subtlety

[opal basalt]

p2 feels shit on both

[pure cloud]

I did

[tribal blade]

not particularly

[abstract cosmos]

is assa hard to play never tried it

[opal basalt]

imo very fun rn

[pure cloud]

Feels great to rapid fire finishers lol

[tribal blade]

does help that i have a raid team full of people who do low dmg

[opal basalt]

bro our owl

did the 100 parse too today

i don't even care about voidorbs anymore with him present

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/vinyl-records-record-collection-warped-vinyl-playing-music-record-player-gif-21484870

[opal basalt]

what's wrong scath?

[worthy timber]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[worthy timber]

Anyone having cloud cover just not activating sometimes

[short radish]

[tall dawn]

can we still macro Dance and SecTec together? Opener on Wowhead has them separated

[short radish]

did the premed bug get added to simc or something?

[lilac stag]

Nearly Every question in here today could find the answer about 10-15 messages back on repeat.

[opal basalt]

just patch day things

[dusky yacht]

And then they argue with the answer consistently

[lilac stag]

Hasn’t been that bad in here in a long time

[valid jewel]

Currently progging Mythic Crown of the Cosmos as Sub Rogue. any reason to swap to Outlaw for this fight or future raids?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/started-blasting-gun-eyeglasses-so-anyway-i-started-blasting-gif-16955226

[short radish]

i want to go back to sub being a spec nobody plays

[lilac stag]

We at least all didn’t get shocked by bugs and just dealt with them.

[warm marlin]

might be good to swap to it for lura only

sub better on cosmos and beloren

[lilac stag]

OH MY GOD BACKSTAB ATE MY OPENER.

[short radish]

wow this is such a ground breaking bug why hasn't blizzard fixed it yet?

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/86hgzB56bXJNaEdMTAwTzF

i'm catching up

i am free from prison

time to calibrate the addon

[lilac stag]

Just activate vantus and you’ll catch up

[short radish]

(i'm also not free from prison because birb puzzlebox)

[valid jewel]

Thanks for the answer

[gilded cosmos]

how many voidforge tokens to upgrade, we can have in total?

[short radish]

2+1

[gilded cosmos]

F

[lilac stag]

Did you find the answer?

[gilded cosmos]

not for raids/ m+, for weapons and trinkets*

[short radish]

oh wait

the upgrade tokens

currently 0

[gilded cosmos]

yiees

but when we have the tokens , how many are in total?

[lilac stag]

Check back in a month

[gilded cosmos]

bc i have the belo'ren weapon in hc and the vorasius one in myth, but i see i can upgrade the beloren first to 285 and later to 298

[brisk onyx]

Claude will do it, just wait

[stuck arrow]

But can I still use premed? Will my game uninstall if I talent it?

[lilac stag]

It’s only 1 upgrade

[gilded cosmos]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[lilac stag]

+10 ilvl total

[worthy timber]

lol

[lilac stag]

Asking since I’ll answer if you didn’t. Not sure the lol

[vast dust]

I actually enjoy scrolling back and reading all the tips, answers and back and forth discussion. I don’t understand people who come in and ask a question that was answered 10 mins ago and then 10 mins before that and also pinned.

And you seem to be the one answering the most. Props to you.

[copper frigate]

Hello , now what is the best talents for MM+ ? Please

[sharp ravine]

Cloud Cover Enjoyer

[tame notch]

Legit Cloud Cover is the blessing we deserved after being bottom of the dmg stats

[kindred socket]

Sorry if this has been asked and it feels like a silly question, Does it matter which Weapon enchant is in off hand and which is in main hand?

[neon fractal]

idk im still under a 50 parse 🙂

[tame notch]

I was worried that it would be hard to play around it but they made it good

[earnest crane]

rogues are Q and decline simulator

[soft summit]

Reddit was saying you can run your dungeon and at the end, mouse over the bonus roll and it’ll give you a list of all possible items. If you see the item you already got, don’t roll. If it’s not there, you should be safe to roll

[honest tinsel]

after 12.0.5 Anyone who knows rickster Stat Priority?

[tame notch]

Get a physical comp team bro and u good

[tame notch]

U want crit more than mastery

[stuck arrow]

Tell them we got smoke bomb back

[earnest crane]

they were angry at me in one key why they cant see anything

and they wanted me to dont used it

[short radish]

we need to gaslamp the community into saying its a defensive

we have a single opportunity here

that comes once in a life time

nobody knows about what rogue shit does

not even rogues

[tame notch]

Well it actually is "defensive"

[short radish]

it 100% is

nothing we are saying is wrong

[tame notch]

Bro that 100% right

I am pissed cuz needed to replace my neck and myth ring to get stats right after this tuning

[stuck arrow]

It is a DR. We don't have to tell them it isn't one for them

[earnest crane]

this lock was angry about smoke and told me i m playing wrong build

[short radish]

based dominance asserter

[tame notch]

My guildmates on evo and priest told me that ill be trolled on raid and they will just move my ass from the smoke cuz it's deserved for playing rogue

lel

[earnest crane]

everyone thinks its the smoke for pvp 😄

[frigid canopy]

cant wait to go raid, and me and the other rogue cover all the mechanics in cloud juice for them

[lilac stag]

I think most are trying to figure out wtf is going on, when a little paying attention the week before could have given just a small bit of a heads up. Instead it’s wide spread panic and zero checking of the standard resources: guides, pins & faq

[short radish]

(un)fortuantely we can only see our smoke bomb in raid

apparently blizzard decided that we are not allowed to make ground slop

[soft summit]

This happened twice to me yesterday. If blizzard doesn’t fix it soon groups will just stopping taking rogues

[short radish]

thats reserved for DKs

[frigid canopy]

wtf?? how willl they see my defensive smoek bomb?

[short radish]

bro i popped it on first boss

[earnest crane]

😄 are they taking rogues ? 😄

[short radish]

and then the boss moved

[honest tinsel]

how much haste do i need?

[short radish]

and i was like.....

fuck

[tame notch]

650-700 ideally 680~

[tame notch]

Relatable

[soft summit]

Why bring you? You offer nothing but medicore dps and now a smoke bomb that hides game mechanics and kills your group mates

[abstract cosmos]

quick question for evis do i have to spend it on full combo points ?

