subtlety

[compact violet]

shhhh be quiet

[short radish]

😶

[compact violet]

dont tell the truth

theyre watching us

fake your enjoyement that theyre giving us attention, maybe well get more

ok im done for this week soon i guess https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5Re7s3jruTSc3CStT4PAe2

[stuck arrow]

If we settle for Talon, we get 2-3 target cleave and more stealth interactions tho.

[soft oriole]

I think sub should lean into shadow clones way more tbh, rogue as a whole is just so visually uninspiring these days

[severe void]

can i macro the puzzle box to shadow blades?

[soft oriole]

Most melee are in a similar boat, but yeah, need some extra spice in our lives

[west tide]

guys i got mythic chest and mythic wrists from raid

[soft oriole]

I feel like either way you could go about that is not really worth it or possible. You either macro the cd first and then waste 2 seconds of it, or you just macro trinket first and the cd won’t work

[bronze turret]

Nah, it’s too passive as it is

[west tide]

ill never get those trinkets bro i gotta get lucky in the vault its so massive for other specs

[faint quail]

Wait so I’ve been griefing w blade/dance/guidon macro this whole time?

[west tide]

ya

[faint quail]

Bruh

[west tide]

if u watch perfecto he presses guidon and waits like 1-2 seconds almost lol

[faint quail]

How many gcd u gain?

[west tide]

1 extra iirc

[faint quail]

Interesting.. well good to know lol

[severe void]

yeah ive been trying a couple ways but doesnt do the trinket

[west tide]

u dont have to wait that long but its guaranteed that way

u can do like half a second but sometimes it wont work

[faint quail]

Also guidon>puzzlebox?

[soft oriole]

Yeah idk, I just feel like individual button presses are not as cool as other classes and that’s why we’re underrepresented nowadays

[warm marlin]

i waited 0.9s and didnt get dance duration yesterday once 🙂

[west tide]

oof

[drifting ether]

I been macroing it to shadowstrike/backstab enter into my sb sd st combo a lil after

[stuck arrow]

Idk man. Tell me that Marksmen is visual impression while just spamming aimed shot that hits 3 things and bounces.

More that tuning ass. Which leads to best players saying we suck. Leads to community thinking we suck.

[west tide]

im sure they know about that jank with the trinket and what rogues are doing

and idt its fixable?

[soft oriole]

Thing is our tuning has been fine in the past, it’s not like we are perma shit, just often

[west tide]

i kinda wish shadowdance didnt have that haste component its kind of annoying

to gear for lmfao

its not that bad i just hate that jank

[severe void]

is sub considered shit right now?

[west tide]

all melee is

[soft oriole]

Shit is the wrong word, suboptimal

[dreamy root]

rog is

[west tide]

but as far as melee goes after warrior, dk, we are like right there with ret in terms of usefulness to the raid comp

its war dk and a decent drop to us with the other melees

the damage is competitive enough tho!

[dense geode]

ret is way stronger

[stuck arrow]

Depends context. In raid right now, melee is a meme based on the encounters.

And then all the ranged classes have a broken spec so we're shit got the cutting edge.

We're pretty average / above average compared to most specs though, and as far as completing 99% of the game, totally fine.

[soft oriole]

I think where meta perception is more important (mythic+), we are fine. But people who have gms that like to imitate rwf are in for a sad tier, not because we are unplayable, but because we are not optimal

[west tide]

every raid wants to be optimal if u can

[soft oriole]

Yeah but when you don’t have access to the best players in the world. A good sub rogue is far better than a shit warrior etc

[severe void]

its pretty sad seeing rwf being mostly ranged with a shaman

[soft oriole]

Part about rwf that gets me is that dks bitched their way into being stacked. Not because of their damage. But because of their grips

Blizzard actually just made it mandatory to have 1-2 dks on any serious fight

[iron imp]

We should shut down the rogue discord in protest /s

[grave cradle]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[soft oriole]

Though at the same time, if grips/amz wasn’t a necessity. The raid comp this tier would be so sad for melee

Speaking out of my ass mostly, I’m no expert but from an average Joe’s perspective

[tepid trellis]

it is funny seeing how hard evis hits

it does do quite good single target in keys

[stuck arrow]

It's always that way though, TBH.

Grips are like giga busted and always have / always will be.

And AMZ is pretty good. Better than Atrophic tbh. Makes healing timers easier to manage relatively.

[west tide]

yeah grips are just so insane and even at their weakest u bring 1-2

its just how it be

[soft oriole]

Aye, I just wish every class was mandatory. It’s a shame they aren’t. Or go back to very few being mandatory and have more stacking again. I think we’re pretty close to having all be mandatory but our raid buff is just so underwhelming, especially in a tier like this one where you can get hit by avoidable damage on Alleria and live

[crystal bone]

u could argue that every class being mandatory could hurt a lot of guilds that struggle with roster boss

[soft oriole]

That’s true, but isn’t pretty much every other class mandatory at a high level now? As you get lower it matters less and less but at the top, isn’t it just us now? Genuinely asking

[crystal bone]

max also said on stream yesterday that he would love to have atrophic poison for paladins fight, it would actually go ham there, but our dmg is just nonexistent on that fight compared to everyone else

a marksman doubles our damage, even triples it

and they had 4 of them

[soft oriole]

Yeah I guess that’s just an unfortunate overlap of the fight that really hurts being the fight that all 3 of our specs suck at

Which is insane to me, how can outlaw not be good at that fight. Just terrible tuning or reworked to not be great on cleave

[stuck arrow]

I think that there's just fundamentally never a pve situation where you think to yourself "man I wish I had a rogue."

But like every other class has that basically.

[warm marlin]

unfortunately that's why atrophic is a shit raid buff

you can be a victim of tuning

and thats on a fight where the dr would be strong

[stuck arrow]

But like imagine Mages / locks / DKs being a victim of tuning. 😂

Like even if they're kinda bad, not having lock gate or grips is trolling.

[crystal bone]

dk wasn't played on paladins either, but yea lock/mage is mandatory

[warm marlin]

ye dk can also be a victim

[crystal bone]

int buff is just stupid strong

[warm marlin]

but their raid buff also lets them get double stacked on occasion

any of the damage raid buffs are just mandatory

[crystal bone]

agi buff

[warm marlin]

i think if mm wasnt op on paladins you would drop warr buff though

[oblique spade]

!puzzle

[sleek socket]

not even 1 set drop or won, but got now back to back Guidon and Gaze

[oblique spade]

damn, what's box usage?

[boreal condor]

every other blades use

[oblique spade]

can we cast before pull?

or is there a specific timing in the opener that's best

[spice crag]

shadow strike > puzzle box > blades > dance > pewpew

[plucky moon]

Guys i got trink from 1st boss voidspire and ik gaze is our 2nd bis trink but whats closest to gaze cuz i dont have that one yet?

