subtlety

[frosty sinew]

i wasn'tparsing anyways is my copium

[tribal blade]

lol gets better every time

[hushed roost]

so you legit just sit there for a second after guidon?

[frosty sinew]

well

[tribal blade]

it's not copium

not having 4pc is a huge dps loss

[frosty sinew]

you use guidon right after a gcd before you use cds

[cloud rover]

THis is painful

[frosty sinew]

you not wasting globals waiting for guidon to have 1s

[frosty sinew]

dont even have 2 set

and i did fuckin splits

shit game fr

[tribal blade]

me neither ❤️

[short radish]

it's acutally peak art right there

[tribal blade]

0 leather tier from heroic

[tribal blade]

can't wait to link it next expac

[frosty sinew]

i have 1 tier

[short radish]

[frosty sinew]

atleast it's heroic

was paladins

[short radish]

im a 1p LFR gamer

[frosty sinew]

my guild went 24 people into lfr split

[tribal blade]

ME TOO

[frosty sinew]

and the leather tier that dropped got yoinked by the 1 random

[tribal blade]

actually

[frosty sinew]

kinda big

[tribal blade]

1 lfr tier with 2 cata charges

had heroic actually dropped literally any tier

[frosty sinew]

as long as we get tier in vault

[tribal blade]

i woulda had 4pc

[frosty sinew]

we are chilling boys

[tribal blade]

since my RL was fast tracking anyone who did pvp

[frosty sinew]

well i have to get 2k m+ cause i couldnt be fucked pvping

but that'll be done day 1 prob anyways

[tribal blade]

that'll be easy to do

[frosty sinew]

what evne is that

like 10s in all?

[tribal blade]

i think less than that

[frosty sinew]

so free

ok

[wild vine]

8s

Iirc

[cloud rover]

7++ or 8+

[tribal blade]

i'm not 100% sure because that's plebian key territory LOL

[wild vine]

I just vaguely remember last time

[frosty sinew]

i dont think i've ever got the achievement by having the same level of all dungeons

[cloud rover]

Prophet Showoff !

[tribal blade]

heehee

[frosty sinew]

usually just like some 12s 13s and then 1 dungeon at like 3 while leveling key

[tribal blade]

3k is like all 12s

and a few 13s

[wild vine]

Depends on the time of the season most likely

[limpid sage]

How long did it take to get 1600

And which gamemode?

[wild vine]

New expansion rarely gets you to 2k with 12s somewhere

[vale osprey]

That's not how score works?

[short radish]

mostly 7s with 1x8 should get you 2k

[wild vine]

It certainly is how keyscaling works

[short radish]

mostly 13s with 1-2x 12s should get you 3k

[wild vine]

You dont just go up there and do 12s

Of random keys

On just a new season you just push up, that doesnt work on a s1

Aside from there being no benefit to it

Rather even hindering your progress

[cloud rover]

You want to do 2K as fast as possible, spent crests and do 10s after that

*Champion crests

[wild vine]

Exactly

Just rush every key on like 7-8 asap before farming 9s and 10s

[cloud rover]

Hero Crests can be saved, because 10s give you 3/6

[tribal blade]

can't say for sure how many hours, like ~2 days of play

(not playing all day)

[hushed roost]

i went 6-2 in blitz and got 1600 lol

[cloud rover]

If you want to optimize with your Group everyone logs on a Alt you play to 5/6/7/8 and everyone else logs to their main except 1 alt, so the Mains have a higher key to start with

[hushed roost]

legit 1 day

[tribal blade]

damn yeah solo shuffle is def slower

[hushed roost]

queued longer than the bg gameplay lmao

[tribal blade]

unless you go like 5-1, 6-2 every game

but that's not possible unless you can hard carry everyone every game

[hushed roost]

yeah

[tribal blade]

everyone will choose 1 person to bully every lobby

and there's very little you can do when that person is on your team

or if YOU'RE the one getting bullied

[short radish]

this was the funniest part about doing solo shuffle

[tribal blade]

bro it's so toxic lol

i swear to god

that's the most toxic thing in the entire game by far

[short radish]

fuck that one guy in particular

[tribal blade]

yeah it's crazy

my guildie told me best thing you can do is play pretty defensive in the first game

so you avoid being picked out

[hushed roost]

lowkey running it down works

if just aiming for 1600

[tribal blade]

as in losing on purpose?

[hushed roost]

no as in just all inning on sap cs opener

[tribal blade]

oh right

yeah that works for sure

[hushed roost]

people kind of panic trinket

then you just win after with smoke

[tribal blade]

ngl all those games just reminded me how much i hate arena

[hushed roost]

same

LOL

at least 3s

[tribal blade]

back when i used to pvp i only did world pvp and rbgs

[hushed roost]

2s is fun still

[tribal blade]

never arenas

2s is a bit more fun yeah

i hate 3s too

i don't have the mental bandwidth to be tracking that much in 3s

[quaint breach]

Cant see why my finishers hit for so much less, feels like I'm missing something

my log:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rK1GAXvbxQR6zMdh?fight=11&type=summary&source=309

random similar fight log:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KCAdxzg9T3Bwta4R?fight=7&type=summary

[azure ember]

is there a string for race sims?

[hushed roost]

did you not puzzle on opener?

[warm marlin]

you should be puzzle boxing with your cds

[hollow spear]

Those backstabs were certainly big

[restive stream]

Can anybody help me to understand why i deal so low damage even if i make good rotation

[quaint breach]

saw that i was suppose to after. thought haste was wasted due to hero b4

[wild vine]

Post a log and someone might have a look

[tall girder]

fimb my goat for puzzleboxxing late

[vale pine]

midnight.vessel_of_tortured_souls_miss_chance=xx
xx = between 0 an 1, so 0.6% is 60% (the default)
source: apl wiki

[wild vine]

Box is mastery and no

[quaint breach]

wat, im blind

[wild vine]

Bl doesnt change anything even with haste

[hushed roost]

he also has natty 300 more mastery than you

[hollow spear]

Day 200 of people asking why their finishers do less damage while not having 2p

[tall girder]

why do my finishers do no damage without 2p

[restive stream]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wPfZKp8RJbLrDMz7?fight=10&type=damage-done

[honest void]

well if it's comparison to someone without then it's a fair ask

[hollow spear]

Read 2p

[quaint breach]

sure yes, but the log is still crap

[honest void]

lowkey he was memeing

[hollow spear]

Yeah coffee hasn't kicked in yet

[quaint breach]

wasnt doing double ss but not sure how much dps gain that is

[hushed roost]

i mean not having 2p and puzzle box alone explains it

[tall girder]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hushed roost]

i wouldnt look at anything else

[hollow spear]

These micro optimisations are not the difference between your logs being good or not

That's like polishing a turd

[wild vine]

1.x

[tall girder]

whats the % gain for doing apex now

[wild vine]

Iirc

[warm marlin]

certainly not

[hushed roost]

certainly does

he didnt use puzzle on cds

so he has no trinket

lol

[wild vine]

For reference, did you ever try polishing a turd?

