subtlety

[left ledge]

[shrewd lantern]

charrend didnt sandbag hard enough in beta though

got us nerfed smh

[left ledge]

oh we talking about alts

my alt is

a sub rogue

main sub rogue, alt sub rogue

[hollow spear]

Is that an old golfball?

[shy scarab]

Gooned too then

[fading saffron]

imagine defaulting to "show io" for skillplacement

[stuck tulip]

main trickster alt deathstalker

[balmy gate]

Same 3 rogues

[keen dome]

no, it's io. He said post io so I posted io

[shy scarab]

Are u guys fightibg over whos the better player? U both suck man

[hollow spear]

Pretty huge io

[keen dome]

It's quite yellow though

[shrewd lantern]

though not as bad as bfa

[shy scarab]

Not top 20? Wdgaf bout u

[jaunty heath]

same 😄

[shrewd lantern]

where like most high io rogues were kind of dog

[hollow spear]

Lacks purple

[fading saffron]

100%, but i suck with a capital S

[stuck tulip]

but you ran to your carried achi to post it

[fading saffron]

[hollow spear]

I only care about Lashga's opinion

[plush roost]

Rogue will be fine 4 more weeks of tuning to go as well as you cannot actuallt extrapolate real data off of a HEROIC week where profiles will not be realistic to mythic.

On beta sub rogue competed with an overtuned mage and warlock, is the nerf to powder lame? Yeah, probably necessary. Ele got buffed which means sub got buffed in keys too. Stop dooming, 3% is very good, maybe an evis buff down the line and sub is very happy.

[shrewd lantern]

the only thing less relevant than io is rbg rating

[vocal rock]

I think we all shoulda got at least 5%, 3% is kinda like almost worse than not doing anything, it’s like a ok look we totally did something can you guys shut up now

[shy scarab]

Nah bro its the class

[hollow spear]

He's #1 io

[jaunty heath]

guys with all this energy, dont forget to kill delve boss for extra mythic crests 😄

[shrewd lantern]

real goat totally didnt buy rating

[hushed roost]

did you guys just stay sub on heroic vanguard?

[shrewd lantern]

then flex #1 io like a resume

[bleak night]

no he actually sucks

[chrome palm]

3% buff guys im so sorry for ever doubting

[crimson thorn]

Guys, i just noticed in the wowhead sub BIS gear list it says Legs from Pit of Saron with Crit/Haste, but in game those legs are Haste/Mastery, in case you want to fix it

[fading saffron]

can confirm, he raids with me

[azure mauve]

these are prob the last tuning we'll see for a hot min

like maybe mon

[plush roost]

They have tuning scheduled for next 2 week iirc

[vagrant sinew]

they said theyll do 2 more I just have a hard time believing it

[plush roost]

And then .5 patch obv

[hollow spear]

You better make this a long form video apology

[shrewd lantern]

some intern dialed in a 3% buff

and called it

[vagrant sinew]

historically atleast thats rarely happened

[keen dome]

So there's still hope for the comedy BP buff.

[azure mauve]

no shot

[fiery fog]

how to force blizzard to buff your class

[stuck tulip]

charrend i wasn't even talking to you but bro took the chance to flex, good on u

[slow fox]

Hey guys I’m a fotm reroller will these buffs make rogue fotm

[jaunty heath]

i wonder if @vale pine already calculated how much % the buff is

xdd

[fiery fog]

id say about 3%

[lusty acorn]

One more tuning in 30 march

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[hollow spear]

8%

[slow fox]

Sweet

[jaunty heath]

colo thin ice after today

[rugged condor]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

let the dave eat banhammer for him

[hushed roost]

imagine being fotm reroller and picking rogue

[hollow spear]

Me? I was hella innocent

[hushed roost]

my culture is not yoru costume

[shrewd lantern]

if you want to fotm just play mage

its s tier every season

[hollow spear]

I blocked the guy in time to stop myself from instigating him further

[keen dome]

The flavour of the month is always Subtlety rogue for me. It's like mint chocolate chip.

You can't go wrong

[shrewd lantern]

i dont know why they have to write

ability and melee damage

just write all damage

????

[sacred reef]

bros are we poggin out or cryin in the club

[keen dome]

Well it isn't poison damage!!!!

[fading saffron]

we poggin

[hollow spear]

We're pogging in the club

I have to send a defamation lawsuit to sappucino first though, slandering me

[west tide]

just crunched the numbers boys..we are buffed 3%

[hushed roost]

LFG!

[jaunty heath]

leave me out, i still did not figure out how to replace rep trinket

[shrewd lantern]

you unequip it

[unreal musk]

Tuning happening before everyone has 4p is funny

[hollow spear]

I need the Guido trinket

[fading saffron]

usually swapping it for another trinket helps

[keen dome]

You can pick up a big guidon flag before the first boss and pretend you have the actual trinket

[hollow spear]

Does that give me big haste?

[keen dome]

no but it looks funny

and then you can claim a sqaure on tic tac toe

[fading saffron]

real question tho, once we get guido, do we macro it, or have it separate since it takes time for the dance aura to populate?

[keen dome]

I just have it seperate but I imagine you can macro it to blades

[hollow spear]

That reminds me to queue my tank into your heroic to int your raid

[keen dome]

that'd be funny

[hollow spear]

I've heard you had some... experiences

[keen dome]

Some very strange tanks on Imperator who kept wiping us on low%, including a 1% wipe 'cos they stuck him on a claimed zone and just.. didn't move him just before and during enrage.

[fiery fog]

you NEED to use it before

[hollow spear]

I swear some tanks get a kick out of stuff like that

[fiery fog]

because it takes like 0.2 seconds to update

[keen dome]

My favourite is still the guardian I had on Dreamrift who couldn't get aggro during the add part, kept having people die because he couldn't get aggro, and then complained he didn't have tools to get aggro on multiple adds.

As a guardian druid.

[exotic steeple]

3% aura W

we take those

[fading saffron]

i thought so - wasnt sure if it worked with sequencing and queuing in the game, so its just a pop before

[hollow spear]

Despite Charrend's best efforts

[prime beacon]

what is the effective result of this? Like, why do we do this (genuine question, not trolling)

[hollow spear]

Damage

[fiery fog]

bigger number good

[keen dome]

It's a way to optimize more damage outta the fight, which is true of most DPS optimizations / minmaxing / tricks.

[weak glade]

I have it just macroed into the shadow blades should i not be

[faint hemlock]

!SHEET

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

I sandbagged very hard this week dw

[prime beacon]

i guess what im asking is how, what's the mechanic at play here?

