subtlety

[torn tide]

yea it was a busy week

[keen dome]

Yeee

[short radish]

no you don't understand he's now behind a week

[torn tide]

only had 1 +10 slot

[hollow spear]

It's always iGestalt's vault!

[keen dome]

So it was the only choice for Myth

[torn tide]

dw not ur fault

[short radish]

may as well delete the char and uninstall the game

[hollow spear]

🤝

[keen dome]

So like shitty trinket that achieves nothing and won't be used or potentially useful Hero item

[short radish]

yeah tbh i'd take a socket there

taking hero items that's not a guidon or gaze

is kinda also pointless

[keen dome]

You won't upgrade the trinket 'cos it's inferior to a champ / hero one. You can't benefit from free crests 'cos you need two anyway.

[keen dome]

I think it depends a lot on your gear at the time

Like I could've taken a Myth tier helm OR hero Alleria neck and I think I made the right call on the neck

[short radish]

mhm i guess

though even neck you can craft

[keen dome]

Ye but free crests, lotsa haste

[short radish]

oh wait

[keen dome]

It's very much a decision you've gotta make

[short radish]

you had myth track helm

nah you gotta take the helm there even if it's first boss drop

gg blud delete your char

try again later

[keen dome]

See to me I'd always take the neck 'cos it's such a contested slot AND I didn't know the proc was literal garbage

I think I'd still take the neck knowing the proc was literal garbage 'cos it + nexus is so much haste and frees up other slots fo rme.

And it saves me uh.. 80? crests

[short radish]

yeah i guess 80 crests kinda nice

[keen dome]

Since it comes 6/6 in Vault

[short radish]

end of the day who cares

[keen dome]

Ye

[short radish]

just play game and get a guidon/puzzlebox

[keen dome]

Yep

Well not puzzle box

[short radish]

i know it's kinda stockholm sydnrome

[crisp locust]

hey team just looking at some sims and i've always heard not to use dungeon slice does anyone know if rogue dungeon slice is good or bad?

[short radish]

but im used to it now

[short radish]

only rogue dungeon slice works afaik

you can trust rogue dungeon slice (sorta)

dungeon slice is fine, but sims atm for sub (only sub) aren't as fine

[hollow spear]

you cannot trust Fimbulvtr though

[short radish]

???????????????

[torn tide]

man heroic dragons will always be aids

[lilac stag]

just play game and get a guidon/puzzlebox

[short radish]

[crisp locust]

legend cheers for the info

[hollow spear]

I think the crafting mafia is behind the haste threshold

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

I don't want to know how much gold I've spent on recrafting

[short radish]

i've been holding off my belt recraft since it's only a 0.3% gain

and i dont want to spend 10k

[hollow spear]

it was all worth it (until I get more crests and it's all ruined again)

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif

[short radish]

i begged my guild for an aa m0 leatherstack so i could get the trinket on my paladin

[lilac stag]

pink is the new leather

[short radish]

because at same ilvl it's 2% better than pvp trinket (my only other option)

[hollow spear]

and they've decided to let you down?

[lilac stag]

It’s almost like a 2 min trinket is really good when it’s used every 2 minutes

[hollow spear]

I hope you guys have >= EPIC LOGS

Will send them this

[keen dome]

Nice

I have neither curve nor epic logs

But I do bring a sunny disposition and the ability to not tilt on a single wipe

[hollow spear]

toxic tilters only, sry mate

[karmic harbor]

we're making out the hood with this one

[pseudo fiber]

guys i see lotta rogs playing around 550 haste instead of ~700. is it worth dropping for more mast or crit? on trickster

[hollow spear]

double digit parses are elitist

[hollow spear]

they might use a haste flask

[pseudo fiber]

i see

so keep that hast level on 18% y?

[keen dome]

Something I wanna do someday, and I am sad I didn't do it during Undermine is pug lead a heroic raid.. wrong. Every tactic? slightly wrong, slightly off, slightly different from the norm. The way we kill bosses? Reversed or awkward. Groups setup weirdly.

Just to see how long people stick around and what the breaking point is

[red flame]

That’s roughly the situation I’m in

Low haste so I gotta use haste flask

In the 500’s or smt before flask & oils

[keen dome]

Undermine would've been the best for it 'cos you could've done something nonsensical like: Arena -> Car -> Scrap boss -> Music boss -> Conveyer boss

[hollow spear]

I am at exactly 700 without a haste flask

[pseudo fiber]

hehe im on 672 with oils

[red flame]

Holy W

[hollow spear]

unfortunately that means I cannot spend crests next week

or I am at 706

which would be heresy

[limber cedar]

Hello. With my m+ gearset i only get ~650 haste, should i lower it a bit and move to a haste flask or should i go like this?

[sharp ravine]

Check logs and if you are missing GCD

650 is fine as long as you buffer every spell

[limber cedar]

Ok, thanks

[open coyote]

is puzzle box better in m+? i feel like sometimes i manage to be running between pulls or bosses and such where the extra wait time for puzzle doesn't feel as bad

and in aoe situations i don't feel like the extra haste is nessecarilly that great (might be me whos wrong on that one though)

[gritty crow]

i see alot of players who are currently loggin 100 and 98, having 250 haste

is that even possible?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[hollow spear]

Of course

But it's pretty int for single target, so I wouldn't recommend that if you aren't playing in an organized M+ group

[gritty crow]

To be honest, right now i dont know what should be my next step..
i have crit 792, haste 522 and mastery 896

[hollow spear]

Anyone got the stat meme ready?

[hollow spear]

I meant the tom and jerry one, but I'll accept this one too

[hollow spear]

get to 670 to 700 haste and then fill up with mastery and crit

[keen dome]

Haste to a comfy level i.e., 684 - 700. Then just more mastery and crit. blammo.

high5 colo

[hollow spear]

gotta work on your wpm, iGestalt

[gritty crow]

thats for m+, but in raids, do we have a limit?

[hollow spear]

limit?

[gritty crow]

meaning, leave it at 300 then fill mastery ish

[sharp ravine]

100 or 500 haste is the same

[hollow spear]

in raid it's even more what iGestalt and I said

[sharp ravine]

Haste between threshold is useless

Literally useless

[gritty crow]

Any character name i can copy and check the gear for?

[sharp ravine]

Senday - Archimonde

But check wowhead for bis as I don't have bis neck atm

[gritty crow]

my gear atm

[sharp ravine]

If you want, dm me your simc and I will try to find haste

[gritty crow]

Yes

[keen dome]

That's an outfit.

[gritty crow]

?

[open coyote]

that neck isn't terrible tho, seems like you just need a bit more haste to hit the 690ish and you're gucci?

[gritty crow]

what if i change my pazzel to light company?

and use haste flask

i should be gucci no?

[sharp ravine]

Keep puzzle

But haste flask can do the fix

[wicked fox]

isn't guidon straight up better than puzzle?

[sharp ravine]

Depend on content

M+ puzzle box

Raid mostly Guidon

[keen dome]

In raid, yes. In M+, no. Unless you are me, then yes.

[compact token]

is there a string for the proper haste for SIMC?

