subtlety

[heady garden]

Do a nice deed for the day. Bring a rogue.

[lucid jackal]

Bro its so over

why is the biggest wow content creator telling ppl rogue is fine

Its sooooo bad rn in raid

I'm on the bench man

I'm so bored

I just wanna raid

[strange chasm]

It'll be good for the last 2 bosses lol

Surely

[lucid jackal]

Yeah man its not gonna be a 15 hunter fight

Not like every other boss

[strange chasm]

Just a go next angle if it is

[warm marlin]

6 prio mobs 6 hunters marks

[lucid jackal]

MM hunter just has
The best raid buff
The best ST
The best burst
The best Cleave
The best burst AoE

[warm marlin]

i played law for the first prog boss ever mr guy

and then got sat immediately

but we went out with a bang

[strange chasm]

Surely surely rogue will get some love

[lucid jackal]

I like how they both made HUnters mark the best raid buff

and then also made every raid boss this raid 3 targets

so u need to play 3 hunters

to apply mark to each boss

Like?????????????????????????

[strange chasm]

It is funny Max says rogue is good but then they don't bring one and he brings up poison not working and the cleave being shit

[lucid jackal]

can we blow up hunters? how the fuck is hunters mark so OP

Why did they do this

[lucid jackal]

ATrophic works on alleria hes just wrong

[ornate heron]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rare quest]

is wound poison ever worth using in M+ dungeons over instant poison?

[lucid jackal]

Sometimes

[strange chasm]

Dw blizz going to give marks a 2% nerf

And nothing for rogue

[rare quest]

my group was doing a MT +11 and we were talking about the mob healing and I swapped to it

[lucid jackal]

Wound Poison is good on nexus point bridge

[rare quest]

didn't notice a huge difference either way

thanks

is nexus point bridge the only place you are really using it?

[lucid jackal]

I cant think of any other heals honestly

But there might be some

[rare quest]

awesome thanks. I figured I'd try out rogue this xpac since my guild has too many healers and we can never find rogues so I'm still figuring out when to use my utility

[lucid jackal]

Its a fair question

Rogue has a lot of shit in its toolkit

[chrome palm]

if max told you the sky was blue you might need to check for yourself

[short radish]

another common L take from max

[short radish]

i think the big voidy dudes in MT can heal if you don't kill adds in time

[dense stream]

BiS sheet for sub anywhere ?

[green torrent]

do we use blackpowder at 2 or more targets, or, 3 or more? there seems to be a discrepancy between the guide in here and wowhead

[dense stream]

does is exsist?

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glass kelp]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[weary tree]

2+ targets

[hollow spear]

Dragons or Vanguard?

[hollow spear]

2T with potent powders, otherwise 3T

[cosmic prairie]

do i just press puzzle box every other SB or do i wait 30s to pop SB

[hollow spear]

Every other

[cosmic prairie]

ok

[wild vine]

Kinda knew we would be in that trinket situation for atleast one type of content

[cosmic prairie]

im at imperator rn trying to be rid of this trinket

hopefully someone sells it to me for like 100kj

[wild vine]

That will only really help you for raid

You'd still use puzzle box in m+

[cosmic prairie]

how important are we talking

[gilded lodge]

Naw, just pump the boss/low target count pulls with guidon 🙂

[cosmic prairie]

like 1% or 10%

[gilded lodge]

It’s better for overall, especially if there’s big pulls

[wild vine]

Think it was like 1.5%

But pulls get huge rn

So its probably more than it sims for on dslice or like 5t

[cosmic prairie]

ya i crank on my all cd pulls

but, icl casting ts is not worth it

im like in the middle of first boss pit

casting a 2s channel

[wild vine]

Imo its not as bad in m+ as it is in raid

[cosmic prairie]

i just had to PRE-CAST

for that boss

ya nah

ill take the loss

[fossil forge]

Guidon sucks for m+

Puzzlebox gaming

[warm marlin]

dragon

we not that good to kill vanguard this week

[high grotto]

with apex talent optimisation, if we have one supercharged and double ss to proc and then go into darkest night, do we double ss again if its needed? seems like it would be a dps loss but probs wrong

[wild vine]

You always do it if the next finisher is supercharged or DN

Ye

[ornate lake]

Gamers how do i get rid of this bloatware in details? I don't need this much info, and also want to merge physical and shadow components of some spells

[high grotto]

so 2 in a row is fine

what do you do if you SS and dont proc apex

[wild vine]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[wild vine]

Thats what the shadow technique stacks are for

[high grotto]

i mean if u dont have enough ST stacks do you just wait to have enough before using ss?

[wild vine]

No you dont do the optimization

Its a prerequisite if you should do it

You always want to get all your gcds covered in dance

[high grotto]

oh wait i misread it lmao

yeah nvm

im actually braindead

[weary tree]

Gotta be honest. Mythic vanguard sub rogue isn't that terrible

[raw bluff]

Is that Apex talent optimization only ST or is it also for AoE situations (say your average M+ pull)?

[wild vine]

It kinda is

It plays like shit

On that fight, no matter what difficulty

[weary tree]

Eh the positioning is hard

But I expected worse when I played it

[grave trout]

Hey ,
new rogue here.
Do you build 14 Combo point before pulling on Raid ?

[dense mountain]

it will reset to 2 supercharges on pull

but getting 2 is good

[grave trout]

no

i hink you keep it

[wild vine]

No

You dont

[sharp shell]

no just 2

[grave trout]

in mm+ yes

[sharp shell]

m+ also just 2

[grave trout]

i will take a video i m 85% sure

[keen dome]

It'll always reset to 2 on key start or boss pull.

[dire timber]

Hi guys. I'm confused. Do I use the second Dance in the middle of the Shadow Blade window or near the end of blades?

[weary tree]

You better get 20 combo points before pull before it works

[void ocean]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[grave trout]

so i m in front off the boss

i will pull and take a screenshoot

i m 85% sure i will keep it

[dense mountain]

[sharp shell]

[grave trout]

i was wrong ok

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-smoking-sadge-pepe-smoking-pepe-sadge-gif-16948267171533269841

[sharp shell]

85% wrong still 15% right tho

[shadow mist]

Hey quick question,when out of dance are you just focused on building cp and waiting for next window or are you spending cp too?

