subtlety

[tribal blade]

for some reason

[peak ice]

Is your game just a bunch of panther sounds

[cunning goblet]

should i upgrade my hero gaze/guidon or upgrade my off hand crafted weapon 2nd

already upgraded main hand

[peak ice]

They’re pretty much the same I. Sims

[red flame]

Not sure how track affects the order but it should be MH > Gaze > OH > Guidon (assuming they’re all equal ilv, again idk how diff tracks change that order)

[upbeat cradle]

you should sim yourself

but upgrading guidon and offhand were around the same % for me

0.5-0.6%

upgrading mythic guidon was 0.8 tho

[void ocean]

do we know whats the total amount of haste value we r after

cause i assume upgrading from hc to 298 guidon would give us some lever on removing a bit base haste, or that would hinder our dance outside of blades?

[marble sail]

wc2 seal is way better

[thorn sundial]

is it 7 or 8 gcds we want in shadowdance no trinket trickster about 700 haste?

[marble sail]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[thorn sundial]

700 haste is that counting oils or before oils are applied?

[marble sail]

with all buffs

[red flame]

Counting oils

[crude cloak]

what pin do u guys have for the helpful sub addons i cant seem to find it

[placid crown]

Playing with 643 haste (with guidon, and all buff applied), and it feels ok : I have the time to do the good number of attacks in a dance even if a coup is casted.

[plucky moon]

Is this fine for sub guys?

Or i need to pump up something more?

[crude cloak]

does coup take prio over powder in aoe

[robust saddle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tame notch]

% is useless u need 1050-1100 mastery then rest go crit and always 700+- haste with guideon at least thats what simmed best for me

[short radish]

damn i only have 839 mastery. it's so jover for me

[tame notch]

Damn

Can i see your sim?

[hazy breach]

Time to delete rogue

[short radish]

no, i dont listen to clankers

[hazy breach]

[tame notch]

Hah fair enough

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9fdH9nUmnFSejaTGBpPMjE

here are my stat weights

[tame notch]

Yeah mastery goes harder but the diff isnt big between our sims

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wG9q6iFrWRuv5CASyBC6vo

[tribal blade]

yeah but how much % haste is that

[old lynx]

heroic guidon worth using a void shard on?

i did my mh dont know what to do next

[lilac stag]

You can sim it.

Void shards are free. Just use them.

[plucky moon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rtJYgjAUaChcRgpSAm4CnU

This is my sim

I get okay logs for kill my for my ilvl is green

And i duno why, prob im shit i gues

[cursive tundra]

is there a website or something that has info on which enemy has truesight in dungeons?

mdt used to show

but it doesn't anymore

[hazy breach]

Generally any large lieutenant style mob has truesight, with the exception of the whirlwind/smash dragons at the end of academy

[tribal blade]

MDT should show

[hazy breach]

It does but it's inaccurate

[tribal blade]

i did notice that

[tribal blade]

i think the mobs before the 3rd boss in seat also don't have truesight iirc

you can shroud past them

[hazy breach]

I thought they did have truesight

[tribal blade]

i remember shrouding past them at the start of the season

unless my memory is completely kaput

or maybe it was on the beta... and then they changed it

can't remember

[vagrant fossil]

They have truesight now

But you can skip them by jumping past to their left

Without stealth

[tribal blade]

damn i dunno why i have a recent memory of shrouding past them

[vagrant fossil]

I got to watch Zac and his team doing the skip so highly doubt they are shroudable

[small sleet]

They added truesight onto those mobs shortly after the season started. For the first little while you could shroud past them. I think they were intended to always have truesight but it got forgotten or something

[alpine wraith]

meanwhile those mobs you can mc

to do bazillion dmg

[small sleet]

The mobs you mc on first boss are pulsing and hitting all the out of combat mobs in the area, whose health resets because they’re not in combat. I don’t think the amount of damage they provide is actually that substantial but I’ve never gone back and looked at a log to see

[lean sigil]

First day alleria today, do we save cds for anything or just send? Also and tips and tricks to do good dmg?

[dusky yacht]

Wait for cds until stacks are up on mini boss

[lean sigil]

How manu stacks?

[dusky yacht]

5-10 I guess

[lean sigil]

Blast after first blobs?

[dusky yacht]

I mean it depends how fast your raid can get them stacked

[lean sigil]

No idea first pull today

[dusky yacht]

Then you'll have to figure it out when you're there, your RL will probably say something about it

[placid crown]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lean sigil]

Guess there Will be 2x cds so same for both on minis?

And after that just on cd?

[placid crown]

Guys, do we still strike twice with specific conditions to proc the apex or not ? When i check the rota from best sim from fuu's sheet, there is never 2 strikes in a row

[upbeat cradle]

that's because

on trickster

most of the time

you get the apex anyways

whenever you press dance

[placid crown]

well no

when the cp refills automatically, the apex does not proc

[small sleet]

There’s no instances where your cp refill automatically and you have a supercharged combo point left in sims

[placid crown]

But in practice it happens lot of time

[small sleet]

in which case you do shadowstrike again to proc apex on supercharged combo points

[naive zodiac]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[small sleet]

The more likely scenario is that you just don’t have enough sht stacks to proc apex on your second supercharged combo point. Like you hit shadow dance and sectech, then hit shadowstrike but don’t have enough sht stacks to proc it

[placid crown]

At pull : 2 super cp, strike, blades+dance+sectec (at this point you still have 3 super cp), strike (generally procs the apex), evis, cp refills alone -> then next you still have 2 super cp and can evis or strike again to make the apex procs.

[dreamy root]

ive wondered the same thing, i noticed on alot of top logs these guys never double shadowstrike

[tepid trellis]

answer is many

[naive zodiac]

[small sleet]

Yeah this happens but sims don’t pre stack supercharged combo points

[tepid trellis]

not unless you force it with custom apl

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[small sleet]

Generally having to double shadowstrike is a sign of getting unlucky, which means it will appear less in the top logs as getting a top parse requires good luck on top of skill

[vale pine]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_1,first=0,cooldown=999999
raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_2,first=0,cooldown=999999```

^ to add 2 superchargers pre pull

where to put it?

[rotund hedge]

@vale pine my 🐐 , is there much difference with going crit or mastery after getting the 700 haste? Should I just go whichever is higher ilevel? I don't trust sims no more

[small sleet]

You can trust the sims lmao

[vale pine]

when god asked how many bugs subtlety should get, the rogue dev was sadly absent.

[rotund hedge]

But it's always trying to lower my haste so

[tepid trellis]

generally speaking ilvl tends to win out if its significant enough of a jump in ilvl

[vale pine]

you want to balance both out, slightly more mastery maybe. But sims should generally work well

[small sleet]

Yeah ignore that part, the sim isn’t wrong about lowering your haste being higher dps, but it doesn’t account for the human factors that make it extremely difficult to reproduce

[rotund hedge]

Yeah I more so mean when it's picking items that will lower my haste way too much vs other items

[vale pine]

The sim is more optimistic about human error

I think its an interessting conversation tho

because inherently, we don't rly have data on how well people of difrent skill levels are able to fit globals into shadow dance

[placid crown]

If we pre-cast, aren't we like machines ?

[vale pine]

the problem is the first cast

and well the last

lets say shadow dance has 8.2 sec duration

this means you have 0.2 sec of time for the 9th cast

if you now cast dance and secret (or storm) manually

you introduce a small delay

now this might be 0.1 sec

or 0.3

if its 0.1

you possibly be able to hit the last gcd

if its 0.3

you already lost it

now its even more complex than that

[placid crown]

But if your first cast is the macro dance+sectec ? no delay

[vale pine]

because there are many other factors included

[placid crown]

Or our internet ping has an impact ?

