subtlety

[void ocean]

woke up tomorrow was like wtf happened where r my rolls

[lilac stag]

You say mythic puzzle box like it’s a good thing.

[void ocean]

i play assa too

[lilac stag]

I’m sorry

[void ocean]

gotta stay sharp, u never know when they might get buffed

[crystal bone]

i played sin on paladins only so far

[void ocean]

also these simplified rotations kinda bore me faster

i play 2 rogue and 2 dk specs almost in equal terms just to have some variety

[timid pulsar]

my sim wants me to go 1k+ haste lol

[void ocean]

r u ds by any chance

[timid pulsar]

as trickster without Guidon

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c1CDC36odw2WYNyWC5Yy2n

Yesterday it kept me at around 686 haste

Now it just fullsends it xdd

[heavy ember]

what is Guidon

Sorry new to rogue

[timid pulsar]

Haste trinket

[heavy ember]

ah yes

[valid falcon]

you guys think it's worth chasing the rings from nexus point? with bonus rolls i mean

[swift tinsel]

ye they're good

[limber folio]

i added FW and UB to my cdm, do i even bother

[swift tinsel]

FW nah

can get rid of UB/Fazed/Flawless Form

[hazy breach]

And silent storm

[swift tinsel]

ye p much all of them except a way to know when you have apex proc and coup ready

[hazy breach]

Shadow technique, ancient arts and unseen blade stacks are like the only things that matter

[limber folio]

i mean i use FF to keep up for L'ura

[subtle aspen]

U think ok to have 200 hast

[plush roost]

In keys it is fine

[subtle aspen]

Ye for keys

[charred pawn]

guys, noob question but im unsure which is the correct data

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e7QYs6ciDwa9TVA6LhAsG5

which flask is the highest dps according to the robot? is it mastery or crit

[void ocean]

i only track sht stacks 😄

and well AA procs in the centre of my screen

everything else, i dont feel we have any decision making based

(i use coup-bp macro so i got that covered as well)

[subtle aspen]

They Will uncap crests?

Like, plsssss

U Will do This?

[uncut token]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[uncut token]

So... I actually don't have the haste cap (HM guidon, 600 haste) but sim keep telling me to get more mastery and use mastery flask

Is it normal ?

[random mason]

Yes

Robot is better than you

[valid falcon]

well they did say AI was gonna replace us

[uncut token]

That's all about the second sentence in !haste ok

1024 crit (34%)
600 haste (18%)
344 mastery (38%)
311 vers (6%))

So I suppose I should try to erase vers or less crit to get more haste & mastery ?

[raw frost]

You need 54 versa from head xd

Thays it

Rest in mastery

I have 30 % crit 16 haste ,69 %mastery and 1 versa

[uncut token]

Vers on legs and feet cause outlaw bis rn

[raw frost]

And use flask for haste to go to 20 %

Bis where 😄

you need to min max outlaw and even then its slight above sub

maybe little bit more in very high keys

thats it

When blizzard change another spec to be 2-3 % better than their own and they switch instantly

to be meta slave is not easy i guess 😄

[fossil forge]

yes you need to have a premade group for this to work though i guess

and st is nonexistent probably

[uncut token]

Bro calling me a meta slave while it's my second time ever as Sub since end of Amirdrassil

[raw frost]

Not you 😄 i am saying it overall

[steady osprey]

Very cool - thank you for answering, I appreciate it

[uncut token]

Was playing Outlaw even when we were only 20 outlaw in mythic Sepulcher kekw

But still thank you for all the answer

[calm wing]

Crit flask or still mastery ?

[raw frost]

Personally as far as i can see where it iwll go on BIS

i believe 20% haste / 60-70 mastery/ 30-34 crit will be the optimal

[uncut token]

Was able to go on 30 crit, 21 haste (732), 44 mastery (before flask) and 5 vers

With gems adjusment

[raw frost]

when you change the versa to mastery you will be good to go

[patent ermine]

5 versatility won't change much :p

[sonic raven]

Anyone know if you can upgrade a heroic item to 298 or just mythic?

[patent ermine]

I think it's just +10ilvl so it has to be mythic

Worst case do it to a crafted dagger for a 295

[alpine wraith]

hero items will go to 285

pls dont waste it

unless it is uncapped

then whatever

[sonic raven]

Thanks

[humble jolt]

trying to figure out why I'm 10k below you, similar gear
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Rj5CwBfBvsAkHxdEEh552

[charred pawn]

im using mastery flask + rampant abandon potion

which was 1k dps increase

those are my stats

[humble jolt]

Thanks

[charred pawn]

also checked the vantus rune buff

but without vantus and with crit flask + light's potential potion i was simming 115k i think

[humble jolt]

That'll do it, thank you!

[shrewd lantern]

ymmv

i sim 50 dps lower with mastery flask

[charred pawn]

maybe you have too much mastery or

[golden totem]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sick epoch]

are those stats ok? I'd say a little bit less crit and more mast? or am I wrong

[empty mesa]

Would it be advised not to play sub until I can get 700 haste with trinket or 800 without?

[hazy breach]

Its fine to play anyway

Just feels worse

[lilac stag]

petition to rename #subtlety to #aremystatsok

[sick epoch]

egoegoego

[keen dome]

Do I have enough

[molten hull]

https://tenor.com/view/howyy-gif-14677769772756874928

[swift tinsel]

As long as you have over 6-7%

[long sail]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F81JTtG79mhgyvVA?fight=31&type=damage-done&modal=fight-selection

Ok so ive gotten a lot better i feel but im still not doing dam, im assuming its up time and consistency but any feedback is appreciated

[plush roost]

Mastery is better on DS

[calm wing]

okay thanks!

[vale pine]

on trickster too

[lilac stag]

1. You’re playing the wrong talents.
2. Don’t have enough haste.
3. You’re macroing trinket with blades & dance

#subtlety-faq

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[golden coral]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

Are you hitting haste cap w/o flask? Is this the power of Lura ring

[serene notch]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[plush roost]

I dont have lura ring just an ass load of haste gear

Wedding ring + omission of light + alleria neck + pitnof saron belt + tier piecea and heavy haste crit boe legs

[chrome palm]

Killed Lura on ds yet?

[plush roost]

We didnt reclear lura last week

[chrome palm]

I was thinking of doing my boss damage run before everyone else starts playing ds

[plush roost]

Marsh said, eh we raid tuesday then take the week off

I do ds this week

[chrome palm]

Think I will as well for one last go on sub

[astral axle]

messerknecht playing sub again

[chrome palm]

I was going to do it last week but I just wanted to play outlaw instead

[astral axle]

Valid

[chrome palm]

Omg nvm

We get that void core thing

I can’t up my dagger

[astral axle]

yeah...

