subtlety

[dusky yacht]

Got them from 0 key level to 10s done well if they understand the strats, if not, we brick tf out of the key and say nothing

[upbeat cradle]

A tank did that in a 10. A 10 and he was pulling each pack separately. He has 270ilvl

I started ninja pulling non stop and saying it was the lock pet

[dusky yacht]

Bro I was doing 10s day 1 of the higher key release day

[upbeat cradle]

The lock was like ''oh yea that's me sorry'' while laughing with me in dms

😂😂😂

[dusky yacht]

[upbeat cradle]

I did a SEAT 12 on the first day

Timed it

[dusky yacht]

I mean I get it if they're new though but like holy

[peak ice]

I had a tank leave cause I kept pulling more

[upbeat cradle]

Then nobody wanted to do keys with me for a few weeks lol

[peak ice]

It was a 10 key 2 weeks ago

[upbeat cradle]

The warlock was nice tho

[peak ice]

We all mythed out

Pull the entire room bruh

[upbeat cradle]

Honestly very easy

Ilvl is so high that even if you pull pack by pack they die so fast

It's just that instead of +3 you get a +1 on the key

[empty bobcat]

yeah probably this

[peak ice]

Feel like if you don’t throw 10 deaths u can time shit easy even going slow

[foggy estuary]

The ol pet gaslight supreme🥷

[upbeat cradle]

I did a WS 10 last week, took a mage and DH with 2k rio

They didn't know any mechanics

They got hit by every single fear on third boss

Saw the heal run after them to try to stack and they kept running away

In the end he gave up and came melee

2k rio and no knowledge of a dungeon

[foggy estuary]

Many such cases, sadly. Even on 3k even.

[upbeat cradle]

In TWW 2k rio was decent. Midnight 3k rio and you can see things that'd give you nightmares

Heck even 3.5k

My fav was the 3.6kferal saying he couldn't dispel curses, only poisons

🌝

[peak ice]

That’s just a Druid thing

Just nothing up there

[empty bobcat]

we timed a 16 skyreach yesterday and I got blamed for 1 death at first boss from the druid healer and when he died at the wind platform even though hes a fkn cat I lol'd at him and then he stopped healing me at last boss kek

[upbeat cradle]

Top 1% is resi 19 right ?

[gusty wharf]

!log

[peak ice]

For the achievement?

Think so?

[upbeat cradle]

I think what you're doing wrong is that you're using puzzlebox

[mighty citrus]

with all the upgrades now how was the "rule about 700 haste with trinket again? do i need to have 700 flat or is it fine to count 32haste from oils so i just need 668 flat?

[weary tree]

Its not a hard cap

Its just a number that makes it achievable for us to get the extra gcds inside dance

The less you have the harder it is, the more the easier

So yes 668 with oils will do the trick too, but if you notice youre missing a gcd at the end then you might want to consider slightly moreh aste

[upbeat cradle]

And it's accounting oils

And flasks if you use those

[mighty citrus]

i see

cause sims ofc go lower haste, as it is a robot, so its quite tricky to find my optimal gear, as i have a few rings etc

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jxWrsoetcusB6dvN3emxvX

[weary tree]

yep

[mighty citrus]

for example

[weary tree]

Just go to 700 haste and get mastery/crit

Dont really look at the top gear as much

[livid frigate]

Is there a max amount of crit i need

[mighty citrus]

in this sim it says take 1000 mastery and only 700 crit and still use mastery flask btw

[weary tree]

no

[weary tree]

just equal crit and mastery ish

[upbeat cradle]

Crit and mast are roughly equal with mastery being better for aoe and crit for st

[mighty citrus]

and i could change the ring with a crit heavy one, ending up below 800 mastery and 800 crit

[short radish]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[weary tree]

You can sim for crit vs mastery if you want

[drifting ether]

Finished gearing perfectly balanced?

[weary tree]

So long as you dont change haste values

Otherwise the sims wont be accurate

[mighty citrus]

i would rather keep it simple though

[short radish]

3% vers too much (i have that vers as well)

[mighty citrus]

dont make a masters degree out of it 😄

[livid frigate]

im at 796 haste and it feels so much better then having 700 haste

[short radish]

then get 700 haste before guidon

and acquire crit/mastery

[drifting ether]

I actually took it, i dont mind it for m+

It simmed similar to other stats

[livid frigate]

my crit is 546 and my mastery is 1090

[short radish]

yeah same. vers my beloved

[weary tree]

it will feel nicer, but if you have guidon then youre wasting dps

[livid frigate]

i dont run guidion i run gaze and pbox

[weary tree]

Then thats fine

[broken sail]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[short radish]

if you have pbox then you want 800

796 is fine though

but definitely dont go 795

[mighty citrus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jxmN9pa2zkeL2eBQqTBNhy

then this sims 1k below the other

but it has the 700 haste

900 crit, 800 mastery

[livid frigate]

yeah thats what im saying but do i need more crit cause i have like 500 more mastery then crit

[mighty citrus]

will use mastery flask

cool 😄

[short radish]

if youre doing m+

then you kinda want more mastery than crit anyway

[weary tree]

Haste is a pretty useless stat once you can get the desired gcds inside dance

That's why its a hard falloff in sims for a bot

[livid frigate]

yeah copy i seem to be doing good dps

[short radish]

attalad

stats dont matter past haste breakpoint

just press buttons

[broken sail]

!talents

[livid frigate]

hahah some times i get flustered too many buttons to press lol

[broken sail]

anyone able to share some Raid ST talent build 😄

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[upbeat cradle]

i mean vers is not BAD

it's just not AS good

still always useful tho

[peak ice]

Can i ask a non subtlety macro question in here

[void ocean]

yo guys, dagger can be recrafted after its been upgraded to 295, right?

[peak ice]

yep did it yesterday

[upbeat cradle]

no idea haven't tried but probably

[void ocean]

no additional costs or other things?

[peak ice]

nope was just the normal recraft costs

I assume ur sending it out max rank, idk what happens if you like, drop its quality level

[wispy crystal]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[void ocean]

aye, cool, tnx

[ashen warren]

For Belo’ren mythic egg phase I sim higher with puzzlebox than guidon, but why everybody is using guidon on this fight ?

I’m not a fan of puzzlebox but it’s just much more higher in sim

[placid crown]

I also generally sim better with box than guidon, at equivalent ilvl, whatever the duration of the fight

like ~0.3% better

and i'm almost full stuff (just need to change a hero ring into the mythic one)

[open coyote]

Can we macro sec tech info dance/blades?

