subtlety

[tribal blade]

also opener is so much nicer with premed

fair enough

[short vessel]

There is no way we're optimizing around using our supercharged CP w/ Ancient Arts without prem right?

[tepid steppe]

yeah im going back to premed, just a 0.3% loss for me

no premed sucks

[restive stream]

what is command for macros?

[empty bobcat]

finally 800 haste, no more haste for me 🙂

[fossil forge]

unc can u send ur m+ talents

rq

[tribal blade]

it's this but i'm using premed and warning signs

[fossil forge]

can u send import link

[tribal blade]

haha sorry not in game

just import the one in the pnis

pins

[fossil forge]

checking

[tribal blade]

then swap those 2 out if you want

i need to mess with running no premed

but so far i don't like it

[fossil forge]

i wanna try it out

[red flame]

Is Warning Signs still the play if I’m keeping Premed? Like is Planned Execution only moreso if you don’t drop Premed ?

[chilly creek]

Is anyone else having an issue where their second shadow dance isn't working for a couple of seconds out of the first shadow dance?

[storm maple]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tribal blade]

warning signs shifts dmg more into your solo dances

[restive stream]

thx

[tribal blade]

PE puts more dmg into blades

but that's also neutral

[red flame]

So it’s p much just if I want more dmg inside or outside sblades, it doesn’t actually matter?

[velvet bear]

It's -.5% for me too without premed

[lilac stag]

i have a funny feeling it's more crit dmg related than just shifting with the speed

[velvet bear]

Seems fair for a nicer opener tbh

[tribal blade]

i suspect this will mostly matter on a boss like belo

[vast dust]

I saw someone else mention this but didn’t get the issue until now…..the forever going into Stealth sound….GONE

[tribal blade]

where the egg phase burst matters

[red flame]

Heard

[tribal blade]

i think in most other encounters it doesn't truly matter

[thin sinew]

You're better off simming your personal gear. for me taking premed was a flat 0% gain/loss including the bugg others it was -1% or -1.4% inc bug

[tribal blade]

feelycraft tells me warning signs is better on dragons

because when orbs come out

and you send dances

you get a lot more apex procs

than when you're using PE

[lilac stag]

hi! it's me! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1496483557902913656/image.png?ex=69ea0c6b&is=69e8baeb&hm=c4d677e87af134389edcaefb9f85b36207fed2907459d4ee67112279d0a148f4&

[tribal blade]

for sniping that orb dmg

[thin sinew]

i totally wasn't using your numbers

[tribal blade]

for sure yeah

[thin sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/shy-xiaopang-xiaopang-dog-shy-dog-side-eye-xiaopang-side-eye-dog-gif-9723632265188618238

[mighty citrus]

cant you just switch the healing talent with prem? 😄

[thin sinew]

of course

it's all semi margin stuff anyway the bigger one is the dumb cloud popping

[mighty citrus]

but i still wonder why its a dps loss to remove a talend for 8% plus heal against a talent, which gives you more cp

[polar haven]

Does Shadow Blades cost energy?

[swift tinsel]

hehehe

[keen dome]

Yes, but it shouldn't.

[lime wigeon]

Both questions above are answered in pins

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade so this is WS

vs PE

[swift tinsel]

I'm about to ask for a summon before every pull so I can pre-stack sht before opener on a target dummy

[tribal blade]

yeah makes sense

[red flame]

That’s actually so smart holy

[mighty citrus]

oh indeed

ty

[tribal blade]

running WS is for sure putting more dmg in finishers

[red flame]

[swift tinsel]

if only we could target dummy toy in raid

(just make premed give sht)

[lilac stag]

i don't know if any of it actually matters tbh. rng gonna rng

[tribal blade]

well finishers for sub do a lot of dmg still

[swift tinsel]

the damage swings in blades on egg was kinda funny last night though

[tribal blade]

so i don't think it's a bad thing

[swift tinsel]

with 31% crit

[foggy estuary]

do i trust the sim? says to catalyze a voidlasher hood - crit haste for tier head set :/ i simmed with nightly

[lilac stag]

yep. so does strike + clones WEEEEEEE

[tribal blade]

lol true

[lilac stag]

thankfully dance is good

[tribal blade]

i dunno if my line of thinking is wrong, but if strike is doing as much as evis

[lilac stag]

just whatver you want for your breakdown

[tribal blade]

then doing more strikes or evises

are neutral to each other

[swift tinsel]

hehehe

[cobalt patrol]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[red flame]

Which one do yall prefer WS or PE

[tribal blade]

and then once it's more targets

obviously BP is stronger

BUT

all feelycraft

[lilac stag]

just highroll

ez

[swift tinsel]

solarflare gang rise up

it might actually be kinda interesting if you can get blades in execute with prism

[red flame]

Hero solarflare simmed slightly worse than chanp plume for me

[summer mason]

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
Isn’t this macro kind of clunky? This way you always cast Shadow Dance, but maybe all your cooldowns are about to come back and you’d rather wait a few seconds.

[red flame]

266 vs 263 also

[swift tinsel]

I should sim them again

[lime wigeon]

Even with 1% crit, over an infinite amount of pulls you'll have one where you always crit.
While more mastery will always increase your damage.

;)

[red flame]

It was like a ~600 dps loss or smt

[keen dome]

I'm always gonna crit

that's my secret

[lilac stag]

https://klipy.com/gifs/skill-issue-42

[wanton mantle]

Emberwing feather was simming almost 2k higher than box in dungeon slice that was wild

[thin sinew]

fruit ninja

[lilac stag]

sim with latest. unless it's a huge swing Id likely leave the helm alone

[desert dock]

sim tells me to drop ring with 100 haste and i am exactly at 700 -.-

can this be true ß^^

[brisk onyx]

for me, it's all just recraft crit/haste ring and amulet, and replace finality with rotten. It's still WS+Premed, 0.x% increase isn't enough to lower my qol

[swift tinsel]

ye its like 2% worse than gaze at myth

[lime wigeon]

#subtlety-faq message

[red flame]

Gaze keeps eluding me

I’ve had champ guidon + plume for the longest

[empty bobcat]

haste and crit sim literally the same for me even at 800

[swift tinsel]

I need to pug myth once they fix rolls

[empty bobcat]

I'd go with crit though

[red flame]

Real af

[empty bobcat]

as soon as you drop the ring it will probably sim you haste again

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) percent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[red flame]

I’ll prob do that next week if I can’t convince rl to try it

[fathom adder]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brisk onyx]

PE for big pull ye

[cobalt patrol]

How does the prepull work?

[brisk onyx]

actually, I think they're all irrelevant, whether it's PE/WS/Premed/no premed.

[swift tinsel]

press dance -> get 2x rotten stacks

and 2x supercharger

[lilac stag]

how to solve new talent build issues

[cobalt patrol]

And that persists when the boss is pulled?

[swift tinsel]

do it like 20 sec before pull, maybe 15

[cobalt patrol]

Thought you cant do that

[golden thunder]

this 30 energy bug -.-

[lilac stag]

it's a feature

[swift tinsel]

ye honestly 30 energy thing is worse than no premed

[brisk onyx]

nice buddy

[thin sinew]

that's cursed xD

actually getting tea for the one charge at pull is worse

[lilac stag]

nah, no tea

[thin sinew]

but tea is good!