For raiding i ask

[alpine wraith]

many passive ones

vessel prism etc etc

[carmine portal]

What's depressing is the fact that afflic isn't omega on paladins 😢

I was hoping for some secret tech

[alpine wraith]

ua got nerfed by like 70%

they are going to eat ass for a while

[grim vessel]

If we can get a second SecT During blades, do we send it ?

[oblique spade]

NAH HOLD

for supercharged

[carmine portal]

absolute sad

i picked it for the dreadlord carrion swarm hero talent, then it was gone

then i wanted to do damage with UA for once

[merry agate]

we got our janky playstyle back 🙏
thats a staple

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

bro trinket 1 sec before to hit a server tick not the jank i want bro

i want some freaky shit

[merry agate]

[hazy breach]

Probably renown void trinket

The plumes from beloren are as good as gaze too, but the boss ain't available until next reset so

[crystal bone]

i managed to grab the plume from delve quest, sims basically the same as renown void trinket for me

like 100 dps higher if that

[hazy breach]

Ye but it isn't capped at champion

Like the renown one is

[crystal bone]

yeah, i meant at equal ilvl

[hazy breach]

The skyreach trinket is also better, but only once you start reaching myth track ilvls

So idk renown trinket just good

[crystal bone]

yup

[solemn isle]

do the upgrades to renown trinket only work in void dungeon and void raid? or they upgrade everywhere you use it

[warm marlin]

they work in all instanced content

[solemn isle]

ok good to know ty

[vast dust]

I think you have to enable it to work out of voidstorm through the void table upgrade system thing no?

[glad bough]

when optimizing apex is that only for shadowstrike or do i do the same thing with shuriken?

[robust saddle]

does AA work for coup? the clone dupe damage

[hazy breach]

Correct

[stiff pollen]

what makes panda bis rn? racial for double the food effect?

[hazy breach]

But you get one per voidstorm event, or you can just do the quests

[hazy breach]

Yes food buff good

You can play mechagnome if you prefer, those sim similar

[bleak night]

[stiff pollen]

I love my nelf though

[hazy breach]

But realistically race doesnt really matter

[bleak night]

Very progressive

[stiff pollen]

very nice for dungeons to cheese out first dance before boss

[vocal rock]

Is this crafting bug a real thing? Any of you see it?

[stuck arrow]

It's real.

Exceptionally rare though.

[obsidian crag]

are u guys using vanishing for some reason? when?

[faint quail]

Vanish>ss for 7cps

Whenever u need 7cps

[obsidian crag]

isee

[grim vessel]

Seems like vanish breaks instantly in half of the raid fights

I'm considering a vanish strike macro

[buoyant leaf]

is there an addon that can be used to track shadow tecniques? Or is it built into the blizz default somewhere where I can move it freely

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately that does not work

Just like dance+strike macro does not work

[stuck arrow]

Often I use vanish to get movement from strike when target switching, TBH.

Usually higher value from uptime than anything else IMO.

[sharp lake]

Does the ancient arts proc not copy Secret Technique?

[hazy breach]

By default you cannot move it, maybe something like arcui can though

[sharp lake]

Getting conflicting info

[hazy breach]

It does, but its based of the physical hit only

So it does less than it should

[sullen hare]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

But it still kinda doesnt matter

[sharp lake]

ah

[sullen hare]

it's listed in the spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

As its doing roughly the same as an eviscerate anyway

[exotic steeple]

i think my loot is bugged srly im only dropping capes

[sharp lake]

ah that also answers why it seemed like pressing shadow dance was eating my AA procs

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[hazy breach]

Ye

[vast dust]

I’m running a macro that casts dance and SStrike and seems to work just fine?

[hazy breach]

Well its not instant

[frozen robin]

hey guys are we not using shadowstrike on 5+ stacks of shadow techniques at full CP during dance for regular spenders anymore? (on ST) just supercharged spenders? making sure im reading this thing correctly.

[vast dust]

Wait no sorry, I have a macro that does dance/STech/Blades. I keep SStrike seperate on another button

[fair phoenix]

btw , the hast cap does any dif for mythic plus, or we can goal to crit + mastery

cause i see a chinese using a build with low hast

[vast dust]

Am I misunderstanding the crest discount/upgrade for Off Hand weapons? I have a 6/6 champion mainhand and get no discount for my offhand. Do I have to burn all those crests? If so, I’ll craft a weapon or wait for an upgrade.

[dense geode]

Yes we have to upgrade OH

[vast dust]

It’s like rings and trinkets? Have to have both slots upgraded?

Oof. Stinks

[dense geode]

Only one that gets away with it

is like the 2H specs

or Fury warriors specificaly

[vast dust]

I’ll craft order a Hero Farstriders instead then and swap current main into off hand.

Seems like a better plan and use of crests since my champion crests are scarce

[dense geode]

you dont want to craft with mythic?

Hero gear is farmable

so is upgradable cant really farm mythic gear so the only options this week is craft unless you do mythic raid.

[vast dust]

Ya, probably best to hold until I have enough mythic. Good point.

I’m still working my way there

We’re not on mythic raid yet. I’ll work on getting my selves up to 11 for mythic crests right?

[true coral]

Hi! On the guide it's said we craft the belt after the dagger, but can we do the wrists instead?

[dense geode]

yes I believe 11 drop mythic crest im not 100% sure

I know ?? drops some myth crests though

easy to do with a grp

[hazy breach]

Yes you can

[true coral]

Great! Ty

[supple barn]

eleem and fuu the goats

[sleek socket]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[neon frigate]

is it me or is beast mastery hunter just outdamging me so easily?

in M+?

[tepid trellis]

@vale pine the apex minmax on DS on last boss Seat is a bit funny

[neon frigate]

!macro

[vale pine]

jucy

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tepid trellis]

max ancient arts was the same as my regular Evis

[alpine wraith]

i even ask my team to miss 1 silence just so i get blades + cds back

[tepid trellis]

just miss it yourself

[alpine wraith]

kek

[iron imp]

why does deathstalker want to start dance with shuriken storm over shadowstrike? What am I missing?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[jaunty heath]

i have full tier mog thanks all those cata charges kek

[dry plank]

Panda power omg

Go go panda rangers

[iron imp]

lol should have guessed its because rogue is bugged. What else is new?