[restive stream]

Here is it we killed it and even time left but i feel like im trash

[warm marlin]

truncating to same kill time he has less finisher damage than my 245 split alt with no tier and a 259 mh

it looks like you're missing dance casts, at one point you go 40s without casting sectec

[hollow spear]

No, mine are inherently shiny

[wild vine]

Dont hate on 259 mainhands fam

[quaint breach]

speaking of puzzle box, pop pre pull to reduce downtime or after ss?

[wild vine]

Respectable tbf. I only had a shiny turd once

[warm marlin]

dropping gcds in dance since macro not going off

[wild vine]

Or maybe twice

[hollow spear]

Yeah, the gear is almost never the full picture

[warm marlin]

just in general some strange things going on with cd usage

[honest void]

after ur first ss before u send

[hollow spear]

But even if you were playing it right, not having 2p and absolutely fumbling box is going to have a noticeable effect

[warm marlin]

just for the purpose of comparing to his log with a 272 mh

[hollow spear]

Just a general pointer: for log reviews type !log in this channel and it opens a separate thread

So we don't pollute this channel

[honest void]

!hog

[hollow spear]

You need to go to assassination for that

[wild vine]

https://tenor.com/view/pig-prase-lihoop-vepř-vepr-gif-2946898975925706618

[slate nest]

just for clarification, during dance you strike until you get atlas skill/technique and then spender 1x then strike again to refresh technique right?

Or you do strike till technique, double spender then strike till technique again?

[hollow spear]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hollow spear]

Follow this

[verbal kelp]

can you convert 266 BoE into tier with catalyst? And will that become upgradable?

[cloud rover]

If the BoE is Head/Shoulder/Chest/Glove/Legs yes to both

[quaint breach]

so only double ss if those 4 criterias are met?

[fiery fog]

Ye

[plucky parrot]

does the apex talent carry over from dance to dance? I sometimes find during sb that I proc apex as my last global in dance 1, I then start my 2nd dance with a finisher since I still have the visual for the apex talent up but I don't end up getting the free CP reset, so I'm not sure if the apex is actually proccing on that finisher

[slate nest]

difference, ancient arts doesn't give you a reset, that's shadow technique

[fiery fog]

The next shadowstrike will get you the apex anyway

[quaint breach]

any good macro/addon to see if double ss should be used?

[fiery fog]

Idk if there is one

[warm marlin]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[plucky parrot]

thanks king

[hollow spear]

There is none, you just track the buffs

[quaint breach]

maybe ill write my own if possible x)

[slate nest]

Can I use bcm to have a big text saying "strike till aa" or something like that

[hollow spear]

It ain't that hard

[warm marlin]

almost certainly way too conditional for an addon to do

[fiery fog]

Its honestly just „5 sht stacks = strike until apex“

In dance siperchargers

[hollow spear]

We went from whining about pruning to asking for addons because we can't look at two buffs

[warm marlin]

the timer bar thing appears to be in a working state btw

i might drop a fire video this weekend purely because of how degenerate it is

[hollow spear]

The accursed?

[warm marlin]

ye

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

Hey Grok, how can we get Ryldd shadowbanned on YouTube?

[slate nest]

what timer we talkin about?

[hollow spear]

Kinda hilarious. People still trying to figure out apex maxxing won't know what hit them when you turn up with that madness.

[short radish]

you don't want to know.

ignorance is bliss

please trust me on this

[fiery fog]

Now im curious too

[hollow spear]

This will make you quit sub

[slate nest]

I customized an addon to have hardbass playing and tf2 engi dancing the russian dance for when I get bl, I want degen shit

[short radish]

please continue to think sub is an easy 2 button spec

[slate nest]

I loved sub before it became a "2 button spec"

[hollow spear]

Ryldd, you need to restrict access by making people answer some tough questions about the spec

[fiery fog]

Gatekeeping smh

[hollow spear]

Necessary

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[chrome palm]

tldr grok went haywire when reworking deepening shadows

[slate nest]

That's fun

[short radish]

for more context

[fiery fog]

https://tenor.com/view/nobody-got-time-for-that-a-intnobody-got-time-for-that-no-time-for-that-nope-no-gif-10243842

[short radish]

this is why you cannot macro

[short radish]

this is why ignorance is bliss

[olive canyon]

Are youthen trying to pop trinkets atthe start of that 1s window

[chrome palm]

ryldd everytime i relog one of my arcui containers moves up 20 pixels

im beginning to lose it

[olive canyon]

effectively snapshotting it then then letting it upd ate

[warm marlin]

[chrome palm]

its the one on the right

it keeps going back up

[warm marlin]

you pop guidon right as it is about to refresh, then dance immediately after it refreshes

[short radish]

i might waste 4 hours of my life tonight trying out ellesmere UI and breaking everything before raid tomorrow

[olive canyon]

Ah, thats actually a legit cook

[short radish]

arcui has been bugging me with these small things

[chrome palm]

ellesmere not worth it

[fiery fog]

All that for a 500 dps gain

[chrome palm]

trust me

[fiery fog]

[olive canyon]

I have nothing else to give you but my admiration, well played

[short radish]

i will, but any reason why?

[chrome palm]

nothing works

[short radish]

[chrome palm]

it works until you want to do the thing you want

[short radish]

the running theme of this expansion

[chrome palm]

then it doesnt work and you rethink your life

[hollow spear]

What if I rethink my life anyway?

[warm marlin]

yeah when it works

[slate nest]

I miss symbols

[warm marlin]

it is not cooperative

[short radish]

bro every 2nd pvp match, my UI just completely shits the bed and i cant see anything.

I have to play pvp and do my rotation based on vibes

[chrome palm]

mfw an alpha particle entered the blizzard server before i hit guidon and changed my haste snapshot offset

[warm marlin]

bro i swear it was working perfectly in murder row for that full hour of testing

[fiery fog]

Log ruined

[warm marlin]

i called a friend to get a raid group with the finished product so i could test it in the first part of voidspire

instantly refuses to work

[chrome palm]

relog into rezone twilight zone eternal torment style

[distant sage]

same when it was complicated i had cope for my trash parses now I realize im trash

[hollow spear]

Does the timer thing actually require you to time your button presses to the .1 second?

