subtlety

[lilac stag]

sitting a pure Dps class for an entire raid isn’t good

[sick swift]

I'm surprised they haven't baked a crit amp into rogues as their group buff

[lilac stag]

there would have been 0 rogues on lura if they were smart and swapped to another dk sooner

[small sleet]

Yeah but like what I mean is, shaman was equally as dogshit in raid at start of tier, but no one cared because they brought skyfury. How is that fun for the shaman player who’s still doing piss damage lmao

[lilac stag]

idk I like progressing bosses

Sounds good

[wheat edge]

Fuck raidbuffs 💯

[peak ice]

Cause you could just swap all the rogues out with warlocks and lose 0

[lilac stag]

Nah. They don’t have curse on their bars.

[sick swift]

You would lose the 3.6% raid DR that only has an effect on select mechanics that paladins provide by existing and isn't removed because you can't attack environmentals!

[lilac stag]

You’ve got a 50/50 shot of atrophic working

[light finch]

Sometimes I wish Blizzard would post do a Blue Post about Rogues like they did for other classes, even if we didn't get any raid buffs or anything like that.

Just to get the feeling that Rogues still exist for Blizzard at all.

[lilac stag]

We’re literally sat on the one fight atrophic is incredibly useful on. Amazing overall class design.

[sick swift]

I hope that read as sarcastically as I typed it.

[small sleet]

Sometimes I think y’all just don’t like playing rogue but have been here too long to know how to leave lmao

[lilac stag]

nice argument.

[sick swift]

We have the world's most obvious case of stockholm syndrome for our class lol

[lilac stag]

if you just want to ignore design flaws in a 3 spec dps class be my guest

[sick swift]

OR alternatively, we just want blizzard to give us better attention as a pure dps class that provides some of, if not the lowest group utility in the game

[peak ice]

Why bring rogue when can bring grip boi

[fathom adder]

no need for grip

[lilac stag]

AMS or Cloak?
Atrophic or Grip?
440k health or 580k health?

[sick swift]

not the mention the general DR by having more armor as well!

[lilac stag]

ignore 8 yards and have 2 sprints or single sprint forced melee?

[hazy breach]

Theres very few things in pve where armor matters as a dps

[light finch]

Of the "original" classes of WoW we are the least played, if i was a class designer at blizzard that would ring some alarm bells.

It probably also has something to do with the fact that the perceived hurdles in the past made the class difficult to approach.

But in the current expansion, the Rogue is more beginner-friendly than it has been in a long time.

If you want to give this class a lifeline, just give them 2-3% raidcrit/haste buff and be done with it.

[sick swift]

and all but one attack in their kit is ranged so they're less hindered by the abundance of anti melee mechs

[lilac stag]

Pugged Imp last night after raid. 9 DKs in group.

[hazy breach]

Like the pounce from the lynx in spire and the archers in there are like the only things where armor matters this season i think?

[peak ice]

God that must be nice

[hazy breach]

Ig the barrage on caverns first boss

[peak ice]

My raid group is plagued by fuckn paladins

[wheat edge]

And then agi classes have higher base dodge chance!

[shell hollow]

Thanks for the reminder that evasion is a garbage defensive :^)

[small sleet]

Using dk for the baseline of what classes should be is a bit delusional. Like realistically right now we’re fine when it comes to most aspects of the game, and we’re by far not the worst class in the game

[fallow ingot]

tbf i think rogue is solid now on both st and AOE / cleave

[lilac stag]

At this point I think you’d be better off having 2x warrior over warrior + rogue for a second rally

[peak ice]

So is dk?

[lilac stag]

My guy we have ZERO cleave

[sick swift]

You guys remember when rogues were the most mobile class in the game?

[peak ice]

Frost is like topping the charts?

[hazy breach]

Idk if you compare us to anything but dks were good

[upbeat cradle]

I've been playing rogue only since WoW first came out, i'm too deep to pull out now

[small sleet]

For real, dks are just broken and everyone knows that

[lilac stag]

Have to compare the two classes without raid buffs

[upbeat cradle]

But DK have so much utility, AMZ, combat res

Grip

[small sleet]

Yeah but like, what do mages have

[upbeat cradle]

We shroud hurrdurr

BL, int raid buff

[peak ice]

In raid buff?

[lilac stag]

Still No raid buff

[somber sun]

Its dk bro, has to be like the lore

[small sleet]

Int doesn’t buff the dk though

[upbeat cradle]

Both of which are much more useful than what we provide

[upbeat cradle]

Yeha but they have great utility

[small sleet]

I am sure all the mages feel much better off than rogues right now lmao

[upbeat cradle]

If we don't have a raid buff we should at least have utility

[peak ice]

Mages have lust and a raid buff and solid damage?

[upbeat cradle]

Even if they nerf our dps to add a raid buff i wouldn't mind

[somber sun]

ehh

[peak ice]

Negative

[lilac stag]

there’s just a shit ton of bad mages that got found out after their 90 defensives were pruned

[upbeat cradle]

If that's what it takes for them to give us one

[small sleet]

Mage legit can’t even play m+ this season

[sick swift]

You guys wanna pull a ret paladin and shut down the discord until they buff us lol

[peak ice]

Warlock also has no raid buff

[sick swift]

lock has healthstones, demon gate and good damage

[peak ice]

Exactly

[upbeat cradle]

Gate, combat rez, health stone, again their lack of raid buff is compensated by the ton of utility they bring

[peak ice]

Exactly

[lilac stag]

Imagine a fight design without gate

[peak ice]

And they are up near top of damage

[upbeat cradle]

But us ? We barely have what qualifies as a raid buff and almost no utility

[small sleet]

Y’all are coping so hard lmao

[upbeat cradle]

They should give us bloodlust 😂

Whip our allies with poison to make them hit faster hurrdurr

Doping rogues

[small sleet]

Atrophic is good, but since it doesn’t work on some encounters y’all act like it’s not real

[upbeat cradle]

Oh it is great when it works

[sick swift]

The issue is that it can just not work man

[hazy breach]

Looks like I accidentally opened the boomkin channel

[upbeat cradle]

Most of what kills raids aren't affected by it tho

[dreamy root]

so good that people will literally not bring it 🙂

[small sleet]

Who is not bringing rogue at this point?

[peak ice]

We’re at the end of a season

No one cares now

If you’re trying to push cutting edge fast then u probably care though

[sick swift]

It'll be a relevant conversation again at start of s2 assuming no changes

[dreamy root]

do u balance the game around the end of the season or the start?

[small sleet]

If you’re not pushing world ranks you’re not getting benched, and if you’re pushing world ranks but want to stick to a certain class you’re trolling

[peak ice]

The start?

Or else you get benched for 3 weeks?

[dreamy root]

yep

[peak ice]

Like surely looking at team liquid almost bench the rogue and being like

“This is fine”

[wheat edge]

Make re-rolling harder, force everyone to stick to 1 char

[peak ice]

Is delusion

[fallow ingot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4y19rGC3Bg8LXHmc?fight=27&type=damage-done&targetclass=NPC 1st dps on boss, 4rd on crystals, what do u mean we have zero cleave ?

