Its genuine insanity
#subtlety
lucid jackal
chrome palm
guy doesnt my logic make a little bit of sense here
lucid jackal
You wont catch a single person in the devourer discord saying "idk guys maybe we get nerfed after this 12.0.5 patch"
leaden prairie
Ye does make a good point tbf
dry flame
Oh, I thought everyone asked for nerfs sarcastically
leaden prairie
They were so precise with the other tuning
lucid jackal
Or the UDK patch "Guys idk... maybe they finally nerf us"
leaden prairie
And then this lol
lucid jackal
Who the actual fuck
tribal blade
the interesting thing there is all those bars are actually kinda all in line
lucid jackal
In what world
tribal blade
with each other
leaden prairie
the interesting thing there is all those bars are actually kinda all in line
Because that's points not damage
It's
leaden prairie
Idk what that graph even shows really
tribal blade
yeah that's a bit weird
leaden prairie
I think it's mostly popularity
lucid jackal
Ppl need to move with confidence
tepid trellis
Nerf mm
lucid jackal
Yeah rogue is getting a buff
short radish
are ppl asking, expecting, BEGGING for nerfs
i mean s2 undermine we got nerf'd to the ground in week -1
lucid jackal
fuck yeah we need it
leaden prairie
Well he selected max so
leaden prairie
It's even worse I guess
short radish
to the bottom of the meters
lucid jackal
QUit moving like a fucking beta
leaden prairie
Kinda just random data
tribal blade
i'm very excited to have burst again
leaden prairie
I'm quite excited guy
First time in my life I actually do real progression as outlaw
tribal blade
violet palm
Yes sir, we are excited, sir!
empty bobcat
sub is among the low end of parses though
lucid jackal
mfers in here begging blizzard to nerf rogue and then wonder why rogue is shit
YOU GUYS NEED TO BE ALPHA MALES
leaden prairie
so i don't have to play outlaw
I'm going to gap every single sub and assa players out here
chrome palm
bro is posted in the SUB channel about being an alpha male
tribal blade
YOU GUYS NEED TO BE ALPHA MALES
sorry i'm big beta energy
tepid trellis
Im thinking of taking an extended break after prog is over dont Think ive ever been this bored playing wow
tribal blade
I'm going to gap every single sub and assa players out here
i believe it
empty bobcat
you cant filter dps on m+ for all dungeons
hollow spear
Idk, the "alpha males" I see on YouTube are kinda cringe, do I really have to be like that?
vestal relic
no zac
tribal blade
well i practiced trickster outlaw a bunch during prepatch haha
vestal relic
you have to sandbag
alpine wraith
i liked old ks
dry flame
mfers in here begging blizzard to nerf rogue and then wonder why rogue is shit
People have been conditioned here to be on a death bed.
I am actually concerned for the moment we are actually meta
vestal relic
play fatebound still
alpine wraith
letting jesus take the wheel
leaden prairie
I will not sandbag
vestal relic
ks bad
alpine wraith
this one is not as fun
leaden prairie
I will be top damage on my lura kill
When you open the log
You will see outlaw on top
lucid jackal
Idk, the "alpha males" I see on YouTube are kinda cringe, do I really have to be...
The alternative is you can be a little beta bitch boy saying shit like "guys.... think about undermine when they nerfed the spec in pre season (and then we were still the best rogue spec" "guys remember Dragonflight season 1 when they nerfed us its gonna happen again"
STOP BEING WEAK
IVE HAD ENOUGH
dry flame
I will be top damage on my lura kill
You go Zac
leaden prairie
I will annihilate that boss
violet palm
Pin that
leaden prairie
Like you have never seen before
chrome palm
uhhh i dont wanna think of that one for outlaw
empty bobcat
1 outlaw in top dps parses on caverns
visual kettle
Like you have never seen before
empty bobcat
dry flame
Legion, my beloved
tepid trellis
FCK outlaw
hollow spear
Please get outlaw nerfed zac
leaden prairie
No
hollow spear
I don't want to play it
leaden prairie
They can't nerf outlaw there is litteraly only one outlaw player
dry flame
Fucking love that guy
Tomel vis 
hollow spear
what DO you want to play colo
Aug
leaden prairie
And they do tuning by popularity still
tepid trellis
I Will get outlaw nerfed just to spite zac
leaden prairie
Give me that one stealthi
First time I prog a real boss as outlaw
Just
Give me that one
hollow spear
Haven't actually tried the new law tbh, maybe I like it
tepid trellis
No
leaden prairie
Bro
hollow spear
I just can't have zac winning tho
vestal relic
yeah zac only one outlaw playing no need to buff right
tepid trellis
Im bored so. So should you be
leaden prairie
I don't ask for much stealthi
hollow spear
Where blade flurry nerf?
alpine wraith
outlaw was very good in prepatch of legion
vestal relic
i agre proging outlaw would be fun
leaden prairie
Wasnt born back then
tepid trellis
Im gonna have to put the spinning seal Music on my other screen while progging lura
alpine wraith
it was also good in eh
leaden prairie
Play outlaw so you don't get bored stealthi
molten citrus
mfers in here begging blizzard to nerf rogue and then wonder why rogue is shit
where and when have you ever seen this bro 
tepid trellis
Play outlaw so you don't get bored stealthi
Never
hollow spear
where and when have you ever seen this bro <:kekw3:907372904130441217>
Not sure if guy was still in command when he typed that, something else took over 
leaden prairie
tepid trellis
Haven specced outlaw since DF. And im Never doing it again
alpine wraith
i think i did it on some of the sl seasons to check some things
leaden prairie
Coming from downtown
hollow spear
Calling it now: zac will pump too hard on the law, which will get the entire trickster tree nerfed, which will also affect sub
molten citrus
Absolute nuke
leaden prairie
Sl s3
leaden prairie
https://tenor.com/view/league-of-legends-dumbo-drinking-water-t1-drinking-dumbo-...
