subtlety

[tribal blade]

i would love to be able to sim gear again without busting out the calculator

[graceful osprey]

I know people have mixed feelings about reforging but it would be funny if they added that back lol

[thin sinew]

I still find it weird just how much people hated it.
Like i get not liking to have to reforge everything whenever you get new gear but that's sorta what we do now anyway just with whole item pieces

[tribal blade]

reforging becomes weird because then everything becomes bis

because "i can just reforge it"

but i did enjoy it while it lasted because then a bad piece didn't feel like a complete waste

[thin sinew]

like wouldn't even be considering reforging is they didn't keep adding breakpoints in

[tribal blade]

maybe they could bring back a system where you can only reforge like 3-4 slots of gear

[red flame]

There would still probably be a technical bis tho

Especially how sub interacts w secondaries

[tribal blade]

there definitely would be

i was playing very casually when reforging was a thing, and everyone hate it because it was impossible to get loot from other people in LFR and normal/heroic

[thin sinew]

It would just give us an extra lever to balance stats but i know for most specs it's completely pointless / annoyance

[red flame]

It already is tho 😭

[tribal blade]

nobody would give up any gear they got because they could just reforge it

[red flame]

I don’t understand that point

Most ppl just need roll to try to sell anyways

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't know now, i don't do that content anymore

[graceful osprey]

Ideally, for retail, I’d love the idea of different builds being good for a spec based on stats. There could be a mastery/crit build, haste/mastery build and so on. Would also be cool reintroduce more RPG themes like armor pen

[fossil forge]

[thin sinew]

I couldn't even get a decor item off a pug without them wanting 100k so reforging wouldn't change peoples greed xD

[red flame]

Ppl just need roll when they have a higher ilv item & then be like “if you wanna buy it make an offer” & it’s always ridiculous overpriced & if you don’t buy it they just vendor it

Just for extortion purposes

[tribal blade]

lol sounds about right

[red flame]

Ye

So even if they added reforging not much changes tbh

[tribal blade]

but i think reforging introduces a whole other set of problems

i would be down for that system where you can only reforge a few pieces of gear

[graceful osprey]

Rings and neck?

[tribal blade]

maybe yeah

or any slot

[red flame]

True & real, no tier gear possibly

[tribal blade]

just capped to like 2-3 or something

[red flame]

Ooh or that

Actually

You might be cooking

Put a unique limit of 2-3 like how it is for embellishments

But for reforging

[tribal blade]

yeah so you can very quickly reitemize stats

and make a mid/bad piece of gear better

[red flame]

That would be sick actually ngl

[tribal blade]

i think reforging ALL your gear is excessive

capped would be dope

[red flame]

valid

[tribal blade]

i remember the reforging addons lol

[thin sinew]

I mean shit you could make it a profession thing

[tribal blade]

could yeah

[fossil forge]

ts wont drop

[tribal blade]

ideally something where swapping it is fast though

[thin sinew]

idk not like a JC thing but possibly an engineering thing so that profession isn't dog water anymore

Even just an item they make

[red flame]

They just need to make gadgets great again

That is all

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm eng on my rogue and it's useless

[red flame]

Fr

[thin sinew]

same i refuse to drop it for the utility from old expansions

[red flame]

I might would run eng

[tribal blade]

haha i don't care though

[red flame]

I just keep a bag full of niche useful items instead

[tribal blade]

i like having engineering for the wormholes

[thin sinew]

but i dropped JC for alch as my server is dead so jc is sorta pointless around the gem rat race

[red flame]

Bc eng doesn’t have enough by itself to merit it

[thin sinew]

did someone say wormholes?

[tribal blade]

engineering was actually mega useful when you could only safely use bres items as an engineer

non engineers risked dying or getting polyed

[red flame]

Only think making me consider eng is the lootarang

[tribal blade]

i use them ALL the time

[red flame]

But tbf it there was a non-eng version

I’d just use that

[tribal blade]

btw i have seen SO many videos about the tank shortage in wow recently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxCINwq8fB8 watched a bit of this one just now

[graceful osprey]

Always been an engineer, will always remain an engineer

[tribal blade]

same i don't care enough about professions to swap

[graceful osprey]

As much as I would love for blizzard to make engineering cool or useful, they won’t

I do wonder tho, are we going to be stuck with haste, crit, vers and mastery forever lol

[tribal blade]

i REALLY want them to do something about vers

like make the DR only work in pvp or something

[thin sinew]

it's a very lazy stat

[tribal blade]

i think it's crazy that if vers is good for your spec you can have like 10-15% more DR than everyone else

which is what we had for a long time

it's incredibly powerful

i also find it funny that i got railed by people in here during DF when i said was stacking more vers for DR and they were like "just go full mast DR from vers doesn't matter"

[graceful osprey]

I do wonder how wow would be if they transformed it into an ARPG like Diablo or PoE

[thin sinew]

gets one shot

WTF our survivability sucks arse wtf blizzard

[tribal blade]

LOL trueee

my saving grace was during TWW when zeroess was building for more vers as sin

dropping mast for vers and taking the dmg loss to survive in high keys

I WAS RIGHT THIS WHOLE TIME

[thin sinew]

when we were mastery/vers it was great fun for pvp just rocking up with pve gear as if i had full conquest xd

[tribal blade]

haha so true

i seriously miss stacking vers

we would no joke be one of the lowest deaths in raid stats if we still did

[limber folio]

does feral have this dog of a ST in keys

[shadow lance]

YEs

[limber folio]

well damn

[shadow lance]

Just had the same 10 mins ago

[limber folio]

same feral?

[tribal blade]

doesn't matter when they bring good aoe and the best raid buff+endless utility smile

[shadow lance]

No, low st feral ahaha

[limber folio]

xd

[fiery fog]

dude my lousy 276 dev dh is just so much stronger than my 283 sub

its crazy how overtuned they are

[tribal blade]

it's gonna stay that way

i'm guessing

[fossil forge]

law with sub gear goes hard

[fiery fog]

for this season at least

[fossil forge]

main gauche go brrr

[fiery fog]

like

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[fiery fog]

i was doing 19s with some friends yesterday and i was doing more dps than the 284 boomkin with bis everywhere and he barely managed to keep up

[tribal blade]

not a great look if the new spec is mid and nobody plays it

[fiery fog]

dev is just way too broken

[tribal blade]

sucks 🙁

[clear aspen]

anyone know if a bonus roll in a +10 and a +12 will share the bad luck protection? so no duplicates?

or should i stick to the 10s since I rolled on one before

[tribal blade]

can't stop thinking about reforging now, cap it to 2-3 slots of gear and let it reroll 80-100% of a stat into any other stat

[tribal blade]

same yes

[clear aspen]

thx

[random mason]

that's just almost crafted gear

[tribal blade]

true! less annoying crafted gear lol

[balmy gate]

meta 😄

[grave wyvern]

what is the range of blackpowder ?

i wonder caus of the 2 drake boss

[surreal orbit]

Would this have been way better if the fight wasnt so long? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2PNHvkd7ZCRGXWLh?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=20

9:27 kill lmao

[swift tinsel]

iirc 10 yards

[tribal blade]

thought it was 8 yards w/o acro now but no idea tbh

seems quite far

[swift tinsel]

95% sure its 10 yards and nimble is 8

[tribal blade]

that sounds right

[swift tinsel]

storm/bp both 10

[tribal blade]

it's range def doesn't feel like 8 so i think you're right

[grave wyvern]

so if tank does not move drake at the begening i'm beter going with single target talent ?

