something like that
#subtlety
jade oasis
sharp ravine
yes
dark creek
Thanks
Sorry another question, in m+ if i we start the key with 2 supercharged cps and the first pull the tank is gathering.. are we spamming shuriken storm and / blackpoder without sd on the mobs and wasting the 2 supercharged sps or are we just spamming shurikenstorm and go for big sd/st with 4 supercharges as soon all is gathered?
keen dome
Sorry another question, in m+ if i we start the key with 2 supercharged cps and ...
You can just wait for them to gather, or just auto-attack.
'Cos we're doing fuck all damage outta dance ANYWAY so may as well just build stacks of sht
dark creek
K thx
ruby helm
We need a dot (like legion) - discuss
keen dome
Why
jade oasis
Sorry another question, in m+ if i we start the key with 2 supercharged cps and ...
i only press shurikens while they gather
i don’t do any spenders
vale pine
!up
wicked joltBOT
steep raven
!wa
wicked joltBOT
Essential:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
Quality of Life:
Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
Mute Cold Blood sound
jade oasis
We need a dot (like legion) - discuss
just make black powder apply rupture on 8 targets like warrior gets free rend on thunder clap and whirlwind
wild vine
I kinda liked nightblade
Tho it could be more of a debuff that has an impact on your other skills
keen dome
Nightblade was cool, yeah.
My ideal improvement to Sub is a turbo burst button I.e., something we fuel via dancing or SecTec's and then unleash when needed. Basically a Prism-esque ability to massively enhance a specific burst moment to bring that niche back to us.
ruby helm
My ideal improvement to Sub is a turbo burst button I.e., something we fuel via ...
Could get behind that big-time. Like a cool down for when we're in a low period outside dual dancing with SB etc. Great idea
wild vine
My ideal improvement to Sub is a turbo burst button I.e., something we fuel via ...
So like deathstrike
But backwards
keen dome
Yeah.
keen dome
Could get behind that big-time. Like a cool down for when we're in a low period ...
No, you'd use it in tandem with CD's for bigger burst, not between.
We don't need damage outside of our CD's.
That's not Sub's identity.
ruby helm
That's not Sub's identity.
True, I suppose I enjoy consistent damage, especially in Keys where your chain pulling sometimes i feel inadequate
keen dome
TWW S3 Sub with less janky complexity for complexity sake, and the glory of our beloved Prism.
azure thicket
idk deathstalker is still mia two and change seasons later
keen dome
Sub isn't ever going to do consistent damage, we're a burst spec heavily reliant on cooldowns. Consistent damage is Outlaw.
The problem is that right now we lack the burst damage identity and have lost our flexibility to move it around.
ruby helm
Obviously thats the design of course, my only concern is the flexibility of the burst
^exactly that!
wild vine
It would be quite flexible if they finally bind sectec to dance
Even more so with the reverse deathstrike!
keen dome
Which is why if we had an abiltiy we 'fueled' with our general rotation I.e., every Dance gives us 1 Stack of Voidbound which is +100 agility, for arguments sake. And it stacks to 10. And it lasts 15 seconds or something. You'd stack it up as needed ready for the optimal moment.
You'd then use it in tandem with Blades and Dance, etc.
And go mega nuke.
Using it earlier if needed or later, etc.
ruby helm
Petition for reverse deathstrike / mega nuke 
keen dome
You could then tie it to Dance having a longer cooldown and more %Buff to dam, too
So the gameplay loop is optimizing your mega nuke for the ideal time, while still having good burst outside of it.
aka Prism
Also make SecTec only usable during dance I dunno
wild vine
So we gotta get
nightblade with a small soulcap effect and a finisher damage increase
Prism effect skill
Sectec only on dance
stuck arrow
I loved to play with soulcap in HFC
Soul cap best ticket in wow history and it's not even close.
I loved that shit.
keen dome
Yeah Soul Cap owned
I'd also take a Soul Cap style variant of the prism idea. Either or works for the goal of giving us back flexible mondomega burst window
wild vine
The memories of killing one of the mammoroth adds with a huge damage explosion while your raid was on the other one
azure thicket
i mean sub feels good right now it's avoiding that state where even out of cds it feels like the difference maker that assa did prior to getting kneecapped after season 2
wild vine
keen dome
Like, take Saladbar 2.0. You could save it up the entire fight for the second amp window, OR use it in the first depending on kill timings.
azure thicket
1 min cd cleave hitting everything with a vengeance
stuck arrow
The memories of killing one of the mammoroth adds with a huge damage explosion w...
When you cap procc'd your opener into the ring, and then burst the ring into a second cap proc.
So good
tepid trellis
imo the only real issue with sub right now was blizzard removing our single target burst and burst cleave, which was what made us strong in raids so taking away those two niches without giving us anything back what so ever has just left us in a blackhole of nothingness
wild vine
imo the only real issue with sub right now was blizzard removing our single targ...
That sounds way more dramatic
I like it
azure thicket
i mean rogue getting cleave on cooldown would be cool
void ocean
Blizzard giveth...
hasty laurel
Can we ST with out a dance proc after double dancing during blades?
tepid trellis
no
azure thicket
or just stuff that allows us to go over target caps
azure thicket
immediately fixes outlaw needing constantly blade flurry math based fixes at least lol
stuck arrow
i mean rogue getting cleave on cooldown would be cool
You'll hit 1 target or 4 targets, and you'll like it.
vale pine
imo the only real issue with sub right now was blizzard removing our single targ...
would add the loss of dynamic in cooldown management on top
tepid trellis
right now the only thing sub does "okay" is full single target and 8 target AoE
anything else
and it sucks
azure thicket
warrior/ww gets on fine with 5 target :y
keen dome
I miss nimble
azure thicket
we're ahead cause of soft capped and tuning
void ocean
there wont be any 12.0.5 reworks, will there?
stuck arrow
would add the loss of dynamic in cooldown management on top
Yeah. The pooling and planning aspect feels missing.
The dynamicism of Sub since forever felt so good to play.
void ocean
i was thinking they r holding us in a doghouse cause theres a rework on its way
keen dome
But outside of tuning I imagine not 'cos I believe 12.0.5 is release candidate already?
azure thicket
yeah it's a quiet mid season
keen dome
Not that they couldn't add stuff but I'm skeptical of anything major coming with it.
Maybe 12.0.7 or 12.1
void ocean
release candidate shmelease candidate
wild vine
i was thinking they r holding us in a doghouse cause theres a rework on its way
Another one?
keen dome
We're getting AoE blind!
azure thicket
it's only useful on that book pull in algethar smile
vale pine
Yeah. The pooling and planning aspect feels missing.