Stop being delusional about rogue, the whole classe is in a better shape vs the begining of the xpac

[hazy breach]

This but unironically

[fallow ingot]

as sub our 2P is too strong, we will not get tier set that good on S2

[wheat edge]

I wasnt being fully ironic, I think reroll meta is dumb as hell

[lilac stag]

keeps people playing

Want to push keys? Load up something else, until it’s tuned

[wheat edge]

Or just push on the class you like playing and do what you can (I know it ends up being stuck in lfg simulator, make solo q m+)

[lilac stag]

Want to fix it? Let each party member select 1 buff to bring at the start of a key.

[dreamy root]

load in with all buffs and call it a day

[wheat edge]

Buff scrolls based

[fallow ingot]

remove raid buffs that the solution

[small sleet]

Wat would that even change lmao people would still run a meta comp

[sick swift]

Or just give us a raid buff, really not that hard

[lilac stag]

Well you see, you remove all raid buffs and then all tanks are tuned the same, all dps are tuned the same and all healers are tuned the same. Your only real identify of the class or spec is your transmog.

[sick swift]

Like giving rogues a crit or haste aura wouldn't kill the game or the meta, it would just give us something, we had one in the past if I recall.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[wheat edge]

I dream of a game where you are like "oh this dungeon is perfect for single target stuns, lets grab a rogue"

[lilac stag]

Skyreach

[sick swift]

Or if they want to be extra on point for rogues, give us a crit damage amp raid aura, then we're perfect for fury warrior and fire mages lol

[lilac stag]

Don’t mind the rest of the dungeon

[wheat edge]

Yeah actually feels great to play last boss as Rogue

[lilac stag]

Until your pugs DR your stun

Like animals

[peak ice]

lol

[wheat edge]

Also feels unique compared to playing it on other classes

[wheat edge]

I do write it many times and make sure they know

[lilac stag]

No speaka da english

[sick swift]

Playing with rag players POV

[lilac stag]

nah playing with most Americans

[light finch]

2 Sec Kidney instead of 8.

[lilac stag]

I’ll take care of the stuns.
“Ok so you want me to stun?”

[hallow matrix]

anyone tried DS on mythic crown? or is it bad because of p3?

[lilac stag]

Why would p3 make it bad?

Just tunnel

[light finch]

the dream

[lilac stag]

That’s what you sign up for with

[sick swift]

Dear god valko

[prime mortar]

@vale pine Could i DM you for a bit of sim talk ?

[sick swift]

I would kill for more animations on rogue, those shadow clones go brrrrrrrrrr

[hallow matrix]

because it goes to 2T

[small sleet]

Do melee players even leave the boss in p3 for other guilds? We just had our ranged kill the miniboss

[wheat edge]

For melee p3 is st

[marble sail]

its ST for melee and most range

[lilac stag]

It is not.

[hallow matrix]

atm when we are doing it, the simulacrum + miniboss are stacked and melee switch

maybe we're doing it wrong

[marble sail]

uh

[peak ice]

Don’t they buff each other

Significantly

[marble sail]

u cant stack them

😭

[lilac stag]

You are and trickster isn’t doing any 2T dmg

[small sleet]

You can stack miniboss and simulacrum, just not miniboss and boss

[hallow matrix]

Looks fine stacked to me?

[peak ice]

Huh

[hallow matrix]

?

[small sleet]

We just stacked em and had ranged kill em

While melee stayed boss

[marble sail]

nvm i miss remembering it, been a while since i did alleria

ye u just have ur range solo them

and melee stays alleria

[lilac stag]

Melee, all 4 of you are ST on boss

[hallow matrix]

okay fair

I'll suggest just sit ST on it then

[marble sail]

melee on boss and ranged giga focus and solo them

[hallow matrix]

if that's the case, why are the top logs all trickster?

people just cba with DS and 1100 haste?

[light finch]

first phase ?

[sick swift]

p1

[marble sail]

because alleria is insanely RNG because of p1

[lilac stag]

Pads on first phase

[marble sail]

logs are super irrelevant lowkey

[light finch]

p1 damage is worthless, but warcraftlogs is flawed

[lilac stag]

Check boss dmg if you’re worried about logs

[marble sail]

u can have a god p1 and do shit the rest and still rank 1 log

[peak ice]

Ds only just got buffed too

[hallow matrix]

idk my voidspawn damage in p1 as trickster was fuck all anyway

[light finch]

its cheese on the last mini boss that does the damage p1

[marble sail]

yeah it should be, but the rank 1 logs are padding

[lilac stag]

Getting a full blades on 3rd boss in p1 vs holding blades for p2 is purple vs green parse

[crystal bone]

alleria is a trash fight, she kinda hot tho

[marble sail]

thats what we are saying

[crystal bone]

[peak ice]

Pad for the parse

[hallow matrix]

blades is back up for p2 burn with lust after like 14 seconds if you use it on 3rd miniboss

you just have to hold 1x dance

[lilac stag]

And you’re better off holding it and stacking SC charges for lust.

[hallow matrix]

you can stack SC in the intermission

i don't see how that's better

[lilac stag]

And then you’re doing nothing for 14 seconds

[hallow matrix]

plus lines up to get another blades before p3

[light finch]

i mean sub rogue has a class design that if you want to log good on some bosses you have to play bad on purpose if the overall idea is to killing the boss.

[hallow matrix]

i mean you're not because u can send dance/sectec

[lilac stag]

If you want boss dmg you save the blades

[ionic pendant]

hello guys what addons u using for tracking heroism or potion buff?

[lilac stag]

Just fire dances on third add

[marble sail]

acdm

[hazy breach]

Not really any reason to track em

[peak ice]

Just use the inbuilt wow one tbh

[marble sail]

thought he ment like this

[lilac stag]

Your add dmg on p1 is irrelevant. Pushing her as quickly as possible to 40% is relevant.

But do whatever you want

[hallow matrix]

top eu/na sub rogue log sends blades on 3rd add and also has the #1 log for boss damage

unless that includes the miniboss

[tepid trellis]

fwiw lust is generally really what ever

does fuck all

[marble sail]

very relevant it makes ur autoattacks fking own

[tepid trellis]

too bad they do fck all dmg

[lilac stag]

Gimme my sht stacks

[marble sail]

shit stacks

[tepid trellis]

BL being a whopping 1.7% dmg is a fcking joke

[marble sail]

yeah but u know when bl pops its time to do big dmg (even tho it dosnt matter)

[peak ice]

lol wtf is it only 1.7

[lilac stag]

Good for them. Are you a top rogue rekilling or are you a later tier ce rogue progging? I know where I fall and where my blades times were more useful.

[tepid trellis]

cuz lust doesent do anything for sub

its just Auto dmg

you already overcap ShT stacks

[tribal blade]

we're already mega saturated with sht stacks

in blades

[marble sail]

does %haste count towards the dance cdr?