[grave trout]

yes

but you need to have full combo point before shadowdance / secret technique up

[void ocean]

where r we in terms of pvp trinket this season

[grave trout]

you need to have 1.3 shadowdance + secret technique up before bursting with shadow blades + trinket mastery

[fair vessel]

What’s the trick to keeping up with all the warlocks in m+

[shadow mist]

So I’m spending cp but I need to be at full just before dance comes up again

[alpine wraith]

you wont really keep up with wlocks

but at least be glad you are in a key

that means somehow you got invited

[keen dome]

Just bribe the imps

Make them do a Bear Incident.

[grave trout]

to have full combot point + 2 supercharged with SD and you secret technique

[alpine wraith]

true make them go bearing

[keen dome]

"Hey, hey, Imp? I'll give you 5 gold if you go pull that pack in the corner. Off you go."

"Ah damn guys we wiped. oh, warlock you don't have cooldowns now? Ah well, too bad."

[fair vessel]

Warlock has cooldowns?

[keen dome]

I dunno, I'm just shitposting

[grave trout]

use macro to launch (optional) Trinket+ ShadowBlades + shadowdance + secret technique

[keen dome]

My knowledge of Warlock is cool demons + they don't do the one thing I invite them to my raid to do

[fair vessel]

I also love ignoring everything I should be doing. Maybe we have a lot in common

[keen dome]

Trying desperately to get the Warlock to put down a summon closet for 5 minutes using every form of comunication known to man.

[fair vessel]

“can you put tv?”
Drops healthstones and goes afk

[keen dome]

Hahaah

[hollow spear]

Jokes on you, I'm logging in the morning of raid day to prestack

120 parses all day

[upbeat cradle]

Padding like crazy, not help the group with cc and pray they die and you survive

[open moss]

Should i take hero tset head piece or Champion alleria shadow dmg neck 🤔🤔

[cosmic prairie]

when it says shadow clones have a 100% chance to trigger SHadow Techniques' effect; what does that mean exactly? all shadow clones just generate 1 stored combo point?

cause they cant really refill our combo points if we're already at max

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/this-is-unacceptable/2281465 reposting in here for the 4th time

hit this with a like if you can

help it get more traction

[weary tree]

big

[tribal blade]

i'm trying to do my part

[weary tree]

I do hate that shroud is just completely pointless now

It used to be so nice to be able to skip mobs

Then people got sad because only rogues could do it so they gave invis pots and priests their crap

[tribal blade]

it is usable in keys sometimes

[weary tree]

Then it still wasnt enough so now everyone has true sight

[tall girder]

prophet my goat

[tribal blade]

but it's not nearly as useful as you would think

[weary tree]

I only shroud so that my tank can pull in a raid so that the melee's wont die to insta hits

[keen dome]

Haha

Nice

But ye, shroud being a sitrctly inferior tool to soothe et al sucks.

I guess there is a balance because it's either extremely strong or extremely useless but it should work by the same rules.

[weary tree]

It's funny how being stealth is worse than soothe

[tribal blade]

it's classic thing with rogue

[keen dome]

If a mob can detect, it shouldn't be soothable

[tribal blade]

what we have is deemed OP

then given to other classes in a more broken form

[keen dome]

ur op

[tribal blade]

YOU TOO

[weary tree]

And me??

[tribal blade]

and you 😉

[weary tree]

❤️

[keen dome]

From Blizz's perspective, I can see it. Shroud is just a design nightmare. If you don't add detection to mobs then a Rogue can sneak through the entire dungeon but if you do, game over. Like, how do you balance that effectively without either making it useless or extremely strong?

But I would simply say: change how it works. It doesn't work in todays game. Soothe does. Maybe look at that, Blizz. Hey, we have this button called Distraction.. What if.. Soothe??

[lucid jackal]

It shouldnt be a game deisgn nightmare

You have mindsoothe

Mindsoothe was, and still is, 10x better than shroud ever was

Its still just better than shroud

[tribal blade]

if they want to keep shroud like it is being niche useful, then they should give rogue some other form of utility

[lucid jackal]

Why is mind soothe in the game as good as it is, even in its mega nerfed form

Just let shroud be something

[keen dome]

Because detection mobs.

[tribal blade]

yeah pushing during mindsoothe seasons was wild

[lucid jackal]

You mean every season until they nerfed it?

[tribal blade]

DF S2,3,4

was crazy

[weary tree]

true

[keen dome]

If mobs with detection couldn't be soothed then it'd effectively be the same.

[tribal blade]

lol yeah

[weary tree]

But blizzard likes priests

[keen dome]

do they

do they

[weary tree]

More than rogues looks like

[keen dome]

Yeah that's fair

[fossil forge]

Nah but we complain every szn that shroud sux

now it doesnt even give speed..

[tribal blade]

the main issue is rogue doesn't bring a good raid buff

[wind cosmos]

Guys im thinking about playing sub but idk if its a good idea

[tribal blade]

the easiest fix would be slapping +3% crit or w/e on rogue

and keeping atrophic/numbing

then rogue is suddenly much more desirable in both raid and keys

with a dmg raid buff you would have likely seen a rogue played on this tier of RWF

[fossil forge]

Rogue would be a must have with 3% crit buff + poisons

no?

[tribal blade]

well think about every single raid buff class

is must have

[fossil forge]

You might be onto something unc

[tribal blade]

also don't some classes bring other forms of buffs besides their raid buff

classically priest brings both fort and PI

and mass dispel

therefore mandatory raid spot

and they just buffed hunters mark to make it better and more desirable to bring iirc

[foggy estuary]

We need a mass cc like kidney shot upgraded with stealth/clones to mass kidney everyone with shadowclones 🥷

[tribal blade]

i think aoe kidney with reduced duration on secondary targets would be good

replace aoe blind with that

[foggy estuary]

Adds to the class shadowclone theme as well🤷‍♂️

[tribal blade]

any time you think it's sounding OP remember this https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z-L7EtDTAk4

(don't even have move speed shroud anymore)

[foggy estuary]

10/10 class fantasy great design

[tribal blade]

i will say rogue is feeling moderately useful in skyreach because you can ST stun adds on 3rd and last boss

but it's not like other classes can't just cover that by alternating what they have

instead of rogue just soloing it

[olive canyon]

We live in hope for tuning tonight

[fallow ingot]

for what lol

[tribal blade]

the issue is tuning is a bandaid fix for a deeper problem

[olive canyon]

We are unlikely to get any meaningful changes to talents or playstyle any time soon

[tribal blade]

that we will continue to keep having unless blizz makes more significant changes

[atomic bobcat]

that deeper problem exists for long time, they avoid it

[olive canyon]

That is evident by the state of the talent tree

[tribal blade]

yeah that's why i made the post

[olive canyon]

i posted on your post

[tribal blade]

maybe if we raise a big enough stink they can't just keep ignoring it

it does actually work

[atomic bobcat]

closing rogue discord like the rets did

[olive canyon]

The class is being memed on by both RWF guilds and on their streams constantly

[tribal blade]

because it's not a good look for them to leave things in a state where a lot of people are upset

[olive canyon]

so they do know there is an issue, seems like they dont care or simply dont know how to fix it

[tribal blade]

problem is as rogues we have a tiny playerbase

[olive canyon]

or dont have the time to do so at this point

[willow bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-down-press-button-shut-it-down-gif-17603164

[humble rover]

do we go 2 acuity enchants or do we go 1 mastery?

