2 Daggers and a Sword?

[mellow pilot]

yes

[timid terrace]

while low target cleave damage in the game in general is much higher than it was when outlaw had this low of damage transmission 8 years ago

[fringe umbra]

Outlaw wants 1 dagger and 1 sword, the other specs want 2 daggers

[timid terrace]

our most ideal fightstyle seems to be 0 downtime 1 target long fight

[astral path]

what's the uptime on AR like nowadays?

and how is it playing without weakauras lol

[timid terrace]

~35%

depending on content/fightstyle/misplaying

as for WAs I never really used that many computational ones and was able to replicate all relevant WAs that I use to have for outlaw

just using arcui

wangbar saved my energy bar

everything other than wangbar is bad and can't look like my old energy/combo points

[rich meadow]

Why do they even bother sometimes lmao

Exploit early and often I guess right? Lmao

[raw hill]

@mellow pilot which boss is the one thats locked out?

[vernal timber]

anyone else getting a bug where you'll only get the same slot item from delves?

i can only get necklaces lol

relogging, etc, nothing will fix it

[rich meadow]

Time to buy a mega millions ticket

[chilly wagon]

added noise alerts to CDM and it helps me know when important buffs fall off and added a glow to other abilities when they’re off CD and it’s nice!

only thing is it glows all the time so i had to turn off cdm when not in combat

[mellow pilot]

I believe Eleem said above which one it was

I don't know 🙁

[keen cobalt]

@zealous halo https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-them-too-much-380851?utm_source=discord-webhook luckylee here

[woeful geyser]

unholy dks get an entire "we are so sowwy uwu" post after getting nerfed once

i cant

[fringe umbra]

On bosses without small adds to padd on unholy is doing similar numbers to rogues

[glossy flicker]

we need to get unholy back to a competitive state ASAP!

[fringe umbra]

ASAP

[haughty kelp]

which fight is this

[fringe umbra]

baladins

[glossy flicker]

vanguard heroic

[terse torrent]

We get same vault ilvl from T8 as T11s, right?

[haughty kelp]

yo i got a heroic one handed from raid too

i can play the law

[static epoch]

yes, 259 hero 1/6

then again even 11s are ridic easy atm, I'm clearing them with no issues in unupgraded vet gear, so like 240 tops

[vague field]

Bountiful maps on 8+ all give the hero track reward right?

[woeful geyser]

y

[static epoch]

yeah

no scaling either, so you can just knock out a quick 8 instead of going for 11

[meager totem]

isnt bountiful champ

only the map is hero?

[vivid crescent]

yes only the map is hero

[static epoch]

yes

[frigid isle]

Hey people. If I already used a treasure map in a delve then there is no point in consuming my beacon of hope cus I wont get another map this week?

[sterile delta]

Similar weird delve question. Does anyone know: we unlock the gilded cache at delve journal 2 but it says you dont unlock myth crests from the gilded cache until journal rank 4. Should we be purposefully not getting our gilded chests until rank 4 so that we can get the max myth crests?

[mellow pilot]

Correct

[long ice]

I’m personally probs not going above an 8 until I unlock level 4

But I’m not 100% sure what’s in a gilded stash without myth crests

[sterile delta]

Fair enough. I just wont do the 11 with the gilded cache for now and stick to 10's until rank 4 I guess.

[long ice]

I’ll probs check it out once I hit level 2 bc I can’t find good info anywhere lol

[boreal tendon]

Which spec is decent for pushing higher delves? I kinda enjoy all of them

[mellow pilot]

you can do it with all of them

sub seems to be a favourite in midnight due to how simplified it got

[novel pewter]

I'd recommend anything trickster.

But trickster OL is kinda troll.

Just use perma tricks on valeera and delves as a whole are trivial.

[gentle frigate]

[exotic abyss]

Is there a reason why the tanks face Chimaerus away from the raid?

[noble kestrel]

I don't think it has a frontal

[somber idol]

it does on hc

[plush dune]

just hero crests

10 hero crests

at least thats all ive gotten from it two runs now

[sterile delta]

i believe you can only open 4 gilded caches per week so it seems waiting until journal rank 4 is best assuming thats possible this week

[plush dune]

i dont think that is possible no

[upper barn]

should i save coffer keys for level 11 delves or can i use them for level 8 already?

