subtlety

[spice matrix]

rocking puzzle or guidon?

[warm marlin]

and i have ephemeral bond for that healing increased

so i tank all the heal absorbs

yum

[warm marlin]

guidon have mythic

i will not submit to the enemy

[west bluff]

the place i feel most comfortable in paladins is the bench

[dusky yacht]

WTF.

OK.JPG?

(unbuffed 5min patch)

[dim fog]

!puzzlebox

[west bluff]

are you guys considering raid upgrades with Trickster ST instead of DS?

top gear/droptimizer

[dusky yacht]

I don't use DS

[sharp ravine]

I dont use DS

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-l36kU80xPf0ojG0Erg

[sharp ravine]

[nova dew]

hey guys, is there a breakpoint where we stop wanting mastery?

[dusky yacht]

Infinity

[vestal plover]

not sure what to pick here, should i be staying with puzzle/hook?

[dusky yacht]

From these I would keep using puzzle but you should sim prolly

[sharp ravine]

When sim say something is better

[west bluff]

Huh, idk about sample size but trickster is dominating vorasius and salhadaar on mythic. @vale pine is the pinned message about deathstalker still valid for those bosses?

[broken epoch]

Does anyone know of macro for shadowstrike and backstab without using a bonus bar?
My macro will use SS, but the fallback to BS never works. Ive tried like 3 versions

[west bluff]

they don't seem to be farming blobs on vorasius as well, just sectech splash

[vestal plover]

im really only playing M+ and tank is a beast so im enjoying the puzzle at the moment

[dusky yacht]

Same sim, guidon aswell, but deathstalker

So I guess it is better yes

[west bluff]

interesting, maybe in theory it's better but in practice not the same

[dusky yacht]

I think maybe it's like the pin says that you just end up losing the marks somehow on some fights or something

That's why I don't like deathstalker it's so weird

[west bluff]

there's like 8 deathstalkers in mythic vorasius top 100

[west bluff]

yeah i'm exclusively checking vorasius and salhadaar only, which were the intended fights for DS

[dusky yacht]

Oh

Yeah you're right, Fuu's pins do not include those fights

[west bluff]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/46?boss=3177&class=Rogue&spec=Subtlety

guess i'll try trickster and see how it goes

[dusky yacht]

And they're not even the top ones

I mean that could be just random or like everybody is too lazy to switch specs like that?

[west bluff]

yup, and the top ones didn't focus or aoe farm blobs at all

[hybrid beacon]

has cloak been bugging out for anyone else?

mine just isn't working right now

[sharp ravine]

wdym

Explain yourself

[dusky yacht]

Hasn't been bugging out, altho sometimes I get taken out of stealth in some m+ dungeons and I don't really know why or how

[hybrid beacon]

I'm still getting hit by casts and shit when i have cloak up

[dusky yacht]

All of them?

[west bluff]

honestly doubt that, early mythic kills are usually minmaxed

[sharp ravine]

Only phys dmg

[dusky yacht]

Yeah that's just weird right

Maybe we need to have this convo while Fuu is actually here

[short radish]

cloak is only a full immune for the first second

its a weak immune for the last 4 seconds

[dusky yacht]

What's also so weird to me is like

Deathstalker's hero talents like not even the mark are insanely good in my brain

Why is it not simply the best

Better than all the rest

[severe estuary]

What do i need to do to get the most out of my stat weight

[sharp ravine]

Use keybind in correct order mostly

[dusky yacht]

Kill the boss

[severe estuary]

lolol fair enough but i just thought id ask. just trying to min max where i can

[sharp ravine]

We have no idea what your question was tbh

[west bluff]

from what i've been told, besides 600-700 haste, anything with crit and mast

[dusky yacht]

We barely found out about stealth

[severe estuary]

im trying to figure out what my stat weight should be if im min max

[sharp ravine]

Oh, sim yourself

[hybrid beacon]

is this actually true?

[short radish]

yes, I n ever spread misinformation here

[dusky yacht]

I mean it should always just be agi -> mastery >=haste (600-700) > crit > versa no?

[west bluff]

sort of? Sim tells me 450 haste whilst FAQ aims for 600-700. I think that's a valid question

[sharp ravine]

Dmg wise **

[short radish]

[sharp ravine]

COS still immune you of any status for the full duration

[short radish]

the tooltip sorta implies it

[west bluff]

can i request a min amount of haste on top gear or something of the sort?

[tidal solstice]

🤌

[west bluff]

Yeah exactly, i'm just pointing that simply simming isn't the best approach at the moment

[dusky yacht]

How much mastery is like 60ish%?

I'm only at 52% (respecced from assas last weekend)

[sharp ravine]

700 somthing i think

[west bluff]

723 is 58%

[dusky yacht]

Man I should get mythic neck crafted or something

I got too much crit

[short radish]

i somehow got too much mastery

[sharp ravine]

<That's fine if you are a raider more than a M+ enjoyer

[dusky yacht]

I'm kinda both

[short radish]

samesies

[sharp ravine]

Same

[short radish]

acutally no i'm a raid enjoyer, not a filthy p*sher like @tribal blade

[tribal blade]

LOL

i haven't even broken 3200

i'm washed

[short radish]

[sharp ravine]

Dude just summoned someone

[tribal blade]

i'm just doing keys with the boys

and trying my best not to solo queue

like a degen

[west bluff]

the prophet has been summoned

[short radish]

i unironically have some cope

sub is good this season in an uber meta comp

[mortal crag]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[tribal blade]

it could be good yeah

imagine if we get a raid buff

[short radish]

BM Monk
R Dru
Enh Sha
something war
Sub rogue

[tribal blade]

and useful utility

[short radish]

imagining

because there's so much trash in these dungeons

which we're good at killing

and our ST is honestly not terrible on bosses

definitely above average

[sharp ravine]

No Hunt look strange

[swift tinsel]

ye sub's def not bad in keys, probs not top meta comp material but still quite good

[tribal blade]

sub ST is pretty good in dungeons

[swift tinsel]

exodia ft sub would be really cool though but that'd take some extra love

[west bluff]

%dmg amp poison please. Or make shroud cast Cloak on everyone in the area

[short radish]

too overpowered to give to a class (they gave that to DKs)

sigh

now i made myself angry again

[west bluff]

DHs increase magic damage taken and have darkness right?

