Yeah maybe but at this point in the tier
#subtlety
fiery fog
depends on how much ilvl and possibly even stats
shrewd lantern
Though if i cared enough about keys i wouldnt be playing rogue
and play something actually good
fiery fog
like you wouldnt equip a high vers neck regardless
final hound
i've heard others do Patchwerk with 5boss targets for M+ instead of Slice
shrewd lantern
well jewelry is an outlier
final hound
but idk..so i ask
alpine wraith
m+ might have the tech of running only 200 haste
sleek socket
guys for mythic, finality or weaponmaster?
fiery fog
it isnt
frosty bramble
i've heard others do Patchwerk with 5boss targets for M+ instead of Slice
Hunters do something different, for us it really doesn’t matter. Especially this season rework where most damage your doing has a two button rotation
fiery fog
in pugs youd want haste to be somewhat near st values (~600 maybe) id say from feelcrafting
since pugs usually dont pull big enough
sleek socket
do u guys play with the first dance on m+?
frosty bramble
Yeah all depends on what the tank does, either gungho or 3 mob packs lol
fiery fog
all i want is a focus indicator like in fellowship where you can see who has that target in focus and if their kick is ready and how much cd it has
would make some keys so much easier
shrewd lantern
Well we had that with WAs
gray wedge
all i want is a focus indicator like in fellowship where you can see who has tha...
That might be the best small innovation I saw in fellowship
I like how the last boss in MS is the same as that skeleton boss in harbor too
fiery fog
legit 10/10 feature
frosty bramble
There’s an add on for kicks.
For 12s and under though, I just cheap shot, blind, kick and kidney any important mob because I don’t trust anyone to do things correctly
fiery fog
only thing he doesnt revive xd
fellowship is actually such a good game if you are playing in a group
but big problems with solo playing
gray wedge
It's just M+ simulator, even down to needing a full group
hazy breach
That might be the best small innovation I saw in fellowship
The guy who pulled generating a decent chunk of threat is another
swift tinsel
but seeing group kicks would be nice
gray wedge
The guy who pulled generating a decent chunk of threat is another
Make face pulling matter in 2026
hazy breach
So a tank can gather things while on mount without losing aggro because 1 rejuv tick pulled aggro
gray wedge
So a tank can gather things while on mount without losing aggro because 1 rejuv ...
Idk if my tank last night was just an opp, but I started to cast my puzzle box after the bubble popped in a seat last night and got agro from that first pack lol
I could have sworn he ran through them
fiery fog
HE IS OPENING A BOX, DESTROY HIM
swift tinsel
pray for your guardian druids on pull
hazy breach
well it doesnt matter if he ran through them
swift tinsel
sit on hands for 5 sec
gray wedge
HE IS OPENING A BOX, DESTROY HIM
Literally
fiery fog
gray wedge
He hasnt done any threat
I didn't think opening the box generated threat, but I learned then lol. At least I didn't miss lust.
swift tinsel
having burst prepped as ddh and having to wait for the bear to get aggro 
hazy breach
I didn't think opening the box generated threat, but I learned then lol. At leas...
"Atleast i didnt miss lust" 
swift tinsel
slow lust is my new 13th reason
gray wedge
opener ruined, in shambles even, but at least I go fast
hazy breach
Box is worth like 5x the value of lust
swift tinsel
I stg
hazy breach
Ah
gray wedge
They literally just walked over and punched me in the face
lime wigeon
Funnily enough, unless it's changed in the last decade. Generating any resource gives a small amount of threat. Including energy
hazy breach
But yeah lust is actually worse this expac than the last one 
gray wedge
Funnily enough, unless it's changed in the last decade. Generating any resource ...
I don't know if it's 100% true yet, but for some reason they (fixed)broke getting tricks on the tank by hitting a critter too
ionic wave
Is Crucible of Erratic energies simming really well for yall? I've got Heart, Prism, and Vestige at the same ilvl or slightly above.
hazy breach
I mean lust gets you a second secret technique and more auto attack damage
swift tinsel
is the cp waste that bad compared to the attack speed gain
hazy breach
In tww you atleast got more combo points and rupture damage
Cant spend sht stacks fast enough now with the shadowcraft change
hazy breach
Is Crucible of Erratic energies simming really well for yall? I've got Heart, Pr...
Yes its better than practically everything on hero besides gaze and plume
lime wigeon
Was a point in DF where in AoE you literally only got autoattack damage from BL in AoE
And AA was very poor
alpine wraith
yes it is very good
tepid trellis
well you would always get a tiny bit of rupture dmg
swift tinsel
haste breakpoints and sectech cdr friction just bc they wanted to force us to want haste
tepid trellis
but in SL you only got Auto attack dmg on mass AoE
swift tinsel
and massive sht overcapping
tepid trellis
since we did not rupture on AoE in SL
swift tinsel
lime wigeon
Maybe was SL yeah Stealthi. Expansions bleed together :p
swift tinsel
13.1.5 they finally fix it trust
versed swift
Any tips for a fellow stabber on dragons boss? We start prog tonight
hazy breach
Based on previous tiers when a class was not in for most rwf bosses blizzard went in and quite heavy handedly forced them in with a stronger raid buff
So i would not be surprised if that happened to us now
swift tinsel
Oh man I can't wait to see what gets cooked up for that bandaid
lime wigeon
Numbing goes from -18% autoattack damage to -20
We used to have automatic application of expose armor as a raid buff at some point right
swift tinsel
iirc
hazy breach
Shaman wasnt in > Skyfury
DK wasnt in > Now you need grips on every single endboss
Hunter wasnt in > Hunters mark is now perma 3% instead of only 5% above 80%
warm marlin
rogue wasnt in > no changes
swift tinsel
if that happens I will laugh so hard it might actually kill me
spice matrix
Exile was about to cry after getting sat 🙁
swift tinsel
I don't blame him
hushed roost
yeah right
tepid trellis
I mean lust gets you a second secret technique and more auto attack damage
time for blizzard to add a talent that converts haste % into bonus mastery or crit dmg bonus
wheat edge
Improved Expose Armor returning in 12.0.5 but tracking the buff in cdm and nameplates will be broken have fun!!
swift tinsel
this raid sucks for rwf rogue
tepid trellis
so we actually get something from lust
hazy breach
time for blizzard to add a talent that converts haste % into bonus mastery or cr...
