subtlety

[raw frost]

well so we haev 1 chance ;d

cause we have only 2 rolls

if we dont skip vault

at least for raid,

i will just yolo 1st boss xD and pray for guidon then

I am sick of this feather trink

oh ye wtf 😄

skyreach has all good items for us holy shit

for tier and weapon pf

[obsidian crag]

and u can also catalyst the gear from skyreach if u feel like

[raw frost]

yes

i have 263 champ spo i need parts

for catalysting

will do

and the prism is good as well

[obsidian crag]

https://wow-loot-table.vercel.app/?cl=9&a=leather&s=agi&i=g&b=0&cat=0&sp=1&spo=1203

[red flame]

Does it roll per boss I’d assume, whereas in m+ you roll the whole dungeon?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[red flame]

Loot-table wise

[red flame]

Hell yea

Do we get 2 today or do we know yet

[hazy breach]

Yes

2 every week

[red flame]

Fk yea

[fleet wharf]

how does it work with the socket items?

[hazy breach]

What

[red flame]

I can’t wait to crash out when I get Oozing Vestige on my roll ✨

https://tenor.com/view/finding-nemo-today-todays-the-day-excited-gif-13929260

[fleet wharf]

like do you get 2 per week no matter what or do you need to spend the socket currency for the 2 rolls?

[hazy breach]

You get 2 per week

If you take the thing from vault, you get 1 (or 2? idk) more

[red flame]

The vault one is uncapped

6 merit tokens for the 1 extra roll

From vault

[hazy breach]

Ye so 1

[red flame]

I do know that

[golden basin]

if you picked tokens last week and did not spend wouldnt you get 2 rerolls?

[red flame]

Bonus roll shi is the higher ilv too ya?

[golden basin]

since they are unique (12)

[red flame]

Or can stuff that wasn’t rolled be upgraded too

[red flame]

Probably

But tbf

It’s blizz we’re talking abt

No fun allowed, remember?

[fleet wharf]

idk demon hunters seem to be having plenty of fun

[red flame]

But should function that way yes

[red flame]

New spec

New classes/specs are always special for a time

[mint swift]

I am having a blast atm

[fleet wharf]

it is really quite shocking how fun it is considering how few buttons they have

it's a wonder what they can do with well designed systems and interactions

[mint swift]

Oh I’m not playing devour

[fleet wharf]

really makes you wonder why we're the way we are when they are capable of making something fun

[mint swift]

I just wanted to say I’m having fun

[fleet wharf]

happy for you friend

[lilac stag]

i'm having fun. it's almost like fun is an individual emotion

[obsidian crag]

having cds out of gcd is the best thing , imo

[red flame]

It’s not, it’s a hivemind thing

Imagine having feelings as an individual & not a hivemind

[hardy olive]

hey, is it advised to get all of the grim jest pieces for sub?

i'm able to get the chest piece, but not sure if that's advised or to spend the material on another piece

[obsidian crag]

if you are farming xmog, yes (which I am)

[lilac stag]

weird. and it's not like there isnt room for improvement. overall it's a nice vibe for what the game has turned into

[red flame]

Yea I like tww & current Sub

I enjoy them

[hardy olive]

Is this still the go to for Sub? - "For Subtlety Rogue, you want to focus getting your 2-set from Masquerade of the Grim Jest Icon Masquerade of the Grim Jest and Venom Casks of the Grim Jest. Because the stats are great, you will also get another tier piece, Blade Holsters of the Grim Jest."

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait for to piss off the masses with its visual and maybe we finally get a way to turn down others spell effects.

[red flame]

Oh fr tho

So excited to terrorize the group w it every 90secs

Also I been dying for Smoke Bomb back so this is like the next best thing flavor wise

[slender kraken]

I probably answer this my self but guessing sim my char. See where best drops are and roll my bonuses rolls there

[slender kraken]

I agree just one extra button push between blades. I wouldn’t complain

[wet robin]

Cloud of smoke with silence circles spawning underneath. These old eyes suffer

[fossil forge]

Draught enjoyer spotted

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[woeful wren]

Btw. If we have an item from the boss. Do we know if u still can get that item from bonus roll (item wasn't gained via bonus roll)

[wintry heart]

Yes, you’ve only get protection if you’ve looted it with the bonus rolls

[woeful wren]

ty

[raw frost]

We have 2 bonus rolls next week and 1 extra if you dont pick item from vault i think

I believe

[muted kindle]

wait does it actually show for other people 😂

[dark roost]

what is our damage profile like? i can sustain 220k dps on 5 targets as assass but cant get anywhere near as sub

[thin sinew]

sub and sustain in the same sentence 💔

[hazy breach]

Keep in mind you have execute as assa on those dummies

Which aint gonna be active at all times in practice

[dark roost]

that is almost certainly it

thank you. one quick other question - since dance and blades are naturally unsynced - do i hold dance for 10s, or hold blades for 10s?

[hazy breach]

You dont dance on cooldown

You dance with sectech

[karmic harbor]

is there a way to sim with the .5 talents?

do i need to download simulationcraft

[hazy breach]

Yes there are ways, but you can also just wait

[karmic harbor]

ptr=1 in the expert mode section

thankyou ghost of eleem past

[thin sinew]

people waiting in 2026 pah

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-crash-out-angry-gif-2286608666183060999

[raw frost]

So dance with sectec always

Due to dmg in aoe

Or st as well

[dusky yacht]

You always do sectec on cooldown immediately after dance, this can be macro'd, altho it's wise to also bind dance seperately

AoE or ST doesn't matter

[fiery fog]

btw how would the gameplay loop change with the upcoming changes?
does it stay roughly the same? (just no premed?)

[hazy breach]

Exactly the same besides no premed

[graceful osprey]

I am ready for another week of vault disappointment

[crystal bone]

no premed meaning no apex shinanigans now?

apex optimization*

[hazy breach]

The only thing premed changes is the opener

[fathom adder]

how do you play the second boss in caverns with the adds you need to cross? just wait at the boss until it is near enough to the other one? run out and "steer" it? both feels weird for me

[dark roost]

ik, but when blades is coming up ive got a choice to do dance+sectech, or hold both for blades in 10

do i send the dance+tech, or hold both for blades

obv if i send, blades is going to sit on cd for 10s - so its just what one

[obsidian crag]

Hold

[tribal blade]

on reset it'll be even better to hold at that point

[dark roost]

i thought this because of the power of smoke bomb

[tribal blade]

because we're gonna have much more dmg in blades

[dark roost]

but obv im not a sim

[obsidian crag]

Always sync cds.

Always double dance during blades

[dark roost]

yeah im always double dancing

[radiant swift]

tbh very often u can (imo) send dance+stec even in those scenarios esp on end of packs because u will have everything up on the next ones due to normal downtime

• sending a couple more dance+stecs overall

[sudden quarry]

Why does PTR sim tell me to run even lower haste than before?