[chrome palm]

Probably

[astral axle]

Maybe next week

[chrome palm]

Need to get my na Tuesday night parse on outlaw with the 295

[astral axle]

who knows how that shit works

[chrome palm]

However it works I’m sure it won’t be bugged

[astral axle]

Surely no bug

[chrome palm]

Blizzard never bugs the player power mid season system

[hazy breach]

Ye to hit the breakpoint you kinda need one of these:

• Engineering crafted item (s)
• Alleria neck
• Lura rings

[vagrant fossil]

Is the bug from AA not giving back CPs when sectec also just not getting the damage on sectec?

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts clone cannot proc while Premeditation is up, as you are not expending any Shadow Technique stacks. This is not really a bug, just an unfortunate interaction.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[sly shore]

Guys I got curve

[vale pine]

congrats

!!

[chrome palm]

Hey grats on aotc

Aotc from the mythic kill goes crazy

[warm marlin]

us tonight surely 👿

[chrome palm]

Surely

Minimesser is unsaved btw

Fyi

[warm marlin]

no way

[vagrant fossil]

I was not thinking about premed one. I was thinking when you proc AA and then use dance + sectec without premed up

[warm marlin]

charrote is also unsaved

so ive been told

[chrome palm]

[warm marlin]

now we will be able to bring a rogue buff!

[hazy breach]

What. That is the premed one

[chrome palm]

Both rogues buffs!

[warm marlin]

huge numbing poison value

[astral axle]

numBing Chillin

[vagrant fossil]

Oh, then mb. I thought when you build up 5 ST, proc AA and use dance + sectec right after that that would be a different bug

So no value in getting AA when you are going to sectec

[golden thunder]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[plush roost]

And he will probably remain unsaved

[warm marlin]

you know my rogue is also unsaved

[hazy breach]

Premed is up when you dance right, so if you have AA up > press dance > press sectech

Premed is up, so the refund doesnt work

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach did the DS changes get pushed? Still seeing 3 weeks ago on github for apl

[hazy breach]

No

[vagrant fossil]

Aah ye, and then I suppose it isn't damage increased either

[hazy breach]

Correct, the clones only spawn when you get the refund

[golden thunder]

what is the deal with numbing ?

[hazy breach]

Wdym

[vagrant fossil]

Thank you boss man

[golden thunder]

is the attack speed and cast speed reduce better than the dmg reduce from atrophic? someone mentioned numbing before .. or was just a joke? ^^

[hazy breach]

In most keys youll wipe more often to a missed cast than to taking 3% more damage

[golden thunder]

ok thats what i felt too... was discussing with an other rogue in the guild

[hazy breach]

Obviously at the highest end when you have coordinated kicks its not as necessary, but i would generally say stick with numbing in keys

In raid you always go atrophic

[keen dome]

Huuuuge. Congrats!!!

[sly shore]

ty

Not bad for 2 day raiding

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[dire forum]

whats the theory craft for upcoming voidforge? we upgrade MH mythic dagger and gaze?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/you-made-it-gif-6962869610200796093

[sly shore]

281 pulls

[hazy breach]

Yes, but nobody knows how many or how often we get them

But mainhand first yes

[dire forum]

thank you

[chrome palm]

@warm marlin https://www.twitch.tv/zorthas/clip/RepleteDifferentSardineBleedPurple-Tp9Jtb9_UajQtkSa

is it over or what

[plush roost]

[lilac stag]

It would have had to start to be over.

[warm marlin]

[plush roost]

Tldw it for me

Im in public

[ripe flame]

Rogue bad

[hazy breach]

"i started to gear a rogue, but it was a mistake, shouldve geared a good class"

[plush roost]

Yuhp

[hazy breach]

With some extra bro and man tossed in

[plush roost]

I got an announcement to make gamers

[hazy breach]

As filler words

[robust saddle]

hey, has this bug been a thing before? idk i dont recall it .. it counts for the discount as for the slot but i dont have 285 2nd wep, so ingame its still 80 crests, but only 20 in raidbots

[timid pulsar]

Raidbots wants me to play 1.1k haste on trickster without Guidon, surely bait right?

[plush roost]

Ive been giving it some thought and I believe rogue is actually my home and sub is BiS down with outlaw, anyway this is all to say basically that read if gay

[golden thunder]

haha

[hazy breach]

It works that way for some other classes (like DHs), but not no rogue so yeah its a bit scuffed

[small sleet]

Buddy I don’t think you can handle the complexities of sub rogue….maybe stick to easy outlaw spec…

[plush roost]

Read if gay

[small sleet]

Oh I’m reading alright

[chrome palm]

WTF

[plush roost]

Fucken gottem

[chrome palm]

char you foul thing

[hazy breach]

Idk sounds like you screwed up something or your simming like 2 target cleave, you can link the sim if you want some more assistance with it

[robust saddle]

[astral axle]

[chrome palm]

what happened to the old bio

[timid pulsar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cohMSQL9cnwMACED4qgPHK
this is the latest one

its a sim with all gear i had and gems etc

[hazy breach]

Oh wait i read that as with guidon, but yeah without guidon its fine

[timid pulsar]

Ahh ok, i thought it was 800 without so that threw me off a bit

thanks for clearing it up 🙂

[hazy breach]

Well like 0.4% is not a big difference either way

[plush roost]

Vaporeon is literally made for human-

[west tide]

unfortunately as i dont have alleria neck i will have to disagree and play outlaw

when i get that alleria neck i will probably go back to sub otl is fun but issa little too rng

ill see how i feel on farma

[umbral fulcrum]

what about sectec interacts poorly with the apex talent? why don't we want to amp it

[hazy breach]

It doesnt buff the clones

[umbral fulcrum]

ah ty

[plush roost]

Friendship!

[graceful osprey]

Does anyone know if when we upgrade our crafted weapon to 298, does it keep the embellishment?

[hazy breach]

Crafted goes to 294, not 298 (could be 295, idk)

But yes

[hazy breach]

I mean i didnt press it

[somber sun]

Guys how do you optimize the parse for salad bar ?

[hazy breach]

Convince your raid to not touch the small orbs

Then press BP

[somber sun]

gotcha ty

[plush roost]

Surprised wcl didnt remove enduring void from the partition smhmyhead

[graceful osprey]

I wonder if it’s worth upgrading the crafted weapon to 294 and having a myth weapon on OH or upgrading the myth weapon to 298 and crafted 285 on OH

[hazy breach]

Mainhand first

100000% of the time

[hallow night]

I respec my weapon stats to haste/crit and now we are back to haste/mastery pri 😭

[latent remnant]

praying to get the beloren dagger next week on reclear

so i can actually upgrade that

[somber sun]

btw was the upgrade only possible from 6/6 myth track?

