subtlety

[outer flare]

so we want from wanting mastery to crit back to mastery now haste, what a rollercoster

[cloud barn]

the 1100 haste you want to reach is + consumes right? and then guidon on top of that - it's not counting guidon activation?

[vale pine]

we only temporarely stacked crit, because of cloud cover

[outer flare]

ya

but it still

[vale pine]

was like a week

[outer flare]

was like a week or two

yha

[vale pine]

and even then, most did not care

deathstalker was/is slightly ahead of trickster, its just now a more noticable

(or well will be after the buff)

[jagged hamlet]

after 1100 haste is it crit > mastery, mastery > crit or crit = mastery?

[vale pine]

you just don't want vers

so whatever you have

[fast dome]

but I heard the all vers build is the new hotness

[shadow lance]

People here are like my users. Asking stuff that are in the manual

[hollow spear]

eh, for deathstalker you prioritze vers over crit

[brisk raptor]

any of y'all using crit flask for single target?

[hollow spear]

if you play trickster it probably doesnt matter

[vale pine]

probably, not on subtlety tho

[fast dome]

you do? wowheads guide has it dead last for st and m+

for both hero specs

[hollow spear]

in the end it's just

[fast dome]

not even sure if I can trust that anymore after the recent debacle with Alnseer and my poor Augvoker 🙁

😭

[hollow spear]

the only thing you cannot fully trust are the haste values

[odd quartz]

what is the strat for 2 target cleave fights .. i struggle so hard on it and im not fully sure what the optimal strat is

[shrewd lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[odd quartz]

are yall doing like what backstab for combo build and spending on black powder?

[shrewd lantern]

barely matters sub sucks at sustained 2t

thankfully theres not many instances of it

[spring basin]

I really don't think that is true lmao. I'm sure vers is a little more valuable, but I doubt DS is enough to make it better than crit

It's not like crits on non darkest night finishers are not worth it

[shrewd lantern]

you've got bosses like the last 2 of skyreach that have periodic 2nd target spawns

which you let sectech and coup cleave

[odd quartz]

that MC boss with bird just rips my overall LOL

[shrewd lantern]

Well yeah

sub is just bad at that

[odd quartz]

im trying to learn how to get anything out of it but struggling for sure

[spring basin]

It's almost like blizzard wanted to kill rogue sustained cleave, all three rogue specs suck at sustained low target cleave

[tribal vortex]

you build with shuriken

[shrewd lantern]

you still suck at 2t

regardless

and you still strike in dance to build

[odd quartz]

build shuriken on 2 target .. ill try that next time i was doing backstab build with 2 target on the high health one

[shrewd lantern]

no you're still going to be 3rd on dps

if your other 2 dps are awake

[spring basin]

Make sure you use strike in SD for 2t

[hollow spear]

dunno what to tell you, but even at 300 crit my top gear tells me it's a dps increase to change my gems from mastery/crit to mastery/vers

[fast dome]

just do what the blizzard APL says to do, they have to know best /s

[shrewd lantern]

this is what happens when they gut nimble

sub is just back to shit at 2-3t

I'd probably just play outlaw in MC

personally

[spring basin]

Jfc how do you have so little crit LMAO

[bleak night]

why are we playing outlaw in molten core

[fast dome]

I don't hate myself enough to run outlaw

[shrewd lantern]

sub rn is less interesting honestly

ss bp spam

[fast dome]

I feel this is fine. if you want tons of buttons and speed chaos outlaw is there for u

[shrewd lantern]

Though playing rogue in keys is kind of int

in general

[fast dome]

we should have 3 levels of playstyle in a pure dps class

[shrewd lantern]

dk is just better

at everything

[fast dome]

eh I have no issues in 10-15s. I dont bother going above that cuz why

[shrewd lantern]

well people in 15s are

kind of slow in the head

[fast dome]

I dont get anything for it, so dont bother.

[shrewd lantern]

[spring basin]

That reminds me, apparently when a sub rogue is in a m+ group with a demo lock, a demo talent starts pulling random mobs across the room for some reason

According to the warlock discord

[shrewd lantern]

if i hated myself i'd play aug

[spring basin]

Funny game

[shrewd lantern]

and get carried

[fast dome]

I do this. Well, as offspec. MS is Preservation

cuz I hate myself 😄

[torn scarab]

Is there actually a trinket from M+ that'll beat out an LFR Gaze (besides puzzlebox)?

(for m+)

[alpine wraith]

skyreach prism should be better

[torn scarab]

well howdy, that's where I'm at rn

lol

[fossil forge]

ive reached the point where my alt rogue does more damage than my main

it might be time to put the fries in the bag and drop sub for m+

[tribal blade]

LIKE THIS YES

hahaaa nice

[dreamy needle]

is this an addon

[lilac stag]

Or the delve crit trinket

[still depot]

for m+ in aoe, when you have coup ready but like probably 6 seconds off from SD tech. is it a hold angle?

[tribal blade]

can either hold or send

but i would say just send

[frank drift]

talent for raid is ST image ???

!t

[lilac stag]

[alpine wraith]

depends look if flawless is expiring in those 6 secs

if it has like 4 secs left send to refresh

before sec tech

[dire jolt]

How badly does it go if you tricks healer Valeera in ??

[alpine wraith]

she dies kinda fast after the fix

but some peole did it

[dire jolt]

Bleh, so not any better than tanking yourself

I wanted free myth crests

[tribal blade]

you will be fine with dance dropping aggro

esp with how much gear we have now

[dire jolt]

Well I won't have that gear haha. Gonna be 245 after I craft a cloak

[random mason]

On a healer you can supposedly do it as soon as u hit max level

With valeera on dps

[dire jolt]

Yeah if they afk most of the fight

Boring 12-13 minutes but easy

[swift tinsel]

ye I did it as a 196 holy paladin its a total joke

just set her as dps and its cake, unless you're mistweaver then you aggro immediately lol

[dire jolt]

Nah, I just only cast heals

Can't ancient teachings

[swift tinsel]

she was buggy for me though as dps when I was mw and was doing like 4-5k dps

so it took quite literally forever

[half comet]

what would you replace for TFD

in st

[dusky yacht]

17 Maisara, man I'm having a pretty good time playing sub rn

I even died on last boss

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusky yacht]

17 MT

[plucky moon]

That mt dam was same as mine also in that same key yesterday

Duno Is that good dmg for us in 17 tho

I see ppl do some crazy numbers on 21, 22 but duno Can we compare dmg from 17 and 20+ 😂

[random mason]

That poor dh

[random mason]

Not really, you cant even compare two runs of the same dungeon and key level on just dmg numbers

[cobalt tundra]

Is that details, looks so clean

[plucky moon]

Ye but i do rly good dmg in this Keys and when i pop some stream and see ppl finish 300k+ i fell like im npc lol

Duno why 😂

[mild matrix]

Any secret tips? 👀

[random mason]

Different comp, so different raid buffs and dmg profiles, different player skill of ypur party member, different timings on pulls which means different times you use your CDs, different route and so on

[random mason]

I mean if you wanna learn things you can go look at high key logs or watch runs, there's still a lot of things in your control that could have room for improvement

But at a certain point it's getting lucky with pugs or just having a group to push with

[lime vortex]

Do we play guidon on top of the 1100 haste when going for ds ?