[short radish]

yes

[west bluff]

but god forbid a more useful raid buff to rogues

[short radish]

yes

[sharp ravine]

Rogue had one

[short radish]

rogue had darkness

[sharp ravine]

Crit buff a long time ago

[short radish]

did we acutally have crit buff or am i gaslamping myself with HAT

[sharp ravine]

Yes

[short radish]

nvm we did have it

warcraft wiki didnt have it for some reason

[swift tinsel]

oh man old HAT

[short radish]

good times man

[swift tinsel]

that and Tricks giving damage buff

[short radish]

that was gone in mop iirc

[west bluff]

i loved when rogues had execute through passives in legion

my beloved

[short radish]

#assassination has that

probably one of the few niches rogues still have

[west bluff]

oh didn't know it was still a thing, that's cool

[swift tinsel]

yeah rogue got a ton of old legendary powers as talents

[west bluff]

i stepped away from assa since blizzard stepped away as well

[swift tinsel]

same with azerite traits, coventant abilities, etc

[short radish]

goremaws bite my beloved

[swift tinsel]

at one point we had all four covenant abilities across all 3 specs

[swift tinsel]

poop soup

[short radish]

playing the last few weeks as SL

with double covenant

was pretty sick

[grizzled thorn]

Have anyone notice that the warcraftlogs and details in game have a huge difference ? Like for heal/dps there sometimes that there's 10k+ diff

[swift tinsel]

yeah details is a lil eh

[short radish]

depends who's logging and where

and also aug

[west bluff]

wasnt there a specific legendary that went giga bonkers for sub and every raid had like 10 rogues

[swift tinsel]

even if I'm the one logging and running details it'll be off

[short radish]

there was a period of time in BFA when we had an ability called shuriken combo where it'd make every enemy hit give +10% (up to 50%?) more damage to eviscerate

[swift tinsel]

we will never see legit funnel again as sub

[short radish]

this made it extremely powerful on a singular bos (zul) where the raid were stacking rogues like they are doing MM on paladins

[swift tinsel]

thanks Zuul

[swift tinsel]

and yet they barely got touched

[short radish]

blizzard considered this was way too strong for rogues to have and proceeded to delete that talent and ensure we had no way to do any form of funnel ever since then (more than 10 years ago)

[swift tinsel]

🎦

[short radish]

they also then proceeded to add funnel to multiple other classes since

[dusky yacht]

Guys I wanna sim this but it's not letting me

[short radish]

[short radish]

check crests/sparks on settings

[west bluff]

you prolly have to mark the gems down below

[dusky yacht]

hmm

[west bluff]

or check if you have the 80 crests needed, otherwise just increase it manually

[dusky yacht]

I have enough don't I

[sharp ravine]

What does the warning say ?

[sharp ravine]

Everything on this list done ?

[grizzled thorn]

aug don't appear in details ?

[dusky yacht]

Wait aug

[sharp ravine]

Dmg goes to player theyare buffing, not them

[west bluff]

you selected a neck with embellish @dusky yacht

[sharp ravine]

Logs give back buffed dmg tothem

[west bluff]

dont you have two embellishes already?

[dusky yacht]

Oh shit

Yeah I got bracers too

Crap.

[west bluff]

you should craft Masterwork Sin'dorei amulet

[dusky yacht]

Can I make that go to 285 without using embellish?

Sorry guys I'm a returning player this stuff is chinese to me

[sharp ravine]

yes

Crest used and Rank decide ilvl, not embellish

[dusky yacht]

Whut

This thing would only give me 80 more dps it says but that's crazy no?

This is what I got

[sharp ravine]

ss sim result quicly

OH

Haste

[west bluff]

that depends on which stats you've chosen, crit/haste as well?

[sharp ravine]

Yeah

[dusky yacht]

I want more mastery

[west bluff]

yeah it doesn't surprise me, like i said before the simulations couldn't care less about haste

[dusky yacht]

I mean I thought it would be better

[sharp ravine]

Sim give 0 value to the increase in haste

[dusky yacht]

lol

[west bluff]

even in practice being better

[dusky yacht]

That is so weird man

[sharp ravine]

But in reality it's better

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I'll just get this one

Cause I got 30% crit and 52% mastery

So obviously this one would be a huge improvement for me

[sharp ravine]

Don't get too much haste tho

As it's lost for us too after the cap

[dusky yacht]

I have some room there

[west bluff]

i mean Crit = Mastery doesn't mean both have to be close in value, take it more as that both are equally as good

[dusky yacht]

I have 800ish crit rating and 600ish mastery

[sharp ravine]

Just keep in your head that everyhting over 700 haste is lost

[dusky yacht]

I won't get to 700 with this

[sharp ravine]

Perfect then

[dusky yacht]

I have 593

So yeah I think this would be a good thing for me to get crafted

[sharp ravine]

Worst case, you can recraft with different stat as you go

[dusky yacht]

Yeah exactly and also I just got guidon right

So the loss of puzzle box might be helped with more mastery then too

Or at least in my head that makes sense

[sharp ravine]

Make sens math speaking too

[west bluff]

how do i make the top gear sim consider upgrading current gear versus crafting?

let's say i have 140 crests and i'm considering crafted ring and upgrading mythic chests. I tried adding the upgraded chest as well, but the outcome of the top gear is just "ring crafted" without even partially upgrading the chest

even if crafting is better, it should spend the rest of the crests in upgrading the chest, but it isn't doing this

[dusky yacht]

Maybe that means it's saying "Craft the ring and then do with the rest of the crests what you think is best?" or something?

[dusky yacht]

Right I saw that option

Maybe it's that

[sharp ravine]

Nvm I get what you say, you prob need to add the partially upgrade chest there too

[west bluff]

Yeah it doesn't compare like partially upgraded chest+crafted neck, guess i'll have to consider 3 upgrades on the chest

[dusky yacht]

Look at this beautiful thing

[sharp ravine]

Do better than that

[limpid hemlock]

How many target do we need before we use black powder

[west bluff]

that is some +18 stuff

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq

tldr : 3+

[quaint ravine]

could anyone tell me why some logs show 3 sec tech categories and others show 2?

[gilded thistle]

sims are telling me to sacrifice a fuckload of haste and mastery for a bunch of crit. Should I just ignore it or am I actually way too low on crit?

[dusky yacht]

Man you're such a freak lmao

How dare you be lucky like that smh

Bro can literally retire

[sharp ravine]

GM is nice to me

[sharp ravine]

I think it's veiltouched but might have memory leak

[dusky yacht]

I mean your haste is prolly a bit too high (maybe) but like.. I think your mastery is crazy good

[gilded thistle]

I play on a bit higher latency so I figured the extra buffer would be nice

[sharp ravine]

@gilded thistle Secondary are multiplicative, the more you add mastery, the less value it have, that's why sim try to get them closer in rating
For haste #subtlety-faq , tldr: your are a human with delay between GCD, sim is not

[gilded thistle]

I had a feeling that would impact how it values haste yeah

[dusky yacht]

Wow so it's actually that it's so good it becomes less good?