[granite hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[latent remnant]

fully upgraded hero or myth track

[somber sun]

damn

[latent remnant]

but hero track seems like a waste

[final gulch]

is the weaponmaster bug not in sims? weaponmaster is still simming higher for me than double finality

[alpine wraith]

depends on gear likely

but the bug should be in nightly

[hazy breach]

Sim latest

Not weekly

[final gulch]

ah ty

[serene notch]

For stats break points should I treat emberwing like having guidon?

[hazy breach]

Probably shouldnt use emberwing, but more of a sim it angle

[serene notch]

I’ve had absolutely dog luck on trinket blew all my charges on first boss, farmed AA….

Emberwing was a + vs double passive…..so here I am

[shrewd lantern]

farm more AA

[final gulch]

thats tough 😭

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah isnt imperator's loot table like 4 items?

💀

head cloak trinket boots

[serene notch]

Great now I’m even more sad thanks

[final gulch]

u should get it next week tho

[serene notch]

I got all the other three

[final gulch]

if that makes u feel any better

[serene notch]

FML

[final gulch]

if you've used it every week ur guaranteed it next week

blame blizzard for replacing dinars with rng slotmachine system

[brazen stone]

how big of a difference is recklessness pot vs lights potential for single target

[hazy breach]

Not a whole lot

[final gulch]

depends on stats

[hazy breach]

Assuming you get mastery

[serene notch]

I just joined a mythic raiding team (yay) but all my charges are blown in heroic…..do I gameble for the 25% mythic or 100% chance on heroic…..

[final gulch]

ummm

definitely mythic imo

[crystal atlas]

In M+ do we still also take 2/2 Finality?

[fossil forge]

dont we take 1finality 1 pp

[somber sun]

yeah what

it is only a ST change

[fallow nimbus]

We didn't take wm in m+ from the start

[crystal atlas]

mb I thought i already had pp lol was still in ST ty

[shrewd lantern]

wait no way we sent 3 weeks of bonus rolls

into HEROIC imperator

💀 💀 💀

[serene notch]

T-T

I was a AOTC and keys Andy.

[shrewd lantern]

i feel AA was better because that trinket is mythic

[serene notch]

That 40 y/o dad life man….someday you’ll understand

[serene notch]

Naw sims like even the lfr guidon more

Can’t beat the 1min 30 trinket for sub

[shrewd lantern]

isnt the sim 5min

so you get 3 uses of guidon

vs 2 box

[tribal vortex]

Also if you do any m puzzle is way better

[shrewd lantern]

pull the guidon in raid natty

[hazy breach]

5 min sim = 4-6 min sim

It has a 20% variance in duration by default

[serene notch]

God I’m such an idiot….should have done this

[shrewd lantern]

theres only one other class that wants guidon

the class that does no mechanics

[serene notch]

I think unholy likes it?

[shrewd lantern]

yeh

thats it

[warm marlin]

And frost!

[shrewd lantern]

same diff

[serene notch]

My guild does “anyone can roll” …..so I think it ended up in a sub optimal place. A cost of being casual.

[shrewd lantern]

💀

[somber sun]

most guilds do that no ?

graf

[serene notch]

I liked tradeable self loot we had in…..shadowlands?

At least for the guild and content I was doing it was a little less painful.

Never really enjoyed trying to whisper someone “well acktually that isn’t good for you” …. Most of the time they are enjoying the game in a way I wish I could.

[shrewd lantern]

nope

[somber sun]

[latent remnant]

Definitely depends on the guilds vibe I'd imagine, if someone said that to me and they were correct I'd really appreciate it

[subtle aspen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[solemn patrol]

what is it about ds that makes so much more haste needed

[left ledge]

deathstalker loop is an endless game of spamming finishers

you want to get as many darkest night casts as possible

while still following general spending rules

more gcds in dance means more opportunities to use deathstalker's power

trickster has a lot of its power in sectec

[latent remnant]

is it even realistic to get that much haste yet or is that just a future season thing

[left ledge]

how much haste

1100?

[latent remnant]

yea

[left ledge]

yes

ive been playing DS

[subtle aspen]

!hast

!cap

!hastcap

!commands

[left ledge]

haste has an e

[left ledge]

oh just to add onto it being realistic, imo deathstalker is also much more fun than trickster

[hazy breach]

Also if you have 1.1k haste you can fit 2 darkest nights in dance quite a lot of the time

[left ledge]

yes i almost always fit 2

[hazy breach]

Because you have an extra gcd

[left ledge]

sometimes lucky 3 in cds

can be quite disgusting

[latent remnant]

Probably a bit late to change up all my gear into haste to give it a try but maybe next season I will

[left ledge]

ive actually been enjoying DS so much more that im quite comfortable with cancelaura now

[hazy breach]

Cancelaura what

[left ledge]

really its just maybe a ring or neck swap with haste flask + oils if you cant reach it

im cancelaura apex if im at 1 stack of mark with like 5-6 sht stack and about to enter dance

[subtle aspen]

pro plays

[left ledge]

i dont if sectec is up

[latent remnant]

rings are definitely something i need to upgrade still, currently have crafted neck because I wasn't in on crown so no chance of getting the bis neck in vault 😔

[left ledge]

ill just expend the stack with sectec

pretty niche situation but it happens quite often on a long fight

[left ledge]

ngl i genuinely dont know if its the correct thing to do

but if i dont do it, i go into dance + DN without apex

the alternative is to just finish earlier and afk autoing while energy capped

but i feel like that has to be less dps

[latent remnant]

I still have so much to learn about getting better but honestly I'm happy being as mediocre as I am for this being my first expansion

[left ledge]

oh

i hit filter

GG

[wary locust]

sub4life

[left ledge]

@hazy breach any input on the cancelaura?

[hazy breach]

It wasnt worth it when i checked in simc, but its not horrible. Most of the time you will generate enough sht during the first seconds of dance to proc apex anyway

[left ledge]

i see yeah

its extremely niche i press it because usually sectec covers the sht problem

[peak ice]

In the crown fight, is it better to hit aleria or the simulacrum

When it doesn’t have a shield

[hollow spear]

Have you checked whether sending dn as first finisher in non-blades dances is a gain? Should improve your chances of getting a 2nd dn.

[hazy breach]

Huh

[runic sinew]

Is rogue still using a cancel aura for AA with Secret Technique?

[hazy breach]

You do not need to cancel it no

[mortal galleon]

any reason raidbots would be suggesting beyond 800 haste with guidon?