[short radish]

just give us 2 chages on sectech

[hollow spear]

I can barely manage one second

[warm marlin]

the closer to the refresh the easier it is to do the guidon snapshot for second dance yes

[hollow spear]

🅱️razy

[slate nest]

so wait, you press guidon at the exact time it comes up then wait 1s and cast dance?

[short radish]

you press guidon just before the timer ticks over, then you press dance after the timer ticks over

is that right @warm marlin

[warm marlin]

yes

[short radish]

[slate nest]

Oh yeah but you need the timer for that

[short radish]

fuck i hate this

[hollow spear]

Mah gahd

[warm marlin]

it's too cringe for the masses!

[slate nest]

I mean I do not even own guidon yet so

[short radish]

honestly it's still better than using puzzle box

[hollow spear]

And then it's still probably a 50/50

[warm marlin]

nah when the timer works it's actually pretty consistent

[slate nest]

wait it's not loading

[short radish]

when

[warm marlin]

the hardest part is getting that to work

[shadow lance]

Nice cdm

[warm marlin]

thanks i need to rearrange things to fit this dumbass timer bar in there

[hollow spear]

That bar is going to cause seizures

[short radish]

this is the energy bar from classic all over again

[chrome palm]

getting ("SOON") flashbacks from SL...

[slate nest]

my fuckass connection doesn't let me view the vid

[hollow spear]

I hope it's not your connection at home

Or you won't be able to do this in wow anyway

[slate nest]

No, at work on mobile data xd

[unreal silo]

does this happen with bl too or only flat haste

[warm marlin]

deepening only works on flat haste

[unreal silo]

kk

[warm marlin]

supposedly blizzard can just make dance check your haste when you cast it which would alleviate all of this and you would just macro

unclear why they went for this method instead

[slate nest]

Bro, understanding Blizzard and their spaghetti is impossible

[honest void]

it's about sending a message

[warm marlin]

anything for that 0.7% gain though am i right

[hollow spear]

Ahk with a .5 delay will surely do the trick

[slate nest]

Can't wait to use the timer when u release it Ryldd xd

[hollow spear]

He might not

Maybe it breaks him

[warm marlin]

nah i live for that stuff

[slate nest]

I believe in Ryldd! He can do it!

[warm marlin]

i just need my lackeys like @chrome palm and @short radish to make sure it actually works for other people first

[hollow spear]

Making them suffer

[slate nest]

Can I be a lackey? More testers more data for results

[warm marlin]

i know @plush roost will run it too (if he isnt just playing sin)

[slate nest]

Tbh the only fights you need to learn is dragons and cosmos, until moq comes out

[warm marlin]

prepare a man for a raid fight and he does damage for a night. teach a man to fully optimize his spec, he does damage forever. amen

[chrome palm]

ive done more for autumn, this isnt very different

[hollow spear]

Why care about a 0.7% gain if assa will get buffed by 8% in two weeks?

[chrome palm]

ok the assa boosters

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/bestie-besties-so-true-so-true-bestie-kirby-gif-25485425

[chrome palm]

low key delusional

unless its good

then they knew all along

[slate nest]

I wanna optimize till I do orange in logs

[hollow spear]

This optimization is not the thing holding you back from orange logs btw

You could do zero minmax and parse pink

[slate nest]

I know dw

[warm marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[slate nest]

0.7% increase is not the holy grail

[hollow spear]

And if you minmax but have bad timings you're purple

[slate nest]

Imagine Ryldd finishes it, it works finally, that night blizz patches it and now you can macro and ignore the timer

[hollow spear]

Would be on brand

[chrome palm]

imagine if they didnt gimp us around a haste tax

[short radish]

just gotta convince RL to give it to me when it drops tomorrow

[chrome palm]

for something you could easily and relatively intuitively do before

[hollow spear]

This can be the argument. Additional gains beyond your sim.

[short radish]

i wonder does any other spec in wow have this kinda degen shit

are we the only one?

[hollow spear]

Two sectec charges when?

[wild vine]

Wait what did I miss

[hollow spear]

Nothing

[wild vine]

Just make it have no CD and be usable once during dance

That would already be fine

[warm marlin]

it's for the good of the people

[stoic spire]

I seem to be lost on the apex talents and don't know if I understand it correctly... so with apex 1 I get the 5% chance for my shadowstrike to generate clone that will SS for 50% dmg as shadow, that is then bumped to 50% chance with apex 2 and 100% apex 3. In effect I got free SS that does 50% dmg(not exactly cause it is shadow and it is bumped by other talents and apex itself). Then apex 4- if I SS with max combo points I got a nice outline on UI that informs me the ancient arts are up and my next evi will expend secret technique stacks.... My question is- is that evi I cast generates the clone that will evi as well? Is that wat the apex is all about- additional evi strikes by clone as shadow?

[upper narwhal]

Having got Guidon yesterday, fuck this shit fucking delay. Pressing on pull and hoping for the best

[short radish]

i don't need it for me. I need it for the entire sub rogue community

[short radish]

in blizzards attempt to make sub rogue cds line up better, they have made sub rogue cds line up even worse

10/10 blizzard would redesign a spec again

not only does it line up worse, we don't even have the flexibility from before

[wild vine]

But they wanted to make it more flexible! 1!1!1!1!

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

literally all they needed to do was that. make sectech only castable in sdance

[hollow spear]

Our profile would have been good now

Even on council

Where we're bottom of the barrel now

[wild vine]

Ye. They even have the tech if we just look at windwalker

[slate nest]

idk, frost mages do ice lance optimization without addons so that they don't waste a global, it's just conditions with buffs and shatter stacks

[wild vine]

Literally the same as conduit/xuen

Rn

[native zodiac]

waiting room until they make sectech have no cd and beeing castable once per dance

[short radish]

the only thing i know about frost mages is they need to stack shatter when we go into intermission

[slate nest]

no, give 2 charges

[short radish]

and they also do a billion damage

[short radish]

tbh either/or would work

[upbeat sorrel]

Shatter stacks so fast barely need to stack it

[slate nest]

And they could do a billion and one if they optimize lances xd

[short radish]

then we have our flexibility back again

[native zodiac]

same outcome besides charges will give us more problems down the line

[upbeat sorrel]

Just naturally stacks hella fast during rotation

[short radish]

i just don't want to be fucked over by sitting on sectech for 5 seconds 2x in a row

is that too much to ask for?