[iron shore]

TF, how many charges u got ? dropped a single one here

[jaunty heath]

like 8

[iron shore]

guess im unlucky asf

[jaunty heath]

or you did not do 50 keys

[iron shore]

actually at 30+

[jaunty heath]

that seems unlucky than

but i got like two from raid

[iron shore]

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-office-michael-heartbreak-pynZagVcYxVUk

[jaunty heath]

the only thing i got from raid 😄

[crystal bone]

i gotta race change to either panda or undead

when firedup gets pk'd it looks so funny as panda

[runic sinew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dry plank]

Go panda man

[crystal bone]

panda stonks on the rise

[dry plank]

You will never race change after

[surreal storm]

Do we know the dps % difference between shadowstrike and shuriken storm on 3 target scenario ? (Like on lightblinded vanguards)

[surreal storm]

That's why i'm asking, is it significative or not (i'm not asking what to press, but the dps difference)

[left peak]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[obsidian crag]

temple of jan alai

[left peak]

So is the apex min/max every dance now? Not just during lust?

[steel zinc]

No all the time

and more "complex" in like actual cleave and not mass aoe

!apex

[left peak]

Okay so it’s back to how it was

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[steel zinc]

The above basically all the time

[left peak]

Yeah I just saw the “lust only” part was removed

[steel zinc]

ya

[left peak]

Interesting

[steel zinc]

but tbh I can make it easier for you got supercharge combo points/darkest night you just strike again and max combo points if AA is not up

[frank narwhal]

Is there a way to make the Escalating Blades icon change into the Coup de Grace icon when you reach 4 stacks? Using ArcUI atm

[steel zinc]

because in 95% of cases you have the shadowtechstacks anyways

[brisk gull]

!addons

[upbeat cradle]

with the 4p, secret technique barely has the cd to come back before SB ends but i don't have a SD up for it, do I send it naked ? or is it better to send the ST with SD but without SB

[left peak]

Yeah always have the stacks

[steel zinc]

yeah its super rare you dont so its w/e

[summer lynx]

So what do you guys think about rogue only being brought because an agi dagger drops and they dont wanna waste loot? Think Blizzard will finally take a serious look at rogues or do we keep being the drowned child of the classes?

[frosty axle]

also wondering this, seemed strong to just send it at the last second of blades

[steel zinc]

its castle all over again and tbh any serious prog your basically bench

I expect also we get some decent amount of nimble/blade/caustic buffs since all 3 rogue specs have just bad cleave

Sub has it going good in mass aoe pulls 5+ with BP but other two might aswell just go afk

[upbeat cradle]

well if you ever find the answer i'm curious

[steel zinc]

you need enough haste to send the last sectech in blades with dance

so roughly 700 haste

That also includes fully raid buffed

[upbeat cradle]

i had 21% haste and if i sent two dances in SB

i couldn't get dance on last sectec

or at least not with supercharged

i think dance was still up

[iron shore]

KEK

[wicked fox]

He got a point tho

[vale pine]

alright, think that works

i need to just fix the formating

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[vale pine]

oops

delete one of zayle's messages on accident, discord -.-#

[barren haven]

[vale pine]

i just joinked the one from outlaw

and modified it slightly

[bleak night]

I heard the creator of wangbar doesn't even use wangbar

A bit of a scandal

[vale pine]

wangbar and msuf is from people in here

[bleak night]

[vale pine]

also i had to drop nameplatekai

else i would have suggested it as alternative to platynator

[lusty solar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

[pliant otter]

how much of a gain for us to do the apex talent optimization?

[vale pine]

roughly 0.5-1% dps

[pliant otter]

thanks!

[lilac stag]

Just enough to keep us above tank dmg

[vale pine]

i think subtlety isn't bad in keys

if the tank pulls bigger

tanks often pull 2-3 mobs at a time atm

[lilac stag]

Keys are ok. Lack of aoe stop sucks

[vale pine]

because the keys are quite easy

[finite hedge]

Is there a way to get cdm to display duration of guidon? I have cooldown manager centered addon but it only shows cooldown

[upbeat cradle]

@vale pine with the 4p, the second sectec you send in SB, do you send it without supercharge ?

[vale pine]

no

there is a small optimization to slightly delay the 2nd dance cast with 4p

but ONLy if you have the haste on use

[upbeat cradle]

ooooh ye

makes sense

[vale pine]

so you would delay it

to get supercharger on secret

[upbeat cradle]

ok thanks

[vale pine]

means you would use the 2nd dance shortly before secret comes up

[umbral fulcrum]

does it matter which supercharger charge it hits

[vale pine]

so secret is your 2nd finisher in it

[umbral fulcrum]

ok

[vale pine]

but without the trinket

just dance again if you have the usual requirements

[umbral fulcrum]

the trinket being the light company guidon or whatever its called

[vale pine]

yes

[alpine wraith]

even with the trinket it is quite tight

[vale pine]

first boss:

• Light Company Guidon (haste when used)

ideally in heroic or higher

[upbeat cradle]

i don't have trinket, so sectech comes back 2s before SB ends, but SD comes back 1s after it comes back up, in that case

it's just better to ignore sectech then

until you get guidon ?

or the haste feather from windrunner i guess ?

[gilded ferry]

next tuesday we get a catalyst charge right?

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

ye, no reason to min/max then, just send it if you can or else

[dense geode]

you get catalyst charges like candy

its not the same system anymore

[gilded ferry]

after 4p its droppable, yeah

[dense geode]

I think Ive gotten like 5-6 cat charges just this week

[gilded ferry]

but im sitting on 2

[short aurora]

did anyone get more than 2 on same char?

[dense geode]

oh true I forget how it works if you havent gotten 4p

good point

[supple barn]

i heard people with 4 set getting up to 4

ive got one in the first day

[dense geode]

yea

[alpine wraith]

it depends on how much content you do

some people are already almost at 70 m+

[dense geode]

you get cat charges often if you play the game and have 4p

[alpine wraith]

and they are capped on charges

[gilded ferry]

I think I already asked this here: So, in this kind of scenario, if I do not hold, I wont have 2 dances in blades. Should I hold for 20s?

[alpine wraith]

no you send

then hold blades 10 secs

[gilded ferry]

i though holding blades was some kind of crime

[alpine wraith]

you will have 1 charge of dance and like 11 secs left on second

unless you dont have 4 set then need to hold 3 secs longer to use 2 dances in a row

but otherwise just do that

[halcyon ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gilded ferry]

yeah, i only have 2p. i hope i have a new catalyst charge next reset so i can get 4p

[west tide]

!guidon

[alpine wraith]

!pedro

but yea check pin

[finite hedge]

is it possible to track guidon buff duration? I can't get anything to work

[jaunty heath]

someone told me you can cast puzzle box when movingh, i was lied to

not cool

[full wyvern]

Is lorrgs busted for anyone else? Wanted to see when people were sending things

[gilded ferry]

working for me, any specific setting

?

[jagged hazel]

are tier 11 delves still supposed to give myth crests?