[lilac stag]

just vigor

[thin sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/tea-good-morning-love-messages-gif-25662378

[manic ice]

i had to spec premed. i coudlnt handle building 7CP then afking to wait for 60 energy while watching the blood lust duration tick down

[wanton pond]

is there ar eason puzle box sims alot higher than guidon

[gusty jungle]

Do we really feel the buff in m+ guys or still swap to assa in m+ 17+ ?

[proud burrow]

no premed is a 0.5% dps gain but a 50% loss in enjoyment

[fathom adder]

do you just use full st build now for bosses like imperator or saladhar like the guide suggests or where would you pick potent powder as well as finality instead of weaponmaster?

[hallow mortar]

does any of thos settings have effect on the cloud cover smoke bomb

[twin surge]

is the smoke from cloud cover visible in raid to others?

[graceful terrace]

what did you trade for vigor

[lilac stag]

CBK

out of dance backstabs feel great

[thin sinew]

what's even more toxic my raid has 2 sub rogues xD

https://tenor.com/view/petty-parker-smoke-snoop-dogg-homer-simpson-disappear-gif-17093677

[twin surge]

yeah am not looking forward to smoking the raid on saladbar and killing people

[olive canyon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r8vnwYqCkm1JAtxZ?fight=12&start=2362563&end=2390592&type=damage-done just heroic but we blast bird dmg

im sure mythic pumpers will do even more

[weary tree]

you can just sort by Stage 2 at the top inside of time\

[vale osprey]

You can filter by P2 btw

[empty bobcat]

does it appear if they run only essential spells?

[olive canyon]

the more you know

[lilac stag]

you wont, range dont give a fuck and most of your raid is range

[twin surge]

didnt check it myself.

[empty bobcat]

it could be annoying hm

[lilac stag]

good

fuckers been annoying us forever

[empty bobcat]

xD

[lilac stag]

enjoy the smoke

[twin surge]

its annoying for me as well.. was doing pit and damn during the gauntlet.. its something

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

I was told by my raid no, but it was seen in keys

[sweet moss]

Do we still want 800 haste without guidon?

[lapis bough]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[weary tree]

yes

[brisk onyx]

Is it really possible to see it? I didn't seem to see guy's cloud on shindigg's stream

[haughty mural]

noice thats new

[swift tinsel]

ye been watching videos from yesterday and none of them show a cloud from the rogue

[haughty mural]

as role

[swift tinsel]

you can def see it in open world or in dungeons but not raid

[sweet moss]

Can we do the 294 craft yet or nah

[swift tinsel]

no

[sweet moss]

next week?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/pondering-pondering-my-orb-my-orb-orb-pondering-my-pondering-my-orb-orb-gif-24060364

sounds like its a 4-week-long quest

similar to the pvp neck

[sweet moss]

ah

[summer mason]

no premeditation in m+?

[sweet moss]

can takke

lose healign for it

[summer mason]

who care of healing

[sweet moss]

high keys ig

[empty bobcat]

just to be clear here, to get the full effect (max duration of fazed) you want to be in the cloud until it expires right, so you get 20s of the "buff" right

[wanton mantle]

Well that explains the puzzle box vs feather sim last night. Id a been 100 haste short for box

[daring pike]

am i the only one having a bug where cloud cover simply doesn spawn?

[empty bobcat]

makes it much more of a pain for others since you want your tank to not move for as long as possible xD

[daring pike]

happened to me twice in Caverns

seems like some elevation bs again

[lime wigeon]

It lasts 10 seconds after you leave. So being in it full duration would be same as being in it at start and at end

[swift tinsel]

you don't have to be in it the full time, as long as you refresh your buff as the cloud expires

[wanton mantle]

U didnt have the 30 energy to pop it

[sweet moss]

Is there a bug with bonus rolls or oaky to use now?

[daring pike]

what?

[empty bobcat]

fazed stacks keep refreshing as long as you stay inside the cloud, it exists for 10s, then after you leave the cloud it still occurs for 10s

[sweet moss]

costs 30 en

[uncut monolith]

So for 100% effectivity of cloud i must be 10s in and 10s out =20s?

[empty bobcat]

so its 20s ?

[vale osprey]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wD4cPMFgTjkXqtxN?fight=17&type=casts&source=21&view=timeline

God this shit is DIRE

[wanton mantle]

U need 30 energy when u press shadowblade check pins n bugs

[thin sinew]

#subtlety message

[twin surge]

as Haptics said. The radius is also quite big so unless its some pull where tank moves alot you are kinda ok. one example will be algethar tree pack.

[native trench]

its bugged right now making shadowblades cost 30 eng so you need 60 before you burst for SB + ST

[empty bobcat]

the 10s after are impossible to not get, since you either get it once you step out, or oince the cloud expires, importtant is the be inside for 10s imho

[daring pike]

oh wow

outstanding

[lusty acorn]

Is they fiz the buf of roll? Dublicate item?

[crystal bone]

more bugs

[lusty acorn]

Fix

[swift tinsel]

unsure

[frigid prawn]

uh not tfd anymore in m+ huh

[uncut monolith]

So in Dreamrift usually they pull boss and move 30 yards. So if i all in on pull then move 30 yards then i waste it y?

[empty bobcat]

there will be situations where you want to pop it once boss has move idk

highly situational i guess

[twin surge]

yeah.

[wanton mantle]

Ur gonna need 4-6 globals just to get 7 combo points so just wait till positioned

[lusty swan]

We still want 700-800 haste in m+ or just stack crit mastery?

[swift tinsel]

if you spec premed, kill a critter, then spec out of premed pre-pull do the cp persist

[lusty acorn]

Anyone got sword no want it?

[swift tinsel]

idr if they clear on respec

[twin surge]

super charge resets so i assume cp's do too

[uncut monolith]

I was using these 4-6 globals on move to the spot so now i cant, ty:) have to do first 6 s of pull only backstab..

[swift tinsel]

ye that's fine you can dance once you respec out of premed

tryna think of cheese lol

[uncut juniper]

is this macro viable to use?

#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

or it's bad to do this

[hallow mortar]

no premered gaming

[white briar]

it's bad if you ever want to hold shadow blades

[manic salmon]

is anyone elses robot telling them to have 1k crit

[wanton mantle]

Did they establish thru the night that sims was simming premed properly before i went to bed they said no

[uncut juniper]

I have another macro with sectec+SD

[thin sinew]

Always use Guidons before this also

[dark roost]

yeah its the new changes

[karmic harbor]

is recrafting actually messed up?

[manic salmon]

i thought so but i didn't think it would be this bad

the fact that guidon is now worse than puzzlebox for me as well

[wanton mantle]

So if ur gonna have 2 macros anyway why not just have 1 macro and 1 button for shadowdance?

[dark roost]

350% crit damage is huge

[manic salmon]

that is pretty true

[white briar]

then it seems like you already know the answer to your question 😄

that macro is fine in isolation if you're using it for a specific intended purpose.

[velvet jay]

do we already have the aoe blind? cause I can't find it in my talents xD

[manic salmon]

first thing on the class tree

below blind

[velvet jay]

oh lol I already have it xD

thanks!

[uncut juniper]

I was unsured about my macro haha, ty king!

