subtlety

[steel zinc]

Either this or drop wm

Well not wm

[small vortex]

oh you dropped shadow dance attack sped

warning signs

[steel zinc]

Yeah

But tbh it's pretty w/e

[frosty sinew]

Feel like you'd drop wm before attack speed

[steel zinc]

Yeah you can

[frosty sinew]

But haven't simmed it

[finite hedge]

Also doesn't even have veil touched which was the original question lol

[olive canyon]

damn wake up and crown is already dead. Might need to sign up for mythic splits

[keen dome]

Oh, neat, they fixed the weird bug on Chimarius where the fear add would keep casting but be uninterrputable and wipe you.

[short radish]

this is an extremely guy take which i disagree with

there's more to prog than RWF

what happens in there trickles down

[keen dome]

Yes, it does. But I also don't think it's has as much impact as people make it out to be. Rogue will be played up to CE in so, so many groups.

[short radish]

rogue will be played yes

[olive canyon]

I am a firm believer that games should balance top down

[short radish]

but the perception is there

[olive canyon]

the meta is always defined by the best/popular

[short radish]

that rogue is shit (which it is)

[olive canyon]

Agreed

in raids. I think we are fine in M+

[short radish]

eg i was almost passed on loot

and i had to fight to be included in the roll

[olive canyon]

Damn - which item

[short radish]

because even though rogue not in RWF, i'm kinda pumping

alnseer

almost gave it to the ret paladin who already had heroic trinket

had heroic of this already

and it was like "yeah we should give it to the ret paladin who pumps"

all these public perceptions trickle down

[olive canyon]

I miss mythic raiding but this tier is a travesty

[short radish]

some are minor issues

[olive canyon]

it is fun at times but there is a large playerbase that likes the feeling of accomplishment

[short radish]

but like we shouldn't have them to begin with

[olive canyon]

And that is missing this tier

[short radish]

when there are so many basic things that could be done to solve rogue

[keen dome]

Sub could be better but I don't agree it's shit. I also don't agree that the RWF is the be-all-end-all 'cos the skill difference is gigantic. People might emulate them but if they do it blindly then they're frankly stupid. There's a lot to consider, too. Public perception is a huge issue but you can't resolve it easily and I don't think balacing around the literal top end is the way to go.

[short radish]

i think balancing to make it mandatory to bring a rogue

is a basic fix

[olive canyon]

RWF is a huge event

[short radish]

basically every single class is brought for their raid buff (hahahahaha dk)

except rogue

[keen dome]

I think giving us an actual raid buff is a better way to fix it than to just give us more numbers.

[olive canyon]

A long time ago i used to raid at that level and what they were doing last tier was a far cry from what we had to do, it is so much better and a lot of people watch or play the game around the RWF.

[short radish]

and it's just because our raid "buff"

is a DR

that doesnt matter

who cares about DR when the goal of the game is to kill bosses

[keen dome]

Like someone said yesterday, give us a crit raid buff. Bam, solved (maybe).

[olive canyon]

Even your average pug likes feeling like they did well when clearing heroic cosmos or a 12 key but its all being diluted.

[short radish]

probably me 🙂

[keen dome]

It was a very good suggestion

[quaint breach]

legs it is i guess

[short radish]

just give us a +3% crit buff and call it honor amongst thieves

[keen dome]

Yeah

[olive canyon]

old school HAT rogues, fun times

[short radish]

yeah it solves it from a themastic point as well

since we used to have something similar

[keen dome]

Much like a posion toggle, something like that is just an excellent addition to the class that solves so many niche and major issues.

[olive canyon]

I am about to roll up my mage and i guarantee is dumpsters my rogue

[keen dome]

But I don't think you can solve the situation by just turnign the damage knob, which is what a lot of people want to have happen.

[olive canyon]

i had to 99 parse yesterday to beat the mage that was like 94 parsing

[short radish]

true you can't just turn a damage knob

balancing a game is harder than people think

[olive canyon]

i am pretty sure they are in this weird area where they are worried about pvp and M+

[short radish]

but there is so much more to the game than just balancing damage

such as utility

[keen dome]

It's like Eleem said yesterday, too. We were mid in TWW S3 but the raid fights were really well designed for us. And we're pretty fine this season but raid fights aren't well designed for us.

[olive canyon]

complexity in high end raiding for most raiders, not healers, comes from 2 areas - personal responsibility and the "dance" or "flow" of a fight, constant movement from a to be to c to dodge a and b, its cog overload

but they have neutered that

[short radish]

yup and also just removing niche after niche

[quasi field]

guys what site are you using for best trinket ?

[olive canyon]

This raid tier has almost no personal responsibility that is raid wiping en masse

[keen dome]

Yeah, I'm never ever going to argue against more meaningful changes to the class like AoE blind, crit buff, etc. That stuff is just good and will always have a place. I'm arguing against the whole "rogue is shit because bad damage numbers" because it misses so much of the nuance of the situation, and it isn't something you can solve without major problems.

[short radish]

used to be immune soaks with cloak

but thats barely a thing anymore

[keen dome]

Yeah

[short radish]

used to be rogue innately tanky

but now it's just healers heal

and thats not even scratching the m+ issue

single target lockdown died when cata was over or something

[keen dome]

Right now I imagine the focus is on Paladins 'cos Sub is fine on the first 4 fights, w/e. And you can't solve Rogue on Paaldins without dramatically changing it's damage profile which has repercussions in evey other are aof the game. It might just be a fight we're not good on.

[short radish]

this is also the part that bothers me. granted BFA was a decade ago or something but we got ABSOLUTELY neutered because of a single fight (zul) and have never really recovered from that

MM is in the same boat right now

[keen dome]

Yeah, shuriken combo will forever be a sore point.

[short radish]

who wants to take bets on whether MM will be neutered because of this

[keen dome]

I give it 50/50. It's hard to know.

[short radish]

it's the same with UHDK damage getting nerfed way too much and falling to last place (below aug) for two days

then they get a mid week buff

meanwhile sub gets nerf'd week-1 of raid and falls below aug for about 3-4 weeks

and we have to wait 3 fucking months to get our aoe blind back?

like where's the fucking justice

every single other class

• waaa waaa rogue

[keen dome]

Removing AoE blind made no sense.

[short radish]

but idk

[keen dome]

But again, if you look at it from the perspective of the entire game and not the very very narrow top 1% area? Rogue is fine.

[hollow spear]

I still feel like the nerfs we got have nothing to do with our current situation

[keen dome]

And I do not think Blizz should balance around the top end extremes.

But at the same time I also completely agree with us getting a proper raid buff, utility, etc. That just makes total sense and is healthy for the game.

[short radish]

my shit hot take is that "rogue is a class that brings damage, damage and only damage. Pure dps specs should always have at least one spec in the 75% percentile because they bring nothing else"

WHICH IS GENERALLY FUCKING TRUE FOR MAGE WARLOCK HUNTER

just not rogue

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[keen dome]

Yeah, I don't really disagree at all but that's such a hard thing to achieve in tuning. Also, then you get the "well I'm forced to play <X> spec" stuff which is funny so they should do it.