[alpine wraith]

both are fine

[glass gale]

which spec is better now for m+?

I am already checking faq etc however things change so fast lol xD

[brisk onyx]

You ask this question in sub channel so I’ll answer sub

[glass gale]

yep for sure

[brisk onyx]

[placid storm]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[glass gale]

actually I mean which build

[brisk onyx]

i think trickster is fine

[jaunty heath]

is the ring set from nexus worth anything

i see it did not make it to bis list on wowhead

[river stag]

It did like 600k total over the duration of a +12 nexus point

For me at least

[opal basalt]

do we know if a bow hunter with 266+ ilvl bow can trade daggers with surv lootspec?

[alpine wraith]

no it has to be daggers iirc

[dry plank]

big stink with our playerbase imposible

[silent dune]

since box and shadow blades are awkwardly aligned do you just tank not having box on ur second blade and save it for the third one?

[olive canyon]

yeh

treat it as a 3m cd

[silent dune]

kk ty

[cosmic prairie]

we need like 33% haste for infinite shadow dance

[oblique grove]

sub rogue in my raid is using a mace off hand

is that real

[heady gulch]

infinite dance = infinite energy = still not enough dps

[upbeat cradle]

Lucky him being accepted in a raid, i'm jealous

[oblique grove]

so it is stupid right

and im not missing something

[upbeat cradle]

Yes

[oblique grove]

its the mastery haste mace from dragons or whatever

[upbeat cradle]

He'll have less combo points by doing that

[frank hemlock]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[sullen bridge]

does emberwing feather sim good for anyone here? I have it but it sims pretty poorly vs all my other passive trinkets 🙁

[slate matrix]

Hey guys I was wondering if at some point today one of you who’s a lot more knowledgeable about rogue than me would help me out and check my logs to see what I’m doing wrong and point me in the right direction. If you are willing to help feel free to message and I’ll send log a bit later today

[torn cedar]

is m+ do i still stick to the dance with sectec only or do i just send them back to back as long as the pack lives?

[night sparrow]

Really situation dependant. But 95% of the time, you don't send back to back

just test it and you'll get the feeling

[tepid steppe]

Have there been haste updates to simc? Used to make me go below recommended haste rating now it's shooting way up high the recommended 700

[tribal blade]

not sure, probably dependent on the gear you're simming

depending on what combo of gear/enchants/gems you're simming it may want to drop or add haste

[sullen bridge]

mine want a crit/mastery ring over haste/mastery even tho i am at 550 haste

[mighty citrus]

i have pretty decent gear and haste was fucking around as well

robot says no to the haste "threshold"

[tepid steppe]

Yeah I don't know what's going on, but whatever I'm just going to follow simc, I'm too old to be thinking about it too much lol. Going to drive me crazy

I want to just sim and forget and not worry about manually doing haste ratings in game manually

[mighty citrus]

personally i just go with 700 and the build up the rest around it

doing this by switching gems

etc

this might be full fail, but as you said

too old

i dont minmax sims if i cant minmax my actual play 😄

[tepid steppe]

Yeah I did this and then just follow simc now even if it overshoots

I'm just a filthy casual

[sullen bridge]

but where does the 700 come from? Isnt that value also from sims?

[mighty citrus]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[upbeat cradle]

I think i know what you're doing wrong, you're playing rogue 😂

You can make a log thread and people would help

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[plush olive]

I can't tell the timings properly but is there any world where we get 2 shadow dances in crown of cosmos intermissions to stack up supercharged points? First intermish is definitely just the 1 with blades coming back pretty soon after but not sure on 2nd

[jade oasis]

no

it takes into account that you’re human

the sims usually want like 600

[void ocean]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[void ocean]

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

is this for st too?

btw someone asked today is AA optimization only for st and i didnt catch f anyone answered

or do we do the same fishing with storm in aoe

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[void ocean]

also whats the verdict on the pvp trinket this season

[hazy breach]

ass

The passive one is fine if you need more haste but probably still not worth it over renown trinket

[void ocean]

whats a renown trinket

[hazy breach]

The trinket you get from renown 7 with voidstorm

[lusty acorn]

Rogue key 10 and above all class range above him

We need more bufd

Buff

https://tenor.com/view/silly-reaction-meme-stan-twitter-funny-stressed-gif-7713976294327515532

[void ocean]

thats the Singularity, right?

pardon my ignorance

[hollow spear]

idk, rogue dps in keys is the least of our worries atm

[mighty citrus]

for me mplus as sub is fine as well. i do very good dmg competing with a lot of geared other classes. raid is the bigger concern for me persnally

[tribal blade]

those same problems will exist in keys too once they become high enough

if not worse because in a key you occupy 20% of a spot

[fleet acorn]

If ure lowest dps it’s a u Problem I always was top in any key I did

[mighty citrus]

me too, then the same geared warlock came 😄

and i was like uhm

[silent dune]

how certain are we that subtly will continue to be best spec for m+ because idk if I wanna do my second craft yet

[mighty citrus]

wait a second

[tribal blade]

it doesn't matter and sub isn't the highest dps in keys right now

[fleet acorn]

I didnt say it’s highest dps I just did myself highest I played with

[tribal blade]

for sure

but rogues do not have a spot in keys despite doing very good dps

[silent dune]

im seeing a lot of chinese subs on logs tho

in high keys

but

no one wants me in eu

L server

[tribal blade]

chinese doesn't really count

they do their own thing tbh

[silent dune]

dont count for what

[boreal narwhal]

I do find it funny that I sometimes see balance justifications for rogues being something like "If you do good in aoe, we'll have to nerf single target" etc, meanwhile other classes do just fine in both. In both m+ and raids