(yes apparently it is)

[slate nest]

But as I'm thinking about it, having sectech be only castable during dance is actually a good idea

And it having 0cd

[warm marlin]

it's definitely remove the natty charge and just make it castable once a dance

[hollow spear]

I don't appreciate your lack of appreciation for our newly gained flexibility™

[unreal silo]

3% take it or leave it 🫃

[short radish]

only castable in dance achieves their goal of simplification

[warm marlin]

yeah that was the really confusing part about it

[short radish]

while allowing for the skill expression of "waiting 3 seconds to align with a damage moment"

[hollow spear]

It would be so easy

[short radish]

like what the fuck is this skill expression of "hahaha you thought sdance was the cooldown you need to manage? no it's acutally sectech"

[warm marlin]

why have all this haste bs and complication that just feels worse compared to the easy simple answer

[slate nest]

Let me stack mastery and forget about anything else blizz plssss

I don't mind 2 sec precast before boss for extra mastery

[wild vine]

Idk 2 stacks would implicate some cringe holding

Tbh

If both stacks share the CD like dance

[slate nest]

The best is the "can cast once in dance with 0cd"

After thinking about it 2 charges doesn't fix the issue of not alligned cds

[wild vine]

Yes

Whether ’tis nobler in the soul to dance, or to forbear—this be the only question thou must ask thyself.

[slate nest]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[short radish]

i mean it'd work the same way as symbols worked before right?

[wild vine]

Yeah and you will sit on a separate CD for no reason at all

Which kinda feels bad

If the other option is as simple as making it only castable once per dance

It would also solve the issue of new people asking themself whether they might sectec without dance

And further amplifies dance value identity wise by making it a solid connection

[short radish]

yeah

tbh i'm fine either way

i'd prefer the castable only in dance th ing though

[native zodiac]

its hard to comprehend how they didnt get to that conclusion themselves and decided this haste bs

[short radish]

otherwise theres some weird degen shit like double sectech as first 2 finishers

[wild vine]

All those clones

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-gaara-remake-fight-punches-gif-26863924

[hollow spear]

Maybe because haste has been bad for a long time and they felt like they had to do something big about it

Which I don't agree with, but could be an explanation

[native zodiac]

sectech castable only in dance once and make haste scaling the more haste you have the higher chance you have to spawn a clone that mirrors your last finisher

[wild vine]

It would have the same value if dance were stronger again and it only adds dance duration

Tbf

[slate nest]

I want to now make custom sound effects for every time I summon clones (sectech or apex)

Naruto screaming shadow clone jutsu

[warm marlin]

yep

[wild vine]

Im currently too busy listening to the sound effect of my vessel popping an orb

[warm marlin]

or literally just have deepening read "your damage during dance is increased by an additional 150% of your haste"

[slate nest]

thank fuck I don't have vessel ngl

[warm marlin]

like it wouldn't even have to be interesting

[wild vine]

You dont only need vessel, you even need to download an addon

Because vessel in itself has no cue if an orb popped

[slate nest]

i know

I hate trinkets like that

Makes me lose uptime chasing a fuckahh orb

[native zodiac]

that would work too

clones are batchest though

[warm marlin]

like this talent exists

[warm marlin]

ye ur idea is cooler

[wild vine]

It was insanely annoying to look for the orbs on dragons hc for example

[calm chasm]

Is there no place for rogues to upload logs and get help with their rotation?

[slate nest]

!log

[high grotto]

i cant wait to get 4 piece this week and do damage

[slate nest]

It creates a thread and you can upload there

Can't wait to get set pieces

0/4 currently

Still balling

[high grotto]

same

[slate nest]

But without the ing

[high grotto]

dw i got told to not look at logs coz its useless, but i still die inside

[cloud rover]

@alpine wraith

[slate nest]

I got told the opposite "fuck guides, look at logs, that's the only guide you need"

[fiery fog]

Why not both

[calm chasm]

Oh, I also don’t have my set bonus yet, maybe that’s why my logs are weak.

[high grotto]

nah as in before i get tier set as all high parsers will have 4 set and most likely guildons

[slate nest]

Most likely ye

[karmic harbor]

Some people even used hc crests to upgrade dagger

[high grotto]

may everyone get the eye in vault

[slate nest]

Gimme guidon in vault

Even if I only did normal I want it in champion

I will replace box

[slate nest]

can't wait to post my recraft after week 1 m+ for myth upgrade and be done

[alpine wraith]

dr is a cuck anyway

cant believe blizz wont let me get 400% mastery smh

[slate nest]

true and real

[alpine wraith]

tbh if you got a hero dagger you can send crests

because even if you drop a M one only 1/6 are available

[high grotto]

my surv hunter got it

[alpine wraith]

and 6/6 hero is already 2/6 M so you also get a free upgrade kinda

[slate nest]

They mean craft dagger upgraded to hero I think

[alpine wraith]

ah yea that one is rip

[high grotto]

week 1 myth crests are into my weapon

[slate nest]

80 crests for something you will recraft next week lmao

Maybe even day 1

[tribal vortex]

why waste crests? you will craft one and leave the other at 1/6 for the rest of the season

[alpine wraith]

it is for power and you would use crests anyway on plces you can upgrade

[slate nest]

First m+ vault is gonna be myth dagger trust

[tribal vortex]

I mean when m opens you will have all hero gear and it is way better to upgrade like trinkets or chest/legs/head/shoulders

the dagger crests will not give you that much of an increase

[alpine wraith]

nah upgrading a M weapon is better than any of those

so getting the free M upgrade is worth

[tribal vortex]

you will have a crafted one

[slate nest]

One yes

[tribal vortex]

yeah but the other is 0 dmg

[alpine wraith]

if you get a M weapon you put crafted in off hand

[tribal vortex]

You wouldn't even take a mythic weapon from vault

[alpine wraith]

what

[tribal vortex]

if you have a mythic chest let's say

[karmic harbor]

OH is piss dmg

[slate nest]

wat

Double m weapon > any other m gear

Bcs main stat is highest on weapons

[alpine wraith]

more like MH ilvl is that strong

not like off hand matters much

but it is neat to have too in the end

[tribal vortex]

yeah but the difference from 285 to 289 for mh is kinda small

so if i have chest and dagger in vault (after you crafted myth dagger) you should probably pick chest

[wild vine]

Hu

[tribal vortex]

You can sim too but I don't believe 4 ilvl in mh is like 20 lvl in chest

[alpine wraith]

actually diff between 285 and 289 might be bigger than you expect vs upgrading any piece of gear

[tribal vortex]

Interesting I will sim it out of curiosity

[alpine wraith]

and it is not only that but you also have a good offhand

[tribal vortex]

but I would expect a 3/6 hero chest upgraded to 6/6 myth to be better

[stable viper]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[full escarp]

I feel like Sub Rogue is total trash in raids right now. The damage is really low compared to the top 10 Heroic specs, it’s so frustrating. Does the 2-set/4-set change anything, or is it still a disaster ?