Like
/cast blades
/Cast dance
/Cast sec tec

[gusty wharf]

i use this

[formal marlin]

hey, does our haste breakpoint get lower with 298 guidon?

[gusty wharf]

not sure if its ok though

[open coyote]

I belive our haste breakpoint is unrelated to guidon

The 700~ haste is 7.5 sec per dance so you get 7 globals in

With guidon og goes to 8.9

So you would need a lot more haste to make guidon give you an extra global

[formal marlin]

but more haste from guidon we get longer shadow dance and shorter sectec cd no?

[ashen warren]

Make sure to sim guidon with 700 haste and puzzlebox with 800 haste, otherwise the results will not match our haste requirement

[small sleet]

haste does not change

[open coyote]

But then you start hitting DR on haste

[small sleet]

700 haste means 8 globals in dance

outside of cds

[formal marlin]

ok understand

thanks guys

[open coyote]

What is the reason for this?

[tribal blade]

you're not sending blades immediately on pull on beloren usually

which means you can't use box on pull

[small sleet]

puzzlebox is probably the better prog trinket for beloren, but the top parses will be reclears where they probably pad on adds with 3rd cds

[open coyote]

You also dont want to stand afk during egg burn

[ashen warren]

Yup, and I don’t use it on pull

Idc about logs, I just want to maximize my dmg during egg phase

[tribal blade]

you can just cast it right before the dive

then gate in

[open coyote]

Yeah i thought he was also using on pull

Which then he would need to afk no?

[small sleet]

then its prob puzzle box, and dont use at 20s

[tribal blade]

prob yeah

[small sleet]

you can precast puzzlebox

[tribal blade]

yeah you can use puzzlebox

it's fine

[ashen warren]

Yeah that’s what I figured

[open coyote]

How low do you guys get belo during first egg?

[tribal blade]

all the dmg in non egg phases is kinda "pointless"

[wheat edge]

Lowkey add damage in p2 is more important than egg at this point

[tribal blade]

except dmg on adds is actually important

[ashen warren]

And casting it before gate I don’t like, I prefer to gate vanish shadowstrike and then pbox

[open coyote]

My guild just hit it and have had an evening of prog, so far our best is 36% i think

[wheat edge]

I played full cleave talents as assa yesterday on it

[tribal blade]

pAdDiNg

[wheat edge]

Egg was 29% after first burn anyways

[ashen warren]

We haven’t seen a full p2 yet but that’s what I fear

[wheat edge]

Only ele shaman beat me on egg dam anyways

[weary tree]

we pushing beloran at 1:30 now

[tribal blade]

i didn't get a full blades off at the end of the fight on our kill today

sad days

[tribal blade]

lol nice

[small sleet]

fight is basically over when you get through p2, second egg burn is guaranteed kill unless some tragic shit happened

we killed it the first time we made it through p2, and had like 20s left on 2nd burn or somethin

[tribal blade]

we killed it today finally, we got through P2 for the first time then killed it seeing 2nd egg phase for the first time

[wheat edge]

But it felt like the hardest part of the fight was p2 adds cause its a bit hecitc and they werent cleaved as well as in p1

[tribal blade]

it's super free

[peak ice]

p2 ads are defo the hardest bit

[tribal blade]

yeah we were having that issue too

[open coyote]

Do you guys have sec tec macroed into your blade/dance macro?

[ashen warren]

Thanks for the feebacks I’ll warn my clan

[small sleet]

yes

[peak ice]

yep

[open coyote]

Alright ill start doing that then

[peak ice]

#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique

[tribal blade]

beloren is not really a dps fight anymore

[ashen warren]

For the belo fight I have like three macro for dance/sec tec

[tribal blade]

it's a mechanics check

[wheat edge]

Which was a dumb way to nerf it imo but it is what it is

[weary tree]

beloren is just about how good can you deal with the balls

[small sleet]

imo its the worst fight in the raid now

its so insanely unsatisfying to kill

[weary tree]

its bugged so much

[tribal blade]

agreed it was a bit weird

[weary tree]

annoying

[tribal blade]

yeah there was something cool about the dps check being a very real thing

now you're just running down the boss face first with 0 thought into what you're doing cds wise

[wheat edge]

Did feel better than killing crown tho cause we killed that 2nd pull after reset last week

Just fell over..

[tribal blade]

yeah i feel like they overnerfed crown too a bit

but my guild was still struggling to rekill it

so it's prob good nerfs

[vale pine]

easier is generally better

[small sleet]

i dont mind easier, its just really unsatisfying when dps optimization is completely thrown out the window

[wheat edge]

Yeah im just sad that p2/p3 are the fun parts of crown and it just is weirdly anti-climactic now

[tribal blade]

it was really cool looking into beloren and seeing how to optimize egg dmg

[wheat edge]

I wanted the feeling of killing it as the platform was closing in..

[tribal blade]

now it's just unga bunga

[open coyote]

Crown was a struggle for us because we kept missing the adds with obelisks

[wheat edge]

Soon tho.. 1 phase time

[reef walrus]

I thought something was bugged on our kill becuase the boss just disappeared, turns out we accidentally killed it

[tribal blade]

haha yeah possibly

[reef walrus]

was extremely unsatisfying

[small sleet]

lmao

[open coyote]

Because people still (100 pulls in) cant bait the obelisk positioning

But personally i felt it was a cool fight

[tribal blade]

they royally fucked it for melee

[open coyote]

I guess that may just be because of the level ny guild is at

[tribal blade]

they should have nerfed the fight to make it better for melee

story of this entire tier

except maybe lura

[open coyote]

Only annoying part is droplets in p1 i feel like the rest of the mechanics are cool

Droplets as in the floor shit they drop after dying

[tribal blade]

yeah they should have nerfed the puddle debuff so it was much more likely to go on the adds

if not not able to go on melee

[lofty sun]

So is there much difference between guidon and feather?

[tribal blade]

guidon is infinitely better

[open coyote]

Most difference is that guidon is useable every time blades is ready, feather is not since its 2min

[lofty sun]

ah that is fair, no prob, thanks lol

[open coyote]

So feather is either on pull and at 3 min with 3rd blades

Or on pull and at 2 min with 2nd bladed

[lofty sun]

I don't do much of any raiding, only reason why I asked, I currently have puzzle and feather lol

[tribal blade]

use puzzle

[open coyote]

In that case i would use puzzle on pull and on 3

[lofty sun]

Yeah that's what I have been doing

[open coyote]

Btw do you guys save pot on salhadar for damage amp or just on pull with lust

[halcyon star]

I see 2 bis list, one has nxp rings and the other doesnt. Is the nxp ring set bonus decent?