[plucky moon]

I didnt push anything From start but now ive got giga gear and just started like 2 days ago. Atm Is going rly nice ngl

[random mason]

Yeah i had all 10s in first week i think and got 3.4k last week

Sub has a pretty low mental load in m+ imo so it's easier to do well consistently

In raid too tbh

[small sleet]

Anyone finishing 300k+ in that dungeon is playing with an Aug most likely, which sub doesn’t normally play with. 300k without an Aug is not possible

[plucky moon]

Yeah thats true, my question Is does sub have what it takes to do rly high Keys like 20, 21 and if God permits some 22

[small sleet]

I have done 22 mt and mc as sub

[swift tinsel]

yes

[plucky moon]

Cuz everyone Is playing outlaw and sin atm

I mean most of the ppl

[small sleet]

All 3 rogue specs are good rn

[random mason]

Are you mostly pugging btw?

[small sleet]

Not really, at this key level you kinda have to know people

[plucky moon]

Sick broo. What trinkets you play in m+ and what are your stats if i may Ask?

[bleak nexus]

I'm ready

[small sleet]

Guidon and gaze, 700 haste, 1kish mastery and the rest crit

[lime vortex]

Still no gaze tho, i'm playing solarflame prisme

Just getting hero gaze would be a +8k dps on sim

[plucky moon]

Rly nice. Im on same stats and trinkets so im all set i gues

290.81 ilvl, i humanly cant go more than this 😂

[subtle aspen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusky yacht]

EllesmereUI dps meters

[drifting ether]

Sheesh mans on fire

[dusky yacht]

Try and push all the buttons

[dusky yacht]

Yeah he's an alt of a guildie but it's good fun tho

[jade oasis]

how do i do dmg on paladins

[peak ice]

Spam black powder

[dusky yacht]

Reroll

[quick sable]

Does the tricks of the trade means for 30 minutes I don't need torecast it to the tank?"

[dusky yacht]

It's 1hr, but yes, it lasts for that long unless you die

[quick sable]

then what's the point of that 30 second thing then? ahha

[dusky yacht]

To activate it

You have to cast it, then within 30 sec damage mobs

You can use it on the countdown when dungeon starts

In almost all cases this is fine

[quick sable]

ive been spamming it every 30 sec :p

[dusky yacht]

Windrunner might be a bit weird but then just wait a bit

[quick sable]

so you mean to say i dont have to do that (spamming every 30 sec) moving forward on M+ for instance

[dusky yacht]

Just cast it within 30 sec before pull and hit any enemy with anything

Then for the next hour or until you die, it will give all threat to the tank

Remember to recast after death though this shit kills me sometimes

Or pops cheat death

Feels stupid when I don't remember

[quick sable]

if cheat death happens it cleanses it?

good to know

[dusky yacht]

No no

After I die

I run back to the pack and then sometimes what will happen is I won't have tricks up anymore and have forgotten to recast it

And the very next pull I kill myself

[quick sable]

haha ah

[dusky yacht]

Or proc cheat death

[quick sable]

ty

[dusky yacht]

Np

[dire jolt]

I wish farming champ crests on a fresh char didn't suck

[lilac stag]

Ritual sites and run normal raid. You’ll have more than you need

[dire jolt]

eww, normal raid

[subtle aspen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[runic sinew]

with this buffs, are we playing DS even in cleave fights?

[dusky yacht]

[dire jolt]

so dps wise I don't think ?? is gonna feel hard, the big issue is bursting the adds phases down and more HP to live lol.

Is there a mod ping?

Whispyr busy with LoL

[warm marlin]

@teal coral im sure monster guy is around

[peak ice]

What is this Andrew Tate scam thijng

[modern sentinel]

damn,free money. Im gonna do it also

[dire jolt]

Getting pinged while carrying bot lane AP must suck.

[keen dome]

Damn, they've shifted from it being Mr. Beast to Tate? that's funny

[peak ice]

100% a scam

[teal coral]

arenas

[shadow snow]

Fak this 1100 haste thing, i have to craft engineering and get the ring from march, aint no way i am gonna play that

[keen dome]

Do you really need to play it, though?

[main rivet]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[shadow snow]

Its 6% more dps in st

[keen dome]

Yeah, but do you actually need that for all the trouble it's worth?

[shadow snow]

Well tonight i will kill paladins and next week i am gonna prog aleria

I still see people go trickster on those fights but data could be outdated, next week maybe someone tries to do those bosses with ds ?

I dunno all these talent changes are confusing me

[tribal blade]

they very significantly nerfed health on alleria

for both the adds and boss

so it's not a real dps check anymore

just mechanics check mostly, same as beloren

[shadow snow]

yeah i know, we have so much gear nothing is dps check, but i want to parse, otherwise i might lose my spot

[tribal blade]

i suspect a lot of people are staying trickster

for either comfort or the inability to hit 1100 haste

but who knows

[shadow snow]

thats my worry, who knows...

[tribal blade]

this has happened a LOT of times where DS gets buffed and people won't swap

[wet atlas]

Been thinking about swapping from Sub to Outlaw tbh.
Feels like in higher keys you mostly see Outlaw rogues anyway, and we’re slowly getting into that range too.
Just kinda scared of having to completely regear/change stats since the stat prio is so different... what do you think?

[keen dome]

Sooner you start getting another gear set, the sooner it's done. Could just do it slowly and via crafts initialy?

But you should play what you enjoy the most first and foremost imo

[wet atlas]

yeah I do prefer sub over outlaw tbh

outlaw feels like a warrior 😄

[small sleet]

i mean sub works in high keys

if you prefer playing sub there's no reason to swap

[wet atlas]

Yeah but I rarely see Sub up there anymore… been getting some weird comments lately for playing it 😅
We timed the key anyway, and honestly I don’t really care about people complaining as long as my performance is good.

