subtlety

[dusky yacht]

And now I can't get a stupid set ring from a dungeon

Bro I played jungle ranked

Anxious doesn't even begin to describe it

I got to plat and I just gave up the community is ass

Worse than some puggers in dungeon finder

Also the matchmaking system is so cringe, I'm convinced it tries to force you to 50% winrate, I would get huge winrate %s for a while like 20+ winstreaks

And then suddenly every single team I got was toxic as hell or trolling

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-friend-i-have-no-enemies-HPuGOIECwpK49qkxE1

[fossil forge]

The higher u go the worse it gets

[dusky yacht]

Yeah at least the guys in iron (it was a very old account so it downranked all the way to iron 4 which is where I started from)

Those guys were trying their best often times

I mean they could barely move in the correct direction but they were trying

[dry flame]

Yeah, i casually play Rivals with my friend, we usually just chill high plat/low diamond and its same everywhere

[dusky yacht]

I completely burned myself out learning jungle

I was studying challenger players gameplay taking notes watching korean game recordings all that shit lmao

Was a total waste of time tbh I didn't even enjoy the game after a while

Eh I'm gonna stfu about league not relevant here lmao

[dry flame]

more league talk, we should go to #off-topic XD

[dusky yacht]

Yeah dw I'll stfu

Night folks I'll be back for more complaining about omission later

[dry flame]

I just don't wanna hijack the channel for other topics thats all

[dry flame]

best of luck

[dusky yacht]

Nah dw you're good I just also don't wanna talk about it anymore lmao, game's not worth discussing in the first place

[gilded thistle]

for the record, this is actually the goal of matchmaking systems

getting you to 50% wr means you're considered to be fighting people of the appropriate skill level

[dusky yacht]

What it was doing wasn't increasing the skill of my enemies, it was decreasing the skill of my teammates

And attitudes etc

[hollow spear]

That's an urban myth I'm afraid

[gilded thistle]

yeah nah

your anecdotal experience does not correlate with any real data

sorry bud

[dusky yacht]

So my match stats of hundreds of games played where I analysed what was happening every game and so on doesn't correlate to any real data

[gilded thistle]

yes

[dusky yacht]

Anyway like I said I don't wanna keep talking about this here

[gilded thistle]

probably because you didn't actually analyze anything, and are just saying that to try and justify your point

but oh well, good night

[dusky yacht]

So basically no matter what I say or experienced it doesn't matter only your opinion on it matters

ok.jpg

[spring wing]

not sure if CoEE is simming correctly yet or not. Maxed CoEE or hero track Alnseer for raid prog?

[hollow spear]

Gaze

[spring wing]

okay so sims on CoEE are accurate

thanks

[tribal blade]

somebody shoot this guy already

[fossil forge]

Rogue so broken guys !!!

[hollow spear]

The sanguine vial talent will get you invites to M+ dw

Ds meta 12.0.5?

[tribal blade]

it's like an EMT sticking a bandaid on a gunshot wound and being like "there, all better"

[short radish]

i dont think i've hated a person as much as this guy

if he's been pretending this entire time

it's pretty well done

[tribal blade]

nah. there's no way lol

no way he's pretending

[keen dome]

Surprisingly good to use

[short radish]

idk some people are just comitted to a bit

[short radish]

like tomrus on wowhead comments

[tribal blade]

25k posts

[hollow spear]

He reads you two seething about him here and gets immediately erect

[short radish]

yeah i mean who here hasn't done a mild amount of trolling before

[keen dome]

He is a very powerful poster

[short radish]

i did this on lura LFR

and had a bit of a giggle

[hollow spear]

What are you doing in lfr?

[short aurora]

hahaha

[hollow spear]

Alt no 8?

[tribal blade]

HAHA

[short radish]

6

[hollow spear]

Apologies

[tribal blade]

SIX SEVENNNN

[keen dome]

Amazing

[short radish]

tbh i was rather proud of myself

[tribal blade]

i dunno what i expected from a moonguard player

[keen dome]

Has anybody tried the ol' funny "damn these players are good" in training grounds yet

[short radish]

i kinda felt bad because he was doing a very good and heartfelt job at raid leading LFR

but i couldn't resist

[hollow spear]

Raid leading lfr

[short radish]

bro those players are good

[keen dome]

You could get some very funny responses in comp stomp by being adamant the enemy team were players

[hollow spear]

I'd rather herd cats

[short radish]

the rogue is like 1.8k rated or something

if he opens on you at like 60% hp and you have no healer nearby

gg you

[tribal blade]

i've watched their mages iceblock at 1 hp twice in a row in the same match

god level reaction timing

[short radish]

but yeah im gonna try this when i farm neck. ty

[hollow spear]

Fimbul stuck in loser's queue on training grounds

[tidal solstice]

this one is so good with my resto druid that has the first sergeant title

[dry flame]

That's the hardest RL can be, tbf

[tribal blade]

i won every training grounds bg by yelling instructions at each team

[keen dome]

Nah, raid leading lfr is easy

[dry flame]

it's like a special needs program

[tribal blade]

if you can get the monkeys to not fight on the roads and sit at basees

you win

[keen dome]

It's the easiest raid to lead because you don't have to do anything and each wipe you get stronger

[hollow spear]

I'm sure people in lfr have their chats turned off

[dry flame]

you will succeed even when you fail - but to actually raid lead them, you need Tom Cruise for that mission

[short radish]

bro that warrior RL was calling out the shape combinations and everything

and people were still getting it wrong

it was insane

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

that's insane lfr lura still has memory game

[keen dome]

Yeah that's also true in normal

Remember lfr nzoth

[tribal blade]

i would expect it to be like 2 symbols or something

[dry flame]

was just about to say that haha

[tribal blade]

yeah they usually do a very good job of dummy proofing lfr

[short radish]

its still 3

i think it just doesnt do damage

[dry flame]

tbf, people were fucking up LFR voidspire week 1 too, tanks didn't know how to tic-tac-toe

[short radish]

i dont recall wiping to that bit

[tribal blade]

oh ok

[short radish]

what does kill you is 2 ppl sending a beam to the same orb

[tribal blade]

so why is it even there then hrm

[short radish]

sense of pride and accomplishment

[fallow nimbus]

Did you know that you can shut off the bg npcs with distract?

[dry flame]

people failed L'ura memory game in normal too, and healers just outhealed it

[tribal blade]

that's crazy if that works

[tidal solstice]

i can singlehandedly distract 3-4 bots for a solid 20+ seconds staggering them after a rez in AB or gilneas

which allows my team to just shred them as they stagger in 1 by 1 or 2 by 2

[tribal blade]

you can also spam sap them when they're incoming to a base

[tidal solstice]

yeh

[tribal blade]

because they'll sometimes insta trinket

like idiots

[tidal solstice]

distract though is HILAROUS

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, or distract them in arathi to capture a base

[tidal solstice]

those mf will sit there a solid 5-8 seconds

[keen dome]

That's just real behaviour though

[tribal blade]

LOL true

that was always funny against an actual player

such an easy win

[keen dome]

The amount of arenas I've done where sprinting out and sapping people caused two trinkets to go off...

[tribal blade]

yeah dumb people using the proc one

[keen dome]

Not even that, just some people at low MR will trinket on a sap

It's funny.

And then you'd shadowy duel them (rip) and they'd explode

[loud gyro]

is it an addon for having that chat?

[short radish]

chattynator

[loud gyro]

nice, ty. it looks clean

[ionic star]

Has anybody knows which buff is better in Algeth'ar Academy?

[vale pine]

Good morning lovely people

[keen dome]

I think I just take Versa since it's 5%. Whereas the mastery one is raw stat which brings in issues with DR etc, esp with puzzle box / flask.

[keen dome]

[dry flame]

For sub, mastery i always take, but i also dont play sub above a 14

[ionic star]

5%? Isn't it 3%?