[empty bobcat]

crit values more now, maybe you have enough haste to fit a 2nd sectec into blades? I think you dont need more haste if thats the case, but I can be wrong

[sudden quarry]

nope, can't be it. I'm on 690ish right now

and it wants to cut 160 from my ring to the crit mastery ring. fucking weird

[dreamy inlet]

didnt check today but raidbots doesnt seem to be on par with the 700 haste stuff (with guidos and after oils for example). always suggest throw haste for mastery

[sharp peak]

that's because the sims never have 700 haste.

[dreamy inlet]

yeah so just dont mind those

[sudden quarry]

yes i know, but now it seems to rate haste even lower

[sharp peak]

what does even lower mean

because the sims before .5 sims had haste at 616

and that's been there

[wintry heart]

the robot is also a robot who can hit buttons faster than a 32 year old dad of 3

[sharp peak]

that's correct

[sudden quarry]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ucVF9f6pD6sAoaXejuLx4y

[barren wedge]

as the new blades buff a lot shadowstrike, would it be worse it to use vanish during blades between the 2 dances for one more shadowtrike ?

[swift tinsel]

Happy Cloud Cover Day!

[sudden quarry]

changing that ring for example would result in under 600

[left ledge]

@hazy breach is it still going to be worth holding the second dance until 2 sec on sectec in blades

Surely we just send the dance right

[junior ether]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sharp peak]

never was

[barren wedge]

we were already sending the dance 8 sec before the end of blade to have its full duration under blade

[left ledge]

Oh really

[sharp peak]

we've always sent second dance with 8 seconds left

[left ledge]

I swear I remember reading some 2 sec sectec thing

[barren wedge]

I remember it was a thing in early TC yes

[left ledge]

Ok well then it don’t matter tyty

[junior ether]

wowhead and icy pages gonna be updated tomorrow with talents and other improtant info right?

i know it's pinned just asking

[sharp peak]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hazy breach]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[sudden quarry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

The sectech thing was insanely hard to do well (as you also want to use the dance at the end of your guidon) whereas this sims the same but is infinitely easier

[swift tinsel]

wowhead has cloud cover in rec talents so should be updated

same with IV

[hazy breach]

Ye think both of them have been updated already, or will be in time for the patch hitting NA

[swift tinsel]

Method slacking

smh

well we get a full 8 hours maintenance

[barren wedge]

doesn't it also affect the vanish for free 7 cp ?

[hazy breach]

Well yeah

[barren wedge]

would we use vanish during blade but between the 2 dances then for 1 extra shadowtrike ?

[fiery fog]

oh nice so just strike into backstabs until full cp?

[void ocean]

i appreciate your enthusiasm

tho its a small price to pay for 6% buff

[fiery fog]

i take it ngl

[limpid sage]

how come we don't take PV with the new Cloud Cover? Still not worth even with the ginormous strikes?

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ZyptoPower-crypto-bullish-zypt0-3qKs2fWAFDCJQmndSt

[fiery fog]

more burst also means

more egg dmg on beloren

less time spent on that horrible boss

i feel like my eyes are getting fried after progging 4 hours mythic beloren

[sudden quarry]

is there a way to include the boes into the droptimizer, or is it only possible by manually adding?

[hazy breach]

Well you have to give up improved fw, which is like 8% on everything physical

[limpid sage]

Ye I'm stupid - just realized PV can't be traded for Veiltouched

so cooked how it's a bottom row talent

drop apex 4 for PV

[swift tinsel]

I actually looked at that and its like a 7% loss lol

[west arch]

Why does the macro use Shadow Dance first and then Shadow Blades?

[fiery fog]

because it doesnt matter as long as sectec is last

[west arch]

Ahh ok

It could be SB and then SD tech

[crystal bone]

im pumped for cloud gameplay

[swift tinsel]

Number Go Up Day is a good day

[crystal bone]

im ready to tell every tank to play around my cloud

[sullen flicker]

so how bad is sub now doing in the raid setup. with asa and outlaw becoming meta suddenly

[swift tinsel]

huh

wym "becoming meta suddenly"

[lilac stag]

Da Fuq

[fiery fog]

ah yes
the 3 outlaw players define the meta

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/truegreen-truegreen7-misinformation-dance-howitfeelsto-gif-13491462743167342124

[sullen flicker]

alr i will concide the outlaw isnt right looking at logs. but assa is doing allot beter now.

[swift tinsel]

sin has been doing well all season if you're looking at boss damage

[spice matrix]

[warm marlin]

Ye it is not good!

[barren wedge]

assa is bis on paladins and was on beloren, but with changes I think sub will be better on beloren at least

[swift tinsel]

was curious about how it would look having clones on big strikes in cloud cover but alas they are not carrying the load lol

even with Rotten

hoping to see the classic wowhead "how much % you gain this patch" post and our 5-6% confuses people when our single target burst goes to the moon

[fiery fog]

"rOgUe Op PlEaSe NeRf" ~ a guy that got one shot by a sub in pvp

[void ocean]

I DIDNT LIKE ASSA ON ONE-PHASE bELOREN, TAKES FCKIN SETUP FOR EGG

fck

sry caps

[weary tree]

Ho man relax

[void ocean]

and had to hold cd for it

[weary tree]

It's just assa

[leaden prairie]

There is a weak aura that changes settings per spec yes

And yes

[void ocean]

i was calm for a second while writing that "b"

[swift tinsel]

anyone else using M33kauras, do conditions just not work in combat or what

[leaden prairie]

Most things can't work

[swift tinsel]

ye kinda figured

[leaden prairie]

It's all secrets

[swift tinsel]

tried messing with it the other day and it worked for just basic cdm reskinning etc but any actual work was broken as soon as I got into combat

even escalating blade stacks on the aura went away as soon as they updated in combat, was annoying

was hoping to full swap off arc

could do sound alerts for all kinds of stuff but had to do it as an invisible text aura lol

[leaden prairie]

Unless you code stuffs to hook onto the CDM you can't track auras with weak auras

[swift tinsel]

oof

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin I need the feels for Paladin prog. Assa or Outlaw now?

[swift tinsel]

outlaw's been growing on me ngl

might 1h craft

[wet robin]

Outlaw is super fun

[fair phoenix]

70 hours maintenance now, uhu!

[lilac stag]

Depends how NA beta test goes

[swift tinsel]

8 more hours woo

[fair phoenix]

so so

[swift tinsel]

just wish KS did damage

[wet robin]

Im just glad sub is going to have situational burst again, excited to see by how much

[crystal bone]

and hit the correct target?