[manic salmon]

monarch

[fossil forge]

no premed feels so weird

[sweet moss]

use it then

lol

[jade urchin]

is sim rota wrong or is shadowstrike damage big enough that its worth to do this now

[white blaze]

guys how much crit do we finally will aim for? in bis gear, for example. smb knows?

[sweet moss]

sim

[dark roost]

rotten + 350% crit damage is huge

[karmic harbor]

sim but the robot needs like 100 less haste

so wholesome

[summer mason]

Do we cap haste at ~700–800 and then go full crit > mastery like Assa?

[velvet jay]

I have the question aswell! Do we Shadow Dance with low or high cp?

[sweet moss]

yep^

high..

[jade urchin]

high but thats in opener

the screenshot

second dance in blades

[astral flax]

Yep, that’s using 2nd Dance during blades to fit in 2 sectechs

[undone ridge]

guys in maisara i.e again the bird and the dude (2bossfight) is it correct if i single target 1 boss and then the other?

[dark roost]

its just because in your opener he finishes dance with no cp

so his 2nd dance he opens with generator

[undone ridge]

or i do black powdeR?

[sweet moss]

ss in dance

and ppowder

[astral flax]

Shuriken storm outside of dance, shadowstrike inside

Black Powder on 2T

[sweet moss]

if u have ppotent

[jade urchin]

unlucky shuriken storm also shortens to ss

[swift tinsel]

strike/storm easy to differentiate

[grizzled cosmos]

Feels great use my bonus roll on the bird and got a plume instead of the ring

[swift tinsel]

I'm just focusing on Abyss Anglers til all the raid and bonus roll shit gets sorted out

[fair wedge]

recraft or reroll?

[sweet moss]

strike i meant then

[vale osprey]

Good for OL at least

[slate nest]

recraft

[tepid trellis]

i recrafted 3 items without issue earlier

[marble ledge]

On Murlok.io I see every top sub rogue using Light Guidon in M+, but Puzzle Box always sims much higher.

So what's the deal?

[fair wedge]

o wtf is bugged abt it

[sweet moss]

probs raiders using it and its better st

[slate nest]

you really wanna cast for 2 seconds in keys?

[slate nest]

while recrafting there's a chance it won't upgrade to myth tier and you lose crests

[tepid trellis]

Puzzle is better on higher target AoE and guidon is better on lower target counts + bosses

[fair wedge]

ff i was gna recraft all my stuff to haste/critt 😭

[tepid trellis]

i recrafted 3 items 4 hours ago and nothing went wrong, so do it at your own risk i suppose

[slate nest]

idk if it affects already myth tier items

[grizzled cosmos]

I gotta go back to using premeditation. I accidentally opened up with a one point secret technique lol

[somber sun]

is this normal ?

[light finch]

is that the second dance in shadowblades ?

[clear aspen]

nope, looks like a second dance in CDs without guidon to fit supercharger

if no guidon then makes sense

[somber sun]

shadow blades -> Shadow dance+sectec -> and this

[tepid trellis]

send the sim

[somber sun]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fnHorX4cy1HzgKiSSb98Nh

[tepid trellis]

to me it just looks like the 2nd dance in blades in which case its alright

yeh its the 2nd

[plucky pier]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

its fine

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[wintry heart]

I did a 14 pit last night and I feel like we’re pumping with cloud cover now

[somber sun]

👍 noted

[fluid moth]

I’m guessing the cloud cover energy cost is a bug? Kinda ass opener without premeditation and pooling energy after full combo points.

[wintry heart]

I’m just running premed until it’s fixed

[fluid moth]

Yea same I’m swapping back

[lilac stag]

yes that's the second dance in blades

[spice escarp]

ok this opener is cooked

[crystal bone]

[placid storm]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[spare crypt]

the forbidden opener

[ionic python]

Im the only one simming 6% more with premed or its already known

[unique beacon]

I'm not too familiar with warcraftlogs so I need some help: Just pugge HC Belo'Ren and got a 100 parse but it displays as 0. Is this due to first day of the patch? I didn't record the logs myself

[wanton mantle]

I respect the hustle

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif?ex=69e9bc40&is=69e86ac0&hm=69e9494c89a248eeedb4acf49fc8d9351cdef9d90d9ded1770e07bbbffc4b3b5&

[sweet moss]

are u silly?

[karmic harbor]

who out here critting their shit

[spare crypt]

1.2k or dont bother

[sweet moss]

guys why am i simming more with a dps talent than a healing talent??

[karmic harbor]

[lilac stag]

post sim

[wintry heart]

Last night I dc’ed on the first boss of voidspire and didn’t get to roll on loot. I also lost the crests. It locked me to the raid

[ionic python]

Yeah but i dont know if it was already counting the bug or not in the sims

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rn2Pt6SwEcWXLm1RY8pvYh

[lilac stag]

you may want to slow down and check the pins

[sweet moss]

what pimn

i was trolling a guy

[spare crypt]

ayo

how fart cloud role?

[lilac stag]

answer a letgit question vs trolling someone that is confused

[lilac stag]

bug is not modeled in sims no

[sweet moss]

mb^

[plush pecan]

I do the same...

[ionic python]

But ppl was simming like 0.3% less, how am i simming +6%?

[lilac stag]

youre simming dslice

[ionic python]

So the premed its only for st?

[plucky moon]

Do we play rotten now in raid in place of finality guys?

[mighty citrus]

just post sim

[tepid trellis]

he did

[ionic python]

On the talents i see that we're not running premed on AOE aniway, so

[plush pecan]

Im resiming with quick sim to see. THe gear comparision can be tricky

[lilac stag]

it's generally lesser value in aoe, still good for bosses. dslice model isn't perfect

[frigid prawn]

why dont we take tfd anymore in m+? 😄

[plush pecan]

oh so dslice for m+ we dont sim to see if we do better with the two specs? Old and new?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ifmpQxekkPgrkDPTiRG3e4

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3j1pia3kxSDHSnvrAmFjaa

but thats old, im resimming

[empty bobcat]

we dont fit a 2nd sectec into blades without lust right?

[tepid trellis]

premed would be less shit if you arent playing Weapon master

[lilac stag]

i mean the premed bug has been in the sims before patch, how were you simming then?

[tepid trellis]

with guidon you do

[empty bobcat]

ok

[tepid trellis]

or if you have 800 haste

[empty bobcat]

I have 800 haste but I cant

[zinc kayak]

so are we for real opening with 4 backstabs now?

[empty bobcat]

even sim cant

[tepid trellis]

show me

[plush pecan]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vxE69rrzZjeZvzEbGMB5vu

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1hhRs8CdyvR2t27ErxyynS

its still thje same

simming less with new spec

[south pelican]

When will logs update, anyone know?

[lusty acorn]

Is there someone roll 2 times and get different item?

[tepid trellis]

send me the sim link please

[dire forum]

Are we hard rerolling to outlaw or sub is still in the game?

[empty bobcat]

umm ok

[wet robin]

swap to bm hunter, class is ded

[lilac stag]

I love the first 24-48 hours after NA goes live in here

[wintry heart]

Nothing could make me play outlaw

[empty bobcat]

AH! mb I dont have 4s hahahha

[barren pike]

does cloud buff the whole team making enemies take more damage from everyone or just u?

[tepid trellis]

you dont have 4set do u?