[oak tartan]

Just do them 8+

Coffer keys are just champ gear in bountiful delves

Higher delves are just for mythic crests with lvl 4 journey

1 map per week for 1 hc item

[green moat]

Hey! Any experienced rogue who could help me out?

I’m struggling with low parses across the whole raid (~40 overall, ~10 ilvl) and I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.

I’m playing Subtlety and I’m pretty new, so I also have a hard time reading logs properly.

If anyone has time to take a quick look or give some pointers on what I should focus on, I’d really appreciate it!

[mighty crypt]

anyone else get 256 ilevel tier from lfr? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1481070062730215660/1483931283364122634/image.png?ex=69bc6234&is=69bb10b4&hm=f200d85acdfc68613a31b637540bd5d7b3c7eceae4ca29c8862ff76cf175a3d8&

[mellow pilot]

#subtlety

[rocky island]

Crazy I've gotten zero normal loot across three characters

[astral path]

may i ask why wowhead guide recommends belt rather than bracers for embellishment slot?

[radiant falcon]

What have people seen playing in raid so far of the 3 specs?

[mellow pilot]

All 3

[mellow pilot]

Doesn't matter much

In theory, after weapon, you just upgrade your worse pieces with crafts

[astral path]

the worst piece in general for stat budget is wrist/cloak is why i ask

the explanation of why it says belt is because low stats, but bracers/cloak have lower stats then belt, so im a lil confused

[novel pewter]

It's marginal. Your exact gear & stats likely changes what's best.

[neon glen]

there are other factors like whether there is a drop with ideal stats for that slot

[surreal void]

seat of trium final boss gives 10 crest + chest gives 10

gotta loot corpse within a few seconds or it poofs

[rocky island]

So our dragons didn't do the RP and won't go to the arena and reseting won't fix it, does anyone know if there's a solution

[acoustic brook]

Anyone know if artifact appearances are broken or can we just not use them? I'm sub spec'd but unlocked some outlaw ones I wanted to use

[daring sundial]

Is it just me or is the raidbot sim not very intuitive

I just want to compare one loadout with another

Wowsims for classic does this really well

I can't do this with raidbots

[haughty kelp]

u can jus doa quick sim for both loadouts

[novel pewter]

Is there an addon or something that turns off devastation spell effects? 😂

So much visual aids when the raid already kinda visual aids.

[desert cape]

Rude

[sweet harness]

Are they not listed in the respective Swords or Daggers tab when you transmog? They should be, have a search for them by name as well

For me, it's not that "Legion Artifacts" does not have a second tab of its own, it's that I can't use any illusions on Thunderfury

[unreal gulch]

For talents its doable, comparing just strict sets of gear is kinda useless

[unreal gulch]

Work totally fine

[unreal gulch]

Do you have the spell density setting lowered already?

[novel pewter]

Those settings always scare me because they used to turn off event aoe's too.

[unreal gulch]

Can usually freely adjust it downwards, only reduces other player visuals afaik

[waxen canyon]

is there any downside to turning my hero track pants into tier?

[scarlet citrus]

Is there a possibility that we could be like the paladins and take the discord offline so that we can get buffed?

[kindred verge]

If i got a hero leg piece, and a tier chest, would it make sense to activate 2 set or should i wait for next week just in case i hit a tier leg in the vault?

[mellow pilot]

Heroic tier is a good enough ilvl to be worth it. Mythic is a gamble on the vault, the sooner we have 2/4 piece, the better imo

[astral crest]

Hey.. you probably didn’t see me join
Just sneaking in to learn more about Rogues and step up my gameplay o7 all

[storm cloud]

no once you hit 4 piece you essentially get unlimited crests and can make any myth tier when you get it

[waxen canyon]

shouldnt be that hard to get 4 piece tier

[mellow pilot]

Welcome

[acoustic brook]

They finally were available after I was logged out for several hours, thanks for the reply!

[acoustic brook]

They were finally available after logging in and out for several hours, thanks for the reply!

[scenic flume]

i probably have a bug that cooldown manager dont show my smoke bomb cd?

[ebon onyx]

any point doing tier 11 delves or just farm 8s?

[unreal gulch]

Thats wild. Glad it finally works tho

[candid prism]

Myth crests

• iirc higher drop and vault ilvl, saves a few crests upgrading

[naive goblet]

whats the best rogue atm overall? raid?m+?