The dynamicism of Sub sin...
you still have similar amounts of pooling
void ocean
its only useful if u get invited
vale pine
essentially prepearing your burst by not using spells
what is missing, and this is not a subtlety specific problem
is dynamic
i talked about it a lot before, but essentially
most gameplay decisions now come down to stats or talents
stuck arrow
Idk - I don't really think it's pooling traditionally. Once you press dance you're drowning in energy. What you do outside of dance kinda feels irrelevant.
vale pine
while talents often got re-designed to not offer much choice
tepid trellis
well you pool ShT stacks before dances
vale pine
^
azure thicket
if you can get 4 blades casts over 3
tepid trellis
just not energy anymore
vale pine
while talents often got re-designed to not offer much choice
^ this is very noticable on most specs which got reworks, not only subtlety
azure thicket
idk the bleeding edge kinda technical stuff is definitely missing this season
vale pine
and it means, we enter a situation i feared would come
where tuning is even more important than before
tepid trellis
idk the bleeding edge kinda technical stuff is definitely missing this season
well they wanted most of that stuff gone from the game, to make it easier accessible
to just pick up a class and play it
vale pine
because classes don't offer the oppotunity to improve via good gameplay
stuck arrow
so it still pooling resources for dances
I mean that's true. It's just quite marginal compared to my favorite versions of the spec.
vale pine
if you have 3 buttons, there is only 3 buttons to press
its the same across wow
some classes just did not get the midnight update yet
the new game direction so to say
azure thicket
well they wanted most of that stuff gone from the game, to make it easier access...
yeah i mean the shadow strike optimization is literally 1% but you do it cause it's a: fun b: rewarding c: the most correct thing to do
same with the old double coup rotation
tepid trellis
fwiw they even want that optimization to not really be a thing
azure thicket
and it's like they're trying to avoid a headache it feels like
maybe cause 3 seasons an expansion is kind of a lot i dunno
tepid trellis
cuz its not "intuitive"
stuck arrow
fwiw they even want that optimization to not really be a thing
I'm sorry what? Actually?!
That's wild. I get making the floor higher - but is what makes the game fun not the optimization?
Is wow even what it is without the pve experience optimizing brought? What kind of wild direction is that WTF.
finite nexus
On phone, so cant do sims myself, but roughly or in «layman» terms, how big increase is it getting 18% haste(or more), compared to 13% forexample
rare plaza
!logs
wild vine
I'm sorry what? Actually?!
That's wild. I get making the floor higher - but is ...
I mean, there isnt really that much optimizing going on with many specs
azure thicket
it's like the design's goal right now is mandated burnout recovery downtime
which is finnnne
tepid trellis
I'm sorry what? Actually?!
That's wild. I get making the floor higher - but is ...
Well this one specifically is because From a design standpoint it doesent make sense as a rogue to ignore combo points and overcap on purpose when rogue is mostly about resource management. Hence the not intuitive part. It doesent really make sense that its a thing
Especially during our make or break Dance burst
azure thicket
Well this one specifically is because From a design standpoint it doesent make s...
but that seems like a issue with allowing supercharged combo points to exist
keen dome
I see it as more of an issue with how the Apex itself is designed.
azure thicket
it feels fine if you understand why it's good
like blizzard still makes wow feel like getting an iphone did back in 2007 or whatever
stuck arrow
I mean, there isnt really that much optimizing going on with many specs
I'd agree with that, as games tuned right now.
But I think it should exist.
The specs where it does exist generally are the ones blasting.
azure thicket
y'know it's mostly intuitive and only occasionally rage baits you
chasing 0 rage bait is dumb and antithetical to making good stuff imo anyway yap over
fallow nimbus
Our only note for 12.0.7 "fixed a bug that allowed apex to trigger with full combopoints" 
azure thicket
improved garrote still being tied to stealth is insane by the way
stuck arrow
Idk I do think stealthi has a point regarding the apex optimization.
But I do also think there should be cute like things like that. Even big things.
So long as you're pressing your buttons the available optimizations are the equivalent of a shitty raid buff.
azure thicket
i mean you want class design that can mold/scale to any dungeon without too much downtime
stuck arrow
Idk. I think you want class design that creates fun gameplay that makes people want to play your game.
But maybe that's just me being idealist.
sly shore
Sure, if this optimisation was fun I'd agree
stuck arrow
I'd rather have to change specs / talents than not have meaningful gameplay decisions.
sly shore
all 3 rogue specs have no niche rn
azure thicket
damage merchant
tribal blade
improved garrote still being tied to stealth is insane by the way
"we decided to make sin not tied to stealth anymore but it still is sorry"
wild vine
and a raid buff
Tbh at this point they could just make a raid debuff that increases damage taken on the mob
And it wouldnt even be anything special
tribal blade
crit/haste buff would be simplest
void ocean
knowing blizz it would be tank dmg taken
stuck arrow
crit/haste buff would be simplest
Like we had back in MoP/WoD. 💤
wild vine
crit/haste buff would be simplest
Crit would actually be cool and fitting even
tribal blade
this could literally be our raid buff
azure thicket
you can almost see where they cut stuff to avoid two tapping casuals sometimes
keen dome
Crit is what we've discussed the most, yeah
tribal blade
Crit would actually be cool and fitting even
yeah crit would be hot
keen dome
+3% crit, bam, rogue in everything
azure thicket
yeah crit as a raid buff would be super neat
stuck arrow
yeah crit would be hot
Or hat. (Honor Among Thieves - reworked into ShT)
tribal blade
Or hat. (Honor Among Thieves - reworked into ShT)
i think that's too complicated
keen dome
I think crit is the safest because it benefits everybody, Haste and Mastery are a lot more specific.
And it's the rogue stat
stuck arrow
Why not just give rogues crit buff part of HAT as a baseline, lol
vale pine
Well this one specifically is because From a design standpoint it doesent make s...
Think its a problem in player feedback
it does not particulary feel great to wait on ressources
tepid trellis
I think crit is the safest because it benefits everybody, Haste and Mastery are ...
then you have devourer which is 100% crit on their top dmg 
vale pine
so the design changed to make it so dance has always enough ressouces to not worry
this has two advantages
azure thicket
darknest night guaranteed a whole 3x crit
vale pine
first, you can lower pacing outside of cooldowns easy
azure thicket
sweet lord 10-14m envenoms on big momma lol..then cleave got bug fixed and and and
vale pine
second, it does not punish people for playing poorly
fiery fog
then you have devourer which is 100% crit on their top dmg <:catdespair:12396658...
Yeah but its damage is increased by 50% of their crit chance iirc
Wouldnt be completely useless for them
vale pine
if a lot of power is in dance, and active pooling and good ressource management is needed to perform on par with a ret paladin or bm hunter
while you do tank damage if you fuck up
stuck arrow
second, it does not punish people for playing poorly
Just also removes reward for playing well.
keen dome
Prism burst on big momma amp phase was so fun
vale pine
thats not good design
vale pine
Just also removes reward for playing well.
we had low reward for good play
its a balancing philosophy problem
blizz balances to make things played
not because they want a balanced game
subtlety can be the hardest spec in the game to perform
while at the same time being the worse in terms of output
a good example is season 2 tww
azure thicket
player personal improvement hopefully sky rockets after this season/with the shift in design goals
azure thicket
but technically the game feels lesser than prior versions though not by much
vale pine
this means the average output was lower
keen dome
player personal improvement hopefully sky rockets after this season/with the shi...