[keen dome]

I'm not sure on the acutal % gain though for doing it.

[plush roost]

I was dead from overtime work so i can take off next week

[fading saffron]

from my understanding, no? but ill let the big brains figure it out

[weak glade]

ima just do a test where i do it before and one where i dont macro it

fuck it

[tribal vortex]

it's ok to have macro with SB and after 0.2 -0.25 sec press st SD macro

[fiery fog]

its ~1% for trickster and ~3% for DS i think

[hollow spear]

I have to pray to the wfh gods that ppl leave me alone on Wednesday

[hard trellis]

lmao the buffs

blizzard so clueless

[fading saffron]

so just separate SB -> dance/sectec macro? and it should be fine?

[tribal vortex]

yeah

[fading saffron]

[jovial ginkgo]

Can anyone tell me if the recent class tuning was a buff and if so how much

[mortal trail]

yeah i have haste trinket + sb and sd + sectec and it works fine

[fiery fog]

you can have a macro for blades+dance+sectec
you just need to press the trinket on its own before

[vocal rock]

What are the chances all 3 specs of a pure dps class end up under tuned… seems a little fishy

[west tide]

outlaw players be like how much percent is 3%

[hollow spear]

Too many 4p deniers here

[fading saffron]

so you can either have a macro with trink+blades or sep trinket -> blaes+dance+sectec ?

[tribal vortex]

Yeah but you don't need a macro with everything just have the SB with trinkets pots etc and SD st one

[west tide]

i think sep trink is cleaner

cause casting the rest together more important

[fading saffron]

sounds like it comes down to preference for the most part? but yeah, id agree

[gilded thistle]

i feel like 3% isn't enough

i want MORE

it shuda been 10%, maybe 20

that would be fair

[fiery fog]

i want 300% buff

[exotic steeple]

better than being left out

[wraith dawn]

I haven’t watched anything but reading the FAQ oh boy does it seem hard

[hot seal]

I got my 4 set yays

Feels so OP

[gilded thistle]

wtf week1 4set

gtfo

spoonfed

[hot seal]

i got 2 from raid

we did a split and we had 2 leather dps

[jaunty heath]

same

we even splitted LFR 😄

[exotic steeple]

havent even seen a single token to roll on for leather

[hot seal]

I also have heroic guidon

Kek

[jaunty heath]

mods ban this guy

[hollow spear]

Didn't see guidon yet

[hot seal]

No skill tho

So it compensates

[prime beacon]

how do you have two leather dps when Devourer is so popular?

[fading saffron]

computer, take this guys guidon

[prime beacon]

I have 4 devour alone in my raid

[sudden quarry]

sunday fourth split is the all loot into me split 😄

[hot seal]

Well we are a guild, and we have 2 dps DHs

1 in each split

[jovial ginkgo]

I wish they reverted bp nerf instead

[hot seal]

and monk is our tank, druid is our healer

[gilded thistle]

this

[hot seal]

so leather isnt crowded for us

[gilded thistle]

pls

its crazy doing half the damage of marksman on vanguard

[hot seal]

Vanguard

seems liek a outlaw or bench angle

[gilded thistle]

top 100 is a mix of all 3

seems like nobody's sure yet lol

[west tide]

no splits 4 set life is good

[sudden quarry]

tank and healer loot lol

[hollow spear]

Who the heck did you bribe

[fiery fog]

we only dropped a leg token for leather

so they gave it to dh

[west tide]

nobody bro

[keen dome]

The only splits I'll do is when I split outta a bad pug

[radiant swift]

the trinket Vessel of tortured soul sims pretty high - is it bait with how it is played or is it actualy that strong?

[west tide]

bars

i got 1 piece normal 1 piece heroic and 1600

[sleek socket]

how do you know when AA is up?

[fiery fog]

its really good if you actually collect the souls

[west tide]

blizzard has the black bars on the sides of ur character

[radiant swift]

is it cancerous to play?

[west tide]

if u have spell opacity off u wont see it

[vale osprey]

Big black bars or you track the buff

[radiant swift]

or is it worth it

[fiery fog]

no but you probably wont see them in a raid setting lmao

[sleek socket]

and thats the only time i use secret technique?

[west tide]

no my friend

[white verge]

If I have an apex talent proc and supercharger active, should I secret tech or use evis/black powder?

[sleek socket]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[warm marlin]

the only time i got to actually grind crests was after all our raids are done so I've gained 10 ilvl since alleria 👿

sandbag successful

[west tide]

shouldnt it say in lust on that

[warm marlin]

no its just sc now

[vale osprey]

Logic changed since buffs

[west tide]

bruh

[prime beacon]

can you macro CdG and Black Powder to one button?

[sullen hare]

yes

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sleek socket]

why the guide here says to wait for AA then?

[torpid echo]

Would Heart of Wind + Emberwing Feather be a good combo to farm if I don't wanna deal with collecting souls from Vessel of Tortured souls and the cast time of puzzle box or they are not close dps wise?

[west tide]

oh so if no supercharge u dont do it?

[prime beacon]

probably wont work if i spell it Goup de Crace, huh

[west tide]

they made it stricter

[warm marlin]

well you now do it outside of lust with sc

so not really

[sullen hare]

don't worry @warm marlin we're in the lead where it really matters

[warm marlin]

[shrewd lantern]

did the housing quest ever give gilded

idr

[vale osprey]

Delete this

[subtle jay]

heroic crown is pure evil for melee dps, if u get any mechanic proc then 0 dps gaming starts

[sullen hare]

read the settings lol

[wraith dawn]

I was having issues with the CdG and BP macro, the icon will change to CDG when it procs, but it doesn’t start out as Black powder, is there a way to have both icons?

[fiery fog]

doesnt this just mean we are the best noob spec

[vale osprey]

Yeah I did, delete it 😎

[fiery fog]

[sullen hare]

yes it does euro lmao

it means we're the best with OBR 😎

[vale osprey]

We get buffed because blizz looks at week 1 WCL data, then we get 4 set + Guidon, let's see how this turns out

[stuck arrow]

Raid leader spec confirmed.

[keen dome]

That's true

[north garnet]

everyone else gets a 4set too

[vale osprey]

Yeah no one's 4set is anywhere near ours

[north garnet]

hmm

[stuck arrow]

Well enhancement gets a giga busted 4set too I think.

But like. Meh.

