subtlety

[swift tinsel]

lots and lots of missing context

[fast crypt]

Is it bad to just swap to different specs like outlaw or assassin without a specific set of armor to cater to that specs secondary stat priority?

Because the other builds stat prios are different than sub

Also i want to frame my question in the lens of performing competitively in keys +12 and heroic raid environments

[swift tinsel]

if the tank got 100-0'd its possible it was a tank mistake

i.e. getting bonked in the back

[hazy breach]

Stats do not matter that much

[brazen stone]

just play sub if ur doing 12s tbh @fast crypt

[quaint lodge]

Not particularly in that content level, but there are breakpoints to hit on outlaw and sub for instance, that assa doesn't have

So they're just kinda less fun if you aren't hitting those

[brazen stone]

sin and sub have prty similar stats, id only saw like 3-4 pieces i think from my sub set

[teal coral]

We still have a section of best gear from m+ on the m+ page

[quaint lodge]

Whispyr in sub chat?

[torn tide]

he is the almighty, he can be wherever he wants lol

[fast crypt]

When are people swapping out, I assume +16 and up?

[open depot]

yo any sub tech for Mythic Alleria tyvm

[sly shore]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[undone ridge]

cant find it in the pinned section

can u help?

[lilac stag]

currently no. It’s my own personal project.

[cobalt otter]

!log

[grizzled bay]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

You can use liquid armory to filter dungeon gear and see what you want to target as well

[swift tinsel]

Season 1 Mythic Tips

[lilac stag]

yeah I’m not adding another addon that arc handles perfectly well

[swift tinsel]

I think I had already bought into wangbar and had it set up before arc had both cp and energy support

was using sensei before that and was annoying with delayed cp when it had that issue

[teal coral]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/mythic-plus-dungeon-tips#dungeons-gear

[tepid coral]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[swift tinsel]

I'm partially paranoid that arc will get bricked for being too good and I'm back to square 1 having to cobble a bunch of addons together again lol

[quaint lodge]

only real thing i can think of is using sd in intermission to farm supercharger

[open depot]

ta

[lilac stag]

arc got cp a few days before wang. Just needed to dl beta version

[lilac stag]

real and true

[swift tinsel]

It had cp but I don't think it had energy, it was one of the two

[lilac stag]

well it had both a few days before

[tepid coral]

If i remember correctly, we shouldnt macro guidon with shadowblades

but i dont remember why 😛

[lilac stag]

I remember the discord wanting to suooort wang which is cool

[final cedar]

would it be troll to use shadowstrike in aoe for prio dmg or is that a real thing

[quaint lodge]

Its not a real thing

You could, but its not exactly contributing the prio damage you'd be hoping to

[hazy breach]

I mean its definitely a thing

[swift tinsel]

you lose one second of blades

[hazy breach]

And it is noticeable prio gain

[quaint lodge]

Is it really

[lilac stag]

Strike and Apex for prio dmg

[quaint lodge]

I stnad corrcted, trust that guy

[lilac stag]

yes really

[swift tinsel]

ye I'll strike in aoe if something really needs to die or to break banshee shield etc in spire

and force apex coup

[hazy breach]

One strike especially for macabre

The others are like whatever

[lilac stag]

add a backstab in

[gentle patrol]

Does Subt have problem with energy? we don't take Thistle Tea anymore?

[final cedar]

but its not something i should do regularly then

[swift tinsel]

not regularly

[hazy breach]

Nop, you have infinite energy during dance

[lilac stag]

We haven’t taken tea in multiple expansion

[final cedar]

cool ty

[open moss]

iam the only one who is confused?^^

[swift tinsel]

now that tea doesn't give mastery its kinda pointless for sub

bc we're energy capped when we actually need energy

[north garnet]

is there any addon that lets us move debuffs?

[somber sun]

Hey, guys would it be okay to go dual wield crafter daggers? I'm currently sitting at 252ilevel and wanted to improve my off-hand, I was thinking of going murder row dagger on that slot. ( Main hand first pic and off hand second )

[somber sun]

Edit mode -> debuff frame

[hazy breach]

Offhand is the least important slot

So basically crafting anything else is gonna be better

[north garnet]

THANK YOU

[hazy breach]

Also murder row dagger is just straightup worse than a dagger with hunt

[torn tide]

is sub not viable for anything above 12

[hazy lichen]

whats arc

[north garnet]

wrong 🔪 🔪

[somber sun]

should I recraft all the crafted gear ( main hand/belt) to 275-285 ?

then think about the rest after

[undone cliff]

Which part?

[torn tide]

lmfao so its still good then

everyone keeps talking about going to assa in highers

[brazen stone]

higher as in like 18s 19s

[shrewd lantern]

Thats the

not play rogue angle

[swift tinsel]

Arc UI

[jovial mountain]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[olive helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy lichen]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[plucky turtle]

Does guidon break stealth if i use it in stealth?

[keen dome]

Yes

[plucky turtle]

🙁 aight so cant use it prepull

[hazy breach]

You dont want to do that anyway

[fierce wing]

Anyone able to do some log review for me?

[hazy breach]

Just hit it when you strike and its fine

[plucky turtle]

So i can just macro it in to Shadow strike and thats fine?

[shrewd lantern]

it should be its own bind

[north garnet]

can i hide exhaustion or exclude it from debuffs?

[torn tide]

oh lmao

[shadow lance]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[brazen stone]

but i was also just askin, i did some keys with sin rogues and they were just

toppin dmg in 18s

[upbeat cradle]

Don't worry we feel the same on WoW 😂

[celest spruce]

guidon optimisation is not necessary during bl right

[swift tinsel]

still is

[torn tide]

now sin is just "bleed 1 then CT to spread to everything then spatter" right?

[swift tinsel]

you're still spattering while you're CTing

[celest spruce]

but u get second sectech during SB + dance window no matter what with guidong + lust?

[hollow forum]

in WCLs how can i check if im capping energy or capping combo points

[swift tinsel]

since it can still give a bunch of cp

[torn tide]

sounds alot easier and more fun than before lolol

[swift tinsel]

on big pulls it takes a long time to spread to everything

[fathom adder]

is feint enough to soak gloom at the dragonboss or do you need to use cloak as def?