[tribal blade]

on mythic?

[grave wyvern]

hero

[tribal blade]

or heroic

ah ok

tanks dont' do that on heroic

until the end of the fight

don't think you can until the end

[swift tinsel]

their hitboxes are quite large so bp should hit unless they're quite far

[grave wyvern]

you can in myth ?

[tribal blade]

yeah the dragons are tanked very close to each other on mythic

[swift tinsel]

and its also funny bc they can be nearly on top of each other and not get the buff

[tribal blade]

a lot less space to play with on mythic

[tribal blade]

lol true

i think the glooms are one of my least favorite mechanics of this tier

holy shit

the amount of times i've exploded

from my own fault or someone else assassinating me

[quaint breach]

wait, can we Just enter the cloud for a sec and then ignore it without loosing dps?

[swift tinsel]

thematically cloud cover is pretty sweet, and I'm happy with how it plays atm with the buff refreshing itself

plus, burst good

[shadow lance]

According to solo, it's a bug

[swift tinsel]

it is

but a nice one

[quaint breach]

been gimping myself on certain pulls just to place cloud well for nothing then 🥲 oh well

[swift tinsel]

I mean it being stationary and needing to dip in and out is something they've removed from other specs

notably frost dk with their old oblit cleave requiring being in death and decay

and tanks like bdk and prot paladin have it but they're the ones dictating if mobs stay in it or not

[surreal orbit]

anybody know what other current encounters will insta kill you like Araknath if you shadowstrike

I learned the hard way and was afraid to use it to open on Rukhran after lmao

[cinder marten]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

yeah it should have like a fart cloud that follows our character model around !!

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't mind having a cool smokey spell effect on my character model

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/peanuts-snowman-charlie-brown-packing-in-snow-gif-16023676

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-smoke-weird-gif-3564183

how I'm tryna be

[slate fable]

!log

[ember yarrow]

how long is today's mainte?

[swift tinsel]

says just an hour

[ember yarrow]

where did you check?

[swift tinsel]

bnet launcher says it

[upbeat sorrel]

i was in a 17 ws and they hit us with the 15min to server down message

[quaint breach]

eu or us? or both

[upbeat sorrel]

us

[swift tinsel]

launcher banner said there was maintenance before logging in an hour or so ago

[upbeat sorrel]

reading is not my strong suit

[abstract vapor]

Because I’m low on haste I hold one of my second-dance-during-SB’s supercharged CBs until the last second or two, casting a second supercharged ST.

I’m assuming this is bad since it’s costing me a few seconds of finishers during dance + SB just to wait for the above scenario? Simple answer is more haste, but until then, stop doing this?

[sullen hare]

Considering damage outside dance is ASS you shouldn't be doing that

How much haste do you have?

[odd knoll]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[abstract vapor]

~660 😬

[atomic bobcat]

660 with or without oil?

[abstract vapor]

Alright lemme get out of bed please hold

[atomic bobcat]

ur very close to whats needed

[sullen hare]

What consumables are you using? If you're not using blood knights (haste) that will get you over the hump

[fleet acorn]

can someone explain me pls on lura do i need to hit with each beam 1 orb in p2 or do i need to just hit last orbs with beam?

[tepid trellis]

in seat?

you wanna hit all beams into the glowing ones

[fleet acorn]

lura hc

[tepid trellis]

oh p2 lura

yeh every beam needs to hit an orb

otherwise you go kaboom

[sacred jewel]

ideally across each other to cancel out the pull in effect

[sullen hare]

There should be a marker where you stand with the line so it hits a ball and gets soaked

Most groups do an X formation with tanks and melee on one half and ranged and healers on the other half

Kinda like this

This is gonna sound like the stupidest thing you've ever read in discord but it's like the old grade school mitosis diagram

[foggy estuary]

First thing that came to my mind😂

[tepid trellis]

thats how its done

went and grabbed out raid plan for it

[sullen hare]

Oh it's a cross angle now?

[tepid trellis]

tilt your head sideways

and its a cross

same shit

[sullen hare]

Sorry I'm American and the only cross that matters was Jesus Christ's

-# [Nashville accent] thank you Jesus

[vale osprey]

Any Belo'ren myth proggers/killers know if the CD timings on lorrgs are all pad timings - in a prog sense, is there anything bad about sending blades at approx 20sec like most of the top logs do to pad bird damage?

[tepid trellis]

no thats fine

you phase at 1:50 on purpose anyway

to egg

[lilac stag]

Now it’s an X

[somber sun]

sorry for my ignorance, but out of curiosity.. Is it possible to just stand still for the players that are targeted by the galv or they actually have to aim it at the void spheres?

[vale osprey]

Alright thanks, was just checking it didn't mess up the supercharger build up towards 2nd bird set

[dusky yacht]

But now the x marker looks like a cross

[somber sun]

if the pattern is also met as shown in the picture ofc

[timid rose]

The orbs are moving at a set pace, so you just need to know timing/pacing and you can set so when it fires off at you it'll hit the orb

[tepid trellis]

they way its actually done is that you put down markers that people just plant on so they dont have to react to the moving orbs

[somber sun]

ohh fair fair

I always thought you had to aim it

even if the teams order is set up

[dusky yacht]

Lmao we are aiming this shit and making people panic last second cause we gotta move a li'l

[tepid trellis]

https://www.twitch.tv/stealthi/clip/CalmPunchyChoughCoolStoryBro-dUO9coxlzbDtJFsx

[white nova]

How does one get the sub-trickster badge by their name

[spice matrix]

You need 1,000 hours on trickster

[dusky yacht]

And over a million 5 min training dummy runs

[tepid trellis]

#subtlety message

[dusky yacht]

[white nova]

Brothers, I have that

I am powerful now

[dusky yacht]

You are Dogue

One of us one of us one of us

[white nova]

Stab stab stab

[sullen hare]

You need to demonstrate a 1.00 sec gcd after using coup de grace. That's the only way to demonstrate mastery

That's why I haven't earned the badge yet 🙁

[shrewd lantern]

that aint happening

[white nova]

Isn’t that impossible?! lol!

