”legion baby” is already unc status
#subtlety
shrewd lantern
shrewd lantern
christ if you played since tbc
jovial garnet
swift tinsel
Summer 2007 baby
shrewd lantern
more like 19
shrewd lantern
I tried playing this “combat” spec in mop classic once
and god damn this spec was easy
much more than outlaw
glass jackal
Combat was awesome. I miss it.
swift tinsel
we just had a classic andy join our retail guild and he was gkicked after one day lmao
had a full on meltdown and was whispering people on a level 1
manic glen
asking for world buffs was he?
swift tinsel
I wasn't in the group with him but they were running some 10-11's and apparently he was talking shit about everyone
real good way to build rapport with your new guildmates
shrewd lantern
we just had a classic andy join our retail guild and he was gkicked after one da...
I had a guy say it was “retail andy” behavior to mass pull in mop dungeons
as if people didnt gigapull in mop already
hello cms
swift tinsel
yeah he was complaining about pulls too when the healer said it was his first 11 and wasn't sure if he could handle them yet
shrewd lantern
haptics you dont understand the insane complexity of cc mob 1 pull mobs 2 and 3
then take a 5 minute coffee break
and do it again
fleet sluice
Guys quick one hopefully, with the 700 haste breakpoint for trickster, how many globals is a perfect shadow dance considered to be?
tribal blade
see what happens if you complain enough
tribal blade
we need to up our complain game
swift tinsel
remember when they nerfed unholy bc it was too good then totally walked it back and then some
native zodiac
im still surprised they havent walked those sub nerfs back from heroic week
native zodiac
i reckon if that didnt happen we would have been "fine" on paladins etc
swift tinsel
and they don't check forums bc that means they may come across a Mafic or Xaethron post
tribal blade
we would have been playable yeah
crystal quiver
do we reckon asa or sub is better on myth vangs?
brisk onyx
and they don't check forums bc that means they may come across a Mafic or Xaethr...
Mafic is the legendary 
🏄♂️
elfin berry
how massive is tier for sub ?
short radish
massive
sharp ravine
how massive is tier for sub ?
2p 9% 4p 14%
elfin berry
thanks big dawg
ionic star
which is the best trinket for mythic+?
cold citrus
which is the best trinket for mythic+?
box or guidon
swift tinsel
man I hate last boss in algethar
spice matrix
guys on nk i just hit the orbs and we killed it so fast
I played way too ethical as well
sharp ravine
which is the best trinket for mythic+?
Box for aoe, guidon for mono
So Depend on what you neeed and if potent powder is spec
short radish
man I hate last boss in algethar
AA is such a tight timer as well
and boss fucks sucks because you have to think and count to 3
swift tinsel
so glad they're nerfing the pool duration
sharp ravine
And you have 3sec to move when you have 3stack
So you cant instant kill whole group
ionic star
So Depend on what you neeed and if potent powder is spec
But the box is 2 mins cd, and should be use every 3mins? Is it still better than guidon for aoe?
jagged hamlet
But the box is 2 mins cd, and should be use every 3mins? Is it still better than...
even with high mastery, it sims better at heroic over mythic guidon in dslice
i still run guidon knowing im losing some in aoe but gaining it back on bosses and having it up every blades.
jagged hamlet
even with high mastery, it sims better at heroic over mythic guidon in dslice
by a small amount tbh if it was massive id run box
ionic star
even with high mastery, it sims better at heroic over mythic guidon in dslice
So the box is used every 3mins with blades
jagged hamlet
right
ionic star
Ok
lilac stag
and boss fucks sucks because you have to think and count to 3
we only count to 2 here
digital hornet
anyone in here progging mythic paladins? Sub is turbo ass in 3 target it seems
brazen mesa
!up
wicked joltBOT
rough birch
how often do yall use dance by itself?
dusky tundra
So the box is used every 3mins with blades
u can also use blades every 2 minutes with box, depending on situation
dreamy root
anyone in here progging mythic paladins? Sub is turbo ass in 3 target it seems
Rog is turbo ass on that fight tbh.
lucid jackal
anyone in here progging mythic paladins? Sub is turbo ass in 3 target it seems
Play sin or outlaw
or bench
sharp ravine
anyone in here progging mythic paladins? Sub is turbo ass in 3 target it seems
Bench is the best spec for this fight
spare totem
tight fjord
Are you guys ever sstorm/evisc if there's a prio target or just following normal spell priorities for 2/3+ target and then evisc when it's a solo mob left in the pack
I feel like it's not a big enough difference and we should always BP like normal
umbral frost
how can i get better value out of evasion? ill press it during fixates but im not sure when else
sharp ravine
Vorasius Spike
tribal crypt
in 2 target am i supposed to be backstabbing? or shuriken storm. i know im supposed to be shadowstriking during dance but what about outside of it? whats my builder?
sharp ravine
Inside :ShadowDance: to build combo points: Cast :ShadowStrike: with 3 or less targets, otherwise :ShurikenStorm:.
Outside :ShadowDance: to build combo points: Cast :Backstab: with 1 target, otherwise :ShurikenStorm:.
tribal crypt
damn so backstab is actually piss useless outside single target
sharp ravine
tribal crypt
my dumbass, i checked pins in here didnt even think about a faq channel my fault gang
outer summit
i'm not using puzzle box, channeling does not spark joy!
torn tide
i'm not using puzzle box, channeling does not spark joy!
the mastery is so much that im just sucking it up and using it
spiral steeple
the mastery is so much that im just sucking it up and using it
The rage that I feel when a tank cuts the pull timer short and I don't get to restealth after popping the box is real
shrewd lantern
my 1 shadowstrike
spiral steeple
My rotation is ruined
ember turret
Sims telling me haste is lowest value and vers is highest value even though im only at 550 haste, is that right?
sharp ravine
"Why does my sim seem to stop at like 600-650 haste instead of 650-700 like the guides say?"
onyx parcel
can you use a 1h as offhand effectively as sub?
i generally play outlaw and i am pretty sure you can still dagger offahnd there, but wasnt sure about the reverse
vagrant sinew
can you use a 1h as offhand effectively as sub?