[swift tinsel]

baby steps lmao

[swift tinsel]

what does that have to do with killing spree

[fair phoenix]

nothing

just gigachadding skill

[leaden prairie]

If you can play outlaw it would be better after buff I think

For sure

But it's harder to play than assa especially on that boss

So idk kinda depends right

[warm marlin]

outlaw def theoretically better

if your strat has you doing the ranged soak like me maybe not

maybe mega cope but it kinda feels like assa is even more uptime dependent than sub

you don't really run out of energy ever on 3 targets so you're losing globals any time you're forced out of melee on that fight

[leaden prairie]

Ye well

Don't have that many melees

That you need ranged soaks

Dk and paladins can do it also

[warm marlin]

i wasnt in first day so a healer stole my spot in the melee soak

we only played fury rogue as 2 melee

[leaden prairie]

Gege

[eager latch]

how big of a dps gain is it to switch off of premed

after today's changes

[warm marlin]

like 0.8% or something

[eager latch]

backstabbing to 7 in opener sounds awful bro

damn that's quite a bit

F

[dark roost]

have sims on raidbots been updated for the new changes?

[fair phoenix]

its ok honestly, like 3 backstebs

[grand galleon]

when is NA reset? I dont see vault screenshots so I am assuming still not live ?

[swift tinsel]

8 hours from now

[fair phoenix]

8 hours from now

[swift tinsel]

well, 7 hours 47 mins lol

unless extendo/early

[fair phoenix]

😡

[jade oasis]

i was lowkey gonna skip school to play wow

[fair phoenix]

imagine a game who makes 12 hours maintence every month

[jade oasis]

but

[fair phoenix]

lolol

[jade oasis]

wows up after

so i have to go

[grand galleon]

would like to see the droprate of the upgrade cores

[swift tinsel]

imagine they're like early legion leggo drops

[grand galleon]

is it bad or good? wasnt playing legion

[swift tinsel]

they're probs similar to cata charge drops

if I had to guess

[grand galleon]

well, then I am foked as last 11 runs I dropped no manaflux

[swift tinsel]

could just as easily be guaranteed, will find out later

[lilac stag]

Can play it decently well. Just have a heroic weapon. I figure I’m there for atrophic just rather get as much dps out as possible.

probably going to vault as outlaw this week

[chilly kite]

so this voidcore thing, do you need to kill a boss on mythic to roll on the myth quality bonus roll or any difficulty?

[leaden prairie]

Mythic

[swift tinsel]

each difficulty has its own pool

so ye you'd have to kill on mythic for myth roll

[chilly kite]

so worthless if you don'treally raid mythic cool

[swift tinsel]

not really

if you're doing hc then you get hc rolls

[chilly kite]

don't need anything on hc

[swift tinsel]

can also get 2 additional myth pieces from M+ per week

[chilly kite]

litterly just need mythic gear at this point, but i'm not on the mythic roster because... rogue lol

[swift tinsel]

you can get good myth track loot from m+

[hollow spear]

Get two m+ pieces then

[swift tinsel]

a lot, actually

besides gaze/guidon

[vale osprey]

Quick lil 3 boss (4 if your group is decent) pug then?

[chilly kite]

i have hero track gaze/guidon and myth track puzzlebox

[swift tinsel]

and crown/lura neck

[hollow spear]

Pug first boss mythic

[swift tinsel]

so then you can get 3x myth track from vault and rolls

[hollow spear]

Ez clap

[vale osprey]

Sounds like you're pugging first boss and chimerus and rolling them then

[swift tinsel]

with new system

[chilly kite]

how bad is pug chim myth?

[vale osprey]

Depends, if you start your own group and emphasise the correct things/take a bit of time to form, quite easy

We 1 pulled it this week in a pug, some guy invited who was "5/9 myth" but he kinda stunk, so I just told people not to kick essences, put markers down for where to stack in intermission start and then it was easy

[hazy breach]

Lets think a bit more carefully about our wording the next time

[chilly kite]

jeez my guild can't even kill it organized lol, our ranged don't know what an interrupt button is

[vale osprey]

Just invite people at 275+ who've killed it 1-2 times before and you're golden p much

DK/Warlock in each group, tell em what to do, ez

[fair phoenix]

its ok

if u wanna carry on add part tell rl to put u on group 1 so u can soak the last one before the skips after intermission

adds have extra absorv

[fair phoenix]

make sure have 2 dks , one each group, and use numb poison to delay cast from adds

[chilly kite]

i was being force to use attroph, kept saying i should use mind numb. since our lock always forgets tongues

[fair phoenix]

use numb and thtats it

[chilly kite]

i'll have to see if i'm in raids this week, if not i'll go pug it and hopefully get lucky

[fair phoenix]

rage raid leader and get aura

[warm marlin]

the dungeon rolls are really strong

[chilly kite]

the one night i was in on our chim pulls, our normal rl wasn't there so it was a bit of a cluster fk

[fair phoenix]

numb + tongues

not numr or tongues

[fading saffron]

is sub still looking top for both m+ and raid?

[fair phoenix]

better then assa , but not sure if better then outlaw

[chilly kite]

i think our only talent change is just the 1 hero talent right?

[fair phoenix]

go for sub supremacy

[fading saffron]

so uh oh outlaw time?

[fair phoenix]

´´just´´ but insanely damage increase

have another talents

check pins

.

[chilly kite]

i wonder if they are doing any tuneing we don't know about

[remote rapids]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cedar eagle]

Why would they

They posted a massive itemized patch list, its just a .5 patch these usually run late

[chilly kite]

idk sometimes there is more tuneing in the official notes

can't wait for raid time to be delayed like 40 minutes because of elvui like it is every patch lol

where are all the class changes i don't see them on wowhead or on the browser

[grand galleon]

imagine they fixed deepening shadow for it to be instant...but I guess that is too much from indie company

[chilly kite]

or made it so you could macro guidon and it had no delay lol

[steel horizon]

no premed is gonna feel weird af

[still gazelle]

Wonder if sub is gonna leapfrog Sin again in keys

[eager latch]

in ST for sure

[celest spruce]

why does this ST build have numbing poison instead of atrophic?

[open depot]

To numb us from these questions

[cinder swan]

xD

[dusky yacht]

It's so you slow the attack and casting speed of your enemies so you can reply in the rogue discord while doing keys

[olive canyon]

is there any notification on how long maintenence is for EU

[somber sun]

yeah

3 am to 11 am

[open depot]

11

[somber sun]

realm time

[celest spruce]

lol, n1, but fr, why, its a ST build

[open depot]

To numb us from these questions

[dusky yacht]

Damn I guess you'll have to switch that one talent then

[olive canyon]

thank you

[dusky yacht]

Sorry for any inconvenience

We thank you for having eyes

[cinder swan]

xD

[limpid sage]

with the changes right?

[warm marlin]

yeah thats after changing the apl as well because i got the same result

[dusky yacht]

Big death incoming

[swift tinsel]

yeah

with updated cloud cover, no finality, +rotten+pv

3/4 apex

[limpid sage]

and you've checked the example rotation that it's not doing something funky? I remember playing without apex 4 completely messed with sims before

[wraith zealot]

hi guys i wonder if 659 haste is enough i use my shadow dance twice befre shadowblade run out so i dont know need add bit more haste ?