[gilded thistle]

this is my alternative, maybe I shoul stick with this since it's a bit more balanced

[manic ice]

when doing Ethical Salhadaar prog, should i just be full swapping to the big adds till low then back to boss, not worrying about the small adds

[sharp ravine]

Sim both

[gilded thistle]

I have, it wants more crit

[sharp ravine]

You should blast little add then let range do their job

[gilded thistle]

this is what it's telling me to run

[warm marlin]

the 3 instances people apexed sectec at some point

[gilded thistle]

which will feel awful

[warm marlin]

the others did not

[green torrent]

I asked the same question a day ago, was told 2+

[warm marlin]

the 3rd low instance is the shadow clone apex hit

[warm marlin]

it depends on your mastery if you have pp talented

[dusky yacht]

[warm marlin]

you can hit mastery amounts that bp on 2 is good

evis better at lower mastery

[dusky yacht]

Did I accidentally myself into perfect stats or something

[sharp ravine]

Look like it

[green torrent]

Wowhead says bp @ 2+

[sharp ravine]

With pp yes, without no

in raid 3+, in m+ 2+
everything explained in #subtlety-faq

[dusky yacht]

That sucks now I have no excuse but my own skill

In other words I'm screwed

[gilded thistle]

i wonder if I can stack enough mastery to escape bench on vanguard

what if my bp hits for one billion huh?

still gonna sit me?

[sharp ravine]

Just play assa tbh

[tribal blade]

nice

[remote rapids]

So what is it that causes you to not get the second sectec cast in opener running guidon? Casting dance and tec too soon after trinket and blades? Like couple bosses I was good, then other bosses my second sectec would come up with 1-2s left on blades

[sharp ravine]

Yes

Guidon need 0.1-0.2 s to impact dance and sectech

[remote rapids]

Ok, will delay it a bit more. Felt like I was but kept not seeing my sectec up was annoying me. Thought I was waiting long enough

[sharp ravine]

Check on log

[warm marlin]

it is a random amount between 0 and 1s required to wait

if you want to always be safe you need to wait the full second

[remote rapids]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MnxqzyA3C8dBQW6Y?fight=33&type=casts&source=22&view=timeline

[sharp ravine]

What I do is that I use guidon right after my previous GCD

So I have no choice to wait 0.9s until sectec

[remote rapids]

So like that was over 0.2s but just rng wasn’t long enough?

[warm marlin]

with that delay you have about a 40% chance for it to work yes

[sharp ravine]

One way to do it is to macro your trinket on your ss

I mean a different bind than your ss obviously

[remote rapids]

Yeah wa almost thinking that like have an opener ss and a regular ss

[sharp ravine]

Same with backstab and you are good to go

[remote rapids]

Then go back to the blades dance sectec macro

[sharp ravine]

You are close to the next cap btw under guidon

Might be a good idea to get 50 more haste somewhere in your case

[knotty quail]

What is the best slot for my 3rd crafted item?

[sharp ravine]

Sim

[jovial garnet]

whats the haste breakpoints atm?

with/without guidon

[knotty quail]

I've already crafted my weapon and belt

[jovial garnet]

684 goddamn

[sharp ravine]

Long term, Back Wrist
Short Term, Leg Head Shoulder Chest whatever give you the most agi

[knotty quail]

Sims recommend items that drop my Haste to 13%. Should I ignore the sim and get more Haste for better gameplay feel?

[sharp ravine]

yes

[knotty quail]

thx

I'm considering the Engineering bracers to fix my low Haste issue. Is stacking Haste on that slot better than a balanced 3rd craft?

[cosmic prairie]

have u considered agility training

running up and down the stairs improves haste

[knotty quail]

I tried, but my stamina bar is too low.

@sharp ravine Are these numbers based on my raw unbuffed rating, or with the Phial active?

[sharp ravine]

phial active

[knotty quail]

thx Would crafting the Engineering leather bracers (pure Haste) be the best way to reach the next Haste breakpoint without wasting too many stats on other gear?

[sharp ravine]

Depend on your stats, I prefer to play with ring and neck to get my secondary fixed

And I don't have any 3rd craft and would prob not have a 3rd one at all

So do as you want but sim yourself before

[knotty quail]

https://tenor.com/view/minji-thumbs-up-nodding-민지-따봉-끄덕-gif-8084670966430966894

[oak beacon]

What 3rd craft is okay?
Have belt / wep rn

[naive summit]

Quick q for the subelty team, For the paladins fight, should we be using black powder unless trickster Evis proc at all times, instead of going ST burst with AOE

Also, should be using shuriken for CP gen or backstab - Still trying to figure out tf people are doing high, but stuck on figuring it out.

Thanks in advance.

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq

Full explanation in the faq

[naive summit]

Understandable, but just getting head around it. Im normally the Outlaw rogue in my guild, but been forced by raid council to sub dps till 2nd rogue;'s recruited.

[sharp ravine]

Then faq is perfect, it have both answer you want with details

For paladins fight, you will need to adapt generator and spender as you can have 1 , 2 or 3 target

[naive summit]

IE -if dual stacked and using Potent Powder, worth doing backstabs till the trio are there, and potent powdering

[sharp ravine]

I just sent everyhting on CD

While using correct generator spender

And it worked well

[jade oasis]

going potent powder and doing a lot of shuriken storm -> bp

shadowstrike in dance when only hitting 2

[sharp ravine]

even 3

always ss in dance on paladin

[naive summit]

Cool, so i was doing something super weird by alternating to SS with a lot of BP, so it's not just me going crazy on my attempts.

Thanks for the clearup on that one

was going through my raid logs and was like, tf am i going wrong , now i can explain it to my officers why it seems a lil low xD

[sharp ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-cat-memes-meme-loading-gif-11112458141014207448

[jade oasis]

this is correct

idk why i thought guide said 2

[dusky yacht]

Guys what's the command again for the 4p + guidon AA optimisation

[sharp ravine]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[dusky yacht]

Ty

Do you always go for AA up during non-sectec finishers in dance? Or only in this case?

Only when supercharged, I mean

[sharp ravine]

Always

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/filmeditor-hot-nervous-l4FATJpd4LWgeruTK

Roger that

I'm at 92% of sim dps

[sharp ravine]

That's clean !

[dusky yacht]

But I need to do more practice because when I'm raiding I don't have nearly as much focus on everything obviously

[sharp ravine]

Best scenario you don't have to think about which spell to use

And just do mech

[dusky yacht]

Trying to get to that

[sharp ravine]

But for that you need to put time IG

Only way

[dusky yacht]

Tbh the always AA up rule helps, don't need to look at shit then, just wait for the black aura thing and send it

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I mean I respecced last sunday, so .. 4-5 days ago

Still got a lotta work to do

[sharp ravine]

As long as you understand that most of the time on opener after dance sectec you have to do 2 ss

It's fine

[dusky yacht]

This may be a mistake I am making

[sharp ravine]

After opener and for next blade, if you enter blade with AA you don't even have to think about it as every supercharged is going to be on AA

[dusky yacht]

[sharp ravine]

And most of the time you can chill 2-3s while waiting blade and get to 5stack

Just wait to be at 65+ energy when you use backstab to proc AA before blade

taht way you still have enough energy to sectec next GCD

Simple rule that help a lot to focus on other thing than AA opti

While doing AA opti

[dusky yacht]

Another mistake I'm making, I wasn't properly tracking my shadow techs I think

Dear lord yeah this is big

[sharp ravine]

Not to do but if you REALLY want to have AA before going into blade, you can vanish ss 3-4second before blade is up

Chill until 5 stack of technique backstab then burst

[dusky yacht]

I think that's the most important one, I was kinda doing the AA right already instinctively most of the time, just felt better, but this is what was missing

I need to remember to actually chill for the shadow techs

I was just sending it every time I had anything basically

[sharp ravine]

Hard to stay still, i get it

[dusky yacht]

It's a kind of newbie-to-the-spec/game type mistake of having anxiety over control, it's good intention but doesn't reward

I am gonna beat the devourer DH on our DPS meters one day I swear

Apparently I did beat him on Imperator wtf

[sharp ravine]

Nice !