[tribal blade]

they don't really follow the rest of the regions

on all things

also representation in keys right now is gonna be not super accurate on the meta

[silent dune]

I mean they are demonstrating that rogue is doing well in high keys tho

[tribal blade]

for now yes

this has happened in many MANY seasons

where sub is dominating the first few weeks

trust

[silent dune]

are they gonna gut sub or what

[tribal blade]

no

but once the meta starts getting formed

unless sub is doing bonkers OP dps

there'll be 0 reason to bring a rogue

at all

when you can stack x4-5 raid buff classes

and do ~15% more dps than a non raid buff stacking comp

and have more utility

this isn't me dooming, it's just what happens every single season

[silent dune]

im specifically talking about key pushing tho

[tribal blade]

i am too

[silent dune]

oh right

I mean

ye idk

[tribal blade]

last season sub was very strong

didn't make it into the meta

the last few seasons too sub has in general started off very strong

[silent dune]

guess it depends just how high you are pushing because you can push pretty high with some off meta stuff

[lusty acorn]

We need buff

[tribal blade]

then peters off

[tribal blade]

you for sure can

but pushing as rogue is much harder

when it's like "i can bring this warr and buff all the melee by +5% or this rogue who brings nothing"

[lusty acorn]

Every range dps do high dmg than me every dungeon i know how to play rogue and my gear is great

[hazy breach]

I would be surprised if sub gets a buff

[silent dune]

true

[hazy breach]

Assa and outlaw sure

[silent dune]

rogue should just do more dps to balance this

[hazy breach]

Sub probably not

[tribal blade]

again i'm not dooming just to be crystal clear

it's just facts

[silent dune]

yeah I mean pugging as a rogue is so miserable

literally no one wants u unless ur banana broken

[tribal blade]

yup it's really bad

earlier me and my guildie arms warr just hit 3100

[mighty citrus]

if i would not have made almost 3k score first two days with my friends, i would now not even get into 10s probably 😄

[tribal blade]

we decided to sign up to 10 nexuses to try to get the ring set

we signed up for 10-20 keys

not a single invite

having 500-1000 more IO than the key holders

[silent dune]

ye I just have to wait for my healer and tank to come online lol

or post my own key

[gentle temple]

What we need is a raid spec able to do something in 2 3 4 target cleave I think right

[silent dune]

im sitting at 2.65k io with 263 ilvl and barely get invited to 10s

have to just post my own

[tribal blade]

yeah sad

[silent dune]

even tho I know my rotation better than the average pugger and I know I would damage mog 😔

[tribal blade]

i made some new friends title pushing during S2 TWW

and one time i signed up to a key they had

and they msged me back saying "hey sorry we're gonna take this feral for motw"

eternal pain and suffering

[silent dune]

lmao

ye I mean either give rogue a useful raid buff or just give it enough dps that it's worth bringing but puggers won't care about the latter option because it's less reliable than a guaranteed raid buff

[tribal blade]

raid buff would be best for sure

[hollow spear]

Sub was not doing the highest dps last season, but it was up there. Didn't make it meta.

[tribal blade]

the issue with 10s is they watch tier list videos and only think you can time keys with the absolute meta specs

[hollow spear]

We'd have to be broken dps wise to make it.

[void ocean]

i dont mind brutal dps as a mean to compensate

[hollow spear]

Like hunter was last season

[tribal blade]

when you can time weekly keys with any spec in the game

[fair vessel]

Just close the discord no?

[hollow spear]

Yeah but we don't get that

[tribal blade]

sub might have been able to slide into the BM spot last season if they hadn't have gotten those hilarious additional buffs

from them sandbagging sims

[hollow spear]

Yep

BM was pretty useless

[silent dune]

I always take applicants based on io and ilvl or how braindead easy their rotation is so I know they are more likely to not do tank levels of dps

[hollow spear]

Besides cranking

[tribal blade]

on weekly keys IO and gear yeah

or raid prog

[radiant swift]

is the set any good over other ring combos?

[tribal blade]

you see a guy 5/9M you know they'll be good

[silent dune]

ye ofc

[tribal blade]

honestly not sure, but it's free damage

and the stats are good for sub

might not be worth if you have way too much crit or something

[hollow spear]

That set is omega haste

[jade oasis]

ye when you see me with my HoF chimaerus title

i better get that invite

[tribal blade]

high five we got that today too 😉

[radiant swift]

yeah trying to tone down on it but the light ring is omega good statwhise

[tribal blade]

i did a lot of boss dammy

[hollow spear]

On assa?

[jade oasis]

i got a pretty decent parse without 4 piece

got a 91

[tribal blade]

i think they're both decent

[jade oasis]

im praying for tier shoulders from vault bc

[tribal blade]

maybe i should actually sim it lol

[radiant swift]

hard to say at which point u stop with crit - im like sitting on 27%

[jade oasis]

then i can cata helmet and not have to use those abhorrent legs

[radiant swift]

tried to sim but robot cant handle haste so it just keeps saying go crit

[tribal blade]

that's probably good enough i would imagine

i'm at 25%

[hollow spear]

I don't even look at the non haste stats

[radiant swift]

id imagined it be a bit to high

[hollow spear]

I just do what the sim says

[tribal blade]

i think it's fine

[silent dune]

but ppl who are taking people for 10s based purely from meta are soooo low iq

soooooosososo low iq

[radiant swift]

mybe - but will be less soon have to still fix haste to 700

[hollow spear]

For me it's mastery schmastery, all the same

[jade oasis]

true

[tribal blade]

important thing is your play will dictate how well you do much more than a few % changes in stats

[jade oasis]

especially when 10s r free rn

[hollow spear]

Idk, there's just 500 applicants for your 10

[tribal blade]

i also got this today 🙂

my mastery sitting GOOD

[hollow spear]

Boooo

Get this man out of here

[tribal blade]

the WW in my guild was like "I DON'T ACCEPT THIS" in disc

[hollow spear]

This is probably the one time where rolling for loot is beneficial for you

[tribal blade]

was pretty funny

[night sparrow]

Good stats, I have 747 haste with oils, set is 0.5% dmg

[hollow spear]

Because if it was master loot, you'd so not get it

[tribal blade]

it was masterloot 😉

i won the roll

[radiant swift]

theyre haste/crit haste/mast right?

