damnt that sucks
#subtlety
strange solar
hazy breach
mortal crag
!haste
wicked joltBOT
Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.
exotic steeple
how likely are sub buffs next tuning
night rampart
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897746128207892/1463339376758...
cheers
still gazelle
Hmm I'm having a hard time squeezing that in.. need to buy a socket!
strange solar
gearing seems like pain in the ass ngl
fallow glade
yeah just try it, see if you can comfortably hit 8 gcds in dance
plush olive
And it's all for the low low price of getting gapped in all target counts
placid crown
i just ended saron at 174k dps with hast flask (box trinket), my best was 140k with mastery flask
plush olive
I do like the complexity though
tribal vortex
what do you mean?
placid crown
As it's not suggested anywhere
to balance the unequipped guidon, then being able to put easily the 2nd sectec during a blade
thin sinew
what do you mean?
tribal vortex
Yeah I know that but why droptimiser is not accurate?
I didn't understand the idea
thin sinew
because of that exact reason
if your gear is 700 haste any haste item will give no damage on droptimizer
IF you have less than that amount of haste it will overvalue haste items
there is no middle ground
besides manually doing it
tribal vortex
but this is reality no?
astral axle
"excuse me raid leader, big brain eleem says my droptimizer is inaccurate so this means you have to prio me on all drops going forward"
north schooner
it's more that it's not useful
astral axle
north schooner
not that it's not accurate
tribal vortex
I am thinking of raid droptimiser tbh
astral axle
Droptimizer looks at your current gear and compares each single piece to tell you how big that item would be compared to your current stuff, right?
north schooner
droptimizer changes every piece one by one and tells you the gain
astral axle
It isn't doing cross comparison or combination comparisons
alpine wraith
you can use the custom functions and slam the 650 or 700 thing
i forgot the syntax but maybe eleem knows
fuu posted it the other day
hazy breach
Sure but that also makes it not helpful
tribal vortex
Yeah but let's say I have 700 haste (irrelevant cause all combinations will have the same) 500 mastery and 500 crit and then it will show that if I approach 600 mast 400 crit it's better
This is the idea of it no?
hazy breach
Yeah but it wont show you that a 289 haste item is better than your current 250 non-haste item
When it clearly is
tribal vortex
Why is it?
hazy breach
??
north schooner
because you can move haste around in other pieces
small hearth
anyone now if its an addon too get like a spell overlay on ancient arts procc?
thin sinew
but instead you're stuck with them because it doesn't want to touch your 700 haste
tribal vortex
Ah yeah ok
north schooner
and take advantage of a high haste item
astral axle
it isn't combinatory
tribal vortex
yeah ok I understand but we are doing like max upgrades etc
so these cases are not realistic
but yeah I get the point
thin sinew
Like it showed the alleria neck as only a 136 dps increase. but by getting it i gained 3.5k dps from other slots i could get hero items in. but before i couldn't use due to the wrong stats
tribal vortex
They are
I mean that if an item is higher ilvl you equip it in most cases
So you are just trying to compare different combinations in similar levels
hazy breach
Droptimzier does not do combinations
alpine wraith
yea alleria neck is also 0.2% for me kekw
hazy breach
Thats the entire thing weve been explaining
tribal vortex
Yeah got it, interesting idea
dense fossil
@cosmic prairie I actually posted his logs over here, he is getting 70-80 parses, which isn't terrible, but I wonder how could he improve and move to 90-99s.
sweet meteor
Are the guides generally the same or is one better than the other?
winged vale
if i have 695 haste buffed but 1372 with guidons and the haste breakpoints are 684/1173/1696, is it better to be closer to the 1173 so im still getting extra casts in sb window but less in my other dances (due to dropping below 684) or have almost 200 wasted haste in blades but have guaranteed 2 extra globals in every non blades dance?
sharp ravine
Second choice
thin sinew
but that damage reduction raid buff!!!
hazy breach
i heard liquid just sat rogue from bird
Losing to guarding druid on egg burn phase
thin sinew
arctic pagoda
i heard liquid just sat rogue from bird
Rogue is sat for the dagger boss that immunities have huge value on. 💀
tribal blade
Losing to guarding druid on egg burn phase
lol it's just funny at this point
surely blizz does something now
and not just tuning
tribal blade
Rogue is sat for the dagger boss that immunities have huge value on. 💀
reeEEE
alpine wraith
then also dps
alpine wraith
delete goremaw add darkest dance
tribal blade
delete goremaw add darkest dance
i like this cook
alpine wraith
just all the damages
hazy breach
Its just a boss with 30s burst window
naive zodiac
feint doesnt work for orb soaks psure
tidal solstice
we arent best at CC anymore
not best at dmg
not best at
anything
vagrant sinew
dense mountain
tribal blade
Ok mb i was spreading missinfo
isn't that what we do in here anyways
so we can parse better
thin sinew
omg guy new tech 900 haste!
alpine wraith
better than most
alpine wraith
actually can you get slammed by soak with cheat
naive zodiac
can save so many pulls by using it
alpine wraith
or nvm you get a dot
we will unlock the secret boss after midnight falls
that drops sylvanas dagger again
brrrr
dense mountain
cant get the sylv dagger when your on bench tho 
hazy breach
feint doesnt work for orb soaks psure
I just quickly glanced over some logs and saw the mitigated number at like 55% so i was like yeah feint works
Forgot the mechanic of the fight reduces it by 50%
swift tinsel
plush roost
can save so many pulls by using it
How? You need to be in the roster...