I went into this season hoping the change would result in a higher level of play in pugs due to less demanding and cognitively complex specs.
I was wrong to hope.
vale pine
so players who utializied these could make up for the lack of good tuning
midnight changes this, the skill expression is a very small part of output now
tepid trellis
Yeah but its damage is increased by 50% of their crit chance iirc
well its critical strike damage by 50% of your crit
azure thicket
the dungeons/raids are more cinematic/easier to observe while running them though
but people still let fire spit casts get out and clap someone so like
keen dome
I think overall the design change has worked out well, it just needs a lot more refinement.
stuck arrow
but tuning is more relevant
Tuning and raid buffs. Lol.
It's wild to me how much higher the difference in damage between being raid buffed and not is compared to meaningful skill expression.
That just feels bad frankly.
Some heroic fights rn having two raid buffs or not is the difference between parsing orange and blue.
vale pine
i mean its all about agency
nimble flurry is a good example
it was a way to allow players to decide between st with prio and aoe
this decision is gone, now its just non existent anymore
sly shore
the fact they removed aoe blind, realised it was a mistake but are not readding it until the .5 patch
is ridiculous
azure thicket
gouge is genuinely better than blind
sly shore
gouge is genuinely better than blind
one is aoe, one isn't
vale pine
that tuning always focuses on raiding
mythic+ is where things are allowed to be completely broken
sly shore
doesn't matter how good gouge is if it's just another single target stop
vale pine
only extremes get changed for m+
azure thicket
i know it's so good that they're putting it back in the game
but gouge is objectively better in most conditions except big massive pulls with swirlies and casters everywhere
sly shore
never felt more useless than I have in pulls in algethar
tepid trellis
Yeah but its damage is increased by 50% of their crit chance iirc
but ofc that is only on Star and not on reap which does close to the same dmg so yeh they would be fine with crit%
sly shore
where aoe stops are needed
azure thicket
yeah i know
right some players are okay with being stun bots
some jsut wanna plug damage
sly shore
I wanna be useful 
azure thicket
agency lol
wild vine
never felt more useless than I have in pulls in algethar
Saaame
azure thicket
nobody wants to fish for the monotonus lecture caster out of a sea of plater bars though lol
tribal blade
the fact they removed aoe blind, realised it was a mistake but are not readding ...
the worst part is they didn't even realize it was a mistake, it took people to be outraged and them going "ok yeah we heard you"
sly shore
I haven't done high high keys, but it is rough rn
like I even think
do I just roll aug evoker for keys
to make life easier
tribal blade
there are parts of dungeons where it feels really really bad to be rogue
wild vine
Ew aug
tribal blade
because you can't aoe cc
wild vine
(I have an uhdk)
tribal blade
i watched a fear go off in MT because 3 were casting at once
sly shore
we currently play brew, hpal, me, uhdk + whoever is available
tribal blade
and nobody kicked or cc'd
wild vine
we currently play brew, hpal, me, uhdk + whoever is available
Idk, ranged kinda feels off if you usually play melee imo
sly shore
ranged vs melee is w/e
fiery fog
Sometimes i wonder what ppl are doing in keys
Interrupts are rare in pugs
sly shore
resil 16 tonight for sure
tribal blade
Sometimes i wonder what ppl are doing in keys
Interrupts are rare in pugs
tunneling rotation
wild vine
And that you cant really track your damage via Details anymore
Unless I just fucked the settings up
fiery fog
tunneling rotation
While doing no damage
tribal blade
While doing no damage<:garf:1320173032743899157>
YUP
azure thicket
you have to reset data between dungeons/encounters to get accurate overalls
better log if you want more than that
wild vine
you have to reset data between dungeons/encounters to get accurate overalls
Ik, its automatically Set up like that, but for aug you previously had those slightly see through bars
That somewhat reattributed the buff dps
azure thicket
oh for aug
fiery fog
Im currently trying to solo pug to higher keys but i need to time every key one level higher than before (otherwise i wont get invited kekw)
And sometimes i wonder how people even get to their rio
The worst ppl ive seen were in 12s and they barely did more than the tank
sly shore
it's so funny how they haven't fixed aug on meters yet, even though they said they would
azure thicket
back in dragonflight i threw an aug under the bus cause the meters weren't working for them back then either 
azure thicket
🙂
wild vine
back in dragonflight i threw an aug under the bus cause the meters weren't worki...
Did he survive the impact?
shy scarab
Ranged is zug zug af after you played melee for a few years
azure thicket
no waycrest manor put me in mechanics jail and i blamed da aug
stuck arrow
Im currently trying to solo pug to higher keys but i need to time every key one ...
Some people manage to get carried the entire way. 😂
Played with a hunter today with 3.2k io that did tank damage, didn't interrupt, and died to literally everything. Was wild.
And we still timed the key - they got save Rio I did lol
tribal blade
Some people manage to get carried the entire way. 😂
Played with a hunter toda...
i hate to be that guy but 3.2k IO is not great
azure thicket
that's definitely the other longer term issue there's no rewards for doing mechanics you take downtime
and you don't die
which fine but also my prase
stuck arrow
i hate to be that guy but 3.2k IO is not great
It's not.
But also it's high enough that you do kind of need to be able to pay the game. Or should.
tribal blade
was pretty good
azure thicket
i don't think full pugging a 16 in 270 gear was a consistent repeatable thing last week but this week ye
tribal blade
It's not.
But also it's high enough that you do kind of need to be able to pay...
not really tbh, my friends and i have carried people through keys at that level
azure thicket
we all just get 5 item levels and step forward
and if you do set strats/routes ye you want aoe blind and stuff
fiery fog
Ngl 8sec kidney shot is hella op
tribal blade
if they would make aoe kidney
tribal blade
rogue would be so good
fiery fog
They wanted to do that once
stuck arrow
not really tbh, my friends and i have carried people through keys at that level
I don't disagree. But someone still has to be able to play the game is my point.
fiery fog
And removed it instantly
tribal blade
well they didn't realize they could just tune the secondary stun duration
instead of full duration or nothing
fiery fog
well they didn't realize they could just tune the secondary stun duration
Whats rogue tuning
azure thicket
that's just warrior's shockwave though
tribal blade
Whats rogue tuning
SORRY DOESN'T EXIST
fiery fog
We can just do +- x%
azure thicket
idk i think the main thing they could do is make all bosses available in m+
and make routes more dynamic
tribal blade
would be cool if it was something like 4 seconds on secondary targets
stuck arrow
I mean shit I'd settle for kidney or gouge getting an interrupt like that lock stun
azure thicket
let people warp around the dungeon at the start fight last with lust if they want get count etc etc
imagine doing grim batol out of order
mm
stuck arrow
Feels bad that some stuff just functionally immune to our "utility."
tribal blade
let people warp around the dungeon at the start fight last with lust if they wan...
that would break keys i think
azure thicket
i doubt it you still need enemy forces
tribal blade
for sure yeah
but if they were that non linear feels like there would be some massively degen things going on
azure thicket
i mean it would break mists of tirna scithe
but also stuff like when can we teleport
so would it really break mists
i dunno
stuck arrow
but if they were that non linear feels like there would be some massively degen ...