[night sparrow]

Yup

[tribal blade]

you can adjust your gear to account for the stats on the rings

and they'll become good

[silent dune]

ye but I bet theres genuinely people picking people lower ilvl and raiderio because of their class

[night sparrow]

Wait Rory are u my former rdrood from TWW ?

[silent dune]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779196945448304640/1364708570355990538/togif.gif

[silent dune]

no lol

[radiant swift]

find it easier to do troughout jewelry - many other pieces are kinda set

[tribal blade]

that's true yeah

[radiant swift]

could recraft for other stats but the budget on them is low'ish

[silent dune]

I was a blood dk then frost dk and now rogue player

[tribal blade]

need to get whysper in here to give his spiel about stats lol

[fair vessel]

My friend literally refuses to invite any class that is not considered s tier. She refused to invite 3k rio havoc because the class is not good enough for weekly 10s

[silent dune]

shes just iq gapped happens

[tribal blade]

def not good enough, 3k is only top 1% on NA

absolute trash

[night sparrow]

Btw is crafting my 285 belt already trolling ? Have champ 263 :< and already crafted weapon

[silent dune]

just a higher chance of bricking the key or being 10x slower but meta tho!! meta !!!!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779196945448304640/1364708570355990538/togif.gif

[tribal blade]

probably not no

we get another spark next week too

[silent dune]

but ppl who are over valuing meta in lower keys just probably have no completive experience or understanding gotta be a wow player thing or something

cuz if u take someone from any other comp game they understand that the player diff matters 10x more than meta diff in lower elo especially

[tribal blade]

most people who do weekly keys are very out of touch with how M+ actually works

it's part of the reason they're doing those keys lol

[night sparrow]

I'll prob craft it, at least ill be done with BiS crafts

[silent dune]

but do people not understand the concept that some players are performing their rotation to like 70% efficiency whereas some players are performing it closer to 90% and this factor matters 10x more than comparing classes both performing at 100%

[tribal blade]

i crafted boots because i got this from keys

[fair vessel]

I usually try to invite people playing off meta with big rio. Becuase you know these guys are cracked

Not you average frost mage

[silent dune]

u obvoiusly just take the player who has a higher chance of performing their class higher to the damage ceiling and even damage aside, dying to mechanics and how often they kick are also factors that higher ilvl/rio players are probably doing better

its literally all a probability game when accepting applicants

[fossil forge]

Incredible cope i timed a 10 on yellowclass with blue gear

[left ledge]

Fwiw, rio isn’t an indicator of that

[silent dune]

u just take the high percentage

[tribal blade]

lol true, you take a meta spec player's IO and subtract 100-300 points from their score

and that's their real score

[left ledge]

Higher rio means nothing most of the time

[tribal blade]

depends tbh

[left ledge]

Most of these people just bash their head into the wall until they time a dungeon

[tribal blade]

that i can't argue against lol

i'm one of those people

[fossil forge]

I think 100% of ppl do that

XD

[silent dune]

I mean it just objectively is a better indicator than class

[left ledge]

I mean it’s just how m+ is

[silent dune]

its literally

a chance game

every time u accept an applicant ur taking a chance

and picking higher io/ilvl simply increases ur chance

[tribal blade]

M+ is a game of stamina and being able to suffer more than everybody else

[silent dune]

ofc u can still get fckd

[left ledge]

And early in the season it’s an even worse indicator

It’s just a toxicity scale this early

[tribal blade]

early season IO is bs i agree

[fossil forge]

Mental stamina defo

[silent dune]

im not debating how strong or good of an indicator it is but simply that it is an objectively superior one than picking because of class

[tribal blade]

you see some higher IO people who are dogshit, then they get weeded out once key levels get high enough they can't hang

i've seen it happen a lot

[left ledge]

Yeah that’s true but also could just have better experiences with some classes

I never invite pug mages

No matter the io

[tribal blade]

fuck mages

@short radish

[left ledge]

They’re just braindead for some reason

[silent dune]

yeah the best indicator may actually just be how braindead easy a class is because you're just more likely to get damage out of them xd

[fossil forge]

Unwritten rule of m+

never invite the mage

[fair vessel]

Pug hunters are worse I think

[fossil forge]

Cap

[tribal blade]

just happens a lot with classes that get special treatment by blizz

[left ledge]

Yep, at least for these shitter keys where cc and kicks don’t matter

[short radish]

FUCK MAGES

[tribal blade]

there it is

[short radish]

holy shit

dog shit class

[left ledge]

Yeah I’m not sure wtf is wrong with them

[short radish]

refuse to do mechaincs

we give them literally 2 jobs on saladbar

press interrupt

and press ring of frost

out of 3 mages

we had 41 casts of ring of frost

over 23 pulls

37 of them were from one mage

fuck mages

[tribal blade]

but it's not a dps gcd

idiot

geez

[short radish]

PLEASE PRESS YOUR FUCKING 50 BILLION UTILITY BUTTONS YOU HAVE

[tribal blade]

no

no i don't think i will

blink

[short radish]

"sorry I died blink was on cd"

poiASLOJASHDKLJASHDLKJASHDAS

[left ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-dont-think-i-will-captain-america-old-capt-gif-17162888

[wide shuttle]

not into sub at all, so Im wondering -> explain Slice and dice please. No guides seem to mention it... but i mean, it's a skill? 🙂

[short radish]

do you not have W bound?

[left ledge]

Evis auto applies it

[tribal blade]

"sorry i died because i ahve so many defensives i didn't know which one to press, so pressed nothing and died"

[short radish]

it is a passive that exists when you press evis

it will always be up naturally when you do your rotation

[fossil forge]

My feint is perma on cd

idk why people dont press defs

Cooldowns need to cycle

[fair vessel]

Healer would get bored

[fossil forge]

True

[tribal blade]

i don't do this too much in raid, but in keys i definitely do this a lot

[fossil forge]

Idk its a habit i guess

i feel like im not playing the game If my spells arent on cd

[undone cliff]

Noob question. Is there a goal for crit? My ST dps is trash (49k or so at no tier 256 ilvl). Sims say I’m rocking the best gear I have. Looking at other higher rogue, I see they have a little less haste/mastery and a decent bit more crit. Their sectec damage is about 3k dps more with roughly same amount of casts. Their evis damage is also more for roughly same amount of casts.

[tribal blade]

it's not a bad habit, it's only bad if you're burning all your feint charges and then you can't feint an important upcoming mechanic

[hazy breach]

If you feel like youre doing low damage the issue is almost never your stats.