Watch me trickz
alpine wraith
os that vodka
leaden prairie
Also I'm getting alleria trinket in vault Wednesday to complete my gear guys
Mark my words
hollow spear
That's the tears of his enemies
chrome palm
do you like that alleria trinket zac
alpine wraith
is alleria trinket decent for us now i wonder
hollow quest
I will ping all of you in this chat rn
Bet 
leaden prairie
100% garanted loot
alpine wraith
as we get more trink crit
chrome palm
why are you bullish on it
leaden prairie
do you like that alleria trinket zac
It's basically bis for law
alpine wraith
it does damage
leaden prairie
With beloren trinket
alpine wraith
so good for outlaw
leaden prairie
But alleria trinket is a cd
chrome palm
hm
lucid jackal
where and when have you ever seen this bro <:kekw3:907372904130441217>
BRO PPL DO IT IN HERE ALL THE TIME
AND IN OUTLAW
chrome palm
hmmmg
alpine wraith
remember when outlaw played puzzlebox kek
lucid jackal
THEY ARE LIKE "OMG ROGUE GETTING A 1.1% BUFF? HOW CAN THIS BE? ARE WE SURE WE DESERVE IT???"
chrome palm
i got that trinket for crest save
alpine wraith
silly times
lucid jackal
LIKE JUST DIE
leaden prairie
With alleria trinket I can burst 1 million first pack of a dungeon which will give me dopamine and snowball into the rest of the dungeon for at least 10% more dps
lucid jackal
warm marlin
remember when outlaw played puzzlebox kek
House of cards outlaw 
leaden prairie
Real btw
alpine wraith
i want old gauche back
chrome palm
low key i just raw dog my rolls sometimes to feel something
tepid trellis
Its fine whenever outlaw starts to do fine the Numbers in lowkeys and hc/nm raids gets too good and they take it out back again and the cycle continues anew
leaden prairie
i got that trinket for crest save
Mythic?
empty bobcat
is it 2 or 3 stacks of fazed from the cloud? official patchnotes say 2 pin says 3 ?
leaden prairie
It dropped in mythic for us and they asked if I wanted it ..
vestal relic
With alleria trinket I can burst 1 million first pack of a dungeon which will gi...
how?
leaden prairie
I regret
chrome palm
ohno
solid vessel
vale pine
BRO PPL DO IT IN HERE ALL THE TIME
ye, i remeber you being happy about the cleave nerfs subtlety got week one
lucid jackal
????
lucid jackal
U mean the balance patch where "they nerfed the aoe and buff the st"
Rogue is already piss worthless in raid
do u have any idea how fucking worthless sub would be if it did EVEN LESS st?
leaden prairie
how?
I already reached 800 k on live
With trickster buffs that's almost a mil I think
With more gear and a CD trinket
It's easily a mil
And as I said
That's dopamine increase
hollow spear
Not sure the nerfs we got were cleave nerfs, since we've got no cleave 
dry flame
I think the best we can do is fulfill the purpose of this support group discord and care for each other
violet palm
I think you can do 1m as trickster already on live, no?
tepid trellis
Damn guy is a part of the problem
chrome palm
the other trickster
tepid trellis
Smh
chrome palm
edda
leaden prairie
I think you can do 1m as trickster already on live, no?
I'm talking about outlaw
violet palm
Ye I know
chrome palm
violet palm
Outlaw 1m
leaden prairie
Ye I know
But current trickster outlaw does less damage than fatebound wdym
Also you are not hitting 1 mil on live rn
I have never done it yet you are not doing it
hollow spear
I'm not saying that there will be nerfs, but I am saying that if there will be nerfs, at least there's another guy crashout to look forward to
leaden prairie
Noah fence
leaden prairie
Because it does less damage cuh
vestal relic
cant wait for guy to make wowhead article about balance
tepid trellis
I have never done it yet you are not doing it
You are just Old and washed
leaden prairie
Sure thing lil bud
Let's get you to bed grandpa
You are literally 60 year old
Actual real info btw
I saw his id
tepid trellis
Not enough french tacos eaten lately
hollow spear
I've heard Stealthi is 57
tepid trellis
Cant take me to bed zac
paper trail
Do i craft belt with haste or crit?
tepid trellis
Im already in it
paper trail
for long term
hollow spear
hot damn, who's checkmated now zac
vestal relic
zac remember your secret
tepid trellis
Cuddling a pupper
leaden prairie
Im already in it
Same
vestal relic
dont get baited by stealthi
leaden prairie
About to go to sleep rn
tribal blade
Do i craft belt with haste or crit?
likely do both, come reset crit will be high value
tepid trellis
Ratioβd nerd
paper trail
likely do both, come reset crit will be high value
ye thats why im unsure tbh
prob going crit y
tepid trellis
dont get baited by stealthi
I would Never ragebait him
tribal blade
stealthi is half asian half white like me, i'm on his team
tepid trellis
I only speak truth
vestal relic
surething buddy
keen dome
Big fan of cuddling a pupper
vestal relic
can you tell truth to blizzard and get chain bte back througt ace giving more cp?
tepid trellis
Nope
vestal relic
i beg
clear osprey
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vestal relic
its the truth
tepid trellis
Cuz i hate that gameplay loop. So i wouldnt ask
vestal relic
just outlaw
tepid trellis
And cats
vestal relic
got it
vale pine
Basically, the argument was that the heavy-handed nerf did alleviate the balance between specs and made rogue more well-rounded back then.
tepid trellis
Thats about it
vale pine
the problem is, this isn't how it turned out
looking at a pure st fight, subtlety isn't doing so hot
lucid jackal
what did I say thats false here
Rogue is bad but they all kinda do their own thing
Rogue is balanced between rogue specS
its just a bad melee raid, and also rogue is bad
vale pine
while cleave is now completely terrible
tepid trellis
What niche does rogue have?
lucid jackal
Between the rogue specs?
keen dome
What niche does rogue have?
