subtlety

[cobalt surge]

afkpee im not going afk, i like it here :3

ty to you all. very kind

[shrewd lantern]

then dont?

[steel wyvern]

well thats not words per minute

thats worter pro

different thing

[keen steppe]

when i play woth a aug is there something i have to play around? or its still send cds on cd`? i ask bcs everytime i play with a aug i have the feeling i do - dps

[short radish]

no

you play around yourself

and not the aug

fuck augs

[shrewd lantern]

@short radish i am another 60 gilded crests in debt

[spiral steeple]

There is NO WAY I'm using this cloud cover bullshit until they fix the energy cost

It feels so fucking bad

[finite lynx]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[short radish]

wahoo

[finite lynx]

is the haste breakpoint stay true for m+ builds?

[shrewd lantern]

missing 2 rings and neck before full mythic

[finite lynx]

feels weirds, i have to run haste flask and haste food to get to 790

i dont have the trinket

[shrewd lantern]

i literally dont notice it

its only really there on opener

[cobalt surge]

LOL, we kidding rn? xD
its way too early to get sarcasm ^^

where u all from?

US?

[spiral steeple]

Yeah that's the problem

I don't notice it otherwise

But it feels like shit on the opener

[shrewd lantern]

strike vanish strike

[short radish]

@molten citrus bingo

[spiral steeple]

Hmm not a bad idea

[shrewd lantern]

or dont care

[gilded thistle]

this fucking green crown is gonna haunt me for all eternity...

[finite lynx]

!prekey

[short radish]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Shadow Dance before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press Dance early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[solid badge]

Hey, i hope its ok to ask here in regards to crafting. I crafted my main hand weapon (mythic) and I am unsure on how to proceede with my off-hand. Is it ok to craft it too? How important is it overall ? ( I do not raid Mythic, so my only other options would be to get lucky via bonus rolls in Skyreach/Pit)

[spiral steeple]

I also kinda prefer the consistent dance damage from the other talent

[short radish]

OH is worthless

worth the same amount of stats as wrists

[shrewd lantern]

sub is a burst spec

big boom booms

[spiral steeple]

I pug and the tanks don't know how to pull in M+

[shrewd lantern]

make dopamine go

[solid badge]

Thank you!

[short radish]

as long as you use a dagger in the OH

nothing else matters

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[spiral steeple]

I had a hunter duel me the other day and I killed her in 2 globals

Big dopamine

No idea what her ilvl was

[shrewd lantern]

me when i kill lv80s

[spiral steeple]

Less than mine

[shrewd lantern]

282

gatekept by crest cap

:/

[spiral steeple]

I'm capped out too

But I'm at 276 I think

[cobalt surge]

#ChaomonY#

[shrewd lantern]

I would need to spend another 380 gilded

to cap out all my gear

[cobalt surge]

Y / N? Thumbs Up / Thumbs Down - Please o7

NO. NO. NO. When Blind is G, then Focus-Blind should be G too. NVM. Reprompting.

[keen steppe]

thank you

[steel wyvern]

yeah i like to use sarcasm against germans, its super effective

[steel wyvern]

FIRE

[cobalt surge]

im not german.

im kanake

:3

[short radish]

[steel wyvern]

i just searched that and apparently its a slur?

[timid rose]

I wouldn't trust gpt to set my keybinds lol

[cobalt surge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canace

yea, slur - kind of

or how we call it, ABSCHAUM!!!!! xD

[cobalt surge]

y tho?

[timid rose]

I don't trust gpt for anything. ML is fine

[cobalt surge]

ML?

so u dislike the chat but like machine learning? hüh?

[gilded thistle]

you should make your own and find what works for you instead of blindly following a robot that doesn't know what hands are

needing chatgpt to make keybinds for you is just silly

lmao

slopminded activities

at gork how do i keybind

[cobalt surge]

i think its actually pretty smart to do that: but ty for your useful input xD

[bleak night]

[timid rose]

Got doesn't think. It's a glorified word prediction engine

[pure cloud]

Outsourcing my own taste brb

[timid rose]

Gpt*

[cobalt surge]

then what is the "gpt-thinking" mode? 🙂

[placid blade]

what talent you guys dropping to pick up shiv in dungones (if you do at all)

[steady dune]

marketing

[shrewd lantern]

shiv useless

[pure cloud]

Says something about these big tech guys that their revolutionary invention is a secretary that’s also a friend tells you what you wanna hear

[cobalt surge]

so researching different resources to combine word-predictions, so that they make sense is "marketing"?

[tidal solstice]

i dont lol

thats what hunters are for

[pure cloud]

Telling people you’re gonna make an agi then ask it how to make your company profitable is marketing

[steady dune]

homie is realyl bought into ai eh,

[finite lynx]

does the haste breakpoint stay true for m+ builds?

[tidal solstice]

if you are using ai you are part of the problem

[shrewd lantern]

unless you want the chinese build of 0 st

[tidal solstice]

its not even AI, it sjust a LLM, enhanced search, google+ if you will

[steady dune]

letting ai decide your keybinds, must be from teh pally discord

[serene tapir]

Yes

[tidal solstice]

and if like 60% of the net is pron then the llms are gonna have issues lol

[finite lynx]

its ok that ihave to use haste food and flask to get there?

[pure cloud]

Llms are going to be a snake eating its own tail eventually anyway

[frank wolf]

Why does like 17% of the worlds population have GI robot as their pfp?

[serene tapir]

It is, not optimal but if you lack haste its all good

[sullen hare]

bugfixes = later

[tidal solstice]

yep however you juggle. i use a mastery food, then a crit potion for shenanigans

[pure cloud]

Maybe 17% of the world is openly hostile to Nazis

And the like

[short radish]

[frank wolf]

I mean based but lowk gi robot is the mascot of xbox live

[shrewd lantern]

it honestly impresses me how blizz makes ilvl king

and people still overstress secondaries

[fallow ingot]

Others classes have bug fixes.. we still play with our shit i guess.

[pure cloud]

Ahem, our stealth got it’s sound back sir

[shrewd lantern]

yep

people just like coping

[tribal blade]

i keep tabbing in to look and the topics are getting weirder and weirder

[frank wolf]

Killing nazis is NOT weird brochacho 😭🙏🏻

[pure cloud]

.