[wicked fox]

well I think I'm you then

[keen dome]

I find Puzzle Box a little too much cognitive load with pug tanks and it causes me to play worse so I just don't use it, fuck it.

As Sub, anyway. As Assa I find it fine

[sharp ravine]

No

[compact token]

ok ty

[hazy breach]

It's not literally useless, it's still more sht stacks for your no blades dances, but yes it's significantly less impactful

[sharp ravine]

useless are not even close to other secondary including vers

[hazy breach]

Generally yes

[vagrant fulcrum]

caveat would be aoe with PP?

[wicked fox]

wouldn't puzzle box + guidon be good in M+? so we can pump a lot on big packs

[hazy breach]

Not really

If you go puzzlebox you'll get too deep into diminishing returns with secondary stat potion (which is better on AOE)+mastery enchants

[vagrant fulcrum]

remember that ur missing half a trinket

if you run 2x on use during cds

[hazy breach]

Like if you want to fully optimize big AOE you obviously want a lot of mastery, but when you're into the -30% Dr it makes sense to get some other stats too

[vagrant fulcrum]

I wonder if later in the expac there's gonna be finality cooks

[hazy breach]

Instead of what

[wicked fox]

wait we're using secondary stat potion in aoe? damn I didn't know that

[hazy breach]

Yes but you need it to give mastery

Otherwise you should use the AGI one

[vagrant fulcrum]

honestly, danse?

[hollow spear]

my recommendation is to use guidon and then use the secondary stat potion

[hazy breach]

For big AOE that's already the case

[hollow spear]

completely inted my aoe damage with that

[vagrant fulcrum]

its just gonna be trading st for aoe, with enough crit the trade off wont be as costly

[hazy breach]

But you lose such a massive amount of prio and st that its not worth it

[vagrant fulcrum]

since we're already hitting dr on mast

i guess trinkets will affect whats good

[hollow spear]

lashe is kinda big in st

[open coyote]

I've always just used the agi potion, since with box i hit 20% mastery DR

[hazy breach]

Yes with box you don't want to use the mastery one

Which is what started the discussion in the first place

[short radish]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/449080055893590017/1280746470815043646/456.gif

[keen dome]

[short radish]

average dps queue status

[keen dome]

MythChim, though

[hollow spear]

are these your credit card transactions?

[keen dome]

Right after complaining, i got invited.

[wild vine]

wdym

aug and uhdk get instant invites

[short radish]

[keen dome]

[hollow spear]

I am sitting at 1.200 mastery with flask and the bot hates the secondary potion

Maybe because it sends potion after guidon and therefore forces haste over mastery?

[dusky yacht]

Recklessness

[warm marlin]

Poor Eleem having to solve yet another offgcd scuffed sim interaction

but yes that is why reck pot sucks

[hollow spear]

holy

[vale pine]

[hollow spear]

18 second first dance

😮

[warm marlin]

when i manual fixed it in apl it went from -3.7% loss on 3 targets to like a 2% gain

[keen dome]

After I complained, I got invited to maybe a good group. So as always: complaining works.

[warm marlin]

turns out having 3000 haste is bad

who knew

[hollow spear]

nah

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

perma dance

[dusky yacht]

Perma dance for no damage, amazing

[hollow spear]

doesnt matter

[dusky yacht]

[hollow spear]

the longer my purple bar stays on the screen, the better I feel

[fathom adder]

ner had that situation: if i did look into my vault this week but do not take anything until reset, do i see the then "old" vault/have to take something out of it before i can see the new one or does the new one pop up first?

[hollow spear]

you have to take the old one first

[hazy breach]

Yes

[keen dome]

It'll stack up, oldest to newest.

[hazy breach]

The problem is you can't change pot in the apl

It's a setting you put into sim

So I can't like "use secondary pot if <1000 mastery else AGI"

[warm marlin]

I just added "&cooldown.potion.remains" to the guidon line, not sure if that would work for your more general purposes

[hazy breach]

I moved the pot to the items section instead

[fathom adder]

thank you

[hollow spear]

So we're using that potion on Paladins?

[warm marlin]

it's good on pull for sure

[hollow spear]

(if we're unlucky and don't get benched)

[warm marlin]

might be better to swap to lights potential for the second usage

[hazy breach]

Assuming you get mastery from it* yeah it might be very slightly better

Obviously you should have slightly more mastery than crit/haste by default, but not everybody has

[hollow spear]

two potion binds? what has this world come to?

[warm marlin]

true but i manipulated my stats heavily for this fight

was like 500/670/1150 or something

[keen dome]

Just carry 1 of each per pull and have them in a macro, duh

[warm marlin]

if you're going to use reck it's important to consider what you get from it

[hazy breach]

If you want more cursed tech use the adamantite whetstones on your mainhand

But still oil on offhand

[warm marlin]

:garf

[hazy breach]

Phone stupid

Phone - stupid
Train - delayed
Stomach - empty
Mood - not great

[hollow spear]

🤨

What does that do?

[hazy breach]

Wasn't scaled down properly

Gives weapon damage

[hollow spear]

Oh man

[tribal blade]

damn i'm sorry

[hollow spear]

I hope you get some food soon

[short radish]

bought enough to last the abuse

[hollow spear]

I'd like to avoid even more cursed things to be spawned from a moody tc

[vale pine]

+1 take csre of yourself

[keen dome]

🫂

[hollow spear]

Fimbul: banned
Log: invalidated

[short radish]

[hazy breach]

Fwiw it wasn't me who found these. It's been a thing since prepatch I just assumed it would be fixed insta

But it didnt

[hollow spear]

dunno

maybe it'll just get fixed in the 12.0.5

if at all

[tribal blade]

how much more dps does it give?

[hazy breach]

Like 0.5% or something is what I heard

[tribal blade]

hmmm ok so significant enough

damn

[clear aspen]

guys on 2 targets with dance up do you use BP > Evis?

with potent powder talented

not sure if matters

[tribal blade]

yes

[clear aspen]

aight thx

[cobalt bane]

Guys i have question, during SB do we just put as much Evis as we can or we keep the ancients art rule and try to proc it as much as possible with shadowstrike

[summer peak]

!qol

[cobalt bane]

Which means every Ancient arts goes Evis>Evis or Evis>Sstrike to prove arts > Evis >SStrike

[summer peak]

!addons

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• **The first dance tracker

[hollow spear]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[ashen warren]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[limpid sage]

is that on both weps or just mh?

because I would've guessed bubbling is better on offhand

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[limpid sage]

that indeed answers my question

[left ledge]

Just slam finishers

If you pool like 3 sht stacks before dance the apex talent plays itself

[fleet acorn]

On Dragons mythic - do people After first opener hold each dance for orbs ? Or how do people play the Boss seems I cant parse good on that Boss

[azure mauve]

if you wanna parse on that boss you need to hold sd for the adds

unless they changed how parsing works

[fleet acorn]

Can I still Check Dance at x time from top Logs and copy over into mrt to Set reminders?

[azure mauve]

ye prob

[fleet acorn]

Or is that lorgs io not possible anymore

Or what Site do I Look at

[azure mauve]

lorgs can do that

[fleet acorn]

I always used like weakaura for Timers where do I use that ? Gotta use northernsky or what ?