Realz explicitly said thats lazy and they dont want to do that when asked about it back in the day
So im not expecting anything
swift tinsel
I mean we are the ball of bandaids spec so lazy would fit
spice matrix
When do we shut down the discord 
swift tinsel
we don't
hushed roost
protest in silvermoon
spice matrix
Gg
keen dome
We post more
swift tinsel
shutting down a discord does nothing
hushed roost
we're gonna storm the royal exchange
swift tinsel
ret delusion makes them think it did
keen dome
We will rogue tank spec and poison toggle into existance
swift tinsel
it literally didn't do anything but make everyone think they were stupid
spice matrix
We are rogues… everyone already thinks we are stupid
lilac stag
We will rogue tank spec and poison toggle into existance
just stop with the tank
They can’t get 3 dps specs right. We don’t need another fuck up
iron imp
They think we are stupid because we are, otherwise we wouldn't still be playing rogue
swift tinsel
we're not stupid, we're insane
doing the same thing over again expecting different results
iron imp
Its alright, next boss we will be needed for sure. Boss in invulnerable except for 8 second windows every 20 seconds or so
swift tinsel
meanwhile rets conflating correlation with causation is literal stupidity
stuck arrow
this raid sucks for rwf rogue
What you mean - liquid used a rogue on 20 pulls. 👀
keen dome
meanwhile rets conflating correlation with causation is literal stupidity
A lot of people have this problem though
swift tinsel
A lot of people have this problem though
too many
hazy breach
What you mean - liquid used a rogue on 20 pulls. 👀
Having cloak on that boss is really strong
But unfortunately you need to be able to outburst the guardian druid on the egg phase
swift tinsel
bleak night
hushed roost
wish they brought back flagellation so i can use it on myself irl
lilac stag
But unfortunately you need to be able to outburst the guardian druid on the egg ...
wdym we are the burst spec
iron imp
Waiting for another 3% Tuesday
This one will do it trust
swift tinsel
hey siri play flatline by periphery
karmic harbor
im going to double my 3% and give it to the next guy
lilac stag
@warm marlin this aged well
hushed roost
im going to double my 3% and give it to the next guy
its gonna go to assa 😂
warm marlin
<@135762418251988992> this aged well
yep
fair stump
Do you guys have alts? If so, which other class could play similar to sub rogue?
finite hedge
lol they swapped him out? gg
warm marlin
it is once again, over
keen dome
It's not over until the chandalier dies
lyric patrol
Hopium gone
tepid trellis
<@135762418251988992> this aged well
i dm'd him already to do a new tweet
karmic harbor
my hope and optimism is gone
stuck arrow
Do you guys have alts? If so, which other class could play similar to sub rogue?
I've got like 5 rogues at various levels.
Used to need to reroll to change guilds. 😂
swift tinsel
i dm'd him already to do a new tweet
make him file an official retraction and apology video
lilac stag
it is once again, over
I’m not sure what’s funnier. Guys vault and the state of rogue, or just the state or rwf memeing on exile and perfecto
keen dome
Midnight Falls is gonna be the 16 rogue boss.
finite hedge
what did they swap him for? ww?
hushed roost
goop
tepid trellis
3rd aug
swift tinsel
inb4 Guy's "I pledge to do better" video
lilac stag
another Aug
finite hedge
lol 3 aug wtf
hushed roost
aug hunter merchants
swift tinsel
5th mm hunter
hazy breach
Somebody that can outburst the guardian druid
lilac stag
Hunter doing all that dmg while not doing any dps during turtle
stuck arrow
It's all G - Exile will be in for Lura for sure. He already has like 1000 pulls on memory game.
hushed roost
im cool with aug cranking but how did we lose our burst after last tier 🤦♂️
ive seen enough ill flag aand rupture again
swift tinsel
bc it was too complicated to do apparently
keen dome
They gave it to guardian druid
lyric patrol
Butchered cleave damage while every fight is cleave
lilac stag
and last tier we had boss amps that mattered
lyric patrol
Forgot that one
stuck arrow
Then multiple straight aura nerfs in ptr.
karmic harbor
im cool with aug cranking but how did we lose our burst after last tier 🤦♂️
sub rogue bursty dmg profile is bad because...
swift tinsel
sub rogue bursty dmg profile is bad because...
because its not that bursty anymore
golden thunder
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
rare sedge
is puzzlebox in m+ better for subrogue even though we just use it half as often? or did them chinese ppl just not get guidon yet
strange chasm
aint no way the gdruid is outbursting us
karmic harbor
because its not that bursty anymore
i mean in alpha people were defending making the class less bursty 🥴
frosty bramble
sub rogue bursty dmg profile is bad because...
There’s no other profile otherwise lol
stuck arrow
TBH if you zoom out after haste - our damage profile pretty close to OL. 😂
Just less unforgiving of down time.
karmic harbor
There’s no other profile otherwise lol
yeah, our class sucks ass
golden thunder
for aa optimization we want all those check marks or jsut one is ok ?
hazy breach
All
lofty cypress
Anyone mind looking through a log and seeing what i'm fucking up? a 12 parse is pretty fucking sad.
frosty bramble
Rogue stocks down for sure
stuck arrow
Anyone mind looking through a log and seeing what i'm fucking up? a 12 parse is ...
Post it.
lofty cypress
swift tinsel
burst too often and you just aren't bursting anymore
warm marlin
I’m not sure what’s funnier. Guys vault and the state of rogue, or just the stat...
guys vault for sure
swift tinsel
30 sec cd, 6 sec duration
frosty bramble
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/da6Vf4NmpWcAFkJH?fight=17&type=damage-done&...
Too much crit not enough haste mast, mast should be high.
Trinkets and gearing needs some work.
Your opener seems ok but then you don’t use dance with sectec on second, and then seems like the trend continues throughout the fight.
You should be able to get two danced sectecs in blades, not dancing on a sectec is going to make it hit like a noodle
I’d read the wowhead rotation and get that memorized or close to.
lofty cypress
aite, I think it was just that first one i fucked up, the rest look all the same time. Gear is a pita but i'm trying, cannot buy a fucking ring drop it's triggering me, i just keep getting shoulders
cold citrus
Anyone mind looking through a log and seeing what i'm fucking up? a 12 parse is ...
id use finality over potent powder
lofty cypress
I can always get the one Sectec in dance with blades, but i don't seem to be able to get 2
swift tinsel
if you don't have guidon+4pc+700 haste you'll struggle to fit 2x sectech in blades
outside lust you won't likely be able to
swift tinsel
getting the appropriate haste, plus guidon will add damage
then just making sure to fit 2x in blades
hit every global in dance etc
frosty bramble
if you don't have guidon+4pc+700 haste you'll struggle to fit 2x sectech in blad...