[tribal blade]

just rip it on pull, you will very likely not get a 2nd use if you don't

[tribal blade]

it's roughly +0.5% of free dmg

so if you can accomodate that set with your other gear stats wise

it's good

[halcyon star]

Great thanks!

[halcyon star]

Sorry, one last question. Mythic Beloren is a long way off for my guild, should I go for the dagger off Vor or dagger from Skyreach for my mythic dagger until then?

[hazy breach]

Either

Whatever you have thats the highest ilvl

[void ocean]

is tier token also available for bonus roll?

for raid bosses

[hazy breach]

Yes

[void ocean]

damn

so 30% chance for Gaze xD

well 33% + w/e is the chance to drop and me highroll it

[peak ice]

Skyreach is only 1 core to roll for though

[earnest crane]

and u cant get the same item with roll

[peak ice]

And the pool is similar

[halcyon star]

Thanks! I lost the Vor dagger tonight to a hunter so fingers crossed next week

[void ocean]

i know, i only rolled once so far, last week and got that other trinket

so 3 items left in the pool, hence 33%

[earnest crane]

so u will get belt next dont worry

[void ocean]

haha fu

i know i will but still, fu 😄

[earnest crane]

😄

[void ocean]

i mean i have 285 gaze so its not gonna be some super huge upgrade anyway

[earnest crane]

it is

285>>>298

[void ocean]

its like ~700 dps prolly

tho im still not fully attuned to these new numbers

my brain still operates in millions

[earnest crane]

700 of anything is alot even chopsticks

[void ocean]

its fine

[earnest crane]

u are not gonna get it

[void ocean]

now u r just increasing my chances 😄

[earnest crane]

yea 😄

guys is it me only or u dont feel much buff with aug too?

[small sleet]

i think aug is pretty noticeable

[foggy thorn]

Yes I think we dont scale Good with Aug

[small sleet]

aug gives main stat, we scale fine with main stat lol

[earnest crane]

i m doing pretty much the same dmg its more than usuall but not huge

[somber sun]

you are looking for lura/alleria neck piece ?

[foggy thorn]

Same Max 20-30 k more dps on 18-19 keys

All keys with Aug was Not intime 🥲

[earnest crane]

i ve done 204k overall in MT 19 without aug with aug on 18 it was 212

we had 3 min extra on the 19 but in 18 we were so behind

i dont know how aug works maybe its their gamplay problem

[small sleet]

you can see augs effect in pure single target pretty easily

[marble sail]

!ss

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[foggy thorn]

Ok I Think class phys. comp Its better

[earnest crane]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/by8B7WPjA3kaKzQc?fight=1&type=damage-done

yea this is phsyc comp

[hazy breach]

Of course

[small sleet]

yeah phys comp is better for us, im just saying we scale fine with aug

[hazy breach]

But that's not "sub is bad with Aug"

[foggy thorn]

Ok ok

[earnest crane]

if i dont gain as much as warlock with Aug its bad 😄

[hazy breach]

There's no difference in "how much classes gain" from aug

[small sleet]

everyone gets the same amount of main stat lol

[earnest crane]

yea but the stat scale is diffrent from each other

[hazy breach]

No

[small sleet]

in most logs im looking at, i do around 30% more damage while i have an aug in my group

which is very sizeable

[small sleet]

while we're both in cds i should say

[earnest crane]

on my xp everytime with aug i felt less pressure on mechanics but more pressure on timer

[small sleet]

also depends on if the aug is actually playing well or not

[hazy breach]

Aug is just another dps spec

[earnest crane]

and its hard to know if he plays good or not

maybe its for me only

but i cant understand it

[vale pine]

congratulations

[drifting ether]

ty ty!

The crests uncapped was major

[tall girder]

yw renki

as my no1 fan i did the best i could for you

[small sleet]

how much single target do we gain from funnel? i know its nothing gamechanging but it definitely feels nice to be able to shuriken storm for full combo points

[drifting ether]

Hahaha ty teacher

[keen steppe]

Would be a better comp for sub monk shaman devourer rogue + druid? Bcs of phys buff from monk and magic from dev?

[small sleet]

youd prefer warrior buff over dh or monk buff

[keen steppe]

Ah

Why i forget the warrior

Nvm

[marble sail]

does anyone here have time to check my sim out, idk why im simming so low, can also barely get any upgrades from droptimizer (mythic head ofc)

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iDdES7dBz6jyLHAetAAdPh

[keen steppe]

All my logic is gone

[small sleet]

that sim number seems decently reasonable, what were you expecting? also you might be able to get a bit more dps by using mastery flask on sim over crit

[timid pulsar]

Skill issue

[marble sail]

gained 50 😭

[steel scroll]

what we simming highest anyway

[marble sail]

130k as trickster

[steel scroll]

how

[marble sail]

i did a top gear with the alleria neck, recrafts and rings and i gained like 500

idk how its possible to reach 130k

[small sleet]

the 130k sim has vantus on

the 130k sim also has the prepull supercharger combo points added in i beileve

if you took your sim, changed yourself to panda, added in vantus and supercharged combo points, you'd be quite a bit closer to the 130k number

[marble sail]

yeah okay i had no idea about that stuff

[tribal blade]

me too today huge

[drifting ether]

Ayy lets goo

[tribal blade]

got a shit parse

but i don't give a fuck lol

i'm just happy it's dead

AND happy i don't need to be running around cloaking orbs anymore

[drifting ether]

Bruh you dont wanna see my alleria one

I died to p3 explosion

But im pretty happy we got em killed

[tepid trellis]

tbf to play for the fight you get a shit one

[tribal blade]

haha that's fair

[latent remnant]

i feel like it's only gonna get worse with more gear until you don't care about how fast you phase to egg

[tribal blade]

managed to snag an 80 on alleria, i'm now 1 of 2 people on my raid team who have parsed a purple on that fight from 3 kills

[latent remnant]

egg damage is all that matters

[tribal blade]

yeah parsing beloren kinda a huge meme

[tall girder]

lura stinks

[drifting ether]

I look like i got a alleria boost

[tall girder]

we havent got passed kicks yet

[tribal blade]

lol nah alleria is also kind of a meme parsing boss

[small sleet]

wtf

with proper prep, you should wipe once or twice to kicks before everyone has it down consistently

[tall girder]

we didnt think we would kill belo tn

so no one prepped lura

[drifting ether]