[crystal bone]

sub ST goes hard in keys i love it

[empty bobcat]

ye yeh mb

[spare crypt]

sustaining 100k on ST

is lit

[lilac stag]

play with an arms warrior

[crystal bone]

i did 110k on elemental boss in AA 12 with just a hunter and monk buff

[fossil forge]

sheathing on your back is ingame for any transmoggers

[lilac stag]

did it get patched?

[wintry heart]

Easily a 10% damage buff

[wanton mantle]

SINCE WHEN I LOOKED LAST NIGHT

[fossil forge]

works

[wanton mantle]

Oooo i might call out of work to go do my xmog

🤣🤣

[lilac stag]

they just took NA down so we play rogue dress up in 45 minutes

[fossil forge]

XD

[merry agate]

honestly....how does something like that 30 energy thing for blades happen?...
like what the fuck did it work on ptr?

[wet robin]

firsttime.jpg

[tepid trellis]

distract code leftover probs

[stiff spear]

did smoke bomb cost energy once upon a time? x)

[worthy timber]

Just joined the disc so sorry if this has already been said. Is the opener now with no premed to shadow strike out of stealth, spam backstab to 7 point and then normal shadow blades, shadow dance, ST window?

feels weird spamming backstab after having premed

[hazy breach]

Vanish+strike once, but yes

[tepid trellis]

distract costs 30

thats why

left over code

[stiff spear]

ah. right that's what cloud cover was before

[wet robin]

wait, i thought we hold vanish for SB? between dances

im sure im wrong, but im easily confused

[lilac stag]

things gonna change rapidly for the next week

especially with 30 energy blades

[hazy breach]

If the cooldown of dance is longer than 10 seconds (and you dont have a charge ready) when sectech is up it just sends it natty

[hazy breach]

Very little difference either way

[wet robin]

ok tyty

[hazy breach]

And vanish on pull feels way better, especially with master of shadows

[stoic anchor]

pug tanks moving mobs out of cloud cover as soon as it drops thinking it's a new mechanic 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

[tepid trellis]

ive had bunch of people complain about the visual of it

that they cant see shit on the floor

when playing with my rogue

i love it

[wet robin]

good comms is "keep the jerks in my fart plz"

[tepid trellis]

being a menace

is great

[timid rose]

They just need to get good

[small vortex]

is it visible to other people in raid

[crystal bone]

my hunter friend joined me in the clouds hoping it also gave him 15% DR

[stoic anchor]

tell them their mother couldn't see shit on the floor last night too 🙂 forklift certified

[warm marlin]

it appears to stack and make it even harder to see with 2 rogues btw

[tepid trellis]

lol

[hazy breach]

The sectech thing shouldnt really happen if you have 4p+reasonable haste levels, but using it natty like i mentioned above was good if you for some reason have like 1k+ haste as trickster

[warm marlin]

we did some 2x sub keys on patch launch

when we both blades you literally cannot see swirls

they are entirely hidden

[raw frost]

will they fix smoke energy cost

[tepid trellis]

cant wait to cover lura glaives

with a fart cloud

[hazy breach]

Hopefully, but who knows when

[astral axle]

Rogue Stinky!!!

[tepid trellis]

well no 4p

makes it

ehm

[zinc kayak]

literally the first key

• what is this smoke thing cant see shit
• ah its the rogue buff!!

[sly shore]

they'll probably fix the visual being visible to others eventually lmao

[hazy breach]

Ye cant say ive optimized much for no 4p

[crystal bone]

https://tenor.com/view/archer-krieger-smoke-bomb-get-away-run-disappear-gif-9640060

[astral axle]

I didn't hear people complaining in raid much but in m+

[warm marlin]

it will get fixed due to pvp

i promise

[astral axle]

as soon as I pressed cooldown

[warm marlin]

its ungodly troll in pvp

[astral axle]

everyone in comms was

"BRO THAT IS CRAZY..."

[zinc kayak]

its tough to see puddles in windrunner on last boss

[long cape]

Is there a guide for each raid boss what to use as talents? I mean ST or AOE ?

[warm marlin]

the literal only way to distinguish between cloud cover and regular smoke bomb is that cloud cover is a little bigger

do you know how many people insta trinket and run into my cloud cover?

[sacred jewel]

count how many bosses are in the fight

[wet robin]

just quietly sniff and moan into your mic when you do it. that way they don't get scared

[warm marlin]

its pandemonium

[long cape]

And mini adds? :)) sorry for the spam questions

[zinc kayak]

but its still fun lmao

[kind edge]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fair phoenix]

first thing i do when severs come back is press shadowblades

so i see if still bugged or not

xD

[stoic anchor]

I'm like a sassy african american woman now. I TOLD YOU. DIDN'T I TELL YOU? AND WHAT HAPPENED? EXACTLY WHAT I TOLD YOU WAS GONNA HAPPEN

god freaking dammit man it feels so good to be right all the time

[granite bear]

is outlaw now much better then sub?

[thin sinew]

🤦‍♂️

[wanton mantle]

Outlaw will never even be better than the mud on my boots.

[sudden quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/shame-bell-game-of-thrones-walk-of-atonement-cersei-lannister-gif-16635977892557113898

[wind peak]

is NA down rn? EU is alive atm?

[plush pecan]

Still waiting for someone who know ma why premed sims better then no premed..

[raw frost]

Premed is giving 1k dps

Just the talent itself in sims

[wet robin]

the real answer is track warcraftlogs. every boss is diff. we don't have a whole lot of good data yet

[raw frost]

You wont see it in sims

[plush pecan]

Its 5k difference here

[thin sinew]

so minus -0.5% and it'll be your real number

[raw frost]

Yes

You can play with it and you will do 0.5-1 % less overall

I do that xd

[plush pecan]

So the 155 to 150 should be the 0.5% difference

[raw frost]

Its jusy better

Smoother

[soft summit]

I’m hitting 950 haste with no way to get it lower with my gear set up. What’s the next threshold? 1100? Is that exact and before weapon oils ?

[raw frost]

Dont put more xd

[tepid trellis]

with everything

break points in raw stats are with everything

[stoic anchor]

Yo what's this new smoke bomb let's move out of here

[wintry heart]

Rogue is literally unplayable until I get my stealth sound back

[stoic anchor]

Let's move the mobs out

[small vortex]

smoke scary

lungs hurty

[mortal violet]

did they just update the tooltip for eyes of the eagle enchant or was it buffed so the higher rank is 2% increased crit effectiveness now?

[thin sinew]

i'm waiting for a time my tanks get stunned then drop smoke on them so they give birth xD

[tepid trellis]

tooltip

[crystal sparrow]

whats the minimum crit you need for trickster now?

[tepid trellis]

no min

[mortal violet]

ive been using rank 1 this whole time cause they both said 1% gahhhhh

[tepid trellis]

it just likes the stat alot

[crystal sparrow]

so more than mastery?

[spare crypt]

for ST yes

[knotty oak]

yo, m track solarflare prism or hero alnseer ? 😮

[fiery fog]

i dont know if i like that ring or not

though its pretty good tbh

[crystal bone]

it's good, i went for it with one of my bonus rolls and got it last night

[raw frost]

So eyes of eagle rank 2 is 2 % crit dmg ?

Good xd

[velvet jay]

is 700 haste a hard breakpoint or is 695 fine aswell :P?