I’d agree but 4pc gives blades 24seconds, so even with low haste and a 20s sectec should always save face there, there’s more wiggle time. And haste increasing dance helps
swift tinsel
I’d agree but 4pc gives blades 24seconds, so even with low haste and a 20s secte...
no it makes blades 20 sec
frosty bramble
Atleast makes the rotation feel better
swift tinsel
which is the likely cd on sectech
frosty bramble
Oh I’m dumb then lol I might have just had 4pc anyways
shrewd lantern
wasnt the talent swap always weaponmaster and pp
dont recall finality ever being dropped
unreal silo
how bad is plume? st sim is like 800 dps ahead compared to renown trink but the hardest ST content is prey
frosty bramble
But then yeah you have no second to try and get second danced sectec as you’ll want 18% to bring it to 19s
finite hedge
dont recall finality ever being dropped
depends on target count. lower target count favors wpn master
lofty cypress
aite so 700~ ish haste, 4pc, get better trinkets and more mastery.
frosty bramble
650 haste is also ok. 700 buffed with oils is fine
shrewd lantern
i dont recall logs dropping finality ever
swift tinsel
aite so 700~ ish haste, 4pc, get better trinkets and more mastery.
also if you wanna pad on that fight you can save blades til 2mins when the adds spawn
will bump your number up too lol
lofty cypress
Ah i'm fine with not padding, just wanting to kill the boss and not be a dead weight. wondered if i was fucking something up
swift tinsel
and make sure to get 2 dances in blades, missed that a few times
lofty cypress
Yeah because i can't get 2 sectecs in blades i never know if i should be dancing twice straighta way in a row and not having sectec in dance, or holding dance for the second sectec
i just tend to wing it
swift tinsel
at 1:33 and 3:14
can send dance without sectech in blades, just not the other way around
dusky yacht
30 sec cd, 6 sec duration
Dear god what
lofty cypress
so send dance without sectec in blades, and then wait for dance for sectec outside of blades
dusky yacht
Please leave the spec alone I am finally having fun
swift tinsel
so send dance without sectec in blades, and then wait for dance for sectec outsi...
p much
lofty cypress
aite sounds good
swift tinsel
you want to supercharge every sectech outside blades
stuck arrow
Right so fix gear mainly
I mean.
There's a lot in there you can do better. You should basically never be sitting idle for 3+ seconds then waste a gcd in dance immediately for feint, for example.
Your uptime is really low. Try to use your mobility to stay in melee range. You are late on adds, and don't have dance up for the adds.
In 5:30 you could have cast 17 dance+SecTec, and you cast 14. You have the same amount of auto attacks as I did in a 3:17 kill.
No pot.
Etc.
lofty cypress
hopefully i can get some half decent gear to drop. I fucking swear loot is bugged or some shit all i get is shoulders
upper salmon
Is sub seeming like a viable m+ title pushing spec with how things are looking at this point? I've been playing devour past 3200 because of how sad I was with tuning but I miss my yellow guy
weary tree
no
frosty bramble
I doubt title will be good for rogue in any spec
upper salmon
Sad times fr
hazy breach
Is sub seeming like a viable m+ title pushing spec with how things are looking a...
If you have a group its probably good enough
frosty bramble
Unfortunately we bring nothing but pad in keys lol
swift tinsel
might not be easily puggable but ye if you have a group it should be def doable
hazy breach
But pugs generally dont want rogues unless were turbo OP, and while we do good damage, we arent that OP
strange chasm
just swap to resto druid man
its what i did for keys
insta invite to every single key
tulip silo
well thats any healer
upper salmon
Definitely not any healer for 15 and up
fair stump
If I'm low on energy and blades/dance is coming in ~3s, do I send evisc or keep my combo points for burst?
strange chasm
otherwise you spend 99% of the game getting declined lol
lofty cypress
aite thanks for the help
swift tinsel
If I'm low on energy and blades/dance is coming in ~3s, do I send evisc or keep ...
hold
frosty bramble
If I'm low on energy and blades/dance is coming in ~3s, do I send evisc or keep ...
I’d hold
hazy breach
fair stump
Thanks
I usually notice that if I send dance+sectec between 10 and 20s remaining of blades, I don't get the second dance immediatly after the first
I assume that's a haste issue + lacking 4 set, at that point, do I stop sending dance+sectec at 20s left of blades?
swift tinsel
you'd hold dance+sectech with <10 on blades, then hold blades til you can fit 2x dance
blades isn't as strong anymore so sometimes you hold
warm marlin
Please leave the spec alone I am finally having fun
perma dance 
swift tinsel
feelin like sepulcher's blades uptime but now its dance
shrewd lantern
perma dance is a great way to feel like dances do nothing
shrewd lantern
also perpetually screws you if yo have downtime
swift tinsel
at that point its just a toggled aura
warm marlin
dances do something but look what they did to poor blades
shrewd lantern
rn sometimes it feels like
send the sectech stat
or you brick your alignment
later
frosty bramble
Dance only does something, because without out it were noodles
warm marlin
as it should be
shrewd lantern
I mean sub should be a noodle outside dance
thats the point
But rn you're rarely in noodle mode.
frosty bramble
I’d atleast wanna be a spicy ramen though
swift tinsel
and they did raise the floor of the spec damage outside dance, but the ceiling was lowered disproportionately
fleet acorn
how can i do dmg to salhadar and orb ? we cant cleave anymore no? or do i just dance + bp?
fleet acorn
kk so i ignore big ones
karmic harbor
if the big orb isnt dying u should hit it
swift tinsel
ye your frost mages will destroy them without even targetting them even easier
frosty bramble
Honestly
shrewd lantern
I already got gearfed baboons at 277
fair stump
Which other melees don't lose that much dmg when switching between ST and M+?
shrewd lantern
in my raid
frosty bramble
Which other melees don't lose that much dmg when switching between ST and M+?
Most cleave better than us (dk/war)
stuck arrow
and they did raise the floor of the spec damage outside dance, but the ceiling w...
Ceiling is absurdly low. Far cry from the old days where Sub was the lowest floor and one of the highest ceiling classes in MoP.
swift tinsel
Ceiling is absurdly low. Far cry from the old days where Sub was the lowest floo...
far cry from last season
shrewd lantern
swift tinsel
not even mop
stuck arrow
Lol fair.
shrewd lantern
well they wanted to "simplify" things
fair stump
Most cleave better than us (dk/war)
Do they lose dmg on bosses when using AoE talents?
shrewd lantern
which for some reason means make sub not bursty
swift tinsel
revert nimble nerfs and give it Precise Cuts treatment
stuck arrow
Do they lose dmg on bosses when using AoE talents?
A lot of specs literally have the same rotation. 😂
swift tinsel
then add at least half the damage amp from flag into blades
stuck arrow
revert nimble nerfs and give it Precise Cuts treatment
Give it the chimera shot treatment. 👀
frosty bramble
Do they lose dmg on bosses when using AoE talents?