[hollow spear]

Revvez is pumping on arms btw

[keen dome]

Anyway here is why we should get a rogue tank spec

[short radish]

yeah give us a tank spec

or a healer spec

or just fucking anything

literally begging for one single scrap of utility

[tribal blade]

raid buff would be the simplest thing

a real one

[short radish]

you know what, i'll even take making threat a mechanic again

so tricks is needed

[keen dome]

Okay but then they need to make tricks not annoyign to use

Also making threat a mechanic again is just going to make a lot of the game miserable because most people can't handle that so while it is an interesting idea: oh no.

[hollow spear]

You use trick on another melee and ninja the boss

[short radish]

yeah it'll never happen but the m+ game is kinda miserable for rogues who cares

fuck other people

[keen dome]

Just give us Fimbulvtr's raid buff in .5

+3% crit for the raid. Bam we're in everything.

Huge gains

Rogue brings 3.6% DR and 3% crit?? huge

[short radish]

yeah that'd insta guarantee at least 1 spot

you know what

[hollow spear]

I prefer having a raid that is not complete dog arse for melee

[short radish]

give rogue +3% crit
give dk +3% haste

[tribal blade]

that sounds over the top but it's really not

[short radish]

all the stats are covered

[tribal blade]

considering how much other classes bring

[short radish]

throw paladins something else as well

[keen dome]

no

they have enough

In fact they can give the raid -1% versatility

[short radish]

nah paladin utility is also kinda whatever

devo aura is good

and you see them in every race

[keen dome]

Yeah I'm shitposting. Honestly give them +1% versatility

because they're so versatile as a class

[short radish]

but only because it doesnt hurt much to bring a paldin since they can flex healer/tank as needed

[keen dome]

Although I imagine versatility as a class buff is quite dangerous

And druids already have it

[short radish]

yeah

[keen dome]

Hmm

[short radish]

idk what to give paladins

[keen dome]

+5% speed

[short radish]

monks give that

[keen dome]

+3% avoidance?

[short radish]

shitty DR buff

[keen dome]

I'm running out of stats!!!

[short radish]

i know

[keen dome]

leech aura

[short radish]

honestly

make the DR 6%

[keen dome]

Yeah

[short radish]

make it meaningful

[keen dome]

Rounds ours to 4% too

[short radish]

priests are brought for 10% stam

[keen dome]

Yeah

[short radish]

because paladin utility in raid is kinda same as rogue

you have an immune

[keen dome]

The res is nice.

[short radish]

and super super niche bop

yeah bres is nice

thats recent though

[keen dome]

The res is legit the only thing I ever think about.

But ye; crit buff for rogue would go so hard

[short radish]

Or give us lust somehow

Again one scrap of utility

[willow bobcat]

If we get it again it better be Honor Amongst Thieves

[keen dome]

Nah, I think lust should be given to all tanks.

Which would solve an M+ issue extremely smootly and give them something for raid, too

Now every group will always have lust because every group has a tank.

[short radish]

True

I'd agree

[weak glade]

not seeing any rogues at all in the race was sad lol but i think well prolly get buffed again lol

[keen dome]

Every tank being given a Lust and every healer being given a bres is something I think would help smooth out the disparity in key content (and raid, potentially)

[hollow spear]

Even if they buff our single target by like 5-6%, we're not a great consideration. And buffing bp won't do anything, besides maybe making us crazy good in M+ if they overdo it.

Remove raid buffs

[haughty mural]

this boss is practically tailored for arms

[weak glade]

nah i think raid buffs are good

remove them in M+ tho for suyre

[stoic pawn]

bring back smoke bomb aoe damage reduction

[hollow spear]

Wasn't he pumping on saladbar too?

[stoic pawn]

or tricks damage buff

[hollow spear]

Make class stacking illegal

[keen dome]

Haha

[hollow spear]

If you start a raid encounter with more than 3 of the same spec, it logs everyone out

[keen dome]

Tricks damage buff would be interesting but I think it'd just end up being painfully awkward in actual play. I'm fully onboard the +3% crit raid buff idea.

[haughty mural]

played fury there

[keen dome]

It's going next to posion toggle on my "stuff rogue should get" list

[willow bobcat]

I dont want to be a tricks bot again

[weak glade]

They just need to either buff at posions or do that

[weak glade]

thats why trickster the goat tbh cause 60 min trick cd is fucking goated

[hollow spear]

That would give me leverage to snag a PI, I like it

I'm actually considering trying assa on crown

[tepid trellis]

surely rogue buffs tonight

surely

[hollow spear]

But I'd have to set up arcUI from scratch

Shirley, Stealthi

How warm's the bench?

[tepid trellis]

i dont raid until tmrw

[hollow spear]

Or is your gaming chair good enough to bring you?

[tepid trellis]

so we will find out

[hollow spear]

Is your guild weekend raiding?

[weak glade]

surely we get a buff

[hollow spear]

Surely we get a rework

[weak glade]

honestly i dont want a sub rework

[tepid trellis]

yes i raid saturday/sunday from 12:30 in the morning to 5:30

[weak glade]

personally at least

[glacial stag]

https://klipy.com/gifs/2omb-pray

[keen dome]

Damn, we'd really be the shadow priests then

[hollow spear]

Dang, I take it you're single then? 😅

My better half would strangle me in my sleep if I announced that

[upbeat cradle]

What if they added a small cd that increases damage and call it symbols of death or something, and a slightly longer cd that deals damage and gives energy and they could call it goremaw bite

[uneven shard]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

That wouldn't really solve anything, though.

[hollow spear]

Nimble buffed to 140%

[tepid trellis]

Am not

[keen dome]

Like, you just move the problem further down the road. Fim's idea of an actual stat% raidbuff solves the problem longer term in a way that won't just get fucked on tuning.

[weak glade]

no shot

[glacial stag]

We've never seen Stealthi GF and alleria in the same room

just sayin

[shy scarab]

Bro he have a HoF cock, why would she even leave him

[hollow spear]

Damn, that level of acceptance is crazy

[shy scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/hump-gif-18311140

[hollow spear]

Ok weird

[fossil forge]

Too far

[keen dome]

Being normal online is a difficult challenge

[tepid trellis]

She is busy playing valo and stardew anyway

[short radish]

yeah there are multiple issues that's getting conflated into one

[keen dome]

Yeah

[short radish]

there is a class issue of not having a viable raid buff

then there are separate spec issues of being undertuned

[willow bobcat]

Does she talk to you about the relationships she has in Stardew?

[short radish]

and also not having a niche applicable for the boss

what subs niche is anyomre i dunno

[keen dome]

If you just turn the damage knob you create further problems + it repeats every season and we cycle. If you fix actual utility, buff issues then that's a much more long-term resolution that improves everything

[tepid trellis]

She forces me to play it so i Can Watch all of her new stuff all the time

[willow bobcat]

Same

[keen dome]

Adorable

[hallow torrent]

goodmorning, thanks for advivces, i made over 95 logs after the adices i got here

[weak glade]

https://giphy.com/gifs/sad-cry-sadness-H6cmWzp6LGFvqjidB7

[keen dome]

raid leading

[weak glade]

me rn

[hallow torrent]

i got other one quest, whetstone or oil?