Discord posting
leaden prairie
What niche does rogue have?
Best at benchwarming
lucid jackal
Sub has 1:30, sin has excecute, outlaw has flatline
Rogue just does no fucking damage
vale pine
i mean the argument was literally
leaden prairie
We gonna continue acting like flatline is ever a niche that is valuable
leaden prairie
And not a disadvantage on 90% of encounters
short radish
What niche does rogue have?
getting the crafting orders while everyone is in raid
lucid jackal
Basically, the argument was that the heavy-handed nerf did alleviate the balance...
Notice how I didn't say in this picture what ur saying
vale pine
i would say that argues around positivers of a nerf
lucid jackal
What I said was "this is why they didn't JUST buff subs ST"
They probably could have looking back at it, and then also buffed the other rogue specs
dry flame
What niche does rogue have?
I was starting to compile a list yesterday
lucid jackal
but thats not me "ASKING FOR ROGUE TO GET NERFED"
Thats looking at a balance change and saying "I understand why they did that"
tribal blade
sub channel in shambles with upcoming buffs
lucid jackal
these are two different things entierly
tepid trellis
Subs only niche is Getting its niches stolen
vale pine
^
vestal relic
lol
dry flame
That's why I made the list
tribal blade
Subs only niche is Getting its niches stolen
this hits hard
tepid trellis
Cant even Call it a 90s spec when it doesent burst anymore. Its a 20 sec spec
vestal relic
stop ragebaiting
dry flame
So:
- Funnel removed, other specs/classes get way better ones
- Raid buff removed
- Cheat Death nerfed - other classes way better ones
- Cloak nerfed - other classes get way better ones
- Shroud nerfed (invis detection/dungeon design) - other classes get way better ones
- Evasion pretty much useless nowadays unless group fails
- Feint Nerfed (still good and only thing keeping us in the game atm)
Smoke bomb - other classes get better ones
keen dome
they're never going to steal my ability to vanish and run away
lucid jackal
its about to big boom again
keen dome
I am very excited for reset
tepid trellis
you get big burst back
18% of nothing is still nothing
keen dome
Bonus rolls! Big burst! Gaze in EVERYBODIES VAULT.
short radish
> So:
> - Funnel removed, other specs/classes get way better ones
> - Raid buff ...
you could put smoke bomb given to DH, but that's digging bottom of the barrel
short radish
wait what? when
vale pine
ghoon
dry flame
you could put smoke bomb given to DH, but that's digging bottom of the barrel
Good point
short radish
what was it?
keen dome
gezhundheit
vale pine
well you can't step now in certain cases
vestal relic
i understand now
tribal blade
i thought fuu wrote "goon" for a second
vestal relic
guy is just not co,plqining enough for outlaw to ever be good
vale pine
so when there are terrain hight diffrences or line or other constraints, you often can't step even if you are in range
vestal relic
you guys are crazy
tepid trellis
According to outlaw Channel yes
keen dome
crazy for rogue
vale pine
Thats looking at a balance change and saying "I understand why they did that"
Thats up to discussion, the problem is, the nerf did not rly help with the predicted outcome
short radish
why was this OP on ghoon
vale pine
i don't think anything else happened than rogue being in general bad
vale pine
from the change
short radish
yo you gooning
only goon of fortune
tribal blade
hell yeah
vale pine
but lets not go into it too much, it is what it is and we get buffs
so π outlaw tier
tepid trellis
why was this OP on ghoon
U skipped the slow gauntlet with it
vestal relic
for real
vestal relic
so happy if we get an outlaw tier
vale pine
there are other classes who still can skip it
tepid trellis
Stopping to mon statues on the ledge
vale pine
so the nerf was not for all abilities who could lead to this
leaden prairie
so happy if we get an outlaw tier
Still unplayable on 3 out of 4 of the hard bosses tho so
lucid jackal
the giant worm
keen dome
giant worm..
leaden prairie
Idk if I would call it an outlaw tier
tepid trellis
Last boss uldir
short radish
keen dome
OH
tepid trellis
S1 bfa
short radish
i think i had quit just before we got to that boss
vale pine
Which boss was ghoon
big slug in uldir, you had to fight him, then run a gountlet right/left, then fight him again
keen dome
Yeah the ball tossing slug boss
vale pine
yep
keen dome
the destiny 2 boss of wow
tepid trellis
Still unplayable on 3 out of 4 of the hard bosses tho so
Tbf there is only 1 boss this tier. Rest is some Mickey mouse shit
tribal blade
this convo is giving me flashbacks of losing combo
keen dome
(A lot of destiny 2 raid mechanics revolve around dunking a ball)
vestal relic
Still unplayable on 3 out of 4 of the hard bosses tho so
shush i know but no a,ount of buff would change that except pc back
leaden prairie
Tbf there is only 1 boss this tier. Rest is some Mickey mouse shit
Sure
keen dome
BfA really did take it from all of us
dry flame
BfA really did take it from all of us
Took what?
keen dome
Shuriken Combo (Zul), Shadowstep nerf (G'huun), my sanity (Dazar'lor)
keen dome
Mekkatorque in a guild that struggles with content and doesn't use voice comm 
We had to use a specific addon to solve it, it sucked so much
Absolutely terrible design
tribal blade
i barely did any of those fights when they were current
stopped playing out of protest π
alpine wraith
tbh g huun was super krangled in diff ways
but i did like the dark shadow mfd build
sad that it died after TFD change
keen dome
stopped playing out of protest π
I lost a lot of interest in WoW and picked up FF14 and had a lovely time playing through to the end fo Shadow bringers during BfA
tribal blade
I lost a lot of interest in WoW and picked up FF14 and had a lovely time playing...
nice nice
keen dome
And also I learned to read cyrllic and pugged into russian M+ groups because they would, for some reason invite me as a Sub rogue
Any other language group? nope.