[dusky yacht]

But then some other fights he's completely wrecking me though

[sharp ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/hydrogen-bomb-vs-baby-gif-16389939655051520745

[lapis ridge]

Are the wowhead builds up to date?

[sharp ravine]

COLLAPSING STAR vs black powder

[jovial garnet]

ok what the fuck is nullaeus on ??

[sharp ravine]

Should be

[jovial garnet]

mechanics are simple to understand and deal with and adds are fine

but the fact that valeera up and fucking dies all the time and the boss hits for a third of your health every second

AND WHILE ITS CASTING?

HELLO?

[dusky yacht]

How did the devs look at devourer dhs and think "these guys need our help" btw

https://giphy.com/gifs/drunk-raccoon-L6JsnQOgrKMTK

[plush crescent]

is 660 haste unbuffed good? should I aim for some more

[sharp ravine]

Thats fine

Prob can even go lower as you play and wheck logs that you are not missing GCD

[tribal blade]

first tier for the spec, therefore needs to be OP

not surprising

it's a really bad look if you introduce a new spec and nobody plays it because it's dogwater

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[sharp ravine]

[keen dome]

[spiral steeple]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rXfbjMxF9zyPn8cH?fight=4&type=summary

[dusky yacht]

Makes sense I guess

[dusky yacht]

Good morning our glorious leader

93.5% of 5 min sim dps on dummy

[sharp ravine]

[grand summit]

What is the bad reaction between SecTec and Ancient Arts?

[sharp ravine]

Just doesn't work

[dusky yacht]

But then why don't we sectec before dance?

[grand summit]

can I have a little more detail

like no clones?

[dusky yacht]

Wait cause it doesn't matter

I'm dumb

[foggy estuary]

Rogue bis this week, most hit like wet noodle on bosses. Poggers

[vale pine]

thats true

patchwerk is the only generally agreed fight style

[fallow rampart]

We are not using sectec with Apex up?

[grand summit]

According to wow head, no

[frozen robin]

whats the deal with 4 piece with guidon fuu is saying to wait until 2 second on sec tec cd to super charge it. For me these leaves about 5 seconds of blades with no dance and some leftover dance time otuside of blades. is that correct?

[sharp ravine]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[sharp ravine]

Exact opposite of what you said

[frozen robin]

i was going off this

[sharp ravine]

Without 4p and guidon, you want to supercharge your second sectec in blade

[frozen robin]

but that might be more up to date

[sharp ravine]

With guidon and 4p you don't

[frozen robin]

ohhhhhh

im stupid

[vale pine]

thats a very minor optimization over the above

[frozen robin]

ok sweet thanks for the response

[vale pine]

still requires both criteria to be forfilled

[frozen robin]

so just send second dance at 8 second on blades and dont supercharge the second sectec

yea i have the trinket and 4 piece

[sharp ravine]

Then yes

[fallow rampart]

If we have good haste and we can use like that without guidon, we do it?

[tropic field]

Do you need guidon in order to get a 2nd sec tech during SB?

[fallow rampart]

Or idk something

[sharp ravine]

@vale pine Does the "supercharge your second sectec in blade" even appear in faq ?

[vale pine]

no

we switched the optimization over to the simpler one

i just kept it in the tooltip, as its technically slightly better

[tropic field]

Fuu do you have a youtube guide or do you know someone who has done a good youtube guide?

[vale pine]

tho the diffrence is almost negliably small

[sharp ravine]

Same for cold blood optimization ?

[vale pine]

this was me in our 30 man heroic last week

[frozen robin]

1fps gaming

[tropic field]

Damn, well im mostly looking for a rotation clearifacation cuz i think im pretty much lost right now haha

Clearification*

[vale pine]

but to answer your question, i don't follow youtube wow guide content, so i don't actually know who does guides

[alpine wraith]

i do make guides but written ones are very available

[vale pine]

i can't rly do youtube, my game lags like hell already without recording the screen ^^

[tropic field]

I started using macros and feels like my dmg went down

[vale pine]

which macro

towards how to learn

[alpine wraith]

we dont really use that many macros apart from the sec tech one

[vale pine]

if you feel lost

[tropic field]

I use SD + sec tech macro and one with SB + pots in it

Not at the computer atm so cant link them

[fallow rampart]

@vale pine we doing guidon rules without him if we have good stats on haste?

[tropic field]

I think my biggest issue is that macro made me lose control of the charges of SD so i sometimes miss to use it properly

[vale pine]

The best thing you can do is.

• ask a question, it is the best tool you have, if you don't feel comfortable asking in public, my dm's are open
• Read guides, they are all good, and any detail you don't understand or are unsure about is easily solved by the point above
  If you want to improve, a great way is to look at a log, Lorrgs is an excellent website, which shows you in a timeline view when top logs use cooldowns.
  If you really want to min/max, discussions in here often are about just that. Participating or asking about a specific boss (or optimizatiosn) is a good way to learn.

[dusky yacht]

Now because I'm waiting on 5 shadow tech stacks before sectec dance I seem to be losing dps

I must be doing something wrong somewhere

[vale pine]

you don't wait for stacks

thats why

[sharp ravine]

Not before sectec dance

Before blade

[vale pine]

if you wait durinng dance

[dusky yacht]

OH

[vale pine]

you lose casts

but its maybe even easier to understand if you combine optimizations

you will not use finishers roughly 3 sec before secret comes off cd

this is also because it takes time to build combo points

[tropic field]

Any chance i can send my log when i started using the macros?

[grand summit]

Does First Dance affect the guidon optimization?

[vale pine]

so by doing so you can use dance + secret

just as secret comes off cd

but by doing so, you also stack up some sht

[dusky yacht]

Okay thanks guys I think I'm starting to understand but wtf I didn't realise there was this much to it lmao

[vale pine]

which means, you should, for most parts not have sht problems

also one thing to mention

the optimization was, last time i checked,a around 0.5% dps gain

so don't beat yourself up over a small optimization

[grand summit]

Hey, mr or mrs. fuu, does taking first dance change when we hit the 2nd dance in our opener with guidon 4pc

[dusky yacht]

And if you're messing up your normal priorities as a result of trying to optimise you might lose dps

[sharp ravine]

How to get rank one without my 0.5% :c

[dusky yacht]

That makes sense

Still, I wanna try and get it right at least in practice

[vale pine]

its a nice "plus", but try to use cooldowns efficiently on a fight before you add extra mental load

[vale pine]

you typically don't play both together, but you would likely already cover a lot of blade time with the first dance use

[grand summit]

https://tenor.com/view/writing-notes-checklist-spongebob-squarepants-gif-16129592

this is my first season so im also very chuddy right now and trying to figure this out

[vale pine]

on a funny note

i haven't taken my puzzle box out of the vault yet

if i don't select it, i shurely don't need to play this

cough lovely to use trinket

[jovial garnet]

dogshit design for a solo boss
white hit reliant?
really?