[sonic kayak]

sub Id say

[naive goblet]

hm, then i will try sub, thank you

[daring sundial]

Why would it be useless to compare trinket a to trinket b?

I just got a new drop I want to see which of my current trinkets to replace (if any)

Seems like a solid use case right there

[unreal gulch]

Thats a normal sim

Not comparing two loadouts

Which is easily doable with raidbots

[daring sundial]

Ok how do I do that

[unreal gulch]

Top gear

Paste string

Select items

[mellow pilot]

And wait for the best outcome to generate

[daring sundial]

Where do I get the string

[mellow pilot]

Simc addon

[unreal gulch]

Simulationcraft addon ingame ye

[daring sundial]

Ah ok there's the gap

Thank you

[unreal gulch]

If you just selected your char on the site, you are missing like 95% of the functions

And its horrible

[daring sundial]

Correct lol

[mellow pilot]

I'll explain like you're 5 (sometimes it's easier)

• say you wanna see if x trinket is better than the other for your ST build:
  Activate st talents, copy the simc string, go to raidbots.com, top gear, insert the string, choose the items you'd want the sim to check out and on the bottom choose patchwerk. That's it

"but I wanna test my m+ build now"
Activate your m+ build in game, copy string, do all the above steps but instead of choosing a patchwerk sim, select dungeonslice

That's how basic raidbots work

There's a lot more to it

[daring sundial]

I can figure it out. I was just missing the majority of the tools apparently. I built 90% of the bear sim and wrote the rogue tank guide for SOD. Simming is not new to me, it's just not very straightforward if you're missing the addon apparently

Looks like it has more features than wowsims

[noble kestrel]

It's a very powerful and useful tool

[mellow pilot]

Tank guide Pog, I read it!

(for rogue sod)

[daring sundial]

Oh, the compendium?

[mellow pilot]

Yes!

[daring sundial]

Hell yeah lol

I'm saeyon

[mellow pilot]

No you're awesome

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[daring sundial]

@glad harness

Not sure if there's a mod role to ping for this kind of thing

[grim hull]

Shadow/blades

[glad harness]

Surprised you even saw the posts to ban him with that hood so far down your eyes ronkman

[leaden parcel]

Can you still remove abilities from the boss timeline?

[noble kestrel]

You can toggle off categories, I believe

Like Healer, Tank, Important, Enrage, Dangerous

[dark onyx]

So am I being decieved by reddit posts or Rogue in all 3 specs is terrible compared to everything else ?

I admit I am kinda new to retail Rogue (was more of a classic->cata starting with 2019) so I am not up with every piece of news.

Playing Assassination if it matters since its mostly like Wotlk one lol

[mellow pilot]

You can check warcraftlogs

But be wary that tuning is still undergoing,

We're literally 2/3 days into the season

[woeful geyser]

your first mistake was using reddit for advice that goes beyond "whats the worst way you can screenshot looting Invincible"

80% of people posting there dont even play the game or just play it until they reach max level and then stop

[dark onyx]

I didnt go for advice, but this popped to me

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/s/QH0AwxyH1E

[woeful geyser]

its week1 of the season with most things not even enabled, and stuff is fucked hard in terms of numbers

thats kinda it

but like, literally never take anything you see on the wow subreddit serious in any way at all, its one of the worst gaming subs on that cursed website, half the posters openly admit that they dont even play the game, and the other half complains about t8 delve difficulty and how m0 dungeons are to stressfull for them

[loud elbow]

Hey guys, I was wondering if there are any Rogue coaches that you would recommend? You could DM me any responses as I am looking to bring up my gameplay. Any advice or otherwise feel free to @ me or DM. 🙂

[novel pewter]

@crude pilot coaches iirc.

[gentle frigate]

Bro yesterday I think, someone on there was complaining about the DK nerfs and admitted they haven’t played wow since cata

Like my brother in Christ the nerfs aren’t going to affect your lfr performance and transmog runs calm down

[cloud badger]

people that dont play the game but keep complaining about it are the bane of existence

[gentle frigate]

Let me give you some advice, if you’re new to retail, don’t take this too personally but you’re likely not good enough at the game or playing at a level that balance will even matter.

If you’re that worried, liquid was playing a sub rogue yesterday in at least one of their comps/groups.

