subtlety

[short radish]

go to sleep peacefully

[vale nebula]

i feel like crit is not doing anything for me - when I had high mastery it ffelt like i pumper the hardest

[short radish]

okay go get high mastery then

[vast echo]

Is that 650-700 after oils - keep doubting myself lately on this

[dry flame]

Yesterday I pugged myth chim as sub in the morning, boss dmg was popping, but the spec felt off, idk

[short radish]

it's 700 before pressing any trinkets

you can use whatever you want to get to that point

[vale nebula]

right only did 2 keys this week as sub with her crit and fgelt off

[vale nebula]

700 haste right

[short radish]

yes

or 800 with pbox

[wanton mantle]

yeah i was wondering if dungeon slice might be undervalueing crit

[vast echo]

Do you happen to know what haste it should be with everything up (Inc trinket)

[short radish]

no. just get 700 haste with guidon, 800 haste with pbox

[vast echo]

But taking into account full hero and full myth lol

Or am I cooked

[short radish]

youre cooked

get your appropriate breakpoint

acquire crit/mastery

any stat difference you have between the two

unless its like omega imbalanced

and you somehow have acquired 0 crit and all mastery

which isn't even possible

it won't matter

[lapis violet]

Did some stats sim, crit is very very very little difference to mastery, it's nearly the same

[empty bobcat]

we use 2min trinkets like 3min trinkets right?

[short radish]

yes

well

at a basic level yes

arguarbly cooldown management and when you press things will have much more impact than whatever stats you have (past stat weights)

at a basic level you press on cooldown

and you'll be fine

because overthinking generally leads to bad

but then if you want to start consider fight timings

lets assume we're playing with premed here

the boss dies at 3:50

so you send at
0:00 (pbox)
1:30 (no pbox)

you could send at
3:00 with no pbox

or you could send at 3:30 with pbox

you are still getting the same amount of cooldown casts

but youre now getting another use of pbox

stuff like that will have more impact than 50 more crit/mastery adjustment

but again, that's a bit more complex

[summer peak]

Is there anyoone else having an issue when using their SB/SD/ST macro for opener? my Sechtec is not going off, i had to press it again for it to go off...<

[short radish]

and you need to understand fight timings more

[steady dune]

im seeing something similar vinde

[spice matrix]

SB currently costs 30 energy

[short radish]

[dusky yacht]

827 crit with flask and oils, 687 haste, 968 mastery.
Starting to think I shouldn't even recraft my neck, can't see anything anywhere about recraft bug being fixed.
Plus this doesn't look too bad tbh.

[short radish]

sb cost 30 energy, sectech costs 35 energy

30+35 = 65

[steep raven]

Do we know whether raidbots sim premed bug?

[summer peak]

i did but am i blind? i cant seem to see anything on it?

[summer peak]

oh, sorry i was looking for sectec not SB issue. ok that makes sense.

[glad bough]

lol this spec is not fun i dont wanna drop my CD's and have the tank iommediatly take it out and i get 10 seconds of it...lol. i know some peeps are killin it with this but man thats a frustrating fact of this shit

[frail kindle]

skill issue

[short radish]

all good. this is a bloody mess of a patch and things are fucked everywhere

[frail kindle]

dont press blades til grouping is done

or just run back in cloud and step back in

[glad bough]

exactly a skill issue lol Auxeus nice burn

[vast echo]

Premed bug gives the tank time to position while you backstab 50 times

[short radish]

i agree with you it's shit but it also is a skill issue

you will just have to chill

and wait for tanks to finish pulling

it is what it is

you also do have the option of just not playing with the new talent

and doing the exact same as you were doing before

free will is a wonderful thing

[glad bough]

yes i understand that lol. then tank settles you drop it ground mechanic pulls tank out. im not doing much difference in over all so it is just me venting because it feels like what death and decay use to be like or sentinel hunter 🙂 going backwards

[short radish]

yah it's dog shit

this is why we need to gaslamp the community

[frail kindle]

yeah im not gonna say its GOOD gameplay

[dry flame]

Timings are clear, I kick, blind, kidney, pop CDs and nobody in the group kicks and I die

[short radish]

into thinking it's a DR

[chilly dagger]

Is it normal that basically by just putting on a 266 sword (compared to 289 dagger), outlaw sims like 15k dps better on dungeon slice?

[glad bough]

its okay to not like it and it not be a skill issue lmao

[frail kindle]

actually true

[short radish]

yes.

also #outlaw

idk why blizzard decided to double down on the worst part of both rogue gameplay and other class gameplay

they delete marked for death

only to add it back

they delete the night fae bullshit hunters had to deal wiht

only to add it back

[glad bough]

skill issue for blizzard

[short radish]

💯

[dry flame]

Looking at what a mess this patch is... Yeah

Beta was borderline smoother

[glad bough]

they are too worried about having like 8 different ways to gear and shit thats why

[dry flame]

Even their flagship prop hunt is crazy bad and buggy (and design issues)

[chilly dagger]

Hmmm guess need to practice it then ._.

[vast echo]

Why does everything need a prop hunt mode now

[short radish]

outlaw requires 1h slow weapon

dunno why, but you can ask there

something to do with normalisation

[dry flame]

You also get penalty no rewards if you hide well

And it gives you white item that doesn't auto sell

[chilly dagger]

I just got the hc aelleria sword, which i used to sim it for fun… but i was shocked it seems to be that much stronger on my gear… like i got no versa at all and am full mastery basically… so it even has potential, while i dont have so much left on sub

Eg getting a crafted 285 weapon

[balmy gate]

Bc the m+ Player Base or RAID Player Base is a small amount Most ppl Just Farm and have a good time thats how Blizzard works 😉

[outer orchid]

found this in the brewmaster discord channel
thought i'd share it here
it's a command for !stats there haha

[steady dune]

jesus a 3yr olds handwriting is more legible

[outer orchid]

makes it more funny

[dry flame]

Brewmaster wrote it, they were drunk

[steady dune]

if it was a pally, it'd be crayon scribles

[dry flame]

And if it was a vengeance, they'd be dead

[short radish]

honestly

that's not entirely wrong

[frail kindle]

dude lura is such a banger boss

would be perfect if there were no p1 adds to pad on

[keen steppe]

I like the new hero talent but jesus you cant see anything when it pops

[native zodiac]

You can turn down settings and you wont see it, only a white circle

[steady dune]

you have to rely on other things to know if you are in mechs or not

like your character getting bigger, arrows, shit like that

[finite lynx]

which buff is it that i need to track to know when im going to get refunded CP?

