subtlety

[alpine wraith]

just we killed it when the bugs were still there so warlock did more than me even

and mage too

[short radish]

didn't know we had that many rogue players

[lilac stag]

We don’t

[tribal blade]

may have helped i used a kinda click baity title

[lilac stag]

Its prophet refreshing every 5 minutes

[alpine wraith]

time to make some shorts and see if people look at it

[tribal blade]

lol how did you know

holy shit amazing comment

i love this

[keen dome]

The guy listing utiltuiy buttons has a good post too

[storm umbra]

Max form liquid said that rogue giving less profit than a vantus rune atm, think about it

[tribal blade]

i just got to it

[alpine wraith]

vantus rune are also getting stronger i think

[olive canyon]

Lots of good posts

talking about the design approach and not just numbers

[tribal blade]

ok yeah i've never seen someone break it down with all the pure dps classes like that before

[olive canyon]

the fact that our talent tree is so god damn basic and capstones dont feel good at all

[storm umbra]

just look at assa talent tree

[alpine wraith]

also every time we have aoe utility

it gets deleted

[storm umbra]

u gonna feel bad

[tribal blade]

#bringbackaoekidney

[lilac stag]

20 pages of sub rogues. Nope it wasn’t that good on boss dmg.

[tribal blade]

somehow it's ok for druids to have a million CCs

[alpine wraith]

the fact iron wire existed for so many years

[tribal blade]

but we get aoe kidney and suddenly it's unacceptable

[alpine wraith]

is kinda silly

[hazy breach]

I'm mostly sad that we lost most of our niche in terms of the profile. Not being able to flex dances that well and our big burst being mediocre

Like tww sub would've been insane at birb, but now we're just good

[lilac stag]

we got our old ToS niche back. Soaking

[keen dome]

I miss nimble

[tribal blade]

yeah if you could put TWW sub into this raid we'd be top dogs

[olive canyon]

just goes to show, with all their retuning and pruning,rogues were sort of just passed over

frost mage got pruned hard, but actually feels pretty good and still blasts

[tribal blade]

i think the simplest solution is literally just give us a dmg raid buff

[lilac stag]

Nah. Not passed over. Nerfed before any real content started.

[tribal blade]

that's it

[alpine wraith]

yea niches are dead unless your name is mm hunter

and devourer dh

[lilac stag]

then ignored.

[storm umbra]

ngl ill sell my soul for bfa outlaw

[vale osprey]

They're literally so scared of rogue

I s2g it's every single tier we get nerfed in beta/ptr

[alpine wraith]

also nerfed talents in pvp by 66%

[lilac stag]

M0 nerfs.

[alpine wraith]

just in case someone was having fun

[karmic harbor]

when i saw the 15% bp nerf i knew it was over

[keen dome]

they're gonna buff BP next week

I know it

[tribal blade]

it was very interesting watching them walk back a bunch of nerfs they did

but didn't do it for sub

[thin sinew]

Is there anyway to trick raidbot to stop giving only gear comps with 600-650 haste?

Like a way of subtracting our base haste by 50 or something?

[tribal blade]

it would create the issue of sub becoming too strong in keys

[meager creek]

Weapon - Main Hand Enchant Weapon - Acuity of the Ren'dorei Enchant Weapon
Weapon - Off Hand Enchant Weapon - Arcane Mastery Enchant Weapon

Why not double Ren'dorei?

[olive canyon]

that the nuttiest part, i sort of still get the BPnerf butnot the nerf to nimble

[tribal blade]

maybe nimble

[keen dome]

2%

[tribal blade]

hahaah yeah

maybe that

[keen dome]

Nimble would probably be the right way to fix it, yeah. although it just creates more issues but ye

Give raid buff, give utility

[lilac stag]

[vale pine]

true

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

yeah i noticed that

[keen dome]

let me turn the boss around

even if it makes no sense

[tribal blade]

it wasn't even that amazing

but now it does nothing

[lilac stag]

Stopping Ova was raid utility

[keen dome]

Have they done a patrolling boss since Ova

[olive canyon]

last time i remember distract being useful was that shannox or whatever in firelands

[keen dome]

Oh I guess Garbadge man

[alpine wraith]

and diurna

[tribal blade]

imagine if pickpocketing a boss before it was pulled would apply a dmg reduction to it

[keen dome]

please don't unleash this thought on pugging

[tribal blade]

so before every pull you would need to pickpocket

[tribal blade]

hahaha

[vale pine]

it still is in m+

[lilac stag]

sorry there are no pockets to pick

[keen dome]

"rogue go debuff boss"

pulls boss

[vale pine]

too bad shrould is kinda useless in most dungeons

[tribal blade]

for most bosses yeah /cry

[keen dome]

Have you noticed how many bosses this tier have detection

[tribal blade]

they really really do not want you to be able to shroud anything anymore

[keen dome]

Chimarius does, Dwagons do

[vale pine]

yep

[keen dome]

I think Voraius does

[vale pine]

but its a topic we had multiple times i think

[keen dome]

It's such a weird thing to give a boss mob

[vale pine]

dungeon design is over engineered to reduce complexity and choice by e.g. limiting skips via % or stealth detection

[keen dome]

Yeah

But I mean raid bosses

[lilac stag]

at some point everyone in here will realize rogue is a dead class in the eyes of blizzard. We just tend to find a way to make it work most tiers. This one not so much. gg bliz

[vale pine]

only a few have tbh

[keen dome]

It's still a weird addition

[vale pine]

it is

[vale pine]

i don't think it is

its just, a lot of design decisisons rcently

[lilac stag]

delulu

[keen dome]

If Rogue is dead then we died back on Zul and are just ghosts in the machine.

[vale pine]

feel like there is some sort of conflict between design space allowed and dev intention

[keen dome]

or haunting the game

whichever is funnier

[vale pine]

e.g. i am faily certian, class designers are not happy that everything is so dumped down

[lilac stag]

Troll raid is coming

[vale pine]

or that almost all talents became passives

so you now just stack passives to the moon

[lilac stag]

Well they better figure out how to design the specs to work on a controller and still have some purpose in pve content

[keen dome]

Maybe we'll get a new Zul situation and they'll take BP away from us

Just complete the circle

[vale pine]

and give us back (now) uncapped blade flurry?

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/no-shake-my-head-golden-girls-smh-oh-man-gif-14406870892947143609

[vale pine]

i might take that

[keen dome]

Just deleted.

it wouldn't be Zul 2.0 if they gave us something

[vale pine]

rogues main problem atm is tuning

the raid is cleave and st

[keen dome]

I disagree, because it's always going to be tuning. I think our main problem right now is more fundamental issues in utility / raid buff.

[vale pine]

they nuked cleave on subtlety

why is single taget not high enough to make up for that

[keen dome]

Damage knob isn't ever a solution but a bandaid.