[small sleet]

Even with spell queuing and macros, you lose a small amount of time on each global, I assume due to technological limitations

And by small I mean really really small

[vale pine]

basically, your input lag.
This can depend on your hardware

[upbeat cradle]

brain fart lag

[vale pine]

e.g. if you use a bluetooth keyboard, the polling rate is fairly low, so you already have up to 50ms latency

means, you might already lose half of the 0.1 sec only from how long it takes for your keyboard press to register to the computer knowing that

and thats only one part of the entire chain

[warm marlin]

there is no keyboard input lag with proper

Sqw

there is a slight game delay at times but you can mostly play like a robot

[vale pine]

but you can typically put it in 3 categories:

• Input lag (how long it takes for your hardware input to register)
• Human error rate (Human reaction time)
• Latency (How fast your internet connection is, so ping as well as server tick rates)

spell quque window does allow you to queue up spells in advanced

It for sure can reduce parts of the chain above

Which is why i don't understand peoples desire to reduce the sqw to very low settings

[vale pine]

To add to the above

there are bugs in game too

coup de grace still has a higher gcd

which means you lose 0.2 sec from this alone

one thing to keep in mind is, that even experienced players sometimes lost a gcd during shadow dance in TWW season 3

this was due to double casts of coup de grace

this still means the combined extra gcd was only 0.4 sec

would math out to a reduction of dance duration from 8 sec to 7.6 sec to fit 8 gcds

[warm marlin]

Macro to start dance also wasn’t common during this time

think it was mostly me and a few others pushing it

[vale pine]

it wasn't as common, because the problem was not similarly big

[placid crown]

Well what i see in practice is that with an amount of haste leading to +1.26sec of dance with deepening shadows, I can get 7 GCD under dance, while with oils R1 leading to +1.32sec of dance, i can put that 8th GCD. Playing with bluetooth keyboard.

[vale pine]

0.6 sec of room of error is higher than 0.2-0.4 sec

[warm marlin]

If you hit quad coup in blades it was 0.2s to not drop in blades

So similar but longer timeframe

[vale pine]

but it's, i think, a good example, how human error rate might be easy to underestimate

[placid crown]

Adding to my last message: 8 gcds reached with 1 coup in one of these 8 gcds

[hazy breach]

Ye and sims already account for this

[warm marlin]

I played 630 haste on my split alt a while and hit a majority of dances correctly which is like 0.1s leeway I think

It’s playable for sure

[small sleet]

Is it a consistent number across all people though? Or is the sim leaning on the higher end of what automatic extra delay you might expect

[placid crown]

do you guys fit 9gcd with 700 haste ? (during a basic dance, not the first one, and without guidon up)

[vale pine]

it is latency dependent to a degree

[hazy breach]

Its 8 outside guidon

[vale pine]

having a higher ping makes it harder to hit all globals

[hazy breach]

~7.4s is 8 gcd

[hazy breach]

It varies around 4-6 Ms, which is roughly the unpreventable delays when playing

[plush roost]

Dance stab macro my beloved

[placid crown]

So, If i understand well, if we were all in the most precise optimization, we would all have an amount of haste depending on our material, just enough to get the 8th gcd and then max other stats as mastery or crit.

[vale pine]

i mean you can still macro it

and press the macro 2 times

[small sleet]

Gotcha thanks

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin imagine needing dance macros

[vale pine]

XD

[warm marlin]

im gonna start spamming bring back tww3 sub like tokin

[lilac stag]

not bad for delves and ritual sites

[vale pine]

true

is that your hunter?

[lucid jackal]

I was just thinking this channel wasn't as annoying as Outlaw. Glad you are going to fix that problem

[warm marlin]

np mate

[lilac stag]

i mean he spent 2 weeks in outlaw

[warm marlin]

ill do it in outlaw too for crackshot and old rtb

[lilac stag]

about all it takes to corrupt

[plush roost]

Keep this sub, make apex sec tec function, add a talent that rewards pooling. Make goremaws great. Make the other 2 capstonea actually alter gameplay not "more damage lol" and we have a cook

Tww sub is never coming back

[graceful osprey]

And make Gloomblade baseline and replace backstab

[warm marlin]

and you need to fix the sectec cd stuff

and 90s should be stronger

and the haste stuff is real bad

[plush roost]

Dark brew should enhance shadowblades in some way

[warm marlin]

and revert nimble

[graceful osprey]

What if haste also extended our defensive cds and utility cds

[plush roost]

"Your instant or wound poison applications extend blades by X seconds"

To keep it db thematic

[warm marlin]

just think what it will play like next season without 4p and guidon

[vale pine]

the user you refer to has quite some messages in outlaw too ^^

[small sleet]

i can just imagine a blizzard dev reading this right now and thinking "wow this is a bunch of great feedback, im gonna take away perma tricks from trickster and not make it baseline instead of their ideas though"

[warm marlin]

rookie numbers

[graceful osprey]

Blizzard is reverting sub back to hemo spam

[vale pine]

ye, i mean...

[plush roost]

I wouldnt complain if perma tricks was replaced with a mobility node ngl

[lucid jackal]

am I the only one who likes rogue

[plush roost]

Perma tricks insane crutch

[small sleet]

i like rogue, i dont have any problems with current sub tbh

[plush roost]

Trickster has no mobility talents reminder!

Wheres my 2x shadow step or grappling like fatebound reee

[vale pine]

The easy solution to it is to round deepening to the next natural number, removing the punishment for human error and giving players enough buffer to hit the last gcd

[graceful osprey]

I like rogue. I don’t mind the current sub but I would like more to it. As I’ve always said, good baseline I think

[warm marlin]

i will try not to be one of those guys who just hangs around nostalgiaposting forever when i leave

[vale pine]

it would mean 7.1 sec -> 0.1 sec to fit your last gcd

would become
8 sec -> 1 sec to fit your last gcd

[tribal vortex]

But then won't we go for 8.1? 😂

[vale pine]

we would

it would not change the outcome

[plush roost]

Well it would round down in that instance no?

[vale pine]

we atm stack haste to the value we can comfortably hit the last gcd in dance

which is around 0.3-0.5 extra sec

adding more haste than that has no effect before we get 1 full extra sec

always rounding it to the full number, would just mean slightly difrent haste values

[tribal vortex]

The outcome is the same no? But instead of going to 7.5 we would target the 8.1 breakpoint

[vale pine]

but in terms of the end result give you the same

just that you don't need a macro

[plush roost]

Yes but then said breakpoint would have lenience i see the vision

[warm marlin]

you'd go to 7.5 but it would give you 8s which would make it much easier to play

[small sleet]

either way half the posts in this discord would be haste questions

[vale pine]

and new palyers won't be punished as they have enough extra time to fit gcds

[tribal vortex]

you'd go to 7.1

[vale pine]

^

[tribal vortex]

Yeah maybe it's ok

[vale pine]

just always round it up

[warm marlin]

sure

[tribal vortex]

Cringe haste breakpoints but at least not as cringe

[vale pine]

as any in between i feel

can end up introducing in betweens

because technically

the correct way to measure haste right now

is to go to the dummy

and see just how much you can cut

while staying consistent

so you don't spend even 1 point too much

[plush roost]

