subtlety

[fallow ingot]

maybe if u have haste socket

[spare crypt]

you can shed off ~20-30 haste

you want to be at ~680 after oils

small minmax

[fallow ingot]

700*

[peak ice]

I prefer being on the higher side tbh

[red flame]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/766349238941777931/1131266466289819779/caption.gif

[fallow ingot]

u will never have 0 ping

[hazy lichen]

Brooo

[shadow lance]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spare crypt]

im sitting at 650 on 30ms

[peak ice]

Feel like if i key with people not in oce i suffer with the ping

[spare crypt]

wdym

lol

[spice escarp]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[hazy lichen]

I just realized I took a fucking Crit haste neck from vault

[red flame]

assuming you're on oce then or no

should be the other way around if not

[fallow nimbus]

Crit isn't so bad

[hazy lichen]

I have mythic wedding ring too

It’s so over

[red flame]

if it makes you feel any better i have half a stack of crit flasks in my bag that will now be useless

[peak ice]

yea ur actually probably right ae

still, feels a little bettter with 700ish haste

[fallow nimbus]

New weeks new bonusrolls

[exotic steeple]

gonna see zac in this channel when he wakes up

poor guy

[hazy lichen]

I took from vault but yea

[red flame]

feelsbad then off

vault is now like

bis item or rolls

no in between

unless you need sockets ig

[hazy lichen]

!bis

[spare crypt]

pop those bad boys when you play assa on vaelgor and paladins

solved

[hazy lichen]

Yea I took it before rolls were a thing sadly

[lyric patrol]

I knew outlaw was a trap...its one of those specs blizz never lets stay good very long -_-

[peak ice]

bruh i legit crafted like a stack or two before they dropped the notes

[hazy lichen]

My vaults have been super bad

[short radish]

@vale pine Can we change the !haste command to say

Haste between 680-720 (can include flasks and oils just not guidon)

[hazy lichen]

Best thing I got was that neck this week but now it’s not good anymore

[red flame]

Outlaw is always a trap, fake rogue spec

[spare crypt]

[red flame]

ooooof

ik the feeling tho

[abstract cosmos]

outlaw is femboy spec confirmed

[peak ice]

Rip, ah well, just sell em and buy the magisters

[red flame]

honestly

just gotta cut my losses atp

[spare crypt]

dw

[somber sun]

nah bro, id say assa

outlaw is too high apm

[abstract cosmos]

i play assa in keys men :.

[spare crypt]

0.7 they 13% buff assa

[red flame]

[exotic steeple]

outlaw is sigma spec

lets be honest

[spare crypt]

and you buy crit flasks again

[red flame]

hold on i have a meme for this actually

[spare crypt]

time is a circle bro

[hazy lichen]

Idk about being a pirate

[lyric patrol]

Compared to last expansion its not bad apm wise

[somber sun]

true bro

combat rogue with swords and guns

[hazy lichen]

Sub rogue more edgy and cool

[somber sun]

holy chad

[exotic steeple]

imagine ur pumping and gambling at the same time

so sigma

[somber sun]

yeah if we actually could run fatebound

sub fatebound would be funny ngl

[exotic steeple]

im just glad i dont have that smoke screen anymore

[lyric patrol]

No smoke back to premed all is right in the world

[fast vigil]

i got picked on by my RL for eating up small add debuffs on aleria, until i sent him a screen of how it looks like 😂

[red flame]

i lied ig i deleted it

f

[lilac stag]

[red flame]

i mean yea it can include flask but shouldnt

[exotic steeple]

yea that was a bit too dense

[red flame]

bc ideally you never run haste flask

therefore before flask

[manic glen]

The haste breakpoint is 700 w/ guidon, however every sim tells me to get rid of my haste and go to around 620ish

[red flame]

sim is a robot not a real person

i.e. lower amount on sims

[short radish]

idk people are too worried about getting exactly 700 as well

[lilac stag]

It’s doesn’t matter. If you have 150 haste from flask, you have 150 of crit/mastery on your gear.

[hazy lichen]

I think cause the ai doesn’t hsve input delay same reason they use guidon with dance at same second

[manic glen]

You mean, the sim that i've been talking to for the last few weeks... isn't my wife??

[lilac stag]

You’re just trying to confuse them even more. Get Guidon. Get 684-700 haste from any combination of gear, gems, enchants, flask and oils.

[short radish]

fine 684-700 then

[red flame]

true but also ideally wouldnt the play be to just adjust your stats so you can use mastery flask? & not have to go way over the breakpoint

[peak ice]

what if i have 683

[short radish]

but too many people go "what if i use oils? is that okay? what about flask????"

do i need exactly 700

[swift tinsel]

It’s almost like breakpoints are bad

[hazy lichen]

Right now do we use mastery or crit flask of vanguards

[red flame]

they are

hey wait a minute

[lilac stag]

Why does it matter if haste flask takes you to 700? It’s not dome special sauce in the flask

[hazy lichen]

On vanguards

[void ocean]

what happened to ur colour

[red flame]

@swift tinsel switching sides on us

[swift tinsel]

I don’t support any spec

I don’t like what blizzard is doing with this latest set of notes

And I’m swapping off rogue

[exotic steeple]

based

[red flame]

honestly

[swift tinsel]

So color doesn’t matter

[void ocean]

[lilac stag]

I don’t like what blizzard Claude is doing with this latest set of notes

[somber sun]

nerfing outlaw cause it performed a bit too well while dh has been top 1 since start of season ? Yeah I'd get that too ngl

[tribal blade]

man of principles

[red flame]

if it takes you to 700 yea but in a world where flask puts you at closer to 800 or something is it not a huge waste?

[short radish]

then you drop 100 haste somewhere else

[red flame]

which is exactly what i was asking

[short radish]

550+150 = 700

[red flame]

would you not just adjust your gear

[lilac stag]

My guy. Do some fucking thinking. If the flask takes you to 700 it means you needed it for the cap.

[swift tinsel]

I was barely engaged with sub then they added cloud cover which was exciting bc I wanted a burst infusion into the spec, so them removing that means I have nothing compelling me to want to play it

[lilac stag]

Jesus

[red flame]

no shit

[crude cloak]

Mastery is becoming better with change back yeah?

[mint swift]

So sub rogue gets a neutral and outlaw gets gutted or am I reading it wrong

[lilac stag]

Then stop acting like it’s a bad thing

[mint swift]

What on earth is going on in here

[exotic steeple]

we got buffed

we are meta next week

[swift tinsel]

Sub gets a net buff but burst nerf

[mint swift]

Change your name to world first green parser next week haha

The big boom

[exotic steeple]

even a 20% aura wouldnt help me get out of grey parses

im a bad rogue compared to other rogues

[hazy lichen]

Use the one button rotation that’s what I do and I get 90 parses

[exotic steeple]

im just here for the vibes

chill people

[mint swift]

On fairs

[exotic steeple]

if im not chilling with the silvermoon guards im here

[agile peak]

I find the retune kinda fucked.
"Lets make a talent viable pushing a spec to mid tier"
"Talent kinda strong, lets gut it and rebalance everything else"

[lilac stag]

Well outlaw kinda went past mid tier. We caught strays.