swift tinsel
Rude
short radish
sweet meteor
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
short radish
i heard liquid just sat rogue from bird
i didn't believe this until i opened liquid stream
actually insane
fuck our dog shit class
tribal blade
i didn't believe this until i opened liquid stream
lol yup
my RL is bullying me in our disc atm
tribal blade
saying he's gonna sit me on heroic
short radish
alpine wraith
getting sat on laura inc
short radish
getting sat on laura inc
nah man we're 100% going to be taken on laura
our one niche of pvp lockdown finally comes in handy here
sweet meteor
For shadow blades, is it best to have it macroed into dance or separate so we can hold if needed for burn phase/boss in M+?
alpine wraith
our one niche of pvp lockdown finally comes in handy here
there are 5 shards to cc or more who knows
we are donezo
you can kick one and blind another
gilded thistle
currently progging h crown, how much does our damage matter in p1? Like can I cheese it by just blowing everything on the last dude and spiking to 250k?
alpine wraith
no you talent short blind
it has less cd and it is ranged
in case glaives want to be fucky
cosmic prairie
<@1076713447821148260> I actually posted his logs over here, he is getting 70-80...
if you look at the rank 1 parse vs your friend; the major difference are gear optimization (+6ilvl) (400 mastery point gap, your friend has way too much haste) more specifically BiS raid trinkets vs your friend who has pretty bad raid trinkets. this essentially amounts to him having less shadow dances (that are also significantly weaker due to his stat'ing) which is basically where all rogue damage comes from. that and he didn't pad parse with aoe in the ads enough, 14 casts of black powder vs 41
fossil forge
@oak grotto lmao no emberwing 
left ledge
Can sub still use sword or mace as offhand
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
arctic pagoda
more like subpar
plush roost
More like subtracted from the roster
astral axle
more like sub sandwich
astral axle
left ledge
Class is actually just fucking ass
lilac stag
I think rogue might be ass
outlaw tier 
frosty vector
I have Light company Guidon and i use that first and then using this macro
" /cast Shadow blades
/use Light's Potential
/cast Shadow dance
/cast Secret Technique"
Is there anything negative about this?
lilac stag
Everything
left ledge
Looks ok to me
tribal blade
Do you need loot from heroic?
i like being in for prog haha
lilac stag
Perfect
tribal blade
already got sat a bit this tier but not stressing about it
latent finch
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
left ledge
No he isn’t
He said he’s using guidon first
Use guidon then use macro is how it should be
Just need to wait like 1 sec I think between them
still gazelle
Are these fine stats. I had to mess with gems/enchants
latent finch
The only thing wich could come up is if you want to hold teh pot
frosty vector
Just need to wait like 1 sec I think between them
Yea i'm doing that :)
left ledge
Are these fine stats. I had to mess with gems/enchants
Don’t know but if you have 684-700 haste you’re fine to build crit mastery
still gazelle
Don’t know but if you have 684-700 haste you’re fine to build crit mastery
705
left ledge
Just avoid vers when possible unless ilvl upgrade
still gazelle
Only vers is from offhand/tier helm
light finch
next content athropic poison will be really really good 
left ledge
Yea i'm doing that :)
Yeah that’s fine then
It is recommended to macro your dance with sectec on trickster anyways
short radish
notice how they benched rogue, they all died
if they had atro poison, they wouldnt have died
left ledge
karmic harbor
stuck arrow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
i dont think anyone liked atro
left ledge
Just gave us devo aura
left ledge
Like wtf is that
light finch
3% crit buff-dream
lilac stag
crit dmg buff
left ledge
Yeah people would love that shit
short radish
HAT my beloved
astral axle
atro is a nerf actually it makes wiping slower
astral axle
and there's typically a positive correlation between wipe counts and a kill
light finch
but before we get something, dh gehts BL, 3% crit buff and a grip, and if they press Darkness it will autoemote "lul fuck smokebomb".
lilac stag
basically a tank
left ledge
And is basically required almost all the time
light finch
nah gate is so good
karmic harbor
I played warlock in nerubar, I can't believe I went back to rogue after
left ledge
I can’t believe that either
short radish
bro you're acutally cooked
left ledge
https://i.imgur.com/PgOY1vK.png
No
dull fractal
hey guys, how much crit should be okay to run? deciding on items atm
left ledge
Just use a diff button
dull fractal
im at 24% buffed
left ledge
Don’t do cast sequence
left ledge
Bro you have
2 buttons to press
For 90% of the fight
You can surely spare another 2 buttons for your cds
cosmic prairie
u want to double that :(
light finch
atleast m+ is pretty fun as sub
left ledge
Until someone has hands
And shits on you in aoe and st
And aoe ccs mobs
And is ranged
Then you just sit there wondering why your class exists
hazy breach
Sub is genuinely good in m+, maybe not the absolute best spec
But its definitely good
hazy breach
No
light finch
massblind comes back
left ledge
Yeah unfortunately that button can make or break a key
tribal blade
Sub is genuinely good in m+, maybe not the absolute best spec
"blizz doesn't care about M+ tuning, only raid"
also- "blizz doesn't want to buff sub because it'll be too OP in keys"
left ledge
Why the fuck is it on blind anyways
That shit was so stupid lol
They couldn’t just tune kidney a bit lower?
