honestly 2-3 key levels below title
#subtlety
hollow spear
stabbing me in the back with this one
keen dome
It does tell me they intend M+ to remain with this sorta difficulty curve though
tribal blade
what was 1% last season
hazy breach
Not really as they explicitly said they would adjust it
keen dome
Yeah
keen dome
Not really as they explicitly said they would adjust it
My sorta is doing heavy lifting.
fair phoenix
thats 0;1 for china?
tribal blade
thats 0;1 for china?
nah that was NA last season
fair phoenix
ah, gotcha
shy ermine
is the 1100 haste recommendation with or without guidon, or does it not matter?
tribal blade
korea
keen dome
Damn, Korea gaming
green blade
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
they're gaming
tribal blade
well NA gonna be the easiest to hit by a mile, good for me
this will inevitably drive up title
tribal blade
so on top of resil key inflation we'll have people trying to hit 1% inflation
title pushing is about to become hella hard
keen dome
But it's going to get more people playing keys above 3k though
Which is extremely good imho
tribal blade
and key sellers about to become hella rich
keen dome
I'm actively going to push for 3.4k
keen dome
and key sellers about to become hella rich
hellaer rich
tribal blade
hellaer rich
TRUE
wild vine
and key sellers about to become hella rich
Hope so
tribal blade
but wait, why is there a diff between 3400 and 1%
keen dome
Because 3.4k is set
obsidian crag
its good that they added 3.4k reward, better than nothing i guess
tribal blade
when they're actually so close to each other
keen dome
and 1% is moving
tribal blade
mm true
keen dome
when they're actually so close to each other
For now but like, by end of season?
And the dif between it on difficulty is probably not unsubstanial
tribal blade
it was only 100 points diff last season
oh nvm just for NA
for asian regions it was 250 diff
eu was 200 diff
keen dome
100 points isn't a lot but I imagine the key difficulty between them is substanial enough
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
so last season i stopped pushing halfway when turboboost started
and hit 3600
which is 100 points over 1% on NA
feral bramble
Is Emberwing Feather considered a good trinket ? wowhead guide say to consider it as a 3mn cd bcause you have to use it before you cd's. Currently having it in myth ilvl in weekly chest.
tribal blade
ok i'm not worried lol
the hardest part will be actually playing with competent people
wild vine
Is Emberwing Feather considered a good trinket ? wowhead guide say to consider i...
Sims can give you a number
tribal blade
i might just ask key friends to tag me in to help them push up keys or something
feral bramble
Sims can give you a number
alright
wild vine
the hardest part will be actually playing with competent people
So basically no pug mage or pug aug
tribal blade
So basically no pug mage or pug aug
YES
feral bramble
also do you agree with the 3mn part ? i don't get why you wouldnt use it every 2mn, and then use you shadow blades after 2mn and 2 sec ?
tribal blade
i've played with the crowd who exist several hundred score below cutoff
it's the special olympics
pretty bad
wild vine
also do you agree with the 3mn part ? i don't get why you wouldnt use it every 2...
Because shadowblades = big damage
So you dont wanna hold it
lilac stag
also do you agree with the 3mn part ? i don't get why you wouldnt use it every 2...
Because we’re a 90 second spec, not a 2 minute spec
wild vine
i've played with the crowd who exist several hundred score below cutoff
I might join the meta slaves strictly for m+
Aug is kinda fun
Dev aswell ig
Probably the most fun of the caster bunch
red flame
I'm actively going to push for 3.4k
Same fr I want the SL black & red mount
keen dome
Same
tribal blade
Aug is kinda fun
is there anything to buy if you already have every mount from M+?
oh actually i didn't play some bfa seasons
because they nuked sub and i quit in protest heehee
hollow spear
and now you betray us every opportunity you get
tribal blade
nah just for paladins 😉
wild vine
Ew
tribal blade
because not playing sin on paladins is a choice of all time
tribal blade
lol yeah
wild vine
tribal blade
if you think i'm gonna touch disgusting ret
you're mistaken
one of my guildies i do keys with is arms and he's an insane parser
gonna rope him into doing more keys
from the little pushing i've done this season the key levels i've been doing aren't hard at all, it's the players in them playing horribly that's the hard part
hollow spear
How much worse is DS's cleave actually than what we have on Trickster?
It feels kinda ass on Trickster already
tribal blade
no idea tbh
hollow spear
Correction: it is kinda ass
lean bone
could someone point out again to strings that make simcraft want to achieve 700 haste?
weary tree
How much worse is DS's cleave actually than what we have on Trickster?
just don't cleave ez
hollow spear
I mean, you could just stick to the boss on Chimaerus and show the assa boss loggers what's up
tribal blade
can't wait for the yo yo swing when blizz fixes our cleave again somehow
hollow spear
Maybe we can help our brothers out and stop being padders
spare oar
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
could someone point out again to strings that make simcraft want to achieve 700 ...
Set X to the number of haste you want before consumables
gear_haste_rating=X
lean bone
Set X to the number of haste you want before consumables
```gear_haste_rating=...
goat, thanks
tribal blade
https://tenor.com/view/hold-my-breath-rooster-faint-gif-19756659
oh yeah it's not happening any time soon lol
gonna be like next expac beta fixing
lilac stag
we hit the point in prog where major upgrades for the rogue (me) are going to boomkins as a minor upgrade. Me in LC: nope. Give it to them.
this class is just dog shit in raid
fair phoenix
Strong ST, dont recommend on chinerus kekw
i was thinking to try on dungeons
tribal blade
we hit the point in prog where major upgrades for the rogue (me) are going to bo...
damn you are a kind and benevolent god
hollow plinth
Set X to the number of haste you want before consumables
```gear_haste_rating=...
that just forces your haste to be 700 regardless of gear
lilac stag
The oils and such still added or no? When I looked at it the report still had total over.
opal basalt
Set X to the number of haste you want before consumables
```gear_haste_rating=...
where do i put that shit in?