[sharp ravine]

Just loot a Myth guidon

[vale pine]

haha true

[sharp ravine]

And take a socket in vault

[grand summit]

so I wanna reclairfy again, if there is a world where you have like 0 shadow tech stacks, you should get like 5 of em before casting blade?

[vale pine]

congrats

[short radish]

More like 1 to 3

[jovial garnet]

thanks
i hated it

[vale pine]

the best one so far was s3 tww

[tropic field]

@vale pine i PMd you if thats okey

[vale pine]

i kinda wish you had the option to re-play old ones

[sharp ravine]

No, it make AA opti easier if you enter Blade with AA up, but going withouit is fine, just know that you probably gonna need 2 ss aftter sectec

[jovial garnet]

gobfather was okay
ky'veza was great

[vale pine]

yes, i get a lot of dm's every day

[tropic field]

Yeah i can imagine, sorry about that

[vale pine]

oh no, don't worry

[fallow rampart]

Sry for reasking still not understanding about guidon, do we use his rules even without him?

[vale pine]

no

[dusky yacht]

[vale pine]

we only use the guidon optimization if we have both the trinket and the 4 set

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[vale pine]

if you don' have both

just play regular

[dusky yacht]

That's 97% man holy shit my best score yet

[fallow rampart]

Ye but I’m reading and we can line up like that with good haste or I miss something?

[dusky yacht]

I think I messed up my last guidon too

[vale pine]

you probably can do during bloodlust

[dusky yacht]

I got anxious watching the timer near 5min lmao

[fallow rampart]

I have 700 haste now

[vale pine]

nice, time to invest in mastery and crit

[fallow rampart]

Well ig I don’t need overthinking it and use rules only with guidon )

[sharp ravine]

@fallow rampart Check your Sectec Cooldown, if its 19+ then you can't fit 2 in one blade, that's all

[dusky yacht]

There is a big difference between getting guidon right and getting it wrong

[fallow rampart]

I have 19

[dusky yacht]

I try and take the time to make sure it goes off

Longest second of my life but seems to be well worth

[fallow rampart]

After that I confused even more ahaha

[full spade]

Is there ever a part of your ST CD sequencing where youre up on Sec Tech without having a dance? Or if that happens you sequenced wrong?

Also kind of noticed in random situation having like 8s of blades left with sectech up in 8s, is it worth ripping dance early to fit in the dance, or hold for the supercharged sectech without it landing in blades?

[dusky yacht]

Wait what if it says 19 sec

I'm getting it off I think

Barely but I am

[sharp ravine]

if it say 19 and you are a sim, you can fit 2 in one blade

[dusky yacht]

I mean I got 17 ms and 144 fps

[sharp ravine]

Us, human will have either to sacrifice a GCD to fit sectec, OR have the correct number of GCD in blade but not the 2nd sectec

[dusky yacht]

Maybe I'm missing a GCD earlier and cheating my way into it

[marble ledge]

I can't for the life of me figure out which of the three possible rings I can craft would be best

[fallow rampart]

But if we have 11.1 first dance during, if we use second after 1 sec maybe , we can hit second sectec in blades or?

[full spade]

like in this situation, dance just ended, do you send the second dance and fit sec tech in the end, or do you hold dance so you can supercharge sec tech?

[dusky yacht]

wtf

Is this in a 5min dummy run because I never end up in that situation

[sharp ravine]

Perfect world aka sim, yes

[sharp ravine]

Supercharge sec tec

[fallow rampart]

But that’s not hard, like just using second dance after 1 sec first off

[sharp ravine]

You need to have less than a 0.x delay over 21GCD in a fight

Taht's hard mate

[dusky yacht]

I am really confused tho cause I don't have issues fitting my second sectec into it

[sharp ravine]

Guidon, your sec tec doenst have 19s at all

It's more like 15

[dusky yacht]

OH

Yeah it's 17 for me

Lmao

[sharp ravine]

Use it and look at sectec cd

[dusky yacht]

So that's why I can do it, okay that makes sense

Wait so you guys were saying shadow blades with double dance and no guidon doing two sectecs in blades?

That's crazy

[sharp ravine]

Sim can do it and it's prob opti, Fuu can answer that
But in a fight there's no way

Or you have to lose a GCD somewhere, either before 2nd dance or before 2nd sectec

[alpine wraith]

yea now we recommend you just do the sait for 8 secs of blades to begin dance

instead of trying to snipe supercharger sec tech

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I was doing that my last run, does give more space

More comfy

[sharp ravine]

And opti for you

As you have guidon

[fallow rampart]

Ah wait, guidon for snipe supercharged second sectec in blades ?

[sharp ravine]

Opposiite

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[full spade]

this actually answers my question above

[dusky yacht]

I am so happy I got guidon from helping my friend lvl his DH lmao. I had champ puzzlebox and I was so tired of that goddamned thing.
Guidon dropped for our guild in heroic last night but I hadn't changed my reserve loot from hungering victory (don't need it heroic) to guidon, so DK guildie got it.

And then I get champ guidon from the stupid timewalking weekly.

[full spade]

so specifically with light you rip the dance at 8s left of blades even tho no sec tech supercharge

[sharp ravine]

Opti is to supercharge sectec

[fallow rampart]

If we don’t have guidon we just use second dance instantly after first one?

[full spade]

thats not what it says with guidon above

"As Trickster: With Midnight Season 1 4 piece + Light Company Guidon you want your second to cover the last 8 seconds of , this means that you wont supercharge but thats okay in this instance. Just be sure to cast it immediately on cooldown.,"

[marble ledge]

Are there any other Numbing Poison users in M+? Idk I feel like one bad cast going off can be a lot worse than +3% damage

[sharp ravine]

You have guidon ?

[full spade]

yeah

[sharp ravine]

then yes 8sec left on blade and no supercharge

[full spade]

smhmh

[fallow rampart]

Without him just second dance after first?