[steady dune]

for instance, the tank smash on the dino will increase your characters size and cause your screen to zoom out a bit

[finite lynx]

shadow techniques or ancient arts

[brisk onyx]

aa

[steady dune]

shadow techniques

[finite lynx]

O_O

[brisk onyx]

by spell alert

[steady dune]

nvm, yeah AA

ST is the extra on builder

[fiery summit]

is first dance no longer taken for m+?

looking at the new builds in the pin

[plush roost]

its real xd

idk i fixed it by playing assa and switching back

weridge

[brisk onyx]

If you like big pull, tfd is fine

[fiery summit]

hmm okay ty

[frail kindle]

WTH

new tech found boys

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2hBzshfWLjQXqvi7NKYC3U

+359 dps perforated veins swap

[empty bobcat]

I feel like Box+Heart is the best alternative if you dont mythic raid, it sims almost the same for me on ST and pulls ahead in 2min aoe fights

[dusky yacht]

Swap from where?

[frail kindle]

veiled touch

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

how was your first day of raiding?

[dusky yacht]

Good morning!

[frail kindle]

GM

[plush roost]

Deepening stopped working 20 pulls in so i played assa

6 second dances aint it

[vale pine]

huh, thats new

i haven't had a problem

tho i experimented with openers a bit

[native zodiac]

I had that aswell on lura the other day, relog fixed it

[vale pine]

(in game, not simc)

i think i like strike/guidon-dance+strike-secret

[vale osprey]

Did a lil teensy bit of heroic yesterday, we really are egg scrambler spec. We start progging it on myth tonight so will see what the intermission dam is like. I still hate not playing premed but oh well 🙃

[vale pine]

egg boss is interessting

sub probably rly good if you eggmaxx

[dusky yacht]

This is the best thing I've heard all morning

I wanna eggmaxx

[raw frost]

guys i wanna ask soemthing off topic ;d

does anyone already got an mythic item from the ritual event shit

[frail kindle]

any eggmaxxers

[dusky yacht]

Eggmaxxer reporting for duty, Sir!

[fiery summit]

is it okay to use the general raid build for all fights or should i be using the specific boss builds in the raid tips section

[abstract pine]

i simmed dungeon slice top gear and now i got 870 haste. even with guidon equipped .. idk if i should trust 😄

[frail kindle]

dont

700 haste then crit then mast

spec is kinda cringe now that u cant trust sims but it is what it is

[abstract pine]

yea thats what i thought, ty!

[vale osprey]

Not sure if they've been updated since our patch

[vale pine]

think it was tested on ptr and only dropped heroic

[fiery summit]

looks like they have cause they dont take premed and do take rotten

[void ocean]

we are so back

[vale osprey]

Oh, if they're updated with cloud cover then Fuu is on it

[fiery summit]

some take cloud some dont

[brisk onyx]

twice dragon and paladin boss can use m+ build and high mastery gear

[fiery summit]

idk if thats cause high movement fights or something

[vale pine]

i play without audio

but i wonder

is anyone in chat who is good with addon dev?

or well, somewhat knowlagable of the game textures

That's a smoke bomb on lower particle density settings

[fiery summit]

yeah i figured those two, other fights have slight variations tho. might just run standard raid build for the rest

[vale pine]

it looks to me like the "smoke" is a texture

i wonder if i can replace the texture with something else, so you can see ground effects still during encounters

[pure cloud]

Glitter

[serene tapir]

Is it stil 800 haste w/o trinket in m+?

[outer orchid]

bro that bug was game-breaking
it was our #1 priority to get that one fixed
every other bug is just a skill issue

[fallow rampart]

Guys if I have guidon what is my correctly rotation with BL?

[unreal silo]

backstabbing before first dance during bl makes me wanna commit neck rope

[worn sapphire]

exactly how im feeling

[outer orchid]

ss>vanish>ss

for before first dance

[mint perch]

"As Trickster :Trickster: on all target counts: Try to ensure that you always have :ancientarts: active for your supercharged non-Secret Technique Finisher during :ShadowDance:. (This can mean using :ShadowStrike:/:ShurikenStorm: at full CP to activate it)" why we don't apply this to secret tech too ?

[keen dome]

I'm so glad they found the stealth sound file again

[outer orchid]

as if sound files weren't causing enough problems already

[stray bloom]

what are we runnin in mythic+ now? same as before but add cloud cover? or go rotten

[glass copper]

rotten is for ST only, check pinned messages for new patch info

[stray bloom]

tyty

[vale pine]

tbh would just experiment with different patterns and try to find a good trade-off between visibility and obfuscation

[keen dome]

I like the idea of it being a smoke bomb, it being subterfuge, etc. But yah

Could've done somethign cooler

[vale pine]

the chanegs are basically:

• premeditation -> utility node
• skill into cloud cover
• tfd if you have dungeons/groups you can restealth/proc it efficiently

[vale pine]

i think too functional about it, i want somehting i know where to stand in, but nothing that actively makes it harder for me to play an encounter

[keen dome]

I think that should be the baseline view of the design, imo

It should be visible, but unintrusive.

[steady dune]

anyone got an addon that can add a count down till TFD is active?

[glass copper]

had a tank complaining to me about it today 🙂

[keen dome]

Ky'veza, my beloved. But I guess this is a visual they'd want to work for both outlaw and sub.

[keen dome]

tell them it's a DR ability

[vale pine]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[glass copper]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-markiplier-gif-14835823

[steady dune]

Fuu coming in clutch as always

[keen dome]

"It's 30% DR for 10s, man. trust me. I wouldn't lie. I'm just a rogue"

[steady dune]

thank you

[vale pine]

no problem

i hate it when there is 1 sec left on tfd

and tank puts me in combat

[keen dome]

this is why we need to be the tank

[steady dune]

for sure. starting a boss encounter shouldnt automatically put you into combat

[vale pine]

some packs put you in combat too

or if you ever play a below 12

some of the affixes

[stoic granite]

anyone got addon to show text when im outside stealth and/or no shadowstep charges left? Would be great if it also works with blink (mage)

[keen dome]

lol, the fucking affix this week is SO BAD for it

[vale pine]

i do mostly 12s

but when we did some 10s with guildies for weekly

its always so annoying

[keen dome]

Yeah

I need to start just doing 12's for weeklies 'cos the 10's yesterday were dire

[keen steppe]

Every affix under 12 keeps you infight, break your stealth rip off your cooldowns

[fallow rampart]

guys why i see ppls prefer more mastery in keys but my sims don’t like mastery and everything crit ?

I have 900crit and 550 mastery, if I swap like 100-150 in mastery I lost 3,3%

[keen dome]

Mastery gains more value as pulls get bigger 'cos AoE. Sims aren't 1:1 reality.