[keen dome]

It is very possibly 3% and I forgot 'cos it used to be 5%

[dry flame]

afaik everything is 5 except vers

[keen dome]

Mastery would be the go-to if it wasn't the actual stat

[ionic python]

Mastery is 7% on sub

[dusky yacht]

Good mornin’

I can’t sleep smh

[humble furnace]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3QpB2r17bu2YbW23zJLPpj
Does this look right? currently at 796 haste, seems a bit high O _ o

[dry flame]

this deathstalker sim?

[humble furnace]

trickster

[dry flame]

oh yeah, just opened it

[humble furnace]

like even if i simply swap my crafted pieces to crit/mastery still dps loss
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jMq4M7Wy13w1ocKeePDgaC

[dry flame]

796 haste is big overkill yeah

you probably have a bunch of pieces in bags, what does sim say?

[humble furnace]

Its not telling me to drop any haste

[dry flame]

I would say strange, but simming has been super weird for me on Sub

i kinda just eyeball the tier at this point

this was me with oils and mastery flask earlier i posted

[verbal hedge]

Can I get some help with this log? I have been comparing with rogues with similar ilvl and htey are doing significantly more dps (~25%) but I don't see anything fundamnetally wrong with the rotation or use of resources:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fr7mT2QJaNBDtzXq?fight=9&type=damage-done&source=1

[dry flame]

you lust pull and you waste half of your Blades by not shadow dancing

[verbal hedge]

Dont we hold the second dance to cast it with secret technique during lust?

[hazy breach]

I think it's to fit a second sectech inside your shadow blades since you are using puzzlebox

I'll look into it a bit more

[dry flame]

You still fit it, just not supercharged

You wanna dance for the last part of blades

and then afaik its always the case if u have guidon

[verbal hedge]

that for all SB or just on the pull with lust?

[dry flame]

Your boss dmg is not bad for ilvl though

prio add dmg is a bit low

[dry flame]

just lust, since no guidon

[humble furnace]

I am at 764 haste, not 796, i had buffs on from m+.

every top rogue I look at on wowarmory, theyre stats are often similar, often around 700ish haste.

If the sim is relying on me doing something odd with sectec that I am potentionally not doing, maybe worth to drop some haste? Does it expects me to hold my dance for a few seconds to overlap another sectec with puzzle and blades? doesnt sound too bad but im deff not actively doing that currently.

Thanks for your input

[dry flame]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/fr7mT2QJaNBDtzXq/czpNRrmqVbdyYKJ3?fight=9%2C5&type=damage-done&comparesearchmetric=dps&source=1%2C董小静子

Here is you compared to the top rogue in your ilvl bracket and similar kill time

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/fr7mT2QJaNBDtzXq/czpNRrmqVbdyYKJ3?fight=9%2C5&type=casts&comparesearchmetric=dps&source=1%2C董小静子&view=events

you can compare casts too

[verbal hedge]

I can see him doing more padding but not sure why his eviscerate does 12k more than mine n average hit

[dry flame]

and almost half the Shadowblades dmg

he also doesn't try fitting 2nd ST at all

just covers the last part of his Blades

and then STs with a 3rd dance

[tribal blade]

more important to have dance fully covering blades

than fitting a 2nd sectec i imagine

[dry flame]

Seems so, even during lust pull

[tribal blade]

with lust it's no issue getting sectec in 2nd dance

[dry flame]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[tribal blade]

just rip your 2nd dance when blades has 8 secs left then hit sectec the instant it comes off cd

[grave cove]

Can anyone tell my why raidbots thinks I can't afford to make a mythic belt when I have the mats for it? It only let's me make heroic

[dry flame]

are you still not wasting 6-8 sec of Blades then?

[tribal blade]

typo

didn't mean to type 2

[weary tree]

how are you trying to do it?

[grave cove]

I'm tryina sim making my mythic sub belt that's it. I already have a mythic weapon and 259 boots. Does that effect it?

I have the sparks/crests for it

[weary tree]

No. But you can just add it in top gear and when you type the ilvl click the right ilvl on the right:

By 'crafting levels'

[grave cove]

Oh that's nice I'll try that

ty

[hearty steeple]

hey guys, the guide says around 18% haste we should play, now iam comfortable around 15% (oils included) and iam top dps most runs beating metas, but does that affect shadow tech? coz i noticed the challenge is not energy but rather GCD, and even if i increased haste, i dont see better performance in terms of GCD ?

[tame terrace]

rogue doesnt get lower gcd with haste

we are flat 1 sec gcd

[weary tree]

The haste has to do with dance duration

Not your gc

Also dont look at the % of haste, but the amount. You need ~700 which can be difference % depending on your gear

[hearty steeple]

okkkkkkk

well thats complete pov i never noticed

thanks a lot guys

[dry flame]

@verbal hedge I know it wasn't a super straight forward answer, but hopefully the compare logs give you some idea of what you can change

[grave cove]

Can anyone tell me why raidbots thinks a 266 Emberwing Feather is better than a 263 Light Company Guidon when Guidon gives more haste with a lower cooldown and 0 penalty? They're both 15 sec as well

It makes 0 sense to me in any scenario cuz the Feather also might decrease a secondary stat

[dry flame]

Single target Sim?

[grand hemlock]

Is guidon better than puzzle box?

[dry flame]

For single target yes

[grand hemlock]

Debating whether to prioritize it for vault tomorrow if it appears

[dry flame]

Are you gonna be playing Assa also?

[grand hemlock]

I don't think so, pretty sure just sub this season (was previously outlaw)

[dry flame]

Then probably Guidon, since the difference is not huge, and Guidon just feels better to use

Altho, if you know you'll get a kill on myth, maybe do that first and see if it drops for you

[grand hemlock]

Dealio

[hazy breach]

Presumably its a dslice sim, it typically has a large number of mobs at around 2 minutes

[grave cove]

Dslice is actually suggesting 272 Kroluk's Warbanner

Prolly cuz of the boss fights?

[hazy breach]

Its an alright trinket, but the crucible is usually better

[dry flame]

I was told it was bait Sim trinket (warbanner)

Also, yeah, still using crucibal, even tho I have myth Guidon and myth puzzlebox. Hopefully my myth vault slot carries tomorrow

[verbal hedge]

is fine, thanks! Other than the opener and the padding still a bit unclear what I am doing wrong but gonan comapre the logs

[dry flame]

The main thing is not dancing during your blades

[verbal hedge]

should we always be casting 2 dancing during the blades regardless of ST?

[grave cove]

What you mean not dancing during blades? He should be dancing during blades right?

I'm reading out of context so not sure what's being said

[dry flame]

He is basically holding 2nd dance for ST during blades, so half of it is just backstabbing

[grave cove]

Backstabbing feels dookie

[grave cove]

You're telling me 263 crucible is better than MYTHIC Guidon and Puzzlebox?

[dry flame]

No, but I wouldn't use 2 on use together

Individually they are better

[grave cove]

Yeah I'm assuming Guidon+Gaze all the way unless you're pushing high M+ then swap Guidon for Box?

[hazy breach]

Just go guidon+gaze at all times

[grave cove]

I got lucky enough to get 1 in vault and another in raid so any mythic trinket in my vault is kinda useless till I get Guidon or Gaze again lol

Only champ lvl but I feel like they're still better than anything else, even non-bis mythic trinks

[dry flame]

I am trying my best man, killing heroic/mythic Chim weekly, getting vault slot prepped, Gaze just won't look at me

This past week, 91 roll, and five people rolled over 95 (winner 99)

[hazy breach]

I have a plume, which is a fine replacement for gaze

[grave cove]

Plume seems pretty nice

[dry flame]

so far, 2 belo kills HC no plume has dropped unfortunately

but also i can't do much more content pugging solo

ive plato-ed a bit

[grave cove]

There's no limit to how many items you can have crafted (and sent to mythic) right? Just embellishments? Srry for the plethora of questions I'm just having a really hard time deciding my vault before reset

[dry flame]

sparks-gated

2 embelishments but no total limit, that's correct

[grave cove]

Alright cuz I went outlaw initially and made the sword/boots. Tomorrow imma upgrade boots to myth AND craft myth belt w/embellisment. Was fretting if I was making a mistake but I guess with infinite (eventually) crafting there are no big mistakes in the longrun

[dry flame]

if you are playing also sub/assa, you dont wanna craft dagger ?

off-hand weap is also quite good for Outlaw, right?