I thought we would but not that fast hahahah

[small sleet]

o LOL

[tribal blade]

oh that's different

you've been on it barely 1 night

[tall girder]

we have had like 4 pulls HAHAHA

[tribal blade]

we didn't even go for lura after killing belo, just went to rekill crown and then do a group sesh setting up addons

[drifting ether]

My first ce is coming lads

[tall girder]

u already got 2

[tribal blade]

oh huge

[tall girder]

chim and crown

[tribal blade]

LOL nah those don't count

lura is the actual CE

[tall girder]

xddd

[drifting ether]

Hahaha

[tall girder]

this will be my first CE that isnt on rogue

[tribal blade]

tragic

[drifting ether]

Its okay im the yellow in here

[tribal blade]

i have never played anything but rogue for my guild

[tight fjord]

One off resil 20 after my work in keys today

[tall girder]

ive been rogue prison since s4 bfa

[tribal blade]

WTF IS THIS GOOD NEWS DAY TODAY

EVERYBODY IS KILLING BELO

EVERYBODY IS KILLING KEYS

[small sleet]

i timed nothing today gg

[drifting ether]

Its a good day for the sub discord 🤣

[tribal blade]

unfortunately that just becomes the norm once you're high enough in IO

[tight fjord]

Reldo at least u have a team

[tribal blade]

and then the adrenaline and dopmine you get from finally timing a key

goes off the charts

or i should say getting IO

[small sleet]

TRUE

like half my io keys rn are timed without my team though lmao

[tribal blade]

double tragic

i miss having a team, it was so chill pushing keys

never sitting in lfg

never any confusion about route

[drifting ether]

Since i started doing some keys i somehow made a team so i can play rogue hahaha

[tight fjord]

Even when I’m with my title friends we don’t really have a subtlety comp and we don’t have a shaman at all

[tall girder]

thats how pugging goes

[drifting ether]

Ya 100%

[tall girder]

u jam enough pug keys and eventually start getting people who consistently sign up

then u bnet them and move on

thats how i made my team aside from fj and zuzap

[small sleet]

i just push with guildies

[tribal blade]

i actually very rarely add people to my bnet, i let them add me

[tall girder]

thats what happened to me

[small sleet]

but i know my guild has a disproportionate amount of high m+ players

[tall girder]

i got alot of bnets

[tribal blade]

so then whenever someone on my bnet doesn't take me to a key

it's even more confusing

i have a bunch of people in this channel on my bnet

[tall girder]

can i have u on bnet

[tribal blade]

SURE

Prophet#13478 if you truly want

am i doxxing myself

[tall girder]

yea

[tribal blade]

holy shit that was so fast

[tall girder]

i would of dm'd it to me

[tribal blade]

wtf

/dead

[tepid trellis]

yours got nothing on mine

[tall girder]

i said i wasnt playin rogue

[tribal blade]

are you guys still private logging

[tepid trellis]

yees

[tribal blade]

haha nice

you got nothing to prove anyways

[small sleet]

no he's just 0/9m still :/

[tall girder]

are u on rogue stealthi

[tepid trellis]

fwiw parses prove nothing

[tepid trellis]

yes

[tribal blade]

BASED

[tepid trellis]

im the only one mentally ill enough to play it in my guild

[tribal blade]

that seems to be the norm with rogues

[tall girder]

u play dh sometimes yea

[tepid trellis]

my split alt is DH

[tribal blade]

can't wait till they give us a raid buff and some other cool stuff

[tepid trellis]

i dont actively play it

[tribal blade]

and then we got a buttload of fotm hoppers

[vagrant sinew]

go veng and tank my keys

[tepid trellis]

how bout no

[vagrant sinew]

I tried

[tall girder]

i can tank ur keys

im professional +12 tanker

[golden thunder]

doe we hold box always for shadow blades ? bothers me that the cd isnt sync like guidon ^^

[small sleet]

box? yes you use every other shadow blades like its a 3m cooldown

[pale ravine]

Is there a link for known bugs?

[hazy breach]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[golden thunder]

is there a list for all "!" commands?

[alpine wraith]

you can do !help and moroes dms you

[worldly root]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[south robin]

For those short on myth crests, like myself.. With the cap gone, am I assuming correctly that farming ritual sites and converting the hero crests is faster than doing +12s?

Or reliably close at least

[alpine wraith]

depends how fast are you

skyreach can be like 14 mins or so

but you also need to find a group etc

[fossil forge]

Das some cap hacha

Skyreach is a 9 min dungeon

[small sleet]

[fossil forge]

Nvm we never got to 9

10:41 is very close though

[alpine wraith]

some blasters over here

[fossil forge]

The 1 bl run is real

soon..

[marble sail]

[foggy estuary]

Any hopes of our poisons doing some extra dam on rotmire to bring at least something in raid?👀

[alpine wraith]

you can have hope it just wont be much

[hazy breach]

What

[upbeat cradle]

And fire mage would just instant kill it with fire ?

[vital ocean]

this seems like a extreme overcook, you want bonus dmg to the guy cause he's a plant or whats the logic here?

[nocturne tendon]

if anything, poisons should do less damage to plants

[torpid echo]

I posted this earlier but didn't get a clear answer so trying again.
I was farming pit legs and in the process got the pit neck. I ran a couple of sims and it says ST the pit neck is better but the crafted one with haste mastery is better for multiple targets, whiles the hero track pvp neck is better for dungeon slice...
What should I do? Commit to the pit neck and maybe change flask from crit to mastery (sim tells me to drink crit rn) or just go crafted neck since there's not a whole lot of ST fights?
Can post Sims again if necessary

[hazy breach]

I dont understand the question

[lilac stag]

Same as always. Get 700/800 haste. Favor mastery for m+

[hazy breach]

What do you mean "commit"? You already have the neck?

You already have the answer laid out for you, the crit one for more ST and the mastery one for more aoe

[torpid echo]

yes, but I don't have the crafted one and was wondering if I could get away without crafting it xD

but I guess I could stop being lazy and get both LOL

[lilac stag]

if you craft, the pit neck cost 20 crests to upgrade.

[torpid echo]

good point, didn't think about that, ty

[upbeat cradle]

oh if i craft both engineer boots and bracers with haste i can get 1100

maybe i'll try to get them done for my raid tomorrow

[drifting ether]

If you use the pit neck you can get mastery from somewhere else

[upbeat cradle]

instead of making them with mastery

[boreal fulcrum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WKqPTwdc2L4BVQz?fight=25&type=damage-done
would anyone mind helping me out with a log review on Mythic Paladins? im doing pretty shit currently and would love anotehr set of eyes

[lilac stag]

Use !log please

[boreal fulcrum]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WKqPTwdc2L4BVQz?fight=25&type=damage-done

[somber sun]

Excuse my ignorance, for mythic dragons is it better to just shadow strike instead of storm during dance windows ( except when adds spawn ) ?