[raw frost]

Look at shadow dance

If its 7.5

Its enough

Duration

[velvet jay]

ah

thanks

[raw frost]

Np

[fiery fog]

yoo that ring is a 1.7k upgrade for me

damn

[sharp sapphire]

i guess adding in the shadow blades makro something like /y STAY IN THE FUCKING CLOUD makes sense 🙂

[swift tinsel]

imagine if the cloud lasted the entire duration of blades, your tanks would love you

[hazy breach]

Somewhere around 700 is fine

[slow jay]

if i have mith guidon and gaze should i spend my bonus rolls on pit of saron maybe? i dont have aleria neck

[hazy breach]

Just slightly more leeway if youre above and slightly less if youre below

[meager canopy]

What's the maximum cape for crit? Does anyone have the data?

[hazy breach]

There are none

[swift tinsel]

I was actually gonna look at how much crit you can get while still hitting breakpoint

out of curiosity

[sharp sapphire]

100%

[sacred jewel]

up to 30% is no DR

[swift tinsel]

DR's are in the mind

[radiant swift]

is the sim still not favouring haste ?

[swift tinsel]

push past your limits

PLUS ULTRA

(crit)

[sacred jewel]

i saw u mentioning solarflare, im sad its not simming quite as good for me

[swift tinsel]

ye it loses to gaze

at same ilvl

[sacred jewel]

was hoping i'd be able to upgrade my champ gaze/hero guidon

[wintry heart]

Im glad I saw the article that extra rolls are bugged before I used it again

[swift tinsel]

might be interesting if it procs in blades in execute

[sacred jewel]

my mythic solarflare is just minimally better than my champ gaze at 1/6 myth

[swift tinsel]

since its a rather large crit infusion

[loud wharf]

ughh the sim just loves dumping haste

[dreamy root]

bad news about shadowblades lads

[wintry heart]

Worse than whats already in pins?

[thin sinew]

It's not even that big of a deal shrug

[dreamy root]

na, servers are up, they didnt fix it

[thin sinew]

well the restart was probably to reenable housing

[wintry heart]

I just want someone to confirm when they fix extra roll tokens

[vale pine]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[verbal hedge]

Would be cool if casting distract causes the buff to trigger

[short radish]

not really super important but i did check that CC still drops even if distract is on cd

[sacred jewel]

relocating the cloud with distract like shamans

[short radish]

so it's not completely crangled

[sullen perch]

Why do I feel like I have way fewer combo points in .5 WITH premed? What's the interaction change I'm missing?

[fathom adder]

when is it cleave/adds and when aoe? i do not get the difference

[sick epoch]

it feels rly bad to press backstab 3-4 times on opener XD

[hazy breach]

Planned execution instead of warning signs probably

[sacred jewel]

2-3 target is cleave id say

[sullen perch]

I'm using premed

[hazy breach]

Which you can swap back if you want

[graceful rock]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

Like mentioned in the pins

[sullen perch]

goat, this might be it

[sick epoch]

rly?

[dire ravine]

I think you also get the cloud benefits for up to 10/s once leaving as well- if you have to move, say on fights like Averzian.

[unreal silo]

how come sub is no longer using premed? what changed

[sacred jewel]

read pins

[forest moss]

https://tenor.com/view/everything-reaction-meme-gif-23306023

[sullen perch]

I know pins are awesome. Also has tons of amazing info, you're bound to miss stuff hammering your head against the wall as a dumbdumb

[wanton mantle]

Does rogue even have a creator anymore, or is the unholy dk guy pulling double duty n playing favorites

[sullen perch]

Oh yeah this feels like it.. Thanks, eleem

[loud wharf]

Would imagine this would be like Paladins check line one.

When Averzian check line 2

[harsh ridge]

Guidon is working for you ? I don't see the hast buff in my stats since the patch

[somber sun]

Is it worth spending token for heroic guidon? ( Or wait a long time till I get to mythic raiding and spend it there?)

[soft summit]

Anyone else concerned that cloud cover smoke hiding game mechanics will cause groups to stop taking rogues?

[sick epoch]

but u using previous talents then, right?

[weak vector]

Am I correct in assuming we should 100% bonus roll for Gaze over Myth track gear from M+?

[lilac stag]

If you can reroll on a boss you already killed, heroic farming guidon maybe not a bad idea

[wanton mantle]

They werent taking rogues to begin with so whats the difference lol

[lilac stag]

since there is no heroic lockout sans the loot

[sullen perch]

for now just trying to understand all the elements at play. Still somewhat new. If I have to sac half a percentage point to play something that feels nicer, I will.

[sweet moss]

is it fine to use haste flask over crit/mast flask if still reaching thresholds?

okok ty

and we are using double acuity of ren'dorei enchants on weaps

now

[sharp seal]

how do you finish on Aleria myth in 2target situations? BP> evis inside dance and just evis outside dance? sorry didn't have much sub practice before

[lilac stag]

it's a pretty safe assumption, but youcan toss sim it

[sweet moss]

strike in dance

on 2

ss outside

on 2

bp on 2

[weak vector]

Yeah, Gaze comes out on top, just gonna cross my fingers

[lilac stag]

our DK imploded getting boots he already had

[sweet moss]

i was gonna roll for gaze but just prpaying guild give it

kek

[lilac stag]

we forced everyone to roll

otherwise you arent getting it

[sacred jewel]

i doubt he is running potent powder in raids, so bp on 3 targets

[wanton mantle]

Fuu was adamant about not bonus rolling heroic level gear till the end

[sweet moss]

ye true

i have myth pprism

atm

so

idk

[wanton mantle]

Get all ur myth pieces first, ur sacrificing potentially 2 myth pieces for maybe 1 heroic piece

[keen steppe]

when they fix the prem bug in 10 years we will play it again ?

[lilac stag]

Guidon going from heroic to mythic guidon isn't a large jump, not having guidon to having guidon is a large jump. It is entirely dependent on individual needs

[wintry heart]

I took hero guidon from vault just so I could use extra roll tokens in pit and im sure that was dumb but now im free from pug raid prison

[swift tinsel]

nah hero guidon is good to take

[sullen hare]

We take that w

[swift tinsel]

means you don't potentially waste a roll

[warm marlin]

no reason to ever bp on this fight really

[stiff spear]

Is Myth gaze still the go to for roll if I already have hc gaze?

[keen dome]

nah that's valid imo

can just go pug myth weekly for a cheeky shot at it

[stiff spear]

I mean it seems to be in sims anyway, answered my own question

[short aurora]

i went afk for the last 8 hours, are we taking premed now or nah

[wanton mantle]

Or u can farm hero box and still be within reasonable playability and still save ur rolls

[swift tinsel]

idk if saving rolls is really that worth

[wanton mantle]

Always

[lilac stag]

no one willingly using box on sub ffs

[swift tinsel]

if its a boss you want loot from, send

you get 2x per week

[vivid spindle]

do we reroll hc Gaze or is this too weak?

[swift tinsel]

for literally zero extra work

[tulip viper]

weird questoion, whats the reason for shadow dance before blades in our opener

[keen dome]

I wouldn't use it on a heroic raid at all, ever.

It's not worth it

[sacred jewel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mEtDD68PTMwUJouFZzTBJ3
considering its "just" a hero ring that I can probably replace with M+ rings, looks like it's a solarflare angle?