hollow plinth
so if you top gear with that setting, i imagine it will remove your haste gear, cause you already forced the haste elsewhere
opal basalt
nevermind then
lilac stag
It’s not useful for top gear. I was just looking for when drop offs hit
sweet moss
we still using arcane mastery on off hand weap?
lilac stag
damn you are a kind and benevolent god
I mean DH & Druid flat out better everywhere for our next couple of weeks of prog
sweet moss
how can i drop 50 ish haste
opal basalt
okay idk if i'm worrying too much rn but those three sets (given i swapped the mast/haste gems to haste/mast gems) are my best ones rn (with mastery flask in sim)
sweet moss
actually can swap ring
opal basalt
i'd play the one with 695 haste right?
plush roost
i was thinking to try on dungeons
Dont is not good
sweet moss
'NOT have guidon already its probably a good idea to aim for ~800 haste as Trickster rather than 700, because the 800 allows you to fit a second Secret Technique inside of your shadow blades (as sectech clones hit 0.6/1.2 seconds after you press the button). Similarly to how we currently play with guidon you would hold the second Dance until the last 8 seconds of Blades and then cast the Secret Technique without supercharger.'
i swear its extrememly hard to fit it in
the blades
tropic field
how much haste is needed if i have a mythic guidon?
tropic field
okey cuz i have 676 atm but according to crafting sim crit/mastery is my best option
sweet moss
still 700
candid prawn
'NOT have guidon already its probably a good idea to aim for ~800 haste as Trick...
Sorry if it's been mentioned already, but what if you only have emberwing? Been shooting for 700 still. Idk if there's a consensus
sweet moss
no guidon = 800
guidon = 700
im sure new about wing actually
possibly is 700 aswell
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
tropic field
this is with haste/master can anyone explain why 285 dagger gives 0.2% dps over a Hero dagger?
obsidian crag
how do i set up haste to 800 om simc?
warm marlin
this is with haste/master can anyone explain why 285 dagger gives 0.2% dps over ...
Offhand slot is literally worthless
sweet moss
this is with haste/master can anyone explain why 285 dagger gives 0.2% dps over ...
wdym?
tropic field
aah okey
so i should probably craft boots then since neck is easier to get a hold on?
warm marlin
both seem like fine choices
sweet moss
why does wow head not suggest using sharpening stone on main hand
wintry heart
Because haste stonks ↗️
sweet moss
wym
as in now we just need more stats
but what if im already hitting 800 haste
should drop some haste somewhere and use oil?
lilac stag
why does wow head not suggest using sharpening stone on main hand
Because it’s not intended to use a TBC era item in MN
sweet moss
i need to know if sharpenign stone is bait
so its better but will probs be fixed
pmuch?
hollow spear
Offhand slot is literally worthless
Not if you need haste
shy crown
!trinkets
quaint breach
What is the 1% Rio cut-off today?
outer geyser
are puzzle box and guidon usable together or is there a cd?
lilac stag
On Use Trinkets (with a few exceptions) have a 20-30 second gcd
outer geyser
yea im asking if it is the exception
sharp ravine
No exception
steady sphinx
Set X to the number of haste you want before consumables
```gear_haste_rating=...
where do i put this line?
swift tinsel
What is the 1% Rio cut-off today?
ionic ingot
the black bars proc is coup de grace right? any reason it’s not showing up for me? i have spell opacity set to 100 as well. perhaps an add-on issue?
upper narwhal
the black bars proc is coup de grace right? any reason it’s not showing up for m...
It’s the apex talent
warm marlin
Not if you need haste
Just have haste 
quaint breach
Umbral champion is per class and not Rio only? 😯 So max ~147 sub rogues qualify for title?
keen dome
Pretty sure it won't fire until the end of the season, same as title?
lilac stag
where do i put this line?
If you don’t know what you’re doing with it, it’s not going to be of any use to use. It’s not for topgear or droptimizer use.
any info it would generate is listed in the 📌
tight roost
Are Those the Rogue boots from Catalyst
lilac stag
Yes. Grim Jest is tier items
swift tinsel
Umbral champion is per class and not Rio only? 😯 So max ~147 sub rogues quali...
that's just how many are in title range per spec atm
thin sinew
Where is everyones crit sort of settling around?
swift tinsel
iirc like 23%
torn tide
yo what items are yall crafting after ur 2nd crafted?
vale warren
Is there a way in the logs to check if i optimized the apex talent correctly?
thin sinew
iirc like 23%
Yeh same.
sims are trying to make me get more crit over mastery. which is a bit weird to me
swift tinsel
ah I don't really pay attention to stats besides haste when I'm looking at gear
crystal comet
yo what items are yall crafting after ur 2nd crafted?
I went with the neck, since I'm not likely to get Cosmos neck for a while and it was my lowest ilvl
thin sinew
i'm usually the same but i got plume from vault and it just seems to have skewed things
swift tinsel
have about 1k mastery and 695 haste with oils so I'm chillin
manic ice
is 1100 haste even possible without the neck from alleria?
torn tide
I went with the neck, since I'm not likely to get Cosmos neck for a while and it...
thats fair
pulsar hemlock
the black bars proc is coup de grace right? any reason it’s not showing up for m...
Set opacity to like 94 or 95% instead of 100, I think elvui has a bug regarding this.