[silent sphinx]

should i be crafting something else with embellishment after replacing farstrider's mercy ?

[swift tinsel]

the real badge of honor is being a Member and New Member after four years

[swift tinsel]

you want to keep that in your offhand to have the hunt embellishment

[silent sphinx]

ty sir

[spice matrix]

test

[crystal atlas]

Any tips for paladins prog.?

[spice matrix]

now im stuck with DS

[white nova]

DS? I’d rather die, until it’s meta 🙂

[spice matrix]

1100 haste

[swift tinsel]

banger interaction love these two

[somber sun]

spectate the fight

one of worst fights you can do as sub

[swift tinsel]

the worst*

and not by a small margin

[crystal bone]

we'd look so much better on overall all bosses if it wasnt for that fight

[sullen hare]

It's a current bug yes. Coup has had a 1.2sec gcd since it was added lol

[white nova]

Why can’t they fix! I need my gcds to be not shit.

[sullen hare]

Million dollar question right there

I paused my sub when I got sick of the backlog of bugs not getting addressed and only growing

[tight fjord]

Is there still a Sim for a funnel rotation on the theory craft? Like during dance, shadowstrike/evisc, and outside dance using storm/evisc

[sullen hare]

So probably never

Subtlety doesn't funnel

[tight fjord]

Would this become more St than just a st rotation

[sullen hare]

Subtlety hasn't funneled in a long time

[sullen hare]

I don't count nimble flurry last expansion because we were just doing aoe damage with a single target rotation

[tight fjord]

If subt doesn't funnel what's going on here in a 19 overgrown ancient

I ended the boss effectively 50% faster than the dh, and 20% faster than ret

[sullen hare]

Subtlety does good boss damage is all

[lilac stag]

1. BP hits like a truck
2. Your priority dmg options is hit the focus target with strike, toss in one storm from lash and do dmg. It’s not funneling

[sullen hare]

The dungeon talents are basically 2 talent swaps for sub but much more involved for other specs

[lilac stag]

funneling is shuriken combo using an aoe builder (Storm) to slam evicerates into the funnel target.

[sullen hare]

BP hitting like a truck only took what, 10 buffs over the last two years?

[tight fjord]

I'm talking zero powder all evisc for prio rotation

No pad

[lilac stag]

Which just dulls your dmg

but you do you

[tight fjord]

Yea but logs parse dont matter if I time a key better

[timid rose]

well, if the rest of your group just has native aoe pad built in, you play to what your group does well

[sullen hare]

It's not like hitting BP is going to make the boss not die though

[tight fjord]

I would parse better with BP pad

And reduce their funnel

[lilac stag]

If it makes you feel better pressing evicerate. Have fun.

[sullen hare]

It's not padding if the adds need to die hope that helps

[lilac stag]

Want to do more prio, hit strike

whatever lets you sleep at night

[sullen hare]

Don't accept cope from a ret paladin of all people

[lilac stag]

[serene notch]

Interesting convo…..

[tight fjord]

In my screen shots I think I was using storm/evisc during dances, but I want to try again with strike/evisc dance, and storm svisc outside dance

For the boss damage, let them get funnel

Faster key

[swift tinsel]

if you want prio damage, use strike over storm esp with cloud

sub's boss damage in keys is good bc we sacrifice like no aoe to do it, and vice versa

[tight fjord]

Kk yea

My Stat balance is more crit anyways right now bc of outlaw offspec

[swift tinsel]

but we don't really funnel meaningfully

sure technically storm->evisc is but its kinda pitifully so

bc the benefit of storm in aoe is more cp but sht covers that during dance and evisc is a noodle outside dance so doing it then doesn't really matter

[iron imp]

If you want prio wouldn't it make more sense to just roll Assassination? That's like their thing in keys

[tight fjord]

Yes so I guess for my science I need to find out what it looks like with strike/evisc dances and storm/BP out of dances, compared to storm/evisc out of dances

[swift tinsel]

that doesn't help sub in keys

so kind of irrelevant

sin dumpters sub in 19's

but homeboy is playing sub

[lilac stag]

Outside of dance dmg doesn’t matter. You want prio you strike and force apex in dance. Those adds still need to die so BP/coup away.

[swift tinsel]

yeah evisc really really sucks outside dance esp in aoe so not casting bp is a little troll

why tickle one prio mob when you can bp blast all

also BP gets buffed by Potent Powder at all times (in vs out of dance), Evisc does not have any talent that does the same

which is kinda funny

also, imagine if secret technique got the talent support bte does

[lilac stag]

I’m amused how often sub and priority still comes up.

still get the odd funnel discussion

[iron imp]

Sub funnel was beautiful in its glory days. Then they massacred my boy

[steady sail]

I think it was more about generating combo points using storm into ST finisher, not about thinking the damage on the adds was adding to prio damage right?

[fleet acorn]

Premeditation is a small loss to take (~0.5%), but you can still take it if you prefer it. (You would drop Ephemeral Bond)
why would u not take that ? way better on faster kills

[swift tinsel]

I mean it is still funnel, just insignificantly so

[hazy breach]

!premed

[swift tinsel]

so by the strictest definition

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts clone cannot proc while Premeditation is up, as you are not expending any Shadow Technique stacks. Which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[swift tinsel]

ig it depends on if you consider funnel only being the damage siphon aspect like Singular Focus or Wounded Quarry, or the presence of other targets increasing damage into one target

[lilac stag]

But your get more prio by sending strike and forcing apex than casting storm in dance.

[fossil forge]

outlaw gaming

[swift tinsel]

bc those two get used interchangeably a lot

if its pure damage funnel sub does not do that

[lilac stag]

Does it have funnel?

[swift tinsel]

unless you play DS

[steady sail]

In dance sure, but outside of dance if the opton is backstab or storm I believe was Malaka's query

[fossil forge]

press button fast mob die all i see

[left ledge]

sub does crazy funnel dude

[fleet acorn]

yea u need to hit the shadow procs for that too but in opener i dont even get the proc with 2 shadowstrike since the shadow techniques are so slow since we specced out of "warning signs"

[tight fjord]

Yes Cheri, generally I understand we sacrifice way too much to do this but I’m considering certain pulls, overgrown ancient being a great example, where I would rather do anything possible to kill the boss faster. Letting the funnel classes funnel, sacrifice a dps meter for a faster key

[toxic igloo]

Sin is better than Su

Sub?

[left ledge]

the funnel goes CRAZY

[left ledge]

in m+ yes

by far

[swift tinsel]

in higher keys yes

[hazy breach]

What

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/robocop-id-buy-that-for-a-dollar-dollar-commercial-gif-4918928

[toxic igloo]

@swift tinsel what about Outlaw vs Sin?