[sharp ravine]

@full spade "up on Sec Tech without having a dance" But that won't happen anyway

[sharp ravine]

Yes as you will have a dance back for sectec

[full spade]

yeahb thats what i figured, at some point on salhadaar prog tonight i was fat on sec tech and no dance and i was like

wtf

think i did cd pool before my blades or something

so i had a late dance misaligned with my sec tech cd in the blades and just played bad

[dusky yacht]

Guys Perdition's Blades or Chromatically Tempered Swords for tmog? Important question

[fallow rampart]

I have back 1 sec after blades off

So I use 2 dances, 1 sectec in blades and supercharged sectec after blades like in 1 sec

[sharp ravine]

Nah

That's 2 different thing

You either dance back to back

OR dance with 8sec left on blade IF Guidon and 4p

OR dance to get supercharged sectec at the end of blade

[fallow rampart]

Aaah

[sharp ravine]

Last one is a 0.5% opti and as I understand doesnt have to be yuour focus

[fallow rampart]

So we not lost a lot if second dance not during in blades and we hold it for snipe supercharged second sectec in blades ye?

[sharp ravine]

Thats on dummy obviously, in fight there's reason to prefer to supercharge sectec OR dance back to back etc

[sharp ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/james-franco-wait-what-wut-wtf-nani-gif-25479769

[fallow rampart]

Well if im without guidon i just back to back dance in blades / use second dance for supercharged sectec in blades ye?

[sharp ravine]

You chose one

[fallow rampart]

Easily back to back ig

[robust dust]

Hey. I have 17,5% haste. In Guide it says I should at least have 18% but sim says that I should not recraft to haste mastery cuz Veit mastery sims 0,5% higher. Should I Trust the sim?

[sharp ravine]

#subtlety-faq

[fallow rampart]

I’m overthinking because a lot of time in keys same I’lvl mages or warlocks better dps

[fallow rampart]

Do u always full cp supercharged sectec or 6+?

[sharp ravine]

try to full

Have to 6+ sometime

[fallow rampart]

Normally it’s should be like that mages and warlocks better dps in keys? Or that’s my fault

[sharp ravine]

That's you

[fallow rampart]

Streamers on rogues can do more, but me can’t mostly times, it’s gear issue or idk

[cosmic prairie]

dps in keys is 99% based on the pulls your tanks do and if people are cc'ing or if u have to waste extra globals stunning/etc and raw ilvl gap

[sharp ravine]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/47?dataset=95

[hoary dawn]

that chart is not for damage
it's for points

[fallow rampart]

He should be same always?

[sharp ravine]

More or less yes

[fallow rampart]

Ig I know 1 reason why I lost dps, maybe im wrong , I use sectec and cdg with apex up, its lost dps ?

[cosmic prairie]

i miss secret tech + apex all the time

[fallow bramble]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[cosmic prairie]

its a damage loss for sure but u losing to other classes in keys is mostly for reasons out of your control

[fallow rampart]

but i cant see in guides when writed we not using sectec in apex up

[mossy spruce]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ZDfdJhsQNComRfQTbQaDZ so, why is raidbots telling me to toss my 4-set for crafted legs?

[sharp ravine]

You have a 5set

c:

[mossy spruce]

oh shit i do, im blind on both eyes apparently

[flat bloom]

Is it smart to craft legs because it’s way more stats than wrists? Because getting the BIS Legs on Mythic is very unlikely.

[sharp ravine]

Short term yes

Long term no

[marble ledge]

I don't trust a sim's ability to measure the strength of First Dance

[alpine wraith]

yea i crafted legs it is fine

[solar glen]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Light Company Guidon (haste on use) Optimization:
When? - Only with the Season 1 4-set bonus and Guidon.
How? - During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back.
Why? - This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[azure thicket]

but i like when puzzle box goes brr on trash :[

[olive canyon]

seems like puzzle was the play in m+

[cosmic prairie]

why did u set it to 2mins

[azure thicket]

ye that's the vibe im getting maybe raid where fights are longer it's better for overall

or uh keys with lots of long sustained pulls like a nexus point with a goat tank or something

just did one at the speed limit in a 12 and i dunno was feeling noodlely with all the small packs

gaze of alnseer issue too probably

[fallow rampart]

guys how we can supercharge our finishers when apex up if we use dances only with sectec?

[cosmic prairie]

its something that should be happening fairly often

its not something u really have to think abt

[tribal blade]

you will guaranteed have at least 1 supercharger you can apex on

so it will be dance>sectec>strike>strike>evis/bp if apex doesn't proc

[fallow bramble]

feels like you almost everytime get an evisc on supercharged and apex,

[tribal blade]

it should happen naturally most of the time yeah

it'll be more common to not happen on the 2nd dance in blades it seems

[fallow bramble]

if you lucky you get a sectech into it

[tribal blade]

i find myself force proccing apex there all the time

[dire timber]

Gentlemen; Let's say I'm just about to click Evis. Is there a way too track if my next click is another Evis or a CP builder?

[short radish]

huh

[tribal blade]

you just look at your CPs

[short radish]

are we talking about how the brain sends inputs to muscles and receives input from eyes?

[fallow bramble]

[tribal blade]

if you have 0 CP builder

[dire timber]

Or do I just have to wait and see if all my CP refills automatically after my Evis

[tribal blade]

if you have 6-7 CP finisher

welcome to rogue

[tribal blade]

you can track apex

in tracked buffs

[dire timber]

Thanks!

[cold citrus]

black bars bruh

[tribal blade]

also visual yeah

i also have a sound cue

so i don't need the visual

[dire timber]

Nice. Is that an addon?

[tribal blade]

nah base CDM

[fallow rampart]

If i get black bars, and i have sectec, i should use any finisher before sectec?

[dire timber]

Right. Thanks!

[tribal blade]

maybe i should remove the flash

it's useless

i don't look at that icon

[fallow rampart]

or its doesnt matter

[tribal blade]

no just send sectec

[exotic geyser]

Can someoone help to choose 3rd crafted item. I'm craching my head with sims and cannot configure them properly. Offhand 285 would give more than crafted pants 285?

[tribal blade]

@short radish after hitting the enrage a few times my RL wanted more boss dam

so i did boss dam

[short radish]

based

[tribal blade]

best way to make yourself more desirable this tier haha

be ethical

[craggy onyx]

Which addon can add alerts on auras ?!

[tribal blade]

it's just the base cool down manager

[craggy onyx]

Oh really ?

[tribal blade]

go here in options

[craggy onyx]

Yea I use cdm with bcdm addon

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[alpine wraith]

yea need to put the he man song

[tribal blade]

i don't really use many addons so i don't know how they interact with each other

i'm guessing you can set it up in the base CDM and it'll translate over

but no idea tbh

[azure thicket]

is 1% dps gain in the sim margin of robot error?

it's telling me to go under 18% for platinum star band etc

[sudden quarry]

Good morning my fellow benched dagger users

[tribal blade]

more like ~0.2% is margin of error

[azure thicket]

mm

[keen dome]

Posion toggle would be a gameplay enhancement.. BLIZZARD.