Russians? yeah, for some reason
tribal blade
hahaha
russians love pain and suffering
that's why
it's baked into their language
keen dome
Some really fun experiences back then with my terrible attempts to write in russian and being told "please stop"
azure thicket
considering most rogues aren't max gear yet we're probably okay
i like how hello is kak
tribal blade
"da big pull or else suka blyaat pussy"
keen dome
Privet
azure thicket
russias love my american accent in cs2
keen dome
I love the way they do smilies. "))))" I think they're smilies anyway
keen dome
I love meeting different cultures and languages on the internet and learning about their meme culture, too
azure thicket
or was that how are you kak dela or something
short radish
or was that how are you kak dela or something
ΠΠ°ΠΊ Π΄Π΅Π»Π°?
ΠΠ΄Π΅ΡΡ ΡΡΡΡΠΊΠΈΠ΅ Π΅ΡΡΡ? Π― Π½Π΅ Π³ΠΎΠ²ΠΎΡΡ ΠΏΠΎ-ΡΡΡΡΠΊΠΈ
azure thicket
uh mm
void ocean
are we hacked, wtf is going on
grand galleon
do we also now use missive for crit/haste instead of mast/haste?
keen dome
The more things change, the more they stay the say. Dooming. Dooming never changes.
grand galleon
I guess wowhead needs missive update, as it is still recommending old ones
even though our main secondary changed
blissful ivy
even though our main secondary changed
I missed something? Is our stat prio changing?
grand galleon
Yes due to new talents I reckon...friendship ended with mastery, now crit is our best friend
tribal blade
Yes due to new talents I reckon...friendship ended with mastery, now crit is our...
mast will still be good
dry flame
Mastery over oneself is BiS
tribal blade
lol true
grand galleon
I see ST is crit, M+ is mast - wonder if we gonna have balanced crit cap
alpine wraith
patch is still not up so guides etc are still not changing to new things
vale pine
The more things change, the more they stay the say. Dooming. Dooming never chang...
subtlety and outlaw get a sizable buff
so, things are good
keen dome
Ye I'm just posting. I think we're gonna be good
rigid sparrow
How necessary is to reach the 800 without guidon haste?? Im playing mostly m+ and im struggling on reaching this number. Also a lot of logs are not sith thst much haste as i saw.
paper siren
Why are the Chinese Sub rogues just doing Mastery> Crit?
alpine wraith
if you have a coordinated group doing big pulls
the 200 haste strat and full mastery crit does more overall
but less st if not pulling mobs into boss
tribal blade
Why are the Chinese Sub rogues just doing Mastery> Crit?
i wouldn't follow what the chinese sub rogues do
paper siren
I wasnβt planning too, I was just curious
tribal blade
they're doing a full mast no haste no warning signs build
that does more aoe
how much more is debatable, prob not a whole lot more than what we run
but that build will do much worse ST
paper siren
Weird
tribal blade
they're timing very high keys with it so it works
paper siren
Maybe they just wanna be different
tribal blade
but i'm not buying that it's better
sub's niche in keys right now is having good ST
so losing that seems counterintuitive
paper siren
Yeah I got use to the haste, I tried leveling my other rogue with that has no haste it felt terrible
tribal blade
yeah no haste sub feels so bad
alpine wraith
think it is mainly pulling shit onto bosses patches up the weakness of the set up
as you can still bp
and get % and boss dmg
fringe lava
so all 3 rogue specs have pretty much same stat prio in .5 patch?
celest spruce
any theory on how we can best spend the re-roll tokents next week? My assumption would be that we just reroll at a boss where we need multiple drops from? or is it more complex?
alpine wraith
most people will try to get gaze
celest spruce
Prio after that? Maybe Guidon?
alpine wraith
that or good items like jewelry or main stat heavy ones
keen dome
Guidon isn't hugely contested, but Gaze is. So def gaze then either nexus or guidon or some other M+
alpine wraith
like chest/pants/helmet
if you have an unlucky vault you can also get merit tokens to get an extra core to send
keen dome
i'm gonna loot gaze from my vault on reset, then win guidon natty on my first rekill of the week
vale pine
any theory on how we can best spend the re-roll tokents next week? My assumption...
if you miss core trinkets -> roll for them
If you have trinkets -> go for mythic upgrades or the aleria neck
trinkets are big
because you can itemlevel boost them
but for chances
if you want to target a specific loot piece in raid
you have a usually 25% chance to get the piece
if you want a specific piece from m+
you have a ~30% chance
ill show it with pictures
this is the loot pool of the first boss of the raid
you want guidon, so you have 4 items in the pool
1/4 % chance to get it
then there is M+, lets say you roll in AA
you want the trinket for example, you can roll 2 times, so 2/5
keen steppe
i got guidon yesterday
Nice i still wait for it :<
vale pine
(whcih is a bit more than 30%)
vale pine
Nice i still wait for it :<
i could finally drop puzzle box
even tho i need to dig it out for baloren again
still a win
keen dome
Nexus riiiings, I desire theeeeem.
vale pine
guidon palys nicer
vale pine
Nexus riiiings, I desire theeeeem.
funnily enough
the 12.0.5 profiles
seem to be more flexible with rings
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
frank wolf
Lads I just paid 800k for heroic guidon and gaze. W investment or L scam?
frank wolf
frank wolf
keen dome
Chimmy is harder to initially kill but once you do rekilling isn't so bad. Imperator falls over atm
keen dome
Just pick a bad group that collapses on Voraius in 1 pull so you don't have to feel bad about leaving them 
frank wolf
My chimaerus mythic pug groups need to be studied at harvard
vale pine
ask igestalt
frank wolf
And first 2 mythic just hasnt dropped for me in vault yet ffs
vale pine
he did multiple days of pugs to get his first kill
keen dome
Haha
frank wolf
I mean ig spending it the day before bonus rolls is L but bro W blp
keen dome
Yeah
atomic bobcat
@vale pine so we boost main hand first and the go for like mythic gaze boost?