There was a time when more dungeons than not were designed non linearly. And shroud was actually good lol
tribal blade
There was a time when more dungeons than not were designed non linearly. And shr...
yeah there are for sure some dungeons that are non linear
azure thicket
i mean m+ is optimizing a route around timesaves involving lust and player cooldowns
it's not as insane as it sounds but def deeply entrenched systems aren't going anywhere
tribal blade
i feel like it would be as insane as it sounds, but who knows
would need to see it in real time
it's like resil
nobody could have predicted what resil would do to title pushing
azure thicket
vibes but i got 5 on brackenhide hollow coming back this expansion
azure thicket
bruh it was great on outlaw
tribal blade
waiting for the priest to run around and solo all the cages lol
then wyrnstoning back with aug bs
routing that dungeon was a bit of a nightmare
iron obsidian
azure thicket
yeah just push adrenaline rush when you see mobs roll dice apm max
it was fun cause it was scrappy
fiery fog
Brackenhide more like doodoohide
azure thicket
i only did it at a 20 in season 3/4 i think
you're not the only one who's said that dungeon is cursed at higher levels
azure thicket
ye like..waiting 30-40 minutes to brick a 23-25 in the first 5 minutes
is genuinely worth pushing the reset button on a bunch of core wow stuff imo
azure thicket
jesus dood
azure thicket
for me personally it was ruby life pools
people getting smushed by the meteors was perfect levels of rage bait/reward
fiery fog
TAKE OFF
fringe geyser
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
28
azure thicket
oh okay nah i only did the df dungeons up to 10s in season 4
tribal blade
this was the season aug came out
so i'm extremely proud of getting this title during god comp
oh i'm stupid i did 27
makes sense
i just BARELY got title that season
azure thicket
tribal blade
last key i timed to make it was 28 HOI like 1 hour before cutoff closed
azure thicket
tribal blade
i'm so proud of that 28 uld
ran it with a brew and rdruid
very non meta comp
everyone did so much dmg
we blasted that key
azure thicket
oh now i remember we had a undersea cable get cut and i couldn't get stable internet for part of s4 but yeah the dungeons in s3/s4 were the right mix of mean/casual
tribal blade
oh now i remember we had a undersea cable get cut and i couldn't get stable inte...
oh that blows, i had that happen last year
azure thicket
yeah felt that way about a 17 dawnbreaker at the end of last season
tribal blade
a cable got cut or damaged between hong kong where i live and NA
every single HK wow player couldn't play wow without enormous lag
finally found out by contacting some company who filled me in
and blizz did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help
i was so angry
azure thicket
indonesia volcano exploded
tribal blade
indonesia volcano exploded
oh shit
azure thicket
ye it was unfortunate lol
keen dome
damn
azure thicket
kinda nice to know if i had rolled an oce server the potential for weird stuff to happen would have been about the same lol
tribal blade
yeah a lot of weird stuff happens around where we live
cables getting damaged or suspected sabotage
china/japan/whatever shenanigans
china do be doing china things
azure thicket
ye 
olive canyon
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
azure thicket
it was either fort or tyrannical then?
tribal blade
what was your comp you played with?
tribal blade
it was either fort or tyrannical then?
you needed both score
azure thicket
so the strats would change a lil based on the week?
tribal blade
yes
azure thicket
also like bursting etc
tribal blade
very much so
tepid trellis
what was your comp you played with?
tribal blade
more so with the pulls
there were pulls you could do on tyran week you def couldn't do on fort
azure thicket
nodders
tepid trellis
played for 3 weeks
tribal blade
that's so crazy
tepid trellis
then i stopped
tribal blade
i honestly can't even comprehend playing at that level
where you can push for 3 weeks
and then time huge keys
tribal blade
nodders
i forgot yeah there were also push weeks
based on affixes
so you'd have dead weeks
like usually bolstering would be a dead week
what else
my memory is gone
azure thicket
uhhh most of them were free
tribal blade
yeah that was when it would eventually drop yeah
you could avoid that by even cleaving though
and target swapping
my favorite was tanks who would chain dying stuff into a new pull on bolstering weeks
oh sanguine
was well
was a pretty bad week
was fine to play though if you had a good tank
azure thicket
oh that one was mean without good movement
tribal blade
and on the ball people doing knocks n shit
tribal blade
oh that one was mean without good movement
yeah a lot of tanks refused to play on sanguine weeks
lilac stag
yeah a lot of tanks refused to play on sanguine weeks
rogues using crippling during sanguine 
tribal blade
rogues using crippling during sanguine <:kekdog:907207037757296710> <:pepe_chad:...
LOL i remember that
1 way to make your tank crash out
keen dome
I remember the most cursed sanguine run I did in DF. A frost mage slowing / stunning every pack in sanguine.
lilac stag
I can’t possibly switch to wound poison
tribal blade
don't forget the classic kidney a mob in sanguine
lilac stag
My dps
tribal blade
I remember the most cursed sanguine run I did in DF. A frost mage slowing / stun...
my first title during S2 SL i pushed with a frost mage
he HATED sanguine weeks
so much
keen dome
lilac stag
@tribal blade did you raid yesterday? Or is that tonight?
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> did you raid yesterday? Or is that tonight?
we did our 2nd night earlier
got dragons down
did some pulls on lura after
lilac stag
nice
tribal blade
was watching tactyk's video about paladins
and he specifically mentions it's worth bringing a rogue
lilac stag
did you start to cry?
tribal blade
so i was like "nice" because my RL has been recommending his vids to our raid team
tribal blade
did you start to cry?
I WAS VERY HAPPY
lilac stag
and what was the reason
lilac stag
I haven’t watched pala video yet
tribal blade
he focuses a lot on the healer/tank jobs
keen dome
You should just go "oooh, no, ouch, ooooowie I've hurt my black powder pushing finger, I can't possibly play this boss"
lilac stag
CT is on a different button
idle mango
yo! How to play correctly the Algeth'ar Puzzle Box please? I mean, when should I use it, in RAID, after the 1st cast (at the opening). On CD, with Shadow Dance, and wdk of shadow blades that doesn't line up? Or should I delay Shadow Blades for 30 sec?
lilac stag
@vale pine can we please get a puzzle command
Strike or storm. Cast puzzle. Treat it like a 3 min trinket.
idle mango
FAQ?
idle mango
OWW really? Oo
clear aspen
Hey guys, whats the best setting im Raidbots to sim top gear for M+?
azure thicket
FAQ?