[warm marlin]

they are all mega similar in terms of performance

there are just some very dedicated outlaw otps who push very high keys every season

even when its bad

and then people are perma asking if outlaw is the best spec

[wet atlas]

Yeah...

[tribal blade]

just stay sub

[tribal blade]

yeah people are dumb like that

don't listen to them

unless it's the diff between like TWW frost mage or arcane where there's an enormous difference in the dmg profile

it doesn't matter

[bronze hatch]

nobody cares about deathstalker buffs rite

we still tricksy

[dreamy wedge]

Good morning. I am thinking of replacing my belt and using engineering wrist - what embellishment I should put on it?

[tribal blade]

you can't put standard embels on eng items

only eng specific stuff

go to the person to order crafts and test it out

[keen dome]

they're all bad, imo

but it's not like it matters 'cos embels are so minor

[dreamy wedge]

hmm if embels are so minor why do I use crafted gear at all? I thoght it's a big deal

[tribal blade]

yeah i don't think they're any good

[tribal blade]

well it's free dmg

[keen dome]

Because you control the stats and it's free damage you gain from them

[serene tapir]

And yet u ask about Outlaw 😉 But are u pushing 24s? U can time high keys as sub 👌

[tribal blade]

and not minor enough to not warrant having them

[keen dome]

Eeeh.

I think you could run without them and full 289 gear and it'd be minimal

[vagrant fossil]

FAQ updated. Deathstalker kinda cracked in pure ST now compared to Trickster

[tribal blade]

agreed i saw someone's sim once

it's pretty small

[dreamy wedge]

Thanks, I will go play with the simbot a bit and test it

[keen dome]

Yee

Crafting is really good for filling slots but if you have an actual 289 alternative it's gonna be (marginally) better

And then the two embel slots are bonuses on top of that, imo. But we always put them in weaker slots anyway (Belt/bracer)

@tribal blade should I pug heroic lura today

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

if you really want to kill it make everyone get in disc

[keen dome]

assuming I can get into any groups with zero prog for like 3 months lmao

[tribal blade]

and do memory game calls

[keen dome]

Nah, I'm allergic to voice chat in pugs

[tribal blade]

lol fair enough

[keen dome]

BAD experiences

not as bad as destiny 2, but bad

[tribal blade]

back when i was still pugging stuff in SL pugs would require you to join voice for sylv

because of how complicated that fight was

[keen dome]

Yeah, I can imagine

Hm, maybe 8am on a Sunday morning isn't prime pug time.

Wait that's set to mythic. I'M THE FOOL.

[tribal blade]

i dunno how pugs are doing lura w/o voice

[keen dome]

lmao

[tribal blade]

i assume they require addons to be set up

[keen dome]

Yeah, northern sky or pugra

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/puga-helper

[tribal blade]

or you just have to do it

[keen dome]

Which is a stellar addon name

[tribal blade]

i would say go for it

or make your own group

[keen dome]

god no I've gained enough grey hairs this season already

[tribal blade]

haha

[keen dome]

the fight looks very chill on heroic anyway if people do dam. Just the memory game, soak beams in P2, don't take cosmic damage if you are babysitting, and also soak stuff in P3/crystals

P1 doesn't have a hard HP% phase swap, right? I imagine with the DPS people have right now you'd be able to skip P3 entirely

[tribal blade]

there's a bunch of ways for people to fuck up

mainly memory game P1

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

then putting the beams in the correct place in P2

that's a big one tbh

[keen dome]

I lead normal clears and it was hard and annoying enough with 3 symbols

[tribal blade]

if you know what you're doing in P2 it's easy

if you have people who don't

it's a nightmare

[keen dome]

the memory game is the thing I just hate and I think is a terrible mechanic to include

[tribal blade]

uhhhh honestly not sure, i don't think so

[keen dome]

neat

[tribal blade]

should be phasing on time

because i always cd int 1 at the same time

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

and yeah you can skip P3 entirely if you push boss fast enough in P2, but that won't happen in a pug prob

[keen dome]

Probably not, no.

Maybe if they hero in P2

although if there's no HP% shift then I wonder if pug's heroing in P1 is best

[tribal blade]

P3 is not super complicated anyways i think

[keen dome]

nah, on heroic it';s identical to normal but with the soaks

[tribal blade]

the main issue comes from crystals usually

[modern sentinel]

I have only killed it once on hc,cba to do again

[keen dome]

If it wasn't for the P1 memory mechanic I wouldn't feel so "meh" about it

it just feels insufferable to me, esp as I am Dyslexic and that shit is really aggrivating

[weak glade]

You do big damage on that boss tho

If you ignore EVERYTHING else

It’s great

[keen dome]

hell yeah

Maybe I wait until 12.0.7 and kill it then

just keep putting it off

I do think this is funny

[modern sentinel]

Gonna ass blast the boss with all the gear

[keen dome]

Even Ansurek I had like, 10+ kills by the end of the season lol

[weak glade]

Honestly tho the fight is easy as fuck

[tribal blade]

the main issue i have is with the diamond/triangle icons

[weak glade]

The easiest AOTC in a long time

[tribal blade]

and the fucking triangle icon looks like a diamond to me

[modern sentinel]

Ye

[keen dome]

I don't disagree, it does look very easy. I just hate the memory game design with intense passion

[modern sentinel]

The icons are dookie

[keen dome]

It's a lot of moving parts on five random people without the right length of time to resolve it imo

[tribal blade]

THIS IS A DIAMOND

LITERALLY THE "TRIANGLE" SHAPE

yeah that fucks me up so bad lol

[keen dome]

Assuming my casual heroic guild ever kills Baloren, I dunno if they'll ever kill Lura due to the memory game

[tribal blade]

if they are struggling on heroic beloren

i dunno if they'll ever kill heroic lura tbh

lura is way more mechanically intense than beloren on heroic

[keen dome]

Yep

[tribal blade]

heroic beloren is kind of a joke

[keen dome]

At least they're doing Baloren the 'properly' way and not doing the zerg tactic as someone suggested.. With most people doing 5 - 25 parse range.

And yeah, I consider Balo the easiest fight this tier on Heroic. It's insanely easy.

[modern sentinel]

Hc bird is loot pinata

[keen dome]

Pugs found the way to make it hard

Getting the egg to 20%. Boss respawns. "WIPE IT" with the whole raid alive.

Just kill the boss!! do the fight!!!!

Are there any other fights this season that pugs have found a way to make harder, hm.

[dreamy wedge]

The sim is slightly scuffed (for example it have crit flask because I didn't realize it's the default) but for dungeon slice it seems it wants 2 crafted items over two 289 items
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8kg5cuZXQzGNnXK2C8pBoD

[keen dome]

Like a 0.2% dif, right?