[red flame]

right where it should be

outlaw is an L spec

[hazy lichen]

God forbid a rogue spec touches top 10

Meanwhile hunters

[lilac stag]

Outlaw also dominating PvP so double whammy.

[exotic steeple]

who actually cares about pvp tho

i think wow has the worst pvp of any mmo

[serene tapir]

Blizz for one

[steel zinc]

I miss not playing cloud anymore. Idk felt great feeling wise

[serene tapir]

Is it set in stone cloud gonna suck?

[red flame]

cant speak on trying to get glad (actual rank for title + mount) but getting full glad set for xmog at least is a complete & total joke

[lilac stag]

There’s enough. Who actually cares about mythic raiding? Who actually cares about top 1% of keys?

[still gazelle]

These discords would be surprised when they find out that the vast majority of wow players don't do any competitive form of content or care about tuning

[exotic steeple]

i havent even done a single pvp quest for the neck, even though it would be a huge upgrade for me

thats how much i despise pvp

[red flame]

same, cba to do bg's

fuck em

s1 tww i only pvp'd for the glad set for xmog

[lilac stag]

You do realize it’s a pve quest

[red flame]

1200 rating in 2's & farming crates

braindead ez

full glad set

[hazy lichen]

What do they do just larp?

[exotic steeple]

i know u can run up against bots but still

[red flame]

the bots still are annoying af

[lilac stag]

So 4 5 minute pve games is too much.

[red flame]

i did 1 bg against bots

it did not go well

[exotic steeple]

8x 10 mins

[red flame]

5mins is a huge exaggeration too

more like

15mins

lmao

[exotic steeple]

• que

[hazy lichen]

I did PvP first week for the extra tier token lol

Was fun

[red flame]

of slow & grueling too

not like its fast & easy

[lilac stag]

You que silver shard mines. It’s 5-7 minutes tops to cap it.

[red flame]

tbf i didnt get mines

i did 1 & it was battle for gilneas

[tribal blade]

the hack for doing those games is you have to yell at the people on your team

to not fight on roads

[red flame]

the most slow + grueling bg experience ive ever had imo

[tribal blade]

and fight on objectives

and you'll win

[red flame]

we kept going bases not roads

the other team was hella overtuned it felt

[tribal blade]

the people doing the AI bgs are really really bad

[lilac stag]

That’s why you do mines. Everyone can fight in the middle and you’re fine.

[red flame]

also coulda been that

[tribal blade]

i won every single game doing that

[red flame]

i only did 1 & it was day 1 i think

so my experience isnt vast or anything yk

kinda limited scope

[tribal blade]

i'm very obnoxious haha

[red flame]

it was v bad time tho

[tribal blade]

i micromanage everyone

speak in all caps when it's important

and most people listen

[red flame]

shit thats prob a good thing in that setting tbh

[tribal blade]

you get the occasional person talking back and giving you shit

but most people just listen because they want to win

it's actually very simple, making sure everyone's not fighting on roads and fighting on flags/objectives

and then calling out incs

and telling people where needs back up

oh and also telling them not to try to take more bases than you can defend

[dry flame]

That is stressful

[tribal blade]

like in AB just 3 cap and win

because the bots are very good at overwhelming you if you don't have enough numbers

[tribal blade]

it is yeah, but preferable to losing

i did it for the pvp neck

[somber sun]

mythic raiding for the vibes ?

[exotic steeple]

wish u could just craft and dont make the stats 50/50 and just decide how much u need per stat

[dry flame]

as soon as i bonus rolled gaze, i stopped pugging mythics

stopped going into voidspire too

[somber sun]

damn retired already

[dry flame]

legit

hit 3400 yesterday solo pugging (dont recommend)

[exotic steeple]

i bonus rolled guidon, and havent touched the game since

[dry flame]

im kinda out of things to do

[somber sun]

yeah idk man

it comes to that point

where you just log in weekly for vault

and rolls

like no point pugging m+

literal shit experience

[tribal blade]

huge!

[dry flame]

im guildless pug lord, so its either m+ pug or quit

[dry flame]

[manic glen]

im at 3100 doing the same but as soon as you touch 14/15's people get really... special

[tribal blade]

people in that key range are really really bad

[somber sun]

hope things get better with upcoming buffs

or people just skip rogue buffs when reading patch notes

[exotic steeple]

3.4k is still easy no?

[manic glen]

Like i'm actively sitting here some keys and like "How are you here?"

[dry flame]

i was one key away yesterday and 3 runs in a row, tanks just bricked runs for no reason.
I know there are very few and we shouldn't be mean but man... they were special-grade bad.

[tribal blade]

yeah it's all 16s roughly

[exotic steeple]

i hit 3.4k easily but didnt go further

[tribal blade]

so not super hard

[tribal blade]

the worst bracket to pug keys i think is by far the one a few key levels below title range

as someone put it once

[dry flame]

lets just say, if everyone played the way I did (which was just fine, nothing crazy), i'd be able to pug 18s at least

but, things are not like that

[tribal blade]

those are the people who are nowhere near good enough to get title but have the highest IO in their guild so they have a super inflated ego

[celest root]

o7 my soldier...it seems same shit for mine haha

[somber sun]

how come ? Is boosting a thing in wow ?

[exotic steeple]

idk my pugging experiences arent that bad tbh, we only deplete like 9/10 times

[tribal blade]

what i just typed above

[somber sun]

oh

[tribal blade]

basically they're a bit delusional

[somber sun]

nah bro, if the guy was in top m+ leaderboard Id get it

but top guild io

[tribal blade]

but i've been existing in that bracket recently and it's been ok so far

[somber sun]

come on man

[dry flame]

i found getting keys from 15s to 16s the hardest step
That seems to be some sort of a filter, where the good players stop pugging (especially tanks)

[lofty cave]

!buffs

[tribal blade]

but it is very painful

because i'm used to playing at title range

so it gets very frustrating at times

[lofty cave]

yo were can i go to see new sub buffs ?

[exotic steeple]

wowhead

[shadow lance]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/augmentation-evoker-and-devourer-dh-nerfs-upcoming-class-tuning-381505?utm_source=discord-webhook

[lofty cave]

ty sir

[exotic steeple]

15 resi went smooth for me

[dry flame]

same

[exotic steeple]

by the time i had 15 res, my udk friend had 17res and just took me for a couple keys

[dry flame]

it was after that was a prob

[fiery fog]

i love waking up to 2.5% buffs

[exotic steeple]

so it was rather easy for me

[dry flame]

but that's no longer solo pugging, right ;d

[exotic steeple]

yea thats cheating

[dry flame]

i fully solo pugged the whole way

[autumn shell]

With no guidon we're looking for 800 haste?