4 seconds before pull if you're scared but trust your raiders, with full combo points as blades comes up
running is the last thing you wanna do with puzzle box buff
lilac stag
That seems like terrible advice
idle mango
indeed
azure thicket
okay so when do you puzzle box
lilac stag
I just said it
azure thicket
before dance/blades at least
lilac stag
azure thicket
yeah i guess doing it pre raid pull is a lil grief
lilac stag
a little?
idle mango
dont say it then^^
azure thicket
you lose maybe a second or two of the buff it's not 4-5-6
idle mango
Strike or storm. Cast puzzle. Treat it like a 3 min trinket.
I can't figure out if your were trolling or not....
azure thicket
so you get it on maybe 14 seconds of blades which is pretty okay
lilac stag
Way to make a 2 minute trinket with 20 seconds and 3 minute trinket with 14 seconds
lilac stag
I can't figure out if your were trolling or not....
That’s how you play it
You’re not holding sblades
it’s a bad trinket on sub
idle mango
ok ty
lilac stag
only poors play puzzlebox
hollow spear
The optimal way to play puzzlebox is to change spec to assa and use it before deathmark, just saying
dusky yacht
Strike or storm. Cast puzzle. Treat it like a 3 min trinket.
Strike or storm, throw puzzle into the ocean, live happily ever after
idle mango
yes I now, but there is only one better trinket ON USE; the Light Company Guidon... And I dont have it so...
lilac stag
you gave 4 options a week to try to get it from first boss. Get to work.
azure thicket
my hero chest gave the 200 mastery neck today
hollow spear
that's what "lfg" stands for: looking for guidon
idle mango
rng is rng, my playtime is my playtime, and I dont have the Light Company Guidon. I have the Puzzle, so I am juste trying to get the best out of it.
azure thicket
i mean...for pad though on crown of the cosmos
do you really have time to puzzle box before adds spawn
dusky yacht
What’s a hero chest
azure thicket
the weekly one for doing 5 dungeons
dusky yacht
Cool
lilac stag
and you do what you do with your time, but like most of us, if there’s gear that is better, we farm it
stuck arrow
The optimal way to play puzzlebox is to change spec to assa and use it before de...
Actually it's optimal to use after DM but before kingsbane iirc.
dusky yacht
do you really have time to puzzle box before adds spawn
No but you have time to drag it into the open and type ‘DELETE’
vagrant fossil
Is it a DPS loss to use dance 2 seconds before sectec is ready, so you drop sectec supercharged on 2nd spender in sd?
I suppose it doesn't make a difference if you don't have apex ready for first one, but is a loss if you have apex ready?
azure thicket
yes but how many other misplays happen during an encounter matters more tbh
vagrant fossil
For sure
tribal blade
Actually it's optimal to use after DM but before kingsbane iirc.
should look like this
if you cast puzzle after DM
you waste 2 seconds of DM
and 2 seconds of getting KB rolling during DM to ramp
stuck arrow
and 2 seconds of getting KB rolling during DM to ramp
I'm pretty sure it's a dps gain to do it after DM as wild as it sounds. Like 0.3% or something.
azure thicket
i guess the one takeaway im getting about casting in pre pull is you only lose a few shadowblades no dance eviscerates being puzzle boxed
tribal blade
I'm pretty sure it's a dps gain to do it after DM as wild as it sounds. Like 0.3...
honestly not sure i haven't been keeping up with sin very much
but that sounds weird to me
could be, maybe i'm wrong
azure thicket
but it's still not great
lilac stag
You don’t cast it pre pull
We’re not mages
Especially 4 seconds or whatever in prepull
azure thicket
yeah it's done puzzling and active at one but i guess having uptime for those evis casts is gonna go further than a shadowstrike
stuck arrow
honestly not sure i haven't been keeping up with sin very much
The APL casts it after. 🤷 I think like the rest it sin though TBH it doesn't matter that much.
silver pewter
soon guys ... soon
lilac stag
You know what that stike does? Teleports you to boss and gives full cp to start unloading all of your cds into the finisher spec
tribal blade
The APL casts it after. 🤷 I think like the rest it sin though TBH it doesn't ma...
i can't find a single R1 log doing that so far
lilac stag
Having that strike “juiced” is nothing
lilac stag
i can't find a single R1 log doing that so far
azure thicket
yeah but my cognitive load doesn't make me wanna throw box in the ocean
the strike in > puzzle box > cd loop isn't even that bad either
stuck arrow
Puzzle box deserves to be in the ocean though
latent finch
The APL casts it after. 🤷 I think like the rest it sin though TBH it doesn't ma...
The apl does use it before dm after the envenom
stuck arrow
Huh. Maybe I'm high on fumes.
lilac stag
Box is fine. The cast time is whatever. It’s shit on sub since it’s now a 3 minute trinket.
tribal blade
yeah it wouldn't make sense because you're trying to slam as many envenoms in DM as possible
and you want to get KB rolling asap with DM
lilac stag
There’s no cognitive load to it.
keen dome
Cognitive load is subjective, and for me there absolutely is in key content.
lilac stag
Guidon has more thinking involved than box
stuck arrow
I just don't like casts. That's why playing melee lol.
lilac stag
I just don't like casts. That's why playing melee lol.
Would you prefer a 2 minute trinket with a 2 second cast or a 90 second trinket with a 1 second “cast”
tribal blade
Would you prefer a 2 minute trinket with a 2 second cast or a 90 second trinket...
holy shit true
keen dome
Well you can break the former by moving or adjusting or kicking or doing anything whereas you can't for the latter
lilac stag
welcome to sub trinkets
keen dome
So that's a stupid comparison
tribal blade
also i was doing log review for a friend's friend and saw this
3 second wait time guidon wowow
lilac stag
So that's a stupid comparison
Most people are likely better to stand still for the second to not clip it.
azure thicket
can't we delay the guidon cast with a macro long enough to guarantee talents update
something darkness or whatever
wait no.. nevermind
tribal blade
can't we delay the guidon cast with a macro long enough to guarantee talents upd...
someone had the idea to macro backstab to guidon
so you get a forced gcd
could be better global to use maybe
lilac stag
Just do swirly ball so you get a visual
azure thicket
oh true
lilac stag
or count to 1
azure thicket
erm you're not counting to 1 the server is counting to 1
tribal blade
you do run the issue of not having enough energy to immediately sectec though if you guidon+backstab right before it
keen dome
erm you're not counting to 1 the server is counting to 1
well time is linear
lilac stag
You’re counting to 1. The server and you are in the same space time continuum
azure thicket
yeh right at the apex of time and space
stuck arrow
The apl does use it before dm after the envenom
You're right - but I'm not crazy lol. Changed like a week ago apparently.
Thought I was losing my mind.
tropic field
Are you guys using guidon manually and then instantly use SB with SD and sec tech macro?
lilac stag
You're right - but I'm not crazy lol. Changed like a week ago apparently.
Thoug...
Do they even have a simc profile yet?
stuck arrow
Do they even have a simc profile yet?
