subtlety

[shy wigeon]

hey guys, is there possibly some kind of bug that if you play sub you suddenly get no value from haste?

[peak ice]

Never, trickster till I die

[warm marlin]

wdym no value

[shy wigeon]

guildie said that dance is baseline 6 sec and it should be increased by the haste

[lilac stag]

Untalented Darkest Night and retalent it.

[shy wigeon]

is that correct?

[ripe flame]

haste rating yes

[small sleet]

Deepening shadows not darkest night

[lilac stag]

Er shadows

Too much

[small sleet]

But ya untalent and retalent that

And it fixes it

[warm marlin]

im not even up to date on the new bugs

[shy wigeon]

okay that will be it. cause he was saying like he used that haste trinket from first boss and nothing was happening

[small sleet]

That bugs been around all patch

[lilac stag]

It’s the old one where shadows stops working

[small sleet]

Idk what causes it, I’ve never had it happen

[warm marlin]

oh hmm

never heard it or had it somehow

[ripe flame]

guidon has a thing where you need to wait like 1 sec

[peak ice]

Is he macroing it with blades and dance

[lilac stag]

just hits a memory leak I’m assuming

[ripe flame]

i believe there's a command or a mention of it in the pins or faq

[small sleet]

If his guildie has a 6 second dance he’s def got the deepening shadows bug regardless of if he’s using guidon correctly

[ripe flame]

true

[shy wigeon]

i checked few last pulls and seems its not macroed together

[peak ice]

Has he got 4 set?

[dusky yacht]

Guys do the mini bosses in crown move around like a lot in your raids?

[shy wigeon]

we are progging lura, so i would hope so that he had it

[dusky yacht]

I keep having to dodge pools in super awkward ways to keep dpsing

[shy wigeon]

but yeah he had it equipped

[dusky yacht]

Sick btw, sorry I was progging crown

[upbeat cradle]

noice

i died from dot+transition into p2 lmao

[dusky yacht]

I'm so exhausted

[lilac stag]

Which pools?

[upbeat cradle]

didn't get any heal for some reason*

[dusky yacht]

Small add pools, the ones that increase damage on the mini bosses

Feels like they are all over the place and the mini bosses are being moved around like crazy

[upbeat cradle]

i need to practice DS more

[lilac stag]

kill them on bosses. Tel range to stop griefing

[dusky yacht]

But somehow I'm still high dps tho

I thought it was something like that

[upbeat cradle]

yeah sub usually has big damage on that phase

[dusky yacht]

I just feel like

[lilac stag]

You are until you can’t get blades off on last add

[ember hull]

am i allowed to send a hitting the dummies clip in here

[dusky yacht]

Every time the adds randomly are dying on the boss instead of everywhere all at once, I'm 200k dps higher those attempts and we kill them super ez, but then other attempts it's chaos because they are dying all over

[upbeat cradle]

oh that's normal

whenever a sub rogue is doing well

it's gonna be a wipe

[dusky yacht]

[upbeat cradle]

just die when fight starts, the boss will die too

[ember hull]

this the best opener ive gotten on ds so far, i fuck it up a little in cause that dn was ready to go right when blades ended and i ran out

[lilac stag]

Your tanks need to get the adds. Your range needs to not pull them off tanks

That’s it

[dusky yacht]

I see

Eh I'll just give it more time this was our first real prog on it

I tried to tell them that on the guide video the minibosses moves a lot less so that's all I can do more for that part of the fight I guess

[small sleet]

At like 38s into the clip, when you eviscerate to clear your last mark and proc dn, you should’ve just waited til shadow dance was like 1 second off, then eviscerated

[ember hull]

yeah thats exactly when i was like

this is wrong

xD

but like ive gotten after a minute or so dps up to be like 20-30k higher than before

[small sleet]

It looks like you’ve got it 99% down though yeah

[night sparrow]

3h of Lura tonight. DS pulls : 1
F this lets go back to Trickster

[somber sun]

broo!!

we were clearing dragons after 2 wipes and our priests + rl said after " use pi buffs on our rogue, this guy is pumping " 🥲

over 2x dh and dks

[swift tinsel]

Holy based

[patent ermine]

is there a list of embelishment strengths % difference between them

[keen yew]

although it's so goated man you're missing out

[bronze hatch]

ok I think I see. When I sectech, I want all my marks, so I can benefit from the mark.
So, when I shadow-dance IF I have CPs dedicated to DN Evis to replenish marks, that's fine, just use the next GCD for Sectech during dance.

But if I dont have DN, just dance-sectech as normal.

[hollow spear]

Any priest that uses PI on sub rogue is one more example of why PI should be binned

[bronze hatch]

its so lulzy to get it, here have an extra sectech

[hollow spear]

I think on a random heroic farm pug I got a 100 parse cancelled because I had received too many PI

In TWW3 that is

Still mad

[west tide]

i love lura as ds

so much fuckin st dam its insane lol

prayge for the ring

[small sleet]

Another super minor thing that idk if it’s even worth focusing on is that near the end of your blades, you come up on a situation where you have apex active and 3 stacks of mark. You used 2 finishers, generated, then used an apexed evis that didn’t quite fit into blades. What you coulda done is used 1 finisher, then generated, then used an apex finisher followed by a normal evis that would land outside of blades. I’m sure it’s extremely minor, but I noticed that situation happens decently often on opener, so I just got myself used to trying to apex at 2 mark stacks near the end of my second dance in blades

[bronze hatch]

apex still ideal for evis ok

[hollow spear]

You kinda lost me there, it's midnight

[small sleet]

Basically all this boils down to is reacting to cringe quietus procs and trying to fix the terrible gameplay it adds

[hollow spear]

What's the gain? You got 1 finisher, 1 apex finisher and a builder in example 1, what is different in example 2?