cyan salmon
atleast m+ is pretty fun as sub
not sure what to do on the single target 13+ key bosses - dps is just abysmal
left ledge
They smited that shit
honest void
idm it being on blind
frail kindle
honest void
just mind it being gone
left ledge
The dps in st is actually okay ish on sub in keys if you have cds going in
But you just get dunked on large aoe and cleave
cyan salmon
yes, but i feel ST is comparatively worse
plush roost
Psure sub ST is curretly one of the best in keys
tribal blade
i haven't been playing with any big boys this season because i'm not really pushing
but sub's ST seems very good
in pure ST i tend to beat most people by quite a bit
if i don't int
upbeat cradle
What if Gloomblade gave us a passive increasing shadowstrike damage by a little along with that active
I really wanna use that talent
cyan salmon
what is this? also aug evoker
plush roost
what is this? also aug evoker
Aug dps doesnt apply on logs (ig outside of prescience crit)
Its ST on garfrost in a 17 pit
cyan salmon
i see
plush roost
My floorpov goat
ashen dagger
do i have to keep snd up with eviscerate or it's useless? (aoe)
tribal blade
do i have to keep snd up with eviscerate or it's useless? (aoe)
you will naturally upkeep it doing the rotation
with coup
hushed roost
half comet
are there any rules about saving coup or when to send it
tidal solstice
whats with mages and hunters just always holding lust until 5 seconds after youve dumped
still gazelle
With guidon and 705 haste is this how long Dance is supposed to look? This is with waiting for Guidon to activate the passive too
No lust*
frosty axle
can they PLEASE buff rogue
tidal solstice
its kinda ridiculous that the 3 ranged pures are outdpsing the only melee pure
median sigil
so if we take unveiled touch which increases our magic damage does that mean demon hunters magic damage increase buff affects us as well? fopr our magic damage?
rough olive
question about secondary stats: I've seen many ppl with huge gaps between crit and haste, some with 200 haste and 900 crit, and others with well balanced stats between crit mastery and haste, does it really make a big difference in playstyle?
hazy breach
so if we take unveiled touch which increases our magic damage does that mean dem...
Yes our magical damage gets increased by DH
hazy breach
question about secondary stats: I've seen many ppl with huge gaps between crit a...
You always want either ~700 haste or ~200 haste, nothing in between
For raid you always want the 700, but sometimes in m+ if you want to prioritize big aoe at the cost of ST you can drop down to 200 and get more mastery instead
Id just recommend the 700 everywhere though
median sigil
i think on my rogue im like just above 700 at like 722 or something like that atm
tribal blade
For raid you always want the 700, but sometimes in m+ if you want to prioritize ...
i think you can only play 200 haste if you run with a tank who pulls around you
i haven't played 200 haste before so i don't know what it's like on ST, but i can imagine it feels like. complete ass
tidal solstice
im doing fine with 680
hazy breach
I think the play is to be at 700 baseline and then get mastery enchants/puzzlebox
tidal solstice
loving the itemization i just know as i climb im gonna get more vers
hazy breach
For big m+
Because otherwise you end up ultra DRing your mastery
Like the secondary stat potion is good for aoe, but if you have puzzlebox then its not nearly as good anymore (in sims that is)
tidal solstice
love the puzzle box gives big dopamine
short radish
接近虚空之鸟 Approaching the Bird of the Void 飞快的乌龟穿过光球。The swift turtle passed through the sphere of light 文氏图中的冰块 Ice Cubes in a Venn Diagram 蛋闪烁着蓝与金的光芒。The egg shimmered with blue and gold light 军队中的四名猎人 No rogues in the army
bleak night
接近虚空之鸟 Approaching the Bird of the Void 飞快的乌龟穿过光球。The swift turtle passed through the sphere of light 文氏图中的冰块 Ice Cubes in a Venn Diagram 蛋闪烁着蓝与金的光芒。The egg shimmered with blue and gold light 军队中的四名猎人 No rogues in the army
arctic pagoda
接近虚空之鸟 Approaching the Bird of the Void 飞快的乌龟穿过光球。The swift turtle passed through the sphere of light 文氏图中的冰块 Ice Cubes in a Venn Diagram 蛋闪烁着蓝与金的光芒。The egg shimmered with blue and gold light 军队中的四名猎人 No rogues in the army
tribal blade
<a:pepcryspin:609483441913987083>
were you pressing BP
tribal blade
you should only ever be pressing strike and evis on the big adds during P1
gilded thistle
yeah I do
tribal blade
ah ok
gilded thistle
I end p1 usually just under 200k
then it slowly falls to around 80-90 by the end
fucking green parse
its so over
im quitting
went from average 95.8 down to 87
fossil forge
Rogue do low damage (盗贼伤害垃圾). same parse as arms war (评分红色，和武器战一样). Bring shame to guild (公会之耻). M+ instant decline (大秘秒拒). I stand in city
radiant swift
what is ur guys expierence on holding small cds or even blades for multiple targets? is it always worth if ill be having more than 1target? for instance intermission on char where it takes a couple of seconds until the fear mobs get to the big one
basicaly waiting 3 sec not hitting to hit 2 mobs
hazy breach
I mean theres no right answer, sometimes you should use it immediately to get it on cd, sometimes hold to pad on the adds
Sometimes the adds doesnt matter
radiant swift
I mean theres no right answer, sometimes you should use it immediately to get it...
what do u base it on ? whats your go to
grave cradle
!up
wicked joltBOT
loud gyro
ty
light hull
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
valid yoke
hey guys mind if I do a lil stat check in with you's? I think my stats are fucked
(I know the haste is low I use a haste pot atm)
but I think I need less crit and more mastery
atomic steeple
do we use shuriken strike even with 2 targets outside of dance?
gilded lodge
Yeah if you had 12.5 more mastery you’d be able to parse oranges instead of blues
gilded thistle
https://gyazo.com/feef3dbdcfad9de1b20a03546016773e
yeah thats way too much crit lol
you way too low on mastery
but also haste
this is what im running rn
light hull
do we use shuriken strike even with 2 targets outside of dance?