[sharp ravine]

yes

MRT work too

[fleet acorn]

Ok will Take a Look on how to Set it up

[grizzled cosmos]

using raid bots.. swapping around enchants.. does it not take into account the enchants or im assuming the ones i have are correct?

[fleet acorn]

U Need to Check replace Option at the top

[keen dome]

I really like how impactful rogue can be on Chim intermission

It feels really fun to be just going "nah mate you don't get to do SHIT" to the dangerous adds

[sullen spruce]

what did you guys craft after wep and belt ?

[spice kelp]

Is it worth dropping the Eagle eye ring enchants to get the haste ones to get 58 more haste to get into the 650-700 haste range?

[sharp ravine]

yes

[vale pine]

in keys too

i had pulls i kicked one, kidney a 2nd and blind a 3rd

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's great

But for Mythic Chim it's so satisfying

Even if I am intensely bored with the fight now and want to just kill it

Had a few 13% wipes. I can do it all blindfolded now, it's so rote. The only fun bit is intermission maximization on the adds for me.

[summer mason]

I'm just getting back into playing and wanted to try Subtlety, with 2 targets is it better to spam Eviscerate or Black Powder? At how many targets is it better to use Black Powder?

[keen dome]

Also I wonder how many of these "CE LEAD" people ahave just killed Chimarius and nothing else...

[tepid trellis]

ngl this burd has hands

[hazy breach]

You have to check the "replace" box here, otherwise it wont swap whatever you have

[sharp ravine]

3+ / 2+ if potent powder spec

[hazy breach]

Without that box ticked its just doing differing enchants on things that are not yet enchanted

[hazy breach]

Generally no, the eagle enchant is very strong

[fleet acorn]

Farmed Full assa gear rings and neck in 3h feels good to swap from sub .. man doing push keys as assa is just better

[hazy breach]

Ideally you swap a ring/boots/neck/cloak or whatever around to get more haste. So try to not disenchant or throw away random pieces you get from m+

[grizzled cosmos]

it says zuljin mastery on both rings. and acuity on both weapons

[placid crown]

Hi guys, nowadays I feel like I encounter an issue, that I think that I already got for some periods, but now it's back:

the animation of the strike is sent 2 times

instead of one

and it's very disturbing and I feel like it makes me lose some 0.X sec of GCDs

[keen dome]

Isn't that just Weaponmaster?

[swift tinsel]

p sure ye

[placid crown]

well no

weaponmaster changed

it's not a second attack anymore

it's a probability to send a clone

[swift tinsel]

ah ye thats right mb

is early

[placid crown]

and i can clearly see that it's my character who is attacking twice, and also the sound of the attack can be heard twicce

[keen dome]

Do you have two entries for the attack in your logs?

[placid crown]

good question

If i remember i checked my logs recently for an other reason and i didnt see 2 entries

[velvet bear]

During Blades: Do I use the second dance immediately or shall I wait until SecTec comes back up? Normally SecTec is ready with the new Dance, but sometimes does not fit in the Blades Window?!

[nocturne tendon]

if it's strictly about shadowstrike, it's very janky on ramps/stairs and sometimes doesn't go off

[hazy breach]

You probably have a little bit less haste now because of some gear upgrades so you get the "shadowstrike at the end of dance fails" bug where it starts the shadow dance animation despite dance having ended (or is ending within a few milliseconds)

[hazy breach]

If you have the guidon trinket line it up with the end of shadow blades, if you dont then just cast it once the first one ends

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[placid crown]

well maybe.. I'm at 654 haste at the moment, it seems enough to me to put the gcds needed during a dance, even with a coup

but it can happen for all the strikes during a dance

not only one

[pale fog]

Do we go down on 1st or 2nd soak on Chimaerus Mythic these days?

[dry flame]

Ideally second

But whatever kills the boss

[wintry heart]

I looted hero track puzzle box last night and I hate it

[pale fog]

Thanks man

[keen dome]

just pretend you didn't loot it

[dry flame]

I got myth track in my very first vault

https://tenor.com/view/akakichi-no-eleven-bro-bad-news-i've-got-bad-news-for-you-hand-on-shoulder-gif-4737126791591033318

[soft gorge]

In AOE are we just sending SD whenever and alternating between Black powder and SS?

[wintry heart]

I know it’s going to sim ahead of my normal mode guidon in ST

I’m refusing to sim it

[dry flame]

Define whatever - you should still be sending it with ST

[dry flame]

I got myth Guidon so now I'm using box only for M+ or Assa

[hazy breach]

Theres no difference between aoe and ST in terms of when to send dances

[soft gorge]

Thank you

[dusky yacht]

I got myth occlusion first myth vault week and still haven't gotten omission to drop in a party where they could trade it to me, I've done at least 30 xenas 10~s

My guild is memeing me about it at this point

One of them posted this

[dry flame]

I'm using them on hero track, think it took me 7-10 runs

And since you only need 1

You should be fine getting it

[dusky yacht]

I guess it's just super unlucky rng

At least I got myth set helm this week, can't really complain too much

[dry flame]

Have you farmed it though? Or just whenever you happen to run Nexus? 😄

[dusky yacht]

At least 30 xenas runs, I'm basically spamming it every chance I get

[dry flame]

Oof, than cursed yeah

[dusky yacht]

One run

TWO people wanted to trade it to me, but they couldn't because of the ilvl thing

Imagine

[dry flame]

Tbf, the MT one sims higher for me than the ring set

[sullen hare]

There's always the AA ring 🙂

[dry flame]

I need that for Assa yeah

[dusky yacht]

Yeah but I need a bit more haste and since I already got the myth occlusion one

I mean it just seems to make more sense for my current stats

[dry flame]

Makes sense yeah

[dusky yacht]

I should sim though prolly

[dry flame]

Droptimiser for M+ max hero track

(I've heard not to 100% trust droptimiser but still nice to know)

[dusky yacht]

Like maybe if I get haste some other way or something it would make sense

I think I already got both the other rings that are good for us

[alpine wraith]

remember you can always solve haste with engi boots or wrist

[solid vale]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusky yacht]

Yeah no my current setup is best apparently and on droptimiser omission drop would give me 0.9% increase so

I just need to force the drop

[left ledge]

I swapped to sin

And ABANDONED the haste breakpoint

[dry flame]

Gems if haven't, easy +48

[left ledge]

FUCK EM

Woah how is this guy getting +48

Surely one of your slots is a main stat gem

[dry flame]

I have crafted neck, so good source of haste too

[rapid dagger]

Quick and silly question: With Dance and Secret Technique, do I always need to line up, or can I go from Dance into Secret Technique?