[glacial stag]

so lucky. My GF eyes rolls so hard when i even mention wow

[hollow spear]

That was my gf in that game that came with the switch. What was it called?

[hallow torrent]

what is more profit for dps in raid wise

[keen dome]

I imagine Oil

[tepid trellis]

Oil

[weak glade]

simming oil does more no?

[hallow torrent]

yes but stonne,doest benefit for battleshout too?

[shy scarab]

Haha find a new one😅

[weak glade]

ur luky i dont even have a gf or a bf lol

:)

I just play rogue all day and go to school and shi lol

[hollow spear]

Sucks for you

The rogue part I mean

[weak glade]

LOL

nah honestly i love how sub plays this season

[glacial stag]

DW mate its school and tryhard time

[shy scarab]

Hahaha bro, i split with enhance shammy

[glacial stag]

You have plenty to find your loved one

[weak glade]

its undertuned

[shy scarab]

Guess it even sucks more for me LOL

[weak glade]

yea i graduate with a degree in 2 months :)

[glacial stag]

yoo insane

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[glacial stag]

GGs mate

[keen dome]

What'cha studying?

[weak glade]

English

[hallow torrent]

well whetstone is pretty expensive to craft,why is so low then?

[keen dome]

Rad

[shy scarab]

Sheeeesh, girls will come when u get big pocket

[weak glade]

frrrrrr maybe then rogue can be op again :)

[hollow spear]

My gf played GW2 with me and one night I caught her practicing on the dummy for 2 hours. Proud moment.

[shy scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/beyonce-ring-singe-ladies-put-a-ring-on-it-gif-5598751

[tepid trellis]

She knows my hobby is wow. But it does help that she plays games herself. She also doesent mind me playing weekends cuz neither of us wants to leave the House

Works well when both are shut ins

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hollow spear]

Yeah good match

[tepid trellis]

If she starts complaining ill Cut her off From her starbucks orders

[hollow spear]

I like that mine is fine staying in but also needs to go out from time to time. Helps me get off my ass and see the world 😅

[weak glade]

thats harsh lol

[glacial stag]

feel you on this one

if not for her i would just play 10hours/day every weekend

[tepid trellis]

She should use her own Card then and not mine

[hollow spear]

I've spent too much of my life playing wow already. I'm almost 34, never thought I'd still play this game atp.

No ragrets.

[glacial stag]

yeah thats crazy. 29 here and still rocking it i guess lol

[keen dome]

big same

[shy scarab]

Same played since i was 12 LUL

[keen dome]

I will never log out.

[tepid trellis]

Boomers

[weak glade]

my dad had me playing when i was 6 on his acc

[shy scarab]

I told myself this will be my last hof tier but herr we are

😬😬😬

[keen dome]

I woke up with back pain yesterday. My age is catching up with me. I gotta exercise more.

[tribal blade]

@chrome palm i was wrong it's the same target, but imagine if this hit an extra target and you genned CP like it did

[shy scarab]

Yea gotta do some lifting to keep the engine running bro

[keen dome]

Yeee

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I'm back in the gym this afternoon

[keen dome]

My job is physical which is pretty good for it though.

[shy scarab]

Yea but its still good anyways

[hollow spear]

Prophet, stop trying to make us great again

It's over for us

We're here reminiscing about where our youth went

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna make a wow forum essay at some point possibly

[keen dome]

Just make one asking for a raid buff

[hollow spear]

Don't forget the emotes

[tribal blade]

that's the easiest solution yeah

[hollow spear]

Never forget the emotes

[tribal blade]

lol if you're talking about that guy

malfic?

[hollow spear]

I would never

Haven't seen his latest takes

[tribal blade]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[hollow spear]

That's the saving grace

[keen dome]

I should make a post about a posion toggle

[hollow spear]

Maybe they would have brought exile if he had a poison toggle

[keen dome]

Posion toggle is a state of mind. And also would apply to every class / spec that has a buff. Instead of a dumb 60 minute duration, you turn it on and it's on.

Rebuffing made easy. Not having to ask people to buff every pull 'cos they forget to push.

[hollow spear]

Yeah it's stupid

[keen dome]

It feels like such basic QoL.

[hollow spear]

Just give us the buff for existing

When would you ever not want mark or intellect

Oh no, I'm too intelligent, better click it off

https://tenor.com/view/homer-crayon-homernose-gif-15523071

[tribal blade]

outlaw being a ramp spec i'm confused about

what ramp

[keen dome]

He does seem very pvp centric in that post

[hollow spear]

The ramp you take them to yeet them off

[keen dome]

Why does he have 25k posts, goddamn

[tribal blade]

mmm maybe

this guy literally just posts

[shy scarab]

Nørd

[tribal blade]

and does no content in game

[keen dome]

Well, arguably, that's his content then

[tribal blade]

also saying sin is the most complex rogue spec

[tribal blade]

is hilarious

[keen dome]

Maybe in PvP? I dunno. I doubt it though.

[tribal blade]

nah it's not

[keen dome]

But to me it does read as being from the perspective of PvP and not really PvE but.. Yeah.

[tribal blade]

true

this isn't even that bad from him

[tepid trellis]

luk røven og pull bossen din nørd (very good danish guild clip from Amirdrassil)

[tribal blade]

i've seen much much worse

[shy scarab]

Haaahhahahahha

[keen dome]

He's wrong anyway, rupture was pointless bloat and sucked.

[tribal blade]

LOL i have better pvp gear than him right now

[tribal blade]

and i just pvped to get 1600 for cata

ok enough hate stalking

i get unreasonably annoyed at people who just spout their opinions non stop in /2 or the forums but don't actually do anything in game

there's a group of people on my server who talk in trade chat literally all day long

don't do anything

[keen dome]

[tribal blade]

they duel each other once in a while and make sure everyone knows about it

argue politics

bully people

can't stand them

[keen dome]

Ye there's a lot of them on every server.

I find it funny most of the time. A lot of the common stuff atm is "I can't get into any keys"

[tribal blade]

it's sad

oh that's kinda different

at least those people are actually trying to play the game

[keen dome]

Yes but then it turns out they've set the ilevel requirement to 260 for a +2

[tribal blade]

LOL

[keen dome]

I think a lot of people tell on themselves in trade / forums though.

[tribal blade]

that's amazing

the best part is these people are constantly on new toons

with new names

because they keep getting banned or silenced

1 guy uses slurs all the time

[keen dome]

Yeah. My favourite posts are "You can't say anything in this game or you get banned"

[tribal blade]

that annoys me

[keen dome]

I've been playing for 16 years. I'm super argumentative at times. I've never once been silenced or suspended.