[dreamy wedge]

isn't that 2%?

ho nvm that's probaably just the puzzle box

[keen dome]

Yeah, there's a 1.5% gain with just the trinkets. Then 1.8% with the top config.

So it's around 0.2 - 0.4% dif I guess. Which to me is like, whatever range. Extreeemely minor and you can basically just go with what you personally prefer

[dreamy wedge]

Ye I agree. and I probably squeeze less then that when I play then what the bot sims

[keen dome]

Yeah

[fallow thorn]

What am I doing wrong? Keys feel good but parses are scuffed af https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q6QcLGJR79gYtdzb?fight=6&type=damage-done

[peak ice]

Sample size for key % probably weird due to the number of rogues

[fallow thorn]

So because there are a few parses, mostly with augs all the other parsea are lower? First time really looking into logs and trying to improve like this

[peak ice]

Left is all parses on all keys

Right is all parses on 19 seat

So like paladins there’s quite a few so say 1000 have gone through keys and you’re 80% parse, you’re better than 800/1000

there’s probably like 16 rogues that have done it

So the like grading curve is all fucked

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[peak ice]

Ello

[keen dome]

it's too hot to be a good morning.

[zenith hollow]

anyone have a weakaura or any cdm that would play a sound at 8 seconds left on shadowblades trying to offload some mental during lura

[tribal blade]

am i high he has a 34%

[peak ice]

Was an example

[tribal blade]

but sub has WAY less parses

[peak ice]

Ye

[tribal blade]

parsing is always wonky when you have so few people playing it

i remember when the arms in my guild was progging as arms at the start of the season when it was a dead spec

he got like a rank 2 but it wasn't even a 99%

something lower because of how few arms parses there were

just to show how funny the numbers are, there are 871% more ret parses than sub for 19 seat

[peak ice]

This probably isn’t helping the parse though

[dreamy wedge]

looks like an ho fuck moment

maybe he died there?

[peak ice]

Yeah

[somber sun]

if you are fine with visual indicators

use AyijeCDM and configure it to have SB buff that shows on your screen and disappear at the 8 sec mark

ohh wait nvm

1 sec

@zenith hollow

put whatever you want in " on hide " section as sound indicator

[tribal blade]

damn that's tough

[peak ice]

Do you bind blades and guidon

[tribal blade]

nah

because you're waiting 1 sec between guidon and dance+sectec

so if you do that

[peak ice]

Yea I thought that was the case

[tribal blade]

you make it far more likely you cannot fit 2nd sectec into dance during blades

[peak ice]

I’ve got blades bound with dance sec

[tribal blade]

better to have blades+dance+sectec

[peak ice]

And guidon by itself

Yep

Can you bind pot with guidon

Or do you want it to go off after

[tribal blade]

you can yeah, maybe not if you're using the stat one

but light's you can

prob better to just bind it to blades though

because you're sitting afk during guidon

[peak ice]

Right sick, I haven’t bound it because I wasn’t sure

But I also don’t want to pot every blades

[tribal blade]

i have it bound to blades in my general setups

and then for specific bosses i have seperate templates

with pot not bound

[dreamy wedge]

Don't you keep pots of bosses/huge pulls on m+?

for

[peak ice]

I feel like I end up potting at random times if it’s bound

[tribal blade]

you do yeah

[peak ice]

Yea I will pot on the first big pull

And then bosses

[tribal blade]

i'm not currently title pushing so it doesn't matter for me to have it bound

if i was pushing i would for sure not have it bound

[vale pine]

big pulls and bosses

also rank 1 pot is fine if you don't push super high

[tribal blade]

i can play sub optimal because i'm a filthy casual in keys now 🙂

[peak ice]

5min cd kinda harsh tbh

[tribal blade]

the price diff between r1 and 2 is CRAZY

[peak ice]

In too cheap for the high quality pot that’s not an issue

[vale pine]

i am only using rank 1 for keys ^^

[somber sun]

yeah just craft yours atp

[tribal blade]

that's fair yeah

[vale pine]

we don't do super high ones tho

[tribal blade]

i started using R2 because i'm a meter monkey lol

i like big numbers

[vale pine]

so more in the 15-17 range

unsure if we will even push 18

people seem to have lost motivation for the season

with the crest uncap

[tribal blade]

18s are pretty chill still

it was definitely the first big step in keys i felt

going from 17>18

[peak ice]

Idk

[tribal blade]

but still chill

[peak ice]

I’m feeling it at 17 atm

[vale pine]

keep in mind

we don't play optimal comp

but "whatever we have"

so might not have bl

[peak ice]

1/2 the keys are full of terrible players

[vale pine]

and need to use drums

[tribal blade]

it's different for me though, i have a long history of key pushing

[peak ice]

It’s not the difficulty it’s the like

[modern sentinel]

I wouldnt call 18s chill lol,thats like top 1%

[peak ice]

The key insta bricks with pubs

[vale pine]

^

[tribal blade]

honestly not a huge deal for sub which is nice

[vale pine]

i mean

i think most who post here and say its easy

haven't done keys with very bad comps

[tribal blade]

#subtlety message

i'm used to doing title range keys

[keen dome]

or me

[tribal blade]

so 1% keys feel like kindergarten

[keen dome]

[vale pine]

if you play with exceptional players

and the right comp

[modern sentinel]

fuckin gaming

[vale pine]

19s are "easy"

but if you play with average players and "whatever is online"

its very diffrent

there is a reason almost all higher keys have druid or monk tanks

we most of the time play with paladin tank ^^

[tribal blade]

but you're right, i'm viewing it from my lens

[modern sentinel]

also healers will say some keys are like satanic starting at like 16-18 already

[tribal blade]

for the majority of players 18s are tough

you're right

[vale pine]

paladin or evoker healer often

which also isn't that competitive to meta

not having the strong raid buffs is similar

[tribal blade]

yeah at this key range you're gonna get a lot of the super off meta specs

[vale pine]

when we do keys, you notice a HUGE diffrence when our comp is more meta heavy or good

[tribal blade]

rsham is not quite meta, but it's top tier

[tribal blade]

if i run keys in a caster comp my dps is pretty bad

well worse than it could be

by quite a bit

[dreamy wedge]

I am doing 18's and just did a 19, and all my best runs were totally off metaa

[vale pine]

👍

[peak ice]

Evoker healer seems to struggle?