[vale pine]

i mean it works for DK

for 2 xpacs now

[keen dome]

true

But they also have SO MUCH RAID UTILITY

Sooooooooo much

(In part due to fight design, but that may be a concious decision)

[frank narwhal]

Is there any way to copy over some of my old WAs into the new M33kAuras? I only have the old .lua files, don't have any imports on Wago

[pastel rampart]

they should make poison kill ppl in 8 sec after being applied... rogue very good then..

[keen dome]

Give us the old posion quest poison

[tidal marsh]

I agree, give rogues grip

[keen dome]

that kills you in 24 hours

or w/e it was

[vale pine]

you can still buy that item

[pastel rampart]

pve should get smoke bomb back tho fr, aoe dr for the group

would be insane

[keen dome]

Now it does mean you need to fight the raid boss for 24 hours BUT.

[vale pine]

but also just use cloak to remove the poison

[karmic harbor]

why would a raid boss have detection

[keen dome]

Ye, that'd be great. Darkness for Rogue but also give it a choice of LoS for M+

[karmic harbor]

that's stupid

[barren haven]

I mean they cut off half the output for players in terms of interface and stuff and at the same time tried to balanced that for dungeons and raid as well as classes. It just can be a mess at that point considering the development time for an xpac. I think it’s a matter of time it all will be polished and balanced („again“)

[vale pine]

reminds me of these chines or so streamer that did these ultra long dungeon runs with low geared people

[keen dome]

Hah

That sounds funny

[vale pine]

it sounds dreadful

but funny to see how they are still on the xth bos after y hours

[keen dome]

Dreadfully funny?

[vale pine]

i mean, i would not do it

[keen dome]

It's a common thing in pugging to see a group in LFG and then, say, check again in 4 hours. And the same group is there. On the same boss.

[vale pine]

but its fine to open a stream like it every hour to check on it

[keen dome]

I once saw the same group be stuck on a boss for 7 hours before, I can only assume, they disbanded.

[pastel rampart]

also i wouldnt mind a decoy acting like treants did for boomy in sl, or like target dummies do in classic

feels very trickstery

[keen dome]

Well, the group was probably a ship of thesues very quickly but still

[pastel rampart]

very unique group util

good thing i pvp tho... we mega busted over there

still buff sub

need maybe 80% more evis

[short radish]

this stopped being interesting after the 5th rerun.

blizzard needs try something different like making sub absolute bin tier at the start of the tier THEN nerfing it even more

[alpine wraith]

what i find interesting

is many specs can have aoe burst

but if sub has it

danger zone

[keen dome]

We're too cool

Maybe we're just always bad in the first season of an expansion

Maybe that's the rule

[alpine wraith]

guardian druid has better burst than us

[swift zinc]

hello rouge geeks can someone help me how i do the procs ( the black two bars ) darker ?

bc in raids and dungons i cant see them that good bcs they so light

[void ocean]

probably some vibe coded addon somewhere

[alpine wraith]

someone made a guide with an addon

[swift zinc]

*'

[alpine wraith]

to change the sfxc

[void ocean]

i wish DN had smth like that too

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/226359213427916800

[steep raven]

Go ask in pvp, but it's Trickster

[void ocean]

np mate

[swift zinc]

i dont have this option 😭

[steep raven]

Just type Opacity in search bar

It's Blizz option

Or find a Cvar command for it

[void ocean]

advanced user interface works fine

for all cvars

[steep raven]

yeah

[void ocean]

Advanced Interface Options, sry

[steep raven]

that would be spellActivationOverlayOpacity set it to 1

[swift zinc]

thank you very much guys ❤️

[steep raven]

What puzzles me is how DS not topping DPS numbers on Vorasius and Saladbar? I know most don't want to play DS, but ain't no way there's not a single good playing rogue who would just play the best possible spec, which on paper should be DS. So how come?

[tribal blade]

i think you underestimate just how much everyone hates DS

[void ocean]

sea turtles

[thin sinew]

8% play DS on vorasius mythic

because they like pain apparently

[steep raven]

I don't, there's 4!!! DS rogues out of ~450 sub kills on Saladbar

[hazy breach]

It's not really the best spec on paper

They're simming about the same

[tribal blade]

makes sense since sub passively cleaves

sorry trickster

[thin sinew]

it's rather simple
do damage with passive talents
do same damage but have to deal with the awful mark

[steep raven]

Yeah I know, but on pure ST, shouldn't it just be better?

[thin sinew]

sims =/= real life for one

[void ocean]

u gotta swap to adds

[hazy breach]

Idk what fuus sheet is doing

But they're within 0.4% when I'm simming

[steep raven]

Oh really?

wtf

[plush roost]

Trickster is 250 behind for me kekw

[steep raven]

@hazy breach Yep, just simmed mine

Why tf, Perfecto is playing DS on Bird?

[hazy breach]

Idk ask him

[thin sinew]

because he can?

[steep raven]

Isn't there a chance of lost mark which destroys attempt?

[hazy breach]

I mean it's not like the mark just randomly explodes and disappears

[grizzled hornet]

i dont think he is, when i tuned he was complaining about the mark

[alpine wraith]

maybe their analysts calced that the DN snaps in intermission are more than the possible 3 coups

but im sus

i was watching exile and it was kinda tight

to try and get the 3 sec tech + 3 coup

[hazy breach]

But you probably need to have dn up when he goes from birb to egg

[alpine wraith]

that seems annoying as f

[grizzled hornet]

thats a nightmare

[hazy breach]

Idk I guess the thinking is lingering darkness for the last 10s or something

It's probably fine

[dry flame]

i find it strange that Crown trinket 6/6 HC sims lower than the Crucible (rep) trinket

[steep raven]

Just checked, he was playing DS, then they went to do more Mythic splits and now he's back on Trickster

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

screw DS

[hazy breach]

It do be like that

[wild vine]

Thats great actually

On use dmg trinkets are a pain

[hazy breach]

Crucible strong, crown trinket mid

[alpine wraith]

im so glad i got gaze hc in vault in case dagger does not drop from vora

[dry flame]

guess it will be outlaw only trink

[tidal solstice]

i cant get trinkets to save my life.

not the ones i want at least. all the other ones though, got dupes

[hazy breach]

Crucible is freely available

[alpine wraith]

does outlaw stack crit?