If you wanna run more mastery, do it

[vale pine]

ye, mastery is king in keys

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[vale pine]

i m not entirely sure how smart that command is

but i got asked about the opener a lot

should probably add guidon to the strike in the first version too

[keen dome]

Probably help some people

i'm just gonna keep using premed because it comfy

[vale pine]

tbh

it took me some tries to get used to the new opener

but when i tested, i did rly like the 2nd of the ones i posted above

[fallow rampart]

How I should sim correctly? Some ppls saying dungeon slice, some 10target 1,5min

[vale pine]

dungeon slice

BUT

don't be fully raid buffed

make sure to only use buffs which you have reliably in your dungeon group

e.g. you will always have bloodlust

[short radish]

[vale pine]

but you probably won't have skyflurry every dungeon

[keen dome]

I tend to sim with a tabula rasa. Just bloodlust, nothing else, since it's all so varliable.

[fallow rampart]

Well I will try, but if I remember dungeon slice don’t like my swap into mastery

550 mastery very low for key?

[vale pine]

same for the sheet

[keen dome]

You can know better than the robot.

[vale pine]

but man -.-

[keen dome]

More mastery is betterer in big AoE pulls. Dungeon Slice is a specific slice of a synthetic dungeon run, so it isn't gonig to be the same as a +16 key

[vale pine]

outlaw is driving me crazzy

[keen dome]

Oh?

What've they done this time

[vale pine]

[fallow rampart]

I want to find balance between crit mastery in keys

[vale pine]

12th by now or so

[keen dome]

You'll probably need to eyeball it and it's also going to be a much of a muchness

[keen dome]

Hahaah damn

[tribal blade]

your dps won't shift significantly by a few % of crit and mast

[keen dome]

As I understand it: More crit = better ST. More mastery = better AoE in big pulls in keys.

But also what Prophet said

[vale pine]

i mean, it was 0.4 even

[keen dome]

The robot won't help you when your situation is variable and dynamic

[empty bobcat]

was in 13 Adademy yesterday and the tank was like "WTF IS THAT SMOKE????"

[keen dome]

IT'S DR BRO, IT'S HUGE DR. STACK IN IT

[vale pine]

i unlocked the infinite dps hack

XD

[tribal blade]

do other players actually get the DR too?

i think i saw something about that

or someone said they wish it worked like that

not sure

[keen dome]

no

but they don't know that

[tribal blade]

makes sense

[keen dome]

one weird trick to get your tank to stack in the cloud

[fallow rampart]

Ye I’m just trying problem between my sin and sub, on paper I have close dps on every sim (not ST), but in key meter my sub overall suck a bit. Maybe I’m bad on sub, maybe stats, because I full crit on my sin and playing with same gear

[serene tapir]

Hardest task of em all

[fiery summit]

be me
run pit
loot hero dagger...
reroll
......
...
..
bracers
fml

[keen dome]

rip

[fiery summit]

game literally laughing in my face

[keen dome]

next one'll be pants

[fiery summit]

stooppppp

[tribal blade]

yeah you're gonna lose aoe if you're full blasting crit over mast

[fiery summit]

ill crash out

[tribal blade]

for sure

not sure how big the diff is though

[keen dome]

pants are good!

[fiery summit]

ive already got them in myth from vault :(

[fallow rampart]

Like 950-1000 crit and 550 mastery

[fiery summit]

unless...

craft belt, use bracer

kinda waste of crests tho

[pale ravine]

In the big bug Post on reddit, it says:Rogue primary and secondary stat priorities shifted so severely that mains are being forced to re-gear entirely to match what was framed as a tuning pass, not a re-weight. "
Is this true for sub as well and if how so?

[keen dome]

that's not true for sub

[lilac stag]

That’s specifically sub

[keen dome]

damn, we're being forced to regear entirely from haste -> crit+mastery to haste -> crit+mastery

[lilac stag]

Going crit haste over haste mastery is what most would consider a significant gain

[lucid jackal]

I dont know where this reddit post got its ideas from LOL

I hate stats

Nobody understand stats in this game

LOL

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[keen dome]

People are so weird about stats

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[outer orchid]

i'm going to post it again because i think its comedic timing

[lilac stag]

so 2-3 recrafts a bug.

[keen dome]

I would consider that true if we suddenly had to drop haste entirely, that'd be it.

"Get some more crit" ain't it

[tribal blade]

kinda depends though, if you're fucking up haste breakpoint on sub that's very major

or if your crit is super low on sin that's major

[dry flame]

Thanks Obama

[tribal blade]

but other than extreme cases yeah doesn't matter

[blissful ivy]

Go 500 haste without a guidon amd repost this plz after ur raid

[keen dome]

If you have 500 haste then you aren't getting the haste breakpoint and that's just.. why?

[brisk onyx]

use Crippling Poison hehe

[tribal blade]

he's being sarcastic haha

[lilac stag]

People are generally frustrated with this patch (and rightfully so). Frustrated people tend to start digging deeper and deeper to build up more frustration towards whatever caused the initial issues.

[timber sparrow]

does anyone know how much of a dps loss taking premed is?

[keen dome]

oh

Haha

fair

[tribal blade]

i think the stats don't matter argument only truly matters when people are obsessing over shifting small %s

[dry flame]

All I know is, I tried outlaw in 12-14s yesterday and it felt like I've never played the spec before. Gonna be a bit of a learning curve

[tribal blade]

(which is how people obsess about stats mostly tbh)

[dry flame]

Sub on my myth Chim pug was pumping boss dmg tho, so that's nice

[upbeat sorrel]

Chat what's a good dungeon to bonus roll if we don't need trinkets

[outer orchid]

if you fail to follow basic stat priorities and put yourself under 600 haste which is literally the only 100% definite stat requirement people ever talk about for sub then you fit right in with the people asking about stats

[keen dome]

Pit, probably? Really good pants, dagger, a good ring. Nexus is another good option for chest, cloak, rings

[short radish]

nonono i want to take screenshots out of context and keep reposting them

[pale ravine]

stats are a small celing raiser. Therefore we take every advantage we can get

[lucid jackal]

Does anybody know if crafting was fixed

[tribal blade]

depends on the scale

[keen dome]

Nexus dagger isn't as nice as Pit dagger, but Nexus rings are very nice, plus catalyst chest and the cloak is identical to the catalyst cloak with slightly worse mastery

[tribal blade]

no idea, but i've been enjoying finding new bugs throughout this time

found a new one today

bugged weekly in harandar

[short radish]

you will gain more dps from understanding what you are doing wrong with your gameplay than swapping 100 mastery to 100 crit

[vale pine]

the "re-gearing" is literally 3 diffrent gear pieces or so

haha

maybe 4

and switching flask to crit

🤣

[tribal blade]

this

[keen dome]

🙏 preach

Gear is an illusion, pushing buttons is real

now excuse me I'm going to whine about not having Gaze yet

[tribal blade]

conversely when someone is like "hey i'm playing sub with 300 haste and my ST is terrible what gives"

that's when stats really really matter

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's a fundamental issue with the spec understanding though

[short radish]

stats matter up to a certain point and then they don't

[tribal blade]

yeah if you understood the spec in the first place you wouldn't let your stats get to that point haha