[still gazelle]

Does the rotation really change with today's changes?

[lilac stag]

Are your Sectech clones in blades? That’s how you know

[warm marlin]

it went from -20% to -7% after fixing it up a bit

[still gazelle]

Wait, that sounds awful lol

[swift tinsel]

apex 4 doesn't have any specific calls in updated apl

[still gazelle]

How does that look?

[warm marlin]

the example rotation looked normal to me

[swift tinsel]

ye same

[warm marlin]

if you dont edit it at all it will just spam strike to activate aa4 when you arent talented into it

not very good

[limpid sage]

exactly that's what I remembered

[swift tinsel]

oh ye I took that part out lol

[dusky yacht]

It looks like backstabbing until 7 cp

[still gazelle]

That does the example opener look like in AOE and ST?

What**

[warm marlin]

in aoe you will just storm to max instead

[uncut oriole]

ST

[swift tinsel]

ye both wowhead and iv are updated for 12.0.5

[spiral steeple]

Is there a summary of what changed? I'm not seeing a before and after

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[spiral steeple]

Dope ty

[still gazelle]

Are people mostly running puzzle box in keys?

[dusky yacht]

I love the li'l guidon icon

[uncut oriole]

Just snuck it's way on there

[dusky yacht]

Backstab to 7 CP (maybe do a li'l guidon)

[limpid sage]

they should really double the chance of this in blades

[lilac stag]

Only poor people without guidon or Chinese gamers pulling the entire dungeon

[cinder swan]

im poor ppl

[still gazelle]

I have both, but had been using guidon so I didn't know

ty

[swift tinsel]

its already 105% at max cp

[lilac stag]

If you’re running organized pulls, pb likely better. For the majority guidon better

[limpid sage]

ye but in blades it's only 3*15% for shadowstrike no?

[lilac stag]

Holding blades kinda bad

[swift tinsel]

its effectively pulling max cp from stacks bc of apex4

[warm marlin]

ye x% chance to giga crit, 45% chance to proc an AA strike clone, 15% to proc a WM clone, and all those independently crit as well

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uncut oriole]

Chat what should I do with the mastery flasks I bought 2 weeks ago

[limpid sage]

oh ye but if you wanna make it proc on strike

[warm marlin]

sell them to devourer dhs

[limpid sage]

https://klipy.com/gifs/gamba-1

[uncut oriole]

[swift tinsel]

ye if you wanna make it just proc on strike you gotta retool a bit

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/destiny-gif-21994457

[spiral steeple]

I'm actually not even made about BS until 7

[swift tinsel]

maybe I sell my soul and go full crit/vers after 700 haste for unholy strikemaxxing

[spiral steeple]

I can pop my haste trinket during that instead of before the fight

[lilac stag]

Why are you using a haste trinket before the fight

[still gazelle]

Can the voidforge be empowered pre-raid?

[swift tinsel]

probably

if you're 5/5 going into today

[still gazelle]

For them big upgrades

[swift tinsel]

the shards are giga easy to get

[still gazelle]

Yeah I'm 5/5

[swift tinsel]

just do delves or lfr for shards

[wintry heart]

Yeah you can just do bountiful delves

[swift tinsel]

or quick m+

[still gazelle]

And for the big upgrade you don't do anything special?

Just that content and bam, bigger dagger?

[wintry heart]

We don’t know yet

I don’t believe

[lilac stag]

No one knows that currency

[swift tinsel]

they drop from the same stuff as manaflux apparently

but the rate is currently unknown

plus preys

but fuck those

[wintry heart]

I’ve gotten two manaflux charges 😂

[swift tinsel]

rip

[lilac stag]

Have you tried playing the game?

[swift tinsel]

my alt dk has gotten like 6-8, rogue maybe 4-5

dh 3 lol

[wintry heart]

I’ve done like 20 keys since I unlocked 4 set

[swift tinsel]

drop rate kinda all over the place so you just gotta game

[lilac stag]

So no

[still gazelle]

Delves seem solid.

[warm marlin]

my main rogue has looted like 14 and another of our raiders has done 80 keys since 4p and gotten 3 total charges

[still gazelle]

Easy resources.

[hazy breach]

Oups, fixed

[wintry heart]

https://tenor.com/view/nick-young-question-marks-what-excuse-me-huh-gif-19938846

[lilac stag]

20 keys is nothing

[swift tinsel]

ye early on one of our mages got 4-5 drops before I got 1 and we got 4pc the same time and were running the same amount of content

[warm marlin]

i hit the 8 cap the first week i got 4p

[fallen mesa]

Will Sub be stronger than Assa?”

[swift tinsel]

I think I've used 2x and am at 4/8 currently

[warm marlin]

and the second i spend one i instantly loot it back

character is catalyst blessed

[lilac stag]

2 1/2 weeks of vaults? W/e.

Do you delves, weekly world, preys, heroic, mythic, etc it all adds up

[swift tinsel]

it is truly rng though

and you can absolutely get cucked

[wintry heart]

Yes I’ve also been maxing delve slots and doing raid

[lilac stag]

It’s like farming legendaries in legion.

[chilly kite]

i've been sitting on the 8 cap for over a week, just nothing left to catalyst

[wintry heart]

I just think 10 delves, 12 keys and 4 raid bosses should have netted maybe one Manaflux core

[still gazelle]

Yes, this.

I like playing both so idc. Just wanna do more dmg in keys.

[swift tinsel]

I've gotten maybe 1 manaflux from raid after multiple weeks, that's been the worst source for me

[lilac stag]

I’ve gotten 2 from special assignment weekly wq

[swift tinsel]

by far

[fading saffron]

With stat prios looking like its all Crit/Haste now, we can pretty much play whatever for the most part, right? Just change weps and trinkets?

[timid rose]

are catalysts the new valor stones? either you have 0 or you are capped

[still gazelle]

Is that just for ST?

[warm marlin]

they seem to have the same drop rate from arena matches as they do raid bosses and dungeons

they drop omega fast in there

[swift tinsel]

yeah I've heard that pvp is crazy high drop rate

[fallen mesa]

with the buff on sub is gonna do more dmg no?