[tidal solstice]

yeh still using it + puzzle box

[wheat edge]

on our normal and heroic beloren kills yesterday we had double plumes drop on both kills

[tribal blade]

you guys didn't win myth gaze out of your entire raid team on 1st chim kill?

damn

[alpine wraith]

we had 2 plumes drop in hc

i got neither

kek

[wheat edge]

I guess the normal ones were kinda useless but I got a heroic one

[tribal blade]

sad lol

[hazy breach]

But then you're fine

[tribal blade]

but now i can't complain about loot for the entire tier

[keen dome]

Sure you can

And you should

[tidal solstice]

been using a withered saptors paw instead since it has a bonus speed stat on it, and it makes up the missing haste to push me to 680

[olive canyon]

been running double champ trinkets for a while - crucible and box

and whilst fine you just wish that was 13 ilvls higher

[tidal solstice]

and it only simmed 400 lower than coee

[thin sinew]

i'll just leave this here >.>

[olive canyon]

my heart goes out to you

[tidal solstice]

ive never even seen those insignias lol

[thin sinew]

got lucky on a haste one. bags full of random gear for when i finally one day get guidon and something for m+

[alpine wraith]

you can buy the pvp trink

likely it is better than insignia

[tidal solstice]

i figured i would dump coee for this since i needed the haste

and per the sim it wasnt a big loss at all

[alpine wraith]

yea that one is not that bad

but you lose the leech and ms

it is kinda neat

[olive canyon]

just saw perfectos opener and he didnt care about apex on supercharged cps during dance on opener

i thought we always try to apex those

[alpine wraith]

maybe he did and his ui hides the thing and just chekcs the buff

[olive canyon]

i dont think so

he just spammed out evis

[wild vine]

Rwf players dont always play every minmax
Been that way plenty of times across many players and points in time

[civic lava]

Hey guys, could anyone advice me on what to do next as i am not sure. Basicaly i have 90 Myth crest left this week, and i'm not sure if the right move is to craft a 285 part or to wait. I somehow crafted the belt in heroic last week, so that's that. If craft it seems to be a toss up between different stats legs or a Crit/haste ring

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9SwnYvfMA4xGGFg7Ks72dG

[wild vine]

Crafting legs is pretty good

[thin sinew]

i thought about that after last seasons trinket draught.
It's because insignia is constant agi vs proc /1min onuse

[alpine wraith]

damn that is sad

guess that speaks of our cd windows

[fair vessel]

i have a noob question. But im kinda new and im trying to craft weapon for the first time. What is the difference between these two? Which one should I buy?

[alpine wraith]

one makes it easier to craft for the crafter

unless you want him angry use the rank 2

[fair vessel]

thanks

[civic lava]

Making things more difficult make it harder to reach the max rank for the crafter 😉

[meager coyote]

question, does 2target sim for sub/assa work? trying to figure out which spec will get me more boss dmg on dragons boss prog with current gear

[little ferry]

In 2 targets, during dance, without powder talent* would it be worth to use both evis and BP at least once for the dance macabre damage ?

[alpine wraith]

no danse does not do enough dmg

[hazy breach]

You can if you want to

But its whatever

(as in not a gain but not really a loss either)

[short radish]

this is why i do it for the vibes

[little ferry]

So worth using maybe if you lose melee range and need to fit in a global

[short radish]

and like to pretend we're playing in a better expansion

[wheat edge]

I do it cause I can't remember if I am running powder or not

lil evis here lil bp there

[alpine wraith]

yea you can confuse people a bit

like why did he do that!

[short radish]

lmao sameeeee

"i'm not fuckign up if i do it, so I may as well press it"

[little ferry]

Maybe they buff danse macabre and we ll get some optimizations in 2t 3t situations idk

They won't but at least sub is good enough now and we can t complain anymore

[fiery fog]

The optimisation would be to use backstab instead of strike once in dance and i dont know if i want to do this

[wheat edge]

Hope that stays away forever and ever

[fiery fog]

Sub literally needs a fix for at least some cleave and its in a good spot imo

Rn its either full single target or full aoe with no in between

[atomic bobcat]

just bring back the old nimble flurry, and tune it down

[arctic scroll]

I miss old nf

[fiery fog]

I paused in tww so i dont know how good that was

From hearsay it seemed super good

[little tapir]

Lowest key lvl to get to 3000 rating ?

[arctic scroll]

13s

[hazy breach]

Its more like 50/50 12 and 13s

[little tapir]

ty

[hazy breach]

But it depends a bit on how fast you do the keys

[little tapir]

i'm struggling to find groups where ppl use bl instead of forgetting it

and where ppl cut

[fiery fog]

Try to find a group so you dont have to pug

Its a different game then

Im in literal hell when playing with pugs and have the best time when playing in a group

[alpine wraith]

dont cut

[dry flame]

I can confirm as someone who has entirely pugged through all of HC and some of mythic this expansion 🙂

[bronze karma]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[meager coyote]

weaponmaster over poten powder for 2target??

[vale pine]

potent powder becomes better on 3

so yes

(on trickster)

[meager coyote]

damn, so I don't even black powder without orbs up on dragons boss??

[fiery fog]

Wouldnt weaponmaster be better on mythic dragons then? Sure there are orbs bit usually i only use a sectec +2-3 bp before they are gone

[vale pine]

i mean

dragon boss is kinda

pad on orbs for logs

[meager coyote]

yeah I'm assigned "kill boss" we have others assigned to pad

[fiery fog]

Like all fights

[meager coyote]

so I guess weaponmaster and st rotation it is

[dry flame]

at this point, its probably best to play Assa no? great boss dmg ?

[vale pine]

rip your log then

could do deathstalker tbh

[meager coyote]

that's fine I'm a grayboy anyway

[hazy breach]

Its about the same

[night sparrow]

now that we cover the rest of blades with dance with no supercharging 2nd sectec, is it good to macro dance+evis, dance+bp and dance+storm for the same reasons we macro dance+sectec ?

[vale pine]

if you only play single target most of the fight, might be worth to consider

[meager coyote]

there's both represented on boss dmg logs and I have rly good sub gear not rly a lot of assa gear so gonna stick with the spec

[hazy breach]

Assa looks better on boss damage logs because it cant really pad. So its always full ST

If other classes were full ST and not padding they would do more (typically)

[dry flame]

isn't that good for prog?

ah i see

[vale pine]

orbs need to die

so both is relevant

[alpine wraith]

just get a bit more mastery as sub than usual

[fiery fog]

Sub is pretty good in orb damage

[vale pine]

we just have a good oppotunity to use secret there

[alpine wraith]

but you still want the haste

[meager coyote]

I'm just confused cos top boss dmg sub log is pressing bp on 2 targets

[fiery fog]

Because of its instant damage

[vale pine]

because other classes typically have higher ramp

[alpine wraith]

yea you can secret+coup and maybe 1 bp

[meager coyote]

unless I'm missreading log???

[unkempt yacht]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[crystal bone]

worth holding sectec a few to send on the orb spawns?

[vale pine]

if you use potent powder, thats correct

[alpine wraith]

well because 2 targets are bosses so bp is kinda fine

[vale pine]

but the diffrence is not that big

[alpine wraith]

and you do want to use PP

[lilac stag]

No. It’s a meme since that’s all they do and it’s not even great

[meager coyote]

ah yeah I guess, do you bp outside of dance without potent powder?

