subtlety

[graceful rock]

wowowowow

[earnest bolt]

i peaked at 1.3M dps on first pull algethar

i feel

so amazing

[fast dome]

how tf

oh

aa

all the tiny guys

[earnest bolt]

yeah

good crits me thinks

i ended at like 700k

but 1.3 peak felt like crack

[fast dome]

Ok to be clear, the 700 haste I need to be at - this is AFTER flask?

cause if so I need to re-enchant for some more mastery

[earnest bolt]

any consume possible to get there

[fast dome]

im over by 77 rn w/ cheap flask, I'd be at 787 w/ gold star one

[earnest bolt]

but it’s pref to have it off gear alone imo so you can flask other stats

[fast dome]

so I assume I can swap out my ring enchants for Mastery

[heady tangle]

hhas anyone seen any logs of the new deathstalker build?

[fast dome]

ah

ok

THATS why raidbots has me flasking shattered sun I guess

[earnest bolt]

check vorasius or llura logs

[earnest bolt]

sims prefer lower haste bc it’s a robot and won’t be delayed by ping and other factors

[fast dome]

gotcha

I assume 100 AGI > 170 secondary stat (haste/mast/wahtever) for my food buff?

[earnest bolt]

that’s why i run only 650 haste after oils

bc i am a robot

[somber sun]

[earnest bolt]

primary stat is our best stat

[fast dome]

ok 100 agi food it is then

[earnest bolt]

have u been talon jg abusing

[fast dome]

Huh. With oil I'm 803 haste

well then

[somber sun]

nah I played mid since my start

lil flex but I did bronze to emerald in one season

[earnest bolt]

gotta hop on it, it’s so broken

infinite map presence

[somber sun]

xddddd

[graceful rock]

dude i forgot to swap to my DS gear for alleria

[earnest bolt]

dude you need to understand that

this account started in the gutter

it placed iron 2 after placements

iron 4 0 lp after winning my first placement game

[somber sun]

keep it wow related !!!!

[sand torrent]

Hey, i cant find that addon that lets you put your combo points below your feet

[earnest bolt]

[somber sun]

( but yeah Ik this sht is broken asf )

[undone mesa]

this is right?

[swift tinsel]

It’s funny how often this channel will descend into LoL talk esp around MSI/Worlds

[somber sun]

I mean

a lot of lol players also do play wow

but fun fact assassins suck in lol AND in wow

[native crag]

What we playing for m+? Still trickster?

[earnest bolt]

yes

[native crag]

Yay, thanks

[earnest bolt]

it’s like we’re just so drawn to absolute dogshit

[swift tinsel]

Doesn’t stop people from dreaming of getting Zed abilities for sub

[earnest bolt]

i mean we got the shadow clones

[swift tinsel]

would be kinda neat to be able to swap places with a clone

his marked for death thing would be cool to have attached to dance

explode for a % of dmg done by you and clones during dance when it ends

[old holly]

New sub rogue here… any tips or tricks on how to get better at using feint? Is there a S1 cheat sheet on what to use it on each dungeon or something like that

[radiant swift]

are we flexing gold elo

wait fuck

[undone mesa]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[radiant swift]

i tought u were someone else

[somber sun]

@old holly

[radiant swift]

my fault g

[somber sun]

w fuu

[earnest bolt]

not main

[radiant swift]

it wasnt even about elo i tought u were someone else i tried to shittalk for fun

[earnest bolt]

[radiant swift]

[old holly]

Thank you!!!

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pulsar hemlock]

Man vanguard prog is killing my will to live

[heady tangle]

when looking at sub rogue logs sometimes i dont see when they use shadow dance. how to fix?

[radiant swift]

just kill it

[pulsar hemlock]

[radiant swift]

[somber sun]

it cant be that bad

right ??

please man

my healers already dying to random stuff on dragons

[pulsar hemlock]

It's a healer fight, and mine are a generational example of what not to do

[somber sun]

gg ig next full week on paladins

by the time we we will get to lura I'll have a family

[swift tinsel]

ugh I hate to say it but I kinda like how hard DS cranks boss dmg

I feel gross

[light fog]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[whole ermine]

Any reason why I'm simming 2k~ DPS more (dungeon slice) consistently with Cloud Cover than with No Scruples? Everyone is running NS it seems.

[undone cliff]

In AA as trickster, mastery is best, right?

[pulsar hemlock]

Can't go wrong with mastery

[undone cliff]

might swing back by and pick up crit for last boss

[pulsar hemlock]

large brain

[undone cliff]

smooth brain lol

[somber sun]

how much are you simming for big man

[brisk onyx]

#subtlety message

[tribal blade]

waste of time tbh

mast and crit are neutral to each other in pure ST

[ember hull]

ds pumpin, this was before i realized i was fucking up my sec tech in the first like 40 wipes, this is over 52 wipes

[whole ermine]

Interesting.

[west tide]

LURA DEAD BOOM

i got the ring

[shut dawn]

My guild is starting prog on M saladbar tomorrow. Do we hold CDs at all for the damage amp or just send on CD the entire fight?

[west tide]

yeah use on pull then hold for like 30 sec

or w.e it is

[shut dawn]

Ok thx

[tough pumice]

Is it worth losing a global in shadow blades for a supercharged apex upgraded sec teq?

[gloomy sluice]

You boys, what the reason to not waste cp be4 8-10 sec cd tec ?

[drifting ether]

I grab vers, big value when your low on it

[gloomy sluice]

Can any one explain what i do bad here? >> https://ru.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v72Jz91KG3X6QxZr?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=14

[foggy estuary]

I believe yes

[tribal blade]

just be careful with dance charges, i made the mistake a few times on prog sending too many dances before the dmg amps and then only having 1 dance charge available for burns

[foggy estuary]

Send on start and on burn, then hold a bit and send on orbs and burn again. Depending group speed you might fit another one. Check kill timers on logs with blades used and adjust

Just dont pad on the interruptuble adds, thats actually cringe.

[lusty epoch]

Yo! I was wondering if it's worth swapping some stats from mastery/crit into haste just to get that extra gcd when coup is used during SD.

When simming, haste is like half the value of mastery atm. Is it because the bot has no latency at all and always gets that last gcd in? I know guides say 700-800 haste, but the sims likes my haste value at the moment which is 627

[foggy estuary]

The sim is a robot, you need 700 haste with guidon 800without

[lusty epoch]

okok, and that's only because the coup thing?

[foggy estuary]

No its for the reduction in the gcd to fit 2 sectec in every blades to max dam window

You want to apex coup anw

[lusty epoch]

i see, thanks!

[left ledge]

No

Apex doesn’t even work fully with sectec

You definitely do not want to lose gcds in dance/cds

It’s like all this spec is about

Gcds in dance

Also you lose multiple blades globals doing that

I think you’d end up losing like 2-3 globals

Also you want to make sure the second dance is within guidons window

Just send the second one with 8 sec left on blades as trickster

[tribal blade]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[tribal blade]

hrm

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[tribal blade]

^do that

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade got to 30% on egg first night.