I still think that if they wanted to haste tax they should have just made deepening max out at 7 seconds and excess haste is converted to mastery no more breakpoints or feelsbadmans

[vale pine]

i think haste interactions are inconsistent

why does deepening not benefit from bloodlust

while secret technique does

ofc. for anyone who spends a lot of time reading up on things

this might not be a problem

but midnight comes with the promise of making things easier

[small sleet]

tfd with pi and lust leading to a 20 second shadow dance would be kinda hilarious

[vale pine]

i think its good to some degree

because it means we don't need to fight for pi and other shananigans

[warm marlin]

it already be 18s with reck pot and guidon

[vale pine]

but bloodlust is now worth less than it was before

and we now have 2 spells which technically should add value to haste

[small sleet]

oh god lmao

[vale pine]

the benefit of bloodlust should also be felt in gameplay

*gameplay

which, i would argue is not the case atm

[plush roost]

I remember full hasting on beta and during lust sec tec was up and tfd waa still 3 seconds to go kekw

[warm marlin]

the full haste tickle the enemies build

[plush roost]

I got all the way to 3.5k haste with pot guidon hahaha

Yea zero dps build

[small sleet]

i feel like if blizzard really wanted haste to be relevant on energy classes, they'd need to take another look at how haste affects energy regen, and probably also have haste have an effect on our gcd

[warm marlin]

they can very simply do the ww treatment

[plush roost]

I pray that never happens lowkey

[warm marlin]

but also bring back vers

amen

[plush roost]

1 sec gcds have a vibe

[lilac stag]

break even more stuff?

[plush roost]

Or 0.8

If ur a pirate

[warm marlin]

I like 1s gcd

[lucid jackal]

Nah I think its really healthy to just fucking hate the game, and spend all your free time in a discord talking about that fact

[plush roost]

So true besty anyone else fucking despise warcraft orcs vs humans? Can i get a zugzug?

[warm marlin]

my dh hit the 2 remaining tier slots he needed on myth track out of my 2 rolls in MC

[lucid jackal]

My monk went to a heroic to get voidshards

Went from 212 to 260

[warm marlin]

2x vaelgors dropped on my heroic clear

both were won by warlocks with 298 feather and heart

and they both asked for money for it

[plush roost]

We live in a society

[lucid jackal]

we had 2 gaze and a plume go to just random ppl we invited lol

[hazy breach]

I love that I could level an alt and get it to 290 but my main can't

[warm marlin]

bis gear strat is truly to keep levelling new characters until they giga hit on bonus rolls

[hazy breach]

Because I don't have an alt for discounts and I "wasted" crests upgrading weapon+trinket

[barren haven]

And still u don’t get invited on alt because of rio while your main sits on 3gigillion rio

[hollow vessel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[vale pine]

great system ^^

[lilac stag]

It likely has people playing way more at this point in the season than normally they would have. so maybe for blizz it is? idk

[lucid jackal]

I think gearing in the game has never been better

[vale pine]

I think bonus rolls are great

[warm marlin]

true

[vale pine]

i do think the crest system has its problems

but being behind because of system design seems like a minor problem, which does not matter for most

[lilac stag]

it would be less of a problem without the dual wield tax

[vale pine]

it is just a systematic issue

you could just refund the tokens and stabalize it

but any problem like this just has not a big enough blast radius to see major reworks

[small sleet]

only issue i have with the crest system this tier is the fact that you "save" myth crests by fully upgrading a hero track piece first. feels really odd to me

[hazy breach]

Yes same with the other ones too

[lilac stag]

it’s just their layering of ilvl loot

[hazy breach]

But they're not as relevant

[lilac stag]

idk I wouldn’t touch an alt if it wasn’t for crest discount

[hazy breach]

Maxed hc should be 1/6 myth

[small sleet]

agreed

[hazy breach]

Or you should be able to upgrade to 2/6 for hc crests, but that's confusing

[vale pine]

it's most likely a "first iteration" problem

maybe they change it in s2

[brisk raptor]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[brisk raptor]

if you're about to have cds and you're sitting on full combo points with 5+ stacks of st is it worth to proc apex before pressing cds so you don't lose a gcd in cds?

[small sleet]

no that has no effect because of a bug with premeditation

[vale pine]

its fine to have aa up for the first secret

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts clone cannot proc while Premeditation is up, as you are not expending any Shadow Technique stacks. This is not really a bug, just an unfortunate interaction.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[vale pine]

^ that too

[small sleet]

its not something you have to avoid, but there's no benefit to trying to have aa up for your cds

[brisk raptor]

so as long as you're using st with a supercharged combo point you really don't need to worry about it. better to just worry about it on other finishers?

[vale pine]

the aa optimization is as following

you start dance, then you use secret (macro)

after that you will strike

and evaluate weather or not it makes sense to press another strike

which is basically "is aa up?"

you should have enough stacks to proc aa always at this point

[brisk raptor]

at this point would there still be a supercharged combo point?

[vale pine]

especially given that you stop using finishers shortly before secret comes off cd, so you can use it immidiatly

[small sleet]

i swear there are so many times where i use a second shadowstrike and my sht stacks just stall out for like 3 seconds and i end up looking like a fool

[vale pine]

you get 2 supercharger points from dance

the first one is used with secret

the 2nd one is what the optimization is all about

[lilac stag]

For me the bigger problem was the rate of gear acquisition / crest cap

[vale pine]

try to do what i mentioned

[lilac stag]

having 2-3 pieces you just can’t do anything with just meh

[vale pine]

if secret cd is 3-5 sec left

stop using finishers

[small sleet]

yeah this only happens to me on boss pull

[brisk raptor]

ohhhh i understand what you mean, sorry i thought you meant strike and get aa, then finish, then use strike to proc aa again. i now see

[vale pine]

you generate sht stacks from auto attacks this way

fair

pull might differ

[brisk raptor]

when you're waiting during those 3-5 sec if you're going to cap on energy do you just backstab to not waste energy?

[vale pine]

but you usually should have sht stacks for it too

you can use builder

just not finisher

the problem from using finishers is

it takes time for you to build up combo points again

and this time is time you delay your cooldowns

[brisk raptor]

makes perfect sense, thanks fuu

[vale pine]

the side effect is, that the sht stack count is high enough to make the optimization trivial

[brisk raptor]

it seemed that way, seems like i always have aa from that next strike after i use st

[ashen warren]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[swift tinsel]

Using the next months to prep for labyrinth delves, my true endgame goals

[vale pine]

To be fair

it think there is a lot of casual content now

i refrain to comment on the quality (people probably have very diffrent opinions on it) of it, but you can spend a lot of time doing less challanging content

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I probably spend more time vibing in delves than any other content currently lol

Bare minimum keys to get vault slots and use reroll tokens

[void ocean]

20 free myth crests every week during mornin coffee

[swift tinsel]

Lmao yep pretty much

Run on a bunch of alts for some variety

[void ocean]

sometimes if lucky might even get a usefull ring

thank god trinkets r shit

[warm marlin]

looking down the barrel of 50 12s is getting me down a bit

[void ocean]

still cant forget delve prison in tww s2 when i farmed hc FHL for my dk

[swift tinsel]

Basically biding time until they release all the 12.1 info to see if I’m feeling like continuing in midnight

Workshopping new mains

[swift tinsel]

This would legitimately kill me

[warm marlin]

ive done it a few times before

[vale pine]

I did delves with my gf the last 2-3 days

honestly, not content for me

but to everyone who likes doing them

same with the extra content, the anglers event and hide and seek game wasn't that exciting

think prop hunt is difficult tho, as i would assume its a lot more fun

if you invite your entire guild into it and have voice

[steel zinc]

Nightmare Hunts were nice the first week they were out.