[small sleet]

I saw the buffs wrong, he gets a quietus proc off dn that moves his stacks from 3 to 2 which causes the weird situation

[small sleet]

Apexed finisher gets moved into blades, non apexed finisher gets moved out

It’s insanely minor realistically

[hollow spear]

ah yeah, got it now

[alpine wraith]

depends on how next dance is coming along too

[ember hull]

i see what you mean

[hollow spear]

anything that is not DN is basically garbanzo, let's be honest

[ember hull]

ima need to be real locked to notice that in the moment, i may need a sound for my apex

[hollow spear]

maybe sectec gets a brownie point

[ember hull]

but that will be like all the time

[hollow spear]

nothing sadder than having to send a non apexed DN because you'd otherwise miss the dance duration

[small sleet]

I wouldn’t worry about focusing on it, it’s just the sort of thing you might notice the more comfortable you get on it

[hollow spear]

even though I am not even sure what's worse

[small sleet]

Apexing it is stronger I’m p sure

[hollow spear]

so builder during dance + apex DN outside is more dam than DN inside + builder outside

based on your feelycraft

[small sleet]

I think so, but you’ve also made a mistake to get yourself in this situation I think

[bronze hatch]

dis too much theorying for me to draw a reliable conclusion from

[hollow spear]

it can happen at the end of your 2nd dance during blades

afaik

if you get some quietus procs going on

[small sleet]

Fuckin quietus procs making it so inconsistent man

[hollow spear]

would have to check my logs but I swear I had it happen

there's also the situation where you get back to DN in your first dance but that krangles your 2nd dance because you cannot supercharge the next DN

drives me nuts

[bronze hatch]

wait so # of marks on the target matters for sectech/dn?

[small sleet]

You don’t have to use second dance immediately

[hollow spear]

yeah but realistically you lose like 2 seconds of overlap

[worldly root]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

especially in the non lusted opener with less sht

it's all super niche and hard to tell what's actually the play

[small sleet]

Can always use vanish to fix your stacks that’s kinda what it’s there for as ds

[west tide]

chat just apex ur dns

[hollow spear]

I'll go through my vids after tomorrow's raid

some real voodoo magic going on sometimes

[bronze hatch]

this is much simpler for my tiny brain tx

[undone crag]

am i reading this right? i can macro my guidon to shadow blades? i just need to keep dance/ST maco seperate to acct for the delay?

[small sleet]

You shouldn’t do that cuz it wastes a second of blades

[bronze hatch]

banner plants

[west tide]

8% wipe p4

was our 2nd time there

its free boys

ds goated

this misplayin too lmfao

ds is way harder than trickster like x5

[bronze hatch]

Im ok with that bc trickster is fucking brain dead

a hero talent can outperform while being more complex and Im ok with it

[west tide]

u have to make sure u have darkst night up before the boss splits

or u lose it

[bronze hatch]

splits? u mean safeguard matrix and crystals?

[west tide]

i mean after p2 when u get knocked and she splits into 2

[hazy breach]

Thats a mythic only mechanic

[bronze hatch]

gotcha

[hollow spear]

My latest dumb idea was delaying blades by a second on ds to move it away from storm

But ig the procs etc actually do dam

[bronze hatch]

still seems weird we'd use a builder and not a finisher first in dance, why is that?
explain like im dumb cuz i am

[small sleet]

One major reason is that there’s a bug which prevents your first finisher from benefitting from apex talents while you have premed active. When playing trickster we don’t care because sectech getting apexed doesn’t matter, but for ds we really want to apex our first dn evis

[bronze hatch]

ahh bugs now george understadn

[frozen edge]

we dont wanna play ds on keys right?

[bronze hatch]

you COULD if you hate yourself

[west tide]

trickster better in m+ and like most bosses in raid

[alpine wraith]

ds is very behind trickster in m+

[normal chasm]

All lura logs i can find are using set tech first in opener, would kind of like to find one that plays the way as rec in the pins so I can get a better idea for rotation

[west tide]

however i think ima just play ds on every boss in farm

[bronze hatch]

ngl the Caustic Spatter-style black powder splash is super satisfying

[small sleet]

In opener we don’t have dn yet

[warm marlin]

I’m in a pug chimaerus and my group lead is insta declining everyone who writes CE

[bronze hatch]

works surprisingly well on dragon adds, well, at least it did on heroic first week

[normal chasm]

Wait does that mean I should start blades with sec tech, the other ones with a DN evis?

[west tide]

i miss weakauras cause i never remember to shadowdance before pulls

[alpine wraith]

tell him in my regard

CE

[bronze hatch]

shiruken storm - > sectech in first dance I think?

[small sleet]

On opener your first finisher will be sectech, but every other blades after your first finisher will be dn evis yeah

[craggy quail]

this DS build will be used in M+ and raid?

[normal chasm]

Ah thank you useful to know!

[craggy quail]

or just on m+

[small sleet]

No single target only

[bronze hatch]

Hold dance for DN?

[craggy quail]

ty

[west tide]

as long as its in supercharge dont matta

[small sleet]

It does matter

[bronze hatch]

Supercharge DN, get sectech in the dance, apex the DN?

[small sleet]

If you use dn evis as your first finisher, you can cycle back to a second one in dance every time

[hollow spear]

Yup

[bronze hatch]

So just opener thats funny

[small sleet]

Inside of blades you have enough haste where it doesn’t matter tho

[hollow spear]

Feels so good

[west tide]

so we get premed everytime we use sdance right?

[hollow spear]

Yes

[west tide]

and its bugged so if i am full combo points and i have dn apex somehow and i sdance evis thats not optimal

or should i just munch cp with the storm macro

[small sleet]

Yeah it’s better to munch combo points

But you’d obviously prefer to just not enter sd with combo points

[bronze hatch]

just tested apex DN, and I will be doing that FOREVER.
goddamn strong; thanks sub discord!!

[west tide]

yeah i feel like it happens often tho

[bronze hatch]

often enough to track forsure
often enough that i need to slightly alter playstyle too; but strong

[left peak]

https://i.imgur.com/013T6yQ.png

[bronze hatch]

but watching 2 DN Evis's nail was almost as satisfying as a full powered Sectech 🤤

[small sleet]

Basically you should stop using finishers at one stack left, then when dance is coming up, evis to proc dn and empty combo points. There’s a lot of downtime with ds that feels wrong but isn’t

[bronze hatch]

im at 1109 and I ALMOST have enough to fit another Sectech in at the end of opener Shadow Blades and Dance; should I grab more Haste?

[small sleet]

No

[west tide]

yeah just feels so lame to afk like 10 seconds

[small sleet]

You don’t care about second sectech in blades

[west tide]

max fuckin energy

[bronze hatch]

bc lingering darkness right?

ohh in blades

[small sleet]

It’s more like cuz sectech does way less damage on ds than trickster, and it’s better to optimize around dn evis than sectechs

[bronze hatch]

Cool that makes a lot more sense

[alpine wraith]

you can stab but remember to cancel apex

[west tide]

i cant afford a cancel keybind rn

[hollow spear]

Just have to remind yourself that bs basically heals the boss

[west tide]

lmfaoo

[small sleet]

Just don’t press the backstabs imo lmao

[bronze hatch]

RESIST

[hollow spear]

Trickster really did us dirty

[west tide]

thats more dps to backstab tho

[hollow spear]

Can't hold it in anymore

[west tide]

ima need a cancel macro

[bronze hatch]

spoiled me
I still wanna just play MACRO 121212121212

[normal chasm]

Should i be entering dances with 5 shadow techniques each time to get auto apex on first DN evis?