[limber folio]

rogue pumps on alleria? PauseChamp

[frosty sinew]

kinda just lines up itself in lust

[signal heath]

did they get rid of dmg meters again lol why ther fell my shit bugged

[swift tinsel]

you can supercharge your 2nd sectech with guidon+lust

[celest spruce]

thats what im saying 😛 during lust + guidon u can just play the game and it works

or am i cooked

[swift tinsel]

you're still lining your dance up with the latter portion of blades

[torn tide]

more dps than mage?? impossible

[round jolt]

Guys please help me , I am a shame for the Sub community , I need help with the rotations and the skills , please help me , I need a professional help

[swift tinsel]

it just means you'll have sectech earlier in your 2nd dance than with just guidon

[somber sun]

Onto which secondary stat do you spec into after reaching 700 haste? CC ?

[sullen hare]

I was gonna say "boy do I have some bad news for them"

[limber folio]

we just hit p3

[reef canopy]

Any tips on how to do well on the paladin bosses? I can never seem to do well on them

[swift tinsel]

instead of just having 2nd sectech be in the late portion of your 2nd dance

[limber folio]

i died and this was damage as we wiped xd

surely r1 sub

[swift tinsel]

sub is the worst spec in the game at paladins

[round jolt]

I am last dps in every dungeon

[raw frost]

i wanna ask does everything stack ? like 30 % more dmg in CD-s

[hazy breach]

Go to your character select and change to another character

[limber folio]

idk, ele is up there somehow

[quaint glen]

guuys i need to find out why i suck dck in raid xd in m+ i have perfect cd management 140-150k overalls without issue, but at the raid i just cant pop up that dmg on adds or multi targ 😄 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rrT7uk2GrWAAqpVr8jB8YM sim is also quite a low

[shadow lance]

yes

[limber folio]

but you want ele for raid buff anyways

[raw frost]

thanks

[hazy breach]

Yes, but its multiplicative, so its actually 33%

[swift tinsel]

sub is legitimately the worst spec in the game at paladins

[raw frost]

perfect ;d

[limber folio]

just like

use Potent Powder

[torn tide]

wow okay

[swift tinsel]

they are

[limber folio]

so bad

(i am benched on paladins)

[swift tinsel]

like I said

[quaint glen]

same

xd

[swift tinsel]

legitimately the worst spec in the game at paladins

lmao

[frosty bramble]

Paladins gameplay is extremely engaging lol wdym

[frosty sinew]

i'm playing sin on pallies

[limber folio]

but thats why im in on alleria

[sullen hare]

Check #subtlety-faq , read the guide, read the pins there, then read the pins here. There are so many answered questions there you just gotta read through it. You'll get better responses to questions like "I don't understand why we use trinket up to a second before shadow dance" rather than "help, I don't know why I'm doing less secret technique damage than a rogue I was in a pug with!"

[keen yew]

just play assa smh my head

[frosty sinew]

tbf even assa does low damage

[lusty acorn]

I have ques they every new season give us boost to level 90?

[swift tinsel]

ye sin is still lower-middle damage on paladins but better than sub lol

[frosty bramble]

It’s not the worst though and that’s all that matters lol

[keen yew]

spent like 4h optimizing dances throughout the fight as sub just to realize playing sin would yield higher numbers without even thinking

[frosty sinew]

have multiple pulls where im 100 parsing and losing to multiple greys

it be what it be

[swift tinsel]

yeah its best to just not have meters on when doing paladins as rogue

and then casually never check your paladin logs against other specs

[frosty sinew]

tbf i'm rarely lowest damage but

[shrewd lantern]

yeah thats the tanks

[frosty sinew]

that says more about other stuff than sin

[keen dome]

Just turn on a more interesting statistic for the fight

[swift tinsel]

I do Damage Taken or Interrupts

[dire ravine]

Is there a working solution in our kit for the gargs in PoS?

[swift tinsel]

maybe Healing

[swift tinsel]

burst them

I don't think you can vanish/cloak/evasion it

haven't tried evasion though

[dire ravine]

not enough pp for that move sometimes, unfortunately

cant cloak, cant step

[swift tinsel]

I usually pre-kidney them

[chrome palm]

vanish works

[swift tinsel]

and get 8 seconds

oh nice

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah sure enough they consider it a root

[wicked fox]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[shrewd lantern]

just another reason rogue is just worse than ret

in keys this ssn

[swift tinsel]

freedom is so fucking busted this season I stg

[wicked fox]

can we have 3 sectec in one dance with guidon?

[shrewd lantern]

does wake still stun undeads

[swift tinsel]

swear they made everything coded as a root out of laziness

yes

still stuns

undead and demons

[shrewd lantern]

[swift tinsel]

30 sec cd 5 or 6 sec stun

crazy value where its useable

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

longest aoe stun

when it works

[swift tinsel]

solid MC value

and pit

[shrewd lantern]

isnt there an undead part

[radiant swift]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[shrewd lantern]

of windrunner

[sweet moss]

anyone get a bug\

where ur macro doesnt use secret tech

[swift tinsel]

I actually don't know if they're considered undead

[keen dome]

That's a good question

I'll try to rmember to check

[swift tinsel]

I know a lot of the time they lazy out and make things humanoid that should be otherwise

[lilac stag]

or you’re out of range

[swift tinsel]

I'll hop in a follower dungeon after work and check bc I'm curious

[lilac stag]

Or have zero combo points

[swift tinsel]

hmm Kroluk is undead so I assume horde ghosts are too

neat

[keen dome]

I'm bored so I'm doing it right now

[shrewd lantern]

its an area of syl’s fanboys

so i would assume

[wicked fox]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[keen dome]

the starting guys are all undead

[swift tinsel]

but axethrower says humanoid

oh nice

[wicked fox]

do I need to use guidon before shadowblades or on 2nd dance? it isn't clear

[sweet moss]

maybe range

isnt the other thing

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah the alleria section is humanoid iirc

[shrewd lantern]

spectral

not undead

[swift tinsel]

so the boss of that section is undead but the mobs are humanoid

[keen dome]

Yeah, all the stuff on uh, the sylvanas side? is undead

[swift tinsel]

grunts are undead

lmao

[outer orchid]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[keen dome]

haha

[swift tinsel]

no rhyme or reason to horde section ig

[keen dome]

Yeah

[quaint glen]

how can there have guys 35+ mil dmg on voidorbs on vaelgor, i barelly have 18-20 😄 i have almost same amount of black powder as them, what am i doing wrong T.T

[dense geode]

Many factors comp diff is a thing

[frosty sinew]

it's really comp/player rng

if other people are playing to omega pad off orbs you wont get much damage

[west bough]

Hi, does anyone have the macro for both ranks of prepot one by one?