Just the loot you get right now is not worth. Right now a +10 trumps anything. You can so much mythic items this season

[vale pine]

nightmare hunts ended up buggy first week

[steel zinc]

and +10 has a 95% complition rate this season

[vale pine]

i got the debuff instantly many times that ticked to death

the timers for the "kill enemy" was abyssaly low

[split shore]

i liked it more when there were more traps to undo

[vale pine]

i also disslike what they did to traps

[thin elk]

hi, i am currently playing aug evoker. Doing raiding and m+(17 resi and on mythic cosmos right now). My parses are generally around 40-60 in raid and 70-80 in dungeons eventhough aug is easy to play. I think my biggest problem is not casting enough. So i decided to play a melee class. Rogue looks cool and i liked sub as a spec. How does the class fare in high level play, am i making a mistake in my thinking, would you recommend a normal player trying to master this spec?

[vale pine]

rogue this patch is mediocre

so if damage is the main concern, dh or dk would probably be better suited

this does not mean we are bad, its just, tuning is more in favor of these

[thin elk]

i am okay with mediocre damage if i can parse high like 85+

[warm marlin]

are you pugging your keys

[thin elk]

yes

[warm marlin]

you will find it 10x harder to get into groups on rogue compared to aug

aug is possibly the easiest spec in the entire game to get invited on and rogue is down there with the hardest prob

[thin elk]

true really easy find pugs as aug

[warm marlin]

its not as bad this season as it normally is because phys is popular

[thin elk]

but my biggest concern is parse right now, i do not enjoy the class or even the game with low parses. try to analyze and get better but still on the low end even when i try

i though maybe melee will do something different

and rogue sub looks cool

🤣

[steel zinc]

they changed it so do 2 WQ you done

[vale pine]

it is a fun spec, i don't know how easy it is to parse in m+

my assumption would be that key level timed plays a central role to parsing

[gusty wharf]

do i need more crit than mast for raid?

[thin elk]

it does and makes it higher when you finish faster

[warm marlin]

are you talking about key% or overall parse for keys

[split shore]

it also depends on your group's set up, and other stuff that is out of your control, imo if youre parsing purple youre doing fine

[sand snow]

are we still aiming for 700 haste even with 298 guidon?

[vale pine]

yes

guidon upgrade is mostly a agi push

[umbral ocean]

I can't see pinned on my phone, is there anything in there about what trinkets to run from dungeons as I don't really raid much. I already have a myth puzzlebox, just not sure what to run for the 2nd trinket.

[thin elk]

key parses and raiding parses, the thing is i have a friend that always does near 95+ parses on both keys and raiding. i wanne be like that too, mastering a class. so wanted your thoughts is rogue and sub specifaclly difficult to play and do 80+parses? can i study and increase my parse easier than a ranged one cuz i am stuck on that front

thanks for all answers

[warm marlin]

yeah what i was asking was what kind of specific key parse because one of them is purely based on the score you got from the dungeon

and is entirely 100% irrelevant

and even the other one is kinda super dependent on your group and route

[thin elk]

then damage parses that is where i can individually increase my putput

output*

[warm marlin]

if you want my honest answer if you struggle to parse well on a spec i think abandoning it to try something "easier" is the wrong mentality for improvement

parsing well on sub this tier is a lot dependent on how well you can pad on little adds on all of the early fights

i personally would find something i enjoy the playstyle of and go from there to master, which could very well be rogue

[thin elk]

true and i wanted to try and see if that is rogue, what i am getting is it is not espicially difficult so i will give it a try

[vale pine]

damage parsing will depend on your tank a lot

pulling bigger gives better output naturally, but thats the same on any dps spec you play

[foggy estuary]

In m+ sadly depends on how bozo the tank is in pulls, and how aware they are about cd optimization. All those factoring in key level as well(because cd use and pulls in higher key differ a bit) make it ultra hard to parse oranges so dont beat yourself up brother.

Also again in raids depends on how much pad u do on the extras, especially at this point where even mythic is outgeared and boss dam is a given.

[dusky yacht]

My DPS can easily vary with 30-50k depending on what the tank is doing it's kinda insane lol

[foggy estuary]

When i tank small keys with dh to chill from lfg application simulator on rogue i normally do big pull-small pull because group cds will prolly align like this for 10-12s.

[dusky yacht]

But seems to be the same for every class tho

[foggy estuary]

Yeah its like that :/

[lilac stag]

Good luck.

[random mason]

on small keys on my tank alt i just hold W

sub 20mins keys or bust

[dusky yacht]

Those are the tanks where I go "Okay this tank is a psychopath... But I like it."

[foggy estuary]

Yeah true ngl 🫠

I pulled skyreach bird pull on dh on second boss as soon as the tech was out and pug went menal(in a good way) 😂

[dusky yacht]

Fk it we ball atmosphere

[shrewd lantern]

Best tank i've run with always says

"healers arent people you gotta yank them around like on a chain"

[random mason]

does he play blood dk

[red vortex]

alright quick question ladies and gents

I have M vorasius dagger.
we will start belo'ren prog today

do i core my current dagger or hold?

[shrewd lantern]

no vdh

[warm wagon]

Don't hold on cores, it's uncapped and free to farm

[foggy estuary]

Was gona ask the same

[gusty wharf]

bump

[shrewd lantern]

blud's acting like cores are a limited resource

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
nothing else matters

[gusty wharf]

patchwork, 1 boss 5 mins ?

[lilac stag]

wtf would you hold void cores for progression raiding?

[shrewd lantern]

what else would you do

[lilac stag]

this is why no one likes rogues

[shrewd lantern]

people thinking vorasius dagger is bad cracks me up

[lilac stag]

May the hunter get the dagger if it drops

[shrewd lantern]

i think i simmmed a "bad" vers mast piece for a crit mast piece once

sim gained 40 dps

[lilac stag]

let me just casually remove 10 ilvl from MH dps

Meanwhile I tossed a core at a heroic 2h craft.

[shrewd lantern]

sometimes i look at secondaries when we're like, 5 months into a tier

and i have a gazillion myth pieces

and just bored

[lilac stag]

Well when all three are 20-23dps per stat no one cares.

[shrewd lantern]

vorasius dagger bad bro

CLEARLY

[lilac stag]

except people in this discord

[shrewd lantern]

that 24 versa is horrible

[foggy estuary]

Vor dagger still sims higher than krick for me so i rock that as well

[lilac stag]

Dagger entitlement for rogues is over. Long live SV hunter, the dagger overlords

[shrewd lantern]

im sending my next core ig on puzzle when assa gets buffed eventually

got my main 4 by wednesday already

[foggy estuary]

Mine are going in nexus rings but the loot table is absolutely scuffed.

[shrewd lantern]

you cant core those

[foggy estuary]

Oh yeah ik

Im talking about bonus rolls

Im done with all forge pcs i grinded hard :p

[tepid trellis]

i get mine when i get mine from raiding

[lilac stag]

nexus is fine depending what you have.

[tepid trellis]

aint loggin in to get them

[lilac stag]

there’s a small difference, the tier is over for you.