[lofty cave]

im readin these notes are these buffs or nerfs to sub cause looks like they nerfing cloud cover ?

[shadow lance]

Check pin

[somber sun]

side note, lowkey you can pull off the second sectech with only 700 ish haste but you have to be very reactive

[raw frost]

you paly like before ;d

and have 2.5 % buff

overall

[tawdry belfry]

Guys with the new changed at the smoke and the overall dmg buff, is sub rogue buffed, same or nerfed?

[raw frost]

but from now on we should use old hero talent

[exotic steeple]

recently i had a 17 academy before timer was +1 minute, we depleted by like 40 secs , but now it shows as my 2nd highest key and still shows the overtime thingy

so weird

[shadow lance]

Read up

Legit

The message

above your

[tawdry belfry]

Yes

Was the timing

I was writing and didnt realize

[lofty cave]

thats it jus 2.5% buff overall wtf...

[somber sun]

bro

[exotic steeple]

2.5 is big

[somber sun]

devs dont like when rogue is a bit too good

[shadow lance]

And I said to check pin before ahaha

[somber sun]

this is already good

[tawdry belfry]

2.5 is big mate

[somber sun]

we didnt get a straight nerf

[lofty cave]

is it rlly?

[raw frost]

all rogues are decent now 😄

in m+ are good ;d raid are mid

[exotic steeple]

better than being skipped or nerfed

while other specs are heavily nerfed

[fiery fog]

so since our dmg in blades goes down a bit
if we truly need it we can run what we are currently running on beloren and the "old-new" talents everywhere else?

[tribal blade]

be grateful we didn't go backwards in dmg like outlaw

[raw frost]

but he has 5 % buff

is it sitll nerf for him ?

[fiery fog]

its 6% nerf

[raw frost]

pf D:

[tribal blade]

way bigger nerf to outlaw

[tawdry belfry]

Lol

[tribal blade]

they gained a shitton of dps from cloud

[tawdry belfry]

Blizzard just hates rogue

[tribal blade]

and only got a 5% aura compensation

[fiery fog]

if they didnt get a 5% aura buff it would be an 11% nerf or something kekw

[exotic steeple]

we rather take small buffs step by step than big ones and getting nerfed week after

look at dk

or dh

[lofty cave]

didnt outlaw get buffed in st tho

[fiery fog]

dh gets a slap on its wrist btw

[tawdry belfry]

Unholy has been destroying keys for 6 months already, and rogue cant be good for a week, this is non sense

[fiery fog]

5% will make them go from number 1 spec to number 1 spec

[raw frost]

well sub are still bvetter tho 😄

[tribal blade]

we're going to be stronger than right now on reset

[raw frost]

the talent as pain in the assanyway

[somber sun]

so for next patch just recraft into Haste + mastery and socket mastery gems ? Even for st ?

[raw frost]

now its good

[fiery fog]

enter "stats dont matter" picture here

[tribal blade]

these changes are making sub stronger

not weaker

[iron whale]

btw just wanted to say, in case the guy who works on Sub Rogue happens to read: good job on the fix for Cold Blood visuals; you read and fixed it promptly, and that's just how it should always be... thanks for listening 🖤

[lofty cave]

so do we still play cloud cover or no scruples since they buffed no scruples

[exotic steeple]

no scruples

we go back to old build

before 12.05

[tribal blade]

maybe this is blizz's plan

[fiery fog]

we can finally not backstab 3 times before going into cds

[tribal blade]

we're going to get like +2-3% buffs incrementally until we're number one

[fiery fog]

yay!

[tribal blade]

maybe fucking mafic was right

can't believe i just said that

[fiery fog]

but

[fiery fog]

getting buffs like that over such a long period doesnt help my progress :(

[tight fjord]

we out here boys

[somber sun]

again, do you really think they respect your time ?

[sick epoch]

So we're going back to premed, bugged version yet?

[tribal blade]

need you to sandbag now so we get more buffs por favor

[exotic steeple]

atleast u dont get dead benched

or worse get told to roll other spec

[tight fjord]

lmfao

just gotta play with ret/dk carry

before nerfs

[tidal solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/cocking-pistol-john-wick-keanu-reeves-john-wick-chapter-4-jw4-gif-2438417231913206222

[plush trout]

i dont understand how blizz tuning works, having a 99 parse in dmg logs yet a demo lock having 80 is above me with like 20k overall

[void ocean]

guys but the real question now is

are we reversing that puzzle box gif now xD

[fiery fog]

why would we

[red flame]

no..?

[tidal solstice]

i was talknig to my twin the other day. he also plays wow. i told him, if you ever wonder why rogues dont get buffs? because, fuck rogues, thats why

why no utility? because fuck rogues thats why

[void ocean]

cause mastery is gucci again

[fiery fog]

rogue has utility
until they decide to give said utility to other classes

mastery was gucci even before

[red flame]

has 0 to do w why pbox was bad

[tidal solstice]

vanish dont work on bosses for us, but its fine for mages and hunters

[void ocean]

a bit less gucci

was the gucciest after u got 700 haste and got everything u could on crit xD

[void ocean]

i tho u guys read eachothers minds n shit, why talkin 😄

[tidal solstice]

rogues used to be one of the only classes with multiple CCs
everything worth stunning is immune now but its all able to be mezed, knocked, incapacitated, slept

[red flame]

fr its actually such a slap in the face

its so saddening

[void ocean]

im saying that for like 15 years

since cata prolly

back when i was a pvp player and noticed everyone has better stunlock than i do

[tight fjord]

yes our kick should push back like 2 yards so it's usable on all the casts

[tidal solstice]

how to fix rogues
vanish - 1 min cd, works on bosses again
cloak - either real immunity for 3 seconds again, or 45 seconds for whatever the fuck this trash is now
energy cost removed from feint, cheap shot, kidney shot in pve
thistle tea removed. energy regen increased by 30%
slice and dice is now a passive, attack speed increased by haste %
outlaws mastery is redesigned and is now something other than vanillas chance for a double swing. i know were in teh sub sub but fr its such garbage

stun immunity removed from most mobs

trusight removed and deleted from the game

[tribal blade]

how to fix rogues:
real raid buff

boom

that's legit 80% of the work done right there

[thin sinew]

isn't like most peoples raid buff 5% and ours is 3.6% for some stupid reason

[tribal blade]

it's more so nobody cares about DR

and atrophic doesn't even work on everything

so it's extra useless

[void ocean]

thats 3.6% with like 50 caveats

[thin sinew]

well yeh

environment damage JK useless

[tribal blade]

but even if atrophic worked on everything

[void ocean]

i mean mythic Belo'ren rwf was the last nail on attro coffin

[tribal blade]

people still don't care about DR

[void ocean]