[tribal blade]

yes turns out when you bully people there are consequences

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

yup me too

20+ years

never so much as a warning

[keen dome]

Yep.

[tribal blade]

and i used to lose my cool on people sometimes

in the past

[keen dome]

And I've absolutely been blunt with people in pugs and raid leading, etc. But there's a line and you just don't cross it.

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[keen dome]

Doing Ovi'nax and I kicked someone for failing the egg mechanic twice (ran to the wrong slice). Then they whisper me and call me a fascist and other slurs.

Also the people who, when you decline them from raid groups, they whisper you slurs / insults. Like, is that going to make me more likely to invite you somehow?? And then they wonder why they get silenced.

It's really funny

[tribal blade]

that sucks

[keen dome]

It's hilarious

[tribal blade]

i'm a big believer in treating people online like you would in person

[keen dome]

I def lose my cool though. It's very hard not to snap at people when they're failing the same mechanic again and again and again and refusing to improve, or learn. And you are hard stuck waiting for them to get it right.

The 1% wipes on heroic Imperator were hella frustrating

[lilac stag]

It could be worse. They could be playing a rogue

[keen dome]

I've had more Rogues in raid groups this season than I have in years

[lilac stag]

“Our” mythic trinket dropped from first boss yesterday. It went to our blood dk

[keen dome]

Ancedotally, it's way more popular this season.

[lilac stag]

that was a depressing vote from the sidelines in rcloot

[keen dome]

I can imagine..

[weak glade]

really?

i quite literally have not seen one rogue in ANY group aside from me

[keen dome]

Yeah, I mean, ancedotally so it's not actual evidence but it def feels like there's more around atm.

[sleek socket]

skinning or herbalism for making gold?

[weak glade]

dude omg my guild fuckled up the fear breath on H dragons so much

we wiped 12 times on that shit

[keen dome]

Haha yeah. It was painful in pugs.

Although it's only really bad in the first 'cycle' of the fight when Vaelgor is on the ground. Once you get past that, it's relatively simple.

Even in the final cycle before the enrage I think Vaelgor only dread breaths.. 3 times in total during the whole thing?

[weak glade]

sometimes right before first intermish he would just do a fear breath lol

like the spell queuing is fucked

[river coral]

so another boss dead without rogue? blizzard cooked this tier for sure

[vale pine]

gz liquid to world first, also F for rogue

[balmy gate]

Yeah our guild wants that i Switch to bc of this world First think haha i Just left

[hollow vessel]

Yeah the amount of rogues in RWF is kinda sad

[steady fern]

do you think we get a major buff or should we just reroll?

[balmy gate]

I hope for big changes must be

[brazen stone]

Sub or sin in keys atm?

Which better

[agile kernel]

I think the problem is way more layered. Rogue is failing on multiple levels, beyond just one spec. Lack of utility, lack of good two or three target cleave damage (with every boss being this type of fight), typical issues regarding melee uptime on GCD locked specs. The class simply was not designed to perform in their new raid design and I don't think they have the nutsack required to rework an entire class again after completely failing the first time months prior.

[torn storm]

When they reworked rogue in dragonflight it was sick as fuck

Then they released hero talents and they suck ass

[shadow snow]

gpt prompted talents thats why

[steady fern]

well okay thanks, i think in this way its better to reroll furry or ret pala

[vital ocean]

This question has most likely been asked before this week

but how many Myth crest you all spend? 80 on dagger or 160 on dagger+belt?

currently ive send dagger, and im waiting for mythic raid sunday to see if i get any loot

[jaunty heath]

What a flex being in mythic raid as rogue

[vital ocean]

[mint folio]

Massives inc

[unique beacon]

Hi, anything I'm missing why the sub wowhead guide suggests to craft belt as 2nd craft instead of wrists? Seems like wrists would be better in the long run as it has lower stats

[unkempt walrus]

a 250ilvl guidon is simming higher than a 276 puzzle box, can that really be right?

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure, but given the tiny amount of attention rogue historically gets

always thinking about simple solutions

i feel like if you can bring it to blizz's attention and offer super simple ideas to help

changes maybe more likely to happen

massive revamps of stuff like what other classes get

just ain't happening on rogue

[unreal silo]

doing the obvious easy bugfixes would be a great start so at least it works as it should

[tribal blade]

i don't think bug fixes would do anything really

not unless they increased our throughput by a lot

[jaunty heath]

It dosnt matter

They dont bring any melee to fight beside those they really have to

[tribal blade]

yeah

[jaunty heath]

Its all blizzard fault

[tribal blade]

i dunno what it is about rogue that they're so afraid to be good

[sinful zephyr]

I prefer they put their time into developing nice mechanics for rogue..couldnt care less what rwf guilds do

[tribal blade]

that we got the most miniscule buffs last tuning cycle

[spare crypt]

youre probably missing haste on gear and its prioritizing hitting the haste breakpoint

[jaunty heath]

What rwf do impact many other guilds decision.

[tribal blade]

yeah a lot of guilds look to RWF and copy paste everything

with 0 thought about how the level they're raiding at is not RWF

[pulsar cape]

I dont know if putting like 600 haste for 1.3 extra seconds on shadow dance is worht it tbh

[tribal blade]

my guild's last heroic paladins kill i did almost as much dmg as the 2 MM hunters in my guild

[daring raptor]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[tepid trellis]

did they not have a bow equipped?

[tribal blade]

lol i have no idea

i'm tempted to say why

but i kinda feel bad about bad mouthing

needless to say i know how to press buttons

[alpine wraith]

maybe they were bm

instead of mm

just he didnt know how to read too

can happen

or they died 1 min in

[jaunty heath]

Stealthi how did your triple rogue situation went, I remember you said you have another 2 rogue players and maybe will play dh

[tribal blade]

haha nah only our WW died i checked

[alpine wraith]

possible also that their bow broke midfight

[tribal blade]

hahaha nah

it's the same on every fight

[graceful osprey]

Maybe blizzard was right, BP was OP

[tribal blade]

maybe they shouldn't have nerfed based on M0 data

which is completely fake

and means absolutely nothing

i assume they nerfed based on that?

[keen dome]

Who knows what metric they use, it's such a black box.

But I wouldn't be shocked to learn it is based off public data lol

[tribal blade]

i think it definitely does

because sub was being regarded as OP from people running M0s

[keen dome]

Yeah

But they ALSO had beta data, too.

[tribal blade]

just because of our instant burst profile

[keen dome]

Which is possibly what they were using.

[tribal blade]

mmm yeah could be

[keen dome]

But it's also not a good picture.

[tribal blade]

but sub wasn't even the best spec on beta

yeah

[keen dome]

Picking the point to balance is very difficult, I imagine. But also getting accurate data 'cos if you leave it too late, then you end up nerfing during the Mythic prog periord.

Do you do it based on median heroic data, top end? bottom end? M+? Mythic?