[grave cove]

Yeah it is but I made the sword first and outlaw just feels bad atm

Basically I should've just made dagger no matter what build but oh well

[hollow spear]

Y'all can gaze at my plume

[ornate lake]

Am I bad or is it just the class design issue that I get aura farmed by unholy, mages, dh, demo lock, warriors and hunters on gigapulls?

However I shine on boss damage though

I thought this is the season of the powder

[hollow spear]

Imo it's better than previous seasons, but we're still behind a selection of other classes in big pulls

They gain more from lust than we do also

[hazy breach]

The pulls need to be long

[hollow spear]

I feel like I'm doing better on the pulls after though

[hazy breach]

We are not nearly as much of a burst spec as we used to be unfortunately

[hollow spear]

The issue with our burst window in previous seasons was that our damage was at its peak when all the pad fodder had died already

Imagine if flag worked like the araz trinket

[plain cradle]

is there a spot we can see our stat weights after we do a top sim? Like the raw value of X Haste/Master/Crit etc.

[weary tree]

Stat weights aren't accurate

Don't look at those

Just do a droptimizer or top gear

[plain cradle]

I did a top gear. I want to know the exact haste value sim is giving me.

[weary tree]

For sub right now

Just get to 700 haste

And don't worry about it anymore

[plain cradle]

im aware.

[weary tree]

No value can be put on it

Stat weights won't tell you

I get that you're trying to do it, but it won't help you and trying to do so will teach you wrong habits about how to get the best gear

[hazy breach]

Not conveniently no

[plain cradle]

whats the not easy way

digging through raw input?

[hazy breach]

Press the ... next to whatever sim result you want to see and do a quick sim with it

Then check the full html report > scroll down to stats

[verbal kelp]

If I'm being given PI is it worth taking puzzle box over guidon?

[hazy breach]

You should never be given PI

Unironically better to put it on a tank (unless your tank is brewmaster ig)

But no Pi doesnt change the trinket recommendations

[weary tree]

Who did you pay to get PI holy

[verbal kelp]

nobody im just in a low guild and always top dps by far, so they give me PI and all loot lol

[weary tree]

Neat

Enjoy

[short aurora]

My man is Living the life

[weary tree]

Back to the days when assa got pi

[blissful ivy]

It definitely works on big pulls in dungs

[weary tree]

It mean it will always work

Just depends on how much

[blissful ivy]

If it's noticeable by feeling then it works enough

[verbal kelp]

yeah was debating switching to assa in raids because of PI, but already got used to playing sub in raid and assa in m+

[dry flame]

i 'member Mythic Sludge in castle nathria, you get Pi on assa for the first charge...

[weary tree]

The good old days

[dry flame]

kinda same, but might reclear HC as assa for logs next week, depends if i get something good in vault

@keen dome i really want Gaze in my mythic slot, so i'll be opening in outlaw spec tomorrow - i could use the Vora dagger, but i really wanna limit the loot pool

[weary tree]

You sure you can't get an outlaw weapon?

[keen dome]

smort

[weary tree]

Not much limiting that way then

[keen dome]

I only have 1st and Chim killed so it doesn't change anything for me

[dry flame]

from first 2 in voidspire + mythic chim, no outlaw weaps

[weary tree]

damn ok

roguemaxxing

[keen dome]

It's still 5 tier slot items, bad trinket, belt, helm, cloak, boots and then two good trinkets. So a solid 2/12 chance

Watch it be mythic snot though

[dry flame]

• i have champ track outlaw weap, so worst case i get an upgrade for that

[weary tree]

But then you have to play outlaw

[dry flame]

i play outlaw when i help friends in like 10-12s

[keen dome]

if I get mythic snot as my choice I'm gonna be so upset

[weary tree]

I should get juiced next reset

Doing mythic splits

[keen dome]

But at least, hopefully, I can rekill extremely easily tomorrow

[weary tree]

Been de-prio'd because of prog but now birb

[keen dome]

A literal median log and a kill, should be easy to get into the good groups

[dry flame]

for you 1 in 8 for gaze,
for me 1 in 11

[keen dome]

it's more than 8, isn't it?

[dry flame]

4 items from Imperator, 4 from Chim

[keen dome]

And 5 tier items

[weary tree]

Keep in mind that it's not from kills that week, but kills in total

[keen dome]

Tier can roll regardless of bosses killed

[dry flame]

oh

[keen dome]

Yeah

[dry flame]

yeah im fucked

1 in 16

[keen dome]

So it's actually 1 in 13?

[weary tree]

odds are in the bin my man

[dry flame]

1 in 17 if i open as sub/sin

[weary tree]

last week 6 people in my guild got mythic gaze

[keen dome]

they should give it to us

[weary tree]

yep

[jade oasis]

you guys still need mythic gaze?

[keen dome]

the ideal and dream of tomrorow is Gaze in vault, then I killed Imperator and win guidon, helm and cloak

[weary tree]

shut up

[jade oasis]

just have yalls loot council give it to yall bro

come on

it’s that simple

[keen dome]

i killed it in a pug

also none even dropped

lmao

[weary tree]

I got the first normal gaze

And then fuck all

[keen dome]

At least if they add dinars I can just buy it someday

[jade oasis]

i got chosen over 3 dks and 2 mages for gaze

bc im #goated

[weary tree]

Scammed

Gazes only dropped when we were doing pala progress

So they didnt wanna give to me

Cus bench

[jade oasis]

i thought they stated they weren’t doing it this season

[dry flame]

i lost 91 roll on myth gaze on reclear this last week (five people rolled over 95, winner 99)

[keen dome]

Probably not but a boy can hope

[dry flame]

6.25% i get it in vault tomorrow

[jade oasis]

atleast chimaerus is a joke of a fight so you’ll have plenty of chances

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/latenightseth-seth-meyers-lnsm-1qhAeOZnZUm8oEauce

[keen dome]

Again, pugs lmao

Although it is pretty chill once people do mechanics and kicks.

[dry flame]

you do not even realize your premade privilege - you disgust me

[keen dome]

And I imagine a good group on reset is gonna get it to like 45% in P1

[dry flame]

if the group actually is reclear, its fine - i killed it in 3 pulls this week

but yeah, its always a gamble with pugs

[keen dome]

yeah

I got invited to like four "CE ONLY" groups for some reason and every single one was a chaos bed of nonsense. Which, I mean, they invited me without a CE so that's the red flag.

My fav was the one with a load of Famed Slayer people and the raid lead is just standing there. And he goes "okay let's give it a try" without putting markers down, assigning groups, madness soaks, anything.

[lilac stag]

Should have sent them the tacktyks guide praising rogue for that fight.

[keen dome]

And then it was a mechanic at a time as it became more and more obvious he didn't even know heroic mechanics, let alone mythic.

[keen dome]

comfy babies

[dry flame]

for legal reasons, im joking btw

i have no enemies

[weary tree]

wasn't out by that time yet 🙁

[lilac stag]

Instantly posted in our paladin thread.

[weary tree]

Hahah

Posted by you as well

[vivid spindle]

Can somebody help me how to inprove my logs? Im quite new to rogue and didnt play wow for 9years now😅 (Sarassassin) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qaxF2vYCdfWw6MyH?fight=30&type=damage-done

[lilac stag]

Gotta promote yourself, no one will do it for you.