3 healed and no rogues needed

[upbeat sorrel]

what if they just delete rogue and give you a option to change your rogue to another class with same ilvl

[tidal solstice]

ill just uninstall

[short radish]

same

free me from this prison

delete rogue so i can quit wow for good

[lucid jackal]

Well that's because you needed enough damage to 2 phase eggs which rogue couldn't help with initially

[fiery fog]

the dr itself is really good for progress

the problem is

its only 10 seconds from when we last hit the boss
and it doesnt work when the dmg is from the environment and not the boss

[limber folio]

lets go meta

[lusty acorn]

wtf sub rogue more 7 buff holly shit

[fiery fog]

atrophic COULD work on beloren dive but doesnt because atrophic just runs out before the dmg comes

[swift tinsel]

If anything it should be like brand/touch

[fiery fog]

every other class gets their "just touch the boss once and its applied until one of you dies"

and we get a middle finger

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-gif-15737226872092416983

[lilac stag]

Have you tried using shuriken toss?

[fiery fog]

didnt think of that but isnt beloren kinda too far away for that

[lilac stag]

No idea

[tribal blade]

true that would make a big diff

but i would still prefer a dmg raid buff

[frank wadi]

Oh shit could sub be better than outlaw now

[tribal blade]

because it's far more potent, especially in keys

[lilac stag]

people only care about dmg
idgaf if numbing / atrophic is better for the .1%

[fiery fog]

how about a crit buff

since you know

rogues tend to be portayed as these weakpoint hitters

[brisk glade]

% buff or nerf for sub in st aoe?

any link for that if posible

[fiery fog]

omg give find weakness a raidwide buff

[lilac stag]

Crit dmg

[fiery fog]

everyonce gets 3% crit on that thinig or something

[tribal blade]

i honestly don't care if it's a super basic bitch raid buff

[fair cloak]

hello

read today patch notes

its nerf for us or buff

how much % we talking

[fiery fog]

nvm find weakness is sub only nvm that

[tribal blade]

lol true

[lilac stag]

[red flame]

[vale pine]

think roughly 700 is exactly that

[vale pine]

both

[swift tinsel]

Dmg buff fun nerf

[fair cloak]

dmg is all I need, i dreed progressing paladins next week as sub

[fiery fog]

help your raid and spec assa

[dreamy root]

Just play assa its brain dead

[sweet moss]

we gonna have to prio mastery over crit again now?

[fiery fog]

mastery is a little better now but crit isnt useless

[fair cloak]

dont have box yet, gonna nebula core this next reset. but yeah only play for it, assa still mid tho ;/

[sweet moss]

so wanna change all gems again😂

[lilac stag]

rogue doesn’t do cleave dmg

[sweet moss]

still crit enchants though ?

[fiery fog]

if assa is mid at vanguard then sub is in the sewer swamps

[lilac stag]

it’s a cleave fight

You’re there for atrophic

[fiery fog]

which doesnt work on any boss that casts his aura btw

[lilac stag]

it still helps with 5 healing

more so than not

[vale pine]

balance tuning tl;dr:

• Stats back to before cloud cover (balanced between mastery and crit)
• Talents back to before cloud cover (premeditation and old opener)
• Burst damage nerf
• General marginal buff (probably 1-2%, which is in a range that's not noticable)
• Deathstalker becomes an reasonable alternative to trickster on ST encounters again.

[thin sinew]

Pick your poison be completely useless or somewhat ok mythic paladins

[vale pine]

can't rly change design decisions

what happened was

in DF, assassiantion was weak in cleave

so it got a noticably better BF version to compensate, and a heavy aoe buff

[lilac stag]

anyways

[vale pine]

subtlety was similarly bad, but okay-ish in aoe

[lusty acorn]

i am gonna level warrior alt

xD

[vale pine]

but because of this heavy handed buff which made assassiantion the best rogue m+ spec ever since

they also added BF to subtlety in TWW

[thin sinew]

Yeh exactly,
You can always shame people you beat on damage as sub xD

[vale pine]

in a weaker form, so more in line with outlaw

now in Midnight

the design team decided, BF on subtlety was too much

so they removed subtleties BF and also nerfed our aoe

[fair cloak]

im second dps or first most fights

[peak ice]

Is warrior like strong or something?

[fair cloak]

except paladins im 11-12

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[fiery fog]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-scroll-crying-depression-doomscrolling-gif-4138822033792608878

[void ocean]

yea tho we never found out the reasoning behind that moronic decision

[vale pine]

i mean its perspective

[oblique rune]

I just rerolled all gear for crit haste cuz its good for assa m+ and sub raid, and now i have to reroll again fk sace

[swift tinsel]

And balance team has an utter lack of reasonable perspective

[fair cloak]

I wish our single target would be a+ at least so we are at least great at one thing, i feel like i bitched about it same in war withing

[void ocean]

tho i didnt like doing single target rotation on 6 targets but they could tune it so it becomes like 3 targets

[fair cloak]

time flies

[vale pine]

e.g. in discussions we frequently had people point out how they can't relate to people complaining about the nimbe change

because nothing changes

some individuals also pointed out how the nerf to subtlety cleave was needed to make sin/outlaw relevant

[swift tinsel]

I’m just mad they changed cloud cover into something actually fun only to neuter it

[vale pine]

so at least from my subjective feeling

it felt like opinions ended up very split on what was good/bad with the midnigth changes

cloud cover was a worse flagellation

[void ocean]

what annoys me and what i cant understand is why r they co afraid of rogues

[fair cloak]

that mastery buffing spell forgot its name, glad its gone

[swift tinsel]

I feel like I have nothing to look forward to on the spec anymore

[fiery fog]

i think the biggest design problem for rogue is having 3 melee specs which will end up feeling similar in one way or another

[vale pine]

and now got nerfed heavily

[swift tinsel]

Chasing big strike crits was exciting

[thin sinew]

Yeh the spec relevance argument is stupid.

When blizzard try to make every spec able to do the same thing otherwise they’d have left arms and marks crazy on paladins

[vale pine]

well yes, but that was why the design was more unique

[vagrant fossil]

I mean, you weren't really chasing big strike crits. It was just more dopamine hit when you hit them

[fair cloak]

I was assa entire tww but for progress of king swapped, fck that spell

[limber folio]

fuu, are you updating the guide for tue/wed?

[fallow ingot]

Was was the BIS rings before .5 please ?

[peak ice]

psb, bifurcation ring

[oblique rune]

So do we go old build and mastery once again?

[vagrant fossil]

Read the FAQ

Pin*

[limber folio]

wait until tuesday

[fallow ingot]

Nexus point set was not better ?