[swift tinsel]

once mobs live past sub burst and long enough for sin bleed spread

[swift tinsel]

outlaw be shootin

[lilac stag]

Outlaw has better defensives. Outlaw wins.

[left ledge]

pretty sure defensives wise

sub is by far the tankiest spec

[swift tinsel]

it is

by far

[lilac stag]

if only it could cleave

[swift tinsel]

but between outlaw and sin

[left ledge]

this spec genuinely doesnt take damage

outlaw and sin are kinda same no?

[hazy breach]

Not by as much anymore since outlaw has higher uptime on cloud cover

[left ledge]

oh hm mtrue

[swift tinsel]

ye true

[left ledge]

cloud cover

i didnt think about that

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

15% dr every 30ish sec

[fossil forge]

[left ledge]

yeah outlaw def tankier than sin then

[toxic igloo]

That is a benefit, Sub has a lot of self healing

[lilac stag]

outlaw def feels weaker than sub defensive wise. Assa is like paper.

[swift tinsel]

sub basically gets all free tertiary stats in talent form

[left ledge]

guys imagine nimble flurry wasnt EXECUTED

[toxic igloo]

What does Outlaw have that makes it tankier than sin?

[fossil forge]

Press ar more

[left ledge]

#subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

fade is a crazy talent alone, plus EE

[tight fjord]

Frequent cloud cover that’s it

[fossil forge]

=more cloud

[swift tinsel]

imagine if the spec with EXECUTIONER Mastery had EXECUTE after having nimble EXECUTED

[toxic igloo]

@swift tinsel EE?

[swift tinsel]

Exhilirating Execution

leech from finishers

[toxic igloo]

Ah yes

Ty

[odd sandal]

So without premed, is it just Ss-vanish-ss into finishers? And then before the next dance just pool combo points?

[hazy breach]

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[desert whale]

Is Sub around mid pack in terms of performace this seasson in m+

[ornate lake]

Depends on the keystone level.

Sub damage is front loaded in 90s by big bursts(and a small burst every 20 second). If a pack lives more than 30 seconds or so then sub damage drops like a stone.

At higher keys you either need much more frequent bursts (eg. demo lock 1 minute tyrants) or sufficiently high burst that packs don't live more than 25-30 seconds (unholy and demo).

At 15-16 keystone I packs die within this range anyways, but on higher keys sub struggles

[red flame]

Sub not having an execute button is genuinely saddening

[ornate lake]

Assa players will start doing drive by at blizzard office if sub gets an execute niche

[swift tinsel]

They can gaslight themselves into thinking that

[red flame]

What if we just do to warriors what DH’s did to warlocks

& we just

[swift tinsel]

the spec that hoovered every damage niche

[red flame]

Take the ability

[swift tinsel]

'they can't have our execute or prio damage or funnel or cleave"

[red flame]

“They can’t have our resource or weapon proficiency”

[lilac stag]

Oddly enough 3/4 were sub specials.

[rich ibex]

!prem

[lilac stag]

Just give everything to assa. It’s fine.

[swift tinsel]

• the blizzard motto

[keen dome]

they should give sub whirlwind

[swift tinsel]

"no other rogue spec can have execute" both warrior dps specs have it

[red flame]

I think sub should get execute & basically death grip but it’s like scorpion’s “get over here”

[swift tinsel]

two if not three warlock specs have execute

[red flame]

& life would be complete truly

[keen dome]

I agree

give us a shadow yank

[red flame]

Spear grips + shadowstrike teleports

God that would be amazing

[lilac stag]

Waiting to see if I get sent in paladins on Tuesday. Healing was struggling as well as some dps

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-money-futurama-gif-6882124657810317443

[brisk onyx]

Does feint work on lura P2?

[somber sun]

yeah

[tulip viper]

sim kings, is there a way to set a sim to force athe 800 non guidon haste, my logs keep recommended gear loadouts before my haste breakpoint and its making reviewing gear options from vault/crests difficult. - any thoughts? its recommended i drop both haste rings and end up at like 530 ilvl, (same ilvl across all options)

[lilac stag]

Unless you have huge haste items. Just take off weapon oils.

Outside of that start doing math in top gear.

Get guidon.

[serene notch]

We seem to be middle of the pack

https://mythicstats.com/dps

For raw output

[lilac stag]

And?

[serene notch]

I was replying to a question

My discord kinda behind

[serene notch]

This one

[foggy estuary]

The comparisons are bit dishonest, because the gap between 16 and 22 is huge. 6 up on that level is insanely min max area in terms of group comp for the most part so sub is not that represented in those keys, correct?

[serene notch]

I always took logs for keys with a grain of salt for lots of reasons. But data is data it’s up to the reader. I find it more tolerable than someone’s tier list that talks about their feelings.

[grave wyvern]

how can i find what is wrong in my raid logs ?

[lilac stag]

use !log

Eventually someone will look at it

[grave wyvern]

!log

[foggy estuary]

Tier lists are another low representation factor as well. Everyone wants fotm group.
Rogue bad, stand in city like npc

[brisk onyx]

Does anyone know how to get back to the previous boss after killing Alleria? It seems like no matter what I do, just leave VS

[grizzled gust]

Sorry if this is a frequent question but in AOE settings when do I shuriken storm over shadowstrike/backstab?

[grizzled gust]

Cool thanks.

[pliant canopy]

Is anyone experiencing a bug where it says dance is up but you cant use it? Having it happen a fair bit atm

Like here I was spamming it off CD but wasnt going off

[hazy breach]

Dont macro your guidon with dance

[pliant canopy]

Is that the cause?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[pliant canopy]

Doenst really answer my question

[warm marlin]

if you press dance too soon and do not extend the duration with the haste from guidon or other sources, then it still locks you out of casting dance for the duration which that dance WOULD have lasted if the guidon haste had applied

[pliant canopy]

Okay

Thank you mate!

Is that why people dance pre pull?

[warm marlin]

you can carry 2 supercharged points into a raid boss

so you dance before pull to have them up

[twin quartz]

I don’t macro my guidon with dance and it still happens to me when I hit guidon like half a second to a second early. It’s so annoying

[quaint lodge]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Shadow Dance before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press Dance early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[empty bobcat]

is hunt or arcano embelishment better for M+ ?

[left ledge]

you use them together

its not one or the other

[empty bobcat]

kk

like for havoc for example you wanna use 2 of arcanos

removing an embelishments requires a recraft right?

[swift tinsel]

yes

replaced with a Lucky Keychain

[empty bobcat]

the embelished weapon should be in the mainhand right

[swift tinsel]

if you don't have a myth weapon

slot doesn't really matter

[hazy breach]

Highest ilvl in mainhand always

[swift tinsel]

^

[empty bobcat]

ok its both crafted

285

no myth weapon yet

[trim lake]

is there a bugs command?