vale pine
man has iron nerves
olive canyon
i personally found the first 2 in void much easier than chim
keen dome
Punz is the real puglord, I just followed in his footsteps for chim
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> so we boost main hand first and the go for like mythic gaz...
probably ye
olive canyon
chim has a few fail/wipe checks
keen dome
i personally found the first 2 in void much easier than chim
they are
frank wolf
chim has a few fail/wipe checks
The wipe check is if im in the group then you wipe
olive canyon
we juts got dragons last night and boy oh boy did i have to hand hold
keen dome
Chim has madness swaps, realm damage and also kicks in intermissions.
olive canyon
and that fight is not hard, but ppl tend to panic
frank wolf
- gaze doesnt drop + if it does bottom dps rolls 100 + doesnt appear in vault
keen dome
Saladbar 2.0 and Voraius both feel a lot easier than ChimmyM
olive canyon
paladins also after the nerfs is just a big dance
intermission is the bane of all on chim, so simple yet so difficult for some
keen dome
I've seen people fuck up madness swaps
So many people will get swappd then go stand on the wrong side and kill people
keen dome
Yeah same
olive canyon
I personally like the King Salhadar fight quite a bit
keen dome
Chim is hitting 45% in decent pugs this reset too
So it's gonna just continue getting easier which is nice
lean sigil
Any tips on imperator mythic, my guild kills in about 6:15, do i pool some to get a blades on adds or better to send on cd?
olive canyon
i just go by loorgs
and map their timers or if its a prog fight ill check someone i know is good like fimbul or charrend
keen dome
I should do that
grizzled hornet
this is so cursed
olive canyon
unfortunaltey i may need to reroll to a range, melee raid leading is no bueno
lean sigil
and map their timers or if its a prog fight ill check someone i know is good lik...
But timers are not same right
keen dome
unfortunaltey i may need to reroll to a range, melee raid leading is no bueno
It's rough but Sub is pretty good for it due to your downtime and ability to shift.
But it's def more on the Hard Mode side of it
vale pine
grizzled hornet
which ai bot is the rogue dev nowadays ?
grizzled hornet
ss>bs>bs>cds ? i wanna kms
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> so we boost main hand first and the go for like mythic gaz...
the one i linked
the sim
shows how much loss it is
upgraded vs. not upgraded
mainhand weapon is 1.4 loss
so upgrading is the highest impact
trinkets seem about the same
alpine wraith
what i wonder is if we get unlimited cores
alpine wraith
as the wording kinda implies it
atomic bobcat
thanks, btw. dance gain more time from bigger guidon? seems like its capped
frank wolf
@vale pine i think it was eleem that said it but i may be misquoting. Difference between premed and nomed after patch > or < 1%?
celest spruce
trinkets seem about the same
this is my droptimizer, i feel like its a full send on imperator no?
alpine wraith
no premed can highroll a bit more
summer peak
Hey guys, for anyone that has killled crown mythic. Does pre cloak or pre evasion work on immunity for the the breaks p3. I know bubble and stuff works but seeing does it also benifit if I try present some
vale pine
this is my droptimizer, i feel like its a full send on imperator no?
guidon is rly big, so would roll for it
celest spruce
agreed, ty!
alpine wraith
iirc you need to hit the 1 sec immune but someone can correct me
vale pine
trinkets seem about the same
i think i need to change flasks there, as crit flask is big now
alpine wraith
for some reason my mimiron sim kept using mastery flask
tribal blade
what's even the play with bonus rolls
alpine wraith
unless i changed it on the string
short radish
ranged use 2 brain cells. one for figuring out which direction is far away, another for pressing interrupt: difficulty impossible
keen dome
what's even the play with bonus rolls
Gaze into Guidon into cool rings
alpine wraith
for bonus rolls likely gaze into guiden yea
keen dome
ranged use 2 brain cells. one for figuring out which direction is far away, anot...
Hahahha
alpine wraith
then maybe xenas rings or paladins
keen dome
i have m gaze π
Guidon into COOL RINGS
tribal blade
surely i don't need to bonus roll the 1st boss
alpine wraith
yea then M guidon big
alpine wraith
i mean it can drop yea
vale pine
for some reason my mimiron sim kept using mastery flask
default flask probably wasn't changed
short radish
surely i don't need to bonus roll the 1st boss
im worried im gonna bonus roll and it'll give me the bow just to spite me because rogues can use bows
keen dome
lmao
tribal blade
im worried im gonna bonus roll and it'll give me the bow just to spite me becaus...
LOL there's no shot we get the bow
that would be criminal
keen dome
They did, thankfully, specify our loot specialisation and the bow doesn't show on that
But it'd be so funny
short radish
what are the fucking odds on my loot chances
tribal blade
on reset guidon in vault
short radish
blizzard spaghetti code has bugged out before
short radish
on reset guidon in vault
yeah on my paladin for the 3rd week in a row
tribal blade
just wait
keen dome
Gaze in vault for me. Then guidon will drop on my imperator rekill and I'm gonna win it with a 100.
short radish
acutally wait no im not killing anything on my paladin this week so it can't appear in its vault
keen dome
And then I'm getting both nexus rings in M+ day 1
short radish
tribal blade
i might bonus roll nexus point too
tribal blade
me too tbh
keen dome
also nexus has a dagger, a cloak, chest, hands, boots
so it's not a bad dungo
the dagger is bad secondaries but i mean it's a myth dagger, so
grizzled hornet
@vale pine do u have the image of the TWW opener for sub? i wanna make a meme
frank wolf
How are we feeling about skyreach dagger
tribal blade
wait so how does it work, you only exclude gear you have from that dungeon from bonus rolls already?
keen dome
wait so how does it work, you only exclude gear you have from that dungeon from ...