[lilac stag]

Someone more than likely will be happy to give feedback. Use !log for it

[vivid spindle]

Just like..

!log

[jade oasis]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[jade oasis]

@vivid spindle

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[jade oasis]

@vivid spindle make sure you’re doing this aswell

[vivid spindle]

Alright, i will focus on tracking this for now

Im optimistic that stuff will work out for me now

[hazy breach]

In practice this sorts itself out if you just dont finish right before youre gonna dance

Which you should be doing either way

[jade oasis]

only time you actually need to think abt it is 2nd dance in blades right?

[lilac stag]

All the time you can meet the checklist

Sblades is just worrying about the dance timing for last 8 seconds of Sblades.

[jade oasis]

yeah but like eleem said, most the time it just sorts itself out.

mostly, the only time i end up having to shadowstrike at full is my 2nd finisher of my 2nd dance in blades

wait no

2nd finisher in general

[lilac stag]

it won’t necessarily sort itself out if you hitting a finisher the second before dance

[jade oasis]

which is just incorrect to do tho

[lilac stag]

which is why it’s an always thing to keep in mind

[jade oasis]

my brain is done thinking

i need to sleep

haha

[lilac stag]

all good.

[void ocean]

mornin kings

best blue post ever, huh

no nerfs...

[lilac stag]

The propaganda machine that is wowhead pushing assa boss dmg

[void ocean]

tbh i was close to top as assa in some heroic pugs

given fights lasted like its mythic endboss

[lilac stag]

Looks at MM Hunter topping basically boss and overall

[void ocean]

hero DR was like 10 mins i shit u not

[tribal blade]

sin isn't even top if you look at 95th percentile

MORE FAKE NEWS

[lilac stag]

Epic Fight

[tribal blade]

yeah this is kinda bs when you see MM is on top of both overall and boss dam

so basically just way better in every way

[reef walrus]

I don't get how MM has been able to get away with their hydra + sentinel interaction for so long

[lilac stag]

clearly our updated hero talent in .5 will mean I won’t need to swap to assa for paladins

[reef walrus]

feels like the spec would be reasonably balanced if they just undo the hydra nerf from a few weeks ago and stop sentinel from double proccing with hydra

[tribal blade]

well you see hunter has a massive player base

[lilac stag]

and they all hate MM

[tribal blade]

blizz very clearly plays to favorites

[tribal blade]

LOL so true

one of our hunters was complaining today about it

[reef walrus]

I'd expect it from bm sure

[tribal blade]

because they can't nonstop move like when playing BM

[reef walrus]

but all hunters I've heard now just complain how "they have to stand still all the time" because of aimed shot

[lilac stag]

mm being good is like outlaw being good, just with a much larger player base

[tribal blade]

basically they're spoonfed

[reef walrus]

as if they don't still have more mobility than almost any other caster

[tribal blade]

i dunno naming that post as sin is topping overall boss dam

is kinda hilarious

[reef walrus]

feels like sin also does well on bosses because you just sit on boss the entire time because you switching to any adds doesn't actually contribute any meaningful add damage anyway

[lilac stag]

tbh everything feels like click bait coming out of that news feed channel

[dusky yacht]

Christ am I really gonna have to respec assas now lmao

[tribal blade]

damn this comment goes hard

[dusky yacht]

💀

[tribal blade]

nah

maybe for keys

and for paladins

but other than that sub is good

[hazy breach]

Well yeah assa is the highest boss damage on statistics because it cant do anyhting besides boss damage, chim is the perfect example of that, ass cant swap to the adds so you just keep hitting the boss, which obviously looks better on boss dps

But if you look at actual top boss damage parses, aka people who also completely ignore the adds and just do boss dps, unholy and aug generally do more

[reef walrus]

I can't really remember a fight where I've felt more useless than sub on paladins

[tribal blade]

YUP for sure

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm playing sin on it

[reef walrus]

same

but even then it's still not a great experience

[tribal blade]

also the fact that you just spec into full ST talents and don't even pick up spatter on some bosses with adds

[tribal blade]

my first night was horrible because i wasn't having internet and input lag issues

[tribal blade]

a few people on my team were having input lag problems in raid too

was infuriating

[dusky yacht]

Bruh I actually read the dev notes aswell

No more changes to rogues

That's it

Really

[tribal blade]

this is just another day as rogue

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/first-firsttimer-timer-big-daddy-gif-13153854

[tribal blade]

blizz really does not like doing things for rogues

[reef walrus]

as is evident by the extra deathstalker button we're getting soon

[tribal blade]

i made that forum post to make a big stink but deep down i knew they wouldn't do shit

rogue playerbase just way too small to warrant them doing anything

[reef walrus]

took them since tww beta to realise deathstalker was just not fun

and then they do the bare minimum for it

[tribal blade]

lol DS still blows

[dusky yacht]

This is fine lol

[lilac stag]

You can tell who was here for bfa and who wasn’t.

[reef walrus]

shuriken combo my beloved

[dry flame]

Honestly, nobody plays rogue - why would they risk making a change that would potentially make people roll the least popular class. Not worth it - if duct tape is enough, it's enough.

[reef walrus]

whole spec had to pay the entire expansion for the sins on one boss

[lilac stag]

I’m talking post zul

[tribal blade]

it feels like we go through cycles of the devs giving us attention for a small while and then huge droughts of nothing

[reef walrus]

wdym, sub didn't exist in bfa post zul

[tribal blade]

beta was our little bit of attention

[lilac stag]

when literally 8 of us in here

[tribal blade]

now it's time for the long drought of nothing

[lilac stag]

You all bitching about nothing right now

[tribal blade]

before attention in like a year or so

[lilac stag]

we haven’t even hit pre-game

[reef walrus]

ngl, I would consider myself much more of a rogue main than a subtlety main, so I just play whatever spec is good for the situation

[vestal relic]

watch deathstalker getting new button nobody will play it; blizzard seeing that doesnt correlate with their data and buffing it by 20% so everyone is forced to play it and blizzard will be happy at that point

[vestal escarp]

So basically, 0.5 for rog is just the DS qol?

[reef walrus]

just feels like all 3 specs are struggling with the same shit, and I don't understand how that can happen on a triple dps class

[brisk onyx]

how a attention-grabbing title

[tribal blade]

it's gaslighting

[fossil forge]

@tribal blade unc i thought ur a real one

[tribal blade]

and for some reason they focused on that

[fossil forge]

We aint swapping from sub on paladins 💯

[tribal blade]

instead of all the specs doing crazy overall

[lilac stag]

Is it really a QOL if assa can bitch about too many buttons?

[tribal blade]

LOL

i can be at times

[tribal blade]

nah it's kinda inting playing sub on paladins

i wouldn't do that to my RL

[vestal escarp]

Weird that assa kept that many buttons

[tribal blade]

he knows sub is donkey dick on that fight and put me in

so i'm gonna do everything i can to do it right

[lilac stag]

160k vs 140k on a fight that isn’t a dps check? Idk how inting that is

[fossil forge]

Whip out the law

Unc

[lilac stag]

you’re there for atrophic to 5 heal

[fossil forge]

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a not a massive diff, but it's pretty significant

[dry flame]

You know we are vibing when Fury Warrior (25,536)
has more prases than all of Rogue combined (24,546)

[tribal blade]

also my raid team is not exactly full of rank 1 parsers

[reef walrus]

tbh if you can play assa and do like 20-30k more dps in the same gear with less effort for that boss, I don't really see why not

[lilac stag]

Makes sub look better, especially on shield breaks

[dusky yacht]

Same gear what

[tribal blade]

could be yeah

[bronze turret]

Sub can burst the shield if its ever needed. Assa can’t

[lilac stag]

DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS SPEC

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure

[weary tree]

but who needs to burst the shield

[fossil forge]

Your raid

[tribal blade]

but still

[lilac stag]

minute assa does .01% better. Prophet:

https://tenor.com/view/im-gone-out-of-here-jayholla09-im-out-bye-gif-1505267266494466414

[tribal blade]

sin feels like the play

[dry flame]

i think its the fact that lot of other classes can do it better while bringing raid utility and doing 5 other things at the same time

[weary tree]

I think nobody is saying rogue is great on palas though

[bronze turret]

Well, sub has 20 sec cds they can dedicate to something which means the rest of the raid don’t. Most classes don’t have impactful low cds

[brisk onyx]

in pala combat, 9% frost mage> 100% sub

so

[tribal blade]

i dunno this feels big

[dusky yacht]

lmao what are we even arguing about

Like really

We are inconsequential

[tribal blade]

like sub is absolute dogshit

on that boss

[lilac stag]

I’m sorry, we aren’t allowed to acknowledge positives of the spec in here.