[alpine wraith]

if assa did devourer lvl dmg maybe

[meager coyote]

or is it literally just full st rotation on 2targets

[alpine wraith]

but as it stands yea

[vale pine]

dance makes no diffrence

[meager coyote]

well I guess u build with fan outside of dance

that's only diff

[vale pine]

yes

[crystal bone]

i think on mythic u want to send sectec on cd but in heroic u might hold to send on orbs? (parse padding ofc)

since both dragons are side by side in mythic?

[fiery fog]

On mythic dragons sectec alligns pretty well with orbs

[crystal bone]

oh nice

[fiery fog]

The problem is potent powder feels kinda useless

[vale pine]

orbs also need to die in mythic

it also aligns well

^^

[fiery fog]

You do more damage with bp to orbs
But you usually get off 2 to max 3 bps on orbs

[vale pine]

thats true, i still like it for padding

[fiery fog]

I think for the log you just need less orb damage in your raid

[crystal bone]

this is what we call ethical padding, cuz the adds do need to die

[vale pine]

need to inflate my staning on the damage meter artificaiylly

[crystal bone]

^^

[fiery fog]

Ofc they need to die
But potent powder feels like a nuclear bomb vs a coughing baby

On mythic dragons at least

[drifting ether]

3 more to go, might be a week or 2 before my guild can do mythic

[untold elk]

Sorry, I am having trouble understanding Ancient Arts rank 3. With the proc available, the next finisher refunds combo points but... does it hit harder also?

[vale pine]

crown is not too bad if the group is not too melee heavy

if its melee heavy

[hazy breach]

Yes, because it expends combo points you proc Ancient Arts rank 1

[vale pine]

(having grip helps a lot too)

[alpine wraith]

pp is fine on mythic because you can hit both dragons

so it always has value

it is the other way it loses value in HC

because you cant get them to kiss

[fiery fog]

Wouldnt on 2 targets weaponmaster be a little more useful still

[alpine wraith]

as 1 dragon stay on the air

[fiery fog]

Thats what im actually trying to ask (but didnt do so correctly lmao)

[vale pine]

a little yes

[alpine wraith]

you might do a bit more boss dmg but lose overall usually

dragons is just weird

[untold elk]

Ah thanks! That was why I could not get it. I thought rank 1 concerned only CP builder but ofc in that way the finisher expends cp...

[night sparrow]

Many did that mistake and understood wrong, tooltip isn't THAT clear but makes sens once you know

not really intuitive

[fiery fog]

I guess ill try it a little once we recleared to dragons today
I feel like you hit the dragons and intermission add long enough for weaponmaster to be better

And orbs dont live long enough

If you get a natty coup on the orbs with weaponmaster they should be gone even faster

[crystal bone]

i just play the talents that fuu's guide tells me to play

[alpine wraith]

weaponmaster only works on strike

so uh

[fiery fog]

Oh

Nvm

Kekw

[alpine wraith]

i mean if we had legion weaponmaster maybe

but yea wm is not big

[fiery fog]

How about weaponmaster + potent powder
Would that work somehow?

Cant look at the talenttree rn

[alpine wraith]

you also storm a lot so not even backstab gets wm value

[arctic scroll]

I still dont get why we dont sectec with ancient arts

It feels sad

[alpine wraith]

you dont avoid it

it does fine dmg

[tepid trellis]

tell blizzard to fix their shit then

[alpine wraith]

just bugged to not work with the other 2 clones

[tepid trellis]

so it calculates the entire sectech in the dmg

and not just the Physical hit

[alpine wraith]

like sec tech not working with singular focus

almost 2 years now

[tepid trellis]

which is apparently "not a bug"

shrug

[hazy breach]

That shit aint happening, we gotta convince them to make it so it just spawns a regular third clone instead

[alpine wraith]

i mean they made it work krangled ass in coup

JUST MERGE THEM AND MAKE THE CLONE DO DMG

but sec tech naaaah

[crystal bone]

more clones more poggies

[alpine wraith]

maybe apex would dupe the clones

so sec tech spawns 3 or 4

big

[fiery fog]

I love it when you dont log yourself and all your clone dmg isnt listed as your damage in the log

When fighting something like chimaerus

Akaaris soul my beloved

[silver panther]

does shadowblades buff all abilities or just auto attacks

[crystal bone]

there's always that one boss every tier

[hazy breach]

All

If it was only auto attacks it would be genuinely useless

[silver panther]

ok i just hate the wording

[fiery fog]

Shadowblades in S1 and 2 dragon flight was a meme button

[silver panther]

somethings say abilities some dont

then im assuming the 4 set buffs abiliities too 6%

[hazy breach]

It makes the number on shadow blades 26% instead of 20% yes

[silver panther]

thanks

[thin sinew]

i'm kinda sad this is dead even on paladins
badly tuned though doesn't that work out at like 10% damage on a pretty weak ability

[alpine wraith]

it used to be way better but yea

got nerfed

and actually other talents got buffed

[hazy breach]

Its more than 10% since we have a ton of shadow clone amps, but yeah its not great

Its slightly better on deathstalker, but still kinda meh

[thin sinew]

ahh yeh true

[alpine wraith]

if only it was 20% chance to create a clone per target hit

so we could get clones on 5 targets always

maybe we get second shuriken

[thin sinew]

well it's like why make it a chance, but i guess they had to because of the clones tuning the damage itself wouldn't be enough

[alpine wraith]

instead of goremaw and other aoe things

none of our capstones work in AoE XD

well DB does but finality is weaksauce

[fiery fog]

Subs class fantasy is clones not working as intended

[alpine wraith]

well they did manually fix a lot of bugs

from beta to release

but then were like MY JOB HERE IS DONE

oh wait aoe blind works

not that one one fuck you

[fiery fog]

Deathstalkers mark still not working consistently? Not my problem

[alpine wraith]

singular focus and lingering bugged since their inception

[fiery fog]

https://tenor.com/view/gone-gif-24439860

[short radish]

@tribal blade made it

almost did my best to brick the key in the stupidest way

walking up MT stairs, stepped ot wrong mob and fell down

and body pulled a pack

[tribal blade]

LOL i did that last week and my guildies made fun of me mercilessly

high five

[short radish]

monkey together strong

[tribal blade]

also grats

[short radish]

tyty

[tribal blade]

now get title

right now

[short radish]

bro i so can't be fucked, these keys are exhausting now

[tribal blade]

just get 4k right now and you won't have to push for the rest of the season

lol yeah i feel that

[short radish]

i do have a 17 WRS

[tribal blade]

that sounds doable

[short radish]

and we were 5 mins under time

so thats easy 16

even if we brick 17

[tribal blade]

oh yeah you're chilling for 17 then

is 5 mins under 2 chest

[short radish]

duno

what do you think i am

[fiery fog]

Are you doing these as sub or law

[short radish]

a p*sher?