[vale pine]

my point is simply, playing meta makes keys easier. Having less organized (guild) groups makes 18/19 already hard

[peak ice]

Oh yea no doubt

[vale pine]

evoker and paladin healer struggle

[modern sentinel]

logical

[vale pine]

thats also a problem for us

tanks also struggle, this could ofc be a skill issue

[dreamy wedge]

I don't have the understand to ever tell, if tank dies becaause healer or because of himself

[vale pine]

our guild isn't top world rank, but more "casual" (means as in low raid hours and no exteme skill or grind requirements)

[modern sentinel]

the 1 seat pull is good tester

[vale pine]

you mean first pull of the dungeon?

[dreamy wedge]

I think it's an healer test not a tank test

[vale pine]

the tanks we played with can't do the "big" first pull

[modern sentinel]

so much dmg in that hellhole I feel

[vale pine]

always die

[vale pine]

it's both

[dreamy wedge]

isn't the problem there the chains?

[tribal blade]

not just the chains, those mobs also put out a leech debuff that trucks

and heals the mobs

but you can cloak/vanish/meld it off

[modern sentinel]

I cant imagine seat at like 20, must be real shit time

[vale pine]

evoker is also from how i understand it very bad at healing damage spikes

[dreamy wedge]

fuck, I should have been using wound poison there all this time? I should really make a list.

[tribal blade]

i think evoker requires a lot of preplanning with how they heal from what i hear

with stasis

n shit

[vale pine]

its a skill based spec for sure

even if its core is easy

[tribal blade]

ngl you can slap it on in every dungeon

and it'll barely affect your overall

[vale pine]

thats kinda true

[tribal blade]

it is yeah

[dreamy wedge]

I don't care about the poison I care about the talent point

[vale pine]

instant poison does not do that insane amount of damage

[tribal blade]

my guild's rsham swapped to pres for midnight because she HATES how simple rsham got

and pres requires thinking to heal

[vale pine]

holy paladin got mindlessly simple

[modern sentinel]

How is seat on really high keys actually? Is it really miserable?

[tribal blade]

you can just use baseline wound poison

[tribal blade]

i haven't done any high seats so i'm not 100% sure

but yes the dmg going out in there

is on average more than other dungeons

it's very easy to die in there

[dreamy wedge]

I think as melee player seat is very nice to play. just nightmare for healers.

[modern sentinel]

gotta have some cia agents for healers in seat ig

[tribal blade]

seat is in particular quite hard for healers yeah

[hollow spear]

Seat feels fast for weekly keys tho

[tribal blade]

timer is pretty free though yeah

[modern sentinel]

not looking forward to some of the s2 dungeons

[tribal blade]

makes sense

[modern sentinel]

is that timer list?

[vale pine]

wait

is druid this bad now?

i thought druid was better

[tribal blade]

it got nerfed

thing is MW was already looking to be better even without rdruid getting nerfed

[vale pine]

ohh, the classic

[tribal blade]

so rdruid nerfed>MW already very very good>bear becomes meta tank

so the entire thing shifts

[vale pine]

monk is rly good this season

in general

[tribal blade]

yeah either brew or MW is solid

[dreamy wedge]

I don't see many WW. they seem kinda squishy.

[vale pine]

its kinda funny

how all top r.io switched to druid

after it was nerfed

[tribal blade]

it'll be very hard for WW to get anywhere with brew and MW being very good

double stacking raid buffs not great

[dreamy wedge]

tbf I see many runs hving double monk

at 17-18

[modern sentinel]

WW aint bad

[tribal blade]

yeah at that level

but go higher

[modern sentinel]

might die abit

[tribal blade]

much higher

[dreamy wedge]

will take me few weeks 😛

[vagrant fulcrum]

I think the issue is that WW isn't outstanding like the other two specs

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure not bad, but it's just tough when the other 2 specs are either meta or A tier

[modern sentinel]

it is what it is momento

[peak ice]

Academy feels bad idk

[serene tapir]

Why?

[tribal blade]

it's the hardest key of the season

[serene tapir]

Ye but stil fun imo

”Fun” xD

[tribal blade]

hehe yeah it's fun until you add enough key level

[somber sun]

skyreach

[serene tapir]

Ye i am casual at 19s so prolly wont feel it 🫣

[tribal blade]

i really don't like skyreach

[carmine portal]

Skyreach visuals: great
Skyreach gameplay: poo

Fun as evoker bcus I can perma save people from mechanics but other than that

[peak ice]

academy just unforgiving with timer

skyreach you can just get booped and theres like 0 counter

i think npx and pit are my faves atm

[tribal blade]

yeah any time there's a dungeon where you're gated by RP

[modern sentinel]

I like pit and nexus also

[tribal blade]

those become hella tight sometimes

[peak ice]

bruh the seat rp

can fuck off

[modern sentinel]

skyreach aint bad,done it a lot so prolly why

[tribal blade]

the worst ever was probably rise in DF

taht place SUCKED

[carmine portal]

NPX is the opposite, fun bosses but bland visuals

[peak ice]

the seat rp at the end where its like

u got 5min left

[carmine portal]

Everything is simply one of many shades of purple

[peak ice]

and theyre like

lets real slow open this door

[tribal blade]

the RP before last boss in seat is kinda good in some ways

because it allows you to zone out and respec ST

[carmine portal]

lol

[peak ice]

lol true

tbh i never do that

[tribal blade]

i did it for last boss of rookery

rookery was fucking crazy at title range

and last boss was tough

[peak ice]

do you have to run back through

[modern sentinel]

ptsd

[tribal blade]

for rookery not all the way, but quite a bit

but it was worth

[peak ice]

but for seat

[tribal blade]

because getting less phases on last boss

[peak ice]

u do right

[tribal blade]

was a huge time save

[tribal blade]

oh no seat it puts you back at the last boss

[shadow snow]

This season dungeons are really fun and intuitive i think. I fear next season is not gonna be like that.

Murder Row and Den of Nalorak seem like they will be alot of trouble

[peak ice]

The plant one

The one with the trex thing

[modern sentinel]

oh god

[peak ice]

Guaranteed that sucks

[tribal blade]

i think den is the worst dungeon blizz has designed in years

that place looks like complete ass

and feels like complete ass to do

[peak ice]

I don’t like the ice with the bears

[tribal blade]

first area is also like brackenhide

which gives me PTSD

[tribal blade]

yeah not a fan of gauntlets either lol

[dreamy wedge]

You really spec ST for anything now? that one point? 😛

[modern sentinel]

brackenhide was scary,but had nice gear so I did it abit

[keen dome]

@tribal blade Joined a L'ura pug. Lead is silent. People ask if we're using an addon. Silence. More silence. SOmeone asks a second time. BAM PULL TIMER. lmao

[peak ice]

Bail

[modern sentinel]

I cant imagine puggin that boss

[keen dome]

I fucked the first dirge. Then we did a second pull and someone fucked the second dirge and I left 'cos I was the only person doing higher than 100k DPS. with hero on pull.