[wintry heart]

But also wait on using extra rolls unti l confirmed fixed

[tulip viper]

cant we just hit blades, then dance/secret macro

[wanton mantle]

I dont find box that hard to play its pretty easy imo hit box wait, do dam move on with life

[swift tinsel]

if you aren't doing myth chim or plan on it ever then hc roll probs isn't the worst thing

[wicked wadi]

Pinned says not to, but I think I will anyway

[keen dome]

I feel like sending it in an M+ is more value though

[lilac stag]

maybe extra loot roll angle

[swift tinsel]

it could be, kinda depends on what their situation is

[keen dome]

'cos you'd get actual (2x) myth gear instead of a (single) hero piece

[swift tinsel]

ye

like if you're hurting for trinkets you can maybe get something from m+ like prism or just stick with rep trinket

[lilac stag]

broke ass bitches pushing their box on our street

[swift tinsel]

can always just roll in +10 skyreach

fast run ez loot

[astral axle]

i dont believe there's anything wrong with hitting blades+guidon then dance+sectech

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

vault m+ is always 272 isn't it

[warm marlin]

rep trinket simmed better than any passive option from dungeons at 276 for me

[wanton mantle]

+if your in just ur average heroic raiding guild i gurantee 80% of ur dps are gonna bonus roll for gaze and u can get one for free in a week or 2 probably. My raid got 6 last night

[sacred jewel]

i might use up my 2 rolls first, and then reassess my vault

[swift tinsel]

regardless of key level after 10

[keen dome]

this is def the other part of it, yeah

[warm marlin]

and that was before the crit improvement

[lilac stag]

be careful with mutliple rolls, they are bugged

[sacred jewel]

oh yea i heard about the dupe item

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm waiting on m+ rolls til I see the all-clear

well, my 2nd roll

[balmy gate]

whats the best bonus rolls from dungeons?

[keen dome]

I sent mine on Chimmy earlier, I will see if I regret my words and deeds next week

[lilac stag]

until LC says he you didn't roll, no trinket. NEXT

[swift tinsel]

I got pit legs with avoidance so I'm pretty happy with that

[lilac stag]

https://klipy.com/gifs/seinfeld-soupnazi-3--k01KPTVHSMDNEMEAM3E4BJTSHMW

[wanton mantle]

Like i think 10 people rolled for 1 gaze. And then all the people who lost bonus rolled and we got another 5. Thats 6 rollers off the trinket next week lol

[indigo breach]

Bold to assume bliz will retroactively fix

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

I haven't used my 2nd so that doesn't affect me

[sacred jewel]

what did u get

[keen dome]

belt. so if I get another belt next reset

[marble oriole]

had this linked in guild disc and i think it pertains to sub rogue

😏

[weak vector]

FFS bonus rolled the belt ):

[indigo breach]

If the dupe tracking isn’t working there’s no guarantee they’ll go back and add your first rolls is my worry

[shell hollow]

Same

[lethal thorn]

ai slop for sure

[keen dome]

Worst case is I figure out how to wear two belts

[weak vector]

so lame lol

[shell hollow]

[limber folio]

[warm marlin]

insane to say after they giga crunched their team by moving the addonpocalypse ahead an expac

[swift tinsel]

ye saw WA tweeted that and had a good laugh with my morning coffee

wowtwt has been a gas this morning

[keen dome]

my favourite bug is the loss of stealth sound

[wanton mantle]

I will 100% tell u they pry wont add ur first roll cuz its blizz.

[keen dome]

I think that one is just really funny

[limber folio]

• Ellesmere

[wanton mantle]

How do u freaking break stealth sound!? Spaghetti code

[radiant swift]

is the vault roll u can get a one roll for m+ or is it like the other one, where u can either roll twoce in m+ or once for raid

[sacred jewel]

m+ costs 1 token, raid costs 2 tokens, u get 2 per week (+1 if u skip vault)

[plush roost]

Gigacrunched and layed off half of it mind u

[radiant swift]

makes sense

[wanton mantle]

Low key is it big brain if u got shafted this week on vault (i did) nd save ur 3rd reroll tonsee if u get shafted next week to get a pontential double raid roll?

[warm marlin]

it's ok the community has greatly benefitted from the takendown of those evil weakauras (they came back not even halfway through the tier but now our ui sucks)

[weak vector]

Thats my plan now

[warm marlin]

you can't roll from raid twice in a week with a lockout fwiw

[finite hedge]

You can on different bosses

[wanton mantle]

Exactly

[warm marlin]

ah ye if u need multiple different bosses

[wanton mantle]

Like thats the only way id send a roll for hero gaze or guidon

[lethal thorn]

man i dont know wich to take or just pick bonus rolls since i plan to go use my bonus in skyreach anyway and already have a crafted dagger

[plush roost]

Use your bonus rolls then take dagger if u miss

[wanton mantle]

This is the way

[solar kestrel]

guys is this true

[sacred jewel]

teammates surely get distracted by the cloud

it works

[jade urchin]

that would explain the 30 energy cost

[warm marlin]

in a sort of ways yes

i dont think it actually makes the mobs turn

but it does cast distract

[vale pine]

just to mention this, i did a quick hacky test because someone asked me (in dm).
And strike-vanish(potentially blades here)-strike-cooldowns
or strike-cooldowns-strike-secret
is only ~0.3% worse, but feels nicer to play.

[lilac stag]

you can call me out.

[vale pine]

haha ^^

[sacred jewel]

u are just someone

[marble oriole]

Lol

[lethal thorn]

but i plan to run 3 skyreach and so i cant miss in 2 week if i take vault pity

[lilac stag]

I never claim to be an apl adjuster.

old school smack the dummy dummy

[plush roost]

What are you looking for from SR

[vale pine]

alright, scath asked me in dm, i just wanted to put the information public as its slightly less cursed for a small trade off

[buoyant wadi]

@vale pine how much - dps is the premed bug? because rn it sims .3% better or is it already considered in sims?

[vale pine]

probably more than that

[buoyant leaf]

anyone else feel a tad weaker since patch

[vale pine]

!cc

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Blades / Cloud Cover bug:
Talenting into cloud cover gives Shadow Blades a 30 energy cost; this is not intentional and seems to come from the implementation of the talent. It seems to just cast Distract, which costs 30 energy. Make sure to have enough energy before using Shadow Blades.

[vale pine]

this bug is worse tho

man...

[plush roost]

Nop i am blasting lura lowkey

[warm marlin]

the part where you can't spend sht on rotten strike because premed isn't a bug, it's accounted for. the apex premed bug isn't in sims, if you add it manually its like 0.3%

[swift tinsel]

ye I've been having a lot of fun cloud cover gaming

[buoyant leaf]

maybe it is just the opener trying to build initially

[frosty vector]

So the only thing that changed during the opener is that you have to build 7 combo points with backstab then do full secret tech, shadowblades, trinket potion?

[swift tinsel]

was crankin hog on eggs

[keen dome]

eggs eggs eggs

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fiery fog]

guys
if i take algethar ring from vault i end up at 641 haste with some gear changes
iis that a haste food angle?

[lethal thorn]

everything all the item or either catalising upgrade or bis or upgrade xd

[thorny obsidian]

has anyone noticed the graphical effect from cloud cover is not always appearing?