[keen dome]

Because if you had the understanding you'd build to the haste cap. (I am not defending the haste cap, it is boring and bad, but that's still a fundamental misunderstanding of how the spec plays)

[short radish]

something something exponential graphs

[keen dome]

ye

Having 700 haste is infnite DPS, having 700 haste and 2 mastery is marginal gains

[tribal blade]

the biggest minmaxing of gear i did was when pushing keys

[brisk onyx]

I only recraft a ring

[tribal blade]

and eeking out vers whenever possible

[fossil forge]

Finals passed

Wallahi wow weekend inc

[tribal blade]

without dropping too much dps

[slender kraken]

Also I done raid last night that shit is awful. 2-3 back stabs. Waiting to do blades for smoke. Then waiting stec to also pop

[short radish]

there's two sorts of stat requirements in wow

Acquire X stat to Y amount and then get a mixture of the other 2 stats that aren't vers
Prioritise stats with going for X but getting Y and Z is not going to be that bad for you as long as it's not vers

[tribal blade]

have i manifested 3 trinkets for people in here including myself

[keen dome]

It's also important to understand that, like, the level of where you are playing dictates this stuff too, right? Statting at very high push levels is gonna be different from the general gamer doing weeklies or 14 - 16's, etc.

[fossil forge]

Prophet is the trinket merchant

[blissful ivy]

U don't understand what i ment i think. U link a funny picture bout stats being unimportant. But they ain't.

[short radish]

holy shit so true

[fossil forge]

U should start charging for your services @tribal blade

[dry flame]

All my Sims on all 3 specs atm prio Pit ring over Nexus ones

[vale pine]

congratulations

[tribal blade]

lol nah someone's not gonna get it

[short radish]

you also don't understand the picture

[pulsar prawn]

unsure if I should be trusting sims when it comes to gems/enchants because my haste is hella low and feels ass to play. any ideas on what I should do?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fiwcaQPoiB4qQex1qdmi4U

[tribal blade]

and then i'll be in trouble

[keen dome]

Hell yeah! Congrats

[fossil forge]

Thanks homies

[keen dome]

it's gonna be me

[vale pine]

once you hit the haste breakpoint, its kinda w/e if you invest in mastery or crit

as is

mastery = better in aoe

crit = better in st

[tribal blade]

JUST BELIEVE

[vale pine]

but you always want a mix of both

[short radish]

yeah

but it's kinda hard to acutally fuck up your stats

without doing other things wrong

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

fuck up is like

have no haste

and all in vers?

[short radish]

yes

[keen dome]

And I think once you understand the mastery = aoe, crit = ST, you don't need the robot. You can just eyeball it.

[short radish]

which you can do sure

but then youve also done other things wrong

which is acquiring vers

[keen dome]

taking anything but speed is a fuckup

[fiery summit]

hows this mix for m+ (i have a mastery flask on rn)

[tribal blade]

the fun thing is forgetting to swap gear sets for a key

and then doing almost identical dps

[keen dome]

more speed needed

[short radish]

is your haste either 700 (guidon) or 800 (pbox) if so then yeah youre good

[fiery summit]

703 haste btw

with guido

[fossil forge]

all fun and games till u go st with 600 haste

[dry flame]

Imo, gearing stopped being a huge deal /interesting after legion (exception with corruption) .
While a lot of pain points, with Titanforging and a lot of powerful items like legendaries and trinkets like CoF, Legion was fun for gearing.

[tribal blade]

that was for previous seasons haha

[short radish]

i went 700 haste with pbox because i forgot to swap stats back on birb

[tribal blade]

i've never done that in midnight

[outer orchid]

i've been using guidon in my keys now

since im over trying to push in pug

been pretty relaxing

[keen dome]

Ye, I personally find gearing pretty boring these days and often a source of frustration. It's a means to an end rather than anything very interesting.

[vale pine]

i switched to this so far

[tribal blade]

holy shit i don't miss titanforging, what a nightmare

[vast echo]

Talentgearswap addon

[dry flame]

[keen dome]

Often it's "Ah yes I did not get the trinket / cantrip drop for six weeks this is fun gaming i want the cool item" even though it's extremely w/e and I can do the content I do regardless

[tribal blade]

i just have it assigned in default UI

you can do that

[vale pine]

tho i think i have too much haste

XD

[keen dome]

get 5 more, imo

[fiery summit]

and that is raid gear with crit flask (712 haste)

[pulsar prawn]

I need some

[outer orchid]

please do not bring back these memories for me

[vast echo]

I mean auto swapping sets when you talent swap? (Not just spec)

[fiery summit]

i think im good right

[outer orchid]

i had them repressed

[fossil forge]

If you have a crafted haste mastery dagger u can recraft for -40 haste

[dry flame]

Hot take, but Titanforging can be good if you could manually reach those max levels like the current upgrade system (turbo boost style)

[tribal blade]

i used to have that set up yeah

not anymore

[tribal blade]

possibly yeah

but the way it worked before

[vale pine]

true

[tribal blade]

very toxic

[limber cedar]

Morning. Since sims are a bit misleading, is it better to run main stat pot or secondary stat? in either m+ or raid

[fossil forge]

I was cooking haste yday i managed to get it down to 717 from 780

[lucid jackal]

Why would the sims be misleading exactly

[outer orchid]

[lucid jackal]

But either way, the mainstat pot lol

[tribal blade]

eleem was saying he highly suggests just running main stat

[brisk onyx]

[tribal blade]

because of DR

[limber cedar]

Tells me to lower my haste even though im at 700 xD

[tribal blade]

secondary pot will heavily DR

[fiery summit]

holy good or holy bad LOL

[short radish]

sims have been misleading in general this tier because of the haste stuff

[brisk onyx]

Holy critical monster

[fiery summit]

oh. yeah myth wedding band will do that

[quiet condor]

are bonus rolls/recrafts fixed already?

[upbeat sorrel]

Is puzzle box better than guidon for keys

[outer orchid]

uhh
i think i'm worse
no consumes

[molten citrus]

bonus rolls supposedly fixed as per wowhead post

recrafts

[quiet condor]

alr ty

[short radish]

im still waiting 2 more days

i dont trust blizzard

[quiet condor]

same

XD

[short radish]

like im sure they've fixed something

but im sure there's 5 other bugs hidden somewhere because they've just copied and pasted the bonus roll code from mop

[vale pine]

i might switch my back from haste/mastery to crit/mastery

[magic orchid]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[fossil forge]

Yea i recrafted dagger and changed gems

[brisk onyx]

Hahaha me too

[fossil forge]

To mastery crit crit mastery

[lucid jackal]

Did anybody check if recrafts work

Did they fix it

[upbeat sorrel]

I didn't read pins so I'm still playing 1000 haste deathstalker

Rank 1 deathstalker parse on all bosses

[fossil forge]

What was wrong

I recrafted nothing went wrong

[vale pine]

0.8% dps gain

seems good to me

lets do that

[outer orchid]

i did my recrafts an hour after servers re-opened

[brisk onyx]

I recraft 2 item and safe

[short radish]

items deleting itself or something

[fossil forge]

[trail bison]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[fallow rampart]

Guys when bl during we use same rule with guidon guide?