Correct
frank wolf
Why is a vers dagger our bis kek
tribal blade
or is it any gear you got from that dungeon in your bank
keen dome
No, it's explictly bonus rolls
celest spruce
Do we know how much more dps we will do on avg on tuesdays patch?
keen dome
Their wording is very very explict that it is only via bonus rolls, not any other looting. So you'll have to roll 7 times maximum in Nexus to get rings. But theroetically just 2 minimum.
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> do u have the image of the TWW opener for sub? i wanna ma...
like this?
or you mean the wowhead timeline
i need to update that one, i forgot to do yesterday
give me a minute
grizzled hornet
like this?
not the current one, the one we used in TWW
celest spruce
where can i find things like this for myself?
keen dome
We don't know if we're getting the +ilevel item from the get-go or not but I guess we can find out tomorrow
frank wolf
where can i find things like this for myself?
See pinned msgs
smoky prawn
for a boss scenario with lots of funnel, i should shuriken storm isntead of backstab for builder right?
vale pine
not the current one, the one we used in TWW
ohh
keen dome
If you are on mobile then I don't know, only the mysteries of the universe can help you
grand galleon
anybody knows how many Myth items will be able to boost next week with forge? what is cap for voidcores?
dense fossil
I was like, holy crap, FDK buffs can't be that big, and then I realised its rogue cord. 
keen dome
anybody knows how many Myth items will be able to boost next week with forge? wh...
We have no idea.
Blizz haven't communicated how that part of the system will work
grand galleon
I tried to look in PTR but there is no currency for that so no cap
alpine wraith
yea we dont know until someone drops a second
celest spruce
Do you guys actually wait a second on guidon each time? I do and it feels so bad
grand galleon
Do you guys actually wait a second on guidon each time? I do and it feels so bad
you get used to it
celest spruce
Ive done it for weeks, and its fine.. but it just feels bad lol
I strike > insta guidon, wait for gcd.
frank wolf
ctrl+F btw
keen dome
ctrl+F btw
ctrl+f is sprint
grizzled hornet
ty
vale pine
had to find the psd file for it^^
frank wolf
ctrl+f is sprint
Holy cursed shift+1 is sprint
keen dome
I can't hit shift+1 because I'm sinister
frank wolf
We can agree that evis is 4 right
keen dome
evis is 3
keen steppe
Good old times
frank wolf
Shuriken storm is R bro
keen dome
r is dance
vale pine
i have cursed binds
frank wolf
Dude lock in
keen steppe
We can agree that evis is 4 right
Every button is 1 D:
vale pine
shift + e for storm
frank wolf
Dance is Q bro
vale pine
shift + 4 for bp
keen dome
Q is strafe left
grizzled hornet
backstab in shadow dance
i'd rather bs in dance first thing rather than bs to 7 to do the opener
fierce ivy
Shuriken Storm is Alt + 3 and blackpowder is F1 π
keen dome
I can't hit shift or alt π
frank wolf
Using shift for spenders needs to be studied at an accredited, private institution
vale pine
i mean it just shifted
frank wolf
Preferably peer reviewed
keen steppe
I bound vanish on alt + f4 works pretty good
keen dome
my thumb is on ctrl so it's comfy
vale pine
ability ordering was important in df/tww
while in midnight we have things like
backstabbing to full
using a trinket 1 sec before dance
to get the haste benefits
or macroing dance + ability to not lose a gcd
frank wolf
In midnight we have shift e shuriken storm
keen dome
stealth is F1
keen dome
i have e as shadowstep
I have it as f
frank wolf
Shadowstep is the most obvious x bind ever
keen dome
Vertical?
I'm left-handed, so my mouse is in my left hand. My right hand is keyboard. So my thumb is on ctrl, my palm on spacebar
It makes shift/alt hard to hit
frank wolf
I'm left-handed, so my mouse is in my left hand. My right hand is keyboard. So m...
I alr figured when u said ur thumb was on ctrl
keen dome
π
frank wolf
I was like either bro has a thumb where i have a pinky or hes lefty
keen dome
Sinister power
that's why sinister strike always comes from the left. it's a left strike
eternal abyss
I always put movement stuff on Qπ
frank wolf
Is that conventional though? I always thought leftys also just use mouse on right hand
short radish
my rupture is f3
keen dome
The word sinister, suggestive of darkness or evil, comes from a Latin word meaning βon the left side.β
keen dome
Is that conventional though? I always thought leftys also just use mouse on righ...
Yeah, I mean I just never did so I do it weirdly
I refuse to adapt to normative standards. I am a rebel without a cause
It does make buying mice annoying
frank wolf
F3 is fucking insane btw
keen dome
so I've really just made my life more difficult
short radish
yeah health pot/health stone are f4/f5
keen dome
I have stances on F1 - F4, so Stealth is F1 and then druid forms are 1 - 4.