[carmine portal]

"just do mechanics"

On Myth lura??

[tribal blade]

hahaaaa

[keen dome]

Heroic

[carmine portal]

AH right

[keen dome]

Mythic L'ura is, I HOPE!!! not puggable

god could you imagine if it was

[tribal blade]

damn pugging mythic lura would be fucking crazy

that would mean you did mythic beloren

which is equally crazy

[keen dome]

I think myth birb is gonna be puggable soon

[carmine portal]

think I do more than 100k with hero as afflic in AOE spec on ST

[keen dome]

Yeah

I mean I spike to like 350k or something

[modern sentinel]

I have pugged dream and up to saladbar

[tribal blade]

maybe, but thing is it's a LOT of coordination

[carmine portal]

Can't do anywhere close on ST with afflic

[keen dome]

Ye, I've pugged Chimmy and Impoerator + Vora

Super chill

[tribal blade]

it's incredibly easy to wipe on bird

everything 1 shots

[keen dome]

Saladbar is def doable but effort and no real gain

Dwagons is also puggable but not by Typical Pugs.

[modern sentinel]

german guild got me in, and we killed shit and went to bed after

[keen dome]

nice

[carmine portal]

#beastmode

[keen dome]

L'ura def feels insanely easy if the mechanics are done.

[carmine portal]

Isn't that by definiton all bosses tho

[keen dome]

But I guess that's a pretty pointless statement

Yeah, haha

[tribal blade]

lura is not hard if you're coordinated

[carmine portal]

hjaha

[keen dome]

I was thinking that after i hit enter

"wait that's every fight"

[tribal blade]

lura is more black and white

[carmine portal]

"It's actually so easy if you get it to 0% hp"

[tribal blade]

than most bosses

[keen dome]

But you know what I mean. mechanically it's not a complex boss 'cos it has two hard mechanics

and then everything else is whatever

[carmine portal]

Yeahn ofc

[tribal blade]

i can imagine lura is an absolute nightmare if you're not coordinated

[keen dome]

It's like how Myth Chim is extremely easy if you can do the kicks 'cos not much else is hard

[carmine portal]

It's hard in two ways: Being coordinated is step 1

STAYING coordinated is step 2

[keen dome]

Yeah

[modern sentinel]

or have fuckton of dks

[keen dome]

I'm sorry to report the fuckton of DK's have all gripped the same mob

[modern sentinel]

[keen dome]

3 fears went off, the same mob just pingponging around (ignore how they can't do this 'cos of the realms)

[modern sentinel]

had like 4-5 dks on kill

[minor osprey]

on DS should i send a second sectec in blades

[keen dome]

I think my first pug kill had 4

2 per group, so the adds were a non-issue in theory

But this was before 12.0.5

[modern sentinel]

I cant remember,I was wasted. Dont look at logs

[keen dome]

Haha

[modern sentinel]

then I got gaze on bonus

[keen dome]

Winning

[modern sentinel]

German beer and german guild,it was meant to be

[carmine portal]

Haven't touched M+ since vodiforge was activated oops

[keen dome]

48? pulls for me which I think is pretty good for pugging it on the 3rd week

[carmine portal]

League of legends addict strikes again

[golden coral]

Hi in deathstalker build you want no crit right ?

[dreamy wedge]

I never heard about that. what makes you think that?

[golden coral]

Because we are criting with the hero talent ? i mean not 0 but it's like 1100 hast mast then crit

[tribal blade]

a big portion of DS's dmg is guaranteed crits from huge DN evis

so crit loses value from that

if you factor how much of that evis dmg came from DN

on all that dmg crit was completely worthless

[vale pine]

crit is still fine tho

its not completely useless

[tribal blade]

true not completely useless

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

e.g. the profile still has some crit

ofc its more mastery and haste

[keen dome]

crit is just a 50/50

you either do, or you don't.

[hazy breach]

Fwiw DS also has the universal crit damage talent

Which makes crit quite a lot better, on anything that isn't dn

[bitter halo]

Can anyone recommend an effective interrupt addon for tracking kicks and alerts?

[tribal blade]

oh shit true

i completely forgot about that talent

and it's the "good" crit dmg

[hazy breach]

Its not

[tribal blade]

oh damn

[tribal blade]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/naowhqol

you can track your focus kick with this addon

has visual and audio alerts

[bitter halo]

Tyvm

[short delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[golden totem]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / [AvijeCDM](<https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/ayijecdm) - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[golden totem]

Yo guys, i want to replace Cooldown Manager Centered that i'm using coupled with sensei since midnight release, I pretty much want the same look i just want to be able to track some extra buffs in the CDM, like bloodlust, trinket buff, trinket cd, etc that CMC don't do, any suggestion ?

[wispy crystal]

is deathstalker the play next reset after hotfix?

[wild sapphire]

Guys, sorry for the noob question but i just got to 90.
Im checking logs and povs and i see alot of people on m+ going with full combo points INTO dance, thecnique, then storn instead of black powder? Even tho they have full CP?

[golden totem]

not a noob question btw

#subtlety-faq

you wanna boost ur finisher if its supercharged

as trickster

[wild sapphire]

Ohhhh! I think i need a new CDM to track that 😂

[golden totem]

blizzard does it if you want with thse 2 black bars

else you can also track this in the cdm

[strong mulch]

Hey guys, anyone theorycrafting the upcomming rogue changes?

[golden totem]

if you don't see the black bars you can change in hte blizzard settings this :

[golden totem]

pins should answer u

[strong mulch]

Thanks

another question 😄

for how long do you hold Shadow dance to wait for Secret techic?

i 'm holding it for 5sec if ST is comming up

dk if it's right or not

[golden totem]

You pretty much always wanna hold dance to press it coupled with sectec

but you should not cap on dance charges if you play it right

unless you're waiting for blades too, can happen

[strong mulch]

ok i see

[golden totem]

you can delay up to 10sec to wait for blade cd

[strong mulch]

And.. when you go into SD with ST up do you try to proc appex or send ST straight away?

[golden totem]

nah you don't want to apex sectec, doesn't work well together

[wild sapphire]

How do i get that showing?

[golden totem]

#subtlety message

[wild sapphire]

So, in dance inallways want to get Supercharger before black powder?

What about ST?