[fossil forge]

Did anyone figure out What is delaying the second dance in blades?

Surely more people started to experience this

[short radish]

wym delay

[fossil forge]

Imagine u go cds

[outer orchid]

after first sd in fight, what timings should i be looking for with vanish? should i be saving for 3rd blades in between dances still or just sending when i need cps

[fossil forge]

First dance ends

[grizzled hornet]

i recrafted 2 belts and 2 daggers yday, nothing wrong

[fossil forge]

I mash dance button and it doesnt give me dance for like 2-3 globals

Its very random

Macros seem to ignore this bug

[short radish]

[fossil forge]

Ive tried disabling addons

[short radish]

i h ave not experienced

[fossil forge]

Changing spells on bars

[vale pine]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[short radish]

but all my sdances are macros

[fossil forge]

Someone sent here a video i tagged bingus

Its not cloud cover

[pale ravine]

Doing both, like changing trinket to SB timing. Or trying to find a cloud/cloud buff tracker.

[short radish]

yes all of those things are good

and honestly also min maxxing your stats is also good

its just that min maxxing stats will net you .5% at most probably

unless your stats are omega fucked

[fossil forge]

Im gonna scroll up like 13 hours and imma tag you fimbul

[vale pine]

what is this

where does it come from

[keen dome]

Damn, the big scroll

[vale pine]

the art bar

[keen dome]

Edit mode

[brisk onyx]

New bug

[short radish]

no way

[brisk onyx]

art bar will show randomly

[keen dome]

Hide Bar Art when clicking on a hotbar in Edit Mode

[brisk onyx]

even if you cancel it

[keen dome]

Yeah, sometimes it just wants to hang out

that's been a bug since mid TWW iirc

It comes and goes

[vale pine]

looks rly cool

so random

[brisk onyx]

Welcome to bug world

[unreal silo]

few more years and thats gonna turn into google adspace

[keen dome]

I wonder how many bugs are caused from their server side script fix things breaking constantly

[brisk onyx]

And if you pick some item in delve, your left or right pan will fail (ad or qe).

[keen dome]

yeah, the miror delve

[brisk onyx]

This is a crazy bug

[keen dome]

Another bug that existed since launch but got fixed then broke again

Although it seems worse since the patch

[short radish]

also happens in a panda dungeon im told

[keen dome]

lmao

[violet palm]

I thought I'm going crazy when I got my strafe keys disabled

[keen dome]

I guess it's anything with a vehicle, maybe? Or a specific kind

[vale pine]

well, found it

time to hide

[brisk onyx]

Opus 4.7 is down: Dear user, I will be ceasing bug fixe for you due to a certain security protocol

[keen dome]

Every day I wish I was a billionheir and could buy blizzard

I'd finally have the rogue tank spec

Everyone would get a raise. Way more dev time. Hire full QA groups. rogue tank spec. whatever class annoys me the most would get subtle nerfs.

[pulsar prawn]

is the first haste breakpoint 18% or a specific number? I thought it was 684 but idk if thats accurate anymore

[long cape]

Since yesterday's patch do we get less combo points in the opener ?

[upbeat yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frank wolf]

15 academy - you know i stg if blizz just fixed bugs + made premed work with apex talent i wouldnt ask for anymore tuning

[foggy estuary]

Well, someone is deff annoyed by rogues in general it seems as things are now.

[keen dome]

If you aren't running premed, yes.

[frank wolf]

our tuning is bug fixes

[fossil forge]

@short radish i found it happens randomly

[keen dome]

i can't argue with this. it's true

[cursive tundra]

okay so the most important thing is, they fixed the stealth sound

[keen dome]

YEAH

[cursive tundra]

premed not working + cloud cover costing 30 energy is whatever

that doesn't affect us rotationally at all

important is that we have stealth sound back

[frank wolf]

youre right

[keen dome]

It's very important

[frank wolf]

back to dk and devourer buffs

[keen dome]

How do I know I'm in stealth??

[frank wolf]

for a second there i was worried

[short radish]

10/10 patch

[tepid trellis]

i recrafted day 1 of patch and had 0 issues

[vale pine]

they could just chage premed to give you sht stacks

[cursive tundra]

anyone been doing 18s/19s on sub and has some logs to share?

[keen dome]

Maybe it's good that we didn't get a posion toggle with this patch.

[vale pine]

huh, why

[fossil forge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ab4fF1VW3gNhwLpz?fight=1&type=damage-done

[outer orchid]

it would randomly turn off or just not apply poisons correctly lets be honest here

[fossil forge]

I have pit 18 log(before Buffs)

[keen dome]

buggy

[frank wolf]

assuming they know that rogue is a class in retail, maybe they think its just in classic

[outer orchid]

we already have instances of poisons dropping off

[keen dome]

You toggle the poisons on and it toggles on infinitely

[outer orchid]

with instance changes/loading screens

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

I still personally feel this isn't as bad as 11.0.5 or 11.1.5 but maybe I've just been very lucky.

the worst bug is I can't put the ghostblades on my hips though.

[uncut monolith]

Watching raid encounters 12.0.5 noone plays premed on myth. Just stab first 8-11s then blow up all