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[radiant swift]

has anyone ran a couple sin keys with sub gear? is it terrible or good playable?

[frosty sinew]

its fine

[swift tinsel]

its fine as long as you don't have abysmal crit

[quaint glen]

im going insane with my gray logs

[frosty sinew]

they have similar enough stat priorities

[radiant swift]

oh i tought sin wants crit

[swift tinsel]

it does

which is why you don't want abysmal crit lol

[silver hearth]

hey ya'll reading two different guides one says shadow strike on 3 or less one says 2 or less which is it?

[tranquil sorrel]

Why are sims telling me to use Crit mastery gems ? It literally drops me below 18% haste if I do that

[silver hearth]

It's in the FAQ, sims basically not accounting for ping or human error with haste, there's a slight work around

[fleet acorn]

does it matter on which weapon i have mastery or rendorei?

it both procs only from auto attacks no?

[hazy breach]

It does not matter

You can also run 2x agi instead

[old ravine]

box or guidon for m+

[frosty bramble]

Sims accounting for 2x oils , change that to anything else

[radiant swift]

well u odnt run to much crit on sub anyway or u got that much

[swift tinsel]

that's why I'm sayings its fine as long as you aren't foregoing too much crit for mastery as sub

if you're playing sin with the same gear

but you can always just use crit flask

which you should anyways as sin

[radiant swift]

good call

trinkets seem fine too

[swift tinsel]

ye just play box as sin and you're chillin

[hollow spear]

Just noticed that the rank 1 parse on Saldahar got PI on the small orb spawns, I can't

[dusky yacht]

Bro there are legit people coordinating in group to get one of them high parses it’s so cringe, pretty sure my last guild had a small clique of those

[swift tinsel]

that's not uncommon

esp later in farm

[dusky yacht]

That makes it more cringe to me rather than less cringe

[swift tinsel]

why

farm is boring as fuck

[hollow spear]

it's just funny how early the Chinese start with this stuff

[swift tinsel]

and parsing is kind of a meme anyways esp when turbo boost comes around

[dusky yacht]

Tf is turbo boost

[hollow spear]

For some reason they also managed to make it show up even if you exclude CN from lorrgs

[swift tinsel]

lol

[swift tinsel]

later on in the season they add additional upgrade tracks to gear

so ilvl goes up

[dusky yacht]

Lmao yeah okay then I’ll def be bored too

Time to get my parsing crew going

[hollow spear]

your bis gets even bisser

[swift tinsel]

to this day I've never maxed ilvl after it got to turbo boost time

usually checked out of the season by that point

[dusky yacht]

LF Enh shaman, Spriest, what else is good for sub rogue surreal dps

[fleet acorn]

nice im finally at heroic dawncrest

[dusky yacht]

Sick bro

I’m still 272 with champ trinkets

#prayforGlenn

[elfin wadi]

does it matter which enchant is in the main hand and which is in the off hand?

[hazy breach]

It does not

[chrome palm]

@lucid jackal i cherry picked this just for you time for a new tweet king

[swift tinsel]

doubt we'll see anything til after 12.0.5 anyways

[dusky yacht]

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[chrome palm]

tank specs are outbursting us man

[dusky yacht]

Shit bro what are we gonna do

[chrome palm]

you wanna see something funny

[dusky yacht]

Shut down the rogue discord collectively? All 10 of us?

[swift tinsel]

now imagine they give us some nutty busted raid buff and a fuckton of people flock over, see the guidon delay shit and blizz fixes it insta lol

[chrome palm]

my paladins kill got a little scary

[plush roost]

Beloran egg dam incoming

Ah shit

[chrome palm]

i am NOT posting that

[dusky yacht]

Damn you outdpsed a feral

Nice

[swift tinsel]

that's a guardian

[dusky yacht]

I’ll write this on my 2026 bingo card

[dusky yacht]

Let me live in my happy delusions

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[chrome palm]

remember when everyone was coping that they nerfed burst across the board

and then ele does 2x your burst now

across 30s

[keen dome]

ele burst is wild

It's the 'ol Shuriken Combo

[dusky yacht]

Have you tried pressing buttons

[keen dome]

Sub can't have it. Everyone else can.

[swift tinsel]

except they get to do it two seasons in a row instead of getting it yoinked mid-prog

[chrome palm]

imagine being the guy that decides to roll a shaman/dk/hunter at the start of TWW

what an insane luck streak

[keen dome]

Haha

[chrome palm]

you are just god in every patch

[keen dome]

I was doing some keys with my very good ele buddy last week and they were hitting, like, 700k? on some packs

it's insane

I'm not mad

[swift tinsel]

I miss our damage graph

[keen dome]

I think there was one boss they sat at 200k+ ST due to minmaxing the.. ribbon? stacks or something with the tank

[swift tinsel]

this is just

so fucking lame

[keen dome]

yep

They labelled it properly though

MID rogue

[chrome palm]

bro look at feral

compared to us

isnt this insane

[dusky yacht]

Kinda cool to compare shit

[swift tinsel]

looks almost identical to sin lol

[chrome palm]

i tricked you, this is GUARDIAN

[swift tinsel]

LMAO

owned so hard I died

[chrome palm]

LMAO

maybe it is feral

[dusky yacht]

Art

[swift tinsel]

brb making this my pfp with permission

[keen dome]

lmao go for it

[dusky yacht]

Art stolen with permission

[keen dome]

I still Rogue is fine, esp as you look on the bigger picture but maaaan do I miss the niche, the burst. We need a raid buff so bad. Come on, Blizz, pretty please 🙁

[dusky yacht]

I don’t think it’s gonna happen, look at us or eu rogue forums, place is more abandoned than a desert

[hollow spear]

For my sanity I will make rogue my alt next season

[keen dome]

I will never main anything but Rogue and then complain about my puglord lifestyle.