[hazy lichen]

are those one button rotation gamers

[weak glade]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[white verge]

If I have an apex talent proc and supercharger active and im inside a dance window, should I secret tech or use evis/black powder?

[small tartan]

simple q, cant seem to make it from guides. are you alwasy sending Shadow blades on CD, and if you get 2 shadow dances in great, if not so be it? or do you sit on SB for a bit to ensure you get two stacks of Shadow dance?

[final granite]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen hare]

it's 10th percentile performance which is just about "corpse with a pulse" performance

[glad cosmos]

You should be holding your dance and sect to ensure you can get two uses of dance within the blades window

[vale osprey]

Other way around, you don't send a dance when you have SB coming up so you can always get 2 dances in it

[vale osprey]

You're always sending sectec on cd with a dance, so not really sure when you'd come across the situation you're describing? Maybe with weirdly high haste numbers and no 4pc?

@white verge that was meant to be a reply to you

[small tartan]

you cant send sech tech twice in shadow blades? im not concerned with sech tech, its weaving the 2 dances in right?

[fading quartz]

Do we use get Ancient Arts before using Secret Technique?

[small tartan]

ahh

[vale osprey]

You can with 4piece and guidon

[small tartan]

its just feels a little clunky knowing when to wait on shadow dance with SB coming to, i.e. how many second you should be sitting on it

mayb that comes with experience, bveen playing assa for like 3 tiers lol

[vale osprey]

Think the guide literally says with ~10 seconds on SB cd or something

But yeah you'll learn the timings

[chilly dagger]

Is it worth upgading nemesis strong boxes by killing the mobs for it?

[small tartan]

ahh couldnt see that, maybe i missed it

[swift zinc]

i got one question guys if i sim and i havve 700 haste i get less damage if i sim with 550 why ?

[vale osprey]

#subtlety-faq message

[hollow raptor]

3%!

though our 4 set is pretty disgusting so maybe its enough

[small tartan]

So it does 🙂

[patent iris]

Quick Q - I use the Light company trinket before SD and then SB?

[steel zinc]

before sd

atleast 1 sec before otherwise it wont apply the haste value

[patent iris]

Yeah thought so

Then I got into SD and SB

[steel zinc]

same goes for lust btw if lust pops dont pop instantly dance

[void ocean]

we still S tier, right

[limpid sage]

What? % haste increases matter for dance now?

[warm marlin]

no it does not

[limpid sage]

Lust does then or just fake news?

[warm marlin]

fake news

[vocal narwhal]

Assassination
All ability and melee damage increased by 4%.
Outlaw
All ability and melee damage increased by 4%.
Subtlety
All ability and melee damage increased by 3%. Does not apply to PvP.

yeey

[radiant swift]

what is guidon?

[tribal blade]

hrm 3%, very conservative

BUT

it's a buff

[patent iris]

Issa trinket that gives haste

[amber surge]

Why does the vessel of tortured souls sim so high, in my sim it gets 12 procs in 3 mins when in actual boss fights i might get 3 procs in 6 minutes lmao

[warm marlin]

you need to pick up the orbs bruv

[patent iris]

You gotta use your eyes - hence why i hate it

[radiant swift]

new one?

[amber surge]

SHEEESH how you gonna see anything in a boss fight lmao, thanks

guessing its a tiny purple orb or somthin?

[patent iris]

Yus from first boss of the raid

[patent iris]

Yes

[fiery fog]

because youre probably not picking up souls

[thin sinew]

i'd defo take conservative over +10 then -7 as that just feels awful

[radiant swift]

diud that sim good for you? it was a 0% for me

or is it not implemented right

[tribal blade]

lol fair enough

[warm marlin]

it is our bis trinket

[tribal blade]

i'm just worried that's them going "rogue tuning done for a while" and then we fall behind again

[radiant swift]

well i had it and gave it away because it didnt sim good

[warm marlin]

idk they seem to be tuning most specs every week

if its still bad itll probably get buffed again

we have 2 more weeks of tuning right? or one

[fiery fog]

2 i think

[plush roost]

2 more weeks for assa agenda

Its already on pace

[patent iris]

https://tenor.com/view/ricolino-scolari-gif-12061360726599077047

[fiery fog]

2 more weeks of +1% aura buff

[radiant swift]

but why does it sim bad?>

[fiery fog]

because of your gear

[warm marlin]

can you go do your business as assa instead

i need you to do the reverse sandbag stuff you did on sub on them

ty

[plush roost]

I did 3 days of splits on 2 hrs of sleep

I sandbagged sub so hard this week

[warm marlin]

wait homies

i was so tired that when wipe got called in p1 alleria prog

i fell asleep in the chair waiting fo rez

and missed 30 minutes

of raid

[plush roost]

LOL

Thats insane uahahaha

[warm marlin]

[jade urchin]

thank you for your service

[tribal blade]

that's very true yeah

so good overall then

[plush roost]

They call me mr ethical

[tribal blade]

oh tragic

[jade urchin]

istg the sim plays opener wrong

but i just cant prove it yet

[plush roost]

Maybe i should have crafted a dagger

[torpid echo]

If I dislike picking up souls from Vessel of Tortured Souls and the cast time of puzzle box, can I use any other combination of trinkets that won't grief me?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[tribal blade]

i'm about to be bullied for pressing BP on fights aren't i

[vale osprey]

Trink that drops from gar'galon

[steel zinc]

yes fake news sorry

I though lust actually did sth

mb

[plush roost]

Probably not

[tribal blade]

imagine if nimble still cleaved evis and strike

[plush roost]

If only...

[swift tinsel]

shrimply not possible

[plush roost]

Wed be insane on paladins if it did

[tribal blade]

yeah we'd be really good

we might actually be the best dps in the raid

unironically

[plush roost]

Nah mm hunter

[thin sinew]

make sure it's an int dagger

[plush roost]

Right there

[tribal blade]

lol true

[swift tinsel]

aren't they getting a double whammy nerf

[plush roost]

No its an st buff

[swift tinsel]

the hydra nerf

plus whatever bugfix

that made it double hit

[jade urchin]

the hydra nerf hurts a lot this tier

not just council

[plush roost]

Banshers was saying theres a hydrs talent that wasnt being played that will be played now and its not nearly as bad as it looks

[warm marlin]

it was great actually

skipped ez p1 prog

nap maxxing

[plush roost]

Nap into 5 supercharged sblades

Insane tech

[warm marlin]

im going through hell on earth btw

[swift tinsel]

isn't like every log running aspect

[warm marlin]

someone end me

[tribal blade]

lol hell yeah

[plush roost]

Imagine if all crit ;_;

[empty hamlet]

get good moment

[warm marlin]

im not about the pvp life

also we were 6-1 in full pve gear and now that we have real gear it's all joever

[plush roost]

Just do what marsh is doing

[swift tinsel]

pvp the most cursed gamespace

[plush roost]

And get elfy to carry

Smile

[verbal kelp]

is it better to have 640 haste or 750 haste? got a choice of rings, and not sure if 750 is too much

[thin sinew]

650-700

😄

[hazy lichen]

is there anyway to track trinkets buffs on cdm

[thin sinew]

I'd say 750 even the choice. so you have a chance to do the CD rotation properly
600-650 is the goal for sims but we aren't computers

[warm marlin]

the buff or the cooldown

[pearl iris]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[still gazelle]

How hard is 1600?