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I got that one too

[hazy breach]

Look at this guy getting actual loot from his vault, smh my head

[dusky yacht]

I mean my haste is fine with oils 17%, I just need omission for the last push up

[left ledge]

You dance and sectec at the same time you macro them basically

[rapid dagger]

Much love

[left ledge]

[tepid trellis]

avg intermission dmg on bird over the 25 pulls

i am NOT bottom

we take those Ws

[vale pine]

middle of the pack hype

[hazy breach]

Imagine tww sub

[warm marlin]

what kinda orange man is that

[vale pine]

ye

[sharp ravine]

My tank druid is WAY over me on eggs c:

[tepid trellis]

may or may not be a tank

[warm marlin]

lmfao

it's so over

tww sub is there with the top ele

[keen dome]

We'd be so fucking good if we had TWW sub..

[sullen hare]

I already paused my subscription for the first time since mop

How many rogue mains quitting is it gonna take

I don't even care if realz reads this discord anymore help isn't coming

[hazy breach]

Tbf that chart should be slightly better in 2 weeks with the new trickster talent

[supple verge]

I went to ret and it makes me sad

[swift tinsel]

I doubt seeing the rogue player # go down would make them do anything lol

or if they'd actually notice/care

[night sparrow]

!storm

Hey guys, right now I'm using Shadowstrike on 2 targets, but is Potent Powder strong enough to use Black Powder on 2 targets ?

Prog paladins tonight

[sharp ravine]

Yes

You use storm only outside of dance on paladins

[night sparrow]

Yaya ty

still storm + bp when they're 3

[sharp ravine]

Outside of dance

[night sparrow]

isnt it

oh okay

[sharp ravine]

In dance you shadowstrike

[night sparrow]

shadowstrike worth on 3 targets ? I didn't know that

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[night sparrow]

at 4 is storm I guess ?

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[night sparrow]

alright perfect

thx dude

[fiery fog]

does anyone have some tips for mythic alleria

[sharp ravine]

Get benched

[fiery fog]

im not

[sharp ravine]

Best advice

No advice really to give, if you want to parses, keep in mind that you want to sectec when big add are gonna die in P1

[warm marlin]

obelisk baits are like 1000x times the most important thing for melee in the entire fight

[sharp ravine]

Else than that, fight suck

[warm marlin]

it will define your uptime and prevent you from killing each other

[fiery fog]

what was the obelisk again
the thing that shoots out in 3 lines or the orb that spawn?
i always forget what it was xd

[warm marlin]

thing that shoots 3 lines

[fossil forge]

any mythic paladins rogue povs

in the chat

[weary tree]

https://tenor.com/view/castiel-supernatural-misha-collins-sitting-relaxing-gif-17871660

[warm marlin]

you want to stand where you want to be shooting it basically

[fiery fog]

it should be fine if im not aiming the obelisk at the ranges right?
otherwise just hit boss

[warm marlin]

yes but in p2 you need to snipe the add that's like 250m away for some reason

[fiery fog]

oh

[sharp ravine]

You have a lot of time to aim but It can still be really hard

[warm marlin]

you still bait away from ranged but ideally you have a spot you can walk through, keep hitting boss, and snipe the guy

[fiery fog]

and if im not in range to hit boss i just gotta accept my fate

[sharp ravine]

Having a crosshair and offset it above your character helped me a lot

[warm marlin]

it's not the end of the world if you miss one but the add continually pulses ramping damage

the next guy has to hit your add to keep it from ramping out of control

you can technically hit multiple with one obelisk but is extremely difficult for melee

[fiery fog]

usually i just play for the kill in progress and if i have a mechanic like this id rather play the mechanic and lose 5k dps

[warm marlin]

if you cast blades twice in p1 and dance on cd it doesn't really line up

so you're safe

[fiery fog]

yeah i was asking my rl if thats ok for me to do since all lorrgs kills (besides two) do it like that

[warm marlin]

you don't miss a cast in p3 anyway

[fiery fog]

i was thinking of holding the last blades for the pot

depends on boss hp though

[warm marlin]

you can hold the 6:30 blades for the add spawns to make it easier for your raid and still fit that blades in with pot before hard enrage

[fiery fog]

like thie third guy?

[warm marlin]

ye

hard enrage is 8:56

im playing his timings pretty much exact

[fiery fog]

guess ill try that too then

thanks

[warm marlin]

np gamer i didn't really think it was that horrible of a melee fight

if you get orb drop mechanic a bunch its a bit cringe but that's rare

[fiery fog]

do you just walk out until its gone?

[swift tinsel]

hell yeah purple pangolin mount secured

[warm marlin]

idk i was trying to time it but it tends to overlap with cds a lot

sprint time running out with a gcd, sprint jump out, step back right after drop

[terse dirge]

with 4 set + haste trinket are we delaying 2nd dance in SB till 8 seconds left on blades or 2 seconds of cooldown left on sec tec? those are not the same for me a few seconds apart.

[fiery fog]

sb 8 seconds

sectec wont be supercharged but doesnt matter

[terse dirge]

trying to wait till 2 seconds left on sec tec is sketchy

and sometimes causes me to miss.

[fiery fog]

you want dance to overlap as much with blades as possible

sectec will usually be something like 3 seconds before dance ends iirc

[hollow spear]

This guidon thing will eventually drive me crazy with its inconsistency

[terse dirge]

maybe with the first dance in m+ but in raid after the 1st usage of dance in CDs sec tec is like 10 seconds of cooldown left for me.

[fiery fog]

i was talking about raid

for me if i delay the second dance to where baldes has 8 seconds left

[warm marlin]

i have been quite sick the last week but i will make a video sooner rather than later

[fiery fog]

i can still fit a sectec inside that window

[terse dirge]

oh i see what your saying

[warm marlin]

maybe this weekend

[hazy breach]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[fiery fog]

yeah just tried it on a dummy

i have 2-3 seconds left of blades and dance when i send the second sectec

depends on apex proc i guess

[hearty mural]

wassup yall...on big pulls, do you sit and wait for everyone to get in secret tech range? or can you open up with one or 2 black powders then start burst

[hollow spear]

about the timer thing or what exactly?

hope you're better!

[fleet acorn]

Some friend told me when in aoe Situation he always shadowstrike After sectech then start Shuriken Storm + bp Spam ? Why is that a thing or is he wrong ?

[fiery fog]

if i have supercharges left from last pull ill just wait because no dance means youre not dealling any damage

[sullen hare]

if you have perma tricks shuriken + bp is always in good taste. helps the tank form the pull especially if you have johnny lightforged in your party spamming divine storm .00005ms into the pull

[warm marlin]

yes, being vague intentionally here 👿

[hearty mural]

ok i see what youre saying thx

[hearty mural]

true you right lol

[sullen hare]

so if you do it or don't do it, whatever you pick is valid

just don't overdo it you don't want to be at 15 energy when the majority of the pull is formed

remember that you're better then other dps because you can just let fly when the tank is almost ready

worrying about threat is beneath you 🙂

unless blizzard takes away our hour tricks. then I will be very upset

[fleet acorn]

Any high rogue can help out I don’t understand the difference ?

A friend told me when in aoe Situation he always shadowstrike After sectech then start Shuriken Storm + bp Spam ? Why is that a thing or is he wrong ? At the Moment I only Shuriken Storm + bp After sectech

[hazy breach]

Casting one shadowstrike in dance is a very minor loss in damage overall as it procs danse macabre

[left ledge]

I’m not high yet

But this edible will kick in soon

[hazy breach]

But the priority damage is way higher than storm

[short aurora]

anyone using draught of rampant abandon instead of lights potential?