[worldly hinge]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[chilly kite]

one thing i did notice, you get alot more of the catalyst charges if you gained IO

[vale osprey]

This seems like mad speculation to say confidently

[still gazelle]

But you can prove it

With feelings

[vale osprey]

You just get a fuckton of em from playing the game idk I'm sitting on so many and I catalyse all the time

[south pelican]

Do you guys ever just sit and press backstab waiting on dance and ST to come off cd

[swift tinsel]

I mean you do or your don't

[manic ice]

I did 30 keys, only got 1

[swift tinsel]

tons of people on either side of the spectrum

[south pelican]

I don’t believe you

[dry flame]

Any NA vaults? I wanna prime myself for tomorrow

[swift tinsel]

Maintenance

full day

[dry flame]

Damn, well, I didn't miss any at least

[swift tinsel]

check back in seven hours

[manic ice]

sorry ur right, did 36 keys, only got 1

[wintry heart]

How long until delayed

[swift tinsel]

yes

[manic ice]

didnt start doing 10s till after i got 4pc

[dry flame]

Sub buffs so large, they need an extra day

[bronze hatch]

curious to see what ds does to parses now that we'll have a mark to offset the bugs

[swift tinsel]

idk with cata charges a lot of people think their experience/drop rate is the same as everyone elses when you can absolutely get rng hell'd on them

[lilac stag]

Nothing because it’s a pain in the ass to min max

[bronze hatch]

1 cata drop

[vale osprey]

Considering trickster is going sicko mode idk if it'll be that much better

[dry flame]

I think @dusky yacht ran over 42 nexus runs for one of the rings

[somber sun]

Is deathstalker way better in raids now or just go trickster?

[swift tinsel]

trickster

ez

with cloud cover burst we go brrr

[bronze hatch]

its already pretty marginal, but ds does squeak by in st
which is no fight this tier

[dusky yacht]

Yep

[vale osprey]

Yes, and trickster is getting buffed

[bronze hatch]

in aoe

[vale osprey]

So DS stinker as usual

[dry flame]

[vale osprey]

No?

[swift tinsel]

in single target

and aoe

[dusky yacht]

I got Occlusion Mythic in vault week one or two, then had to do 42 xenas runs for Omission.

[vale osprey]

It's getting buffed in everything

[dusky yacht]

[swift tinsel]

way bigger burst buff in st

[bronze hatch]

https://tenor.com/qkpTz8rciOL.gif

[swift tinsel]

bc strike crits

[bronze hatch]

might even push it over ds

[swift tinsel]

are orbital strikes like early alpha

[swift tinsel]

and considering omega haste ds was only what, 4% ahead in pure st before cloud cover stuff

[chilly kite]

i don't do a ton of keys, I tend to only do keys if ima gain rating, and sitting on max charges. but nobody knows what the algorithm is for them, so i could be right, could be wrong, we'll never know lol

[swift tinsel]

trickster > ds

[bronze hatch]

p much, they even give us a dedicated button now and everything, rip lol

[meager canopy]

Hey, have you done any crafting to change your stats since we're going to play with crit, haste, and mastery?

[wintry heart]

I wish this DS icon would leave my name. I fixed my react on the original post and it’s still here

[vale osprey]

No one has yet, because the patch is not live anywhere yet.

[lilac stag]

@vale pine pls fix

dk enjoyer needs ds removal.

[meager canopy]

Yeah, but that will be the case tomorrow, so we'll have to do it anyway.

[hushed roost]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[vale pine]

done

[cedar eagle]

Take a shot everytime someone asks whats the best spec today

[timid rose]

but i'm working 🙁

[lilac stag]

Devourer

[cedar eagle]

Can u give me the assa rogue icon and not whatever i have

Lemme just have sbs

[golden thunder]

what is the problem with NA server, should they not have the patch already live?

classic blizzard?

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

Blizzard will look at this and say "Buff this man!"

[fiery fog]

wait where can i change my icon on the name

[cedar eagle]

Hello am banned? Game not loading for me? Anyone else

[lilac stag]

Literally 8 hour scheduled maintenance

[vale pine]

there is no sbs icon

[wintry heart]

My goat. I promise to not troll in here for at least the next 30 minutes

[lilac stag]

This is how we tell who has read the pins

[timid rose]

~1 hour early, on time, 1 hour extended, 2 hour extended... what are the odds? 😄

[fiery fog]

i dont scroll down on pins man

[lilac stag]

Your loss

[wintry heart]

Sneaky guess is 3 hours early

[lilac stag]

They’re there for a reason

[vale pine]

well there is no bonespike icon anymore ^^

[swift tinsel]

jebaited

[vale pine]

oh wait there is a sbs role

hmm

[swift tinsel]

hmge

seems I have one

[lilac stag]

I had the sbs role it turned into robot

[swift tinsel]

I don't know what to believe anymore

[vale pine]

we just don't have it in the role selector anymore

[fair wedge]

still wanna go into dance with 0cp on trickster tmrrw?

[cedar eagle]

How do i have

:)

[vale pine]

but its in onboarding

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah its still in Channels and Roles

[fiery fog]

doesnt even work grr

[hazy breach]

Per the #subtlety-faq

[fair wedge]

a yyy sry mixed up

[vale pine]

only rotational change is to backstab before dance in the opener

[fiery fog]

maybe because i had the assa icon kekw

[vale pine]

because no premed

[swift tinsel]

the extra backstabs are there for the folks that miss flag and rupture globals

[fair wedge]

hold pbox till blades or js use 2s before pull and waste it on 2 backstabs?

[swift tinsel]

also that p much kills the strike+Guidon macro doesn't it

[timid rose]

hhmm, if only I knew how to be sneaky

[swift tinsel]

for whoever was using that

[lilac stag]

The rollercoaster that is NA downtime on Tuesday.

[swift tinsel]

I'm waiting for the flood of people after they see big bongo burst from new cloud cover lol

[barren wedge]

do we still press vanish without premed ? maybe during blades for extra shadowtrike between dances ?

[timid rose]

yeah, wow maintenance sucks, means i have to work instead

[lilac stag]

This is how we get turn off others spell effects added

[vale pine]

yes, you vanish between dances in blades

[lilac stag]

I’ve never been so hopeful

[swift tinsel]

still funny how that isn't in yet after how long now

lmao

[placid coral]

So I’m pressing guidon on my first shadow strike and then I’m using blades and techniques?

[vale osprey]

We're starting our Belo prog tonight after my guild kills Crown, so I'll see what Sub intermission dam looks like from me today vs tomorrow lmao

[somber sun]

it wasnt as strong as intended 😢

[chilly kite]

we get to play cloud cover for 1 day, then it gets hotfixed and nerfed prolly

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

Not really after the changes

[swift tinsel]

we'll get aura nerfed just watch

instead of targeted

[vale osprey]

Since we're not using premed, you'll Strike, backstab, backstab (guidon) then continue as normal

[lilac stag]

Maybe they can nerf our cleave more

[swift tinsel]

I really hope not though bc its really only 5-6% overall which is kinda necessary

[fiery fog]

potent powder removed
bp dmg reduced by 20%

backstab deals 5% more dmg

as compensation

[chilly kite]

can't be having rogues in top 10 on a boss fight now... thats a no no

[vale osprey]

In a vacuum sure, but our burst window getting 20% bigger is HUGE on a lot of fights lmao

[swift tinsel]

doing this before cleave season was so annoying

[wintry heart]

Caverns boss and second boss in nxp gonna get shredded

[lilac stag]

bliz trolling rogue at its finest

[swift tinsel]

well ye burst was kinda our only thing and that was taken away

and see where we landed after that

[cedar eagle]

@vale pine does this mean i can get trickster removed from my tags

[swift tinsel]

like aoe blind its just us getting our toys back

[placid coral]

What should my opener look like instead? Am I no longer waiting a sec after guidon to dance?