Also is the apex talent, not coup
keen dome
damn, Gaze can drop off the boss!
radiant swift
!log
swift tinsel
did ya win it, son?
keen dome
lmao no
keen dome
I think you can do it
swift tinsel
if not I might look into pugging
keen dome
Getting into a good pug is the hardest part
But once you've killed it, you can get into the good groups
swift tinsel
yeah, I've mostly avoided the pug raid scene for the last few xpacs
keen dome
I can give you some general tips if you get to doing it
swift tinsel
so I don't really have any connections in it anymore
swift tinsel
I can give you some general tips if you get to doing it
appreciate that a lot!
keen dome
I'm sure it's different in the US but there's some obvious red flags, easy ways to improve a groups chances, etc
My vault is set for next weds at least
swift tinsel
I'll be interested to see how far we get tomorrow, starting myth imperator
keen dome
I believe in a kill
swift tinsel
haven't looked into difference between hc and mythic on any of the raid yet so I gotta do that lol
keen dome
It's very very minor on Imperator
swift tinsel
last night was very rough finishing spire hc
keen dome
And actually feels like the complete fight
swift tinsel
thats good, they've all definitely felt a bit incomplete up til now
with the exception of crown
keen dome
I really like the change to his spike mechanic
swift tinsel
which we won't get to
copper trail
Is there an upper limit on haste for sub? is there a certain threshold where it is wasting stat points?
crisp jetty
is there something wrong with raidbots? a myth track tier helmet is simming worse than my hero track tier helmet...
swift tinsel
link sim
thin sinew
is there something wrong with raidbots? a myth track tier helmet is simming wors...
Socket diff
finite hedge
Socket
swift tinsel
socket and its only 1/6 myth vs 3/6 hero
quaint breach
So ~3400 appears to qualify for umbral champion too, as of today
crisp jetty
indeed, I missed the socket! Thanks folks
golden totem
So ~3400 appears to qualify for umbral champion too, as of today
It's still very early in the season tho
swift tinsel
I'm sure it'll inflate when pt.2 of the voidcore thing launches
sage meteor
Is there a way i can sim my character with the condition, that i want at least 800 haste (consumables included)?
grizzled cosmos
Still new to the spec, but I’m figuring it out. Thank you for all the tips and help.
sage meteor
thanks
astral axle
alpine wraith
never understimate the power of
just more evis
oh and strike
the DS ones hit harder
warm marlin
I didn't realize one of my gearsets was still active and played a night of alleria with a champ track helmet on instead of my 289 one 
fair phoenix
day 21 is 12.0.5 right?
warm marlin
I think next week DS will be the move on alleria
alpine wraith
yea
fair phoenix
i have like 3 or 4 itens mythic and cannot upgrade
alpine wraith
look at this man
alpine wraith
yea first meme adds then you just tunnel 1 right
warm marlin
the only exception is if you call to help with p3 add sets
alpine wraith
help as DS kekw
warm marlin
which is usually only the second set
alpine wraith
IM GOING FRIENDS
warm marlin
they actually die so its nbd
alpine wraith
shuriken toss
warm marlin
you get DN back
eternal abyss
i have like 3 or 4 itens mythic and cannot upgrade
Well that’s normal… otherwise you’d finish the game in 4 weeks and then float in Silvermoon for another 5 months😂
warm marlin
i have like 3 or 4 itens mythic and cannot upgrade
how can this be possible bruh
I have 7 myth items full upgraded
where yo crests go
swift tinsel
someone not capping their weekly crests?
alpine wraith
he got all the loot
gleaming plank
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wintry heart
Wait do we need 700 haste before consumes?
graceful rock
after
fair phoenix
Well that’s normal… otherwise you’d finish the game in 4 weeks and then float in...
i preefer that lol
frigid prawn
!up
wicked joltBOT
short aurora
we have a thread for the poor gazeless homies?
lilac stag
You will use your champion renown trinket and enjoy it! right @warm marlin ? #oneofus
alpine wraith
you can always use a krangled ass mythic track trink from vault
if you are down bad
you only need it to be like 682 to be better than crucible most of the time
kekw
lilac stag
Imagine having to take a krangled trinket from vault
graceful rock
how long are dances and whats the sec tech cd with 1100 haste
hazy breach
9 globals and ~20s
warm marlin
You will use your champion renown trinket and enjoy it! right <@1357624182519889...
oh yeah for sure
i am very happy!
lilac stag
@alpine wraith though I am debating on crafting bracers over upgrading myth track tier for the haste bump and DS future
warm marlin
i take 3 m+ vaults this tier with multiple raid vault slots at 279
yes yes very good
renown trinket still equipped
and im a yellow class
go next tier perhaps?
lilac stag
i am very happy!
swift tinsel
lilac stag
go next tier perhaps?
I’m waiting for guidon to be BiS in s2 still. 
that seems like a very logical sub rogue timeline
alpine wraith
<@131174440183529472> though I am debating on crafting bracers over upgrading my...
yea i will rock engi wrist+boots
warm marlin
aint no way
alpine wraith
then i can do the switcheroo
swift tinsel
it'll be some weird gimmicky 1.5min on-use
alpine wraith
maybe they unmeme the flask
swift tinsel
after they crater guidon
lilac stag
yea i will rock engi wrist+boots
I got boots from raid. It may actually be helm play
dense geode
9 globals and ~20s
is this why i sim alleria neck for 3k when im at 800 haste? What if I didnt si mas DS tho..
lilac stag
ours went to a Hunter. sadly even upgrade, they’ll do more with it.
swift tinsel
they were the only one to roll against me on a reserve roll
lilac stag
maybe this week my 1400 dps uppy matters from heroic gear
swift tinsel
if myth dagger drops tomorrow our sv will yoink it again
like they did with the first normal and hc one
lilac stag
Our hunter crafted a dagger.
swift tinsel
so did he lol
lilac stag
I was shocked.
warm marlin
Our hunter crafted a dagger.
this is the most illegal thing ive read this tier
lilac stag
The SV cope is real
warm marlin
genuinely
swift tinsel
that class certainly is a meme through and through
lilac stag
something something MM being gutted next week
fickle garnet
Maybe stupid question but does being goblin/gnome alter haste breakpoints?
hazy breach
Maybe stupid question but does being goblin/gnome alter haste breakpoints?