[warm marlin]

i do not pvp at all and started with pve gear and nearly did it in 7 games

sub is kind of op in pvp at the moment which helps

[thin sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/tree-rise-log-boner-hard-gif-4223135988924484893

wash your mouth out with those filthy words

we are just the better players

[limpid sage]

All good, just seen your name on logs so I thought I could be wrong xd

[limpid sage]

Most broken class in bgs btw

[steel zinc]

I am full sandbagging this week xD

[warm marlin]

is it actually

i thought it was mainly arena

[limpid sage]

Doing lords work

[cyan saddle]

Why does sub feel so gross for dragons

[steel zinc]

Have you seen 3 paladins? 😄

[limpid sage]

I mean you can solo control objectives and oneshot anyone contesting

[cyan saddle]

For the record when I say gross I mean it’s literal sense. I only did like 70k

[limpid sage]

Rogue has always been op in bgs

That aren’t about full facecheck wars anyway

[cyan saddle]

Feels like by the time I get a shuriken storm and BP out, all the adds are gone already

[warm marlin]

every time i go to off objective i get doubled up on and we lose main obj

[limpid sage]

Maybe that’s changed with dr changes though

[limpid sage]

Ye legit just camp

[cyan saddle]

So is the trick to save combo points when the puddles come?

Sorry for rambling in the middle of y’all’s convo

[limpid sage]

Solo shuffle prob easier as well btw

At least last time I farmed pvp rating

Dps just los their healers and kill themselves

[dire flame]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GCB4YMRjahct1nPm?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=93

anyone mind looking at this log and just see if theres anywhere I can improve on this fight or anything that stands out that I'm missing?

[warm marlin]

im so deep in the sunk cost fallacy

[cyan saddle]

I’m no expert but… you cast shadow dance 20 times and SecTec 17? Seems off

[warm marlin]

ive been within 10 pts of 1600 3 times now

[sly shore]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[pulsar hemlock]

How much CDR can we expect on the ranger insignia trinket?

[limpid sage]

Ye I mean you’re almost no points away now

[warm marlin]

i just need one win!

[limpid sage]

Are you US or EU

[warm marlin]

nop we just got triple flagged on that one map

not warsong

[limpid sage]

Because if EU I could queue enha with you xd

[silent ruin]

Even peekaboo had trouble getting to 1600 according to a post, who are you

[alpine wraith]

i expect arena to be full of boosters by now

[silent ruin]

It is

[warm marlin]

ye in 3s probably

not bg blitz

[limpid sage]

Ye 2v2/3v3 is degen

[alpine wraith]

that is why im doing blitz but maybe if im beter i could do arena

[warm marlin]

na chud

[limpid sage]

Rip

[silent ruin]

Well I got 1600 pretty ez clap

[alpine wraith]

blaster

[limpid sage]

Hacker

[alpine wraith]

i expect myself to be omegawashed up

last time i even got close to glad was sl

or was it bfa

[silent ruin]

You tell us, how would we know

[limpid sage]

Bfa sub was broken in arena

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

Drestagath trinket burst was disgusting

[summer lynx]

Random question, for the talent selection for Deathstalker single target that fuu posted it doesn't take Secret Tech? Am I reading that right or is that a mistake?

[alpine wraith]

that talent is improv sec tech

sec tech is baseline now

[crystal quiver]

I have a question around the shuriken storm macro.

Do you use this for both trickster and deathstalker when ur at 0 cb entering dance?

[drifting ether]

For guidon how much delay are yous doing before st sd

[sullen spruce]

first time maining rogue im struggling out here chat

[alpine wraith]

only deathstalker

as trickster you want to be full cp

[crystal quiver]

Why is that?

Im just coming back after a xpac off tryna undertsand the complexities

what if ur final button in a dance window for trickster is an evis that isnt supercharged though?

would you build outside of dance and then enter dance?

[alpine wraith]

you can control that

so no reason to kinda explain the finishing at full cp

as for why you want to enter as full cp on trickster is because it does more dmg from more finishers inside dance

as you want to sec tech as soon as possible and get more unseens but also

[ornate patio]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[violet socket]

hello mates, can i get some help with this https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fKjLujHmSjiCFahMjCpee4

my issue is that i am missing around ~350k of in a 5min dummy practice that i am unable to figure out how, obviously i didnt cast it, do you have any suggestions of how not to miss a proc for example or something else?

the sim is the same as the 5 min dummy practice i did, i had 18% haste for the extra gcd during SD

does the sim assign the eviscerate dmg via CdG in in its own dmg breakdown? in details i see only 1 dmg event in Coup, i just realized this:

[alpine wraith]

one is coup the other is apex and last one is the one from shadowed

[sweet heron]

3% aura buff I mean I’ll take it.

[chrome palm]

@violet socket coup de grace shadow clones are counted as eviscerate shadow clones

[onyx trail]

!trink

[chrome palm]

the screenshot is from one cast of coup de grace

[onyx trail]

How do we time the algetha'r box. Like we have 1.5min cd rotation. but its on a 2min cd. Do we just only press it every 2nd burst?

[violet socket]

ah ok so that would mean that the ~300k in details that are "missing" are actually accounted to elsewhere while on the sim they are shown in coup, i guess?

[alpine wraith]

use it as a 3 min yes

[onyx trail]

Thanks

[hazy breach]

Id recommend logging instead, details (nor the default damage meter) does not provide many details

[alpine wraith]

yea just remember live log does not work on dummies

so you do have to do /combatlog before pulling then /combatlog to end

[chrome palm]

there might be other variables of course but yes the sim knows which clones are from coup de grace but the combat log wont, last i checked

[violet socket]

yeah thats why i didnt prefer to check a log and did a practice run on a dummy

[violet socket]

makes sense

anyway thanks guys!