[warm marlin]

we have the best 4p in the game at 13-14% increase

[tribal blade]

4pc adds a huge dmg bump

[warm marlin]

but it's not gonna make you better than the main character specs

[grand galleon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[meager creek]

ye especially lightblinded vanguards..

so akward to play

[tribal blade]

next week i get a ~17% dps increase from 4pc and tuning buff gdamn

as do most sub rogues atm

[meager creek]

do pres knives > blackpowder on 2 target?

[tribal blade]

strike>BP in dance

storm>BP out of dance

[full escarp]

It's my first time playing a class with such non-existent cleave. I don't know if that’s 'normal,' but it’s really limiting.

[meager creek]

3 target its storm?

or still strike

[tribal blade]

this is a problem sub has been having for a long time

got fixed during TWW because of nimble

but they changed nimble

so we're back to sucking in cleave again

[tribal blade]

strike on 3 target

[meager creek]

ohh.. thats probably what i do wrong.

[tribal blade]

i think the diff is not that significant on 3 target between strike and storm

but pressing strike gives you more prio

[meager creek]

still feels akward to storm and blackpowder on 2 targets 😛

outside dance

[tribal blade]

it's not so bad because you gen x2 the CPs over backstab

but sub really blows at 2 target now

really bad

[dense bison]

@vale pine did Vessel of Tortured Souls recently loose alot of its value in sims? went down about 800~ to other at 250 baseline

[vale pine]

the baseline was set to 0.6 onstead of 0.8 i assume

so ye

could make the diffrence

[dense bison]

ah ok,. thanks for the info

[slate nest]

this is true if you get the dagger from Vorasius on mythic, but if you don't mythic raid at the start then dagger is better bcs more agility from dagger than chest (assuming both are 3/6 hero currently)

[tribal vortex]

but you have to calculate the difference between the dmg difference because you already have a 285 dagger

I will sim it and let you know

[tribal blade]

chest has like almost double the main stat than dagger

am i missing something

[fiery fog]

Dagger is mainly about the attack stat

[tribal vortex]

yeah this is my feeling too

[tepid trellis]

when i did some stuff for it earlier

[tribal blade]

it's more so everything we do scales off main hand weapon damage

[tepid trellis]

our conclusion was to craft dagger to make splits easier

[tribal vortex]

The convo was if you see myth dagger 1/6 elt's say on first vault alongside a chest 1/6. do you take myth chest or dagger (given that you have a 3/6 chest and 3/6 dagger in oh

[tepid trellis]

also a side note its more like 0.7% worse since you would not be upgrading the 2nd dagger

[warm marlin]

double mythic dagger is relatively unlikely as well

[tepid trellis]

it is

[wild vine]

Last time I had a similar situation the chest was better (in that case legs for me but same Budget)

[tepid trellis]

but it did happen to me

2 tiers in a row

[dense bison]

3rd times the charm, right? 🙂

[tribal vortex]

yeah that's what I said, but I will run a sim out of curiosity

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ornate lake]

chat how much shadow tech stacks do we keep before going into dance?

[tepid trellis]

just stop spending 3 sec or so before dancing

so w/e that gives you

[ornate lake]

3 stacks i think?

[tribal vortex]

I think 2 are enough to have apexed 2nd finisher

[vale pine]

classic

[snow parcel]

!log

[strange geode]

Why Shuriken Storm with SD as Deathstalker?

[slate nest]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[slate nest]

I thought it explained lmao

Not even on wowhead

I do not know the answer sorry

I play trick

[strange geode]

I do not find the reason either

[slate nest]

Only

I think it's bcs you play improved storm on ds?

And something with deepening shadows aswell

idk

@vale pine ?

[astral axle]

bro i cant sleep im too excited for m+ starting

[tribal blade]

we're trying to maximize what we do in dance to avoid losing a gcd, and using a dance+strike macro incurs a ~0.2sec delay before strike fires

[karmic harbor]

anyone else just playing trickster on every fight

[tribal blade]

using dance+storm macro doesn't incur a delay and is instant

it's a bug with the macro

[snow parcel]

My understanding is that storm does more damage than backstab because of the guaranteed crit and there's a delay on using Shadow strike macro'd with dance

[alpine wraith]

yea the delay is dance+strike

but storm because of DS and silent storm does more than stab

[strange geode]

But doesn't Backstab do more damage than Storm?

[vale pine]

Its because of bar lag

[alpine wraith]

nope

[strange geode]

In single target I mean

[alpine wraith]

yea that changes nothing

[vale pine]

it takes a very short time to update the stance

[alpine wraith]

it is mainly because of silent storm and other talents

[vale pine]

so if you dance + strike

[alpine wraith]

baseline it does do less

[vale pine]

the strike will have a at minimum ~100 ms delay

[strange geode]

Thank you guys!

[vale pine]

if you macro storm + dance, you remove the delay

same with dance + secret

this is only relevant because of deepening shadows

the talent, which extends the duration of shadow dance

it does so in small intervalls

so you get like 0.2 extra sec of dance

now you need to use your spell very precise to fit into this 0.2 sec

and many times won't be able to

with the macro(s), you give yourselfe just enough additional time

[distant sage]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[drifting elbow]

Hu, I'm not englush fluent, so does that mean as Sub we always use mzcro Shadowdance+shuriken storm instead of SecTec then use sectec on the next spender gcd?

[lilac stag]

Only for deathstalker.

[drifting elbow]

So to have a one GCD delay in sectec is better overall okay. Thank you

[snow berry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[distant sage]

is double on use worth this season with guidon and puzzle box

[tribal blade]

doubt it, but could happen

sub does not have the same power in cds anymore

[arctic heart]

that neck from last boss is really something? one warrior try to buy mine normal version for 80k, i didnt sell it, was stupid?

[tribal blade]

so that already makes double on use less desirable

[shadow snow]

how can i macro the AA box trinket? It is really annoying that it breaks my stealth

[fiery fog]

With guidon there is also no need for double on use

Since youll have it every blades

[distant sage]

ye true

[tribal blade]

you're also getting way less out of guidon if you're using it every other cd set

and then on top of that if you ever don't send blades insta

and sit on it

that makes it all even worse

[alpine wraith]

i thought about double haste on use and have like 2 dances then 2 dances etc

but it didnt seem that good because the plume is not super strong

[vale pine]

you start dance on:

• High cp on trickste
• low cp on deathstalker.
  So:
  Trickster uses a macro with dance + secret
  Deathstalker a macro with dance + storm

[tribal blade]

mmmm interesting

[alpine wraith]

but maybe you can get enough haste to be able to get 2 sec techs in those next 2 dances and then it is back almost same time after but meh

[tribal blade]

i think though playing 1 on use and passive means less think and do big dam anyways 😉

[alpine wraith]

yea

[tribal blade]

i'm sure there'll be another prism style trinket this expac though

[fiery fog]

As long as there isnt another puzzle bocks

Already died once casting it while salhadaar beams started going off

[torpid snow]

Is it worth using 2x Secret Technique during Shadow Blades without Supercharge, or should I wait 4–5 seconds for Shadow Dance? This sometimes happens during Bloodlust in raids

[tepid trellis]

you delay the 2nd dance during blades to super charge sectech

[torpid snow]

okey

[fiery fog]

Unless you have 4p where you delay the second dance to have sectec as a second finisher in the second dance right?