But the best thing you can do, and it’s wonderful that you’re here, is to pick a class and master it. Even if it’s not currently meta, if you’re cracked at it already groups will take you regardless

[pearl vessel]

So is assa back? xd

[woeful geyser]

arms has the biggest bar, so its the best

[gentle frigate]

Bro they’re just dumb. I saw YouTube comments on the end of SoO cinematic complaining that wow used to be badass now it’s Disney.

When MoP was bitched about for the same reasons modern wow is.

[noble kestrel]

that's their sword

[gentle frigate]

This explains everything

[woeful geyser]

no no

THIS time its different!!!!

just like the last 39 times!

[mellow pilot]

You made me spit my imaginary drink God damn it

[sinful citrus]

hi, random question but can you not step into heroic raids until you have cleared normal?

[noble kestrel]

You can go into Heroic right away

However, I would recommend you clear Normal first to see the fights beforehand.

[sinful citrus]

thanks!

[magic valve]

So guys, when are we going to close the rogue discord in protest?

[noble kestrel]

never

[mellow pilot]

Never

[warm pagoda]

When are we going to close the outlaw channel? Not in protest, just for fun.

[gentle frigate]

LMAO

[dark onyx]

Honestly i was hoping to push up to M10 but based on my experience in classic revamp (of humans not game), if a class is suboptimal for 0.1%, then the ppl blind copy them even if they arent performing anywhere close.

Thats all, the TBC Rogue shenanigans

[gentle frigate]

I mean yeah retail people are like that too but that’s the nature of pugs since wrath. Even in wrath people wouldn’t take you for brain dead heroics unless you had X gear score.

But you can clear 10s on rogue no problem

[deep hinge]

Could use some thoughts from others.

If my damage is better with a suboptimal parse (sub) but do less damage but parse signifcantly better (Sin), should I just focuse on the higher damage spec? I would assume so since there will be room to improve / just need to get used to it more?

[magic valve]

Parsing is just to stroke your e-penis if you do well and to see where you sit amongst a % whereas doing more damage and killing a boss is playing the game successfully, but yeah like you said, maybe there's more room for improvement

That's my take anyway

[light canyon]

Your improvement is not enough wiggles while standing still in rotation for autism parse points

[novel pewter]

Generally this is true.

But it's also a verifiable resume. If you want to climb / get in groups you need proof you deserve to be in that group.

[stuck birch]

can acuity of rendorei proc off of main and off hand? my sim is saying i should put on both

[woeful geyser]

yes?

if it was not good, the sim would not recommend it

[fleet cloud]

Hey fellow Rogues, quick question:
I've never played DPS in M+ before. How hard is it to be invited to pug groups as a Rogue?
I imagine since we are missing BL and aren't that popular off a class it will be hard?
Thanks in advance 🙂

[woeful geyser]

#1 rule for pugging as everything is "dont pug"

#2 is "make your own groups"

[noble kestrel]

Make your own group or just keep trying. Pugging is absolutely possible but you have to accept it's going to take effort.

[woeful geyser]

and yeha, rogue is not really a popular invite for pugs cus no group buff stuff really

have a higher then average score and its fine, like it always is

[fleet cloud]

Okay, thanks! I'm kinda afraid off having to sit 10+ minutes and just wait to be accepted in to groups, but maybe creating my own is the way to go as you guys said
Appreciate the answer 🙂

[noble kestrel]

It varies. Sometimes it's 10 minutes. Sometimes it's an hour. Sometimes it's instant. You also don't WANT to be invited to every group, because a lot of groups are potentially bad.

It will vary heavily on the content and level you are playing, your experience and knowledge, your iLevel, your rating.

[woeful geyser]

dont waste time with a Druid Tank + Warrior + DK + Priest Healer group, thats kinda it tbh

[fleet cloud]

Yeah, I unfortunately only have one other friend whom plays WoW, and he also plays DPS ^^

[noble kestrel]

Make friends with people in good groups. Chat, be friendly, ask to add them if it went super well.

[woeful geyser]

if you REALLY wanna go into the cesspool that is pugging stuff, you try to be above the curve to get into stuff easier cus you stand out, cant really do much more then that

[raw hill]

real lol priest healer is so depressing

[fleet cloud]

Yeah, I've been meaning to join some M+ Discords and try to find a group there 🙂

[novel pewter]

100%. If you can be slightly above average you'll have an easy time. If you lag behind it's rough in a hurry.