[foggy estuary]

I have 35 runs in nexus alone, cant wait to grind the bonus rolls in a crapped loot table 🫠

[dusky yacht]

Inb4 I get myth omission as last roll after doing 42 xenas runs to get hero omission before voidcore announcement

[shrewd lantern]

damn "bis dagger" is huge

HUGE

[dusky yacht]

Better save our rolls for belo'ren boys it's over with our trash vora dags

Are we even playing the game at this point

[foggy estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/yugeometer-gif-16703396633504125295

[lilac stag]

You get another 44 if you add a 298 OH with mastery and swap to arcanoweave x2

[dusky yacht]

For a whopping +94 DPS

But wait, there's more!

[lilac stag]

Only if you swap to DK

[dusky yacht]

[foggy estuary]

Actually died😂

[lilac stag]

I’m actually scared to sim my 268 DK.

[foggy estuary]

My 280 sims the same as my 286 rogue but has slightly scuffed stats, has two resets worth of grind compared to midnight start with main🫠

[split shore]

do it

u wont

[dusky yacht]

With the crest ascendant core thing I think you can get higher ilvl on an alt than on your main now lmao

[foggy estuary]

Yeah i had to bozo some crests as wel on first couple of weeks as wel for progging hc pieces so main is basically paying the price now and alts cruising

[lilac stag]

almost 100k

[foggy estuary]

268?^

[foggy estuary]

Lul 😆

The moment is higher than rogue what happens?

Inb4 smash pc screen

[vale pine]

he gears his alt

[lilac stag]

it’s basically getting geared for possible Lura

[foggy estuary]

We are far from lura yet hope u get it boys

We were gona prog dragons but had roster issues so big sad

[cerulean mirage]

reaching haste breakpoint even if it means dps lost ?

[vale pine]

yes

[cerulean mirage]

wild , thank you for answering 🙂

[tacit hare]

Homies, do you play AoE or Single target on mythic king?

[sacred gull]

ST

Burst all 1st big orbs and cleave boss if you can, then just focus boss

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tacit hare]

so no aoe talents for small orb padding 🙁

[lilac stag]

it’s not an actual dps loss. You’re never hitting the sim dps without the breakpoint

[radiant swift]

anyone have the twitch clip from the guy, that got kicked because he didnt log to raid bcs of "push week"?

[warm marlin]

https://www.twitch.tv/gromnak/clip/HedonisticBelovedRavenPeteZaroll-47M96U7k10lmXzI7?lang=en

[radiant swift]

tyvm sir

[still gazelle]

If my girlfriend exclusively plays an augmentation, evoker, is sub probably better than assassination?

I feel like Sub just feels kind of bad with two target fights. I looked at the spreadsheets, and on paper it looks like sub is better in both single Target and AOE?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal vortex]

assa probably better but kinda the same

if we are talking for high keys

[still gazelle]

My girlfriend and I are currently working on resilient 18s

I don't know what high is versus medium. I don't know

[tribal vortex]

18 starts to be high enough for assa to feel better

[sacred gull]

Depends if you want to carry your team or parse 🙃

[left ledge]

yes sub is currently just stronger than assa

[tacit hare]

parse

but are high parses (90+) doing aoe or st, i assume aoe

[still gazelle]

The other thing that makes me kind of lean towards subtlety if they're not that much different, is that subtlety seems to just be better in raid on most logs

[tribal vortex]

this is really debatable

[still gazelle]

Aside from vanguard obviously

[golden totem]

doesnt aug works better with 2min spec

[left ledge]

idk if i constitute as a high parser but id like to think im a decent player but i only do ST

dont think i could give a shit about hitting an add that is getting 15 nukes thrown at it

[tacit hare]

that is true gloom

[lilac stag]

sub is arguably better (comp dependent). You have decent priority and likely highest boss dmg in keys right now and well as good aoe. You only need so much prio dmg in a key and other dps does it better than rogue.

[still gazelle]

That's good feedback, thank you. I like playing all three specializations, but I just happen to have best in slot for both dagger specs.

The tipping point was which one seems better in raid and on paper.

[tribal vortex]

with aug though ?

[sacred gull]

This fight is really about the tanks kiti g the boss correctly if you want to parse anyway

If they don't kite well, you would rather go ST anyway because you won't have much up time on your cleave

[lilac stag]

Sub & Aug are great together

[tribal vortex]

because the less prio you have the better assa is

[kind edge]

The problem is find a good aug. My experience is: or they are amazing, or they are dogshit. There isn’t middle term

[radiant swift]

how does augs compability differ with specs? i always tought hes just high uptime buffing u which is his dps anyway?

[lilac stag]

If his girlfriend is dog shit that is for them to workout.

[tacit hare]

we have another rogue, he went for the aoe build

[lilac stag]

Sub dmg cds are predictable. So it’s not hard to play with it

[radiant swift]

i see - tought so the aug kinda has to know when who has cds

no addon for it anymore?

[smoky bough]

can someone tell me what i am (arylie) doing wrong on dragons compared to my other rouge in the guild?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/zM3xKNFQGhLHR2BA/self?fight=27%2C25&type=damage-done&source=181%2C6

[lilac stag]

Use !log please

[smoky bough]

!log

[tidal solstice]

"weekly"

[ornate lake]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[ornate lake]

Any 298 passive m+ trinket that comes close or better than 285 alnseer trinket?

[tribal vortex]

do we still go box for belo ?

[lilac stag]

Plume

[ionic spruce]

Dear fellow rogues, I started playing this class in Midnight and I have two questions for DPS otpimization:

• I’ve noticed that sometimes I’m at 5/6 combo points, don’t have enough energy to use Backstab, and Dance/SecTec is coming up in 1 or 2 s. In that situation, I feel like it might be a DPS gain to take the Toxic Stiletto talent and use Shiv to go up to 7 CP. Do you know if this has already been simmed?

• Sometimes Find Weakness can drop off, if you’re unlucky, when Dance/SecTec will be ready in 1 or 2 s. I don’t see this mentioned in any guide, but I feel like in this situation in pure single-target, using Shuriken Storm as the last finisher instead of Backstab give you a guaranted crit (thanks to the Silent Storm talent) and therefore procs Find Weakness before Dance/SecTec. Has this already been simmed?

[vale pine]

you would stop using finishers close to dance/secret (like 3-5 sec before secret gets ready), which solves the first qustion

find weakness is passive more or less, no need to worry about it

[fallow nimbus]

Everything was simmed

[quaint lodge]

I wouldn't go that far lol, we find errors in sims all the time

Didnt' we just find one like a week ago

[fallow nimbus]

But was it simmed?

[quaint lodge]

Laughing

[fallow nimbus]

Something can always change but most of the time it's a bugfix or new bug

No talent is unsimmed

[quaint lodge]

A bug is the same as a talent being unsimmed

[ionic spruce]

At first we couldn’t track Find Weakness, so I didn’t really worry about it. But I recently saw that it can be tracked now, and sometimes when you’re waiting 3-5 seconds without using a finisher for Sectec to come back, Find Weakness can fall off. This is very rare, but it can happen once or twice during a raid boss.

[fallow nimbus]

Don't worry about it

[quaint lodge]

It does happen ocasionally, granted I do not know the answer myself, you can always test it and I think thats what you should go do

Hit a target dummy, put FW on it, hit Sectec and see if the damage is a lot different or not

[ionic spruce]

Yeah I will

[fallow nimbus]

That's worrying about it and the wrong approach to something that trivial

[quaint lodge]

This entire game is a trivial game lmao

Just play the game, do what you like

[fallow nimbus]

You literally lose more dps with a streak of unlucky autohits

[tribal vortex]

the solution can't be go hit a target dummy wtf

[ionic spruce]

If you keep your sectec for a big add spawn and you don't have Find Weakness, it guess it could kill your damage

[tribal vortex]

there is a huge variance

[quaint lodge]

As opposed to the large amount of simming that removes variance

[tribal vortex]

yes?