Yeah I think it was released with that change.
boreal cargo
I need your opinion guys, I already got a dagger crafted in main hand an I have a 266 hero dagger offhand, should i craft an offhand dagger? It would be my biggest upgrade but I fear to waste 80mythic dawncrest if I got a 289 dagger in my vault soon, what would you do?!
tribal blade
I need your opinion guys, I already got a dagger crafted in main hand an I have ...
offhand dagger is lowest dps increase for sub
lilac stag
You’re not wasting crests, but it’s also not likely your largest increase.
azure thicket
i saw a top 100 rogue with a oh green dagger with r3 enchants on it last week
lilac stag
You’re wasting a spark more than anything
boreal cargo
tribal blade
i saw a top 100 rogue with a oh green dagger with r3 enchants on it last week
lol nice
hollow spear
also i was doing log review for a friend's friend and saw this
maybe he found the new meta
keen dome
If you've got a crafted 285 MH and a hero OH then you don't really need to craft a second dagger
hollow spear
3 second haste update interval
boreal cargo
on raidbot I tryed to sim a craft of legs vs a craft of offhand dagger and the daggers was the biggest upgrade
pastel rampart
i have a macro to start downloading a 2 hour cat documentary in HD for ~1 sec on my guidon button and it forces my ping to delay dance by 1s and then stops downloading, idk why u guys having so much trouble with it....
tribal blade
https://raider.io/characters/eu/les-sentinelles/Naraa
from looking at your gear i can immediately tell you would gain more dps if you crafted boots
finite nexus
Bring back barmanshanker meta
tribal blade
or legs actually
lilac stag
Just run a droptimizer and see what approx increases are from crafted pieces.
lilac stag
do haste/mas and crit/mas depending where you are from 700 haste
boreal cargo
Ok thanks, I will sim again, maybe I fucked something up
tribal blade
also make sure you put the whatever enchant thing on legs
tribal blade
i don't think it would make a big diff
but yeah there's no way crafted legs wouldn't be a bigger dps increase than offhand dagger
azure thicket
last week it was giving me some weird results and preferring that crit trinket/crucible from skyreach over puzzle box
tribal blade
OH haste
azure thicket
i dunno some other people said dslice was giving them weird results but i'm sure it's fine, i think there was still some confusion about guidon being played in m+ or something
vagrant fossil
Simming sub atm feels a bit like just taking a guess
lilac stag
sims are always just guides, but now we have an outside conditional to worry about.
which you can manipulate with flasks and weapon oils
stuck arrow
Two choices really - play on the edge with haste on gcds and latency - or sim without gems.
vagrant fossil
If it isn't hitting a breakpoint for the bot, then haste is worthless. If it does then it's golden, but anything excessive is bad. So while you then get 700 haste like suggested because of ping and player difference between the bot, then it will just say "haste is useless"
stuck arrow
And then the problem generally goes away.
dusky yacht
also i was doing log review for a friend's friend and saw this
Guidon also takes you out of stealth
So he vanished, used guidon, lost stealth
tribal blade
Guidon also takes you out of stealth
nah this was mid pull
dusky yacht
nah this was mid pull
He vanished tho?
tribal blade
He vanished tho?
mm true yeah
vagrant fossil
He's just vanishing for Shadowstrike isn't he?
azure thicket
my sim currently prefers 17% haste on patchwerk with a myth occlusion of void/platinum star band
dusky yacht
But there is no shadowstrike cast
lilac stag
Vanish during blades like a chad
azure thicket
when will it end
tribal blade
yes he made a lot of mistakes haha
vagrant fossil
Fair fair
dusky yacht
I mean bro is trying
vagrant fossil
my sim currently prefers 17% haste on patchwerk with a myth occlusion of void/pl...
Sub sims are kinda bad
ivory orchid
I thought rolling rogue was a mistake
tribal blade
yeah i know, i was doing log review to help
i sent a thesis on everything he could fix
azure thicket
yeah if i get higher dps than what dslice projects im happy
tribal blade
just showing because it was interesting and relevant to what we were talking about
vagrant fossil
https://www.twitch.tv/imexile/clip/PleasantBenevolentSalsifyOSfrog-karuVe14Ew3QM9y2
Words spoken from Exile
ivory orchid
Can you look at my log @tribal blade
stuck arrow
Sub sims are kinda bad
Sims not bad. Haste breakpoints are.
tribal blade
Can you look at my log <@146180393941336064>
hehe i'm not a great log reviewer, but we have people here who love doing it
and a log channel here
lilac stag
Use !log
lilac stag
It generates a thread that everyone can see
tribal blade
you can also link it in here and someone will probably look at it
ivory orchid
Use !log
Do I just use that command and it prompts me to submit or do I use that command followed by a link to the log
dry flame
Is anyone actually using "Pawn" still nowadays?
i feel like last time i used it was like shadowlands
vagrant fossil
No, Pawn isn't really that good anymore since simming is so easy to access now
dry flame
That's what I thought yeah, i was just going over most downloaded addons and still super high up
steep adder
lilac stag
That's what I thought yeah, i was just going over most downloaded addons and sti...
Likely still works with the classic stuff
tribal blade
the last time i remember using pawn must have been like legion/bfa
lilac stag
and we yelled at you then
vagrant fossil
Yea, it was Legion for me
Back when Quin69 was somewhat level headed and said "But it changes every time you get a new piece of gear and you'd want to sim again"
tribal blade
and we yelled at you then
lol probably
karmic harbor
Anyone considering swapping to assa
Or is sub still gonna be the go to spec for world 300 losers
alpine wraith
rogue in general is the spec to get carried rn
but our dmg is not bad just casters are outstanding
tribal blade
the only fight where people are actively swapping off sub to sin is paladins
other than that sub is "fine" on all other bosses
alpine wraith
swap to caner spec for 10k dps
dry flame
but our dmg is not bad just casters are outstanding
literally - they are out (of danger), standing
alpine wraith
to only get beaten by 120k by hunters and devourer
karmic harbor
10k DPS is a lot!
ivory orchid
Swap to mm hunter imo
alpine wraith
you also die more often
karmic harbor
That's a skill issue
tribal blade
to only get beaten by 120k by hunters and devourer
i beat both of my guild's MM hunters on our dragons kill today
fleet wharf
isnt there a mechanic that only targets melee despite it saying 8 yard
karmic harbor
i beat both of my guild's MM hunters on our dragons kill today
On boss damage?
alpine wraith
well hc dragons is a bit diff
tribal blade
On boss damage?