[small sleet]

Yes

[normal chasm]

Just asking because it feels like to do that i have to press like no buttons in the downtime from CDs

[drifting ether]

Yo reldo I sent you a pm 🙂

[small sleet]

Uhh, it’s not usually that bad especially with skyfury, and as long as you’re not capping both sd charges, waiting a couple seconds is fine

[normal chasm]

That's true, mostly been trying ds on dummy without skyfury, so thank you

[west tide]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[west tide]

what about darkest night no dance buff at 5 or more stacks lowkey i was proccin apex on that too cause why not

while waiting for my sblades cd that was in like 15 secs

[small sleet]

If you can cycle back through in time it’s good to send an apexed dn outside of dance yeah

[fallow ingot]

Man my raid night as DS on lura was so fun

blasting boss dmg kekw

[tall dawn]

Stupid question sorry: do we need two gear sets now - a high haste one for ST and a 700 haste one for M+?

[runic sinew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bronze hatch]

Meh I just swap rings and flasks

[fallow ingot]

yeah idealy

[tall dawn]

ty!

[fallow ingot]

in patch 12.0.7 it will be easier to get the haste cap with rootmire ring

[flint veldt]

Ugh I leveled as Sub, had a blast but geared for outlaw and Assa now realizing I do not enjoy either as much as Sub and have like no Mastery or Bonus rolls left. Feel like I'd be better off leveling another rogue atp I'm cooked

[swift tinsel]

secondaries are fine as long as you have enough haste

and not a shit ton of vers

[peak ice]

Just recraft and change a ring

[manic ice]

I noticed sim sample apl doesn’t always wait to supercharge sectech. It just uses it later in the dance window. This just a sim thing and not something we normally do in practice

[flint veldt]

3% vers, 23% haste rn, trinket aqusition is where I'm most concerned. I have 2 bonus rolls per week and haven't started going for gaze or guidon yet

It's my alt so my myth crest are discounted but I used all my bonus rolls in skyreach and pit for outlaw then realized I hated it lol

[swift tinsel]

the gear you wanted from pit/skyreach is also good for sub

[flint veldt]

Yeah I did notice sub favors a lot of crafted which seems nice. Just have zero on use trinkets either lol

[peak ice]

If you have a myth offhand for outlaw

You’re fine

[flint veldt]

I'm also lacking embelishments rn cause my dumbass rolled as assa in skyreach so I have 2x myth track daggers and no crafted wep

haha I am my own worst enemy xD

[peak ice]

Just use dual arcano

[flint veldt]

kk

[peak ice]

It’s not that much of a difference

[flint veldt]

that's good to know at least, haven't simmed anything yet

[ripe comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flint veldt]

you guys are goats thanks for the input

[peak ice]

800 haste without guidon is the go though

Or whatever garbo ds is running

[flint veldt]

mainly plan on m+ just will raid to get trinks

I'm at 856 haste so seems like I just gotta replace my crit with mastery where I can and start hunting some trinkets

[small sleet]

You don’t supercharge the second sectech in blades, the sim is correct

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[sweet moss]

how much dmg does nexus ring give us

[hazy breach]

It does like 0.5% of your damage on pure ST

So its not massive

but its free damage, similar to the alleria neck

[sweet moss]

oki nice ty

[peak ice]

Good stats too and easy to get cause both from same like 6 drop dungeon

[sweet moss]

yah for sure

[peak ice]

Psb and bifurcation are also good

[manic ice]

refering to outside of blades

[peak ice]

But annoying to get

[sweet moss]

ppl bothering with deathstalker then/

[peak ice]

Seems like it

[small sleet]

Are you lookin at the sim for deathstalker or trickster? Ds doesn’t care about supercharging sectech

[peak ice]

Can you get 2 sectecs in a non blades dance

For trickster

[small sleet]

Are you asking like, hypothetically or in practice lmao

[sweet moss]

are u going death

[hazy breach]

I was playing deathstalker before

[peak ice]

Dance is 10s ish without guidon right?

[hazy breach]

No

[small sleet]

Uh it’s like 7.4 or somethin

[peak ice]

Isn’t it 6+4?

[hazy breach]

7.4 with 700 haste
Around 9.2 with 1100

[manic ice]

ok, pin suggests using second SC on techtech. unless im miss intupreting what "use sectech after refund" means

[small sleet]

It’s one of those things where if you can supercharge it you do, but you arent playing around supercharging it, so there’s scenarios where you have dance ready and dn evis up and the sim won’t wait for sectech to get close enough to supercharge it because it’s more dps not to

[manic ice]

ok, then that answers the original question 🙂

[small sleet]

With pi, lust, and haste reck pot with the first dance talented the answer is probably yes

[sweet moss]

How many of myythic bosses is DS better?

[hazy breach]

Pretty sure haste reck pot + tfd is enough by itself

But yeah dont do that

Its ungood

[small sleet]

I figured not all of it was necessary lmao

[hazy breach]

I have used reck potion for haste before by accidently using it after guidon, would NOT recommend

[small sleet]

But this reminds me that I need to try the super duper optimal pre key tech of haste set reck potting, then swapping to normal gear as key starts, and using a macro that casts shadow dance, cancelauras reck pot, and casts mastery reck pot, guidon, shadow blades and sectech

I’m patenting that shit for when it becomes mainstream standard tech

[hazy breach]

[alpine wraith]

my man burning the whole kitchen

but try it

[small sleet]

LOL

[hazy breach]

Doesnt guidon reset when you start a key

So you dont need to bother with the haste set

[alpine wraith]

he will gear to have haste as best stat

[small sleet]

Dunno, most minute 30 stuff doesn’t reset I thought

[alpine wraith]

guidon does nto reset i think

i might have pressed the macro

and blades did but guidon didnt kekw

[small sleet]

Blades does cuz it used to be 2 min at some point right?