[quaint lodge]

The case here is hyper optimization, you cannot sim this with that many tries LOL

At some point the sim will tell you nothing matters

[tribal vortex]

bro how do you want to do it with a dummy

wtf are you talking about

[hazy breach]

it does not

[fallow nimbus]

That won't kill your dmg at all because you get fw with the follow up strike anyway

[hazy breach]

Like 20-25% of sectech is physical

So not getting a +16% buff on that

[ionic spruce]

But the first hit of sectec will not be buffed

[hazy breach]

Isnt killing your dps

But also your backstab should be proccing it before

[quaint lodge]

You can literally just test it a few hundred times , the ism is doing the same thing, the only difference is that one is a robot, and one is actual results from the game

Sims aren't ripped from the game's code, they're man made

[tribal vortex]

You cannot test it a few hundred times

[fallow nimbus]

Not finishing before dance doesn't mean you can't bs or storm

[tribal vortex]

it's insane yo even propose that

[quaint lodge]

I mean if you literally cannot sit there in the pursuit of finding real data , then yeah maybe YOU can't

[vale pine]

you can use storm, wouldn't rly make much diffrence

[ionic spruce]

I feel like using a 10-energy Shiv when you're at 6 CP and the dance/sectec will be ready in 2-3 s should be a gain, since you'll be at 7 CP and you will not lose enough energy to delay the sectec

and doing this guarantee a 7 CP-sectec

[tribal vortex]

you are afk 3 sec before dance so you shouldn't be in this scenario

[small sleet]

its more like, if you find yourself in that situation, youve already made a mistake

[fallow nimbus]

Do you know that shiv procs danse macabre?

[ionic spruce]

Since the guides say that we should use finishers at 6 or 7 CP, I will indeed afk 3 s before sectec if I'm at 6 or 7 CP, but then Shiv can provide you this last CP without losing the energy you're afking for

[vale pine]

please don't

shiv is so inefficient

its rly bad to use

[tribal vortex]

spam backstab

for 5 secs

you need only 30 energy for sec tech so you can almost ''freely'' spam backstab

[west tide]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[warm marlin]

what about the death perception buff though

the first clone will hit before you reup it with storm

[hazy breach]

Ig thats true

But youre insanely unlikely to not have fw up to begin with

[lilac stag]

guess we should track FW

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[lilac stag]

for that .4%

Sorry. Sarcasm wasn’t obvious enough

@warm marlin how many pillar of frost macros did you make. Did it compare to dance macros?

[warm marlin]

no because that spec is terrible in keys

so i only made obliterate macros

[urban lion]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fleet acorn]

anyone knows why nsrt reminders only work on belo until intermission?

[warm marlin]

pillar/oblit and pillar/breath/obli

[ionic spruce]

I understand that some of you are making fun of me for these questions, but I thought this was the best place to ask them.

[hazy breach]

Since you can enter intermission at different timers the notes doesnt know what to do

[quaint lodge]

Yeah people here are relatively dickheads 90% of the time I wouldn't worry abt it too much

[twin quartz]

Probably because dynamic push timers don’t work

[quaint lodge]

They'll answer but you have to argue with them for a bit LOL

[twin quartz]

So you’d have to push at 1:50 exactly every time

[warm marlin]

fwiw i think you have a point

[fleet acorn]

soo weird man i just want reminders to work on times doesnt matter for me its intermission or not

[warm marlin]

find weakness is a bit hard to model properly in sims unfortunately

i tried to look into making a midway point where you would sometimes be in front of a boss and sometimes behind but it is too technical for me to do

[ionic spruce]

yes and sometime you also lose it because of downtimes

[hazy breach]

Can always storm once before when you are at full cp if you really want to make sure it never happens

[ionic spruce]

that would be a dps loss I guess to do it every time, but in a situation you're at 5 CP, sectec up in 4 s, fw drops off in less than 4 s, then shuriken storm instead of backstab guarantee the crit

[hazy breach]

It does not really matter if you storm or backstab

When you are at 7 cp and just dump energy

[vale pine]

the damage of both is fairly low

so you not rly losing out on damage

[manic salmon]

https://tenor.com/bOyh1.gif

[tribal vortex]

do we use box or guidon for belo guys ?

[marble sail]

guidon

[tribal vortex]

ah rly ?

thought box was better

[marble sail]

no

[meager coyote]

on last boss of seat, is the timer from pull to damage amp 90 seconds or do I have to hold as sub?

[tribal vortex]

It's not a timer exactly cause you can miss

but I think if done correctly its aroudn there

[meager coyote]

well I know it's "longer than 1 min" but idk if it's 90 sec or lower

[tribal vortex]

If you have cd's on pull you send

[hazy breach]

Its like 70s from pull to amp

And then its 90s to the next amp

[tribal vortex]

ah yeah I remember it 90 but everytime in pugs we miss a line

[hazy breach]

You can purposefully miss one beam to have it line up better at 90s

[tribal vortex]

in higher keys maybe it's too much dmg but yeah

[hazy breach]

Its less damage actually

The orbs do damage while they are up, and once you hit them with a beam they stop ticking

So if you miss one, you have a set with only 1 orb ticking, so you take virtually no damage (like 1/3 or 1/6 of what you usually take)

But obviously you get less uptime on the amp

[tribal vortex]

what do you mean less uptime on the amp

as a ratio to the fight ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tribal vortex]

yeah ok but if you know the fight will last 2 intermissions for example it could be a gain sending 3 blades instead of 2

[hazy breach]

yes

[tulip light]

with the new upgrade system do we want 2x mythic daggers and a second embellishment on a slot like belt / bracer etc? or is the wep embellishment worth the lower ilvl?

[tribal vortex]

sim it but kinda the same probably

if you have a hero item it can be btter to craft this for example

[hazy breach]

It does not change anything

[torn turtle]

If I forge a hero wep, can I then reforge it to myth? I thought I read that was a thing

[hazy breach]

No, but you get cheaper upgrades for your myth track

[thin sinew]

holy myth alleria after paladin snooze fest is a wake up call

[hard breach]

On the WowHead opener guide, it says to use Shadow Dance THEN Shadow Blades. Why is this? I have been using them in reverse order.

[hazy breach]

It does not matter

As long as you use both before sectech

[lavish breach]

question. is the 700 haste with a specific ilvl guidon? or should i try to go higher if i only have a champ version?

[fleet acorn]

Belo down boys

[tidal solstice]

any guidon, a max champ is stil la huge chunk of haste

[lavish breach]

ye i was just wondering if the raw stat value for the 2nd sectech changed at all regarless of guidon

[torn turtle]

Is it a bad idea to just macro dance+blades with ST or is one button fine?

[grave parcel]

a macro for it is fine, just press guidon before, and always pop dance macro with 6-7 cp for st. This just allows you to get more uses of ss by macro it.

[fleet acorn]

is there a way to upload a log only for my own char and ignore other chars?

[random mason]

Wdym

Like a provate log?

[torn turtle]

Still working on getting guidon, so that's fine.