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[lilac stag]

Should be kill next week?

[tribal blade]

probably yeah

hopefully

just get through P2

and the boss dies

honestly just push P2 as fast as possible

[lilac stag]

We got through the first soak of p2 on last pull

[tribal blade]

or asap while not getting birds during intermission

sounds like you're progging it faster than my guild did

[lilac stag]

We swapped to 3 heal after 2 hours

[tribal blade]

nice

actually my guild was progging quite fast too

but then to make it through P2 took us a long time

[lilac stag]

P2 seems like a cluster

The start at least

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a bit more hectic than P1

[wheat edge]

start of p2 and the p2 adds are the hard part yeah

[lilac stag]

I was trying to save some sc for intermission and didn’t really seem to matter. Could have just been rng

[tribal blade]

yeah no point anymore

not unless you're holding dmg

for a long time

[lilac stag]

We are holding for about 5 seconds so kinda inbetween

[tribal blade]

not too bad

[lilac stag]

Adds we’re getting blown up so fast I just started full sending.

and holding sc on last dance before intermission of dmg wasn’t needed

[tribal blade]

are you immune soaking anything?

[lilac stag]

After first intermission

[tribal blade]

ah ok that's not too bad

i legit will never be able to parse bird haha

with the immunes i do

but it is what it is

[trail bison]

how many do you do?

[wheat edge]

I was on soaking duty until last day where we swapped in a 2nd hunter so then I was just backup

[tribal blade]

i technically do 3, but we never got the last one in P2 i needed to do

[fallow nimbus]

I had the r1 bird with 2 soaks

[tribal blade]

so i do the first set of orbs on pull

then orbs after intermission

so legit i am running around soaking while the first add set gets blown up

[trail bison]

im on soak duty for 1st soaks each phase

[tribal blade]

which is big ripperoni

[fallow nimbus]

Then the itemlvl explosion happened

[tribal blade]

oh yeah same as me

[wheat edge]

I was thinking how nice it would be playing DS for the 2 sec extra cloak for soaking

cause the regular cloak duration feels kinda bad when doing it

[tribal blade]

it would be nice for the orbs after 1st egg

those orbs suck to soak

[lilac stag]

Trying to keep up with the WW getting PI

[lilac stag]

I just didn’t see any logs showing DS having an advantage in dmg.

[tribal blade]

it's actually kinda hilarious how they made haste a stat for sub but PI is still dogshit

[wheat edge]

yeah I was also playing sin so it wouldve been extra bad

[lilac stag]

Haste and rogues is a failure.

Lust feels a bit better, but still pales in comparison to other specs

[wheat edge]

yeah fixed GCD is never gonna feel as good as other classes during lust

[peak ice]

It’s weird to see the shams damage go way up during lust

And then just fall way off

[wheat edge]

but it also makes you miss lust on those classes

[lilac stag]

Fdk and killing machine procs during lust is comical

[wheat edge]

like doing the havoc opener during lust is gigachill, outside of lust you have to be perfect and you have no leeway to get everything off before your buffs fall off

[peak ice]

If you use one button assist on like, say a warlock or frost mage

What do you think you’d parse

[wheat edge]

this shit only has a 12 sec duration for some reason and you do like 11 globals before consuming it, and it has to be active for the whole 2 second eye beam channel

so during lust you have like 6 seconds remaining when you use it, outside of lust it just about fits in..

[lilac stag]

It’s almost like the same dev is working on Sub and Havoc

[wheat edge]

dont get me wrong, the spec is superfun but that part feels a bit stressful 😄

[lilac stag]

I realized part of my hatred of is one Sectech in blades

[wheat edge]

classic public order

[peak ice]

I mean

What did you expect

[golden totem]

You can force rank 5

[wheat edge]

9/10 times its fine...

[lilac stag]

welcome to 1/10

[peak ice]

Just tip the dude like 3k

[wheat edge]

this was actually a 3k tip aswell..

[peak ice]

If you just ask in trade chat people will spam whisper you

[wheat edge]

ye getting the recraft that way, I usually just cba so I send public orders

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[peak ice]

Hello

[shrewd lantern]

if you tip more than 500g on a public

[upbeat cradle]

Woah i get tipped like 100g in average but i still have the decency to go for r5

[shrewd lantern]

I mean i usually do 2k mid/late season

maybe 4 early

[shadow lance]

Morning sunshine

We managed to kill Belo yesterday

[peak ice]

Yall are cheap

[shadow lance]

99 on boss damages. DS is sick rn

[void ocean]

mornin, king

[dusky yacht]

Like someone else said you can select ‘minimum rank’ when placing order now, so they can’t give you anything below r5

[wheat edge]

not a thing for public orders

[short radish]

idk if someone is tipping 100g on a public order i'm not gonna use conc for that

tip shit get shit

[dusky yacht]

Lmao goddamn and that’s where you’d need it most

[peak ice]

Tip your crafters folks

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wispy crystal]

What is the bare minimum I need to do ,

To switch to Death stalker? Currently progressing on Mythic Baloren with my guild

Feel like if I can contribute more on ST on the eggies that would be helpful

And 7s cloak to soak balls also pretty insane

E.g. do I need a minimum of 1000 haste to get started as DS?

And why does DS need more haste than trickster, I've been wondering too.

[foggy estuary]

Ds doesnt reduce cd like trickster does in talent. Need to build the haste cap manually

[spiral needle]

at this point its kind of hard to fail at killing egg in 2 phases, and killing his little adds and their egg still matters

switching isn't really going to help your prog, only do it if you really want to play DS

[spiral pewter]

Is it better to eviscerate or black powder on 2 targets?

[vale pine]

there is no bare minimum

detahstalker can be played with trickster equipment

however, the damage is very similar if you do so

the 1100 haste is basically the mark you want to hit to get noticable ahead in output

[hollow spear]

1.100 haste is a must imo

[wispy crystal]

the wowhead guide was saying

1100 haste, which is pretty insane to hit.

supposing if we are only at 900 haste for example, would that have a big impact on the DPS?

[peak ice]

Yea?

[upbeat cradle]

I don't use concentration if every mat is max rank

[vale pine]

yes

again

if you want to play it

you can do so before

but you won't see a benefit before getting higher haste values

the diffrence is between 0.5-2% without adjusting haste

a noticable diffrence is around 5%

means, you won't notice higher output before getting more haste on encounters

the diffrence with optimized gear is around 5-6%

there are ways to hit the haste target

e.g. you can use haste flask instead of mastery

you can craft engineering pieces

these come with one single stat and can give you a lot of haste

boots and bracers would qualif as slot

head you likely want to have tier

[peak ice]

Might be a dumb question, but do you have to be an engineer to use engineer peices?