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
vagrant sinew
the oh is your least imporant slot atleast
so just a random veteran dagger good enough
onyx parcel
thats fair. I have a champ for th slwo anyway, i was just gonna craft a weapon adn was gonna do 1h if it would work for both, but now i will do dagger since it will work for both\
eager latch
seeing some sub rogues run planned execution over the attack speed talent
is that bait or good in certain dungeons?
simmed less for me in dslice
short radish
you know i wonder if the OH being the "least value item" is still a thing
since our autos hit for double they were doing before
wheat edge
you know i wonder if the OH being the "least value item" is still a thing
its probably a bit better than in tww but a 10 ilvl jump in OH only sims as a 0.3% increase
vale pine
its probably a bit better than in tww but a 10 ilvl jump in OH only sims as a 0....
offhand is still one of the weakest slots to upgrade
potent summit
Do we get another cata charge this week ?
jagged hamlet
Do we get another cata charge this week ?
i believe so
plush crescent
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
stiff stirrup
Is veiled touch simming higher than fatality? M+
short radish
have you tried running a sim for yourself comparing?
vale pine
Do we get another cata charge this week ?
we do
but if you have 4p
you essentially swim in charges
(if you didn't know, you get charges back for doing content randomly after you completed your 4p)
potent summit
Thank You. No I don’t. I will get 4 p Tomorrow
shrewd lantern
yeah i got 4 charges
vale pine
i got down from 5 to 4 yesterday
potent summit
Ya I know got chim trinket Hero in vault but no Set. And only 1 set Piece in raid. So im at 3 atm
potent summit
But I still went 3241 Rating with 3 Set 😂
vale pine
i used the catalyst on a veteran piece to get 4p
potent summit
So rogue is lost but not that lost
vale pine
still having 3 of the 5 tier slots on veteran
after ~50-55 m+ dungeons
and i think still have like 6 or 7 slots i can get upgrades in from m+
potent summit
I kinda still top the meters with only 3 tier in 15+ keys
potent summit
I kinda see me being allways beeing top in ST Bosses in high keys
That’s the nice thing with sub. Your m+ talents don’t let you lose much ST
vale pine
single target falls off if the bosses last longer
potent summit
Like other classes
potent summit
Ya I mean at 15 keys I’m still fine and most likely top with 70k around
vale pine
and some players will perform noticably worse
so bosses and packs take forever
also some of our tanks rly pull super low count
like 2-3 mobs at the time
vale pine
the reason i bring it up is, both highlighted some shortcommings
fiery fog
after ~50-55 m+ dungeons
I had the same problem
As soon as a dh friend went with our group he started dropping the tset slots and traded them to me
vale pine
problem is
the meta classes are currently not leather
so most groups we run don't have much traders
fiery fog
Isnt at least devourer meta
vale pine
devourer is busted
potent summit
I still think we could use a buff. But why in the world do they give us the aoe blind back this late in 12.05 and not now ?
vale pine
but we only have 2 dh's in the guild
fiery fog
Was thinking on creating my first non rogue for devourer
It just looks too cool ngl
vale pine
i think the main appeal of it is damage atm
we did a random key the other day, was luckily only a 10
and one of our dps left after the first pull
fiery fog
I just like the looks of the blue colours and firing spirit bombs at mobs
vale pine
(nothing went wrong, he just left)
but devourerer + rogue makes a good dps combo^^
was timed in the end
as 4 man
XD
fiery fog
The difference between pug and premade group is so huge its almost a different game
potent summit
Dev is super strong in high keys cause he needs to get his engine starter
fiery fog
Rogue aoe pads everything
Devourer does the same while obliterating a single mob
vale pine
but in part because of how strong devourerer is, if palyed decently well
wheat edge
and one of our dps left after the first pull
lowkey that just gives the dev time to ramp on packs 
potent summit
Before that, dev is kinda meh
vale pine
lowkey that just gives the dev time to ramp on packs <:kekw:1217165081251414168>
yep
but its a hero class atm
so we will see how it is once that status fades
fiery fog
Before that, dev is kinda meh
You mean pull #1 unless he dies?
vale pine
in the next xpac
wheat edge
I am a big havoc enjoyer but tried dev in a key yesterday, buttons feel great to press but I still prefer melee over caster so probably wont play it much
havoc is really really fun also so hard to compete with it imo
narrow shadow
You play devourer basically in melee range anyways
potent summit
Kinda if the key is too low and everything dies in seconds dev is doing nothing
potent summit
In high keys they obliterate
vale pine
while still playing mostly like a melee
narrow shadow
It's like Dragonflight melee
vale pine
In high keys they obliterate
ye, they are quite busted
wheat edge
well spamming a cast is still different to spamming chaos strike 
vale pine
but thats most new classes
remember avoker?
or preservation evoker season 1 df?
new classes/specs typically egt overtuned asf
for 1-2 tiers
potent summit
When I have 130-140k overall in a 15 key. Dev has around 150-160
fiery fog
They need to be for ppl to play it ngl
If its ass ppl remember it as being ass and are less likely to play it i guess
potent summit
But I like them in my group no complaints 😂
fiery fog
I kept up with a dev friend in keys but those were only 10s
vale pine
one of our weaknesses is the dependency on enh
fiery fog
Sub in keys isnt as bad as it seems
vale pine
or well shaman, not enh specifically
wtt is such a big dps increase
*wft, which is now skyfury
potent summit
Sub is strong damage wise. But weak for buffs or utility
vale pine
subtlety can pad good
because secret is immidiate damage
most others need a bit of time to ramp
fiery fog
The reason why its pretty decent for mythic dragons btw
upper narwhal
Devourer pads like Sub but better, it just takes like 30 seconds to ramp
potent summit
And you can cheap shot around and so on. What we need is our aoe blind back
hollow spear
The funny thing with dev is that mobs sometimes just disappear at the end of a pack
vale pine
think dev ha a funy problem
hollow spear
1 mio hp? Blink and you miss it.