Honestly don’t know. My 1 brain cell is used for rogue
swift tinsel
typically they trade off st for aoe and vice versa
frosty bramble
What I meant is their st natural cleave is better than ours
swift tinsel
well yeah uhdk naturally cleaves by doing its st rotation
fair stump
Honestly don’t know. My 1 brain cell is used for rogue
I always say "I'll play X in this season" and then I always go back to sub rogue because nothing else gives me the same satisfaction...
lilac stag
anyone know what trinkets perfecto is using
west tide
think last time i watched he was double passive
fleet acorn
ok itss dead 3 pulls
swift tinsel
arms gets free sweeping strikes from hitting cs
west tide
swear on prog i didnt see him puzzlebox i could just miss it
dusky yacht
perma dance <:ResidentSleeper:247808174944419840>
Bruh like
Your arguments don't make any sense guys just saying
We are hardly top DPS or anywhere near top tier
swift tinsel
constant burst means no burst
because that's just your baseline damage at that point
dusky yacht
Lots of burst means falling asleep half the fight
I don't wanna look at my 8k backstabs for 2 minutes thanks
swift tinsel
and I want my damage spikes to be spikes not bumps
vale pine
because that's just your baseline damage at that point
yep
warm marlin
I don't wanna look at my 8k backstabs for 2 minutes thanks
I do want to do that
dusky yacht
They are spikes
stuck arrow
Not if the spec is designed well. Lots of thinking involved in pooling on a well designed burst spec.
hazy breach
Yes
swift tinsel
yes
stuck arrow
Yes
hazy breach
Thats literally what we are asking for
dusky yacht
And your DPS will be shit that whole time
warm marlin
Yes that sounds great thanks
dusky yacht
Why are you asking for that
swift tinsel
because it makes the burst more impactful
stuck arrow
More fun that way. Make the burst matter more.
swift tinsel
its pretty basic
lilac stag
that’s what sub excelled and and was fun
swift tinsel
the concept of Disparity
fair stump
Why are you asking for that
Dopamine rush when big numbers
lilac stag
Go play another flat ass spec if you don’t like it
dusky yacht
Bro I am not failing to understand your "amazing concepts"
Sub is not a flat ass spec
hazy breach
I like big burst and i cannot lie
lilac stag
Sub is not a flat ass spec
Yes. It is
swift tinsel
I liked being an orbital cannon
fossil forge
this is perfection, it's beautiful
waxmaxxing
dusky yacht
If that's the way you wanna go then we will be shit in keys
swift tinsel
not a lil stick poker
lilac stag
Out 90 seconds is flat as a pancake
hazy breach
Well no
fiery fog
this is perfection, it's beautiful
what is this mount everest
frosty bramble
Spikemaxxing
swift tinsel
historically untrue
warm marlin
this design is literally 10x worse in raid
vale pine
I liked being an orbital cannon
swift tinsel
sub burst carried phases
warm marlin
than the old version
crystal bone
its joever, rogue benched
swift tinsel
https://giphy.com/gifs/xbox-game-xbox-series-x-s-oDCgaEnCuGxNCtdfOK
ugh give me this back please
hazy breach
Tww sub wouldve been #1 spec on bird
stuck arrow
And we will be shit in raids
Usually more spiky damage profiles better in raid.
hazy breach
Midnight sub is on the bench
warm marlin
yep
dusky yacht
Show me all the rogues in the world first guilds please
We're doing so good with our amazing sustained dps
swift tinsel
who's got the exile ss from dimmy
lilac stag
How are people this blind to what’s actually good
vale pine
Tww sub wouldve been #1 spec on bird
yep
warm marlin
Show me all the rogues in the world first guilds please
you may notice they are benched this tier with new static design and they would have played multiple in mfo if they had them
lethal gate
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
lilac stag
Liquid literally wished they had two rogues prepped last tier
dusky yacht
Bruh I came from assas
Assas DPS with cooldowns is amazing
Without cooldowns you are just standing there doing fuck all
It's boring af
swift tinsel
sin is consistently boring af
stuck arrow
Show me all the rogues in the world first guilds please
Lol dude you're just trolling at this point. They on the bench to make raid spots for specs with burstier profiles.
frosty bramble
but also, i think many argued that midnight sub did not change at all
Just got gutted, and now we miss cdr on sectec lol
swift tinsel
and now forced to be even more boring with Implacable literally stopping your rotation to use
fossil forge
lilac stag
It's boring af
That’s the spec identify. 40 apm boomer spec
vale pine
It's boring af
dusky yacht
That’s the spec identify. 40 apm boomer spec
And you wanna turn sub into that
swift tinsel
god I love this meme lol
dusky yacht
With sub I am feeling like I am always preparing to do something big or doing something big
hazy breach
Yet it is never big
fiery fog
With sub I am feeling like I am always preparing to do something big or doing so...
while poking with toothpicks
vale pine
Just got gutted, and now we miss cdr on sectec lol
i can confidentally say, i did not fall for the gaslighting of "everything stays the same"
swift tinsel
where it was quite big
stuck arrow
sin is consistently boring af
Sin been boring before specs even existed as we know it today. I refused to play mutilate. 😂
warm marlin
I will no longer be ragebaited 🧘♂️
lilac stag
How the hell is turning it back to higher highs and whatever lows a 40 apm boomer spec?!?
swift tinsel
time to go buy cat food
dusky yacht
Bro if you are sitting around waiting on a 1min or 2 min cooldown then you are playing the 40 apm boomer spec
How are you guys missing this
frail kindle
Midnight? No burst? Apex talents? You must’ve hit your head pretty hard brother, get up, netherprism dropped
stuck arrow
How the hell is turning it back to higher highs and whatever lows a 40 apm boome...
I think they talking about sin.
swift tinsel
Bro if you are sitting around waiting on a 1min or 2 min cooldown then you are p...
if it had a 30 sec cd you wait 30 sec
not 1 or 2 mins
that's how time works
lilac stag
Dumbass didn’t understand 30 second dance isn’t KB or DM
warm marlin
if only netherprism came back
frail kindle
Actually take me back to tww s3
lilac stag
I can’t
warm marlin
in place of goremaw's please thanks
dusky yacht
Dumbass didn’t understand 30 second dance isn’t KB or DM
30sec dance for 6 secs, you wanna press 4 buttons in one dance and you're telling me I'm the 40 apm boomer kek
stuck arrow
I mean hell. I'd take symbols & flag.
swift tinsel
lil bro
dusky yacht
I said 30 sec cd, 6 sec duration
Li'l bro you are confusing one thing with the other
lilac stag
30sec dance for 6 secs, you wanna press 4 buttons in one dance and you're tellin...
Are you actually this ignorant or trolling?
frosty bramble
Goremaw needs to be removed, it’s counter intuitive that “Next x abilities cost no energy” when we get energy for finishing.
swift tinsel
30sec dance for 6 secs, you wanna press 4 buttons in one dance and you're tellin...
if you press 4 buttons in 6 sec you gotta work on that
dusky yacht
if you press 4 buttons in 6 sec you gotta work on that
GCD?
swift tinsel
its a 1 sec gcd
hazy breach
Sub in tww: Big burst, flexibile damage cooldowns that can be assigned wherever theyre needed, big cleave while doing full ST.
Sub in midnight: Good on constant big aoe cleave
swift tinsel
wow he's getting it
hazy breach
Which profile is preferred in raid?
dusky yacht
...
lilac stag
wow he's getting it
He’s not.
dusky yacht
My god what the hell lmao okay continue on with your silly suggestions then
keen dome
if only netherprism came back
Netherpirsm apex talent....
cosmic prairie
pressing more buttons = / = more engaging gameplay
and i’m 100% sure youre relying in your group to cc mobs instead of using the apm you desire to do all the stops yourself so ur just arguing for the sake of it
lilac stag
I don't wanna get called softly offensive so I'm trying here
Go full asshole
keen dome
My god what the hell lmao okay continue on with your silly suggestions then
Alright so I've got this idea: rogue tank.
steel wyvern
Pull a scath
lime wigeon
.
dusky yacht
pressing more buttons = / = more engaging gameplay
and i’m 100% sure youre rel...