[vale pine]

think they removed that requirement, but let me double check

[peak ice]

I just remember googles and rocket boots were engineer only

But that was it wotlc and I’ve not done engineering in ages

[short radish]

pretty sure yes

[vale pine]

head requires it

[peak ice]

Yea aight

Cheers

[vale pine]

but

[keen dome]

Boots / Bracers don't, head does

[peak ice]

Oh

[peak ice]

Interesting

[keen dome]

For reasons that are known only to blizz

[vale pine]

the other 2 slots don't

[peak ice]

I do have a lot of crafting crystals sitting

Why do the feet craft at 289?

[vale pine]

they don't

i just had the wrong item level in my gear copy/paste

[peak ice]

Ah right

[hollow spear]

Got interrupted there. What fuu and the sim say is very noticeable. For some reason, my gear set auto changed (probably a broken addon) a couple of times back to trickster/700 haste during lura prog and it felt so much worse and I did noticeably less damage.

A lot of times the extra dance gcd is the difference between getting another apexed DN in your dance or not

[short radish]

big if

some people try to sneak it through

and drop the tehe funny 69 tip

my shit hot take is that people who go "hurr durr why do i have to tip you so much for just pressing a button" are cringe

like you just paid 5-10k worth of mats

[vale pine]

Public orders are a gamble

your chances are higher if you put a higher tip

[short radish]

and youre too cheap to pay for someone to acutally craft the item

[vale pine]

but no guarantee

[short radish]

like okay if it's just pressing a button you press it then

[vale pine]

people craft for 10k without concentration if they see the order and have none left

[short radish]

tbh i'd never public order anyway

so hit and miss

i dont even know why people drop a public order

but i guess i play on a high pop server

[vale pine]

it is an information problem

[short radish]

one "hey can you craft" and i 10 dms going "hey i can craft for you. dont even need a tip"

yeah crafting is a failure

[vale pine]

think most do a

"tip however much you want"

and most "tips" are actually quite decent/good

[short radish]

yeah i do that as well becuase if i say "tip 5k" theyre going to get one of the other random crafting monkeys who do it for free

i just hate everything about the crafting system

blizzard for making it complicated (it really isn't)

the general public for shaming crafters for wanting gold to craft for them after spending 20k on mats

crafters for giving in and doing a race to the bottom

[wheat edge]

I hate social interaction!!!!!!

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

HEY THERE I CAN CRAFT IT SEND IT TO MY ALT

AND THEN WAIT A MILLION YEARS FOR ME TO LOG OVER

[peak ice]

I’ve never had it take more than 30s

[vale pine]

can you still do crafting orders without materials?

[short radish]

yeah

[vale pine]

damn

i remember that being a big abuse factor of them

[short radish]

it will pop up though saying "this order will consume your own materials"

[vale pine]

to the point of having a weakaura or addon to sort it out

[vale pine]

yes, but that didn't stop people

[warm marlin]

I was doing a lot of crafting during the profession rework in df

it wasnt really a race to the bottom

not asking for a specific tip got much bigger tips than requesting a specific one

[short radish]

idk the amount of people i see spamming trade chat with the message "dont need tip"

is too fucking high

[warm marlin]

Don’t need tip is a bit wack

Tip what u want is based

[short radish]

ye thats what i do

(not my screenshot)

but low pop servers are wild

[tribal blade]

wtf that's crazy

@short radish are you still pushing

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hallow matrix]

DS wants around 1100 haste, i'm at 1060 - Is it similar to the 700 breakpoint for trickster? where it's worth me getting the extra 40 haste? I'm not sure exactly why 1100 haste is good for deathstalker, what the interaction is etc

[vale pine]

you are fine with a bit less

but typically want to be close to the 1100

[hallow matrix]

Okay cool ty - why does DS want so much haste?

what does it enable?

[vale pine]

longer dance, which gives more oppotunity to proc the capstone talent

which does a lot of damage, trickster has more of the damage in secret

[hallow matrix]

capstone = darkest night?

[vale pine]

yes

[hallow matrix]

Alright cool thanks!

[vale pine]

have fun, the gameplay is a bit diffrent and needs to egt used to

[hallow matrix]

Yeah i tried it a bit yesterday before getting the haste

noticed in the middle of the pull it felt like i should hold dance to line up my DS mark better

so i'm in the state eleem mentions in the pinned post

is that correct? or just send dance/sectec as you would trickster

[vale pine]

you don't aim for 2x secret in blades

so you can send your 2nd dance when you are on low cp

typically get secret after blades, which is perfectly fine

you macro dance + storm, which is the main change

[hallow matrix]

Yeah i've had that macro for a while

Don't you want to enter dance with darkest night up though everytime? ignoring on pull

[short radish]

yeah tonight

[tribal blade]

hot

[hallow matrix]

1stack mark, evisc -> dance/storm macro -> darkest night evisc with supercharger and AA -> sectec

[tribal blade]

timed my first 19 today

[hallow matrix]

am i trying to get into that state for every dance?

[tribal blade]

went from 17>19 windrunner

[short radish]

gzgzgz

[vale pine]

nicu gz

[tribal blade]

feels very chill

19s

[vale pine]

xes

[tribal blade]

not hard yet

[vale pine]

*yes

[keen dome]

if they say that then you should just put 1 silver in imo

[short radish]

yeah 19s still feel chill

[keen dome]

And see if they send you hate mail

[tribal blade]

the main issue i'm having is i'm not doing very many keys

just randomly doing high keys with my buddy

so i don't know when i'm gonna be taking lethal dmg

and just randomly die

and then go "oops, ok note that down for next time"

[hallow matrix]

thanks

[tribal blade]

if it makes you feel better i looked at some top DS logs and they were just kinda winging most dances

going into some with 1 mark, some with DN already up, some with dance>sectec

[plush roost]

Idt keys are hard for dps till 23

Tanks and healers flop tho

[tribal blade]

that sounds about right

[hallow matrix]

yeah okay - so it's fine to sit on dance/sectec to sort out your marks? or should i just send

[plush roost]

Done a few 23s, i cannot vibe feint

[vale pine]

tanks often have issues on 17 already

[tribal blade]

iirc sit on your mark

[tribal blade]

yeah makes sense

i think this'll be the first season ever where cutoff is over 4k IO

[vale pine]

i wonder how high 12.0.7 pushes it

[peak ice]

With the added like buff book thing

Probably quite high

[keen dome]

The buff thing seems big, yeah

[tribal blade]

hard to say, depends how much power we get from the new thing

[keen dome]

Also the 298 gear

[vale pine]

^

[tribal blade]

did they tell us how that new borrowed power is gonna work?