[lilac stag]

You didn’t have 30 energy when you cast blades

[thorny obsidian]

oh god its cross linked

[graceful rock]

ive already convinced a couple of tanks that the enemies in the cloud do reduced melee damage, youre welcome

[thorny obsidian]

i didn't catch that

[swift tinsel]

lol same

[thorny obsidian]

saaaame

[swift tinsel]

"what's that cloud?" "big dam big dr"

(for me)

[mortal violet]

and all the non rogues are telling tanks that they get a reduced hit chance if they stand in the smoke

[swift tinsel]

[plush roost]

Hmm idt the trinkets all that good

But yeah ig the loot tables kinda pog

[plush roost]

Premed no rotten doing pretty decent damage

I was lazy and didnt wanna backstab hehe

[muted frigate]

So rn on opener we actually have to sit there to pool 60 energy after building to 7?

[swift tinsel]

Akaari getting beat by healers smh

she slackin

[warm marlin]

sub do be blasting...

[wicked wadi]

This is why i refuse to drop premed. I'm not gonna sit and cast backstab on opener. Never happening

[swift tinsel]

I kinda wanna go all-in on crit blades maxxing lol

I really like the big booms

[plush roost]

Its mostly cause u fuck your crystal damage on midnight falls

[warm marlin]

did you try the vanish variation of the opener

is it still cooked on the timings

[plush roost]

Nah

Wr were only on for 45 min

[worthy timber]

Best dungeon to use bonus roll on for Myth dagger?

[plush roost]

Because

[pulsar hemlock]

Have they hotfixed the energy cost on SB yet

[plush roost]

Patch day reclesr delays

Kekw

[swift tinsel]

pit or skyreach

[warm marlin]

ye

[pulsar hemlock]

Or is it a confirmed feature

[left ledge]

ANY BETS ON WHEN CLOUD COVER IS FIXED

IM BETTING 12.2.7

[swift tinsel]

12.1

[plush roost]

13.0

[swift tinsel]

or 12.1.5

[left ledge]

LOCKING IN YOUR BETS

[lilac stag]

I think guidon + blades into vanish into dance + Sectech maybe the way

[warm marlin]

if they fix the energy they might look at other strange things happening with the talent

[sly cove]

why are we taking the 8% healing over premed boys?

[worthy timber]

Do previous hero drops from these dungeons count towards the de dupe system on bonus rolls? Or only myth drops from vault

[pulsar hemlock]

!moroes

[left ledge]

500K GOLD TO WHOEVER IS RIGHT

[warm marlin]

not sure i want them to

[wicked wadi]

Guessing never.

[swift tinsel]

oh if we're locking in then 12.1.5

[pulsar hemlock]

!rtb

[undone ridge]

is sub bugged guys?

[left ledge]

yes

severely

crippling bugs

[wicked wadi]

Read pinned but I'm just not. I reckon lots of other players will stick to premed too.

[swift tinsel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[swift tinsel]

:willsmithmeme:

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/always-and-forever-always-and-forever-gif-5606975

[left ledge]

i went ephemeral over premed

it feels like ASS

[swift tinsel]

man that list is still huge lmao

[wicked wadi]

exactly

[left ledge]

but we do need that big strike damage

so i must suffer for it

anyways though i rerolled outlaw, and the opener felt waaaaaaay better in energy

but every other cast of AR past the opener feels like sub's opener

[finite hedge]

So dramatic all these backstab moaners. It barely matters unless it fucks with timings

[worthy timber]

Do previous hero drops from these dungeons count towards the de dupe system on bonus rolls? Or only myth drops from vault

[left ledge]

they really cooked with the distract cast

[lilac stag]

guess what it does

[hazy breach]

Neither

[left ledge]

it does fuck with timings

[finite hedge]

Yeah sometimes it does. Agree

[haughty heart]

So whats the oppener now without prep

[hazy breach]

Only items gained from the coins themselves

[lilac stag]

[left ledge]

ive been doing a big brain move with no premed

[worthy timber]

ew okay makes sense

[left ledge]

ive been sending my opener cds with 2 cp sectec

[hushed roost]

ngl i didnt really think about it before i started yesterday and i felt like a dumbass building 7 points then casting puzzle box during opener lust LOL

[lilac stag]

big burst

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

I tried messing with dance+stab since it’s less energy.

[warm marlin]

nah this is devious work

[worthy timber]

Guessing its just best to send the bonus rolls on Myth Gaze over myth weapon from dungeons right

[jade urchin]

do u have access to myth gaze but not vorasius dagger somehow?

[left ledge]

[worthy timber]

Still stuck pugging mythic.. so Voracious isnt garunteed based on the group

so right now its either roll on Myth gaze or roll 2x on Skyreach for dagger

[hazy breach]

Mainhand probably more worth

As you get 2 chances at it

[left ledge]

[worthy timber]

Even with a Hero dagger and champ gaze right now?

[lilac stag]

why can’t we just have nice things?

[lilac stag]

Craft a dagger?

[warm marlin]

ok honetsly

probably fine to do

[finite hedge]

Lmao

[warm marlin]

on this fight only

[idle echo]

do we play premed or not?

[warm marlin]

idk about you but im in every soak

[haughty heart]

Whats the %dps loss taking prep over efimeral?

[warm marlin]

so i send one dance with this first blades

and then i walk out and lose the rest of my blades

[storm maple]

[warm marlin]

i should maybe just send it earlier to get more stuff in

[brisk onyx]

great

[subtle garden]

wasn't it always 2% for the gold rank of the enchant the tooltip just wasn't accurate?

[warm marlin]

it was 0.75% and 1.25%

[storm maple]

damn

[brisk onyx]

no its 1.25%

[subtle garden]

ah, okay

[jade urchin]

cant i just do 1 dance into blades at ~0:22

will be up for egg again

[warm marlin]

yeah

you can do that

[jade urchin]

i meant u

lol

[warm marlin]

oh

i think my 3rd dance of the fight needs to not spend to save superchargers

[neon frigate]

And is my sub rogue s tier now in dmg?

[warm marlin]

like i could probably just not blades p1 at all

and vibe

[shy flare]

Using search I see this question has been asked a bunch but I’m still unclear of the spread I should be looking for. As someone who mainly cares about m+ what is the mastery/crit spread I should be aiming for and does trinket situation affect this? I’m currently using box but will try to replace with guidon soon

[swift merlin]

is there a pin to the new openers?

[hazy breach]

Should've already had these on, but yeah they're better now

[jade urchin]

we had pulls where our ele shaman crashed on pull and those were the ones we had the best intermission timings

[subtle garden]

backstab or go back to premeditation

[hazy breach]

2% > 1.25%

[warm marlin]

we are holding dps on bird for like 15s

[zealous raptor]

Hey, I’m picking up Rogue again since my guild needs one.
Is Sub still the go-to raid spec after the patch?
If not, is Assa or Outlaw performing better right now?
I’m kinda split between the specs and would appreciate a tip — even if one shines more in M+.

If this is the wrong chat for that type of question sry gonna delete and post it in the right one.

[swift merlin]

so back stab then pop cds

[haughty heart]

whats the % diff

[jade urchin]

ye same but sometimes things happen

and by sometimes i mean 50% of pulls

[subtle garden]

run a sim for you, but it was like ~150dps loss for me to go back to premeditation, and premed feels way better than backstabbing with no energy to build up to full combo points to send your burst on pull.