[keen dome]

``` damn

they fixed the funny bug

[vale pine]

what bug did you run into with poisons?

[steep raven]

@vale pine Hey, do you know if raidbots sims premed bug?

[tame terrace]

how much % gain is dropping premed

[vale pine]

it does not

[vale pine]

roughly 1%

[steep raven]

ty!

[fossil forge]

Fuu maybe you could have a idea Whats causing this

I pinged fimbul with a video If you scroll up a bit

[keen dome]

oh, no. I was joking. As in, if they added a posion toggle it would've been very buggy because of this patch.

[fiery fog]

Spaghetti code

[vale pine]

haha ye

[pulsar prawn]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[fiery fog]

Poison toggle in 2026? Are you out or your mind? Such technology has not yet been discovered

[long cape]

How bad is to use premed now?

[keen dome]

what can I say, I'm a visionary

[fiery fog]

You know what i think is weird

[fossil forge]

After running no premed all day its not even that bad

[fiery fog]

Our raidbuff lasts 10 seconds of us hitting the boss
While every other raidbuff lasts until its dead

[fossil forge]

Just wasnt used to it

[fiery fog]

And then ours only works if the dmg actually is credited to the boss

[vale pine]

don't find the message using the search

[fossil forge]

@vale pine

[keen dome]

The wording on the ritual sites reward text is, uh. Weird.

[vale pine]

it looks like it waity for the cooldown to finish

you start spamming the macro here

and it activtes here

so right as you get the charge back

[fossil forge]

This happens even with a dance ready though

i just cant replicate it

I will hit dummies for 10 hours today.

Dance macros seem to have no delay though

For some reason when i press dance stech macro i get it instantly

[fiery fog]

Maybe your macro is somehow faulty? (Could be just another bug )

[fossil forge]

How is the macro working but naked dance doesnt

[fiery summit]

guess what fellas

second pit

reroll

pants

LOL

[keen dome]

hell yeah pants are good

[fiery summit]

i have them already from vault lol

[frank wolf]

im boutta send pit rolls too

[keen dome]

rip

[frank wolf]

lots of crit haste

sucks that we're one of the only classes that cant game chimaerus' loot table to have a 1/3 for trink instead of 1/4

[steep raven]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[frank wolf]

weak ass oozing vestige

[maiden oar]

its ok those guys will hit the belt anyway

dont ask me how i know!

[long cape]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[outer orchid]

no consumes
too lazy to recraft again for +40 haste but i think i'm happy with where i'm at for ST 280

[fossil forge]

My goat r u playing ?

[maiden oar]

yeah one of our dhs quit 1wk before raid

so i am filling that spot on the roster this time

going to gear rogue on the side though and maybe prog on rogue next patch

[vale pine]

600 haste seems a bit low

[maiden oar]

[fossil forge]

Its pirate szn

sub feels nice though

[vale pine]

outlaw seems good on statistics

outlaw tier confirmed

[maiden oar]

ok i like outlaw too

[fossil forge]

Im gearing freelildurk for law but bro is kinda 230 ilvl ☠️

[outer orchid]

is +40 haste even that much more cushion atp (genuine question)

going from 638 haste with oils to 678

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frigid shuttle]

Idk if I’m an idiot or what but I’m not doing anything different rotation wise and I am doing about 15k less ST than I did pre-patch

[modest river]

hit 700 with your oils, peaceful gameplay, sim trolls you a little cause it confuses 40 haste that you need as human delay, youll end up missing a gcd and sim cant account for that cause its milisecond accuracy gameplay on sims

[outer orchid]

sim without oils was what brought me to my current stats

i swapped out gems for more haste

[modest river]

yea but right now my sim wants me to drop 50 haste and tells me its giga damage, but ill miss a gcd to in theory its correct, but practically you wont be as tight with timings as the sim itself

[vale pine]

you want 700 at least to fit 2 secret techniques in blades

[modest river]

you ignore the sims for haste between 650 to 700

[outer orchid]

i can with guidon though

[vale pine]

it is more a human error + latency thing

[outer orchid]

with at least 1s to spare

[fallow ingot]

should i recraft Waist with haste crit instead of crit mast tho ?

[modest river]

like i play from India, 120-140 ping, i need 10 more haste over 700 to accurately hit the gcds

[worn sequoia]

I love when an Aug is in the group lol

[modest river]

and its still really tight

[maiden oar]

uh oh!!

[steep raven]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[empty bobcat]

If were to use Ember and Box, which one makes more sense to pop first?

[fiery fog]

You throw away the ember, take the rep trinket and pop box

[keen steppe]

Dont know everytime i play with a aug keys are deplete or are closer to deplete as with a third dps

[vivid spindle]

Is it true, that m+ ist kinda 700 haste, rest => just mastery. And rate kind goes for 50/50 haste crit?

[lapis violet]

Would simply drink haste flask

[fallow ingot]

Worst choice ever tbh, will be way over capped

flask is 165

[lapis violet]

...

It is NOT a cap

[fallow ingot]

u dont need more then 700 if u have guidon

[lapis violet]

But its still good to have

[fiery fog]

Above 700 youre just throwing away stats tbh

[lapis violet]

Wrong

[fallow ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[fiery fog]

Explain why its good to have wasted haste instead of crit/mastery

[lapis violet]

Explain why its wasted

[keen dome]

Isn't the next breakpoint at 1100 haste.

[fiery fog]

Because youre not getting another cast in dance

[keen dome]

Because you don't gain substanial benefit until each breakpoint. So 700~ -> 1100

So having 900 Haste is giving you very little in comparison to if you had 700 haste and 200 more crit/mast.

[lapis violet]

Sim your stats you'll see its still good benefit, in your situation don't change your items every time smth changes

It is NOT giving you very little but it's important to have min 700, thats the difference with a cap

[fiery fog]

The sim either wants too much or not enough haste
Sim os practically useless other than for trinkets
Get to breakpoint and put everything else into crit/mastery

There is no cap
Its a breakpoint

If youre at 700 or 800 is practically the same

You just waste 100 secondaries in the latter one

[lapis violet]

Just responding to the guy who have 600

[outer orchid]

the only benefit of more haste is to reduce st cd but you'll never fit 3 in a single blades window anyways

[lapis violet]

Just change flask until stuff upgrade

St cd is not the only benefit from haste btw

[outer orchid]

might as well be

[lapis violet]

Sim it

You'll see

[keen dome]

No, I won't

[vivid spindle]

Ye but is it true that crit doesnt really matter for m+?

[dreamy wedge]

No.

[keen dome]

Blindly following the sim without understanding what it's doing and why it's going +/- on the Haste isn't a good idea.

[fiery fog]

Mastery is just better at higher target counts
You still want crit

[fiery fog]

Lets go back to vers crit stacking and do what simbot says please

[modest river]

Vers just oivertook mastery for me

[keen dome]

You do gain damage for it above 700 but it is considerably worse than getting more masteyr/crit at that point because the actual benefit from haste above 700 isn't as good as those two stats. It would only matter if you could get up to the next breakpoint and gain more GCD's in dance

Whihc is the entire reason we take haste to where we do

[plush trout]

Im only an m+ player, I have around 600haste 1100 mastery and 550 crit, should I play puzzle box or light compan, and should I take more haste ?

[lapis violet]