[keen dome]

Yeah

there's a big post, hang on

[tribal blade]

i don't look at wowhead news anymore haha

i'm always out of the loop

[keen dome]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-previews-the-omnium-folio-more-power-for-your-characters-in-patch-12-0-381734?utm_source=discord-webhook

[hazy breach]

Afaik the current tuning of it makes them quite weak

[keen dome]

Yeah but then they massively buff it a day before it goes live again

[tribal blade]

i bet they'll tune it up

[vale pine]

its hard to predict

they might want it to be better

but not significanr

[hallow matrix]

I think i'm mentally impaired - this doesn't make sense to me. Dance + sectec off CD, mark is on 2 stacks. Do i send dance+sectec or do i natty evisc twice to get DN before dance/storm -> DN evisc -> sectec?

[vale pine]

*significant

[keen dome]

We're, what.. 3 for 3 (4? Does cloak count?) of them massively buffing the catch-up power item because it was too weak initially

So I'm pretty confident

[tribal blade]

you can use vanish to fix that

[keen dome]

Although this isn't an item so maybe it'll be different (it won't be)

[tribal blade]

vanish>strike to get full CPs and get your mark down to 1

[alpine wraith]

sometimes the best answer to that is just dont get to taht situation but yea you can fix it somehow

[tribal blade]

then i guess dance>storm>sectec etc

[alpine wraith]

you will need to use vanish or something to cycle that 1 mark off

oh and also cancel apex if it procs on the builder

[hollow spear]

exactly, just don't be a bum

[alpine wraith]

or just take the L if you dont have the time to fix it

[tribal blade]

from logs it looks like people put themselves in all sorts of weird situations like that

but it looks like it tends to work itself out

[hollow spear]

Going through my videos yesterday, it just happens sometimes

[tribal blade]

and they still do good dmg

[hollow spear]

quietus

is killing me

[nocturne tendon]

being DS is already taking the L

[alpine wraith]

quietus trollus

[tribal blade]

yeah quietus for sub is el depression

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you might have to just sit on the 1 mark for like almost 7 to 8 secs

[hollow spear]

even though it sometimes gives you a hilarious opener

[alpine wraith]

to avoid krangle

you will learn with time

[hollow spear]

one time I had so many quietus procs and therefore DN during blades

it was kinda crazy

[tribal blade]

i wonder if it could be neutral to just cycle the 1 mark into DN

[hollow spear]

wdym

[alpine wraith]

in 8 secs you dont have time to build to another DN

and get sht

so it is 100% L

[tribal blade]

ok yeah the sht is the problem there

true

[alpine wraith]

people understimate the time it takes to build even 5 outside dance

[hollow spear]

people underestimate how much time it takes to get back to 1 mark with 5 sht

[tribal blade]

yeah it takes a bit

ok fair enough

just sit there looking pretty 🙂

[alpine wraith]

you can stab

just remember to cancelaura apex

[hollow spear]

whenever I feel like I have too many sht stacks to just wait and try to farm back, I frick myself over

[alpine wraith]

or just look somewhere

[hallow matrix]

are you heavy into TC?

[tribal blade]

omfg don't tell me we need a cancelaura apex macro

[nocturne tendon]

just replace regular backstab with backstab macro + /cancelaura ancient arts, new meta for DS

xdd

[alpine wraith]

i mean if you are careful not really

but otherwise yea

[alpine wraith]

yea

[tribal blade]

hmmm i wonder if that would actually be ok

[nocturne tendon]

no clue, probably gonna end up fucking something up if spammy hands

[tribal blade]

the only time you ever apex a finisher outside of dance is after blades really

or after a dance

[hallow matrix]

idk who to trust - your logs look a little sus

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[hollow spear]

Hacha knows his shit

[alpine wraith]

needs the r1 logs

im a chud

[hollow spear]

he just suffers from playing with an absolutely dogshit UI

[alpine wraith]

nah ui is fine now they nuked all the fun things

i miss Xct

[hollow spear]

idk man, I've watched your DS video

can't tell me that UI is clean

#noflame

[tribal blade]

dw my UI is a million times worse

[alpine wraith]

kek hey it is clean for my standard

[tribal blade]

hacha's is the mona lisa compared to mine

[hollow spear]

just do it like I do

[alpine wraith]

people think having bars is a problem for some reason

[hallow matrix]

i mean it's not rude - come into the discord to ask for advice and get advice from everybody with no way to know how credible a person is... What else can i look at for that other than logs

[hollow spear]

and copy zac's ui

big gaming

[alpine wraith]

no dont worry it is just funny

because it happens quite often

[mint swift]

Did reclear and talked to sub about DS and was curious
Is there any degen mark sniping with sub
I assume not due to Black powder being your aoe damage (or id assume so) but was just curious :0

[hollow spear]

you can mark snipe, but it might end up backfiring

[alpine wraith]

you can snipe with mark on vorasius and saladbar

[hollow spear]

I am afraid to try

[tribal blade]

i mean fuu is a sub theorycrafter and he doesn't even mythic raid

[alpine wraith]

but need to be fast and know when to do it

[hallow matrix]

he's also marked in the discord high up so its obvious

[alpine wraith]

fuu does mythic but takes it easy

[hallow matrix]

same with whispy eleem etc

[mint swift]

Ah fairs
M+ is still trickster right so there’s no degen mark sniping

[tribal blade]

fair, but hacha has been around here for a long time and he knows his stuff

trust

[alpine wraith]

alleria is also a funny one to snipe but annoying

[hollow spear]

if you wanna do CV checks before you trust people you can do that, but it's kinda hilarious

[mint swift]

Cause saw on Assa you’d move the mark to a low health target for DN

[keen dome]

Yeah, Hacha knows his stuff.

[hallow matrix]

yeah fair enough! just asking - i've only picked up rogue this tier

[keen dome]

Esp if it's mastery stacking shenanigans.

[alpine wraith]

problem with DN snipe as sub is that

you kinda only really slam those in dance

and trying to snipe in dance can be hectic as f

[hallow matrix]

idk how that is hilarious - some of the people that give advice in discords are literally 9/9hc green loggers

[alpine wraith]

you might see people try it but it can be dicey

outside of dance evis does not hit that hard

[white briar]

Spec kinda plays itself now no? Just press buttons

[hollow spear]

the dream is to hit a DN and mark snipe straight into another DN

[nocturne tendon]

i got a 99 on paladins heroic last night, my advice is top tier

[mint swift]

Yea, I bet.
I’ve not touched rogue almost at all this season but still do watch Whispyr stuff and I enjoy checking in on rogue from time to time

I know it’s the most common opinion to have on the planet at this point but the mark should be a buff on you and they should have maybe a node in the hero tree fulfill the whole debuff on target thing

[keen dome]

I need to get my 99/100's on LFR again

those are funny

[hollow spear]

I got a 20 on Lura heroic because I shadowstepped into my death

[alpine wraith]

i got all 100* in bfa because it was only me and another guy playing sub XD

[hollow spear]

should listen to my advice

[mint swift]

I’ve only gotten 1 100 this season and it was imparator normal

Tbh there’s been some funny parsing things in my guild

[alpine wraith]

also i died to saladbar beam because cloak does not work whoops

[keen dome]

Would've been me too if I was playing properly and praising, haha

[keen dome]

parsing even

[mint swift]

Our disc priest parses

[alpine wraith]

nah likely other people did more dps but private logged

[mint swift]

I think his CoC is higher but it’s funny to see

[alpine wraith]

think mystler and others did play sub

[vale pine]

your subtlety icon looks weird

[alpine wraith]

just didnt public and tbh neither did I

[mint swift]

Wait really

[keen dome]

I got a 98 on birb heroic by accident

[white briar]

It does?