If you guys want longer cooldowns and more burst
Then YOU are pressing LESS buttons
steel wyvern
hazy breach
Not necessarily
steel wyvern
Rosvall typing
frosty bramble
Alright so I've got this idea: rogue tank.
Can we atleast keep tricks and put it on a dps we don’t like ?
keen dome
Can we atleast keep tricks and put it on a dps we don’t like ?
Yes, 100%
hazy breach
Idk why APM is brought up, its not super relevant to the discussion
swift tinsel
Go full asshole
I can't I have errands to run
keen dome
It transfers all aggro to them.
cosmic prairie
Alright so I've got this idea: rogue tank.
they did this in SOD and it was really bad
steel wyvern
100% tricks
frosty bramble
Obviously … lol
keen dome
they did this in SOD and it was really bad
SoD isn't retail and isn't representative of anything modern
lilac stag
Idk why APM is brought up, its not super relevant to the discussion
I offended someone saying assa is 40 apm boomer spec
dusky yacht
Idk why APM is brought up, its not super relevant to the discussion
I didn't even bring it up
dusky yacht
I offended someone saying assa is 40 apm boomer spec
You didn't offend me my guy
cosmic prairie
SoD isn't retail and isn't representative of anything modern
the people who designed rogue tank would undoubtedly be consulted on it again lol
frosty bramble
Just like the past few seasons assa will likely be better in more gear. But the gameplay around apex (which doesn’t provide unless you drop envenom) is weird af (but hey it may be bis for paladins.
cosmic prairie
games are really not that different also
keen dome
Classic rogue is incredibly different to modern retail rogue
cosmic prairie
not really press button do dam press button do cc press button not die
frosty bramble
Stop pressing button and get no number
swift tinsel
80085 spec
keen dome
I guess Sub is like classic rogue in that we are pushing backstab and doing no damage.
frosty bramble
Not 8008135?
lilac stag
I guess Sub is like classic rogue in that we are pushing backstab and doing no d...
we aren’t pushing backstab, and still not doing damage
steel wyvern
I guess Sub is like classic rogue in that we are pushing backstab and doing no d...
Except it was sinister strike back then lil gup
keen dome
Same difference
frosty bramble
dense fossil
!log
Hey there, would anyone be willing to give some feedback to my Rogue friend? His name is Esdain.
fair stump
What classes are being sought out on M+ and raids?
fleet acorn
what is the best ring combo i should get out of m+/raid - heroic? or just go for crafted ones?
lilac stag
What classes are being sought out on M+ and raids?
Anything not rogue
fair stump
That's sad
fair stump
I guess the only good thing is that sub is dominating in pvp
lime furnace
Getting some huge mixed info for sub and haste. The two "top" raider.io sub rogues have less than 18% haste. Is 18% haste not a requirement?
lilac stag
I guess the only good thing is that sub is dominating in pvp
About that…
tidal solstice
actually true. got an invite last night, group absolutely blasted and lead told me at end his main is rogue so when he plays alts he alwasy tries to invite rogues
fleet acorn
Getting some huge mixed info for sub and haste. The two "top" raider.io sub ro...
m+ is not raidd
keen dome
What classes are being sought out on M+ and raids?
What level of the game? Pugging, Heroic? Mythic? +12 keys, Just weekly?
shadow hamlet
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
lime furnace
m+ is not raidd
Im not talking about raid.
fleet acorn
then haste doesnt matter
lime furnace
I'm talking about raider.io M+ score, the top M+ sub rogues have less than 18% haste. I thought we needed 18%
fair stump
What level of the game? Pugging, Heroic? Mythic? +12 keys, Just weekly?
Pugging
hazy breach
Either you get ~700 haste or you get ~200, never something inbetween. For big aoe getting those 500 stat points into mastery is better
But its at the cost of a lot of ST
lime furnace
Either you get ~700 haste or you get ~200, never something inbetween. For big ao...
k but would that hurt your ST
nvm
so 700 haste is a good middle ground between ST and AOE?
keen dome
Pugging
What level of pugging? Are you looking to push high keys or just general play? 'Cos rogue is fine for general play.
unreal ledge
then you want 18%
fair stump
About that…
Oh come on :c
lime furnace
Alright, ty. So these top M+ sub rogues are going more mast/less haste purely for gigachad AOE pulls?
unreal ledge
yes
fair stump
What level of pugging? Are you looking to push high keys or just general play? '...
I guess +12 or higher?
keen dome
I guess +12 or higher?
Probably fine atm. But the 'meta' perspective will form and Rogue'll naturally be a less desireable pick. But, who knows.
lime furnace
yes
ty, i'll figure out a good point for myself. Might drop a bit below 18% purely for bigger AOE
The MM hunters can handle the ST
unreal ledge
i'm a litlte under, but the thalassian oils bring me up to 17.7 which is close enuf. then my trinkets for haste pull me up over for shadow blades anyways
lime furnace
i'm a litlte under, but the thalassian oils bring me up to 17.7 which is close e...
That's a good point, I forgot about oils.
fair stump
Where are you guys getting haste? None of my gear drops have haste, I'm barely scratching 13%
hushed roost
dont worry guys when i organize a protest in silvermoon youll have as much mastery as you guys want
unreal ledge
crafting it and then rings and shit yeah
keen dome
Gear with haste. Rings from Nexus are good for it. Crafts. Alleria neck, tier sets, etc.
vale pine
Where are you guys getting haste? None of my gear drops have haste, I'm barely s...
you can enchant haste on rings too
unreal ledge
i have haste/mastery on all 3 of my crafted gear
hushed roost
haste is an azeroth government psyop
lime furnace
Where are you guys getting haste? None of my gear drops have haste, I'm barely s...
I'm having a hard time NOT getting haste on my items
cosmic prairie
Alright, ty. So these top M+ sub rogues are going more mast/less haste purely ...
if u sim urself vs the best rogues ur prob only like 5-10k dif and its moreso ilvl gap than stat optimization
fair stump
I'm having a hard time NOT getting haste on my items
I keep getting versa gear
unreal ledge
ya i'm having hard time not gettin ghaste
lime furnace
if u sim urself vs the best rogues ur prob only like 5-10k dif and its moreso i...
IL gap yea, and 4 piece. Ran LFR/Norm/Heroic and couldnt get my last piece D:
unreal ledge
i had to craft crit/mastery fora while cause i had too much
violet palm
And haste flask+food if you that low
fair stump
you can enchant haste on rings too
Is that more important than the crit ring enchant?
unreal ledge
ideally, no
vale pine
Is that more important than the crit ring enchant?
you want to get to 650-700 haste
unreal ledge
its jsut if u need to add more haste an du can't get it somewhere else
keen dome
Run six hundred Nexus-Points for the rings.