on all damage
alpine wraith
because you cant get them together
karmic harbor
Holy
alpine wraith
on M
tribal blade
yeah on mythic
alpine wraith
rofl
alpine wraith
well sub is not that bad on dragons hey
alpine wraith
we can snipe orbs
tribal blade
it's impossible to beat MM
tribal blade
we can snipe orbs
EXACTLY
alpine wraith
the funny one is when they get their crit from trueshot on the add
then get dmg on boss too
karmic harbor
My damage is cooked on that fight cause I'm holding blades for intermission add
azure thicket
yeah don't hold blades
alpine wraith
just send on boss
tribal blade
yeah i just sent on boss
azure thicket
just send when it's up
tribal blade
get it on cd
alpine wraith
likely tank didnt pop cds would make more of a diff
tribal blade
the add usually lives into the bosses being back down
alpine wraith
than 2 dances
azure thicket
if you wanna be a hot dog i guess you could offset the first one so it starts lining up with add phases
alpine wraith
yea add can live like 10 secs into the phase
karmic harbor
Yeah but ours were getting 2-3 casts off while Drake's were down
So I just sent CDs into it
karmic harbor
Your guild can handle it better than mine then
alpine wraith
how many dps were dead
alpine wraith
like ours dies even before dragons come back down almost
ivory orchid
how many dps were dead
Wrong question, how many dps have brain cells
alpine wraith
just from people doing their normal things
azure thicket
it's weird hearing how other raid's melee sections are sorting out where the rogue goes
tribal blade
thing is my guild is full of people who don't look into their rotations
tribal blade
or i assume they don't
alpine wraith
they dont have it up for add
lilac stag
i beat both of my guild's MM hunters on our dragons kill today
did you do the PP BP spam or?
ivory orchid
I’m in a full casual guild and we are lucky to get some bosses down and basic mechanics quickly
tribal blade
did you do the PP BP spam or?
yeah i was talented into PP and finality
no WM
did top orb dmg
that's all sub is good for on that boss
lilac stag
my hope is we get through saladbar tonight
alpine wraith
yea we sipe we cloak the succ so snipe more
fleet wharf
did top orb dmg
do you guys not have a fury warr?
tribal blade
do you guys not have a fury warr?
we had a fury AND arms warr
lilac stag
or a boomkin
fleet wharf
hmm that gives me hope
alpine wraith
they cant really outsnipe us
but do decent dmg
boomkin is crazy tho
same as sp
tribal blade
you just wait for them all to get gripped
lilac stag
we had a fury AND arms warr
Which one is playing arms?
tribal blade
step>dance+sectec
holding dances for orbs like a fat chud because i'm trying to parse
tribal blade
the dps check for dragons isn't high enough to warrant being super ethical
doing chimaerus prog warranted being ethical more
to meet the dps check
also 2nd boss i did a fuckton of boss dam because we were missing the dps check
karmic harbor
Chimaerus is just group 1 diff
A billion times easier to parse if you go down first I think
plush olive
I'm going down 2nd and at least 1 set of blades is just fucked
tribal blade
iirc group 2 is the parse group for sub
lilac stag
Not really, not on prog.
karmic harbor
The grey dragons log goes crazy
lilac stag
Group 1 was swapping between boss and big add cd use
plush olive
also being made to do madness soaks ;_;
tribal blade
also being made to do madness soaks ;_;
oh gross wtf
fleet wharf
thats random though
lilac stag
the last set I had to unload on the add both down and up lol
plush olive
cant trust the other raiders to do it every time
tribal blade
why get a rogue to do that lol
plush olive
so I'm the sacrificial lamb
tribal blade
ah
karmic harbor
the last set I had to unload on the add both down and up lol
Gross
I never hit that add
fleet wharf
ohh you mean as group 2 you need to soak? thjats cursed
do you guys not have hunters or something
karmic harbor
Once it's out the spirit realm
plush olive
I go down 2nd
tribal blade
it's literally just run to the marker when your RL says to
plush olive
so the 1st group I soak their madness
lilac stag
if it’s the difference between boss kill or not, I’m swapping
karmic harbor
Surely you want range to do that so they can still do dps
azure thicket
+0.5% dps for patchwerk +2.2% dps in dslice but im going down to 15% haste with a crit flask
like what
lilac stag
long live my gray parse
ivory orchid
!log
karmic harbor
if it’s the difference between boss kill or not, I’m swapping
Can be, or you lose damage on boss and can't skip a phase
azure thicket
cause i'll do it
tribal blade
+0.5% dps for patchwerk +2.2% dps in dslice but im going down to 15% haste with ...
don't listen to the sim when it tells you to drop that much haste
karmic harbor
My guild needed more boss damage so I just let range hit it so I didn't lose uptime
lilac stag
Can be, or you lose damage on boss and can't skip a phase
The last set of adds there’s nothing to skip
karmic harbor
The last set of adds there’s nothing to skip
There's a timer you can miss
karmic harbor
Yeah that's a timer
tribal blade
tank gets sent down solo and burn
yeah we did that too
plush olive
we do have enough ranged to do madness instead but I think their just unreliable
lilac stag
But that add still needs to die
karmic harbor
Where you need more boss damage
plush olive
funnily enough the other person that soaks madness is a warrior
lilac stag
all CDs were back up with 22 seconds til wipe
karmic harbor
Add literally is stunned for 10 seconds during cast but ig it depends on your raid dps
/ comp
lilac stag
prog kills be prog kills
We only ran 5 melee so likely just covering for range tunnel
fiery fog
Prog kill logs are so meaningless
lilac stag
but this is why I’ll likely be in for all our prog
azure thicket
ye the pvp take on vers/haste for solo shuffle was uptime is king and i think dslice has downtime?
in bgs you run mastery for burst
flag capping etc
finite haven
hey can i ask what should i take as the 3 craft if its worth to take ring/wrist and what stats should i take on it
fiery fog
You can just sim it
radiant swift
does anyone know the stat amount on a mythic upgraded crafted ring?
azure thicket
i think im gonna craft pants so i can cata my old hero set into pvp gear and insta 4 set
pine oyster
!GUIDON
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
pine oyster
is this saying with guidon, well get 3 secret technique inside shadow blades or 2?
native heart
Hey guys, cant seem to find the info so im asking. Whats the preferred sim settings to sim for m+?
pine oyster
i was getting 2 without guidon though, so what makes guidon special?
tribal blade
i was getting 2 without guidon though, so what makes guidon special?
you extend the duration of both dances in blades
also more sht+apex
hazy breach
i was getting 2 without guidon though, so what makes guidon special?
During bl yes, but not outside of it
pine oyster
without BL im pretty sure i am, Sectec has 19 sec cooldown with my haste, sblades is 20?
hazy breach
Keep in mind the damage of secret technique happens 1.3s after you press the button
hazy breach
Because the clones don't spawn instantly
upbeat cradle
Hey guys, cant seem to find the info so im asking. Whats the preferred sim setti...
Dungeon slice
pine oyster
so basically open, pop guidon, sblades dance sectec, normal roto, then last 8 seconds of blades, pop dance again and sectec when its up?
native heart
Dungeon slice
thanks!
upbeat cradle
so basically open, pop guidon, sblades dance sectec, normal roto, then last 8 se...