[hazy breach]

So you sacrifice a very small amount of aoe for a decently sized increase to your priority damage

[hazy breach]

Its generally very annoying and very toxic to play around

[short aurora]

what happens?

like just an aoe puddle?

[hazy breach]

That silences you

[short aurora]

oof

[fleet acorn]

Should I do that on Dragon Boss or just pad orbs

[hazy breach]

Its up to you

[fleet acorn]

I don’t Even know I should Target orbs or bp off Boss sometimes I just stand Anywhere and cant Coupé the orb Caus my targeted is in china

And when I finally on the orb they all dead

[gilded ferry]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[warm marlin]

i will vaguepost and you cannot stop me

[lucid jackal]

We all know who will stop you

[hazy breach]

He became the very thing he swore to destroy

[hollow spear]

A three part tragedy

[rustic mortar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[craggy flare]

Are we aiming for 700 haste without consumables or after oils?

[fading saffron]

I believe it is after oils

Since ideally we want to use mastery for our flask vs haste

[craggy flare]

Thanks

[hollow spear]

doesn't matter which flask you use as long as you arrive at ~ 680-700

[fiery fog]

not even 5 pulls into alleria

and i have cancer

wtf is this shit

[fresh grove]

So if we’re using guidon, we don’t have to hit 700 haste with gear, just as long as haste is 700+ while using guidon?

[hazy breach]

No

Guidon changes nothing about the breakpoint

[craggy flare]

You need 700 for each dance

[fleet acorn]

who killed mythic Dragons as sub and is targeting orbs ? Or do you bp off Boss

[coral hemlock]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you can pad on orbs for parses, but thats not technically the best play

[vagrant fossil]

You just run Potent Powder and spam black powder all day

[fleet acorn]

Yea but how does it work do you have Full cp and wait for orbs and dance sectech my orb into bp spam or do I send sectech on Boss ? And bp Spam After

[vagrant fossil]

Spamming BP all day
You see the 8 and think "My god what a shit log"

Boss damage

[leaden prairie]

guys i am at 830 haste and haste doesnt really sim worse than mastery, have I ascended

my dance last the whole boss now

[vagrant fossil]

I sent my logs to you in DMs
Imo, don't hold sectec for orbs unless you for some reason have issues killing them

[vale pine]

Depends what you play for, if you play for logs, you probably make sure to send cooldowns with orbs. Which should align somewhat fine without big delays

[vale pine]

sucessfully turning subtlety into outlaw

[vagrant fossil]

Otherwise you just play standard rotation, use potent powder and just spam BP so you hit both bosses

[leaden prairie]

[vagrant fossil]

Shuriken Storm unless in dance with Shadowstrike

[fiery musk]

Hello. Is it possible to get so good lvling gear to just speed up lvling, making quest etc?

[opal shadow]

so 785 haste is killing me then?

[vagrant fossil]

2nd intermission you are going to have CDs coming up again. If team has issues killing it, just send them and kill the add
And then just in general beware of the big circles. Commit to moving or stand still if you get it. If you don't move instantly, then don't move

[lilac stag]

step to adds, blast. Back to boss

[torn tide]

god damn

[sullen spruce]

which neck should i craft?

[vagrant fossil]

The one that isn't with embellishment

I think that is the masterwork sin'dorei amulet

[sullen spruce]

oh u mean the one where i have to put emblishement in ?

[undone ridge]

im gona sound dumb but can some one explain to me how we use misdirect? or is ist not even necessairy?

[undone ridge]

by misdirect i mean tricks of the trade

[vagrant fossil]

I don't use it in raid that often. Only times like Nexus king in MFO where we split and I want aggro for my tank

There is an addon you can use that auto uses on tank

When I say auto, it means you click your tricks macro and it uses on tank1

[undone ridge]

can u give me a better scenario where u could draw aggro for tank?

like with this u just try to help him pull more right?

[hazy breach]

I mean it has 60 minute duration

Just use it on the tank at the start of a key/raid and youre good

[vagrant fossil]

So on nexus king in MFO, when we went up on platforms you have the adds coming up. If I have tricks on my tank it means I can start setting up without generating threat for me

In keys, you just use Tricks from the start of the key

[undone ridge]

i see

[vagrant fossil]

But in raid I don't see much use for it unless tanks get split up really

[undone ridge]

makes sense

also how do we use shiv

[vagrant fossil]

Only to dispell a rage

[undone ridge]

i dont get it when a mob is about to enrage

is there an indicator?

like icon or smth under the cast bar

[vagrant fossil]

If you have your nameplate addon show dispellable buffs on the target, then it will show you
If you use Junides Plater it does work

[undone ridge]

aight

[sullen spruce]

which one should i use ?

[undone ridge]

ty legend

[vagrant fossil]

Appreciated but I still have some work to become that

[vagrant fossil]

At this point I will have to say sim. Right now, no one is using embellish on jewelry, but instead are playing arcanoweave lining on a leather piece and Darkmoon hunt on weapon

And you can only have 2 embellishments equipped at any time

[modest summit]

Pull trash during break to kill guildies

Best use imo

[tiny lark]

700 haste is for raid and for dungeon we go full crit mastery_

?

[dry flame]

684-700 haste is for your mental for the whole game time

[vagrant fossil]

You can definitely run a lower haste build for dungeons, but it drops your boss damage

[vale pine]

for m+ too

[sharp peak]

yall are running 700 haste before raid buffs?!

what is that, like 20% haste?

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vagrant fossil]

I got like 680 before raid buffs. But ye, it think it is 19% for me

[lucid jackal]

The value is more important than the %

Cuz the percents round

Ur number, in combat, just needs to be 700

Oils, flasks, whatever gets u there is fine

U just need to be at 700

[sharp peak]

did that change? I swore 18% was the northern star on what we wanted to have 2 sec techs inside SB

which i still hit with 18%

[hollow spear]

It's about dance duration, not sectec

[mental mesa]

So 700 hate dans all in mastery ?

[oak grotto]

Do you open with Shadowstrike in AoE?

And then go into Shuriken Storm as a builder

[eternal abyss]

Anyone willing to go over a log for single target?

[sharp peak]

the simmed data from fuu show's haste 17.42%

[hollow spear]

Have you read what guy said?

The percentage does not matter

[keen dome]

Raw number only, % is not useful.

[sharp peak]

ok, so 616 is the raw number for haste on fuu's sim

[tropic field]

why arent my /use Light's Potential macro using the highest rank and instead not using any?

[hollow spear]

You want to aim for 680-700, period

[sharp peak]

lol

[eternal abyss]

/use item:245898
/use item:245897
/use item:241308
/use item:241309

use this, it will start from Cauldron down to lowest quality.

[tropic field]

can i put it in SB macro?

[eternal abyss]

yes

[tropic field]

okey thanks!