[lilac stag]

puts speculation glasses on link the sim

[hazy breach]

If its not higher ilvl then im not sure

[lilac stag]

watch it be

[mortal galleon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4NRKnTjfCYE1dhcxm8RbmW

puts me at like 850 haste

[hazy breach]

Oh its dungeonslice

[mortal galleon]

does ds favor a shit ton of haste?

[hazy breach]

Nah its just a bit jank as sub now with haste breakpoints and lineups

[mortal galleon]

gotcha ill aim for 700ish haste then, thank you

[lilac stag]

That’s 959. Is trying to get to another gcd

[mortal galleon]

I assume it doesnt make sense to get another gcd

[lilac stag]

684-700 is what you want.

or 1100 if you’re running for ST

[hollow spear]

Was that huh related to my question?

If yes, I meant to go into dance with dn up and dn into sectec instead of sectec into dn (with one stack). This should increase your chances of getting two dn during the dance, or do I misunderstand something?

[hazy breach]

Yes you enter dance with DN if you can

DN or sectech

[wintry hemlock]

is 800 haste a solid breakpoint for us now?

Just came back last week so im trying to get back into it

[mortal galleon]

bout as close as i can get

[rain kernel]

Are we getting the turbo boost thingy for weapons n trinkets this week? And if so..is it one per week?

[wintry hemlock]

From what i read 800 haste with trickster is ideal for the extra dance time yes?

[mortal galleon]

if you dont have guidon

yes

[lilac stag]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[mortal galleon]

700 if you do

[wintry hemlock]

This is kinda where im at

[lilac stag]

Percents don’t matter

[wintry hemlock]

ik its numbers that do

[peak ice]

is there a way to sim 1 button assist?

[hollow spear]

Which is why your screenshot doesn't help 😅

[lilac stag]

You can pull the apl from simc github

[lilac stag]

Asks about stats. Description of what to do gets posted. Proceeds to post screenshots not doing that.

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[wintry hemlock]

Tbh i asked so i can read after my key ill look at the pic after

[hollow spear]

626 haste pretty cooked

Too much with flask, way too little without

[lilac stag]

Too little with or without

[hollow spear]

True, forgot that there's people without guidon

[wintry hemlock]

dont ahve :[ ima pug for it after this

[hollow spear]

You could haste flask for 626 + 165 = 791 and just get one gem with minor haste

There's nothing worse than just about too little haste. Seeing your dance run out before the next global or not getting your second sectec into blades, peak disappointment.

[fossil forge]

Perfect with hastefood

[lilac stag]

Don’t tell that to CN

[hollow spear]

Aren't the just going for one extra global and then dropping haste?

[lilac stag]

full on mastery into Diminishing Returns slop

[hollow spear]

Still no second sectec ig, but not as bad. I'd hate playing their version though, ngl.

[lilac stag]

as long as they’re having fun

[wintry hemlock]

Side note are those breakpoints universal? Like keys v raid?

[tribal blade]

a lot of high key pushers go lower in haste, but yes

[trail nova]

guys, im at 701 haste without flask, is it worth swapping food and gems to getting closer to 800 (dont have guidon) or just pop haste flask and get gems for the other stats?

[short radish]

you do whatever you need to get 800 haste

so if you use haste flask its fine

[hollow spear]

I watched an arcane mage guide yesterday, it's crazy. They don't even play missiles. Rip the class swap dream..

[drifting ether]

The orb build is fun but they are so weak 🥲

[peak ice]

2/3 of their choices are d tier

Fires not good either

[hollow spear]

That's just a tuning problem, casting only three spells is a design problem

Their opener

[peak ice]

Trying to solo delves felt so hard in it at the start of the season

Changed to frost

0 issue

[drifting ether]

Is only normal at the start of midnight I think 0 or 2 set but I was cooking with it 😂

[hollow spear]

Never enjoyed frost unfortunately

[drifting ether]

Arcane feels natural to play when you play sub rogue it’s like a 1:1 range copy

[hollow spear]

I'm hoping for changes in 12.1 that bring back missiles

[drifting ether]

Ooh yeah that would be fun, I never got to play that in tww but I seen the funnel

[hearty mural]

damn bro i just saw this..i appreciate you taking the time 💯 @lilac stag

[jade oasis]

fire is fun rn

imo

but tbf fire is the only mage spec i’ve ever liked

[peak ice]

It’s numbers are just

[hollow spear]

Will have to take that for a spin ig

[peak ice]

Not great

[hollow spear]

My hope is that mage is enough of a hero class that they'll bring arcane or fire back up

[hazy breach]

Gonna preface this by saying i dont think fire mage is actually good. But statistics on specs that are underplayed generally look worse than they really are, because most good players arent playing those specs

As an example back in dragonflight there was a hotfix patch that buffed assa by 5%, and sub dropped ~3% dps from that on statistics

Despite receiving literally no changes

[peak ice]

Yea that’s true, I don’t think it’s like fundamentally trash, it’s just frost does basically everything better than it

Currently

Plus better defensive

[drifting ether]

It’s a good season when mages not meta in m+ tho

Phys comp on the rise

[jade oasis]

yeah and i don’t even think there’s like

serious fire diehard players

atleast any i know of

[peak ice]

Then just being middle but having lust definitely makes getting into keys easy though

[hollow spear]

You can see glimpses of what weaker specs are capable of in the hands of good players

[peak ice]

Idk if there’s a class that’s like, so bad you can’t make it fine

[short radish]

time to beat the dead horse of raid buff again

or JUST MAKE DRUMS UNIVERSAL

[peak ice]

I think guardian Druid definitely needs its apex fixed or changed

It’s so eh

[jade oasis]

that one chinese shadow priest

[hollow spear]

Any spec not using its apex is a failure imo

[jade oasis]

what specs don’t use theirs except gdruid

[hollow spear]

I think they've fixed them all atp

[hazy breach]

Did they fix mistweaver

I know they were dropping it

[hollow spear]

Good question

According to wowhead there's an M+ build that drops it

Lemme check leaderboards

Yeah, first one I've checked drops it

The two specs coming out as meta drop their apex. Coincidence?

[peak ice]

Feel like if it’s even a question it’s a failure

You have to spend too many points in the Druid one to get like fuck all back from it

[livid cape]

Prot war for m.+ does 1/4

[random comet]

Stormbringer enhance shaman can do 2/4

But it’s close

[hazy breach]

Back during beta deathstalker had some 2/4 or 3/4 builds

[jade oasis]

deathstalker

[hazy breach]

But then they fixed apex working on DN

[jade oasis]

man i wish DS was better

[hazy breach]

It is

[jade oasis]

thematic is so much cooler imo

what

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker is noticeably better than trickster on ST

[jade oasis]

oh ST

[hazy breach]

Like 4% or so

[peak ice]

What %

Ah

[hazy breach]

But you need the haste

1.1k is quite rough

[peak ice]

Yea

[jade oasis]

that’s insane

[jade oasis]

do you even go DS on any raid boss tho

[hollow spear]

Have you pushed the changes yet, Eleem?