[rugged ravine]

did something change with the m+ build? my shadowstrike from stealth doesnt seem to be giving me full combo points

[soft summit]

True. But in 10s they currently still do at least until smoke bomb is well known. Then that’s it. I’ll have to advertise no cloud cover talent

[short radish]

[abstract cosmos]

we dont play premid anymore

[strong shoal]

Question: Reaching 18ish% haste is prio in both ST and M+ right?

[short radish]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[short radish]

never thought i could do this to a green name

that felt powerful

[abstract cosmos]

@short radish do u spend all combo points every time for evis or less when ur out of tech

[strong shoal]

You're welcome :3

[short radish]

❤️

[tame notch]

There are so many options to play with the rings, anyone plays the nexus set?

[short radish]

but uhhh

you dont want haste %

[lilac stag]

700 haste with guidin. Not a percent

[short radish]

you want haste #

[strong shoal]

i'm learning sub, did a dungeon

[short radish]

700 guidon, 800 pbox

[soft summit]

lol So true

[wintry heart]

Kiss me

[short radish]

pretty sure its maxcp -1

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[strong shoal]

i COULD get more haste if i socked/recraft stuff

[short radish]

you should

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700) > Critical Strike = Mastery > Versatility`

[strong shoal]

aight here i go

[undone mesa]

hey all!! quick question, we still are lining the second dance in SB to supercharge the sectec?

[abstract cosmos]

@short radish are u playing premed ?

[short radish]

you can also get a puzzlebox by doing a m0 leather agi stack in AA

and it will guarantee drop last boss

[short radish]

in heroic probably

[abstract cosmos]

how come thought it sucked

[vocal quiver]

Why did we drop Premed for Ephemeral Bond?

[short radish]

8 seconds of downtime is shit

and means i might not get 2nd use

[abstract cosmos]

thats what im saying

[tame notch]

The best day in the season, being unlucky entire time paid off

[abstract cosmos]

@short radish what did u swap out to get premed

i wanna sim

[short radish]

teh healing talent

kinda just

run whatever you want though

dont run premed

do run premed

[abstract cosmos]

wha]#

[short radish]

plenty of high level rogues are running premed

plenty of high level rogues are also not running premed

[strong shoal]

premed just feels good honestly

[short radish]

it does

and sometimes you go off feels > sims

[strong shoal]

As a heroic andy, i know!

[abstract cosmos]

whats the healing talent called again

[tame notch]

But i feel without it we get better results

Even tho gameplay feeling is shit

[tame notch]

From what i was checking today most of them don't but I might be wrong since i checked couple of them

[short radish]

enough people do

that its worth

consider the following

with premed

you can strike -> opener

which means youre blasting at like 2 seconds

without premed youre strike -> backstab soup

and then blasting at 9-10 seconds

if vorasius dies at 3:12

[tame notch]

Yeah ur much more luck reliant

[short radish]

which it might

[meager coyote]

Okay but why don't people do ss-vanish-ss

[tame notch]

is u get stacked combo points or no

[sharp ravine]

They do

[short radish]

youve now lost your 3rd burst go

[tame notch]

but today I had BIG lucky pull on myth king

[short radish]

its not luck reliant

premed is just get cp

no premed is gotta backstab

[kindred socket]

my sim is only recommending 627 haste, that doesn't feel right, what am i doing wrong?

[tame notch]

Yeah but if u get stacked cp from aa ull need sometimes to just hit 2 of the backstabs

[rough dock]

for smoke cover, do I have to get out after 10 seconds to refresh?

[drifting igloo]

Has anyone tried casting Slice'n'Dice (either manually or via Evis) during that slow build to 7 CP before CDs on single target?

[tame notch]

It ends after 10s so its like automatic

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq message

[warm marlin]

i have 37% crit baseline bruh

wdym 8%

[random mason]

Youre not good enough to play the spec sorry buddy

[kindred socket]

damn what can you do

[strong shoal]

@short radish help a greenie again. Did sim recrafting stuff for crit haste on a few pieces + some other items choice, but it just doenst change anything, stuck at 659 haste with consumables (flask + oils); good enough?

[short radish]

mhmm

[sharp ravine]

Press key on CD and you are fine

[short radish]

kinda no but also kinda yes

[strong shoal]

wait it didnt even change flask for haste

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/inXanNqatJYRYrBWrCDUqU

[short radish]

sims are a bit wack

[honest tinsel]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700) > Critical Strike = Mastery > Versatility`

[abstract cosmos]

wait i just simmed with and without premed and apprently i do way more dmg with premed

am i tripping

[frigid canopy]

i think its not showing on sims

or some bug as usual

[ashen warren]

Maybe the bug is not in the sims

[abstract cosmos]

cant lie imma just run premed

fack it

[frigid canopy]

send it mate

[strong shoal]

fuck it we go like this, problem solved

[ashen warren]

yeah the Quality of Life > 1% cursed dps

[abstract cosmos]

i mean i cba with playing with no max cds on opener

makes me sad

🙁

[frigid canopy]

jsut do what i do, SS, vanish, ss, meld, ss and your max

[strong shoal]

meld?

in raid?

[frigid canopy]

yep

[strong shoal]

are you sure

[sharp ravine]

Just chill and backstab

Not that hard to do

[brisk onyx]

PE+no premed better when u have high crit

[frigid canopy]

it works with macro

[strong shoal]

you can't stealth in a boss fight

from meld

[frigid canopy]

xD

[brisk onyx]

So if you are a high mastery gear ,it simc soso

[frigid canopy]

i do it every pull, so you can

[short radish]

ye this works

even if you need flask to get your haste cap

its worth

[random mason]

No premed is not as bad as boss moving out of your cloud tbh

I did a few myth saladbar pulls today, so annoying

[strong shoal]

i really need info on this, because for you to shadowstrike you'd need to meld-stealth-shadowstrike, right?

and again, unless something changed, you can't meld-stealth in a boss fight

[ashen warren]

same and it’s genuinely the worst fight

[queen egret]

if i have puzzle box and guidon but no gaze which one should i be using

[random mason]

I think the fight is fun, Its a bit sad how much tank responsibility is in it again

[queen egret]

cant use both on use

[frigid canopy]

#showtooltip Shadowmeld
/cast shadowmeld
/cast shadowstrike

[random mason]

Like no input on orbs apart from where the tanks drag the boss

[frigid canopy]

just stand still, and use this my guy

[random mason]

No CC no slow nothing

[kindred socket]

what we think about 682 haste

[queen egret]

can someone help. i have puzzel box and guidon, but no gaze (have plume) which one is better to use

since you cant really use two on use trinkets

[ashen warren]

yup I like it but the amount of gcd not in range I’m missing bc the tank do a tiny strafe zzzz

[abstract cosmos]

is 601 haste low for sub ?