[cursive vapor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hazy breach]

!haste

[tepid trellis]

dance doesent have cdr

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[hallow matrix]

why do you come across so grumpy? i'm just trying to discuss and enjoy the game lol

[marble sail]

would bl be an actual value for DS?

[hallow matrix]

bigger number = 🙂

[hazy breach]

Their autoattack do more damage

So yeah slightly more

[lilac stag]

Not grumpy at all. It’s text on a screen. I’ll add smiles for you. 😃

[sick swift]

Is there a reason it takes a moment for SD to factor in LCG?

[lilac stag]

See. I’m jolly.

[marble sail]

huge

[tepid trellis]

just the way the duration talent is coded

it updates the haste rating every 1 sec

[sick swift]

Thank you

[hallow matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/fireworks-gif-1570415625338778120

[tepid trellis]

fwiw we were told they were looking into it

but no ETA at all for when

that might happen

[hazy breach]

They tried fixing it stealthi

[sick swift]

Real, valuable info on understanding our spec 🙂

[hazy breach]

The lockout that prevents you from casting dance while dance is active benefits from it always

[lilac stag]

It’ll get fixed on DK first.

[hazy breach]

So if you macro guidon+dance, your dance will run out ~1 second before you can press a new dance

[tepid trellis]

yeh

i know

[peak ice]

Probs some ancient code

[hazy breach]

Also fwiw BL is a whopping 1.9% instead of 1.7% for deathstalker

[light finch]

im just glad that haste is worth something and not a dead stat 😉

[tepid trellis]

its likely not old

[marble sail]

so what ur saying is everyone should go DS NOW

[tepid trellis]

Hunt them down going brrrrt

[lilac stag]

so what ur saying is everyone should go DS DK NOW

fixed

[marble sail]

everyone should go assa DS is what i got from what eleem said

[lilac stag]

Be sure to tell Whispyr hi for me

[hazy breach]

Yes

[sick swift]

Sin got that BC rotation/playstyle frfr

[marble sail]

just u wait, i will be posting my 100 logs going DS + sudden demise

[light finch]

next time on maplestory

[marble sail]

✅

doing gods work in these boost runs

[ionic pendant]

is it showing buff ?
im using arc ui i have cd tracking of potion, and when i installing acdm it all to needs to be reconfigured.

is acdm have abilities to track heroism buff and potion buff?

[marble sail]

acdm allows u to add whatever buff u want

[trail rover]

this guy is a grumpy blue parsing online warrior, where every message is condescending/belittling just ignore him

[ionic pendant]

ok ty

[lilac stag]

You should be able to track lust in arc. If not NSRT has it too I think.

[marble sail]

basically add whatever u wanna see

[tight fjord]

I’m back in the chat after achieving 20 resil and trying to prog further and I’ve made more conclusions

We are not strong enough

[small sleet]

wat

I even goat emojid you

You can’t just show weakness like that

[tight fjord]

Lmao

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cigar-barish-image-gif-26607457

[tight fjord]

Reldo I saw you played some with my buddy Roger

[small sleet]

Oh hell yeah roger is really good

[tribal blade]

oh shit is sudden demise back

[lilac stag]

The dk name is hilarious

[marble sail]

i win

[hazy breach]

Probably not no

[tight fjord]

Reldo I was playing guardian, rsham, ret dk subt. Thinking ok we’re not synergizing but at least we’re all getting those two important buffs

I’m getting gapped man

[tribal blade]

ahhh ok haha

[hollow spear]

I'd blame my gaming chair

[sick swift]

Real

[tight fjord]

I have a good chair

[sick swift]

But you don't have a better chair

[marble sail]

we are timing seat 21 and SR 21 with sp, arms, assa

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/game-win-winner-loser-lose-gif-24344220

[tight fjord]

Timing the keys in 21 is fine. I don’t like getting gapped by dk/ret when we’re all on the Druid shaman buff, it doesn’t add up

[lilac stag]

Imagine if you swapped the rogue out for a dk

[marble sail]

ok lets calm down here a little bit

i bring sudden demise and DS

[small sleet]

Assa is really good in seat

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[small sleet]

Prio damage super nice in there

[marble sail]

we are absolutely horrid in skyreach tho

im literally there to kidney 3rd and last boss

[peak ice]

I hate seat

[lilac stag]

But your kidney shot

[hazy breach]

Lies

[marble sail]

indeed are

DS with that comp is lowkey useless, all our big mobs dies before the smallies

[hazy breach]

Thats why you get demise

[marble sail]

ok now we are talking

[peak ice]

Sudden demise is just for low keys right?

[marble sail]

ill go for it next key

[marble sail]

clearly not, jesus eleem claims its bis everywhere

[lilac stag]

idk arms is lighting up the biggie. finish off the smols

[marble sail]

people keep forgetting that sudden demise is insane on boss aswell for big execution

[hazy breach]

I genuinely dont think its that bad, in sims its like 4% worse, but the execute isnt included in there. On something like the tentacles in seat its actually really good

[marble sail]

my warrior wants me to play it all the time

he loves troll comps

[tight fjord]

Subt needs the 20% on black powder back again and the world will be a better place, period

[tribal blade]

when i was pushing as sin during S2 TWW

there were moments where demise executes were really nice

esp if you got a huge demise hit

on mobs that had to die fast

[hazy breach]

I did some 19s with a friend yesterday

[tribal blade]

chef's kiss

[hazy breach]

And it was really nice on totems on last boss maisara

[tribal blade]

i can see that yeah

[hazy breach]

But the singletarget is big oof

Especially coming from sub

[peak ice]

All in in assa?

[marble sail]

my friend cooked a build that didnt loose that much in ST while gaining sudden demise

[tribal blade]

yeah i love the ST as sub atm

[clear garnet]

why is it that I see Archon listing ppl at 600 Haste with LCGuidon rather than the recommended 700 haste?

[peak ice]

Cause they don’t read

[marble sail]

people follow sim instead of what is being said is generally better

[hazy breach]

Or archon just rounds down, so if somebody has 640 haste without oils

[tribal blade]

the top sub rogues are now running ~700 haste with guidon

[hazy breach]

It rounds down to 600

[tribal blade]

if you look at their profiles

[peak ice]

If there’s not a subway surfers video next to it half the people are just gonna scroll past

[hazy breach]

Idk what archon does

[clear garnet]

noted, thank ya boys

[tribal blade]

i suspect they're getting into the super high key territory and their ST with low haste is no bueno anymore

[marble sail]

archon is also very bad because if someone is trolling it makes the statistics worse

[peak ice]

I mean it’s not bad

[marble sail]

just go to murlok.io and see what the top 50 are actually running

[small sleet]

I’m gonna run some 1100 haste trickster keys to balance it out

[sick swift]

lmao

[hazy breach]

Btw regarding this, i have a cook @small sleet hear me out

[marble sail]

not all heroes were capes

[clear garnet]

also Crit = Mastery ya? Ive been playing Outlaw and Assass but been struggling on Outlaw and cant find help

I do fine as sub so just thinking of going full time sub

[small sleet]

Oh I’m excited for this

[peak ice]

On trickster yes

[clear garnet]

anyways my gear is very crit heavy

[tribal blade]

me too

[peak ice]

On ds mastery is slightly better

[hazy breach]

Drop danse, drop PP > 2x finality + dark brew.
Sims around the same for aoe but ~1.5% bigger in ST

[peak ice]

But it’s also much of much

[tribal blade]

interesting

[clear garnet]

ds?