Idk the shit that resets is so inconsistent

[short radish]

bro

what

i understand all of this

and i hate it

that i now want to try it

[hazy breach]

Its only really good in a few keys where you can actually hit stuff right after the bubble goes down

Like caverns and skyreach

[small sleet]

LOOL

[short radish]

yeah so

Seat/skyreach/caverns(?)/spire(?)

not nexus/aa

maybe MT?

whats the other dung ive forgotten

oh pit

[hazy breach]

Ye fair theres quite a few

[small sleet]

You don’t have to be able to hit stuff immediately, you have 20 seconds of haste reck pot before you have to hit dance

But there’s legit no way this is worth the effort LOL

[short radish]

yeah honestly this sounds better than regular reckless tech

im just worried

someones going to put the key in early

[hazy breach]

Well the dance is only going to be like 20 seconds

[short radish]

im getting shadowlands legendary vibes again

[hazy breach]

Aka ~10 seconds of actual dungeon time

Or well i see

[small sleet]

No because you don’t have to hit the dance until you’re going into combat

[short radish]

yeah

better than usual reckless tech

[hazy breach]

I thought you meant using a dance perkey

But you could do both ig

You lose the tfd on your first actual dance though, so probably not worth

[short radish]

just don't play with TFD anymore anyway

[hazy breach]

I have like 300 crit, finality aint that great

[short radish]

i have crit = mastery

[swift tinsel]

the random pug phys comp

[hazy breach]

(i obviously could swap things around, im just masterymaxxing)

[hexed sluice]

https://klipy.com/gifs/star-wars-the-mandalorian-81

[brisk onyx]

「These rune powers will be available to players throughout the rest of the Midnight expansion」does this mean the 「Folio」will exist permanently throughout the entire midnight?

[hazy breach]

Thats how its written yes

[brisk onyx]

[short radish]

i love my 4 week slop

[hazy breach]

But afaik at their current powerlevel theyre quite unimpactful

[brisk onyx]

nice they've finally stopped designing farm power that can only exist for a few weeks

[hazy breach]

That could obviously change

But yeah i prefer this to an onyx annulet 3.0

But im not quite sure why we need it to begin with, the new raid gear should be sufficient for a 0.7 power upgrade

[brisk onyx]

Perhaps it's just a kpi tactic to "retain players".

[alpine wraith]

maybe

[hazy breach]

Yeah if there wasnt a new raid i would understand

But there is

or well, new raid boss singular

[alpine wraith]

imagine new boss is uu nat lvl

[hazy breach]

Its definitely not

Its seems similar to chimerus

in terms of complexity

[north schooner]

they cannot make it too hard or they will scare mythic first timers away

[hazy breach]

And the fact that its 15-25 man

Instead of 20 flat

Means that its going to be tuned way more leniently

[west tide]

dude the last one says it stores damage done

[hazy breach]

As a "stepping stone" inbetween heroic and actual mythic

[west tide]

gotta time it with my burst

[surreal orbit]

If we have all secondary stats exactly the same value and pop a reck does the server explode

[alpine wraith]

yea so triple his stats

do a diablo 3 inferno

make people cry and hear the lamentation that 20 raid size was not the problem

they were just bad

[hazy breach]

Iirc its just random if you have the same amount

[surreal orbit]

Damn

[random mason]

Thing is, if its anything like hc low group size is just gonna make the fights harder

Lura 10man must be horrible

[surreal orbit]

You just get one symbol

[random mason]

Half the group got crystals

[somber sun]

what's the bare minimum haste amount for DS ?

[sweet moss]

is any haste over 700 for trickster fullyy useless? like versa is better ect?

[hazy breach]

yes

Not like 100% useless

But vers is definitely better

[sweet moss]

worth swapping to the legs on the right then? or still not worth

not sure why i dont just sim it

mb

[random mason]

Recraft gear to crit mastery?

[brisk onyx]

you mean darkmoon blood card?

[random mason]

Also secret tech to run adamantite sharp stone on MH for dmg and less haste

[brisk onyx]

If you can adjust three stats to have the same value, the darkmoon blood seems to increase in all three stats.

Before

and after

[sweet moss]

and then change socket?

[brisk onyx]

this guy keep haste highest

and crit=vera=mastery

[random mason]

Yeah its just a math exercise

[swift tinsel]

anyone know off the top of their head how much haste the Aetherlume boots/bracers give

[hazy breach]

But you need all stats to be exactly the same right

So its insanely hard to setup

Even at 2 its surely better than hunt

[brisk onyx]

just a fun test

[hazy breach]

Probably even worth running the trinket at 3

[sweet moss]

and its 700 haste > any combination of crit/mast > versa

for trick

[random mason]

Yeah

Mastery is a bit better if you only care about aoe, crit is a bit better up to a certain point if you only care about ST

[shrewd lantern]

arent the cards an embellishment themselves

[random mason]

Yeah

[ionic wave]

did the devs fix the premed bug?

[earnest crane]

why a preist want fix the premed bug

[sweet moss]

what certain point for crit?

ST i mean

[hazy breach]

They did not randomly rework premed outside of a patch no

[dull lichen]

Heya guys, just curious, would you say sub is okay or good for pushing keys. Or is it mostly Outlaw?

[ionic wave]

lol so i shouldn't spec back into it?

[hazy breach]

You should have it specced

[ionic wave]

bet

[shrewd lantern]

why would you not spec it with scruples build

[manic ice]

how are ppl procing Darkest Night off of 2 finishers in the opener. Strike>evic>Dance+blades+storm>Sechtech = procs Darkest Night.

normally i have to use an extra evic to proc it

[shrewd lantern]

that's not how you spell dk

[hazy breach]

You get lucky and proc Quietus Celeris

[latent remnant]

#subtlety message you're like 3 weeks late with speccing back into it

[sweet moss]

subs fine, assa and outlaw better in higher keys

[manic ice]

i see it now, thanks

[ionic wave]

thanks for the link, i prob pop my head in once a month. not like the fixes get announced on wowhead.

[shrewd lantern]

....what

[latent remnant]

it's in the pinned messages, should always just check those out

[shrewd lantern]

the tuning notes were though

😭

"maybe i should see if the tcs already mathed it"

idk

[ionic wave]

are you ok?

[random mason]

My sim it stopped at ~850 crit but just sim the gear you have

[small sleet]

All 3 rogue specs are capable of all key levels

[shrewd lantern]

i just find it funny people dont check for pins when tuning passes happen

[ionic wave]

then say it upfront. all these weird anime responses aint it lol.

[manic glen]

So, based on the pinned video, we can sit and auto attack to get to 5ST then send into dance combo right?

[random mason]

Easiest way to check is to always sim mastery and crit flask

[manic glen]

like we should always just hold a little for the 5 stack?

[shrewd lantern]

Imagine calling it that because its not unc speak.

👀

[sweet moss]

Okay thanks

boys is 699 haste fine? XD

[shrewd lantern]

its like 684 or sum shit

[ionic wave]

sure man. post it to reddit lol.