[alpine wraith]

well in their data rogue might be fine

we are in the middle of the stackl

problem is

[keen dome]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

that is only a part of the whole picture

of why you invite something

and we might not even have problems getting into raids in their head

[keen dome]

It's like the Paladin buff back in TWW S2 where they were, at a heroic median level, underperforming but at the top end, doing very well. so they buffed them and the top end now did even better and it smoothed the median out

[alpine wraith]

or m+

[graceful osprey]

Sub feels good in m+ right now at least so far from what I’ve experienced. Could use a few more tools or whatever but it feels good.

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's a utility / buff issue.

[alpine wraith]

yea feels good until you do a big pull

and see people using their things

while you are

IM IN DANCE I DO DAMAGE

[keen dome]

Haha

[alpine wraith]

I DO DAMAGE

[keen dome]

I beat a devourer at the same iLevel in an 11 yesterday

Sub is fine

[tribal blade]

the amount of constant target swapping i'm having to do right now

[keen dome]

It's not bad, it's not exceptional

[tribal blade]

to blind/kidney/cheap stuff

is aggravating

[grizzled hornet]

feels good in 10s when you kill everything fast, you will do nothing compared to meta classes in higher keys

[alpine wraith]

our dmg is still fine they just do so much more

we are past the days of legion M+ where pulls have 2 casters and 1 mechanic

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah

[alpine wraith]

now you have 4 aoes going 5 casters

1 immune guy with high hp

[tribal blade]

don't forget right now in 10s we have mast buff which we double dip with

[alpine wraith]

shields you need to break etc

[tribal blade]

once you get to 12s

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

that's not there anymore

[alpine wraith]

someone made a funny thread saying 12s are easier now because all the bonobos are getting to +10

and running it down

[tribal blade]

LOL

[alpine wraith]

managing to deplete

[tribal blade]

it's funny though

10s feel piss easy

12+ feels much more challenging

so far

[alpine wraith]

i have only done 1 12 because we forgot to down the key from a 14 to 11

because we 3 chested a 11

and though we only +2

and it was seat of course

[tribal blade]

lol foc

ofc

i've done 1 13

[alpine wraith]

still timed it but the chains guy had hands

[tribal blade]

but i'm not in mega push mode

just playing with the boys

it's really nice pushing with my guild key group

and not worrying about getting more IO when they go to bed

or if they want to do alt keys

i can just vibe and do w/e

[lyric patrol]

Well on the bright site if we have to sit on raid it wont be for too long...

[dreamy root]

sub looks like its in the same spot as last season for m+ does good damage, but wont be brought to higher keys cause other classes can do the same damage and bring utility

[tribal blade]

definitely is yeah

[lilac stag]

Just PvP if you want to push on sub.

We’re great there. lol

[keen dome]

Haha

From a 24 to

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[spice thistle]

with light company guidon and 4set, do we always delay 2nd dance to lineup with SB and ST? or only on BL?

[lilac stag]

nice. 4pc gaming now?

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

without lust it's kinda sus

[keen dome]

One-shot it too because this group actually understands tyr wrath mechanic

[alpine wraith]

it is super tight

[keen dome]

Which is what 99% of pugs are wiping to

[tribal blade]

doesn't feel worth without lust

[alpine wraith]

yea i dont risk it

[spice thistle]

hmm when i tried it in m+ now i always have 1-2s of SB left to fit in the ST

[tribal blade]

yeah i just slam the 2nd dance back to back

[spice thistle]

so dont see any risk there

[alpine wraith]

because you have to get into the last second of guidon too

shadowblades is not the important part my friend

[tribal blade]

yeah but think of all the dance you're not having in blades

[alpine wraith]

it is not losing the guidon haste buff

[spice thistle]

how come? if i could fit the ST, it meant i didn't lose it or am i missing something out?

[spice thistle]

true, just wondering as new to sub but been mythic assa

[golden birch]

in m+ u SB for puzzle or keep it as a 3min trinket ?

[spice thistle]

and reading guide/watching logs its confusing as where to delay the dance or not

[alpine wraith]

keep it as 3 min

you have 3 goals with delaying dance

1 of those is getting sec tech with supercharger

another is not losing the guidon buff before dance otherwise you lose 1 or 2 secs of extend

and finally getting as much blades as possible in that dance

if any of those 3 would fail

you are better not trying to delay

[tribal blade]

every time i've tried to delay without lust up

i've regretted it

[alpine wraith]

yea you need to wait almost until guidon is at 0 secs

like the last literal second

krangled as f

[wicked fox]

Hi I pref to play Assa, but I have a lot more dmg on sub (so I'm playing it), is it normal or with equivalent gear and skill they can have equal dmg?

[alpine wraith]

unless you send early before first dance then rng the not extend of first one

[tribal blade]

is there actually any way to track guidon on the base UI

[keen dome]

Not really

[alpine wraith]

you may be able to track it somehow but you would want also the 0.x secs too

[keen dome]

Which sucks

[tribal blade]

damn

trinkets should be trackable in the tracked buffs

as trinket 1 and trinket 2

[keen dome]

Yeah, I was saying that the other day. It's such an annoying oversight

Just let us track equipped trinkets

[tribal blade]

would be dope

[grizzled hornet]

i am able to track guidon on my cdm buffs

i use ayije cdm tho

[lilac stag]

are you tracking the buff or the trinket cd

[grizzled hornet]

the on use buff

i am at work though right now, dont have access to the game right now to show you ill tag you when i do

[lilac stag]

no worries. Just making sure. There’s often confusion here of what is actually getting tracked.

Either or it’s krangled outside of lust

imagine a 90 second trinket making puzzle box look attractive

[grizzled hornet]

i am tracking both trink's cd and the on use buff to be specific

[lilac stag]

here we are

[keen dome]

I got puzzle box from a dungeon last night and I coudln't trade it away. It was tragic.

Now I have it in my bags. Haunting me.

[lilac stag]

I’ve gotten it twice. Gave one to our hunter

[tribal blade]

he doesn't need the gear

disgusting hunters right now

spit on him

[lilac stag]

It makes our keys go faster.

Just like rogue on bench makes mythic prog go faster.

[tribal blade]

eternal tears

[lilac stag]

it really is an outlaw tier

We’re all benched

thanks Obama

[alpine wraith]

that is why you need to play in a worse guild like me

[lilac stag]

We’re US 500

[alpine wraith]

we just killed 2 M bosses and now on chima guy

[lilac stag]

We also have 28 on the roster right now

[graceful osprey]

Does it sound right that that the two haste trinkets sim a bit lower than the agi/mastery trinket from the world boss and the trinket from the orc ghost in Windrunner spire?