[noble kestrel]

Absolutely true, yeah.

[woeful geyser]

or just play wow like its intended: with buddys

[noble kestrel]

I refuse

[woeful geyser]

even m+ is somehow fun with friends

[noble kestrel]

Alternatively: what if everyone is my buddy in group finder (they're not)

[novel pewter]

😂

[noble kestrel]

Pugging is the true player versus player experience.

[fleet cloud]

Yeah then I am already kinda behind XD Will have to grind ilvl this weekend

[novel pewter]

I mean playing with my buddies is why I have used Lfg, historically. My buddies are great at being friends, but terrible at playing WoW. 😅

[woeful geyser]

wdym behind

the season didnt even start lol

[noble kestrel]

240+ is still ahead of a lot of people

I've hit the point in pugging where there's barely any groups for the content I'm doing lmao

[novel pewter]

Yes. But if you go into M+ at ilvl 265 you'll get into every group on day 1. If you get into every group on day 1, you'll have faster larger keys, and having larger keys means more too, means more invites.

If you go into M+ with 235.... Well. Good luck.

[woeful geyser]

bro, all ilvl rn is almost pointless cus you can and will just ge full heroic stuff in week1 anyway

[noble kestrel]

250+ for week 1 is gonna be comfy. 260 is massive and hard to do without real good loot luck.

[woeful geyser]

and you have to push your own key anyway

[noble kestrel]

And also that, ye

the only thing this week is like, heroic pug kills so you can more easily pug into rekills next week.

[novel pewter]

I'm exaggerating obviously. But generally true. With no rio to look at particularly if you character swapped - ilvl will be your gate keeper.

[fleet cloud]

Aight, gonna try to get some increase in ilvl now. Appreciate you guys taking the time answering
Looks lite it's not all doom and gloom for DPS as long as I play the game enough / find friends / and invite others to my key when I pug 😄

[noble kestrel]

I'm a puglord, I pug most content and my main goals each season are AotC pugged + 3k pugged.

I've achieved it very quickly for the last few seasons. Typically AotC the second week, 3k the second or third. It's suuuper doable. You just have to accept it'll sometimes take time, sometimes you gotta make your own group.

[novel pewter]

Basically you just want your ilvl to be higher than the average person applying for a group on day 1. Then regardless of class it's not too bad.

[noble kestrel]

Pretty much. You'll always be up against people being weird about your class, too.

[novel pewter]

Then just keep progressing ahead of the average.

[noble kestrel]

Also the power of making friends is very good in pugging. It's a quick way to find people to play with.

I cannot do this though.

[raw hill]

"not S tier in tierlists?? hes not good to invite!!!"

[raw hill]

why not, ur pretty cool

[plush dune]

never say never

[noble kestrel]

But I keep getting into arguments on Imperator groups about what the word "Adjacent" means!

[raw hill]

do people not know what it means?

[noble kestrel]

No, lmao

[raw hill]

lmfao what, its not a big word either imo

[novel pewter]

I'll also note that's there's a certain skill to navigating the lfg system. After awhile you get good at spotting good groups and knowing when to abandon groups and when to stick it out and rep some pulls.

Takes time to get a feel, though.

AotC is often very achievable week 1 or week 2 in pugs.

[plush dune]

Bro thinks using 3 syllable words in a pug is a good idea lmao

Deserved tbh

[noble kestrel]

it's in the dungeon journal!

[sour patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-why-waste-time-few-word-gif-8100952

[noble kestrel]

My fav group today was someone going "are there any difs?" and the lead replying "many diffs" and not explaining anything.

[sour patrol]

Well technically Death Knights are dead and were resurrected

Then there are Forsaken Death Knights who are quadruple dead

[novel pewter]

On the other hand - I find I have a lot of fun in pugs. So much goes wrong that good pug players and playing in pugs let's a lot of skill expression come out.

Downed Crown last night on normal, and on the kill legit had some of the cleanest on the fly staggered group defensive / healing CDs I've ever seen - all without typed comms, let alone voice comms.

It's cool when it comes together like that.

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, it rules a ton

I wouldn't change it fo rthe world.

My Saladbar 2.0 heroic group today killed him in 3 pulls. Just extremely good play from everybody.