[shrewd lantern]

reddit

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[sweet moss]

fr?

684 if ur goated

[short radish]

wtf is a weird anime response?

[sweet moss]

so pretty much equal crit/mast is bis

i can get like 950 of each

[shrewd lantern]

idk unc had to type between back snaps

[short radish]

im just trying to understand what an "weird anime response" even refers to

[random mason]

Yeah just check if you can squeeze out 2 more dps by spending 7k on new gems every now and then

[shrewd lantern]

darkmoon blood tech real?

[shy ferry]

has anyone else gottent he bug(?) where shadow blades sometimes gets ahead of guidon on cd?

[small sleet]

Affix

[shy ferry]

oh

[small sleet]

Haha

[shrewd lantern]

yeah you're doing rat keys

[alpine wraith]

i kinda find it endearing

[shy ferry]

does it do that?

[alpine wraith]

i even forgot that affix exited

yea it gives cdr

[shy ferry]

lmao i just assumed it was a bug xD

[small sleet]

Affix reduces cooldowns but not trinkets for whatever reason

[shrewd lantern]

it exists on fake key levels

i.e below 12

[brisk onyx]

follow blood is better than another?

[patent ermine]

I just got home and tested the "combo points refill instantly" @left ledge and mine is delayed like that guy was complaining about

default blizz UI

[shy ferry]

lowkey its kind of annoying, my brain sees SB off cd so i do the thing then realise guidon didnt get used xD

[shrewd lantern]

the affix is nice for sub

[patent ermine]

definitely different than the video you uploaded

[shrewd lantern]

besides that

[short radish]

this question pops up every 4 weeks

but yeah it is a pain

idk just run puzzle this week

[swift tinsel]

why am I like this

[short radish]

seek help

[swift tinsel]

I'm too far gone I fear

[random mason]

I might make a set just so i can be free from orb duty on saladbar

[elder fulcrum]

Tried searching if this had been asked and didn’t see it, but should I be manually canceling Tricks on a tank death in a key to prevent mobs from kiting to entrance?

[swift tinsel]

I have nothing else to use crests on and I don't wanna use a champ crown neck or some hodge podge hero track gear lol

[short radish]

probably too late if this happens

[swift tinsel]

gonna craft bracers later

maybe roll pit for belt

[random mason]

Wouldnt chimmy belt be better

More haste

[swift tinsel]

I've only gotten gaze from there so far and I have belt/cloak yet in pit

and we already killed chim yesterday and I didn't feel like rolling lol

[elder fulcrum]

Yeah feels like it for sure. When bear guild friend goes down, it usually strings into 3 deaths from it. I can tell he’s biting his tongue from blaming me.

[short radish]

im saving my bonus rolls for alleria and lura (when we kill it)

[swift tinsel]

ah, we're def not getting there

probs ending voidspire after dragons then maybe doing egg, or hiatus for a week or two before sporefall

[random mason]

Time to just play blackjack

[short radish]

if your tank is dying often enough for this to be a problem then honestly you have other issues

but yeah just dont take perma tricks

[small sleet]

As long as you stop hitting the mobs before they release you have plenty of time to cancel it

[left ledge]

weird i mean

i have the default combo points

idk what could be different

[small sleet]

Just have to turn around and sit down and accept your death

[left ledge]

surely there's some sort of setting affecting that

[short radish]

insta release

[small sleet]

Just gotta only play keys high enough where the tank doesn’t release because the key is over if they die

[short radish]

[swift tinsel]

good enough with a ring and boots swap +r1 haste flask lol

[abstract cosmos]

how does ds feel in mythic+

[swift tinsel]

ew no don't do that

inferior to trickster in every way

[tribal blade]

probably dogshit

[abstract cosmos]

prio seems good in high keys tho ig

[peak ice]

so is aoe

[hazy breach]

Yeah but its not worth giving up 20% of your aoe to do 15% more prio damage

You can achieve similar results by weaving in an eviscerate in every dance as trickster

[tribal blade]

if you're really concerned about prio you either start spamming evis or swap to sin

this season the specs sub wants to play with have a lot of prio anyways like arms warr

[small sleet]

just play with a sin rogue

[tribal blade]

so it's not like other seasons where you would have 2 ungabunga aoe specs and 1 huge funnel spec

[small sleet]

we did a seat with sin, sub, arms and it felt pretty good honestly

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[small sleet]

we finished first boss sub 5 mins, actually crazy fast

[peak ice]

is enchance sham still good

[small sleet]

its ok

[brisk onyx]

some people have some strange ideas about priority damage. In fact, even the trickster doesn't do a bad job. If you want more, try playing sin, or choose suitable mates (such as arm warrior), instead of trying to be the best at everything.

[coral bear]

When is it worth to shuriken storm on deathstalker? when theres adds?

Im on Lura

Trying to know if i spam shuriken storm when crystal spawns

as a builder

[swift tinsel]

sitting farming the 5 sht as DS without skyfury is oofta gross

also firmly hating quietus as well

[small sleet]

i think if youre in dance just keep shadowstriking imo

[swift tinsel]

unshakeable drive go brr

pining for big Singular Focus

[sturdy mortar]

@plush roost you cook up some demon DS M+ tech yet?

[swift tinsel]

evisc at 43-44% of overall is funny

looking through logs from yesterday/today

[small sleet]

if charrend tries bringing ds sub into keys im gonna personally start rumors about him to get him blacklisted from m+ in na

[swift tinsel]

no no let him

he gets everything nerfed

its the perfect crime

[drifting ether]

If only it was better I’d play it

[swift tinsel]

the gameplay in st has some flow to it, but idk

its just not for me

[hazy breach]

I feel like the flow is pretty good, as long as you dont get "lucky" and proc the extra mark

[swift tinsel]

a normal dance setup feels pretty solid, that part I'll admit

[hazy breach]

But yeah trying to "restore" your good setup after you get out of sync

Feels really janky

[swift tinsel]

I've also fudged the guidon/blades setup a couple times and that throws my whole thing off a lot

but that's just stubborn old muscle memory

def went into it not liking it and I'm trying to give it an honest go, can consistently hit ~st sim value so I feel I've got most of th gist of it

maybe change Quietus to make your mark do double damage or something instead

[silver hearth]

Does shadowstrike hit more than one target?

[swift tinsel]

nope

no longer nimble flurries

[sturdy mortar]

I had a set when practicing, where it looked like every empowered cp had a DN/Apex, and I thought I was in "flow state".

[silver hearth]

okay so on a fight like vanguard, do I want to be shadowstriking each of them to get all of them fazed from unseen blade?