[undone cliff]

Oh okay. My uptime is 99 or so, so I know I’m hitting the boss. May be energy management or something.

[tribal blade]

we don't really manage energy anymore

more likely you're not doing the rotation optimally

[fossil forge]

I always keep at least 1 up

But i never rly sit on charges

Elusivness too op..

[tribal blade]

elusiveness really good in keys yeah

[hollow spear]

Probably kinda int, depending on the amount of mythic loot you get

[hollow spear]

I would agree with you, but I always have that one moment where I greed for a dance cooldown during a mechanic

So I need cheat death to not get hard flamed by my group

[inland galleon]

That’s why god made cloak of shadows

[still gazelle]

I went to kill Nullaeus again to see if he'd drop myth crests. He does. Does anyone know how much?

I was capped

So I couldn't tell

[hollow spear]

Doesn't work on half the stuff unforch

[inland galleon]

?? Nalleus should be uncapped myth crests

Or so I was told

[gaunt totem]

Uncapped the first time, after that it’s 5

[fossil forge]

Yo fellow mythic raiders

Any boes

We looted 3 during raid

Ts droprate increased forsure hidden buff

[inland galleon]

Is this per character or account wide for first time bonus ?

[hazy breach]

Per character

[dusky yacht]

I helped guildies do it and got voidlight marl too

Very L I guess but w/e

[still gazelle]

Is the 650-700 haste "ideal" unbuffed? Without any weapon oils I'm at like 645.

[vale osprey]

No it's flat number with oils and everything on

[lean geyser]

is rogue the only class with zero representation on the latter voidspire bosses?

[vale osprey]

And it's 684-700 you want to be at

[tribal blade]

iirc yes

haven't looked in a bit

[fair phoenix]

Its worth to get hast cap without the guidom trinket?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[still gazelle]

Guess a silvermoon alacrity

would do the trick

[lean geyser]

they don't even want a rogue in a group looking for a rogue

[foggy egret]

is it worth playing around coup de grace at all? Like if we have it ready do we send or wait for a shadow dance

[still gazelle]

So this is ideal then. Lubed up. Sims say eyes of the eagle on both, but I'll ignore.

[vale osprey]

I mean eye of the eagle is very good - are you gemming haste?

[still gazelle]

Sure am

Only vers is from set head and offhand

[alpine wraith]

living dangerously

[tribal blade]

ngl i miss stacking vers

[still vector]

Everyday lol

[shadow mist]

Y’all I know it depends on pulls etc but is 90k ish dps good for m+ or nah

[uncut hinge]

do you have 4 pc?

[tepid trellis]

well with my gear it would be kinda shit

[shadow mist]

2pc

[tepid trellis]

think below 100k is not great

[uncut hinge]

I generally do 103-110k without 4pc but can be more in your range if the tank is pulling small

[tribal blade]

yeah if you don't have 4pc and gear isn't great it's gonna be tough

been in the 130-140kish range recently

can likely do more

[shadow mist]

I have a catalyst charge so I pray I get a tier piece from vault too and I’m good

[tepid trellis]

anywhere from 130k to 170k is what i usually do

[tribal blade]

keep meaning to trying using puzzlebox but i'm hesitant to try it

[uncut hinge]

i dont know because i havent played with it yet but 4 pc seems like its a world of difference in mplus with 2 sec techs in blades

[tepid trellis]

think puzzle is bait

[tribal blade]

massive dong dps

haha cool

[tepid trellis]

its only slightly better on massive AoE

[hazy breach]

4p isnt massive no

2p is the massive one

[tribal blade]

i can keep vibing with guidon

[tribal blade]

true

[tepid trellis]

and very very worse in lower targets

[tribal blade]

mmmm ok good to know

[azure mauve]

vs guidon you mean right?

[tepid trellis]

most recent sub key was me helping out an echo raider with a +10 AA and i did 151k

[tepid trellis]

yes

[tribal blade]

i have yet to break the 150k overall mark

[tepid trellis]

also just feels way better to play guidon

[hazy breach]

Its also a bit of 90 vs 120

[tepid trellis]

highest ive done so far is now 175k

in pit

[tribal blade]

goddamn lol

madman

[hazy breach]

If routes end up being standardized around elemental 2 min cds for example

Then puzzle and pretending to be 2 min might end up better

But for just yoloing guidon probably the play

[tribal blade]

a lot of the time depending on how the tank pulled

it did feel like holding blades was quite often the play

[tepid trellis]

we just constantly pull big and chain

[tribal blade]

unless you wanted to just send it on a small pull to help get to the big pull faster and let the other 2 dps pop off

[tepid trellis]

so for me its just cd on cd

[hazy breach]

But also blades is quite weak now anyway, relative to previously

[tribal blade]

ahhh ok

[hazy breach]

(or well, blades compared to blades+flag)

[tribal blade]

that's not happening in the keys i'm doing lol

[azure mauve]

damn are we back to blades is weak again

[short radish]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[tribal blade]

SHEEESH

[tepid trellis]

full buffs run

[tribal blade]

you're gonna get us nerfed

[tepid trellis]

banned

[weak vector]

All rogue damage reduced by 10%

[short radish]

nuh uh

[tribal blade]

stealing all the dps

[short radish]

missing a DH

[hazy breach]

Well Dance is strong

[tepid trellis]

my 172k was only with warrior

cheater

[uncut hinge]

I knew as soon as he said that someone would come crashing through the wall like the kool aid man

[tribal blade]

yeah makes sub feel good in keys right now

we have burst

and dmg outside brust

burst

[tepid trellis]

well our "burst"

is just dances

[tribal blade]

lol true

[tepid trellis]

ive been playing around with DS in keys

last few days

[unkempt walrus]

anyone know if vanish will remove the fixate of the ads and make them retarget someone else in vorasius intermission?

[tepid trellis]

usually it would

but i dont know for sure

[shadow mist]

So around what range should I be aiming with 2pc and 258ilvl yall think

[hazy breach]

For the authentic funnel experience?

[tribal blade]

100k+

roughly

[tepid trellis]

i wanted to see how good it actually was

• the boss dmg

seems quite fcking strong in keys with it

[cursive wagon]

!AA

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hazy breach]

Boss damage should be fairly similar

[tribal blade]

did you play imp sectec with DS

[void ocean]

this Gaze trinket, we dont have to collect these, right, it just buffs us

[tepid trellis]

i was around 90k boss dmg as DS

and like low 80s on trickster

[still gazelle]

Correct.