[surreal orbit]

storm if more than 3

[hallow matrix]

Is it not 3 or more?

[small sleet]

You still shadowstrike at 3 targets in dance

[hallow matrix]

WElp

Just got a 95 on Mythic vanguards using storm when 3 targets

guess i could've got higher

[fallow ingot]

sadly cannot get M alleria neck until l'ura is dead kekw

[vale pine]

📈

[timid rose]

y'all breaking 290... i'll be happy when i cap at 288 when i finally get my 2nd ring

[somber sun]

[fallow ingot]

Cannot switch my neckless i will lose my haste breakpoint

[sly shore]

it's only minor stat changes now tbh

[somber sun]

just craft one for the moment ngl

[fallow ingot]

or i dont remember how many haste give the saladar one

[sly shore]

I can swap my neck and then use non-tier legs to keep haste

[somber sun]

unless you got guaranteed ring from roll

[sly shore]

78 haste from neck

[fallow ingot]

There is no heavy haste neck other then alleria one right ?

[swift tinsel]

pit neck is baby haste

big crit

[fallow ingot]

i have 15 haste left over

cannot do much

[proper sun]

If I don't have access to myth Beloren which mainhand should I use instead? the one from sr??

[somber sun]

that or pit

[timid rose]

crafted wouldn't be better, i have heroic Omission, just fishing for the mythic one

[sly shore]

alleria/lura neck are low haste so can just swap my legs to higher haste and not lose anything

[somber sun]

ohh if you gonna get the mythic one its fine ig

had h omission too

[sly shore]

literally any myth track dagger

[somber sun]

just crafted mythic ring

until I get rolls for all npx loot

[swift tinsel]

so close to being done with crests

[timid rose]

yeah i crafted 285 pants until i can go roll in the pit 😄

i think my next 3 weeks are just going to be taking sockets

[swift tinsel]

same

[somber sun]

yeah full socket gear looks

[swift tinsel]

they're annoyingly good this season

[timid rose]

not sure if my raid group is going to bother with doing the 12.0.7 raid on myth

[sly shore]

why wouldn't they

it's as easy as chimaerus

if not easier

and it's 15-25 players

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

we'll probably do it once on hc/myth

[sly shore]

it's free 298 gear

[timid rose]

i'm the raid leader, and we're a 10 person raiding group 😄

[sly shore]

so you don't raid mythic anyway then

[timid rose]

we do not.

[sly shore]

makes more sense now then that you won't be doing it on mythic haha

[swift tinsel]

interest is already waning hard for us

but will wait and see what people think come august

[sly shore]

this is the most interested most people have been in a hot minute for us

we love raiding

[timid rose]

Most of my group is just happy to hit AOTC and then go smash keys

[swift tinsel]

we're just starting myth dragons tonight

[sly shore]

we are doing 2 runs

[timid rose]

we only raid 3 hours a week

[swift tinsel]

different strokes for different guilds

[sly shore]

we do 8 hours (2 days)

[timid rose]

and that already feels like a bit much 😄

[swift tinsel]

4 hrs per week here

2hrs/2 days

[sly shore]

we did 8/9 and 5/9 in a night last week

and mostly because we spent 1.5hrs on paladins on the alts only raid

[swift tinsel]

mostly a dad guild

[sly shore]

our average age is like 30

[swift tinsel]

we're mostly mid-late 30's

[timid rose]

yeah i think the average age of my raid group is mid 40s

[swift tinsel]

couple of late 20's and a younger guy

[sly shore]

When it comes down to it, it's mostly about the effort that people put in irregardless of age

[swift tinsel]

well ye

that's the dad moniker

[timid rose]

i'm an old man lol

[sly shore]

I'm half way to 40

[trim quarry]

which dungeons should we use wound poison

[swift tinsel]

not necessarily age but time commitment

[sly shore]

can use it if you pull berserkers in the first part of caverns, else there is no need

if no one else has heal reduction in their kit

[upbeat cradle]

MT

can use it too

on the big ones that deal AoE while healing themselves

otherwise you can just ignore it

[uncut monolith]

What consumable creates buff Sharpened VII? Is it Refulgent whetstone?

[hazy breach]

Adamantite sharpening stone

[uncut monolith]

Its tbc no? U can use it?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tribal blade]

wonder when they're gonna fix that

[swift tinsel]

was just gonna say, surprised that hasn't been fixed yet

considering they mdi ban people for less

[uncut monolith]

Wow my logs gonna be blue again.

[hazy breach]

Its only been like 5 months

Cant expect them to fix things that fast

[tribal blade]

lol true

also it's not super egregious

[swift tinsel]

lol probably waiting for next season to see if its still better

or they genuinely don't care

[tribal blade]

if it gave significantly more dps blizz would prob know about it and fix it by now

[swift tinsel]

ye

[timid rose]

Claude hasn't approved it for a fix yet

[swift tinsel]

minor enough that its 'quirky'

hoping for s2 info in the next couple weeks

[sullen shell]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[tribal blade]

speaking of that if anyone can give this a like/comment to get it more traction would be huge https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-needs-to-bring-a-real-raid-buff/2304579

[keen steppe]

4 times 0,1% and CE Raider sorry graham i love you but your not experienced enough for things like that

[tribal blade]

hahaa trueeee

you're right i should have written 3 time HoF raider too

damn

[keen steppe]

Sounds better but even that would not be enough

[tribal blade]

i am a smol lil rogue begging for scraps from the master

[keen steppe]

Give us crit buff back

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/arthas-lich-king-prince-arthas-the-frozen-throne-warcraft-gif-2172118759711761391

[reef canopy]

Anyone have a good EnhancedQoL profile for rogue?

[swift tinsel]

nah we're 'good enough' without a raid buff to warrant getting one

would be pleasantly surprised, but blizz's probably already forgotten rogue was sat for 3 of the last 4 bosses

[reef walrus]

am I missing something here? there was a rogue on dimensius and a rogue on l'ura for the world first kill no?

[sly shore]

I use it for the bars

as in, energy and combo points

it's really easy to setup yourself though

[lilac stag]

Don’t mind the rogue coming in here and stating they should have brought another dk over the rogue.

Dimensius was a lifetime ago.

[reef walrus]

he still counts as one of the 4 last bosses though!