Intense "You did this to yourself, you have nobody to blame but yourself" energy as my identity

[dusky yacht]

I will main rogue and work superhard to make it appear as though we’re fine but we’re actually not and then enjoy people crying about it

[quaint glen]

i still dont understand why blizz nerfed aoe on sub rouge before season, we are literally bottom cleaners

[keen dome]

It's a mystery to us all, I think.

Outside of them using M0 data.

[quaint glen]

i think they didnt use any data, they just did random stuff

xd

[chrome palm]

i dont wanna drag it on too much, but i think fine is a bit of a meaningless word

[keen dome]

I don't disagree

[chrome palm]

fine to me means "does not need immediate change", which i think rogue definitely does

[rain hazel]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[swift tinsel]

took a sec but we got there

[dusky yacht]

We should be OP with minimum effort then we could be cool and have fun

[keen dome]

It's very hard to realistically qualify 'cos it's pretty dependant on what content you are doing with rogue, right?

[chrome palm]

when people say rogue is "fine", im not sure how bad a class would need to be for it to not be fine

being not brought to all but 1 fight in the rwf should be a clear indication it isnt

[quaint glen]

well at least we should have burst with cds like before T.T

[keen dome]

If you look at the big picture, Rogue is performing pretty well in like, Heroic and lower ranked areas. It's fine in most content outside of the very tippity top. It's also doing decent in keys until like 13 - 14. So, if we use that metric? It's 'fine' if not great. But then you look closer, at higher ranked content, at the integral and consistent issues with the entire class like a lack of a +dam raid buff and it isn't fine. It needs support.

Also the lack of a strong identity since Mid took away our burst niche

That's how I qualify it, anyway.

[keen dome]

The feeling around it, I think, has a lot to do with your level of content and how you play the game. But there is absolutely a lotta stuff that could and should be changed to immediately, massively improve the class / spec.

[swift tinsel]

idk if I've ever looked that far down the percentile list lol

25th holy

[hazy breach]

Well yeah, thats sortof my point

[dusky yacht]

We’re so back

[frosty bramble]

The 25th percentile hits different, when everyone else also is bad

[hazy breach]

Like the lower you go the better rogues look

[keen dome]

And the higher you go, the less people there are going to be.

[hazy breach]

So its fine, just no reason to be bringing them on the higher end since they dont fill any niches

[frosty bramble]

So just surround yourself with bad players then you’ll look really good

[swift tinsel]

our IQR and tail are really short compared to most specs

which is interesting

actually shortest tail of all it looks like if looking at heroic all percentiles

so its just harder to be bad at sub lol

[keen dome]

It's hard to get an accurate picture of it, but WoW's playerbase and how they interact with content isn't like.. An equal increase upwards.

[swift tinsel]

or rather, being bad at sub is less punishing damage-wise than most specs

[keen dome]

It's like.. less than half will touch raid content, of that, maybe half will touch heroic. And of that, less than half will touch mythic.

[chrome palm]

as we get more data on the harder bosses on VS

it looks worse

[swift tinsel]

that range is tiny

[hazy breach]

But yeah, the stats i posted is why theyre not just buffing it by a big percentage

[keen dome]

I'm more amused by Arms tbh

Look at those arms go

[hazy breach]

Obviously they could make rogue good by tuning up the numbers to 10000

[chrome palm]

to be clear im not arguing for a big buff

[hazy breach]

But the issue is moreso design wise

[swift tinsel]

same

[chrome palm]

just that the class is utter dogshit in every aspect of its design

[swift tinsel]

bc having a really small range means very little skill expression available

[keen dome]

Lacking meaningful utility is always going to be more impactful than damage knob.

[swift tinsel]

which is indicative of a mechanical problem within the spec

[chrome palm]

even for like casuals

who wants to play the class that cant live in delves

[swift tinsel]

hey we'll be able to with new crimson vial thing!

[keen dome]

That's a cool change

[swift tinsel]

huge W for the rogue community

[raw ridge]

what's the best replacement for the crown necklace?

[keen dome]

Like, we complain about it. But it's actually just a really good QoL change.

[swift tinsel]

it is, yeah

[keen dome]

We want more of those.

It's why I'm actually kinda hopeful about a raid buff because the writing is on the wall. It's pretty obvious and we're an outlier.

[keen dome]

Crafted, most likely. Midnight Falls, too? Not sure on M+ selection though, sorry.

[chrome palm]

pvp quest neck

is good

[swift tinsel]

I dunno, its probably just overt cynicism but I won't be surprising if nothing meaningful changes

[keen dome]

oh yeah, huge. I forgot about that.

[raw ridge]

this one right?

[chrome palm]

yessir

[swift tinsel]

yer

[raw ridge]

ty lads

[keen dome]

AoE blind coming back after negative response to the change. A pretty (imo) meaningful change to rogue survivability in non-instanced content which has been a pretty constant complaint in general. Those are worth seeing as the positives they are.

So I am hopeful, even if not expecting it.

[vale osprey]

As they say - the 👏 orbs 👏 need 👏 to 👏 die

[keen dome]

Hell yeah it's orb destroyer 9000

Blasting

[swift tinsel]

Again this is probably just cyniscm but it's indicative of a vision problem within blizz, because it never should have been taken away in the first place

[keen dome]

Absolutely agreed.

[swift tinsel]

so to get it back feels like a cheap handout

[fallow nimbus]

with 2 items i went from 272 to 279 now i just need a gaze and i can parse

[keen dome]

It shouldn't have ever been changed in the first place, but reactive response to us going "uh what no??" is important because a common complaint is that we are ignored

[swift tinsel]

and its hard for me to see as a positive instead of neutral because its something we had, was abruptly taken away, and then begrudgingly returned weeks/months later

[keen dome]

Ye, I think that's very fair. It is more of a neutral change.

[frosty bramble]

it makes alot of difference for keys i think also, (aoe blind) - most rogues dont kick, cheap and kidney on cd like they should in higher keys

[keen dome]

Agreed.

Also flipside: rogues are 1000% going to wipe nexus groups

and that's really funny

[frosty bramble]

yeah remove the button and check talents, but yes they will

a boomie did that once to us already

[keen dome]

I had a paladin do it to me too

[frosty bramble]

"wdym i cannot beam the group of adds"

[keen dome]

lmao

[twin surge]

is anyone having issues with gaze where it refuses to proc for like 40-50 secs in the start of a fight?