[vale pine]

pins

[full wyvern]

hmm weird I'm getting invalid SSL stuff from their provider, wonder if my ISP is not liking it

[west tide]

ty hehe

[finite crow]

how mutch can an intelect dagger in off hand cook my logs?

[vale pine]

not too much

you still want to replace it

[vale osprey]

Guys, 6/6 hero track solarflare prism son or renown vessel daughter?

[cobalt patrol]

Sim it?

[vale osprey]

I don't let robots make decisions about my family

[pastel geyser]

smh these people and their clankers

[vale osprey]

Smh probably ask raidbots what to have for breakfast

"Guys my Top Breakfast sim says I should have bacon and eggs today"

[pastel geyser]

sims got updated its actually top to have dry oatmeal

[vale osprey]

FFS I was running my breakfast Sims on weekly 🤦

[pastel geyser]

we run dinner sims on weekly, breakfast always on nightly

[eager latch]

you guys using cringebox in keys?

[pastel geyser]

anything i cant macro to dps button is cringe vibes

[shrewd lantern]

puzzlebox aint that bad

besides its cd is basically 3min

[finite crow]

idk i fkin parsed 50 on vorasius

[eager latch]

it sims way higher than the 90 sec on use in dslice for me

[shrewd lantern]

50 on mythic wouldnt be that bad

[eager latch]

like 2.3%

but that's assuming perfect use I guesxs

[shrewd lantern]

well its not as good as guidon maybe

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

and dslice likely has downtime to make them align on occasion

unless we talking emberwing

that trinket is ass

[bronze turret]

A lot of trinkets are situational

[iron whale]

guys I noticed Cold Blood visual disappears now???
when not in combat?

is it just me?

can someone please confirm

( I love it btw, otìs what I wanted)

[bronze turret]

The amount of times in the past where I’ve passed up on a bis trinket because the conditionals are unrealistic garbage

[worn cliff]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[thin sinew]

Just wondering with regards to racials do they reduce our haste target at all? specifically the 1% haste for nelfs after 18:30 server

[lilac stag]

Delvers Story Level 4

[hazy breach]

No, thats why the numbers are in rating

Instead of percentages

[worn cliff]

do we know why ring set from nexus point isn't bis for us?

[hazy breach]

It is

But its not very good

[thin sinew]

ah got you! thought that might be the case.

[hazy breach]

Its like 0.5% of your damage

[thin sinew]

ty

[worn cliff]

listed on wowhead we have bifurication band and platinum star band?

[jagged hazel]

tyvm

[vale pine]

F

[manic ivy]

guys

do we also need 700 haste for M+? (didn't found any haste command sorry)

[vale pine]

you want between ~650-700 haste

[alpine wraith]

it does help overall

although maybe you would do more aoe with more mastery crit

you dont want to lose too much st either

they also nerfed PP and our aoe anyway

so it makes less sense

[steel zinc]

parses in first week are a joke ngl

[quartz tartan]

hello could someone answer me this. should i get 2 ST inside my SD windows?

[vale osprey]

I'm curious about this too

[quartz tartan]

shadow blades*

[vale osprey]

Robot has the set as bad for me tho

[green blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

with 4p and guidon during lust

[quartz tartan]

okey so only on pull then?

[pastel geyser]

yep

[sick jackal]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hollow spear]

Don't think you need guidon for it to work during lust

[worldly root]

[clever ember]

do i craft my belt at myth track and if so what should i go stat wise

caue i bounce between sub and sin

[fleet acorn]

how is that cdm setup? anyone would switch anything around? if yes please give feedback why

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

with high enough guidon you get 2 without lust

[brazen meadow]

I don’t ever get it on ST with guidon and lust. And I precast guidon. Is there a specific way to get it?

[quartz tartan]

does that mean only on pull aswell?

[tepid trellis]

no

every time you use the trinket

you can do it

[stiff stirrup]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[wintry heart]

Just got this from the weekly

[clever ember]

lucky

[north garnet]

we are blastingggg

[wintry heart]

Is umbral or radiant better?

[paper flame]

with guidon in shadow blades, do you immediately send the second dance following the first, or wait until sectech cooldown is closer so you can supercharge?

[clever ember]

radiant for sub and umbral i believe is for sin

[vale pine]

if you have set too

[paper flame]

yes have 4set

[vale pine]

you want to try to get supercharger on 2nd secret

[paper flame]

that often means holding second dance for sooo long in blades

[fleet acorn]

how good is that cdm lineup? should i switch anything around?

[vale pine]

yes, means holding dance so you can use secret as 2nd finisher

[paper flame]

it feels so wrong

to sit with second dance available for so long just waiting for sectech cd

[limber folio]

this aint right

[clever ember]

anyone know if i should craft my belt myth or get something else if i swap between Sub and Sin?

[wintry heart]

I expected for same ilvl guidon to be more of an upgrade over puzzle box for ST

[clever ember]

how do you do that set up anyway to help me

[quartz tartan]

got a different answer before, should i always try to do 2 ST during every SB window or just on pull

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hearty steeple]

hey guys, can i equip at off hand, a sowrd ?

coz its th crafted sowrd for outlaw spec, and i get the crafted dagger for subt and sin

[tepid trellis]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[hearty steeple]

thanks

and if i wanna sim at top gear, i should do dungeon slice?

for m+ asking

[solemn briar]

Derelict duo, do we BP or just ST, cant seem to find anything online about 2target

[wispy pebble]

was there a command for haste breakpoints?

[hollow spear]

The only one that really matters is 680-700

[fossil forge]

[eager heath]

Believe it's BP if you have Potent Powder otherwise Evis (you probably have Potent powder in M+ spec)

[wispy pebble]

thanks

[clever ember]

anyone know the 2nd piece we should craft if we go between sub and sin?

[iron whale]

anyone?

[swift tinsel]

they removed the one hand glow visual

[wintry holly]

Was removed in recent update.

[iron whale]

I mean I still see it but then it disappears once I exit combat, right?

that's so good, I appreciate that whoever's working on sub is prolly reading here

much appreciated

[upbeat cradle]

on chimaerus, can you do both soaks with CoS ?

[odd sandal]

Why does Withered Saptors Paw sim way better on raid bots than on blood mallet?

[upbeat cradle]

i mean bloodmallet used to sim the darkmoon trinkets very high too

[odd sandal]

Still does lol

[crisp zephyr]

is there a addon now that WA is gone for "Shroud of Concealment Announcer"?

[keen dome]

Just make a macro with a /yell that goes "I'M SNEAKIN' HERE" when you push it

[crisp zephyr]

but that doesnt help when its not counting down when Shroud of Concealment is about over

[slate nest]

well, with 1/4 set im happy like this

[faint quail]

@hazy breach what build were u running for keys (ds)?