[random mason]

Just stand right in the boss full time

I learned that from m+

[ashen warren]

I’ll try to use my mouse to move while dpsing

[queen egret]

i guess ill just use puzzle box over guidon for now

[abstract cosmos]

have u simmed ?

[queen egret]

yeah but when im actually using them it feels off

not sure how the double sectec works, even with guidon its 16 second CD

[random mason]

Are your binds that weird that you cant spam a button and press a movement key at the same time?

[ashen warren]

if you are very very fast and have guidon ig

[abstract cosmos]

@ashen warren dont have guidon and plus i tried to sim everything but apprently the gear i have is better

maybe swap gems around

idk

unless im simming wrong

[drifting igloo]

Bump - does this cause any adverse things to happen if I SS->evis->backstab until 7

[ashen warren]

My binds are aweful but too lazy to change them, but I think it’s more of a me not paying attention the boss is moving

[warm marlin]

LMFAO

[ashen warren]

Sim is a robot so it will tell you 600 haste is fine, but bc u are human you need more

[warm marlin]

beloren dies in our literal first second egg

[analog ruin]

So youre just a shit player, got it

[abstract cosmos]

so what should i do

[ashen warren]

get to 700

[strong shoal]

you know what, stupid game

logged my nelf to test it, and yeah it works, BUT IT SHOULDN'T

[sweet moss]

use haste flask problem solved

😜

[toxic anvil]

This is the overall at the end?

[strong shoal]

yeah

PoS12

[toxic anvil]

cries in suck What's your ilvl currently?

[strong shoal]

275

started playing sub today after like 5 years

[toxic anvil]

Good trinks as well?

[strong shoal]

so i dont know what you'll ask me

[toxic anvil]

Hahah okay. I don't feel AS bad now. Ty 🤪

I'm at 263 grinding my way up and can't break past 80k in the end, but pug pulls could also be affecting it just gotta keep pushing

[random mason]

I hope you're not holding dances

Cause thats like the biggest thing in low-ish keys

[vivid shoal]

i have a guildie who insists that the old gear compare is more accurate than using top gear. is he insane or is there any truth to that?

[toxic anvil]

The only time I hold is if there's one mob left at like 5% and theres a big pull coming up where I can get the full value of a double dance window

[tribal blade]

all the TCs in here recommend top gear over gear compare

and i trust them

[lucid jackal]

gear compare is just a worse version of top gear lol

They do the same thing in the end

[tribal blade]

it's far more annoying setting up gear compare

[spice crag]

how does sub compare to sin for 18+ keys this patch? sin still better?

[tribal blade]

i suspect sin still better

[honest tinsel]

my current haste 602, but raidbot says more mastery than cirt or haste...

[spice crag]

raidbot doesn't calculate human response time

[queen egret]

with or without guidon

[tame notch]

With

[honest tinsel]

with guidon

[abstract cosmos]

urs says the same as mine haah

[queen egret]

haste flask it is then

[tame notch]

Don't trust sims that much with haste

[abstract cosmos]

think i might just gem swap since im at 603

[tame notch]

Also my sims today wanted me to go 980/700/550

[grand hemlock]

Use Sims for best crests usage

[tame notch]

in st with our smoke bomb

[grand hemlock]

Eyeball the rest

[abstract cosmos]

@grand hemlock wdym like eyball gear or

[glass rock]

we not playing the first dance in m+?

[tame notch]

Well sims are reliable still

But u need to remember

That above all they say u need ~700 haste

with guideon ofc

[abstract cosmos]

i dont have guidon yet 🙁

[tame notch]

And after u meet this u check what sims want more crit/mastery and u fill these up but haste is prio

[abstract cosmos]

would gem swapping help ?

[tame notch]

yup

[grand hemlock]

It might

[abstract cosmos]

im at 603

[tame notch]

Ive done a looooot of gem swapping

[abstract cosmos]

so surely

right

?

[tame notch]

Just use haste flask also

Im runnin it cuz couldnt get 700 haste from eq

[grand hemlock]

Always adjust your flask to meet stat deficits

[abstract cosmos]

i know this sounds silly but what if raidbots says otherwise

[pure cloud]

Yeah haste flask til you get there worked for me

[tame notch]

U ignore

[grand hemlock]

I use archon as well to compare what others are running

[abstract cosmos]

ok let me test gem swap

and flask

[grand hemlock]

Plenty of resources to pinpoint where you need to be

[honest tinsel]

anyone who knows use ephemeral bond? not premeditation?

[tame notch]

It doesn't say much cuz our class is playball of gearing

[honest tinsel]

is it better?

[pure cloud]

On top of being a robot sim assumes zero latency right?

[tame notch]

U can play like 4 or 6 different rings and 3 different necks and then u need to adjust flask/gems to meet the requirements

[pure cloud]

So even if you literally botted it

[tame notch]

Don't look what others wear

[serene notch]

was there a stealth patch? I am getting the audio que back when i stealth, did they fix anything else?

[pure cloud]

Shadow blades casting distract maybe?!?!

Someone check now! I’m not at pc

[serene notch]

i hope that was fixed?

[abstract cosmos]

i dont hear distract

when i press

[earnest crane]

guys why my smoke some times dont come up

its only shadowblde buff

[pure cloud]

Need 30 energy

[serene notch]

see pins

[earnest crane]

oh fuck me

[queen egret]

its a bug. for some reason shadowblades is casting distract i heard

hence the 30 energy

[stiff cosmos]

am i the only one having 289 puzzle box simming more than 289 guidon in ST ?