[swift tinsel]

sectech will faze them all

[silver hearth]

gotchya, I am still trying to figure out why in top parses their coup de grace is hitting so much harder than mine

[swift tinsel]

so you don't need to tab target faze them or anything like that

[plush roost]

ds m+ isnt real unfortunately

o7

[swift tinsel]

make Singular Combo-strong

compete with Wounded Quarry

[coral bear]

even with 5 adds?

[small sleet]

ya you shouldnt really need the extra combo points

[coral bear]

what about

[small sleet]

and it will be more boss damage to shadowstrike

[coral bear]

black powder? @small sleet

if u dont have my bonus eviscerate damage

[swift tinsel]

strike does more damage esp with the hero talents buffing it

[small sleet]

i black powder some

if you have dn up, you shouldnt black powder obviously, but if adds are out and im at like 3 stacks of mark i'll hit some black powders

but thats really just padding probably

[swift tinsel]

idk bp is still good damage

but probs depends on if the adds really need to die

vs just letting the aoe burst specs handle that and you keep boss/prio killing

[small sleet]

if the adds need to die you should prob swap to trickster to be fair

[swift tinsel]

ye

DS kind of just a bigger boss tunneler like sub already kinda is

[coral bear]

i mean

shoudnlt need

just need good grips

[west tide]

i still throw some bps out why not

[tribal blade]

something about funneling with singular focus

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/someday-spongebob-maybe-gif-4686651

[runic sinew]

someone has the breakpoint haste for sub?

[small sleet]

700 for trickster, 1100 for deathstalker

[coral bear]

Yo

Im confused

Why sometime when i do my opener

With deathstalker

after my 1st eviscerate

im already at 1 stack left

[coral bear]

oyh

u answered

before i even finished

thx

[small sleet]

lmao

[coral bear]

Should I shadow art my secret technique?

or its not worth

wasdting a GCD

ont hat

[small sleet]

not worth

[coral bear]

okok thx

[small sleet]

on ds, you dont intentionally apex anything but dn evis

[fossil forge]

Apex deez nuts lil boa

[gilded thistle]

can someone tell me why my shadow dance is off by 1 on this pull? I swear I'm doing everything exactly the same way I normally do when I don't have this issue.

it was happening all night and I don't understand why

[coral bear]

is ur guidon

[fossil forge]

i get random key in my YouTube recommendation i open i see u in a scuffed phys comp with a fire mage ? @small sleet

[coral bear]

placed 1s before?

[fossil forge]

wthelly

[gilded thistle]

yes

you can see it in the video

oh

[coral bear]

uhm lust or that

[gilded thistle]

sorry it's macro'd to shadow blades

[coral bear]

then no

[gilded thistle]

no what

[coral bear]

Guidon

needs time

to hit the ground

[gilded thistle]

you can see I wait for it

[coral bear]

before u get the haste effect

[gilded thistle]

yes I know

[coral bear]

oh

[gilded thistle]

and I hold it for a second in the video

as you can see

[small sleet]

LOL thats my gm

[gilded thistle]

I pop shadow dance and guidon together then wait a sec

[coral bear]

oin pull?

[gilded thistle]

yes

[coral bear]

wait

[swift tinsel]

you dont do that

[coral bear]

U pop shadowdance and guidon together?

[fossil forge]

Blud was blasting though 🚫 🧢

[swift tinsel]

unless you mean blades, not dance

[gilded thistle]

oh

fuck

sorry

yeah I meant dance

wait

NO

[coral bear]

dance?

[gilded thistle]

I MEANT BLADES

[coral bear]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pants-underwear-explosion-explode-gif-2198738710490471868

[fossil forge]

Bro what are you smoking on

[swift tinsel]

was gonna say you def hit guidon with blades not dance in the vod lol

[gilded thistle]

dude this fucking spec has too many shadow words

[fossil forge]

Pass the plug

[coral bear]

FRL

[fossil forge]

thats some of that premium topshelf gas

[gilded thistle]

im on that crazy shit tn

anyways as you can see I'm giving time for guidon to apply

so why my fucking dance off

[fossil forge]

How bro

Where are u tracking the second

Or just feels?

[gilded thistle]

feels

[fossil forge]

ur ui is so scuffed i dont see anything men

[gilded thistle]

I've pulled enough to know roughly how long it is

[fossil forge]

idk i use atrocity

I use trinket

I see trinket cd on 1:29

I go crazy

[coral bear]

u can see

the buffs

hes fine

[gilded thistle]

yeah I'm 99% sure this isnt a guidon issue

[coral bear]

hes fine

Did u try downloading haste?

[gilded thistle]

my parses were horrendous all night cuz of this

[coral bear]

like u download ram?

[fossil forge]

Maybe talent in and out of deepening?

[coral bear]

PVP SPEC?

[gilded thistle]

no

i dont even have a pvp spec set up

I'm still running trickster even

[coral bear]

how much haste

u got

rn

[gilded thistle]

705

with buffs

like I said this never happens

[gilded thistle]

it just started tonight

I don't need haste flask

I have 705 without it

[fossil forge]

Mic drop

[coral bear]

kk cause u said

WITH BUFF

with oil ok

[gilded thistle]

yes as in I have 705 with oils

lol

[coral bear]

oil up

[fossil forge]

No diddy?

[high star]

Crit flask isn’t better?

[coral bear]

no diddy

just do it

[gilded thistle]

not relevant to my issue

[coral bear]

not with new tricksters talent

[fossil forge]

Mastery is king 👑

1500 mastery dream soon

[gilded thistle]

this is what im workin with

fully buffed

flask/oils/food

(this screenshot cost me 1k)

[coral bear]

WHY FLASK

FOR IT

😭

[fossil forge]

Flex on the brokies

[coral bear]

Wheres ut vantus rune

[fossil forge]

always

[gilded thistle]

im not that insane

not gonna vantus for that

[gilded thistle]

im gonna go pug some shit so i can at least use the flask

[coral bear]

DeathStalker SPEC

[gilded thistle]

more like cringestalker

[fossil forge]

Blud used a flask just to have a vers dagger..

[gilded thistle]

???

this was for haste breakpoint

[fossil forge]

Gg

[gilded thistle]

I dont have bel dagger either

my alt is mastery vers lol

but I needed haste

[timid rose]

last thing yo uwanna do is get judged for having some versa... that's why you didn't vantus 😄

[gilded thistle]

so true

[fossil forge]

i have the Bel dagger i want the skyreach one though ..