You will only mildly regret running six hundred Nexus-points for the rings.
steel wyvern
wait until u hear about the 1500 haste breakpoint in ST
Is that the next gcd?
unreal ledge
i've ran magister's terrace 25+ times and i've seen the mount 3x and never have seen the ring, not once even for someone else
fair stump
You will only mildly regret running six hundred Nexus-points for the rings.
I ran 100 dawnbreakers last expansion for the ring, it never dropped
keen dome
But you could make it worse
unreal ledge
i just crafted the ring and done with it lol
keen dome
And run 100 Nexus point where it's two rings you want
You'll get one and then, darn, you've gotta get the other to finish the set.
red flame
You'll get one and then, darn, you've gotta get the other to finish the set.
Real af
Keep watching everybody else get Omission 
shadow mist
Does anyone know if I can add a sound when coup de grace is ready using blizz cdm?
keen dome
BiS is pretty whatever.
It's just very well statted for us and the proc isn't terrible (It's like 0.5% or something?)
lilac stag
Nothing
thin sinew
well thankfully managed to snipe this off a bloody frost mage who rolled a 96
steel wyvern
It does nothing?
keen dome
here is it's total damage from a +10 Nexus I ran earlier
unreal ledge
Does anyone know if I can add a sound when coup de grace is ready using blizz cd...
make a macro with /coup de grace /black powder and it will case coup first when its ready instead of black powder, u dont need to look for it really
warm marlin
It also does like 0.5% on ST
it doesnt even seem to be that high in logs
lilac stag
Neck is sim bait. .5 generous
warm marlin
its bait!
hazy breach
Idk i checked a couple and saw 0.4s and 0.5s
chrome palm
I’ve seen neck .15-.4% in logs, usually .3%
steel wyvern
L’ura double socket neck mogs that neck 10/10 times by the way
keen dome
Yeah probably
warm marlin
ye for sure
keen dome
But Ring set + Neck is so much haste that it's gonna let you use other pieces for more mastery
Which is why I'm bothering to grind the other ring
steel wyvern
I mean
keen dome
But it's veeery whatever long-term
steel wyvern
I’m telling you the lura neck is cortisol maxxing
lilac stag
But Ring set + Neck is so much haste that it's gonna let you use other pieces fo...
I’m not recrafting my haste mastery pieces thank you
keen dome
Haha
steel wyvern
Basically
steel wyvern
L ur a neck is asu frat leader
unreal ledge
ya but everyone wants lura neck too
steel wyvern
And the alleria neck is clavicular
lilac stag
I've chosen the stupid route
pug life
steel wyvern
ya but everyone wants lura neck too
Fuck everyone there’s only one me bro
keen dome
I only have Alleria neck 'cos it was in my vault and saved me 60 crests
unreal ledge
true, only one me too
thin sinew
everyone getting mad about the proc but blind to the haste lol
unreal ledge
i'm so greedy my guild knows that i will buy gear from them for gold so they all roll against me to sell it to me
keen dome
everyone getting mad about the proc but blind to the haste lol
I literally said the proc is whatever, it's the mondo stats!
thin sinew
trying to get enough haste has sucked so far
unreal ledge
that will get better kil. i have to recraft my gear to get rid of haste i have so much
keen dome
It comes and goes
Tier pieces contribute a good amount too
I'm tempted to craft haste/mastery pants
unreal ledge
my gear is pretty insane, i'm 273 with alnseer and guido
keen dome
272 with guidon and snot trinket
thin sinew
yeh atm i've got that shitty world boss trinket >.< least this is 'sort' of a constant for a bit
keen dome
which is terrible btw
thin sinew
I had sims saying to put back on vet gear for haste i was like bruh...
unreal ledge
oh dear lol
keen dome
Fuckin' DO SOMETHING TRINKET.
unreal ledge
did u craft for haste, you can have 3 mythic crafted items by now
thin sinew
this tier i've been cursed that's for sure xD
unreal ledge
choose a ring and u should be fine for haste
hushed roost
definitely holding crests over 3rd crafted item
thin sinew
just working that all out now
hushed roost
surely something good drops right guys!
unreal ledge
surely!
keen dome
big prizes on wednesday
I'm gonna loot a mythic chest
or a dagger
I would also settle for Mythic Nexus ring
unreal ledge
i guess i just want any mythic i can turn into tier or a dagger yeah
void ocean
Lol imagine going 3-heal and still not needing athro poison
eternal abyss
I’m having trouble understanding Dance+Sec Tec CDs.
On opener we pop everything, but once that first Dance ends, Blades are still running and Sec Tec is around 6 sec before it comes off cooldown.
We press Dance without SecTec and spam Evisc? But do I then click SecTec during that Dance or wait for next Dance?
I kinda always keep SecTec for Dance windows and never click it without.
astral axle
You know what, I hope you get those and also even something like a tiny porcelain elephant which you can add to a menagerie of little oddities and trinkets
keen dome
You know what, I hope you get those and also even something like a tiny porcelai...
that'd own
I'd 100% take a tiny procelin elephant over an item
chrome palm
Lol imagine going 3-heal and still not needing athro poison
Makes you wonder if it was ever needed at all
unreal ledge
I’m having trouble understanding Dance+Sec Tec CDs.
On opener we pop everything...
i just full send double dance on shadowblades and dont save for the 2nd sectec, but i'm not sure if that's right or not. it feels way better than waiting tho
i just send sec tech when its ready inside dance
stuck arrow
Makes you wonder if it was ever needed at all
Just make everyone buy avoidance enchants and you get the same effect. 👀
eternal abyss
i just full send double dance on shadowblades and dont save for the 2nd sectec, ...
Yeah im in same boat. Idk whats correct.
Ig it depends on situation?
unreal ledge
i think what i'm doin is right, getting lots of 99 parses
versed fiber
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
eternal abyss
Mind sharing your logs in dm or here? I’d like to check the sequence
chrome palm
You ideally supercharge both secrets
By holding dance for a bit in blades
You use dance before guidon expires
It’s just kinda awful
lusty acorn
When new class tunning?
vale osprey
What are people using to make buff bars for trinkets?
swift tinsel
When new class tunning?
maybe we see notes tomorrow
dense fossil
Hey there, would anyone be willing to give some feedback to my Rogue friend? His...
Anyone have some free time to check? 
lusty acorn
maybe we see notes tomorrow
Maybe after 3 hours
fleet acorn
how come ayjie cdm is the only one i found where u can add trinkets/pots to buff tracker and extra bars for defensive buffs?
lusty acorn
keen dome
maybe we see notes tomorrow
Evis back on nimble. +3% crit raid buff. What else? 2% to BP?
hazy breach
how come ayjie cdm is the only one i found where u can add trinkets/pots to buff...