[hazy breach]

Lura and Voracious definitely, probably alleria and beloren too but

[hazy breach]

No, but they dont really change anything

Besides the number

[jade oasis]

how will i ever find another 400 haste to minmax those bosses

[hollow spear]

1.100 haste is just so excessive

[hollow spear]

Your major change was to always apex dn right?

[steady osprey]

May I ask why DS requires so much haste? I didn't see anything in the FAQ.

[lilac stag]

@short radish come heal a 12 pit with me and prophet

[short radish]

if i wasnt prepping for a meeting soon i would

[hollow spear]

Imagine going to meetings

[random comet]

Assume it’s something to do with fitting 2 DN evis into the blades window

Or 3? Idk

[tribal blade]

to have enough cdr on sectec since you don't have the 10% cdr from trickster

[hollow spear]

You need it to get two sectecs into blades and it gives you another gcd during dance, which ds likes

[steady osprey]

I completely forgot the trickster CDR on sec tec. Thank you for breaking that down for me!

[novel plaza]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[void jungle]

Guys, can we somehow sim 40 sec starting with the 2 supercharge points Vs without the 2 supercharge points? (From the Pre pull dance).

[hollow spear]

Do we get the hammer this or next reset?

[gilded ferry]

You mean the 298?

I think this reset

We'll probably upgrade wep right

[peak ice]

Should be tomorrow

Yep

Unless it drops like manaflux does

[cyan saddle]

sup you cute hoes. Just got discharged Saturady from open heart surgery. Any big changes in the past two weeks?

[vagrant sinew]

they rebalanced cloud cover which turned into a small buff overall for sub

[lilac stag]

[plush roost]

Open heart surgery eh? Well we switched from Cloud Cover to No.... Scalpels....

[tight fjord]

They are adjusting guardian druids again, but I think they forgot to add 1% more subt damage

Our weekly fix

[ripe mortar]

Kinda new to sub, have a question:

During Shadowblades, I assume we want to re-use dance as soon as it's up? If so, do we try to squeeze in the second Secret Technique so it's still within blades/dance, or do we wait until we can get a fresh dance for the supercharge?

[plush roost]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[plush roost]

^

[ripe mortar]

perfect, ty

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[graceful rock]

how early can i step on lura p3 knock?

[somber vortex]

progging vanguard - im so bad at dodging hammers. anything i should be doing to make it easier or am i just bad

[plush roost]

Thank you for acknowledging my brilliance

[plush roost]

Stand still when ES lands and move slightly forward after

Then yeah u have to be a gamer for the hammers coming from the other soaks

[lean arch]

does ilvl bump change our bis?

[peak ice]

From the void cores?

[stuck lance]

does atrophic posion still stack?

[lilac stag]

@short radish you missed great fun

[lilac stag]

Use inky black potion

[short radish]

im sure i did

[lilac stag]

We don’t have a bis so no. There are literally 20+ combinations of loot that are all within variance.

[short radish]

should i hold the upgrade on my vorasius dagger next week since it's got vers?

[lilac stag]

well I just helped prophet get his beetle Stabber so yes

[short radish]

but im rolling nexus point

[lilac stag]

Need to drop that vers for haste and

[short radish]

surely the upgrades don't have a seasonal cap or something

since its just weapons and trinkets

[lilac stag]

I’m hoping beetle is in my vault. Only rings are left on my nxp rolls

[lean arch]

is beetle better than edge from SR?

[lilac stag]

It’s all the same

[lean arch]

Im going to start rolling on dungeons since I got the raid trinks already so Im just curious

[lilac stag]

secondary stats are just a vibe. Don’t freak out over them

[short radish]

yeah for context i'm just pretending to be stupid

[lilac stag]

for context he’s not pretending.

[short radish]

im just a dude pretending to be a dude pretending to be a dude

[lilac stag]

I do need to see how close I am to 1100

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/the-dude-dude-dudeness-el-duderino-big-lebowski-gif-17446352

[lilac stag]

Suggested dungeons are in the pins. A lot matters on what you want to replace.

I want the nxp rings so that’s where my rolls went. I’ll go back to pit eventually for haste items.

[peak ice]

Skyreach is probably the best place to start rolling

Only like 1 of its pieces isn’t tier or really good

It’s also quite a small loot pool so the chance of getting the dagger is pretty solid

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

I’ve hit my daily limit of how are my stats screen shots.

gl with the vaultos

[lucid jackal]

nop

[lean arch]

Basically just looking for dagger since its the only thing in raid I didnt get yet (besides crown items)

Since we're progging Im on lockout and cant farm the early boss dagger

[lilac stag]

pit or sr likely. Idk what has less items. nxp if you want rings since it also drops a daggie

[main rivet]

Just do what I did and roll everything on Skyreach

[lean arch]

Am I supposed to want those rings?

[peak ice]

Sky has 6 pit has 7

[lilac stag]

the rings are very good for sub.

[lean arch]

We're close to killing paladins maybe I should just roll on them

for their ring

[shrewd lantern]

extending for paladins

💀

diabolical

[lean arch]

That bad?

[lilac stag]

wasting time on rekills that are likely very minimal upgrades at this point isn’t worth the time especially if you’re 2x a week raid.

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i mean i guess if you suck at reclear its not bad

[lean arch]

tbf I feel like if we could rekill faster than we prob wouldnt be stuck on pallys still

[lilac stag]

Don’t matter. Even if it’s a hour you’re wasting time since they’re likely still killing chim

I think at this point the largest upgrade for any raider was 500 dps

your mileage may vary

[shrewd lantern]

its more about extending for months

kills motivation sometimes

[lilac stag]

Welcome to 2x middle of the pack CE raiding.

Sloppy reclears do more harm than extending.

[short radish]

tbh this tier is probably one of the better tiers for extending

because once you clear crown

you just do belo prog and clear up to dragons/saladbar weekly

[shrewd lantern]

yeah barely anyone reclears crown

[lean arch]

Funny you mention bc Iv been thinking about joining a 3x guild

[shrewd lantern]

i mean some 2 days are really good

but it requires higher prep from leadership

and really good players

[eager latch]

do we not run first dance in keys?