[sage pond]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• **The first dance tracker

[radiant swift]

is there a way to find out which portion of dps from details was taken or not showing in logs?

[gentle temple]

Good tunning 💀

[paper tendon]

smells like 3 paladins

[gentle temple]

You guessed it right

[paper tendon]

ye it's just the boss issue

[frosty bramble]

cleave just sucks now. i miss when evis cleave was better than the fok>bp spam

just not a rogues fight

[sick jackal]

check this out from week 1

feels like rogues are bad at cleave

becouse nimble flurry is like a placebo at this point

[shrewd lantern]

well most relevant nimble dam

is from the coup hit

and not much else

[grim sage]

does this look good stat wise

with mastery pot on

[hoary fox]

hey, sorry if this is written somewhere, but is "dungeon slice" good to use for sub or nah?

[lilac stag]

it’s ok. Sims all need a bit of forward thinking since you’re likely wanting to keep 700 haste

[signal heath]

damn so how far ahead is ass over sub in M+ now?

[lilac stag]

the non-fret version, get 700 haste and pump mastery and some crit for keys

[tight fjord]

happy days

[shrewd lantern]

only heroic

/s

[tight fjord]

yea whatever it'll come in vault eventually since we're killing both myth bosses weekly

[shrewd lantern]

[tight fjord]

cutting edge mallaka

[kind fern]

boy would i kill for a gaze

[quaint lodge]

Speaking of sims

Is there anyway to force the sim to value haste more highly

Not like, add oils enchants, and add it urself

But like from a ismulation perspective

to account for the 50 haste difference

[hazy lichen]

feel like only way to parse in most mythic fights rn is to pad

[quaint lodge]

It doesnt feel that way, it is that way

I honest to god hate tis raid so much

[shrewd lantern]

check ryldd’s compare where he has 100s for boss dmg and purple for overall

[hazy lichen]

name

[shrewd lantern]

his logs are priv

psure

he ss’ed though

#subtlety message

oh yeah that

[limpid sage]

ye if you wanna get 99s/100s

but that’s never not the case

[dusky yacht]

I’m aiming for a smooth 80

[still vector]

fk dude feral is slept on apparently lol

[dusky yacht]

[shrewd lantern]

mfo had goofy shit too

but mostly with how farm logs were worse than prog

[covert stratus]

whats the best way to use algethar with shadowblades?

[frosty sinew]

use it before every second blades

basically just use it as a 3 minute trinket

[warm marlin]

That shit was blue/green overall mate

[frosty sinew]

sub rogues are going crazy on the pad

[warm marlin]

We play the long game for when they remove orbs on dragons and little orbs on salad and void droplets and normalize shield damage and etc etc

My goats at wcl

[frosty sinew]

i played sin on dragons

just to not deal with padding my dick off on orbs

boss dam life

[alpine wraith]

likely devourers still did 5m more on each boss

[frosty sinew]

i beat one of them

!

[alpine wraith]

wait their dps is weird on bosses

the devourers in my guild did like 27 and 26 on boss one and 2

maybe you killed it earlier

[frosty sinew]

7:16

[shrewd lantern]

so assa tier

[frosty sinew]

think ill only play sin on drags/pallies

[alpine wraith]

i also had to do the soak

that was annoying

[warm marlin]

I mean ye assa is just better at playing that style

I just don’t like it

[covert stratus]

i have 791 haste and the sim says to put in a haste gem is that right?

[spice matrix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frosty sinew]

sim is probably right

[shrewd lantern]

how cooked is playing assa with guidon

asking for a friend

[frosty sinew]

worse than box but i don't think its horrible

[shrewd lantern]

but i mean yeah assa always been better at straight up boss dam

sub kind of has gotten by on add spawns/kill timers

for a hot minute

then some brainlets be like

[warm marlin]

In theory sub’s st is really good this tier so it should end up good at it

[shrewd lantern]

"we need to be able to spam more"

[frosty sinew]

subs st is better than sin i think

just sub loses way more st to do pad damage

[shrewd lantern]

ngl if they didnt nerf spatter

i might have commited to sin

i literally went into np like

"ok they dont nerf spatter this is the safest choice"

[warm marlin]

I am very happy we private log prog as well because early tier parsing is just diabolical

[frosty sinew]

i just go for boss dam parses

[shrewd lantern]

im a proud grey gunther on salhadaar

my tanks dont put boss on small orbs

[frosty sinew]

i had 100 parse on saladbar

for boss dam

and 82 overall

[shrewd lantern]

i see rank 1

[frosty sinew]

nb!

[shrewd lantern]

20m to small orbs

mostly nimble

[warm marlin]

Yeah the rank 1 guy played box and held blades for them to spawn

[hazy breach]

Me going into bfa "hey man this shuriken combo thing and no aoe seems really cool, i should play sub"

[shrewd lantern]

isnt that what fim did

too

[hazy breach]

💀

[shrewd lantern]

its funny since they cut combo in half on beta

then changed it to 8

before patch went live

[warm marlin]

not like this…

[shrewd lantern]

oh no he used cds on amp

@warm marlin this log?

[undone ridge]

ty❤️

[warm marlin]

It was at 5 mins I think

There’s a giant spike when that huge orb wave spawns

Maybe the log got beat idk

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zp7XYTFKQgdGaMnJ?fight=19&type=damage-done&start=6805195&end=6826723

probably that one

[lilac stag]

Woyer second arc when?

Or was that weak that went warrior and got don’t try to mess with our apl

[raw frost]

I wanna ask guys

for this do i need to press like all of my spells ;d or i can just switch 2 only

[alpine wraith]

you kinda ignore it

[raw frost]

for instane for single target i spam shadowstrike + eviscerate let';s say

but if i wanna be optimal need to press black powder and shurikens ;d

[hazy breach]

no

[indigo wraith]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[raw frost]

so you can cast coup de grace and black powder at the same time ;

[hazy breach]

no

[indigo wraith]

no

it will cast coup de grace instead of black powder if its up

[raw frost]

oh i see xD

if it's not will spam blakc powder

[indigo wraith]

yeah

[raw frost]

perfect xd

soi about the talent

just ignore it and do my rotation and that;s it

[dark prawn]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mtRa69G7WHVrPNXC?fight=1&type=summary&source=1

Can anyone help me improve? Anything obv wrong I am doing here to keyparse so low?