[tribal blade]

I KNOW

[craggy onyx]

Ty

[tribal blade]

we were mid pull in a magisters terrace and i stood there like a monkey changing from instant to wound lol

[azure thicket]

sim prefers 24% crit over 68% mastery i believe it

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-hunk-resident-evil-hunk-resident-evil-idk-gif-3652485711966810813

[keen dome]

I would like to stop running Nexus Point.

but I have had one of the rings drop so i can't stop now

[shadow lance]

Glad I'm done with that ring

[craggy onyx]

These Nexus rings are annoying

😅

[fleet acorn]

crafted pants haste mastery

[alpine wraith]

i managed to complete the set

big

then today crafted this

[keen dome]

if I get them I can cata boots which gives me a transmog

[fallow nimbus]

I cata boots because i capped out on charges

[stoic granite]

hi! is anyone able to log review? I feel like my dps is very low.

[keen dome]

I need the mast/haster ring to do it...

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, i need the other one

[wild vine]

Thought about crafting legs

Seems to be a decent idea considering the sources of good legs

[keen dome]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

ye i also crafted legs

[supple barn]

I got lucky on legs I’m thinking about crafting neck

I still have 6/6 champ neck at 270ilvl lol

I think rep neck 🙁

[wild vine]

Isnt the pvp neck really good?

Which would be next week iirc

[supple barn]

Hmm I will look ty

[wild vine]

With the weekly quest 4/4

[supple barn]

Maybe I craft back or ring then

Idk I hate the fear of spending crests lol

[wild vine]

Cant do much wrong this time around

Tbf

[alpine wraith]

it is this week

isnt it?+

[wild vine]

Not sure, didnt check.

Also wanted to check for a catch up on alts

[tribal blade]

it's available this week

i got it

i guided every team i was in to victory

"cap LH and WW, fight on the flags, don't fight on the roads, win"

[wild vine]

Ah nice. Now only the catch up question is left. Iirc you could have week 1 and week 2 quest at the same time

For example

[tribal blade]

yes you can do the catch up

for me i started it on week 2

did 2 bgs and it completed both week 1 and 2 for some reason

a bunch of people have had that happen, seems like a bug

then i did week 3 and 4 this week and had to do 4 bgs to complete it all

[wild vine]

Alright, guess I'ma do that on an alt aswell

[fallow rampart]

guys how much diff if we optimization apex talent?

[tribal blade]

~1% or so iirc

[steel zinc]

1%

whole spec plays a bit different in st if you have light company trinket

Then apex opti and thats basically it

[tribal blade]

as far as sub optimizations go this one is not bad

[steel zinc]

And in M+ you want as much of uptime on dance and if possible empowered sectechs as possible

[tribal blade]

pretty straight forward

[steel zinc]

Yeah its nothing degen tbh and apex stuff is basically if you have empowered CP and not sectech you just strike again to get apex up (you have so many s stacks anyways it rarely misses)

[tribal blade]

yeah it seems complicated on paper

but play it a bunch and it's not really

[azure thicket]

yeah much better with puzzlebox rn from a 12 saron

[tame terrace]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[dreamy latch]

I have 5/5 sparks for the season - is there a way for me to find out where i am missing the 6th spark from?

[azure thicket]

don't think 6th is out just yet

[dreamy latch]

thought we could craft 3rd item this weke

[azure thicket]

i have 2 crafted and 2 sparks

dagger and belt

[fair cobalt]

i have crafted 3 items so there is a 6th available or ive cheated the system lol

[mossy chasm]

do you use puzzlebox before the pull or right after the first shadowstrike before sending sblades? 2 seconds is really long ._.

[fair cobalt]

i usually shadowstrike in then box then blast

[keen dome]

Have you done the World Tour quest from Lor'themar?

It awards a one time per character spark.

[mossy chasm]

since it cant be used in stealth is really awkward if someone prepulls

[wild vine]

I just strike pb cds

[fallow rampart]

guys what u can reccomend in keys, should i hold blades on next pack if currently pack should dying fast or something like thatt?

[fair cobalt]

you never want to hold blades for too long, want as many casts as possible in a dungeon, i would say to use it if you can get full value out of it, or if the next pack is a big pull you know youll need it for or a boss youll want it on feel free to save

dont know if there is a one size fits all answer to your question. my save or send moments change depending on who im running with

[dark roost]

are there pumpers in there that can assist me with reviewing my own logs?

not sure if its gear im missing or something simpler

[upbeat cradle]

6th spark was from midnight world tour

Asking you to do the weekly event of each area

[alpine wraith]

yea first one is not counted

[neon wave]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

Are we able to blades/box before a key starts?

Always forget what carries over

[vale pine]

you want to use dance once before key start

and can blades

[fathom adder]

use dance for two supercharged cps

[vale osprey]

Great

I've been dancing just wanted to check about others 🙂

[olive canyon]

does blades also reset just before dungeon start?

[alpine wraith]

yea

puzzlebox also works but both blades and it dont last that long

so even on dungeons where you can insta blast you get like 3 or 4 sec

[short radish]

@tribal blade

[tribal blade]

bro i wasn't in for him

and 2 guidons dropped

i wanted to cry

[short radish]

i have seen

0 guidons

[tribal blade]

eternal pain and suffering

1 day you'll get to bask in the glory of no cast time trinket

[karmic harbor]

do I go sin to just slam boss damage

[short radish]

no

[tribal blade]

sub is supposed to be mid but i assume it's because the biggest parsers are padding as much as possible

[short radish]

adds need to die

[olive canyon]

saw one as a trial

went to a dk

[karmic harbor]

i basically ignore adds in my guild

[tribal blade]

i think the only boss where it would actually make a lot of sense to go sin is paladins

[olive canyon]

i cried

[karmic harbor]

dunno. feels like we (my guild) have so much aoe

[tribal blade]

that's fair though, it's their bis

[short radish]

yes, sub has good aoe

[olive canyon]

Yeh its fair

but i was so far ahead of everyone but that trial curse

[tribal blade]

but fuck him anyways lol

[tribal blade]

LOL i feel that

[wheat edge]

2nd boss and chimeras feels like assa bosses

[tribal blade]

could be yeah

[olive canyon]

I sort of want to just go deathstalker on 2nd boss

[karmic harbor]

chimera im full single target boss and big add

[olive canyon]

but you donbt send mark on that big add right? as you are trying to zerg chim

[summer peak]

is there a way in logs to see if im using my Lights company too early or on time to get the benifit with my cds?

[tribal blade]

you have to move the mark

or you're doing 0 dps

[karmic harbor]

maybe see when you stop using shadowstrike

[olive canyon]

i have not raided as assa in a while

you can move mark?

[tribal blade]

you basically lose the entire hero tree if you don't have mark active on what you're hitting

[wheat edge]

assa does not play ds

[olive canyon]

oh you mean deathstalker

[tribal blade]

yeah sin plays FB right now

[olive canyon]

i was talking about sending the assasination cd on the big add or not

[tribal blade]

OH lol

[wheat edge]

and atleast when you are going down second you get cds on boss all the time

[tribal blade]

no idea what sin does

[olive canyon]

yeh fair

[wheat edge]

idk if going down first changes anything

[tribal blade]

i guess it depends what group you're in

[olive canyon]

My mongo dps brain is used to going down second

[lilac stag]

Less damage than everything else

[tribal blade]

sin cannot DM the 1st add set in either group

[tribal blade]

hahahaha

[olive canyon]

so i imagine thats about 1.40 which means cds come up just as we pop the big add back up

[tribal blade]

there it is

[wheat edge]

sin cds on pull, kingsbane during first consume I think and then gets full 2nd cds on during 2nd consume and it finishes before he flies away

[lilac stag]

Watching exile go assa for all of one pull was amazing. Entire raid laughed.