The context

[tribal blade]

from keybinds

to greek mythology

to chat gpt

to nazis

[cobalt surge]

RE

[pure cloud]

You’d be surprised how often it ends up there

[frank wolf]

Chat gpt > nazis pipeline is not a coincidence

Think twice before using LLMs

[cobalt surge]

haha

i'd say trice

/_\

[shrewd lantern]

@grok is this real

[gilded thistle]

I'm felling intense secondhand embarrassment right now

[steady dune]

blizz using gronk to vibe code rogue changes

[gilded thistle]

probably

would explain a lot

[pure cloud]

Saw a few tool tips that were absolutely llm bs. Venri had a video

[molten citrus]

Some tooltips have spelling errors so idk about that one

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[gilded thistle]

the one thing llms do is spell correctly lol

the bad writing is far more indicative of human error than llm

[tidal solstice]

oh boy. llm is glorified spell check. neat. now we have no fresh water or cheap RAM but at least they know when to use the oxford fucking comma

[north marlin]

!name NyanMoroes secret value gamers

[gilded ferry]

!vibecheck

[vale pine]

people forget that humans are also very good at creating mediocre/bad content

[gilded ferry]

!vibe

fuck

[tribal blade]

guten morgen mein hehr

[gilded ferry]

!vibe check

i forgotten the sacret texts

[vale pine]

#off-topic <- this way

[final agate]

Sup Fuu

[vale pine]

the fun commands only work in that channel

[gilded ferry]

oh ok,

i thought i forgot

[steady dune]

morning fuu

hows the morning cup of joe?

[vale pine]

i don't drink coffee

(i also had to google what a cup of joe is)

[final agate]

What do you drink?

[muted salmon]

Tea > coffee

[vale pine]

tea, water, fruit juice

[short radish]

water > tea

[final agate]

I like both.

[maiden oar]

what is the projected strength of panda in 2nd/3rd tier of this expac

[short radish]

stay hydrated my homies

[muted salmon]

Tea = water

[maiden oar]

will it still go crazy or will the secondaries be high enough to make it less good

considering sending a race chang

[final agate]

Tea is water with flavor.

[vale pine]

coffee technically too

[muted salmon]

It dehydrates you though

[short radish]

i guess by that definition, soup = water

[final agate]

Pretty much

[short radish]

[muted salmon]

Depending on the soup, it can be water

[vale pine]

all soup is water

[final agate]

Leveling my rogue now. Excited to play Sub again, been maining BDK

[unique beacon]

What is it? If I do it at 8 seconds left my super charger charges are used up until my sectec is ready 1-2 s before SB ends

[muted salmon]

Tomato soup

Checkmate

[vale pine]

you just send it with 8 sec, the supercharger optimization is super minimal increase over that

[muted salmon]

My argument? Infallible. My logic? Extensive

Im glad the rogue community is filled with distinguished conversation :3

[short radish]

these are truly the important discussions we need to have

[swift tinsel]

Tomato soup can be made with water

and ^

[muted salmon]

Fuu. I am devastated…

[vale pine]

funny coincident was, i was about to type how tomato and cucumber are mostly water

[swift tinsel]

cucumber with salt goated snack

[muted salmon]

Im a fraud…

[final agate]

To be fair, toss some salt on a tomato and just take a bite. Yum

[final agate]

Jail.

[vale pine]

#1203397195588435999 message

[muted salmon]

Back to the assassination channel i go…

[swift tinsel]

I feel like I'm cheating on Delves with the new Anglers thing

[vale pine]

we made this again yesterday

was good

[final agate]

That do look good

[muted salmon]

Actually fuu i got a question for u

[stuck arrow]

You think Blizzard will ever get around to changing the vibes per second meters back into DPS meters?

How the hell does every player in the raid have a different meter? And how the hell is a meter out like 10% randomly compared to logs that all generally match each other from even like simple patchwork bosses?

Like how are they even this bad. 💤

[outer orchid]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[steady dune]

You know I was just going to ask if this was a common saying outside the US lol

[muted salmon]

take away 15 year infrastructure
provide a shitty replacement

welcome to 2026 corporate decision making

[lusty oriole]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hazy lichen]

Wait so the people who already used their void rerolls are ahead now cause they got more😯?

[steady dune]

exploit early, exploit often

[fallow nimbus]

Huh?

[sonic depot]

have they already refunded?

[steady dune]

they are refunding void tokens that were previously used

[vale pine]

Just a consequence of time limits, the old damage meter had access to more data and was refined over years

[steady dune]

so you get the extra item and the token back, i would assume

[hazy lichen]

Are they refunding the gear they got from them

[vale pine]

not saying it had no problems, but damage meters ended up as a central tool

[fallow nimbus]

Because of that duplicate shit?

[hazy lichen]

If not that’s bs they should refund both item and token so people aren’t ahead

[vale pine]

now, i can't even see who did damage to a target easy

which, could be just me not knowing how to use the new damage meter

[steady dune]

theres an option for enemy damage taken

you can see the stats there

[hazy lichen]

Ik a lot of people who used their token and didn’t get duplicates so now they gonna get even more refunded and have 2 -3 myth track items ahead of everyone no?

[swift tinsel]

yes and no, there's the risk they get a duplicate item again or possibly not

[steady dune]

but addons had to, and still have to die. Fights need to be designed around a common and standard UI

[swift tinsel]

whereas people that didn't spend any have zero risk

[hazy lichen]

Well the new ones they are getting refunded are fixed and won’t give duplicates

[swift tinsel]

but you can still get loot you got before if you rolled before the fix went out

[naive creek]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[hazy lichen]

I didn’t read that

[swift tinsel]

the blue post specifically said that

they effectively wiped the 'lists' they had pre-fix

[vale pine]

think it highly depends on what you rolled on

[swift tinsel]

m+ stands to gain if they get very lucky

[vale pine]

e.g. if you spend your rolls in m+, you probably can just roll a diffrent dungeon and get more loot overall

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[vale pine]

if you got your desired piece

you also got an extra roll for free

e.g. from raid

but if you did roll on a boss

[swift tinsel]

I got pit legs and that was the only one I used pre-fix but I can still get dagger ring and bracers (with socket) and still be quite happy

[vale pine]

in mythic specifically

you might be worse off

[hazy lichen]

So u now just get a free token

[vale pine]

as your can only roll once per week

[tidal solstice]

huh i need to see what makes someone eligible for this

[fallow nimbus]

Mythic items aren't even that good with capped crests

[vale pine]

so you will need longer to get the 100% on the specific item

[swift tinsel]

I do, and if I use it in Pit I can get legs again

[vale pine]

unless i missunderstood

[swift tinsel]

which would effectively waste a roll

[vale pine]

everyone that rolled before X time (of the fix)

just gets their rolls refunded

[swift tinsel]

yes

[steady dune]

its 2 rolls on M+ stuff and 1 roll on raid gear per week right?