[swift tinsel]

When did Top Gear add a section for consumes just below gems and above the options section?

kinda neat

[ornate arch]

!logs

[fast vigil]

quick sanity check mid pulls, do we powder spam on 2 dragons even when there are no adds?

[warm marlin]

It got a big update this morning but I didn’t notice this

Kinda huge

[swift tinsel]

yeah I def dig it

felt like I was scrolling down further than usual and didn't realize why at first lol

[lilac stag]

This morning

[sterile nacelle]

with potent powder yes

[fast vigil]

ta

[brave moth]

Do people try to play around Flawless Form and keep it up somehow or does it just happen naturally? I see people have 98% ish uptime while I stay around 95%

[hazy breach]

Nope, no need to track or think about it at all

[lucid jackal]

Ignore it

[graceful rock]

I tracked it in TWW solely just to see how many stacks I could get

[brave moth]

Ya will stop tracking it and I will have more uptime on it copium

I think I am losing the buff because of stupid movement on my part

[covert anchor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush pilot]

Any reason why my first shadow dance is 1 second shorter than other logs I've looked at?

[wicked urchin]

is there a way to set up bars like this with custom ticks?

[wicked urchin]

haste/DS bug

?

[hazy breach]

Probably because you either dont have guidon or you macro guidon with your dance

#subtlety-faq message

[plush pilot]

Yeah I macro guidon with dance, is that bad?

[wicked urchin]

yes

[plush pilot]

fark

[alpine wraith]

you are entering dance too early after guidon maybe

yepo

you are basically playing without 1 trink

[plush pilot]

omfg

[wicked urchin]

you want to cast around 1s before dance to guarantee the haste applies to your dance

deepening shadows is cringe

[plush pilot]

thanks for the heads up, time to go fix my macros

[abstract turret]

Can someone help me with my sim? It doesn't ever give me the recommended amount of haste and always just goes super hard mastery

[dusky yacht]

Read faqs

[abstract turret]

yeah i did, im following that recommendation

[dusky yacht]

Good, the sim thinks you’re a bot, you’re not, you want wiggleroom. In other words to get down like a baddie on the dancefloor.

[left ledge]

hey guys

just a question

how do you find it in you to do rogue keys

i feel like my soul is leaving my body as i play rogue in keys

[dusky yacht]

I top the dps every key I do

Just find 4 complete idiots and pretend you’re amazing

[left ledge]

thats nice but do you feel good about it

[dusky yacht]

Yes

I’m amazing

[left ledge]

i think ive lost that feeling

with every storm bp i press

i feel emptier

[dusky yacht]

I feel bad for you

[left ledge]

the sectecs just dont feel juicy

idk man

CAN WE GET SOME VISUALS

OR

SOMETHING

HOLY

SHIT

[dusky yacht]

I thought there were new visuals but I haven’t played rogue since a short stint in wod 2v2

[left ledge]

wtf you just said you top every key you do

[dusky yacht]

Yep

[left ledge]

but you havent played rogue...

[raw frost]

guys

[left ledge]

and you're replying to me asking about how people are playing rogue

[raw frost]

does with supercharged points you bypass the 7 point limit ;d

[dusky yacht]

I’m Kurokage

[left ledge]

ok?

😭

[dusky yacht]

I’m playing Rogue now

[left ledge]

bro is giving me

these vibes

https://youtu.be/owM5EO7KcaQ

[hazy breach]

Casting a 7 cp finisher thats supercharged counts as 10 cp yes

[dusky yacht]

I am 100% Luffy

I’m gonna be king o da pilates

[raw frost]

i think its 9 ;d

because it counts as + 2 only

[hazy breach]

Forced induction

[raw frost]

or that';s what it says in the tooltip

[hazy breach]

Right below

[raw frost]

oh yes

XD

my bad

10

pff so with coup de grace

[dusky yacht]

He argued with Eleem, we all do that once

[raw frost]

you can do 15 points evicerate :d

pff 😄

[dusky yacht]

[tribal blade]

nelf is awesome

[hazy breach]

Ye, and thats why our 2p is strong

1.5% per combo point spent when you spend 15 is good

[raw frost]

yes xD

so if i paly should i wait only for 7 points finishers

or 6 is fine as well xd if i am not lucky with the points

[paper vessel]

why do we sometimes get 3-5 cbp with ST during SD?

[radiant swift]

just for understanding is the ment 5 extra cp the 50% dmg from apex ?

[hazy breach]

No

Coup

[radiant swift]

ty

[undone ridge]

!embellishment

[tribal blade]

because it spawns clones

that procs apex

[hallow mortar]

Those mythic boes look so tasty

[jade oasis]

yeah got one and now i have enough gold for the whole expac

[hallow mortar]

I looted one too, but shortly after officer opened trade window with me 😄

[jade oasis]

does your guild not give you a cut of the gold?

[hallow mortar]

Idk, they use it for consums

[jade oasis]

yeah so does my guild but

person who loots it gets

35%

[hallow mortar]

Wow

[short radish]

yeah taking everything is kinda cringe

but /shrug consumes are also expensive

[distant bison]

i see these chineese sub rogues doin their burst like dance > stech > shuriken > evis-evis is that more dmg makes u get rid of silent storm buff and more trough danse macabre?

[hallow mortar]

They sold those boots for 3.4

I was getting very excited about having mythic boots not knowing its boe yet 😄

[hazy breach]

Nop

Its about the same, so no point bothering with it

[short aurora]

i see chinese log, i close it

[tribal blade]

chinese players kinda do their own thing

[short aurora]

there is some sorcery in there

[tribal blade]

wouldn't look to them as the optimal way to play

[hallow mortar]

They always have some weird logs

[short aurora]

king saladaar logs are hella cursed

i need to put cuffs on the other guildies

the good old, everyone is doing so much damage now cant pad anymore

[torn tide]

that shit is a different level

[barren haven]

in algerath we pick the mastery dragon like the wowhead guide says?

[hazy breach]

Or vers

Theyre about the same

[barren haven]

does it count towards dimmishing?