[tepid trellis]

well its kinda the same thing

you just have more SB coverage

[fiery fog]

Wait
Dont tell me i did that wrong the whole time

I just sent raw dances in blades

[tepid trellis]

damn -0.4%

you will never recover from that im afraid

[fiery fog]

Well id still like to play it optimally

[drifting ether]

Managed to get some oranges thanks to the discord

[fiery fog]

Also i think thats why i sometimes dont have a second dance on blades

[vale osprey]

Can I clarify, is this only with the 4p? Without 4p (I have guidon) I'm basically only able to get a second supercharged sectec in as the very last global in blades

[slate nest]

!log

[hearty verge]

hi, in how many targets is it better to shadowstrike vs shuriken storm within shadow dance?

[grizzled hornet]

3 on trickster 4 on ds

[slate nest]

So 4+ on trickster is storm even in dance?

[tepid trellis]

#subtlety-faq message

[grizzled hornet]

yes, you can check the faq that stealthi posted

[hearty verge]

o tysm sorry for not checking there first

[slate nest]

Yeah tyty

Gonna see friday on raid how much better or worse I'm doing lmao

[frigid ingot]

what is your ilvl/tier set?

[unkempt yacht]

with 2P ?

[haughty mural]

with 3 vorasius kills already

[slate nest]

On pull I precast puzzlebox then stealth strike for opener, do I press dance+sectech macro then sb or i press sb then macro?

[rain stratus]

You press them all in one macro

[slate nest]

It is a stupid question most likely but I'd love to know if I'm doing it properly?

[rain stratus]

Blades, dance and sectech

[slate nest]

Ah so macro sb+dance+sectech?

tyty

Im guessing I use this sb macro for every sb

[vale osprey]

Just make sure you press Guidon like a second before that

[cosmic dust]

Strong!!

[drifting ether]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/98122600 2piece 256

[frigid ingot]

ah ok

[slate nest]

lemme get guidon first

[cosmic dust]

my logs suck ONLY because no setpiece

[slate nest]

my logs suck ONLY because no setpiece

[frigid ingot]

just curious, on averzian you keep cds or you send them on cd?

[cosmic dust]

I swear!!!

[frigid ingot]

maybe, tierset gives a rly big increase on sub.

[slate nest]

I didn't have any macros but yeah setpiece is making me parse blue

[tribal blade]

it does

[slate nest]

It gives a fuck ton yes

[tribal blade]

it's really hard to parse right now as sub w/o 4pc

[drifting ether]

Sent it at start with lust, around 1.35 when add almost went up and around 3.10 or so when adds were on mini boss

[tribal blade]

or 2pc

[cosmic dust]

Yeah its 7,4% in fuus list, my sim says even more for my gear

[slate nest]

But still, purple parsing is doable without set

[hearty verge]

how big is the 2pc diff

[tribal blade]

for sure i got purple/orange parses w/o tier

[slate nest]

I got blue

[hallow matrix]

are the sims up to date with the

+3% buff?

[slate nest]

Did one 91 on a wipe on cosmos

also it was normal so

Not really my best performance

First raid of this season

to be honest i didn't even want to play rogue this season in pve, but we had 4 frost mages in the team so I switched lmao

[vocal narwhal]

Is there any point to have more then 700 haste?

Like does 800 do anything

[fiery fog]

It does something but not much and youre better off with 700

[vocal narwhal]

ah okey thanks

[fiery fog]

The next big breakpoint is at 3200 haste or something i believe

And thats too much

[slate nest]

It's like 0.1 or even less lmao, so just go mastery/crit after getting 700 haste

[vocal narwhal]

Was debating about these 2, but the one on the left gives me 800 haste

right i mean

sry

[slate nest]

go with the left one, it gives main stat and you dont need the extra haste

[tribal blade]

looks like 3rd extra global is 1076

[slate nest]

I mean

Hold on

[tribal blade]

or 1173 with 0.4 grace period

[slate nest]

Right trinket gives more main stat

[tulip light]

I wouldn’t plan with the 100 haste from paw since long term u want something like guidon / gaze / plume. For now you can just switch flask if the 800 haste is with consumes?

[tribal blade]

it's a proc so it won't be that much main stat all the time

[slate nest]

true, left one is perma main stat

[fiery fog]

Warbanner seems to sim quite well early on

[vocal narwhal]

Oki thanks

[tribal blade]

but the paw will be overall better tbh because any time you have more than 1 target it'll become better

[fiery fog]

For me at least

[tribal blade]

the axe trink is pure ST

and there's no pure ST encounter this tier

[slate nest]

true

[fiery fog]

Who pads on vorasius blobs

[tribal blade]

why not 😉

[slate nest]

Tbh I was about to bring up vorasius xd

That I only move when targeted

[fiery fog]

I havent switched off of salhadaar once either

[tribal blade]

"adds gotta die"

[slate nest]

Otherwise I stick to boss

[slate nest]

I only tab to blind add

[tribal blade]

saladbar the mythic mechanic is you get more and more orbs

so inevitably i feel melee will need to cleave onto them

at some point on the fight

[fiery fog]

More and more orbs for mm hunters to one shot

[red flame]

Mouseover macros >

[tribal blade]

lol maybe

we'll see

depends how much the tanks can drag him around the room

[fiery fog]

2 target cleave sub

https://tenor.com/view/zidane-shocked-gif-13703446

[tribal blade]

wym we're massive on cleave

[fiery fog]

Especially on paladin fight

[tribal blade]

see

winning

[fiery fog]

We went below ele

No way

Time for another aoe nerf because sub is above average in the first m0 week

[tribal blade]

whoops lemee fix that

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-real-true-fact-checked-fact-gif-6343207587503842551

[tribal blade]

there

see

[red flame]

Can’t have rogues being competitive w other classes now

[slate nest]

tippy top

[red flame]

[fiery fog]

Rogues were good during s3 dragonflight

Time for eternal prison

[tribal blade]

yeah we've gone from super strong cleave to absolutely nothing

crazy 180

[slate nest]

Rogues were good for all of vanilla, time to jail

[fiery fog]

Sub is good in pvp? Why would it need buffs

[slate nest]

Even in pvp outlaw seems better now

[fiery fog]

Isnt sub just oneshotting left and right

[slate nest]

or sm I delulu?