[vale pine]

no

[swift tinsel]

yes, unless you take tokens from vault then you get 3 from M+

[vale pine]

you get 2 roll token

[steady dune]

you get 2 tokens per week, raid items are 2 tokens and M+ is 1 token

[vale pine]

*tokens

you can either spend on ONE roll from raid

or

[vale osprey]

I've spent all mine for the week and need 140 myth crests still + I have a spark I could craft with

[tidal solstice]

i used both mine like 5 hours after servers came up

[vale pine]

two rolls in m+

[fallow nimbus]

I am at lura mythic, sat on bench for palas and crown, got lucky with raid vault picks and i have 3 items to upgrade but 0 crests

[steady dune]

oh i said AND, i meant or. Im dumb

[hazy lichen]

No matter what the people who used a token before the fix are up

[vale pine]

crests will be the main limiting factor

w/e

[shrewd lantern]

i have 5 items to upgrade

[swift tinsel]

unless they get a duplicate item

[tidal solstice]

when does this go through?

[swift tinsel]

in which case they're not up

its even

[vale pine]

the crest system works as intended

^^

[steady dune]

I wish all those extra M+s I ran during the first few weeks let me bank crests because I have no interest in running more M+

[vale pine]

its a way to control your gear pacing

[hazy lichen]

Yeah but if you are smart you just use ur tokens in another dungeon or different boss

[vale osprey]

Yeah this tier it seems like get lucky with raid row higher track myth items or be permanently out of crests for a while

[fallow nimbus]

And they sit there on 276 or 279 and all they have is that little "mythic" label

[steady dune]

If i had a solid team to push with, I'd be down, but trying to pug these 14s is rough

[swift tinsel]

unless other dungeons don't have the loot you want

[fallow nimbus]

Beloren mythic upgrades vault to 282

[swift tinsel]

or boss

[hazy lichen]

Either way it’s free gear and complete bullshit

[swift tinsel]

its really not

[fallow nimbus]

6 boss vault with 282 goes hard next week

[hazy lichen]

It literally is

[swift tinsel]

because there's still the chance to get duplicate gear

[shrewd lantern]

im just fishing for the np rings

[swift tinsel]

people did not know they could get duplicate items

[shrewd lantern]

im done with gear practically just waiting on crests

[swift tinsel]

pre-fix

[hazy lichen]

Ik someone who used their token 3 times in aa and got different pieces they needed no dupes and now are getting 3 more free tokens lol

[vale pine]

i did beloren hc oneshot yesterday

it feels rly weird to not use your major cooldowns for a minute

haha

[shrewd lantern]

you're limited by crests

not actual gear

[vale pine]

yep

[shrewd lantern]

i need 380 to upgrade all the stuff i have rn

[fallow nimbus]

Did you stack supercharger for the burst too?

No cd usage and strike only spam

[hazy lichen]

Wth

[shrewd lantern]

m beloren

[vale pine]

yes

[fallow nimbus]

And now the boss phases at 1:13 and you have no cds

[vale pine]

it felt so wrong

but was fun

[shrewd lantern]

tryna get a fatty 300k egg phase

[vale pine]

also the overall dps are shitty

[hazy lichen]

U don’t wanna do too much Dam or?

[vale pine]

but you do jucy damage to the egg

[shrewd lantern]

its mythic bel

only egg matters

[vale pine]

well i was doing heroic with pugs, but they do one egg phase strat

too

[shrewd lantern]

i fucked up and didnt get a third sectech in

[vale pine]

so you can apply the same logic

[keen dome]

@swift tinsel damn, I will eat my words.

[fallow nimbus]

You have plenty of time to dance when the last adds are up to supercharge, first cds go full into boss with adds

[swift tinsel]

I'm a little suprised they're refunding all spent tokens pre-fix

I expected one, maybe two

[shrewd lantern]

i procced gaze and velf

[keen dome]

I'm still fucked though.

[shrewd lantern]

on my pop

[fallow nimbus]

I also used cds between the egg phases and got the r1

[shrewd lantern]

bigly

[empty bobcat]

did they do anything to sims bc I sim higher today

[keen dome]

Because I can't rekill Chim lmao

[swift tinsel]

yeah that part is super scuffed

[keen dome]

It balances out.

[swift tinsel]

but hey you get twice as many for next week!

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

well, three times as many

wait no just 2

[keen dome]

It means 4 more weeks of chim max instead of 3, but I get 2 M+ items this week on top of a raid item so

[swift tinsel]

its late I need sleep lol

spent a few hours after raid grinding abyss anglers for no real reason

its an odd game mode

[shrewd lantern]

i want dragons cloak

unironically

[swift tinsel]

I might head into npx once I get my roll back

aim for bigly crit ring

[shrewd lantern]

i mean thats where im going since

it has 3 slots i dont have a mythic piece in

out of 4

[keen dome]

I'll slam mine into Nexus I guess, when I get them

[shrewd lantern]

actually all 4

[swift tinsel]

got myth helm from imperator now I'm just missing chest til I'm full myth tier

[shrewd lantern]

since i can get 289 boots

over crafted

[alpine wraith]

i sent into chima so if i get 2 back i guess im also slamming nexus

[swift tinsel]

and need all off-slots in myth yet

I have so much haste and mastery on rings

I yearn for crit

[keen dome]

huge

I still need helm, chest, legs for myth tier slots

Also lol at their fix potentially making good rng even better. You use it day 1 and get Gaze. They refund it, and now you can get 2 more myth items that week.

[swift tinsel]

was hoping we'd kill myth chim but first night prog was first night prog on it lol

[shrewd lantern]

i need to see if i can hit 300k

on egg burn next week

[alpine wraith]

did you get pre charger and pre unseens on it?