[marble sail]

do not let the public know about this tech

[tribal blade]

you know what i might run this in keys at some point

it sounds cool

[hazy breach]

And youre probably thinking "but it doesnt sim higher it sims like 1% behind in big aoe when i do the sim?"

Thats true

[tight fjord]

Pp?

[tribal blade]

do you lose significant prio in aoe?

potent powder

[hazy breach]

But the potent powder not working on ancient arts bug isnt in simc, which loses it about 1%, so theyre pretty similar

[peak ice]

Death stalker hero tree

[hazy breach]

No

[tribal blade]

oh ok nice

[clear garnet]

OH ty.

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm gonna run that build and fuck around

it sounds good

[small sleet]

But my reck pot value would go down and then I can’t feel alive anymore

[hazy breach]

It doesnt go down that much

[small sleet]

It does vibes wise

[hazy breach]

Because db makes shadow clones hit harder

[tribal blade]

i kinda miss running DB ngl

[hazy breach]

Or well, it doesnt make shadowstrike, storm or backstab clones hit harder

[tribal blade]

i love the idea of the talent

[hazy breach]

But it does make bp clones hit harder

[tribal blade]

wait why doesn't it buff builder clones

[hazy breach]

They forgot to include them in the whitelist

[tribal blade]

LOL

[swift tinsel]

[tribal blade]

bruh i'm dead

[small sleet]

[ornate lake]

What kind of warp sorcery is this build

[swift tinsel]

Literal meme spec

[tribal blade]

i suppose the finisher clone dmg is what matters most on sub anyways

[small sleet]

I’m down to try this build and see how it feels

[peak ice]

Is it a meme or is it actually good though

[tribal blade]

and then you're not running PP which is a dead talent on pure ST

[tight fjord]

So I’m gonna drop pp/danse for dark brew and finality and I’ll compete with rets and dk?

[radiant swift]

so it doesnt work on stec and it doesnt work on bp? thats just 2/3 finishers

[tribal blade]

it sounds decent

i'm gonna try it out

[small sleet]

Eleem said it’s the new build and he doesn’t lie you have to switch right now

[hazy breach]

I have no idea what you are saying or how its related to my message

[tight fjord]

Maybe I’ll at least kill the bosses harder without losing much aoe

Fun

[peak ice]

So what is the aoe loss?

[tribal blade]

eleem said neutral aoe

and +1.5% ST

[peak ice]

And no downside?

[tribal blade]

charrend already fucked around with x2 finality and no PP

and did well

[ornate lake]

Kick gaming

[tight fjord]

Imma go run my sims

[tribal blade]

so i think this one will be good too

[small sleet]

2x finality no pp is terrible

Imo

[tribal blade]

oh is it? damn

i never actually used that in any keys

[radiant swift]

just foubd it funny how it just doesnt work on most things

i did have to add half of the time since one of them is due to premed

[peak ice]

I’ve accidentally used my raid build in a couple keys and not really noticed

[small sleet]

Like you’ll still do fine aoe with it, but it’s just worse, and st gain from another point in finality isnt that substantial

[jagged coyote]

is the new dungeon build using DS?

[small sleet]

No

Ds stinks in m+

[jagged coyote]

Thank god

[tribal blade]

casting evis that often on DS

can't do competitive aoe

also sectec doing much less

[dusky yacht]

I might legit stay Trickster, I am a sectec enjoyer

[small sleet]

You can, there’s no need to swap

[jagged coyote]

Trickster just flows better imo

[timid pulsar]

I can finally flame my group and have proof to back it up

[swift tinsel]

Without Quietus DS would flow so much better

Was getting really fucking annoyed with it last night

[ornate lake]

Trickster is the only rogue hero tree that has any decent audio visual feedback

Otherwise you have coin flipper and poop stalker

[swift tinsel]

Also having to cancelaura apex

[dusky yacht]

Where can you see this stuff

[timid pulsar]

Carried.io

[dusky yacht]

Awesome

I’m gonna egomaxx

[timid pulsar]

Pretty meme site but its fun to see stuff from keys

[swift tinsel]

Like in-dance DS probably more satisfying than trickster in st

[fossil forge]

I started a plague with the site

[random mason]

Wtf is that tool

[swift tinsel]

Pre-dance you’re auto attacking for 3-5 business days sometimes

[timid pulsar]

Kickmaxxing

[dusky yacht]

Watch as the consequences of your actions ripple through these lands, Teekoh. You did this. All of it.

[ornate lake]

Carried.io

[fossil forge]

Hey its pretty useful If you have logged runs tbh

[latent remnant]

time to see the confirmation that I just get carried

[hazy breach]

Alright lads my sectech is coming up in 10 seconds so i can no longer press any buttons

[small sleet]

I got up and closed my door in the middle of a lura pull last night cuz no glaives were nearby

[timid pulsar]

Tww s3 tierset calling

[swift tinsel]

Gives me time to snack

[dusky yacht]

during encounter

‘Afk guys sectec cooldown’

[swift tinsel]

TWW s2 set people tilted off the face of the earth thinking they’d have to cast no finishers for 20 sec

[latent remnant]

i had one really bad dungeon but that aside all looks okay

[timid pulsar]

Oh it was s2 my bad

[swift tinsel]

The gamba set

[timid pulsar]

That shit was fun man

[swift tinsel]

Meanwhile Akaari clones would independently gain or lose stacks

So Sectech damage swung wildly

[timid pulsar]

I could grab a new monster before every cd set

[swift tinsel]

From the same cast

But hey at least we have more clones now

[random mason]

[swift tinsel]

Which are bricking diabolist locks

Huehuehue

[tribal blade]

hear me out, build 1500 haste as DS

to reduce sectec cd even more

[random mason]

does the activity thing track GCD effectiveness

[swift tinsel]

Getting trolled by sht stacks pre-dance is my new 13th reason

[random mason]

cause that's cooked for sub rogue

[latent remnant]

idk why the site says two of my keys were depleted when they weren't

[random mason]

yeah

[latent remnant]

oh wait thats restarts nvm

I'm blind

[dusky yacht]

We’re full on ego-maxxin’ boys

[dreamy sundial]

Love it

[latent remnant]

I'm still trash with a lot to learn

[steady osprey]

Since we're only using one sec tech in the blades window for Deathstalker, is the 1100 haste breakpoints strictly for dance length/energy regen?

[latent remnant]

dance length to fit two DN

[dusky yacht]

[steady osprey]

Thank you!