That's what's written yes
pine oyster
coolio cheers fellas
plush olive
well chimmy finally died, just need to guilt trip my way out of madness soaks for next time
azure thicket
patchwerk told me to go double on use and i hate it https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u23QHbovGtKepeBzgv47Rm
hollow spear
Why are you simming without buffs and a crit flask?
dusky yacht
I’d never really do that, even if ‘recommended’
azure thicket
i hate assuming which party buffs i'm gonna have regardless of raid/dungeon
cause you can't have em all and i don't have a login for premium
open depot
patchwerk told me to go double on use and i hate it https://www.raidbots.com/sim...
There is no double on use
hollow spear
Not sure I can follow that logic
azure thicket
nah i get it, simming your best possible conditions is a better measurement
azure thicket
so that when you do get i dunno a rsham boomie uhh battle shout warrior you kinda know where you're at
dusky yacht
He’s a CIA psyop plant here to cause cognitive dissonance and make us fight each other
azure thicket
just simming with what you can supply yourself seemed at the time a better yard stick
open depot
I am here to spread wisdom and self improvement
ivory orchid
man my dps in similar ilevel is shit compared to yours
smoky estuary
sitting in this cart waiting for a tank or healer to join my group for 30 mins
open depot
man my dps in similar ilevel is shit compared to yours
You need help?
ivory orchid
gearing? no i think i see the difference I have the lowest pieces in the most important slots
chest and legs
steel zinc
i hate assuming which party buffs i'm gonna have regardless of raid/dungeon
that makes 0 sense since in any raid you have all buffs
ivory orchid
For rotation wise I have this weird segment where SD has one charge but SecTec is 10 secs on cd do I still dance or wait for sec tec
steel zinc
and the game is mostly balanced around raid
azure thicket
that makes 0 sense since in any raid you have all buffs
yeah that's def the part colo doesn't logic around either
dungeons are another story and starting from buffs/consumes you supply made more sense at the time
fiery fog
For rotation wise I have this weird segment where SD has one charge but SecTec i...
You hold everything for sectec really
azure thicket
there's a lot of single target fights in dungeons and if you take a priest/hunter/dk/tank of your choice
you only get one party buff
it made sense at the time
fiery fog
In blades with guidon you use the second dance when blades has 8 seconds left (the only exception where you use dance without sectec up)
ivory orchid
so lets say I have both off CD 2 charges of SD after I send it the first time I sit on the second charge of dance?
paper stirrup
danse macabre worth minmaxing now? ie one backstab in dance, 1 shadow strike in aoe?
red flame
that makes 0 sense since in any raid you have all buffs
Bold of you to assume that every raid group ever actually managed to get every single class buff
ivory orchid
Rogue has a raid buff?
red flame
paper stirrup
ty
tribal blade
"raid buff"
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> can we please get a puzzle command
sure
fiery fog
Rogue raidbuff is shroud pre pull
ivory orchid
lol even doing that my group still pull early
tribal blade
lol even doing that my group still pull early
nothing will stop ranged from mistiming their prepull casts
hollow spear
I was actually wondering about the "8 seconds left" part. If we're at 700 haste and have guidon, wouldn't it be 9 seconds to get the full dance inside of blades? Or is that just the optimal number the sim came up with?
red flame
Rogue raidbuff is shroud pre pull<:garf:1320173032743899157> <:OMEGAKEKW:8290511...
The real rogue raidbuff is me having RL do pull 15’s instead of 10’s bc I’m a chronic supercharge forgetter 
fiery fog
I love it when someone pre pulls
You engage because of it
Get slapped by the boss
Everyone says „always the rogue“
ivory orchid
The real rogue raidbuff is me having RL do pull 15’s instead of 10’s bc I’m a ch...
i feel attacked
azure thicket
dslice with full raid buffs im not hitting 130k overall https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4BsxgBbGyCGczZ6EdRcQmb
fiery fog
The real rogue raidbuff is me having RL do pull 15’s instead of 10’s bc I’m a ch...
Its in my blood already to press dance the second i get up
azure thicket
so im gonna turn off stuff so i can gage my results
red flame
Its in my blood already to press dance the second i get up
I aspire for greatness like this
fiery fog
dslice with full raid buffs im not hitting 130k overall https://www.raidbots.com...
M+ has way too many variables to aim for sim dps
Pullsize and other dps dmg to name 2
azure thicket
yeah so like why on raid buffs when you want a baseline to compare your gameplay with
ivory orchid
my only metric is to out kick the rest of team and shit talk them
azure thicket
it's a lil griefy
fiery fog
Because youd need to sim every possible combination of raidbuffs for it to make sense
You always have some
ivory orchid
Is the lords chosen class mage, paladin, or lock
open depot
Anyone got any M Alleria tech for me?
fiery fog
Unless you play heal and tank pal + 3 rogues
vale pine
!box
wicked joltBOT
Puzzle Box (mastery on use, channel) Use:
How? - Use Puzzle box after your initial strike/storm in the opener, before major cooldowns after this. This means using it as if it's a 3 minute trinket.
wanton mantle
dslice with full raid buffs im not hitting 130k overall https://www.raidbots.com...
My d slice sims at 140k and im at or above it typically.
vale pine
Include the gif please
nope
ivory orchid
Can the next time puzzle box come into rotation it not have a cast time??
vale pine
the channel is hasted
fiery fog
Is the lords chosen class mage, paladin, or lock
God gives his toughest battles to his strongest warriors
Therefore rogue is the chosen one
vale pine
so its faster during bloodlust
wanton mantle
Can the next time puzzle box come into rotation it not have a cast time??
Negative
vale pine
but it always has the channel
azure thicket
My d slice sims at 140k and im at or above it typically.
i believe it my overall exceeds the sim most of the time too
i guess i should say i know i'm not hitting 130k all the time
undone ridge
guys
during shadow dance i spam shadowstrike until ancient arts procs?
i never use combo points b4 ancient art come out?
azure thicket
backstab before sending cds to clone max
hazy breach
during shadow dance i spam shadowstrike until ancient arts procs?
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
hazy breach
Otherwise no
ivory orchid
I was looking at a high parse log for Vor is this the normal rotation?
ivory orchid
undone ridge
ty
ivory orchid
i try to enter dance with 6+ combo points so maybe I am confused
hazy breach
No you should start dance with 6+ and sectech
open depot
How many SD do I send in SB? Only SD with sectech?
Currently sending two, but am I stingy?
hazy breach
2 correct, dont hold the second for sectech,send it back to back unless you have guidon
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
ivory orchid
How many SD do I send in SB? Only SD with sectech?
I am looking for that answer as well. I find myself with like a 10 sec gap between SecTec and dance coming up on second charge
lilac stag
How many SD do I send in SB? Only SD with sectech?
Dance. Vanish. Dance and you’ve covered your 20 seconds
open depot
2 correct, dont hold the second for sectech,send it back to back unless you have...
Have guidon and good gear
ivory orchid
If we do not have blades up are we only dancing with sectec up?
open depot
Logs been fine, but just looking to be more 0.1%
ivory orchid
according to the wow community if you arent pinks or higher you suck
thats why i go with grays
open depot
according to the wow community if you arent pinks or higher you suck
I have pinks
ivory orchid
Nice my man
open depot
And whites