[swift tinsel]

also had a few intermissions where the first add set didn't spawn then 2nd add set double spawned

thatwas super fun

[shrewd lantern]

yeah went in with 7

[alpine wraith]

damn big

[shrewd lantern]

missed my 3rd st though

[alpine wraith]

you can stay on top of it and with feint insta step on it

drop guidon 1 sec before you get slammed

or use pbox

[shrewd lantern]

i just sequenced wrong but ye

[keen dome]

that's weird

more bugs

[shrewd lantern]

#subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

yeah we got omega feared as soon as four of the fear adds cast at the same time across the room

[shrewd lantern]

we pray for strike crits

in this pepega times

[swift tinsel]

much confusion lol

[keen dome]

I guess I can't complain too much. The haste/crit belt isn't bad and I suppose I can recraft my thing onto wrists and maybe swap an item off for better statting

[swift tinsel]

my boss damage was fucking huge tonight though

[shrewd lantern]

i like when my st crits 276

and strike 265

[keen dome]

Yeah Sub is really good on boss dam

[shrewd lantern]

nice rework

[keen dome]

Also you can do a ton of cool control on the fear adds

[swift tinsel]

yeah I almost tipped 250k strikes

I need a myth wep

[plush pilot]

ive been pumping since patch dropped. feelsgood

[swift tinsel]

but the crit variance is kinda bleh

[regal snow]

So. .

Yknow what im gonna stop myself from pushing it further

[swift tinsel]

when it hits it really fuckin hits

[regal snow]

i tabbed in here once and thats what i see

[keen dome]

time to send some rolls

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm gonna live in pit this weekend I think

at least until I exhaust my rolls

[keen dome]

I'm so torn between pit and nexus

but I think I'll just send nexus

[swift tinsel]

I could use myth neck from pit too since i have hero

as I won't see myth crown or lura neck

[vale pine]

haha, just at the right time ^^

[swift tinsel]

and I honestly prefer the heavier crit

[keen dome]

yah, same

But I have heroic

[swift tinsel]

by s3 I wanna be at like 52% crit baseline lol

[keen dome]

Nexus is cloak (eh stats), chest (cat fodder), two rings I really want

[swift tinsel]

ye I'm gonna hope for heroic and either vault it or try reserve roll

idk if we're going back to crown though

we're on hc lura and 1/9 mythic as of tonight

[keen dome]

I guess Pit is just legs for me so nexus has bigger value

[swift tinsel]

and once lura dies we go mythic both nights per week

I want spire legs lol

[keen dome]

I've still not pulled Lura once on heroic

[swift tinsel]

I'm doing memory game addon for it

not ideal

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

but literally no one else would step up for it so

[keen dome]

rip

[swift tinsel]

is what it is

[keen dome]

Do I slam 2 in nexus on the refund or wait for reset.

[swift tinsel]

I would wait for vault personally

but I'm a very patient man lol

[keen dome]

And I am not

But yeah, I think you are right

Although! if I did get any option in vault it's not worth taking it because it won't count against the roll

[swift tinsel]

it could really go either way though, you either roll and get it and don't see it in vault, roll and get it and see it in vault and take something else/bonus roll

[keen dome]

Where if I had ring X via rolls and ring Y is in vault it isworth taking it

[swift tinsel]

yeah

vault not counting against loot list is def something to keep in mind

[keen dome]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

you're almost incentivized to take bonus roll tokens

[keen dome]

If you are chasing a raid item, it's less imo.

But yeah

[swift tinsel]

like I'll probs take myth spire legs if they show up and then never roll there

[keen dome]

Same for Sauron legs for me, I guess

[swift tinsel]

the whole system adds a pretty interesting dynamic

lots more to consider

which I kinda dig

[keen dome]

Would've been good if it worked from the get-go and the one thing we didn't want to happen didn't happen

[swift tinsel]

yeahhhhhh

lmao

idk reading their explanation it kinda sounds like something they really should have accounted for

and how severely limited their internal testing environment is

[tidal solstice]

ooo im gonna have two more rollls

[keen dome]

I will give them credit for actually communicating about the fuckup

[swift tinsel]

if only there were some realm, possibly open to the public, to test these kinds of things

[swift tinsel]

yeah, I was quite surprised how much they ended up explaining about it

[keen dome]

More of that, please.

[swift tinsel]

one million percent agree

[keen dome]

"It saved to the wrong database" whom amongst us

[swift tinsel]

anyone who has ever had the misfortune of using Microsoft Access

can commiserate lol

[swift tinsel]

alright bedtime cats are mad that I haven't tucked them in yet

its 2am and I'm harpooned out lol

[keen dome]

I feel like it's another issue of not being able to retain talent, so insistutional knowledge is lost, which is bad for a monolith like WoW

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah, there's only so much you can pass torch-wise and things invariably fall between the cracks and are lost

[tidal solstice]

i wonder how much just wasnt documented in the beginning lol

[swift tinsel]

probs a fuckton lol

[keen dome]

"The databases are different on live" seems like a critical bit of knowledge

[swift tinsel]

yeahhhh

admittedly not a great look

[keen dome]

You can see it in a lot of the holiday event changes where they kept changing stuff and running into historic issues with phasing, quest congestion, drop issues, etc.

Stuff they've done before, it has been fixed, yet they do again.

[lucid jackal]

The game has also just changed a massive amount

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tidal solstice]

ideally a lot of that is getting added to a db

[keen dome]

It's a giiiigantic game and it must be a complete fucking nightmare to do stuff with half the time.

[tidal solstice]

fr

[vale pine]

most people are limited by crests not gear

[keen dome]

"We've changed this one NPC's visual style but now every dwarf in ironforge is upside down"

[vale pine]

so even tho its not the best solution, its an okay one

[swift tinsel]

I've been on both sides of that

[tidal solstice]

fine by me it just one more peice to queue up in line for the hundreds more crests i need

[swift tinsel]

have the gear not the crests for hero, have the crests not the gear for myth

[keen dome]

The only problem I have with it is it doesn't consider raid lockout issues but, c'est la vie. It's whatever and I'm glad they're doing their best to make it right AND expalin it.

[lucid jackal]

Ppl always say "Oh these are just the same mistakes repeated again"

What mistake is this being repeated again

Having bugs?

[keen dome]

In my post, I am refering to issues with quest item phasing in holiday events. When they did the fresh on.. I think it was the Valentines one, they had an issue of quest congestion due to phasing being weird and stuff not spawning properly. Then on the Easter one the precise same issue happened in the same way. And this is stuff that has happened, repeatedly, through expansion quest design.

Like that one in TWW where there's one guy and he respawns insanely slowly.

[gloomy loom]

can anyone explain the bug on premeditation?