Yes, Except in SD windows
atomic steeple
Yes, Except in SD windows
I also sim for some reason it doesnt get me to 18% haste
is this haste too low to raid with?
valid yoke
yeah thats way too much crit lol
gotcha
valid yoke
yeah thats way too much crit lol
mind sending me your armory/gearlist?
gilded thistle
im just wingin it lol
valid yoke
fairs lol
gilded thistle
too early to care about bis for me
valid yoke
also is that without pots and stuff?
valid yoke
fair
tranquil girder
is therre a reason why we dont use acuity of the ren'dorei on both weapons in wowhead ?
I suppose the buff cant overlap and we lose some ?
tranquil girder
ok ! thanks
tribal blade
RIP the rogue dream on beloren <a:FeelsRainMan:749208351728205914>
it's a good thing tbh
the more rogue gets benched
the more visible the issue is
sucks for exile for sure
but can maybe be the catalyst for change
plush roost
They cant ignore an entire class
swift tinsel
^
plush roost
Spec is one thing
swift tinsel
if it were just a spec maybe
ye
but it highlights the whole class' utility kit
and available dmg profiles
and tuning too ig
naive zodiac
plush roost
Marsh said buffs tommorow, and Andrew T would never make a fake take to ragebait
swift tinsel
<a:wideVIBE1:1071727823489871913> <a:wideVIBE2:1071727845480607744> <a:wideVIBE3...
o7 salute the fallen
plush roost
He makes crazy tierlists after all 8)
quick pendant
Honest question, been running sub again in raid and i wanted to know a better way to increase my parse
swift tinsel
pad wherever you can
soft oriole
I guess if we’re being optimistic, we get some buffs post rwf and then maybe utility changes in 12.1
cloud jasper
;
swift tinsel
idk eleem pointed out earlier that there's a history of blizz doing stuff about it
but we'll see ig
getting memed on has been fun though
on multiple big streams
frozen ore
hey yall quick question, I have a weapon crafted and a waist crafted, I can craft a 3rd piece, what should it be?
north garnet
Best to sim but some rule of thumb is choose a piece you think you wont be getting on myth track soon or poor ilvl
frail kindle
sadge
north garnet
Kinda poetic haha
light hull
Best to sim but some rule of thumb is choose a piece you think you wont be getti...
This is why I crafted my Neck
hazy breach
Its not really that cool unfortunately
swift tinsel
the concept of a damage proc
hazy breach
But yes if you can get the mythic neck from alleria then you probably shouldnt craft a neck
gilded lodge
hazy breach
Survival angle
north garnet
Would just the heroic one maxed not be better and a crafted slot in someplace else?
swift tinsel
light hull
But yes if you can get the mythic neck from alleria then you probably shouldnt c...
I am not getting one soon for sure, and unfortunately this neck is bis for a bunch of classes and rogue isnt in good shape rn
hazy breach
Would just the heroic one maxed not be better and a crafted slot in someplace el...
The proc is doing like 0.3-0.4% on ST
north garnet
O. O
hazy breach
So its not nothing, but its not something to write home about
north garnet
Its worse than a ring set whaa
Thats unfortunate. But i guess a neck is a fair craft
spice matrix
Surely L'ura is a rogue boss
hazy breach
Neck from pvp quest is good too, mastery heavy with some haste
spice matrix
hazy breach
But its only hc
lyric patrol
We're just at the pray for buffs stage...doomin at all time high
frail kindle
fallow nimbus
Just have the shit high crit/haste neck on 279 in vault and utter garbage in m+ slots
warm marlin
its not that shit for now
fallow nimbus
Free neck upgrades 
tribal blade
from a bricked 16 MT, can finally see true sub dmg with real pulls
limber folio
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/26aQxkHdywhJTrA3?fight=58&type=damage-done am i just ass on paladins, this is a better dps log i guess
swift tinsel
yall ever experience a bug where if someone recommends you to get invited it just blocks your ability to get invites
short radish
Surely L'ura is a rogue boss
this is the rogue niche of pvp
we can stun lock one of the adds
🙂
warm marlin
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/26aQxkHdywhJTrA3?fight=58&type=damage-done ...
im at 170k at that timepoint
assa is probably better fwiw if you prefer
limber folio
im at 170k at that timepoint
im just dog 
and i dont play assa no
i just dont get what im doing wrong 
are we actually using evis on 2 targets over BP?
short radish
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
remote rapids
nothing changed with Guidon did it like today? was waiting, but didn't seem to let me fit my second sectec
warm marlin
are we actually using evis on 2 targets over BP?
no
warm marlin
masterymaxx storm on 3 targets try your best to do any remote damage
i am still last btw by a lot
hazy breach
Youre doing no damage anyway so might aswell play sub over assa and be slightly more tanky so you dont drop your raid buff
warm marlin
Youre doing no damage anyway so might aswell play sub over assa and be slightly ...
i am also top damage taken
this is not a good rogue fight
hazy breach
this is not a good rogue fight
Understatement
remote rapids
yeah, weird can't get two sectecs in the opener tonight, huh
hazy breach
Well youre using blades like 1.5s before casting any abilities
You could use blades close to your sectech+dance and youd fit it in no problem
chrome palm
alleria might be the worst melee fight ive ever done
holy shit
im about to have 70% uptime
puddle drop in blades gg
obelisk in dance gg
warm marlin
its time for shuriken toss rogue
plush roost
alleria might be the worst melee fight ive ever done
Hows the no dk strat ive heard whispers of
swift tinsel
lol on the alt run
chrome palm
Hows the no dk strat ive heard whispers of
2 dks :-)
you get any mechanic and you lose infinite damage
swift tinsel
they have their vaunted internal testing team
limber folio
lol on the alt run
which alt run tho 
swift tinsel
which alt run tho <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
devourer
limber folio
we unironically dopped 2 mythic trinkets our first kill 
remote rapids
still using Guidon at 8s left in blades?