No point searching to have exactly 700 and no point more, if you have too less haste don't need to reforge all your items

Juste change flask temporarily

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[keen dome]

Get more haste, if possible. Get to 684 without oils (700~ comfy zone)

[modest river]

i heard you need 800 haste to use puzzle instead of guidon, correct me if im wrong

[keen dome]

And then just slam crit or mast. It's fine. Crit is more ST, mast is more AoE. Pick what you want.

[vale pine]

yes

[fiery fog]

That is correct

[vale pine]

700- guidon
800 - no guidon
1100 - deathstalker

[fiery fog]

I thought the breakpoint is with oils

[plush trout]

So I should go into haste a bit more to use puzzle box

[keen dome]

Yeah, it is. 684 + oils = 700

[long cape]

!consumables

[fiery fog]

Doesnt tha put you at 716

[modest river]

668+ oils

[fiery fog]

Or are you usng the tbc stone

[keen dome]

okay I can't do math

[vale pine]

it is with oils/flasks

[modest river]

im at 672 and get 704 with oils

[keen dome]

26 is more than 16, who knew.

[vale pine]

perfect

[plush trout]

And why do we go for 800 specifically, I can't get 2 Sectech empowered in sb

[vivid spindle]

So im at 420crit 900 mastery. Means i should focus on balancing this a lil more

[fiery fog]

670 with oils here
If i just dont mess up any gcds in dance its fine right

[vale pine]

to have the 2nd secret in blades

[karmic harbor]

Are people playing ds anywhere?

[past snow]

any1 can answer me why we dont use Preme anymore?

[vale pine]

keep in mind secret has delayed clone attacks

[karmic harbor]

Pins

[vivid spindle]

Maybe at vorasius und salahadaar, beloren?

[vale pine]

i tried to put it as short as possible

[tribal blade]

https://youtu.be/mulhhWGkyyY?si=OAYrt--L5Nc6VX45&t=3416 time:56:56 holy shit max talked about the rogue raid buff situation

[keen dome]

Because shadowstrike does big damage with cloud cover and the 150% crit damage gain from Surprising Strikes. And this means the clones from the apex, et al, do a ton of damage. Premed blocks it, so premed less damage.

[tribal blade]

massive

[vale pine]

technically, more strike casts = better too with cloud cover

[keen dome]

Yeah

[plush trout]

But if I sd right after the first one ends, I have like a small delay where I can dance 3rd time in sb

[past snow]

jesus ty paid game

[keen dome]

It feels weird to play which is why I don't like it but it's def stronger without premed.

[fiery fog]

As long as i dont have to send shadowstrikes when im at full cp im fine with it

[dreamy wedge]

@vale pine Is there any tidy info on the dps gain of not running either premed or warning signs?

[fiery fog]

(Besides apex optimisation)

[grizzled hornet]

you still do on supercharged cps during dance

[fiery fog]

Yeah i was talking about striking even beyond that

[velvet jay]

for M+ cleave do I still stack crit, or do I go for mastery there?

[outer orchid]

i thought i saw eleem say it wasn't a bug

[naive steppe]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[grizzled hornet]

cant they make premed give sht stacks?

so we can escape this cursed prison of bs to 7

[keen dome]

They can do a lot of things. But will they

[grizzled hornet]

ofc they wont just asking if it would benefit us more

u dont wanna see the list of changes i have

[dreamy wedge]

I am still trying to understand if it's that important to cut premed. I won't do it for 500 dps.

[vale pine]

1% for using premed, warning sign is similar to pe

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grizzled hornet]

its like 1% or smth

[vale pine]

so there is no big gain from PE/warning sign switch

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[vale pine]

^ i started to do the 2nd opener

because i trade off 0.2-0.3% dps

to not have the cursed opener

[steep raven]

What about Shiv?

[grizzled hornet]

i'd trade my soul for rogue changes

[grizzled hornet]

dont

[steep raven]

SS>Vanish+SS>Shiv+Guidon>CDs+Sectec

[keen dome]

If I can make a suggestion there, fuu - could you make it clear they're two different openers? It looks like a continual thing to me, haha

[steep raven]

Works pretty well

Adds a cheap energy gcd to Guidon and better than backstab

With toxic stiletto*

[river coral]

@vale pine can you tell me why the difference here is so small? i expected from all the talk to be much bigger https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5L54H17uMT5VSgpVaMhRjd

[vale pine]

current wishlist would be:

• fix the shadow blades costs
• make premed add sht stacks instead
• smoke bomb less visually obfuscating

[tidal solstice]

jfc how are mages so fucking bad at using their toolkits

[dreamy wedge]

I think you won't have armor pierce for your first ST if you don't backstabd @steep raven ?

[steep raven]

You do shadowstrike from stealth twice?

You have the buff

[dreamy wedge]

my bad

[tidal solstice]

this would make me very happy.

[grizzled hornet]

thats not a change, thats a bugfix no?

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/liquids-max-talks-rogue-raid-buff-situation/2296187

new forum post drop

hit a like on this if you guys can

would mean a lot

[tidal solstice]

done and fucking done

[tribal blade]

@short radish

[keen dome]

oh no, not +3% haste! Nooo. Delicious crit only

Also I bet you 5 gold if they did implement a haste raid buff for rogue, it wouldn't contribute to our haste breakpoints

[grizzled hornet]

just thinking that they didnt remove the code for the distract cost (30 energy) from the talent makes my blood pressure skyrocket

[tribal blade]

lol that sounds cursed so ofc it would 😉

i'm actually so happy max brought up the rogue raid buff situation

that means a lot

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

the fact i can put a link to him talking about it

[keen dome]

Yeah, it'd be nice if something happens.

[tribal blade]

is huge

[keen dome]

Just give us 3% crit aura

[vale pine]

you have very low haste, might be related to that

[river coral]

i have 726 haste with flask, isnt that enough?

[vale pine]

oh, what did he say?

ill read in 5 minutes or so else

[tribal blade]

he basically said when is blizz gonna give rogue the hunter treatment

like hunter's mark

[steel zinc]

We will get a crit multiplier on critical damage

[tidal solstice]

no i'm tired of this fucking 2nd class citizen shit

Atrophic poison: All enemies within 100 yards take 3.6% more damage from all sources.

[tribal blade]

because atrophic is kinda dogshit not working on certain bosses

like stix

and he kinda tied it in to DK

but i don't care about DK haha

they're meta enough

[sullen shell]

Since Shadow Blades costs 30 energy (due to the bug) and Secret Technique is another 30, should I pool at least 60 energy before popping Blades?

[vale pine]

fair

its good that he changed his mind

[graceful portal]

Hello i have a question : i have the 700 haste cap + guidon 701 mast and 740 crit (no conso) is it not enough mastery ? i know i can sim but not really confortable with sims and just want an approxiamtive opinion if possible

[tribal blade]

i'm really happy atm

[tidal solstice]

i need that stats pic again

[dreamy wedge]

Mastery is just what you can't get, it's not about having enough @graceful portal

[lucid jackal]

yes

[keen dome]

More mastery is gooder. Get haste breakpoint, which you have. Then more crit = more ST, more mastery = more AoE. So get more of those as needed, but you'll naturally get it as you gear. Just blast.

[graceful portal]

Okok thanks guys. I'm doing m+ and raid so having a mix of both is good as much as possible

Thank you guys for answering 🙂

[keen dome]

A lot of the gear we wanna aim for is naturally going to increase both, since we want crit/mast on everything once haste is hit.