[keen dome]

Or when quest item ground pickups aren't flagged as personal items and instead anyone can pick them up, and you need 10, and there's 10 spawns and 50 players picking them up.

They aren't game breaking bugs, but they've happened enough that they should be avoidable at this point.

[lucid jackal]

I mean for shit like that its like

How many quests are in 1 wow expansion, genuienly

For shit like quests idk, its so fucking hard right

[keen dome]

An absolute ton. Which is why my precise example isn't those but the holiday events. If you had a checklist on setting stuff up you'd most likely have less instances of the design going wrong. I'm sure it's mind numbing work and it's easy to just forget.

[vale pine]

It's like this: the vast majority who rolled did not get duplicates.

• This means, the only people negatively affected are those who only need loot from one specific mythic boss they killed and did not get the loot piece they wanted from (so an ignorably low amount of people)
• If you did not roll in Mythic (Or still have a mythic boss you can roll on this week), you only get benefits from the refund
  • If you rolled 2 items in e.g. a Mythic+ dungeon -> You now got 2 more chances to roll in the same dungeon, and if you got your desired piece already can roll in a different dungeon (so almost always benefit from the reroll)
  • If you rolled on a heroic boss, you got an additional roll, so an 25% chance to get the loot you want.
    So, the bottom line, the change benefits everyone who did spend early, but is designed to not make those who did so feel behind.

[keen dome]

Yeah, I agree with you entirely here, Fuu. I am an ignorably low amount of people

It's a good fix to a bad problem that does negatively impact a VERY ignorably low amount of people while benefit the most amount of people impacted.

[mortal arch]

since premed always gives you full CPs, that shadowstrike can't proc the shadow clone from Ancient Arts 1, and we want the chance at that clone more than we want the premed CPs

[tidal solstice]

im guessing tomorows reset will have them go out

[vale pine]

If you spend in mythic

and did not get your piece (and can't spend again this week on a diffrent boss)

thats the only case you ended up worse

[tidal solstice]

i got 2 of the 4 i wanted

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

like

e.g. if i killed the first boss mythic

[keen dome]

I will potentially suffer double belt.

[tidal solstice]

should i go for the other two knowing i can get dupes?

[vale pine]

and i did not get guidon

but i raid 2 days

if the refunds are before my 2nd day

i can potentially spend on aleria or beloren

or dreamrift

(ofc depends on the progress in the first night)

[keen dome]

I think Myth Chim is the ultimate outlier, I guess.

Very contested item. Mid loot pool otherwise.

[vale pine]

ye

the fix does not solve the problem for those who rolled early in mythic and did not get the lot piece

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

because you are now 1 week behind securing your item

[keen dome]

It does mean I will potentially suffer a double belt situation but I could use it on reset and immediately get Gaze.

Because it's a 1/4 chance still, instead of a 1/3.

[vale pine]

yep

next week is still 25% chance for those

[keen dome]

But I can still go roll twice in an M+ dungeon so I'm not going to actually be behind the overall picture.

Which is a good point of the fix.

[vale pine]

but maybe its statistically not even that bad

well, i guess it does not matter

becuase of the lockout

sadly not much you can do

[keen dome]

Yeah

I'd love to see Blizz's internal design enviroment

Both the actual dev stuff of how they build these systems and their documentation

It'd be so cool and I bet it'd be incredibly fascinating

No other game like WoW exists so it's gonna be unique as hell and probably just ten thousand databases

[vale pine]

many mmorpgs exist

[keen dome]

Many do, but WoW is unique in it's age and length of development.

FF14 would be equally interesting but for different reasons.

[vale pine]

thats true, but potentially not that good

it can go two ways

[opal basalt]

Just a whole lot of ancient rubbish potentially coming in to screw something up on accident

[vale pine]

if engineers are good, it can mean decades worth of optimizations and improvements

or the usual case, a mix of lagacy and modern system with multiple attempts to fix/modernize the system

[opal basalt]

Like idk, even PoE devs have said it’s incredibly difficult reworking OLD bosses like shaper and thus they‘d rather just fully make a new one instead of changing the existing

[keen dome]

I doubt a lot of the original code base exists properly, and I'm sure WoW has gone through some wildly expansive re-writes over the years.

[opal basalt]

And Poe is a few years younger than wows og code

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

thats the fun part in development

expensive usually means it won't be attampted

[keen dome]

Expansive, as in, broad, big, wide, huge.

But yeah, expensive means it's not worth it

[vale pine]

yes

try to sell to your boss, why you need to spend half a year re-working a functional system

if the benefit is not obviouse

[keen dome]

Alright, Mr. Big boss. We've got these posions. And they're a 60 minute duration. What if we.. made it an aura??

[vale pine]

or even bigger, explain why its a group of people

maybe spending worth hundrets of tousends worth in work hours

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

I bet reworking buffs into an aura toggle system would be one of those

[vale pine]

haha

[opal basalt]

Gotta say, I think that’s something they kinda want some of this. To preserve the rp thing.

[keen dome]

They're WRONG and BAD.

Posion toggle for the masses.

[vale pine]

poisons are 100%

something that can be solved with little effort

but isn't for nostalgia/rp reasons

[keen dome]

The only excuse I will accept is "The code is a mess, nobody wants to touch it man"

[vale pine]

and i think people are not even sure if they want passive poisons

e.g. i remember reading some heated discussions

even in this discord

[keen dome]

Well as the expert on posion toggle I can say they're wrong.

[vale pine]

my argument would be

how many death knights do you know who complain that they don't need to re-forge their weapon every hour?

or lets say every 2 or 3 hours

[opal basalt]

They don’t get weapon enchants tho

[keen dome]

I like to extend it to just every buff in the game becoming an aura, though

[opal basalt]

But then again, shamans have a 1hr imbue and don’t get weapon oils but we do

[keen dome]

Because it's a lot easier to go: how many times have you asked the war/dru/shaman/mage to buff and they've done nothing and you've gotten frustrated?

[vale pine]

fair

[keen dome]

And poison toggle isn't just for rogue, but for all. Intellect? toggle. Mark? toggle. Skyfury? deleted, toggle.

No more rebuffing mid-fight. No more having to rebuff every wipe.

You get smoeone to turn it on once and it's on for the entire raid

[vale pine]

well i think

[mighty citrus]

in beloren eggphase i wonder why my dmg variance is so crazy. i usually do the same but the output highly differs. the first try of the evening i could do very high dmg:

[vale pine]

could just get rid of raid buffs then

^^

[opal basalt]

Delete skyfury? Do you really want to take 7% dmg from us

[mighty citrus]

but the rest of the night it was mostly lower than that by far

[keen dome]

Yeah, but that doesn't solve poisons!!!