[gilded thistle]

yeah the SR dagger would be based

not lucky enough for it tho

so anyways what the fuck is wrong with my shadow dance

is this a bug or something

[fossil forge]

no idea brochacho

Did u try what i said earlier

[small sleet]

mouse over the deepening shadows talent

see if it says 0.00 sec

if it does, untalent it and talent back into it

[gilded thistle]

nah says 1.44

[small sleet]

gg shit game then

[fossil forge]

Wthelly

[coral bear]

lag

[gilded thistle]

feels fucking bad

[small sleet]

wait i just watched the clip

that looks like the normal duration for shadow dance

with 700 haste and guidon

[gilded thistle]

yes

which is why I don't understand where my shadow dance is going

by the time blades is back up I have no second charge to use with it

[small sleet]

was this boss pull logged

[gilded thistle]

i can upload

forgot to live

sec

[small sleet]

i think i found it

vorasius today right?

[gilded thistle]

yeah

like 30 mins ago

[coral bear]

ooooh

[left ledge]

bro

no way

[coral bear]

i see the issue

[left ledge]

i just rekilled lura

as DS

with 800 haste

because i had the wrong rings on

[coral bear]

but im not gonna say it

[gilded thistle]

embarrass me

i dont care

[coral bear]

1 button rotation has longer GCD

jkjk

[gilded thistle]

VERY FUNNY

[left ledge]

still did 208k boss dps

wthelly

[gilded thistle]

1button so strong

[left ledge]

[coral bear]

lemme join yo guild were 500 pulls away from killing it

[gilded thistle]

bro I'm 500 from killing crown

[left ledge]

all g w/e

next week have to reparse anyways

because of this cringe 1% dps buff

[coral bear]

gloom

u got a video

?

of u doing it

[gilded thistle]

oh fyi I held a dance for one sectec so I'd have 2 charges on next blades

in case that was confusing

like why was that necessary

wtf

[left ledge]

no

i dont

i can stream it next week

[small sleet]

let me see if it was actually necessary

[gilded thistle]

it was, I had 0 charges left every time I popped them together

normally I have 1 in the bank every time I sectec+dance

[small sleet]

if you sent a shadow dance with your sectech at 1:04 ish

you woulda been fine

cuz shadow blades would come up at 1:32 or so, which means youd have 1 shadow dance charge, with 12s away from another one

and since you use second dance 12s into blades, you'd have it just in time

[gilded thistle]

hold on lemme watch the vid

[urban summit]

is deathstalker the move now?

for raid?

[small sleet]

for pure st it has been better, and the recent patch made it a little more so

only really good to learn if youre progging lura imo

[gilded thistle]

okay I think you're right when watching this back

but something felt really wrong

I'm so used to seeing a charge in the bank

[small sleet]

as long as you have like 1 1/2 charges of shadow dance you're good to start blades

you dont need a full 2 charges

[gilded thistle]

hm

[zenith flare]

I fuckinf hate the fact that the difference between an 85 parse and an 60 parse on rogue is like 5k dps

[gilded thistle]

even watching this back something looks wrong about it

but i cant fucking tell what it is now

[small sleet]

i think if you sent the shadow dance at 1:04, everything would look clean

[gilded thistle]

im gonna look at some other pulls and see what happened there

cuz this was consistently an issue all night

[zenith flare]

Who should i watch for rogue gameplay atm

Casual is playing dk and kush hasnt touched rogue

Imexile only has lura vod

[small sleet]

for raid or for keys?

[zenith flare]

Both

[small sleet]

for keys, i know zac streams a lot of outlaw keys, and i know nstab streams assa, though i dont know how regularly he streams. salatikue is a russian streamer who plays a lot of high sub keys

for raid, i personally just search up kill vids on youtube for my spec

[gilded thistle]

i like shindigg

hes always good to watch

streams keys and raid

[small sleet]

shindig is a good rogue content creator too yeah

[gilded thistle]

hes still workin on his key skills, but defs better than 99% of people anyways

was in MDI, just out early

[small sleet]

shindigg is a monster in keys, he'll pass people up pretty fast

[gilded thistle]

yeah I have a feeling once he gets some other specs down he'll crush in MDI next year

looking at some other pulls where I end up in the

situation

shit just went poorly for me

wasnt a bug

and I think that just had me second guessing myself by the time I got to vorasius

oh well

I experienced considerable skill issues tonight

[coral bear]

rainbow damage meter

[lilac stag]

shindigg the dk

[small sleet]

[astral axle]

am i dumb or is it more efficient to craft 2 rings and then upgradethe mythic rings you want. or is it equal. am i dumb

[short radish]

you cant equip two of teh same ring

[astral axle]

oh

[short radish]

need to craft the capybara ring

which is crit mast

[astral axle]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[short radish]

if youre also talking about crest save

then you spend 100 crests x2 (80+20)

well acutally 90x2 (80+10) if you have a main with max ring upgrade

so its not a crest save

[astral axle]

I see...

Math continues to be a struggle. So this adds up.

[short radish]

does it multiply up though?

[wet robin]

anyone else suicidal learning this new rotation on lura prog? lmao

im too old for this shit home dogs

[plush roost]

U can just play trickster

[wet robin]

i know, im 50/50 if i try again tomorrow night

will be nice to have the ST dam as we prog further, adds are dying fine

[plush roost]

Ye makes crystals better

But ds is way more fun

[wet robin]

yeah a lot more to do

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/old-lady-crazy-technology-confused-lost-gif-1005387838220071881

[plush roost]

Nah man it is, many decisions to make with apex dn superchargers and pooling

I like it 🙂

[wet robin]

itd almost be easier from scratch, than coming from trickster for my brain haha

so much holding

[lilac stag]

Whatever floats your boat. It’s dog shit.

better chance of convincing me outlaw is more enjoyable.

[small sleet]

Dk player opinion spotted

[plush roost]

Idk its like you dont have to force the pooling if u fall behind or have bad quietus procs

And u have 9 seconds of leeway between blades casts

So actively choosing when to evis again or pool is good gameplay to me

[wet robin]

i mean im just complaining haha, its the logic (hold at 1 mark, wait til 5+ stored cp, evis, sd ecis, sec tech)

just practice

ME BRAIN SMOOTH

[plush roost]

Me 2

My brain smoov

[lilac stag]

If this was earlier in the tier and dmg for sub was still shit I’d have been done. I genuinely do not enjoy the DS gameplay. While not amazing, Tricky at least vibes. Deathstalker needs to be taken out back.