Not really no
lilac stag
meanwhile I’m here like, imagine being good enough to get gutted and still be above all three of my dps choices
swift tinsel
they were adding more tuning to it the other day so its possible but I would be quite surprised
like really really surprised
lilac stag
Ive just given up on trusting anything coming out of hunters and DKs mouths
swift tinsel
nope lmao
though I might be blessed to hear it less since the one in guild that is problematic might be seeing themselves out soon
hunter, that is
lilac stag
I love SV but there’s a reason I won’t run a hunter in prog
random mason
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
muted frigate
do we have an overview for rogue changes in 12.0.5?
alpine wraith
being a human does alter haste breakpoints tho!
you need less from gear
not by a lot but hey
our only change is on trickster
swift tinsel
by s3 it'll be a little bit more than not by a lot!
alpine wraith
the cloud cover it is almost same overall but more bursty
so maybe we have a better role sometimes
still shite st so who knows
keen dome
do we have an overview for rogue changes in 12.0.5?
AoE Blind is back. A crimson vial talent to reduce it on mob kills.
I think that's it
alpine wraith
ah true aoe blind
random mason
the cloud cover it is almost same overall but more bursty
cloud cover for omega add burst
swift tinsel
nah we're gonna get so many insane banger tuning notes on friday
north schooner
so maybe we have a better role sometimes
the role of obstructing ground boss effects
swift tinsel
(ive lost my mind)
white briar
deathstalker mark sniping?
keen dome
nah we're gonna get so many insane banger tuning notes on friday
poison toggle
swift tinsel
I'm full on King Lear
alpine wraith
the role of obstructing ground boss effects
other people cant see it sadly
so it is even better you only grief yourself
in typical rogue fashion
fading whale
praying they make evis benefit nimble
north schooner
ty devs very cool 
muted frigate
AoE Blind is back. A crimson vial talent to reduce it on mob kills.
huh not so exciting, somehow I thought there were actual balancing changes coming aswell
keen dome
I hope there will be
alpine wraith
they might remember us
keen dome
Buff BP, blizz. You know you wanna.
keen dome
+1%
muted frigate
Give me back my 30% on PP
swift tinsel
fix apex clones with potent powderrrrrrr
swift tinsel
make sectech full benefit from apexxxxxxx
keen dome
Poison togggleeeee
swift tinsel
add Precise Cuts to nimbleeeee
fading whale
pad cuts
swift tinsel
hi yes I would like something that would objectively improve our low-target cleave ty
golden totem
i've read some ppl in here sim with double whetsone to emulate the haste breakpoint of robot vs human, is it a meme or do you guys use it to sim top gear and stuff ?
swift tinsel
tack nimble and mass casualty on it
fading whale
im getting sick of frist dance btw
golden totem
not a meme then
alpine wraith
yea it is not a meme
sharp sapphire
first dance could be nice if vanish could trigger it. Staying out of combat or using vanish increases your next shadow dance for 3 secs or something like that. but as it is now I cant see much value in the talent
stuck dune
Hey guys if you’re going into your second dance on aoe and when it comes up you have an apex proc do you BP first then send the dance/ST or send it with the apex up
haughty mural
Poison togggleeeee
slim stag
Hey does anybody know if waekauras again cuz I heard a rumor that they are
fiery fog
stinker
alpine wraith
some mythic tier but eh
coral bear
@vale pine Sorry to tag you, its just I know youre probably the most well placed to know this
I was curious why is Platinum star band and Bifurcation Band our bis Ring?
And not the 2 ring from Nexus-Point that has a 2/2 Equip Effect for free?
I understand the stats it give is both haste, which we dont want to cap,
But why not priotize the 2ring effect, then try to build our gear in function of the stat were missing?
I feel like it would synergize well with Eternal Voidsong Chain aswell,
Let me know if im completely off the chart or if its possible it might be slightly true
My gear ATM
tulip light
<@194804407706189824> Sorry to tag you, its just I know youre probably the most ...
the ring set dmg is super giga omega low and you would need to get both at mythic level
coral bear
But, with the new Reroll system with the confirmed item thingy coming next week
its possible
keen dome
BiS lists are a theoretical maximum sim of the best possible combo that also requires every other piece. They aren't really something to aim for, imho.
tulip light
BiS lists are a theoretical maximum sim of the best possible combo that also req...
that as well
keen dome
You need every single piece on it.
viscid kraken
Hi can i get some help on vault https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8MnYGnQtnyNbjdLR9bSgru
coral bear
I see, just a general idea to follow,
But following that theory, woudnlt it mean that, they simmed the best possibility for the 2 nexus ring passive, and it came out that even that, wasnt max DPS?
Im finding this hard to believe since they deadass just have a free damage passive
That synergizes with the neck
How would I test this?
Is there a way to do like a Sim, of a theoritical gear?
I know theres gear compare but, Is there a way to know my stat weight of a fake character wearing fake gear and then simming it?
coral bear
Hi can i get some help on vault https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8MnYGnQtn...
????????
upper crypt
How would I test this?
Is there a way to do like a Sim, of a theoritical gear?
...
If you take the original input from fuus sim, it should have all of the gear added into it iirc, you can go test combinations in top gear with that
coral bear
BOTH GOATED
viscid kraken
Yeah unsure what to pick tbf
limber folio
Hi can i get some help on vault https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8MnYGnQtn...
i was wondering why you were like 5k dps under me, then i checked trinkets and mainhand
coral bear
damm both are goated
coral bear
If u wanna stay Sub Band is really good
if u multi-spec
PuzzleBox goated
For SIN too
viscid kraken
Yeah don't rly play sin
was wondering if i should pick beloren heroic tho
since i'm low mast the vanguard ring doesnt seem bad either
coral bear
So id like, make a gear compare, following Fuu original BIS, then id make iterations of my own, and see if it out DPS?
viscid kraken
Yeah idk, double active isn't simming correctly atm
so kind've unclear for trinket diff
upper crypt
So id like, make a gear compare, following Fuu original BIS, then id make iterat...
No, open the sim he made and scroll down to original addon input, copy paste that into top gear
swift tinsel
lol didn't realize rogue was the lowest m+ class represented by a whole 2%
coral bear
No, open the sim he made and scroll down to original addon input, copy paste tha...
Oh wait i had no idea there was that, im assuming its in his wowhead, lemme check rq
swift tinsel
oof
upper crypt
Im on mobile atm but i believe he puts all the gear in the sim
upper crypt
Oh wait i had no idea there was that, im assuming its in his wowhead, lemme chec...