[dry flame]

Pepperidge Farm remembers

[vale pine]

yep, its sad

[bronze turret]

Yea it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.

[dusky yacht]

We're arguing about absolute dogshit vs dogshit

What needs to change is the whole class situation

Not spec vs spec

[lilac stag]

they’ll just delete it. Gets rid of the pvp crybabies at the same time

[tribal blade]

here's one of my guild's heroic kills

it was a 99 parse on that day

[dusky yacht]

99 parse and can barely rank vs your guildies

The parses above you are blue

[bronze turret]

Everyone cheered on the removal of rupture, but that’s like a 10%+ dps loss on 3t

[dusky yacht]

Lmao

[tribal blade]

getting beat by my RL MM hunter who's not doing his rotation optimally because he's raid leading

[vale osprey]

Sat on paladins, sat on alleria, see you for beloren

[tribal blade]

sad

[lilac stag]

That is saving nothing there

Nimble is the issue

[tardy pond]

I though being a blue parse surrounded by green was sad

[tribal blade]

maybe they do something about sub cleave, it feels like a gigantic problem right now

[vale osprey]

Honestly just get to play Poe or watch shit with wife, rogue letting me vibe

[bronze turret]

Well they could have improved that situation. They can’t just buff BP a lot because it’s already fucking with 2t priorities. Rupture was a cleaving lever they could pull

[reef walrus]

feels like it's not just sub this expansion?

assa cleave feels worse than ever

outlaw cleave is also nothing to write home about

[upper narwhal]

Can we just appreciate how affliction, the spec known for being busted at multidot fights, is below Sub on paladins

Incredible

[lilac stag]

Rupture on a 3T fight with replicating was ass.

[bronze turret]

They could buff trickster cleave but it would make the ”choice” even worse

[tribal blade]

yeah they screwed themselves by making sub once again hard to tune for cleave without making aoe OP

[dusky yacht]

And like isn't it just insane that there is no way to talk to the devs about literally anything. Like do they genuinely not even know wtf is going on?

[hazy breach]

Multidotting hasn't really been a thing for a while

[lilac stag]

there is no choice. there could have been. They killed that as well.

[dry flame]

I will say one thing - all this shit Rogue has been through, especially compared to other classes, wouldn't have been as tolerable or fun without the tight community we have here.

Despite having people who bark and lash out and crash out, overall, we have a pretty supportive group that helps each other make the best of a shit situation.

[upper narwhal]

It was supposed to be more of a things after the latest rework tho, what with no more rapture

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

[dusky yacht]

Voice of reason found in the sea of madness lmao

[tribal blade]

i've been trying not to doom too much, couldn't resist today haha

that sin post pushed me over the edge

all that rogue gaslighting

[dusky yacht]

But yeah I'm ngl man this is making me doom so hard

[upper narwhal]

Like I refuse to believe afflock should be the worst spec in the game on a cleave fight, something is seriously wrong

[dusky yacht]

It doesn't help anyone though

Least of all myself like I'm putting so much work into this

[ornate lake]

Homosexual

[bronze turret]

Yea idk, they could buff storm a lot, sectech? But all of these have ST implications. Inc another rework

[tribal blade]

yeah there's no ability to target specifically anymore

[brisk onyx]

they just messed things up. outlaw used to be one of the benchmarks for council combat, now?

[tribal blade]

all of sub's toolkit is now interwoven

they kinda undid the progress they made from TWW in that regard haha

[vale pine]

It is, in keys if the tank pulls slowly/small and in raid which is mostly cleave

[bronze turret]

Yea well at least its simple

But if you pull a lot then sub is nuts imo

Constant dmg

[vale pine]

cleave damage was fixed with nimble

[tribal blade]

yeah sub feels great in mass aoe

[vale pine]

why i was surprised they changed it again

[bronze turret]

And if you then buff bp a lot.. you’re going to fuck yourself and that’s the only cleave ability

Ridiculous design

[vale pine]

subtlety is not the best aoe currently

[tribal blade]

i had the thought they could just reduce the target count of nimble

[red flame]

Real af

[tribal blade]

that feels like a bandaid fix

[vale pine]

it falls off, while others don't

[tribal blade]

but could work

[brisk onyx]

I left some rather strong comments; frankly, idk why that author used such a sensational headline

[lilac stag]

Paid off by Realz

[tribal blade]

it feels like the design decision should be if sub is going to be the worst cleave spec in the game, it should have the best aoe or st

[dusky yacht]

That is really just such an insult isn't it

[bronze turret]

Maybe i just play with shit players. But i am consistenly doing good aoe dps. The downtime between ”burst” is minimal and bp always does dmg. I think it’s more a case of people not gearing for aoe if they don’t see decent numbers

[tribal blade]

ironically all 3 rogue specs suck at cleave now

[dry flame]

Do you think that is still a problem if cleave is locked behind a Hero Talent (making the other one less viable)?

[vale pine]

the problem is, thats not feasable

[tribal blade]

it's not you're right

[vale pine]

tuning one spec to be "the best" was something blizz refused to do with rogue over the last 10+ years

i doubt they change their mind on that

[bronze turret]

Change sub with rogue and they would agree

[vale pine]

every time we ended up "the best" we saw bigger chsanges or nerfs quickly

[bronze turret]

They don’t see it as sub vs the world

[dusky yacht]

So is it that decision then that is just keeping us down constantly

We are competing against ourselves?

[tribal blade]

haha truee

[bronze turret]

Sub was pretty good in previous patches, like we dont even have to go back far.

[vale pine]

mostly, rogue competes with rogue

[tribal blade]

sub was for sure good because of burst niche

[vale pine]

if rogue is good tuned overall

it competes with other specs too

but if its not, we are in our rogue bubble

[weary tree]

we compete with ourselves because we can't compete with others

[bronze turret]

When i last played seriously, sub was a top st spec that didn’t have to do anything with talents to also do good aoe dmg. Pretty insane for m+ and in raiding we had burst and really good st. Cleave have always been a weak point

[tribal blade]

sub still has the st/aoe talent thing going on, we can swap like 1-3 talents between them

[brisk onyx]

Since nimble now only works on certain types of damage, I think they should remove the target cap (just like caustic)

[weary tree]

But classes don't have to be the worst if they have been the best before

[dusky yacht]

Thing is though like, to me this talk of the past is such a cope personally, I started playing again in midnight and as a returning player this is so meaningless, what does it matter what the past was like? The only thing that matters is right now, not in 3 patches, not in a year, not 5 years ago..

[bronze turret]

But for like 5-6 tiers in a row you played sub because it was the most flexible spec out of the 3 and had short cd burst

[dry flame]

"I'm the biggest fish in the pond"
"No, I am!"

Rest of the classes: "Ah, the children are at it again, okay gang, time for bed."

[bronze turret]

Because blizzard don’t see it that way

[tribal blade]

the main thing is if you let 1 spec dominate every single tier it's not very fair

look at aug when it was released

creates an extremely oppressive meta

[bronze turret]

They want to lift different rogue specs for different tiers. Specifically stated by realz at some point, years ago

[dusky yacht]

What does tier mean in this context? Season?