[swift tinsel]

Ty's point isn't wrong though about the sim being lower haste in fuu's sheet

[random flame]

I member smoke bomb

[hollow spear]

Fuu sandbagging again

[swift tinsel]

classic fuu

[keen dome]

big dog boss hard to kill

[hollow spear]

I guess the robot can make 617 haste happen idk

Doesn't help us mere mortals though

[hazy breach]

I mean thats before oils

[next pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

its actually 584 from just gear+gems in the sim

616 with oil

[dense fossil]

Is it worth using finisher on 6 or 7 cp?

[swift tinsel]

6+

[next pulsar]

guys, is trinket from alleria worth using if i have kroluk and guidon?

all 276

[hollow spear]

Sim it

[keen dome]

do they know something we don't

[tidal solstice]

how to relax?

[keen dome]

Insinuation of first boss, would mean there is other bosses. Rather than it being the singular boss it is. What do they know, where is the secret Dreamrift second boss??

[plush roost]

The second boss is your raid running u over on opposite sides

[keen dome]

that's true

I had a dude wipe the raid with the piss circle earlier today. Just barrelled over on his horse to slam into the entire of the downstairs group on the first circles.

best group was the "CE only 275+" group I somehow got invited into (which was the red flag I guess). We get to the boss and the lead clearly has no idea about anything on the fight, and is trying to pretend he does.

It was frustrating, but also really funny

I also got into an entirely spanish group and it took them about four pulls before they realized I did not understand a word of spanish

Thankfully the tactic is mostly standardised for ChimariusM pugs now

👀

A pug group.. wanting a rogue??

[swift tinsel]

sus...

[keen dome]

they did not invite me, sadly

[swift tinsel]

even susser

[limber folio]

5 people decided to die on double break into 3rd platform, wouldve been kill

[keen dome]

rip

[dense fossil]

!log

[dense fossil]

Could anyone check and tell what my friend "Esdain" could improve on

[fiery fog]

whoever designed mythic alleria

needs to be checked on

fr

[limber folio]

???

its a really good fight tho

[fiery fog]

[fringe cloak]

quick question, is it worth it to craft a second 285 dagger to replace 263?

[tulip light]

no

[fiery musk]

Should leveling 1-90 should be that bad? I mean, sometimes I even loss 70% of HP with 1 monster

[fiery fog]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[swift tinsel]

rogue struggles to level esp early on

[fiery fog]

nvm that
oh is our worst slot

[dense fossil]

[fiery musk]

Well, it's awful tbh. I can't kill him. It takes ages

[sullen hare]

that's not a regular enemy you can safely ignore him I think :p

[fiery musk]

It's quest monster

[sullen hare]

oh shit that's just the regular guy over there?

[swift tinsel]

funnily enough the most fun I've had in the game in a while is doing all delves 11's as preservation

going for full midnight delve achieve completion

[hollow spear]

Holy, you're down bad my man

The rogue slump hitting hard

[swift tinsel]

you can make valeera legitimately immortal if you echo all your hots onto her

that too lmao

[keen dome]

Haunting Essences have such a funny walk cycle

Big "oh I'm gonna get'cha" energy

[hollow spear]

Well, they do get'cha

[keen dome]

you don't get to see it often

[swift tinsel]

finished this one up, 60 valeera and lvl 10 journey done, just need to do "finish all 11's as dps/healer/tank"

[keen dome]

but I recommend just letting one run over after an interrupt

they have the best animation

[hollow spear]

Snickering somewhere in a corner and fearing you because ranged were afk again

[swift tinsel]

been playing dev/aug to pass the time and figured pres would be easy to do the heal part

(it is very easy)

[keen dome]

I somehow got invited to a CE only group again.

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-human-not-a-robot-not-a-dog-definitely-human-gif-5505767

[hollow spear]

The rogues have a raid buff propaganda works

[keen dome]

And this one looks hopeful

Two other rogues too

[hollow spear]

[keen dome]

I gotta make sure I play well, they could be in this very discord

[hollow spear]

Does the RL have a rogue fetish?

Or is yellow just their favourite colour

How many hours have you spent on chim by now?

Feels like more than I've spent in mythic this season

[keen dome]

Uh.. Probably something like 6 - 8?

Almost all of today has been in a Chim pug group or trying to get into one

[dense fossil]

Any Rogues willing to help?

[violet palm]

What buff are we taking in AA?

[swift tinsel]

I usually go mastery

[keen dome]

I was duped again. That was definently not a CE gorup lmao

[vale pine]

f

[keen dome]

The tank just ran to the wrong side and wiped us on the second pull.. Just another case of zero clue how to do the fight but inviting people who do, then wiping us

Those other two rogues were so good though

I'll just do the same thing tomorrow.

[vale pine]

sounds painful

[keen dome]

But it will be worth it. Just gotta luck myself into the right group

[maiden bronze]

This TW trinket from Ragnaros is still performing higher than any Dungeon Trink (HC track). In fact only trink that sims better is the Gaze and the Plume. (HC Track)
My other trink is a Hero Puzzlebox.
It does give a lot of mastery.. the effect stacks..
Is this right? or is it just in Sims?

[hazy breach]

It is a solid trinket indeed

It procs every 1:45, so it doesnt quite line up with shadow blades

[spring basin]

Reminds me of what happened to me and my guild the other day.

We're a casual friend based raiding guild that only shoots for AOTC. Had a hunter use us without our knowledge to do raids with us a couple of weeks so he could get nab gear and parses to apply to a specific CE raiding guild he wanted to join.
We just downed heroic dragons yesterday, and thus are officially ahead this idiot's new "CE guild"

[keen dome]

Hahaha

Very nice

[random comet]

A “CE guild” is still working on heroic dragons?

https://tenor.com/view/é-complicado-mano-gif-9589218753428981877

[fluid lintel]

That's not a CE guild

that's an Aotc guild

[keen dome]

I know a few CE guilds that have worse prog than me, the random guy in group finder

[limber folio]

[limber folio]

i mean you can still get CE the last week of the raid, so still a "CE guild"

[keen dome]

Race to world last guilds are the most formidable guilds, imo

I have so much respect for them

[humble furnace]

Is dungeon slice a reliable tool for m+?

[random comet]

For rogue it’s normally pretty safe to use

[dense fossil]

Anyone would be willing to help?

[dry flame]

It's hard to say from wipe logs, the only thing I can say is I am not sure he's optimising for his Apex Talent

his 2nd blades are ~15 sec late, but that might be because of mechanics

[dense fossil]

Did it happen in every pull?

[dry flame]

he is popping SB a bit too early after guidon (2nd blades specifically)

[dense fossil]

And pardon me, I'm literally clueless, I'm just trying to help him a bit, because he seems to be struggling

[dry flame]

if its not in lust, he should be chaining dances during Shadow Blades

especially with guidon

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[dry flame]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[dry flame]

these 2 commands u can show to him @dense fossil

[dry flame]

He's not doing this for sure, beyond the holding SB for 15-20 sec

[dense fossil]

Oh, alrighty, will forward them to him. Also, is it possible to somehow see whether he utilises CP correctly?

[dry flame]

he should spend on 6+ combo points

[dense fossil]

Ummm so 6-7, right?

[dry flame]

-# (you said the thing)

[dense fossil]

😭 sorry

[dry flame]

but yes, correct

[dense fossil]

But is it possible to see whether he misses any of them?