[hazy breach]

DS

[faint quail]

lmao

u said it

[hazy breach]

What

[faint quail]

u were ds'ing no?

[hazy breach]

But here you go: CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgx2MAAAAAwsMGLTMbbjxMDzMegZmZGjZbYmZbbMzMzMjBjZWGAAAAGMmFzyADYBsMMhMLwwMDwMzA
Would not recommend

No

[faint quail]

oh was bait, i see

ty

[lyric violet]

You play 700 haste with guidon too? Its totally mandatory play 700 haste? O:

[alpine wraith]

you might lose globals if you go lower

[worldly acorn]

Yes police arrest you if you play sub 700

[lyric violet]

I mean, i can get between 650 and 700

But im trying to stay on 700

To avoid police, i mean

Its really difficult have the bis not myth and stay on 700 haste perfectly

[worldly acorn]

Theres a thing at the bottom of the FAQ explaining haste numbers and the sim vs reality.

[lyric violet]

Going to read, thanks

[stuck arrow]

Also too little haste means your shadow dance and SecTec don't line up nicely.

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[hazy breach]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[hazy breach]

My bad wrote the wrong one

[long marlin]

whats the rogue for not being declined from every m+ pug

rogue tech*

[lyric violet]

have more than 2k rio

[long marlin]

im at 2700, now what? not working

[hazy breach]

Friends unfortunately

[lyric violet]

Friends is the better way, yes

[alpine wraith]

i do my own key

[boreal narwhal]

Was just about this exact same question. Applied to about 50 groups now

[alpine wraith]

just to 11 in case someone krangles it up and depletes so it is still a 10

[weak vector]

Most people think rogues are bad. I had someone tell me yesterday I was the "best they've ever seen" but I wasn't even doing anything special. I think most rogue players are just... not great? The class is in a weird spot. People are either awful, or great.

[lyric violet]

For 10 i usually wait 30 secs

I got about search group for push, it's really difficult

Sry i speak a really bad english

[short vessel]

Easiest delve to run today?

[weak vector]

Grudge pit

its just boring af

[short vessel]

I'll run it on 1's for weekly daily

[weak vector]

I ran collegiate calamity for my 1's

did each in 2 min 30 sec

[shrewd lantern]

alot of people just dont press bp enough

unironically

[radiant schooner]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[weak vector]

I mean that's basically the entire rotation in M+ haha

and interupts

[shrewd lantern]

yeah its why i kind of find m+ boring

because its mind numbing how much storm bp spam it is

rn

[weak vector]

Oh I agree. Got to 2400 for the season and Im kinda just done

[shrewd lantern]

im lower since i did guild runs and people kept getting the same 3 instances

[lyric violet]

For what concern Guidon, WoWHead talking about not macro it, you got issues too?

[shrewd lantern]

[weak vector]

lame :\ I just need to do 4 more +9s for myth crests so I can craft my 285 belt and then I'm basically done until mythic raids

[shrewd lantern]

and i got back late tuesday so i had to take a shit key from my vault to get the tier inside it

instead of mooching someone's 11 for a 10

looks real funny being under 2k with +2 on 12s

due to lack of dungeon variety

[weak vector]

lol

[shrewd lantern]

idk theres just 0 thought process of evis vs bp rn

due to nimble no longer applying

[weak vector]

I just want a more exciting rotation without switching to outlaw

[steep adder]

are we all turning hero pieces into set pieces?

[long sun]

where does it say this i am blind

i also rmbr seeing this and have been playing accordingly

but i cant find it now

[weak vector]

@long sun oh hi shindig. Thanks for the streams!

[long sun]

hello ur welcome

[tight fjord]

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

This sounds amazing

[warm marlin]

this is probably because sectec wasnt up btw

[weak vector]

If we're pushing 700 haste, is there a better option than Thalassian Phoenix Oil?

[solar mural]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tough skiff]

full bis mising neck and ring

[hollow spear]

not sure about that belt send, but looking good

[left ledge]

#subtlety-faq message

[weak vector]

I really need to get these 250's upgraded lol

[tough skiff]

lol not the blood elf staring at the bis lol

[weak vector]

haha

[grave parcel]

How do we get additional cats charges? 1600 in pvp or 2k in m+ right?

[weak vector]

@grave parcel yep

[grave parcel]

But we can only have 2 total right now right?

[weak vector]

I got 1 piece from vault, 1 from raid, and catalyzed the other 2

yes

you'll get another on Tuesday

[grave parcel]

Okay I thought he was saying there was a way to get additional cata charges I was like wth

[tight fjord]

Once you have 4 pice they just drop all over the place I guess. I’ve gotten 2 extra so far

[weak vector]

@grave parcel if you get the achievement for 4 piece they drop

[grave parcel]

Ohhhhh I see

[weak vector]

thats why its such a prio to get the 4pc

[grave parcel]

I took heroic guidon over champion 4 piece this week on vault

[tight fjord]

That’s why u just pick champion tier if u have to, on vault

[weak vector]

I mean, no biggie, you just have to wait now

most people aren't min/maxing their tier

[grave parcel]

I figured heroic guidon more rare then 4 pc

[weak vector]

I think you're fine

you'll have your 4pc tuesday

[grave parcel]

Yea exactly

[safe osprey]

Am I supposed to be crafting two Farstriders? Or One Farstriders and one Belt?

[gilded ferry]

what the hell happened in this log bro
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NrWvfGAgJmaY4kHM?fight=1&type=damage-done

[weak vector]

one farstrider and belt

[safe osprey]

ty

[weak vector]

Don't waste time with the 276

go for 285 on the farstrider asap

[safe osprey]

roger that Eagle1

[gilded ferry]

considering next week we can craft a 3rd item, what is the recommendation?

[vernal drum]

!m

[weak vector]

I think it depends where you fall short

[vernal drum]

there is a command for macro ?

[weak vector]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vernal drum]

ty, is this one work :
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

with #showtooltip

[eager heath]

That trickster BP+Coup macro should probably include a note about its limitation that it cannot be cast outside of melee range

[fiery fog]

simming feels kinda useless rn
you get to 700 haste and the sim just tells you every item without haste is a 2k upgrade lmao

[unique sentinel]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[long sun]

omg i see it now

[frosty sinew]

ye if sec tech is up before guidon will run out you just send it with dance

[long sun]

ty

[frosty sinew]

obv

i purposefully scrolled past the lust opener where it does exactly that

[warm marlin]

no i mean it shadowstriked because sectec wasnt up

[wintry heart]

I CAN MUTE COLD BLOOD

[frosty sinew]

o was it still on cd

[warm marlin]

it will pretty consistently come up for 4th gcd in that dance

strike for sectec apex isnt usually good but it is there if it delays spending the SC point so it goes on sectec

[frosty sinew]

makes sense

i was saying earlier also that i find i typically don't even have the shadow technique stacks to proc apex even if i wanted to

for that sec tech

[azure mauve]

@plush roost repping the yello class

in rwf

[jaunty heath]

pogger

[plush roost]

World first rogue to kill dwagons

lock it in

Yellow class online

[azure mauve]

hell ya brother

what did you play on dragons?

sub?