[tribal blade]

LOL

[short radish]

sub

[tribal blade]

yeah if you're 5 mins under on 16 17 shouldn't be too bad

not unless that's the key level where the jumps become big

[short radish]

hopefully not

[tribal blade]

every season there's a key level where you'll suddenly find yourself in hell going up 1

[short radish]

i mean the 16 MT was kinda chill if i didn't absolutely brick

we would have had 4-5 mins to spare still

[tribal blade]

it usually starts around the 16-17ish range early season

maybe even earlier

[olive canyon]

whats your comp fimb

and what do you tend to end a dungeon run out, i know it changes based on dungeon - trying to guage where i should be at for 15s

[tribal blade]

BM

GET HIM OUTTA HERE

[short radish]

nah he swaps to MM when its a proper key

[tribal blade]

where ele for skyfury

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

hahaha

[short radish]

the healer would play it

resto

if rdruid wasnt so strong

[tribal blade]

motw is big

and yeah rdruid is bg

[short radish]

uhhhhh

depends if im ethical

depends on the dungeon

this was MT and me being ethical

[tribal blade]

MT is one you wanna be ethical in

[short radish]

idk if youre below 120k you're probably doing something wrong though

[short radish]

yeah so much big mobs

[tepid trellis]

DS funnel stonks

[lilac stag]

chat are we winning yet?

[tepid trellis]

trust

[tribal blade]

the ones that heal yeah

[tepid trellis]

cluegi

[fiery fog]

All these golems needing to be eviscerated

[short radish]

no. stop this propaganda

[lilac stag]

stonks 🚀

[tribal blade]

with a tank doing bad pulls i can end up below 120k sometimes

[short radish]

oh yeah true

[tribal blade]

but that's a low key problem

[tepid trellis]

you are just too blind to see the vision

and thats okay

[short radish]

if tank pulls like a coward

[tribal blade]

high keys that doesn't happen

[lilac stag]

exhibit A

[short radish]

bro if having vision means playing DS in keys, just poke my eyes out now

[fiery fog]

In my 10s and 11s i usually am at something between 120k and 160k depending on key
Havent started pushing yet though

[tribal blade]

hahaha oh noooo

[short radish]

yeah you're doing fine mate

keep at it

[fiery fog]

I always hesitate to hold cds at the end of a pack lmao

[tepid trellis]

cant wait for it be actually better just to see the mald

[short radish]

my feelycraft says just to send

sectech is your biggest damage hit

if you get sectech and another spender

[fiery fog]

You just know a sectec would be overkill but when you dont send it the pack lives on forever

[short radish]

it's good enough

[tribal blade]

yeah you can be very aggressive with dances

[short radish]

again also, you gotta decide if youre ethical

or if youre padding

and also if the tank is chaining

[tribal blade]

whenever i choose not to send dance as a pack is dying

[lilac stag]

padding your mum

[tribal blade]

it takes forever to die

[fiery fog]

Overall is all that counts?

[short radish]

yah thats why i just send now

[short radish]

in low keys yeah. in high keys timing is what counts

[lilac stag]

no one else is sending it so it takes 20 seoncds anywyas

[fiery fog]

Nobody is going to praise you for „wow you did so much dmg to that one golem in pack 3!“

[void ocean]

golden rule: pack near end and I dont send - it takes eons; pack near ed and I send - they die instantly... hmm

[fiery fog]

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

i think AA you also need to do a lot of ethical

[lilac stag]

so no rogue in AA?

[tribal blade]

pressing BP on alpha birds or the big worms

feels troll af

[tribal blade]

play sin 😉

[lilac stag]

get fucked

[tribal blade]

nah sub is better

[crystal bone]

sub is definitely title range viable at least

[tribal blade]

sub is great in keys yeah

[crystal bone]

some chinese rogue already has 18's

[olive canyon]

great, seems to track, i usually end around 140-160 depends on the comp/dungeon

[short radish]

thing is though +10s are probably 5s or 6s this season

[hollow spear]

You've got nothing one me, scath

[tribal blade]

yeah scaling is weird this season

[short radish]

i think the rule of thumb is "whatever the high key pushers are at by w3"

is the min of where you should be

[fiery fog]

Some of my friends still meme on sub in keys and tell me i should go law

I will never go on law

[short radish]

your friends are silly billys

[tribal blade]

might see it going up to 24-25 this season

[fiery fog]

All my homies hate law

[lilac stag]

somehow vers is my desired stat again

[short radish]

if the law doesn't serve the people, then the law does not deserve to be obeyed

wait sorry wrong discord

[tepid trellis]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[lilac stag]

the guidon bar is a big W though

[fiery fog]

Guidon with the current affix is borderline unplayable

[hollow spear]

a guidon walks into a bar

[lilac stag]

good news is the affix is broken on NA

[fiery fog]

The affix dissaligns blades and guidon every single time

[hollow spear]

puzzie b my man

[lilac stag]

it tries to spawn and isnta disappears

[bronze turret]

Sub is just stupidly simple

[lilac stag]

lol

[tribal blade]

it is yeah

[lilac stag]

what do you think assa is?

[tribal blade]

but it's a vibe

at least to me

[fiery fog]

Hero Puzzle b vs 6/6 myth guidon

[bronze turret]

Yea i meant it being easy being a good thing

[obsidian crag]

thats why i play it

[bronze turret]

100%

[short radish]

i think i have omega high mastery because champ guidon sims higher than heroic puzzy b

[lilac stag]

the trinket lineup shit is our skill expression rofl

[bronze turret]

💀

[fiery fog]

Ngl id rather have sub this simple than what it used to be

[short radish]

i just want my flexibility in cooldowns

[fiery fog]

Overcompicated vs dumbed down

[lilac stag]

sub is fine, wish it did dmg in raid

[mighty citrus]

i need to choose between puzzybox myth and a socket in my vault

i dont want to pick something

it feels bad either way

[fiery fog]

Socket vs myth box?

[short radish]

slightly warm take but this isn't much different to how difficult sub used to be

[fiery fog]

You need advice for that?

[wicked fox]

Hi, what would you suggest me to craft? Still have 4 sparks (I'll enchant and gem soon dw xD)

[thin sinew]

#bringbackflagellation
line up kings!

[short radish]

instead of following symbols cooldowm, you just follow sectech cooldown

[bronze turret]

As a casual i play with garbage so i am doing more than fine compared to others

[lilac stag]

puzzle box for eventul Assa arc in raid. crest saver as welll

[mighty citrus]

yeah i was thinking the same like yolo it. blizz i belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeve

[fiery fog]

Bring back dust and watch the world burn

[hollow spear]

sectec stacks when

[short radish]

ikr

[hollow spear]

or sectec reset with dance when

[short radish]

either or

[fiery fog]

Dust with back to back sectecs

[short radish]

and boom we have flexiblity

[mighty citrus]

turns out i will never use puzzy box as i will never play assa cause shit 😄

[short radish]

wait no i need to write this in the prophet rogue thread

[lilac stag]

2 sectech charges is our biggest hope

cope or dope

not sure which

[thin sinew]

the no enchants is triggering me but the worse one is your highest ilvl dagger in offhand

[weary tree]

Double sectec

lets go

[lilac stag]

to fool loot council so SV doesnt get a dagger

[fallow rampart]

guys is it ok or why they fuc me so hard on dps? and what should i look when watching logs - parse or key%

[thin sinew]

actual fivehead swap for logout actual big brain plays

[void ocean]

parse should be somewehere between 0 and 100

[wicked fox]

Well I didn't have gold to enchant, I'm just starting the game, that's why I'm asking advice on what should I craft, wowhead's recommanding belt but I've seen many players crafting rings

[lilac stag]

or I've just seen it done while being on LC lol

[short radish]

bro every time i go to start writing the manifisto

[hollow spear]

green means great?