[dreamy root]

sub is broken in pvp

lmao

[slate nest]

Ah, we back to oneshotting?

[tribal blade]

they're gonna nerf sub

there's no shot it'll stay this way

[red flame]

Tbf isn’t that the class theme tho lol

[chilly dagger]

Hey guys, quick two questions on my rotation:

• Do I ever hold back Shadow Dance to wait until Sectec is coming up?

• Do I use Sectec when its up (even though I dont have any shadow dances right now or do I let it sit until I got a shadow dance?)

[slate nest]

Pvp nerf incoming, back to stunsluting

[fiery fog]

Sub and class theme lmao

The only theme is shadow clones and those dont work half of the time

[slate nest]

Need dance for sectech, always have one dance for sectech

[red flame]

Shadow clones + being the grim reaper known for 1 shots

But so real

[slate nest]

or being the stunslut for most of df and tww

You legit were just playing to stun for your mage

[hearty verge]

is there a reason for casting dance before blades or does the order for those two not matter?

[red flame]

Blades always first

[slate nest]

you macro blades to dance and sectech so you cast them together but blades is first

so just
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[tepid trellis]

good thing they nerfed our AoE by 18%

we wouldve been too op on that fight

ong

[fiery fog]

Top 1 spec by a mile for sure

[red flame]

Maby not numerically but in our hearts we will always be #1

[fiery fog]

i think devourer needs another buff

[tepid trellis]

still funny that mm does almost twice sub's dmg

on that fight

[slate nest]

true and real, feels too weak compared to sub

[plucky parrot]

when they're realistically only hitting two targets

[frigid ingot]

is it worth, to use a shadowstrike from Shadowdance to prpx Apex then use Sec Tech?

[subtle jay]

any1 got crests table in quick reach?

!crests

[alpine wraith]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[subtle jay]

oh shit thx

and any suggestion for valeera curios for delving?

[fiery fog]

Porcelan blade tip and mandate of sacred death

[jaunty pine]

Hey guys, sorry if this does not belong here but i just dropped https://www.wowhead.com/item=251792/glorious-crusaders-keepsake, its seems to be a pretty decent trinket but haven seen any note of it anywhere.

[fiery fog]

If not doing ?? Boss

[narrow shadow]

Hey guys, quick question: Should I aim for 700 haste baseline if I have the guidon and on top of that use the trinket with SB? Or it's 700 haste counting the Guidon's on use?

[tepid trellis]

without the trinket

[narrow shadow]

It's just because it doesn't go to mythic

[tepid trellis]

id aim for around 684

[subtle jay]

gonna grind some delves before reset kicks in so i'll be able to craft myth dagger asap

i hate delves af but that's like the only source of myth track crests that's available for me rn

[alpine wraith]

delves dont give Myth crests

until delve journey 4

[sweet moss]

left Sims well

[alpine wraith]

and it is capped at 20 a week + some from map

[fiery fog]

Valeera with those curios starts to out dps you really fast btw😂

[subtle jay]

they do apparently, i've got 45 crests in total rn and 30 of them are uncapped

[fiery fog]

I did the ?? Boss too and got 0 uncapped crests on my main

[subtle jay]

that's bugged

[fiery fog]

My alt has 180 crests for some reason

[narrow shadow]

Do we get another catalyst charge tomorrow?

[subtle jay]

i think so

[fiery fog]

Yeah we do

[subtle jay]

and

[sweet moss]

i swear puzzle sims not great for me

[subtle jay]

so that's the main reason why im going for lvl 4 delvers journey and then for four of t11 delves

[verbal kelp]

Hello, during blades, do we delay second dance until we get sectech back so we can supercharge it?

[subtle jay]

do you have 4p set?

[alpine wraith]

yea that is delve journey 4

rn you can have 50 crests total

30 from ?? and 20 from gilded chests

next week you would get another 20

then you would miss 10 sadly to craft

tbh it is not a bad idea if you cant really go and rush to m + 7

[vale osprey]

Anyone got the picture of the haste breakpoint spreadsheet? Need to save it

[subtle jay]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[subtle jay]

well i've tried

[vale osprey]

ty ❤️

[alpine wraith]

credits to eleem and whoever did it too although i have it in my sheet anyway

[swift tinsel]

Level 4 is quite easy to get and 11’s are not terribly difficult so getting the extra 20 myth is pretty simple

[twilit gorge]

how much does our aoe improve with 4pc?

[visual lark]

does the 4p achievement unlock dropping charges on all characters?

[fiery fog]

No they fixed that

[visual lark]

wondering if its worth to run raid finder on all alts

okay so its not worth

gladge

[swift tinsel]

Probably easier to just spam delves if they hadn’t

But rip

[alpine wraith]

aoe improves mainly due to 2p

blades is kinda whatever overall for aoe

you can do lfr with all alts

to try and get warbound tierset tho

remember that

[swift tinsel]

Ah true

[visual lark]

oh true that

[swift tinsel]

Forgot you can get around tokens

I did zero alt lfr lol

[vale osprey]

On the dot

[visual lark]

off to 10x lfrs then

[swift tinsel]

This is the first xpac since probs WoD where I didn’t have every class at max level by first reset lol

[alpine wraith]

i have only leveled my rogue this expansion

im slacking

[fiery fog]

Why not level several rogues

[sweet moss]

was tempted to do a outlaw only rogue

but then so much gold on crafts and bs

so i cba

[alpine wraith]

i did level some professions with alts

but they are like lvl 82 and 81

[tepid trellis]

from the 2k score achievement yeh

[alpine wraith]

also from baseline reset thing

[tepid trellis]

isnt that the week after it

[alpine wraith]

think this week we didnt get a cata charge

[thin sinew]

we did

[alpine wraith]

really i though last week we got the quest and got 1

then this one none

then next week one

possible im wrong tho

[tulip light]

next free charge for all is on 31

[open swan]

in shadow dance, is it worth getting ancient arts for each evis after sec tec? or just using shadow techniques to instantly 2nd evis

[plush roost]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[plush roost]

Theres your answer ^

[open swan]

but as trickster i dont have a supercharged combo point

[thin sinew]

?