[random mason]

on my tank

I'm the 2nd coming of christ

i should be a tank main

[latent remnant]

I remember playing really badly this dungeon

[dusky yacht]

I mean some of it is a bit meme tho, it includes the untimed 1 min resil bricked keys with monke teams

[sick swift]

What addon/website are you guys using for that

[random mason]

carried.io

[sick swift]

Gracias

[random mason]

it also includes keys where the log broke and weekly keys on my rogue where i DEFINITELY don't care about perfect performance

[peak ice]

Huh

[dusky yacht]

Damn

Jello actual terrorist

[peak ice]

Am I

Carried

[north schooner]

0% activity

[peak ice]

.io

[north schooner]

antiwork legend

[crystal bone]

me trying out outlaw

[peak ice]

70% awareness though

[dusky yacht]

Israel is looking for Jello they wanna talk to him

[dusky yacht]

So you were aware of what you were doing

A confession.

[peak ice]

I was aware I was doing 0 damage

[dusky yacht]

[peak ice]

But also inactive

For 27mjn

[random mason]

very serious gaming

[dusky yacht]

Sitting there. Staring at the screen. Petting his cat. Sipping his tea. Looking at tiktok dances.

[west slate]

is the haste breakpoint for hitting your second secret techniques in shadow blade w/ shadow dance too unobtainable without Light's Guidon?

or simply not worth the stat trade off

[lilac stag]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[dusky yacht]

This is your favourite command prove me wrong

[peak ice]

Why does that nexus thing long to a key I’m not even in

[small sleet]

It just not worth it to reach it

[west slate]

sorry, I read this as just for getting 2nd secret tech in shadow blade without shadow dance

[peak ice]

Am I a ghost?

[west slate]

thank you

[dusky yacht]

If logs doesn’t see you, do you even exist?

[peak ice]

Deep

[dusky yacht]

And this is how we go from carried.io memeposting straight to existential crisis

[lilac stag]

If you’re running PB get the 800 haste. You’re already swimming in mastery.

unless you’re like 275 ilvl

[west slate]

I have box but when my stuff lines up I cant take it

[peak ice]

Huh

[dusky yacht]

Have you considered the following:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1035163024480276640/1495101632759730388/puzzle_box_1.gif

[lilac stag]

You turn PB into a 3 minute trinket.

[west slate]

sorry havent had my coffee

[timid rose]

i turned PB into an enchanting crystal 😄

[west slate]

I mean doesn't line up

[lilac stag]

The gcds in dance + Sectech are worth it,

[peak ice]

800 haste if you want to use the box

[steady osprey]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[lilac stag]

Treat Box as 3 mins and it lines up

keep farming guidon

[west slate]

[lilac stag]

all there is to it

[random mason]

vibe coded I'm sure

[west slate]

just seeing that second secret technique inside of shadow dance would be so nice

outside of lust

[dusky yacht]

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[west slate]

hitting it raw feels wrong

[lilac stag]

You shouldn’t be hitting it raw. There’s reasons for the hate break points

[west slate]

I mean in shadow blades, yes

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[west slate]

but it doesn't say to delay my second shadow dance inside of shadow blades just for the secret technique

unless I missed it

[small sleet]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[peak ice]

Someone get subway surfer

[west slate]

fuck me

thank you

[lilac stag]

you gave 20 seconds of blades. You cast 2nd dance with 8 second left of blades

[west slate]

I am just a healer main, I'm sorry

[peak ice]

You’re good

[lilac stag]

Don’t worry. We’re a 2 button spec.

[west slate]

healing easy role, never have to line up cooldowns like this

[somber sun]

sadge

[lilac stag]

Very healer friendly.

[somber sun]

you should try outlaw, its kinda the same with one additional button

[west slate]

I prefer to see the floor

[peak ice]

Outlaw has great floor pov

[west slate]

instead of cosplaying a cs map

I was healing those outlaws lost in the clouds

[somber sun]

throwing smoke 🗣️

[dusky yacht]

I wonder how many smoke lineups I remember

[somber sun]

there aren't that much if you do premier

[dusky yacht]

I was playing faceit

[somber sun]

[dusky yacht]

Knew like 2-3 per map

[somber sun]

sorry sir

[dusky yacht]

Minimum

[somber sun]

yeah obv

[dusky yacht]

And then you actually play faceit and some guy jumps into your throw and you smoke your own team ‘… rotate boys’

Faceit, where all the pros play coughs uncontrollably

[vale pine]

sure

[crystal bone]

sim talk is code for u know

[alpine wraith]

fuu about to get offered free nitro

[crystal bone]

[upbeat cradle]

Wdym 2 buttons I use the one button

[whole nimbus]

Coup de Grace / Black Powder macro doesn't work in Shadow Dance for me, anyone knows why?

[red vortex]

check if its on ur bar

stealth and non stealth has different bars

[whole nimbus]

Yeah eviscerate is there when I'm in stealth

[red vortex]

that is not what i mean

checek if the macro is on both bars

in both stances

[whole nimbus]

i might be stupid

that makes sense

tyty

[timid rose]

you can just use generic #showtooltip without the spell ability to have it show you which spell is being picked, also found that if you're out of melee range that black powder will fire off and it won't hit coup

[whole nimbus]

It appears i forgot to add the macro to stealth bar, mind boggling

It works now

[grand viper]

Too much zaza for the cat

[somber sun]

[alpine wraith]

that is the classic

[sullen hare]

Break out the meme

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1508963645311422524/03861D50-DA46-435F-BD50-819B0644D123.png?ex=6a1abf28&is=6a196da8&hm=70af4ff3398cc49af723b490ba0e00d47709ee3a1e2ad753f4916a4ab91a4d72&

[slim crow]

hello, is there a reason i shouldnt craft aetherlume bands? seems like its just better than the 50/50 stat option

[swift tinsel]

you can if you need extra haste

esp for DS

[slim crow]

i can craft it with mastery too tho?

[swift tinsel]

if you don't feel like bonus rolling Pit for bracers there

as long as you hit the appropriate haste breakpoint for your gear/hero tree

[lilac stag]

our secondary stats are all very close so losing ilvl or total stat value not great.

2 embellishments make up for the ilvl loss

[slim crow]

im playing trickster idk if the talents changed after the patchnotes

but im fine on haste for it

at 600 or so and i havent upgraded anything yet

[lilac stag]

684 is minimum

so you’re not fine

[slim crow]

and im kinda low on bonus rolls already cuz ive been using them to gear

[slim crow]

im 258 ilvl tho

by the time im properly geared i will be

[lilac stag]

How are you 258 if you’ve been bonus rolling gear?

[slim crow]

got some low ilvl pieces

started doing 10s at 210 to get some myth gear haha

seems to be the fastest atp

[lilac stag]

well you seem to have it figured out and don’t want the advice then.

[somber sun]

he wanna make sure bro

[slim crow]

oh ye nw i dont mean it like

in a bad way or anything

i just wanted to know if theres a reason not to craft these bracers cuz they seem v good

[lilac stag]

Bracers and cloak are prime spots for embellishments.