[lucid jackal]

I feel like people genuinely dont understands how stats work in this game

How do we fix this as a community

I mean so before the patch

It was like crit = mastery

Now its crit => mastery

Its like, crit gained a bit of value

U dont have to regear or like, do anything

[queen egret]

oh no i have to switch my plume from mastery to crit

[smoky salmon]

people still think "bis lists" are an actual thing

we are doomed i fear

[pure cloud]

It made the skyreach trink I’m never replacing with alnseer slightly better, I’ll take it

[placid lynx]

buds my sims says im perfectly fine with 569 haste than 730 like wtf

[pure cloud]

Yeah I was in a group where a guy was saying check the bis list, and I didn’t know how to address it without coming off condescending

So I just came off condescending

[smoky salmon]

[tame notch]

bit in m+ a lot on raids

[wheat wigeon]

do you have premed?

[wicked bear]

!prem

[abstract cosmos]

we dont play premid

but im playing it cos im cool

[pure cloud]

I too prefer it

[abstract cosmos]

i legit

simmed

and it simmed better

idk

[honest tinsel]

!prem

[brisk onyx]

premed is ok, if you focus qol

[pine oyster]

This patch has made me realise how many just blindly follow talent builds without reading what things do and how they interact

[abstract cosmos]

i go by what i feel is smooth and clean

[swift tinsel]

I don’t even sim anymore I’m purely gearing by the vibrations of the universe

[grave cove]

Isn't premed bugged atm? It's not giving CP when the apex talent is active

[pure cloud]

Even if the worst assessments I’ve seen are true and you lose 4k single target (in a sim) I don’t think that’s the reason a group fails any single encounter

[abstract cosmos]

i mean i tested it

and its giving me cp

points

[lucid jackal]

It's not bugged

[pine oyster]

A guide helps people sure; but don’t you wanna know what you’re doing? Not just blindly following?

[lucid jackal]

Its just a negative interaction

[pure cloud]

You lose an AA clone

[swift tinsel]

Make premed give 7 sht stacks

[abstract cosmos]

u learn from guides then play on the class and get used to it guides just help u

[short radish]

best we can do is fix another uhdk bug

[swift tinsel]

Damn bro save some cheffin’ for the rest of us

[frank wolf]

ive read enough - buff devourer dh.

[swift tinsel]

Not saying it was fixed bc of the wowhead article but seeing it fixed less than an hour after it was posted was very funny

[elfin hound]

only fix those who do more dmg, not the other way!

[pure cloud]

We can do a half rework that effectively buffs the top performing dps spec in m+ rn aside from aug

[pine oyster]

I get that, but on a new class, I’ll copy a build from wowhead and then read the talents so I know how they interact.. but if people don’t do that, more power to them, my statement still stands this patch has made me realise how many people just copy paste builds without understanding them

[swift tinsel]

Taez must have some insane pull with Blizz dev time

[jade oasis]

im simming premed

i cant stand thgus

[swift tinsel]

Also my raid wants me to go Aug 😂

[short radish]

bro wait till you realise that people dont even download a wowhead guide

or icy veins

[pure cloud]

It probably wouldn’t feel as bad if we weren’t coming off from machine gunning finishers every shadow dance lol

[steep beacon]

haha same i was sad

[swift tinsel]

And just say fuck rogue

I mean I might do it lol

[short radish]

there are people who still use the default guild blizzard gives them

[elfin hound]

playing premed - increase mental health - mental health increase dps

[steep beacon]

thats hilarious

[pine oyster]

Oh I know but those people probably aren’t even in this discord complaining about interactions

[short radish]

these people raid heroic

[teal monolith]

latest topgear sim is telling me to run 550 haste with guiidon for ST am i missing something here

[lean arch]

is not having premed bad if its lust on pull tho?

[pine oyster]

Sims don’t take into account human reaction

[lean arch]

like surely thats a lot of downtime

[frank wolf]

I just did a key where i had to shadow dance into shadow strike twice to get to 7 cp, not to proc apex

im telling you its a reroll into full time slay the spire 2 angle

[teal monolith]

do i just go 700 haste and ignore the sim?

[hollow raptor]

[swift tinsel]

Our bm hunter still hasn’t crafted a myth wep yet bc they’re waiting for one in vault

Bc wowhead guide said not to apparently

[short radish]

gotta play for the bis gear in 3 months

[pine oyster]

If you have guidon, that’s what’s recommended, my sims tell me to have less than 700 too but I ignore them because I know in practice 700 gives me 2 sectec in shadowblades

[tribal blade]

i swear to god hunters

[pure cloud]

Yeah like I said I’m just running premed, rwf is over I don’t need every tiny bit of sim dps I can claw at. Feels better, I’m timing my 13s

[swift tinsel]

They also omega complained about getting myth Omission in vault bc it wasn’t in their BiS list even though it has their ideal stats

And they got the 2set from it

[short radish]

wow i just swapped to that other ret paladin build and im doing so much more damage

some ret paladin who was doing tank damage on heroic chimmy

[hollow raptor]

its beautiful

[swift tinsel]

“I can faceroll even higher damage!”

Being in a low WR guild leads to some very funny conversations

I should ss them more often

[pine oyster]

Our myth raid is only up to nexus king, but our two sub rogues constantly top damage and our raid believes rogues are broken, I laugh cry every time

[swift tinsel]

That same hunter thought the tokens from vault let you reroll your whole vault

Instead of just being another bonus roll

Bc I said you can take a token to basically reroll a slot

By doing a +10

[tribal blade]

our BM turned MM turned surv hunter went surv on dragons yesterday with a fresh new fist weapon

[low marten]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/frwMEaxrD8W7rA1azSyyBP

Do follow that even tho I drop below the cap for haste in doing so ?

[tribal blade]

and then realized on pull surv can't use fist weapons in main hand

and had sold his old surv weapon

[jade oasis]

oh so switching to pre med is - 1500 for me

wtf

[swift tinsel]

That is so on brand for hunter im legitimately chortling

[jade oasis]

😕

[swift tinsel]

Like deep belly laughing

[low marten]

Feel like the sims are cooked rn

[tribal blade]

and our hunters are in for every boss

during prog

while gray parsing every fight

[smoky salmon]

dont say the h-word in here please

[tribal blade]

it's legitimately making me depressed

[teal monolith]

im too scared to bonus roll chim cause i know i'll get oozing trinket

[smoky salmon]

this is a family friendly channel

[swift tinsel]

I don’t even look at parse numbers anymore

[tribal blade]

i do

because even though parsing is a meme

[tall bloom]

Thts happened to me maybe next week i get belt

[tribal blade]

if you gray parse every single fight

[swift tinsel]

I pretty much just looked at egg damage with new cloud cover last night before Lura sent us all to the shadow realm bc it was so bugged

[tribal blade]

or get the occasional green as a good parse

something is very wrong

[teal monolith]

qquestion is will it be taken out of your bonus roll pool

[tall bloom]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

After getting a 95 on paladins as one of the bottom dps I just stopped lol

But yeah grey parsing consistently is a problem

[west tide]

guys im rank 7 sub

[somber sun]

Something worse is coming

[tribal blade]

well it means relative to everyone else you're playing the spec well

[west tide]

i will never touch sub again unfortunately

[swift tinsel]

Because you should be at least blue if you’re awake/alive

[west tide]

goodbye

[elfin hound]

almost got slayed from guardian druid with 97 parse xdd

[somber sun]

Yo, for sure they are gonna fix that sb bug by next week.. Right ?