Makes it very comfy
health pot is on H for Health
frank wolf
Hollyyy gestalt common ground found
short radish
b = blind
keen dome
these are my stupidest binds
And it is very awkward to hit \ to pop it
I should really fix them to be something more sensible
Since my opener is currently
1 ` \ ctrl+mousewheel up, R
vale pine
Vertical?
i got a low profile one from my gf, because my mechanical one was too loud, but i use these keys for binds
keen dome
π
keen dome
i got a low profile one from my gf, because my mechanical one was too loud, but ...
that's neat
vale pine
6 too, tho i made a picture cutting of at 5
keen dome
Y being down there is throwing me
vale pine
german layout
sly shore
ya I use Strg binds too
keen dome
Hahaha
vale pine
^
alpine wraith
big
keen dome
feint is ctrl+4
frank wolf
Ok heres the actual question
sly shore
feint is alt + E actually
frank wolf
What mouse are we rocking gamers
raw wadi
x is feint
You don't have feint S, cloak shift+s, evasion alt+s
south robin
What.. always v for vanish
reef walrus
if you like cursed keybinds, I have crimson vial on W
keen dome
S is backpeddle
void ocean
What mouse are we rocking gamers
redragon 19 button
keen dome
It's very important
sly shore
mines on R for reallyneedtohealabit
vale pine
You don't have feint S, cloak shift+s, evasion alt+s
i only use shift as modifier
keen dome
A and D are turn left and right. Also very important so I can slowly rotate to look at someone when they say something weird.
vale pine
the other modifier keys feel not natural to press
void ocean
A and D are turn left and right. Also very important so I can slowly rotate to l...
like on NK Saladbar
reef walrus
if you like cursed keybinds, I have crimson vial on W
though I should add that I don't have a qwerty keyboard
void ocean
lemme take a better look at that ghost
keen dome
haha yeah
pastel rampart
ctrl shift alt 9 is kick
keen dome
hahaha
vale pine
What mouse are we rocking gamers
keen dome
standard pug bind
frank wolf
ctrl shift alt 9 is kick
Dps in my keys pov
violet palm
i got a low profile one from my gf, because my mechanical one was too loud, but ...
Strife main, i see. Never forward, sometimes backward and mostly sideways like a crab
vale pine
tho i wouldn't recommend it
olive canyon
not close @keen dome chim i think is much harder than the 2 easily in void and possibly king S too depending on your tanks
frank wolf
tho i wouldn't recommend it
Why bro decent mouse
keen dome
I think he's slightly easier than dwagons, yeah
frank wolf
Had it before g502 wireless
vale pine
Strife main, i see. Never forward, sometimes backward and mostly sideways like a...
need to use ad between attacks
keen dome
Natural 4/5 boss area
vale pine
jokes aside, all of the regularly used characters are worn out more
a and d are 2 of them
keen dome
I love how different everyone has their binds. It further cements that there's no wrong answer and it's all valid except unbinding S which is coward behaviour
void ocean
Tab after playing bleed build
gloomy jetty
Just wanna ask about macro for shadow dance with a builder/spender, will there be times when I'd wanna cast shadow dance without this macro? Essentially does this mean having two different keybinds for shadow dance?
vale pine
but like o, i u, n, m and space are simialrly worn out
violet palm
need to use ad between attacks
True spam ad between globals is bis
void ocean
i have S bound for my main burst
since im an ex pvp player and u dont backpeddal in pvp
meager creek
Does sub get buffed next reset? 
vale pine
ΓΆ,Γ€,ΓΌ x, q, z and j are the least worn out
vale pine
Does sub get buffed next reset? <a:evilcat:1473987511997960433>
yes, roughly 6%
frank wolf
Just wanna ask about macro for shadow dance with a builder/spender, will there b...
Sometimes you wont be at max cp entering dance, in which case youd wanna dance, build to max, and then sectec
vale pine
i am so tired of AA, just cnt get puzzlebox to drop
just get it in the vault, easy (i am joking)
frank wolf
But honestly i use the macro maybe 95% of the time
limpid sage
if you like cursed keybinds, I have crimson vial on W
I have a friend that uses YGHJ as movement keys
mint swift
i am so tired of AA, just cnt get puzzlebox to drop
How many runs
gloomy jetty
But honestly i use the macro maybe 95% of the time
Do you personally have two separate keybinds for it? One for the macro and one for shadow dance alone
mint swift
Raider io
void ocean
Do you personally have two separate keybinds for it? One for the macro and one f...
one with shift modifier
frank wolf
Do you personally have two separate keybinds for it? One for the macro and one f...
Yep, also have 2 separate keybinds for coup and bp and just bp
mint swift
I did 46 seat runs for my shoulders
reef walrus
I have a friend that uses YGHJ as movement keys
I have ZQSD as movement
olive canyon
I did 46 seat runs for my shoulders
jesus
limpid sage
I have ZQSD as movement
Do you play with the keyboard sideways
and if so is it because of cs
weak flame
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
void ocean
bro having 8 fingers on his left hand
reef walrus
Do you play with the keyboard sideways
for some reason there's like 2 countries in the world where this shit is standard
frank wolf
I have ZQSD as movement
Bro also has W keybind crimson vial put this guy on a list
void ocean
what is this cursed shit
mint swift
bro having 8 fingers on his left hand
Better than 6 Fingers on their right hand
mint swift
Cause iirc there was a person looking for them
limpid sage
recently learned that danish keyboard layout has swapped Γ and Γ around compared to our nordic neighbors (I thought this was the standard)
limpid sage
but it makes no sense to have Γ before Γ to me
vale pine
how do the forge work next week ?
you can upgrade a fully upgraded hero or mythic piece
but only weapon/trinket
south robin
Do you know if we will be restricted or can farm unlimited ascendant Voidcores?
pliant pendant
you can upgrade a fully upgraded hero or mythic piece
So al the way up to 298 ?
vale pine
we will see, but i don't think blizz will gvie you unlimited whatever
pliant pendant
okei
pliant pendant
okei thanks
vale pine
but if you only have heroic gear
might just upgrade your crafted weapon
weapon is the best upgrade
trinkets after
offhand weapon is kinda whatever
pliant pendant
have guidon myth
frank wolf
offhand weapon is kinda whatever
Is hero->mythvbis trink more valuable thank myth-> myth+ off hand?
vale pine
wepon > trinkets
vale pine
Is hero->mythvbis trink more valuable thank myth-> myth+ off hand?
offhand is so good
you can sim offhand upgrade a few times
and get it down to 0.1-0.2% dps
limpid sage
is it public knowledge what the drop chance on the voidcores are?