[vale pine]

haha

[mighty citrus]

anyone has tips for eggburn?

[vale pine]

you can bank supercharger

[lucid jackal]

bank SC and disorenting strikes

[opal basalt]

Your sectech crit in first? Avg 115k vs 77k? OR something with supercharger

[tribal blade]

crits

when you get a lot of strike crits, you're doing mondo dmg

[vale osprey]

Yeah look at your average hit on strike mate on the first screenshot

[mighty citrus]

mhhh

[vale osprey]

It's 140k average hit vs 90k

[mighty citrus]

so pure luck?

[tribal blade]

yes

[vale osprey]

Yeah, welcome to crit bonus scaling 🙃

[mighty citrus]

xD

[keen dome]

the 'ol Just Crit.

[tribal blade]

if you want more stable dmg you can run warning signs+premed

[mighty citrus]

how do i find out, if i have banked sc in the first screenshot acidentally?

[tribal blade]

instead of PE and no premed

[vale pine]

skill issue tbh, i crit 100% of the time, every time

[vale osprey]

It's why we like crit chance tho, removes SOME variance but there will always be some

[vale pine]

(i am joking)

[mighty citrus]

oh i have a lot of skill issues 😄

[vale osprey]

I'm not I run 2500 crit 0 haste 0 mast 0 Vers

[tribal blade]

there's no way you would have accidentally banked SC unless you sent dance right before the boss flew off and didn't cast any finishers

[vale pine]

no haste cap

unlucky

[keen dome]

If you think about it, crit chance is really always just 50/50

[mighty citrus]

okay didnt do that tbh

[vale osprey]

My energy regen outside of dance is 100 per minute ama

[tribal blade]

yeah you only get SC during dance, and then it'll get spent by the time you send 2 finishers

[keen dome]

Hell yeah the posting spec

[mighty citrus]

then f me i guess. i ask, cause my evokers were "flaming me" that i may do consistent dmg, so they can buff me 😄

[opal basalt]

If your evoker doesn’t autotarget

[vale pine]

blizz should introduce a new class, a gigant

[opal basalt]

They’re trolling

[vale pine]

he attacks once every 10 sec, only auto attacks

but does insane damage with it

[keen dome]

haha

[tribal blade]

you can run warning signs and premed like i said

it's more stable dmg

[keen dome]

10s gcd class would be funny

[tribal blade]

relying a bit more on finisher dmg

[keen dome]

I'd get so much posting done

[tribal blade]

but the rng will always still be there playing cloud cover

[small vortex]

This is why i run 0 crit fr

[mighty citrus]

okay just wanted to check if there is more to it but then i just roll with it

thanks team

[velvet nova]

Cloud cover is the new dust, I hate it

[mighty citrus]

i actually like it, cause now we hit like a truck again

[vale pine]

dust was hard to play

cloud cover is not

[small vortex]

I love my fart cloud

[opal basalt]

I looked at logs, I see burst is higher than before, I’m happier

[tribal blade]

only issue is like you're seeing there's such big variance

[keen dome]

cloud cover is push button, be angry at energy cost, do mondo damage, log out

[vale pine]

cloud cover is a worse flagellation

[opal basalt]

Still kinda prefer sin more this ssn, arrest me

[vale pine]

change my mind

[velvet nova]

Cloud cover but my tank moves the boss once every 4 seconds

[tribal blade]

fair point tbh

[fiery fog]

Dude cloud cover has fucked me so many times already

[keen dome]

tell them it's DR for the group

[tribal blade]

i can't stand it gets dropped on the ground

[fiery fog]

58 energy and i just dont use sectec

[small vortex]

Sin is chill

[tribal blade]

so annoying

[vale pine]

haha

i mean i did joke

how blizz makes things always more complicated/convolluted

[tribal blade]

did sin keys today, the dmg is really good and ethical

[opal basalt]

Ya idk, I apply bleeds, pump out a few envenoms and then I just lay back and refresh stuff

[vale pine]

but it fits soo good

looking at midnight chanegs

🤣

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[small vortex]

Cool spec!

[tribal blade]

easiest solution would be premed giving sht instead of CP

[opal basalt]

I‘d love to do more keys on my rogue tbf, but I just realise how much more I can play when I log onto my aug

[vale pine]

yep

[opal basalt]

Need friends for rogue keys

[keen dome]

Yeah, that'd be neat.

[tribal blade]

lol yup

[grizzled hornet]

did you do alleria p1 with cloud ?

[keen dome]

Esp as it's a Sub only talent

[fiery fog]

I killed her before .5

We wont reclear her anytime soon ig

[vale pine]

wasn't too bad

[grizzled hornet]

its cursed

[vale pine]

but i have particle density on low

[grizzled hornet]

maybe i should lower it as well

[fiery fog]

Max it

[keen dome]

I want more smoke

But I would've prefered a cooler visual and the aura being tied to the rogue

[fiery fog]

Id imagine you have to pay more attention to the blobs themselves rather than looking at the swirly

[grizzled hornet]

yeah u just have to watch at the adds before they die

[fiery fog]

I love getting negative qol changes

For 6% dmg

[opal basalt]

Def better than defile was

But still shit

[mighty citrus]

i mean you can even run out

and run back in again

without any problems

is it ideal, no

but its still better than nothing

[fiery fog]

Just cloak

[grizzled hornet]

could get more melee range please

i need it back

[fiery fog]

Do you really

That implies you can outrange sectec clones again

[keen dome]

You can have it back but we're moving all the bosses back 5 feet.