[vale osprey]

I send a message 1 one message after this one you replied to explaining

Any of the sub giga brains can tell me I'm wrong but p sure that logic stands

[vale pine]

you can always add/remove with a reaction in the pin

[swift tinsel]

you still wait one second after guidon to dance

they didn't update Deepening

[vale osprey]

Yeah, you just won't do it right after your shadowstrike as you won't be at max CP then

[swift tinsel]

and if they did and didn't tell us that would also be a classic blizzard move

[vale pine]

dust hater role still exists

[fiery fog]

dust was goated looking back at it

[swift tinsel]

it is a deep-seated hatred for some I guess haha

[vale osprey]

You'll guidon on the global that gets you to full CP - then blades dance

[obsidian crag]

where is this located?

[chilly kite]

how amazing would that be if they did tho,

[lilac stag]

Change this to please

[vale pine]

#subtlety message

[vale pine]

could change it to Cloud cover ^^

when on pc

[lilac stag]

The people want the Pepe cloud cover

[obsidian crag]

test

[void ocean]

dust was the biggest pos talent that ever existed and now it resides where it belongs

[fiery fog]

the rogues yearn for the smoke

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/montez-ford-angelo-dawkins-street-profits-we-want-the-smoke-smokey-gif-15305113

[fiery fog]

dust was one of the most unique talents blizzard could have given us

[alpine kestrel]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[obsidian crag]

i dont know how to remove the outlaw role i have, help?

[fiery fog]

dust wasnt the problem

the cooldown timers we had were

[vale pine]

like this?

[swift tinsel]

having a 1.5min and 2min cd on the same spec

criminal

[fiery fog]

yea

that was the sole reason why ppl hated dust

[swift tinsel]

and as a solution it was wildly powerful

[vale pine]

or you want the main outlaw role switched too

[alpine kestrel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[obsidian crag]

i think i got it

[swift tinsel]

the ability to pull cd timers to fit fight timers

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/just-because-you-are-unique-doesn't-mean-you-are-useful-gif-11886155805807057423

[swift tinsel]

vs just aligning them when they could naturally

[swift tinsel]

esp when timers changed based on gearing/strat

[fiery fog]

youre hating the wrong thing here

[swift tinsel]

just an insane power move

[fiery fog]

blades and flag being different cd timers when you want them to align were the problem

[void ocean]

true, maybe the dust woudlnt be shit if we didnt have 6 spells with different cds

[still gazelle]

Fuu, in your professional feelycrafted opinion, how do you see these buffs today affecting mythic plus representation? With the last set of buffs, assassination seemed to become more popular. Do you think Sub will pull ahead in higher keys?

[wintry heart]

How long until slow mode?

[fiery fog]

dust was a solution to the problem

[velvet jay]

is the 700 haste breakpoint with or without buffs/consumables?

[swift tinsel]

ye it just had the tangential benefit of being obscenely good

as soon as you could shift cd timers

[still gazelle]

Woth

[fiery fog]

i mean

[still gazelle]

With*

[fiery fog]

every fight had some kind of dmg amp

[velvet jay]

thanks

[fiery fog]

and we could just send cds whenever

while being tuned really good

back in df

[obsidian crag]

this "is the 700 haste breakpoint with or without buffs/consumables?" should be added to FAQ imo

[vale pine]

sub/outlaw def. will see more play now

[void ocean]

yea and ur every burst window was different to the point of having an excel charts of cd usage

[swift tinsel]

huehue

Gapplebees

[void ocean]

which is exactly what i needed during all that hell on Smolderon

[fiery fog]

smolderon was one of the easier fights for this imo

since you just had to assign yourself vanish cds for the interm

we even had 2 vanish
this shit was broken as hell man

wdym you can just erase 1 min off your cds?

[void ocean]

iirc sub was still worse than assa that season

[south pelican]

Is our rotation exactly the same with this patch? What’s this smokebomb thing I’m hearing, we ain’t pressing distract are we

[void ocean]

it was just played on Smold cause of timers

[fiery fog]

it was insanly nice for tmog runs as well
sprint, speed shroud, vanish, sprint for 36 sec of 100% movement speed buff

[still gazelle]

I know that the answer is to run personal Sims, but after swapping back to assassination I was prioritizing crit and haste with the sprinkling of mastery. Do you think that mythic plus stats will be still skewed towards mastery and crit after hitting a certain break point? Or will it mostly be crit focused? Would I enjoyed about assassination. Was using the same stats for single Target and AOE. Curious if it'll be more like that now with subtlety.

[void ocean]

i played it on Nymue as well to practice for Smold

[fiery fog]

it was at the start

[still gazelle]

I just hate simming multiple sets of gear.

[fiery fog]

when ppl didnt know how to play dust

[swift tinsel]

on overall sub was huge

[fiery fog]

suddenly sub was better

[steel zinc]

After assa nerfs you played sub. Also sub on tindral

And fyrakk

[swift tinsel]

ye sin just looked really good at the outset bc it was strong post-rework

as it was the only finished spec post-rework lol

[void ocean]

i think they were equal on tindral, just u picked sub if u wanted more dmg on roots innit

[swift tinsel]

and was getting PI/wft

[hazy breach]

Sub was probably better/equal even before the nerfs

Assa just looked insane on logs because nothing was attributed to augs correctly

[swift tinsel]

ye true

the aug wildcard log days

[void ocean]

blizz pulled that classic double whammy on assa cause we were getting PI then u get nerfed then u lose PI xD

classic

[fiery fog]

i hate pi with a passion

being reliant on other ppls cds

[vale osprey]

Do we know with the coin system coming, if we are unable to get myth drops from dungeons/raids that we already owned before patch. E.g. if I roll Vorasius but already have the wrist at 6/6 myth, can I drop them from coin?

[hazy breach]

The only thing that matters for the coin is the items youve gotten from previous coins at that same difficulty

[vale osprey]

Thanks, this makes them a lot less of an instant send in raid for me then

[swift tinsel]

just gotta get all the gear you already got out of the way

or highroll the item you want first try

[vale osprey]

Literally

[swift tinsel]

no in between

[fiery fog]

just get the item you want 1st try

problem solved

[marble comet]

!sim

[swift tinsel]

that part is gonna be frustrating but hey comes with the territory

[fiery fog]

alleria is actually so nice to bonus roll on

[swift tinsel]

would be nice if it included vault

[fiery fog]

4 items and 2 are really good

legs and neck

feet are good too nvm

[still gazelle]

With the coins, is any item guaranteed? Or can you still just get gold like with the old bonus rolls?