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
upper crypt
His sim is on there
coral bear
ur the goat zach
upper crypt
Haha np enjoy the testing
coral bear
amma pfp match with u just cause of that
upper crypt
Hella tough
coral bear
frl frl
If im understanding you proprelly Zach,
this has the BEST DPS SIM, SIMMED
Like, he tested every variations
and this SIM is the most theoritical TOP DPS u can get?
Fuck Fuu is here
upper crypt
there he is LOL
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> Sorry to tag you, its just I know youre probably the most ...
it is a simple sim question, the set did not sim better
coral bear
I see
vale pine
Like, he tested every variations
yes, tho i need to re-run things for the latest update eleem pinned
coral bear
So im just overthinking it
vale pine
so will change soon™
viscid kraken
so will change soon™
So worth switching out 2set for a mastery (heavy) haste ring
upper crypt
yeah, the synergy you mentioned with alleria neck isnt as important as it sounds, i believe we are proccing it asap regardless of having that ring effect
coral bear
yes, tho i need to re-run things for the latest update eleem pinned
Is there a way to do it myself? or like, theres cool stuff admin people in raidbot get to do an entire sim of everything easier than us
vale pine
So worth switching out 2set for a mastery (heavy) haste ring
just throw it in top gear
coral bear
yeah, the synergy you mentioned with alleria neck isnt as important as it sounds...
I see
amber sedge
winner :D
upper crypt
we do a lot of shadow damage
vale pine
there is a text file in #tc-research pinned with all season items
you just need to copy/paste it
vale pine
for the neck effect
coral bear
THank you Zach again, and fuu!
vale pine
subtlety saturates it well without extra items
coral bear
Any predictions on the re-sim ?
for the date
id like to take a look to it as ssoon as its out
dusky yacht
subtlety saturates it well without extra items
I had to explain to a friend why I'm farming the ring set and not using the BiS list rings 💀
Can Rogue be normal please I beg
vale pine
i mean, the ring set is still not bad
so, if it sims better for your gear profile
use it
dusky yacht
It's cause I got myth occlusion and the set would give me haste breakpoint, sims like 2% higher unbuffed
Prolly cause my items don't perfectly line up with the bis list obviously
And the fact that the ring I have is myth, I've simmed the alternatives, I actually do have the bis list rings
So yeah
It was just funny cause he screenshotted your guide and I'm like bro I'm on the server and can ping them if I need to about it, trust me I know what I'm doing lmao
pliant pendant
dose hero give deminishingreturn on haste ?
keen dome
Hero is % iirc, so no.
clear aspen
would you guys send hero crests on a ring or cloak?
seems like no brainer go for cloak for mainstat right?
fleet acorn
warm marlin
seems like no brainer go for cloak for mainstat right?
ring upgrades are pretty strong
i would sim but ring is probably better
clear aspen
how do you sim crest upgrade? just do multiple sims with different upgrade levels to the items?
so one sim with a 276 cloak and one with a 276 ring
warm marlin
ye top gear with however many crests you have
if you can only afford sending one to 276 it will do them separately
dusky yacht
Guys are we so back?
Ngl the cloud cover thing does seem good
Stacking up to 2 additional times
swift tinsel
competing with 10% crit chance on finishers
steel zinc
Guys are we so back?
No
dusky yacht
I mean if it stacks the % damage increase isn't it just better?
sullen hare
see you guys in a couple of patches
dusky yacht
Or is that not how it's gonna work
sullen hare
First of all you're assuming it'll work at all
swift tinsel
10% additional damage taken for 20 sec every 1.5mins or 10% finisher crit chance during dance
steel zinc
10 sec is way to low to actually be worth
dusky yacht
Right yeah like that it makes sense
swift tinsel
whole 22% uptime
steel zinc
It's better what we have now
dusky yacht
I was hopemaxxing
steel zinc
But now we have a talent we never used
sullen hare
Feelycraft tells me that it's not worth the tradeoff and they sent us yet another under baked FRICTION-compliant bullshit talent that we didn't ask for our even want
swift tinsel
idk maybe its good in really really big aoe
fossil forge
You must be new here
sullen hare
That's what I'm expecting. It's probably good in 12 keys at 15+ targets or some dumb bullshit
dusky yacht
I mean it would give us way more burst in blades window
swift tinsel
so would making blades cause all our damage to be shadow
so its not mitigated by armor
and then they can make shadowed finishers cool
since that's basically what that does but only to evisc/bp
still think Dance should do that baseline and then blades can amp it more
than it does
north schooner
shadow-er blades
dusky yacht
But also it would give us another annoying button to press along with guidon
QoL the 10% crit is way better already
Lmao
swift tinsel
yes
keen dome
It just makes Blades an AoE buff zone, will be interesting to see if we swap to it in keys or something
Or on like, big aoe fights
dusky yacht
Yeah couldn't they just .. Put it somewhere else or something
swift tinsel
yeah that's the only real time I could see it being a boon
keen dome
10% crit all the time OR the extra aoE on blades
swift tinsel
if it was on dance that would be giga
dusky yacht
Holy shit yeah that would be insane
keen dome
I'm just gonna wait and see what Fuu and Eleem figure out 'cos they're way smarter than me.
swift tinsel
idk maybe in higher gear when crit chance is less impactful
but that's a bigger maybe
could see it being good in later xpac
since you can grant every mob +24% damage taken
for 20 sec
dusky yacht
Wait but it says 2 addtional times, doesn't that mean 3 stacks of it?
swift tinsel
north schooner
you want them to not update it?
swift tinsel
kinda surprised Cloud Cover isn't a choice node with Devious Distractions
that would make more sense
imo
triple stack fazed in blades vs sectech fazing all targets once
sharp sapphire
but if you reapply fazed around the 19-20s of cloud cover and fazed lasts 10s then that will get you 29-30s of +24% dmg
finite hedge
Yeah 30s of +24% sounds pretty strong
swift tinsel
but if you reapply fazed around the 19-20s of cloud cover and fazed lasts 10s th...