[plush dune]

One of my favorite raid moments ever is still killing heroic sludgefist at like 3 am with an oce pug

Pugging is cursed but it can also have some great moments

[noble kestrel]

I still think of my favourite UNdermine moment. A guy applying with "know all tactics" and I invite him. I ask him if he can do mines on the conveyer boss 'cos he has an immune.

"I don't know that tactic"

In general, red flags that are obvious are.. obvious. Passenger princess raid leads, "checking all" but the person is clearly not + has grey logs. Weird iLevel requirements on the group and a different number in the title.

[novel pewter]

Sludgefist is the perfect example of a boss that's a cakewalk in a guild but absolute terror in a pug.

Absolutely gorgeous when you get a pug group through something like that.

[noble kestrel]

Ansurek pugging, man.

Do you want to wipe 100+ times in P1? Have I got the heroic raid boss for you

[novel pewter]

Other ones to look out for is guilds filling their roster on raid night through Lfg. Basically a guarantee that 5+ players are 100% asleep at the wheel.

[noble kestrel]

That can go the other way, too, where they're very consistent and just need bodies.

But I tend to agree with your assessment and avoid those 99% of the time

I also avoid voice comm like the plague.

[novel pewter]

Yeah. Some are okay but generally a red flag.

Other big exception there is if you want some pulls to learn the fight so you can parse. 😂 Sometimes you want to find a group that you know just hard stuck there and can't kill - and just get fight down to a tee before finding a competent group.

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, that's how I pug when I'm not leading. Join a group just to learn mechanics, I don't care to kill, just reps. Then I shop around for a kill group and do 1 - 2 pulls before bouncing.

It's very easy to tell when people are doing this in my own group and I never hold it against them haha

Someday I wanna write a guide to pug with happiness and effiency

[novel pewter]

Also log all of your own fights. 😂

Nothing worse than assuming someone else is logging, getting a goated pull that's a juicy parse - and then it doesn't get posted.

[noble kestrel]

Yep, 100%

In general: Always do everything yourself because nobody will do it for you.

[haughty garden]

is there some secret tech im missing to soloing ?? naellus without just dying to auto attacks randomly at any point in the fight regardless of %?

[novel pewter]

I did it by juggling aggro back and forth with shadow dance and very careful use of defensive CDs / kiting.

It's pretty terror tbh. Honestly if I was to do it again I'd just kill her with a group and then do it solo for the achievement later - particularly if hof was already closed. Not worth the effort. 😂

[haughty garden]

yeah im gonna group kill her now that fabeled is out and then solo later but the dmg just seems so rng

[gentle frigate]

arms is not big shit

nerfs were required

blizz 200 iq

[leaden parcel]

In Dreamrift, if you break the shield on the monstrosity, is there any way to get back to the normal phase before the debuff runs out?

[noble kestrel]

not that I've found

it's annoying

[novel pewter]

Should have like an extra action bar icon after shield dead TBH.

[leaden parcel]

Just now, 15s. Had to run back to boss, then back to add

[rocky island]

How do you cap delve keys? My Rogue has way more than my other characters but I don't recall doing anything different on it

[heady escarp]

anyone know how i get my 4th spark on alt? i have 3 currently

[mellow pilot]

You can probably get it with the pvp quest

[novel pewter]

Did you miss a week? If so you'll get it from random shit.

Finishing a dungeon / wq, etc, as a catch-up.

[ember nest]

this week the only doable one is getting 1600 pvp rating

[long horizon]

Have any of you killed the delve boss yet on rogue ?

[ember nest]

AoTC is on march of quel danas

and m+ is not out

oh the spark

yea you will need any catch thing to dropo

[mellow pilot]

people have yes

[long horizon]

What spec would be the best ? Tried on sub getting clapped lol

[mellow pilot]

sub

have valeera leveled

tricks her

[novel pewter]

I mean ol works too, just need to spec trickster.

Sub better though, more defensives.

[late forge]

He said spark not catalyst charge?

[ember nest]

read after

[main orbit]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9TAQPRyyEUQRTCieyFAuze

next raid on sunday we continue

[somber idol]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[astral path]

how would people go about finding what's performing best in the raid so far?

not for rogue specs but in general

[daring sundial]

Airborne irritant is back baby!