[fiery fog]

[vale pine]

its not too bad

[grizzled hornet]

yeah i might lower it, idk

[vale pine]

i assume, it ideally would only have a ground effect with a good contrast

and no particles of clouds

[opal basalt]

But the immersion

You’re a rogue you have to be stealthy

[fiery fog]

Or like the old akali shroud from lol
(Pre rework) or something like that

[vale pine]

lol does it well ye

tho the shroud would still hide projected textures

like this looks nice

its a cloudy texture, but its only a in wow terms projected texture

[fiery fog]

I was thinking about something like this

[vale pine]

ahh

[unreal pagoda]

i wouldnt know cloud cover sometimes just doesnt proc for me anyway

[vale pine]

only outline

[fiery fog]

Wouldnt obscure your whole screen

[grizzled hornet]

it costs 30 energy xddd

[glass copper]

it costs energy 🙁

[vale pine]

you need 30 energy

[fiery fog]

Make it subtle

[vale pine]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[fiery fog]

I wonder if they will even fix this bug

[grizzled hornet]

cus the ai bot we have for a dev couldnt remove the distract cost from it

[fiery fog]

Probably not

[unreal pagoda]

lmaoo unlucky im just literally too stupid to read ig

[vale pine]

probably will be at one point

[keen dome]

I imagine this week or next

[vale pine]

but when is discussable

[keen dome]

It's not a critical bug, it's annoying.

[vale pine]

it rly isn't a problem outside of the opener

[north schooner]

tbh it's hard to know, because you can still use blades, it just doesn't create the cloud if you are low on energy

[vale pine]

and if you play my personal prefered opener

w/e

(whish is strike+guidon-dance/blades-strike-secret)

[opal basalt]

Do you have numbers for what I’m losing going premed fuu?

[fiery fog]

The thing that annoys me is the 60 energy cost takes like ages to reach

[shadow snow]

on paladins, who should we target? I see some attacks getting immuned, what is that?

[fiery fog]

I dont want to pool like im assa

[vale pine]

0.5% dps at most

[grizzled hornet]

0.5

[vale pine]

its not that big of a deal

[opal basalt]

Okay fuck this then I’m going back to premed lol

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts cannot proc while Premeditation is up, which is why it is a DPS loss to talent into it as the Shadowstrike clones with rotten up can crit insanely hard.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[vale pine]

its mostly because of this

[keen dome]

Premed gaming is a lot more comfy

[opal basalt]

Yeah I understand why I just wanted like hard cold numbers

I really hope we can get up our play and kill chim on Monday

Lowkey frustrating to see how we push to 40% before intermission and then something goes wrong there into wipe

[keen dome]

intermission is the whole fight

Once you get through, it'll be smooooth

[opal basalt]

Yah but people don’t seem to get that yet

[keen dome]

Are the ranged not kicking

I bet the ranged aren't kicking

[opal basalt]

Yup

Or a grip going wrong but we have someone new to dk because both our main dks are legit in a cast

One broke his hands, the other his back

[keen dome]

jesus

I hope they have a swift recovery

[vale pine]

try the opener i listed

i kinda like it

[fiery fog]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[keen dome]

I did! It was pretty solid and I can see how it'd become really smooth once you get comfy with it

I just prefer premed

[vale pine]

fair

[keen dome]

I think it's like 1 or 2 backstabs at most?

[fiery fog]

I find that vanish strike is generating 1 more cp so youre saving 1 backstab

[vale pine]

nonono

i mean

strike(guidon) - dance+blades-strike-secret

[keen dome]

Oh

Oh I didn't try that.

[iron whale]

the Displaced Reflection from Sunkiller Sanctum story would make a great Shadow Clones style, way more visible for sure !!!

[keen dome]

Yeah I guess that would be smoother because you'd immediately have it all going and can just strike once and sectec

[opal basalt]

I get that, but I’ve gotten used to the dance+sectech macro that I kinda cba anymore without it

[keen dome]

Tell them it's a group wide DR

And they should stand ini t

[vale pine]

haha

[mighty citrus]

i said its like darkness

[fiery fog]

We just gotta obscure the vison for all for them to be annoyed by it
As soon as the dks are annoyed by it and send 1 post we are getting fixed!

[mighty citrus]

they dont need to worry

😄

[celest spruce]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RvXg1Bp69ahGFfky?fight=22&type=summary

could any help me improve on this fight? Unsure what I'm doing suboptimally.

[vale pine]

i need to test premed in dungeons

did some yesterday without

[keen dome]

Nod

[opal basalt]

Premed in dungeons feels good

[keen dome]

I think in dungeons it feels fine without 'cos you'll always have cobies rolling and can just aoe

[vale pine]

also i am not convinced to play tfd less

[opal basalt]

Because you do dmg quicker

[keen dome]

Also true

[vale pine]

i did half half

[opal basalt]

Big spike fast is more satisfying than late

[vale pine]

2 with and 2 without tfd

and tfd felt better

tho my tank also did baby pulls

so it felt bad overall

[fiery fog]

Small pulls feel so bad rn

[vale pine]

(one pack at the time, pulled next pack once the last mob was nearly dead but just had enough hp to not die before the next pull)

(so i had A LOT of 2-3 target cleave)

[opal basalt]

Oh yeah love that

Do you think speaking up would help there?

[vale pine]

i mean

it was with guild

and we timed the keys (12/13) just fine

if the tank feels better by playing one pack at the time

[keen dome]

This is why we need rogue tank spec. We need to seize the means of big dps production

[vale pine]

its fine, his comfort zone

[opal basalt]

Like I have a friend who started tanking this season and idk if I was wrong doing it but I definitely told him to just be confident and pull bigger rather than 1 pack at a time

Though I agree that this season you can definitely go slow and still easily time

[vale pine]

if you go higher

you need to pull more

or timer will be an issue

but for 12-14

[keen dome]

I told my tank "Pull until we die" and she did, and we did. Then we did that -1 and it was fine.

[vale pine]

baby pulls are fine

[fiery fog]

A rogue friend of mine started too because rogue pugging is at an all time low it feels like
Monk tank and he just pulls BIG

[opal basalt]

Friend plays bear

[fiery fog]

Love to have a tank slave

[grizzled hornet]

please no

[keen dome]

tank spec! tank spec!

[opal basalt]

I have to encourage him to play higher keys

[short radish]

tank spec! tank spec!

[opal basalt]

But I think I can

[keen dome]

[opal basalt]

I just shotcall in keys with him in voice and he feels immediately safer than in pugs he said

Like it really helps taking mental load off your players

Who’d have guessed

[fiery fog]

Its easier to play your class and have things shotcalled to you

[vale pine]

i think it comes down to tank too

*class

druid and monk can easier pull big

[opal basalt]

For sure

But man did I have a funny key with a dh tank last week

He legit pulled from after 2nd boss to the room before 3rd boss

That was peak fun

Just press W

[keen dome]

I want a tank spec s I can go "watch this" and then die in a funny way

[vale pine]

you can do that without a tank spec

[keen dome]

You might say "but y-

[vale pine]

"watch me reset the boss"

[keen dome]

yes but it isn't as funny

[vale pine]

"dies"

[opal basalt]

Nah this always gets a laugh out of my guildies

[keen dome]

A friend of mine always does boss resets on classes that can't reset bosses. it's a great bit.