[short radish]

i get dragged into something else

[thin sinew]

it was you wasn't it xd

[void ocean]

co2 neutral dps

[hollow spear]

don't let the rogue haters get to you

stick to the plan

[lilac stag]

nah, we dont belive in SV haha

[fiery fog]

Rogue haters are only rogue haters because of pvp

[tribal blade]

lol no worries, you're living the classic pushing scenario

[lilac stag]

biggest rogue haters are blizzard and rogue players

[fallow rampart]

so i should look only on key% dps?

[tribal blade]

no more free time

[thin sinew]

naaa just ragging on enchants i have cheap bozo enchants just so it doesn't show. but yeh defo swap those daggers around.

regarding craft i went for belt purely for second embel
people could have done rings as they had bad ones in that slot it's a fairly flexible thing

[void ocean]

bro parses are the last thing u want to watch, first check ur rotation n stuff

[lilac stag]

bruh, 2 buttons, what rotation

[wicked fox]

So I should focus on getting the 2nd embelishment and then replace worst gear I have, is that right? (I swapped the dagger ty haha)

[fiery fog]

For m+ there are too many variables you dont see in the log

[void ocean]

still rotation 😄

[hollow spear]

is it me being a dumbass or is there even a little bit of enjoyment in trying to get the guidon thing right?

[void ocean]

technically

[fiery fog]

Size of pulls
Dmg of your group
Deaths
Chainpulls
Etc

[lilac stag]

Rotation or a shuffle?

[void ocean]

tomato - tomato

[alpine wraith]

if you do sub 100k as sub and decent gear barring bad knowledge

[graceful crown]

Me: going TFD
Tank: 1% mobs non stop chainpulling

: ->

[alpine wraith]

likely tank did krangled ass pulls

[fiery fog]

I love pressing a trinket right after shadowstriking
Cant think of anything more eventful than this

[alpine wraith]

you will get used to vanishing sometimes if you see a lone mob taking too long

[hollow spear]

is 100k in wowhead = 100k in logs?

[dry flame]

Enchants

[lilac stag]

being able to see the timing of the buff makes it better (for me). Still irritated by the delay.

[alpine wraith]

and which ones dont get you in combat if you stay kinda close

[hollow spear]

the delay is shite

but timing the 2nd sectec right feels kinda rewarding

[fiery fog]

Did you know guidon has an animation as in you place a banner

[thin sinew]

Yeh, after the dagger craft anything after that is pretty much upgrade worst slot (within reason) like not tier slots so belts/bracers/rings are the main targets in this season even legs are a good shout.

definitely need to sim them though so you don't get crafters remorse

[fiery fog]

Surely thats the reason it takes so long to update

[lilac stag]

like our coup animation

No one fucking cares

fix it

[void ocean]

bring back charged coup

[wicked fox]

Ok ty very much for your answer, didn't know we could sim gear we don't have

[hollow spear]

I'd prefer yanking it into some ranged dps' butt that doesn't target swap

[graceful crown]

all our animations are non-existant why that trickster shitty coup must do that long animation wtf

[fiery fog]

They only had time since its implementation (a week before tww release) to fix it (more than a year now)
You cant put so much pressure on poor overworked blizzard employees (they chill all day)

[lilac stag]

Blade rush should have been the coup animation

[hollow spear]

That's the best part about simming. Checking gear you don't have and dream about better days.

imagine if we still had double coup

800 haste requirement

[fiery fog]

Imagine we had working talents

[hollow spear]

don't be ridiculous

[lilac stag]

imagine if we did dmg in raid

[hollow spear]

you guys are kinda going nuts here

stay realistic

[void ocean]

that wednesday eagerness while vault is generating loot...

[lilac stag]

… realizing it’s wasted on a rogue

guys best vault ever.

[fiery fog]

Surely we get a nimble buff next week right

And all bugs to talents fixed

[wicked fox]

where is it on raidbots? I can't find it

[void ocean]

shiv added to nimble

[hollow spear]

go to top gear and add the item you want to sim at the ilvl you want

[void ocean]

and shuriken toss

[fiery fog]

Just to see a cloak and a wrist in your 2 mythic raid spots

[lilac stag]

atropic and cloak will carry me home

[fiery fog]

[wicked fox]

ty!

[void ocean]

cute u think im mythic raiding

[lilac stag]

seriously

[fiery fog]

Cloak is the one thing that gives me warmth in the coldest sub nights

[lilac stag]

rogue vault

[fiery fog]

Mechanic? Just cloak it bro

[graceful crown]

perfect example of a small indie company

[fiery fog]

Mm needs a 4% buff

[fleet acorn]

Either legs/ring/neck/feet craft with this Week ? All bis Items come from last boss mythic or m+ vault only ?

[lilac stag]

hunter needs to cast while turtled.

[fallow rampart]

but its also depends key level? or no

[lilac stag]

fully ascend

[chilly kite]

we are the meme class for the rwf. and have been all race and blizz just ignores it

[fiery fog]

Realz disguising himself als skillz

[lilac stag]

well we're one of 3 melee in for 2nd to last boss

[bronze turret]

Realz have nothing to do with live tuning

[chilly kite]

have you listened to any caster channels at all

[lilac stag]

why would i listen to dribble

[chilly kite]

both echo's and liquids, just meme on perfecto and exile the entire time about only being there for atrophic poison, and thats it

[hollow spear]

doesnt matter

they are there, arent they

[lilac stag]

the laughing at assa and outlaw was worth it in exile's channel

[chilly kite]

its gonna come down to a damage check, and they are gonna sac the rogue for more damage

[hollow spear]

imma take the participation trophy any day of the week

twice on Sundays

[alpine wraith]

read second line

at any key level if tank pulls like 10 to 15 mobs

and into bosses

you wont ever do less than 100k

it could be a +2

[fiery fog]

Im set for the first 5 bosses again this week
Im eating good

[lilac stag]

assa cope on boss dmg is fucking funny

[stone vessel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[chilly kite]

i'm still going back and fourth on 12+ whether to ss black powder on aoe packs or storm and black powder.