vale pine
where it sometimes can pull random mobs
fiery fog
Im just not sure if its worth to hold sectec for every orb spawn on mythic dragons
Without it my damage feels so low compared to some other logs
But after checking their kills they just didnt have as much orb damage in their raid compared to our raid group
Cant even pad ethically
vale pine
it lines up decently well usually
i haven't had to delay secret that much when we played it
what i wonder tho is
fiery fog
Some orbs i needed to hold like ~5 seconds
fiery fog
I feel like beloren might just be pure st for us
vale pine
because i can't get a read on how it works from the dungeon journal
fiery fog
Lura is reading like a 10 min + fight
vale pine
it seems like a st heavy fight to me
i am sure the fight will be overtuned asf
after how easy the rest is
fiery fog
They buffed it btw
fiery fog
Quite heavily even
shrewd lantern
is there footage of it yet
vale pine
makes it rly hard for them to make the boss fair
frigid prawn
(if you didn't know, you get charges back for doing content randomly after you c...
So I don't have to min max and can just upgrade my champ/veteran to set and afterwards the hc/mythic gear cuz we don't have to wait 2 weeks again? 😮
fiery fog
vale pine
because if its fair tuned
vale pine
So I don't have to min max and can just upgrade my champ/veteran to set and afte...
yes
well
assuming you do content
i got 5 charges so far
after using my charges
frigid prawn
i got 5 charges so far
Only from m+ spam?
fiery fog
I somehow managed to craft the belt with hero crests without knowing i did that
It feels super bad wasting 80 hero crests
upper narwhal
I’ve done about 50 keys and got 3 bonus charges :/
vale pine
I’ve done about 50 keys and got 3 bonus charges :/
i am honest
unless you get very lucky with mythic gear
probably more than you ever need
upper narwhal
Ye I’m hero everywhere it’s all I wanted them for
upper narwhal
Ow
keen dome
i have 2 on veteran
high5, same.
upper narwhal
I guess I still need a neck actually
keen dome
I need to craft a belt but I'm waiting for reset.
Just in case the vault goes "haha all belts"
fiery fog
I guess I still need a neck actually
The rep neck is better than every m+ neck lmao
vale pine
haha fair
i mean, i hoped for more lot from m+
but it is what it is
i guess i could spam skyreach
shy scarab
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
as it has the highest chance to give me sth i need
fiery fog
Im just happy i have everything from m+ already (until i swap any item and need to replace stuff to stay at the haste breakpoint
)
keen dome
The pvp is free and very low effort for a good statted hero one so pretty nice.
vale pine
my gf will be happy
she wants a neck and m+ has no good one
and all she needs is one neck and one specific ring from m+
keen dome
Nice
keen dome
I wanna farm the rings from Nexus but therein lies madness.
vale pine
(doing the same amount of keys, together)
fiery fog
Imo the pit ring is really good
vale pine
pit also has nice legs
skyreach has a lot of tier slots and generally good loot
its the best dungeon to run if you need everything
vale pine
!up
wicked joltBOT
keen dome
I just need neck, rings, belt, OH and then guidon slot on hero and I'm done.
keen dome
i kinda wish delve loot would scale to mythic
s a m e
fiery fog
This is what im running right now (thank the gods for a mythic guidon)
Though thats still some champ legs the pit legs are +0.0%
fossil forge
i kinda wish delve loot would scale to mythic
Pls no mandatory delving
vale pine
I just need neck, rings, belt, OH and then guidon slot on hero and I'm done.
Shoulders, back, chest, bracers(potentially), 2x rings
fiery fog
When can we actually use bonus rolls again?
vale pine
later patch
short radish
When can we actually use bonus rolls again?
.5 patch
fiery fog
Ive heard somewhere you can use those for mythic track items in m+
vale pine
its basically the new iteration of the coin system we had
so now you can bonusroll instead of buying gear
fiery fog
Skyreach will besuch a good dungeon for that tbh
dry plank
Shoulders, back, chest, bracers(potentially), 2x rings
Legs hands boots ring 🙂 after 50 dungs
short radish
is the bonus roll guaranteed?
fiery fog
Everything besides the trinket is good
One item per roll
You can use multiple
No duplicates when using multiple
I think
vale pine
Legs hands boots ring 🙂 after 50 dungs
haha, its wild
keen dome
When can we actually use bonus rolls again?
.5 Probably april
Well, in 4 weeks actually since that's when the thing ends
vale pine
i keep getting the same bad slots
btw. i would need belt and neck too
if i didn't craft belt
fiery fog
i keep getting the same bad slots
I also only dropped cloaks and wrists for some reason
fiery fog
Like out of 20 items 15 were one of those
vale pine
if i min/maxxed and did not craft belt
ivory orchid
I need Jesus for my gear luck to change
vale pine
would be even worse
vale pine
I also only dropped cloaks and wrists for some reason
ye, i keep getting either no loot
or something irrelevant
but it seems like, this might be related to the loot bugs people talked about
where you get only one slot
all the times
vale pine
the only way to fix i know of
is to restart your game a lot
so after every few keys
guess the alternative is to just run stacks, so people can trade you what you don't drop
tho i think its best to wait for vault + reclear
before continuing to spam m+
fiery fog
I pray for a mythic gaze in my vault
tulip light
I pray for a mythic gaze in my vault
we all do bro
vale pine
also doing the at least 1 delve to spawn in purple boy
sharp ravine
I don't, already had mine 
vale pine
so you get another free hero piece
btw. related
how is everyone feeling about the upgrade/crest chanegs
keen dome
I think it's really, really good.
sharp ravine
Feel the same tbh
vale pine
i am unsure if i like the new system
fiery fog
Its good but weird to min max
keen dome
Yeah, it is weird to minmax but it's in our favour most of the time.