[alpine wraith]

yea only first sec works

[mint swift]

It’s the true fantasy of sub
Nobody suspects the disc priest to be an undercover rogue

[hollow spear]

our tank is a gamer

[open depot]

You can always trust me, buddy 💪

[white briar]

Think you need to pop cloak and run through in the 1sec immunity but it does work

[hollow spear]

should ask him for sub advice ig

his logs don't lie

[mint swift]

Also our GM was playing affli on Pally reclear and cause he died from no healing missed the R1 by like
100 DPS

[keen dome]

smh at the vanguard log

[hollow spear]

yeah, he disappointed all of us

[mint swift]

I’m p sure my parses this season are brought down by council and CoC

[hazy breach]

Not really. As assa getting darkest night at anytime is good because you can just send the envenom. Sub wants it at specific times so you can get 2x apexed dn during dance

[keen dome]

I'm real good

[hazy breach]

So speeding up the cycle isn't even necessarily a DPS gain

[hollow spear]

looks like healing logs

[keen dome]

nuh-uh

[native zodiac]

Trying to parse on cosmos

[hollow spear]

Eleem, is it int to delay your 2nd dance a second to guarantee a supercharged DN?

[nocturne tendon]

wow those are great naxx 10 logs, didn't know sub went that hard in t7

[keen dome]

hell yeah

Maybe I'm just really fucking good and they're actually vanilla logs

[keen dome]

And somehow have a time machine

[mint swift]

No clue what mine are doing

[nocturne tendon]

parsed so hard you went back in time, sick

[keen dome]

My actual Mythic logs are pretty w/e. I'm happy with the Vora but the rest suck to do anything on in pugs.

[mint swift]

At least you’ll never have to suffer playing CoC

Not even particularly hard just mega unfun imo

[hallow matrix]

Can i join in

[open depot]

I am proud of you buddy 👍

[keen dome]

I keep trying to do a good imperator kill but pugs are just absurd with it.

Every time I have a REAL good pull, we wipe due to the dumbest reasons lol

[mint swift]

This raid tier still sucks balls Imo

[hollow spear]

same

I kinda like Lura, but I also have 0 responsibility on that fight

[mint swift]

I’ve not gotten to L’ura yet but I want to

I don’t think there’s any more reclears so it’s only prog

[hollow spear]

This tier isn't garbage but it's not good either

[keen dome]

I tried to pug it on heroic and gave up again

Just horrible in pugs

[native zodiac]

Its just voidspire thats garbo

[hollow spear]

the best shot is to fill a missing slot for a guild that progresses it ig

[keen dome]

ye

I'll kill it in .7 regardless, plenty of time

[hallow matrix]

do you change your stats much going between sub and assa?

[mint swift]

I much prefer St fights over fights with ads, let alone how this tier has so many ads that are either “they pop up and die in 5 seconds” or “only exists for death grip”

[upbeat cradle]

That's quite good tho

Better than average

[hollow spear]

I feel like that's been the case for most raids

In the beginning you get to whale on adds for a bit

[wheat edge]

my char was just lvl 89 and 150 ilvl

[keen dome]

Ye, I think a lot of people get hyper fixated on 99's and forget that the median is 50. As long as I'm above that, I'm happy.

[hollow spear]

With power creep they just melt

[wheat edge]

now its lvl 90 and 247 ilvl

[mint swift]

They’ve been like that the whole tier though no?

Or maybe I’m just malding idk

[keen dome]

They def melted early on but you could still pad them

[hollow spear]

yeah but they have been like that the last expansion

[keen dome]

now they vaproize

[mint swift]

Every fight just feels like it has the rashanan ads

Fairs

[hollow spear]

on Rik it was the same

[mint swift]

Well fuck Richard

[hollow spear]

if you didn't sectec the second they appeared

[mint swift]

!rik

[hollow spear]

you didn't get any damage

[keen dome]

barrel boss

[mint swift]

Wait hold on

[upbeat cradle]

i need more dps to die on dragons so i can pad

[tidal marsh]

People get hyper fixated on the median. As long as you get at least a 2, you're fine.

Means you're not the worst.

[mint swift]

Exactly

[keen dome]

that's true

[hollow spear]

I think you're not even necessarily the worst with a 0

[keen dome]

If you get a -1 parse though

[tidal marsh]

Technically possibly yeh

[mint swift]

Tbh tho
Maybe I notice the ads more cause there’s not a single pure ST fight

[hollow spear]

The -1 parse is basically the game telling you to maybe just hang up your hat

[keen dome]

Or an overflow and you did maximum damage

[hollow spear]

all around the world

[mint swift]

Wouldn’t it overflow to the lowest negative number tho?

Or
Highest

You know what I mean

[upbeat cradle]

i've been ignoring all adds lately

[hollow spear]

maybe it would just crash wcl

[upbeat cradle]

lol

[tidal marsh]

fr though, like can we at least do half and half

mf'in blizzord

[mint swift]

Yea

Pure ST is best fight type
Not talking about patchwerk, I like mechanics in it just

[tribal blade]

i managed to snag this on the reset when cloud cover got buffed and everyone went no premed+PE

[mint swift]

Don’t give me these stupid ads

[tribal blade]

and i stayed premed+WS

[mint swift]

Just let me hit some guy for like 6 minutes

And press my buttons
And do mechanics

And chill with the homies

And have a good time

Not run out of melee for 20 seconds cause some maggot is eating my leg

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[wheat edge]

u are a bug abuser and also reported

[tribal blade]

nauurrwww

but honestly padding dragons is just having raid members who do 0 dam lol

that's it

[somber sun]

bro its good enough

you dont even have to move that much

[mint swift]

Also what’s the best fight this tier for everyone here

So far it’s lighbinded because it’s fun and no shitty adds but I’ve seen it’s not good on rogue so it’s prolly not them here

[keen dome]

the secret to parsing

[mint swift]

It’s not

[open depot]

Nah, change rings and trinkets

[hallow matrix]

alleria feels fun atm

[wheat edge]

first boss

[hallow matrix]

but still prog so who knows

[wheat edge]

alleria p1 is stinky while p2 and 3 are kinda fun

[native zodiac]

Beloren & lura easily

[tribal blade]

so true

[hallow matrix]

what trinkets are you running?