[torn tide]

is it okay to have 609 haste? thats all i can really get rn

[lucid jackal]

Use a flask then

[torn tide]

thats after using a flask LOL

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/diddy-baby-oil-oil-him-up-xllcarolinellx-gif-17289803066735751001

[torn tide]

ayo

[buoyant shale]

Questions about rotation: So on pull when you double dance, there's a period where the second dance has a few seconds left and secret tech comes off cd. Do I pop ST then or wait for a fresh dance? Also should I stop using dance 40sec before blades come up so I have 2 dance charges ready or just stop 20sec before?

[marble path]

has anyone figured out how to make bcdm show supercharged combo points when at 0 cp?

searched it in here w no answers 😭

[tepid trellis]

you never generally speaking use Sectech without pairing it with dance, and you stop sending sectech/dances when blades has about 10sec cd to be able to double dance blades

[buoyant shale]

10sec is enough time for the charges to reset? Thanks, good looking out

[tepid trellis]

well you dont need to have 2 charges ready immediatedly when blades is ready just 1 + a decent bit on the next charges to be able to 2x dance the 20 sec blades window

[shrewd lantern]

im having a great time on paladins

idk what people are saying

[jagged coyote]

With Guidon, I heard that you dont want to macro it with Shadow Dance due to the haste effect taking a second to affect it. Is this true?

[tulip light]

Yes

[jagged coyote]

Boooo, back to manual clicking

[shrewd lantern]

just have a macro bind?

[deft moss]

can some1 tell me if i did this correct?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4WvL838K5mGhFsBwRqjgKG

[obtuse orbit]

anything else worth tracking on CDM besides AA and ST

[faint gorge]

guidon pulls you out of stealth right?

[north garnet]

yeah

[faint gorge]

so for the opener i have to use it after SD right?

or do you just SS->trinket->opener

[north garnet]

noooo

yes

[faint gorge]

got it ok ty

[north garnet]

you ss -> pop trinket (wait a moment) -> baldes dance secret

[faint gorge]

is a moment just like one global or is it longer than that

[north garnet]

due to how the servers work it can be anywhere between 0.2 to 1sec

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[kindred sable]

Is there a way to get notified/alert when SB has 10 secs remaining on CD? Or is reading CD values something the addpocalypse nuked. I currently track it on my CD manager but was wanting something to yell at me to "conserve" in prep for SB

[short radish]

no

just look at SB before you dance sectech

[serene notch]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[dusty totem]

Rip rupture

[lilac stag]

Sorry too focused on 2 buttons

[dusty totem]

meme is not even correct anymore

[kindred sable]

Got it, TY. Just new to Rogue this expac and I find it's the part of sub im fucking up the most, especially if my mind is focusing on some raid mechanic when it comes up.

[short radish]

go on lorrgs

download timers when people press things

look at that

makes life a lot easier

[gilded ferry]

ngl assa is kinda fun as well

[short radish]

why think when other people can do that for you

[short radish]

you're entitled to your misguided opinion i guess.

[gilded ferry]

thats how i found out that people hold blades for avezian hc for some reason. idk why, but started doing as well

[warm marlin]

there's a big add set at 2mins

[short radish]

yah you only get a second use and im gonna assume that lines up with a set of adds

[warm marlin]

or 1:56 ish

[gilded ferry]

so, its a pad thing

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[gilded ferry]

i love ST bosses and we have oneish this tier

that kinda blows

[gilded thistle]

do ya'll think I need more crit? I haven't been parsing well lately and I'm trying to figure out why

this is fully buffed

[short radish]

the entire tier blows

donkey ass raid

that people are now only going to remember fondly

because of lura secret phase

[static bough]

So, still pretty new to Sub, have a quick question for yall: I have guidon and puzzlebox, as well as solarflare prism, should I run both on use trinkets, or guidon and prism?

[deft moss]

2 on use?! ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[static bough]

noted, using prism

[sweet meteor]

To parse well on Voracius, we would need to add pad wouldn't we?

[hasty laurel]

Alrighty - thinking M+ - Just always holding Blades for Puzzle box - so just treating blades as a 2 min cd. Yay or nay?

[viral phoenix]

for the raid dragons sec tech clones cleave off of hitting boss right? just wanna double check if theres wierd ass stuff again

[warm marlin]

clones always cleave from the center of the target. they will hit both dragons because the offtarget has a massive hitbox but they will not cleave orbs

[hazy lichen]

got my first 100 parse i understand it now

[cinder swan]

what u parsing?

[karmic stream]

Would also like clarification on this

[golden harbor]

Does this macro still work? I feel like I get 3-4 extra BPs before it registers that coup is ready
#showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[wicked urchin]

crown is so fun as melee

[lilac stag]

chat we high rolled

[short radish]

holy shit

he's pogging

[fleet wharf]

you guys dont do BS on your mains?

the repair bill was too much

[tribal blade]

did you end up saving myth crests in case that dropped

[lyric iris]

still without passive good trinkets 😭

[lilac stag]

YES. GOT BOOTS TOO

[tribal blade]

nice nice

[lilac stag]

SO DO i OUTLAW ON VAULT NOW?

holy caps

[dawn trellis]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gilded thistle]

nvm i think it was just skill issue

[lilac stag]

[wicked urchin]

i just shadowstepped vorasius into 1000 puddles going off oh no

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin imagine TWW sub on beloren

with prism

Holy chills

[warm marlin]

chills

[sweet meteor]

How much haste do we want? Wowhead says 650-700 but sim is saying to lose some haste (would be like 630 ish)

[north schooner]

#subtlety-faq message

[tranquil sorrel]

Is this still accurate?

I thought we WANTED to supercharge the 2nd dance sectec

[tribal blade]

*imagine TWW sub on every boss this raid tier

[north schooner]

imagine it on that boss in npx

[tribal blade]

i was thinking they could possibly bandaid sub's cleave problem by adding strike and evis back to nimble, then reducing the target count nimble hits from 7 to 3-4

then tuning nimble up to compensate for the reduced target count

[fleet wharf]

I think them being able to tune evisc and strike separately from other aoe is a good change, no?