[shrewd lantern]

you can if you want

[tribal blade]

18 caverns

i dunno if this is decent or not

but sub feels pretty good

[drifting ether]

Killing it sheesh

[tribal blade]

ty!

playing w/o skyfury feels pretty dogshit though

my god

[dry plank]

Replace Hunter with enha

[drifting ether]

Ya and warrior loses alot from it aswell 🤣

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[tall girder]

Replace hunter with dh and do 3% more shadow damage

[cursive oar]

shadow dance extended by 7 seconds during bloodlust . is this a bug？

[brisk onyx]

[brisk onyx]

you use second stat potion?

and your haste is the highest stat?

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[brisk onyx]

I am afternoon now

[vale pine]

8 am for me ^^

[keen dome]

Morning is the best time

[nocturne tendon]

looks like you pressed guidon first, then reck potion, which gave you a crapton of haste instead of mastery. make sure to pot before guidon if you're using this potion 🫡

[tribal blade]

but that juicy juicy skyfury

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-needs-to-bring-a-real-raid-buff/2304579 got a post going on the PTR forum

was thinking about maybe making a sub wish list too

with the classics like

1. more sectec dmg/charges/interactions
2. more funnel with banshee's blight
3. possible fix to haste situation
4. sectec redesign to combine all hits into 1

can't think of any others right now

[vale pine]

nice

[keen dome]

Poison toggle???

[tribal blade]

oh 5. update useless talents

[tribal blade]

haha yeah 6. poison toggle

[keen dome]

But that continues to be a good post. I think a raid buff is the single biggest and best change they could make right now.

Everything else is a bandaid whereas a raid buff is a fundamental and positive change to the entire class.

I wish I could post with my actual account on the US forums

[tribal blade]

yeah! that's why i made it its own post

i think putting out a long list in 1 post would kinda drown out the importance of a raid buff

[keen dome]

Yeah

I think we should keep harping on about raid buff

And if / when that happens, it's the next bit of feedback

[tribal blade]

i have optimism that it could possibly happen in this next upcoming patch

[keen dome]

Same

I think doing one thing at a time, to make it heard, make it the feedback is better than a long list or vague "fix it" imo

[tribal blade]

i think it would be a huge step in making rogue more relevant

[vale pine]

thats correct

its always better to state a problem and explain it

that bring a solution

most developers want to find their own solution, so knowing the problem space is important

[tribal blade]

i also learnt i shouldn't have made the post like the original one i did

where i was being more hostile

[vale pine]

It is fine, sometimes you need to be a bit more agressive

[tribal blade]

my buddy who did the same thing for arms when arms was a dead spec this tier said someone told him if you are any kind of hostile in those posts the devs will straight up ignore them

[tribal blade]

that can be true yeah

[vale pine]

It depends

i personally like to frame things more positively and ask questions

e.g. i understand why there was an incentive to simplify our cleave/aoe model

BUT

If you look at simulations, the diffrence from playing "incorrect" seemed marginal, very low

Which is a important point to argue further

[tribal blade]

that's true yeah

sub did get over pruned sadly

[vale pine]

if you bring the stable baseline of the player doing things incorretcly, having a rough estimate to outline the impact is good

because, if we think back

doing single target on 5, 6, 7 targets

still had a okay trade off

you got priority damage and did not sacrafice much aoe

it became rly bad once you move to very high target counts

but i would argue, players would intuitively go to aoe spells there

and with all this context given, i can focus on asking if the change was a net positive?

Because i think its easy to see that the impact was overestimated

and the result is fairly brutal, because AoE, which intuitively starts at around 5 targets

now starts with two

And you can add the context of performance

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm torn with wanting to go back to old nimble and not

i do miss being able to do cleave and choose to evis for prio

[vale pine]

because subtlety was for most of the time rly bad in cleave

TWW fixed it with nimble

[tribal blade]

but there's the good point that it tied our ST to our AOE in tuning

[vale pine]

now we are back at being the literally worse class in game

[keen dome]

So far!

[tribal blade]

yeah i really want to have decent cleave again

not even amazing cleave

[vale pine]

To be fair

[keen dome]

Same, I want basic cleave

[tribal blade]

just not bad

[vale pine]

i think having decent cleave

should be the norm

[tribal blade]

it should be yeah

if that's what raid design favors

[vale pine]

If you look back at legion

the initial subtlety design made a lot more sense

you had single target focus

and cleave/aoe was funnel

the funnel was extremely good to make up for the deficit

This design constraint was not understood/iterated on well

because in BfA

we suddenly got the funnel removed

which, if you look at it this way seems like

"wait, this creates a problem"

and the fix was black powder

but black powder did not fix the cleave

and if you remember back

it did not fix aoe either

black poweder initially was ONLY used on 8+ targets

assassiantions crimson tempest

did MORE damage with the initial non tick damage

than black powder

so if you spammed CT on sin, you would outdo a sub rogue spamming BP

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i remember CT doing more than BP haha

[native zodiac]

i just wish we knew the reason of them nuking nimble, its not like we were cleave gods or anything

[tribal blade]

i think it's because they wanted to make sub easier to understand

[vale pine]

The reason was that they wanted to simplify the rotation

[tribal blade]

in terms of builder/finisher priority

[vale pine]

and the aoe part was "difficult"

so they went all out and made it 2+ targets aoe

and removed nimble

[native zodiac]

such a dumb reason

[tribal blade]

because if you remember a big part of questions we got in here during TWW was asking about what builder/finisher to use when

[vale pine]

i think what was dump was

that we did not push back more against it

[tribal blade]

it was a bit confusing for sure

[vale pine]

i remeber discussion

[tribal blade]

but it did create fun gameplay

[native zodiac]

ye but that still applies today

just the answer is different

[tribal blade]

to a lesser extent but yeah haha

now it's more "what haste do i need"

[vale pine]

"from all things to complain, people talk about nimble 🙄 "
"its the same damage, why do people complain, we lost nothing"

[native zodiac]

thats why i dont get the change, it hasnt made anything easier it has only moved the goal post when you press black powder and you are completly useless in low target counts

[vale pine]

and i understand that

[tribal blade]

yeah as soon as i saw them remove strike and evis from nimble

i got very worried

[vale pine]

initially, aoe was tuned high

so the diffrence was low

now that aoe is not high

cleave is bye bye

removing tools to seperately tune both, just made the exact concern voiced

come true

[tight moss]

is it me or there’s a awkward timer between your 2 mins where your secret technique is coming back up in like 8-9 second so you want to use a spender but if you do there’s a chance not hitting 5 stacks of shadow technique due to RNG for the super charged secret technique + coup de grâce 😭

[vale pine]