[crystal quiver]

So my question is what about in the scenarios for trickster when ur dance ends and ur at full combopoints

and u dont have secret technique up

would you not dance shuriken storm in that scenario

[restive lynx]

a whole 3% buff coming up https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/class-tuning-incoming-25-march-611994

[hushed roost]

youre late bro we've all decided how we're going to spend our 3%

[alpine wraith]

you dont dance if you dont ahve sec tech unless it is some special situations

[crystal quiver]

blades

[tribal herald]

You only SD twice during Shadow Blades. Outside of SB window, u always SD + ST

[crystal quiver]

yea but during shadowblades

whats the optimal scenario

if ur at full combopoint

[alpine wraith]

ah you dance evis

ideally you apex it inside dance if you dont have it apexed already

that is why i said you can control it

if dance is about to end and you are at full cp you strike

[crystal quiver]

even tho it uses supercharged cb?

[alpine wraith]

to get apex for next

if you dont have sec tech wat do you want to do then?

you can only hold dance if you have 4 set

otherwise blades ends

[crystal quiver]

so with 4 set

[alpine wraith]

yea with 4 set you have 4 secs of leeway

so you kinda dont send second dance until sec tech is 3 secs off cd

or guidon is about to expire

but if you have 700 haste it should be fine

[dire flame]

it's because I missed timed 3 of the double SD during blades so they expired right before Sectec came off cd, and just didn't send the sectec I guess

just trying to get used to it still, i've got it down now though.

[harsh gale]

we BP two+ targets right

[keen geode]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[autumn garnet]

Does anyone know what this means in the Wowhead guide?

[strange chasm]

Really? You want the supercharged sec tech?

[alpine wraith]

only with 4 set

[south moss]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[strange chasm]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I have it and was wondering if we are holding the second dance

For sec tech to clip the end of blades

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message
Not sure exactly what part you are referring to, but here its written in a different way in the FAQ if that helps you

[south moss]

can you macro dance+blades+trinket+sectec all into one?

[hazy breach]

I would not advise it. #subtlety-faq message see last question here

[south moss]

ok got it, what about everything besides trinket?

[hazy breach]

That would work yes, i personally would recommend blades+trinket and then use your regular sectech+dance

But you do you

[south moss]

yeah it depends on the trinket too cuz i have puzzle

thank you tho

[hazy breach]

Well puzzle cant be macroed at all since it has a cast time

Just press it before blades

[south moss]

ya exactly

[clear osprey]

Hi, could someone explain me why we chose to craft belt instead of bracers? ty

[barren wren]

when mythic comes out, do you guys spend gilded crests on crafts first ?

[sleek socket]

if i started to play this week, i cant get another Dawnlight Manaflux?

[barren wren]

or they are mythic crests now, whatever

[strange chasm]

Is there a macro that can do the trickster macro and then if you swap hero talents it will do the deathstalker dance one

[hazy breach]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

you can config diff bars for diff talent set ups

[alpine wraith]

very likely

because this week we cant even get M vault

[exotic steeple]

I wasted 80 hero crests for 272 weapon is my char cooked now?

[alpine wraith]

why would you do that

da fuk

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[exotic steeple]

Im cooked

[rich canopy]

Is it better to hold dance during second blades to fit SecTec or just delay the SecTec by ~10 seconds?

[tribal blade]

@plush roost i miss DF

[hazy breach]

That is certainly an emote

[dire jolt]

Woo, more buffs

I'm still enjoying sub, rogue will probably be my 5th 90, dunno

[sacred jewel]

Is this trinket any good? Couldn't find it on the bloodmallet sim.
Also how do people play with puzzle box during fights is it even worth the cast time

[hazy breach]

Yes its pretty decent. Cast puzzle right before blades

[sacred jewel]

i do have the one above, feather and puzzle

will use the one above to hit haste cap until i can reach it without the trinket

ty!

[rich canopy]

Making sure to always get 2 :ShadowDance:s during :ShadowBlades: by holding :ShadowDance: + :SecretTechnique: if :ShadowBlades: has less than 10 seconds left of its cooldown.
Isn't this wrong? SimC holds Blades instead

[sacred jewel]

and what a bummer that i can't macro feather + shadow dance

[alpine wraith]

when you get sec tech blades is more than 10 secs away

so you send dance+sec tech

[rich canopy]

I don't follow, if you hold SecTec when Blades is <10 seconds away and Blades immediately on cooldown, the next SecTec comes up shortly after Blades ends and you have no dance if you use both in Blades

SimC delays using Blades for 10 seconds after it comes off cooldown

[hazy breach]

Well if youve got the trinket and the tierset you get both sectechs during blades

But also fwiw the sim has cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>=9 as a check

[alpine wraith]

if blades is 13 secs away

is that less than 10

or more

but yea tbh sometimes it can get weird as you know everything depends on gear so what we expect

may not happen to you

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach are we back?

[hazy breach]

[alpine wraith]

now instead of lower to low mid likely mid mid

and well maybe they want us there

[unborn badge]

Is sub looking cooked for M+?

[random mason]

idk if i like a 3dps spec class not having one spec in top 10

but i dont make the game

[chilly kite]

who is ykbandit?

[austere elm]

YOO!
when do you use the 2min trinkets (like feather/box) 2nd time? (after first SB obviusly)

[fiery fog]

you use them as 3 min trinkets

[eager latch]

is gn still bringing rogues to prog

serious question

[split shore]

do u wanna use less haste on ur gear once u get light company guidon?

[full saffron]

Hello are we better than ret paladins yet ?

[split shore]

or still maintain 18%

[austere elm]

so always with SB

[fiery fog]

yes

[plush roost]

Hey guys, luckylee here! Wheres the haste dragon?

And no

Ret stays winning

[austere canopy]

You’re better than Ret in the sense that you’re like seeing a unicorn in pve

Rets are pretty much everywhere

[long cave]

guys am i understanding this correctly, if im capped combo points i still want to SS to get the apex talent to proc and spend that proc on evis?

[short radish]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[short radish]

also if you are in sdance

and also point 3

[sweet heron]

So I have been trying to figure out good key bindings for my rogue that function in pvp and pve. Ive currently got cheap and kidney in scroll up and down and focus on shift scroll up and down. I do not like it. Can I have some idea of how yall have it set up?