[sly shore]

idk rogue was also fucking cracked on that fight

for prog

for like 2 weeks

[somber sun]

did it get nerf after the 2 weeks ?

or people figured out how to play their new specs

[sly shore]

timings changed which meant 1.5m wasn't as good

[lilac stag]

They could have ran the entire RWF without a rogue.

here’s your dagger boss.

https://tenor.com/view/donald-duck-please-beg-daisy-duck-heres-a-penny-gif-9204998

[sage pond]

TIL swapping from human to panda was 800 dps for me lol

[reef walrus]

at the start you could send cd's on pull, at the end of p1, on first platform, on second platform and then on the damage amp

but damage kept increasing so you had to start holding cooldowns and skip uses

[somber sun]

rip

[normal wadi]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[reef walrus]

my last kills I think I just danced once or maybe twice on the second platform and just sat on blades for a minute

very fun

[warm marlin]

ye but dk is also a 1.5m

[lilac stag]

grip good
atrophic mid

[warm marlin]

oh u were referring to dimensius

idk we held cds for a long time anyway

[reef walrus]

wdym, they rioted because grip is not a real raid buff

[warm marlin]

sub was still insane on that fight when I killed it

[lilac stag]

they also don’t have any m+ utility

[warm marlin]

i think watching even wr500 guilds they were still holding for timings

[lilac stag]

Someone living in the past.

[warm marlin]

certainly wasnt only the first 2 weeks

[reef walrus]

apart from being able to tank mechanics just by using their face

[lilac stag]

also very bad mobility.

[abstract vapor]

How much should I really hold finishers until 5+ shadow tech stacks in m+? I assume no on trash, but maybe ST bosses?

[reef walrus]

couldn't imagine only having 2 charges of a 10 second 100% movement speed increase that makes me immune to knockback 😄

[sly shore]

you don't?

[alpine wraith]

dont worry guys we were very good in mother shahraz!

[sly shore]

idk where you got that from

[alpine wraith]

totally not living in the past

[sly shore]

you play around how many stacks you have at the time under very specific conditions

but not waiting

[alpine wraith]

and hey even on kael thas they needed someone to take the mc off!

[sly shore]

[reef walrus]

you're living in the future, ssc has only just been released!

[alpine wraith]

maybe he got confused with DS min maxes

in m+ we play trickster

[sly shore]

seems so

[ripe flame]

Did you know laura on p4 has melee range and that you just can't hit wherever? Well I didn't had a tragic first kill

[sly shore]

yes

[alpine wraith]

you ran into some mobs eh

that is the rite of passage of p4

[abstract vapor]

Sorry referring to this portion of rotation

Try to not finish a few seconds before you're gonna enter Shadow Dance to save up some extra Shadow Techniques stacks.

[warm marlin]

i noticed our first time getting there that my spells were not castable!

[sly shore]

a few seconds is like 3s

so just don't spend before you dance

that's all

you're not holding for a specific amount of stacks

just dance when you should

[shut dawn]

is there a general guideline re: pots? my ST sim wants reckless abandon but M+ sim wants recklessness... ive just been use light's potential

[sly shore]

#subtlety-faq has a pot part

[shut dawn]

ok thx

[warm marlin]

I would not use reckless abandon

[ripe flame]

Sad part is I didn't I think in our movement we went too into the back of the room and was tiptoeing the melee range the whole time

At least it died but fuck

Was on track for a banger parse

[hazy breach]

Ye reckless abandon is not the play, even though it sims higher, because the sim doesnt take into account the silence pools it spawns

[sly shore]

that silence pool is so hilariously toxic

using that shit in beta was a joke

[alpine wraith]

it still can be so funny

i use it sometimes in m+

[hazy breach]

And at this point if you have some decent gear its fine (ie within margin) to use recklessness even on ST, as long as you dont get haste from it

[somber sun]

soft inting runs

[swift tinsel]

this tier

and exile said he should have been sat for another unholy dk

so realistically 4/4

[reef walrus]

oh you mean the final 4 bosses in this tier

that was not how I read that at all, sorry

[warm marlin]

in on chim and vorasius and then sat until beloren (resat because "sub didnt have enough burst") then in on lura (should have played another dk instead)

[reef walrus]

yeah I mean rogue was just not in a good spot at the start of this tier

[swift tinsel]

its good damage now, but that doesn't address the core issue

being the raid buff situation

[fair stump]

wdym atrophic poison is a fantastic raid buff /s

[crystal bone]

when it works

[warm marlin]

worked on every fight this tier

[reef walrus]

they should bring back atrophic poison stacking

and make it additive instead of multiplicative this time!

[sullen hare]

You can always put your thoughts in this forum post that blizzard will completely ignore definitely is monitoring

#subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

for both raid and m+, dps-increasing buff > atro

[lilac stag]

we’re a dps spec. idgaf about dmg reduction as raid utility (nor does anyone else)

[swift tinsel]

exactly

[timid rose]

i want my presence to help everybody master their class better... and maybe encourage other melee to hit more often... perhaps call it Sky Flurry.

[swift tinsel]

to go from having a raid buff that was crit to a damage reduction is just weird

[timid rose]

as a former feral main, when they too lotp away it felt so bad, why is there no crit chance buff anymore

[swift tinsel]

idk its odd

no crit or haste raid buff

meanwhile sham gets mastery and auto attack proc

[fair stump]

Rogue used to give crit as a raid buff, didn't we?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[sullen hare]

Yeah in like wod lol

[left ledge]

SWIFTBLADE'S CUNNING

[reef walrus]

my non meme suggestion for raid buffs would be to just have extra availability of all existing damage buffs (and maybe reduce the amount of buffs), so just give rogue a 3% magic damage taken debuff or something as well

[left ledge]

it was attack speed

i dont think it was crit

but maybe im wrong

[reef walrus]

and then add some very small (smaller than atrophic) damage reductions or utility to every class

give dk's horn of winter as an alternative for battle shout for example

[celest spruce]

there should be a way to sim in raidbots with the requirement of having at least 700 haste 😛

its so annoying having to fiddle around and do some guess work

[swift tinsel]

HaT used to give crit at one point

[timid rose]

change war / monk to be phys damage dealt, dh / mage to be magic damage dealt, give rogues a grip to compete with dk

[random mason]

Just dont let the sim swap pieced with haste

[swift tinsel]

oddly enough Swiftblade's gave haste too

and multistrike

so we had both the missing secondary buffs at one point lol

now no one gets either

[celest spruce]

I dont think thats possible with the gems right, like I need to know if crit or mastery sims best. To my knowledge its not possible to do that without letting it exclude haste right

[graceful rock]

DKs get haste next tier, we get crit easy

[swift tinsel]

dk gets nothing

[reef walrus]

sub giving a haste % buff right now would be a pretty cruel joke though

[swift tinsel]

they've been babied too long

[graceful rock]

True

[swift tinsel]

so very on brand for blizz

[random mason]

Dont let it swap gem either then

[graceful rock]

But having enforced grips on every fight is gonna get old real fast

[random mason]

But from me simming crit vs mastery rings its the same

[swift tinsel]

if they give dk a legitimate traditional raid buff they'd need to prune some of their ridiculous utility

[random mason]

All i do is run crit flask for raid apart from Dragons and Vanguard(when i get there) and mastery everywhere else

[swift tinsel]

am I better off just tunneling boss on dragons, assuming ranged is awake for adds

[lean arrow]

Is Sub much easier to play now?