[lilac stag]

get that prio dmg in

[stone vessel]

can/should I macro shadow blades with shadow dance?

[fiery fog]

Sub funnel cope

[chilly kite]

say there is like 7 mobs do we storm bp or do we ss bp

[lilac stag]

you can, especially with Guidon trinket being seperate from all of it

[karmic harbor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fiery fog]

Backstab into bp

[chilly kite]

during dance

[karmic harbor]

Oh it's not even there

[graceful crown]

shuriken toss into bp

[karmic harbor]

But ye I have a blades/sd/secret macro

[lilac stag]

they literally just did that themselves and asked since it's not listed

[burnt loom]

yes during dance, counts for danse macabre

[karmic harbor]

Didn't see

[stone vessel]

same, just wondering if that doesn't screw up buff timers

[karmic harbor]

It's good I think

[stone vessel]

I suppose I can add trinkets to that same macro?

[lilac stag]

No

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[chilly kite]

i'm trying to figure out where i keep missing damage in keys, i'm in puzzlebox jail for the season because i got mythic box, and it just feels bad to send blades when box has 20 sec on cd, but then looking back at my logs and seeing how many blades i miss because of not doing that. is box just a 3 min cd in keys

[lilac stag]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[stone vessel]

what is guidon?

[fiery fog]

Box is a 3 min cd always

[lilac stag]

The only trinket we want

[fiery fog]

(And gaze)

Plume is alright too

[chilly kite]

so regardless of if there is 15 seconds left on cd, never hold and just send on the next round

[fiery fog]

Mhm hard to say
You need to get a feeling about when to hold and when to send

Id just send blades on cd if i know i can get the full duration into the pack

[chilly kite]

that is probably my biggest, macro issue with this spec, is box. when i was using guidon it was ez just slam it all together every time, but box just does so much freaking damage in keys

[valid yoke]

Okay puzzle box feels awful to use fuck that trinket 😂

[glacial eagle]

legit fuck box
I miss Lily already

[fiery fog]

I also hate not being able to backstab for 2 seconds

[valid yoke]

I’m going back to my champion track guidon WHICH APPARENTLY SIMS HIGHER ANYWAY

[burnt loom]

but you use both the same, you cast them before the cd. who's macro-ing them

[valid yoke]

…

[wicked fox]

can we have 3 embelishments if we craft 3 pieces or 2 is the max?

[glacial eagle]

2 is the max

can't equip a third

[chilly kite]

box sims less than guidon, but in practice box absolutely destroys guidon, and thats hero guidon to mythic box

[wicked fox]

ok but we can equip 3 crafted gear, right?

[alpine wraith]

yea just dont put any ebellish

[chilly kite]

also since when is there diminishing returns on trinket actives, did i just always missthat? box says 861 but when i pop mine i only get 821

[wicked fox]

ok ty

[alpine wraith]

it has been for a while even on uses get dr

kinda sad

[chilly kite]

losing 40 mastery from dr is kinda nuts

[valid yoke]

!?!?

[fiery fog]

Chinese tech is to go full mast in keys
Ignore haste

[chilly kite]

could be key level tho, i was only doing 10-11's with guidon and i'm doing 13-14's with box

[valid yoke]

Oh yea I know box is better in m+ im talking about raid XD

[fiery fog]

Box might be better for salhadaar as well

[chilly kite]

oh fk that i'll never use box in raid, stand still for 2 seconds with 900 things on the ground to avoid nty

[valid yoke]

THANK YOU

[chilly kite]

you'd think after 2 expansions we woulda figured out how to solve the thing faster

[glacial eagle]

TWW delve "puzzles" atrophied our brains again

[chilly kite]

saves the world multiple times, still can't figure out rubiks cube

[fiery fog]

Remember they had to nerf pbox for udk specifically because it was too good

[swift tinsel]

Remember when they had to nerf udk specifically because it was too good

then walked it back entirely

[grave abyss]

rogues are not an int class

[hybrid prism]

does it matter which hand we have our enchants on?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[chilly kite]

we used to be a trap disarming class tho, and tradionally the rogue is the guy who solves the puzzles in D&D

[hybrid prism]

sweet ty

[chilly kite]

I mean D&D rogue is dex/int just saying

[swift tinsel]

hey I disarmed a few laser lines in NPX last night

my group thanked me

(it contributed nothing to the key)

[hazy breach]

It kinda bricks your ST, but its probably worth it for overall.
Going PE over ⚠️ signs though is absolutely not something i'd recommend

That just bricks your ST for practically no reason

[chilly kite]

incorrect it caused the key to go on longer because cast time to disarm lol

[swift tinsel]

they had died and were running back lol

[chilly kite]

okay well i mean if your jus sitting there i guess no reason not too lol

[karmic dagger]

hey can someone here explain to me the process of light company guidon and how it affects the opener?

[hazy breach]

Going full mastery is like +2% in big aoe and -2% in ST
Going PE is slightly above margin in big aoe but an enormous -4% in ST

[chilly kite]

i also did some testing yesterday with guidon, and having sub 30 ms lets you just set it and forget macro it, and not have to hit it early. i gained nothing hitting it early, it was identical to just macroing it into blades sectek macro

[void ocean]

so 50 dps loss in ST, gotcha

[hazy breach]

Your MS is completely irrelevant

[chilly kite]

is it a tooltip issue then? i was just watching the cooldown on everything multiple times with macroing it in and hitting it natty, and it was identical everytime

[hazy breach]

Can i macro my Haste On-use (Emberwing Feather/Light Company Guidon) trinket together with ?
No, because Deepening Shadows can take upwards of 1 second to update, if you macro them together you will miss out on the benefit of a longer .

[swift tinsel]

added a color change to my guidon buff bar after 1sec for extra insurance

see purple = send

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for the random trinket fix to where it goes back to instant.

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[hollow spear]

You need to account for human lag

0.85 seconds

[twin surge]

what are you using to make the guidon buff bar? which addon?

[hollow spear]

Take it or leave it

[lilac stag]

ArcUI

[swift tinsel]

Arc UI

[hollow spear]

I'm surprised that it hasn't bricked anymore

[chilly kite]

how much of a dps loss is not having the innitial dance longer?

[hollow spear]

A lot

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/lovesick-this-big-big-like-this-gif-19466516

[swift tinsel]

under Custom Bars

[hazy breach]

The entire point of using the trinket is getting longer dances

Or well, a large part of it atleast

[chilly kite]

the 2nd dance still benefits from it

[hollow spear]

Yeah so 50% value

[hazy breach]

Or you can have both benefit from it

[lilac stag]

as long as you send it while it’s up

[chilly kite]

man i miss delay macro's

[swift tinsel]

maybe one day blizz will allow cdm to track trinket buffs

[lilac stag]

How are you delaying off gcd casts.

go play UH

[hollow spear]

I mean you could ahk it

[lilac stag]

and cast sequence everything

[hollow spear]

But that would completely mess it up for you if you go out of melee range

Just have to train that inner beat

[swift tinsel]

just have a click track play in your headset

Dave Grohl it

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-metronome-gif-10480647

[chilly kite]

i had a ss macroed into it before trying to just macro it all together thinking i was smarter than i was lol

[swift tinsel]

having the buff bar show ms is handy though on top of the color change

[chilly kite]

hitting an off gcd buff natty feels cringe

[swift tinsel]

can just look for that then send

[lilac stag]

Dance is what needs to snap and that can be pressed any time since it’s off gcd.

learn to count to 1. It’ll be fine.