Like if he accidentally uses it on 4 or 5

[dry flame]

I don't think that matters as much as the two things i pointed out earlier

1. Wait ~1 sec between trinket and shadow blades/CDs
2. follow the steps in the Apex optimisation

most of our dmg is in dance, and in dance it's really hard to mess up combo point stuff

[tribal vortex]

how much is apex optimisation

shouldn't be that much

[dense fossil]

Alright, that makes sense, however, is this the reason (or one of the reasons) why his eviscerate/ST is much less than the other two rogues? @dry flame

[lucid jackal]

Like 1% for trickster ish

[tribal vortex]

yeah but they have the same dmg output

[dense fossil]

Wait wdym?

[tribal vortex]

Ah i saw the last wipe

they had the same dps

but in all wipes he is quite behind

[dense fossil]

Yeah

[dry flame]

hard to say, but over the course of all your pulls, he has about ~100 less casts of Evis than them

[dense fossil]

Hmm, that's quite a bit

[tribal vortex]

i mean there is a button to compare

[dense fossil]

Umm, is that King?

[tribal vortex]

yeah one pull but https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/bt4QAYVTX3haq6g8/self?type=damage-done&source=213%2C215&boss=3179&difficulty=5&wipes=1 this is all pulls on king

its mostly evis I'd say which is weird?

also 3 less casts of sb from the other rogue butr 2.5k dps more

something is not right in the cd's window

[shrewd reef]

is it true, that Assa is better in pure boss dmg?

[dense fossil]

Could it be the thing that Punz mentioned before?

[tribal vortex]

yeah could be. If he is not waiting for guidon he is losing a big portion of dmg

[dry flame]

he's for sure wasting a lot of his SB by not casting dance until ST is back (even outside lust)

[tribal vortex]

The apex optimisation shouldn't be that big but it is something

[dry flame]

and guidoning almost same time as SB

[tribal vortex]

yeah guidon will be the most important thing

[dense fossil]

I think he has macroed everything together

[dry flame]

yeah he shouldn't with guidon

[tribal vortex]

yeah he should have guidon alone and all 3 others together

[mint sleet]

depends you can output some nice dps on amp phase

[dense fossil]

I see, that might be one of the causes

[dry flame]

Strike > Guidon > pause 1 sec > CD send > line 2nd Dance with last ~8s of SB

[dense fossil]

But for instance, on Vorasius kill, that what caught me the most apart

[tribal vortex]

evis st and sb is like 10k 5k 5k

this is your 20k diff

[dry flame]

was just about the link that too yeah

[tribal vortex]

I haven't checked thoroughly but the cd windows seem to be missing something

also for sub all that matters are those windows

[dense fossil]

So he casts way too little eviscerates within the SB window?

[mint sleet]

probably didn't min max apex

[dry flame]

Your vorasius kill, if you compare him to your top rogue

[tribal vortex]

apex is the last thing I think

maybe casting ST without SD?

he has way less st dmg

[dry flame]

(also crazy you run 3 rogues on mythic, but fair game tbh)

[dense fossil]

😭 we had some issues

[dry flame]

But yeah, as you can see, 26 less evis casts, waaaaay less SecTech dmg

[mint sleet]

that was my casts on king (on a kill try)

[dire ravine]

Does anyone have the spreadsheet of the projected buff %'s to sub damage?

[dire ravine]

from other class buffs^

[dense fossil]

But why the ST dmg?

CP stacks?

[tribal vortex]

maybe casting it without SD?

[hollow spear]

Way more backstab casts, too

[dry flame]

maybe because of the late/Guidon, he can't fit STs in SB as he should

[tribal vortex]

maybe using backstab in dance?

[mint sleet]

lol

[hollow spear]

He uses his second dancd basically when blades have run out

Consistently

To me it's a "read the guides and faq more thoroughly and come back again" angle

[dry flame]

This was an earlier Vorasius kill i had with a really messy pug group - like disasterous

[dense fossil]

So do I just tell him to read guides and look at the Shadow blade windows..?

[tribal vortex]

also I saw now, he has the same SD casts

[dry flame]

and also how to use Guidon

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/pixar-disney-hoppers-lizard-wave-gif-15184704642520455338

[hollow spear]

Yeah, make him read wowhead and/or icyveins, #subtlety-faq and the !guidon command

[dry flame]

he has crazy ammount of backstab casts thats true

like 20+ more and 20+ less Evis

[tribal vortex]

yeah and he has like same amount of SD so something is wrong for sure

[dry flame]

he's not casting in dance tho so idk

Also as a side note, he is using the warbound health pots instead of alchemy ones @dense fossil

[hollow spear]

Casts dance, stops using spells, leaves, refuses to elaborate

[dry flame]

he is also delaying dances by 2-5 sec every time

[dense fossil]

bro where do I even start the conversation with him tomorrow.

[dry flame]

which ends up costing him

[violet palm]

Because I thought we go crit since it’s % increase instead of flat on mastery and then I realized I was drinking reckless pot for the first pull and it was giving me crit instead of mast. Don’t be me

[dry flame]

Breaking down your logs, it seems there a lot of points of improvement. You are missing a foundation for playing your class optimally for Mythic

Compliment Sandwich: Positive > Negative > Positive

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/bt4QAYVTX3haq6g8/self?type=casts&fight=24%2C24&source=213%2C215&view=timeline

he can compare timelines for casts with the other rogue

[hollow spear]

Punz pulling out the coaching

[dry flame]

not saying it should be 1-to-1

I just press buttons most of the time man and it just works out usually

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/idiot-sandwich-gordon-ramsay-what-are-you-hells-kitchen-trendizisst-gif-22413997

[tepid trellis]

quick lil late night passion run with half guildies

0 loot tho

[hollow spear]

Why are you posting achievements of others?

It's clearly not Stealthi

Are you playing devourer? Is it fun?

[dry flame]

@dense fossil His rotation can't be 1-to-1 as the others as procs and stuff happen, but the basics

• Guidon 1 sec before CDs, not macro-ed with
• Second SD in Shadow Blades to cover the last ~8 sec (and fit another SechTech in Blades)
• Not sitting on Shadow Dance or Shadow Blades for 15-20 sec
• Apex Talent Optimisation (Lesser priority, compared to the other stuff)
• Tell him to buy proper health pots

[tepid trellis]

its ok

you have to be greedy af when playing it tho

and embrace the pad

[hollow spear]

Music in my ears

[dense fossil]

Thank you so much! I hope that the Frostler gods protect you for the remainder of your life.

[dry flame]

im a guildless solo pug lord, i am just trying to be there for others

[dense fossil]

Oh also, should I tell him to use more eviscerates and less backstabs?

[dry flame]

that should come naturally if he fixes the issues we pointed

part of it is that he sits on CDs for long times, which means he backstabs and fills more

[dense fossil]

So wait, should be send the Shadow Dance as soon as it refreshes?