[swift tinsel]

we're starting mythic tonight

[lean arrow]

or i mean how much easier is it to play now?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[lean arrow]

Havent played rogue in awhile so was curious lol

[timid rose]

if i can do sub now, it's def easy enough 🙂

[swift tinsel]

pretty much all specs got simplified across the board going into midnight, sub is definitely one that was simplified more than others

by virute of being perceived as more complicated than a lot of others pre-midnight reworks

[sullen hare]

Sub got its complexity taken out back and made to suck downa shotgun

[swift tinsel]

I miss being an all-in on burst spec

[timid rose]

i feel like WW got more complex, or something about it I just didn't like the change of from TWW, which is why i was fishing around for a new main this season

[swift tinsel]

lust-agnostic burst cleave machine

[lean arrow]

Good to know ty

[loud wharf]

Back in Cata, Assassination rogue was 8% magic damage taken debuff on mobs poisoned. Sub rogues gave 5% crit with Honor among Thieves.

Combat was combat and didnt provide a debuff.

[hallow mortar]

good old days when blizz did not hate us

[loud wharf]

No idea where we lost our group buff/debuffs but not having fuck all now except DR poison feels SO bad

[swift tinsel]

yep

iirc sub lost hat crit from cata to mop

[sharp lake]

Is there a reason that Shiv doesn’t apply a concentrated Atrophic Poison?

[loud wharf]

< Coming from classic to retail. Retail is omega fun probably wont go back. But Cata Rogue was

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505

Sub was a lil chalked, but still fun to play.

[abstract vapor]

should i use voidcore on crafted offhand too?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

should eventually have all four slots voidcore'd

[timid rose]

yes, but it's lowest prio

[sullen hare]

Well yes but off hand is at the very end

[abstract vapor]

thanks

[lilac stag]

No

Guidon is actually lower. They’re very close.

[swift tinsel]

should update the pin then

[lilac stag]

I don’t run the pins

you can also just

[timid rose]

it was within a margin of error guidon vs offhand with guidon being slightly higher for me when I did it

[lilac stag]

none of it really matters

[timid rose]

that's 230 gold you have sitting there 😄

[lilac stag]

Maybe I get 1H for dw frost

[left ledge]

because shiv is a low cooldown and empowering a DR effect would make it an overpowered raid cd

you would just have 2-3 rogues rotating shivs with atrophic

permanently

wouldnt be fun

[obsidian dome]

for puzzle box, assuming m+ pulls, in stealth. Do you A: shadowstrike, cast puzzle or do you B: cast puzzlebox, restealth(if possible/if not shadowstep) shadowstrike?

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1483995021903396994/puzzlebox.gif?ex=6a1054d0&is=6a0f0350&hm=dc245a1e7f92ae78165d57df2f9b0a2a8ac3ca7d5ff4272358143daf22da73de&

[obsidian dome]

LOL

[shadow lance]

Any DS enjoyer here? Wanted to know if you send second sec tech in SB or not

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel plate belts do not exist.

[swift tinsel]

crafting time

[grim wasp]

so we got nothing to do until august except this filler raid?

[timid rose]

seems like... i'll get some POE2 time in 😄

[shadow lance]

Cuz sim doesn't and prefer hold for next dance

[random mason]

yeah all I'm waiting for at this point

like another week of rolling in AA and i should have the ring

then it's raid log only

[timid rose]

I just need omission of light and i'm done gearing my rogue, not gunna bother chasing pit pants over the ones i crafted because i'm lazy

and they're good enough 😄

[loud wharf]

You're probably building and spending on pull until everything is grouped.

[neat jackal]

Hey guys im a returning player.. Which sub guide should i read out of the 3?

[loud wharf]

Then Cast puzzlebox > CDs

[random mason]

i could try and grab that too

[lilac stag]

Been trying to avoid. Oh well. We craft.

[random mason]

already have light on mythic and void on hero

if i recraft weapon and wrists i could fit it

[timid rose]

yeah i got void from vault a while ago, and then got another one from bonus roll... love it 😄

[small sleet]

Playing m+ for gear so you can raid log when you could be playing raid for gear so you can m+ log

[random mason]

i got 3.4k, if I get the itch to do more i will

3550 def possible

huge 0.6% if i grab the set

on full ST

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin foreverfist at 273 going crazy in these 13s

[west arch]

I have a question: I have the mythic Vorasius dagger, the mythic Pit dagger, and the mythic Celestial Reach dagger. Which one do you recommend spending to get 298?

[warm marlin]

you inspired me to probably level a ww

[random mason]

the one that helps you hit the haste cap

[warm marlin]

that spec does randomly get stacked every few tiers huh

[lucid jackal]

I can't tell if its because I'm shit

But like

[random mason]

how fun is monk these days

[lucid jackal]

You just kinda press buttons

Its fun

U just freeflow everything

[swift tinsel]

nah that's ww

as long as you don't press the same one twice

you're vibin

[warm marlin]

idk wasnt it perma channeling fists as of recent

[swift tinsel]

it has a really nice flow minus the long FoF channel

[random mason]

hmm might try that as a dps/tank alt

[swift tinsel]

ye that's still a thing

[lucid jackal]

FOF is literally all of ur damage

and its like a sub 15 second cooldown

so I mean

If you hate killing spree

[swift tinsel]

ye true its very ks-esque that way

[lucid jackal]

Imagine if KS did damage, but it was literally all of your damage

thats what WW is

This is my overall

Flurry strikes is also FOF btw

[warm marlin]

better than double aoe tod

[swift tinsel]