that's not how it works
its 10 sec of Cloud Cover that last 10 sec after that
so 20 seconds
swift tinsel
but the 3x stacks only lasts 20 sec
dusky yacht
"Attacks from within the cloud"
finite hedge
Hm, maybe. It doesn't say that. Someone probably tested on ptr though?
dusky yacht
I think they have a point
shrewd lantern
its just not strong enough
swift tinsel
and then 10 sec after Cloud Cover expires, the 3x stacks persist
shrewd lantern
to compete with the talent its on a node with
swift tinsel
so 20 sec
alpine wraith
it is almost sameish with the one it competes with kinda
swift tinsel
of 3x stacks
alpine wraith
just more bursty
dusky yacht
Isn't that what people were saying we needed tho
I swear like a week ago 3 people started yelling at me that we needed more bursty cooldowns
wide ravine
am i really take this trinket :/ ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/67LRpDDyfnJfRbNsET35do
alpine wraith
if you dont have gaze or puzzlebox yea
but unless vault is omegakrangled i would jsut farm puzzlebox
and take something else
even socket maybe
swift tinsel
it would give you an on-use trinket instead of gaze+rep trinket
wide ravine
i have a crit/hast ring in MM the other slot are bad very bad x)
hollow forum
Sim is higher with 632 haste,gear with haste breakpoint sims 500 lower
Should i listen to the highest sim?
hollow forum
Sry
granite flicker
hi the simc dungeon slice option is ok for sub rogue ?
green blade
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
finite hedge
and then 10 sec after Cloud Cover expires, the 3x stacks persist
Just downloaded PTR to test this. This is not how it works. The effect that lasts 10s past the cloud cover is the ability to apply 3 stacks of fazed. For 20s you reapply 3 stacks. The weird issue is that after those 20s, if you reapply another fazed over it, the three stacks disappear and refresh as 1 stack. Kinda weird. But you can have 3 fazed stacks last 30s
swift tinsel
what you're saying doesn't make sense
swift tinsel
if you have 3 stacks for 20 seconds, then if you apply fazed after that and its 1 stack, that's 20 seconds of 3 stacks
toxic igloo
Anyone ever take Vigor?
swift tinsel
if the buff lasted the entire duration of Blades, then 10 sec after, that would be 30 seconds
finite hedge
True. It's a strange interaction. But it is possible to have it up for 30s, but in practice will never happen most likely because another fazed will overlap
it does last the entire duration
thats what I'm telling you
swift tinsel
then that's bugged
finite hedge
its weird. At the end of blades I have 3 stacks of fazed at 10s
swift tinsel
and unintended
finite hedge
But the very next application overwrites them and goes back to 1 stack
so like, the next unseen blade you proc will go back to 1 stack
swift tinsel
which is how its intended to be
sharp sapphire
so after 20s any new faze application deletes the 3 stacks faze and applies a new 1 stack faze
finite hedge
yes
swift tinsel
yes
if the initial buff is 10 seconds, and the persisting buff is 10 seconds, then it stands to reason the intented interaction is applying Fazed after the 10 sec persisting buff ends would return it to 1 stack
keen dome
I assume it's 'cos the buff ends, the cap revets to 1/1 instead of 1/3
alpine wraith
hmm do we do it
swift tinsel
just a humble mastery farmer
alpine wraith
maybe second rogue gets to enjoy it
swift tinsel
what are stats on tier legs?
alpine wraith
very bad haste vers
vernal drum
alpine wraith
the ring is not horrible at least
leaden prairie
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
graceful rock
Rogue 2 confirmed
lilac stag
hmm do we do it
Wrong stat.
lilac stag
Get 1100 haste.
lilac stag
that’s not 1100
alpine wraith
Wrong stat. <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
going to go full chinese mode on the other one
2100 mastery
grand galleon
frail kindle
is it just me or does this feel like one of the worst balanced tiers in a long time
like specifically in terms of cleave balancing and tank balancing
keen dome
Not really.
frail kindle
like you have guardian druids beating half the specs in the game on the egg
keen dome
One single phase of a single fight isn't the entire tier
void nebula
Or hpally, cause its bad
frail kindle
vdh is basically invisible too but i guess thats because devo and havoc are busted
yeah hpal too
and mm hunters doing 2x the damage other classes do in aoe
void nebula
Outlaw is super bad, but outlaw is always super bad.
frail kindle
eh
outlaw is even bad in low target cleave now
which has historically never been the case
warm marlin
is it just me or does this feel like one of the worst balanced tiers in a long t...
yes
blindfolded tuning
warm marlin
you'd think it would've gotten easier with a simplification
plush roost
Wdym its so balanced bro. U have 3 mm hunters on one side of the scale, and 17 other classes on the other side and it balances out
warm marlin
oh but it's just the low target cleave bug/niche that mm is abusing
ripe flame
I blame the fight designs on voidspire
warm marlin
as they play triple aug triple mm on every fight
swift tinsel
in the big paladin tier as well
plush roost
Yeah that... just dont look at their ST in keys
swift tinsel
meanwhile aren't prot and holy paladins dying
plush roost
Or their "i delete this pack/mob" in hard keys
swift tinsel
yeah ret really carrying the paladin banner which is funny
ashen warren
is there an importance of doing first SB or SD in the macro ?
void nebula
The fact Outlaw isn't good at low target cleave atm is criminal.
swift tinsel
as one of the only good melee specs currently (and I use melee loosely as they're half-ranged)
lilac stag
balancing is fine. rogue just justifying their low play rate by being garbage
plush roost
Good comms
frail kindle
top 3 egregious examples top of my head are bear druid all their damage still being tied into incarn leading them to doing 200k on egg phase beating half the dps in the game, prot paladin being basically a dps with a shield extremely squishy but insane damage, and then mm hunter just doing 2x the damage of every other class in the game
and i guess aug
lucid jackal
Wdym its so balanced bro. U have 3 mm hunters on one side of the scale, and 17 o...