I mean, you already use it on 2

[tribal blade]

i think they need to fix sub's cleave issue in our current talents

or baseline

[vale pine]

thats as simoke as it gets

we don't talk about stikr

ignore strike

but outside of strile

its super simple

[vale pine]

assassiantion got a full patch of talent reworks because their cleave was bad

so lets see if subtletxy gets the same

[tepid quartz]

Is there any advices for beloren progress? We are stepping in to MtQ tonight

[tribal blade]

you're likely to have enough even cutting it close because of how fast we gen sht in dance

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[vale pine]

optimize around the egg phase, you want to at least bank 2 superchargers before it

[vale pine]

To be fair, rogue in general is kinda mid

and i would also like a raid buff

[tribal blade]

rogue is very mid in cleave yeah

[vale pine]

thats not "bench if your dps is mid"

[tribal blade]

sub is at least quite decent on some fights

[tight moss]

true but i thought we want to have 5 stacks of shadow technique already up ready so the moment you dance you can use secret technique to get an extra shadow strike in

[vale pine]

we can pad on certain fights

like dragons

we have the best burst, so baloren is great

(best burst of rogue)

[tepid quartz]

I guess im holding coup too

[tribal blade]

i think i'm misunderstanding the issue you're having tbh

[vale pine]

you basically stop using finishers close to dance

you will have sht stacks that way

[tribal blade]

if i'm reading this right, it sounds like you're trying to go into dance with 0 CPs and banking 5 sht

[tight moss]

like im afraid to spend combo point when secret technique is up in 7-8 seconds, and if i do and didnt get 5 stacks of shadow technique in time to proc apex talent, im trying to use secret technique + dance the moment its up, so i find my self capping combo point and doing few back stab so at least the energy isn’t capped

[hollow spear]

I'm not sure, but my gut tells me that rogue wouldn't have been benched as much in its current relative state

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that's fine

[tight moss]

yeah is it better not to use raw evisecrate 7 seconds before dance + secret technique and just cap the combo point and spend backstab so at least the energy isn’t capped

[tribal blade]

yeah you can sit at full CPs for a few seconds

and press backstab to not cap energy

that's fine

[tight moss]

sorry it sounds a bit confusing explaining it

[tribal blade]

i think i get it now

and even if you cut it close sectec generates 4 sht from the clones

so you're very likely to have enough sht to apex your 2nd supercharged CP after sectec

[tight moss]

yeah i wonder if it’s a dps gain or loss by doing that getting super charged apex back to back spender from supercharged secret technique + dance -> apex + super charged coup de grâce back to back, or is it better just to spend that combo point outside dance window to get eviserate off

[tribal blade]

you don't need to apex sectec because it only applies to the phys portion which is quite small

also premed blocks the apex anyways

so you'll naturally not apex your sectec without needing to try if you do dances correctly

[tight moss]

ahh i see, thanks for clearing it up

[fringe lava]

honestly though now that i’m progging beloren the egg phase damage seems like a complete joke

[tribal blade]

it was extremely tight before, but the +20 secs make a big diff

[fringe lava]

bringing the egg down to like 32-33% in the first egg phase at this point and people are still uncomfortable with it

[void ocean]

egg phase doesnt have any dmg amp, right?

[tribal blade]

no dmg amp

[void ocean]

i did it only once and it was hc few weeks ago so i forgot

[fringe lava]

the whole fight just feels like figuring out 2nd p1 and its dead on a clean pull

[tribal blade]

yeah my guild's prog on it has also been quite fast

[void ocean]

ah yes, those clean pulls

some say they exist, others even seen one

[tribal blade]

i think not needing to optimize egg dmg makes the boss WAY easier to prog

[void ocean]

lel

[chilly dagger]

Do you guys think well see some Subs playing 21/22s? its all Outlaw up there it seems :/

[tribal blade]

hehe not surprising

[fringe lava]

people just be attempting to assassinate me by moving out of my quill last second

[tribal blade]

yes

in time

[fringe lava]

because the small birds moved and they need to hit it

[tribal blade]

there are sub rogues doing 21s currently

[glacial igloo]

hi guys, is there a big gap between Weapon Mastery and Omens of Ending?

[tribal blade]

either i'm dumb or i have no idea what this means

do you mean the talent weaponmaster

and something else

finality maybe?

[frozen edge]

yo, running puzzle box for m+ instead of guidon at 1.3k mastery is trolling right? somehow box sims better but i hardly believe xd

[tribal blade]

you're hitting pretty heavy DR at that point i think

but could be fine

[frozen edge]

i rly wish guidon is better

i hate casting box

[tribal blade]

guidon is good

[short radish]

then use guidon

[tribal blade]

there are rank 1 sub rogues running guidon

in fact i would say if your mast is that high

you would benefit more from guidon

than puzzle

[empty bobcat]

fully buffed with shaman in group I am at almost 90% mastery now and Guidon sims ahead of box for me - I am finally free

[glacial igloo]

I mean is the difference between Weapon Mastery 1/1 + Omens of Ending 1/2 and Weapon Mastery 0/1 + Omens of Ending 2/2.

[chilly dagger]

Youd say its a personal topic, that the current high keys players just enjoy outlaw more? Wox in Stream yesterday said, that outlaw just does straight 20-30k dps more and doesnt require resto shaman

[tribal blade]

are you asking about this

if so x2 finality is better than x1 weaponmaster

[frozen edge]

r1 sub is currently streaming 21-22s

[tribal blade]

oh well wox will be biased haha

because he's an outlaw main

but yes outlaw is in general better than sub in keys right now

but sub is currently performing pretty well, so if you want to push for title it's more than capable

[peak ice]

Guidon better would be broken

[glacial igloo]

Okay, I get it. Thanks a lot!

[tribal blade]

I CRACKED THE CODE

awesome

[wheat edge]

what does the deathstalker Improved sec tec mean

dont u always take imp sec tec

[tribal blade]

nah DS didn't take it before

because x2 finality was better than imp sectec

[wheat edge]

[tribal blade]

since evis does so much dmg with DN

[wheat edge]

interesting

[tribal blade]

but now gaining a talent point from dropping WM you can put it in imp sectec

that actually means DS does slightly better cleave/aoe in raid talents now

[vale pine]

haha, funny coincidence

[peak ice]

It doesn’t even seem like much of a nerf ngl

Bear feels way better with this build

[drifting ether]

Sheeshh

[drifting ether]

Why thas me aswell

[tribal blade]

he's being a traitor!

[drifting ether]

Slayer arms warrior is kinda game changer you literally almost dont press eviserate

[upbeat cradle]

that's because it's just a slight slap on the wrists lol

[tribal blade]

yeah in the 18 caverns i did my guildie arms was destroying the prio targets

[keen dome]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[grizzled hornet]

how can it feel better when you are spaming thrash macroed with ironfur and moonfire. i was playing bear as a 4th alt for fun to tank weeklies with friends and i hate it

you are playing no apex no 4set its cursed

[peak ice]

the raze build felt worse?