sharp ravine
Not having to farm valorstone on alt is goated
fiery fog
Could have just made the first upgrade use the lower tier crests
vale pine
Yeah, it is weird to minmax but it's in our favour most of the time.
for me its like this
!up
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
these 2 missing rly make normal and in part heroic loot feel weak
keen dome
I think it has made the lower crests even more worthless. But it has solved norm/hero/myth issues and made Hero gear worthwhile. 20 per step, heroic raiders can 6/6 without having to farm myth. Huge improvement. THe 2/6 issue each step is weird, as said, but not bad.
keen dome
these 2 missing rly make normal and in part heroic loot feel weak
Yeah, I think that would actually be a huge improvement
vale pine
i know why it was changed, but getting your bis trinket before felt good in normal
now you are like
meh, cba before heroic
keen dome
I think having an extra ilevel step on each would be good. Bringing them closer to higher ilevel + higher parity with Myth which, outside of raiding, is very dripfed.
vale pine
and some of the delve and open world trinkets are quite good early on
keen dome
Most people get 1 Mythic item a week at most
fiery fog
Best trinket is the one that fears you
keen dome
Haha
I'm a big supporter of T11 delves should give myth vault
Who cares, more gear is gooder
muted kindle
that the one where the tooltip looks like a helmet?
keen dome
Yeah
muted kindle
yeah i was shocked how goodthat was too
fiery fog
I'm a big supporter of T11 delves should give myth vault
Wouldnt that just make it more forced to do delves since there would definitely be an item super good and you can only get it from delves
vale pine
Big desire to have an item to upgrade an items tier.
i discussed this with my gf too
i would love to have an vault option to set a gear to a specific track
i think it would also work if, like you mentioned
fiery fog
Like a 2 token item that upgrades an item to the next track
vale pine
only one track up
keen dome
Wouldnt that just make it more forced to do delves since there would definitely ...
Yeah, almost certainly but you could just not do them.
vale pine
could make it a fallback option
fiery fog
Yeah, almost certainly but you could just not do them.
And miss out on min max dps??? How dare you
vale pine
i mean
fiery fog
(It would be +0.2%)
keen dome
And miss out on min max dps??? How dare you
It's the ultimate issue with ANY design Blizz does.
And it's very funny.
Just don't! Don't do it! You can choose not to do it!
But I appreiciate how difficult and.. against the whole vibe it is.
Like. I'd be doing it for a small chance at an upgrade.
vale pine
I think having the option to upgrade any item to mythic (over time)
would open up some interesting min/max
keen dome
Yeah
vale pine
i don't mind if i need to wait 2 weeks
keen dome
I think it'd also be a fantastic bad luck protection system
vale pine
to get my bis worldquest trinket upgraded to mythic
fiery fog
The vault itself is a stupid system ngl
Gambling every week to get disappointed most of the time
vale pine
Gambling is a good baseline
if you want to keep people engaged
you see it in other genres a lot lately
vale pine
many popular games lean heavily into gambling
keen dome
I hate the vault but it's not a bad system. it's badly executed. Give us more control.
distant bison
what dgs should we use wound poison
fiery fog
Craving that dopamine kick from a small win (you lost 80% of your assets)
vale pine
i don't think you rly have any dungeon to use wound poison in
could use it in misara i guess for certain packs
shroud skips also seem fairly low this seaosn
idk if there is one i miss
fiery fog
could use it in misara i guess for certain packs
Also terrace has a big mob that heals
vale pine
academy you can utialize it decently well
vale pine
Also terrace has a big mob that heals
true
distant bison
aa mc mt then
fiery fog
Shroud skips are not really possible besides AA
Everywhere else they either have true sight or you need to do most packs to get to 100% (like nexus point)
keen dome
If I could redesign the vault: Let us select three slots to designate, one on each row, to be something specific. I.e., I want tier here, I want a trinket here, I want a weapon here. So I could put Weapon on the raid. And it can only roll weapon. Or trinket. Let us have some targetting on loot. This way you gurantee something useful or something specific and reduce the bullshit RNG while retaining the general design of the vault.
Also I'd just put in currency per week to straight buy loot because bad luck protection.
vale pine
Shroud skips are not really possible besides AA
Everywhere else they either hav...
skyreach and nexus point are way too railroaded
woeful wren
Shrouds just one of those abilities that either become too strong it's required or too niche pugs wont use it ever
fiery fog
I cant think of a skip for terrace, caverns, pit, seat
vale pine
I think dungeon design was just changed too much
fiery fog
You need to play every pack you come across
vale pine
you can use invis pots too
which kinda does the same
but dungeon design is less dynamic than it was in the past
woeful wren
The issue is. It's became that niche but we never gained anything from losing it
fiery fog
If only speed shroud wouldnt be a waste of a skill point
vale pine
i used speed shrould in some dungeons
junior ether
is there any spreadsheet or something where we can check cd of sectech based on haste?
vale pine
its not bad
especially if you don't do 13s+
can take it usually without risk
a 10 or 11 without the extra defensive power is fine
woeful wren
TFD seems quite dead too atm, few dungeons/pulls where ur getting that full reset (outside of using vanish which we need for a bunch of mob abilities)
vale pine
it rly depends on the tank
some of the fastest dungeons i did, ended up giving me quite a lot of resets
but if tanks and other dps
just start ignoring the 2-5% hp mob
and wait for 1 mob to be there before pulling the next pack
while you are the only one trying to kill it off
ye
tfd is terrible then
but e.g. in terrace
woeful wren
I think in the end I might end up just playing DS + guidon when this change comes through to move mark
vale pine
even if you have terrible tanks like this
the dungeon by design gives a lot of restealths
woeful wren
guidon is kinda weird with TFD anyway cos it extends ur dance to a point u prob don't get 2 uses of the haste
vale pine
i don't like guidon
i don't have a hc version yet
but the trinket use is annoying
and dancing seemingly forever is... not fun
keen dome
The delay is annoying but I like the speed
vale pine
wait, we use guidon between dances?