[swift tinsel]

TBD

[pine oyster]

Small indie company

[tribal blade]

given how much stuff is bugged now

[tall bloom]

Maybe in the last titan

[tribal blade]

and the sub bug is not game breaking

[swift tinsel]

Bug fixes are assigned randomly using a Random Number Generator

[teal monolith]

i honestly think the sb bug is far down their list rn

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't be surprised if we have to live wit hit for a while

[swift tinsel]

PR’s are submitted via carrier pigeon

[tribal blade]

the blades bug is relatively low impact

[short radish]

bro we didn't even get a mention on the wowhead post

its so jover

[tribal blade]

lol of course not

[swift tinsel]

I’m betting it doesn’t get looked at until at least 12.1 or 12.1.5

[elfin hound]

like they fix the "go in stealth and do x more dmg" talent 2 years later

[tribal blade]

i think people don't even know sub exists as a spec anymore

[somber sun]

Let's bet, a delve bug or a class that is already struggling this expansion and have to tank a bug making its opener even weaker

[tribal blade]

that's a strong possibility

[swift tinsel]

It’s inconvenient but doesn’t break anything or lead to, in their eyes, degenerate behavior to overcome

So very low prio

Very very very low

Also I think they’re afraid to mention anything about the state of the patch bc of how negatively it’s been received

[tribal blade]

you can play around it 100% of the time

if you

you're aware

[swift tinsel]

It’s really only an issue on opener imo

[tribal blade]

unlike some of our older bugs

like RS bug

[swift tinsel]

Bc its really really easy to pool into for later blades

Ugh RS bug you bitch

Rest in piss

[tribal blade]

i play premed

so the bug doesn't even exist for me on pull

strike>guidon>wait 1 sec>guaranteed have 60 energy

[swift tinsel]

Ah yeah I’m gonna toy with both and see how I like the vanish strike opener

[somber sun]

[swift tinsel]

Was vanish striking between blades last night and pull felt sluggish

[tribal blade]

i'm not sold on no premed

[swift tinsel]

Bc extra builders chomping through energy made the blades bug very apparent

[tribal blade]

but i know for sure i won't be able to high roll dps like people playing no premed will be able to

[swift tinsel]

Idk I think you need at least 35-40% crit for it to feel worth

Bc you really really need those strikes to crit

Otherwise you’re not getting the benefit

[tribal blade]

yeah i have ~33%

with flask on

[swift tinsel]

Ye I think I’m about the same, 31-33% somewhere in there

And the variance was very noticeable in blades

[tribal blade]

but finishers hit very hard on sub too

[swift tinsel]

Some pulls on beloren strike was almost tied for evisc damage

Others evisc was 20-30% ahead

For egg burn

[tribal blade]

i think on bird no premed PE build is prob better

very likely better

[swift tinsel]

Ye we didn’t get too many pulls for me to experiment plus it was just hc

[somber sun]

Crown felt good too ngl

[tribal blade]

i could see crown too yeah

[somber sun]

Its just the bosses with stuff happening around that is making stuff annoying

[short radish]

especially if youre doing soaks at the start of the pull

youre kinda afk anyway

[tribal blade]

true yeah

[short radish]

i was running no premed on birb

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I was half-assing dmg pre-egg and just kinda cleaving to birds and stashing SC CP

[short radish]

and it was kinda chill

[tribal blade]

bird you have time to prep stuff

and only egg dmg matters

[swift tinsel]

I feel like any time you’re not blasting blades on pull no premed is the play

[tribal blade]

so the no premed build works

[swift tinsel]

It was jarring though after playing premed for so many seasons in a row

[tribal blade]

crown you're sitting on blades for 10 secs on pull

so that works

[swift tinsel]

Ye

[somber sun]

No premed on lura was decent too ngl

Yeah not that bad ig

[swift tinsel]

On Lura last light I was doing memory and just sent after that bc I had to do the addon

[pine oyster]

They fixed the no sound going into stealth bug

[swift tinsel]

Which was not ideal

Oh wow

Huge

[pine oyster]

No cloud bug fix yet hahaha

[tribal blade]

i'm not sure about mythic lura

[swift tinsel]

Really hitting the big ones first

[tribal blade]

but seemed like if i delayed cds on pull on heroic

i would desync stuff

[swift tinsel]

I’m 99% sure mythic Lura would obliterate my guild

[short radish]

i havent done mythic lura but yeah delayed cds on heroic even 1 gcd off

everything out of wack

[somber sun]

You know at this point, I'm starting to see the bug fix as a " buff "

Already miss that 30 energy burst

[tribal blade]

yeah you won't have dance for when the adds come out

if you delay blades

[pine oyster]

Saw rogue then got excited then instantly shot down

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it def desynchs but was hard to tell bc boss spell queue was perma-broken

[tribal blade]

unless you lose a dance cast

[abstract cosmos]

i finally got to 700 but isnt my mastery low now ?

[short radish]

it's fine

[swift tinsel]

Like we had some pulls she did no crystals, others she skipped kicks phase

[somber sun]

Holy crit

Could use a flask

[lean arch]

Is there anything sub is better at than OL atm?

[swift tinsel]

It was impossible to feel like we were progressing bc every pull the ability sequence was different

[abstract cosmos]

@short radish thats without flask

[somber sun]

Or dump a bit into mastery

[tribal blade]

burst

[swift tinsel]

Once we got past first kick phase it was a literal jumble of what ability came next

[short radish]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/449080055893590017/1280746470815043646/456.gif

[swift tinsel]

You expect beams, you get another memory game, you expect kicks, you get crystals

It was so, so, so bad

[somber sun]

Part 2 is so rng too

[pseudo verge]

Holy hell are you like 285ilvl?