[tribal blade]

that persists a long time

[tribal blade]

season yeah

[weary tree]

yeah but no realz, wonder how long that lasts

[dry flame]

One good thing I'll say, even "general" wow content creators are making fun of how bad rogue is, which can only be net positive, if broader groups are aware

[bronze turret]

And sub was “unfairly” the best for many tiers in a row. So to have bad tiers is not like, insane

[dusky yacht]

But isn't that what's happening

[tribal blade]

we're having a down slump after being really good last tier

[vale pine]

sub was also most of the time only good for a short time

you could similarly say assassiantion was unfair

or go further and dive into m+ where things ended up even worse

[dry flame]

i don't care if sub is good, but I feel like rogue should always have at least one spec in the top 5, especially since we're the most rigid class with 0 flexibility (and melee)

[dusky yacht]

I guess I just don't have the time-scale perspective to be able to see things this way or discuss this meaningfully

[bronze turret]

And I could never give a single shit about what other classes did. Rogue was always nice to have cus you can’t die, if you die first you probably suck. And you brought raidwide defensive, albeit, kinda weak. But if an arcane mage is doing more dmg than me, I don’t give a shit as long as I get to play sub and be in the raid

[fair phoenix]

The only thing i dont like só much on sub is pad damage

More funnel would be good

[tribal blade]

sub used to have insanely good funnel

[bronze turret]

Funnel hasn’t been a thing for like 8 years and will never be a thing again

[tribal blade]

i don't think they'll ever let us go back there

they gave it to sin

[dry flame]

Yep, Legion rework (until zul)

[tribal blade]

that's theirs now lol

[fossil forge]

Blud missed the best sub iteration by a few months

[hearty steeple]

during shadowlands, subt funneling was very good

[bronze turret]

Very good is a cope

[fair phoenix]

Ok with thar but they need to put more things on us to compesate

Like dmg lol

[tribal blade]

nah wasn't good during SL

[dusky yacht]

That's just my life story tbh LMAO

[dry flame]

The best sub iteration, imo, was HFC Sub, fight me

[hearty steeple]

and even till now imo, i funnel big mobs at dungeons, making the run faster

[bronze turret]

You lost so much dmg from doing funnel that it was barely worth it at all

[hearty steeple]

u wanna time the key

do ur part

[tribal blade]

and then you do WAY less overall

[hearty steeple]

thats my mind set

[tribal blade]

like crazy less overall

[bronze turret]

And if you compare the st dmg from just spamming bp vs evis, you will cry

Cus it’s so minimal compared to just “padding”

[tribal blade]

yeah it's not as significant as people think

[bronze turret]

The thing you can do is, strike once, make sure you AA a prio target and then just go BP hell

[tribal blade]

i think it looks more significant because you end up doing barely any aoe and then the smallies live longer haha

[hearty steeple]

with decent players, they will appreciate funneling , or u will end with group fighting the big mob with last 20% and all holding their CDs for the next pack

thats not optimal

or good utilization of specs

[tribal blade]

just respec sin

[bronze turret]

You do you

[tribal blade]

do really good funnel/prio

while doing max aoe

easy

i looked at the top ranked sub rogues on rio and they're all respeccing sin now

[bronze turret]

Doing funnel in this day and age is ridiculous. Especially with bp talents

But nobody can stop you

You might as well spec into goremaw for some more lash dmg

While ur at it

[hearty steeple]

problem is that the sense of exclusivity for the game is kinda lost after SL, meaning in SL when its tyrannical week i would get 1 st class like UHDK, Boomie, sub rogue... and for example u get warrio or outlaw coz basically those classes make the run faster coz they have steady dps all the time so when other CD based classes are on cooldown u will help in maintining the speed of the run, now its all the same

pull armies and aoe

[dry flame]

you don't have to inspect me, just ask
-# (im joking, im just a silly solo pug lord)

[lilac stag]

Hit shiv for another danse stack

[dusky yacht]

And yet an example to us all

[dry flame]

of what not to do

[dusky yacht]

But looking great while doing it and uplifting our void blackhole hearts after a massive gaslight post on wowhead lmao

[bronze turret]

The only time I have funneled consistently is during like, speedkills of anduin in sepulcher and you were in the lich king phase. Funnel was good cus he took like 500% more dmg or some shit

And that’s like 5 years ago?

Shit, getting old

[tribal blade]

the fun thing with old nimble was you could choose to spam evis to do more prio and then do less aoe

but the tradeoff wasn't as big

as just doing 0 aoe

[bronze turret]

Ye

It’s the worst part about sub funnel. You literally do 0 aoe

[dusky yacht]

I love how every time there's a post on wowhead or a bluepost even remotely mentioning Rogue this discord explodes btw lmao

We are so eager for any kind of attention

[tribal blade]

i think it can be worth on very very specific situations

[dusky yacht]

Notice us senpais

[tribal blade]

but most situations it's not worth

[bronze turret]

The post is a ragebait as well

[dusky yacht]

I mean shit lets be real you're not wrong

They can't be serious

[tribal blade]

it does feel like they actually are trying to bully rogue

[hearty steeple]

bullying the bully?

[tribal blade]

now gonna have so many people saying "ROGUE IS FINE YOU GUYS ARE DOING TOP ST DAM IN RAID"

[bronze turret]

What do you fucking mean assa is top? If you filter differently they are slightly ahead. But why is that title worthy? It’s only to bait sad rogues

[hearty steeple]

if only fights are 30sec i would be SSSSS++++ TIER LIST st dps

[dry flame]

The worse it gets, the more likely it brings changes guys

. o ( )

[tribal blade]

lol i have bad news for you

[bronze turret]

Sub rework in the .1 patch :)))

[hearty steeple]

they will adjust something stupid and saying its not applicable in pvp, or adjust a pvp something and like everything is cool in pve

[torpid echo]

but at least in overall rogues are perfectly balanced on each other... on the bottom...

[dusky yacht]

Also in keys no? First BL big pull in keys I am an absolute god 450-500k dps max pumping

[hearty steeple]

yeaaaaaa

[dusky yacht]

And then the rest of the run it just keeps going down and I'm basically trying my best to prevent it from going down more LMAO

[hearty steeple]

iam happy with new rogue

like u can beat metas sometimes, 90% of metas players are rerollers, not a class veterans

[bronze turret]

Sub is waaay past due date for a spec specific talent overhaul. So much garbage in that tree

[dry flame]

the specs are quite well balanced to each other, gotta give them credit

[bronze turret]

And that’s what I hope they’re cooking

[torpid echo]

they are indeed, it's just sad that all are bellow middle of the pack :p

[lilac stag]

My hope on that ship sailed when I saw the alpha talents tree in MN

[bronze turret]

Well I’ve heard devs talk about that before. They have a target % dps and rogue is usually very good at following recommendations and targets. While other devs just say fuck it for some classes

[hearty steeple]

but no matter what, lets be honest its a flex to play rogue

[lilac stag]

Rogue is just LARPing a dps class in wow

not really a flex

[hearty steeple]

its its its

[bronze turret]

Tbf they look at the whole kit as well

Rogue is insanely tanky

Still

[dry flame]

if they can make Survival into a Schizo-identity-crisis melee spec,
I'm sure it's possible to give us a / role or a ranged Knifejuggler spec

[bronze turret]

And being alive is very good in every type of content

[torpid echo]

Rogue could be bottom and I'd still play it, don't care, i'm used to dooming 😂

[bronze turret]

Same

[dusky yacht]

Guys we're gonna urgently need a chinese meme paragraph with "we just sitting on cap ungeared opening lockboxes" mixed into it

[hearty steeple]

we are the least played class in mythic++

[lilac stag]

subtlety do low damage (“精妙”专精的伤害较低) get 700 haste from stats (通过属性面板获取 700 点急速) perecent does not matter (百分比数值并不重要) robot needs less haste than dad with 3 kids (机器人所需的急速比那位带着三个孩子的“老爸”要少)
enjoy bench (“老爸”要少)

[bronze turret]

Rogue is the least played class overall. Usually. Monk is a tight contender

[hearty steeple]

coz its the hardest class

[lilac stag]

between dev and aug im assuming theyre past rogue now

[dusky yacht]

And then people will be like "it's so easy to play omg two buttons", yeah, that's why it's least played. Cause it's so damn ez guys trust

[hearty steeple]

look at hunters palading mages

armies

literally the queue is full of hunters

[bronze turret]

Paladin, hunter and Druid’s are by far the most I think

Demon hunters kinda big too

[dry flame]

We are the least played class:
Single race lizzards have as many parses on Aug alone as our entire class

[hearty steeple]

druids comes and go and mostly as healers, no expect a dps druid for some reason

[hearty steeple]

bro we are a 22 years old class

[bronze turret]

Ye but people love the Druid archetype

[lilac stag]

rogue visuals or lack there of, still impacts overall playrate.