[upbeat sorrel]

do we prio shadowstrikes more in aoe situations with cloud cover or is it still same

[graceful portal]

And for flask ? it's the same logic ? just go whatever you need ? if we want to blast packs we go mast and crit for single ?

[keen dome]

Sure

[vale pine]

breakpoints kinda make this not correct

but ye

if you meet these, its less impactfull

[river coral]

do you know the amount of haste the premeditaion thing becomes bad?

cuz i have 726 and thought it was enough

[vale pine]

i don't think its related to haste

the premed bug is just not in simc

[tulip viper]

We not all jumping ship to sin yet then

[vale pine]

i mean

i played sub last night

and i found it comfortable

the 30 energy blades is kinda oof, so hope thats fixed soon

the opener, i found something that works for me, as mentioned earlier

[tulip viper]

Fun is one thing, the optimal choice for mythic prog is another

[fiery fog]

Equivalent trade
We have to use more energy to cast
Devourer gets more energy per cast

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[tulip viper]

Isn't sin looking stronger in 95% and above logs?

[vale pine]

sin got buffed before the patch

people forgot that

sub did not get buffed to the point in whipes the floor with it

means both sin and subtlety are good options

[keen dome]

Ye. I mean, you'll always do better on what you are comfortable playing, too.

Outside of extremely high level play, playing your comfortable spec will win out

[vale pine]

also, the blades bug is a small loss

[fiery fog]

It only really matters in top 100 guilds
Even there im not sure if it really does

[vale pine]

people also need to gear switch and adjust

especially using crit flasks

[alpine wraith]

it really depends on the times top 100 or top 50 not always have players willing to do some things

so although you will see many 0 rogue kills of some bosses others will just play what they have

[vale pine]

premed sims neutral for me

hmm

[upbeat sorrel]

is the number of targets we shadowstrike at still the same w/ the new cloud cover talent spec

[keen dome]

It was like, 0.2% for me iirc

[outer orchid]

i fixed it for you

same font

[dreamy wedge]

How do you sim the bugged premed?

[vale pine]

you don't but dropping premed did sim higher even without the bug implemented

also, can i finally get a dungeon slice profile for outlaw finished

[outer orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[dreamy wedge]

For my low gear premed just sims higher but I assumed it was due to the bug not being present

[vale pine]

-.- this shit just keeps getting dps improvements

[keen dome]

Haha

[fossil forge]

Kinda forced to used haste flask so gg

[hazy lichen]

wdym

[dreamy wedge]

Same end result, having crit on gear or on flask.

[alpine wraith]

maybe it becomes better as more gear arrives if i changed crafts to crit and crit flast

[boreal cargo]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[alpine wraith]

it was around 800 dps for me

but i havent made the plunge yet

[hazy lichen]

how much crit do we want

[alpine wraith]

no specific number

[keen yew]

does this hold also with the new build/the rotten ? don't we want ss to actually give cp for the apex to proc on it?

[hazy lichen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rain stratus]

What’s that?

[golden coral]

!logs

[vale pine]

premed and no premed sim about the same for my personal gear profile

[vale pine]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[vale pine]

the 2nd one

[junior ether]

why it comes to have 8% healing > than full CP talent in sim?

[fossil forge]

Leech+ephe new meta

[hazy breach]

You can remove the bit where it says that it's marginally worse

[steel zinc]

Really?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

From the pins has an explantion

[vale pine]

fair

[steep raven]

Do you not miss 2nd sectec under blades with 2nd opener?

[chilly dagger]

Im in such an identity crisis🤣
Cant tell if I want to reroll to assa or outlaw or just stay sub tipping toes in higher level keys of 17 above 🤪

[vale pine]

i had no problems

[rain stratus]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers ended up only marginal worse, but use cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[dreamy wedge]

"Reroll" Assa is basically the same stats

[chilly dagger]

Reroll as in, decide for a spec and dont respec anymore😄

But it could be outlaw too, which would a bit more of a reroll

[vale pine]

both sin and sub perform well

if you want to, can even play outlaw

so pick your poison

[chilly dagger]

Do both perform well in higher m+ keys? It seems Sub > Sin in Raids? But that has been before the patch, right?

Its also so confusing to me, why outlaw (with waaay lower ilvl weap) sims 15k higher in dungeon slice

[sharp seal]

Yesterday premed simmed +800 for me with guidon + crucible. Then I’ve changed crucible to myth gaze and nopremed became +190

[small mantle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

you see a mix of logs running premed or no premed

[summer mason]

Is Vanish part of the rotation now?

[tribal blade]

that are highly ranked

[vale pine]

interessting, i have no gaze, so maybe thats why

[tribal blade]

i truly believe it comes down to preference

[vale pine]

subtlety should perform better, we still suck on low target pulls tho

(better than before patch)

outlaw got a huge buff

10-13%

so its rly strong right now

[upbeat sorrel]

what are you dropping for premed?

[sharp seal]

Used previous variant with premed and no utility node to the right

[paper siren]

Chat is this a good Dungeon Slice sim?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2WHuPkuLNk7jZCsnDjJhEe

[high grotto]

assuming breakpoint is without oils and buffs

[upbeat sorrel]

can you drop a link to it if you have, i dont have the old talents anymore

[weak flame]

Hello what is the stats balance we want now for mplus

[open depot]

Crit haste mastery

[weak flame]

1000 crit 1000 mastery.

[open depot]

Order might be jingled

[worldly root]

Guess that gaze makes the difference for premed build

[weak flame]

Haste above maste?

[open depot]

Ye

Haste above all until u have the haste u need

[weak flame]

Okay but if you have the break point crit is above master now

[hollow orchid]

My hero Gudion is simming higher than my myth puzzyb in dungeonslice???

[weak flame]

Just because of New trickster ?

[hollow orchid]

Is that just dungeon slice being wierd

[hazy lichen]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers can be used alternatively to trigger cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[open depot]

Oui

[hazy lichen]

which one is better

[timid trellis]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dreamy wedge]

check it on 5 targes patchwork? It does line up much better wtih your CD's/

[fossil forge]

Ss backstab vanish ss goated combo

[hollow orchid]

Ill try it out ty

[earnest crane]

hey guys is there any reason that we dont go like this for premed

[strong shoal]

Is there any big warning saying "don't vanish on pull for the double SS just keep backstabbing"?

[hazy breach]

nope, just vanish

[hazy lichen]

how come sometimes i vanish and go to pressh shadowstrike and it doesnt let me

[earnest crane]

use diffrent keybind in invis mode

[hollow orchid]

How is the opener now without premed?

[worthy escarp]

If I’m around 650 haste do I still fish for 50 haste even if it sims lower ?

[hollow orchid]

Like do i dance before 7cp?

[weak flame]

!open

[wicked jolt]

The following openers can be used alternatively to trigger cooldowns faster:
strike-vanish+blades-strike/guidon-cooldowns
strike/guidon-dance-blades-strike-secret

[wet echo]

are you at 650 with weapon oils or without?

[worthy escarp]

With oils