[tribal blade]

i found putting any ability on mouse scroll was dangerous because it's really easy to hit it by accident

[sweet heron]

I haven’t had that issue yet. It’s more that my step is a mouse bind with kidney so when I focus step kidney it’s awkward.

[restive dome]

Should i only use secret tech with supercharged CPs in dance? Or using normal 7 cp is fine? scenario being I cast dance while secret tech is 4 secs from cd, i evis twice during that, which consumes all my supercharged cps, now secret tech is up but no supercharged cps (still in dance). Is that enough of a DPS loss at all to even worry about?

[azure thicket]

buffs??

[azure thicket]

shift modifiers are great q,e,r + shift or control

sap macro is alt + q for example

[sweet heron]

Yah I think I have some less useful abilities in prime spots. My stealth is 1. lol

I could switch my sap macro to an alt bind. Ty! Good calls

[azure thicket]

throwing ninja stars at alleria for 4 damage

cause why not

it might be ctrl q for sap actually stealth is on x for me

[west tide]

guys that rp singularity trinket is not account bound

u gotta earn that shit again

level it up

[restive dome]

I guess an alternative way to ask this is: Only cast dance if secret tech is up? And inversely, do not cast secret tech at all outside of dance? (assuming single target / most single target fight). Just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, only hitting 50k dps (over ~6mins) on single target dummy, even though patchwerk sim is saying 69k

[alpine wraith]

you get catch up from stormarion assaults i think

[whole atlas]

Should I craft a dagger now or wait until next week ?

[azure thicket]

save it but you're not losing much crafting a heroic dagger

4 item level upgrades or a bunch of main hand damage

also just get lucky and get a hero track hungering victory to drop forehead

[random mason]

Youre wasting hero crests

Just wait 4 days

[azure thicket]

be the reason your raid/dungeon passed a damage check

[clear wing]

would someone be able to review these for me to let me know what im doing wrong? New to the spec https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/zuljin/leloaf

[vocal pecan]

is there a way to cast sequence puzzle box so you can still put it in a one button macro?

[austere elm]

this simming very good compared to the same ilvl trinkets. actually good or?

[glad bough]

how do i properly use puzzle box? right before going into SD? it feels so awful

[hazy breach]

Right before blades yes

[mint bobcat]

Yea just use it before your SB/SD windows. Your damage outside of shadow dance is straight ass anyways, sitting there for 2 seconds for 700+ mastery is def worth it

[pulsar hemlock]

Is it a gain to force apex on coup?

[lusty acorn]

I can play assa and sub with same stat enchant?

[alpine wraith]

it is not a bad trink

just worse passive than vessel

or axe thrower

[distant sage]

is hard prey spam fastest to capping out champion crests

[warm marlin]

has to be nightmare but ye

tooltip lies

random hunts

[alpine wraith]

if you have nightmare unlocked you can choose it for random yea

delves can be faster depending on how you do them

[zenith hollow]

Is there no raidbots option for vessel of tortured souls uptime this thing is fucking up my sims so bad

[alpine wraith]

why

it is very good

unless you are kinda blind

[zenith hollow]

i dont doubt its good but the sim assumes perfect uptime which isnt true

[dull fractal]

yo yo yo, what weapon are u guys using as an offhand atm? since hungering victory its better at mythic track? currently using a crafted one and a veteran from blinding vale

[zenith hollow]

like it thinks 250 vessel > 269 gaze of the alnseer which I find hard to believe

[alpine wraith]

what perfect uptime it just ramps and stacks unless you mean if there is a lot of downtime you can lose stacks

[swift tinsel]

if you don't match the uptime from the sim then its less good

well, average stacks

and most folks likely aren't going to have 4-5 stacks at all times

maybe in farm

[barren gyro]

How come on wow head, there is only overall BIS and not BIS for just mythic+ and raid?

id really rather not farm m+

[swift tinsel]

can do a droptimizer sim then using the raids

there's a ton of combos that are within margin of error of each other

for raid-only, m+-only, and a mix of both

[paper ether]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[subtle jay]

how

https://klipy.com/gifs/jgmm-monkey-think

where're 20 more

[north schooner]

@swift tinsel rogue is safe

[swift tinsel]

Sweet relief

[north schooner]

what does this mean tho

[azure thicket]

ye its inventory bug

sooo

clear a 9 and a bountiful for 80 next week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi7rjHgsnhg

[amber oak]

so when you play Deathstalker, do you go in (shuriken) dance with 1 deathstalker's mark, or you always try go in with darkest night fully procced? What's more fittijng?

[alpine wraith]

1 mark 0 cp

storm

sec tech

strike evis

[hexed wave]

okay so if i am doing 100k on paladin fight atm next week i will do 103 k right? hmm thats perfect blizzard seeing rogue guys

[alpine wraith]

dont worry just invite 3 mm hunters

so even if our dmg suck

they do the 100k extra

[amber oak]

yeah, I usually enter with 1 mark, but if you enter with already procced, you might get 2 empowered finishers in one dance.

you just need to be lucky

[hexed wave]

i mean i dont know what they thinking but as i said its perfect

atleast we got few changes on 0.5 we can press more rogue potions

[alpine wraith]

you will do lots of laps around silvermoon

[alpine wraith]

yea another one is DN already up full cp

evis strike sec tech etc

[hexed wave]

but there is some weird stuff on patch notes they didint nerf black powder this time feels so weird

[alpine wraith]

sub is quite flexible in the end

[hexed wave]

they should just cut %10 for aoe to since they buff st a bit

[tribal blade]

if mafic says it it's gotta be true

that guy knows more than everyone in this channel combined

[hexed wave]

for this tier no you might be right on every other tier but not this one

why they get you in when devo do the same dmg as you and also cleave while pressing same buttons

and %3 dmg reduce is not important if you are not really raiding in like RWF

so i will be still dooming

[shrewd lantern]

you can play anything whe not in rwf

because its more mechanical than numbers

[alpine wraith]

i meant in rotation

in raid we dog

hey at least it is good on pvp

because you wont see m+

i just pivoted to making my groups since some years

become the classist

[shrewd lantern]

I mean if you choose to pug keys

rather than make friends and complain no invs when not making the group

these are 100% on you

[hexed wave]

next week you can wait to get invite for keys i guess since not all the ppl think "yes rogue is bad so lets get him in"

[shrewd lantern]

You think im gonna pug?

pugs are fucking animals

average pug player would forget to breath if it wasnt automatic

[hexed wave]

sorry but lot of ppl pug solo and enjoying it so lets who are we to say no you cant play solo go get some friends

[grizzled bay]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

fill vault slots get out of this dog content

literal waste of time out of title range

[warm marlin]

2s were easier than bg blitz

some animals out and about

[shrewd lantern]

q shuff

2s is easier if you got a mage that has a brain though

[warm marlin]

just queueing sub mw with a homie

[shrewd lantern]

o

i did a few rm queues

first 5 games ended in under 1min

trinket first kidney afk 30

kill in bomb with full cds

[candid ferry]

hi guys, what is the safe second craft for subtely?

[warm marlin]

bracer imo

[distant sage]

bracer belt boots

[shrewd lantern]

Some guys are into getting kicked in the balls so of course some people like pugging.

[distant sage]

did i miss a chapter where going above 3k io and pugging is criminal

[shrewd lantern]

I mean there's alot of other games i'd rather play than lfg simulator

only to instant brick because some boosted ape uhdk got into a key level that he actually has to ams

[indigo peak]

is it worth using the 80 hero crests to reforge 259 wep into the 270? sorry if its been asked a bunch

[shrewd lantern]

yes make a myth weapon next week

or get the one off vorasius

[distant sage]

ye i had few fdk last season dying to psf second boss soaks, it was a first on a +17 ngl

[strange chasm]

1fuu

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah you cannot trust fotm players since most only are anywhere near the content they're trying to do due to overtuned specs.

and m+ doesnt punish you for bricking

[spiral steeple]

alright so

[shrewd lantern]

so all you need is time not braincells

[distant sage]

but sometimes you hit absolute gamers and you ++ a +16

[spiral steeple]

nullaeus is hitting me for 130k

how are you guys killing him

[shrewd lantern]

you tricks valeera

[spiral steeple]

won't she also die?

[shrewd lantern]

you rez her

[distant sage]

ye the tierlist mentality is wild in wow

[spiral steeple]

oof

[shrewd lantern]

he wont kill you in the rez time

[shrewd lantern]

see at least pvpers who play fotm tank rating

when they lose

[distant sage]

like you can legit run 5 monks in a +14 and time it

just have hands

thats a big just

[wintry heart]

OH wait I didnt realize we had another spark

[lucid jackal]

Guys what do we do

[shrewd lantern]

shut down the discord

[frigid prawn]

What does fotm mean?🤔

[shrewd lantern]

make another banger tweet

[distant sage]

doom like always no?

[spiral steeple]

"he wont kill you in the rez time"

[shrewd lantern]

you see anything below the top 3 is shit

[alpine wraith]

no

[shrewd lantern]

thats how wow works

[alpine wraith]

you use mythic crests

[spiral steeple]

ok bro

maybe 250 ilvl is too low for ??

[shrewd lantern]

you rez her the second she goes down

[tulip silo]

hand in hand

[warm marlin]

click the rez really fast

not joking

[shrewd lantern]

idk i did it at 245

[warm marlin]

you need to be channeling the rez already during his swing timer from killing her

[shrewd lantern]

^

[warm marlin]

if you're too slow you will die to the third auto

and then ideally insta dance to reset threat to her

[shrewd lantern]

flavor of the month

if you're a mage you're flavor of the game though

[finite hedge]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1484624630764273745/drops.png

[tulip silo]

flavor of the decade

[frigid prawn]

Ahh thx so sort of changing class alot for "meta"?

[whole forum]

What should be my second craft guys? I have my main hand so far

[alpine wraith]

most of us killed her at like 244 and no tier so should be doable at 250

think most important part is to save everything for last 25%

[tough lagoon]

is the sim just not accurate if you are running emberwing feather?

[lucid jackal]

Its literally only gotten worse

Its actually so sad

😭

😭

[shrewd lantern]

its not a great trinket

[spiral steeple]

hmm yeah it seems to kind of work

problem is she won't hold the fuck still to click on her

and his hitbox is massive

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw season confirmed

clearly

[tough lagoon]

oh is it not? I thought it was what we used as on use if we dont have the raid one

[shrewd lantern]

i mean its not a bad trinket

[frigid prawn]

Nice setup

[shrewd lantern]

but its also not great

none of the trinkets this season are

[tough lagoon]

@shrewd lantern is two just equip trinkets better or should i keep the on use to use with shadow blades?

[shrewd lantern]

idk you do what sim says

[chrome palm]

we are about creep on druid something mean with our 3%

[tough lagoon]

@shrewd lantern sim says this and also sim and haste is always weird thats why i was confused

[shrewd lantern]

Idk

thats beyond my paygrade

[tough lagoon]

lol okay well thanks for the insight

[shrewd lantern]

just play guidon

[lucid jackal]

[shrewd lantern]

i aint stressing over champ gear

😭

[warped ferry]

Seems everyone’s using 3 dances in between cd uses, delaying cds by like 10-20 seconds, is there any value in doing that as opposed to just using 2 dances instead?

[warm marlin]

you don't understand how crazy im about to go with this extra 3%

we are going to unleash

[shrewd lantern]

He's gonna move from 14th to 13th

[chrome palm]

if they just fix the stupid mark

[gilded ferry]

@lucid jackal do you stream? i wanted to get some rogue povs to understand the positioning

[warm marlin]

my sim went from 62k to 80k today

[shrewd lantern]

wait are you a 4per?

[warm marlin]

yes

[shrewd lantern]

[chrome palm]

link

[shrewd lantern]

i got one

and its prob troll to send more before vault

not probably, it is

[warm marlin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/18AmzQydoTy7cfdQMVLMjV

need to farm 40 more crests to upgrade belt

[tough lagoon]

wtf that gear is insane

[chrome palm]

thats a lotta hero gear

[shrewd lantern]

upgrade your dagger to 262

!

[warm marlin]

no!