[hearty steeple]

not 5 years

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/myDXHnYYPxT4od4NEN

^ Played class balance

[bronze turret]

Very expected numbers

[lilac stag]

Our class fantasy is shit in wow

[fair phoenix]

Assa is really good

[hearty steeple]

and we need a new color, fucking yellow !!!!! red, black, purple should be ours

[fair phoenix]

But tank need to do good routes and funnel on Bosses do min max

[lilac stag]

Really good is a stretch

[hearty steeple]

give DK cyan

[dry flame]

Lately, i've come to realize Rogue/Thief has very few good Archetype realizations across many games :/

[hearty steeple]

and give us red

[fair phoenix]

Só i go sub until 26s

16

[bronze turret]

I do think there’s a correlation between how popular a class is and the attention it gets. Private company and all. They have to provide a reason to do anything, any project. And spending a ton of time on a class that’s barely played isn’t very hot

[fair phoenix]

Not a aug or lock

[dusky yacht]

This just makes things even more slanted though

[hazy breach]

You dont even need to think of it as like "corporate only wants you to spend time on the things that make money", but even from an average player point of veiw. Devs only have so much time

[bronze turret]

Ye

It’s not a wild idea

And unfortunately makes sense

[lilac stag]

Problem is they could allocate more resources to devs, they chose not to. MONEY

[bronze turret]

Why pay more when it works

You think they give a shit about our feelings

[lilac stag]

capitalism at its best

[dusky yacht]

It's so weird though like aren't they making way more money now with the mounts and the wow token thing

[lilac stag]

Nope. Nor the feelings of their employees.

[winter python]

Hello guys,

Do you think it's a possible Stance/Stealth bar delay/bug that caused my SS/BS macro to use BS here during Shadow Dance?

My macro is just:

All the other Shadowstrike casts were me pressing the same Keybind (1). I don't have Backstab or SS keybound separately.

[bronze turret]

It’s a company in hypercapitalist US, spending money on useless shit isn’t really what they do. They probably had to write this Silvermoon story to even touch and update the city. It was abandoned for like 18 years

[dusky yacht]

Seems like the only explanation, I don't use a macro like that and have no issues

Well enough dooming I'm gonna get back to farming xenas, 15 m+ runs this reset and I only got back from a trip on saturday, with raid night on sunday.

Still no ring.

[winter python]

Right, maybe it's time to learn the separate keybindings muscle memory after 11 years of playing Sub.

Never really looked at this issue on logs before, but I'm wondering if it's been happening a lot.
Feel like my logs this tier have been atrocious.

I'm somehow worse at 'Simplified' Sub than pre-midnight

[lilac stag]

pre midnight involved zero braincells

[winter python]

Before pruning I mean

[lilac stag]

Trinket + Apex + not having 38% haste = lulz

have some things to pay attention to

[dusky yacht]

Sheesh man I'm sorry they managed to break your macro lmao

[finite hedge]

Is raid helper 3% buff today?

[winter python]

Probably been happening forever and just never noticed

[valid tartan]

why do you need a macro or separate keybindings

your stealth action bar is different than your normal action bar, on the stealth bar you just put shadowstrike, on the normal bar you put backstab, if you're in stealth or shadow dance its always shadowstrike

[thin sinew]

Delay

[winter python]

I don't use Action Bar paging.

[valid tartan]

y

[winter python]

Just never liked it. Liked my spells to be the exact same positions in and out of stealth.

• use ElvUI and I think Stance paging on action bars is disabled by default so just always been used to that
• heard issues about stance delay issues in previous expansions

[lilac stag]

Using Elv to avoid issue is certainly a choice

Elv causes more harm than good typically

set your bars the same on the two stances

problem is not a problem

[winter python]

Not using it to deliberately avoid any issues. Just think it was the default when I first started using it 10 years ago and never changed it back.

[lilac stag]

the only stance delay shit currently is using strike with a dance macro. Everything else is fine

[bronze turret]

Isn’t it ironic that blizzard wanted to make it possible to do everything ingame. But you have to learn how to setup warcraftlogs to even see your buff uptime

So you have no idea how often a trinket is up or anything

Unless you log yourself

Or count the seconds while playing and divide it on the total

[swift tinsel]

Yeah base meters give you next to zero actual information it’s lovely

And details can only extrapolate so much

[lusty narwhal]

death log is pretty cool too

[dusky yacht]

Guys I figured it out, so as a mythic raider with 276 ilvl etc right I join level 6 keys with alts and new players and I'm like the best DPS class in the game honestly they can't compete with me, amazing, I think we're so back

[lusty narwhal]

time to nerf rogue

[dusky yacht]

Sorry guys I ruined it for us

[upper narwhal]

A mage in my guild took damage from a warlock’s burning rush according to Blizzard’s death log

[swift tinsel]

[solar silo]

!logs

[glacial eagle]

my honest experience yesterday
when you do a +10 with people who can barely push 50 to 60k and do 110k, you are like a god unto them
unfortunately, uh, that's about it.

[glacial eagle]

backblast

[dusky yacht]

💯

I genuinely think at one point they were asking each other on vc "what is this guy doing here" they were all targetting me at the start of the dungeon lmao

I even dropped a feast

I'm getting that ring boys.

https://giphy.com/gifs/filmeditor-hot-nervous-l4FATJpd4LWgeruTK

[glacial eagle]

fortunately for me, I got all the hero rings
now that PoS neck...

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/rezdogsfxonhulu-fx-networks-rez-dogs-XBJ2p7gq9A3O3Zuhvu

Blessed us be for the copegods are watching over us

[void ocean]

seasons like these make me proud for maining rogue for 20 years

[lilac stag]

where's all my crown neck is a dps loss people? two recrafts later

[void ocean]

imagine being fotm reroller changing classes every minor patch

when my lil rogue looks me with eyes full of tears after being beaten by one-button-rota demo lock, i tell him its ok buddy, u did ur best

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/good-boy-pat-on-head-stitch-gif-14742401

[obsidian crag]

how is it possible that sin is so much higher than sub on boss dmg?

[dry flame]

https://giphy.com/gifs/rockstargames-gta-trilogy-gtatrilogy-6ILjOfJ1oL7NAc9SQ7

[lilac stag]

they literally just sit on the boss

Assa is still trash. Band of rogue brothers.