Did you know mm are getting buffed
And Devourer
vernal drum
@vale pine on both of you sim as sub rogue trickster i can't find wich weapons buff u use, oil ? or stone ?
lucid jackal
?
warm marlin
yeah our dh told us about dev getting a 5% st buff and survivability buff and massive large aoe buff with .5
swift tinsel
based
warm marlin
very interesting
keen dome
I guess they gave it to the wrong purple spec
swift tinsel
west tide
will it be more goated than aug now
lilac stag
<@194804407706189824> on both of you sim as sub rogue trickster i can't find wic...
Default is oil
frail kindle
yeah our dh told us about dev getting a 5% st buff and survivability buff and ma...
alright now im bitching
swift tinsel
what the fuck is this game anymore lmao
warm marlin
listen to this right, you pop souls from every mob you hit which give you a damage buff for each one you pick up
but they're capped at like 20% damage total from stacks
except they're just removing the cap with .5
quaint lodge
oh thats nice
keen dome
lmao what the heck
quaint lodge
thank u
keen dome
that's hilarious
west tide
its chill dude if this is the new balancing and they dont give a gaf
quaint lodge
in honor of this info -5% rogue ST to sub rogue cuz they found a new build
west tide
that means when its OUR turn
quaint lodge
lets balance this correctly
west tide
we will be so op
keen dome
I personally can't wait to see all devourers rip aggro and instantly explode on AA pulls.
lilac stag
we will be so op
keep dreaming lil gup
frail kindle
bro isnt .5 literally like next week
swift tinsel
2x blur charges
swift tinsel
and banger self-heal in .5
lilac stag
no dream its just inevitable
Followed by the -10% aura nerf hotfixed by the weekend
frail kindle
we will be so op
i want this level of copium
west tide
its not cope bro
warm marlin
bro isnt .5 literally like next week
my devourer got 2pc this week
west tide
its inevitable
warm marlin
scaling up
lilac stag
@warm marlin are you off rogue yet?
swift tinsel
I'm playing rogue as little as possible to maintain my raid spot
warm marlin
<@135762418251988992> are you off rogue yet?
probably not for a while in raid at least
swift tinsel
raid log and 8 +10's
warm marlin
lura needs die
swift tinsel
and professions to burn concentration lol
lilac stag
probably not for a while in raid at least
Just find some smuck to be your replacement.
keen dome
i'll do it
median nacelle
what buff u guys run in acad?
swift tinsel
mastery usually
median nacelle
same
lilac stag
i'll do it
Wrong continent
frail kindle
okay wait so this devourer buff isnt a meme
keen dome
Wrong continent
damn, I can't believe I've been foiled
frail kindle
theyre actually just getting turbo buffed .5?
sharp sapphire
but we get void bloodfang armor... its a buff in our appereance
warm marlin
theyre actually just getting turbo buffed .5?
yes
median nacelle
i heard it could hit dr tho? cause it gives equivalent of whatever % in rating points?
frail kindle
jesus christ
median nacelle
and haste buff doesnt
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> on both of you sim as sub rogue trickster i can't find wic...
it uses phoenix oil, which is the default
median nacelle
dno if it matters
swift tinsel
idk if it does dr on mastery then take crit if you want
frail kindle
wallahi we're all cooked
vale pine
<@194804407706189824>
haha, let me fix
warm marlin
why is our MM Hunter saying they’re getting nuked. I need the real tea.
idk our hunter hasnt talked about it
median nacelle
idk if it does dr on mastery then take crit if you want
ya fair
frail kindle
i mean hopefully lol
unironically whats the point of playing anything but devourer or mm hunter
i feel like an idiot playing rogue xd
swift tinsel
MM getting explosive shot back kekw
keen dome
unironically whats the point of playing anything but devourer or mm hunter
'cos Rogue is cooler
swift tinsel
Precise Shots nerf but baseline dmg buffs to the abilities it buffed
swift tinsel
lmao okay yeah reading the MM notes for 12.0.5 are hilarious
keen dome
we're given the toughest battles because we're the coolest class
plush roost
Did you know mm are getting buffed
Ye that shit aint lasting 2 weeks
frail kindle
bro it definitely might LMFAO
swift tinsel
frail kindle
ive lost all faith in blizz balancing
plush roost
Thats my theory why they wont tune mm this tier
Same shit happened to outlaw btw
In s3
warm marlin
another full mm rework as they get every patch
plush roost
I talked to a blizz dev friend and "we dont wanna waste resource tuning something being reworked"
So s3tww outlaw was just beans
warm marlin
every single patch btw
swift tinsel
now is Midnight beans
warm marlin
mm has a full page of changes
plush roost
Like devour changes
Theres no world
It masts
Lasts
Uncapped feast of souls AINTNOWAY
swift tinsel
yeah that's a literal insaneo move
considering how fast it ramps once you get going
swift tinsel
I've been Snootboopin' on the aug
just a lil bit bc I haven't been wanting to play much of anything lately
tame notch
adamantite sharpening stone still working? anyone knows?
hazy breach
Hmm so with the DS stuff this alleria neck was an 1.7% upgrade despite me having the same ilvl already
I love breakpoints
swift tinsel
they definitely haven't been making me want to stab my eyes out
surely the best possible way to integrate haste into the spec
does not need any iterating since it was introduced in November
aging like fine wine
maybe in another six months they decide to do nothing about it still
plush roost
Hmm so with the DS stuff this alleria neck was an 1.7% upgrade despite me having...