Idk arc and better cdm can both do those things
Im sure most of the other options can
fleet acorn
Idk arc and better cdm can both do those things
better cdm cant
hazy breach
It definitely can
fleet acorn
thats what i was writing
night sluice
is matrix trinket from FL TW anygood?
fleet acorn
do i need to setup from 0 on one of these 2 or can import my bcdm profile for icons?
alpine wraith
yea think people were asking for the guidon duration specifically
swift tinsel
I'm not sure if it can do buff icons
swift tinsel
yea think people were asking for the guidon duration specifically
ye that's what I ended up making
lime wigeon
They don't really track the duration. Just start a timer with a predefined duration and animation
lime wigeon
For 99.9% of the cases for something like CoS it'll be correct
But if there's some time dilution or similar that it's not accurate
keen dome
It's pretty ridiculous the in-game CDM can't track Trinkets at all.
keen steppe
is there a specific log command or can i post a log for analyse in here?
keen dome
You can do !log to do a log
keen steppe
with the link ? or only !log ?
fleet acorn
what about centered cdm addon?
keen dome
It'll open a thread and you can post it in it.
hushed roost
Wait what causes guidon and blades to desync?
hazy breach
The affix in keys
stuck arrow
M+ affix
hushed roost
ah
drifting igloo
Which affix?
hushed roost
emissary
acoustic lodge
Still no rogue in RTWF?
heady dragon
wait, you CAN macro Guidon to SB? i thought it doesnt work
drifting igloo
You can, just not SD
hazy breach
Cant macro it with dance
graceful crown
hazy breach
Which makes it kinda redundant to macro it to blades
drifting igloo
I have SD/Guidon macro'ed and never get a desync
heady dragon
Cant macro it with dance
ah ok
heady dragon
Which makes it kinda redundant to macro it to blades
eh, i never had dance macro with sblades cus im a weirdo
sharp ravine
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
placid crown
But how you do that ?
fair stump
Evis back on nimble. +3% crit raid buff. What else? 2% to BP?
Wait, they removed evisc from nimble?
That's why we don't evisc on aoe anymore?
heady dragon
Wait, they removed evisc from nimble?
ye, a while ago
tranquil egret
if wow analyzer updated for sub ?
placid crown
How can you cast 2 supercharged sectecs during one blade?
keen steppe
set bonus extend duration from blades
placid crown
yeah but sectec cd still around 19~20sec
swift tinsel
lust+guidon
hushed roost
yeah i only really get it supercharged with lust
placid crown
so you cast the 1st at start of blades, the 2nd at the end, but if you used the dance like 7~8sec before and it's also the end of dance, you cant have the supercharged
hazy breach
!guidon Do this instead ecologue
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
keen steppe
so its fine to macro guidon with sb ?
stuck arrow
Evis back on nimble. +3% crit raid buff. What else? 2% to BP?
Take me back...
placid crown
lust does not affect sh*t
placid crown
since when ?
swift tinsel
you lose a second of blades uptime but if you really want to you can make that tradeoff
keen dome
Take me back...
The dream
hazy breach
!haste
wicked joltBOT
Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.
heady dragon
since when ?
because shadowdance has more duration based on haste?
placid crown
because shadowdance has more duration based on haste?
yeas but not with lust
sturdy mortar
because shadowdance has more duration based on haste?
lust doesn't work on SD, I think it only works on SecTech
keen dome
Yeah
hazy breach
IF ONLY THERE WAS A COMMAND
heady dragon
thats such a blizz thing man
heady dragon
IF ONLY THERE WAS A COMMAND
im not reading if it doesnt include funny cat gifs
sturdy mortar
Saying that exact thing
tbf, I just got here. LOL
placid crown
@hazy breach I just dont get how your 2nd sectec can be supercharged, is it because you use a 3rd dance at the end of blades ?
stuck arrow
The dream
Funny enough though Sub was considered super troll in raid. 😂
Hidden op for like an expansion from that point forward.
keen dome
Adding a funny cat gif to all commands so when people use them we get to see a funny cat, too. That smart
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
hazy breach
keen dome
You delay the dance a short moment and because of haste, sectec has a shorter cooldown
And because you delayed you can dance sectec
astral axle
keen dome
Because blades is 20s with tier set
placid crown
ok so with 650 haste it seems that the recover of sectec is way too long even with a bl
keen dome
Which is why it stipulates that
patent rose
Hey all, just a quick question to clarify something because I swapped to sub not too long ago, in any situation involving 2 adds (like first boss of Windrunner Spire), do we still use shuriken storm and black powder as our main abilities or does it switch to shadowstrike and evisc?
glass rock
so anyone wants to share his raidbot premium with me so i can sim all dungeons? or anyone want to create ann acc and ill send him paypal? 😄
astral axle
shadow lance
Hey all, just a quick question to clarify something because I swapped to sub not...
Finisher is Evisc 1-2 target, BP if 3 or more. Unless you're talented into "Potent Powder". You can Black Powder at 2 targets then
sly delta
does the cast animation of sectec have to finish during blades or is it just if i get the button pressed before blades ends the damage amp will be applied?
shadow lance
Hey all, just a quick question to clarify something because I swapped to sub not...
And for building :
In dance : Shadowstrike 1-3 targets, more you press Shuriken Storm
Out of dance : backstab 1 target, 2 and more, shuriken storm
patent rose
Finisher is Evisc 1-2 target, BP if 3 or more. Unless you're talented into "Pote...
Ok so since we use potent powder in general for m+ it would always be powder as finished, and for our generator is it shadowstrike for 1-2 targets and BP for 3+?
hazy breach
does the cast animation of sectec have to finish during blades or is it just if ...
It does not snapshot at all
So blades needs to be up when they hit
patent rose
oh you answered it 😄
hazy breach
Aka 1.2s after you press the button for the second one
shadow lance
oh you answered it 😄
Yep, hope it's clear
placid crown
no guidon is kinda frustrating right now
cosmic prairie
no guidon is kinda frustrating right now
if it makes u feel better using it doesnt feel like anything
like when u press puzzle box, u can see the number go brrr but guidon is legit background noise
placid crown
it's just that having the sectec back JUST after the end of blades...
cosmic prairie
frail kindle
so
zenith thorn
If I'm at O CP but all my cds are available with trickster, it better to build with backstab to 6+ cp then send blades+dance+ST or just use the dance + shuriken to build or would i build with strike?
frail kindle
weve lost the rogue on bird XD
hazy breach
If I'm at O CP but all my cds are available with trickster, it better to build w...