[thin sinew]

What sucks i just got the myth void ring from NPX 💀

[peak ice]

think tis much of a much

[red flame]

either is fine

bifurcation + psb or npx set

[limber folio]

just sim brother

[thin sinew]

Sim as sub

Lel

[fallow ingot]

i'm going to farn nexus tho, had perfect stats before .5 with theses

[limber folio]

???

[fiery fog]

as always
get 700 haste
stick everything else into crit/mastery

[limber folio]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/766349238941777931/1131266466289819779/caption.gif

no

just listen

[peak ice]

Can we not sim as a sub all of a sudden?

[limber folio]

to mr bot

you dont NEED specifically 700 haste

[swift tinsel]

Mr bot has issues

[fiery fog]

mr simbot is confused this patch

[swift tinsel]

Bc breakpoints are really fucking stupid

[fiery fog]

its 684 actually

[limber folio]

mr bot smarter then me anyways

[thin sinew]

Simming top gear makes you aim for 600ish haste in my experience so any item with haste will be replaced

[vale pine]

e.g. if we look back at legion, we had:

• Assassiantion: As a low mobility, dot based spec, the benefits of playing it was the easy execution and low reliance of boss uptime. Bleeds also allowed it to shine on very low cleave fights.
• Outlaw: The spec with a very high variance in output, which would shine once you got more targets or AoE due to BF.
• Subtlety: High mobility and burst, with focus on dynamic gameplay. The lack of good aoe/cleave was made up by offering funnel and strong single target damage.

each of the specs had a clear niche and purpose

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) percent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[vale pine]

its just that now

[fallow ingot]

before .5 stats : #subtlety message

[vale pine]

if you look at the same thing

[limber folio]

Rogue do low damage (盗贼伤害垃圾). same parse as arms war (评分红色，和武器战一样). Bring shame to guild (公会之耻). M+ instant decline (大秘秒拒). I stand in city like NPC.

[manic glen]

The pins say 2.5% buff, but thats using same talents as before.
Is it a nerf in comparison to what we had with cloud cover?

or are we saying 2.5% buff from previous, and just forgetting cloud cover ever existed

[fiery fog]

its a buff compared to what we play now

we just go back to the talents before .5

otherwise we would just keep playing what we are playing now

[fallow ingot]

I mean we dont have to complain, we gain damage, we have smother opener with premed and less visual shit with cloud gone

its a win win

[swift tinsel]

Nah

Losing burst sucks

[fiery fog]

it will be noticeable on beloren for sure

[vale pine]

alright i try to visualize it

[fiery fog]

luckily we killed it 2 days ago

[vale pine]

the changes

[fallow ingot]

Beloren will be a 4 heals fight now

and not a dps check anymore

[vale pine]

neither of the things that kept specs seperate are still existent

[fiery fog]

this looks like they took the good stuff from sub and gave it to the others kekw

[sweet moss]

lads for chimerus logs do we want to go in first or 2nd

[fiery fog]

for chimaerus logs you want to pad

[swift tinsel]

As I said yesterday assassination hoovered up every dmg profile

[sweet moss]

so 1st then, cause going 2nd u skip it

at end

ig

[vale pine]

i mean Outlaw also lost its BF niche

[swift tinsel]

And now in midnight it’s even more apparent

[vale pine]

but yes

objectively seen

[pallid jackal]

Damn so they reverted?

[vale pine]

subtlety lost almost all points which seperated it to the other specs

[vale pine]

well no

we still get the buff

so basically

[pallid jackal]

It seems like a buff right, yeah okay

[fallow ingot]

I mean idk about burst, our opener is not the highest one anyway, a lot of spec burst better then us

[sharp sapphire]

Sub needs a talent like assassins doomblade. A small passive DOT. Never understood why Assasination needed another DOT while Sub with the removal of rupture has none

[fiery fog]

the problem i have with rogue for raid is mostly "is assa or sub better" since they are practically doing the same thing

its like you have 2 specs which could be one

[fallow ingot]

i'm not agree, assa is pur boss dmg and his cleave sucks

like on lura cristals its so bad

[vale pine]

Tuning change ELI5:

• daddy Blizz added a new toy to your collection. This toy was higher quality than your other toys. (cloud cover rework)
• daddy Blizz takes away your new toy, but repairs/cleans your old toys so that their quality is up on par with the new toy it took away. (tuning changes)

[final pecan]

thats so fucking funny actually

lol

[fiery fog]

i kinda wish rogue had some kind of spec thats not melee dps

[peak ice]

outlaw should be guns

cause htats cool

[shadow lance]

Like sub cleaves sucks?

[tribal blade]

when i was running sin during S2 TWW tanks would literally change their routes depending on if there was a sin rogue in the key or not

[pallid jackal]

Guess I'm resocketing and reoptimising again

[tribal blade]

because you could delete prio mobs

[fiery fog]

i remember in tww s1

i was doing some keys with friends and they didnt play with an assa before

[void ocean]

Like mages

[fiery fog]

there was this city of threads mob (the anubarak kinda mob)

put a DM and kingsbane on it and it just popped

xd

[tribal blade]

yeah was very strong

esp when we were playing DS

[pallid jackal]

Yeah I liked the good burst we should have that imo

Probably still we are going to have that but still

[swift tinsel]

Not really

[tribal blade]

but it just begs the question why does sin get that funnel

but sub got ours taken away

[dense galleon]

Remember when we had Shuriken Combo removed in BfA? Still waiting for its replacement

[swift tinsel]

They directly nerfed the talent that made blades feel like a burst cd again

So we won’t play it

[vale pine]

I mean, in the end

the change is not rly doing much

so we happy

no more cloud cover shananigans

and can return to old opener

[swift tinsel]

That made gameplay interesting

[fiery fog]

i lvoe shadowstrike into cds

[swift tinsel]

Now it’s a boring flat line spec again

[pallid jackal]

I liked the part where SB was more noticeable

[swift tinsel]

No high points to get excited about

[peak ice]

defo like the premed opener more

[pallid jackal]

But I think overall it is a buff right so it might be more noticeable

[vale pine]

gameplay didn't rly change with cloud cover

especially after they made the buff refresh

[pallid jackal]

Bit neutral but yeah

[fiery fog]

we only didnt play premed pretty much

[low marten]

I personally hated the new opener. Felt awkward compared to premed

[fiery fog]

which changed the opener to more backstabs but thats it

[swift tinsel]

But it created moments of excitement because your burst cooldown felt like a burst cooldown

[vale pine]

i was super excited

to not see boss mechanics the cloud obfuscated

[pallid jackal]

Yeah I agree but it still might be more noticeable with bit of buffs compared to two weeks ago

[swift tinsel]

I honestly never really encountered any issues with that

[vale pine]

we lose a bit of burst

[manic glen]

It felt like they've removed something thematic for the class for just something we don't see now which sucks, even if the cloud was blinding entirely

[vale pine]

but baseline buff makes up for it to some degree

[limber notch]

Wonder if it’s still worth it to take cloud cover on Bel for egg

[vale pine]

probably not

[swift tinsel]

It’s more the implication of what was taken to give that aura buff

[tribal blade]

nah

[vale pine]

the buff duration was nerfed heavily

[peak ice]

Feel like we only had this cloud for liek a week and peopel acting like its a huge loss that we dont get to throw smoke on the floor now

[tribal blade]

you'll have it for like 1/4 of the burn

[vale pine]

so you don't get 30 sec of benefits

[spare crypt]

egg is moving to 40s

[vale pine]

but only a very short time

[spare crypt]

if your group has close to decent damage you wont need to cook that hard for yours

[vale pine]

we also can't say for sure

[swift tinsel]

Because it was a temporary return of the burst that was taken from the spec with midnight

[vale pine]

how big of a change it is

because not everything is logical

[swift tinsel]

And sub without burst feels really lame

[limber notch]

Crit getting replaced by mast again yea?