[golden totem]

huh

[wild sapphire]

Nvm, Im confused as shir

[golden totem]

the usual sequence is :
Dance + sectec - Storm - If you don't have apex proc you storm again - black powder

but if you pool some sht stacks before dancing you should proc apex automatically and not even have to play around it

same for singletarget

doesnt change the logic

[wild sapphire]

I see! Need to pit time on it!
In the fac it says 1% dps increase?

[tribal blade]

roughly yeah, you can still do very good dmg without doing it

[hollow spear]

Nothing to focus on early on

Once you've got a feel for the spec, it more or less comes naturally

[earnest crane]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glacial cloak]

how much better is a 285 gaze compared to a 298 solarflare?

[earnest crane]

wow Chaos brand is 1.6% buff

[vale pine]

gaze is quite a bit better

[tepid trellis]

got the last crests from raid, now we can full afk

[vale pine]

nicu

[vale pine]

one of the trinkets of 12.0.7 at least looks like a good stat stick

🙈

[peak ice]

the spore one?

[vale pine]

ye, i mean we will see

[peak ice]

yea

[vale pine]

there is a high possibility that raid items see tuning or changes before release

[tepid trellis]

ready for DS

[vale pine]

nicuu

[fiery summit]

its 1100 with guidon yeah?

[earnest crane]

1100 haste ?!!! is it possible ?

[hollow spear]

Obviously not

[tepid trellis]

its just my trickster gear + lura ring and haste flask

[hollow spear]

Lura ring kinda good ngl

[tepid trellis]

quite a bit of haste on it

[hollow spear]

is the tertiary random?

got avoidance

[tepid trellis]

ngl was from vault

so no clue

[hollow spear]

mine is heroic though, will enter the wipe factory next raid

[tepid trellis]

gonna try DS on windchime in a bit when they kill Aleria + bird

[hollow spear]

kinda blasts ngl

[hollow spear]

wait, that's without flask

haste flask instead of mastery flask

pretty decent tertiaries on your gear

[vale pine]

nice

looks good

[tepid trellis]

time to mark snipe crystals on windchime

surely it wont bug out

[hollow spear]

kinda afraid of that

but we're progressing, so I can at least try

[vale pine]

just mfd it

XD

[tepid trellis]

thats what im gonna do

but surely the crystals dying wont make my mark fly off to narnia

[vale pine]

i hate how i still associate the name of the spell with a diffrent spell

[vale pine]

nahh, that would never happen

[peak ice]

might be a dumb question, but does airborn irratant work on the kick ads in lura

[tepid trellis]

no

[peak ice]

dam

stupid eyeless crystals

[tepid trellis]

they cant be cc'd they need to be interrupted

[hollow spear]

if they could be cc'ed it would trivialize the whole thing

[peak ice]

yea

rip

[old lynx]

Blizz loves putting vers on fkin everything these days eh

[peak ice]

so its just kidney, cheap, and kick?

[hollow spear]

play DS and you won't mind vers

[hollow spear]

just kick

[peak ice]

just kick

bruh i been kidney shotting this shit

[hollow spear]

rip indeed

[peak ice]

lol

fuck

[old lynx]

So for strictly m+ around the 19-20 range, is DS worth swapping to? I really dont raid (wife and 11 month old zero time for that). Checked pins, looks like the prio might be worth it

[tepid trellis]

DS hell nah

not for m+

[old lynx]

Word

[tepid trellis]

its strictly for single target

[lilac stag]

I’ll try it on crown after reset.

not sure if that’s actually the play or not but yolo

[tepid trellis]

probs is

[lilac stag]

we hit 11% on Thursday which was second full day of prog for us. Was funny getting full 2nd sblades on p1 to just holding it for p2

no battleshout is

[marble sail]

press buttons harder to compensate

[lilac stag]

I just let rngjesus take the wheel

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-take-the-wheel-jesus-drive-gif-12802178

[marble sail]

if ur raid call can start hearing ur button presses u know its a 100 parse inc

[lilac stag]

ngl with being visually impaired, when I get to play add sniper in p2 I just stop doing everything else. If I manage a green parse I’ll be happy.

[marble sail]

is there a guild for visually impaired like it is for the deaf kings?

[tribal blade]

all melee should be doing that tbh

until they're actually lined up

so easy to accidentally miss

[lilac stag]

Yeah it’s called friends I’ve raided with for multiple expansions.

[marble sail]

how does that work, like how visually impared can u be to still play wow/raid

[frail kindle]

yo whose got the ultimate ds funnel build cooked up

[lilac stag]

my depth perception is very limited. I have no peripheral vision. Soooo separating depth effects and particle effect is even more horrendous that what most people see with blizzard’s telegraphing of mechanics with spell effects on them.

[tribal blade]

yeah scath had a lot of fun on saladbar 1.0

having no peripheral vision

[lilac stag]

you learn to adjust and rely on whatever help addons can offer.

[marble sail]

so u basically only see exactly what u focus on?

[lilac stag]

I’m not sure how you mean

[tribal blade]

he means you kinda have to point and shoot to see

like a camera

if that makes sense

[marble sail]

i think i just have a hard time imagining whats that like 😭

[vale pine]

should be fine for crown

[lilac stag]

guess that’s one way to look at it. Put your hands flat on the side of the head and extend them forward so you take away your peripheral.

[marble sail]

lura glaives will be very rough

[lilac stag]

sladbar I had to get max range without fucking up baits. Blizzard made life much worse when they capped fov

[tribal blade]

lol i still remember telling you "i look with my peripherals to see the clones"

[lilac stag]

I’m just very consistent about focusing on mechanics over getting another cast in or panicking over oh no I fucked up apex shit

[marble sail]

so ur just a good raider

[lilac stag]

and for our level of prog, Dps is rarely the block

[marble sail]

i mean dps is mostly irrelevant unless ur like in the top 50-100 maybe

[lilac stag]

I think our arms warrior did 110k on paladins

[marble sail]

getting used to a fight will gain u tons of dps if u were to miss some

[lilac stag]

switching from tank to dps not easy.

[marble sail]

😭

[lilac stag]

I try. I know I come with my own affix. It is what it is.

which always makes me laugh if someone wants to shit on my logs for being blue or purple or green.

whatever lets you sleep at night.

[marble sail]

[tepid trellis]

almost a 1 tap

[hollow spear]

damn

did you gap though?

[tepid trellis]

3 new people in

kinda suprising

[hollow spear]

big

overall or boss damage?

[marble sail]

kyle my goat

[tepid trellis]

overall

[hollow spear]

that's pretty big since your add damage is probably ass

did you try to add snipe?

[tepid trellis]

nah

[rugged fern]

Quick one, Guys - if not tell me to GTFO - I dont raid, i dont have GIDEON i play m+ Trikster is the 1100 Haste still a thing or is that mainly for raid ?