FFG was so annoying I hated it

my wish is for bigger rsk aoe stuff

[random mason]

monk plays literally the same build in M+ and raid

[swift tinsel]

over fof

[shrewd lantern]

i mean so does sub

[swift tinsel]

like I want Skyfire Heel to be what nimble was

[shrewd lantern]

swapping a finality pt for pp is barely a change

[random mason]

no i swap one point ok

[swift tinsel]

big banger cleave

[random mason]

it's very different

[winged shore]

I’ve been alting stormbringer enh shaman. Nice change of pace from sub since it is so reactive. Very fun right now imo and damage in keys is good. Hitting 160-170 overall in ~14’s

[lucid jackal]

But yeah idk

If u dont hate FOF, ww is fun'

[swift tinsel]

if they clipped like 1.5sec off the usual channel duration I'd be a big fan

[shrewd lantern]

is zenith stomp like

a non dogshit version of the nf ability

[swift tinsel]

bc the rest of the gameplay is really fun

no

it used to be

[lucid jackal]

I mean WW would need like a massive energy fix then if FOF was a lower channel

[swift tinsel]

but now its just a button you press during zenith that does a stomp

[lucid jackal]

Ud be more AFK than you already are sometimes

[shrewd lantern]

long fof channels are cool

swap the spotify playlist

mid channel

[swift tinsel]

I think that'd be fine, to give a bit higher energy regen or lower tp cost a lil bit

[shrewd lantern]

The only good monk cov ability

that didnt make it to the main tree

was weapons of order

[lucid jackal]

but yeah

WW is fun

its also randomly broken and doesn't get nerfed

And our entire guild has like, 1 WW player, who also is a ranged DPS main so we'd rather he stays the broken position yk

[shrewd lantern]

i feel ww was ignored for so long

that community forgets

it can be good

[lucid jackal]

I also just want to say, the more I play other classes the more I realize rogue players need to get a fucking grip

Bro

You can't kick, or use any defensive during FOF

and FOF is literally your entire DPS

At least if you cancel KS its doing 2 damage

[shrewd lantern]

I would agree if dk didnt exist though

[lucid jackal]

Like bro

[shrewd lantern]

dk is kind of

[lucid jackal]

And also, WW IS FUCKING PAPER

BRO I HAVE KARMA AND BREW AND THATS IT

VIVIFY HEALS ME FOR 10K

[warm marlin]

ye we have a ww otp but it seems like it does become a multiple of decently often

[lucid jackal]

I HAVE 400K LIFE

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH????

[swift tinsel]

lol vivify healing

[swift tinsel]

hasn't been good since torghast power that made it scale and do big dmg

[lucid jackal]

Rogue players saying shit like "Vial is so bad"

Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[shrewd lantern]

i mean sub is pretty tanky as long as you forget

dk exists

[swift tinsel]

I mean sub can be tanky at the same time that dk is

[shrewd lantern]

enhance is also like that

[warm marlin]

what does rogue have against obelisk dot on alleria huh guy?

[swift tinsel]

just not as tanky bc nothing is

[shrewd lantern]

"oh i actually cant stand in shit"

[warm marlin]

riddle me this

[lucid jackal]

Crimson vial

Unequip cheat death

[warm marlin]

unequip cheat death

[shrewd lantern]

havoc still

the most sleeper melee of the season

[keen dome]

Just look the dot in the face and tell it "I'm stronger than you"

[shrewd lantern]

the fastest way to get an external in comms

[lilac stag]

@lucid jackal I see you

[shrewd lantern]

the classic "im dead" comm

[lucid jackal]

LOLOL

[swift tinsel]

fuckin blasted

[warm marlin]

if you really think about it, 3 vivifies takes about the same time as vial to heal and should be about the same hp

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[lucid jackal]

I'm actually getting juiced

[hollow spear]

I'm not sure if dk has been mentioned in this conversation, just wanted to sure

[lucid jackal]

3 globals vs 1 global

[gusty wharf]

What’s ww like in raid ?

[swift tinsel]

strong

[keen dome]

They should let us vanish the dot

[warm marlin]

just lose 90 energy bruh

[swift tinsel]

big burst bois

[warm marlin]

nbd

[lucid jackal]

If it wasn't a 0 melee tier then WW would be god

IT was probs the best DPS on beloren for melee DPS anyway

But who had a WW preped lol

[lilac stag]

I can't convert crests yet since I dont have a heroic ring or bracers

[hollow spear]

Imagine playing melee

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i mean rogue's biggest downside is conventionally

You're playing a melee

with a non mandatory buff

That's really it

[lucid jackal]

I mean not conventionally

Melee has been stronger than ranged for like 6 years

This is the first time melee has been this bad

[warm marlin]

I think you can argue sub was better

[lucid jackal]

IF you knew all the juice

[lilac stag]

this was the first tier in awhile where melee was really fucked at times

[warm marlin]

yes

[lucid jackal]

Which lke, maybe 1% of sub players knew

[warm marlin]

even if you didnt having an immune and being able to do all the soaks is nice

even if ww was still a bit higher damage

[lucid jackal]

Yeah thats probs true

[warm marlin]

did you know dk can also do every soak easily

i learned this on our reclear this week

when they made me do it

[shrewd lantern]

anti mechanic shell

[lilac stag]

i need a redrogue pov from your reclear

[shrewd lantern]

is a hell of a button

[lilac stag]

i may actually be in on DK lol

[warm marlin]

im legit still the mechanic guy on beloren

but im just tankier

[lilac stag]

which is what i'll be

[shrewd lantern]

did you not do balls

on rogue

or can you ams horse through multiple on dk

[warm marlin]

oh ye i did do that

hm

i was afraid it would break my ams and im saving it for soaks

i didnt look at the timers too closely

[shrewd lantern]

just tank it with ibf lich

[warm marlin]

idk or we can just soaks the orbs

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

Always some pepega that dies if you dont have immunes mass clear

[warm marlin]

someone dies during convergence

oh well

egg has 20 more seconds than prog and we have 10 more ilvl anyway

nbd

[shrewd lantern]

mostly meant the post egg groups

[warm marlin]

ye the one right after first egg

thats the one i cloak

[shrewd lantern]

yeah ig you cant do that on dk

dont think ams holds up

[warm marlin]

convergence + orb will break it surely

either we game or we lose 1-2 people

[solemn patrol]

[warm marlin]

egg will mega die anyway

[shrewd lantern]

I think people got overly used to immune clears

that they die without it

[lucid jackal]

Having 2 charges of ur CD is fun tho

[warm marlin]

wtb 2 charges of ar

[swift tinsel]

best we can do is preparation

this is making me want to gear my ww now lol

[lucid jackal]

gearing mega fast

[swift tinsel]

I have plenty of warbound gear in vault plus champ gamble from marl