[lilac stag]

too many variables in the question

[graceful osprey]

I am at the haste sweet spot

[hazy breach]

Idk

[weak glade]

Just play in a guild that’s ass like me fr

You’ll always be in then 🤪

[vivid phoenix]

Just be the Raidlead or the Guildlead

[weak glade]

I’m in a guild good enough to get CE but not good enough to have a competitive roster

So i get hella gear and push mythic +

Life’s great

[jaunty heath]

i have nice ragebait by one of our officer, asking me after raid if i get dagger (when i was benched for boss)

so i assume they roster me on wrong boss or something 😄

[jade urchin]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[zealous kindle]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[drifting ether]

I was just siming with top gear search, the shaggy leggings is siming less than 5p set. I was wondering if thats the same for anyone else
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8xtaDF4XNVrkTwVNNyKdK2

[onyx flame]

Well thank you kind sir

[alpine wraith]

it is possible stats are quite dynamic

the best combination does not mean the single pieces are the best always

[graceful osprey]

New rogue spec will be the opposite of subtlety called barbarian Rogue

[drifting ether]

Ahh i see, i guess i'll still hunt for the bis pieces and go from there

[neon fractal]

Hey guys for sub rotation, do you wait for secret tech to completely come off cd before you dance, or can you dance when sec tech has 3-4 seconds left so you still get to use it with dance

[alpine wraith]

depends on the situation

[vale pine]

you usually dance when secret is ready

only exception is the tier set + trinket optimization

and some special cases on bosses you might need the burst to pad on adds

[static jolt]

is there any command to show how to use the guidon trinket ?

oh nvm the pins

lmfao im dumb af

[open depot]

Guidon

Cds

[verbal kelp]

If we have 4set but no guidon we don’t delay right? Just follow normal rotation

[ripe moon]

why do we cast blades during shadow dance, not slightly before?

[stone vessel]

is my haste too high?

[open depot]

Too low

[grizzled hornet]

Haste (to 684+ raw stat)

[short radish]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[short radish]

@white badger

[sweet moss]

Subtlety
Deathstalker
Deathstalker’s Mark has been updated – Shadowstrike applies 3 stacks of Deathstalker’s Mark to your target, unless Deathstalker’s Mark is already active. You learn Mark for Death. When you spend 5 or more combo points on attacks against a Marked target you consume an application of Deathstalker’s Mark, dealing 120% Plague damage.
Mark for Death: Move your active Deathstalker’s Mark to your target. 10 yard range, 20 second cooldown, 25 Energy, and not on the global cooldown.
Developers’ notes: Mark for Death is intended to be a tool to allow Deathstalker Rogues to move their Deathstalker’s Mark to a new target in a scenario where their primary target hasn’t died, such as a priority add appearing. The cost is intended to be affordable, but meaningful. We want the target you choose to mark for death to remain an important investment.

does this do anything

lmao

[hazy breach]

Kind of. You wont have the mark bug out and get stuck on something now

But also you almost surely want to snipe the mark on a low health add so it dies and you get Darkest Night

Which is bleh

[arctic scroll]

WAIT WAIT

[alpine wraith]

you can also change target when the other has 1 or 2 marks

[arctic scroll]

can we use swords as off hands ???

[alpine wraith]

yea but we wont

[hazy breach]

Yes but its horrible

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[alpine wraith]

you can also use bows btw

[short radish]

you can xmog it

[arctic scroll]

aight

[hazy breach]

But yeah you can transmog to swords now

[arctic scroll]

Thanks

[warm vale]

guys when im doing m+ sometimes i run out of energy and i cant rly do any damage i just wait it out till i get shadow dance aghain, am i doing smthn wrong ?

[tacit yew]

hey there. does anyone know if it's a bug or supposed to be like that? i just realised i can stack the supercharges from the "supercharge" talent? is it possible to prestack them before M+ then to start with all 7 charges?

[arctic scroll]

also, anyone knows exactly why it s not worth using st when you got ancient arts up ?

[arctic scroll]

it resets at 2 stacks

[tacit yew]

ah damn thanks tho

[hazy breach]

Pulling a raid boss and starting a key resets it down to 2

[hazy breach]

Nope thats fine, outside of dance you dont have infinite energy

[hazy breach]

It doesnt do as much damage as it should, but its not like its horrible to use it

Its just not worth aiming for

[arctic scroll]

thx

so its bugged

thats good to hear

[hazy breach]

Unlikely to get fixed though

[gilded ferry]

anyone else having issues to ss after a vanish?

[graceful crown]

Its probably a macro

Or if you are too close of the target and your autoattsck comes early than your ss

[karmic harbor]

what's st

sectech?

[graceful crown]

Yes

[karmic harbor]

wtf

so my blades+dance+sectec macro is troll

or what

[arctic scroll]

no

its good

[graceful crown]

You dont lose too much

[arctic scroll]

you re better off using ancient arts procs on evi and powder

[graceful crown]

Its just sech loses clones it just copy your first strike of sectech

My english is perfect

[hazy breach]

Nah it doesnt matter

Its fine to use it on sectech, it does about the same as an eviscerate/bp

If it wasnt bugged it would be doing a lot more

[dire ravine]

just me and my two against the world

[bronze turret]

i have a fundamental mechanic-question about this version of sub

what. is. the. point. of. cps. with. this. sub?

played it a bit more now and it just feels like ur constantly swimming in sht and its basically just idk, build finish

[dreamy stump]

hey guys, sim tells me i can have up to 15% more dps, but i wont have the 18% haste, is it normal ? should i go for the sim call ?

[bronze turret]

feels incredibly stupid

[hazy breach]

The bis profile in the sim wastes around 15% of all Sht stacks

By overcapping

[bronze turret]

can imagine

its such a pointless mechanic

[hazy breach]

Removing the combo points from blades is neutral if the sim is only during bl

[bronze turret]

i truly dont dislike how it plays overall

its kinda fun

but the sht mechanic is just annoying as shit

cus i see the 14 number all the time

and idk why it exists

the only time you actually lose some stacks is if you SPAM backstab+finish in downtime

[upper narwhal]

I wish there was a string I could use to force higher haste when simming, bot always wants exact haste no wiggle room

[bronze turret]

if they want to add some more depth to sub, i feel like i'm also missing a button tbh, they could let you consume 3 stacks for a dmg buff or something

would make the setup and gameplay a bit more engaging

[hazy breach]

How much (in percentage) of combo points do you think comes from sht (on ST/6+ aoe respectively)

[bronze turret]

i have no idea

too scared to guess

[hazy breach]

Like 75/45

So like the combo points generated by your spells are kinda irrelevant

All that matters is the sht

[bronze turret]

is that cus of the shadows giving 2

[hazy breach]

Partly that but also massively increased attack speed

[bronze turret]

ye

[hazy breach]

compared to previous versions

Which also makes it so you have to repair your daggers fucking constantly

[bronze turret]

pop indestructible

if it exists

[hazy breach]

Ye it does

[bronze turret]

but ye i am just lowkey irritated at the design of current sht

how can they miss the mark so widely

increase dmg and lower the number of sht

[hazy breach]

And make sht more obvious

Make it every 4th attack

Instead of every 3.5 on average

[alpine wraith]

more than once finishers and builders could cost more energy with us having like 4 energy talents

but nah

[pseudo verge]

i saw yesterday someone posted similar macro that i use and somebody replied that its not good but i didn't catch the reason can someone explain?

[limpid sage]

It does feel a little weird that sub has legit no energy management ye

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message
Last question and/or pins

[bronze turret]

no energy or cp management

the only thing you manage is supercharger and apex?