Ideally you shouldnt have eviscerated to end up at 0 cp to begin with
But yes then you'd send dance+shuriken
zenith thorn
Ok but that means I messed up got it, so i should've planned better
hazy breach
Dont finish when sectech is about to come up (or blades)
zenith thorn
Even if I overcap energy obviously?
zenith thorn
Cool thanks
fiery summit
is it normal during SB that my second sectec doesnt fit into the second dance? or should i delay the second dance to fit sectec into it
cosmic prairie
is it normal during SB that my second sectec doesnt fit into the second dance? o...
read above xd
its funny that guy just said that
placid crown
😢
fiery summit
oh fr lol myb i just woke up HAHA
placid crown
bros dat pvp dummy that let you in fight for lightyears
fossil forge
i have 200 fps in all content and on the last boss (midnight falls hc) i have like 3fps when we pull
any ideas what could be causing this?
disabling all addons is the simple fix rn
cosmic prairie
disabling all addons is the simple fix rn
u just solved all ur problems congrats
hazy breach
Its just baseline
placid crown
ok
hazy breach
Indicated by the green tooltip of the cd
placid crown
but not even written in the spellbook in other way
placid crown
I'm trying to have enough haste without guidon to get a 18second sectec cd
858, not enough
hazy breach
If you find me somebody that likes it i would be surprised
alpine wraith
yea it is also krangled as f
half comet
yeah thats what I thought lmfao
hazy breach
I wanted BL to not be useless
alpine wraith
and now it is even less useful than in tww
hazy breach
Instead BL got worse and we got haste breakpoints
lean rover
Has there been any other tips for sub rogue on paladins fight. I saw some top logs use ST with evis.instead of BP
half comet
ya bloodlust being worse is pretty dumb i rather just go back to no haste
what specs want vers currently?
spice matrix
outlaw
hushed roost
i miss vers mast
hazy breach
Has there been any other tips for sub rogue on paladins fight. I saw some top l...
Not really. Evis VS BP on 2 target is about the same with PP specced
hazy breach
Sin is also ass
hollow compass
Sin is bad but its better than sub at that fight lol
fiery fog
everything is
mental saddle
for chimaerus what's the best for us ? 1st grp or 2nd ?
fiery fog
i felt 1st group was better
fiery fog
yeah other classes do that better too
astral axle
meanwhile warrior just presses wrecking throw
plush olive
You'd think that rogues as an archetype would have a way to deal damage through shields or something. Like find weakness but for absorbs
hazy breach
Turns out you want a dps that can do more damage during the 30 second window than the guardian druid
sly delta
(if you dont have the 4p+guidon like me)
yeah got puzzle box so squeezing in the second sectec is very close, prob need to switch to haste flask to make sure i can hit it better
gray wedge
You'd think that rogues as an archetype would have a way to deal damage through ...
What if we called it Expose Armor?
hazy breach
So a class without any burst aint doing that much
gray wedge
And you had to use it as a finisher
frail kindle
wait
the guardian druid was doing more than the rogue in the intermission?
because thats very believable
ive seen bears do illegal things in m+
chilly kite
all they had to do was replace the rogue
echo kills it tomorrow replacing perfecto with 3rd ele sham watch
dense fossil
Anyone that would be willing to give my friend some feedback? 
cosmic prairie
Anyone that would be willing to give my friend some feedback? <a:Copege:14371612...
whats his ilvl
dense fossil
whats his ilvl
264 i think
hushed roost
the guardian druid was doing more than the rogue in the intermission?
=yes
sly delta
what is the haste breakpoint for fitting the 2nd sectec into blades with 4pc?
alpine wraith
700 or so with guidon
it is a bit less tight
but otherwise like a bit more than 700 should be fine
west bluff
So a class without any burst aint doing that much
rogue seems miserable outside the egg phase, best you can do is soaks and/or sprint+cloak the orbs
we can go bonkers with puzzlebox or similar in egg phase though
cosmic prairie
if hes doing 200-300K dam during SB/puzzlebox aoe, 100-180K outside of puzzlebox aoe and 80-110K dps ST (bar mechanics) hes probably not doing anything wrong, its just rogue/gear
alpine wraith
the thing is even in the egg phase
we are very mid
like really
like surely not the worst but also
frail kindle
we can go bonkers with puzzlebox or similar in egg phase though
idk if thats true
astral axle
Bonkers seems a bit much haha
alpine wraith
nah assa might be able to almost do the same as bear
astral axle
we dont have super high burst
frail kindle
xd
frail kindle
this fight just looks like another nightmare for rogues
pallid osprey
do we not want to use ancient arts on sec tec?
frail kindle
no rogue spec has st, no rogue spec has cleave, no rogue spec has burst
alpine wraith
apex 3 is whatever on sec tech
we dont actively avoid it
but also dont look for it
steel wyvern
if hes doing 200-300K dam during SB/puzzlebox aoe, 100-180K outside of puzzlebox...
Who is doing 2-300k during SB/puzzle?
That seems low
hazy breach
no rogue spec has st, no rogue spec has cleave, no rogue spec has burst
The ST isnt too bad, but no boss tier has been even close to being ST
frail kindle
the thing is im pretty sure an unholy dk or an ele shaman with hands will GAP you in st
like those are the real st specs i think
alpine wraith
ele shaman is also not crazy
north garnet
cleave really hurts in certain dungeon bosses
alpine wraith
uh dk is tho
cosmic prairie
Who is doing 2-300k during SB/puzzle?
for 264? undefined stats ?
u might peak higher but by end of pull thats a p normal number for that ilvl i think
hazy breach
the thing is im pretty sure an unholy dk or an ele shaman with hands will GAP yo...
well yeah
cosmic prairie
ur not hitting the 500K marks until like 270 and hella mastery stacked
alpine wraith
even with a lot of mastery getting that high will be hard i guess
i have around 1k mastery and this was voraius around 273 ilvl
maybe with M puzzle you can get to around 300k
radiant swift
the whole dance + stec hold < 10 sec to blades is if second dance is less than 10 sec of the blades cd right? otherwhise u have to wait for 1 + 2/3 of the other one?
cosmic prairie
i have around 1k mastery and this was voraius around 273 ilvl
big dam big freakin dam
alpine wraith
you can send blades dance + sec with with 10 secs on the second chage yea
as you exit first you need to wait 3 or 4 seconds anyway
so the other charge gets back
radiant swift
yeah thats what i ment with the 2/3 on the second one
its without tfd so its another 6 sec
i believe
fair phoenix
what about stats
real belfry
With 700 Haste and light trink i'm finding that I have another secret tech at the end of Shadowblades. Is it worth holding that for the next supercharger or just sending it with blades and having the CD up with a dance charge?
hazy breach
With 700 Haste and light trink i'm finding that I have another secret tech at th...
!guidon
wicked joltBOT
Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.
placid crown
yeah got puzzle box so squeezing in the second sectec is very close, prob need t...
superb idea
olive flame
plush olive
Raidbots droptimizer?
hazy breach
Raidbots droptimizer?
Doesnt really work for sub
strange solar
oh
hazy breach
As it fucks with your haste breakpoint
thin sinew
haste break points woooo
hazy breach
Like if you have 700 haste its gonna show any haste item as bad
Likewise if you have no haste its gonna show haste items as +++
night rampart
why do people shuriken storm in the opener on 1 target?
hazy breach
Its just cursed
still gazelle
679 haste okay with guidon and 4pc?