[small sleet]

i feel like ds gameplay is pretty chill. it seems like everyone hates it but i dont really get why

[ripe flame]

Trauma from the past

[short radish]

^

after lura im probably gonn give it a shot (if i can get enough haste)

i just have traumatic memories of having to either let rupture fall off, or pressing rupture instead of DN

but rupture doesnt exist anymore

[plush roost]

Being able to move mark removed my only gripe with it tbh

[short radish]

so its probably not as bad

[plush roost]

What would u change, just the mark?

I like DN as a nuke button

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Turn DS into a proper funnel and not some mark juggling ST tunnel.

[plush roost]

Singular stores up damage and DN procs it

could be cool

i like DN idk

[lilac stag]

fun is of course an individual’s own pov. There’s just nothing fun about it to me. Just like slam can go away from arms.

[chrome palm]

This is kinda the problem with the hero spec overall

[lilac stag]

right now if DS wasn’t overtuned, I doubt anyone would call it fun

maybe I’m wrong

[chrome palm]

Problem is trickster is extremely boring

Ds is atleast something to do

[lilac stag]

trickster for me is just there. It’s a vibe. I’d love one more interaction (reworking goremaws).

[chrome palm]

What vibe? The spec is entirely passive

You don’t even hold coup

[hollow spear]

It's more of a trickster is a snoozefest, making the alternative feel better kinda vibe.

[chrome palm]

It’s not just that ds is fun or anything I prefer it personally but it is the ONLY meaningful gameplay that sub offers

[lilac stag]

it’s chill and I’m fine with that as a vibe. Rather that than some of the other forced setups.

[chrome palm]

Like the spec is just so totally barren that ds at least adds something

[hollow spear]

The long ass holding on ds is pretty cringe if you get quietus procs

[chrome palm]

There is something I can think about to play the spec correctly, and quietus I think makes it a lot more interesting in st

[hollow spear]

Idk, does it

[lilac stag]

it does not

It just forces cringe holds

[hollow spear]

I feel like you end up in a lot of lose lose scenarios, but maybe that's because I suck

[chrome palm]

Ok have fun pressing a limp Evis that does zero damage and then more limp stabs that do zero damage

[hollow spear]

Nah I play ds

[chrome palm]

No just saying like

That is the alternative to holding

For the people that dislike it

[hollow spear]

But that doesn't mean I accept it at face value

[lilac stag]

Of course it does. Let the outlaw man tell you how great DS is. /s

[hollow spear]

Eh, Messerknecht was our one true ds believer

[lilac stag]

I don’t mind firing off a weaker evisc or launching a few stabs.

[chrome palm]

I was playing ds week one for prog as soon as the 1.1k haste thing was found out

[lilac stag]

but it’s an outlaw tier.

[chrome palm]

It is now for sure

[hollow spear]

It never is

Lemme rephrase. It never is when it matters.

[chrome palm]

If you are genuinely pulling up as assa/sub every week to raid you might have an empty head. I did last week as sub and it is just terrible

[lilac stag]

I raid for maybe a total of 4 hours of actual pulls per week. Then I play something that isn’t rogue so I can have fun.

[hollow spear]

I cba making an outlaw gear set

[lilac stag]

the pacing of trickster sub scratches enough of an itch I’m ok with playing it. The other 5 rogue setups ain’t it for me. sits in 12.1 ptr waiting room

I can’t imagine people doing rogue in keys 5+ hours a day

[chrome palm]

If sub isn’t totally reworked in 12.1 it’s kinda over for it but I am pretty sure the only thing that gets touched is like deepening shadows and maybe 1 other talent no one cares about

[lilac stag]

I’ve already had the conversation, if there’s not raid utility do you want me to switch.

which is normally be like well that sucks

[chrome palm]

You do not need a rogue by any means in raid anymore

[lilac stag]

but I take it that they value me as a raider, and for all my vision issues that’s a w

[hollow spear]

We have two dk already so I cannot be op next season, most strong classes are at least double stacked.

Maybe I'll gamble on mage

[short radish]

i just like not pressing buttons

[lilac stag]

Best ball soaker

[lilac stag]

Without sounding like a doomer, bliz really needs to figure this class out. I don’t think they care though.

[chrome palm]

My old guild is looking for a rogue and they’ve been asking me for my opinion about certain people but I keep telling them if rogue isn’t reworked just don’t bring one

[hollow spear]

I actually wonder how many players we'd have if we weren't the strongest rogue spec rn. I wouldn't be surprised if more players liked the current iteration more than the previous and it's about the better and/or more long-term sub rogue players having a problem.

[chrome palm]

It’s just casuals playing it because most people just want the minimum effort maximum reward

[lilac stag]

It would drop as always.

[chrome palm]

In terms of like, the newfound popularity of sub

[lilac stag]

Outlaw would likely be meta in keys if we had any class utility

[tribal blade]

OR RAID BUFF

UwU

[lilac stag]

What do you think I mean by class utility

[hollow spear]

I liked tww sub, but if I look at the questions about even trickster rogue, I'm sure people's heads would have exploded if the had to play the tww version

[lilac stag]

We seem to trade one make your head explode concept for another each iteration.

[tribal blade]

that was generally the case during DF and TWW

partly why even when sub was a meta raid spec

like during amirdrassil

it was still quite low play rate

remember the people we would get in here haha

having complete meltdowns over the rotation

[lilac stag]

our haste interactions, on a gcd locked class, are fucking hysterical if you come from playing basically any other class.

We went from sim your self to use math and feels.

[tribal blade]

yeah the questions about the rotation got replaced by questions on haste

[lilac stag]

like unholy is about as brain dead as tricky sub, but the actual visuals keep it interesting

[astral axle]

hey guys i heard someone say that haste makes waste -- thoughts?

[hollow spear]

If you have 800 haste with guidon that statement is correct

[lilac stag]

I enjoy fdk a lot. For me It’s a nice combo of reaction and not over-capping charges.

Fury is still fury.

Arms needs to get rid of buttons.

[hollow spear]

If I change class I'll probably play ranged ngl

[lilac stag]

So UH

All the ranged. None of the ranged mechanics

[azure thicket]

dev evoker please :c

their rotation is bad but it's fixable

[hollow spear]

Too many dk already

[ember crane]

Hey recently switched main back to rogue (from shadow priest) and loving Sub. I recently obtained a heroic Gaze and voidforged to 285. My other two trinkets were both 298 Puzzle and 298 Emberwing (using a seq macro to cast between them). I assume the gaze is now the go to and can focus on using Puzzle with each shadowblade burst. Is that the play? Is double on use worth it at all?

[steel zinc]

If you play puzzle you use it every uneven blades so 3min trinket

And rest just Sim it