[plush roost]

unironic boss fucker

nah assa 2 target is good

its just underrated

mind u 1 death mark 2 kb went on the manifestation

[frosty sinew]

i gotta farm puzzle box for dragons prog 😭

[plush roost]

its not MM hunter but its got juice

and i played subpar definite minmaxs i could have done but i was brought in for 3 pulls LOL

[unreal musk]

that dk name tho, im jealous

[true palm]

is it any good ?

[keen dome]

Big fan of the DHs name

[plush roost]

Its decent but worse than renown trinket

[true palm]

sadge ;d

[frosty sinew]

renown trinket on top

[graceful rock]

I have to upgrade it though right?

[hazy breach]

Theres nothing you can grind from m+ that will perform better than the renown trinket anyway

[hazy breach]

Ye but that takes very little effort

Just stand afk in the voidstorm event

[graceful rock]

Noted

[strange chasm]

you can only get 2 currencies to upgrade it a week right?

[warm marlin]

assa

[hazy breach]

Afaik theres catchup

[quaint remnant]

Hey, anyone knows BIS trinkets for M+ and Raiding

?

Im wondering for M+

[warm marlin]

wish we were going to public log it so I can show off the LAW

[quaint remnant]

specially

[chrome totem]

Should I upgrade bracers to mythic since the only things better are raid bis trinkets?

[mighty citrus]

question to the 4p optimisation from the faq: i use the second dance in blades at 2 secs remaning of blades to have a supercharged st? so like half the blades run without dance? i think i got this wrong

[strange chasm]

There is? Like you can get another from a void event?

[mighty citrus]

what i do currently is pop second dance when blades has 8 secs remaning to fit in the second st

but ofc without supercharger then

[hazy breach]

Ye

[hazy breach]

More like 4 seconds left of blades

[mighty citrus]

so the second superchargerproc goes into st, i see

oh no

wrong

forget it 😄

but i see, thanks

[mighty citrus]

so half of dance will be without blades then correct?

[hazy breach]

YEs

[hollow spear]

I hate Guidon being so tight

it's legit a 50/50 if I can get it

sometimes I send double strikes, not even sure if that's still net positive

[hazy breach]

It still is

Thats the cringe part

[uncut oriole]

With 4 set, is getting a second super charged sectech only possible inside lust? Feels like I'm holding the second shadow dance for it too long otherwise

[cursive fractal]

ı need a macros

[strange chasm]

You sure? I got 2 this week after not obtaining any others in previous weeks and did not get another upon doing the void event again

[plush roost]

Soma doesnt public log?

Whatchall gotta hide??

[hazy breach]

Idk maybe you can only get 2 then.

[warm marlin]

we do not public log on prog because some of our members cannot be trusted

i do not think it honestly helps that much but that is the reason

[plush roost]

TRUSTED WITH WHAT?

caps

[fierce wing]

nope, you can do it every blades. 1st dance with full cp and sec tec is 1st cast, then you dance with 4 seconds left on blades, evis 1st super and sec tec 2nd super

[warm marlin]

keeping it in their pants when pad adds spawn

[plush roost]

Oh LMAO

Fair enough honestly

[hollow spear]

I would never delay a sectec for add pad

[plush roost]

Idgaf about parse man thats for reclear

[sly shore]

man I really hate how we've gone back to sub have zero low target cleave...

[rustic wharf]

hey everyone, where can I see the best trinkets overall? the renown trinket is the best?

or should I follow wowhead/icyveins list?

[plush roost]

Void orb? Never heard of her

[hollow spear]

Either you check the guides or you sim yourself

[rustic wharf]

ok, thanks, will do

[hollow spear]

What is that weird icon in front of your name?

[hazy breach]

Well its not the best overall since its capped at champion. But its very good

[plush roost]

I think its default rogue icon for this tier kinda weird

[rustic wharf]

I am currently using Fiber and Saptor's paw so was just in doubt

[plush roost]

Idk why it got changed

[hollow spear]

And why the heck do you have 70 tabs open?

[plush roost]

Erm

[steel rune]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[stuck arrow]

You don't? How?

[plush roost]

Ye i could probably clear those

[restive dome]

Yeah it feels so bad. I do more dmg as on my arms warrior on paladins. That entire fight I just feel useless on sub

[hollow spear]

They're all incognito 😏

[sly shore]

arms is probably the best melee on that fight unironically

[strange chasm]

you been preffing sin or just for dragons

[warm marlin]

arms is legit top 3 dps on paladins wdym

[restive dome]

Yeah I swapped fury to arms on that fight because of a video I saw lmao

[sly shore]

idk why they removed all the cleave from sub

just readd evis to it

it's actively made it useless

[strange chasm]

If they made evis cleave again

sub stonks go to the roof

[warm marlin]

it was critical that strike and evis no longer cleave so that they could tune our aoe and st separately (nerf our aoe based on m0 week to be poor as well)

[plush roost]

If they add evis then they nerf our st again

It is written

[sly shore]

it's pretty clear

they have no clue how much damage things are actually doing

[frosty sinew]

if they make evis cleave we will be doing ridiculous amunts of damage

[simple turret]

is the 4pc + guidon optimization only valid on trickster? I've been trying to do it on deathstalker but it isn't possible for me to fit in 2 ST during blades

[plush roost]

Honestly id like them to just give us a button to press thats like capped at 5 targets

Like sec tec but not

Then tune 2-5 target with that

[restive dome]

i’m convinced blizz is using gpt to balance classes at this point. a 3 dps spec class should not be in its current state atm

[frosty sinew]

ye wouldnt be bad

[plush roost]

What is the "current state" btw

Because its pretty much middle of the pack when played well

[frosty sinew]

only fight i'm really worried about is paladins

the first fights sub fuckin pumps

[stuck arrow]

I mean most stuff is fine.

The outliers are... Lol WTF.

[hollow spear]

We aren't even that bad, it's just some fight profiles being completely ass for sub

[plush roost]

Ye its a profile issue and thats hard to simply fix with tuning without turbo fucking other parts

[restive dome]

that’s the problem, it a pure dps spec should be higher than mid. There should be at least 1 spec that’s above avg, I’m not even talking about dev dh levels

[stuck arrow]

Like WTF is MM right now?! How they the best at every situation?