[fiery fog]

3/4 good items

[hazy breach]

You always get an item

[marble comet]

how to sim as sub?

[swift tinsel]

only gear from rolls

no gold

[still gazelle]

Oh that's pretty sick then.

[swift tinsel]

yeah

overall its a nice system

[still gazelle]

People will complain, but it's a lot better than the jokes we all used to spam "Tee hee I rolled bonus gold"

[swift tinsel]

don't get item from raid normally? not have it in your vault? roll

[vale osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

You get the trinket

[swift tinsel]

I'll be rolling pit and npx/aa

[fiery fog]

i just get the neck from vault

and dont need to use it on alleria

[wintry heart]

Me looking at Xalatath

[timid rose]

you can still get a duplicate if you picked it up from the vault or got it as a drop, but eventually you can get all the items from a dungeon at myth if you give it enough weeks

[vale osprey]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fJvxugW3ohWwy7J759KPjL

Obviously this doesn't have the new weights for crit we want in but yeah AA/Pit seems really good for me

[timid rose]

going to need to figure out which dungeon makes the most sense to use the rolls on to get hte items you need.

[vital flax]

Probably pit

[wintry heart]

Pit or skyreach makes the most sense for me via droptomizer

[swift tinsel]

I'm pretty much just targeting rings, pit is nice for ring/dagger/neck/legs

[vital flax]

Everything is crit haste in there

[swift tinsel]

depending on your current gear

droptimizer doesn't really take haste breakpoint into consideration

[vale osprey]

Yeah, I have crafted belt but if I drop the crit/haste belt I can craft back instead

[swift tinsel]

unless that's been updated

[vale osprey]

Nah it doesn't I'm always looking out for the haste BP tho

[swift tinsel]

I personally don't really sim anymore for the most part bc I'm odd

I know how much haste I have and can get from which pieces or by swapping gems

[hazy breach]

Pit / skyreach /nexus point is what i would recommend

Or chim m if thats available

[swift tinsel]

once we start myth chim that'll be my raid roll

[hazy breach]

But obviously depends on what you have already

[swift tinsel]

since we don't do myth alleria/lura

[light hull]

All my crafted gear is Crit+haste, should I switch them to Haste+Mastery? Is there any Crit/Master cap we need to get?

[timid rose]

yeah, those 3 wer on the list, it's more just comparing it against my current items, and whatever the vault deigns to grace me with 🙂

[warm marlin]

surely today is the day i replace the renown trinket

[vale osprey]

START hmmmge?

[swift tinsel]

but I'll be getting myth tier slots from vault, if I'm desperate for those I'll roll Seat since it has every tier slot

[swift tinsel]

yes, start

we're a 2 night, 4hr per week guild

[vale pine]

[swift tinsel]

just finished aotc last week

[timid rose]

i've only had one vault on the rogue since i just swapped over to it like 2 weeks ago ><

so lots of opportunities

[swift tinsel]

I've gotten my hc guidon/gaze from vault bc they absolutely refuse to drop

this week I can finally start taking myth slots again lol

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

unironically im getting owned by being brought to prog bosses

my vault is filled with garbage

[hazy breach]

Higher ilvl though, saving crests

[warm marlin]

no because i missed 3 weeks in a row and had to take key vault anyway

[swift tinsel]

once I get myth items I have almost I think 300 myth crests I can just full send

[hazy breach]

[lilac stag]

Maybe W if you didn’t spend currency on silly sockets

[swift tinsel]

or this week I get hc alleria neck and I can swap even more gear to crit

[warm marlin]

i didnt actually have a good place to socket until this week

[swift tinsel]

can you socket crafted belt with vault socket?

[warm marlin]

my very first vault early season i put it on crafted bracers

[swift tinsel]

I've never actually tried

[warm marlin]

and yes

[swift tinsel]

nice nice

[fair phoenix]

dungeon dg slice and st patchwerk 5 min

take out buffs and keep only lust

[swift tinsel]

though atm probs better to take bonus roll from vault than socket

[dense geode]

Whats the % diff on trickster vs DS on pure ST?

was it like 3%?

[fair phoenix]

right now go for trickster

ds is dead

[swift tinsel]

I need to re-sim crafted bracers vs hc socketed vora

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dense geode]

i understand that but not what im askin about

[spice matrix]

guys remember 1100 haste Deathstalker?

[strange chasm]

Well atleast we are the same stats as sin rogue now lmao.

[swift tinsel]

and outlaw

[vale pine]

yep

[swift tinsel]

if you go crit-heavy

[lilac stag]

That’s now your outlaw set

[fair phoenix]

u was asking whats the past % before this changes?

3

[dense geode]

yes just the % if we where to be

3? ok ty

[fair phoenix]

now fk that lol, trickster gigachad

[honest tinsel]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[magic coral]

trickster is the best, i think people forget about the unlimited tricks of the trade. its so nice never having to worry about threat seemingly

[vale pine]

the infinite tricks can backfire if the tank dies

and the entire dungeon is suddenly pulled

[swift tinsel]

first pull algethar huehuehue

[vale pine]

[lilac stag]

Sounds like a Fatebound outlaw enjoyer

[swift tinsel]

an early tank death there is quite funny

as they all beeline for the entrance

[magic coral]

true, that happens and everyone always get real confused lol

[swift tinsel]

best is when a group doesn't understand why that happens

and you just get to sit quietly and say nothing

👀

[cedar sapphire]

Lol 2 days ago I decided to try assa from sub, so I recrafted into crit/haste - got puzzle box and straight after I tried it out I read sub is getting buffed tomorrow 🙁 lucky we enjoy crit

[magic coral]

I don't hate outlaw it just feels off. I like pressing ambush/SS so i liked hidden opp but you just can't plat that now

[dire forum]

TLDR is this huge aoe buff?

Trickster

Cloud Cover has been updated – Activating Shadow Blades creates a cloud of smoke for 10 seconds, allowing attacks from within the cloud to apply Fazed, stacking up to 2 additional times. Effect persists for 10 seconds after leaving the cloud.

[lilac stag]

TLDR

[halcyon roost]

I wouldnt even go tricks anymore

30% dr from blinded mobs is op with aoe blind

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

Ranged specs continue to feast

[fiery fog]

this is the bigger meme

[void ocean]

was just about to comment this

[swift tinsel]

was reading the details on that one as you posted it lmao

[void ocean]

how the fuck they came to a conclusion that unh dk aoe needs a buff... i mean i dont mind cause im kinda maining it this season but... cmon

[lilac stag]

MM dead…. Just a 10% ST buff

[swift tinsel]

I refuse to believe the MM changes are that much of a nerf

[harsh gale]

I'm in the same boat

[magic coral]

why tf did they buff the hero spec of the expac again its literally top in almost every situation

[lilac stag]

Need to access paywall for real numbers.

[toxic igloo]

@magic coral which?