[olive canyon]

might try it out, as we are probably doing that tonight

[tribal blade]

can't wait for RWF to be over

so we can possibly get tuned

[wheat edge]

Sub nerfs due to pvp inc

[tribal blade]

more likely watch sin get mega buffed and become the raid spec

[lilac stag]

“Why is there less dam on egg this time? oh exile assa”

[north schooner]

check how long the dance lasted

[karmic harbor]

how is echo so close to liquid, did they do less splits?

[olive canyon]

i think they did far fewer splits

[summer peak]

my dance is up for 7 seconds by the looks of it. so i guess im not doing it early enough, when i look at Annsie´s log . they ahve it for 9 seconds while using LIGHTS COMPANY

so iguess im too early.

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade imagine if almost any other spec was allowed to just sit on boss. The high assa boss dmg wouldn’t look so high.

rogue just awful right now. enjoy atrophic and soaking

[tribal blade]

lol true

[karmic harbor]

what's the best racial rn

[lilac stag]

Apparently other specs can continue to be tuned during RWF

[olive canyon]

there is always hope tomorrow night

one last ray of hope

[alpine wraith]

panda and mechagnome are the best but not by much

[sacred jewel]

on reset day (tuesday) liquid was doing splits the entire day
echo started doing pulls on reset day in EU (wednesday) means 1 day less of splits

[lilac stag]

Hope they just delete rogue

[steady sail]

If i have coup up can I use the first shadowdance supercharge on coup and the second on sec tech? Hitting dummies that looks like a dps gain over some 5 minute tests

[keen dome]

Sorry they can't, I won't log off.

[lilac stag]

You already got your rogue tank spec Dream. We do tank dps, bring a raid debuff and soak mechanics. Literally 3rd tank right now. You can log off.

[keen holly]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[keen dome]

But I can't leap into an AA first pull and instantly die

it's not the same

[karmic harbor]

is rogue really that bad

doesn't feel that bad

[lilac stag]

Press evasion

[keen dome]

It's fine. It just doesn't bring anything of major value (I.e., a raid buff. Atro is strong but DR isn't perceived the same way damage gains are) and we lack useful utility in keys like stops and stuff. Also our damage isn't strong enough to justify us over those flaws.

Youc an still do almost all content in the game without issue.

[vale osprey]

The 👏 fuckin 👏 adds 👏 need 👏 to 👏 die

[tribal blade]

doesn't feel so bad because if you're not in a top tier guild you'll be doing good dmg

and we're good in keys atm

but the fact that rogue is getting sat in RWF is very telling

about our state

[karmic harbor]

only feels awful on the trio boss

[tribal blade]

i haven't even looked at the march prog, are they running rogue again

[karmic harbor]

perfecto is in on the phoenix boss rn

[tribal blade]

honestly sad

now blizz won't do anything

[olive canyon]

they are running a rogue for poison

[sudden quarry]

Hell yeah, I could play a boss after 3 benched bosses again

[olive canyon]

does far too much dmg

[lilac stag]

raid design + spec tuning = limited melee. Rogue is in on phoenix for atrophic & cloak / cheat

[storm umbra]

immune

[void ocean]

Exile was as well

but they never show up on the meters so...

[tribal blade]

lol ok good

[lilac stag]

liquid running 3 melee

[tribal blade]

i honestly am not looking for tuning, i want bigger changes

[short radish]

louder for the people at the back

[boreal narwhal]

Noob question I guess but what is the indicator that you have a supercharged combo point?

[short radish]

[void ocean]

i mean, nobody stops u from wishing 😄

[short radish]

NO GUIDON

NO DAGGER

[keen dome]

sorry I can't hear you I'm a ranged so I'm standing at the maximum possible distance to the boss (in another raid instance)

[short radish]

NO BITCHES

[vale osprey]

The audacity of my guilds (good) classes telling me I wouldn't even be on the meter in Salhadar if I wasn't padding adds...

[karmic harbor]

buy atrocity ui

[keen dome]

In the base UI, it's your combo points becoming blue.

[karmic harbor]

I'm kinda slamming rn

[short radish]

i fucking hate that every single class is allowed to do damage to adds

but for some reason whenever sub rogue does damage to adds

its pad

[karmic harbor]

still no idea how to sim gear changes with the 700 haste thing

[boreal narwhal]

Ah thanks

[short radish]

i swear i never ever hear another class go "oh theyre padding"

[keen dome]

I.e, they look like this

[tribal blade]

it's only ever about sub

and BP

[sudden quarry]

Yesterdays guidon was given to our tank. That’s how bad we are 😂

[tribal blade]

because of SL

[keen dome]

The first two combies are successfully watching anime and will do bigger damage.

[lilac stag]

Blame assa and boss dmg spec

[tribal blade]

it's crazy we're still carrying that around from 3 expacs ago

[vale osprey]

Warriors bladestorm with their dick out on adds and they get "oh it's just the lil warrior doing his bestest :))))"

[karmic harbor]

people think sub is still zul mode

[vale osprey]

We get "Padding dickhead not taking you to last 4 bosses"

[tribal blade]

yeah they don't realize if you just storm>evis you completely tank your dps

[vale osprey]

😉

[alpine wraith]

it wasnt even that good on boss dmg on zul btw the diff was we didnt kill the fodder

so it was a big fight mechanic L

that the adds didnt explode in like 10 secs or something

basically warlock and mage did more but they also deleted adds

[lilac stag]

You may want to reword this

[short radish]

i swear this is another sin from zul that we are paying for still

because if sub rogue doesnt "funnel"

we're padding

[keen dome]

All our sins can be traced back to that patch.

[lilac stag]

actually fucking broken boss dmg

[keen dome]

Zul really was a powerful foe

[short radish]

okay

@tribal blade is your thread still active

gonna kill saladbar

[karmic harbor]

i guess the people in my guild were trolling but still

[short radish]

then start my write up (actually)

[tribal blade]

haha yes

[lilac stag]

The sub rogue was in blue gear destroying boss while other specs fully geared in mythic gear couldn’t keep up

[vale osprey]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19?boss=2145&metric=bossdps&page=1 xdd

[karmic harbor]

im doing the boss dps of 3 non rogues

[alpine wraith]

yea kinda but also it was die to bugs that got patched on

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/this-is-unacceptable/2281465/65

[vale osprey]

Yeah same! (hpriest, disc priest, rsham)

[tribal blade]

it hit 2.6k views SHEEEEESH