[tribal blade]

it is yeah

[fleet wharf]

otherwise we keep getting bp buffs like we saw most of tww

[tribal blade]

i have a lot of ideas tbh

[warm marlin]

ok but how do they make low target cleave not worst in the game without overtuning bp in mass aoe

[fleet wharf]

idk, just give us our burst back

we can be shit at cleaves

[tribal blade]

this is the major conundrum yeah

[fleet wharf]

as a tradeoff

[tribal blade]

being shit at cleave is an enormous weakness

as is evidenced by this raid tier

raid will always have cleave

[fleet wharf]

i mean assa and outlaw have cleaves, maybe we can spec out of sub when sustained cleave is needed?

I dont think homogenization of specs is necessarily a good thing

[tribal blade]

but being this dogshit at cleave

i think is not good

[warm marlin]

outlaw has the exact same problem

they removed their low target cleave tuning tool as well

[tribal blade]

it's what they fixed with nimble after so many years of sub having this problem

and we've gone right back to it

[tribal blade]

yeah removing that talent has made a big diff

[fleet wharf]

I havent touched outlaw much so I didn't know. but it seems like all of our specs are kind of lost

[tribal blade]

outlaw used to have the talent that increased BF dmg when you were missing targets from BF's max

[fleet wharf]

we have poison ret, stealthy ret and pirate ret

i am so happy

[tribal blade]

sin at least has a niche of doing high boss dam and big prio

[warm marlin]

your bf went from like 60% at 8 targets to 100% at 2 target

with the talent (precise cuts)

now its like 33% flat

[tribal blade]

yeah it's nuts they did that

that was outlaw's niche

was doing exceptional cleave

which made sense because of their target cap

[fleet wharf]

when did they make the bf change though?

[tribal blade]

midnight beta

[fleet wharf]

oh, hmm

sadge

[tribal blade]

i remember seeing them remove that talent

didn't realize how big an impact it would have

[fleet wharf]

outlaw would've been in for pally if they had that i guess?

[tribal blade]

100%

[fleet wharf]

rip

the bench is warm, it's fine

[tribal blade]

that has old outlaw written all over it

[charred thunder]

On mythic Vorasius are most of us going pure single target builds or including cleave talents?

[warm marlin]

it was the exact same patch they gutted caustic spatter and nimble

good times

[fleet wharf]

we cleave naturally. what you do depends on what your raidgroupo needs

[tribal blade]

yeah the spatter change was also crazy

[charred thunder]

My thoughts exactly p much, just checking

[tribal blade]

AND the nimble change

they kinda nuked all 3 rogue spec's cleave in 1 go lol

[fleet wharf]

the hydra stance thing that mm hunters got is new this expansion isn't it?

[tribal blade]

no idea

i'm most frustrated at the fact that rogue is literally the only class that blizz has shown 0 effort to use heavy hands to fix

we get this little pitty patty buffs that do nothing

[fleet wharf]

surely they're just saving it for the next tier

[tribal blade]

while everyone else is getting big swings and tuning

[fleet wharf]

yea, v frustrating

[tribal blade]

also they have made 0 effort to make rogue more playable with a dmg raid buff or utility

i dunno anymore

with blizz

[fleet wharf]

in 11 days we are getting aoe blind back, surely that will solve all of our problems

[torn tide]

the premed buff is still around isnt it

[kind fern]

im gonna lose it

[short radish]

gzgzgz

[kind fern]

guess i gotta go play assa now

[tepid trellis]

[brisk onyx]

[hasty laurel]

Holding shadow blades for 30 seconds to wait for puzzle box

[short radish]

the answer is "it depends"

hope this helps

👍

[lilac stag]

losing blades cast is bad

Treat it as 3min trinket

[bold brook]

@tepid trellis

Wouldn't usually at but...

[mystic axle]

Can i post logs in here for feedback? I can't identify what I'm really doing wrong but my dps is far below what I think I should be doing

[lilac stag]

Use !log

[mystic axle]

!log

[mystic axle]

tyvm

[tribal blade]

the premed bug? yeah it's still there

[torn tide]

oops i meant bug

damn, that sucks

[tribal blade]

it's not a big deal, it kinda works out because we don't want to apex sectec anyways

[final gulch]

rank 1 paladins kill btw. w class tuning

[lethal kettle]

Is anyone aware of a way to correct the Trickster bug? Flawless Form is stuck at 3 stacks, Unseen Blade animation is triggering, but Coup de Grace isn’t activating.

[tribal blade]

rank 1 parse fighting with the tanks and gray parsing dps

blizz: this is fine

[tribal blade]

reload/relog

should fix it

[honest void]

somebody has to

[swift tinsel]

according to blizz

but hey no tuning for a few weeks so we get used to it

[tribal blade]

the fact that they aren't doing big changes to rogue after all this coming to light

[swift tinsel]

they just truly don't give a shit

and will just aura buff us

so it pops up again

later

they honestly probably just don't have a cohesive vision for any of the three specs

or how they fit into the raid/m+ ecosystem

[honest void]

they are giving me aoe blind soon

for a stockholm syndrome rogue player I'll take that I guess

[swift tinsel]

but even like a "We saw rogue got benched for the last 3 of 4 (and should have been 4 of 4) bosses in the tier, for reasons that aren't simply a turn of the tuning knob and are going to the drawing board" blue post

or any acknowledgement whatsoever

but communicating anything like that with players is just an insurmountable task apparently

they don't even tell us when they fix bugs that make things better for us lol

[honest void]

they know all rogue players are masochists

so as long as they name drop us every couple months/years we will stay loyal

[left ledge]

i think its okay to suck at some things

but we went from being an insane cleave spec to the shittiest one in the game, and we dont excel at anything

[tribal blade]

not suck THIS much

surely

[left ledge]

like if we had great ST or great aoe and shit cleave

ok

but we dont have great ST or great aoe either

idk why people say we do

we dont!

[tribal blade]

sub has good aoe, but not the best

[subtle gazelle]

didnt help that they did the thing they used to do, and just go oops all ranged, they would sneak in mechanics that would be way harder without melee, and they just didnt do that this tier at all, besides DK you can rpob get away with just no other melee on most fights

[tribal blade]

given how bad our cleave is we should have rank 1 aoe in the game

no question

[mystic juniper]

Hey! Does anyone offer coaching for sub or know someone who does? I’m in need of assistance and don’t know what I am doing wrong.

[left ledge]

idk man quite a few specs shit on us in mass aoe