small vortex
are yall holding blades for saladbar amps or just sending when up
3rd and 4th blades seem to come up quite a bit before the amp
plush roost
you get any mechanic and you lose infinite damage
Bleed max time bud
small vortex
its like 25% or something but idk if i get an extra blades
dark sun
stupid question. Do you cast shadow blades first and then shadow dance? Or shadow dance, shadow blades?
hazy breach
Doesn't matter
limber folio
it shouldnt matter
hazy breach
As long as both are cast before sectech
But ideally you should have dance+sectech macroed
dark sun
I have dance + secteq macroed. Ty!
lilac stag
chat we did it.
arctic abyss
any thing coming for rogues next patches?
strong crypt
whats the command for the sim spreadsheet again?
modest summit
in 3 target cleave wouldnt shadowstrike be better than shuriken storm. or is there something im missing
limber folio
whats the command for the sim spreadsheet again?
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
and i died to rot
As it the way of the rogue
warm marlin
well i died
strange chasm
is leech or avoidance better for enchants
warm marlin
What dam did u end on
130.6
chrome palm
we just killed
you killed alleria??
chrome palm
OH
lucid jackal
is leech or avoidance better for enchants
I like leech more
Cuz feint is so good
at avoidance based damage taken
paper helm
no rogue on beloren mythic kill?
who
lilac stag
why would you take a rogue to a dps check fight?
spare quiver
30 sec burst maybe
lilac stag
if only we had burst
bleak night
i use speed enchants
hell yeah brother
lucid jackal
Rogue is bad so why would it be played lole
lilac stag
new tweet when?
chrome palm
30 sec burst maybe
much lower than what other classes can do
fair phoenix
why would you take a rogue to a dps check fight?
well, this is a fact
crystal atlas
Is there a log review channel?
fair phoenix
they was taking only cause the dmg reduction, but they replaced
lilac stag
Is there a log review channel?
use !log
crystal atlas
!log
cosmic prairie
much lower than what other classes can do
aside from mm hunter what class has more burst than us
that isnt basically afk after their 1.5min-2min cd
lucid jackal
new tweet when?
alreayd did my tweet
short radish
aside from mm hunter what class has more burst than us
our burst isnt that good anymore
cosmic prairie
u think those all beat sub burst + aren't under sub in aoe outside of their big cd burst ?
cosmic prairie
ya our box/sb/double+triple dance window is crazy
udk is literally afk after their cd
plush roost
Yes and the only thing that matters on beloran is egg damage
chrome palm
Udk is literally all burst and be a tank otherwise
?
does udk have more burst than sub if it only has burst?
well yes
that used to be sub then blizz decided sub cant have arms or legs
cosmic prairie
i mean i asked the full question and u just named ev dps for their cd and not the rest of the question
i dont think most of those beat sub full picture
short radish
i dont think most of those beat sub full picture
why not?
cosmic prairie
ww , frost MAYBE
lucid jackal
Heres what U gotta keep in mind
This is a 1-2 melee tier
The only fight u want 3 melee on is alleria, and 2 of those are DKs, because they have grip
ranged DPS are overtuned beyond fuck
So the question in raid rn is "HOw little melee can we run, and can we add another hunter, mage, evoker, devourer"
cosmic prairie
idk we talk down our damage profile a lot but in ev key i see one of the top rogues do they are either top or slivers behind
plush roost
Keys are not raid
plush roost
Maybe i missed the memo but the context was 30 second burst on beloran egg so its a raid centric comparison between classes in which many do more than sub atp
lilac stag
THIS HAS BEEN AN EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER TODAY
plush roost
THIS HAS BEEN AN EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER TODAY
warm marlin
Yes and the only thing that matters on beloran is egg damage
:/ how sad it is
chrome palm
sub is like average burst
or something
dance burst is kinda whatever when its not flexible
lilac stag
and blades is pants
frail kindle
and we have no low target cleave anymore
imagine if we just fixed all of these issues and went back to tww s3 :3
leaden prairie
:/ how sad it is
skill issue imo
lilac stag
and atrophic is shit
short radish
sub is ironically getting closer and closer to 9.1 damage profile
or w/e abberus is
lilac stag
feels more like post zul bfa 
lilac stag
BBN bring back nimble
short radish
feels more like post zul bfa <:kekw:610125925413289985>
paying for our sins on... intermissions?
meanwhile Mm rewarded
craggy quest
14 MT looking good dk was struggling though
iron imp
has any gigachad started up one of those "does atrophic work on this boss" spreadsheets for this season yet?
fair stump
Does droptimizer try to reach the 650-700 haste cap?
jagged hamlet
has any gigachad started up one of those "does atrophic work on this boss" sprea...
check pings in general
i think
lusty acorn
Aura buff incoming
jagged hamlet
jk its just feint/cloak/evasion
iron imp
yeah that one is also great, but not quite the info im looking for
steel horizon
i hate this game
leaden prairie
i hate this game
if you are the one loggign it shoudlnt happen
this thing usuallyt happen when you are too far from the guy logging
or i assume on this boss when you are under
it prolly bugs out a bit
steel horizon
yea most likely i was under. gonna have to start logging myself lol
ayo just realized that someone that was with me in the downstairs phase logged it too. im saved
steel wyvern
is light potential really better than 2k mast
echo dirge
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
quaint lodge
Didnt know this but the wowanalyzer for sub rogue is actually pretty good these days
molten citrus
is light potential really better than 2k mast
the 1700 pot that also makes you lose 200 stat?