[hearty fog]

rerolling to mage, going to their discord and playing whatever is meta there

[daring sundial]

Sanguine vial seems pretty nice for higher tier solo content as well

[sour patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/flynn-dixon-blind-crash-hugo-gif-11026353490696108102

[vernal timber]

salhadaar just died and didnt drop a tier piece lol

scammed

[snow torrent]

Anyone else totally lagged out

[late remnant]

Is there a way to farm veteran gear outside of weeklies?

[obsidian ibex]

Theres usually a balance patch after heroic week, right?

[sour patrol]

You would think "grab feather, jump across gap" would be simple

[rotund patrol]

farm crests and then craft gear with them

[late remnant]

I need 6/6 Veteran gear to upgrade champ 1/6 -> 2/6 for free not crafted ones

[rotund patrol]

ahh

[sour patrol]

I feel like I play with boosted players

[rare solar]

Dungeons

Normal or heroic

Should be heroic i think

[late remnant]

Still Adventurer gear I think even on heroic

Kinda stupid

[rotund patrol]

I think tier 8 delves can drop veteran track from nemesis box but it's random since it's warbound

[late remnant]

Will try that thx

[rotund patrol]

https://www.wowhead.com/object=584511/nemesis-strongbox#contains;50

yeah

[charred pawn]

Hi, someone knows how i can track my buff/cooldown like this screen (on the left, above the lifebar)

[minor ember]

it too early to use catalyst charge on a hc piece if i got 1pc alr?

[plush dune]

risks you getting the same piece from vault

[plucky talon]

take a look at Arcui

[minor ember]

figured

[serene pagoda]

Hey there not sure if this is the right channel for this question but I'm wondering if there is an admin that may be available to help my rogue buddy with a server ban appeal. Thanks!

[meager totem]

koffing or whispyr are your best bet

koffing probably asleep atm and I think whispyr is gaming

but if your bud got phised theyd probably unban him

[shut spade]

Are we expecting any tuning coming next reset? O. O

[meager totem]

yes you can expect notes in around 20h

[hearty fog]

just so you dont get your hopes up. We (wow players) will get tuning, but rogue might not necessarily be in there.

[hybrid sentinel]

Can someone craft spellbreaker's blade 272?

[unreal gulch]

Probably someone in the tradechat

[hybrid sentinel]

Do you know how to open that chat? sadly I don't have it

[novel pewter]

In game. Go to silvermoon

Probably 20 people spamming they can make in chat.

[hybrid sentinel]

Yeah, but I dont have this chat, closed it long time ago and don't know how to reopen again xD

[novel pewter]

Ask someone on your server, its different channel depending on server

usually 2 or 3

But just try typing /2 in chat

[trim imp]

Hi i'm rookie, someone for share knwoledge about rogue? I'm level 11

[dark onyx]

Maybe stupid question but does it matter in which order you tackle the weekly "chores" ? (As in getting rewarded as best as possible at the end of the week)

For example smb told me that i should leave pray for last so like m0 first, then m+, then 8+ delves then prays ?

Or it doesnt matter

[trim imp]

Someone have a guide for rogue begginner?

[hearty fog]

!guide

[ionic forum]

Rogue Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/classes#rogue
Icy Veins: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides

[unreal gulch]

Doesnt matter

Nightmare preys can be annoying if you have rather low gear tho

Thats the only benefit I could see

Yet again its not that bad

[dark onyx]

Nightmare prays you mean no ?

[unreal gulch]

Ye

[dark onyx]

Ok thanks !

[long horizon]

Does elusiveness work or is it just a tooltip bug that evasion doesn't show the DR ?

[ruby linden]

Doing nightmare preys before delves would probably be better this week, since the quest to do 3 nightmare preys rewards the delve item to summon the nemesis

[frigid plume]

Go to a major city and type /join Trade

or was it join services i dont remember

[ripe meteor]

It’s crazy to not see a single rogue spec high in any of the logs

[dusty whale]

What’s the best rogue spec for m+ now ?

[austere tartan]

considering nobody has done any m+ this season, nobody can really say

likely also some more tuning being posted tonight, so if I say a spec now, it might be invalid later today

[sour patrol]

Was in the Atal'man delve and couldn't summon him because the stone was in a section I couldn't access because of a barrier that teleported me back if I tried to go for it

[ruby linden]

dang 😭

[mellow pilot]

It's like tuning is still happening right?

[oak tartan]

Tuning is done until rwf finishes