[tribal blade]

i hit a 90k ST on a boss today

can't remember which one for the life of me

but it's normally not that high as trickster

[hazy breach]

Idk maybe sim is cooked for deathstalker and missing stuff, but it seemed pretty close to my dummy experiences atleast

[still gazelle]

I can't think of a single raid fight where DS would help me parse better. Don't almost all fights have some cleave at some point?

Maybe Crown?

[quick marlin]

u sim like 95k as trickster why wouldnt u hit 90k

[tepid trellis]

you dont have all raid buffs in m+

that would be why

[tribal blade]

literally impossible to have every raid buff

[tepid trellis]

my gear isnt even that great (not spend crest yet)

[tribal blade]

damn you're huge

[tepid trellis]

still have all of my hc/myth crests to spend

[gilded ferry]

wait what, is that m+ overall?

[tribal blade]

i need to see what i can do with a tank pulling like that

[quick marlin]

fair

[tepid trellis]

but i was not in this week at all on mythic so no reason to spend

[tribal blade]

not my overall but yeah

[tepid trellis]

outside of mythic chimaerus and first boss

splits

[quick marlin]

i sent all mine..

well still have 20 hero left

[still gazelle]

Is first boss mythic easy?

[quick marlin]

but im waiting for vault

[gilded ferry]

curious to know on why you have not crafted the belt

[tribal blade]

we went for chim HOF today so i sent most of my hero crests

[azure mauve]

you should spend

cause fo dopamine

[tepid trellis]

im waiting for reclear lol

[tribal blade]

nah he shouldn't lol

[azure mauve]

number go higher

neuron activation

[tepid trellis]

no reason to spend anything

[lilac stag]

Don’t need a high number on bench

[tepid trellis]

im in next reset scath

[lilac stag]

Nice

[hazy breach]

Bro with the stinky cloak, unfortunate

[cosmic dust]

Yeah

[lilac stag]

I’ll likely get to play when 10 of our range decide to stop showing up

[gilded ferry]

can we talk about the first boss on the raid being fun again

[tepid trellis]

i have 266 in bags as well it just what i had crafted

[lilac stag]

or bliz remembers rogue exists

[tepid trellis]

only slots i dont have 266 is shoulders+legs

[gilded ferry]

i still have nightmares on tarragrue

hated that fight

[hazy breach]

Idk this first boss is kinda stinky

[azure mauve]

tarragrue was easy no?

[gilded ferry]

yeah, i hated the gimmick

[alpine wraith]

how much dmg does mass casualty do more or less?

[hazy breach]

It aint no gnarlroot thats for sure

[alpine wraith]

they did buff it quite a bit but idk

[chilly dagger]

Mechagnome sims 200 dps higher for me compared to Pandaren (im void elf currently), is swap the play? haha

[cold cliff]

hey guys, is there a "cheat sheet" for m+ which mechanic can be mitigated by feint/evasion/cos?

[hazy breach]

pinned in #wow-general

[tepid trellis]

in +10 seat

[lilac stag]

The biggest cheat is meld/vanish targeted casts

[tepid trellis]

so thats lower target count than most other dungeons

[alpine wraith]

not that bad tbh

[tepid trellis]

3%

[alpine wraith]

think it is capped at some targets anyway right

[hazy breach]

8, like bp

[lilac stag]

What talents are you running @tepid trellis

[alpine wraith]

ah wait it has softcap

no hardca

[tepid trellis]

the wowhead build

so w/e the fuck that is

[alpine wraith]

?

or no tfd and finality or wm

[tepid trellis]

the wowhead build as i said

i dont have the game open

im honing in lost ark

which is more important

[gilded ferry]

thats the m+ wowhead build

[chilly kite]

do you just hate money?

[tepid trellis]

gotta get the rat alts ready for serca hardmodes

so just doing advanced honing 40 on them

[chilly kite]

but not captain credit card honeing

[tepid trellis]

no lol bound mats

just raw gold cost

[void ocean]

"jUsT pUsH uR oWn kEy, BrO..."

[chilly kite]

I was F2P for a long ass time, then they let a bunch of bots and hackers completely take over the pvp ladders on NA so i stopped playing. idk if its gotten better in the last year or so

[hazy breach]

Ye unfortunately keys are too easy this season

So nobody wants to run low keys like +2

[chilly kite]

@tepid trellis I also fucking hate playing alts.

[tepid trellis]

half a character left and so far -480k gold

[tulip silo]

cant even find tanks for 10-12s I dont know if there is any on lower ones lol

tanks are going to a 12 straight from 0

[void ocean]

boy they rly tho this through

is it just me or this whole expansion so far feels like we r in some new game alpha

[chilly kite]

i keep getting the most brain dead mages in keys

like kids that are somehow 2800 rated doing tank damage...

[void ocean]

its like a rip off game made based on wow

[humble rover]

is the nexus ring set any good?

[keen dome]

It's free damage and decent stats for us, so yep.

[weak vector]

yes

[alpine wraith]

it is decent

[tepid trellis]

-600k in total from doing 5 ilvls on my GS and SE

[humble rover]

did some sims and it seems it does not want me over 17% haste, it would rather take crit eagle chants on ring rather than haste

[chilly kite]

yea see my accnt would not look like that lol, I went ham on my one Deathblade lol

once they forced me to make alts to keep up with people i was like ummmm how bout no

[swift tinsel]

is that 17% with haste flask/oils?

bc you can hit the threshold being short with gear haste and make it with consumes

[tepid trellis]

i dont mind alts, just about finding ones you find fun to play

[humble rover]

it wants mastery flask

[humble rover]

maybe i did something goofy

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cnWrTHpUtpPHauZ2Su9ozX

[chilly kite]

deathblade was really the only class i enjoyed, i didn't keep playing when reaper came out tho, so i might have enjoyed reaper

[tepid trellis]

reaper can be quite rogue like

[swift tinsel]

it only uses the flask you tell it to

if you're doing top gear

[chilly kite]

i was tempted to start LA back up, but I was also tempted to start DUNE back up. too many options for games, not enough time : /

[hazy breach]

You should generally always have the crit damage enchants on your rings, theyre more valueable than other stats

[humble rover]

ok so you think it be more beneficial to use haste in my caste?

case

[swift tinsel]

if it puts you at 700

[chilly kite]

man i've been so unlucky with jewelry I'm still using a vet ring, because I just havnt seen any rings or necks drop

[frigid prawn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[frigid light]

does someone know what our highest simming weapon rune is?