[dusky yacht]

Skoop doesn’t even change underwear

[tribal blade]

the 2 fights where it's not turbo toxic for melee 😉

[open depot]

Guidon and PB

[mint swift]

Exactly

[native zodiac]

[tribal blade]

except maybe some of the earlier bosses

but they don't count

[wheat edge]

if beloren didnt have a damage stop and also the burn phase was the hard part and not the stinky mechanics it would be better

[open depot]

I still think paladins is fine for melee as long as you are not excluded from meee soak

[mint swift]

And then you have ranged saying it’s harder for them or heaven forbid a Dev

(Tbf their rotation does seem like it takes at least a few brain cells compared to what I’m doing)

[native zodiac]

Nexus is also good fun imo, but thats probably the only fight i like in voidspire

[mint swift]

Oh pallies is acc fun

[wheat edge]

but like the prog kill of beloren dying on 2nd egg burn with 20 seconds left is a bit anti-climactic

[mint swift]

It just needs more visual clarity

And blizzard we legit did the

“Council boss that represents the 3 specs of a class where you bring 5 healers” last raid

[somber sun]

may I ask, did you just dance sectech on either dragons or swap your focus on adds before doing so? ( on void orbs mechanic )

[hollow spear]

To paraphrase: if Beloren wasn't a giga garbage fight, it would be kinda good

[wheat edge]

exactly

[somber sun]

I swear its not bad, ppl just die to random sht

[hollow spear]

kinda glad I was on vacay when we pulled that

[mint swift]

No I mean in general

Not just this raid

I just prefer ST fights

To ad fights

[wheat edge]

L'ura so far is a banger tho even tho you wipe 50 times in p1 and then go to bed

[somber sun]

I think you just die to mechanics early

[hollow spear]

P1 wipe factory is certainly not a lie

[mint swift]

Courtesy of @limber folio (I will be using this every night)

[open depot]

Belo’ren is dogshit

Worst fight of the tier

[mint swift]

I’m a hunter
I am the mechanics

[tribal blade]

my peak beloren opener

watching the birds die as i'm running around

[somber sun]

worst like no effort needed, right ?

[open depot]

As it sucks horsecock to play

[hollow spear]

idk, Beloren just looks ass

[open depot]

I don’t wanna sit on my hands for 45 seconds waiting for the perfect phasing

[somber sun]

[hollow spear]

and it has a damage stop

[wheat edge]

I mean it all boils down to it is something it was never meant to be

they just fucked the tuning of alleria

alleria has all the things that could make it an insane fight

[hollow spear]

just sit on them a little longer and you can perform "the stranger" after raid

[wheat edge]

but it just kinda falls over in the end without anything really happening

[vale pine]

lol

i like the cloak + sprint

[open depot]

L’ura is the best of a tier

Best figjt*

[tribal blade]

yeah i was immune soaking /cry

[hollow spear]

next raid better be a banger

[open depot]

fight* jesus

[wheat edge]

I do also enjoy fighting both first boss and chim

[peak ice]

I like paladins

[vale pine]

i wonder if we see a continuation of the current raid structure

or a return to one big raid

[wheat edge]

I think different raids would have been very good, but releasing 1 raid 1 week later was a mistake

cause it made heroic march super irrelevant aswell

[tribal blade]

yeah i think 3 seperate raids was a good experiment

that doesn't work

[peak ice]

I liked it

But timing was odd

[tribal blade]

it made the RWF incredibly weird

so i doubt blizz does it again

[peak ice]

Lura would have been so bad if people were less geared though like woofh

[wheat edge]

but like when we are now progging lura, I find it super fun that I can just go pug voidspire during the week aswell

[keen dome]

they already cofnirmed it was a big raid

[tribal blade]

but what they WILL do is do more secret phases

[keen dome]

Back when Midnight launched

[wheat edge]

so I dont have to see the same 1 fight over and over on main until its dead

[tribal blade]

because that lura secret phase was huge for wow publicity

[hollow spear]

they cannot overforce it tho

[vale pine]

oh, hmm

[tribal blade]

i have a feeling every end boss will have a secret phase from now on

possibly

[keen dome]

Nah, I think they'll do it when it fits.

[keen dome]

But we get a lairboss raid in 12.1.5

[peak ice]

Idm having a like, smaller raid off to the side

[hollow spear]

I think if they did it next raid already there'd be much less excitement

[keen dome]

So 9? boss big troll raid. then a lairboss in .5

[peak ice]

Not like a one boss one though

[tribal blade]

maybe yeah

[hollow spear]

I'd love a 10 boss raid ngl

[keen dome]

Same

11 would be good

[graceful osprey]

What if for DS, darkest night doesn’t get consumed when shadow blades is up and secret tech does 25% damage of the damage it dealt to all targets hit my secret tech to your main target after the last hit after secret tech

[peak ice]

[tribal blade]

is that a meme

[peak ice]

Lolwut

[sick swift]

Gang if I don't have the haste for DS is it worth using it in single target if I am currently fully kitted for trickster until I get the BiS for DS

[tribal blade]

or my brain is just mush again

[finite pelican]

umm guys is any1 here can help me to view wcl? i got fucking 20 parse by ilvl somehow and i dont understand why

[tribal blade]

trickster is perfectly fine to use still

[hollow spear]

wdym DN doesn't get consumed

[sick swift]

darkest night still has the bug where it doesn't get consumed?

[hollow spear]

no

read what I am reacting to

[peak ice]

Brainslop

[hollow spear]

I think yesterday I got parried back to back

my brain just shut off afterwards

[sick swift]

https://tenor.com/view/lotta-words-wow-thats-a-lot-of-words-not-reading-that-not-reading-wow-gif-26878516

I am joking, thank you Prophet for the insight on trickster still being highly viable in ST, I just got into a mythic team so I'm doing my best to be a productive member 🙂

[graceful osprey]

Maybe a better way to say, darkest night is always up when shadow blades is up

[hollow spear]

Hell no

[peak ice]

[hollow spear]

How would that be balanced

That's like saying, "what if DS did double the damage of all other specs in the game"

if that's even enough

[keen dome]

more

[hollow spear]

it'd be DN into strike into DN into strike

guess what's next?

[peak ice]

More Dn

[tribal blade]

yeah no worries! trickster will be noticably behind in pure ST, but there's only like 2-3 bosses in the game atm where that's even remotely a thing

the majority of content atm you use trickster

[hazy breach]

Idk i think DS genuinely has a good flow to it right now. Double DN dance > setup for your next dance feels good

[peak ice]

But what if you did 50% more damage all the time during blades

That seems balanced

[keen dome]

Do we know if we can catalyst the new raid helm, btw, and get a 298 tier helm?

[sick swift]

I did 130k on vorasius and belo'ren (heroic (trickster))and was just curious if there was a notable amount I could squeeze out more on our mythic attempts with DS without the supporting gear

[tribal blade]

i meant to ask, what's the ideal situation to go into blades window with your mark, same as regular dances?