[alpine wraith]

a warrior can always reset

jump onto the boss

die it resets

big

[keen dome]

the warrior way

[opal basalt]

Or on vorasius when I 100% garroted the boss after my tank pulled and still got the first melee despite tricks

That was funny

[alpine wraith]

vorasius just hits closest

[opal basalt]

Yeah we realised that

I stopped shadowstepping him after that

Beceause I realised he has a huge fucking hitbox

[void ocean]

do u guys think they will ever fix this distract shit

[fiery fog]

The best thing is a ranged pre pulling and youre the one getting slapped by the boss

[opal basalt]

That’s also nice

You could say that’s what we have cheat for

[fiery fog]

And then everyone says „its the rogue again“

Jensbsjyk

[opal basalt]

But haha imagine being able to trust your healers enough to play cheat over feint dr

[vale pine]

possible

it is low in impact

you have enough energy usually outside of the opener

[fiery fog]

It is also low on ressources to fix it though

[vale pine]

and we are not constrained during cooldowns

[fiery fog]

Just remove the energy cost when specced into the talent

[vale pine]

would be one solutiin

make distract free

[void ocean]

free distract inc

[fiery fog]

Too broken

[vale pine]

ye

[void ocean]

but nerf rogue st bc of that xD

[fiery fog]

Oh wait
You wont use it anyway

[vale pine]

like no fall damage

(i think most people don't get that reference)

[alpine wraith]

so if we cant to just strike guidon blades dance strike do we want a little extra haste

to not get the extra 0.2 krangle?

although tbh the vanish in between dances can be a bit troll lots of bosses kick you out of stealth instantly XD

[void ocean]

how do u guys evaluate if enough time has passed between trinket and burst

[open coyote]

is premed also bad in m+? i kind of feel super whack sometimes when playing without it

[void ocean]

do u track haste?

[alpine wraith]

you cant really track server ticks

so just eyeball like almost 1 sec

after pressing it

[vale pine]

we technically have enough with 700, but ye, some extra can't hurt

tho

!opener

[wicked jolt]

The following opener is recommended without Premeditation:
Shadowstrike-> Vanish +Shadowstrike -> Backstab until 7 cp + Guidon -> Cooldowns

[vale pine]

you can just do that

[alpine wraith]

that one makes me angry because fucken bosses kick me out of stealth

and i have to stab anyway

[fiery fog]

Good thing you cant instantly strike when pressing vanish

[alpine wraith]

you can but even with my super reflexes i get kicked out so many times

trust i can do ar10 dt in osu!

[vale pine]

^ tl;dr: the first iteration of black powder caused a short animation lock but did throw you up in the air, negating fall damage. Content creators back then mentioned how completely busted no fall damage was.

its funny to think about that

[alpine wraith]

rofl the meme vault

you could go up in the air btw

[vale pine]

because every class released after that basically has no fall damage

[alpine wraith]

if you spammed it enough and step

[vale pine]

"no fall damage op"

[alpine wraith]

oh true dh and evo

can just spacebar

[vale pine]

dh - no fall damage
dragon race - no fall damage

[alpine wraith]

meanwhile going from legion to bfa

[pastel rampart]

is there a class that actually takes fall dmg anymore?

[alpine wraith]

my deaths to fall damage

skyrocketed

[green torrent]

is it a bug that in m+ trash packs target me and start casting while I'm no where near them, in stealth and not in combat?

[fiery fog]

Priest

[pastel rampart]

has levitate

[void ocean]

dk

[pastel rampart]

tru

[fiery fog]

oh

Thought thats mage

Ability

[pastel rampart]

mage has slow fall

[void ocean]

mage has freefall

or slow fall ye

[fiery fog]

Shaman?

[void ocean]

and u dont need feathers anymore for it like in good ole times

[tidal solstice]

i still get clowned but yeah dracthyr rogue is the best. glide so good

[alpine wraith]

shaman has gust or charge i think?

[vale pine]

dk ^^

[regal snow]

feral lunge isnt real

required target

[vale pine]

most classes can mitigate fall damage

in one way or the other

fall damage was never a problem ^^

[fiery fog]

Rogue cant if there is no target though

[vale pine]

just play outlaw ^^

[fiery fog]

No

[vale pine]

hook does not require a target

we get lower fall damage by default

[fiery fog]

It requires me to play outlaw

[vale pine]

tbh no sprint on water

[fiery fog]

Which aint happening

[vale pine]

is somehting i can't get used to

it wa such a niche thing

but still big qol sometimes

(same with no fall damage)

[alpine wraith]

no fall damage has killed me many times

you just cant give those kind of things

then take them away

[empty bobcat]

ember+gaze simming same as guidon+gaze is very weird no? all same ilvl

5 targets 1min

[alpine wraith]

we dont really do those kind of sims

but yea 2 passives is fine on super constant aoe

but that does not happen often

[empty bobcat]

probably guidon better on packs that live 1.5min+

[alpine wraith]

yea or if you keep pulling

[empty bobcat]

ye

still box so much ahead T_T

[alpine wraith]

yea box is just super strong because of how pulling in wow works

where the mob hp is backloaded into who can burst higher

and they steal other's people's dps

[keen steppe]

How long will they need to fix the bugs with prem and the energycosts from blades? I guess they will fix it with season 2

[empty bobcat]

they hopefully fix devourer asap

[keen steppe]

Whats bugged there?

[celest spruce]

whats the current energy count to do a successful blades + dance + sectech now?

[keen steppe]

60 when i remember correctly

[short radish]

30+35 = 65

[celest spruce]

so shit

[lucid jackal]

35 from where

Bros just making up numbers

[short radish]

sectech?

[lucid jackal]

sectec is 30

Noob

[short radish]

[keen steppe]

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/stink-green-aura-gas-fart-walk-gif-1314043816381021953

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/made-up-making-things-up-misinformation-spreading-misinformation-lying-gif-5615616319157116451

[open depot]

Can’t believe anyone in this discord anymore 😔

[still quartz]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fiery fog]

Premed never
Energy cost maybe in the upcoming days (if there is nothing coming within 2 weeks about that you can just see it as intended kekw)

[hallow mortar]

Depends if they know about it too