you use it before cooldowns
roughly 1 sec
cooldowns i mean blades + etc
anything lower than 1 sec has a potential to fail
keen dome
Gotta let the server tick update so Dance gets bonus duration.
vale pine
becuaase of how deepening updates
keen dome
I assume it's the server tick I could be talking nonsense.
woeful wren
ill generally use it with evi before dancing so ive got slice up and the global is usually enough to get deepening working
void ocean
i should defo stop halfassing guides
hazy lichen
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet
keen dome
it found some bonus damage
void ocean
that means no macroing?
keen dome
that means no macroing?
ye
void ocean
how much is that in Mississippies
keen dome
It's annoying. I doubt they fix it since it's a fundamental issue with how deepening updates
One mississippie
violet palm
its also in the pins
Can we track it with addons?
mighty citrus
its also in the pins
so bin it to bladeS?
void ocean
might just be Missis...
vale pine
you can bind it to blades
vale pine
Can we track it with addons?
technically yes, but actually hard to say
bsically, you would need to log the exact time you logged in
then try to calculate the server tick rate based on it
to have a rough estimate of the delay at the time you press the key
fiery fog
Youre better off just using it 1 second before dance and think it has to be like that
vale pine
might want to include latency
in your calculation
but you would essentially need to create visuals that look like a metronom or sth
so you see the delay in a somewhat real time presentation
bottom line is, thats way to complicated
so rather just use it 1 sec before dance/Blades
violet palm
I originally thought it's not tech delay, but we need to wait on flag animation
vale pine
its a problem of how the haste calculation gets updated
^^
haste extention calculation/value
other classes have this problem too
fiery fog
Just make it snapshot
vale pine
e.g. feral has a similar talent with damage instead of duration
fiery fog
In a way we are allowed to macro it*
vale pine
i try to visualize it
basically, you use the trinket
but the update of deepening can be at a certain time between the use and 1 sec
so it can be purple, green or orange in the picture
if you use your shadow dance before that, it won't get the updated duration
so if e.g. the update would be on 🟢 green
but you use dance on 🟣 purple
it would be baseline dance duration
but if the update is on 🟣 purple
and you use it on 🟢 green
mighty citrus
basically, you use the trinket
so this is the reason i sometimes have 8s of blades and sometimes kinda 6.x?
mighty citrus
fuck me
vale pine
you used dance too early
brazen stone
mighty citrus
then i need to unbind from blades because i press dance directly after
wheat edge
I just have guidon macrod to a strike so I know on next global I can press my blades dance tec macro
woeful wren
I mean u can use it with blades cos u only get 19 globals in blades anyway
mighty citrus
funny we have lot less buttons as sub now but need 20 different macros to make it work 😄
fiery fog
We need like 2 macros at most
fiery fog
Dance sectec is somewhat mandatory
vale pine
on trickster with secret, on deathstalker with storm
fiery fog
The rest is just nice to have
fossil forge
@vale pine r u a teacher by any chance
fiery fog
i tried the bp + coup macro
Its so ass on dragons
mighty citrus
i mean its fine
fossil forge
ur th,, goat at explaining
mighty citrus
its just unusual
fiery fog
You just stand there doing nothing trying to coup orbs not in range
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> r u a teacher by any chance
No, but i write guides and do theorycrafring for a long time now
fossil forge
How long r u doing wow guide
terse knoll
is there an easy explanation why my dance/shuriken macro works half the time?
vale pine
is there an easy explanation why my dance/shuriken macro works half the time?
yes
you use it during a global
terse knoll
fuk
vale pine
you can't use a builder or finisher while the global cooldown is running
terse knoll
yeah need to just chill i guess
vale pine
alternative would be
not enough energy
but you typically have enough energy when using dance
so its less likely
vale pine
Long ahh time
it goes hand in hand, you learn a lot of how spells behave rotationally/etc doing simulations and theorycrafting
and its always best to share information as openly as possible
woeful wren
@vale pine whats the DS storm first ability in dance about
vale pine
basically bar lag
this is btw. not how it worked in the past
but a change they made in df/tww to how it works
reguardless
vale pine
if you use shadow dance, and then shadow strike
the shaodw strike will always have a so slight delay
its roughly your ltency, mybe slightly more
fiery fog
is there an easy explanation why my dance/shuriken macro works half the time?
You dont need to stress every gcd outside of dance
You can just stop doing anything 1-2 gcd before going into dance to prevent this
vale pine
so at least ~0.1 sec
now, there is a slight design problem in the haste talent
which extends your shadow dance duration
instead of it only updating in full increments (so +1 sec, +2 sec, ...)
it updates in very small ones
so dance can be 0.1 sec longer, 0.2 sec longer,....
turns out, 0.1 sec is too low to reliably fit in one more spell
~0.4 is where you are just able to fit in one more
but this "just able" is very sensitive
and also easy for players to fuck up
so in order to reliably get the extra gcd
we use a macro
the delay does not allow us to use it with strike
becuase you would suddenly lose 0.1-0.2 of your extra time to the stance delay
terse knoll
yeah im only having it happen during blades
vale pine
storm, luckily is strong enough to be worth to use over it (it gets 100% crit, twice value in dance, etc... from talents)
terse knoll
when I hit the macro for my second dance during it
vale pine
so basically, this small delay between shadow dance and the server allowing us to use stealth abilities
is why we use the storm and secret macro
secret and storm don't have the problem, as you can use these spells outside of stealth
as hinted intially
austere plank
Could it be that when I have the free proc of Ancient Arts and I use Secret Technique, I lose combo points?