[limpid sage]

Ye + you want to have control over when you use pot

[vestal escarp]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[grave cradle]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[delicate wedge]

I am simming 73k DPS but only doing 61,5k on bosses, what is wrong in my rotation? Can someone help me? 😄

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yRcX4xD9hkPVtYbp?fight=70&type=damage-done&source=1721

[smoky estuary]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[quick marlin]

ure wasting 1 full second of shadow dance

on all of ur burst

s

[humble rover]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[lilac stag]

It’s this weird dual cp management where the base doesn’t take much at all, and the “extended” cps are what you focus on, some times, maybe.

So much dmg tied into our tier, yet again, even after getting vers deleted as a secondary.

like wtf are we doing here

[chilly kite]

do we think, we get tuneing announcement

[lilac stag]

don’t hold you breath unless blizzard says fuck it and it’s a 2 boss race

[chilly kite]

its pretty god damn disheartening to parse 95-99 and lose in overall damage to mages with 15+ ilvl lower

[lilac stag]

after RWF hopefully.

[hazy breach]

Hey blizzard can we benefit from BL and haste buffs in raid?
Ye sure heres some arbitrary haste cap you need from your gear, oh and we explicitly made it not work with BL so its actually worse now

[delicate wedge]

this is the main issue? Its hard to aline all CDs without the macro and I didn't want to use it

[quick marlin]

well you re not gonna do ur sim dps every time

if ure within 90% of it its ok

[lilac stag]

Here’s a nice trinket. That’s fucking cancer because reasons with talents.

how do you miss the mark so badly on all three rogue specs tuning wise. Vibe coded tuning could do a better job at this point

[chilly kite]

bro we need jesus at this point

[hazy breach]

You kinda need to macro Sectech with dance. Think of it this way, you do practically no damage outside of dance right

So you getting 7 globals almost every dance instead of 8

[smoky estuary]

looking at a top 5 parse and I can't see the shadow dance usage

[hazy breach]

Is you losing like 1/8 of your damage

[bronze turret]

really?

[hazy breach]

Press casts > then timeline

[hazy breach]

Well yeah or get more haste to make your dance longer

[bronze turret]

i have a question, do you dance between sec tech cds early on

with blades up

[smoky estuary]

ty

[bronze turret]

or do you always just line them up

[hazy breach]

Idk it all depends on your haste

And if you have tier

And if you have the haste on-use

[bronze turret]

neither

[lilac stag]

Right now with my haste and 2pc I’m sending a no Sec tech dance.

[bronze turret]

or well i have like 18% haste cus its leveling gear

[smoky estuary]

looks like people are ignoring apex talent and hes got a cool macro that uses dance shadow blade and secret tech all in one button

[hazy breach]

But ye like, if your dance is 7.2 seconds long, having a 0.2s delay inbetween you pressing dance and pressing sectech (which is a very normal amount of time to have inbetween the buttons)

Then you lose a gcd in dance

[lilac stag]

Too early. And without lust trying to hold out for 2nd dance and Sectech in blades is misery

[hazy breach]

All this haste jank has forced us to optimize in increments of 0.1s instead of 1s

[sleek socket]

why my ST doing less dmg than my evis? any other rogue have the ST as highest dmg, what im doing wrong?

[lilac stag]

Not sending it at full cps with dance as fist cast

other than that post logs

[delicate wedge]

We need 19% haste right?

[exotic steeple]

still sitting at 1p

[smoky estuary]

what im seein in this guys parse is after using shadow blades for the 2nd time he doesnt use dance after it expires during shadowblade and waits until secret tech is up

is that the best method?

[hazy breach]

Need is an overstatement, but yes you want around 700 haste

[lilac stag]

684-700 not a percent. More is likely better for most people.

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message
If you have 4p and guidon yes

[hazy breach]

As mentioned in the faq

[smoky estuary]

I see

i got like 1 tier piece

qq

[exotic steeple]

is it worth to use a charge for 2set? if done raid reclear and still sitting at 1p?

[tall girder]

2p strong

[hazy breach]

Youll get a catalyst charge next week

So if you have done all the raid you can, have 1p and 2 catalyst charges

Then sure

[astral axle]

• With Midnight Season 1 4 piece + Light Company Guidon you ideally want your second :ShadowDance: during :ShadowBlades: to be supercharging :SecretTechnique:. So cast the second :ShadowDance: right when :SecretTechnique: has 2 seconds left of its cooldown and have it be the second finisher.

Thank you Eleem for maintaining a nice FAQ was about to ask this question ♥️

[hazy breach]

Youll be getting the 4p on reset anyway without needing to do any raid

[exotic steeple]

how

[smoky estuary]

im like mostly all champion and hero gear is it worth doing lfr just for a tier piece

[tall girder]

my based tech is to dance with 5 seconds remaining on sec tech and then stand there bc i did it too early

[astral axle]

you get a charge for free every other week

[exotic steeple]

yea tho but rn im sitting on 1p and 1 charge, next week gonna be 1p and 2 charges and potentially again no tier set

from raid

[tall girder]

vault slots

[exotic steeple]

ah yea

[astral axle]

do you not have any leather gear?

:V

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[exotic steeple]

how i forgot aboutt aht

[tall girder]

but if u have 1p and 2 charges

surely u get 4p

[sleek socket]

so i need to guidon b4 first dance? or b4 every other dance mid fight?

[tall girder]

before u dance

[exotic steeple]

im doing +10s for crests and hope to get hero track piece for the charge, but i only seem to be getting trinkets and back lmao

[hazy breach]

Everytime you use the trinket

[astral axle]

fwiw even if you send on champ or w/e you loot charges for catalyst after you get 4 piece. worth it to send to get 4p asap

dont needa be picky about it being hero piece

[exotic steeple]

yea but dont dont want to this week waste it on champ

[hazy breach]

Its not waste

Is what he is saying

[quick marlin]

you re not wasting it, as soon as you have 4pc you unlock the ability to drop catalyst charges

[astral axle]

[exotic steeple]

yea but what if i dont get tier in vault

[tall girder]

i sent charges for 4p this week and got 3 charges sitting in my currency

unluggy

[oblique stream]

Weekend will be nice to farm 10s for upgrades instead of just squeezing 2-3 in after work with no upgrades 😝

[sleek socket]

use it even if im 19% haste already?

[tall girder]

i mean if ur sitting on 1p just send the charge for 2p

the gain from 2p is huge

[exotic steeple]

i will but i want to use it on a hero track

from m+

[tall girder]

u do u big man

losing out on a massive dmg increase bc rng loot

[lilac stag]

You’ll have 3 charges on reset.

[exotic steeple]

yea but only spamming +10s this week anyways

and dmg is enough for that

[oblique stream]

The cats drop quick once you hit 4 piece so don’t worry TOO much about saving for hero track or greater

3-4 out of normal raid

[astral axle]

[steep siren]

How bad is the downtime on sub max level?

playing a level 80 rn and I feel like I never have energy.