[plush roost]

Yes you do

[open swan]

after ** dance sec tec

then coup

[plush roost]

Its the middle capstone row on class tree

[open swan]

usually if i have it up

[plush roost]

Well youd dance sec tec, then force apex on coup then

Ur 2nd finisher is apex forced as trickster

Unless ofc ur fucked on sht but u shouldnt ever be if playing correctly

[slate nest]

You essentially dance sectech then force aa then evis/coup

[plush roost]

Otherwise u play normally

[slate nest]

I kinda misunderstood before and forced aa for every spender in dance

[grizzled hornet]

that was a thing before the tuning

[slate nest]

Yeah my muscle memory just kept doing it after it

[open swan]

yeah so during dance, you just evis on shadow technique procs

outsdie dance, aa > evis wher possible yea?

[slate nest]

Can someone give me some pointers for my last logs? it's normal raid, I think I'll do better already next raid but I still think I need help (ignore the sin logs, I was testing which one is better for me) #1485950477936889886

[jade urchin]

@alpine wraith i fucked around with the opener some more cause i saw lfr guidon gives 540 haste putting me at over 1.2k

somehow second dance is barely inside shadowdance outside of lust

im making sure to press guidon before blades ofc

or rather before dance

[slate nest]

no, inside dance you force aa on second spender then play normally (max combo points = spender) at leadt that's how I understood it

[jade urchin]

only play around aa when ure inside supercharged combopoints from pressing dance

assuming trickster ofc

[swift tinsel]

Outside dance would be pretty hard to force apex

[slate nest]

as ds you play around darkest night aswell, when dn up you force aa

[jade urchin]

reminds me of backstabbing for 10 seconds before cd window last tier

[slate nest]

thank fuck I wasn't playing pve last ssn xd

[mortal skiff]

is it important to stand behind target for more dmg?

[swift tinsel]

Now it’s just backstabbing for 3-5 seconds before dance

[jade urchin]

no

[jade urchin]

thats an improvement if u ask me

[swift tinsel]

If this keeps up by next expansion it’ll be gone lol

[open swan]

so if i have shadow technique stacks outside of shadow dance, is it worth spending for them

and getting aa

[swift tinsel]

We’ll never be free of the jank though

[open swan]

to just finish with AA (no supercharged)

[jade urchin]

not actively no

[swift tinsel]

You just play normally outside dance

[slate nest]

How much worse is talenting gloomblade? I just love the spell so i'd love to use it

[swift tinsel]

Forcing apex is only when those specific conditions are met

[slate nest]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[swift tinsel]

At the moment you’re prepared to finish

[open swan]

ok i gotcha

[swift tinsel]

Trying to game the conditions instead of reacting to them naturally will cost dps

[jade urchin]

i mean 95% of time it happens naturally anyways

[swift tinsel]

Excessive Striking, sitting on globals trying to get enough ShT stacks, all bad

Yeah

[slate nest]

play normally, you get natural aa's aswell not just forced ones

[swift tinsel]

If you properly set up your dances then you’re pretty much guaranteed to hit them

Since you get free stacks from Sectech that will put you over the 5+ threshold

[timid wedge]

hello , someone have build and best valeera power for nulleaus ??

[jade urchin]

raid single target build with elusiveness over cheat death

and valeera on heal curios dont matter

[swift tinsel]

And numbing poison over atro

[jade urchin]

oh true

[swift tinsel]

Slower AA speed

[timid wedge]

ok thanks 🙂

[vocal narwhal]

Why does my slice and dice activate it self?

[clear osprey]

Generally Trickster wants to enter dance at full cp and deathstalker with low cp.
why deathstalker prefers dance with low cp?

[jade urchin]

eviscerate/coup activates it

[vocal narwhal]

so no need to have it on a bush button? I have it on 3 rn

[tulip light]

how do you guys approach gearing in general - getting enough haste through gear and go mastery flask or focus on crit / mast on gear and make sure to hit certain haste values with consumes? in the end it should not matter but maybe there is something im missing / is an easier approach

[jade urchin]

no its only somewhat useful for between pulls in m+

otherwise can fully unbind if u want button freed

[vocal narwhal]

oki thanks ❤️

[jade urchin]

both, if youre at 520 ish haste go haste flask, if ure over try to fill the gap to 680

dont want too much haste because itd be wasted

u just dont want to be in awkward spot inbetween

[sullen flare]

Blackpowder doesnt give it afaik so if u re walking to a pull in m+ and u intend to powder u might want to have it in a button to press it to refresh while getting there

[jade urchin]

both hero talents use eviscerate in some way for aoe

coup or darkest night

so thats not a worry

you can press it between pulls but it really wont make a difference 99% of times

[sullen flare]

yea yea the exception is it running out before pressing coup (assuming trickster) but doesnt make a difference in dps xdd

[vocal narwhal]

Is it worth using blizzards button assist?

[tough solar]

i have all of these at 263ilvl. what is best combo for m+?

[sharp peak]

Sim

[tough solar]

dungeon slice sim show me that cringebox and Heart of Wind is simming the highest

[sharp peak]

There you go

[fiery fog]

Yeah because mastery in aoe is good

[tough solar]

I havent seen any rogue using heart of wind

heart of wind part is confusing me

[jade urchin]

its random haste proc that can do absolutely nothing if not lined with ur dances

[sharp peak]

So don’t use it if you don’t want it

[pine viper]

!log

[gleaming crane]

what are we crafting with the sparks ?

[sharp peak]

Sim told you highest in a scenario. You don’t have to follow if you don’t like it though.

[torn tide]

how do yall manage to restealth in pit of saron btw? it seems like i can never restealth cuz of how the pulls are lol

[alpine wraith]

puzzlebox+crucible

[fiery fog]

Dagger and wrist/belt

[gleaming crane]

thx

[jade urchin]

restealth doesnt matter at all for sub

dont stress it

[alpine wraith]

heart of wind is fine but you need to kinda know when it procs

to snapshot extra secs on dances

so it is annoying

[torn tide]

oh

great thanks

[alpine wraith]

you do care for the first dance

but in m0 you wont have much time

[gleaming crane]

wrist with haste/crit or haste/mastery ?

[torn tide]

yeaa its crazy

[jade urchin]

usually mastery, haste only if u still need to reach haste threshholds

cant really trust the sim with haste sadly

[hot seal]

This is based on time out of combat, not stealth

[jade urchin]

being stealthed makes u less likely to be in combat is the point here i think

[hollow forum]

The hc loot is from +7s?

[jade urchin]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[hollow forum]

Ty sir

[lilac stag]

Not entirely true. Dragging a shit chain pullls of a single mob near death into another pack wastes TFD opportunities.

If you’re pulling low group into new groups that benefits everyone.

[last burrow]

Do we have a catalyst charge this week ?

[slate nest]

We should

Wait

If we get 2nd catalyst

We can catalyst 4set

With 2k rio + 1.6 pvp

[vestal relic]

thats only one

its the same achievement

[sullen flare]

u get one for either not both