Ilvl > crafted single stat piece unless you need it for haste cap

[slim crow]

i mean these are my current bracers so im just crafting them to get my ilvl up

if i get a better replacement somewhere down the road ill just replace it again

but i got a hero waist and myth cloak alr so i dont need to replace those yet

meant this one *

[lilac stag]

So craft 246 items

246 crafts are free. 259 just need the spark

A myth cloak is overall useless compared to every other slot but wrists and oh

if you’re just trying to pad ilvl make whatever

if you don’t want to craft a cloak (which I understand) make wrists, oh or belt with embellishments (2/3 of them )

make them 259 of you don’t want to spend crests

Not that complicated

[slim crow]

i already have an OH im just asking wether there is a reason to not go these wrists over normal crafted wrists

like 285 crafted but stat split

[somber sun]

he can lowkey spam champ boxes next to the timeways portal yoo, nah?

[lilac stag]

You can farm full champ gear in no time with ritual sites

They’re free on rogue

[sterile sky]

how did you get so off topic from someone just asking if single stat bracers are worth it over dual stat ones (both crafted)

[somber sun]

yeah so just open boxes then

[warm marlin]

here are the reasons:

1. full bis you may not want crafted bracers at all (irrelevant with your gear)
2. split stats are sometimes better than a pure stat (much more relevant with high ilvl)
3. you already want to spam bonus rolls in pit, making you very likely to get bracers that way. if you already have myth crest achievement you're unnecessarily extending your crest grind a fair bit
4. they can't have regular embellishments from what I remember, so if for some reason this is your second craft you'll be missing arcanoweave for a bit

[somber sun]

why bother doing those lame ahh instances

[lilac stag]

The answer no wasn’t enough.

[slim crow]

thank you.

[sterile sky]

see i think if you said "no dont make them it's not worth it" anywhere it wouldve been an easy thing no?

[warm marlin]

I don't think it's a big difference

if I was still playing sub in raid I would want some engi bracers for the big haste ds gaming

[slim crow]

i didnt spam pit for gear tho cuz its impossible to get invited at lowilvl

so i just kinda did w.e

but ill just craft the normal ones then <3 tyvm

[lilac stag]

He was literally told they’re worth it for haste breakpoint and that is it.

[slim stag]

Hey real quick question I just did some pulls on mythic paladins last night and I feel like sub just sucks all that boss which one's better assassination or outlaw

[crystal bone]

that's because it does suck on paladins

[golden coral]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[slim stag]

Ok so I'm going to need to lean outlaw

[crystal bone]

i would play sin

[slim stag]

Ok yes I was not looking for to roll the bones fucking me lol

[crystal bone]

1. u already have the gear for it if u have box
2. way less mental required for sin than law on rotation, allows more focus on prog mechanics

definitely dont want to learn a new spec AND prog

u'll end up doing less than a peak sub

[hazy breach]

Also its not a dps fight at all, youre mostly just surviving and waiting for your healers and tanks to learn the fight

[slim stag]

Well I'm new to rogue I played ret but it was get very boring

[hazy breach]

So playing sub is completely fine as you are tankier than the other specs

[graceful osprey]

This is depression

[crystal bone]

also that, i was just assuming u knew sin as well as sub

[slim stag]

Ok thanks you guys for the help 🙂

[leaden prairie]

what is this propaganda im hearing about the old stones

tried to sim them it didnt seem good, and i think its simming properly, the crit part at least appear in stats so i would assume the weapon damage thing also works

[serene notch]

i think @hazy breach mentioned it was a 1% gain?

they were talking about it yesterday and was curious myself

[warm marlin]

Should only be good on mainhand if you did both

[leaden prairie]

i see

why is that

let me check

[warm marlin]

Offhand dps is irrelevant

Secondaries good

[leaden prairie]

hm

ok

[hazy breach]

The weapondamage thing does not work

Unless theyve added it recently

[leaden prairie]

i see

did you add a custom something or did you math it out

i have no clue what 4 weapon damage even mean imma be honest

[lucid jackal]

You know when u do stat weights

Its this stat

[leaden prairie]

i see

[lucid jackal]

so what, the other stone gives like

16 haste and crit right?

[leaden prairie]

ye i guess you cna math it out

let me check

[warm marlin]

you also have to add in attack speed right

because it’s flat damage

[lucid jackal]

wouldnt stat weights just figure that out

[warm marlin]

well that’s weapon dps but the stone is damage

not that it adds a lot of complexity but

[lucid jackal]

R u sure thats how it works in the sim

[warm marlin]

nop

[lucid jackal]

LOL

I would assume that it just looks at weapon damage

not actual weapon DPS

Even tho thats what it says

[hazy breach]

I dont think its a 1-1 weapon dps situation, all i know is that bleeds on assa do like 1.6% more damage with them up

[warm marlin]

Someone get an attack power expert in here

[hazy breach]

And thats more damage than you get from 28 secondaries (which is like 0.6% of a stat)

[leaden prairie]

hm

[hazy breach]

Idk its silly how they havent fixed them yet

[warm marlin]

Im really curious why they don’t use them on 2H

[leaden prairie]

im not sure its worth on outlaw

quick math telling me its at most .2% ahead

[warm marlin]

Like I assume the flat wdps isn’t worth but idk if I trust

[lucid jackal]

Its suggested to be used on arms

So like

[warm marlin]

Hmm

[lucid jackal]

and ret I think

I think some class guides just don't acknowledge its existance

[warm marlin]

I tried to search the dh discord and I was the first person to ever mention them there

[hazy breach]

I think most were expecting it to get fixed alongside the enchant shit in prepatch

They just never did

[lucid jackal]

Only melee DPS abuse it and melee is bad

Shrimple

[leaden prairie]

ye idk

[lucid jackal]

My monk got fucking juiced this week btw

Bonus rolled alnseer

Got bracers, gloves, and pants from raid

[hazy breach]

Idk pretty sure its worth it on outlaw too

[lucid jackal]

Only thing missing is lura ring atp

[leaden prairie]

idk

if i do the math with weapon dps from stat weights

[lucid jackal]

Its probs worth but its like 0.2% damage either way

[leaden prairie]

it would be worth 0.2% dps

[warm marlin]

My dk just needs chim boots for fullbis

[leaden prairie]

at most

with my gear

[warm marlin]

Crazy rng ngl

[graceful rock]

after getting the alleria neck I have ran into an issue, i have too much haste

[leaden prairie]

now is the weapon dps stat weight thingy the maths i should be doing idk

[lucid jackal]

I don't believe in WW bis sims it doesnt make sense to me

[warm marlin]

I don’t even want to try to understand unholy sims

[warm marlin]

Those things are a black box of 18 million damage events and pet interactions

[lucid jackal]

Kinda crazy how juiced u can get

[hazy breach]

Assa aoe sims legit take 5-10x as long as sub ones

[warm marlin]

On a big pack in a key I can fill an entire page with damage events in 20 milliseconds

On wcl

[lucid jackal]

WW is too fun though

[warm marlin]

20 little ghouls 10 magi normal pet abom and 15 different interactions between all of them

Oh and 4 rider guys

[frail kindle]

wait

the warlock sub rogue blade pulling shit is propaganda right

[leaden prairie]

dont think so

i have read it multiple times now

that when wl plays with rogues they pull shit

[frail kindle]

well ill be

ty

[fierce kite]

Hi guys I’m so frustrated and disappointed. My sim are uncomprehending.