[dry flame]

He should pair it with ST, if ST is off CD, should cast asap

but DURING Shadow Blades, he should line the second dance ot cover the last ~8sec of Shadow Blades

[dry flame]

But biggest immediete issue is to use Guidon properly

[bright briar]

anyone got the mage retail discord?

[dense fossil]

Wait, and this will and might sound completely silly, but you can only cast 1 ST within one shadow dance rotation, right? @dry flame

[dry flame]

yes, 20 sec CD on SD, Sech Tech with haste is still ~15 sec CD

and duration is not long enough

but you also, ideally, wanna be ST when you have supercharged cps (when you activate SD, you get 2x)

the exception is during Shadow Blades

[dense fossil]

Gotcha

I see, and regarding Throne, is that guy a decent rogue?

Can I use his log to compare to my friends?

[teal coral]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[swift tinsel]

beat the game \o/

ready for labyrinths

[dry flame]

Your friend needs practice of fundamentals, not staring at specific logs

[dense fossil]

Well, I told him to look at the wowhead guide

[round thistle]

in m+, is it worth it to use puzzle box going into aoe pulls if shadow blades is down, or should i always hold for blades?

[dry flame]

I hope you told him all the speficss we pointed out

[dry flame]

You use it as a 3 min trinket (every other cast of Blades)

[dense fossil]

I did, I messaged everything up from the guildon usage, Apex talent optimizations, and the overall summary. @dry flame

And now I can rest assured that it wasn't gear issue

[dry flame]

Almost never is

[dense fossil]

Will also talk to him personally tomorrow afternoon.

Oh also, before I go, is there anything that he should perhaps track in CDM, which may explain his non-usage of certain abilities?

[spice kelp]

Hey all had a question. I’m just about to hit diminishing returns in mastery (have plume). I’m just short on hitting 700 haste so wonder if it’s worth it to use a haste flask which would let me hit 700ish vs using a mastery flask which I know would put me over dr. Could swap trink to crit but still doesn solve my haste issue.

[acoustic lodge]

is it worh it to delay the 2nd sec tech for the final 2 seconds of blades if hero isnt up?

[hazy breach]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[dusky yacht]

Why is it better to double evis instead of keeping AA up?

In dance

To get more coup procs?

Can't be it

[acoustic lodge]

If you don't have the trinket... I assume it remains the same?

[tepid trellis]

apex isnt strong enough to miss out on the extra finishers, outside of doing it on Super charged Eviscerates

[dusky yacht]

Thanks Stealthi

So I was actually doing that wrong

Still parsed good

I wonder what the hell the other rogues are doing then

They're just vibing

[tepid trellis]

you can parse very well without playing close to optimally especially this tier where its mostly just about pad dmg

so the worse your guildies are at padding

the easier the logs will be

especially for sub this tier as we dont really do burst AoE any more but more consistent dmg so if it all gets sniped by devourer DH's then you just on your way to a purple log

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I can't do shit for cleave damage like almost every time except like chimaerus where adds are stacked and groups divided (mythic)

[karmic stream]

Just for clarification:
Is that the thing where your combo points are capped and you send another builder to proc the skid marks on screen?

If not, what am I thinking of? (recent Sub convert because Outlaw is in the dumpster rn).

[tepid trellis]

yes its the forced overcap

[karmic stream]

Right, tysm

[bright briar]

am i right to want to play rogue more then mage

[tepid trellis]

if you wanna do less dmg

sure

go ahead

[karmic stream]

And so your confirming that it's just better to send finishers rather than do that, yeah?

Except for... Lust?

[tepid trellis]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[tepid trellis]

you only do that

and nothing else for it

[karmic stream]

Ah sweet thanks!

Hey what's the prompt to get all those ! Codes up?

[vagrant sinew]

dont think there is one

[karmic stream]

Fair enough

[lilac stag]

If you have a competent boomkin or devourer you’re fucked.

[tepid trellis]

well boomkin dont really "burst" either

is more so Dev DH's and MM hunters that are rats

[bold brook]

Parsing ≠ skill for a long time now, it either involves killing early, being surrounded by noobs and praying for good kill timers or rng, parses actually blow ass as a metric for good players

[gleaming crane]

Guys is This Talent better for m+ than warning signs?

[marble sail]

warning signs is better

[gleaming crane]

Because i saw casual playing it in his new Video

[wraith sphinx]

warning signs 100%

[marble sail]

which video

[tepid trellis]

PE is slighly better on mass AoE with alot of mastery

[wraith sphinx]

the faster you break your daggers = more dps

[hazy breach]

During BL*

[tepid trellis]

but for anything not high target AoE warning signs = better

[gleaming crane]

Pit from yesterday

[marble sail]

probably testing stuff out, he is doing 19-20s lol

that talent wont really be the cause of the time or deplete of those keys

[hazy breach]

The talent also looks better than it actaully is. It turns your crits from 200% > 210%, aka a 5% damage increase on crit, so with around 40% crit thats like 2% damage.

The damage increase from auto attacks from warning signs is slightly above 1% (in big aoe), so you dont need many extra clones from the extra sht stacks before it becomes better

[bright briar]

is sub or rogue easier to play i just came back to retail im so stuck between rogue mage and devour

[marble sail]

warning signs is also way cooler because it makes u basically fist of fury because ur so fast

[marble sail]

sub is very simple currently

assa is pretty damn simple too to be fair

[plush roost]

Also PE on st is beans

[dusky yacht]

Anybody know how to find the haste spreadsheet thing for the breakpoints? I just noticed without oils I can't even really sectec twice with guidon + 4p on dummy

[lucid jackal]

U need 700

[dusky yacht]

fml

[bright briar]

700 haste?

[hazy breach]

Yes you want 700 haste

[bright briar]

how much is 700 haste in percentage

[lucid jackal]

Just look at the rating

Dont look at the %

[tepid trellis]

between 19-20%

[bright briar]

okay bet

[hazy breach]

Im specifically giving you the rating because if youre night elf, goblin or any other race that gets haste as their passive it gets messed up

As only the rating matters for dance uptime

[lucid jackal]

Its also like

Rounding

19% can be 680, and lie, 710 or smthing

680 would literally be wrong

even if its 19

[bright briar]

so best to just go full 20% right?

when you pick nelf

[lucid jackal]

LOOK AT THE NUMBER

THATS UR BEST BET

LOOK AT THE NUMBER

[bright briar]

okay 710

[grim wasp]

Why archon gg puts mastery above haste? Im new to those sim stuffs i just tend to get the required numbers 😂

[lucid jackal]

cuz archon.gg is telling u 0 useful information when it comes to stats

[short radish]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[grim wasp]

I seelet me check the discord to see what stats is needed

[lucid jackal]

U need 700 haste

and then whatever else crit/mastery

[bright briar]

nah you gotta have 680

[grim wasp]

I have 818 something haste

[lucid jackal]

thats too much

U want less

[grim wasp]

I see and does the 700 haste include the thalassian oil + haste flask?

I stopped using haste flask and swapped to mastery

[tribal vortex]

you need to see 700 when you open character panel

[tepid trellis]

yes its with everything

[grim wasp]

I see because i go well over 900 with buffs

[dusky yacht]

So it's not 700 with consumables etc it's 700 unbuffed