[haughty heart]

So its almost insignificant?

[neon frigate]

What is different about the opener does it change?

[sharp sapphire]

i ll be using my bonus rolls on Nexus-Point. There is a dagger there. The two rings with no versa stat on them, Gloves and feet for catalyst, which both of mine are heroic. 6 out of 7 drops will be an improvement for me. Only "bad item" is the chest cause I already have tier mythic chest

[velvet bear]

Yes, -0.5% with premed for me. So almost nothing

[keen dome]

Pfft, Sub is so strong. I did more damage than both other DPS combined!

[lilac stag]

Sim isn’t accounting for the bugs with premed

[soft summit]

what bugs... great

[haughty heart]

Oh again, ofc its for the bugs

[warm marlin]

unless you have a lot of crit, it does seem like premed is essentially neutral

[uncut monolith]

Same

[warm marlin]

and it makes opener a lot less cringe

(with sim bugs accounted)

[gilded jungle]

Its showing a 5k increase going just going premed

[lilac stag]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[amber sedge]

it feels wrong with no premeditation in raid

[lilac pendant]

we now want to shadow dance with low cp?

[neon frigate]

Guys is the rotation now the same or not :)????

[amber sedge]

check pin

[neon frigate]

@amber sedge how?

[cursive tundra]

okay with full consumables I'm looking at
980 mastery
698 crit
706 haste (i'm running myth guidon)

does this look okay for keys/raid?

[neon frigate]

Thx

[sharp sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-traitor-of-mars-starship-troopers-gifs-arachnids-bugs-gif-11179914308208058276

[subtle garden]

more crit

[sharp sapphire]

sub rogue in a gif

[keen dome]

We're less bugged right now than we've been for a while

it's fine

[subtle garden]

fix the sblades using energy with cloud cover, lol

[glacial hinge]

Im kinda happy with sub state rn, could be better ye, but we had way worse iterations of the class

[cursive tundra]

i can change flask, then I'd be at 815 mastery, 863 crit and 706 haste

[subtle garden]

that one is just weird

like we're still casting a distract or something

[amber sedge]

take crit flask

[shell hollow]

Ilvl? How much vers? Total seems a lil low

[soft summit]

Wait until you join a few dungeons (if you manage to get invited) and the group tells you to stop dropping smoke on the ground cause they cant see any mechanics

[gloomy loom]

hows stat lookin

[cursive tundra]

135 versa, currently at 278 ilvl

no wait

79 versa*

[subtle garden]

idk if it was a visual bug or what, but no one else could see my smokebomb and I couldn't see the other rogue's smokebomb in raid, so idk

[sharp sapphire]

nah! we are just used to play around the bugs that we reach a point to consider them working as intended

[wanton mantle]

I played a full crit build last night n keys and it felt awful my damage was just off i think keys u still want max mastery

[versed fiber]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glacial hinge]

Qait that actually happens? * Drops gas mask*

[haughty heart]

Ofc, in aoe is mastery lmao

[cursive tundra]

my total is 2465 across all secondary stats

[still gazelle]

Fuu sims are live sims?

[cursive tundra]

running gaze + guidon

[subtle garden]

mastery always gains value with more targets, especially since we're basically stacking crit for the shadow strikes+echo damage

[wanton mantle]

Well the guys aski g about his stats for keys and raid and everyones saying crit. Important to make the distinction i think between keys and raid

[subtle garden]

always more crit, big numby, lol

[gloomy loom]

raid wise good?

[subtle garden]

good, ye

[still gazelle]

Idk what kinda gear people are playing with where there's a massive difference. The flask matters for sure. Once you hit 700 haste your other pieces ebb and flow a tiny bit.

[still gazelle]

But we're already avoiding vers, so once you hit that 700 haste it's a small tip one way or the other aside from the flask.

[finite hedge]

Yeah someone needs to post the stat gif again

[subtle garden]

I'm just going to keep saying more crit whenever anyone asks on stats

[shrewd lantern]

ok lol

[lilac stag]

because I'm bored. 900crit, 680haste, 600mastery, 200 vers

[shrewd lantern]

my prem vs no prem sim

is almost the same

[still gazelle]

So take the extra heals

[subtle garden]

more crit,

[lilac pendant]

Whats a good talent to drop for crimson vial talent?

[lilac stag]

i need new legs

[summer mason]

it’s a mechanical fluidity issue for me without Prem

[rain swift]

I'm not sure I'm liking the new talents, this is on heroic 1 week apart on Imperator, didn't die and followed the rotation according to raidbots, might just be a heavy skill issue tho (I dont have guidon or gaze yet, unluckiest person ever)

[subtle garden]

here you go, bis stats

[thin sinew]

for a computer yes

so useless for people

[subtle garden]

yeah, you're right, needs more crit

[vague oar]

I feel like imperator isnt a great fight to gage dps on. Dps on that fight relies a lot on how fast everyone else is killing the adds. If the rest of ur team is killing them faster, you'll just do less dps overall

[lilac stag]

sub still a vibe. now with better mogs

[rain warren]

What are those daggers

[finite hedge]

I don't get why people can't handle a few backstabs. We do it all the time between dances. Unless your timing is screwed like on Lura crystals or something premed doesn't do anything. It's not worth losing a 200k shadow clone strike. On fights where it matters you can just vanish in opener.

[hexed wave]

is there a similar table for assa? looking to see if swapping is easier for higher keys

[rain swift]

yeah I personally had just lower dps through this boss, chim and vorasius, all with the same DPS fall, Im doing really good for the first minute and a half, after that my DPS plummets

[wanton mantle]

I feel this. Bro im already using box and it doesnt bother me u think a couple extra backstabs will? HAHA

[thin sinew]

because some people it's not even a dps loss and they prefer it?

[warm marlin]

are you making sure to have energy to drop the smoke bomb

[wanton mantle]

Since sims arent accounting for the bug u cant say it isnt a dps loss

[rain swift]

yeah smoke bomb goes off every time

[lilac pendant]

new crimson vial talent so cool, i feel like a classic mage

[thin sinew]

it's -0.5% to use prem

[finite hedge]

Pretty sure the sim doesn't account for the premed bug.

[still gazelle]

Will blades blow and the smoke just DOESN'T happen w/o 30 energy? Feelsbadman.

[shrewd lantern]

yeah its really whatever

unless the fight timers are tight

[warm marlin]

yes

[wanton mantle]

Yeah the .5% number has be regurgitated becuz of sims that arent correct lol

[wintry heart]

I am trying to figure out what to craft... I have two hero track rings.. probably worth it to make one of those 285

[still gazelle]

Oh man that needs to get fixed ASAP.

[manic ice]

how can the sim not account for the bug, if the sim is saying im losing damage by taking prem

[crystal bone]

[graceful terrace]

is it unusual for sim to prefer guidon over puzzle box in M+?

[sage meteor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[thin sinew]

by that logic sims are never correct to the actually game so never use them lol.

[graceful terrace]

im at haste cap maybe just diminishing on mast?

[still gazelle]

No. The Sim doesn't know your pull sizes.

[fathom adder]

anyone else not getting the hast trinket to sim better than puzzle in st? both myth, ~ 700 dps difference