[magic coral]

Devourer

[thorny ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flint parrot]

wtf

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[dusky yacht]

I'm not gonna lie man I'm just smiling at this shit at this point

[vale pine]

tuning seems like

a lot of things do more damage

but i don't think it rly considers how good a spec is

[sonic raven]

will the simcraft/raidbot be updated for new builds after launch?

[vale pine]

yes

you can use ptr=1 in expert mode header before that

[vale pine]

its best to wait for reset to get the most accurate results

[swift tinsel]

Roughly 5.5 hours from now

[vale pine]

na beta tester can then check weather or not there are some last minute changes

[swift tinsel]

checking crit dmg as soon as I can get on lol

[raw frost]

We still need 700 haste right

[lusty gazelle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[raw frost]

Btw if you use trink with shadow blades you will always be able to use 2x sectec

[vale pine]

yes

[raw frost]

So its ok xd

[sharp seal]

so how will it work? for example I've upgraded Vorasius myth dagger then got Beloren. Do I have to spend another upgrade item for a new dager? anyone got the info?

[raw frost]

I guess haste is more for the talent that converts it to duration

[vale pine]

you need a fully upgraded mythic or heroic weapon, and can upgrade it with the item then

you won't upgrade a heroic weapon

so either your crafted, or any mythic weapon you got (dagger ofc)

[dusky yacht]

How often can we upgrade?

Like weekly?

[vale pine]

You can, in theory, just get an additional reroll token from vault

and then roll 3 times in e.g. skyreach

skyreach has a dagger

[raw frost]

Ye bis dagger

Haste mast

[sharp seal]

ye, which is the same as Beloren theoreticaly

[cinder swan]

what if i just craft both daggers

[chilly kite]

so you use the reroll in the dungeon?

[raw frost]

Yes

[dusky yacht]

Craft is 285

[cinder swan]

myth is 289 not much differance

[dusky yacht]

Well sure but that's the answer to your question

[somber sun]

raid would be way better nah

[sharp seal]

but raid roll is 2 coins and m+ is 1

[chilly kite]

i'm trying to figure out how we get the myth track reroll from dungeons

like how we use it, just end of an M+ ?

[swift tinsel]

ye

after chest open

[keen dome]

Have we figured out the cool upgrade item yet. Is it all solved. Is all knowledge known.

[vale pine]

the loot pool is also small

[chilly kite]

ah okay, so prolly just use the reroll tokens all in sky reach till getting myth dagger

[vale pine]

pit is another decent/good dungeon for loot

[warm marlin]

we are gonna beta test it when it comes up

and find out

[chilly kite]

or nexus point for rings?

[keen dome]

damn, is it not up yet

smh, I went to work and everything.

[vale pine]

nexus point is good too ye

[swift tinsel]

ye I'm gonna try and run a pit asap after looking into cloud cover stuff

[warm marlin]

8 hour maintenance

[formal marlin]

Are you guys just natty upgrading dagger with new patch? Even though outlaw might become a thing?

[chilly kite]

can the reroll hit a myth track item you already have?

[keen dome]

damn

[swift tinsel]

also would be kinda fun if you could spend multiple tokens per run

and just rapid fire them lol

[vale pine]

but the dagger has vers ^^

[swift tinsel]

pit dagger is haste/crit

[keen dome]

that'd own

but I think it might even be one per dungeon per week? I don't know I might be making shit up

[vale pine]

nexus point one is haste vers

[swift tinsel]

lil krik's beetle stabber

[raw frost]

Skyreachdagger

[swift tinsel]

I'm hoping its like the old rolls where you get one chance per kill/dungoen clear

[raw frost]

Is the best xd

[vale pine]

you can't get a item twice

[keen dome]

Same

[swift tinsel]

once per dungeon per week would feel pretty bad

[vale pine]

so you can basically get all items from a m+ dungeon

[swift tinsel]

esp if the goal is targeted loot

[keen dome]

Actually, I think you CAN once you've exhausted all other items.

[grand tapir]

we're effectively capped on crests right now so all these myth items are essentally heroic for quite a while

[vale pine]

if you take one extra roll from vault

[fair phoenix]

u do keys fuu?

[vale pine]

and spend this and next week

[chilly kite]

so if i already have the haste ring on myth track, if i reroll in nexus i can't get that same ring correct

[fair phoenix]

im thinking to use on aAA

[vale pine]

i got mythic guidon, unsure tbh

[chilly kite]

with my luck i would end up getting the same fking ring i already have

[fair phoenix]

we receive the rolls how?

just logging?

i know the upgrade need to the forge stuff

[vale pine]

either gamble on gaze

[keen dome]

Buying hem from Decimus in Voidstorm

for gold, marlvins or crests

[vale pine]

or get quite high chance of an upgrade from m+

need to see what i need

[keen dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486284970806083584/1496026085446520832/8mkqhpiaidwg1.png?ex=69e8625d&is=69e710dd&hm=fc2fe27033cc801d6b3e4cc0f3565153a80e18835f6eec9f4391a8c3b15b97f8&

[fair phoenix]

we need to do something?

[keen dome]

Yes, you probably need to do something

[solar glen]

Hi Just a short question.
Sometimes after my opener i can Just Use one Eviscerate, sometimes Two. It should always be 2 Times or? Is it because of the Macro ST/SB/SD?

[somber sun]

but what if I don't own a single bis item from raid table ?

[fair phoenix]

[keen dome]

It's most likely the Apex talent proccing due to Shadow Technique stacks

[fair phoenix]

good table baby

[solar glen]

So its just the Proc and not a 100% of casting 2 Finisher after Opener

[keen dome]

You'll typically be able to cast a finisher twice on opener due to SHT stacking very fast with lust, etc. But that's most likely what it is, just the Apex working.

[thick lark]

is sub still the top spec?

[solar glen]

Thank you. Love u

[wintry heart]

Its the bottom spec

[keen dome]

no that'd be a dom rogue, not a sub rogue.

[thick lark]

nice.

[stuck lance]

I assume outlaw is pulling ahead now with like 13% buff today

[keen dome]

Maybe!

[woeful quartz]

Fun, I have to change my stat weights again.

[tulip badger]

why are we no longer taking Premed?

[woeful quartz]

Not enjoying needing to change it.

[harsh gale]

Outlaw #1 now

[tranquil sorrel]

Shadowstrike OP with rotten and the new changes, premed feels too good and blizz wanted to makle sure they made rogue a bit les enjoyable

[keen dome]

You don't really need to change anything

Just get the haste breakpoint and stack Crit/Mastery

[vale pine]

Lets see, what would be the best option for me:
I need: Weapon, shoulders, back, hands, legs, boots, rings and one trinket

hmm

[tranquil sorrel]

Cloack

100% cloak I love cloacks

[woeful quartz]

It feels weird having to need little vers after so many years of vers/mastery priority.

[vale pine]

skyreach sounds rly good