[plush roost]

If u mean so ur parse shows up but everyone elses does not, no

[fleet acorn]

ye ok ty

[plush roost]

Otherwise @warm marlin s guild would never kill a boss

I hear theyre very evil with loga

[grave parcel]

follow the rule 800 haste w/o guidon. So go for it immediately. GL brother

[torn turtle]

rogue hit 90 today, so heroic raid may be next weekend

[grave parcel]

Considering how easy gearing is now. It should be rather fast, so just try to get any guidon. Run lfr/normal just for the vault slot cus why not. Until you get gaze I recommend doing rep trinket-do the void storm console next to the rep guy and once you spec into it. It will be better than any other trinket other than H gaze/plume

[warm marlin]

???

we are very ethical wdym!!

[plush roost]

[warm marlin]

everything public from here on out (until next tier)

[plush roost]

Crazy that bingusguppy zero public logs

[warm marlin]

bungusgrippy has public logs already..

[plush roost]

Fuck my lore is ruines

I didnt wanna check and just be right

I can no context post so hard with damage to bosses now

Mobile format shows no context

Op af

"Yeah im just 100 parse andy nbd"

"Dont look inside thank you"

[tidal solstice]

shit im just happy if i hit 90% on a mythic boss lol.

first season raiding mythic though

[rain kernel]

i have 700 haste with the diddy oils...is that fine or do i need hard 700 haste?

[hazy breach]

thats fine

[trail rover]

finally got guidon and wtf 810 haste pbox felt harder to fit 2sectecs than 630 haste guidon, its actually insane

[hazy breach]

Well yeah, because guidon gives a lot of haste

[trail rover]

yeah it pretty obvious xD but wasnt expecting how much it smoothens out the whole rota

[patent ermine]

I lost this week's to a resto druid roll

Bonus roll 50/50 shot next week

[thin sinew]

Well guess i'm one of those guys now

[ionic flint]

hey all, im not trying to be vibes craft. but i feel like sub does much worse in M+ with the cloud cover nerf

[sacred gull]

the cloud cover meta lasted 1 week or 2 weeks no ?

[ionic flint]

yes

but it feels aLOT worse

[sacred gull]

in comparaison to before the cloud cover meta ?

[ionic flint]

just during the 1-2 week period the dps diff in large packs is substantial

[tidal solstice]

eh i havent noticed. the extra crap covering the floor probably made me scramble more than any dps gained

[sacred gull]

yes then, if you were doing big pulls on your CD it's quite a nerf I think

[hazy breach]

Idk pretty sure its just always better now than before

Unless the pack is specifically like 20s long

[sacred gull]

maybe it doesn't feel as spiky as cloud cover could be, but overall it gets better with the other buffs

[random comet]

That’s a vault key time frame for sure

[random mason]

Yeah

[random comet]

Every pack lasting exactly 2 dances

[random mason]

At this point its vault keys with bad players even

Or low gear parties

[random comet]

Can’t remember the last time I did a vault key where one dps wasn’t doing tank damage and it’s not even always the key holder

Bless the timer

[golden totem]

2 wipes in lura p4 = 100% parse (1% wipe included)
lura kill = blue parse

at least boss is dead

[random comet]

This is the way

[golden totem]

[raw wadi]

how did fu reach 130k sim? i simmed exactly the same and sitting on 122k

[random mason]

All buffs?

[raw wadi]

except pi

[river sky]

anyone having input lag pressing st and dance macro in huge pulls

[finite lynx]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[random mason]

As in ST doesnt go off? Might be out of range for whatever youre targeting

[river sky]

nah st goes off but dance doesnt lol

its so weird

[random mason]

You sure they're both up?

[river sky]

rarely happens tho

yeah

usually happens in AA first pull etc

which is annoying cuz a huge downtime on the pull because of it

[random mason]

Like i get a few situations where SD is on like 2s CD but ST is up

[river sky]

i wish its usually those situations where u use once dance with sb etc

and then when its off and i want to send my 2nd dance st

it just bugs out

[sick sand]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random mason]

Like the third one in the opener sequence?
SB+SD+ST > SD to cover last 8s >ST not supercharged > SD+ST

[river sky]

second one

where ur on the 8s mark on sb

[random mason]

Do u not go into pull with 2 charges? Only idea id have left

[river sky]

nah i think it must be an addon bugging out

probably BT

[hazy breach]

Vantus rune gives a lot

And the prestacked superchargers are slight increases too, however the vantus rune is the main one

[hollow spear]

Apparently some (your?) apl changes have also made it in, as ds gained another 1.7% on trickster

[hazy breach]

I mean yeah

I pushed them

[hollow spear]

Pretty massive diffy

[short radish]

What you pshing bud. What you pshing

[hollow spear]

You to play ds

[alpine wraith]

the forbidden tech

[sharp bone]

hey how illegal is it to run my outlaw mh in my offhand because i raid as sub?

is a heroic dagger better?

[hazy breach]

Quite silly as you can buy better daggers of the auction house

than using any non-dagger

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[sharp bone]

HUGE thanks 🙂

heroic dagger it is

[dusky nymph]

is darkest night still buggy af and can vanish for the whole fight if unlucky or did they eventually fix that?

cause ngl that thing worries me

[hazy breach]

It cannot

As you have a button now that moves the mark, but even before that it only really happens if you use the darkest night on something that is evading, which is insanely rare in raids

[dusky nymph]

oh SHIIIIT

hallelujah they fixed it

[graceful osprey]

Could just make it a buff like find weakness

[dusky nymph]

does that reset the stacks or does it keep them?

[dusky nymph]

nooo, the concept of the mark is cool, the execution was bad

but the idea that you have that one focus target mob is pretty neat

fuck I might actually give deathstalker a try now ngl

[torn turtle]

Got pit dagger myth, guess I need to craft one more? I’m not doing myth raid

[short radish]

the concept of mark is stupid. we've somehow gone full circle from

combo points on target -> redirect (1min cd) -> combo points on player -> deathstalkers mark on target -> redirect (no cd?)

[sullen hare]

it has an energy cost and cooldown so it's not perfect but it does help. also it's stupid as fuck that it doesn't just transfer somewhat easily

[dusky nymph]

yeah TWW was cool where the transfer was super easy, forgot what it was though

oh right, vanish shadowstrike

[dusky nymph]

still, this little thing resolves the issue of the occasional bug / annoying mob that's running away for a mechanic / evade / whatever else that sometimes happens

[hazy breach]

All it does is move the exact mark you already have onto a new target

[dusky nymph]

okay that's sick

[hazy breach]

Yeah except the part where it incentivizes you to swap it to an add with low hp

So you get DN when it dies

[dusky nymph]

I mean

I... don't see the problem with that? :P

[sullen hare]

my favorite part is when I just play trickster and not have to babysit a mechanic that no one wanted to be this asinine to manage 🙂

[hazy breach]

I see you probably werent around back in the days when marked for death was an ability, but it is not very fun to have to minmax that type of mechanic

As even when it was better, most people simply couldnt be bothered playing it, which is why it was removed

Now theyve added back a similar mechanic (with a similar name to boot)

[dusky nymph]

I mean I love trickster but I miss some complexity compared to tww, and DS kinda could bring it

[dusky nymph]

I think I was actually, played rogue insanely hard in WoD

[tribal blade]

ahhhh ok yeah taht's why i remember it

[dusky nymph]

but I don't remember it that well, WoD sub was way too complex lol

anyway, anyone got some better data on Trickster vs DS?