[keen dome]

I assume it's speculation but I'm unsure if Blizz have mentioned anything about it

[hazy breach]

Yeah

[peak ice]

Idk if anything has been confirmed but I think we all assume u can

[hazy breach]

I would be insanely surprised if you couldnt

[keen dome]

Neat

[peak ice]

Seeing as it’s like looted gear on a tier slot

[keen dome]

Yeah

[peak ice]

Would be wear to block off 1/5 slots

[tribal blade]

in before it's coded as some weird gear and can't be catalyzed

[peak ice]

Why u do this

[hollow spear]

Asked earlier but got pulled in a meeting: do you think it could be worth sacrificing 1-2 seconds of blades to guarantee a supercharged DN in our second dance?

[tribal blade]

hey blizz sometimes be blizz 😉

[keen dome]

We know who to blame for it now

[hollow spear]

Lost the plot, who do we blame?

[hazy breach]

Probably

[tribal blade]

hey blizz don't do this ty

[tribal blade]

ME

[hollow spear]

Oh, the usual suspect then

[peak ice]

It’s cause prophet is Mafic

[hollow spear]

That is very likely

never seen them in the same room

[tribal blade]

NOOO HOW DID YOU KNOW

[peak ice]

Exactly

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-charlie-day-crazy-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-qanon-gif-23738584

[tribal blade]

do you guys understand how hard it is to yap in both the sub channel AND wow forums

and you blow my cover

[peak ice]

Pffft like you don’t have a Mafic forums bot

[tribal blade]

speaking of mafic i genuinely feel bad for bad mouthing him now

but i'm sure i'll see more of his takes

[peak ice]

lol

[tribal blade]

and lose my mind

[sick swift]

is mafic the guy on every rogue forum that is just either on blizzard's payroll levels of copium or the complete opposite and no inbetween?

[peak ice]

He plays a different game

One he’s made up in his head

[sick swift]

Gonna have to do my research on mafic lol

[peak ice]

He’s in here

[sick swift]

Lmao, playing a different game has me dying dude

[vale pine]

haha, he is def. special

[tribal blade]

VERY special

[sick swift]

Somebody got a link to a mafic's hot takes I can see so I have reading material while I camp TLPD

[vale pine]

prophets post on the na forums

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/c/classes/rogue/183

literally just go read any thread

[sick swift]

this is gonna be good

[tribal blade]

he will be responding to it

the main issue people have with him is he does absolutely 0 content in game yet has so many opinions on the state of rogue and how to fix it

[sick swift]

Oof

[vale pine]

to be fair, i think everyone has a bit of a diffrent opinion on that

[swift tinsel]

He will also say this to ragebait people on forums

[tribal blade]

that's true, everyone is allowed to have an opinion

[swift tinsel]

Which is kinda funny

[tribal blade]

oh does he? damn

[vale pine]

wait, so we are inclusive of pvp players now?

(i am joking)

[tribal blade]

HAHA hell yeah!

[lilac stag]

Or you can say you have Stockholm Syndrome.

[tribal blade]

pvpers have huge brains

[wheat edge]

Rogue was never meant to be a PvE spec, its a pvp spec first

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, if someone makes a post and gets trashed he’ll say that to them so it might be to mess with the folks who were triggered or he’s trying to be nice lol

[tribal blade]

lol maybe

[lilac stag]

I think we all do tbh

[vale pine]

i like pvp for how reactive or proreactive gameplay is

[lilac stag]

surely it will get better

[tribal blade]

SURELY

[vale pine]

but i enjoy pvp in other games more

[tribal blade]

SURELY BLIZZ LISTENS

[wheat edge]

I like pvp cause I like watching pikaboo but I dont like pvping in wow myself

[lilac stag]

So you enjoy PVE now

[vale pine]

haha, think that applies ro lol players too

[tribal blade]

at this present moment in time i'm on overdose levels of copium about getting a real raid buff

[vale pine]

mayn only watch streams now

[tribal blade]

and it feels so good

[lilac stag]

Based off what?

[wheat edge]

yeah I've never played as little league as I've done this year

[tribal blade]

complete feels 😉

i'm just taking in the vibrations of the universe like a tiktok hippie influencer

[lilac stag]

fair

[wheat edge]

but mixing league with wow and work is hard cause you can lose time in league, atleast if I do something pointless in wow for 30 min it was probably a 0.00001% of account progression

but if I lose in league thats -30min

and if I win I feel nothing

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade I’ll balance it out by being at my near lowest point of optimism that anything productive is done with rogue.

[tribal blade]

i got told 1-2 expacs back "you've never played league? you're the worst asian ever"

[tribal blade]

LOL i do need to be brought down to earth

for when the inevitable nothing happens

[lilac stag]

Tell them you’re actually Irish.

[tribal blade]

HAHA

you know i can't make this up

i once went to a wedding with a coworker

who is irish

and he literally said "whatever happened to the good old potato"

because of all the chinese food they were serving

[alpine wraith]

big potate

[tribal blade]

imagine that in an irish accent too lol

[sick swift]

Would it be dumb to say I want flagellation back

[lilac stag]

yes

[graceful osprey]

Bring back hemo

[sick swift]

I liked the animation lmao

[graceful osprey]

Hemo spam let’s gooo

[sick swift]

and didn't it just make our burst window even stronger?

[tribal blade]

i'm 100% down for hemo coming back

[sick swift]

I am relatively new to sub, didn't play it much until MFO and I only did it for 2 bosses then, full swapped to it until they (never) fix assassination

[tribal blade]

they wanted to tune down burst across the board in wow

[sick swift]

but we only exist during our burst windows lol

[tribal blade]

it's more so we only exist during dance now

[lilac stag]

you had to build flag burst. Now it’s actual burst (well burst in the sense of midnight) unless you’re a fdk

[sick swift]

^

[tribal blade]

OR ele

[sick swift]

Outside of dance backstab hits like a wet noodle on a rainy day, makes me sad

[tribal blade]

backstab doing no dmg is honestly fine

[peak ice]

Bruh the ele burst is crazy

[tribal blade]

it's just more annoying how stupid the spell is

[lilac stag]

Dmg outside of dance should be shit

[peak ice]

And then they just bottom out

[tribal blade]

doing 20% more dmg behind the target

and only getting FW from behind

is really dumb

it's weird to have a positioning requirement with a spell that does virtually no dmg

[lilac stag]

kills me not only from finding it annoying, I hate that Sectech isn’t the big boom and you’re only getting one in during blades. I want to feel alive when I press Sectech.

[wheat edge]

bring it back..

[lilac stag]

popping an evis doesn’t hit the same

[tribal blade]

TRUE i hate how little dmg sectec does now

[peak ice]

Is that damage bonus even worth it on some fights

[tribal blade]

honestly that could be really cool for pvp, for pve nah

but i remember when backstab was a nuclear button back in the day

that was a lot of fun

[light finch]

Talking about bad takes: Would you rather see them try to fix Deathstalkers Gameplay every 2 Patch Cycles with mild abilities like "Mark for Death" or would you rather like a new Hero Talent Tree altogether ?