[static jolt]

how do you guys go about using blades and dance in raid? M+ seems pretty straight forward just send it but do you wait for things to line up? like if sectec has a 8+ sec cd is it worth it to dance without it or just wait? and same with the blades, do you hold double dance for it ?

(with 4p)

[foggy estuary]

U always wait for dance to sectec afaik

[royal parrot]

Im trippin

or Rogue is kinda bad now?

[foggy estuary]

Its bad, better play hello kitty island adventure

[swift tinsel]

its fine in m+, raid could use some love

if they balance around heroic 95th percentile then we're legit dead-middle of the pack

[hazy breach]

Oils

+crit/+haste

[vale osprey]

Is the Xenas ring set better than the Wowhead bis list of Algethar ring + Magisters ring?

You know what - I'll ask the robot

[quick marlin]

sims worse for me

[elder grove]

Hello, im new to Rogue and ive come with a question. Does Shuriken Storm aplies my non lethal poinson on all targets it hits?

[tepid trellis]

it can yes

[elder grove]

What are the chances to get an aplication? 30% for each cast?

[hazy breach]

Each hit has the 30% chance yes

[wet echo]

the chance is stated on the poison itself and each individual target hit has its own proc chance

[solemn mauve]

guys there is difrence in the
Eyes of the Eagle lv1 to lv3 ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

0.75% vs 1.25%

[vale osprey]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kyooQShpBDfFbosLdRVHQx 0.4% for me

[solemn mauve]

mine shows 1 %

in both

strange

[quick marlin]

simming mine

clanker s working sec

it simmed worse when i checked a few days ago

[hazy breach]

Ye tooltip sucks ass

As they often do in world of warcraft

[solemn mauve]

tanks

thanks *

[vale osprey]

Obviously I'd have to juggle around haste etc because the robot doesn't know we want 684

[quick marlin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mx41neahj2exea17E2PZ67

[frigid light]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kJKuXU7NjtavsTge9YZNYL

i got 600 from rings lolol

how you losing dps

[quick marlin]

[frigid light]

whats ur stats with them?

[quick marlin]

i dont have it

[frigid light]

ah

[quick marlin]

cus it simmed worse so i didnt farm it

it would be..

[hazy breach]

Because we love haste breakpoints

[frigid light]

yeah you need the haste breakpoint

[frigid light]

i have 755 crit 629 haste 610 mastery

yeah i know i need more mastery than crit but i cant have more atm

[midnight vault]

you need minimal 700 haste

[frigid light]

nah with 620 you have 18%

and then you also get haste from oils

so you have enough for all gcds in dance

[hazy breach]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2ioP3GLhrVt4N7HPP6PXhA

For example if you just readjust the stats

Dont want to end up at like 800 haste

[quick marlin]

no eleem you cant do this to me i dont wanna..

eleem...

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dog-staring-at-sun-cute-dog-dog-closed-eyes-dog-staring-at-sunset-gif-10310895250239531072

ok but i still lose dps btw

[frigid light]

thats 40k gold there

[quick marlin]

im 100 dps off

compared to my sim

[frigid light]

damn

[hazy breach]

Im sure you can find better solutions than just recrafting

[quick marlin]

93405 yours

93439 mine

[frigid light]

mystey

:O

[quick marlin]

im at like

pixel perfect stuff

i just need to farm the wrists from pit

[vale osprey]

@quick marlin @frigid light was wondering how you two are simming 2k higher than me, I've done a good job of getting BiS in basically every single slot and then I look at both of your trinkets ya lucky sob's

[frigid light]

yeah man the trinket gives 1.5k i think

[vale osprey]

no flask

[quick marlin]

im flask'd

[vale osprey]

I've got it just on baby-ass lfr

[frigid light]

ugh

[warm marlin]

if this is for raid id sim crit flask btw

[vale osprey]

With baby mastery flask

[frigid light]

you can swap 60 haste away to crit

[vale osprey]

Yeah I should do tbh, the weighting was fairly similar so the more mastery I get the more I think crit flask is the play

[frigid light]

and i think thats dps+

[vale osprey]

Me?

[frigid light]

ye

[warm marlin]

i would not do that

[vale osprey]

Don't we need to be at 684?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[frigid light]

18% is at 620 smth

you guys play with 19% bc its easier?

to hit last gcds right?

[vale osprey]

It's about flat num rather than %

[warm marlin]

you will not hit all your gcds at 620

[vestal escarp]

How are statistics looking?

[warm marlin]

its too small

[quick marlin]

i just trust fuu/stealthi

and eleem

[frigid light]

i am hitting them o.o

[quick marlin]

if they say 700 i go 700

[crystal bone]

stat enthusiasts

[frigid light]

sometimes i hit it with 17% aswell

but there i fail most of the time ofc

hm

alright thanks for the headsup then

[warm marlin]

if you proc coup it should be literally impossible at 620 to get all gcds in

maybe very slightly possible

well ig 587 is the literally possible

[vale osprey]

But yeah with trinkets I think I'm within 0.3-0.5% of BiS

Will try to my hands on the other ring too

[warm marlin]

but you have practically 0 room for error or world lag or whatever

that's spooky

[frigid light]

i really have no problems with hitting i am not making stuff up :D but if 684 makes it 100% so be it

ofc if you play mechanics or move abit its over but thats normal

i play with 80ms and 300 spellqueue

well with oils i am at 654 or smth

[warm marlin]

oh well ye you include oils

654 very playable if you're locked in

[frigid light]

629 wout oils

[hollow spear]

have you checked your logs to verify if you actually hit your globals?

I have quite some doubts

With double coup a lot of players thought they hit their globals

Turns out they didn't

[orchid linden]

hey im new to sub in midnight, used to play assa. i havent found a good explanation of when to use vanish in raid/m+?

anyone got any tips? or anything besides the wowhead i can read or watch?
cheers

[frigid light]

well its a matter of 0,3s or 0,4s margin isnt it?

with 18% vs 19%

[warm marlin]

coup eats an extra 0.2s

so 0.1s or 0.2s

[hollow spear]

you almost always get a coup during dance

[vale osprey]

Is there a way after a top gear sim to see how much flat value of each stat it outputs?

[frigid light]

so 0,1 0,2 ok

[hollow spear]

at 650 you have between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds