subtlety

[lucid jackal]

U have built in like, when Ur at medium energy heres a bunch from the apex

Mega chillen

[plush roost]

Dont even force drop envenom half the time since id overcap

[chrome palm]

are you guys saving kingsbane for 3rd boss in p1

[lucid jackal]

U could legit /sit p1 idk

I did half the time and didn't the other half

[plush roost]

Idk havent walked in since thursday, on our pace it felt like it would be chill

[chrome palm]

just a lot of amps on that one usually

and you hold anyways

[oak sorrel]

p1 was drilling my ass with the amount of shit on the ground

[warm marlin]

i have 30% feint uptime

i be soaking those puddles

[shrewd lantern]

in the waiting room?

[plush roost]

Ig u should send, even if u cant send immediately in p2 youre only getting 1 deathmark anyway

[warm marlin]

yes

it's quite insane

like if you get trinket in opener you won't even end up using them

[plush roost]

Id have to look at timers tmrw night

[warm marlin]

so second goes at 25s you still have 4 saved up

hidden tech no share!

[shrewd lantern]

[chrome palm]

yeah im feintmaxxing as well dw

[plush roost]

One shuffle match my group played footsie for 45 seconds and i just danced for fun

Free supercharger W

[warm marlin]

im gapped gg

i guess assa is just that squishy

[grave cove]

Is there a macro that changes backstab to shadowstrike back n forth? I see ppl using it but dno what the command is

[chrome palm]

minimesser built like an anemic hot topic cashier

[warm marlin]

bangusgoppy decided to see if the tank hit on vorasius was considered aoe

it is not

[chrome palm]

LOL

[warm marlin]

you may be deceived by its circular shape

🧐

or maybe some parts are aoe

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sent-flying-cat-sent-flying-gif-3754963774673109749

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-ai-pufferfish-cat-puffer-fish-ai-pufferfish-cat-ai-ai-gif-3219711934296360561

Feint pov

[warm marlin]

this one is a banger

[hazy lichen]

what does it mean engage the protocol

[tribal blade]

yeah we just did prog with 30 man raid

feels rough

[high grotto]

with weaponmaster not talented, do we still shadowstrike in 3 target

[chrome palm]

The 30 man no rogue split

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-creepypasta-cat-schizo-cat-mentalcat-gif-2156904392573334588

[mild knoll]

Hello everyone. Looking over my damage (pathetic), I noticed that my SB damage is about half of what it should be when to compared to other SUB rogues. Not getting enough evis in? Need to get 2 SD in during the SB window correct? Any other suggestions after looking at this log? TIA https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YQTjhwdMtGVXnC1K?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=1

[fallow rampart]

Guys can I ask correctly way to use dance second stack. Do we use it on CDG or we just spam it when up?

[tribal blade]

pain and suffering

[tribal blade]

you don't need to worry about dance stacks until blades is about to come off cd

you just send 1 dance when sectec is off cd outside of blades

inside blades x2 dances

[fallow rampart]

But where I should use second dance?

[tribal blade]

just sit on it

till sectec comes off cd

if you use dance charges as they come off cd you will run out of dances to use with sectec

which is very bad

[high grotto]

what do we do then if we dont have 2 SD for blades, do we just send with one

[fallow rampart]

But I always wait when dance up and use with sectec, or u mean I shouldn’t wait and lost any second when sectec up?

[tribal blade]

hold blades till you ahve enough

[tribal blade]

you can think of dance as a cd you ONLY send with sectec

they are basically 1 button

[fallow rampart]

Especially in raid ye? In dungeon we can use second dance for burst?

[tribal blade]

nah do the same thing everywhere

it actually makes it quite simple, for most of the rotation you're just looking at sectec cd

[full spade]

this was turbo aids lol

[fallow rampart]

Well I should change my mind and think I’m playing only with sectec and blades (dances always up with that) ye?

[full spade]

ty @night thistle ❤️

[night thistle]

[tribal blade]

before blades you want to make sure you will be able to have x2 dance charges during it

even if that means holding blades a little while

you watch your 2nd dance charge to have enough cd

[fallow rampart]

In blades i should use second dance instantly after first finished ? Or for something special

[tribal blade]

if you won't be able to use sectec during the 2nd dance yeah just send insta

without tier you definitely just send x2 dances back to back

[fallow rampart]

Btw we can’t use 2 sectec for blades?

[tribal blade]

without tier there's no shot

with tier during lust and guidon trinket i think you can

[open swan]

Do I use haste trink B4 dance?

[tribal blade]

before dance during blades yeah

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

at least 0.2 seconds before that dance

[hollow spear]

Saving dance for 2nd sectec feels so cursed without lust, even with a haste trinket

[open swan]

So trinket<blades<dance not dance then blades?

[fallow rampart]

Ty, I’m green logs in pug normal and idk why, thinking I’m use everything with correctly things

[tribal blade]

yeah start doing all that and your logs will go way up

[fallow rampart]

Trying understand but hard watching logs when u play that class 1 week

[tribal blade]

fun thing is this is the mega simplified version of sub 😉

[tribal blade]

oi

[short radish]

yeah?

[tribal blade]

nuthin

heeehe

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

we didn't down crown

couldn't get past P2

next week for sure

[hollow spear]

I swear to god. How did we go from "we're a two button spec, way too simple" to our discord looking like this?

[near hemlock]

wait on pull do we wait for lust before our CD's?

Right now im bascially popping CD's 2nd globa, then geting lust so sectec comes up before dance (if i pop 2nd dance in opener)

feels super awkwards

[fallow rampart]

Ye ik, but anyway on fury and assa last season i was with orange or purple logs hc and myth, but now i green, I’m not last idiot ig but can’t found why green logs now

[tribal blade]

maybe sub is less brain dead than people think

[near hemlock]

Sims dont account for it cause theyt give lust from the very start

[short radish]

our kill btw

[short radish]

split melee and ranged

[spiral needle]

turns out the game is a little more complicated than reading icyveins and hitting a dummy poorly for 5 min

[tribal blade]

nauuuurrrrwww

[hollow spear]

Clean

[short radish]

make sure melee dont drop shit badly

[tribal blade]

yeah i was being pretty good about drops

[short radish]

cross the line when stuff isnt happening (something about shield up does damage)

thats about it for p2

[tribal blade]

we kept missing adds with lines in P2

[short radish]

oh yeah and do the main mechanic

[tribal blade]

so healers were unable to keep up lol

to be fair trying to do those lines with 30+ people in the raid

all stacked on top of each other

with a billion spell effects going on

jesus christ

[unreal silo]

is it legal to go below haste cap so very rare neck sims higher for me in droptimizer?

[small vortex]

illegal

[tribal blade]

don't do that, not worth it

[fallow rampart]

In raid like first boss do we hold on adds sectec or just send ?

[fallow rampart]

I also thinking about I only have 300 haste now, is it big problem ?

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that's way too low

[short radish]

for once i'm ignoring the robot and going by feelycraft

[tribal blade]

you need over double that

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

for haste?

[short radish]

yeah

told me to drop to like 14% haste

[tribal blade]

i aimed to get slightly over 684

and then with oils it's over 700

feels more comfortable that way

whenever i go lower in haste i can actually feel it

[short radish]

yeah

rather play what feels comfortable

[warm marlin]

my gear has me at 670 rn

i just need to game

[tribal blade]

damn cutting it close

but you're big mode

i am teeny tiny mode

i need more cushion 😉

[short radish]

same

[tribal blade]

i think stealthi hit exactly 684 with oils on

[chrome palm]

Definitely missing some at 650

Oiled up

But it’s so much mastery to lose to use a haste ring

[warm marlin]

my actual haste on gear is 477 cuh

we are heavy reliant on that r2 flask

[tropic field]

If we want to parse on chimaerus do we pump adds aswell or do logs only go for boss dmg?

[short radish]

i need crutches

[tribal blade]

this is me w/o oils on

[short radish]

i think thats without oils as well

[tribal blade]

it actually makes me kinda depressed seeing vers so low

[hollow spear]

#notmysubrogue

[warm marlin]

does anyone have an easy macro that lets me remove all of my gear and put it all back on btw

for no reason in particular at all

maybe swapping between 2 gear sets

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[tribal blade]

i do not sorry champ

[short radish]

take off all your gear and save that as an equipment set

[tribal blade]

lol nice

[short radish]

0% vers

[warm marlin]

i need to be able to press a button to trigger it

we are doing testing with haste stuff

[short radish]

you can bind equipment gear sets

[warm marlin]

and i cba waiting for guidon perma

[short radish]

or am i misunderstanding

[warm marlin]

ok wait if i can bind them that works

i test this

[short radish]

gl

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/bag-bags-gif-9837069262050092181

[short radish]

bro last night one of the hpal put beacon (actual beacon) on me

[hollow spear]

It's literally over for us

I was so tanky during lou and mfo

[fallow nimbus]

Do you sectec off dragons or sectec a small orb?

[tribal blade]

i was doing it off dragon

because orbs get flung around

grips and stuff

also to get sectec on cd asap

but maybe i'm wrong

[fallow nimbus]

It's the only fight i did terrible

[warm marlin]

no wei your clones are cleaving the orbs from center of dragon

[hollow spear]

Sectec on dragon is not padmaxxing

[fallow nimbus]

Let's get this shitters out of our logs

[small vortex]

boss dead maxxing sectec on dragon

[tribal blade]

damn so that 95 i have could have been higher haha

i think parsing that is also dependent on how much dmg your raid has

[warm marlin]

it freezes my game for half a second

[fallow nimbus]

If people put orbs around and under dragon it's fine

[warm marlin]

i guess i am waiting for guidon every time

[short radish]

[tropic field]

How much stronger is deathstalker during ST?

[short radish]

do you need to unequip everything?

[warm marlin]

im just trying to get a way to flip my haste up and down often

so not everything

[short radish]

you could try equip a ring

/equipslot 13 <ring name>

wait not 13

[warm marlin]

more specifically i need enough of a difference to easily tell the difference in dance duration

i already have tfd on to amplify the results

[short radish]

ah

[warm marlin]

there is a 1s clock on my screen

[short radish]

well if you did want to use heavy haste rings -> no haste rings

its equip slot 11 and 12

oh no

nononono

[chrome palm]

I’m sure you tried flask macro

[warm marlin]

you think im made of money pal

[chrome palm]

Don’t you sell

[warm marlin]

i bought a boe ring for 2.5M or something in mfo

im broke

[small vortex]

just drop a boe

[short radish]

this is why i created a superfund for my mate when i did boosting with him

i'd take 10% of his earnings and keep it

[warm marlin]

[short radish]

because he'd always go into an expansion broke

[warm marlin]

i have like 1.5M but ive run this test like 20 times

im not about to burn 600gold a piece on haste flasks cancelauraing them bro

[short radish]

could do ptr

or too laggy

[warm marlin]

im in murder row

wait why did that work

[chrome palm]

What are you trying

Swapping gear after hitting dance?

[astral axle]

we did vanguard tonight and wow

rogue just sucks

[vale pine]

we suck 3% less with the reset

[short radish]

wooooooo

[astral axle]

[hollow spear]

Hinging rogue's viability on vanguard might not be the play

[astral axle]

yeah i felt like things were fine otherwise. just felt bad on that fight is all

[short radish]

lords of dread all over again

[astral axle]

that brought me back to a dark place

[fallow rampart]

What we lost if we have low haste ?

[hollow spear]

Dance gcd

Mate, did you read any guide at all?

No offense, but your questions so far don't make me feel like you did.

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hollow spear]

#subtlety-faq

[fallow rampart]

I also read when ppls saying u can play -200 haste. Also about questions English not my main language and I’m bad on it. When I ask ppls they speak on easiest way usually in dialog, and if I’m not understand something I can re ask

[weary tree]

Those people are wrong then. 200 haste is too little now

[fallow rampart]

I mean 400, if u play keys mostly

I know what I lost in global key, but not deep diff

[weary tree]

The amount of haste for keys doesn't change, only the value of mastery vs crit

[fallow rampart]

Someone make pov on yt, with every boss midnight raid ? Can u recommend good one ?

[fossil crystal]

hey, so if i understood the Anciant arts nod correctly, when im in shadow dance, full combo points and have the ancient arts buff i do finisher, if i do NOT have the buff i do shadowstrike even if full combo points? 🙂

[keen dome]

Only if you have a supercharger combie avaliable.

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[keen dome]

Just follow the sequence here at every step.

[fossil crystal]

i miss weakauras, was easier to keep track of these things x(

[weary tree]

Not really

Just track your buffs and find out yourself like this

It's not too complicated when you get used to it

[fossil crystal]

aha, well im pretty new to it, trying to learn.... got green logs in raid last night and not sure if im just bad or did miss something major x)

[wild vine]

WAs would kinda show the same info

In that case

[weary tree]

It's not a very major increase

It's not gonna make your green logs pink 😛

[keen dome]

Green is fine for week 1. Don't worry too much about the brutal number if you are killing bosses. Improvements will come as you get comfortable with the fight and the spec.

[wild vine]

Probably more like going from 95 to 90 or smth

Gear and timers are way too different rn to care too much about logs ye

[weary tree]

Better yet try to see when people are using cds and how to make use of timers in the fights

[keen dome]

Yeah, lorggs is a fantastic resource for that.

[tribal blade]

cd timings are the biggest thing right now

[fossil crystal]

cant say that was "good" x)

[keen dome]

But timers are massively variable atm, because we're all so gear disperate.

[keen dome]

Was that on heroic?

[fossil crystal]

ye

[keen dome]

So you killed 4 heroic bosses week 1. That's pretty good, damage or not, they died.

[weary tree]

Still nothing to be ashamed of

[keen dome]

Now you improve over the resets.

This is mine.

[weary tree]

Kills > parses

[west tide]

guys i might be da mage goat

[fossil crystal]

ye, but im still 257 haha, got flamed by the guild... x)

[weary tree]

ye i kinda trolled early too xd

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

It's espescially rough if you are pugging. Also, kill times really matter for parses.

And right now they're very long.

[weary tree]

esp chim with 10 min fights

[keen dome]

Yeah, haha

Also note the difference in damage not being that large between an 87 and a 39. 9k DPS.

[tribal blade]

wish i could go back and redo chimaerus

[fossil crystal]

how do u guys track Super charge? haha

[crystal igloo]

is the best way to do this just looking at the casts then events?

[fossil crystal]

now i feel rly bad 😮

[keen dome]

I push dance and I know I have two charges

[tribal blade]

nah don't feel bad haha

i'm a degen

[weary tree]

Lorrgz is best for cd timings, the cast/events is best to see how people are just doing their rotation

[keen dome]

I love that a 74 is 56k and a 39 is 51k lol

[weary tree]

If youre doubting if youre doing it right, then that's the way to check it better

[tribal blade]

yeah lorrgs is really good

[crystal igloo]

Thank you! Been trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong here

[warm marlin]

lorrgs and logs a little less reliable than they usually are since its week1

[keen dome]

And if you are ever confused or unsure about something specific, you can ask in here and someone will probably know.

[tribal blade]

lol yeah, this was me also not really knowing when to send stuff

so i didn't plan very well

[keen dome]

I think on Paladins, I saw someone get 3k more DPS than me and it put them at around 60? it's very funny how small the dif is atm

[fossil crystal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/tarren-mill/xeroy Mind taking a look? it might be something im missing that is worth mentioning x)

[warm marlin]

some good players will kill early with bad gear and some lesser good players will kill later with good gear and parse better so the results are less flatly trustworthy

[crystal igloo]

I have not played the game in a very long time, just trying to get better

[weary tree]

yep i killed mine day 1 with like no gear at all

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i can imagine for sub on that fight in partcular

we do so little dmg on it

[keen dome]

Where do I fall on this, when I'm a bad player with bad gear killing early??

[warm marlin]

sometimes good players will kill late with good gear and the reverse!

[tribal blade]

we did heroic clear yesterday

[warm marlin]

depends on your raid times

[tribal blade]

and i have 0pc

[keen dome]

High5 team 0 tier

[tribal blade]

so it was a kinda feels bad moment

well technically i have 1 pc haha

[warm marlin]

my main absolutely getting in there on H vanguard

big 245

[keen dome]

I'm amazed the Lightblinded pug didn't kick me. I was doing 10k less DPS than the next person up, but I guess they wanted Atrophic and I wasn't fucking mechanics.

[tribal blade]

80k SHEEEEESH

meanwhile everyone else doing double

[warm marlin]

wait that was the split alt

nvm

main was 250 already

[keen dome]

I'm absolutely playing Lightblinded wrong though and have no fucking clue

[weary tree]

lol yes i was rank 1 when i did it with 78k yet i was like last on the meters

fucking hunters

[tribal blade]

yeah sub is useless on that fight

[weary tree]

I got fed 2 swords to play outlaw on mythic

OGnna be fun

[keen dome]

Nice

swordman

[tribal blade]

the change to nimble and the nerf were 2 nails in the coffin

[wild vine]

Bro same

Idk that fight is different

[keen dome]

I was like okay just spam BP?? but then I just kept hard swapping to break the shield to feel useful

[tribal blade]

but they can't buff BP without making sub OP in aoe

so the only toggle is nimble

[keen dome]

Also 'cheesing' the heal absorb on Senn

[wild vine]

Yeah I also was playing around with talents

Will probably just play sin there next week

[warm marlin]

[tribal blade]

i think sin will be good on that fight

[tribal blade]

LOL

it's so sad

[wild vine]

Will atleast be way less awkward feeling-wise

[weary tree]

exactly what I had too

[sullen bridge]

I feel that crown is the shittiest fight for me atleast. Everyone else is padding so much on the little adds in p1

[native zodiac]

Paladins we are just bound to be a 3.6 dr bot

It is what it is

[weary tree]

pad doesnt really matter so much then though

[tribal blade]

less awkward and also sin is really good at evening out hp

[warm marlin]

yep

[weary tree]

IT's p3 what you gotta worry about

[wild vine]

Also true

There just is something revolting about BPing most of the fight

[weak atlas]

is there a way to make the clanker not use shadowmeld in sims? as thats not really a thing in raids

[tribal blade]

anyone with half a brain will not be looking at the add dmg on logs

[short radish]

doesnt matter for sub (probably doesnt matter for sin)

[tribal blade]

and just the mini boss+boss dmg

[keen dome]

Yeah

[native zodiac]

How did your splits go, we got 0 guidons in 3 splits

[weak atlas]

prob yea just wanted to check what the clanker likes pressing generally without having meld there but all good

[tribal blade]

i also fully expect logs to remove the void droplet dmg soon

because it's fake dmg

[weary tree]

oh yeah I think so too

That's just dumb

[wild vine]

Noone I know seemingly got trinkets. Only the int stuff dropped

[short radish]

the 3 remaining shadowpriests and 50000 boomkins did not like this message

[keen dome]

big same

[native zodiac]

If you are aoeing on cosmos you are doing something wrong, you are better off hitting the big adds dmg amp

[tribal blade]

FUCK EM

[keen dome]

As far as I can tell, the only part that matters is P3 damage on heroic 'cos of how tight it is. But the groups I was in couldn't get through P2.

[short radish]

shhhh dont post the secret technique

[native zodiac]

My bad

[warm marlin]

we actually didn't see a single guidon other than the heroic one that dropped for my main

[weary tree]

True. It's tight if you have some dead weight but otherwise it should be fine

[warm marlin]

unlucky for the dk in other group

[native zodiac]

Not bad, i got a gaze and 4set on my main

[tribal blade]

i had mondo insane lag issues for the first half of crown prog

really bad lag

[warm marlin]

i dont think guidon ilvl will actually matter all too much

[tribal blade]

and still was able to do decent dmg to the mini bosses and prio targets

[warm marlin]

surely u get one soon

[native zodiac]

Ye i doubt either

My unholy dk got one from lfr

So next one is mine

[keen dome]

Ye. In my attempts it was add issues, tank issues, weird issues, goop issues.

[weary tree]

p2 is kinda hard for pugs i can imagine

[keen dome]

Pugging it felt pretty miserable and while it's possible I just don't think I care enough to suffer for hours on hours this reset.

[weary tree]

Cooridnated grips make p2 so much better

[tribal blade]

we had a few people seriously struggling on the fight

[keen dome]

But DK's don't have a raid buff!!!

[tribal blade]

and if you have enough people having issues on crown it's a lot of wiping to the same stuff

[keen dome]

But yeah absolutely, more grips and more coordination. And then you just wipe to P3 enrage because damage is so tight.

It's less annoying than Ansurek for sure. At least getting to P2 is relatively easy and then you can get reps in.

But not as fun as Dimensius or Gallywiz

[vale pine]

how is everyone on this sunny monday?

[keen dome]

it's raining

[weary tree]

I dont like p1 because of the chaos with all the adds and general area denial of it

[tribal blade]

super duper mr cooper

[weary tree]

It's snowing here so not too great

[tribal blade]

it's just annoying for melee

you're perma dodging the entire time

[weary tree]

lol yep

[native zodiac]

I actually thought it was a cool fight

[weary tree]

p3 i think is cool

[tribal blade]

it's interesting how there was such a big jump in difficulty

from the first 5 bosses to crown

[keen dome]

Ye I just didn'tt hink it was that bad though.

Duo dragons and crown hardest fights

[tribal blade]

i actually found the duo dragons very chill

but yeah it's not easy

[weary tree]

dragons wasnt too hard imo once you just don't fucking stack the balls

[native zodiac]

Paladins will be the hardest fight bc i might mentally crash out

[keen dome]

Easiest to hardest on heroic:
Saladbar 2.0 -> Lightblinded -> Voraius ->> Imperator ->>> Chimarius ->>>> Duo Dragons ->>>>>> Crown

[warm marlin]

same

i like dodging all the time

the other fights were kinda boring

[keen dome]

Dwagons was legit just the first cycle though, 99% of pugs are dying to dread breath

[quick marlin]

lightblinded there is insane

[tribal blade]

i do enjoy the adadad strafing

[keen dome]

Lightblinded is so easy on heroic

[quick marlin]

right but not easier than vorasius

[weary tree]

Just aoe and run

[quick marlin]

vorasius is a target dummy

[weary tree]

lightblinded, more like lightheaded

[keen dome]

Voraius has a harder enrage

[native zodiac]

Gonna go hard on mythic

[warm marlin]

oh ye except for the fact were gonna be on assa

[weary tree]

Chim is also boring af

[warm marlin]

but the fight gonna be

[native zodiac]

[quick marlin]

[tribal blade]

feels like sin will be so good on crown

when it's tuned more

[weary tree]

I think it'll depend on mythic mechanics

[warm marlin]

puzzie b with 2nd pot and 2nd dm in execute in p3

[weary tree]

Outlaw doesn't seem too terrible either

[warm marlin]

you're gonna do insane damage

[tribal blade]

yeah the execute will be huge

[weary tree]

Execute it always good yep

[keen dome]

We need to develop secret sub techniques on Lightblinded that make us invaluable

[tribal blade]

and also spamming envenoms into the P1 adds

[warm marlin]

im pretty sure spriest will just break the fight in p1 on mythic

[tribal blade]

prob yeah

[warm marlin]

our guy was sandbagging a bit and he still obliterated it

[keen dome]

Agreed

[warm marlin]

the interaction between amps on main target and plink is just gross

[tribal blade]

i already did normal crown as sin on my splits rogue, it felt pretty good

[short radish]

i wonder how much of the plink nerf was because of this fight

[upbeat sorrel]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[warm marlin]

unironically some probably

[short radish]

the ol zul treatment

[native zodiac]

Puzzle b

[warm marlin]

you'd be cleaving at like 240% plink

comparatively

[warm marlin]

solve the puzzle lil gup

press feint and stick it

[native zodiac]

Hated it in s1 df

Opinion didnt change

[keen dome]

the puzzle is finding a better trinket

[short radish]

did i share my puzzlebox opener on crown with you?

[tribal blade]

fim did a boss opener on crown

new tech

[short radish]

absolute peak

[tribal blade]

what a gigachad

[weary tree]

LOL

[native zodiac]

Jesus

[warm marlin]

now that is a banger

[short radish]

ofc its the kill pull

only pull i fumbled

[weary tree]

Man forgot that you needed to go to an escape room to solve the puzzle first

[fossil crystal]

Anyone playing with Ayje CDM?

[short radish]

just me sandbagging logs so we get buffed again

[warm marlin]

you saw my greatest cold blood use ever right

[short radish]

no need to thank me

[warm marlin]

it was a while back in tww2

[short radish]

no

[warm marlin]

omg

[short radish]

do share

[short radish]

coldblood into backstab?

[native zodiac]

The p1 dmg diff is insane depending when you hit the adds with your dances

[keen dome]

amazing

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

LOL

[weary tree]

Some absolute chads we have here

No wonder we got the 3% buff

[sullen bridge]

I have now seen a few guides saying that i should use shadowstrike on 2 targets in aoe and others that say up to 3 targets. Whats ur take guys?

[short radish]

4 targets

[weary tree]

Which guides are you reading

[short radish]

🙂

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[warm marlin]

i was so thoroughly stunlocked that i just stood still and died to a mugzee mine right after the screenshot ends

[short radish]

LOL

i mean if everyone here was asked "have you done a coldblood backstab at least once"

and they answered no

i'd call bs

[tribal blade]

i figured out why you were stunlocked

[pallid lodge]

I randomly clicked on your log while scrolling and when I saw this I was so confused

[warm marlin]

rip symbols flag and rupture though

good times

[short radish]

please do not look at my logs

holy shit they are bad

[keen dome]

the 'ol tirfecta of sub abilities

[pallid lodge]

did you at least know in the moment?

[native zodiac]

There isnt a raid night where i dont miss tww s3 sub

[keen dome]

i'm gonna look at them

[short radish]

yes

i wanted to jump off the platform

[warm marlin]

these old log screenshots used to make me laugh and now they make me sad

[short radish]

bro i literally got off a plane (delayed 30 mins) ran straight off as soon as i could into the taxi

[warm marlin]

now what do we have

[native zodiac]

Imagine manaforge sub on these fights man

[short radish]

just in time to find out my raid had already cleared normal + first boss heroic

[warm marlin]

a one second clock

[short radish]

🕰️

[native zodiac]

I read that in the other discord and closed it real quick

[short radish]

seriously do not try and learn anything from any of my logs this week. even the crown one I have done so many egregious things wrong

[tribal blade]

S3 TWW sub would be banging on paladins

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[short radish]

pour one out for s3 tww sub

RIP in peace

[keen dome]

I really miss our cleave

[pallid lodge]

i wrote it down

[short radish]

same

[keen dome]

they knew we'd be too strong on a specific single fight

[warm marlin]

would you rather get griefed by random poll intervals or have a disgusting bar in the middle of your screen that you need to watch before cds perma

[pallid lodge]

at least i have guidon instead of puzzle box

[viscid ocean]

yo lads, in the best possible case we want 15 or 20% haste?

[weary tree]

Something like that yes

[native zodiac]

Can i say no to both

[weary tree]

Mostly right in the middle

[warm marlin]

blizzard says no

[native zodiac]

Okay I play outlaw

[tribal blade]

just pray blizz actually notices

and does something

[warm marlin]

[tribal blade]

the issue is beyond tuning tbh

now that we're relying on storm to gen CP again

[viscid ocean]

so the best best best spot will be ~17,5?

[tribal blade]

sub's cleave is gonna be shitty

[weary tree]

We either have full aoe or full ST

Anything in between is just sucky

[weary tree]

yep

[warm marlin]

I will say that that thing is definitely the most devious thing I've ever cooked up

my bad team

[sullen bridge]

The method guide digger from icy veins and wowhead for example. It says shadowstrike on 2 targets.

Differ*

[native zodiac]

Jokes on you i dont have a guidon

😎

[warm marlin]

saved

[short radish]

i strike on 2 and storm on 3

[fossil crystal]

Is it any idea to use Shadow technique if i got the shadow technique buff? hehe

[high grotto]

jokes on you i dont have any loot

[sullen bridge]

I do too. But then i read the icy veins and wowhead guide saying i should ss on 3 targets aswell. Blows my mind 😬

[short radish]

just do as your heart feels

[weary tree]

3 targets is optimal, but at 3 targets it's minimal gain

[wild vine]

Strike also is cooler than storm

[warm marlin]

i do believe strike on 3 is optimal now

but i need to run it myself with and without wm

[short radish]

[vale pine]

was changed recently, stealthi probably just forgot to update it

[viscid ocean]

jesus , have to go down from 25% haste to 17 then

[weary tree]

save that haste for outlaw or something

[sullen bridge]

Ok ty 😊

[tribal blade]

on crown in particular it's gotta be

[distant bison]

is there a way to track first dance buff

[tribal blade]

i was actually wondering that during P1

[warm marlin]

oh for prio it's optimal for a long time

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[warm marlin]

giga prio!

[tribal blade]

ok rad

you know i think they could make a talent for sub where casting strike fires off a 2nd strike at reduced dmg

[warm marlin]

if you want a prio tradeoff, doing the apex optimization (for all finishers, not just sc) and casting bp is a lot better than storm -> eviscerate eviscerate

[tribal blade]

that would be an easy fix

[warm marlin]

you still keep a good amount of overall by casting apex bps but your shadowstrikes give you a bunch more prio

it's still obv like a 5% or more overall loss but it's a lot better tradeoff

[lilac stag]

FAQ shows strike on 3

[tribal blade]

ohhh smart

[short radish]

with your eyeballs looking at the top right of the screen amongst the 50 other buffs

[distant bison]

lol

i coulddnt find it on cooldown manager

i had a weakaura last season

[short radish]

same

[lilac stag]

can’t find what’s not there

[distant bison]

i had to stay invis for exxtra second or two

[fallow ingot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow ingot]

Is it worth it to swap from blood elf to Mag'har Orc ?

[gaunt goblet]

guys why when I have apex proc and use ST it doesn`t fill my combo points back?

[brisk moth]

why are guides recommend to craft belt as second piece with arcano weave? is it just because of bad stated alternatives on this slot?

[warm marlin]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[native zodiac]

Belt and wrist should make next to no diff as theres both a crit haste belt and wrists in the raid anyways

[void ocean]

i dont understand this macro:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

this aint one gcd?

[clear flower]

It will just prio Coup when it's available

[native zodiac]

If you have coup up it casts coup otherwise bp

[sullen bridge]

Lazy hehe

[tight monolith]

is it confirmed you can get rando cata charges on alt after gotten achieve on "main"?

[dense jasper]

no. worse xmogs

[brisk moth]

what about cloak or boots?

[haughty mural]

Based

[neon wave]

any tips for the nemesis boss on the ?? difficulity? did not tried it atm but want to do it before reset.

[rapid estuary]

3% buff will fix us

[wild vine]

Got fixed

[weary tree]

get a healer friend to boost you

[fallow ingot]

keep cds for each set of adds , play healer valeera

SD will reset our aggro

[civic lily]

what stat should i craft on dagger/belt spark crafts?

mast/hase or mast/crit?

[pliant pendant]

what pre pot u guys doing?

[wild vine]

Depends on the rest of the gear

My dagger is haste mastery and the other piece mastery crit for example, might be both Mastery crit or haste Mastery for someone else

[wild vine]

Consumables are in the guide

[lilac stag]

@short radish did you get your 2nd cata charge this week?

[glad cosmos]

If playing trickster, you can use tricks on valeera from the first add wave and keep it on her for the rest of the fight. She she wont take aggro from you for boss, but will keep adds off you, which wont kill her. That way if you cant kill adds quick enough, you will still be fine.

Shadow Dance drops threat, so use this to your advantage. Either send as normal, or use it as a way to take pressure off of you if heals are lacking and you dont have a defensive.

3rd add, if you cant kill it, honestly, just ignore it. Valeera will tank for you. Then when boss reactivates, use drums, send cds and pot and just focus boss.

[pliant pendant]

all guids says diff

[wild vine]

Wowhead guide

[neon wave]

thanks all will give it a try

[short radish]

i did on my paladin

[lilac stag]

new main I see

[short radish]

my paladin got 2set

so i figured i should

[lilac stag]

ret is hilariously good guarding bases in bgb

[kind basin]

Can someone explain to me what happened here? I'm trying to understand why I don't do a lot of damage compared to some top parsers, and I see this one cast of SecTec supposedly doing 584k damage? (sure it's on 3 targets) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/G3Zvgzmxk8cNyA4b/vdJbcCkzx4GhKqpW?fight=5%2C339&type=damage-done&source=1%2CRexsun&start=1235732%2C116494933&end=1238733%2C116497934&ability=-280720

[glad cosmos]

Don't two of those bosses bubble at the beginning?

[unique sentinel]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[near herald]

how do u guys sim? 🙂

[kind basin]

Yeah? At least one of them

[glad cosmos]

So the other guy delayed his Sect whereas you didn't

[kind basin]

I'm not mainly talking about the comparative damage, I'm talking about the damage from his one cast. I might be crazy but it just seems incredibly high for one cast. Maybe it isn't

Also, he's popping sectec in the first second, same as me, and even then he doing twice my damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/G3Zvgzmxk8cNyA4b/vdJbcCkzx4GhKqpW?fight=5%2C339&type=damage-done&source=1%2CRexsun&ability=-280720&start=1222364%2C116481565&end=1226537%2C116485738

[glad cosmos]

He does have a lot more mastery than you, which will impact finisher dmg, as well as a lot more vers

[tribal vortex]

what exactly are you asking ? the whole process or ?

[kind basin]

And 2-set as well, but still double damage seems like a lot. Maybe I should just not bother comparing myself until we're all properly geared

[glad cosmos]

ye 2 set is huge for sub

at least you're actually using shadowstrike on 3 target, whereas he isn't, so you're doing that correctly

so it might just be a gear/stat diff

[kind basin]

Fingers crossed 🤞

[near herald]

no like how do i tell raidbots that i want 700haste?

[weary tree]

also he's using a pot at pull, you're not

[tribal vortex]

you don't it usually brings you to around 600-650 so you addl ike 50

[glad cosmos]

Trust whatever raidbots says

[tribal vortex]

yeah trust but adjust accordingly for human brain lag

[near herald]

600 with buffs? do i sim without raidbuffs? 🙂

[tribal vortex]

it had me at 670 haste i change a wrist and got to 690

[near herald]

for m+ i take no buffs and patchwerk 5? for the best gear?

[kind basin]

That's odd, it's macroed into my Shadow Blades so I think it's actually active just that it doesn't show because it was used just before the pull maybe I didn't actually 🤔

[tribal blade]

use dungeon slice for M+

[tribal vortex]

dungeon slice for m+

[near herald]

aight much love ty 🙂

[fair wedge]

in the opener if i still have 1-2s left of my 2nd dance do i full send sec tec or wait till next d ance?

[near herald]

with no buffs ? 🙂

[short radish]

is there a reason the DS ST tree doesnt take sectech talent

[glad cosmos]

Sect isn't as strong for DS

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

yeah you're taking 2/2 finality

[void ocean]

wait

WHAT

[tribal blade]

because DN hits pretty damn hard

[void ocean]

oh no wait, thats improved sec tech

[tribal blade]

DS is our ST tree anyways so even less reason to take imp sectec

[haughty mural]

DS my n..

[tribal blade]

it depends, if you're trying to see what gear is best it's fine to have all buffs active i think

[haughty mural]

does the mark disappear on chimeara ?

[tribal blade]

there's 0 shot i'm gonna even try DS on that fight haha

adds gotta die anyways 😉

[haughty mural]

didnt have time to do many bosses on my rogue

yea fair - would probably send trickster on most fights anyway

[tribal blade]

yeah the vast majority of people are just playing trickster

[haughty mural]

as will I

[vale pine]

the diffrence is not that big tho

if you want to, can use it

[haughty mural]

if my shout duty ends

[vale pine]

its like 0.x% dps

like 0.4 or so iirc

[sullen bridge]

Can someone explain to a noob why the single target build take entropic and cleave builds take mind numbing?

[tribal vortex]

atrophic is for raid

while numbing is better in keys

[swift moth]

i just came back to wow, what are the thoughts on how much they removed from sub rogue? i think its quite rough

[tribal blade]

you would be better off taking atrophic in all content

numbing is good for trash in keys

but doesn't really do anything on bosses

but it's heavily dependent on preference

[tepid trellis]

its only good on bosses that does massive melee swings

[sullen bridge]

But atrophic works on bosses?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag sin tier?

[lilac stag]

It’s fine. Every spec lost a lot. Sub just had way more bloat to get rid of. It opened the spec up to more players who are still struggling to min max it with “2 buttons”

[tribal vortex]

What?

15% reduced attack speed

doesn't work on bosses?

[tribal blade]

yeah that just helps the tank

[lilac stag]

Already? I thought it was year of the pirate.

[tribal blade]

whereas atrophic helps the entire group

and rarely on M+ bosses is the tank the one who's dying

[lilac stag]

the tank is usually the easiest to heal

[tribal blade]

haha hellll nawww

[tribal vortex]

the total dr gained by numbing is way more than atrophic. Atrophic can be good in ultra high keys only where you could be oneshot

if you are not one shot by a boss mechanic numbing will be way better in keys

[tribal blade]

maybe things have changed since i was last pushing

but atrophic was usually the go to

you did see numbing being played sometimes

but more often than not atrophic

[lilac stag]

I have the perfect debate. Atrophic or Numbing for ?? Delve

[tribal blade]

oh true that guy swings so hard

[tribal vortex]

usually trash packs are more dangerous in high keys cause tank does very big pulls. So 15% attack speed is a damage gain

[tribal blade]

uhhhh

i wouldn't say that

bosses on title range keys are very hard

very very hard

[tribal vortex]

depends on the boss

[tribal blade]

like butt clenching hard

[tribal vortex]

and also some of their spells are not reduced by atrophic anyways

[tribal blade]

yeah for sure

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade why are we back to assa tier? Am I going turn into a rbg solo shuffle sub goon?

[tribal blade]

but every time i asked a healer which one they prefered, it was always atrophic

[tribal vortex]

Also if you are not in mdi also the reduced cast speed helps the situation

[tribal blade]

i mean this is not a hill i'm gonna die on

this is just my experience

[vale pine]

4% buff > 3% buff

[tribal blade]

sin might actually be really good on crown

[weary tree]

Useful > good

Think it might not be fantastic, but very useful for execute then

Since p3 dmg is king

[tribal blade]

yeah sin has a good dmg profile for that fight

[lilac stag]

I see.

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/drunk-raccoon-L6JsnQOgrKMTK

[tribal blade]

but i was mostly trying to rile you up haha ❤️

[weary tree]

Dont like assa @lilac stag ?

[lilac stag]

I rather watch the grass grow in dead ass winter

[vale pine]

but as prophet mentioned

crown p1 seems fairly whatever

so p2 and 3 is what matters

p3 is essentially extended execute

[faint hemlock]

What trinkets from M+ should we run with?

Puzzle box sims good but seems annoying to use with cast pre cds?

And vessel is also a bait since u have to find all balls?

[vale pine]

puzzle box is rly good, can line it up to pulls

[tepid trellis]

however with how timings are sub can get 2x uses in p2 Assa can not

[vale pine]

vessel is annoying to use in m+

[lilac stag]

let’s wait and see what the mythic mechanics and timings are

[vale pine]

ohhh, thats good information

i forgot to look at p2 timers

[lilac stag]

before we crown it an assa fight.

[vale pine]

👀

sub fight

[weary tree]

in p2? Yeah that was kinda nice to have

[tepid trellis]

you do get 2mins back but if you send them you wont have them for lust in p3

[lilac stag]

AND WE LIKE LUST

https://tenor.com/view/crushed-it-gif-18087987023179949748

[vale pine]

yes

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

that changes things yeah

[vale pine]

huge 1.7% from lust

[weary tree]

Why does @vale pine still use his sheet command when you can just save it in your browser 🤔

[tepid trellis]

jokes on you

discord is on his browser

the double whammy

[weary tree]

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis I just realized your race change truly brings you into “trash panda” role. Raccoon life.

[tepid trellis]

yes

[vale pine]

i only have the editable verson bookmarked, and its actually easier to click stuff and not accidentally delete or move something when i use the command

[tribal vortex]

Guys i got shoulders hero 3/6 is it safe to upgrade to 6? or I should wait ?

[vale pine]

true

[weary tree]

Cant you control click?

Doesn't that do the same

[weary tree]

Also this gives me anxiety

[faint hemlock]

What if i got light trinket? I run double on use?

[vale pine]

i never tested double on use in m+

[hollow spear]

What's the cook? The guidon stuff?

[vale pine]

it feels like you give up overall for it

[faint hemlock]

Its for raid, but i need something to run with the light trinket during progress and untill i get second raid trinket

[tribal blade]

noooo not again

not the dreaded double on use

[weary tree]

If he never tests it, then nobody will know it is better

[lilac stag]

It’s happening

[tribal blade]

true!

[tribal blade]

noo say it isn't so

[vale pine]

there are enough m+ pushers who will ^^

[weary tree]

But they don't matter

[lilac stag]

Just play assa

[vale pine]

double on use was before already questionable

[lilac stag]

I won’t need double on use for 3k

[tribal blade]

haha MIGHT HAPPEN

[lilac stag]

Ez fix

[vale pine]

i don't even have any on use atm

-.-

no puzzle box or haste one

even tho with how deepening shadows works

maybe thats good

haha

[lilac stag]

are you even playing the game fuu?!?!

[faint hemlock]

So Whats a realistic raid trinket setup? Assuming i have the light trinket already.

[vale pine]

i learned that the delay can be up to 1 sec

before deepening attributes your haste

[small minnow]

hi guys what setting do you use for simming

[weary tree]

1 sec?

wtf

[tribal blade]

oh no way

[vale pine]

koji explained it

[small minnow]

i mean simc for mm

[vale pine]

basically, the trinket polls 3 times every sec

[weary tree]

I did feel like it sometimes worked and sometimes not even when i precasted it

[tribal blade]

yeah i swear every time i used it my dance wasn't updated

[lilac stag]

Yeah it’s a I press trinket. Wait a tick then hit full macro for everything. Otherwise it is fuck me I hate my life.

[vale pine]

and executes a script to get the values

[lilac stag]

I think the play is macro trinket to swirly ball

[small minnow]

guys can u help to simc for mm what option do i use ?

[vale pine]

which means, the delay can be higher

you could technically use an addon to see when you logged in

to have an estimate when the trinket polls data

XD

[tribal blade]

jesus christ

[weary tree]

The RNG-meter is back

[vale pine]

but lets not do that

[tribal blade]

do you think this is something blizz will do something about

or are we stuck with working around this

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[weary tree]

What do you think

[vale pine]

i am farily certain at one point

feral has the same problem

and i did hear priest has or had it too

[tribal blade]

ah ok, so we're living with this then haha

[lilac stag]

assa tier anyways

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

respeccing right now

[vale pine]

its with Predator.

[short radish]

anyone using arcui for CP noticing some weird delay/incorrect cp showing up

[vale pine]

i wanted to setup arcui

[lilac stag]

it just started occasionally I think with last update

[vale pine]

and put import trings on wowhead

[lilac stag]

It maybe from bliz messing with stuff again

[tepid trellis]

i just use ACDM

[tribal blade]

i was thinking about setting up orbit

[tepid trellis]

havent really noticed cp delays with it

[vale pine]

but both arkui and better cdm had issues importing the configuration on the 2nd pc i tested

[tribal blade]

it sounds cool

[vale pine]

i had better cdm combo points bug out

XD

[umbral bolt]

Hello guys!
Please what settings i should put in sim? how many minutes? targets? fightstyle?

[vale pine]

it showed as if i had 5 cp

instead of 7

[weary tree]

I have arc but don't have any issues with that

[noble elk]

did they buff the ?? boss

[vale pine]

patchwerk 5 minutes for raid
dungeon slice for mythic+

don't think so

But Valeera isn't the most practical companion on the fight

[weary tree]

Don't hate on my girl Valeera

[noble elk]

i get to 70% and get clapped

[tepid trellis]

just select Dslice

[umbral bolt]

Th

Thank you guys

[tepid trellis]

thats all you need to do for m+

[noble elk]

he hits for over 100k its crazy

[rain stratus]

Are you tott’ing valeera? Only hard ish phase should be the last one

[noble elk]

yea

i have him as healer

should i have him as tank?

[tepid trellis]

healer worked the best for me

[noble elk]

kk ill try again but yea i dunno

he just cranked for 1m that pull

[viral wharf]

I didn't know valeera was a dude

[olive canyon]

have her as a healer, dont tricks her. Every time you dance the boss goes on to her any way. Stand in her circles when possible and make sure to keep getting her crimson vials

use feint when nothing is up along with your own recup

send full cds at the start - then hold for each add wave

[verbal kelp]

Any advice for sub rogues this m+ season and how not to wait hours to get an invite because you’re not meta spec?

[weary tree]

Queue for keys yourself idk

[verbal kelp]

Don’t have a team and I would like to push. This happened to me back in Shadowlands I remember and it was crap waiting for invites

[weary tree]

That's just the life I'm afraid

[grand viper]

Pug life

[tribal blade]

if you don't want to go through that reroll to a meta spec

[verbal kelp]

That’s a shame it’s designed like that and haven’t done anything bout it

[tribal blade]

if you want to stay on sub you just have to live with not getting invites

or do what i did and try really hard to get better

and make yourself more undeniable

so people will be willing to play off meta with you

[grand viper]

I mean, when you’re filling your own key I’m sure you’re biased to the better specs too

[verbal kelp]

Yeah, hopefully I get lucky and find some people that can look beyond meta spec, and add/play with them more

[grand viper]

Just play well, hope you also play with people who do. Befriend them

[tribal blade]

there are a lot of people who push on non meta specs

well not "a lot", but they're out there haha

it's a cheat code to make friends with as many of those people who play off meta as possible if you're playing off meta

[verbal kelp]

How are we comparing to meta specs in terms of overall damage in M+? I see everyone puts us in B tier but is that for damage or utility

[tribal blade]

both probably

utility wise rogue is useless

[verbal kelp]

Sub hits good now but it’s just M0

[tribal blade]

slightly less useless in the .5 patch

when we get aoe blind back

[verbal kelp]

I think if we can keep up or be close to meta spec when it comes to damage that’s what pugs usually care about right

[tribal blade]

yeah most pugs care mostly about dmg

for sure

but if you want to keep climbing

factors beyond just dmg become much more important

[verbal kelp]

So hopefully damage wise sub can keep up with meta in M+

[verbal kelp]

For sure

[hollow spear]

If you get to high keys, they will not invite you just because your damage is good

If you have shit utility, you won't get invited even if your damage looks good on the meters

[verbal kelp]

Yeah, for high keys I would hope I would’ve met some people by then to play with

[hollow spear]

The only exception is if they know you and know that you are a good player

[tribal blade]

honestly even people doing title keys still care mostly about damage

[verbal kelp]

I’m saying for early season

Until you build that network etc

[hollow spear]

Early season you just have to start early

if you are behind the curve

they will not invite you

[tribal blade]

yeah if you pug you want to go super hard early

and keep it up

[verbal kelp]

So essentially have a super high RIO early on

[uncut socket]

early season its often decent to cling onto a tank who just wants someone to help with misdirects and taking care of important cc

[tribal blade]

i've caught up from behind to make title during seasons

but it's rough

[hollow spear]

if you have 1.5k io while most pushers have 3k already, you are not getting invites

even if you're a baller

exceptions like name value apply

[torn tide]

sad, i was hoping to get to +20 this season

[verbal kelp]

Thanks guys for the advice, hopefully I can stick on to some good players early

[tribal blade]

you can for sure

you don't need to play a meta spec to get that high up

[torn tide]

lol people dont even invite if ur class isnt on A tier and above on tierlists

[tribal blade]

it's just harder

[hollow spear]

idk this whole tier list stuff

is completely overblown

[tribal blade]

a warning though, it's REALLY hard to find a group to push with

[uncut socket]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[tribal blade]

people are very much grass is greener on the other side mentality

[torn tide]

yea idk why people see and listen to it so much

[hollow spear]

most people dont need a tier list to realize that sub is shit

[uncut socket]

i do for the memes

[hollow spear]

when it comes to utility

[verbal kelp]

My plan was to just add a bunch of good players as I go along in the journey of climbing and eventually play with them more and for high keys invite etc

[alpine wraith]

rogue has been shit for utility forever kinda we just had a few really good people with friends

[uncut socket]

especially if boomkins are in their rightful spot (which blizz took them out of)

[alpine wraith]

now those people just reroll like everyone else

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z-L7EtDTAk4 this sums it up perfectly

don't even have fast shroud anymore smile

[torn tide]

lmao i thought about it but i refuse

[thorn stream]

!fu

[uncut socket]

add an u

[torn tide]

im having fun with it and i dont have time to go gear up another character

[verbal kelp]

My friend is unh dk so maybe we can get invites off of him haha

[alpine wraith]

no i mean the top people doing keys used to play rogue anyway but now they just go with what does best

because it became more competitive

[thorn stream]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

so now you cant meme it up

[torn tide]

ahh okay

[alpine wraith]

you just get overtaken

[fallow rampart]

Saw opinion about rogue , some ppls saying u can play sub, but higher keys assa will better , is it right?

[alpine wraith]

so maybe now the people that play rogue still are like top 20 or 50

[uncut socket]

man i miss jpc key blastin nights in shadowlands

[tribal blade]

likely yes

sin brings really high prio

which is massive value in keys

[short radish]

same brotherman

[alpine wraith]

yea we had many people playing rogue like casual or jpc or even seli etc

but it was never the top option

apart from the whole bfa kekw with s2 outlaw

[fallow rampart]

Sin get good prio now?

[tribal blade]

has been for a while now

deathmark is a ST cd

[alpine wraith]

nah dont trust the sin merchants they will forget to equi poisons

[tribal blade]

kingsbane is a ST cd

[verbal kelp]

Is there a reason why rogue is never a top option the last few exp for m+

[alpine wraith]

and do no dmg

[tribal blade]

you play DS that has funnel

[alpine wraith]

if you forget as sub no one notices

but you 2 keys later

[tribal blade]

you get more mainstat by spreading rupture

and spam envenoms into 1 target to do aoe

lots of prio

[alpine wraith]

people discovered raid buffs in party

are kinda good

so lets say you are a rogue right

[tribal blade]

yeah the raid buff stacking seriously became a thing during TWW

[verbal kelp]

Feels odd that blizzard isn’t doing anything about it considering it’s been a few expansions, fair enough if it was a couple seasons

[alpine wraith]

you would need to do the dmg of for example warrior or mage

[tribal blade]

it was a thing before, but not as much

[alpine wraith]

PLUS the 5% buff that USED to be even 10%

for the others

we used to have scrolls and shit

[tribal blade]

TWW people really started wanting to do it because the diff is like 10-15% across your entire group

[alpine wraith]

same with the aug debacle

of buffing tanks

[tribal blade]

which is a big dmg increase

[alpine wraith]

like it may come back