short radish
it doesnt make you go below cap though
molten citrus
well wouldn't it lower vers
balmy jackal
got benched from mythic prog 
time to go stand in city like npc
molten citrus
idr yalls stats in pve rn exactly
tribal blade
ok finally getting there
short radish
theres the p*sher
molten citrus
vers is our lowest stat
ya so what did u mean by it doesn't make you go below cap
short radish
ya so what did u mean by it doesn't make you go below cap
sorry
doesnt make you go below 0
steel wyvern
the 1700 pot that also makes you lose 200 stat?
yes
wouldthat not be better than agi
molten citrus
u gotta be a man and use the rampant abandon dekai
tribal blade
Whenever a shaman gives me that mastery buff I turn into a god
i literally only invited that enhance to give me skyfury
molten citrus
but idk im pretty sure u can sim that
fair stump
Does droptimizer try to reach the 650-700 haste cap?
bump
outer orchid
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
quaint lodge
frail vortex
Small optimization question. As trickster I want to enter dance/st with 6+ combo points. I see the tip to pool to 60 for building outside of dance, but if I have dance/st coming up soon and my alternatives are to cap energy, backstab at max combo points or to evic and try to rebuild delaying dance, what is the least bad option? 😅
mossy spruce
yo whats good beasts, just made an alt rogue
why? lol
hot shell
LOL idk rogues just have aura man
frail vortex
Tradeskill tools so you can farm mats for the people on the raid team.
hot shell
always liked the class
mossy spruce
btw echo also benched their rogue, we're back to being joever
dire ravine
Small optimization question. As trickster I want to enter dance/st with 6+ combo...
I backstab @ max combo points if i know i wont be able to build it back up in time for my next dance. But that could be wrong 😛
frail vortex
Yeah I do that or cap depending on the time, just feels bad as an old rogue to ever go over on combo points or energy.
hot shell
word tyty
frail vortex
But I guess outside of dance is so low value and energy isn't a concern inside dance it's splitting hairs. Prio is not delaying dance I'm guessing
quaint lodge
Prio is not delaying dance
You're just hitting backstab at max cp
Its kinda cringe but w/e
Last season you used to hit backstab 10x in a row, the good ole days...
narrow shadow
quaint lodge
Also true
My character must be cursed
I was willing to race change to panda, but wdym gnome.
spare totem
How does this happen 100 to 0 so quickly
vale pine
My character must be cursed
gnomed^^
quaint lodge
gnomed^^
i realized its cuz im using a flask in my normal sims for haste and i dont know how to input it into the race sim
how do i sim this fuu
vale pine
give me a sec
quaint lodge
How does this happen 100 to 0 so quickly
No defensive on a 14 to the energy explosion, it'll cast it directly on you, so you'll know when its gonna happen
quaint lodge
No defensive on a 14 to the energy explosion, it'll cast it directly on you, so ...
Also wasn't topped, you would've lived if you were topped / presesd a defensive
quaint lodge
give me a sec
ty fuu
vale pine
you can copy your profile, including Flask, used like this from a quick sim.
Then just paste the race sim text file below.
quaint lodge
I wanna go for a rank 1 parse this season
Had it on the agenda but wanna actually push it this season
im a panda
vale pine
quaint lodge
cloud barn
are we supposed to cast dance before blades? meaning opener w guidon should be: shadow strike > trinket + pot > dance + blades > sec tec
vale pine
you are supposed to cast the trinket before dance
ideally 1 sec
so you are 100% sure you get the haste
cloud barn
that part i get, but what about shadow blades, are we casting dance first into blades?
vale pine
you can cast it together with blades
cloud barn
so the only thing not macrod to opener would be guidon to benefit from the haste
vale pine
yes
cloud barn
ty ty
slow roost
if you end up with st coming off cd during blades and you don't have dance up is it worth sending?
quaint lodge
if you end up with st coming off cd during blades and you don't have dance up is...
Is this a situation in which you've messed up
slow roost
agreed
quaint lodge
LOL Im asking
slow roost
oh thought it was a statement lol
quaint lodge
But yeah it should only really happen if you've messed up, at that point you may as well send it just to keep timers on the same page but you'd wanna realign them as soon as possible
lyric bloom
Morning, I saw some m+ players using the Finality talent instead of Veiltouched for magic damage. Is it dungeon-specific or is there any bigger advantage to Finality over the other one?
vale pine
exile the goat
steep raven
Morning, I saw some m+ players using the Finality talent instead of Veiltouched ...
Huh? isn't default M+ build without veiltouched and has 1 point into finality?
frail crystal
Some high keys rogue are prioritizing crit over haste, so what should we prio?
plush roost
exile the goat
Ignore half the raid was dead
lyric bloom
Huh? isn't default M+ build without veiltouched and has 1 point into finality?
well I checked now on wowhead and it is not
& when I look at other m+ players it varies a bit
steep raven
well I checked now on wowhead and it is not
That means, the rogues you see use old build. I myself untalented First dance for veitouched
vale pine
Ignore half the raid was dead
hey
steep raven
so you play veiltouched + finality 1/2?
This is what I use, but it's just because I personally don't want to bother with First Dance and the difference in number is nothing
frank wolf
Do you guys send a sectec in the second dance in blades or wait for blades to end to send one with dance again? Does tier set impact the decision?
azure thicket
yeah i think the time between pulls in the 15-17 bracket probably hurts tfd a whole lot
steep raven
Do you guys send a sectec in the second dance in blades or wait for blades to en...