[warm marlin]

i got 37% and some burns i just had like 8% crit on strike

love variance

[spice matrix]

1 down

[swift tinsel]

We got the triple secret aura the couple times we hit intermission

[warm marlin]

lura weakaura prog

[spice matrix]

ok someone got it before me

im 🐢

[swift tinsel]

When I first was testing CC I thought it was broken bc I went two full dances in blades without critting

[pseudo verge]

I don’t think i understand why we take healing increase instead of premed is there a bug or do we want to backstab and Shadowstrike more?

[somber sun]

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-gta-sa-cj-gta-again-gif-20425950

[swift tinsel]

Our RL went nonverbal last night so I was trying to troubleshoot one of the memory addons mid pull each pull lol

[warm marlin]

im not sure we're even going to pull with an hour left in raid night

[swift tinsel]

It was just a really bad night to raid lol

[warm marlin]

setting up termination kicks and memory game and etc etc

[swift tinsel]

The bugs and DCs were so bad we lost a fuckton of time just to that

Yeah I don’t blame you guys for not

Easily the most frustrating raid night due to factors beyond our control

[abstract cosmos]

no im 277

i just hit 108k single dps too

without gaze and guidon

[swift tinsel]

Zero response from John Blizz in the wake of everything kind of a shitter move

But hey that’s showbiz

[abstract cosmos]

how did u get alot of mastery

ye but also ur running

less crit

aswell

like 12% less

then me so

[short radish]

i'd assume it's because he's running gear that has more mastery and less crit

which is why he has more mastery and less crit

[abstract cosmos]

ye

[warm marlin]

i didnt mean we didnt want to

we are progging uis

[abstract cosmos]

i like crit

alot

[short radish]

the true midnight end game

[swift tinsel]

Ye was acknowledging that that fight especially benefits a lot from taking the time to get that non-pulling stuff sorted out

Bc of how immensely helpful it is to have sorted

[warm marlin]

we did not do aotc either

gonna get both achieves at the same time holy

[swift tinsel]

Lmao just ripped right into mythic I respect the shit out of that

[short radish]

that doesn't work

the aotc achieve is tied specifically to aotc

unless they changed how it works

don't ask why i know that

[craggy quail]

50%~60% is good?

[warm marlin]

damn

[wispy star]

Maybe someone already explained it, but how comes, that crit == Mastery now?

[craggy quail]

i really couldn't enjoy opening it without premeditation, i think I'll forgo the bonuses

[short radish]

crit damage now do more crit damage with CC

therefore crit is gooder

crit damage stonks up, master stonks still same

[pseudo verge]

Also isnt it much higher dps increase to do the senanigenz with ancient arts and SuperCP because you shadowstrike more?

[short radish]

bless you?

[pseudo verge]

Thank you i just sneezed

This thing

[wispy star]

Does raidbot already cover this? Because when i sim, it still recommends me burrification band with omission of light. Maybe my haste too low. But idk. Sim still sims the same gear as pre patch

[warm marlin]

with high crit it starts approaching equal to do it for all finishers and not just supercharge

but not a gain

maybe next season

[steady dune]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[steady dune]

hell yeah, sitting at exactly 703. Trying to get rid of that last 3

[chilly kite]

hell yea they fixed our stealth sound not going off, but no mention of shadow blades...

[agile kernel]

i can tell you why

[chilly kite]

becuase 2nd class citizen?

[lucid jackal]

Probably because its an easier bug to fix

If I had to guess

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/well-waiting-were-waiting-gif-5848728

[agile kernel]

I assume it is because other classes were complaining about it in pvp

[lucid jackal]

What

[quick sable]

Yo is sub nuts right now? Percentage wise how much dps increase?

[swift tinsel]

now I'm losing my ability to strafe in instances

I'm about to crash out so hard at this game I stg

[hazy lichen]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[molten citrus]

What

[warm marlin]

they were very upset that the rogue stealth didnt play a noise..

[lucid jackal]

IOts some addon doing it

was happening to my GM thismorning

[red flame]

soooo many addons are broken rn

even trp3 was causing nonstop lua errors which is insane

[swift tinsel]

weird bc I'm getting no lua/bugsack reports

[abstract cosmos]

guidon is goated

[swift tinsel]

its the fucking mirrors in the delve

I have all addons disabled a

and that's what triggers it

al;dskjf;lakjdsf

[lucid jackal]

Oh yeah

[swift tinsel]

I'm just tryna vibe out doing low stress prevoker delves

and this game is trying to tilt me off the planet

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[swift tinsel]

delves were my safe haven from the raid and m+ shit

and they took that from me

stole that from me

killed that from me

[red flame]

we can never have anything nice fr

[paper spear]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[sacred jewel]

i mean we got priorities

poor holy paladins 😔

[red flame]

ah yes, healer dps

[elfin magnet]

They fixed the stealth sound bug

Why aren’t you happy?

[jade oasis]

bro i really hope one day we can mog warglaives

[short radish]

bro hpallies are down bad this patch as well

[jade oasis]

feels bad i dont play my dh

[short radish]

they were just as bad as we were

[pure cloud]

Blades still cost 30 energy?

[brisk onyx]

Ye very happy, mom they still love me🤡

[sacred jewel]

i swear i hate this cloud cover visual, cant see sht in m+

nor can my teammates

went to pit, green puddles + green smoke

gg

[pure cloud]

Stand in the cloud you’ll take less damage

[molten citrus]

I fucking wish man

[brisk onyx]

FART RUNE

[pure cloud]

Sorry /y“Stand in this cloud you’ll take less damage”

[sacred jewel]

i told my tank to stay inside the cloud since it's new and they might not know, he ended up dying to aoe

[short radish]

remember to tell them it's a DR

[sacred jewel]

full immunity

drop a smoke bomb on top of it

[molten citrus]

“/y DARKNESS DOWN”

[pure cloud]

You take less damage when I kill things faster. No lies were said

[jade oasis]

bro i saw a screenshot of my rogue from initial tbc classic

and i dropped a tear

[molten citrus]

Azzinoth and Lament are so insane

This raids glaives might even be better imo

[lucid jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/stink-green-aura-gas-fart-walk-gif-1314043816381021953

[jade oasis]

yeah theyre sick

but i jsut like azzinoth

[pure cloud]

They really could give the fart like a dr that rounds our poison up to 10% and we’d have something to bring to the group besides the selfish ability to ignore some mechanics

[jade oasis]

so much

[pure cloud]

But actually that would be bad, ignore me

Just give smoke bomb back for real put it on 4m cd

Hell have truesighters ignore it and give it some dr

[swift tinsel]

this reminds me of that meme from like 2008

[grave cove]

New opener feels kaka having to backstab 3 times 🙁

[swift tinsel]

Have you really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like but make it a wow tooltip

[grave cove]

After shadowstrike

[lyric ibex]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[plush roost]

how does one fix deepepning bug

relog?