[hollow spear]

People care too much what RWF does

[mossy spruce]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/class-tuning-incoming-31-march-613122

[frosty sinew]

o boy

do i want to look at it

lol

i regret looking

[mossy spruce]

shut the discord down

[warm marlin]

@lucid jackal no rogue buffs but we gotta get dk back up there ofc

[frosty sinew]

[hollow spear]

But, but

Guy promised!

[mossy spruce]

it has to be a typo, no?

[mental snow]

shut down the discord

[graceful rock]

What da hell

[mossy spruce]

ayyyy

[alpine wraith]

dont worry guys they can nerf us in pvp

[hollow spear]

at least they nerfed Subtlety in PvP

[alpine wraith]

[spiral needle]

kind of funny they are just ignoring that range is completely gapping melee in general

[mental snow]

blizzard incompetent. they only understand drastic measures. shut it down. stop the steal

[plush roost]

No mm is kinda funny

[hollow spear]

Do people still believe that shutting down a random ass discord did something?

[swift tinsel]

psychic link got theirs

this tuning is interesting

[hollow spear]

Yeah, hilarious

What the heck

[swift tinsel]

no devastation or warlocks

[stuck arrow]

Literally they could 25% aura MM and it would still top the meters lol.

[agile kernel]

people care about it because it trickles down to every level of play. we are in the tier list era where if you are B or below you might as well be F.

[dull sierra]

<.<

[hollow spear]

idk, my mid tier CE guild doesn't even have anywhere close to the roster depth required to emulate anything that they do

I doubt most HoF guilds do either

[lucid jackal]

bro hahahaha

Literally what

[vestal relic]

yeah

i want what the balancing team is smoking

mush be nice

[warm marlin]

heroic 50th percentile tuning moment

[weak glade]

did they not actually do anything

theres no fuckiong way

[white tapir]

Im surprised assassination rogue or outlaw didn’t get any love, especially assassination rogue

[hollow compass]

why am i not surprised

[lucid jackal]

NOPTHING!?!??!?!?

NOTHING!?!??!?!?!?

[swift tinsel]

idk just kinda whatever dude

[lucid jackal]

NOTHIGN?????

[mossy spruce]

they are planning a HUGE rework for 12.1 inshallah!!!

[frosty sinew]

dw guys

last boss will have damage amp every 1m 30s

[arctic pagoda]

are we dooming now

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna finish out our prog then probs be done

its a joke lol

[fiery fog]

we gotta close the discord frfr

[limpid sage]

I stg this is the case

[stuck arrow]

Make it every ~20s for about 7 seconds, TBH.

[frosty sinew]

truth

[dull sierra]

So what's been everyone's favorite alt character to play that receives attention?

[frosty sinew]

100% damage amp every 20s

[stuck tulip]

i think MM not getting nerfs is a bigger wtf than us not getting buffed or changed in some way

[fiery fog]

btw

[spiral needle]

if rogue isn't good enough to be in for vanguard and crown for a WF guild, and blizzard decides that is perfectly balanced, then yea i'd say its a good time to doom

[hollow compass]

close the discord!

[agile kernel]

It trickles down all the way to pugs dude, getting a M+ invite is near impossible, raid invites are almost just as bad.

[restive dome]

fury warrior

[swift tinsel]

highkey this is crazy they didn't get touched

[lucid jackal]

IT IS OFFICIALLY OVER

[swift tinsel]

legitimately crazy

[limpid sage]

Play warlock or mage if you want attention to at least one of the specs at all times

[fiery fog]

survival hunter +4% overall dmg increase
also survival hunter:

blizzard has to be smoking crack

[flint parrot]

another tuning with 0 rogue changes

[plush roost]

#subtlety message

Told ya bud

[dull sierra]

this deserve a pin

[hollow spear]

where's the dave casket @swift tinsel

[lucid jackal]

DUDE BUT THEY BUFFED OTHER SPECS

WHERE IS THE ROGUE TUNING

[spare crypt]

fact-checked

[lucid jackal]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT IS GOING ON

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

[fiery fog]

they buffed the #2 raid spec by 4%

[swift tinsel]

funeral procession time

[flint parrot]

rogue so deadge man

[lucid jackal]

survival is bad bro

Like genuinely

Dont look at the first 3 boss, WCL stats page

[dull sierra]

wait what number 2 raid spec are they referring to

[graceful rock]

I mean it’s really just our 2 target, there’s no easy way to do a quick buff to that with out making us turbo in m+ so I get it

[chrome palm]

looks like im gonna have plenty of time to catch up on frieren

[stuck arrow]

Just wanted to make sure the raid daggers they worked so hard at making icons for can get a home.

[mossy spruce]

ive had a hard time understanding why representation in media is important, up until now, i just wanna see rogue in the race man

[plush roost]

Now do damage to bosses 😉

[fiery fog]

so its really good at the first 3 bosses

or what

[sharp ravine]

NICE A NEW CLASS TUNING

[frosty sinew]

there's like 1 survival hunter parse

[lucid jackal]

The sample size is like 2

[frosty sinew]

on mythic

[lilac pendant]

Why does the weird trinkets (Hook and Warbanner) sims so high compared to feather. Single and AOE
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kqa4v2Q13FiqdtdAie6kCT

[mossy spruce]

doesnt matter sevro, go reroll

[fiery fog]

somehow forgot we are week 1 mythic mb lmao

[dull sierra]

Im really glad black powder got nerfed preemptively

[lilac pendant]

?

[agile kernel]

gotta maintain balance bro

[fiery fog]

that was really needed

[young reef]

is that single target sim?

[fiery fog]

like you cant just be good at m0 as a burst spec

[young reef]

o nvm

[grave cove]

Is 6 min dungeon slice normal for aoe simming?

[mossy spruce]

read the room

[mint folio]

devs are drunk af

[grave cove]

It's dungeon slice

[lilac pendant]

this is the dungeon, in single also goes similar

[honest void]

something something we live in a societ

[lilac pendant]

sorry i just dont understand what do you mean with reroll

[unreal ledge]

we got shit on for balance patch, nothing. we suck

[mossy spruce]

doomer joke<3 nw

[lilac pendant]

ah

reroll class

[remote rapids]

you don't get a heroic tier token for ksm anymore?