[empty bobcat]

beating devourer on Imperator feels good man xD

[dawn pasture]

Hey , so on Lightblinded Vanguard you pref to shadowstrike evis? or what is better?

[somber sun]

obv shadow strike

[void ocean]

cant shadowstrike as assa rogue

[somber sun]

idk this is a sub channel

[void ocean]

true, but paladins r paladins

[somber sun]

why are we even talking about paladins as rogue

[dawn pasture]

ait ty , i've tried aoe bujild since i saw some guy top 100 parse with this , but obsly my damages as bad as fck

[dawn pasture]

shiet fight for us i think

[vale pine]

shadowstrike /bp

[dawn pasture]

ty

[somber sun]

yeah I saw that

but like

you gotta tell your tanks to organize pulls for you

kinda

our vanguard raids had them split most of the time

[dawn pasture]

probably yea , they did like 4 shadwostrikes/4 evis overall for the entier fight

[real panther]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[real panther]

I follow this blindly, but someone asked me why and I have no idea why we do this xD

[quaint lodge]

Clone triggered = more dmg

only more damage on supercharged CP

[somber sun]

yeah basically

on your opener

[real panther]

ah ok, so next finisher is doubled by your clones?

[somber sun]

you wanna force the 2 black lines

[real panther]

on supercharged

[somber sun]

for the 2 sp cps

[real panther]

no no, I know HOW, I just didnt know the WHY 😄

[somber sun]

yeah

[real panther]

ty

[somber sun]

just read that apex talent desc

[real panther]

yeah but I wasnt sure the clone spawned was doing the supercharged stuff aswell

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[solid yacht]

Is the coup de grâce macro so you cast it before black powder on procs?

[alpine wraith]

you can use it and it uses bp or coup

in 1 button

[tidal solstice]

make sure to put it on the stealth stance bar too 😛

[grim wasp]

Do people look at stuffs like flawless form in combat?

as a buff?

[sonic raven]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[somber sun]

Yeah

[tidal solstice]

why

[random mason]

i could even drop the coup from that actually

[sonic raven]

What buffs do People actually track?

[random mason]

shadow techniques

could argue for cloud cover but that's literally just your shadow blades duration

[tidal solstice]

i track coup so i know when i will have an extended global, and i track AA so i know when to double SS for it

i also track FF just for gits and shiggles

[abstract cosmos]

ur bars look above average NICE

[thorny ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Sht Stacks, Sblades, Dance, Guidon

[timid rose]

wait, coups de grace give an extended gcd?

[grim wasp]

some people just track useless stuffs i guess was watching a warrior stream critcake guys ui is like a slideshow

[vernal drum]

hey i have a question

if i already have guidon, and i roll on Averzian, can i get another guidon since i got it on the vault and not from my bonus rolls ?

[grim wasp]

yes i think bonus rolls have a separate pool

[vernal drum]

thts tragic

[grim wasp]

i had myth nexus ring on warrior i took something else isntead would be sad to bonus roll it if i go for set

already got hero set

[timid rose]

yeah, i think that was a big miss, like if you already have the item in your inventory, it should not be on the bonus roll table

[vernal drum]

thats tragic

[timid rose]

next reset I eitehr get a duplicate myth cloak, or the myth dagger from Skyreach... if i get the cloak THEN i get the dagger next run, really hoping i only need to use one coin there this coming week

[vernal drum]

u bonus roll everything there alrdy ? @timid rose

[livid gorge]

Are we running a shit ton of crit in raid now?

[somber sun]

Yeah

[vernal drum]

yeah

[livid gorge]

I see in logs around 1100 to 1200

[timid rose]

two items left, cloak and dagger. I already wearing the cloak.

[vernal drum]

Can u ping me next weak if u remember @timid rose

[timid rose]

aboot what? >< if i have bad luck or no? 😄

[grim wasp]

Worth buying boe legs?

[somber sun]

Nah

Unless it literally the last bis item left you have to get

And even then

[grim wasp]

Yeah fuck it was going to buy gold and buy legs

https://tenor.com/view/mcmahon-crying-he-was-special-wwe-vince-mcmahon-gif-13313547165599993551

[somber sun]

You won't even get 1% dps increase

Next week reset gonna be insane

[grim wasp]

Im doing something wrong in my rotation or something is off anyway

[somber sun]

village region gotta wait a long time tho zzzz

[grim wasp]

What happens next week?

[somber sun]

Just a matter of rolls, don't overthink it

[lean rover]

Do adds on Chimaerus not count towards parse

[steel zinc]

Yes they do

for a log you want to go down 2nd group

[alpine wraith]

for logs you go 1st group

then on second p1 you go up twice with cloak on second

omegadegen pad

[lean rover]

I see yeah I ended with 110 overall DPS on details I check logs I'm like why am I at 89 on warcrafts

[steel zinc]

Nah first you blast boss

and 2nd group you have cds

it lines up perfectly

[steel zinc]

ok thats some tech but yeah 😄

Thats then obvs best 😄

[alpine wraith]

you can still blast boss and you get more dmg by that because second sec tech can hit adds

vs the other one where you get a bit on adds but they die too fast

also mainly because it is hard to kinda krangle the group to go up 2nd

then mind control to explain why you need to go 1st group the second time

instead of oh whoops

i entered

the second p1

sorry guys!

[buoyant umbra]

on my raid spec im not taking premed and sometimes its brutal stacking to full combo points how do yall deal with this

[grim wasp]

Is it worth pressing sd few sec before sec tech is nearly off cd?

[grim wasp]

Just do opener bro

[alpine wraith]

on pull do the fast pull strat or the fuu strat

strike stab vanish strike

or strike guidon dance+blades strike sec tech

[grim wasp]

There is a 1 sec delay after guildon right?

[alpine wraith]

yea

if you strike guidon

then wait for global

then dance+blades strike

[grim wasp]

Sad i cant macro it with dance and other stuffs

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

let me introduce u to dust play from df s3 when u couldnt macro anything 😄

[grim wasp]

I just started using macros yesterday

Was pressing everything 1 by 1

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/giphyqa-CM67cI6BSH9ks

so u r a new wow player in general? i dont meet many of those lately

[tidal solstice]

i have a general use dance+blades macro and then a "pull" macro for bosses that includes lights potential and sectec.

ive always kept my trinkets on their own key just out of habit so havent had to deal with the krangle that is guidons

[void ocean]

last season forge & prism gaming both in the same macro xD

[grim wasp]

I just found it nice to have everything popped at same time eith this 1 sec delay the feeling is not the same

[tidal solstice]

its on my scroll wheel key press. up is sstorm, down is bp. S is dance+ blades, ctrl s is the extended version. easy to press both at once when needed

ren weapons are back yall FYI

[grim wasp]

s how you walk back?

[tidal solstice]

X is

[grim wasp]

i see i dont have much on keyboard i use naga mouse

[tidal solstice]

yeh i use a g502 proteus its got 2 thumb buttons and 2 pointer buttons

two thumb buttons are SS/backstab+evisc

anything spammable is on my mouse

gaming

[grim wasp]

i still try not to bind stuff i rarely use like shroud

or even cheapshot

[tidal solstice]

i have cheapshot on my 1 key in stealth, kidney on my 1 key out of stealth

i dont pvp much otherwise id separate them

i keep shroud on my 6 key lol

[somber sun]

bro if only there wasnt that huge space between your back and the blades

its so weird

[tidal solstice]

i love the sais

[real panther]

I already said it, but i love this mog

[charred rock]

this is giving some real MK Sektor vibes here lowkey.

[grave nexus]

besides the macros in FAQ any other place i can see more macros?

[delicate charm]

Should I be trying to game AA the whole time in shadow dance, or only when I have the supercharged combo point?

[meager coyote]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[meager coyote]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Critical Strike > Haste(roughly 700) >= Mastery > Versatility
Mythic+: Mastery >Haste(roughly 700) >= Critical Strike > Versatility

[pine monolith]

hey I am new to pve and class discords in general (sorry if this is asked a lot)

do we hold blades + dance to line up with puzzle box? or just send puzzle box on its own?

[tribal vortex]

use puzzlebox every 3 min

[swift tinsel]

you end up treating it like a 3min trinket and using with every other blades

[pine monolith]

i see that makes sense

thanks

[mortal crag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fringe lava]

how many supercharged combo points can you have

i remember in tww you can stack up to 4 or something right

[hazy breach]

You can have up to 7

But pulling a boss or starting a key resets it down to 2

[fringe lava]

then how much gain is it to dance once without finishing on beloren before p2 for the burn

1%?

[cursive fulcrum]

are we able to post a log for review in here?

i'm getting smoked on wcl 🥺

[fringe lava]

i think theres a command

like !log or something

[cursive fulcrum]

!log

[cursive fulcrum]

ty ty

[rain swift]

I had no clue shadowstrike would be this big until after reading someone saying it the other day, Im amazed, i always priod evis, and didnt pay attention to the stacks

[slate fable]

anyone that's doing mythic dragons as sub, do you still try and get a gcd off on the orbs or do you just tunnel on bosses with BP?

my group kills the orbs fast af so im trying to decide if its even worth trying to swap a gcd on the orbs for the sake of padding

[random mason]

Not on drakes yet but if i cannot get meaningful dmg on orbs id just ignore em, maybe try to snipe a shuriken storm for easy combo points

[slate fable]

yeah thats kinda what i was trying to do

obv BP is easy to just hit them with but anything else is kinda just annoying to hit tbh

[rain swift]

numbing poison worth it on myth chima? to slow down the fear casts or just stick to atrophic?

or crippling poison for that matter

[random mason]

Is there a big healing requirement on chimaerus at this point?

I ran numbing but im also benched cause i first rolled gaze

[rain swift]

yeah I'll probs run numbing at first since my guild has some issues sometimes to get the kicks right

[random mason]

Tbh the kicks will most likely be a bigger problem than healing or the small adds reaching the boss

[rain swift]

yeah the adds die super quick and our healers are really good

the only thing we've died to has been the kicks so far

[random mason]

Yeahh theyre pretty rough at the start

[hoary orchid]

Can i cloak runic glave in magisters?

[cursive fulcrum]

i found that sectech lines up with the orbs spawn at least for the first part of the fight so i would just try to time it. worst comes to worst you're still sec tech the bosses on cd

[unborn egret]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tidal solstice]

worst mage ive seen in a 12. they were 280 ivll. no im not blocking their name

still timed it lol

[random mason]

Since every mage plays frost you just have an insane range on em now

I have a log with a frost mage that has 4 interrupts in pit

[tidal solstice]

these mf did everything they could to fail the key

i was like, "NOPE not today"

although the tank was great

[rain swift]

i was in a 10 today, both other DPSes were 250ilvl (i checked after) bcuz i was at like 126k dps at the end and they were at like 70-80k, should start checking at the start of runs, we still timed it too atleast

[tidal solstice]

this mage was 280 rofl

[random mason]

This was a timed magister 14

When it's bad its REALLY bad

[tidal solstice]

jfc

the pulls were krangled but the tank did know the fights at least

[rain swift]

tank was helping their low ilvl friends, i try and refuse going into those groups just bcuz i want a smooth fast run for my 8 weekly

[random mason]

Now that i have a geared tank alt i can stare into the abyss as well

[tidal solstice]

mage also died twice

[random mason]

It's interesting how people get to +10s and not even know the mechanics in the dungeon

[rain swift]

NPX is notorious for this

[tidal solstice]

carried 100%

[rain swift]

i luckily got my ring from there in 2 runs, but i hate going into NPX, ppl just refuse to interrupt for some reason

and then complain at the heaelr

[random mason]

I had a BAD windrunner spire a few days ago

[tidal solstice]

they didnt have to claw their way up the m+ ladder one key and level at a time.

[random mason]

Like i dont care bc i play blood and could almost solo the dungeon

But

Thats not a good look for any of the dps involved

[rain swift]

the warrior??

[random mason]

Yeah

[rain swift]

i should start logging my runs, i have no clue how to set it up, but i will asap

[random mason]

I was 2nd for dmg on the last boss

[rain swift]

i had a monk dps in windrunner spire constantly roll into the arrow i would be going into idk if it was to just piss me off or something, he would be standing next to one arrow, and roll into mine i was running to every time

[random mason]

Like i pull very aggressively so i get that it can be overwhelming, but its a weekly key

Ppl should at least know the bosses and interrupt the important shit

[rain swift]

one of the issues in windrunner is that ppl dont CC the birds when they cast the fire thing that cant be interrupted without CC but luckily as rogue u got tons of CCs to make up for it

[random mason]

Nah i do that on tank

I yoink em when they start casting

[rain swift]

yeah thats good

love blood dks

[split garden]

how much overlap do sub stats have for assa?

[random mason]

All u want is puzzlebox instead of guidon for assa pretty much

If you're coming from sub

Which i assume you are bc youre blue

[split garden]

well noice thats already what have ty ty

[random mason]

Most of the time its just standing in AoEs or letting casts go through or in windrunner specifically, not getting the shield down on that banshee mob

[rose tangle]

hi how can i improve my parse in raid ??

[unreal ledge]

check the pin, get guidon/alnseer, use shadow dance the last 8s of shadowblades. etc.

[random mason]

Look at cooldown timings from high logs for that fight and try to understand why they do more damage than you

[rose tangle]

thnx

[gilded ferry]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[gilded ferry]

is this first one still used without premed?

[vocal torrent]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/class-tuning-incoming-may-5-2301220 new note for may 5th

[alpine wraith]

oh no

[jade oasis]

isnt that good?

[alpine wraith]

blizz did not like the talent change

[north spire]

bruh

[alpine wraith]

you will just use the other one again

[vocal torrent]

imo its good, shifts some damage away from the burst and cooldowns and into our wet noodle downtime, I think its still pretty powerful no

[alpine wraith]

but everyone that changed to crit

[random mason]

Back to mastery

[alpine wraith]

got krangled

[vocal torrent]

well have to wait for sims ye

[jade oasis]

god bless

[random mason]

I can just recraft my shit and swap one ring

[jade oasis]

i have so much mastery

[alpine wraith]

well i like this kinda just we might have a choice now between more burst or less

[random mason]

All good for me

[vocal torrent]

yeah I am already mastery ccoded

[manic salmon]

i assume that this will still be a net nerf

[crystal bone]

no more cloud cover its joever

[manic salmon]

[spiral needle]

does that make cloud cover 12 seconds total now

[alpine wraith]

not really it is not an overall nerf

[manic salmon]

yes

[jade oasis]

i cant tell

[crystal bone]

[alpine wraith]

you will just use scruples again

[manic salmon]

yeah that's true

[alpine wraith]

might be a 2 to 3% buff maybe at most

[spiral needle]

kinda sucks for sub since CD is 20s...

[manic salmon]

it also sucks specifically for belo'ren

[alpine wraith]

back to a pvp talent

kekw

[upbeat cradle]

0h shit isn't that a hefty nerf we're getting ?

[spiral needle]

its probably supposed to be neutral

[tribal blade]

fucking blizz

[upbeat cradle]

Wouldn't that reduce the damage% to a third and everything else ?

[tribal blade]

i swear to god

[spiral needle]

rogue aint exactly breaking the meters to be a nerf target

[tribal blade]

well it's not a nerf

[weak glade]

SUB BUFFS IS THIS REAL?

[upbeat cradle]

Bro they nerfed us for less than that

[spiral needle]

i imagine it hurts outlaw quite a bit more

[tribal blade]

but it basically takes away our burst niche now

yeah outlaw is gonna be hurting now

[stray oyster]

i wouldl;ove to know why they felt this change was necessary

[alpine wraith]

yea outlaw is getting a big nerf

[manic ice]

isnt it an overall buff? i thought the talent change orignially was only like a 6.5% buff. now we are getting a flat 7% buff and a buff to the old talent

[alpine wraith]

less uptime and now only affects fazed

[upbeat cradle]

But like is the 7% aura damage gonna compensate the loss of what. 20% crit damage from 2 fazed ?

[spiral needle]

doubt the dev intended trickster tree to be so much better than the other

[alpine wraith]

maybe someone said it before wonder who

[spiral needle]

not really a surprise

[upbeat cradle]

Buddy. It's always been much better 😂

[zenith hollow]

they rolled a dice and it landed on rogue so they asked chatgpt what to change

[tribal blade]

yes

given the cloud cover buff was +6%

[alpine wraith]

the real killer is the duration decrease for us

[spiral needle]

i mean, before cloud DS had a place in ST fight

[stray oyster]

lol, i am quite tired of this company they make it so hard to enjoy the game

[alpine wraith]

as getting extra superchargers and the sec tech was big

those -8 secs is rip

[echo dirge]

The dooming real lmao

[tribal blade]

gg everyone who went full into crit on their gear

but honestly it's fine

[alpine wraith]

deleting gold from the economy the good way

kekw

[tribal blade]

honestly feel bad for outlaw

they got shot

[livid gorge]

premed is back baby

[alpine wraith]

yea now we are even more viable in m+

[tribal blade]

with this change

[alpine wraith]

like 3% buff baby

we back

[spiral needle]

very curious to see what outlaw overall change is

[alpine wraith]

might be a little less actually

[spiral needle]

maybe not so bad I didn't roll a weapon yet

[final gulch]

hope outlaw enjoyed their 1 week

[tribal blade]

have you napkin mathed if we take cloud or no scruples

[final gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/ripbozo-packwatch-rip-bozo-pack-watch-smoking-smoke-gif-25173473

[graceful rock]

can someone explain to me why we can apply 2 stacks of fazed but theres no benefit?

[tribal blade]

i find it weird they changed the uptime on cloud for both sub and outlaw equally

given sub has far less uptime on it

[final gulch]

i expected the outlaw nerf on cloud ngl

[tribal blade]

i suspected they would too

[final gulch]

those bums at blizzard didnt consider how much uptime they would get in it

[spiral needle]

12s is such a weird duration too

expected like 15s since that's what so many CDs are

[random mason]

Or just make it match shadow blades duration

[fading saffron]

is the last portion of the fazed thing mean we no longer get Fazedx3 on targets? If not, is it basically a nerf? or way less than 7% overall?

[alpine wraith]

i would need to know first if we can kinda cheat it a bit like before

but i expect it to be scruples unless you need the burst

[void ocean]

wheres pin

why slackin

we back

[alpine wraith]

all the TCs are eu and it is 3 am

[spiral needle]

yea wake up math nerds

[alpine wraith]

im making some fast calcs

[spiral needle]

the people demand answers NOW

[alpine wraith]

but still

[void ocean]

im eu and i woke up

my buff alarm rang

[random mason]

Make some answers then

[alpine wraith]

ah it is an overall buff

but the dmg profile comes back to before patch

[spiral needle]

the cloud cover change will result in subs damage going up/down, but not as much as outlaws

that's my math

[alpine wraith]

so all the crit stackers will have a bad morning

[spiral needle]

its not like you went 0 mastery

[fading saffron]

we back to mastery gaming?

[spiral needle]

aint that hard to swap back

[alpine wraith]

well just crit will be back to less value it is still good

just mastery is better now

[spiral needle]

also have like 4-5 crafted pieces by now too

to adjust

[alpine wraith]

yea im glad i didnt recraft to crit

[peak ice]

Buffs??

[random mason]

Recrafting is like 7k to 10k for my 3 pieces

Thats nothing

[void ocean]

and i took haste mastery ring from npx bonus roll, I HAD A VISION

[drifting ether]

Wait what’s the changes

[spiral needle]

i was trying to coin a outlaw weapon from nexus, suddenly getting the haste/mastery ring feels good

[alpine wraith]

yea the ring set from xenas is still good

[peak ice]

Whys this bad for crit stack sorry?