[chrome palm]

i am getting ilvlmogged for sure

[shrewd lantern]

im like 255 and i still need to farm like 100 more champ

at least

[alpine wraith]

i got lots of champs from delves and prey

[warm marlin]

now add the 3%

and we're gonna go nuts

[shrewd lantern]

i got a hero belt in raid

then my map gave me one

at least map belt has a hole i guess

[alpine wraith]

actually when i get 4 set i also sim 81k

pog

just need to suffer pvp 1 more day

[chrome palm]

im only 78k

[rugged condor]

75k puzzlebox gaming

[chrome palm]

did u get 4 pc mr zin

im guessing you had to with 75k

[warm marlin]

did you add custom apl

you might sim above me

[rugged condor]

Ye im wearing 2 lfr pieces

My sin sim is nearly 10k lower

Sick gameplay

[shrewd lantern]

do i bother getting the nexus point ring 2set

for st

[lucid jackal]

I will stream mythic if I'm in on mythic

[chrome palm]

oh did you override for the 3%

[warm marlin]

no

[chrome palm]

im 80.5 with latest

instead of weekly

[warm marlin]

i dont know if things got pushed

ok that apl is actually worse

nvm u just gap me

gg

[shrewd lantern]

velf diff

clearly

[chrome palm]

what apl are you using

[warm marlin]

none now

[chrome palm]

its the trinket

probably

i got that goofy troll trinket

[warm marlin]

vessel?

[chrome palm]

yeah

that thing is big

[warm marlin]

oh yes

you also have 263 mh

[chrome palm]

my ilvl is kinda low though im only 257

[warm marlin]

i havent played vessel to really know but it seems dubious to do as well as it sims

[chrome palm]

yeah im sure theres a loss but if its that far ahead

it seems likely that its a gain to play even with some losses

orbs spawn very cloes in melee and last 8s

but they should be the antenna model for sure

[lucid jackal]

Guys I can't find the silver lining on rogue this tier....

I think its genuinely the end times

I'm trying my hardest but it might be a wrap

[spare grove]

Yo if I'm starting to get a second sectech inside sblades, is it better to send that second sectech w/o supercharged points or should I hold for dance? I basically don't get a dance back until right after sblades ends right now so my choice is either 2nd sectech in sblades or empowered sectech outside of blades

[warm marlin]

i think you might have gotten a mind parasite guy

you logged back into outlaw for 5 minutes and now you've adopted the doom

it's terminal

[prime beacon]

can anyone explain ancient arts to me in trickster, and how i want to spend shadowstrike at full cp?

[chrome palm]

in the .5 you can do this on the whole raid and theyre forced to see it

thats an upside to me

[prime beacon]

does that mean I only want to use eviscerate in shadow dance if Ancient Arts is up

[astral axle]

finally others can know the pain of my ibs

[warm marlin]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[warm marlin]

but basically just strike only when you have supercharger up, which usually ends up meaning just one extra time after sectec if you didn't proc ancient arts on the first one

[lucid jackal]

dude I just mean like

[prime beacon]

supercharger is up and im in dance

[lucid jackal]

Genuinely, what does rogue unique this raid

Cuz it doesnt just do "damage"

[prime beacon]

great, thank you,that makes sense

[lucid jackal]

It doesn't do cleave

[warm marlin]

Atrophic

[astral axle]

guy youre the optimist who are we going to turn to now

[lucid jackal]

it literally just has atrophic and below average damage on all bosses, all target counts

[lucid jackal]

I was really hoping for more than a 4% buff man

[astral axle]

same

[warm marlin]

come back to sub and find hope again

[lucid jackal]

I think if any rogue spec is playable its sin so

Idt Ill be playing sub this tier

[prime beacon]

isnt it 3% for sub?

[lucid jackal]

Alleria mythic maybe but who knows what that fight looks like

[astral axle]

but im having fun playing rogue still

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is super fun

I love how it feels rn

But like holy fuck rogue does nothing rn

[chrome palm]

its even worse in m+

[prime beacon]

what I dont get is they seem to be all in on the 3dps spec classes like mage and lock being blasters, but god forbid rogues are

[chrome palm]

rogue is an absolutely useless class for m+

and you lose even more dps

[warm marlin]

yeah id be dooming if I were trying to do m+ on rogue

that shit is bleak

[prime beacon]

im locked into rogue this tier with my guild :\ so I gotta be doing m+ as rogue

shoulda gone Ret

[near herald]

hey is simming kinda fucked for sub? icy veins tells me to go 700 haste ..

[spare grove]

Anyone know?

[warm marlin]

well vault keys will be fine

[astral axle]

#subtlety-faq message

[warm marlin]

burst is good

[astral axle]

sub wants haste to an extent

[chrome palm]

in .5 we get our aoe stop back but theyre making us wait until then

its vantablack bleak for keys as rogue

[warm marlin]

i'll join you in dooming depending on how next week goes

i still have hope

[mossy spruce]

They hotfixed unholy, it's not over yet

[warm marlin]

i also wont be able to do any m+ until our entire raid week is over but I have hope

[near herald]

ty 🙂 does sim calculate that tho xD

what settings are u guys simming?

which guide is the better one icyveins or wowhead?

[torn tide]

man i love getting 3% more melee and ability damage

its not like they took away 15% aoe a few days ago or anything

[warm marlin]

man bg blitz was soul crushing but 2s were actually fun

maybe its a season for some pvp while sub is mega broken

[alpine wraith]

i only did 1 blitz but

maybe i also try 2s

[strange chasm]

cap?

[near herald]

what settings are u guys simming?

[alpine wraith]

silver lining is someone can actually use the daggers that drop

[lucid jackal]

not cap

I think rogue is really weak rn

I feel like no spec does anything

Even in your niche ur not even exceptional

Its a bit of a struggle rn imo

[alpine wraith]

sub was kinda decent at burst cleave now

uh

it is kinda mid even there

was thinking some puzzlebox and guidon gaming trying to game 2 in between dances with puzzle and guidon blades

then the other way around but now it is nahj

[strange chasm]

nah but raid buff man!

[alpine wraith]

think we are out on dragons

[lucid jackal]

Yeah i mean, raid buff

But like man

[alpine wraith]

because can only debuff 1

XD

[lucid jackal]

We are really shit this tier

I am not impressed at all with rogue rn

[strange chasm]

But yeah its crazy Dev DH got 10% ST and better aoe better cleave buff this round

and rogue got 4% 3%

[lucid jackal]

25% hotfix for DK btw

[alpine wraith]

MM too

also has damage raid buff

[strange chasm]

Its pretty doomer but like dont wanna be doomer

but its pretty bleak lmao

I think its going to be a sin tier

[alpine wraith]

OH WAIT

it is only 15y for the empower on dragons

actually

[lucid jackal]

I think sin our outlaw

I think sub is larp

[alpine wraith]

bp gaming and storm

[lucid jackal]

ITs bad at what the raid is asking

[wanton oasis]

Isn’t every tier a sin tier?

[lucid jackal]

But I also think sin is bad

[alpine wraith]

actually we might be in on dragons