[tall girder]

outside of dance spec is energy starved

[left ledge]

You are quite garbage until cap too

[still gazelle]

I feel like with 4pc and guidon I'm often approaching my next Sblades with sectec/dance ready 10 seconds or more before Sblades is. What do?

[left ledge]

Sub does not have a fun levelling experience

[still gazelle]

Send or hold for Sblades?

[lilac stag]

Curse at the shit trinket and talent with haste scaling

[left ledge]

You can hold if it’s 10 sec

That’s fine

[still gazelle]

If it's more send sectec/dance and hold blades for the next set yeah?

[left ledge]

Yes

[still gazelle]

Welp. That makes sense. At least pull feels better now.

[left ledge]

In some cases you will only one dance in blades too

Just don’t force it too hard

[still gazelle]

Just line up what you can when you can yeah?

Obviously adjusting to your dungeon and where you're at etc?

[left ledge]

Yeah

[astral axle]

i like subtlety

[radiant swift]

is it troll to use haste flask as band aid till 700 haste?

[alpine wraith]

not really

you can sim it and see what happens

[radiant swift]

are the strings for all food etc in tc ?

[astral axle]

Sure it isn't as efficient but can just do quick sim

[grave cradle]

copy=Mastery
flask=flask_of_the_magisters_2

copy=Haste
flask=flask_of_the_blood_knights_2

copy=Crit
flask=flask_of_the_shattered_sun_2

copy=Versatility
flask=flask_of_thalassian_resistance_2

put that under your simc in an advanced sim

[spice crag]

is heart of wind still bis m+ passive trinket considering same ilvls?

if you have guidon?

[valid yoke]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vast dust]

Hi ya’ll. Back playing Rogue after a long hiatus away (since 2008). Looking for general advice and tips on how to get my DPS up. Any dungeon or raiding tips on positioning or play style, etc. Gearing up with good gear and stats is easy to figure out but my DPS is slacking and want to work on that however else I can.

Keybindings, macros, mouse binding, etc.

Be kind! lol

[vale osprey]

Why are the cheeky sims suggesting me gear that'd drop me below 684 hmm

[ember yarrow]

why do we need +700 haste for sub? I know haste increases dance time but why specifically 700 and not higher?

[atomic salmon]

Diminishing returns

[ember yarrow]

so 700 is the stat cap?

[atomic salmon]

Not the cap just less bang for your buck

[ember yarrow]

or softcap*

[crystal bone]

we need a command for haste

[golden thunder]

is there a command to see all commands ?

[north garnet]

sent hero on my head chest and legs

[vale osprey]

oh it's suggesting I get gear that absolutely crashes my haste because the robot needs literally 100 less haste than we do for the 0.4sec window to be accounted for

[quick marlin]

yes

[lilac stag]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

Start there. Pick whichever guide layout you prefer.

Learn the basics. Then focus more on min/max

[vast dust]

Been reading them and going over things. Appreciate.

I feel like my positioning, hesitation to start DPS right with tank and catching up to the group keeping my DPS opportunities down at the moment. As in, I’m not maximizing my up time and getting into melee range.

[lilac stag]

ez fix. Get into melee. Stay in range.

[supple barn]

These emoji are bis

[rough birch]

!log

[timid trellis]

what is a good keybind setup for the abilitys , never played sub , pls help:)

[arctic abyss]

sigh cant even get a mythic group ugh

[vast dust]

Totally agree. Practicing playing WAY more aggressive as I get more used to each dungeon and raid.

Also just realized I’ve been holding Shadow Dance for Single Target and not dancing for AOE in my rotation. That right there will ramp things up big time

[balmy gate]

dont worry my alt is a warlock demo 260 cant find group either

[rough birch]

Do you double dance on every SB use?

[arctic abyss]

high key = no rogues allowed

[south kernel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lyric patrol]

Well even getting into a 10 is annoying sometimes....perks of being non meta

[vast dust]

Yes. But only been doing for single/double targets

[warped fox]

Gotta start your own group 🤷‍♂️

[lyric patrol]

Im high enough ilvl and score that its not a big deal but still get lots of declines lol

[arctic abyss]

I mean thats the point... shouldn't have to 😛

[warped fox]

Lol someone has to start the group. Only way to guarantee a spot!

[rough birch]

How do you time up the next Sec Tech with SD? Just hold on to it until it comes?

[warped fox]

Then you can kick every rogue that applies

[vast dust]

I have a macro bound to my center wheel mouse click that casts SB, SD,ST. I stealth, cast SD and then hit my macro and then hit macro second time when SD up again.

And left mouse wheel click bound to ST so can cast independently as well if and when

I def need to prioritize ST a bit more as finisher so paying attention to that should help too

[stable viper]

!craft

[vast dust]

Sorry, stealth then hit SStrike* then macro

[vale pine]

you essentially craft a dagger at max and then a low stat budget slot like bracers, belt or boots

[slim stag]

I hate to ask this on here does anybody know where I can find a coach to help me understand how to read logs better and approve I'm not performance in raid and m+

[wintry heart]

1up

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[jaunty heath]

damn this raid fall apart in couple pulls

[void ocean]

Yo guys, do we not care anymore about wasting UB stacks? Asking cause I see these SD+SecTech macroes

[iron whale]

I know this is xxx dark edgy BUT I was thinking: wouldn't it be cool asf to have a gameplay similar to Shadow Assassin Kayn for sub rogue?
moving through shadows and strike with a scythe... rather than quick fighting stabs wit hdaggers, big precise strikes with a 2h scythe

idk, just a thought, nothing elaborated

[spice crag]

just make outlaw gangplank again

[wraith sphinx]

No I like my daggers

If they wanted to give us a cool mobile scythe spec it should have been devourer dh

[compact violet]

umbrica

[void ocean]

Bro have u actually held a scythe, theres nothing shadowy or subtle about it, not even sure how Id kill anyone with it

It'd have to be fully incapacitated

[stuck arrow]

They did that already in like BfA?

[iron whale]

😭

[stuck arrow]

Sub used to be the exact same just FW was stronger and we did phys damage.

Then we went Kayn. 😂

[bleak night]

blue scythe is already taken by devourer

[north schooner]

just make sub zed, who cares about kayn

[void ocean]

And fdk

[bleak night]

wrong blue

but true

[graceful osprey]

Sub is now shadow clone spam

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-gaara-remake-fight-punches-gif-26863924

[void ocean]

Fckin weebs 😂

[quick marlin]

yo

[compact violet]

ho did i write it there

[quick marlin]

[compact violet]

wanted to do it in the ctrl f

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1486352553166901328/drops.png

[tepid trellis]

why am i playing deathstalker in keys

i need to be put down i think

[compact violet]

bcs ur hyped by the new button

and cant wait .5

:))

[vale pine]

go on, i am listening

[void ocean]

Record scratch, freeze frame Yep, that's me. You’re probably wondering how I got here

[short radish]

Is it really new when its been taken out of the trash, refried and packaged in new wrapping?