[wary locust]

is sub worse rogue spec now

[frail kindle]

first p3 pull lura lfg

[brisk onyx]

wut?

[plush roost]

im getting 0 extension on deepening

5 sec dance pog

[brisk onyx]

I suddenly felt a sense of relief

[plush roost]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[charred horizon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

wat.

[grave cove]

Is that actually a bug? I haven't heard anything about it but this new build feels a lil off

[steel zinc]

It feels odd since you don't play premed

That lowers apm and the flow of the spec

[grave cove]

Yeah I got used to premed

[steel zinc]

It has more to do that premed bugs our apex

But well

[grave cove]

I wanna go back to outlaw lol I miss it

[steel zinc]

Considering the QA of this patch it's pretty insane

[grave cove]

But they made it super annoying to swap specs with the crafting requirements

[steel zinc]

It's not that bad it's weapon that's it

[grave cove]

Yeah mainly weapon but

I don't wanna spend another 80 myth crests on a weapon I might swap off n on

[steel zinc]

Yeah if you want to min max stars trinkets. But that's any other 3 DPS spec

[steel zinc]

Just loot saladbar mythic

[grave cove]

Saladbar? lol

[steel zinc]

Or a dungeon like Nexus with good rings and outlaw weapon, bons roll that

[plush roost]

omg they returned flag!!!

:^)

[steel zinc]

The return of aoe blind, flag and smoke bomb in pve

[grave cove]

Give us smoke bomb as a normal ability back 🙂

We'd immediately jump up in raid/m+ utility

But also make it 50% more transparent cuz we're blinding everyone lol

[tight fjord]

Looted the wrong damn trinket from him though

[steel zinc]

It's turned off in raid so I guess fine

Like the animation is player only in raid

[frail kindle]

dude i fucking love when you get a chance to minmax a hard fight like lura

shadow strike insta manual 2cp slice n dice build to 7cps and pool for first add set

[warm marlin]

the manual snd is tech

but also we're pirates now

[frail kindle]

ye i just thought of that

ur not eviscing until forever

[gleaming crane]

Guys do we want more crit for raid and m+ After buff ?

Because i See people with 1000+ crit and 500-600 mastery

[lucid jackal]

Just sim your gear

STop thinking about stats!

[shell vector]

Is there a reason you would ever use Feather over Guidon?

[short radish]

no

[thorn basin]

my sim is asking alot of crit including recraft, someone knows why?

[lucid jackal]

These 2 together

[tranquil sorrel]

Should I pre dance to get rotten pre pull?

or does it cancel out on pull

[lucid jackal]

yes

[tranquil sorrel]

I hate that

why is it so sweaty

When should I press dance pre pull?

[frail kindle]

cuz ur a rogue

its been this way since deathly shadows bud

[tranquil sorrel]

uuuuuuuugh

I know

[lucid jackal]

right on 20 seconds

Kinda doesnt matter much, unless ur doing double vanish opener or w.e

[tranquil sorrel]

so I need to pester my RL to do a 20 sec timer?

[lucid jackal]

Ur getting a rotten boosted backstab lole

[lucid jackal]

If they are doing a 10 second timer then it doesnt matter

[tranquil sorrel]

they do 18

[warm marlin]

even then the strike does no damage

[lucid jackal]

ask for a 20 instead

[tranquil sorrel]

oh boy hes gonna love me

[lucid jackal]

It legit doesnt really matter tho lamao

[tranquil sorrel]

yeah

feels very marginal

[swift tinsel]

I think I need to just not play for a while bc I’m really just not enjoying this game rn

[tranquil sorrel]

I do feel like premed was more fun

[ashen elm]

I legit did not think they could make the gameplay less fun

[swift tinsel]

And if deepening is in fact bugged I’m rerolling all the way off this spec/class

[lucid jackal]

gg.....

[swift tinsel]

🫡

[tranquil sorrel]

Blizzard and rogue bugs that never get fixed xd

name a more iconic duo

[pure cloud]

I won’t lie brrrrr’ing out finishers does rob them of their gravitas a bit, and can get samey, but I vastly prefer it to the new way

[swift tinsel]

Should clarify, deepening bugged as in not extending even if played around

Not that it matters big picture

[molten citrus]

huh

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[molten citrus]

_>

i haven't heard anything about that happening

strange

[swift tinsel]

Yea saw that message and was instantly down in the dumps

[manic salmon]

[swift tinsel]

The server tick issue is whatever bc it can be played around but if deepening is just not extending dance then

[lucid jackal]

Ive literally never had this happen

In 350 lura pulls a single time

[swift tinsel]

Unless charrend going for lulz

[warm marlin]

nah some other people mentioned it

idk what causes it

never happened to me tho

[tribal blade]

never happened to me but i've heard it from some yeah

[dense geode]

What is the benefit of sub for Lura over Sin outside of natural cleave for p1

[tribal blade]

somebody linked a gray parse and said they got the deepening bug

can somebody wake me up when the wiping on paladins is over

i don't wanna be here anymore

[pure cloud]

This games hard

[manic salmon]

nah

its easy

you just do what the bot tells u to do

[pure cloud]

The bot tells me 600 haste is fine

[rancid sierra]

the bot doesnt have ping

[manic salmon]

or spell queue

[pure cloud]

Or a penjamin

Latency irl

[dreamy wedge]

Can't we set a ping to the bot?

[short radish]

you can @wicked jolt yes

[brisk onyx]

It is now safe to roll on loot. Newly rolled items will now correctly remove the item from the bonus pool.