[eager latch]

we're no longer playing the cloud I'm guessing

the cloud talent

[spiral needle]

cloud cover got nerfed pretty hard, which is why you stacked crit

[eager latch]

which promoted crit stacking

[alpine wraith]

cloud cover lost the triple effect of crit builders

[tribal blade]

nah it's because they removed the crit dmg interaction

[spiral needle]

crit still good for other build though, just not infinite stack

[eager latch]

ohhhh I see

[tribal blade]

wait or did they

sorry i might be spreading misinformation

just woke up

[alpine wraith]

yea they deleted the interaction

so now no crit dmg or extra dr

dmg still applies but just in case you though of talenting it

[spiral needle]

F in the chat for big shadowstrikes

[alpine wraith]

they also nerfed duration by 40%

[void ocean]

bro that would be a fckin meme

[tribal blade]

i think sub didn't need the duration nerfed the same as outlaw

[steel horizon]

No fun allowed

[void ocean]

gave us new talent then nerfed it out of usage

[spiral needle]

i mean

[alpine wraith]

we are losing the second sec tech if no bl

[spiral needle]

isn't this still just big sub buff compared to pre-cloud cover sub

[alpine wraith]

but the thing is no scruples also got changed

[random mason]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

yea still a buff not a huge one tho

[tribal blade]

net positive buff

[spiral needle]

sub def doeesnt need to doom about it

pity your outlaw bros

[alpine wraith]

there is no dooming tbh just people kinda liked the burst

not like we have amazing burst but it was higher

[tribal blade]

this is overall good though i think, we no longer will have crazy variance in blades

[wet robin]

The burst was fun and added back in what I liked about sub in the past.

oh well

[unborn egret]

so we have less burst but higher lows ?

[thorn basin]

any chance they forgot to write that line for sub?

[spiral needle]

i wanted sin to get some help, but not like this

[tribal blade]

no

[steel horizon]

Actually fuck it if this means we're going back to premed then im happy

[tribal blade]

they targeted outlaw with that because outlaw has far more uptime on cloud

like ~60% uptime on cloud

[alpine wraith]

sub didnt need further nerfs on it

[tribal blade]

back to premed, WS and stacking mastery

[spiral needle]

oh man

[woven nimbus]

wasnt the whole thing like 6-7% buff

[spiral needle]

premed is back, thank god

[woven nimbus]

so nothing changes but were back to premed?

[tribal blade]

yeah if they hit sub with the same nerf as outlaw it would be a bad talent for us

[alpine wraith]

we still get a little buff

from the aura % and scruples buff

[tall dawn]

Rip I just got a bunch of crit bonus rolls

[sterile topaz]

are we winning or losing hows sub looking?

[tribal blade]

yes but we're also not losing the power of having those talents if it makes sense

[alpine wraith]

oh true the people rolling for pit neck

[warm marlin]

@lucid jackal owned

[alpine wraith]

rip

ahahaha

[plush roost]

very owned

[tribal blade]

/dead

[spiral needle]

can live with less egg juice

[warm marlin]

smoke interaction removed in a random patch

[random mason]

I just crafted neck as soon as possible

[warm marlin]

as expected

[plush roost]

i didnt read the 1 stack fazed part and was like eh not too bad

[tribal blade]

/bruhimdead

[plush roost]

but damn wild nerf

[alpine wraith]

i have laura neck

so im fine

[warm marlin]

rogue too op!

[plush roost]

sub stocks way up

tho

[warm marlin]

3% nerf to ddh!

[alpine wraith]

big masteries

[plush roost]

u just play scruples in aoe as sub

now

[cosmic sparrow]

So back to mastery for sub?

[alpine wraith]

the buff is kinda good for sub in m+`because the aura affects everything

well crit is still fine just it wont overtake mastery

[random mason]

Yeah

As in

Mastery flask again

Instead of crit

[warm marlin]

he was right about the compensation buff though!

i will give him that

[tribal blade]

is beloren still cloud

[cosmic sparrow]

Im just gonna play Sin, this shit is retar

[void ocean]

wait, r we playing cloud now or not

[plush roost]

no idea

[north schooner]

easy to predict when he is secretly the rogue dev

[plush roost]

we see how it gets implemented

[tribal blade]

show me the future genie

[random mason]

Yeah cause the patch is wednesday not tonight

[drifting ether]

Do we still get the extra fazed

[void ocean]

i play 2 classes, 4 specs, it feels like 15

[maiden oar]

its more than 3

[graceful rock]

i mean honestly

[void ocean]

with all the fckin buffs/nerfs n overall changes

[maiden oar]

but its not alot more than 3

[graceful rock]

with 40s more egg time

you might just put the assa in the bag

[chrome palm]

ddh buffed 10% twice and then 3% nerf hmm

[proper slate]

finally sub full nerff

[warm marlin]

isnt it like 10% full ahead of every other spec

[random mason]

Yes

[chrome palm]

outlaw was mogging ddh too hard

[maiden oar]

i dont know if wcl stats include tuesday

they said theyd remove logs from tue where it was overbuffed but i still have them

so i actually cannot answer bc i dont know

[random mason]

Theyre marked as invalid for the ones in my group

[maiden oar]

the outlaw changes are so evil though

[warm marlin]

ye

rogue nerfs were needed

[maiden oar]

yeah but my rankings still compare against the bugged ones

like in the best section

[random mason]

Oh

[maiden oar]

so i dont know if they are included in the stats

[warped stirrup]

so trickster is seemingly better overall but is deathstalker even fun on st? ive never tried it so idk what its flow is like

[void ocean]

now this is a pin

[maiden oar]

itll say best and have the rank i got with 12.0.5 tues bug

when i click rank on this wks reclear

so i genuinely have no idea

it does suck that its all pad though

i wish ddh was a boss damage guy but w its profile thats kinda tough

[maiden oar]

i was goijg to come to alleria reclear

to make my outlaw so strong

now its over... .

[graceful rock]

DS is so back

find your haste boys

[left ledge]

[hollow compass]

So what makes it so we’re taking premed again?

[left ledge]

DS is not back

[left ledge]

yeah we prob do

no reason not to

[iron imp]

who tf wants DS

[left ledge]

strike isnt going to hit as hard anymore

[hollow compass]

Whats the reasoning tho

[left ledge]

well fazed isnt going to work with secondary effects

the generator crit damage is a secondary effect

so...

whats the point in juicing it up

[hollow compass]

Oh ok i see

[left ledge]

ye

GG

[proper slate]

ff subtlety

[gilded ferry]

we got blueposted?

[left ledge]

we had our fun (no we didnt)

[gilded ferry]

any links?

[astral axle]

fuck

[left ledge]

we literally were still bottom

[hollow compass]

Idk i just put the eviscerate in the bag

I dont understand what anything does

Just press your buttons gg

[void ocean]

so we basically nerfed