Is this intended?
vale pine
you shouldn't lose combo points
austere plank
I dont know, but it happens smt
fiery fog
!premed
wicked joltBOT
There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.
vale pine
as hinted intially
^ this could be fixed by making the haste extension only increase in 1 sec intervally
because it would become
"you have 0.x sec of extra time to use your last spell"
instead of
vale pine
trying to just fit one more
ohh
ye, the premed bug is annoying, you sadly can't do much about it
fiery fog
If you strike after the sectec you should still get the AA buff anyway
You can just treat it like having full CP basicly
Since youd want to have aa for the second supercharged finisher anyway
austere plank
Oh i see thanks
Do you use 4 macros for sd? Sd+shuriken, sd+evi, sd+st and sd+sb+st?
fiery fog
For trickster i use sectec+dance and a sectec+dance+blades macro
Ds is the same but with storm instead of sectec
wind cosmos
Whats the state of sub rn
vale pine
i use shift as mod if i don't want to use blades with dance
fiery fog
Mid
fallow bramble
why do we dance storm macro in DS?
jaunty heath
I though bp at two target is fake and than i see everyone bp at dwagons
tame hearth
Hej chatten, do we wanna proc apex on every supercharged point at pull when we have prestacked 2 supercharged cps so we start with 4 supercharged cps in the first dance of the fight?
austere plank
Whats the state of sub rn
Actually im benched lol
vale pine
tl;dr if you are lazy, because of bar lag
formal estuary
Aetherlume runners - single stat crafted mastery boots - seem pretty good? I don't see much discussion on them
wheat edge
trinket + strike (strike is where backstab is on stealth bar)
pot blades dance tech
dance tech
seperate trinket bind + blades dance tech no pot
wind cosmos
i want to play sp or sub, but idk what to choose
vale pine
Hej chatten, do we wanna proc apex on every supercharged point at pull when we h...
you want to use dance before pull in raids to have 2 extra supercharger points
fiery fog
I though bp at two target is fake and than i see everyone bp at dwagons
Bp and evis are basicly identical at 2 targets with potent powder
fallow bramble
oh thanks my bad
austere plank
trinket + strike (strike is where backstab is on stealth bar)
pot blades dance t...
Im using trinket on a separate keybind, casting it before sb sd st macro
ivory orchid
Is wow analyzer being updated for sub?
I would like to see what i can do better but don’t know enough about the spec to diagnose
austere plank
Post a log
vagrant pine
im overthinking this but i noticed sometimes i have 20ish secs until shadow blades is up and i have a shadow dance + secret tech to go, but if i send them i dont have a second dance for blades - should i just sit on dance to ensure i have 2 charges within the blades window or just always send it?
fiery fog
im overthinking this but i noticed sometimes i have 20ish secs until shadow blad...
That happens when you double dance without using sectec on the second dance and use a third after with sectec
uncut juniper
Do we always hold SD for sectec?
fiery fog
You only use dance with sectec yeah (unless youre in blades where you want sectec to be your second finisher)
uncut juniper
like when in huge aoe but sectec is on CD and you need to do dps now or adds will die when sectec comes back
vagrant pine
That happens when you double dance without using sectec on the second dance and ...
cant look ingame right now but wont this always happen during the opener? i dont think i have my second sectec up until my third dance comes around
tame hearth
you want to use dance before pull in raids to have 2 extra supercharger points
I see, but what i asked with those 2 extra supercharged combo points do we want to do the APEX OPTIMIZATION on ALL 3 points after one gets spent on sectec ?
fiery fog
cant look ingame right now but wont this always happen during the opener? i dont...
This happens when you dont have guidon or bloodlust
With it you can do the second dance in blades with sectec
Otherwise you dont have enough haste
ivory orchid
Do you also need 4 set?
vagrant pine
Ahh i see, thank you
fiery fog
Yeah 4 set is enabling it because of the 4 extra seconds
vagrant pine
is there anything i should be doing to prevent this happening for now, or is it literally just get the haste
fiery fog
On my alt rogue i have the same problem and i figured to just not dance twice in blades to not desync it (or rather just focus on sectec cd)
Idk if its correct though
uncut juniper
Yeah 4 set is enabling it because of the 4 extra seconds
Oh that’s why my guidon tech is so weird to use
I’m missing 4 set
ivory orchid
So if you don’t have guidon and the haste do you still dance after your first dance is complete since you are still in blades?
I figure that is better than backstabbing indef waiting for both to come up
vagrant pine
On my alt rogue i have the same problem and i figured to just not dance twice in...
i'll give it a go - at least it will feel better than doing nothing for 20 secs
ivory orchid
I think where I get confused is during first opener with lust no guidon or 4 set if I dance right after my previous dance sec tech isn’t up so I can’t supercharge it but it feels like a waste not dancing with blades up and dance off cd
fallow bramble
is it possible to reduce sec tec cd lower than 19 seconds?
fiery fog
You delay it to supercharge the sectec as second finisher
steady dune
Is it worth it to delay coup at all till after we dance to super charge it?
ivory orchid
You delay it to supercharge the sectec as second finisher
I have been at work for 13 hours so bear with me. So by delay do you mean 4th supercharged point due to pre charging?
fiery fog
No
You delay the second dance in blades
steady dune
If you have the 4p that is
fiery fog
And by delay i mean you wait for sectec to have ~2 sec cd
fiery fog
And then use dance
Finish
Get to full cp
Sectec
cosmic prairie
if u shadow dance before pull in raid does it give u the charge back ?
ivory orchid
If I burn two charges and it’s on cd for 15 secs does it reset on agro to two charges again?
fiery fog
On AA i like to have 2 charges before the key starts and use dance right after the key starts to have 4 charges on the big pull
ivory orchid
Like two shadow dances not supercharger
fiery fog
The cd doesnt reset
ivory orchid
The cd doesnt reset
Damn I feel bad making the raid wait because I am terrible at it
fiery fog
Just use it the second you get up
cosmic prairie
oh someone was saying to pre dance and i was so confused
fiery fog
By the time the pull timer starts you have dance at 2 charges
neon escarp
hey guys just had a question , on st am i always trying to proc AA on full cp within dance or during just lust or during lust and always with supercharge ? any insight would be helpful seeing a lot of mixed msgs among peers
ivory orchid
I probably got all day I am not in a serious guild. We talk about cheese sticks and meat balls more than wow
fiery fog
I just use it the second i press on release
ivory orchid
Is there a log of someone that has done a perfect opener during lust without guidon and 4 set lol. I will have to dig deep to find it
chilly dagger
Hey guys I got kind of a scenario rotational question:
Were in a dungeon, made a big BL aoe pull, I used Shadow Blades into Dance into Sec -> followed by the second Dance -> into again Dance+Sectec. So far so right I guess.