[swift tinsel]

they're probably dedicating an hour or two to fixing it then saying fuck it for the rest of time

and its just a feature like stance delay

[hollow spear]

If your one is not one but zero point eight you dun goofed though

[lilac stag]

I do enjoy how simple specs are yet needing to not spam a single key sequence makes brains melt

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/sanic-the-hedgehob-running-gotta-go-fast-fast-gif-4964355

[hollow spear]

Imma be honest

[swift tinsel]

"If I'm not pressing buttons every GCD I will literally die"

[hollow spear]

This delay is major ass

[swift tinsel]

• most dps

it is yeah

[lilac stag]

The delay is, but it should not wreck a CE players brain

[swift tinsel]

esp bc its variable based on where in the ping loop you hit the button

[hollow spear]

And I'm not even using it against the "spec too easy" crowd

[azure thicket]

so uh should we just guidon during pre pull

[hollow spear]

That's skill expression/difficulty for the completely wrong reasons

[glacial lintel]

!Ss

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Thats what sub is all about these days

[hollow spear]

Unfortunately

[swift tinsel]

Idk I'm annoyed that its a technical limitation on blizz's end and their own system cannot afford the tools to play around it

or accommodate it

i.e. allow us to track its buff

[chilly kite]

I bet if hunter or mage had this issue it would be hot fixed day of

[red flame]

When WA’s literally let us do it before

[lilac stag]

soon as we can track TFD I’m sure the trinket buffs will get added

[red flame]

I miss my 30+ WA’s for tracking buffs / debuffs

[swift tinsel]

its asinine to me the base cdm can't track trinket or potion buffs

[red flame]

Yea it’s honestly so dumb

[azure thicket]

tracking units in range and no shadowcraft refund noise

[red flame]

I always had WA’s for shit like trinket buffs & racial buffs

[chilly kite]

what did they actually even accomplish with getting rid of WA

[red flame]

Like Entropic Embrace

[swift tinsel]

and you can't work around it by having them on an action bar bc that purely tracks its cooldown

[red flame]

When I was VE

[chilly kite]

the rwf and top guilds litterly just made addons to do exactly the same fkin thing WA did

[swift tinsel]

tbf WA could still exist they just chose not to

they saw the initial scorched earth move by blizz and peaced out

[chilly kite]

there is still WA its just WA with extra steps

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/strauss-strauss-zelnick-take2-take2-interactive-rockstar-games-gif-11097428678390150769

[swift tinsel]

whereas other devs iterated as blizz walked everything back

[hazy breach]

The exact same thing everybody told them was gonna happen

Literally nothing besides annoying the fuck out of everyone

[swift tinsel]

^^^^^

it literally was such a stupid move on blizz's part

[chilly kite]

all it did was push the top of the top guilds who can afford to pay people to make addons, way ahead of everyone else.

[hazy breach]

But if im being serious you cant really do dynamic assignments and stuff

[chilly kite]

and make it so developers can force you to buy addons that do what weak auras did free

[lilac stag]

Well it allows RWF to monetize addons even more that used to be available via WA packs

[hazy breach]

But those bosses/mechanics were usually not designed in a fun way to begin with

Like if you had 3x the time to do fractillus walls manually

It still wouldnt be fun

[azure thicket]

i think they overdid it but they had a good reason: lack of confidence in their designs and sauces

https://tenor.com/view/skinner-out-of-touch-simpsons-gif-4964887

[hazy breach]

Just restricting addons from reading the chat wouldve accomplished almost the exact same thing

[swift tinsel]

instead of shoving everything into a Secret Box and slowly opening boxes as they realize it was a stupid move

[azure thicket]

i think even back in dragonflight people getting 20s was uncommon

[chilly kite]

can you imagine how long fract woulda taken if they had to do it natty with no WA

[lilac stag]

I still think this is thier basement starting point for Xbox

[wild vine]

Slowly opening boxes... So like puzzlebox?

[hazy breach]

Not long at all, you just have somebody with their camera turned around that would call it out everytime

Its not a hard fight, its just tedious

[azure thicket]

also stix bunkjunker is right there

[swift tinsel]

now we just have tedious fights

[azure thicket]

weakaura: the boss

[swift tinsel]

hey at least we have party defensives visible again

[chilly kite]

blizzard is just checked out for last titan, and working on wow 2 when they merge all the universes and the zerg and protoss invade. and we get the unreal 5.5 wow,sc crossover lol

i mean storyline wise where TF do you go after last titan

back to the horde vs the alliance BFA 2 or some dumb shit

[swift tinsel]

you fight the Homeowners Association

that's why housing was introduced

[toxic carbon]

Having Zerg and Toss invade would honestly be much better storywise than half the shite they have put out over the years

[north garnet]

They went too cosmic with the lore

[wild vine]

Well its their franchise, they can kinda do whatever really

[azure thicket]

they're gonna bring back arthas

[north garnet]

they sort of did in sl

[azure thicket]

yeah..

nah they probably know they want to make the world and lore smaller again

[north garnet]

Honestly i lowkey dont even consider SL cannon

subcontiously

even

[wicked fox]

Hello, is the Haste cap at 650-700 really that good? I've looked at best sub in M+ and raid and they don't seem to have that much haste, even without guidon

[wild vine]

People tend to use the gear they get

Also its not a cap

And you should just sim your gear

[azure thicket]

ran into a bm hunter with gaze of alnseer about an hour ago still gapped em but on that first AA pull the raw agi gave their dps about 50-100k over me with puzzle box/4set

but yeah sim yoself

[hazy breach]

In raid everybody has it

[clear aspen]

is it a good idea to craft a 285 ring this week? if im not getting another myth piece till GV next week?

[azure thicket]

i mean just look at last season our best trinkets were 18 stacks of agi and astral antenna with a bunch of main stat/crit

[hazy breach]

But yes in m+ some opt for ~150-200 haste instead and just go full on mastery. Its fine as its more aoe damage but it comes at a hefty ST price

[wintry heart]

I’d rather pump on bosses on m+ tbh

[north garnet]

yup

[wintry heart]

So I still go straight haste

[chilly kite]

tbh i am for it, i'd love to play some toss in an mmo

[wild vine]

Both you mean

[north garnet]

i play at around 700-750 haste

[wild vine]

Aoe damage is still fairly strong with the raid stats