2nd sectec inside 2nd dance within blades and yes
vale pine
This is what I use, but it's just because I personally don't want to bother with...
i actually plaed without the first dance yesterday
and i was missing it
XD
azure thicket
same
lyric bloom
This is what I use, but it's just because I personally don't want to bother with...
okay, thanks! I will try it and see how it feels
azure thicket
it's nice having the extra time in dance for damage and cc reasons tbh
steep raven
i actually plaed without the first dance yesterday
Really? Some tanks just run forever and it's nice to not think about FD
steep raven
Ofc it's nice when you have FD on dances without blades, feels better
But in 10-13 it's kinda whatever anyways
lyric bloom
it's been ages since I played sub, always assa main and I feel like now I can run
vale pine
like terrace or nexus
azure thicket
i have to start resi 13s most of the time tanks are gonna slowly gather packs rather than trusting cc chains
steep raven
but ye, if you can literally not use tfd for the majority of the key
I'm using guidon in M+ (don't have box), and it feels the same as in raid and I'm kinda used to the way dances roll within blades
steep raven
Also just did a dungeon slice sim:
1 is no tfd
2 is tfd + veitouched
3 is tfd + finality
But idk how dungeonslice works with tfd
What's the imput or whatnot
vale pine
I'm using guidon in M+ (don't have box), and it feels the same as in raid and I'...
i don't use guidon in m+
azure thicket
600k on the silvermoon dummies with puzzle, 200k with guidon no alnseer
steep raven
i don't use guidon in m+
btw is this a valid opener on boss with lust? It feels SO nice to start 2nd dance with fan
sharp ravine
btw is this a valid opener on boss with lust? It feels SO nice to start 2nd danc...
If your first eviscerate have AA then yes, else one more ss after sectec
steep raven
If your first eviscerate have AA then yes, else one more ss after sectec
Yeah, I AA optimized every supercharged CP. The question was more about Shuriken Storm
golden thunder
can you set somewhere in raidbots that you want to have at least 700 haste?
sharp ravine
can you set somewhere in raidbots that you want to have at least 700 haste?
No, you can take oil off and offset it by 32 haste but that's all
golden thunder
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
golden thunder
do we need all this requirments fullfilled or just one?
steep raven
I've "found out" that if you evis all the CP away after first dance in CDs and open next dance with fan you naturally line up the 8s blades timer for 2nd dance and will supercharge first evis into supercharge 2nd sectec "naturally" (under lust)
It feels nice to do
golden thunder
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
sharp ravine
do we need all this requirments fullfilled or just one?
All
vale pine
btw is this a valid opener on boss with lust? It feels SO nice to start 2nd danc...
not sure if 2x fan of knives is good
steep raven
not sure if 2x fan of knives is good
It's only 1 fan
Logs show 2 for some reason
Look at timers
vale pine
oh
rose parrot
How many seconds are you supposed to have with the first dance in the opener with guidon? Is it around 8 secs?
steep raven
2nd dance is SD+Fan>Evis>Sectec 3 globals
steep raven
But that's only with lust
Next blades you don't get to supercharge Sectec if you do this
Which is ok, according to faq
hollow spear
You can do storm strike evis strike sectec to get it on non lust blades
steep raven
Everytime I press SD+Fan on 0 CP it procs apex, since I don't spend any sth stacks before that, so you go from 0cp to full cp+apex every time
Inside blades*
Recommend trying it, the blades window feels very smooth and repeatable every time
jovial ginkgo
shadow snow
is it possible i could macro guidon with ss ?
steep raven
is it possible i could macro guidon with ss ?
No? Unless you make a 2nd SS macro for it specifically
First one used on SS every other one just uses trinket, since you're out of any form of stealth
shadow snow
yeah but we have macro that combines ss and stab
steep raven
Can't do that one
shadow snow
in that macro maybe i could add guidon
steep raven
You will use it when you don't want to
tribal blade
@short radish doing full send no think
tribal blade
so much
shadow snow
since the issue is 0.1 secs delay for the trinket
steep raven
since the issue is 0.1 secs delay for the trinket
You better wait for global before pressing SD
tribal blade
this is kinda fake though because it's a 10 with the affix
steep raven
I've had no dance timer increase after 0.8s delay
tribal blade
but not sitting on anything is the move for sub now
steep raven
So now I try to wait a global
still depot
wicked joltBOT
shadow snow
You better wait for global before pressing SD
so i have to wait like 1sec to start rotation?
this is bs
Also i can see the deepening shadows in the blizz cd manager, its not in the tracked buffs...
tribal blade
what key was this?
10 pit
steep raven
You gave me a good idea with SS.
Instead of manually pressing trinket, macroed it to SS/backstab to introduce a gcd to it, so i'll never miss the timer increase
vale pine
nice
tribal blade
You gave me a good idea with SS.
Instead of manually pressing trinket, macroed i...
holy shit
that's actually a good idea
shadow snow
You gave me a good idea with SS.
Instead of manually pressing trinket, macroed i...
yeah thats what i thought!
tribal blade
but why macro to strike too
shadow snow
i would actually do it before the cast of backstab but yeah that works too
tribal blade
curious
steep raven
but why macro to strike too
On pull
another button for this though, don't replace base ss/backstab macro
shadow snow
another button for this though, don't replace base ss/backstab macro
why though?
cosmic prairie
You gave me a good idea with SS.