But what now, when Blades is on its cooldown. Next bigger pull, no blades up, I go into max cp -> dance - sectec ... black powder spam, do I use the next Dance again immediately when im running out of the first one? Or do I wait for sectec to come up again to use the dance again? I feel like, with this, im run into capping the 2 dance windows sometimes
fiery fog
Any top log on warcraftlogs probably
fiery fog
Hey guys I got kind of a scenario rotational question:
Were in a dungeon, made ...
Outside of blades you just wait for sectec to come up
Storm + bp it is
chilly dagger
so i just storm + bp (even though I have a Dance charge).. because its more than often, that sectec comes up with the 2nd dance charge and with that it feels, I wasted some precious dance window time?
fiery fog
You only use dance with sectec ready
chilly dagger
and I do that, because I dont want to waste time, where Sectec would be ready and I have no Dance charge to pair it with?
small vortex
it'll feel weird at first but you do all of your dmg in dance and you dont wanna desync dance + sectec if you can help it
chilly dagger
Would it be fine to use a dance (without sectec) if I know, next charge comes up 1sec before or at least in par with the sectec?
fiery fog
You want sectec to be on cd always basicly
fallow bramble
seems weird to play all around about sec tec and then dont skill the sec tec talent in DS
fiery fog
Thats why you play trickster
small vortex
trickster op
steady dune
#MakeNimbleFlurryGreatAgain
small vortex
#MakeNimbleFlurryGreatAgain
chilly dagger
Storm + bp it is
in single target it would be evis i guess?
neon escarp
what about proccing AA on full cp is that only a ST thing or do i proc AA on supercharger aoe finishers too ?
chilly dagger
Would it be fine to use a dance (without sectec) if I know, next charge comes up...
is this something to bother even? Or do I just macro Dance+Sectec and just wait for sectec CDs.. I am simply worrying about capping Dance charges while waiting for sectec xD
steady dune
the AA apex talent, it just allows us to immediately do another finisher at full combo points right? Or is there a damage amp on it?
weak flame
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
cosmic prairie
doesnt that technically make your finisher a combo point generator so your shadow clone then does it for 50% + gen 1 combo point stack thing
fiery fog
1k have or no have
That one small blob add that makes trickster be better immediately
fallow bramble
oki
neon escarp
**Apex talent optimization**:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Ye...
is this only a st rule or applies to aoe pull too ?
fiery fog
Up to 3 targets iirc
tribal vortex
I think it changed to be also in aoe but not 100% sure
cosmic prairie
if i gotta press it i press it but it def feels bad to hit it outside of shadow dance
vale pine
I see, but what i asked with those 2 extra supercharged combo points do we want ...
the apex optimization is specifically for the 2nd finisher in dance
maybe its easier to think of it like this
you will use your srecret first finisher
w/e if aa is up or not
but you can after that optimize depending
you will strike
and then if aa is not up, you can decide to get a bit of extra damage if you strike a 2nd time before your evis/bp
the optimization basically tries to optimize the non secret finisher with supercharger
barren haven
In m+ scenarios do we want to „fish“ for aa procs between packs instead of evis/bp on last pack?
tribal vortex
fuu I see you can gain the apex with Storm also. Still in aoe you use shadowstrike ?
vale pine
In m+ scenarios do we want to „fish“ for aa procs between packs instead of evis/...
the one thing you can optimize is using dance between packs or before downtime
e.g. in spire, you can often use dance after a boss dies because of the teleport time between the next pack
and don't rly lose anything
2 free supercharger points
atomic bobcat
if use macro
/use guidon
/sb
/dance
dance will gain the haste from the trinket? or better remove dance and press it later?
atomic bobcat
thanks
vale pine
the delay is up to 1 sec
so plan around that
(ideally just use it 1 sec before blades/dance)
atomic bobcat
before blades even? not to macro it with blades?
vale pine
you can macro it to blades
but it is probably elss efficient
^ i tried to explain it there earlier
fiery fog
Isnt it just better to use it as a seperate bind and macro blades to sectec and dance
hollow spear
I just have guidon macrod to a strike so I know on next global I can press my bl...
How do you handle that after your first window?
fiery fog
Or is there any problem with blades on dance and sectec
wheat edge
How do you handle that after your first window?
Well if I am not in stealth its just a regular trinket bind
hollow spear
Ok, so the "gcd trick" only works in the opener
I need to remember that I'm a musician and get the groove right
Play only 120 bpm music in the background
wheat edge
Yeah its a rythm game
drifting fable
do either plumes sim better for you guys than gaze at similar ilvl?
hollow spear
Sounds like you're going to miss all the dance extensions
fossil forge
hollow spear
With the right kind of music, I'll end up pressing dance before I press trinket
fossil forge
with the right music walking into the pack + drop combo blades up in 10 i send dance stech
leaden prairie
rate mine buddy
was on voracius kill
strike bugged out and that broke my entire brain
stray vector
hey fuu i saw your answer to the apex optimization for opener but i think you missunderstood what the person was asking you, and i also want to know:
if you have danced before the pull so now you have 2 supercharged cps ready, you do your opened you press your first dance you now have 4 SUPERCHARGED cps, you hit your sectec now you have 3, you use your shadowstrike, lets say you didnt proc your apex now you use another okay you send evisc/coup supecharged and with apex proc and now you are at full combo points again and you have 2 more supercharged combo points, do you
A) SS another time so you proc your apex again
B) send evisc since you are at full cps
same question for the last 4th supercharged combo point in that dance
jaunty heath
that seems like decent value zac
leaden prairie
ty cuh
jaunty heath
i give that opener 8/10
tight monolith
anyone faction changed lately if so did it cause any problems?