[upper narwhal]

0 rogues entire RWF other than for dagger, seems fine

[icy mulch]

You get a catalyst charge

It’s in your bags

[weak glade]

we gotta shut down the server tbh

LOL

[upper narwhal]

We are perfect and need no changes as adorned by the gods at Blizzard, praise be

[sharp ravine]

Don't worry, I've got it all under control

[exotic steeple]

what a sad class tuning

[sharp ravine]

Tomorrow I'm going to set myself on fire in front of Blizzard's headquarters c:

[drifting fable]

I give up

https://tenor.com/view/buckshot-rulette-gif-4887289199903237232

what the fuck are they thinking genuinely lol

[agile kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-it-down-jack-donaghy-30rock-end-it-stop-this-gif-21958358

[tulip light]

@swift tinsel since we talked about cata charges - today i got like 4 in one session of about 10 keys

[dull sierra]

Lets all work together and play other classes. If they see that we are the least played class, maybe they will give us attention

oh wait

[restive dome]

Our ST is pretty decent actually with 4pc+guidon, large aoe 6+ targets is mid and could use a small bump, but my biggest gripe is our 2-4 targets we cleve, it’s dogshit. I’d be perfectly happy with a 4 target capped button, or something similar to improved whirlwind for warriors, make a finisher that does half the dmg of evis but makes next few abilities cleave 4 targets at 75% dmg

[swift tinsel]

I've still gotten just the one after about 15 keys/delves and 5 hc boss kills lol

this system is so shit lmao

[tawdry latch]

is there a way to track find weakness?

[hazy breach]

No

But theres also 0 reason to

[woven ruin]

feral gets another buff

[west tide]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-falling-building-fall-woodz-gif-24715383

[steel rune]

u always use secret tech with shadow dance?

[swift tinsel]

balance team must be a fun job

like predicting the weather in a basement with no windows

[hollow spear]

I found the weakness: the balance team :^)

[hazy breach]

I wasnt expecting literally nothing for all of rogue

[hollow spear]

I expected a juicy 5% for assa

[swift tinsel]

nothing for rogue, warlock, devoker, mm hunter

devourer

[stable marlin]

Maybe they add us on before the reset…

[chrome palm]

i was at least hoping for nerfs to the insane op classes rn

if you dont class stack so hard you can slip in a rogue

[steel rune]

u always use secret tech with shadow dance?

[stable marlin]

Just huffing copium now

[steel zinc]

close the discord

no joke

[swift tinsel]

surely using what, 4-5 of the same spec on a boss would lead to at least one nerf

[steel zinc]

seriously this is a fucking joke

[restive dome]

yes don’t randomly send techs outside of dance

[iron obsidian]

yeah how mm didnt catch a single nerf is crazy

[iron obsidian]

we arent ret paladin or boomkins

[late vine]

not only that but the other two hunter specs get buffed

[steel zinc]

well sadly that helps

its stupid but helps

[hazy breach]

It literally doesnt

[barren haven]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound

[icy mulch]

I’m gonna get to play so much osrs from the bench this tier

[tepid trellis]

(UPDATED) Class Tuning Incoming - 31 March
Subtletly - All damage increased by 8%. Not applied to PvP combat.

[balmy gate]

hahaahah

[tepid trellis]

sure we get that

[balmy gate]

we get nothing 😄

[iron obsidian]

why you gotta bait us like that

[hazy breach]

[tepid trellis]

surely*

[woven ruin]

just baited the fuck out of me

[steel zinc]

while assa does tank dps XD

[golden verge]

builds?

[pallid inlet]

I mean even if the discord was closed no one at blizzard would care. They don't know we exist anymore

[iron obsidian]

surely we gotta see some type of aura buff

[honest void]

probs would be nuclear if they nerfed shit hard right now

would be better just to buff other shit well

[cursive hamlet]

devs be like seeing 0 rogues on the last 2 encounters and react "ye that's about right"

[iron obsidian]

they dont have to nerf it to where its completely dead

just a minor aura nerf

like 3-5%

[balmy gate]

we dont want much realy...

[honest void]

anyone on their way to lightforged would kinda get cucked a bit no?

[unreal ledge]

For a class that brings nothing, we have to be top end dmg on one of our spec, the fact that we are bottom dps and bring nothing is unacceptable

[honest void]

idk about bottom dps ngl

[iron obsidian]

if you couldnt figure it out

were the tiny guy

[unreal ledge]

bottom of the pack, yes we are

not absolute bottom

[steel zinc]

since castle its not been this bad

[steel zinc]

pure dps class has one that is barely playable

[hazy breach]

Well if you put it in public the guy that crafted it might not have had enough skill

[unreal ledge]

you cant call that barely playable, its not competetive

[iron obsidian]

playable and competitive are different bud, stop dooming so much

[steel zinc]

The stated goal of blizzard tuning and reason for raid buffs is that every class is represented in raid. Your now dropped instantly because we are this poorly tuned

[honest void]

tbh the raid fights are just shit for all our specs where it matters

barring some

[steel zinc]

idk why people think this is fine you are not good at any boss 0

[steel zinc]

Yeah because they gutted caustic, blade flurry and nimble

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[unreal ledge]

i'm on your side mapko, it's trash

[iron obsidian]

my goat armin

[swift tinsel]

Ive got fun alts to play so I'm chillin

[iron obsidian]

yeah ive got a dk

im chillin

[pliant topaz]

hello my pookies

[swift tinsel]

wb king

[vestal relic]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-it-down-stephen-stotch-richard-tweak-south-park-s22e9-gif-20599886

[steel zinc]

like any raid rogue had one thing they were good at and thats fine. Like kyveza st or funnel or cleave doing st rotation etc

[iron obsidian]

plus i was also fed myth guidon and myth dagger

[steel zinc]

Only reason I am in mythic rn no meme

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1115271001664663552/1407338290821992538/image.png?ex=69c7c76b&is=69c675eb&hm=34f55cb18e6453445eaba786058abad34b0ce1dc28160e08bd32bd98054e6f83&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1061&height=574
Not everybody shares this veiw of balance like you do 🙂

[exotic steeple]

my friends work at blizz, they told me we gonna receive 6% aura and they revert bp nerf

dont worry

[tepid trellis]

@hazy breach get the comfy blanket out its time for the bench

come join me

[steel zinc]

assa kekw hc logs

[hazy breach]

I aint got any bench buddy

[iron obsidian]

eleem my goat with the ragebait

[pliant topaz]

why sit on bench when u can play league instead

[tepid trellis]

ill let you join mine

[hazy breach]

Slaying spires all day

[strange chasm]

they actually benching because of rogue tuning surely not

[iron obsidian]

im fs sat on paladins when my guild gets there

[frosty sinew]

for dragons and pallies my guild is contemplating sitting me

[iron obsidian]

probably same for dragons

[tepid trellis]

we are doing mythic splits this week

[iron obsidian]

my last boss of this tier is gonna be saladbar isnt it

[frosty sinew]

dragons i think ass can do good enough boss dmg to warrant a spot

[honest void]

ain't seeing paladins till reclear

[iron obsidian]

😭

[honest void]

ngl

[tepid trellis]

so no "real" progress so to speak this week

[steel zinc]

what is this ragebait xDDD

[hazy breach]

???

If you thought the point of the post was the numbers

I have literally no response to you