For you which combinaison of trinkets are better in rogue sub for mm+:

gaze in 285 ilvl
Guidon in 285 ilvl
Puzzle box in 298 ilvl but 3min CD on use
Radiant plume in 285 ilvl

Simcraft said me puzzle box298 and gaze 285

But all rogue play with guidon and gaze!!

So what can I do?

[lucid jackal]

guidon + gaze

[left ledge]

puzzle box is by no means a bad trinket for sub rogue

guidon is just better

in m+ you can play puzzlebox if you'd like

its pretty nice on aoe

ive played both and had similar overalls so

[clear garnet]

is this stat spread using a Haste Flask okay (no feather no guidon)

[graceful rock]

weakauras, my beloved

[lilac stag]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[clear garnet]

[vale pine]

join the dark side

[timid pulsar]

This a thing for both DS and trickster?

[hazy breach]

The context is m+

IE not deathstalker

[timid pulsar]

DS for sure sleeper in m+

[warm marlin]

We looked at some logs and clips in here with a warlock guy recently

[timid pulsar]

lets run it

[warm marlin]

It seems like if they proc apex around the exact same time a sub clone is spawned they can pull out of combat packs

[hollow spear]

It's so sleeper that it'll get you kicked for low dmg

[azure lynx]

Hello Everyone. I just noticed the macro I used for days/weeks in wrong. I used to have one macro that did, in order : Guidon, light's potentiel, shadow dance, shadow blades, secret tech. I understand now that it's very wrong because the wrong stats are boosted.

I changed it now to pot, guidon, SD, SB, ST but now I'm looking at the 1 sec delay necessary between the trinket and the shadow dance.

Can anyone give me some guidance on best practices ?

[warm marlin]

Light's potential is just primary stat, it's only recklessness pot that you need to press before guidon

but yes there is a 1s delay, you can have guidon on a separate button, press and count 1 second then press your pot/sd/sb/st macro

[mortal arch]

also you don't want to guidon and dance at the same time

[warm marlin]

or have a tracker for guidon buff duration and press the sd/sb/st macro when it hits 14s

[upbeat cradle]

who has the puzzle box gif ?

[azure lynx]

ok, it was not too bad then. Thanks you for the replies ! It makes sense 😄

in M+, do you prefer light's potential or recklessness ?

[warm marlin]

the best simming is to recklessness pot in aoe and lights potential in st

but having 2 potion binds is cringe

[azure lynx]

you end up using only light's then ?

[warm marlin]

well I personally swapped to udk but if I had to pick one probably light's ye

more st always good

[twilit gorge]

I just macro lights into CDs and send reckless when it's time to aoe

[warm marlin]

I think for some profiles reck pot is very close in st so it probably makes more sense there to just always use reck pot

[azure lynx]

Ok, I will think about it! thanks

wow I got 1,5 sec more of shadow dance by waiting 1 sec as advised

now I need to make it a habit ^^'

[lucid jackal]

Just pretend that blades is a global

[azure lynx]

yea, so now I'm using a hard press on the trinket, and then wait 1 sec and push

[vagrant sinew]

thats fine yes

[shell hollow]

Might wanna use itemIDs for your light's potential unless you only carry one quality

[west tide]

i love ds

eviscerate did more than the light damage on my details when we killed lura

everyone else had the light #1 dam

[azure lynx]

Yes I do, but I'll keep that in mind 🙂

[dusky yacht]

Guys when you cloak and get hit by Corrupting Essence (debuff from small adds first phase mythic cosmos), does wclogs count these as actual hits?

There is something funky going on with the logs. I am highest in getting hit by far (I use cloak to cover Shadow Blades as much as I can), but I have the highest uptime of 0 stacks?

[lilac stag]

Stop standing in them?

[lucid jackal]

Some mechanics if you cloak them will still show up as "hits"

even if you dont gain any stacks

[lilac stag]

you should see the healing needed to get taken off you if you’re actually in them

[warm marlin]

you're probably still stopping the add from gaining the damage taken increase

[lilac stag]

Your obelisk baiting should keep you out of most of them. The 3rd add is sketch if you see them.

[graceful rock]

I’m having so much fun on DS i can’t lie

[runic sinew]

I'm simming this and for me was worst for aoe and just better for single

[hazy breach]

Did you try reading the context

[vale pine]

nicu!

[runic sinew]

because AA don't works fine with PP, just for m+ and BP hit harder with Dark brew? If that's it, yes

or i miss something more?

[ashen warren]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1496904285932224572/puzzlebox.gif

[upbeat cradle]

thanks

[vale pine]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1035163024480276640/1495101632759730388/puzzle_box_1.gif

[lilac stag]

You missed something more. Specifically what you asked

Keep reading. #subtlety message

[somber sun]

sorry fuu, is this grief ?

[vagrant fossil]

The amount of time I just spent trying to figure out what to drop when Eleem wrote "danse" was astounding

[sly shore]

is this opener?

how's that happen

with premed

[random mason]

no premed

[sly shore]

someone hasn't updated their talents

[vale pine]

if you got the benfits from haste for dance, seems fine

[dusky yacht]

Doesn't read like it in the tooltip but may be possible I don't know

[warm marlin]

I swear one of the tooltips says the closest target gets the debuff

But maybe not

[vale pine]

i like the cook

[ionic python]

In big aoe im losing 5.7% https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/snMU6xHBgPCR9XsmQBa9Bi is that still considered an upgrade

Guess its because of the pot

[hollow raptor]

only real micro adjustment might be moving vanish to inside SB i think?

[vagrant fossil]

Well, you'd remove some of it because PP doesn't work with AA

This is the gap I see in a Dungeon Splice. Keys being the build Eleem mentioned

[vale pine]

comeback of the brew

[hot depot]

So I took a decent break from the game a little after undermine came back and been trying to get back into things wanted to try out rogue again would anyone be willing to take a look at some different key logs to see where my largest areas of improvement are.

[vagrant fossil]

10 targets, 1.5 minutes with mastery flask + reck pot

1 target, 3 minutes

[lilac stag]

you can use !log but key logs aren’t exactly “easy” to pick apart. Post a couple ST boss fights if you can.

[vagrant fossil]

Definitely see a reason to swap over even though reptile brain goes "No PP, black powder no damage"

[ionic python]

Im losing 1.4% in this case, seems a bit more then u

[hot depot]

Ill try to hop in raid and go that route thanks

[vale pine]

dungeons are annoying to analyze from logs alone

vods are typically better, but it still takes a long time

[serene notch]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[lilac stag]

@vale pine I tossed a bell on DN buff. Feel like Pavlov’s Dog. Bell goes off, trigger apex.