No more 1300 crit, back to 1300 mastery

[sharp bolt]

I'm not bothered by the changes. I wanted one of two scenarios to take place.

1. Reduce the visual restriction on cloud coverage.

Or

2. Reduce the value of cloud coverage below another option.

[spare crypt]

rogues keeping crafters in business single-handedly

[low marten]

Outside of blades our dmg will be higher right or am I reading that wrong. So a bit higher sustain dps

[pallid jackal]

I wonder how much difference it is

[vale pine]

its likely a mix of both on st

with more heavy mastery in m+

just like it was before cloud cover

[manic glen]

https://tenor.com/view/yuimetal-gif-2236335851178412850

but are we better than sin in raids and m+ now

[swift tinsel]

CC was a ~20%+ increase to st burst

[fiery fog]

always have been (in raid)

[limber notch]

It’s a 30% nerf on a 24% damage increase, so whatever that maths out to

[swift tinsel]

During blades

[vale pine]

are we?

the change should be a slight nerf to baloren egg damage

[manic glen]

*are we

is what I meant to write

Im tired

[peak ice]

eh

[vale pine]

and we don't rly perform better on any other fight than before

2% isn't a noticable amount of buff

[limber notch]

I’m pretty sure Assa is still better in m+ over like 18

[peak ice]

think tis bout the same as it was

[manic glen]

how far were we behind sin?

[pallid jackal]

But that's not all on burst right?

[vale pine]

assasisantions aoe and prio/funnel is just better

[peak ice]

a bit behind in m+

[swift tinsel]

Losing this

[fallow ingot]

Can we already sims a top gear with the changes ?

[vale pine]

well yes, we lose burst

[swift tinsel]

Is why I’m upset

[vale pine]

but our baseline gets higher

so it makes up

[limber notch]

That’s all on burst, 7% overall damage buff, to evens out. More consistent

[vale pine]

would still argue overall

[swift tinsel]

I know the baseline goes up

[vale pine]

nothing changes

[pallid jackal]

I see, thank you

[limber notch]

Seems like it

Net neutral prob

[final pecan]

i mean thats expected cause restelath nad funnel benefit

[fiery fog]

excluding vanguard
sub is either ahead of assa or pretty much similar to assa

[swift tinsel]

It’s not just a case of Number Go Up

[fiery fog]

with 2% sub pulls ahead slightly

[swift tinsel]

For my enjoyment

Of the spec

[low marten]

A buff to nerf basically so we remain the same. Good old blizz

[swift tinsel]

I like doing big burst damage as sub

And that was taken away, given, then taken away

[pallid jackal]

Yeah okay so burst still higher than before, losing the cloud smoke and such

[limber notch]

Bring back flag so I can do all my damage in 15 seconds and then do nothing for a minute

[tribal blade]

the big one was you could do bigger more dangerous pulls, like 1st pull cinderbrew you could pull more muscles safer if you had a spec with high funnel

[swift tinsel]

That is the whole of why I’m unhappy with the patch

[limber notch]

Yea, burst will be higher than before cloud cover, but less than current cloud cover

[pallid jackal]

Haptics, not sure if the burst will be affected that much

[swift tinsel]

What

[pallid jackal]

Like @limber notch says

[swift tinsel]

You’re losing 150% crit dmg and uptime on cc

[limber notch]

Burst will absolutely be affected

[vale pine]

going from wcl, applying a 2% buff would essentially put us roughly at the same spot as assassiantion (90%tile mythic)

[swift tinsel]

How tf is that not affecting burst

[limber notch]

If anything that’s the only thing affected

[pallid jackal]

Yeah but not That (should be in italics) much

[vale pine]

tho our burst is lower

[peak ice]

this seems fine?

[vale pine]

so its unclear if we can even utialize this 2%

[fiery fog]

yeah but vanguard is pulling sub down quite heavily

[crystal atlas]

What dungeons are we using bonus rolls on now since we are back to mastery haste?

[fiery fog]

if you exclude vanguard from overall sub is already better

[peak ice]

skyreach?

[vale pine]

skyreach is still rly good

[swift tinsel]

Okay so if it’s a marginal or even unnoticeable baseline buff but we lost burst that’s a net fun loss

[limber notch]

My boner rolls are locked away in chimera hell unfortunately

[crystal atlas]

for boots? even if you have mythic crit mast boots?

[peak ice]

dagger, cloak, boots are real good

[swift tinsel]

Like

That’s shits

[vale pine]

haha, true

[tribal blade]

agreed sub is fake on overall raid metrics because of paladins

[vale pine]

also tier set

ye

[limber notch]

The game knows not to give me gaze, I’ll fry too hard

[peak ice]

Oh yea, pretty much anything from sky is great

[sharp sapphire]

well the best thing this week was the ridiculous number in 1st pull AA and Nexus. Last chances for that dopamine I guess

[peak ice]

idk if theres a dud pull from it

[vale pine]

skyreach has a lot of good loot in general

you don't want mastery exclusively, but a mix of mastery/crit

[limber notch]

I sent a couple in pit

[crystal atlas]

managed to get the pit dagger

so changed the voracius dagger to that

[vale pine]

pit is also nice, but has a higher loot pool

[limber notch]

They blessed me with ring early

[swift tinsel]

Pit pool is all good for sub except cloak

[peak ice]

Its not like a bad trinket though

[crystal atlas]

Did get the legs during the few times I rolled in pit

i still got 2 rolls left

[lilac stag]

Cata

[swift tinsel]

Crit/haste ring, neck, bracers, dagger, belt, mastery/haste legs

[peak ice]

the capes crit mastery isnt it (Nvm i read ur writting wrong)

[lilac stag]

cloaks are such low budget

[somber sun]

Would be decent to get everything from there ( ring and cloak are the only meh gear )

[swift tinsel]

Idk im not sold on cata cloak w vers

[swift tinsel]

Ring is huge wym

[pallid jackal]

Mine are also at Chimaerus still

[swift tinsel]

Heavy crit haste is great

[tribal blade]

i saw a few rank 1 sub rogues running that

[somber sun]

Depends on sim

[lilac stag]

Vers still good. Craft a cloak if that one item is stopping you from rolling there

[somber sun]

But generally yeah

[tribal blade]

i think having some vers changes barely anything

[vale pine]

like pit

[swift tinsel]

I’d rather have skreach cloak personally

[vale pine]

oh i forgot, dagger is crit haste too

[swift tinsel]

If you don’t have access to myth crown/lura neck choker is great alternative

[still gazelle]

If this is my haste with all these gems, I should just gem Mastery Crit yeah? Since I mostly do keys?