sharp seal
can we use sword offhand like before? RL asking me to switch from outlaw for prog boss
jaunty heath
i swear guidon is fake and those puzzlebox enjoyers gapping us for free
red vortex
can we use sword offhand like before? RL asking me to switch from outlaw for pro...
daggers
jaunty heath
dwagons are cool, first boss i feel like progressing
leaden prairie
i swear guidon is fake and those puzzlebox enjoyers gapping us for free
i mean
on saladar
you hold cds
for damage amp
and it so happen that you then have puzzle
for most of them
not saying puzzle is better on that boss
but its better for sure
jaunty heath
isnt the first amp too soon
jaunty heath
we didnt get other apm
leaden prairie
skill issue
jaunty heath
so i would using it only for one apm
leaden prairie
have raid do less damage buddy
jaunty heath
i was on orb duty
leaden prairie
as melee ?
jaunty heath
so i did not even blast boss
leaden prairie
i didnt touch a single orb
jaunty heath
i mean it dosnt matter if you send dance on orb or boss
in overall scheme
its not like i was holding for them
but not getting last apm hurted my dmg for sure 😄
that was kinda sad
waxen hawk
what should i craft if i want to play sub in raid and outlaw in m+?
jaunty heath
@leaden prairie this man know
atomic bobcat
last expan when i had cdg , the icon on my bars of evis would glow and change. now its not doing. is it just bartender bug? or just normal now
leaden prairie
<@352916297262301194> this man know
i havent crafted yet
solar silo
hey am i reading this sheet right that at 4pc trickster is stronger than deathstalker in ST? how accurate is that
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exJeu5eVe4bTmyg3WFx5PTxIWvDLi0j-WW-XWpGoG88/edit?gid=1489780415#gid=1489780415
leaden prairie
what should i craft if i want to play sub in raid and outlaw in m+?
get the fist from saladar attrib to you
i did that
its most value imo
jaunty heath
what about monkas
wheat edge
i did that
wtf socketed myth helm
leaden prairie
what about monkas
they craft double hander i think
its worth for crests anyway
so they always do
waxen hawk
get the fist from saladar attrib to you
Then should i craft dagger? boots?
waxen hawk
Dont even have the 246 with embellishment
leaden prairie
wtf socketed myth helm
ye got unlucky with loot in mythic
jaunty heath
havoc cant fist?
leaden prairie
only got weapon, socketed helm and bis belt
leaden prairie
havoc cant fist?
i dont think so + havoc soak dh weapons
final pecan
ok guys blizz isnt buffing us, time to stop pretending we are weak, we pump after reset
wheat edge
havoc can use fist wep
leaden prairie
also they all play devorer or whatever the thing is
jaunty heath
than its out havoc getting
leaden prairie
is that fist weapon
jaunty heath
he dont play dev for some reason
leaden prairie
havoc can use fist wep
i think
its cause
the fist weapoin
isnt intel
or smth
jaunty heath
and our fotm dev is not in raid
wheat edge
oh ye dev cant
leaden prairie
or smth like that
wheat edge
but caster is cringe! havoc is based
leaden prairie
so it doesnt make sense to give to havoc
jaunty heath
we have one trick havoc player
leaden prairie
sure then
wheat edge
well final boss is too far
dead tomorrow 
leaden prairie
you can wait to attrib the fist
or just dont give dh the fist
cause they dont deserve it
and have a 679 warglaive next boss
upper narwhal
got my last hero piece, stats are a bit fucked but i got the haste so yay
jaunty heath
what if i get wep and than have to play oiutlaw on paladins, that would be cionema for me since i did not touch outlaw this season so far 😄
leaden prairie
i think outlaw is better on paladin
because
it does same damage as assa
while having perma sprint
and move speed is op on this boss
you will get it when you get to it
jaunty heath
there is 0 rogue logs public on paladins
leaden prairie
yet
upper narwhal
what if instead you just sit bench and let range have more fun
jaunty heath
two guilds public logged it and they dont have rogue
leaden prairie
there is 0 rogue logs public on paladins
on hc tho outlaw and assa does the same damage
is hwat i meant
and its the same boss so
outer nebula
Can confirm outlaw on Pallas is ez life xd
jaunty heath
i would have to redo gear so much for outlaw
leaden prairie
its the same as sub
leaden prairie
no cirt haste
i mean mastery sims the same as crit
my sub gear is kinda just the same really
jaunty heath
i propably wont be on paladins, we are killing dwagons tonight first, we are abou to kill so that will be fast, than my guild will decide what to do. but with the nerf planned for tommmorow, i dont think we should even pull them now
since its different fight tommmorow
jaunty heath
they halfed mechanics
leaden prairie
half a night
yes but
you still have the same movements
and same spot to press defs
jaunty heath
maybe we split some boss instead
vale osprey
Getting a feel for it is still going to be useful
leaden prairie
and same things healer need to get a feeling on
waxen hawk
and dont u think outlaw can do better than sub in m+??
vale osprey
Would be silly to call it early because you need less MWs now
jaunty heath
well will see, they did not decide yet
leaden prairie
Would be silly to call it early because you need less MWs now
dont think that changed
they just reduced the number of small dispells
but that wasnt what you were using mw on
jaunty heath
i though im donzo for this tier and before raid they posted roster with me on 3 bosses
im so back
leaden prairie
but that wasnt what you were using mw on
nvm i dont actually know
keen dome
@vale pine quick question. Is TFD still the best choice for M+ over everything else? I recall it was but also I don't know if that has changed with the dungeon pool, etc.