[grizzled hornet]

so pressing more than 2 buttons feels worse? i dont understand what you mean by "feels better/feels worse"

[oblique apex]

hey, is playing double arcanoweave lining an option? i got 2 myth daggers after rerolling and ask myself if theres a got alternative for embelishments without crafting dagger with hunt

[grizzled hornet]

it is an option and you could always sim it, your offhand weapon doesnt matter that much, its a stat/embelish slot

but i think it would be a dps loss to not have hunt

[oblique apex]

seems like, cant find any guide or even logs with some other build than hunt

[grizzled hornet]

as long as you have the highest ilvl weapon in your main hand OH is just a slot to help you improve stats you need

[oblique apex]

sure

[grizzled hornet]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[oblique apex]

ty

[cursive tundra]

went in to help a friend

my first 100% log

NXP

[peak ice]

caus the apex build feels bad?

idk what else to say

u sink a bunch of points into it and its meh at best

[grizzled hornet]

we are off topic and wrong channel so i am just gonna stop here

[peak ice]

we been talking about mages in here for hours

[upbeat cradle]

We don't have much to say about sub that hasn't been said in pins anyways 🐸

[eternal light]

hey sometimes my coup de grace does not refresh/give 5stacks of flawless form is it normal or im misreading something?

[hazy breach]

The target needs to be fazed for that

But it should be unless you are swapping target right before pressing coup

[eternal light]

hmm i see , its probably that

thank you

[tribal blade]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[subtle aspen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[radiant swift]

how many targets does nimble hit? not all i asume when there can be some, that arent fazed?

[hazy breach]

7

But nimble doesn't apply fazed, so not really relevant for this discussion

[radiant swift]

i have no clue why i wrote nimble i ment unseen blade

[hazy breach]

Unseen hits 1 target

[radiant swift]

but that

yeah i just reread

i see so its importsnt to not target swap

well before coup that is

on which target does shuriken storm trigger unseen? does that work any diffrent ?

oh thats why i tought about nimble - unseen blade also hits up to 7 targets but then i guess it doesnt apply fazed to all of them?

[tribal blade]

you flurry the unseen blade hit to 7 targets but it doesn't apply fazed

you can only apply fazed to more than 1 target with sectec

or cloud if talented

or i guess if you tab target you can "spread" fazed that way

[radiant swift]

well thats good to know

if im not mistaken coup goes from the target to the others

so i always swapped to the most middle sitting mob

but thats not very good it seems

what about the aoe situation? u shuriken storm and get coup

[hazy breach]

Your main target

[radiant swift]

which target do u attack

[hazy breach]

Sectech applies fazed

[drifting ether]

100!

[vale pine]

nicu

[hazy breach]

Nimble is based around you

So no need

[radiant swift]

which is my main target in that case

[radiant swift]

true just sit in the middle

[hazy breach]

Your target

[radiant swift]

understood - tyvm

[hallow mortar]

do we know anything about that voidforge comming today for NA

and any lura killers who did crystal with video

[trail rover]

Am I slow or is it super hard to get the second sectec into blade window with exactly 800haste and box? on dummies its almost impossible for me feels like there is always 1sec or less left when sectec is back up

[latent remnant]

i thought you could only really do that with lust no?

or i might be thinking of something else

[trail rover]

wasnt the plan to fit 2 dances into blades and then hit the 2nd sectec right before the second dance and blades end (if you dont have lust)

[latent remnant]

honestly I'm not sure if it's better to send the sectec there or to wait for next dance so you have it supercharged

[void ocean]

im not sure bout 800 haste and no guidon

but if u have 700 haste and guidon in regular burst u do get 2nd sec tech like 3 sec before blades end

if u add lust on top of that u get sec tech as ur first finisher in the 2nd dance

[trail rover]

yeah i used to just supercharge it with the next dance now i want to make it fit within blades and it feels super hard

[latent remnant]

the logs I looked at never sent the sectec unless supercharged so I just assumed that was always better

[void ocean]

im afraid thats not good

might be wrong tho, who knows

[trail rover]

with lust its alright, some seconds between dances then you can 2nd dance --> sectech but without lust it feels a bit scuffed but maybe im slow or should finally start bonusrolling for the damn guidon

[void ocean]

i mean the whole point we go for that much haste is to have 2nd sec tech in burst

[trail rover]

yeah thats what i thought

[void ocean]

without that u just get like 2 sec longer dance which is not bad but its not huge either

[undone cliff]

Try to go a little above 800 haste. I think that number is in a perfect setup

I have guidon and still sit around 720 because of gear I have and it helps with lag or messed up play

[radiant swift]

does anyone have the tabble with x haste gives this many extra globals

[void ocean]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[void ocean]

damn its not it

[radiant swift]

with pbox and 800 haste it was impossible to get another stec in

it was always 1 sec left (without lust) and it would land outside

[errant pagoda]

720 with Buffs or blank staying in the City?

[void ocean]

do u use dance macros?

like dance+sec tech, dance+evis etc

[real panther]

anyone know if I can see supercharged in logs?

[radiant swift]

i use dance + stec - ive tried it on multiple ocassions and it was not doable

[undone cliff]

Don’t dance unless you have sectec or blades up

[trail rover]

LOL not having a macro for the dance that starts without sectec could be the issue

[void ocean]

u need it for the second dance in burst

thats when i fire dance+evis

[undone cliff]

Which is blades

Just making sure I shared what I learned

[radiant swift]

tbh you kinda can make it havr enough cps to just play normaly

very often ud get refunda aswell

[void ocean]

im just saving on that delay

to fit in max possible globals

[radiant swift]

havrnt had issues tbh without

if unlucky it would sometimes not refund and u need an extra builder but its doesnt happen often

[void ocean]

that good, i didnt just understand why u replied to me 😄

[void ocean]

sec tech doesnt refund under premed, that happens always, its a bug afaik

[undone cliff]

I just replied because I wasn’t sure if you were using dance on CD. I messed up doing that in the beginning.

[radiant swift]

i ment more for the second dance

[drifting ether]

Should work I also done it with 700 haste pbox

[radiant swift]

un first u get so many sth stacks it dont matter most of the time

[void ocean]

well for the second dance i usually have time for one global between dances, which usually is backstab so i do start the second dance with full cp

thats why i fire macro

in special occasions if i dont have aa up i can go naked dance and strike if i have enough sht

[radiant swift]

thats intresting - is this with or without guidon? on almost every double dance blades i comr out of first dance with enough sth to bridge to the second