[vale pine]

true

[somber sun]

Yeah that neck on myth track is decent asf

[vale pine]

pit def. not a bad dungeon to roll

[swift tinsel]

Esp since it’s very easy to get haste elsewhere

[tribal blade]

drop more haste down to like below 720ish

[merry bloom]

im at 20.01% haste , 33.45% crit, 45% mastery. Should look for less crit more mastery?

[broken saffron]

Yo. where can i read about the overall effect of the upcoming changes?

[crystal atlas]

probably noit worth rolling pit I got dagger and pants from rolls and 2 vaults ago I got bracers

[peak ice]

all the other myth necks from dungeons are mid

[vale pine]

ye, its baciaslly:
get 700 haste and then fill up with crit/mastery

[fiery fog]

ii can only get the legs and neck from bonus rolling piit now

[gusty wharf]

Why is hungering victory good if it has vers on it ?

[swift tinsel]

Ye that’s why I don’t even sim anymore

[lilac stag]

I think when I started simming them every cloak was .1-.2% of each other.

[fiery fog]

both are good

[sacred jewel]

im like 5/7 bonus rolls into pit trying to get the crit haste weapon, now it’ll feel worse since i’ve already recrafted my gear to crit/haste aswell

[swift tinsel]

I just look at my haste and available gear and adjust

[haughty heart]

Bruh i liked the cloud cover gameplay

Seemed fun

[lilac stag]

Blame outlaw

[livid frigate]

Same tbh and it didn’t last long

[tribal blade]

small amount of vers and easy dagger to acquire

[livid frigate]

What did outlaw do ?

[swift tinsel]

Them being -6% even with a 5% aura buff lmao

[still gazelle]

Would you recraft the 40 haste on the dagger to Crit/Mast?

[haughty heart]

Seems like outlaw benefits a lot from that

[swift tinsel]

And still playing trickster

[fiery fog]

just recraft and switch gems and its gucci again

[livid frigate]

I got the haste mastery one on myth

[lilac stag]

Existed and turned into Icarus with cloud cover

[tribal blade]

nice nice

[gusty wharf]

Not if you don’t mythic raid 😢

[livid frigate]

Why didn’t they just nerf it for outlaw then

[lilac stag]

because hero talents

[swift tinsel]

Bc fun police don’t discriminate across specs

Meanwhile they’re changing them separately

[gusty wharf]

I got a myth edge of burning sun is that decent for sub?

[peak ice]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

Unless they forgot to add the line about removing a fazed stack for sub

[livid frigate]

Ah okay fair enough hopefully I don’t have to change too much next patch

[brave moth]

So what, we got a bit of fun with Cloud cover now back to the old talents.

[tribal blade]

honestly literally any dagger is good

since we care mostly about the wep dmg

[somber vortex]

Premeditation is back???

[livid frigate]

Hopefully I can push for 3400 io as sub because I only got 3k today

[swift tinsel]

Should have buffed blades instead of aura buff

Or in addition to it with the cc nerfs

[tribal blade]

i like this cook

[swift tinsel]

It’s just annoying

[brave moth]

Bring back acrobatic strike and rogue will be top again

[swift tinsel]

Flat buff when nerfing burst

And blades is very mediocre without cc

[tribal blade]

would be very cool if sub got burst niche back

[swift tinsel]

Yep

[livid frigate]

I mean I got fucked over with pulls with cloud cause shit is always getting moved

[swift tinsel]

You didn’t need to stand in it

[lilac stag]

You didn’t.

[brave moth]

I think it perma refreshes now

[livid frigate]

Oh really thought I did

[swift tinsel]

The buff refreshed itself when they fixed the energy cost

[lilac stag]

literally fire it off and it’s up for 20 seconds

[obsidian cosmos]

Considering raid encounters, I think having that burst was more beneficial than having sustain...

[livid frigate]

I guess I didn’t read that XD

[brave moth]

WE ARE ABOVE HUNT AND MAGE. WE WINNING

[haughty heart]

Kekw

[peak ice]

Dunno how ae

[livid frigate]

I find that funny when most people I can keep up with

[haughty heart]

No way, thats fale

Fake

[swift tinsel]

That’s at +20

[brave moth]

We cant be above blizz's fav children (hunt/mage)

[haughty heart]

Ok it makes sense then

[livid frigate]

I mean I doubt most of us are pushing above 16s

[peak ice]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-mn-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict

[swift tinsel]

At more representative/all key levels it’s rogue bottom

[peak ice]

I wonder why the mages are so low at 20+ though

[brave moth]

No dmg.

Or just other classes are better

[swift tinsel]

Less survivability

[peak ice]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[swift tinsel]

If they’re falling over now that’s a liability in +20’s and higher

[somber sun]

Wait, so no more ups and downs in damage meter ?? 😔

[somber sun]

Ret paladin on the 6.4% ?

[abstract cosmos]

idk why i found this funny

[peak ice]

Rogue’s are only 3% of the total pop though

[livid frigate]

I wonder why rogue are so low

[somber sun]

Cause the class sucks lol

[peak ice]

Pally highest

[swift tinsel]

Pick any number of reasons

Tuning dependent, niche utility that others just do better

[dreamy wedge]

To be less cynical, I think leveling tunning for rogues is terrible and makes many new players not bother.

[livid frigate]

I haven’t had an issue and I’ve played rogue for years

[dreamy wedge]

When you start with other classes you klls stuff like 3 times as fast.

[swift tinsel]

Literally had someone complain about that in guild last night lol

[somber sun]

Would you rather play a pally that can spec into 3 different categories, high uptime with insane defensive and offensive cooldowns or a rogue with 3 damage spec which all suck

[peak ice]

Paly doesn’t really appeal to me idk

[somber sun]

Yeah it's quite boring

[wraith zealot]

hi guys how saturday going

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel time to fury

[swift tinsel]

lol I’m actually considering mine

[lilac stag]

as rogue looking as I could get

[swift tinsel]

Shockingly close lol

I usually go for the big beefy plate sets like amirdrassil

[lilac stag]

I’ll get it prepped for 12.1

12.0.7 should make the gearing even easier

[wraith zealot]

guys i do more mythic + so i dlike ask somne who knows is haste is still 700 whit certain trinket ofc or i better go full mastery and dond bother about haste much

[peak ice]

700 haste

Then the rest

[lilac stag]

hahah dagger animations on fury are funny

[swift tinsel]

I’m focusing my energy on making gold between now and when they announce stuff for 12.1 and I decide if I play that season

[gleaming crane]

Is s2 coming on August?