[random furnace]

!log

[mint fulcrum]

hey, just swapped to sub from assa, but my stats are obviosuly not the best, i recrafted a few items, but theres still smth that doesnt add up, 1st boss voidspire trinket is simming worse than mythic gaze + mythic puzzle box, im not sure if its only stats that is fucking it up, also crit flask is simming higher than mastery. i will drop the sim here if anyone could have a quick peak - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hB5kcXjtuS8dfyobYs1C8m
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gHu1WBEuuyNud2uSd76aUL

[pale hemlock]

for the sectec/dance macro do we put sectec or dance first?

[west tide]

dance 🕺

guys midnight so far one of the goated expansions

lura goated boss

[zenith flare]

I like that they made everything very simple good players can still shine and you dont need 300 weak auras to play your class properly

[pure jay]

i don't think I ever broke 30 weakauras

[lucid jackal]

I'm loving midnight

[west tide]

its so good man

one of my first times doing an alt at the same time too and they bis ahh

good game

[lucid jackal]

Managed to get my entire monk to nearly full bis in like 2 resets

I think 3 now

[west tide]

sheesh thats sick

monk looks sweet

[vale pine]

lol

[pale hemlock]

Ty. Last quick question, we ALWAYS wanna hold dance for sectec right. Like say we have a dance charge and 7 seconds left for sectec, we hold dance until sectec is up before popping at 6+ CP right

[lucid jackal]

Ww is fun

It's like sub rogue in mfo where fof does like, 80% of ur damage

[lilac stag]

did you run any other alts this tier or is ww first?

[lucid jackal]

I had a paladin on launch but we have too many paladins

And then I have the warrior that I've upkept all expac

[lilac stag]

I got my warrior to 286. Fury still feels mostly like fury. Arms still feels like it needs some further iteration.

[mortal arch]

this was a tooltip in the mythic dungeon journal at launch but was always incorrect (maybe a remnant of some development version)

they fixed the tooltip at some point

[desert oasis]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[desert oasis]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[lucid jackal]

Ppl say every spec is basic and then I play colossus arms

[spiral folio]

Hey guys, for spire duo boss (Latch & Kalis) do you black powder or evis?

[lucid jackal]

With like 10 buttons and conditionals

[lilac stag]

Not basic, arms has one too many buttons I think still

I hate slam.

Fdk > sub = arms for me from fun wise from the 3 classes

I haven’t had a chance to play colossus with a tank pulling adds into boss

ST is depressing

[warm marlin]

I kind of wanted to try arms but saying it's equal to sub is not a glowing review atm

[lilac stag]

I like sub (tricky) pacing better

Depth goes to arms

you honestly would enjoy it I think

like DS I feel like I’m just waiting for my DN alarm to sound to pres strike instead of evis

Where you can game more stacking stuff with arms. Execute into demolish type
Stuff

idk if that makes sense

[warm marlin]

[lilac stag]

Think fdk slowed down a bit with reacting and more stacking

where in lust you’re just slamming onlits, you don’t every really get to that except maybe execute

It’s tanky af as well

[lucid jackal]

Arms is fun

Its like sin except it's a 1:30 and a 45

[lilac stag]

I think the pacing is better

[lucid jackal]

And then u have like, 3 procs u juggle while pressing mortal strike on cd

[warm marlin]

muh dk timings

[lilac stag]

abilities have some grit to em

I need to get trinkets on the warrior. Need to pug chim still.

[jagged coyote]

I am simming Eleems recommended changes with dropping danse and PP for Dark Brew/Finality, but my sims arent showing quite the change he was stating. Anyone know what stat weights he was running?

[hazy breach]

Did nobody actually read what i wrote

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-jack-sparrow-gif-9226035080235546941

[jagged coyote]

lol I saw overall with ST increase and loss in AOE to make up the difference at 1.5% increase overall

[lilac stag]

@vale pine could you translate eleem for the channel please?

@warm marlin but anyways. I think you’d enjoy it. Especially if you have a group to run with to pull around.

Critcake posted a couple 22s. One as slayer nd one as colossus.

[warm marlin]

The bigger problem is certainly that my warrior is level 10

and when i went to grind crests on my ddh i decided watching paint dry was more fun

[west tide]

ill never play warrior

even tho it might be my calling

cause my guild has 2 chad warr

[lilac stag]

We seem to always be lacking one if it’s not prot

Our last dps warrior was in DF and they came to raid with one embellishment equipped 5 bosses into prog.

I’ve emergency geared one twice.

[plush roost]

Well well well

The drop lashe for db cook

[lilac stag]

omg is that the famous Charrend from Tactyk’s YouTube videos?

[plush roost]

Famous for hit moments like dead on paladins and benched on alleria!!!

[lilac stag]

2x rogue on belo

look at “those rogues” soak

[plush roost]

We lack hunters

[desert oasis]

for dragons does it matter who we target, unsure if there is an "optimal" one. I do know Vaelgor bitch slaps you with their tail if you get behind them lol

[lilac stag]

Melee is usually left first

idk if it actually matters tbh

[desert oasis]

curious why that is, okay though. Thats vaelgor then

[small sleet]

Hello blizzard rogue dev eleem, why is it that when I sim the new talents you said were way better that I have to run now, the robot says it’s not better? I won’t be reading your explanation but I would like it anyways

[vale pine]

sorry, what do you mean?

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message clearly speaking a different language

[warm marlin]

you're getting flamed in dk discord lil gup

nice aoe damage noob

[plush roost]

Hmmm

[small sleet]

Froststrike is officially blacklisted that’s it

[plush roost]

Not the DS test run key

[lilac stag]

[warm marlin]

noob!

[plush roost]

Thats not friststrike stating that im pretty sure

[vale pine]

he was just referencing PP oversimming i assume

[small sleet]

Sam is froststrike I thought

[plush roost]

Is he idk

[vale pine]

because it makes the diffrence appear bigger than it is

[warm marlin]

you know what the better part is

[small sleet]

I mean I know he isn’t deeps LOL

[warm marlin]

my boy @lunar bluff also got caught in the crossfire

my goats getting shot down

[plush roost]

People can just

Look up logs thi

[warm marlin]

he wasnt flaming you he was saying his logs were inflated because you werent doing much aoe

im just memeing

but it is him i think

[plush roost]

Ye ik

[lilac stag]

Aren’t you supposed to leave aoe up so arms can funnel?

[plush roost]

Froststrike and i are homies

In pit u aoe on every funnel boss

Too dangerous

And garfrost funnel is immortal

[lunar bluff]

io was doing 0 dmg this dungeon

it randomyl happens idk y

i did the exact same dmg in a 20 a 4/26, like 9 ivlls ago

[warm marlin]

lowroll unlucky

[astral axle]

is reading what happens when i stare at squiggles and then a picture appears in my mind?