[hazy breach]

They can't hit adds

Or well, not in a way that costs them any boss damage

[obsidian crag]

u mean, if they go ST build they cant use like FOK because that is a super dps loos

[lilac stag]

they’re literally incapable of doing any meaningful add dmg

[hazy breach]

They do use fok

But it doesn't do any damage

Like you're not killing adds at all as assa

[lilac stag]

now look at MM boss dmg and overall

[hazy breach]

You sit on boss and cleave a small amount

Not much else you can do, target swapping still a bit cursed

[lilac stag]

assa getting the Paladin push for extra boss dmg

[obsidian crag]

but when i go here, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/46?class=Rogue , i dont see assa so much more strong like that statistic chart suggests

[void ocean]

why is so hard to kill adds as assa? if i swap with full cp it doesnt feel that bad

and i even did it on hc, i imagine on myth it would bring even more value

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[wintry heart]

Dawg when I played assa awhile ago I shared a screenshot of responses in here showing my RL why I couldn’t swap to adds on some bosses and got myself excused from doing so 😂

[hazy breach]

Well you want to have your bleeds up as well, which either takes a while or requires the mob to be ontop of the boss

[void ocean]

excused like benched 😄

[hazy breach]

Like on chim when you go downstairs

[wintry heart]

No like I didn’t have to swap to adds

[hazy breach]

What do you do as assa?

[void ocean]

i try to have full cp from boss and just drop them on the biggest add and spread from there

[hazy breach]

Spend 5 out of the 12 seconds the add is alive dotting it up before you start doing any damage?

[tepid trellis]

vs dance+sectech-storm-bp

a bit of a diff

[hazy breach]

Because the damage you do while doing that is so unimpactful people just sit on the boss permanently and let other people do the add

Which means their boss damage is way higher

[tepid trellis]

if other classes started ignoring adds and only hit the boss Assa would not be that high on chart

[hazy breach]

If you look at boss damage parses you see unholy dks doing that too

But theyre doing more than assa

[obsidian crag]

word

[crystal bone]

wowhead article heading bait

inc nerf

[tepid trellis]

nerf assa buff sub

yes

yes

[crystal bone]

[dusky yacht]

LMAO

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-animal-anger-xb4qPpNPjgrTO

I'm sure we're in there somewhere guys

[crystal bone]

looks like 1 rogue did a 20

woxtoxic prob

[wintry heart]

https://tenor.com/view/troopers-responsible-helpful-doing-my-part-gif-11496062726020391529

I did a 15,

[eternal abyss]

Zerocool I think

[crystal bone]

hey at least rogue specs are lookin balanced

... at the bottom

[tepid trellis]

equally shit

quite pog

[lilac stag]

you almost had devourer arc.

unluck

[dusky yacht]

The people demanded equality and Rogues stepped up.

[modern sentinel]

we are in this shit together

[hollow spear]

The rule with raid leaders is this:

If you play assa, they will ask you to switch to add.
If you play sub, they will ask you to stop padding.
If you play Outlaw, they will bench you.

[crystal bone]

if all specs unite, surely we can create change for the betterment of rogue

[lilac stag]

fuck outlaw

[dusky yacht]

[wintry heart]

https://tenor.com/view/plastic-man-real-real-powder-powder-that-makes-you-say-real-animated-comic-plastic-man-gif-7493651428267836743

[eternal abyss]

My RL says “Play what makes you feel good” and we’re progging Paladins😁

[modern sentinel]

fuck outlaw?

[dusky yacht]

I hereby propose the creation of the Dogue Organisation, together we will force blizzard to change their ways

[crystal bone]

[copper dove]

[fallow glade]

[bleak night]

[fading saffron]

[vale pine]

[modern sentinel]

oh I was gonna continue streak

[tepid trellis]

they just didn't tune Devourer high enough for me to play it

[dusky yacht]

For a short time, there was nothing that was going to stop us.

[void ocean]

Rogue do low damage (盗贼伤害垃圾). same parse as arms war (评分红色，和武器战一样). Bring shame to guild (公会之耻). M+ instant decline (大秘秒拒). I stand in city like NPC (刪除此類)

[compact spindle]

Dance with the shadows (影と共に舞う). Blade without mercy (無慈悲の刃). Silent but useless (静かだが無力). Master of nothing (何も極めず). Cloak and still die (クロークでも死). Darkness within, damage without (内なる闇、外なる低DPS).

you gotta keep it fresh come on bro

[spice kelp]

Time to initiate ret pally protocol and close the discord lol

[compact spindle]

Shadow master mindset (影の達人). Move with precision (正確な動き). Step into danger (危険に突入). Vanish too late (消失遅い). Spirit released (魂解放).

[upbeat cradle]

Isn't it just Zac doing outlaw things in keys

[soft summit]

Really thought this expansion would be different. I always thought that the reason why my rogue didn’t crank was because of my skill, or lack thereof.

But now that the class is so simplified I am literally hitting all my buttons almost perfectly. I have pretty much the best gear and after 1 or 2 minutes into the fight when I feel like im absolutely dominating I glance over at the meter and I don’t see my name anywhere near the top.

The only time I come close is when the boss spawns a bunch of adds and I have well timed shadow blades available.

We also don’t bring anything to the group. To be honest I’m surprised I get invited to any of the pve content in this game. If I was a raid lead I certainly wouldn’t take me over another devourer, death knight or literally any other class

[tepid trellis]

well they made the spec "simpler" but also undertuned it

so what can u do

[soft summit]

Reroll frost mage I guess

[eternal abyss]

Nah, stay loyal.

[brisk onyx]

you bring something to your group- sit on the bench

[soft summit]

I’ve been loyal 21 years. I’ll stay rogue but man these numbers are disappointing

[hollow spear]

I'll start applying to casual heroic guilds

Time to top the meters

[dry flame]

the thing is, i don't want us to bring just numbers - I wanna be a real class people want in the raid

[hollow spear]

Would you still roster me if I was a worm?

[dry flame]

but reverse, we are a worm

[hollow spear]

Went from a hypothetical to reality real quick

[rugged rover]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hollow spear]

I'm in on dragons, guess they need a worm to catch some fish

[fleet wharf]

I feel assa might be the play on dragons. my guild melts the orbs too quick

[crystal bone]

pro tip: if you acquire the job of raid leader's POV, you're always in

rogue pov may cause dizziness however

[hollow spear]

We'd wipe twice as much if they did raid lead through my pov

They'd get an aneurysm everytime they saw me hold dance/sectec for an add spawn

[crystal bone]

mine doesn't know what my buttons do so im safe for now

[torpid heath]

Do we always cast Sectech with shadowdance, or can i just yolo it if ShadowDance has 10s cd left for example

[hazy breach]

That shouldnt really happen if you are at the appropriate haste levels

But yes if you dance has more than 10 seconds left on its cooldown you can cast a natty sectech to get them back in sync

[torn tide]

yoyo how long is the maintenance for?

[dusky yacht]

Undoubtedly

[torn tide]

lmfao it seems like assassination is top for boss dmg in raids

[wintry heart]

Im going to get puzzle box in this damn vault and I’m already mourning

[shrewd lantern]

Well we did alot of damage last season.

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-fuzz-shame-gif-26273082

[velvet bear]

Only if they tunnel and stay on boss the whole time. And even then they are not really topping the charts

[orchid laurel]

rogue is so op xD

[dusky yacht]

This is completely incorrect btw

The only thing assas is doing is staying on the boss, they can't do anything else

And 95th percentile they are 3rd, not first

Their own article shows it, second pic

[mint swift]

This is perfect

[orchid laurel]

overall they are 1st though

[dusky yacht]

lol

[keen path]

I don’t raid but I haven’t had any issues with damage in M+
Our burst isn’t as high as other specs but we have it so frequently it works out well.

[naive creek]

Trying to improve and in comparing my logs I'm finding I spam backstab a lot more than most in dance downtime. I'm worried about energy capping but maybe that's not as important as something else I'm missing? Every global I'm using an ability, is that wrong?

[west bluff]

Lmao who's the legend that did this

[quaint lodge]

Link a log

[topaz crow]

does using pot before or after shadow blades have any difference?

[torn tide]

oh well that sucks

so in other words assassin sucks in m+ then

[torn tide]

damn lol

[hazy breach]

no

[torn tide]

unless its prio targetting