vale pine
so offhand slot is kinda
slender belfry
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
unless
limpid sage
just whether or not it's realistic to get before raid wednesday
vale pine
but if you have no mythic mainhand weapon
you likely have a crafted weapon
you can then decide on two things
- try to use your bonusrolls in m+ to get a mythic weapon
- upgrade your crafted weapon and use it in mh
olive canyon
its just going to feel real bad coining the first boss and get some bs
olive canyon
2. upgrade your crafted weapon and use it in mh
this is me right now and will likely happen
vale pine
first boss has 3/4 items as good
graceful portal
Hey guys question about haste cap. When i look at the wowhead bis gear most of the pieces are crit/mastery. The 700 haste cap is with trinket/flask counted ?
vestal fog
Had the voracius myth dagger given to a surv hunter first week, haven't seen the dagger since 
vale pine
head - can catalyze in tier
feet - can catalyze for good stats
guidon
frank wolf
and get it down to 0.1-0.2% dps
If this is the case then after upgrading myth maindhand its prolly better to upgrade hero guidon/gaze to myth than to do another myth offhand no?
vale pine
so its not a bad boss to roll on
vale pine
If this is the case then after upgrading myth maindhand its prolly better to upg...
yes
i posted a sim earlier
moment
thats essentially pre vs. post upgrade
mh weapon is highest impact
obsidian crag
I wonder if puzzle box myth 298 full upgrade won't be stronger than other trinkets
vale pine
trinkets are about the same, guidon isn't that big of an upgrade
frank wolf
Offhand is some dook
vale pine
offhand is rly low impact
it was 0.2 in a re-run of the sim
so its rly low impact
but weapon is most important
and after that 
trinkets are good
offhand is whatever
obsidian crag
Gaze myth is probably the safest bet after weapons cuz it's the most versatile trinket for both raid n mplus I guess
vale pine
e.g. gaze and guidon are rly close, but gaze gives more consistent stats
grizzled hornet
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet
frank wolf
Is there ever a case for upgraded myth box in m+ over guidon? No way right
vale pine
still both "only" 0.5% diffrence
hard to say
i like box in m+
might be rly good for baloren tho
(not sure how big of a diffrence it make, haste is also good)
dry flame
Ive lost last 3 myth gaze rolls, I have outsourced my RNG hopium, and I'll be getting it in vault this Wednesday
Renown trinket no more soon β’
frank wolf
Renown trinket no more soon β’
Lmao im still rocking that fucking crucible too
It must be sponsored by raidbots the way it dominates my sims
dry flame
dry flame
I think myth gaze simmed ~2.3k dps upgrade for me
vale pine
Renown trinket no more soon β’
same for me, also rocking renown trinket atm
we haven't seen gaze drop tho
sooo
maybe we can get one soon
atomic bobcat
but any fight in the raid actually counts as st?
sly shore
doesn't matter
you just swap to rotten for ST
every fight is treated as ST with some sporadic aoe, except for council
atomic bobcat
if it was old flurry i would get it
atomic bobcat
trickster def. seems very crit heavy
when you say "heavy" how much would you go for?
sly shore
I can basically swap wrist for the one I have in bags
can swap a ring
and recraft crafts
violet palm
Vorasius dagger would not be our bis after 0.5?
grizzled hornet
Vorasius dagger would not be our bis after 0.5?
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sly shore
they are both very close
vale pine
when you say "heavy" how much would you go for?
sim prioritizes it quite a bit
vale pine
Vorasius dagger would not be our bis after 0.5?
dagger remains bis craft
dry flame
we haven't seen gaze drop tho
Even on HC? I've only pugged this tier, 4 myth chims, 3 gazes
autumn flame
Is the voidcore uppgrade the same ilvl for crafted items and regular items?
vale pine
the main changes are:
- Trickster talents (we use rotten, cloud cover and no premediation)
- We backstab before dance in the opener due to the loss of premed
- Single target preferes crit quite a bit, so it drops mastery for crit
grizzled hornet
raidbots haste issue was fixed and we getting the changes with the "buffs" on reset?
olive canyon
the main changes are:
- Trickster talents (we use rotten, cloud cover and no pre...
any value in an early vanish in the opener to help the cp build or not?
grizzled hornet
still vanish with no premed wont give u full cp
sly shore
the backstab in opener is actually really nice for beloren
grizzled hornet
we are backstab enjoyers right now
olive canyon
Currently i believe we SS on 3 targets in dance, does that number change at all if we were to go heavy crit afer the changes?
sly shore
I've been delaying my burst by 2s in opener with SS > Evis > Vanish + SS > burst
because it aligns with adds being gripped in for the second sectech
obtuse raft
Can somebody take a look at log i have for Vorasius and tell me wtf am i doing wrong ? I don't see Coup/Unseen blade in my timeline at all O.o My parse is abysmal and i feel like i am missing something important.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/D68vgFj3KZPAz4GB?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=17
grizzled hornet
the backstab in opener is actually really nice for beloren
yeah but do you enjoy it? i feel it cursed
native zodiac
you can also delay blades until the first set of adds
first st goes into adds
2nd into eggs
youll have it back for burn anyways
paper siren
Backstab it too cursed
olive canyon
Can somebody take a look at log i have for Vorasius and tell me wtf am i doing w...
youre playing deathstalker
native barn
how much % increase not using premed , if its like %0.5 not worth imo π
obtuse raft
ah fuck me .... π right
tribal blade
ah fuck me .... π right
that's a new one lol
obtuse raft
i played the entire fight like i am playing trickster...
sly shore
yeah but do you enjoy it? i feel it cursed
ye it good
tribal blade
i'm actually confused how that even happens
do you not have cdm set up?
(no flame, i'm just curious)
grizzled hornet
ye it good
i mean the new opener, not the bird fight
sly shore
that was the reply to new opener