(better as in, more then just "2% diff in ST and Trickster is just better in AoE")

[finite lynx]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[small sleet]

what more do you want?

ds doesnt really function well at all in aoe, but it does higher in pure st

thats about all there is to really say about it

[short radish]

blizzard devs watch streamers of beta players for all the rogue/invis skips then adds eyes to those mobs when theyre mid way through the dungeon

my title mate

[dusky nymph]

yeeah... valid point actually

[hollow spear]

Ds is kinda deadge in m+

[dusky nymph]

ig nimble flurry is just too strong, even after it got reduced to a sliver of what it once was

still, I might give DS a try on some bosses, 2% more ST sounds great on those rare few bosses that have almost no add padding

[tribal blade]

hahaaa

[tribal blade]

i think it's more so flawless form is better than what DS has

+20% to all finisher dmg flat

[graceful rock]

anyone have a meekaura for deepening shadow update ticks?

[finite lynx]

wait am i trolling if i cast shadowblades macro'd with pot and guidon and then use the shadow dance macro with sec tec?

am i suppoed to be casting shadow dance first?

[graceful rock]

no

youre wasting like a second of blades

but you cant cover dance across all 20 anyway so it really doesnt matter

[finite lynx]

so shadow blades first is fine

[graceful rock]

yea

[finite lynx]

k

ty

im confusing myself on this too

[tribal blade]

how tf do you permanently delete WAs from m33kauras

[finite lynx]

in the opener, should i always be shadowstriking before evis even when i get the CP refunded?

or should i be SS, evis, evis

[random mason]

I think you have to delete some actual WA files that are still stored somewhere

[tribal blade]

mm ok

[random mason]

You only want to force the apex talent onto the supercharged combo points

[tribal blade]

maybe delete this WAs folder in addons?

[random mason]

#wow-general message

[finite lynx]

so in the opener it might look like this: SS > blades > dance > sectec > SS > SS > evis?

[random mason]

Unless you already have enough charges of shadow tech

[brisk onyx]

dance and tech will cast in the same time

with marco

[tribal blade]

don't even have /cry

[brisk onyx]

It can significantly help you hit the last gcd in dance

[brisk onyx]

Under Account name

Your login account

[tribal blade]

i'm so lost

don't see that

[random mason]

Maybe its cause you play on mac

[tribal blade]

yeah might. be

fuck this bullshit

why am i still dealing with addon bs

[random mason]

You tried just deleting them

[brisk onyx]

Ye

Delete one by one in game

[tribal blade]

yeah i ahve

they always come back

[brisk onyx]

wut

wired

[tribal blade]

yes they literally will come back like zombies

[random mason]

Backup is hiding in your walls

You have to dig it out

[finite lynx]

Sorry I am just not really understanding this optimization.

So I know you get 2 charges of supercharger from using dance and one gets spent on sec tec in the opener. Now after that I SS again and that’s where I’m getting lost. Once I SS the first time what exactly I am looking for to tell me whether to SS again or send Evis on the 2nd supercharger?

[random mason]

The black lines next to your char that signify your apex talent being active

If you have em, evis

If not, another SS

[finite lynx]

Ok got it, and that is something I only need to worry about when I press dance?

[lilac stag]

lets play, how did the 9 POS go...

[random mason]

Yeah

[random mason]

Ez timed wdym

[lilac stag]

more like reporting a tank for sabotage

[swift tinsel]

fdk arc looks like its going well lol

[swift tinsel]

😮

[lilac stag]

just trying to get some keys done lol

[swift tinsel]

lol fair

[lilac stag]

so farm 0/3

[random mason]

I got a +10 log where i out dmg'd a fury war on my blood dk while being 5ilvls down

[swift tinsel]

tried queueing as havoc and got insta-declined, swapped to dev and insta-invite lol

[peak ice]

you can add shadow tech and aa to your cooldown manager

[lilac stag]

UH is just disguisting in keys

[swift tinsel]

yeah its super simple too

[lilac stag]

i'd like to not dragon pull half the dungeon as frost

[random mason]

A shame it kinda feels not great to play

[swift tinsel]

press festering twice a week, then ss graveyard till everything is dead

[brisk onyx]

udk = Necromancer

[swift tinsel]

yeah I played a handful of keys with it and it looks and sounds awesome but is lacking gameplay

[random mason]

Like it feels like the buttons i press dont do anything

[swift tinsel]

all the minions

[random mason]

Even tho i get big numbers bottom right

[swift tinsel]

carry your dmg

then graveyard carries the rest lol

also soul reaper consuming 2x stacks of putrefy is criminal

half the spec plays itself for you

[lilac stag]

but there are more than 2 buttons

[random mason]

Idk

[swift tinsel]

I swear that spec is spammier than ret

get infinite sudden doom procs

[lilac stag]

it's a lot more spammy than I was expecting

[swift tinsel]

can't spend festering stacks fast enough to not overcap while needing to refresh scythe

yeah its bad

[random mason]

You still put your fingers on graveyard + scourge strike and just spam

[swift tinsel]

frost feels infinitely better gameplay wise

[random mason]

When i tried it a tiny bit i didnt like frostwyrm's fury

[swift tinsel]

ye that part is probs the only drawback imo

[random mason]

Mostly bc it also goes where im swamped in procs that i really want to spend

[swift tinsel]

its off gcd isn't it

or is that breath

[random mason]

I dont think so

Breath is ogcd

[swift tinsel]

ah that makes sense then

iirc I had them macroed

ye dragon is tricky bc it can pull across the map and then recall you want to time well but don't want to screw yourself

[random mason]

Yeah i dont even care about that, it just doesnt feel nice to press idk

You got all the scythes flying out and doing insane numbers but you also have to do the dragon flyby

Bc it gives you a bit more pillar duration

And summons some dudes iirc

[swift tinsel]

exterminate is one of the best buttons in the game

fuckin love it on both frost and blood

[random mason]

Yeah its great

Might actually play frost and blood next season

[swift tinsel]

blood is my guilty pleasure tank

by miles

[random mason]

Its the only tank i enjoy tbh

But idk if id enjoy pushing keys on it

Might try later this season

[swift tinsel]

I'd just do 10-12's if I did

[random mason]

Its insane in that range even with 250 ilvl this season

But living simply on AA swing timers for the mobs vs your own death strikes doesnt seem great

[swift tinsel]

I really want them to rework apex

proc-based for tanks is awful

[random mason]

I want them to smooth dmg intake on tanks again

Esp on blood

[swift tinsel]

yep

bigtime

[random mason]

Give it stagger idk

[swift tinsel]

have blood plague tick faster or heal more per tick

scales with mob count so you don't get dumpstered

[random mason]

No its the big spikes of hits syncing up that i hate, as well as bleeds tbh

Fuck bleeds

Like dk needs to build a shield that splits dmg with your hp 50/50 so you can slowly work through dmg up to a certain level

And DS overheal goes in there

Plus a certain base amount

[swift tinsel]

like Ignore Pain kinda?

[random mason]

Yeah

Or stagger

[swift tinsel]

I feel like that's what they want Blood Shield to be but its not good at it

[random mason]

Yeah blood shield is phys only and it prevents dmg to hp

[swift tinsel]

making it prevent half damage or so like IP would be neat

[random mason]

Same for umbilicus

Or make umbilicus shield have a longer duration or reset on the next vamp blood cast

Both actually

Cause any RP u spend during umbilicus is wasted

Got the big ass shield

[swift tinsel]

that gets eaten before blood shield doesn't it

[random mason]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

bc iirc you just dump rp to build a big blood shield for when it drops