Instead of manually pressing trinket, macroed i...
so what are u gunna do if there is downtime before u have to hit blades
steep raven
so what are u gunna do if there is downtime before u have to hit blades
I don't press it?
cosmic prairie
ur not gunna press ur generator..
steep raven
cosmic prairie
now it all doesnt make sense 😭 nvm
steep raven
Kinda makes sense in my brain, I hate manual wait for the trinket
It's worse than box
At least with box you forced to wait, here "you have to feel it"
cosmic prairie
i kinda get it like if ur body physically was pressing 1 button per global, hitting that would still do damage when u use trinket
instead of having a random dead global of u activating a trinket
plain cradle
idk i just press an extra ss/bs before trink lands instead of "waiting" for it
cosmic prairie
have u next considered the triple blind macro
just incase u hit the wrong mousebutton
steep raven
https://i.imgur.com/5oZ9o0H.png
Nah, I'm content with Blind and focus blind
torn tide
https://i.imgur.com/5oZ9o0H.png
what in the world
steep raven
Never got used to arena1,2,3 macros
cosmic prairie
what in the world
i have more keybinds than i have uses so i just fill them in w random stuff
so that if im ever mashing in a crazy moment it hits something that might be useful
like shadowstep or blind
stoic flare
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
shadow snow
is there a way to track deepening shadows current bonus ?
vale pine
tooltip of the spell
vale pine
nicu
shadow snow
tooltip of the spell
yeah but that is not visible on the ui, only if i hover over the spell
keen dome
surely the devs read the forums
I wish they didn't have the dumb divide.
I have thoughts
tribal blade
I wish they didn't have the dumb divide.
yeah it's annoying
sucks because a lot of the big boy sub players are EU
keen dome
It's funny because we can have people on our bnet friends list from both regions and talk to them regardless. But forums? NOPE. No englishmen allowed, it's illegal.
glacial eagle
<@194804407706189824> my post is going hard
that the "unacceptable" post?
tribal blade
that the "unacceptable" post?
it is yeah
glacial eagle
It's funny because we can have people on our bnet friends list from both regions...
the funnier thing is, I can still upvote US posts from my EU acc
keen dome
Yeah, just can't post
tribal blade
Yeah, just can't post
i've done it for armin and others in the past
just send me a copy of your thoughts 😉
keen dome
Well I've posted most of them but I feel like it wouldn't help since we want volume and not just thoughts
glacial eagle
yeah that looks like high engagement even for US forums
might soon cross the 100 likes threshold
tribal blade
i think every little bit helps
the higher the view count/number of posts gets
the more attention
keen dome
I expect us to get something once the RWF is over. maybe even before. Could be something today.
But like, who knows.
glacial eagle
yeah could be today
keen dome
Communicate, Blizz. A single response of "We are aware of the concerns. We've heard them and are considering how to improve Rogue as a whole." would go hard.
glacial eagle
surely RWF will be over by tues/wed tho
tribal blade
lura looks fucking insane
we'll see
the most weakaura boss of all time when they removed WAs lol
keen dome
I need to go prog heroic march with pugs but I legit do not have a good solution for Midnight Falls P1 mechanic and I'm struggling to figure a pug friendly one out
I think it's going to be a "You have to understand the mechanic" angle and kicking people who don't
vale pine
It's funny because we can have people on our bnet friends list from both regions...
true
tribal blade
I think it's going to be a "You have to understand the mechanic" angle and kicki...
it will be yes
glacial eagle
the most weakaura boss of all time when they removed WAs lol
maybe it's their way of saying "we removed WAs but now we can make WA bosses and not have them be invalidated by WAs lmao, sucks to be you"
tribal blade
maybe it's their way of saying "we removed WAs but now we can make WA bosses and...
lol maybe
keen dome
It's not a hard mechanic on N/H, it's just "pay attention, figure out where to stand" but like. Fuck me people are bad at that.
It's Turbo Ansurek
keen dome
Well they removed WA's but as we see on the Liquid stream
tribal blade
lol yeah
tribal blade
i haven't looked into heroic changes yet
keen dome
There's enough time to figure it out, etc. It's just a mechanic that requires everybody to understand the principle
keen dome
i haven't looked into heroic changes yet
5 runes instead of 3
tribal blade
we're progging it in a few days
keen dome
But I believe the beam isn't random (?) until Mythic so it's simply the same solve as normal with 2 additional runes
tribal blade
5 runes instead of 3
lol amazing
that's gonna blow
beam always spins clockwise in normal/h is it?
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
cool
vale pine
It's not a hard mechanic on N/H, it's just "pay attention, figure out where to s...
we did start the raid on normal in the new raid this week
keen dome
My solve for normal pugs is typing the inverted order in a RW so if it's T O X I would RW X O T. And T is always on the right, O middle, X left.
tribal blade
wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed runes on heroic and mythic to be 4 instead of 5
vale pine
and i was stunned how many people did fuck up the color game
meanwhile, me with 6 fps had no problem
keen dome
oh god yeah
glacial eagle
we're still progging heroic so w/e, wonder if we'll do March on Sunday tho
vale pine
(6 fps because 30 man raids fuck my performance)
keen dome
I was helping people kill it yesterday and we iped 10+ times on baloren 'cos people couldn't do the most mechanically simple boss inr ecent history
glacial eagle
is belo easy?
keen dome
On normal? insanely
keen dome
And on heroic it's just tuned hard, mechanically it is not hard.
It is a very very very simple boss
glacial eagle
then again I've heard my boomie friend cuss out the randos who couldn't do the "kill two mobs at the same time with a grace period of like 10 sec"
so yeah I guess
vale pine
you can burn the egg in the first intermission on normal
keen dome
Yeah
keen dome
I wonder if a solve for Midnight in pugs is doing numbers.
vale pine
XD
keen dome
1 is always the most right most person, 2 is next to them, 3 is middle, 4 is second left most and 5 is the most left-most
So you'd RW 1T 2O 3V 4D 5X
And T goes to the far right, etc.
Or you do it the other way around where 5 is the right-most person etc so you'd RW 5T 4O etc
'Cos the major issue is as notes come out you want it inverted, since it rotates clockwise
Probably too complicated and just going "First symbol right, then move left" or something
steel zinc
(6 fps because 30 man raids fuck my performance)
99% an addon issue on that fight. Beloron has some issues with certain add-ons