[sick swift]

does sec tech not hit hard? with the 3 piece combo it does i'm usually clearing 700k on crits total, not counting ancient arts?

[wheat edge]

Gloomblade stock in season 2

[hazy breach]

Sectech does hit hard

[tribal blade]

my opinion is they just eat the bullet and give DS the between the eyes outlaw treatment and make mark a buff on the player

[lilac stag]

Get rid of shaman reliance.
Give rogue a crit dmg/heal raid buff
Make Sectech pet less dmg and feel like actual juice.

[hazy breach]

But ancient arts does not buff sectech very much

[tribal blade]

actually true yeah

if we could apex sectec

it would be doing some big numbers

[graceful osprey]

I think I wouldn’t mind burst be tuned down a bit. Don’t know if in practice it would be okay but I think back for classic vanilla to classic wrath and even cata and mop, damage outside of CDs still felt good

[lilac stag]

Go play outlaw

[small sleet]

I think our damage outside of cds feels pretty decent right now

[lilac stag]

[sick swift]

we do like.... tank damage outside of CDs lol

[random mason]

Yeah SD every 20s is good enough

[light finch]

I think they don't do it because it would stand out that Deathstalker and Trickster Core-Ability is essentially the same.

[peak ice]

Wait does improved backstab still do more damage from behind

[sick swift]

(shadow dance is a CD in my mind)

[graceful osprey]

Well…I do have another rogue alt for outlaw LOL

[lilac stag]

And we have CDs for 8-9 seconds every 20 seconds.

[tribal blade]

i also think they don't do it, mostly because they're quadrupling down on their DS design choices

[sick swift]

Oh I'm not upset, I still do good damage, I just wouldn't mind smoothing that peak/valley style a hair

[lilac stag]

you’re actually insane if you want to move dmg out of cds to storm and backstab

[wheat edge]

its more flat than war within atleast

[random mason]

You are only out of CDs for like 10z every 20s then

[graceful osprey]

I think that this made sub feel good for sure vs TWW

[lilac stag]

it’s a unique profile at least.

[sick swift]

I did say a HAIR, I'm not talking about nuking CDs and moving too much power into the base, that would be the opposite of the design style that is sub's damage profile

[lilac stag]

Not flat and not 45/90 or 60/120

[peak ice]

They just did that with the cloud nerfs didn’t they

[graceful osprey]

But I do miss the absolute nuke damage of TWW, especially with a maxed out prism and then on soulbinder

[peak ice]

Smoothed the burst

[light finch]

Its so funny, Rogues sometimes seem to be stuck in 2010 WoW Design, Unholy DKs Scythe was fixed in like 2 Month because its bad gamedesign, but Rogue gets "Redirect 3.0", gonna need 2 more Addons for them to understand that this design type is flawed in an Raidenvironment in 2026.

[vale pine]

i don't rly mind low damage outside of cooldowns

[graceful osprey]

Bring back prism pliss

[small sleet]

I also think deathstalker design is totally fine for sub

[peak ice]

It’s fine it’s just like, very specific

Which isn’t a bad thing

[lilac stag]

I mean I still miss dust but here we are.

[peak ice]

It’s just a lot to get 1110 investment

[small sleet]

That’s not an issue with ds design though

[graceful osprey]

I will say, it was mega dopamine in TWW when everything lined up

[small sleet]

That’s an issue with their haste shit

[lilac stag]

DS should be funnel.
Tricky should be cleave/aoe.

DS is just ST slop where people are happy to have “one more thing” to track

[tribal blade]

if they put strike and evis back on nimble

we will be eating GOOD again

[peak ice]

Ye

Agreed

[graceful osprey]

12.2 you’ll see

[hazy breach]

Idk i personally think having everything just passively cleave isnt fun design

[sick swift]

Strike and Evis on NF would have me spraying like a fire hydrant dawg

[light finch]

I think Nimble is pretty hard to balance for them, i mean its still pretty strong in AOE, just not totally busted.
Blackpowder Spam is just to boring.

[woeful barn]

Would you say TWW sub was closest to legion we’ve had. I really enjoyed it and tbh it’s still good now just a bit duller sometimes

[tribal blade]

that's fair yeah, i remember you saying you would like it if sub was the aoe powerhouse

[lilac stag]

It’s certainly better than our current cleave status of ZERO cleave.

[graceful osprey]

Just make it look cool. When we cleave, we have shadow clones spawn for each target that would be getting cleaved

[lilac stag]

and I’m not sure they’re smart enough to fix it

[sick swift]

Chexk that wouldn't work, they'd have to put work into our animations other than spinning and crouching when we do an attack

[lilac stag]

Can piss off warlocks even more then.

[light finch]

Could fix Nimble with a Choice Note (Nimble of Today / Nimble 3 Target Max Cleave like TWW)

So we are not totally cooked on 2-3 Target Cleave.

[hazy breach]

Well what i said was that i would be fine with having this type of dogshit cleave if the big aoe was stronger to make up for (either by less softcaps and/or some epicidemic style proc on BP)

[tribal blade]

yeah i would also be cool with that

sub IS supposed to be a spec that scales with targets

[hazy breach]

But i also think the nimble flurry nerfs at the start of the season was missguided

[tribal blade]

it's the core of the design

[hazy breach]

Couldve nerfed BP a tad bit more instead

[light finch]

They could roll back the AOE Nerf at the start of the Addon because they got scared when Rogue performed in M0.

[small sleet]

I mean they did, we got buffed like 17 times this tier lmao

[lilac stag]

My concern is once again we will look like we are performing well at the end of a tier due to last 2 bosses favoring dmg amps and st. Don’t let the entire don’t need a rogue at all this tier get in the way.

[tribal blade]

the good thing about the aoe nerfs was we got aura buffs after

which meant both our ST and AOE got better

i guess that's the 1 silver lining from it

[tribal blade]

probably yeah

[peak ice]

Eh I feel like the team liquid almost benching the rogue is something

[lilac stag]

We should do a poll. What will rogues swap to if no raid buff in 12.1. Ranged, Brown, Teal or Red.

[small sleet]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with us not being brought in rwf comps lmao. If our class did the same damage it did at start of tier, but we had a raid buff that made us worth bringing, would it actually feel any better

[open depot]

Assa on L’ura now is the play if you got crystals under control

[tribal blade]

lol probably red because i have a feeling DK is gonna be meta again for the 5th season in a row

[light finch]

The buffs have also played their part though, Sub is now doing well, except for Lightblinded.

Crit or Haste Raid buff would just be awesome.

[sick swift]

Are we bad on lightblinded? I feel like my time there has been decent

[peak ice]

Pretty bad yes

[lilac stag]

Yes. At the start of the tier (beta & w0) is where our dps currently is before the nerfs.

Sadly RWF impacts comps for many many players.

[sick swift]

Maybe I've just been lucky then. Anecdotal experience is hard to apply to the reality of a situation.