[tepid trellis]

1100 haste is no trickster

its for Deathstalker

[marble sail]

1100 is only for DS

[tepid trellis]

trickster is 700 with guidon and 800 without

[rugged fern]

FMe Sideways ! Cheers haha 😄

[lilac stag]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[rugged fern]

Legends !

[hollow spear]

@tribal blade we need an amendment to include deathstalker, it's taking over already

[tribal blade]

yeah was already thinking i need to do something for DS haha

could make 1 for trickster and 1 for DS

[rain swift]

i assume I wont be griefing my own dps if im overshooting the haste by like 10 kekw

[hollow spear]

or you just spread misinformation on the internet and tell people to always aim for 1.100

[tribal blade]

not at all

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[tribal vortex]

what is actual haste for DS ? more than 1100 or less?

[lilac stag]

-200 Dps grief

[tribal vortex]

I have like 973 without pot

[lilac stag]

1070 I think was the 684 spot

[tribal vortex]

1130 will be ok ?

ah ok

[tribal blade]

yeah going slightly over will be fine

[tribal vortex]

Yeah I ll check if I can drop it a bit

[tepid trellis]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[tribal vortex]

is DS good for belo ? Or I should stick with trickster?

[rain swift]

this would be such a fun thing to do in pugs and just whisper random rogues in raid group

and gaslight

[tribal blade]

both will be good

the only real dps check now on beloren is killing the add eggs on time

[tribal vortex]

Kinda bored of trickster while waiting for some guys to understand the fight

[tribal vortex]

Yeah indeed, so trickster could be better on that regard

[tribal blade]

would be yeah

[lilac stag]

you’re gonna be bored on DS too.

[tribal vortex]

Something new to practice at least xd

[hollow spear]

you need to practice being less trigger happy

I went from backstab souping to hands off the keyboard souping

The damage breakdown from my dummy session is kinda hilarious though

Almost looks like assa rogue

[true coral]

Hi! I've been watching some logs, and I struggle to understand my damage output
In this screen, I'm on the left, better guy is on the right, we have similar Ilvl, similar stats, not enough imo to explain the damage difference. Not taking into account the dps since I took longer to time the key, would any of you, at first glance, have an explanation as to why my damage is noticeably lower? It's like that on lots of my keys. Thank you very much!

[drifting ether]

Average hit on bp and st is higher so probably his tank is grouping mobs better and/or he’s using cds better when mobs are grouped

[lilac stag]

Trying to guess what’s going on without actual logs isn’t very useful. Just a fyi. Use !log if you want to try to dive into what’s going on

[solar sigil]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brisk raptor]

do you have to use haste flask to hit the 1100 haste mark?

[hazy breach]

No

But if you can't hit it without, it's a good option

[brisk raptor]

i have alleria neck so it seems possible, probably just need to regem and craft the single stat items with haste. thanks eleem

[tribal vortex]

yeah with crafted engi item it is doable

[hollow spear]

Eleem, out of curiosity. Have you simed AA minmax on ds?

I feel like it's a bigger tradeoff on ds than it is on trickster, especially when it comes to the pre-pull dance.

[simple locust]

can the new sporefused item be converted into tier set?

[true coral]

Thank you !

[true coral]

Yeah I guess, I'll try that thank you! I wanted to know if there was a quick, known thing I missed

!log

[dreamy wedge]

Your key was longer but you cast 36 less shadowsrikes?

[true coral]

I noticed that the guy had 1 SD more than I did, and I don't know how that's possible

When I did the key it didn't seem like I was sitting on shadow dances

[dreamy wedge]

Maybe you are not using shadowstrike on 2-3 targets?

[hollow spear]

You should move this conversation into the log thread that just got created

[undone cliff]

Oh dang! Just saw that DS is the go to now. Time to practice.

Trickster will still be m+?

[somber sun]

obv

[lilac stag]

what did you see? if it's the pin, this Its still very bad at doing any form of AoE should answer your trickster question

[graceful osprey]

I’m still going to play trickster in raids lol

[hollow spear]

reported

[sullen hare]

I'll play ds after they rework it to where ds isn't short for dogshit

[brisk raptor]

3 quick questions:

1. is it worth applying fazed to a pack before sending cds in m+?
2. should i be going into every dance window with a apex proc for my dance/secret tech macro so it procs it?
3. sometimes i notice on boss fights my find weakness falls off and is not active before cds, should i wait for it to reapply before sending cds?

[raw wadi]

Is there any known bug/interaktion between sub rogues activating their shadow dance and then demo warlocks ninja pull stuff?

[lilac stag]

No. Warlocks busy blaming rogues instead of doing further testing on their own

Brief conversation here. #subtlety message

[raw wadi]

thanks a lot @lilac stag

ill read it

[lilac stag]

Since there was no follow up I’m assuming it’s something on the lock end and they’ll continue speculating

[graceful osprey]

I don’t want to deal with cancelaura as DS lol so trickster it is

[limber folio]

why do we do this tho

[wheat edge]

yoo hold the fort, dps shoulder enchant!!

[hollow spear]

😮

[wheat edge]

[raw wadi]

A Warlock from my raid testet it with Assa/Sub/Outlaw. While they did nothing he had 3 back to back ninja pulls when tried with the sub rogue

[lime vortex]

Is DS still a bit ahead if i can only hit 1034 haste ? I can go 1099 with the highest secondary stat food but is it worth it ?

[lilac stag]

So the rogue is just standing there and the lock pulls doing nothing?

if this it the case we are truly gods amongst mortals.

[raw wadi]

yes

[tepid trellis]

cuz its tuned in way where its more dmg to do so?

[lilac stag]

sweet. send the logs to John Blizzard and have them fix warlocks

[olive sluice]

i have some question with the next change of hero talent.

trickster will be below after changes ? for raid and m+ ?
And why do we need 1100 haste for necro ?

[lime vortex]

Well Trickster is already below in ST

Even without the inc buff

[tepid trellis]

trickster still better for AoE
as for the 1100 haste its do get 9 globals in dance

more fat Darkest night evisc's = goodge

[hollow spear]

juicy 132 dps for me, count me in

[wispy crystal]

For mythic baloren, are rogues playing death stalker or trickster?

[hollow spear]

can play either

trickster helps more with adds

[tribal vortex]

probably adds are a bigger issue atm

[wheat edge]

[hollow spear]

deathstalker probably outdamages on boss

[short radish]

He's just standing there... menacingly

[summer mason]

Did they nerf anything this week? Like ST damage or something?

[hollow spear]

nope

you're just washed