[frosty axle]

totally fine to keep premed yea?

[finite lynx]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[buoyant leaf]

Is Outlaw really ahead of us

[dense geode]

Yes

[lucid jackal]

On a lot of bosses yeah

[frail kindle]

dude sub is so lit with cloud cover

like i love shadowstrike feeling liike a nuke

[warm marlin]

im gonna schizo out with this variance increase man

chaining 300k beloren egg burns

and we kill on the pull where my gaze decides not to proc on either egg

and my strike has 8% crit rate

i hate crit damage

[wanton mantle]

anybody do some keys? my damage just feels off

[brisk thunder]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[timber sparrow]

yea everything feels so weird in new spec haha

[ornate slate]

so is it just me or does energy/cp generation feel TERRIBLE

[spice matrix]

midnight alpha was great. All our damage was generators and spenders were poop.

[timber sparrow]

yea its shocking

[ornate slate]

I dont even feel spammy in windows. feels rly bad

[timber sparrow]

u using crit flask isntead of magisters?

[ornate slate]

yes

[timber sparrow]

yea last night in raid it felt pretty ass to play

going to take abit to get used to no premed

[brisk onyx]

Does anyone know if the raid roll is based on the item level of the highest boss I've ever killed, or the item level of the boss's drops?

[wanton mantle]

ilvl of the boss

[frail kindle]

i swear its not even premed that takes the most getting used to its no warning signs

having like half the sht gen in dance feels so weird

[grand summit]

Does radiant plume and umbral plume take up 2 loot rolls?

[prime field]

yes

[wanton mantle]

feel like i havent been having any issues with combo generation outside of the pull

[grand summit]

Gross

[short radish]

yeah sometimes you feel like you should have a proc here

but you dont

[timber sparrow]

do we know if meld procs the rotten?

[warm marlin]

down with crit scaling

bake cb into sectec

[plush roost]

I played assa for 5 pulls, swapped back to check it and it was fixed

so idk

good game

I did crash on a wipe prior to this occuring

[tribal blade]

how awesome would it be

if sectec was 100% crit chance

for the dopamine

[foggy estuary]

Rogue
Fixed a bug that prevented the expected audio from playing when a Rogue enters stealth.

[warm marlin]

rate the fit

[foggy estuary]

OUT OF ALL THE BUGS THIS IS WHAT THEY FIX OMG

[tribal blade]

you look like you're from BFA

[jagged sage]

Okay I need some help, not sure if I'm allowed to ask this here or not but I am struggling to increase my parses in VS and honestly I have no clue what I'm doing in general as a rogue can someone help? I can provide any info necessary.

[warm marlin]

ye im a pirate

its thematic

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

got a blue parse on paladins as sin

i'll take it

[frail kindle]

bro i feel like these shadowstrike crits are hitting for more than eviscerate lmao

they actually feel like missiles

[toxic igloo]

So. numbing poison is the go to over Atrophic?

[tribal blade]

found another bug

the harandar weekly is not doable

[tribal blade]

i don't think so no

in raid atrophic is much better

[steady dune]

you cant expect too much from the multi-dollar indie start up. They only got like a couple hundred people on the team

[tribal blade]

in keys atrophic will work on both trash and bosses

numbing only works on trash

[raw frost]

sorry for asking does anyone tested The rotten if it's better than finality ?

[dire ravine]

in ST, yes

[raw frost]

in ST

ok

hope the cloud energy cost fix comes soon

[short radish]

don't hold your breath

[raw frost]

Sometimes if i dont use premed and start an opener and dont watch my energy canmt use it

[fluid lintel]

Is the slow even worth it?

[tribal blade]

it's good on trash

but on bosses it will only affect boss melee swings

it does nothing for everyone else

this is only a high key thing to take into consideration though

if you're doing weekly keys it doesn't matter

[jade oasis]

wish i can get rid of this

[toxic igloo]

@tribal blade what about m+?

[tribal blade]

everything i said was about M+

for raid it's just atrophic no question

[short radish]

what if my warlocks don't want to cast curse of tongues

[tribal blade]

THEN KLLL THEM

[short radish]

i wish i could

[tribal blade]

"i'm always top dps and have 3 irreplacable utility options but will always find something to complain about"

🙂

[paper siren]

It’s premed a huge dps loss for like m+?

tried a few keys last night and it felt better to run premed

Might just be me though

[raw frost]

its not ;D

[hollow quest]

Barely noticeable imo

[paper siren]

I’ll just play what feels better then

[raw frost]

basically

[dull fractal]

wait are we playing the rotten?

[raw frost]

with premed everytime you dance you are losing the apex talent damage when you use the 1st shadow strike

thats the whole difference xd

thats like less than 1 % of your damage

[brisk onyx]

premed NEVER a HUGE loss whatever in raid or m+

[raw frost]

i tested it

basically 😄 on your 1st shadow strike from stealth

you do for instance 20k dmg

without premed you can do 10-12 more from the copies

[jade oasis]

its -1500dps for me

[raw frost]

thats it

[brisk onyx]

1500 is not huge, and your rotten SS isn’t always crit

[raw frost]

i mean 😄

[brisk onyx]

it’s a loss but not huge

[raw frost]

if people hate themselves they can play without, but why you make your live harder for 1k dps

we are not that desperate ;d

[brisk onyx]

I mean choose what you like

chose premed isn’t a huge loss

[raw frost]

I mean there is little loss in dps, but when you use premed you have 1 free finisher everytime after shadow

[vale nebula]

what else would you pick?

[raw frost]

thats dps increase so basically is 50/50

there is nothing else

[vale nebula]

exactly lol

[raw frost]

you gan a lot of value from combo points POV and non existent dps loss from shadow copies damage on shadow strike

[median sigil]

have our stats changed? i thought we was mastery>haste im looking on archon and it says mastery>crit>haste

[cold citrus]

crit is giga for ST now

[dusky yacht]

Which is also wrong btw

[paper siren]

I’d argue that playing a rotation that feel like shit is a dps loss

[median sigil]

ok was like dam gonna have to recraft lol

[dusky yacht]

Well you might

[short radish]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700) > Critical Strike = Mastery > Versatility`

[short radish]

but like

who the fuck cares

get haste cap

then get crit/mastery