Hey does lingering darkness still affect trinkets and items shadow damage...
harsh gale
When is our next buff
swift tinsel
plush roost
When is our next buff
Next tuesday
keen dome
When is our next buff
friday, I can feel it
plush roost
Pog
plush roost
Alleria neck stocks ^^^
hazy breach
Also still not affecting sectech
keen dome
my choice to take it that first week continues to pay off.
plush roost
Well yeah duh
ripe flame
Also still not affecting sectech
Well silly mistake, that is not an item
plush roost
Its your shadow damage
swift tinsel
makes me even more annoyed the hc one that dropped last night went to the havoc
keen dome
Yeah
plush roost
makes me even more annoyed the hc one that dropped last night went to the havoc
.. you mean devour surely
keen dome
Can't buff pet damage
swift tinsel
sometimes I wish our guild actually fucking looked at what gear was actually good for who
plush roost
Haste on havoc
swift tinsel
.. you mean devour surely
narp
plush roost
No way
swift tinsel
yeppers
plush roost
No fluffin way
swift tinsel
I put it up for a reserve roll and he was the only other person who did
idfk why
idfk how
plush roost
Devour arc surely...
plush roost
Nah bro dats messed up
harsh gale
Is anyone here actually full BIS
swift tinsel
oh nvm he went dev last night for the first time ever
was checks notes below tanks across all attempts
harsh gale
What gear did you get hoed out of
magic orchid
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
shrewd lantern
Is anyone here actually full BIS
Probably not because the guilds that have access to the entire loot table bench their rogues.
swift tinsel
on crown
swift tinsel
What gear did you get hoed out of
hc alleria neck
harsh gale
My guild puts me in for every fight. I'm a single digit grey parser
shrewd lantern
well most decent guilds you get benched on paladins and alleria
i.e the only real bosses on voidspire
harsh gale
Parsed a 0 on mythic dragons and a 7 on paladins
swift tinsel
I've gotten ripped out of vora dagger's first drop in both difficulties (n/hc) to the sv hunter who had a 2h equipped
and if it happens on myth I will leave
harsh gale
Haptics it's time you switch guilds buddy. We hear you but idk if you hear yourself
celest ice
well most decent guilds you get benched on paladins and alleria
idk about decent but i need to bring my hunter alt to paladins it seems otherwise its bench 😄
keen dome
I've gotten ripped out of vora dagger's first drop in both difficulties (n/hc) t...
this is criminal behaviour
swift tinsel
its ffa loot
outer flare
Ya u don’t wait u leave now bucko
swift tinsel
if I leave I'm probs just done with the game tbh
keen dome
need on all the guns
swift tinsel
lmao I wish
harsh gale
You're putting up with hoe like behavior in a heroic raiding guild buddy. Open your eyes
swift tinsel
they're friends I've raided with for the last six years
keen dome
Just think, you could experince it in a pug group that you could walk out of
become the puglord
swift tinsel
this season is odd bc normally we don't have new people (like the sv and havoc) get to roll against people who are on the mythic raid team til they get stuff
and I wasn't made aware of that until after it happened
bc that's still in place for tier at least
keen dome
it sounds like shit behaviour imo
harsh gale
There is nothing we can tell you then. You have a rebuttal for everything
swift tinsel
There is nothing we can tell you then. You have a rebuttal for everything
tbf I wasn't seeking advice
keen dome
I have advice for you
harsh gale
Keep that same energy for the ones actually doing something to you. Not someone who's bitter
keen dome
lilac stag
The advice was play DH or DK 6 weeks ago o 
swift tinsel
The advice was play DH or DK 6 weeks ago o <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
and then have even less raid loot lmao
harsh gale
I'm a full time arms warrior now
swift tinsel
https://tenor.com/view/kill-it-with-fire-missiles-more-missiles-all-the-missiles...
where does one aquire a missle launch board
bc this is tempting
lilac stag
and then have even less raid loot lmao
You would have flexed on them
harsh gale
He wasn't seeking advice
keen dome
well I'm an advice seeking missile
lilac stag
He wasn't seeking advice
At some point the new folks will realize @keen dome, @swift tinsel and @lilac stag Are just sarcasticly bantering poor life choices.
swift tinsel
lmao yep pretty much
lilac stag
hah I can tag myself. Amazing tech.
swift tinsel
did not know that was possible either hahaha
keen dome
That's funny
odd knoll
!ui
wicked joltBOT
Essential:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
Quality of Life:
Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
Mute Cold Blood sound
**The first dance tracker
keen dome
I can never swap off Rogue because it's where all my /played is.
swift tinsel
my paladin is still top bc it was my only max-level toon from BC to probs mid to late Wotlk
and my go-to healer until BFA
fuck glimmer
lilac stag
I can never swap off Rogue because it's where all my /played is.
My advice is get your account banned, and start a new account in a better class.
swift tinsel
I bet your rogue has enough /played to restore itself from the deletion grave
lilac stag
You’d stop at level 20 into leveling
weak horizon
Trying to get into sub but for me the hardest thing is figuring out the stats. I mean it makes sense, but chasing after particular items or picking missives is the hard part. Because in raid I'm finding it's mostly haste/mastery, but in keys it's mastery/crit and a lil haste. Any suggestions?
keen dome
You’d stop at level 20 into leveling
I've leveled 5 rogues
swift tinsel
Trying to get into sub but for me the hardest thing is figuring out the stats. ...
aim for 700 haste then whatever crit/mastery comes along with that
can get that haste amount from gear/gems/mana oil/flask
keen dome
Yeah, precisely that. Haste to 700 -> crit+mastery.
swift tinsel
800 if you don't have Guidon trinket yet
lilac stag
I've leveled 5 rogues
serene notch
Isn’t the main point of haste to be able to fit two sectecs into blades window? If so why would our BIs trinket be an on use haste trinket if we already have enough hate to fit two sectecs into blades?
weak horizon
Alright sounds good
swift tinsel
Isn’t the main point of haste to be able to fit two sectecs into blades window? ...
its for more dance globals
hazy breach
Isn’t the main point of haste to be able to fit two sectecs into blades window? ...
No the main point is more dance gcds
But yes sectech is the reason why the pin says 800 if you dont have guidon
lilac stag
Dave likes haste.
Dave likes to dance.
Be like Dave.
hazy breach
The numbers recommended in the pin are the points at which sectech cd and dance duration increase somewhat aligns