[wraith zealot]

but is better have more mastery then crit if i get 700 haste ?

[swift tinsel]

Going through the motions of myth prog

[peak ice]

Yep

[wraith zealot]

i wonder how much crit is enough any soft cap ?

[swift tinsel]

It doesn’t really matter

If you’re mostly doing m+ just aim for haste breakpoint and whatever mastery/crit gear gets you there, favoring mastery

[brisk onyx]

COOL

[wraith zealot]

righty

[gleaming crane]

Or is there no Date Release for Season 2

[wild vine]

no

its fair to say we arent even close

[paper siren]

So is that upcoming change a nerf?

[brave moth]

s2 should be around august september

[thick knot]

nerf burst, buff overall

[thin sinew]

https://imgur.com/a/7KsyCKl

[brave moth]

We have like 13 more weeks of the stacking buff and fair to say we will have 1/2 weeks at 15% buff

[dire forum]

how you doing sub brothers

[peak ice]

Man the outlaw channel is not happy

[thin sinew]

outlaw is never happy unless they're broken OP

[peak ice]

That’s true

[livid frigate]

I doubt I will get that high but I am gonna aim for 3400

[thin sinew]

At 17's it doesn't surprise me people are still meta fishing to make up for skill diff

[peak ice]

Yea especially for pug stuff

[paper siren]

Real

[dire forum]

it feels good to see grps declining me over 2x dh's

[worthy valley]

Yo guys, I farmed the shit out of outlaw gear on my alt (now main). WIth those changes, if sub's better, How fucked am I in terms of gear? 😄

[silent snow]

did sub get more dmg or less dmg after the tunning today?

[thin sinew]

Firstly did you learn the lessons?
Don't chase tuning? 😛

[dire forum]

TLDR: 2.5% buff, back to old talents, Mastery = Crit

as per pinned note

[worthy valley]

Well I leveled it up last week, didn't really chase it I was gearing for the spec i played 😄

And I mained rogue last exp so more so returning to it

[peak ice]

Think weapons is probably the biggest hurdle

[worthy valley]

But yeah now I gotta prep for anything to avoid being benched 😄

[thin sinew]

ah fair. So many people do though hence why all the shadows say play what you enjoy

[void ocean]

!box

[wicked jolt]

Puzzle Box (mastery on use, channel) Use:
Use Puzzle box after your initial Shadowstrike/Shuriken Storm in the opener, before your major cooldowns. This means using it as if it is a 3 minute trinket.

[peak ice]

Idk if swapping to sub is going to stop you getting benched though tbh

[thin sinew]

well about that

[worthy valley]

Hahahahah

[earnest crane]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[thin sinew]

careful what you're about to ask Moths

[vivid shoal]

oh man now i'm nervous

[strong jay]

i have this super strange bug where my shadow dance doesnt work for like 1-2 seconds after my first dance in shadow blades

has anyone had that happen?

[lilac stag]

you clipped guidon. Reload

[vivid shoal]

my guild is on m vanguard now. is it still the play to switch to assassination for this one?

[thin sinew]

Yeh, we was discussing this earlier. you CAN play sub but you're griefing pretty hard

[peak ice]

What is the damage difference roughly

[strong jay]

what does clipping guidon mean?

can i prevent it somehow?

feels like it happens super often

[paper siren]

If we are going back to old talents, for m+ is it still better to use the myth guidon over the myth puzzle box

[lilac stag]

use trinket. Wait a second. Then use CDs

[abstract cosmos]

is that mythic+

?

[thin sinew]

paladins mythic

[abstract cosmos]

ah ye assa

blasts

on that

[strong jay]

aha, i thought that was just an optimization thing

[abstract cosmos]

i got a fat log playing assa

[strong jay]

but if it causes that bug i guess i have to

😭

[peak ice]

People play fire mage?

[thin sinew]

That's the whole damage stack

[vivid shoal]

i havent played assassination at all this expac, but i'm guessing it's still easy to pick up?

[thin sinew]

Honestly it's a fight fire should be good on but it's just so clunky now

[abstract cosmos]

play assa

its hella

fun

[paper siren]

Sub needs a nerf imo

[abstract cosmos]

kinda ass on single for energy

u do nothing once u run out

but u get kings back in 1min so its not too bad ig

[thin sinew]

i defo need to try RNG my way to mythic puzzlebox or at least hero puzzle on dragons atm so won't be long :S

[clever solstice]

is it real?

[livid frigate]

I’m thinking of assa a go but not sure

[peak ice]

Yea why not

[sick epoch]

Premed bugg is solved?

[paper siren]

Allegedly not a bug

[peak ice]

Worth using now though

Well after the update

[digital hornet]

For the haste breakpoint, is that pre flask or if you hit with haste flask you’re good

[swift tinsel]

with flask

and gems/mana oil

[loud pilot]

how is it only a 2.5% buff if we get all damage increased by 7%?

[swift tinsel]

bc cloud cover is nerfed

[vale pine]

nope, but we just won't play cloud cover next reset

[swift tinsel]

we were at X, cloud cover put us at Y, cloud cover nerf + aura buff puts us at X+2.5%

[sick epoch]

Oh:(

Was more or less fun

[peak ice]

Anyone know how to get Valeeras dagger? It’s in the like item list and says delves but I’ve never seen it

[swift tinsel]

probably not until a later season

[peak ice]

Dam

[forest meadow]

am i misunderstanding the notes or is the faze change (3 to 2 stacks) only for outlaw and not for sub?

[paper siren]

If we are going back to old talents, for m+ is it still better to use the myth guidon over the myth puzzle box

[abstract cosmos]

i use guidon anyways

i love the movement speed

its nice for AA first pull

[forest meadow]

puzzlebox burst in m+ is crazy

[vale pine]

we expect to stay with 3 stacks

[forest meadow]

guidon feels nice tho

[forest meadow]

gotcha ty!

[vale pine]

can't confirm before patch tho

[forest meadow]

yeah just seems odd for the hero talent to change for only outlaw, but i assume its likely because of the cdr in that spec

[woeful egret]

did they fix premed bug?

[alpine wraith]

nope

[vale pine]

i mean, we change back to what we had before cloud cover

which seems like a net positive

[cursive vapor]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[plush trout]

with the new build around how much crit do we need after 700 range haste and mastery

[wild vine]

however much the sims want you to take

[hexed wave]

hey been busy all week, whats the main class tuning summary, is sub and assa ok and outlaw nerfed? plz say yes